In article <tqcs0t$14vl$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Bill W <nothing@nowhere.com>
wrote:

> It's cheap storage.

that's because it's much slower than internal memory, especially for
cheap cards. android will even reject it if it's too slow. they also
have shorter lifetime because they're not rated for as many write
cycles.

> It's storage that can expand your system storage.

that only matters if someone fills what they have. if they don't, then
there is no benefit.

> It's storage that can be pulled out and used in your pc.
> It's storage that can be moved from one phone to any other phone.

except when it's adopted, which is the common scenario if a card is
used (which is nowhere near as often as you think).

> It's useful to put photos on so that your main storage isn't filled up.

not really, especially when the photos you want to look at are on a
different card, and if it's adopted, it's part of your main storage.

the cloud is *far* more convenient for the majority of users, without
any of the hassle.

> It's backup storage that can be saved if the phone is broken and unusable.

not really, since backing up to cards is a significant hassle which
means it's unlikely to be done on a regular basis.

also, unless the card is removed and kept in a separate location, it's
not actually a backup. if the device is lost or stolen, so will your
copy and you lose the entire contents of the phone.

> People voted with their dollars which is why three quarters of all current
> Android phone models today are equipped with that sd storage slot option.

you're confusing number of models with actual sales.

the top selling phones don't have card slots.

On Jan 20, 2023, Alan wrote (in article
<news:tqcth2$1q0bd$2@dont-email.me>):

> So you simply assume there is a completely even distribution of Android
> phone sales?

You're the one disputing the gsmarena figures, not me.

You asked me how many I think are sold so I gave you my assumptions using
the numbers in the original post which at least is based on a reliable
source.

They don't make all those Android models without selling most of them.
So most of what is sold on Android has the sd slot.

I can't tell you more than that because it's you who cares. Not me.

If you want to come up with different numbers, then do it.
You tell me what your calculations are & quote the sources of the numbers.

On 2023-01-19 18:21, Bill W wrote:
> On Jan 20, 2023, Alan wrote (in article
> <news:tqctcs$1q0bd$1@dont-email.me>):
>
>>> How can you say that when more than three quarters of all current Android
>>> phone models have that jack which means less than a quarter have lost it?
>>
>> Because percentage of phones available is not the same as percentage of
>> phones purchased.
>
> Fair enough.
> What numbers do you come up with then?
>
> Quote the URL so I can check that you didn't make it up.

I don't have to come up with anything.

iPhones have neither SD cards, nor 3.5mm jacks...

....and they are HUGELY successful.

Apple has the second largest share of iPhone sales by unit.

And that's against dozens of other companies.

So if the SD card and/or 3.5mm jack are the make-or-break features you
claim them to be...

....how do iPhones sell in such numbers?

On 2023-01-19 18:26, Bill W wrote:
> On Jan 20, 2023, Alan wrote (in article
> <news:tqcth2$1q0bd$2@dont-email.me>):
>
>> So you simply assume there is a completely even distribution of Android
>> phone sales?
>
> You're the one disputing the gsmarena figures, not me.
>

Nope.

I'm stating that GSMArena's figures don't tell you what people actually
care about.

On Jan 20, 2023, nospam wrote (in article
<news:190120232123539368%nospam@nospam.invalid>):

> you're confusing number of models with actual sales.

No I'm not. You are. And besides, those were current models being sold.
They sell them. They already removed the models that are not being sold.

If you want to break down all the Android phones sold in the last three
years by model, then do that - but you haven't done that so you don't know
what you are talking about until you do that.

Anyway, what you're saying is stupid because you're saying it's better not
to have the choice than it is to have it, which is just plain stupid.

Besides, do you even have an Android phone that has the slot?
Probably not.

You've never used it so you don't know what you're talking about.

On Jan 20, 2023, Alan wrote (in article
<news:tqcube$1q0bd$5@dont-email.me>):

> I'm stating that GSMArena's figures don't tell you what people actually
> care about.

You're complaining about something you haven't even run the numbers on?
Do your own research.

Show the URLs of the sources where you get your numbers from.
Without those figures you have nothing to base your complaint on.

Until you do that, we're finished.

Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 13:10:28 +1100, Bill W <nothing@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>> On Jan 19, 2023, Alan wrote (in article
>> <news:tqa84g$145pv$1@dont-email.me>):
>>
>>> On 2023-01-18 17:32, Andy Burnelli wrote:
>>>> While 0% of iPhones have modern portable storage capabilities, and
>>>> while 0%
>>>> of the current iPhones have the versatile industry standard 3.5 mm
>>>> jack,
>>>
>>> That's not a modern feature, nor is there any "standard" about what sort
>>> of headphone jack a smartphone should have.
>>
>> why do three quarters of modern Android phones have the jack choice then?
>
> Because FAR more of them are very cheap phones whose buyers don't
> have the money for more expensive wireless wireless earphones.
>
And iphones with lightning can use adapters to utilize standard 3.5 mm
jacks. Solved.

And two scenarios:
1. Earbuds tethered to my phone which I have to carry around with me in my
house or Bluetooth headphones untethered where I can walk around freely
with my phone sitting wherever, even charging.

2. My phone tethered to an auxiliary jack I need to unplug when I go into a
store or Bluetooth with my phone in my pants pocket that will stop when I
go into the store and start where I left off when I start the car upon
leaving. Which is more elegant and less cumbersome.

The precious standard 3.5 mm jack debunked.

On Jan 20, 2023, Alan wrote (in article
<news:tqcua8$1q0bd$4@dont-email.me>):

>> What numbers do you come up with then?
>>
>> Quote the URL so I can check that you didn't make it up.
>
> I don't have to come up with anything.

Then why are you complaining 3/4 of Android phones have the slot or jack?
Until you come up with numbers (and quote your sources) we're finished.

On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 12:06:33 +1100, Bill W <nothing@nowhere.com> wrote:

> On Jan 20, 2023, Alan wrote (in article
> <news:tqcd28$1lp3m$4@dont-email.me>):
>
>> And if any of those things were really that important to large numbers
>> of customers, those customers would vote with their dollars.
>
> They did.

You have no data that says that they did.

> The gsmarena site says most current Android models have both an sdcard
> slot
> and a 3.5mm jack & all but a quarter of current Androids have at least
> one.

Which is a separate matter entirely to the volume that sold.

> How can you flat outright say gsmarena doesn't know fuck about phones?

They don't say anything about the volume of each model sold.

On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 12:30:17 +1100, *Hemidactylus*
<ecphoric@allspamis.invalid> wrote:

> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>> On 2023-01-19 17:06, Bill W wrote:
>>> On Jan 20, 2023, Alan wrote (in article
>>> <news:tqcd28$1lp3m$4@dont-email.me>):
>>>
>>>> And if any of those things were really that important to large numbers
>>>> of customers, those customers would vote with their dollars.
>>>
>>> They did.
>>>
>>> The gsmarena site says most current Android models have both an sdcard
>>> slot
>>> and a 3.5mm jack & all but a quarter of current Androids have at least
>>> one.
>>>
>>> How can you flat outright say gsmarena doesn't know fuck about phones?
>>
>> I know that iPhones sell in HUGE numbers with neither an SD card slot,
>> nor a 3.5mm jack.
>>
> Actually expandable storage for an iphone would be a great idea

Trivially available has been for a long time now.

It would be interesting to know how many actually get purchased.

> but I think
> we all know why that isn’t the ca$e, despite what the resident PR folks
> might say.

Bill W <nothing@nowhere.com> wrote:
> On Jan 20, 2023, Alan wrote (in article
> <news:tqcua8$1q0bd$4@dont-email.me>):
>
>>> What numbers do you come up with then?
>>>
>>> Quote the URL so I can check that you didn't make it up.
>>
>> I don't have to come up with anything.
>
> Then why are you complaining 3/4 of Android phones have the slot or jack?
> Until you come up with numbers (and quote your sources) we're finished.
>
iPhones can use a lightning to standard 3.5 mm jack adapter if needed.
Having two holes when one is sufficient is stupid.

https://www.amazon.com/Apple-Lightning-Headphone-Jack-Adapter/dp/B01LXJFMGF

Solved.

On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 12:48:08 +1100, *Hemidactylus*
<ecphoric@allspamis.invalid> wrote:

> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>> On 2023-01-18 17:32, Andy Burnelli wrote:
>>> While 0% of iPhones have modern portable storage capabilities, and
>>> while 0%
>>> of the current iPhones have the versatile industry standard 3.5 mm
>>> jack,
>>
>> That's not a modern feature, nor is there any "standard" about what sort
>> of headphone jack a smartphone should have.
>>
> One thing I will say besides the precious “standard 3.5 mm jack” going
> the
> way of the non-avian dinosaur is that I didn’t fall for no AirPods hype.
> I
> bought myself a proper set of Bluetooth headphones as the good lord
> intended. Ear buds are stupid.

Not stupid so much as don't work for me. I must have freaky ears,
nothing that goes in the ears stays there long for me, including
what apple used to supply with iphones.

On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 12:50:34 +1100, Bill W <nothing@nowhere.com> wrote:

> On Jan 20, 2023, *Hemidactylus* wrote (in article
> <news:cImcnWOS8N80c1T-nZ2dnZfqnPidnZ2d@giganews.com>):
>
>>>>> And if any of those things were really that important to large
>>>>> numbers
>>>>> of customers, those customers would vote with their dollars.
>>>>
>>>> They did.
>>>>
>>>> The gsmarena site says most current Android models have both an
>>>> sdcard slot
>>>> and a 3.5mm jack & all but a quarter of current Androids have at
>>>> least one.
>>>>
>>>> How can you flat outright say gsmarena doesn't know fuck about phones?
>>>
>>> I know that iPhones sell in HUGE numbers with neither an SD card slot,
>>> nor a 3.5mm jack.
>>>
>> Actually expandable storage for an iphone would be a great idea but I
>> think
>> we all know why that isn't the ca$e, despite what the resident PR folks
>> might say.
>
> The beauty of the storage in an sd card is in all the things that it
> does.
>
> It's cheap storage.
> It's storage that can expand your system storage.
> It's storage that can be pulled out and used in your pc.
> It's storage that can be moved from one phone to any other phone.
> It's useful to put photos on so that your main storage isn't filled up.
> It's backup storage that can be saved if the phone is broken and
> unusable.

Trivially available for iphones if you want to go that route.

> People voted with their dollars which is why three quarters of all
> current
> Android phone models today are equipped with that sd storage slot option.

But only one of the top end models are. Funny that.

On 2023-01-19 18:36, Bill W wrote:
> On Jan 20, 2023, Alan wrote (in article
> <news:tqcube$1q0bd$5@dont-email.me>):
>
>> I'm stating that GSMArena's figures don't tell you what people actually
>> care about.
>
> You're complaining about something you haven't even run the numbers on?
> Do your own research.
>
> Show the URLs of the sources where you get your numbers from.
> Without those figures you have nothing to base your complaint on.
>
> Until you do that, we're finished.

Sorry, but that's not the way it works.

You've advanced an argument: that people care about two features.

For support, you've turned to the number of phones that have that
feature and that fails on its face.

On 2023-01-19 18:43, Bill W wrote:
> On Jan 20, 2023, Alan wrote (in article
> <news:tqcua8$1q0bd$4@dont-email.me>):
>
>>> What numbers do you come up with then?
>>>
>>> Quote the URL so I can check that you didn't make it up.
>>
>> I don't have to come up with anything.
>
> Then why are you complaining 3/4 of Android phones have the slot or jack?
> Until you come up with numbers (and quote your sources) we're finished.

I'm not complaining about.

I'm pointing out that that fact doesn't prove anything about how much
they SELL.

On 1/19/23 7:23 PM, nospam wrote:
>> It's cheap storage.
>
> that's because it's much slower than internal memory

You don't care for photos. And you don't get the choice with iPhones.

>
>> It's storage that can expand your system storage.
>
> that only matters if someone fills what they have.

It works well for photos. And you don't get the choice with iPhones.
>
>> It's storage that can be pulled out and used in your pc.

And you don't get the choice of being able to do that with iPhones.

>> It's storage that can be moved from one phone to any other phone.
>
> except when it's adopted

Almost everyone uses it to save photos. iPhones don't get that choice.

>> It's useful to put photos on so that your main storage isn't filled up.
>
> not really

Yes really. And you don't get that choice when you buy an iPhone.

>
>> It's backup storage that can be saved if the phone is broken and unusable.
>
> not really

Yes really. How can you say you can't save your photos even if the phone
is broken?

What's wrong with you?
Why do you make up totally wrong excuses like this?

> also, unless the card is removed and kept in a separate location

How can you not understand what it means to have a broken phone?

Almost everyone who uses the card in an Android phone is using it to store
the photos, and not as what you call "adopted storage" which has too many
problems so almost nobody uses it that way except the nerds and even they
wouldn't use it that way.

You're only bitching about the almost never used adopted storage because
you don't have the option of putting photos on the sd car in an iPhone.

You're bitching because you can't do it on the iPhone.
--
Jerry Friedman

On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 13:09:35 +1100, Bill W <nothing@nowhere.com> wrote:

> On Jan 20, 2023, Alan wrote (in article
> <news:tqcs3a$1pj3c$2@dont-email.me>):
>
>>> People voted with their dollars which is why three quarters of all
>>> current
>>> Android phone models today are equipped with that sd storage slot
>>> option.
>>
>> And it is clearly not important to a lot of people.
>
> How can you so stupidly dispute the data that comes out of gsmarena?
>
>> What percentage of smartphone purchasers are choosing ones with SD card
>> slots?
>
> What's Android's world wide market share?
>
> Since about three quarters of all current Android models have the slot,
> I'd
> guess that it's three quarters of that percent times the total phones
> sold.

You'd be wrong with that guess. Plenty, including
everyone but one I know with an anddroid phone
with and sd slot doesn't actually use the sd slot at all.

>> What percentage are actually USING those slots?
>
> If I use 85% of all phones sold in the past three years are Android and
> if
> gsmarena is correct that 72% of the models have the sdslot, all I can
> tell
> you using those roundabout numbers is 3/4 of 85% is around 65% of those
> phones if Android models were evenly distributed across those sales.

Bogus assumption given that says nothing about how many
of those phones which have an sd slot actually USE the sd slot.

> If you want to make different assumptions, do so as it's your question.

> This says there's over seven billion smartphones but I don't know how
> many
> of those are within the last three years. If I assume 6 billion of them
> are
> recent, then about five billion (at 85%) are recent Android phones, of
> which about four billion of them came with the sd slot inside the phone.
>
> That's all I can tell you since I never bothered to care about how many.
>
> You should look up the numbers yourself.

Not even possible with how many actually USE the slot.

> Another way to look at that would be for you to look up sd card sales.

Proves nothing because most who buy one have more than one
and they aren't just used in phones.

On 2023-01-19 18:31, Bill W wrote:
> On Jan 20, 2023, nospam wrote (in article
> <news:190120232123539368%nospam@nospam.invalid>):
>
>> you're confusing number of models with actual sales.
>
> No I'm not. You are. And besides, those were current models being sold.
> They sell them. They already removed the models that are not being sold.

Ummmmm...no.

They don't.

That's why there is an explicit CHOICE on their page:

>
> If you want to break down all the Android phones sold in the last three
> years by model, then do that - but you haven't done that so you don't know
> what you are talking about until you do that.
>
> Anyway, what you're saying is stupid because you're saying it's better not
> to have the choice than it is to have it, which is just plain stupid.
>
> Besides, do you even have an Android phone that has the slot?
> Probably not.
>
> You've never used it so you don't know what you're talking about.

'Availability:

Available

Coming soon

Discontinued

Rumored'

Choose "Available" only, and the number of phones drops from more than
10,000 to 3,056.

Sounds like you don't know much about the source you've chosen to rely on.

On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 13:31:58 +1100, Bill W <nothing@nowhere.com> wrote:

> On Jan 20, 2023, nospam wrote (in article
> <news:190120232123539368%nospam@nospam.invalid>):
>
>> you're confusing number of models with actual sales.
>
> No I'm not. You are. And besides, those were current models being sold.
> They sell them. They already removed the models that are not being sold.
>
> If you want to break down all the Android phones sold in the last three
> years by model, then do that - but you haven't done that so you don't
> know
> what you are talking about until you do that.
>
> Anyway, what you're saying is stupid because you're saying it's better
> not
> to have the choice than it is to have it,

You do have the choice to add a 2.5mm jack and sd card to an iphone
if you want one or both.

> which is just plain stupid.

> Besides, do you even have an Android phone that has the slot?
> Probably not.
>
> You've never used it so you don't know what you're talking about.

You don't need to use it to know that it is MUCH less convenient than the
cloud.

On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 13:36:46 +1100, Bill W <nothing@nowhere.com> wrote:

> On Jan 20, 2023, Alan wrote (in article
> <news:tqcube$1q0bd$5@dont-email.me>):
>
>> I'm stating that GSMArena's figures don't tell you what people actually
>> care about.
>
> You're complaining about something you haven't even run the numbers on?
> Do your own research.

Not even possible with sales volume or how many who have
a phone with an sd slot actually use that slot.

> Show the URLs of the sources where you get your numbers from.
> Without those figures you have nothing to base your complaint on.

> Until you do that, we're finished.

You have always been finished.

On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 13:54:18 +1100, Jerry Friedman
<jerry_friedman@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On 1/19/23 7:23 PM, nospam wrote:
>>> It's cheap storage.
>> that's because it's much slower than internal memory
>
> You don't care for photos. And you don't get the choice with iPhones.

Yes you do, there are plenty of adapters for sd cards that
plug into the lighting port. They aren't even expensive.

>>> It's storage that can expand your system storage.

>> that only matters if someone fills what they have.

> It works well for photos.

The cloud works MUCH better and is completely automatic.

> And you don't get the choice with iPhones.

Yes you do, there are plenty of adapters for sd cards that
plug into the lighting port. They aren't even expensive.

>>> It's storage that can be pulled out and used in your pc.

> And you don't get the choice of being able to do that with iPhones.

Yes you do, there are plenty of adapters for sd cards that
plug into the lighting port. They aren't even expensive.

>>> It's storage that can be moved from one phone to any other phone.
>> except when it's adopted

> Almost everyone uses it to save photos.

Plenty use the cloud instead.

> iPhones don't get that choice.

Yes you do, there are plenty of adapters for sd cards that
plug into the lighting port. They aren't even expensive.

>>> It's useful to put photos on so that your main storage isn't filled up.
>> not really

> Yes really.

> And you don't get that choice when you buy an iPhone.

Yes you do, there are plenty of adapters for sd cards that
plug into the lighting port. They aren't even expensive.

>>> It's backup storage that can be saved if the phone is broken and
>>> unusable.
>> not really
>
> Yes really. How can you say you can't save your photos even if the phone
> is broken? What's wrong with you? Why do you make up totally wrong
> excuses like this?

Why do you ?

>> also, unless the card is removed and kept in a separate location

> How can you not understand what it means to have a broken phone?

> Almost everyone who uses the card in an Android phone is using it to
> store
> the photos, and not as what you call "adopted storage" which has too many
> problems so almost nobody uses it that way except the nerds and even they
> wouldn't use it that way.
>
> You're only bitching about the almost never used adopted storage because
> you don't have the option of putting photos on the sd car in an iPhone.
>
> You're bitching because you can't do it on the iPhone.

Pity can do it on the iphone.

On Jan 19, 2023, Alan wrote (in article
<news:tqd00k$1q0bd$8@dont-email.me>):

> Sounds like you don't know much about the source you've chosen to rely on.

For some reason it bothers you a lot that Android owners get the sd option.

You're bitching about Android because Apple didn't give you any options.

Instead of bitching, you should be happy Android owners have options.

On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 14:58:31 +1100, Bill W <nothing@nowhere.com> wrote:

> On Jan 19, 2023, Alan wrote (in article
> <news:tqd00k$1q0bd$8@dont-email.me>):
>
>> Sounds like you don't know much about the source you've chosen to rely
>> on.
>
> For some reason it bothers you a lot that Android owners get the sd
> option.

Nope.

> You're bitching about Android because Apple didn't give you any options.

iPhones do in fact have both options.

> Instead of bitching, you should be happy Android owners have options.

Nope.

On 1/19/2023 5:06 PM, Bill W wrote:
> On Jan 20, 2023, Alan wrote (in article
> <news:tqcd28$1lp3m$4@dont-email.me>):
>
>> And if any of those things were really that important to large numbers
>> of customers, those customers would vote with their dollars.
>
> They did.
>
> The gsmarena site says most current Android models have both an sdcard slot
> and a 3.5mm jack & all but a quarter of current Androids have at least one
Not sure who the original post was from, presumably from someone that I
have filtered out. But the GSMArena website does NOT say that.

I looked at GSM Arena for current models (2022). Here are the results in
a Google Sheet Spreadsheet:
<https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Y8ktiVvsNGyNhQMP9EgBGayZ_dDvO33jFRqw_9uWGcg/>

On 2023-01-19 19:58, Bill W wrote:
> On Jan 19, 2023, Alan wrote (in article
> <news:tqd00k$1q0bd$8@dont-email.me>):
>
>> Sounds like you don't know much about the source you've chosen to rely on.
>
> For some reason it bothers you a lot that Android owners get the sd option.

It doesn't bother me in the slightest.

>
> You're bitching about Android because Apple didn't give you any options.

I'm not bitching at all.

I'm disputing the conclusions you're drawing and showing you apparently
don't have much of a clue about the source you're relying on.

So you're bitching about me bitching...

....when I'm not.

:-)