In article <ssprrb$1opd$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli
<spam@nospam.com> wrote:

> *The purpose of the sdcard is to give you a variety of _choices_*!
>
> For example, you can easily _port_ your phone from one to another.
> Without putting your private data on the Internet, for example.

an sd card is not needed to do that, and it's not the most efficient
method either.

In article <ssps8m$1ur5$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli
<spam@nospam.com> wrote:

> I'm not sure of what _belongs_ on low & high end phones

fortunately, phone manufacturers have a pretty good idea, some more so
than others.

On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 17:07:28 -0500, nospam wrote:

> card slots are rarely used.

The advantage of card slots is the user has infinite free _choice_ which the
marketing teams that sell cloud-based solutions want the user to _pay_ for.

As just _one_ example of choices, if you have a 128GB phone, you can port
_everything_ on that phone, without worries, to your sdcard (en masse).

And then pop that sdcard out of the old phone into the new phone, and port
it back... all without using the cloud solutions they _want_ you to use.

You only know Apple who restricts choice so you can't even comprehend that
the biggest advantage of sdcards is the infinite _choices_ they provide.

On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 17:07:29 -0500, nospam wrote:

> an sd card is not needed to do that, and it's not the most efficient
> method either.

You clearly do not _understand_ sdcards, nospam.

You only know Apple who restricts choice so you can't even comprehend that
*the biggest advantage of sdcards are the infinite _choices_ they provide*.

The main reason Apple restricts that choice is to force you onto the cloud.

On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 22:19:33 -0000 (UTC), Andy Burnelli wrote:

> The main reason Apple restricts that choice is to force you onto the cloud.

Oh wait...

Not only does the lack of sdcards force you onto the iCloud, but Apple is
also desperate to force you into using the iTunes abomination also!

*How to copy files anywhere you want to/from iPhone/iPad over Windows USB*
<https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/qmkDxzo4bN0>

*The whole point of removing the sdcard is to _limit_ your choices*.

On 1/25/2022 3:07 PM, nospam wrote:
> AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:

>> I'm GUESSING that in the not too distant future 90+ percent of
>> phones won't have a headphone jack.

> phones still have a headphone jack, it's just digital, either usb-c
> or lightning, for a higher quality and more reliable connection.

I doubt most folks are going to carry around a dongle with their phones
just to get higher quality audio to their PITA wired earphones. My GUESS
is that they will stop providing dongles in the package (if many haven't
already). My second GUESS (lots of guesses today) is that wireless
earbuds will become (is already?) the standard...

On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 17:07:30 -0500, nospam wrote:

>> I'm not sure of what _belongs_ on low & high end phones
>
> fortunately, phone manufacturers have a pretty good idea, some more so
> than others.

Which is exactly why almost all current Android phones already have
gte 6.5" screens
sdcard slot
headphone jack
FM radio
Huge batteries
USB-C data/charging
Fast charger _in the box!_
gte 64GB/4GB
gte40MP front/back cameras
Fingerprint sensor
Wi-Fi, GPS, BT, NFC, FM, and 5G radios

Don't they?

For you, it's clear Apple removes choices so that you have to buy it back.
It's just as clear that the big Android companies would love to copy Apple.

It has been a while since we last checked, but last we had a thread on it,
when Samsung removed those choices above, it was a disaster for them.

Especially when even Samsung's _lowest_ end phone (which I think I may have)
already has _all_ of that in the list of things to expect on all phones.

Does it not?
<https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_a32_5g-10648.php>

In article <sspstu$8rg$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli
<spam@nospam.com> wrote:

>
> The advantage of card slots is the user has infinite free _choice_ which the
> marketing teams that sell cloud-based solutions want the user to _pay_ for.

that is false.

not all cloud solutions have fees and people can set up their own
private cloud, usually little more than installing some software and
maybe configuring their router.

> As just _one_ example of choices, if you have a 128GB phone, you can port
> _everything_ on that phone, without worries, to your sdcard (en masse).

in this case, an sd card is a horrible choice because that can be done
a lot more efficiently *without* a card or the cloud.

> And then pop that sdcard out of the old phone into the new phone, and port
> it back... all without using the cloud solutions they _want_ you to use.
>
> You only know Apple who restricts choice so you can't even comprehend that
> the biggest advantage of sdcards is the infinite _choices_ they provide.

that is false. with apple, you only need to put the two phones near
each other, confirm the transfer (so that randos can't gain access) and
then the phones will copy stuff from one to the other. this has been
explained to you many times but you ignore it because you want to
troll.

In article <ssptcb$nk2$1@dont-email.me>, AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:

> >> I'm GUESSING that in the not too distant future 90+ percent of
> >> phones won't have a headphone jack.
>
> > phones still have a headphone jack, it's just digital, either usb-c
> > or lightning, for a higher quality and more reliable connection.
>
> I doubt most folks are going to carry around a dongle with their phones
> just to get higher quality audio to their PITA wired earphones.

no dongle required. both lightning and usb-c headphones exist, and when
the transition first began, were included in the box with the phones.

those that do use dongles leave them attached to their headphones.

> My GUESS
> is that they will stop providing dongles in the package (if many haven't
> already).

your guess is correct. phones used to include either or both, but that
has recently changed because most people already have at least one, if
not more.

<https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/pixel-3-includes-usb-c-headphones-dong
le-in-the-box/>
The phones, unveiled at a Google event on Tuesday, come with the
new Google Pixel USB-C earbuds, as well as a USB-C to 3.5mm adapter
for using legacy headphones.

> My second GUESS (lots of guesses today) is that wireless
> earbuds will become (is already?) the standard...

another correct guess. are you sure you're not cheating? :)

bluetooth headphones have outsold similar quality wired headphones for
a while.

On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 17:41:59 -0500, nospam wrote:

>> The advantage of card slots is the user has infinite free _choice_ which the
>> marketing teams that sell cloud-based solutions want the user to _pay_ for.
>
> that is false.

Name just one _choice_ you lose by having an sdcard option, nospam.
*Name just one*

Why do you think Apple consciously made the "courageous" decision to _not_
provide you any _choice_ of sdcard, an aux jack or removable batteries?

The sdcard gives you choice.

Simple proof of concept it to ask you to name just one choice that you lose
by having an sdcard (i.e., you have _more_ choices with sd than without sd).

Name just one _choice_ you lose by having an sdcard option, nospam.
*Name just one*

On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 17:42:00 -0500, nospam wrote:

> bluetooth headphones have outsold similar quality wired headphones for
> a while.

Notice you talk not about /choice/ but about how much _profit_ Apple and
others gain by removing the _choice_ of wired headphones from the equation.

*I agree with you that decontenting is designed to make you buy it back.*

I have a box of wired headphones, nospam, so I don't need to _buy_ anything.
Sure, I could use Bluetooth headphones, if I chose to do so.

But I also have the _choice_ of wired headphones if I want.

The headphone jack on 99% of Android phones is all about _choice_ nospam.
*Choice*

We have _choices_ that those without headphone jacks simply do not have.
--
And in an emergency, we have a _choice_ of FM radio (which you don't have).

On 2022-01-25 2:49 p.m., Andy Burnelli wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 17:41:59 -0500, nospam wrote:
>
>>> The advantage of card slots is the user has infinite free _choice_ which the
>>> marketing teams that sell cloud-based solutions want the user to _pay_ for.
>>
>> that is false.
>
> Name just one _choice_ you lose by having an sdcard option, nospam.
> *Name just one*

The false bit was "pay for".

>
> Why do you think Apple consciously made the "courageous" decision to _not_
> provide you any _choice_ of sdcard, an aux jack or removable batteries?
>
> The sdcard gives you choice.
>
> Simple proof of concept it to ask you to name just one choice that you lose
> by having an sdcard (i.e., you have _more_ choices with sd than without sd).
>
> Name just one _choice_ you lose by having an sdcard option, nospam.
> *Name just one*

In article <sspvbc$1am4$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli
<spam@nospam.com> wrote:

> Notice you talk not about /choice/ but about how much _profit_ Apple and
> others gain by removing the _choice_ of wired headphones from the equation.

they didn't remove any choice. what they did was *add* choices, because
not only do wired headphones continue to work just fine, but digital
headphones can also offer more features that are possible with analog.

On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 19:15:16 -0500, nospam wrote:

>> Notice you talk not about /choice/ but about how much _profit_ Apple and
>> others gain by removing the _choice_ of wired headphones from the equation.
>
> they didn't remove any choice. what they did was *add* choices, because
> not only do wired headphones continue to work just fine, but digital
> headphones can also offer more features that are possible with analog.

Thank God Apple is so "courageous" in continually decontenting iPhones!

sdcard
Apple "courageously" gave you no choice in sdcards, nospam, so for internal
memory you have to choose _only_ what Apple gives you, and for expansion,
you have to choose something _other_ than the missing sdcard.

aux & FM
Apple "courageously" removed the headphone jack (and any chance of the FM
radio ever working in an emergency) where it's nice Apple is so courageous
as to not care if your headphone battery dies or if you can't reach the
Internet in an emergency.

Apple wants you to be _"courageous"_ too... just like Apple is courageous.

Apple wants you to continually _buy_ back stuff Apple purposefully
decontented, which was your point about people being forced to buy back what
Apple oh so very courageously removed.

Thank God Apple courageously removed the fast USB-C charger in the box too.
*Think about the kids*

On 2022-01-25 4:42 p.m., Andy Burnelli wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 19:15:16 -0500, nospam wrote:
>
>>> Notice you talk not about /choice/ but about how much _profit_ Apple and
>>> others gain by removing the _choice_ of wired headphones from the equation.
>>
>> they didn't remove any choice. what they did was *add* choices, because
>> not only do wired headphones continue to work just fine, but digital
>> headphones can also offer more features that are possible with analog.
>
> Thank God Apple is so "courageous" in continually decontenting iPhones!

And Apple thanks people for loving the products they make.

On 1/25/2022 2:25 PM, AJL wrote:
> On 1/25/2022 3:07 PM, nospam wrote:
>> AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
>
>>> I'm GUESSING that in the not too distant future 90+ percent of
>>> phones won't have a headphone jack.
>
>> phones still have a headphone jack, it's just digital, either usb-c
>> or lightning, for a higher quality and more reliable connection.
>
> I doubt most folks are going to carry around a dongle with their phones
> just to get higher quality audio to their PITA wired earphones. My GUESS
> is that they will stop providing dongles in the package (if many haven't
> already). My second GUESS (lots of guesses today) is that wireless
> earbuds will become (is already?) the standard...

nospam is wrong of course™. He's been on this "digital headphone jack"
schtick for a long time, insisting that the Lightning port has
transitioned into a "digital headphone jack" (and presumably the USB-C
port on Android phones also made that magical transition). Well yes, you
can buy earbuds that plug into a Lightning port or USB-C port, and have
the converter from digital to analog audio built in (instead of a
separate dongle), but that doesn't turn a Lighting port into a "digital
headphone jack," not even Apple makes a claim like that!

No more dongles are included. I have a couple of dongles for our
iPhones. Where the dongles come in handy, versus wireless, is for online
meetings if you have to take them on a phone instead of a computer. A
wired headset, even a cheap one, with a boom mike works much better than
any of the wireless earpods.

In my Toastmasters club, we had to tell people to stop using Airpods
(wired or wireless) with their laptops because the audio quality from
the microphone was so poor, as was the noise cancellation. But one
woman, using a wired headset, we were hearing periodic noise when she
spoke and we could not figure out the source. When we told her about it
she said, "oh, that's my cat snoring."

You can buy a Bluetooth stereo headset with a boom mike, but a good one,
with low latency, is expensive <https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08F83TPF8/>
and of course it's one more thing to keep charged. A dongle is less than
$10.

The other issue with wireless earpods is that they fall out and get lost
so easily. On Nextdoor we constantly see posts about lost Airpods that
fell out when someone was out running or walking, see
<https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/5/20851030/new-york-mta-apple-airpods-subway-tracks>.

In article <sss2sv$dct$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> Well yes, you
> can buy earbuds that plug into a Lightning port or USB-C port, and have
> the converter from digital to analog audio built in (instead of a
> separate dongle), but that doesn't turn a Lighting port into a "digital
> headphone jack,"

yes it does make it a digital headphone jack since the path is digital
from the phone to the connected headphones.

> No more dongles are included. I have a couple of dongles for our
> iPhones.

adapters are no longer included because most people already have at
least one. a small number of people do not, but not enough to justify
including an adapter for everyone, most of whom do not need another
that they won't use.

> In my Toastmasters club, we had to tell people to stop using Airpods
> (wired or wireless) with their laptops because the audio quality from
> the microphone was so poor, as was the noise cancellation.

rubbish.

first of all, airpods are only wireless, thus the name *air* pods. the
wired version are called earpods.

second, the quality of either is excellent, which is why airpods and
earpods are very frequently seen during interviews on various news
outlets and podcasts, sometimes even for the hosts. it's not difficult
to identify them.

> But one
> woman, using a wired headset, we were hearing periodic noise when she
> spoke and we could not figure out the source. When we told her about it
> she said, "oh, that's my cat snoring."

that's not the fault of the headphones she's using.

>
> The other issue with wireless earpods is that they fall out and get lost
> so easily.

no they very definitely don't easily fall out.

you've obviously never used them and are just spewing bullshit, as you
normally do.

for airpods pro, which have noise cancelling, there is a tight seal in
the ear to block ambient sounds so that the noise cancellation can
work, which makes it nearly impossible to just fall out.

different sized tips are provided so that each person can choose the
best fit, which may even vary from one ear to the other on the same
person. there are also third party tips available.

another reason that they don't easily fall out is that there is no
cable tugging at the part that sits in the ear or to get caught in
something.

On Wed, 26 Jan 2022 10:11:41 -0800, sms wrote:

> nospam is wrong of course He's been on this "digital headphone jack"
> schtick for a long time, insisting that the Lightning port has
> transitioned into a "digital headphone jack" (and presumably the USB-C
> port on Android phones also made that magical transition).

What nospam is doing is fabricating senseless excuses for why Apple did it.

He is just making inane excuses for why Apple decontents iPhones, slowly but
surely, removing one fundamental piece of hardware in virtually every iPhone
revision, one by one, inexorably so, for one reason and for one reason only.
*Apple "courageously" removes hardware so users are forced to _buy_ it back*

Then for nospam to claim that the headphone jack wasn't removed after all,
it was just replaced with an idiotic additional extra dongle, is ridiculous.

> Well yes, you
> can buy earbuds that plug into a Lightning port or USB-C port, and have
> the converter from digital to analog audio built in (instead of a
> separate dongle), but that doesn't turn a Lighting port into a "digital
> headphone jack," not even Apple makes a claim like that!

The best way to understand nospam is to assume he will brazenly fabricate
any excuse for what Apple does (even excuses Apple themselves won't claim).

If Usenet is a team sport, nospam is the cheerleader for Apple products.
> No more dongles are included. I have a couple of dongles for our
> iPhones. Where the dongles come in handy, versus wireless, is for online
> meetings if you have to take them on a phone instead of a computer. A
> wired headset, even a cheap one, with a boom mike works much better than
> any of the wireless earpods.

It's about choice.
With a headphone jack, you have a _choice_ of the type of headset you want.

> In my Toastmasters club, we had to tell people to stop using Airpods
> (wired or wireless) with their laptops because the audio quality from
> the microphone was so poor, as was the noise cancellation. But one
> woman, using a wired headset, we were hearing periodic noise when she
> spoke and we could not figure out the source. When we told her about it
> she said, "oh, that's my cat snoring."

The fact that a wired headset has multiple huge advantages over wireless is
the reason why over 99% of Android devices have that basic functionality.

> You can buy a Bluetooth stereo headset with a boom mike, but a good one,
> with low latency, is expensive <https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08F83TPF8/>
> and of course it's one more thing to keep charged. A dongle is less than
> $10.

It's about choice.
With a headphone jack, you have a _choice_ of the type of headset you want.

Apple wants to _restrict_ your choices.
> The other issue with wireless earpods is that they fall out and get lost
> so easily. On Nextdoor we constantly see posts about lost Airpods that
> fell out when someone was out running or walking, see
> <https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/5/20851030/new-york-mta-apple-airpods-subway-tracks>.

It's about choice.
With a headphone jack, you have a _choice_ of the type of headset you want.

AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
[...]

> Perhaps for some geeks no. But I'm GUESSING that for 90+ percent of the
> population, 128GB is way more than sufficient. And I'm further GUESSING
> that in the not too distant future 90+ percent of phones won't have
> either a headphone jack or a card slot. Sorry geeks...

Well, then we'll have to stick a SSD drive and a Bluetooth receiver to
the back of our phones, won't we!?

On 1/27/2022 8:22 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
> [...]
>
>> Perhaps for some geeks no. But I'm GUESSING that for 90+ percent of the
>> population, 128GB is way more than sufficient. And I'm further GUESSING
>> that in the not too distant future 90+ percent of phones won't have
>> either a headphone jack or a card slot. Sorry geeks...
>
> Well, then we'll have to stick a SSD drive and a Bluetooth receiver to
> the back of our phones, won't we!?

I put my whole music collection on my phone. 128GB isn't enough. Sure I
could spend a lot of time adding and deleting content to fit into 128GB
but that's not how I choose to spend my time.

However now I see that flagship phones are offering 1TB versions. It's
an expensive way to buy Flash storage, but it works.

If you pay monthly fees for music, audiobooks, ebooks, movies, etc.,
then you can get by with less local storage on the device. I guess that
this would please Apple very much, they'd gladly not take the extra $500
for a 1TB iPhone versus a 128GB iPhone in exchange for recurring
subscription revenue.

On Thu, 27 Jan 2022 08:50:54 -0800, sms wrote:

> However now I see that flagship phones are offering 1TB versions. It's
> an expensive way to buy Flash storage, but it works.

The sdslot gives you _choice_ of where you want to put supplemental data.
*Contrary to what AJL claims - sdcards are _not_ just to augment storage.*
For example, you can't choose to pop put the 128GB of expensive storage that
AJL claims eliminates a need for sdcard slots & pop it into another device.

What these unfathomably ignorant people like AJL don't understand is this:
*sdcard === choice*

On 1/27/2022 9:50 AM, sms wrote:

> I put my whole music collection on my phone. 128GB isn't enough.

I think you'll agree that that most folks don't do that with their
phones and thus can easily live within 128GB, and many (most?) with much
much less storage.

> However now I see that flagship phones are offering 1TB versions.
> It's an expensive way to buy Flash storage, but it works.

It may be the ONLY way in a few years when the slots go away.

> If you pay monthly fees for music, audiobooks, ebooks, movies, etc.,
> then you can get by with less local storage on the device.

I have 4794 songs in 28.6GB in my collection. If I put them all on my
phone I'd still have 100GB left. Your collection must be very large
indeed. Again not what most would need on their phones.

> I guess that this would please Apple very much, they'd gladly not
> take the extra $500 for a 1TB iPhone versus a 128GB iPhone in
> exchange for recurring subscription revenue.

You forgot to add the Apple group...

In article <ssuihf$db4$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> I put my whole music collection on my phone. 128GB isn't enough. Sure I
> could spend a lot of time adding and deleting content to fit into 128GB
> but that's not how I choose to spend my time.

there's no reason to spend any time at all because it can be completely
automated, based on whatever criteria you want, which can be changed at
any time. it's also possible to put your own personal music collection
online to be streamed.

> However now I see that flagship phones are offering 1TB versions. It's
> an expensive way to buy Flash storage, but it works.

people who buy 1tb phones want to use them for 4k/8k video, not to
store music, often for business purposes, where the revenue from
creating videos pays for the phones, which is actually among the least
of the expenses in video production.

> If you pay monthly fees for music, audiobooks, ebooks, movies, etc.,
> then you can get by with less local storage on the device. I guess that
> this would please Apple very much, they'd gladly not take the extra $500
> for a 1TB iPhone versus a 128GB iPhone in exchange for recurring
> subscription revenue.

there is no requirement that streaming be from apple. in fact, most
streaming is *not* from apple. also, $500 today is better than $500 in
monthly installments over 50-100 months (4-8 *years*). your claim holds
no water whatsoever.

the reality is that most people stream audio and video from many
services, including spotify, netflix, amazon, pandora, youtube, apple,
etc., where they have access to just about everything, versus buying
their own music and videos.

<https://www.forbes.com/sites/billrosenblatt/2017/04/17/new-data-shows-t
hat-more-people-want-to-access-music-than-own-it/>
...But more importantly, streaming services are now the majority
source of recorded music revenue, bigger than downloads, CDs
and vinyl combined.

On Thu, 27 Jan 2022 10:38:45 -0700, AJL wrote:

>> I put my whole music collection on my phone. 128GB isn't enough.
>
> I think you'll agree that that most folks don't do that with their
> phones and thus can easily live within 128GB, and many (most?) with much
> much less storage.

Given you now have 128 GB of "stuff" on your phone, if your phone breaks (as
mine did recently as described elsewhere where the port was broken), how do
you transfer all your "stuff" from the old phone to the new phone?

What's the key _choice_ you don't have if you don't have an sdcard slot?

>> However now I see that flagship phones are offering 1TB versions.
>> It's an expensive way to buy Flash storage, but it works.
>
> It may be the ONLY way in a few years when the slots go away.

Almost all phones have the sdslot but assuming AJL's prediction is correct,
the sdslot will only go away when the _choice_ of popping the card out of
one phone and popping it back into the other phone has a complete solution.

>> If you pay monthly fees for music, audiobooks, ebooks, movies, etc.,
>> then you can get by with less local storage on the device.
>
> I have 4794 songs in 28.6GB in my collection. If I put them all on my
> phone I'd still have 100GB left. Your collection must be very large
> indeed. Again not what most would need on their phones.

You're at T-Mobile (like I was) and they hand you a new phone (like they did
for me) and then you have to _populate_ that phone, right then and there.

What choices do you have to do that (which I did) without the sdcard?

>> I guess that this would please Apple very much, they'd gladly not
>> take the extra $500 for a 1TB iPhone versus a 128GB iPhone in
>> exchange for recurring subscription revenue.
>
> You forgot to add the Apple group...

Apple decontents phones so that you have to buy that functionality back.

On Thu, 27 Jan 2022 12:45:51 -0500, nospam wrote:

> the reality is that most people stream audio and video from many
> services, including spotify, netflix, amazon, pandora, youtube, apple,
> etc., where they have access to just about everything, versus buying
> their own music and videos.

Despite nospam's excuses, the sdcard provides a _choice_ for your data.
*Without that sdcard slot, you don't have that choice.*