On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 17:41:02 +0000, Chris wrote:

> Not quite. He is well known to have quite an extreme diet and having
> non-traditional methods in his training schedule tending to favour
> holistic and alternative therapies.

I suspect that means the guy thinks for himself.
Which all _intelligent_ people are expected to do.

> So his position on the COVID vaccine, or vaccines in general, is not
> that surprising.

He doesn't want other people to force their crap into his body.
What's so hard to figure out about that?

> For an elite athlete at the top of their game every micro-improvement
> they can make matters. Especially psychologically. If Novak suspects the
> vaccine might disturb his finely tuned balance, even erroneously, it'll
> affect his performance.

He stands on principle.
As do I.

Principles are things both you and Steve need to bone up on, IMHO.

On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 17:50:34 +0000, Chris wrote:

> Ironically none of which is evidence-based. Unless you call your asking
> random people questions counts as evidence. It doesn't BTW.

My stance has always been people should be allowed to make their own choices
of which drugs to have injected into their bodies (yes, even FDA approved
drugs), where you belittle people who don't make the same choice you do.

Why do you deprecate choice?

>> In the USA, we lost hundreds of thousands of lives, for our freedom.
>
> You guys are no way unique or special, so stop acting like it.

Actually, we are rather special, in terms of freedom anyway.
(Lumped in with the Australians, Canadians, and Brits, of course.)

Europe would be under the yoke of Fascism if it wasn't for the USA.
And Asia would all one big "Greater East Asia Co-prosperity Sphere".

Offhand I don't know what country you are from, but if it's not one of the
ones mentioned above (who _are_ special), then you're not all that special
in terms of fighting for freedom (kudos to you if you are, though).

> Western Europe lost *millions* of lives fighting for freedom.

Most of Western Europe surrendered ignominiously in less time than it took
me to paint my house last month, Chris. Some surrendered in less time than
it took me to digest my breakfast, Chris. That's _not_ "fighting for
freedom".

The only ones who "fought for freedom" as a country as a whole, were the
British under Churchill (for most of the war anyway).

Note though that I'm well aware of resistance groups, who did pay dearly for
their freedom which was eventually won at the hands of the Americans,
British, Canadians, and Australians. [The Russians were there, but don't
even get me started on them based on the fact Molotov signed friendship
treaties with every co-belligerent of the Allies, whereas _none_ of the
other Allies other than Russia would ever stoop so low as to do that).

> Your "freedom" is no better than mine.

Depends on what country you live in I suppose.

In my country, for example, every person is allowed to own a firearm, which
is a freedom that is enshrined in the Constitution of our country.

You may or may not have that freedom, for example (of just one freedom).

> Vaccines do not infringe your freedoms or rights.

Nobody said they did.
The fact you _think_ someone said that means you're not comprehending.

> They, in fact, do the opposite.

WTF?
HINT: I know where you're going, but it's just asinine to go there.
> Like I asked before remind me where was the Battle of Vaccine Freedoms
> was fought?

Freedom of speech. Freedom of assembly. Freedom to choose your profession.

Lot's of freedoms exist that are impinged when you _force_ people to inject
drugs (even recently FDA-approved drugs) into their bodies if they don't
want those drugs in their bodies.
>> The wacko Democrats, like Steve, want to throw all of that blood away.
>
> You complain about politics yet constantly bring up politics. Why?

Steve brought up Trump (many times), not me.
"joe" brought up the Governor of Florida, not me.

Ask them why.
--
BTW, if you don't understand that Steve's entire argument is politics, then
you don't understand a single word that Steve has uttered in this thread.

On 2/15/22 5:30 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Feb 2022 19:47:37 GMT, David Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> In message <sufhmk$1cvt$1@gioia.aioe.org>
>> Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 22:47:55 GMT, David Higton wrote:
>>>
>>>> Nor do I see much evidence that you think logically.
>>>
>>> And yet it's _you_ who hasn't provided even a _single_ cite for your
>>> claims. Not me. You.
>>>
>>> BTW, I get it that you're likely just "Steve" pretending to be David
>>> Higton. (Same as "joe" which allows Steve to then _respond_ to his own
>>> posts.)
>>>
>>> But it doesn't matter since the fact remains as I have stated it logically:
>>> *Not once in this thread have you (aka David Higton) provided a cite*
>>>
>>> Not even once. Everything you've claimed, so far, is pure bullshit.
>>>
>>> And that is proven by the fact I asked you for cites, & you never gave any.
>>> Because it's _you_ who can't back up your outlandish claims.
>>>
>>> You demonize anyone who disagrees with your purely imaginary belief
>>> systems. You _hate_ me because you have no adult response to the facts I
>>> provided.
>>>
>>> In fact, you _hate_ me because I _do_ think logically. You base your entire
>>> belief system on fear and fear alone.
>>>
>>> And you _hate_ that you can't _control_ people like me, Steve, on pure
>>> fear.
>>
>> My "belief system" is called Science.
>>
>> I utterly fail to understand why you say "You base your entire belief
>> system on fear and fear alone." There is no truth in what you say, of
>> course.
>
>
> Because he's a troll. Please don't reply to trolls. Killfile them.

Some folks just have to argue, even though they know they will not
change minds. The thing I'm surprised about is that this topic is not
relevant to newsgroups purpose, but has gone on and one despite that fact.

YK

On 2/16/2022 12:10 PM, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> "joe" brought up the Governor of Florida, not me.
>
> Ask them why.

Well, if that is all you got out of the link, then you didn't read more
than the title, or your reading comprehension is terrible.

A while back someone made a statement and you wanted a supporting
link/reference. The link I provided supports that earlier statement. So,
this is just the reference you asked for.

Additionally, the link is more about the choice of being vaccinated.

On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 12:24:08 -0600, joe wrote:

> Well, if that is all you got out of the link, then you didn't read more
> than the title, or your reading comprehension is terrible.

I asked you for at least _one_ scientific link that supports your view.
It took you _multiple_ request, and you _finally_ found the best you could.

What was it?
The Governor of Florida.

Who gives a shit what the Governor of Florida says "joe"?
HINT: Apparently you do.

But intelligent people don't look to him for scientific facts.
If _that_ is your _best_ link to a _scientific_ article, you prove my point.
> A while back someone made a statement and you wanted a supporting
> link/reference. The link I provided supports that earlier statement. So,
> this is just the reference you asked for.
If _that_ is your _best_ link to a scientific article, you proved my point.

> Additionally, the link is more about the choice of being vaccinated.

You prove me right every single time you post, and you don't realize it.
*The most ignorant people are the ones who want to force you to get shot*
--
These morons have turned a scientific discusion into sleazy politics.

On Tue, 15 Feb 2022 13:58:50 -0800, sms wrote:

> The whole alt-right movement is based on mindlessly and endlessly
> chanting slogans and spreading fake information.

Was that slogan of yours Steve just another of your sleazy political lies?
*My Body*... *My Choice*...

Why do you deprecate anyone who thinks for themselves, Steve.
Why must you force everyone to toe _your party line_ in how _they_ think?

Besides, wasn't it you, who mindlessly and endlessly chanted your slogan:
*My Body*... *My Choice*...
*My Body*... *My Choice*...
*My Body*... *My Choice*...
*My Body*... *My Choice*...
*My Body*... *My Choice*...
*My Body*... *My Choice*...
*My Body*... *My Choice*... My Body My Choice
*My Body*... *My Choice*...
*My Body*... *My Choice*...
*My Body*... *My Choice*...
*My Body*... *My Choice*...
*My Body*... *My Choice*...
*My Body*... *My Choice*...
You lied to us for _years_ about the FCC coverage maps, Steve.
And you didn't tell us you were _paid_ by Verizon to shill them.

Was that slogan of yours Steve just another of your sleazy political lies?

On Tue, 15 Feb 2022 16:49:06 -0500, nospam wrote:

> his style is unmistakable and is usually obvious in the first post or
> two.

To nospam's point, if you exclaim that you're an utter genius for figuring
out what shouldn't take anyone with more than a synapse in his brain
more than a few seconds to figure out, then you're an utter moron.

Alan Baker, Joeorg Lorenz, Ken Blake et. al., have all claimed they are
fantastic geniuses for figuring out what was never hidden in the least.

It took a thousand posts with screenshots like this, for them to get it.
<https://i.postimg.cc/YC1B906F/tmopromo01.jpg> A32-5G & iPhone 12 contract
<https://i.postimg.cc/Xq5SpS4D/tmopromo02.jpg> $15 iPhone, $0 Android phone
<https://i.postimg.cc/L6dFGXVd/tmopromo03.jpg> $100 for six lines + $16 tax
<https://i.postimg.cc/nhpbcP50/tmopromo04.jpg> $100 for six lines + $16 tax
<https://i.postimg.cc/zf9w1tGZ/speedtest07.jpg> *255Mbps* 5G speeds at home

Bear in mind Chris is the only one who comprehends the difference between
the wrapping paper and the gift that is presented of value in the body.

I'm not hiding from you; I'm hiding from _them_ (aggregators)
--
And we all know the aggregators exist since they abound.

On Tue, 15 Feb 2022 08:02:30 -0800, sms wrote:

> the number of infections is vastly undercounted since so many
> cases among vaccinated individuals are so minor that they never get a
> PCR test, they either don't test at all or use a home test kit and don't
> report a positive result

Adult observation... [Steve doesn't realize what he consistently does.]
*To people like Steve, this is all sleazy politics; not medical science*

FACT:
Steve claims an undercount in the USA (let's stick to the USA good data).
Steve attributes the undercount to people who chose to get the shot.

ASSESSMENT:
I agree with Steve's assessment of the undercount (even with USA good data).
I agree with Steve's assessment the shot contributes to that undercount.

But does anyone else notice what Steve completely missed?
I do.

It's big.
Very big.

And Steve isn't even aware of it.
*That alone proves my point how much of a political animal Steve is.*
--
To people like Steve, this is all sleazy politics; not medical science.

On 2/16/2022 10:12 AM, YK wrote:

<snip>

> Some folks just have to argue, even though they know they will not
> change minds. The thing I'm surprised about is that this topic is not
> relevant to newsgroups purpose, but has gone on and one despite that fact.

I thought that it was relevant since it was about carriers that sell
both Android and iOS devices. I didn't expect anyone to followup on the
post and I certainly did not expect that it would end up as it did, with
a bunch of smart people trying to educate one individual that,
unfortunately, had descended into the world of anti-vax conspiracies and
propaganda.

This is one good account of someone that was able to recover from their
false belief system:
<https://www.statnews.com/2021/08/29/former-anti-vaxxer-now-nudge-people-to-get-covid-19-vaccine/>.
Hopefully "Andy/Arlen/Harry" will decided to follow this path.

On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 14:05:22 -0800, sms wrote:

> I thought that it was relevant since it was about carriers that sell
> both Android and iOS devices.

You posted it in glee because you _love_ to control people using force.

> I didn't expect anyone to followup on the post and I certainly did not
> expect that it would end up as it did

What you did was giggle with glee that people are losing their jobs.

> with a bunch of smart people trying to educate one individual

*That one individual happens to have a _degree_ in this stuff, Steve.*
(That is what you didn't expect!)
You didn't expect someone who doesn't fall prey to your emotional fear
mongering.

> that, unfortunately, had descended into the world of anti-vax conspiracies

And yet, I never once said _anything_ of what people _should_ do, Steve.
You simply fabricated that strawman out of absolutely nothing.

It's how your strange mind works Steve when you're confronted with facts.
You have no idea you are a far-left wacko, Steve.

> and propaganda.

You constantly posted the Trump & Florida Gov. propaganda. Not me.
I posted only CDC facts which you call "propaganda" Steve.

That's how your strange mind works.
You have no idea you are a far-left wacko, Steve.

> This is one good account of someone that was able to recover from their
> false belief system:
> <https://www.statnews.com/2021/08/29/former-anti-vaxxer-now-nudge-people-to-get-covid-19-vaccine/>.

More emotional fear mongering propaganda from you Steve.
Never facts.

You can't scare intelligent well-educated people with the facts.
You have no idea you are a far-left wacko, Steve.

> Hopefully "Andy/Arlen/Harry" will decided to follow this path.

And yet, I said _many_ times I decided to get the shots, and the booster.
30 micrograms + 30 micrograms + 30 micrograms

My Body. My Choice.

You want it to be "My Body" "Your Choice", out of pure ignorance.
You have no idea you are a wacko, Steve.

> This is one good account of someone that was able to recover

Since Steve can't control people with logic and facts - he uses only fear.

Notice Steve never uses actual scientific facts.
Like the chance of a kid dying from Covid is about 0.0002%, in fact.

On 2/16/2022 9:50 AM, Chris wrote:

<snip>

> You guys are no way unique or special, so stop acting like it.

Please do not lump everyone in the U.S. together with "you guys."

> Western
> Europe lost *millions* of lives fighting for freedom. Your "freedom" is
> no better than mine. Vaccines do not infringe your freedoms or rights.
> They, in fact, do the opposite.

Russia lost "tens of millions" of lives in WW2, 20-27 million.

Be very careful whenever someone starts waving a flag and shouting about
"freedom." No one has forced anyone to get vaccinated, it's a choice
that people are free to make. If they choose to not get vaccinated they
simply have to be willing to accept the consequences. They might not be
able to go on that cruise, eat in that restaurant that they like, work
at the company they currently work at, or travel to a country that they
want to visit--those are the consequences of not understanding science.

> You complain about politics yet constantly bring up politics. Why?

The whole anti-Covid-19 vaccination movement is purely political. It's
all they have. They cannot win on science, statistics, or logic so they
wave the flag, honk their horns, and shout endlessly about "freedom."
It's sad to see this behavior, but as long as they don't break any laws
there are free to behave like that.

In another few months the alt-right will realize that the vaccination
issue didn't serve them well and they will find another issue with which
they hope to gain traction.

On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 16:56:36 -0800, sms wrote:

> Russia lost "tens of millions" of lives in WW2, 20-27 million.

Steve,

Are you completely ignorant of history also?
Members of my own family died in WWII because of the Russians, Steve.

While the bulk of German military fatalities were against the Russians, are
you aware that out of the 190K (or so) Germans who surrendered at Stalingrad
alone, only 5K ever returned alive to Germany - the rest were murdered.

Are you aware over 22K Polish officers and intelligentsia were summarily
executed by the Russians in the Katyn Forest (Stalin's infamous secret Order
#394, which they pinned on the Germans) when they carved up Poland in
friendship with the Germans, Steve.

Are you aware that Stalin signed a _friendship_ pact (via Molotov &
Ribbentrop) with Germany when they secretly carved up Poland, Steve?

Are you aware that Russia attacked Finland and annexed Estonia, Latvia, and
Lithuania by the same force they're using against the Ukrainians today?

Are you aware that Germany's feared Luftwaffe was _built_ and trained in
Russia before the war (which was forbidden by the Versailles Treaty)?

I don't recall the percentage but the amount of _steel_, _coal_, _iron ore_
(which Sweden also supplied, the bastards), precious metals, airplanes, and
petroleum Russia supplied to Hitler enabled Hitler to attach Western Europe,
Steve.

Are you aware that the West finally declared war over Poland, which, let's
be clear, the Russians carved up _with_ Hitler - which was what we went to
war over.

Are you aware Molotov also signed a friendship treaty with Matsuoka and
Tatekawa of Japan which they kept until the bitter end, while the USA and
the UK and Australia and Canada (and the Dutch a bit in the beginning)
fought the Japanese the entire time the Russians were purposefully feeding
the Japanese our plans to attack and the timing of the bombers.

I suspect you're completely ignorant of _all_ of that, Steve, so "beware" of
claiming the Russians were our "allies" in so much as it's my educated
assessment (and that of others) that without Russia being friends with
_both_ German and Japan, neither would have done what they did.

To put it more bluntly, the _only_ reason the Russians "became" our allies
was _only_ because Germany doublecrossed them (Stalin thought that Hitler
would be logical, where he learned you don't defend against what you think
they will do, but what they can do).

In summary, what you're not apparently aware of is:
a. Russia doublecrossed us every chance they got
b. Russia signed friendship treaties with _every_ enemy of the Allies
c. NONE of the Allies signed _any_ friendship treaties with the enemies

Even more blunt, WWII wouldn't have been what it was without Russia being on
the side of the Germans (until Germany doublecrossed them that is).
> Be very careful whenever someone starts waving a flag and shouting about
> "freedom." No one has forced anyone to get vaccinated, it's a choice
> that people are free to make. If they choose to not get vaccinated they
> simply have to be willing to accept the consequences.

Steve, only a moron would believe you when you put a gun to their head and
then you say it's their choice.

Stop insulting us.
We're not morons.

You advocate force.
I know you inside and out Steve.

I know every move you make.
You're like a kindergarten kid, Steve.

Nothing you've ever said requires any more acumen than that of a child.

> They might not be
> able to go on that cruise, eat in that restaurant that they like, work
> at the company they currently work at, or travel to a country that they
> want to visit--those are the consequences of not understanding science.

Taking away your job is _force_ Steve.
It's insulting to educated people that you pretend that it's not.

> The whole anti-Covid-19 vaccination movement is purely political.

Then why is it only you who want to force people that brings up Trump?
Nobody else does but you wackos who want to force people to lose their
rights.

BTW, I understand _every_ political stance you take, Steve.
Want me to tell you what your stance is on guns, for example?

HINT: It's the same kindergarten approach by force you use for Covid.

> It's
> all they have. They cannot win on science, statistics, or logic so they
> wave the flag, honk their horns, and shout endlessly about "freedom."
> It's sad to see this behavior, but as long as they don't break any laws
> there are free to behave like that.

And yet, it's you who called all facts from the CDC "propaganda", not me.

> In another few months the alt-right will realize that the vaccination
> issue didn't serve them well and they will find another issue with which
> they hope to gain traction.

Notice Steve that you're so wacko to the left that the only way you can
defend against facts is to claim that all logical and sensible people in the
middle must be far right wing.

You have no adult defense to a logical, fact-based sensible argument, Steve.

On Thu, 17 Feb 2022 01:58:43 -0000 (UTC), Andy Burnelli wrote:

> BTW, I understand _every_ political stance you take, Steve.
> Want me to tell you what your stance is on guns, for example?

BTW, this is between Steve and me, where it should be noted (as if you
didn't know) that I'm an enlightened educated liberal who knows _every_
sleazy ploy these so-far-to-the-left-they're-wackos like Steve use.

1. People like Steve _always_ use _force_ to attain their goals.
2. It's not because they like force - it's because they can't use facts
3. They can't use facts because their arguments are based on emotion & fear

That's why, for example, people like Steve always advocate _force_ such as
a. Forcing the gun out of your hand for their fears of being murdered
b. Forcing you to pay new taxes for their fears on drowning cities
c. Forcing drugs into your body for their fears that you'll infect them

Every single political position by people like Steve uses:
a. Fear
b. Emotion
c. Force

It's not that they don't want to use facts.
It's that they can't.

Why not?
*Because _none_ of their arguments are based on facts.*
(Their arguments are _all_ based on fear and emotion alone.)

The _reason_ they use _force_ is because they can't use facts.
Emotion and fear don't work on sensible, logical, and intelligent people.

Force works on everyone.
That's why this thread SUBJECT is all about Steve's glee on using force.
--
Note: Your stance on abortion is, funnily enough, "My Body" "My Choice".

On 2/16/2022 9:41 AM, Chris wrote:

<snip>

> Not quite. He is well known to have quite an extreme diet and having
> non-traditional methods in his training schedule tending to favour
> holistic and alternative therapies.
>
> So his position on the COVID vaccine, or vaccines in general, is not
> that surprising.
>
> For an elite athlete at the top of their game every micro-improvement
> they can make matters. Especially psychologically. If Novak suspects the
> vaccine might disturb his finely tuned balance, even erroneously, it'll
> affect his performance.

It's his freedom of choice whether or not to get vaccinated and compete.

Everyone else competing has been vaccinated. They would have the same
disadvantage of suffering erroneous psychological effects if they were
to suspect that a vaccine, that's been proven to be completely safe,
with minimal side effects that last only a few days (if they occur at
all), would affect their performance.

But it's his choice. No one is forcing him to get vaccinated and he
appears to be willing to accept the consequences.

sms wrote:

> But it's his choice. No one is forcing him to get vaccinated and he
> appears to be willing to accept the consequences.

While you depreciate people who stand on principle, I admire brave people.

On 17/02/2022 17:24, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> sms wrote:
>
>> But it's his choice. No one is forcing him to get vaccinated and he
>> appears to be willing to accept the consequences.
>
> While you depreciate people who stand on principle, I admire brave people.

I'm doing no such thing. They aren't "brave", however.

On 16/02/2022 18:10, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 17:50:34 +0000, Chris wrote:
>
>> Ironically none of which is evidence-based. Unless you call your asking
>> random people questions counts as evidence. It doesn't BTW.
>
> My stance has always been people should be allowed to make their own choices
> of which drugs to have injected into their bodies (yes, even FDA approved
> drugs), where you belittle people who don't make the same choice you do.

Vaccines aren't drugs.

> Why do you deprecate choice?

I do not. I expect people to accept the consequences of their choices,
however. As a society we all have to accept that. It's called the rule
of law.

>>> In the USA, we lost hundreds of thousands of lives, for our freedom.
>>
>> You guys are no way unique or special, so stop acting like it.
>
> Actually, we are rather special, in terms of freedom anyway.
> (Lumped in with the Australians, Canadians, and Brits, of course.)
>
> Europe would be under the yoke of Fascism if it wasn't for the USA.
> And Asia would all one big "Greater East Asia Co-prosperity Sphere".

LOL

> Offhand I don't know what country you are from, but if it's not one of the
> ones mentioned above (who _are_ special), then you're not all that special
> in terms of fighting for freedom (kudos to you if you are, though).

The West, including the US, have a long history of suppressing freedoms
under the guise of "democracy".

>> Western Europe lost *millions* of lives fighting for freedom.
>
> Most of Western Europe surrendered ignominiously in less time than it took
> me to paint my house last month, Chris. Some surrendered in less time than
> it took me to digest my breakfast, Chris. That's _not_ "fighting for
> freedom".

You have literally no clue. Or do you now have a "degree" in European Wars?

> The only ones who "fought for freedom" as a country as a whole, were the
> British under Churchill (for most of the war anyway).

You might want to have a look at WW1.

> Note though that I'm well aware of resistance groups, who did pay dearly for
> their freedom which was eventually won at the hands of the Americans,
> British, Canadians, and Australians. [The Russians were there, but don't
> even get me started on them based on the fact Molotov signed friendship
> treaties with every co-belligerent of the Allies, whereas _none_ of the
> other Allies other than Russia would ever stoop so low as to do that).
>
>> Your "freedom" is no better than mine.
>
> Depends on what country you live in I suppose.

UK

> In my country, for example, every person is allowed to own a firearm, which
> is a freedom that is enshrined in the Constitution of our country.
>
> You may or may not have that freedom, for example (of just one freedom).

After a school massacre we chose to ban all handguns. A very reasonable
decision in modern society.

>> Vaccines do not infringe your freedoms or rights.
>
> Nobody said they did.

Except you on *multiple* occasions.

See here for an example:

> The only time I give a shit is when you're _forcing_ others to be
> like you. *The most ignorant people are those most wanting to take
> away our rights* Given ignorance === fear, you can say that same
> statement yet another way: *The most fear-filled people are those
> most taking away our rights*

> The fact you _think_ someone said that means you're not comprehending.
>
>> They, in fact, do the opposite.
>
> WTF?
> HINT: I know where you're going, but it's just asinine to go there.

No you don't.

>> Like I asked before remind me where was the Battle of Vaccine Freedoms
>> was fought?
>
> Freedom of speech. Freedom of assembly. Freedom to choose your profession.

None of those are battles. I want dates and names.

On 18 Feb 2022 at 8:37:10 AM, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 17/02/2022 17:24, Andy Burnelli wrote:
>> sms wrote:
>>
>>> But it's his choice. No one is forcing him to get vaccinated and he
>>> appears to be willing to accept the consequences.
>>
>> While you depreciate people who stand on principle, I admire brave people.
>
> I'm doing no such thing. They aren't "brave", however.

They are anti vaxxxers who should all rot in hell for endanginering us.
--
Cheers, Rob

On 2/18/2022 1:02 AM, Chris wrote:
> On 16/02/2022 18:10, Andy Burnelli wrote:

<snip>

>> Freedom of speech. Freedom of assembly. Freedom to choose your
>> profession.
>
> None of those are battles. I want dates and names.

The reality is that it's those that refuse to be vaccinated that are
causing the greatest loss of freedom. They are clogging up hospitals
with Covid cases, prolonging the loss of freedom due to extended
lockdowns, causing our children to learn remotely, and destroying
businesses like restaurants and hotel.

How did the U.S. end up with so many Neanderthals who believe whatever
OAN, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Tucker Carlson, and Rand Paul, tell them to
believe? And of course many of them don't even really believe what
they've been programmed to say.

Chris wrote:

> Vaccines aren't drugs.

Did you ever look up a definition of what a drug is from the FDA who is who
must approve the shots before they are legally allowed into your body?

Hint: Post your definition as you refute facts without even a single cite!

>> Why do you deprecate choice?
>
> I do not. I expect people to accept the consequences of their choices,
> however. As a society we all have to accept that. It's called the rule
> of law.

I realize you advocate force to make other people act on ignorance and fear,
but to call ignorance and fear "the rule of law" is what defines you, Chris.

>> Europe would be under the yoke of Fascism if it wasn't for the USA.
>> And Asia would all one big "Greater East Asia Co-prosperity Sphere".
>
> LOL

It's revealing that you iKooks have no _adult_ defense to the facts.

>> Offhand I don't know what country you are from, but if it's not one of the
>> ones mentioned above (who _are_ special), then you're not all that special
>> in terms of fighting for freedom (kudos to you if you are, though).
>
> The West, including the US, have a long history of suppressing freedoms
> under the guise of "democracy".

The West, including the USA, does what is in their own self interest.
However, Steve brought up Russia. Not me.

Russia is well known to have kind of the same facets as you iKooks do.
I can find the quote, but for Russians, their lies are their "normal".

If you want, I can dig up the quote that claimed something like their
diplomats have a normalcy of lies that defies any western standards.

>> Most of Western Europe surrendered ignominiously in less time than it took
>> me to paint my house last month, Chris. Some surrendered in less time than
>> it took me to digest my breakfast, Chris. That's _not_ "fighting for
>> freedom".
>
> You have literally no clue. Or do you now have a "degree" in European Wars?

I've always claimed on this newsgroup, many times, I have a penchant for
history even as I took very few courses in history in my college days.

Do you want to see a photo of my books on history that I read just this
month, Chris? I'll show you _dozens_ of them, Chris.

Yes, dozens of books on history I read myself just this month, Chris.
Test me.

Ask me to show you a photo of my iPads next to _dozens_ of those books.

>> The only ones who "fought for freedom" as a country as a whole, were the
>> British under Churchill (for most of the war anyway).
>
> You might want to have a look at WW1.

You mean "the war to end all wars" Chris?
That war?

HINT: It was an extension of the Prusso-Franko wars of about 1870.
>> Depends on what country you live in I suppose.
>
> UK

If you live in the UK, you _deserve_ my respect, Chris.
Of all Europeans, only the British had any guts as a country.

I admire Churchill and have read his autobiography (of course), and I've
read that of Eisenhower (by his grandson) and of Bradley, et. al.

Ask me what Churchill said in his autobiography about Darlan, for example,
or about Petain, if you want to know what _he_ thought of the French.

>> You may or may not have that freedom, for example (of just one freedom).
>
> After a school massacre we chose to ban all handguns. A very reasonable
> decision in modern society.

Again, I realize you advocate force to make other people act on ignorance
and fear, but to destroy the Constitution will accomplish nothing good.

You don't understand that because you lack education, so it's not your
fault.

>> Nobody said they did.
>
> Except you on *multiple* occasions.

C'mon Chris.
If you can't argue about the facts like an adult, don't just fabricate what
I never said just so that you can claim to have a point when you don't.

I never advocated forcing people to get the shot.
In fact, I advocated for the exact opposite.

My Body My Choice.

> See here for an example:
>
>> The only time I give a shit is when you're _forcing_ others to be
>> like you. *The most ignorant people are those most wanting to take
>> away our rights* Given ignorance === fear, you can say that same
>> statement yet another way: *The most fear-filled people are those
>> most taking away our rights*

I need to be more gentle with you Chris as you iKooks have no education.
Don't you see what I wrote is _not_ advocating for forcing people to get it?

>> HINT: I know where you're going, but it's just asinine to go there.
>
> No you don't.

Ah. How shall I put this gently to you?

You don't realize _every_ response from you is at the kindergarten level.
Just as an adult can predict what kindergarten kids will do, I can predict
what you iKooks will say years in advance.

Your brain doesn't process facts like an _adult_ Chris.
That's just a fact.

I've proven that fact many times for example in this thread alone.
You don't have the _perspective_ of an educated person, Chris.

You don't even realize how huge the genome is in the virus, Chris.
You played kindergarten games around my use of normal science terms.
You couldn't even _find_ a fact I gave you the exact page to, Chris.

You are as easy to predict as a kindergarten child is Chris.
It's not really your fault.

You have no education at all Chris.
None.

I do.
--
All the iKooks have one flaw which is a total lack of any education.

sms wrote:

> The reality is that it's those that refuse to be vaccinated that are
> causing the greatest loss of freedom. They are clogging up hospitals
> with Covid cases, prolonging the loss of freedom due to extended
> lockdowns, causing our children to learn remotely, and destroying
> businesses like restaurants and hotel.

Notice Steve always advocates use of force to control people out of _his_
ignorance and fears (they're not afraid in the least - Steve is afraid).

As I told Chris, I can predict Steve's response _years_ in advance since
Steve owns the thinking process and perspective of a kindergarten child.
a. Steve is afraid
b. But Steve can't convince others to be afraid
c. So - Steve advocates the use of force to MAKE THEM get the shot

HINT: Losing your job, which is the SUBJECT line, is force.
> How did the U.S. end up with so many Neanderthals who believe whatever
> OAN, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Tucker Carlson, and Rand Paul, tell them to
> believe? And of course many of them don't even really believe what
> they've been programmed to say.

Notice that Steve ridicules anyone who use sense, science, and logic.

It's the only defense Steve has to facts (much like with kindergarten kids).

On 2/18/2022 7:52 AM, RJH wrote:
> On 18 Feb 2022 at 8:37:10 AM, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 17/02/2022 17:24, Andy Burnelli wrote:
>>> sms wrote:
>>>
>>>> But it's his choice. No one is forcing him to get vaccinated and he
>>>> appears to be willing to accept the consequences.
>>>
>>> While you depreciate people who stand on principle, I admire brave people.
>>
>> I'm doing no such thing. They aren't "brave", however.
>
> They are anti vaxxxers who should all rot in hell for endanginering us.

No. If they make the choice to not be vaccinated that's fine, but they
should not be endangering the general population as a result of their
choice. The problem is that they are negatively affecting the freedom of
those people that believe in science by not self-isolating until the
pandemic is over.

On 18 Feb 2022 at 6:22:51 PM, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> The problem is that they are negatively affecting the freedom of
> those people that believe in science by not self-isolating until the
> pandemic is over.

Why should the antivaxxxers have all the rights and not the rest of us.
Fuck them.
I say let them all rot in hell for endanginering us.
--
Cheers, Rob

Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> wrote:
> Chris wrote:
>
>> Vaccines aren't drugs.
>
> Did you ever look up a definition of what a drug is from the FDA who is who
> must approve the shots before they are legally allowed into your body?
>
> Hint: Post your definition as you refute facts without even a single cite!

It's literally on the front page: https://www.fda.gov/

See how "Food", "Drugs" and "Vaccines" are listed separately? Vaccines are
a biological, not a drug as their Mode of Action are completely different.

Drugs stop having an effect once they are metabolised and/or excreted.
Vaccines continue working for years after.

>>> Why do you deprecate choice?
>>
>> I do not. I expect people to accept the consequences of their choices,
>> however. As a society we all have to accept that. It's called the rule
>> of law.
>
> I realize you advocate force to make other people act on ignorance and fear,
> but to call ignorance and fear "the rule of law" is what defines you, Chris.

You have a very odd relationship with the law if that's how you see it. It
enables freedoms not revoke them.
> The West, including the USA, does what is in their own self interest.
> However, Steve brought up Russia. Not me.
>
> Russia is well known to have kind of the same facets as you iKooks do.
> I can find the quote, but for Russians, their lies are their "normal".

Who the fuck cares about Russia?! Why bring them up?

> Do you want to see a photo of my books on history that I read just this
> month, Chris? I'll show you _dozens_ of them, Chris.

Oh god, not this again...

>
>>> You may or may not have that freedom, for example (of just one freedom).
>>
>> After a school massacre we chose to ban all handguns. A very reasonable
>> decision in modern society.
>
> Again, I realize you advocate force to make other people act on ignorance
> and fear, but to destroy the Constitution will accomplish nothing good.

The ones living in fear are the gun owners. It's all about "self defence"
apparently. If that isn't ignorance and fear then nothing is.

>>>> Vaccines do not infringe your freedoms or rights.
>>> [ context added back ]
>>> Nobody said they did.
>>
>> Except you on *multiple* occasions.
>
> C'mon Chris.
> If you can't argue about the facts like an adult, don't just fabricate what
> I never said just so that you can claim to have a point when you don't.

I quoted you verbatim. No surprise that you try to deny it. You don't like
being proven wrong. Again.

>> See here for an example:
>>
>>> The only time I give a shit is when you're _forcing_ others to be
>>> like you. *The most ignorant people are those most wanting to take
>>> away our rights* Given ignorance === fear, you can say that same
>>> statement yet another way: *The most fear-filled people are those
>>> most taking away our rights*

On 2022-02-18 3:42 p.m., Chris wrote:
> Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> wrote:
>> Chris wrote:
>>
>>> Vaccines aren't drugs.
>>
>> Did you ever look up a definition of what a drug is from the FDA who is who
>> must approve the shots before they are legally allowed into your body?
>>
>> Hint: Post your definition as you refute facts without even a single cite!
>
> It's literally on the front page: https://www.fda.gov/
>
> See how "Food", "Drugs" and "Vaccines" are listed separately? Vaccines are
> a biological, not a drug as their Mode of Action are completely different.
>
> Drugs stop having an effect once they are metabolised and/or excreted.
> Vaccines continue working for years after.
>
>>>> Why do you deprecate choice?
>>>
>>> I do not. I expect people to accept the consequences of their choices,
>>> however. As a society we all have to accept that. It's called the rule
>>> of law.
>>
>> I realize you advocate force to make other people act on ignorance and fear,
>> but to call ignorance and fear "the rule of law" is what defines you, Chris.
>
> You have a very odd relationship with the law if that's how you see it. It
> enables freedoms not revoke them.
>
>> The West, including the USA, does what is in their own self interest.
>> However, Steve brought up Russia. Not me.
>>
>> Russia is well known to have kind of the same facets as you iKooks do.
>> I can find the quote, but for Russians, their lies are their "normal".
>
> Who the fuck cares about Russia?! Why bring them up?
>
>> Do you want to see a photo of my books on history that I read just this
>> month, Chris? I'll show you _dozens_ of them, Chris.
>
> Oh god, not this again...
>
>>
>>>> You may or may not have that freedom, for example (of just one freedom).
>>>
>>> After a school massacre we chose to ban all handguns. A very reasonable
>>> decision in modern society.
>>
>> Again, I realize you advocate force to make other people act on ignorance
>> and fear, but to destroy the Constitution will accomplish nothing good.
>
> The ones living in fear are the gun owners. It's all about "self defence"
> apparently. If that isn't ignorance and fear then nothing is.
>
>>>>> Vaccines do not infringe your freedoms or rights.
>>>> [ context added back ]
>>>> Nobody said they did.
>>>
>>> Except you on *multiple* occasions.
>>
>> C'mon Chris.
>> If you can't argue about the facts like an adult, don't just fabricate what
>> I never said just so that you can claim to have a point when you don't.
>
> I quoted you verbatim. No surprise that you try to deny it. You don't like
> being proven wrong. Again.

Proving Arlen wrong is why I'm in his killfile.