On 2023-01-21 12:45, Rod Speed wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 07:21:25 +1100, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2023-01-21 12:13, Rod Speed wrote:
>>> On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 06:35:13 +1100, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2023-01-21 11:32, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 05:58:11 +1100, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2023-01-21 06:38, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>>>> On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 12:32:09 -0700, AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 1/20/2023 12:03 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I use Forte Agent 6.0 Can you tell me how to design a filter
>>>>>>>>> properly so that nym-shifting won't help trolls?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Use a mental filter.
>>>>>>>  No.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you dislike a poster just don't open his posts.
>>>>>>>> Easy peasy.
>>>>>>>  Maybe easy peasy for you, but that's not for me. It takes
>>>>>>> considerably
>>>>>>> longer to have to see and bypass posts. I kill-file trolls
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry, but that's complete bullshit.
>>>>>  Not if you use the news client like he does, hits the space bar
>>>>> to step thru the posts he wants to read.
>>>>
>>>> Nope. It's still bullshit.
>>>  Nope.
>>>
>>>> It is the work of less than a moment to hit "Next" if you read the
>>>> name of a sender or see a subject you don't like.
>>>  He doesnt do that, he just hits space to step thru the posts that
>>> don't get kill filed. That's much quicker than reading the poster
>>> name and not clicking on the ones you decide are trolls.
>
>> No, it objectively is not.
>
> We'll see...
>
>> I'm using Thunderbird
>
> Ken isnt.
>
>> and there is a shortcut on the keyboard not more than 1.25" away from
>> the spacebar which allows you to step through a post screen by screen
>> to the bottom before it moves you to the next post:
>
>> "F"
>
> Nothing to do with your previous claim that it is quicker
> to look at the sender and decide to not read that post.
>
>> It's ctrl-N in Forte Agent.
>
>> That is no slower than the space bar.
>
> But having to look at the sender and decide whether to skip that
> post will always take longer than not bothering to read who the
> sender is and just tap on the spacebar. And it takes more effort
> with two finger than just leave you thumb on the space bar.
>
> And with the worst of the trolls like peeler who posts a series of
> trolls in a row almost all the time, even using ctrl-N repeatedly
> for all if its posts is much more effort than having him in the kill
> file and just using the space bar to step between non troll posts.

Dude...

....stop grasping at straws.

On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 07:56:17 +1100, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

> On 2023-01-21 12:45, Rod Speed wrote:
>> On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 07:21:25 +1100, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2023-01-21 12:13, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 06:35:13 +1100, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2023-01-21 11:32, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 05:58:11 +1100, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2023-01-21 06:38, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 12:32:09 -0700, AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 1/20/2023 12:03 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I use Forte Agent 6.0 Can you tell me how to design a filter
>>>>>>>>>> properly so that nym-shifting won't help trolls?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Use a mental filter.
>>>>>>>> No.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you dislike a poster just don't open his posts.
>>>>>>>>> Easy peasy.
>>>>>>>> Maybe easy peasy for you, but that's not for me. It takes
>>>>>>>> considerably
>>>>>>>> longer to have to see and bypass posts. I kill-file trolls
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sorry, but that's complete bullshit.
>>>>>> Not if you use the news client like he does, hits the space bar
>>>>>> to step thru the posts he wants to read.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nope. It's still bullshit.
>>>> Nope.
>>>>
>>>>> It is the work of less than a moment to hit "Next" if you read the
>>>>> name of a sender or see a subject you don't like.
>>>> He doesnt do that, he just hits space to step thru the posts that
>>>> don't get kill filed. That's much quicker than reading the poster
>>>> name and not clicking on the ones you decide are trolls.
>>
>>> No, it objectively is not.
>> We'll see...
>>
>>> I'm using Thunderbird
>> Ken isnt.
>>
>>> and there is a shortcut on the keyboard not more than 1.25" away from
>>> the spacebar which allows you to step through a post screen by screen
>>> to the bottom before it moves you to the next post:
>>
>>> "F"
>> Nothing to do with your previous claim that it is quicker
>> to look at the sender and decide to not read that post.
>>
>>> It's ctrl-N in Forte Agent.
>>
>>> That is no slower than the space bar.
>> But having to look at the sender and decide whether to skip that
>> post will always take longer than not bothering to read who the
>> sender is and just tap on the spacebar. And it takes more effort
>> with two finger than just leave you thumb on the space bar.
>> And with the worst of the trolls like peeler who posts a series of
>> trolls in a row almost all the time, even using ctrl-N repeatedly
>> for all if its posts is much more effort than having him in the kill
>> file and just using the space bar to step between non troll posts.
>
> Dude...
>
> ...stop grasping at straws.

Dud...

,,,you never could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag.

On 2023-01-21 13:05, Rod Speed wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 07:56:17 +1100, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2023-01-21 12:45, Rod Speed wrote:
>>> On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 07:21:25 +1100, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2023-01-21 12:13, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 06:35:13 +1100, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2023-01-21 11:32, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 05:58:11 +1100, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2023-01-21 06:38, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 12:32:09 -0700, AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 1/20/2023 12:03 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I use Forte Agent 6.0 Can you tell me how to design a filter
>>>>>>>>>>> properly so that nym-shifting won't help trolls?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Use a mental filter.
>>>>>>>>>  No.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If you dislike a poster just don't open his posts.
>>>>>>>>>> Easy peasy.
>>>>>>>>>  Maybe easy peasy for you, but that's not for me. It takes
>>>>>>>>> considerably
>>>>>>>>> longer to have to see and bypass posts. I kill-file trolls
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sorry, but that's complete bullshit.
>>>>>>>  Not if you use the news client like he does, hits the space bar
>>>>>>> to step thru the posts he wants to read.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nope. It's still bullshit.
>>>>>  Nope.
>>>>>
>>>>>> It is the work of less than a moment to hit "Next" if you read the
>>>>>> name of a sender or see a subject you don't like.
>>>>>  He doesnt do that, he just hits space to step thru the posts that
>>>>> don't get kill filed. That's much quicker than reading the poster
>>>>> name and not clicking on the ones you decide are trolls.
>>>
>>>> No, it objectively is not.
>>>  We'll see...
>>>
>>>> I'm using Thunderbird
>>>  Ken isnt.
>>>
>>>> and there is a shortcut on the keyboard not more than 1.25" away
>>>> from the spacebar which allows you to step through a post screen by
>>>> screen to the bottom before it moves you to the next post:
>>>
>>>> "F"
>>>  Nothing to do with your previous claim that it is quicker
>>> to look at the sender and decide to not read that post.
>>>
>>>> It's ctrl-N in Forte Agent.
>>>
>>>> That is no slower than the space bar.
>>>  But having to look at the sender and decide whether to skip that
>>> post will always take longer than not bothering to read who the
>>> sender is and just tap on the spacebar. And it takes more effort
>>> with two finger than just leave you thumb on the space bar.
>>>  And with the worst of the trolls like peeler who posts a series of
>>> trolls in a row almost all the time, even using ctrl-N repeatedly
>>> for all if its posts is much more effort than having him in the kill
>>> file and just using the space bar to step between non troll posts.
>>
>> Dude...
>>
>> ...stop grasping at straws.
>
> Dud...
>
> ,,,you never could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag.

Sorry, but it's just not a real burden.

The time it takes to read a name or a subject? Please.

On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 14:55:47 -0500, Wade Garrett wrote:

> ...except that the Android OS sucks, in part due to lack of updating on
> some phone and tablet models I've owned several that weren't and
> switched to Apple products-- the nasty Apple Tax notwithstanding...

Samsung updates all known security vulnerabilities for five years via
Samsung's public advertised written promises you can find on the net.

What's the Apple written promise for how long Apple updates all known
security vulnerabilities and where is that published on the net?

No guessing allowed.
Written promises only.
--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 2023-01-21 13:38, Tim+ wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 14:55:47 -0500, Wade Garrett wrote:
>
>> ...except that the Android OS sucks, in part due to lack of updating on
>> some phone and tablet models I've owned several that weren't and
>> switched to Apple products-- the nasty Apple Tax notwithstanding...
>
> Samsung updates all known security vulnerabilities for five years via
> Samsung's public advertised written promises you can find on the net.

Yet you haven't provided them...

>
> What's the Apple written promise for how long Apple updates all known
> security vulnerabilities and where is that published on the net?
>
> No guessing allowed.
> Written promises only.

....while demanding more of others.

On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 13:41:00 -0800, Alan wrote:

>> Samsung updates all known security vulnerabilities for five years via
>> Samsung's public advertised written promises you can find on the net.
>
> Yet you haven't provided them...

Everyone knows it's five years for the phones that compete with the iPhone.
Except you.

Samsung pledges 4 OS updates, 5 years of patches for 2021/2022 flagships.
https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_pledges_4_os_updates_5_years_of_patches_for_2021_and_2022_flagships-news-53070.php

You shouldn't post because you don't know what you're talking about
if you don't even know this, which everyone knows, except you.

>> What's the Apple written promise for how long Apple updates all known
>> security vulnerabilities and where is that published on the net?
>>
>> No guessing allowed.
>> Written promises only.
>
> ...while demanding more of others.

How long is Apple's written published public promise to update all known
security vulnerabilities for Apple's similar 2021/2022 flagship iPhones?

Show the written reference & don't bother guessing because you'd be wrong.
Everyone knows the answer, except you.

That's why I'm asking you to tell us the answer with a reference.
So that you learn that answer for yourself.
--
Please don't feed the trolls

On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 08:06:44 +1100, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

> On 2023-01-21 13:05, Rod Speed wrote:
>> On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 07:56:17 +1100, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2023-01-21 12:45, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 07:21:25 +1100, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2023-01-21 12:13, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 06:35:13 +1100, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2023-01-21 11:32, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 05:58:11 +1100, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 2023-01-21 06:38, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 12:32:09 -0700, AJL <noemail@none.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/20/2023 12:03 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I use Forte Agent 6.0 Can you tell me how to design a filter
>>>>>>>>>>>> properly so that nym-shifting won't help trolls?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Use a mental filter.
>>>>>>>>>> No.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If you dislike a poster just don't open his posts.
>>>>>>>>>>> Easy peasy.
>>>>>>>>>> Maybe easy peasy for you, but that's not for me. It takes
>>>>>>>>>> considerably
>>>>>>>>>> longer to have to see and bypass posts. I kill-file trolls
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sorry, but that's complete bullshit.
>>>>>>>> Not if you use the news client like he does, hits the space bar
>>>>>>>> to step thru the posts he wants to read.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nope. It's still bullshit.
>>>>>> Nope.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is the work of less than a moment to hit "Next" if you read the
>>>>>>> name of a sender or see a subject you don't like.
>>>>>> He doesnt do that, he just hits space to step thru the posts that
>>>>>> don't get kill filed. That's much quicker than reading the poster
>>>>>> name and not clicking on the ones you decide are trolls.
>>>>
>>>>> No, it objectively is not.
>>>> We'll see...
>>>>
>>>>> I'm using Thunderbird
>>>> Ken isnt.
>>>>
>>>>> and there is a shortcut on the keyboard not more than 1.25" away
>>>>> from the spacebar which allows you to step through a post screen by
>>>>> screen to the bottom before it moves you to the next post:
>>>>
>>>>> "F"
>>>> Nothing to do with your previous claim that it is quicker
>>>> to look at the sender and decide to not read that post.
>>>>
>>>>> It's ctrl-N in Forte Agent.
>>>>
>>>>> That is no slower than the space bar.
>>>> But having to look at the sender and decide whether to skip that
>>>> post will always take longer than not bothering to read who the
>>>> sender is and just tap on the spacebar. And it takes more effort
>>>> with two finger than just leave you thumb on the space bar.
>>>> And with the worst of the trolls like peeler who posts a series of
>>>> trolls in a row almost all the time, even using ctrl-N repeatedly
>>>> for all if its posts is much more effort than having him in the kill
>>>> file and just using the space bar to step between non troll posts.
>>>
>>> Dude...
>>>
>>> ...stop grasping at straws.
>> Dud...
>> ,,,you never could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag.
>
> Sorry, but it's just not a real burden.

We aren't discussing what is a real burden, we are
discussing what he finds more convenient for him.

> The time it takes to read a name or a subject? Please.

That isnt the only time involved, there is also the inconvenience
of changing to the other two key hotkey when you see that one
is a troll and having to use that repeatedly in a row with the
more prolific trolls like peeler or arlen. Much more convenient
to never see their posts at all and to just keep tapping the space
to see the next non troll post.

On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 08:38:17 +1100, Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 14:55:47 -0500, Wade Garrett wrote:
>
>> ...except that the Android OS sucks, in part due to lack of updating on
>> some phone and tablet models I've owned several that weren't and
>> switched to Apple products-- the nasty Apple Tax notwithstanding...
>
> Samsung updates all known security vulnerabilities for five years via
> Samsung's public advertised written promises you can find on the net.
>
> What's the Apple written promise for how long Apple updates all known
> security vulnerabilities and where is that published on the net?
>
> No guessing allowed.
> Written promises only.

Don't need a written promise, us iphone users can see with the
updates available that Apple keeps doing that for a very long time
even with the obsolete iphones which can no longer run the latest iOS.

On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 07:45:41 +1100, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 07:21:25 +1100, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2023-01-21 12:13, Rod Speed wrote:
>>> On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 06:35:13 +1100, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2023-01-21 11:32, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 05:58:11 +1100, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2023-01-21 06:38, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>>>> On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 12:32:09 -0700, AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 1/20/2023 12:03 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I use Forte Agent 6.0 Can you tell me how to design a filter
>>>>>>>>> properly so that nym-shifting won't help trolls?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Use a mental filter.
>>>>>>> No.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you dislike a poster just don't open his posts.
>>>>>>>> Easy peasy.
>>>>>>> Maybe easy peasy for you, but that's not for me. It takes
>>>>>>> considerably
>>>>>>> longer to have to see and bypass posts. I kill-file trolls
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry, but that's complete bullshit.
>>>>> Not if you use the news client like he does, hits the space bar
>>>>> to step thru the posts he wants to read.
>>>>
>>>> Nope. It's still bullshit.
>>> Nope.
>>>
>>>> It is the work of less than a moment to hit "Next" if you read the
>>>> name of a sender or see a subject you don't like.

Yes, less than a moment. But as I said, "less than a moments" add up.

>>> He doesnt do that, he just hits space to step thru the posts that
>>> don't get kill filed. That's much quicker than reading the poster
>>> name and not clicking on the ones you decide are trolls.
>
>> No, it objectively is not.
>
>We'll see...
>
>> I'm using Thunderbird
>
>Ken isnt.

Actually, I am. But just for e-mail, not Usenet. I used it for Usenet
for a while, but I had a problem with it and I gave up and went back
to Agent. I like both Thunderbird and Agent for newsgroups, so I
didn't mind going back to Agent.
>
>> and there is a shortcut on the keyboard not more than 1.25" away from
>> the spacebar which allows you to step through a post screen by screen to
>> the bottom before it moves you to the next post:
>
>> "F"
>
>Nothing to do with your previous claim that it is quicker
>to look at the sender and decide to not read that post.

Right.

>> It's ctrl-N in Forte Agent.
>
>> That is no slower than the space bar.
>
>But having to look at the sender and decide whether to skip that
>post will always take longer than not bothering to read who the
>sender is and just tap on the spacebar. And it takes more effort
>with two finger than just leave you thumb on the space bar.

Exactly right. Once again, the difference is slight but it adds up
with many messages.

>And with the worst of the trolls like peeler who posts a series of
>trolls in a row almost all the time, even using ctrl-N repeatedly
>for all if its posts is much more effort than having him in the kill
>file and just using the space bar to step between non troll posts.

Right!

Thanks for your support.

But a final comment to Alan. He is free to believe what ever he wants
to and do whatever he wants to. My view is different from his, and
I'll continue to do it my way, not his.

On 2023-01-21 15:41, Ken Blake wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 07:45:41 +1100, "Rod Speed"
> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 07:21:25 +1100, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2023-01-21 12:13, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 06:35:13 +1100, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2023-01-21 11:32, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 05:58:11 +1100, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2023-01-21 06:38, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 12:32:09 -0700, AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 1/20/2023 12:03 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I use Forte Agent 6.0 Can you tell me how to design a filter
>>>>>>>>>> properly so that nym-shifting won't help trolls?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Use a mental filter.
>>>>>>>> No.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you dislike a poster just don't open his posts.
>>>>>>>>> Easy peasy.
>>>>>>>> Maybe easy peasy for you, but that's not for me. It takes
>>>>>>>> considerably
>>>>>>>> longer to have to see and bypass posts. I kill-file trolls
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sorry, but that's complete bullshit.
>>>>>> Not if you use the news client like he does, hits the space bar
>>>>>> to step thru the posts he wants to read.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nope. It's still bullshit.
>>>> Nope.
>>>>
>>>>> It is the work of less than a moment to hit "Next" if you read the
>>>>> name of a sender or see a subject you don't like.
>
> Yes, less than a moment. But as I said, "less than a moments" add up.
>
>
>>>> He doesnt do that, he just hits space to step thru the posts that
>>>> don't get kill filed. That's much quicker than reading the poster
>>>> name and not clicking on the ones you decide are trolls.
>>
>>> No, it objectively is not.
>>
>> We'll see...
>>
>>> I'm using Thunderbird
>>
>> Ken isnt.
>
>
> Actually, I am. But just for e-mail, not Usenet. I used it for Usenet
> for a while, but I had a problem with it and I gave up and went back
> to Agent. I like both Thunderbird and Agent for newsgroups, so I
> didn't mind going back to Agent.
>>
>>> and there is a shortcut on the keyboard not more than 1.25" away from
>>> the spacebar which allows you to step through a post screen by screen to
>>> the bottom before it moves you to the next post:
>>
>>> "F"
>>
>> Nothing to do with your previous claim that it is quicker
>> to look at the sender and decide to not read that post.
>
>
> Right.
>
>>> It's ctrl-N in Forte Agent.
>>
>>> That is no slower than the space bar.
>>
>> But having to look at the sender and decide whether to skip that
>> post will always take longer than not bothering to read who the
>> sender is and just tap on the spacebar. And it takes more effort
>> with two finger than just leave you thumb on the space bar.
>
>
> Exactly right. Once again, the difference is slight but it adds up
> with many messages.
>
>> And with the worst of the trolls like peeler who posts a series of
>> trolls in a row almost all the time, even using ctrl-N repeatedly
>> for all if its posts is much more effort than having him in the kill
>> file and just using the space bar to step between non troll posts.
>
> Right!
>
> Thanks for your support.
>
> But a final comment to Alan. He is free to believe what ever he wants
> to and do whatever he wants to. My view is different from his, and
> I'll continue to do it my way, not his.

As it should be...

....but it doesn't mean your rationale isn't bullshit.

On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 11:01:21 +1100, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

> On 2023-01-21 15:41, Ken Blake wrote:
>> On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 07:45:41 +1100, "Rod Speed"
>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 07:21:25 +1100, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2023-01-21 12:13, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 06:35:13 +1100, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2023-01-21 11:32, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 05:58:11 +1100, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2023-01-21 06:38, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 12:32:09 -0700, AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 1/20/2023 12:03 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I use Forte Agent 6.0 Can you tell me how to design a filter
>>>>>>>>>>> properly so that nym-shifting won't help trolls?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Use a mental filter.
>>>>>>>>> No.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If you dislike a poster just don't open his posts.
>>>>>>>>>> Easy peasy.
>>>>>>>>> Maybe easy peasy for you, but that's not for me. It takes
>>>>>>>>> considerably
>>>>>>>>> longer to have to see and bypass posts. I kill-file trolls
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sorry, but that's complete bullshit.
>>>>>>> Not if you use the news client like he does, hits the space bar
>>>>>>> to step thru the posts he wants to read.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nope. It's still bullshit.
>>>>> Nope.
>>>>>
>>>>>> It is the work of less than a moment to hit "Next" if you read the
>>>>>> name of a sender or see a subject you don't like.
>> Yes, less than a moment. But as I said, "less than a moments" add up.
>>
>>>>> He doesnt do that, he just hits space to step thru the posts that
>>>>> don't get kill filed. That's much quicker than reading the poster
>>>>> name and not clicking on the ones you decide are trolls.
>>>
>>>> No, it objectively is not.
>>>
>>> We'll see...
>>>
>>>> I'm using Thunderbird
>>>
>>> Ken isnt.
>> Actually, I am. But just for e-mail, not Usenet. I used it for Usenet
>> for a while, but I had a problem with it and I gave up and went back
>> to Agent. I like both Thunderbird and Agent for newsgroups, so I
>> didn't mind going back to Agent.
>>>
>>>> and there is a shortcut on the keyboard not more than 1.25" away from
>>>> the spacebar which allows you to step through a post screen by screen
>>>> to
>>>> the bottom before it moves you to the next post:
>>>
>>>> "F"
>>>
>>> Nothing to do with your previous claim that it is quicker
>>> to look at the sender and decide to not read that post.
>> Right.
>>
>>>> It's ctrl-N in Forte Agent.
>>>
>>>> That is no slower than the space bar.
>>>
>>> But having to look at the sender and decide whether to skip that
>>> post will always take longer than not bothering to read who the
>>> sender is and just tap on the spacebar. And it takes more effort
>>> with two finger than just leave you thumb on the space bar.
>> Exactly right. Once again, the difference is slight but it adds up
>> with many messages.
>>
>>> And with the worst of the trolls like peeler who posts a series of
>>> trolls in a row almost all the time, even using ctrl-N repeatedly
>>> for all if its posts is much more effort than having him in the kill
>>> file and just using the space bar to step between non troll posts.
>> Right!
>> Thanks for your support.
>> But a final comment to Alan. He is free to believe what ever he wants
>> to and do whatever he wants to. My view is different from his, and
>> I'll continue to do it my way, not his.
>
> As it should be...
>
> ...but it doesn't mean your rationale isn't bullshit.

No bullshit involved in doing what you find more convenient.

On 2023-01-21 16:47, Rod Speed wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 11:01:21 +1100, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2023-01-21 15:41, Ken Blake wrote:
>>> On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 07:45:41 +1100, "Rod Speed"
>>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 07:21:25 +1100, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2023-01-21 12:13, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 06:35:13 +1100, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2023-01-21 11:32, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 05:58:11 +1100, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 2023-01-21 06:38, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 12:32:09 -0700, AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/20/2023 12:03 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I use Forte Agent 6.0 Can you tell me how to design a filter
>>>>>>>>>>>> properly so that nym-shifting won't help trolls?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Use a mental filter.
>>>>>>>>>>   No.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If you dislike a poster just don't open his posts.
>>>>>>>>>>> Easy peasy.
>>>>>>>>>>   Maybe easy peasy for you, but that's not for me. It takes
>>>>>>>>>> considerably
>>>>>>>>>> longer to have to see and bypass posts. I kill-file trolls
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sorry, but that's complete bullshit.
>>>>>>>>   Not if you use the news client like he does, hits the space bar
>>>>>>>> to step thru the posts he wants to read.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nope. It's still bullshit.
>>>>>>   Nope.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is the work of less than a moment to hit "Next" if you read the
>>>>>>> name of a sender or see a subject you don't like.
>>>  Yes, less than  a moment. But as I said, "less than a moments" add up.
>>>
>>>>>>   He doesnt do that, he just hits space to step thru the posts that
>>>>>> don't get kill filed. That's much quicker than reading the poster
>>>>>> name and not clicking on the ones you decide are trolls.
>>>>
>>>>> No, it objectively is not.
>>>>
>>>> We'll see...
>>>>
>>>>> I'm using Thunderbird
>>>>
>>>> Ken isnt.
>>>   Actually, I am. But just for e-mail, not Usenet. I used it for Usenet
>>> for a while, but I had a problem with it and I gave up and went back
>>> to Agent. I like both Thunderbird and Agent for newsgroups, so I
>>> didn't mind going back to Agent.
>>>>
>>>>> and there is a shortcut on the keyboard not more than 1.25" away from
>>>>> the spacebar which allows you to step through a post screen by
>>>>> screen to
>>>>> the bottom before it moves you to the next post:
>>>>
>>>>> "F"
>>>>
>>>> Nothing to do with your previous claim that it is quicker
>>>> to look at the sender and decide to not read that post.
>>>   Right.
>>>
>>>>> It's ctrl-N in Forte Agent.
>>>>
>>>>> That is no slower than the space bar.
>>>>
>>>> But having to look at the sender and decide whether to skip that
>>>> post will always take longer than not bothering to read who the
>>>> sender is and just tap on the spacebar. And it takes more effort
>>>> with two finger than just leave you thumb on the space bar.
>>>   Exactly right. Once again, the difference is slight but it adds up
>>> with many messages.
>>>
>>>> And with the worst of the trolls like peeler who posts a series of
>>>> trolls in a row almost all the time, even using ctrl-N repeatedly
>>>> for all if its posts is much more effort than having him in the kill
>>>> file and just using the space bar to step between non troll posts.
>>>  Right!
>>>  Thanks for your support.
>>>  But a final comment to Alan. He is free to believe what ever he wants
>>> to and do whatever he wants to. My view is different from his, and
>>> I'll continue to do it my way, not his.
>>
>> As it should be...
>>
>> ...but it doesn't mean your rationale isn't bullshit.
>
> No bullshit involved in doing what you find more convenient.

Sorry, but that's more bullshit.

On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 11:59:36 +1100, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

> On 2023-01-21 16:47, Rod Speed wrote:
>> On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 11:01:21 +1100, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2023-01-21 15:41, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 07:45:41 +1100, "Rod Speed"
>>>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 07:21:25 +1100, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2023-01-21 12:13, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 06:35:13 +1100, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2023-01-21 11:32, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 05:58:11 +1100, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 2023-01-21 06:38, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 12:32:09 -0700, AJL <noemail@none.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/20/2023 12:03 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I use Forte Agent 6.0 Can you tell me how to design a filter
>>>>>>>>>>>>> properly so that nym-shifting won't help trolls?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Use a mental filter.
>>>>>>>>>>> No.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If you dislike a poster just don't open his posts.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Easy peasy.
>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe easy peasy for you, but that's not for me. It takes
>>>>>>>>>>> considerably
>>>>>>>>>>> longer to have to see and bypass posts. I kill-file trolls
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, but that's complete bullshit.
>>>>>>>>> Not if you use the news client like he does, hits the space bar
>>>>>>>>> to step thru the posts he wants to read.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nope. It's still bullshit.
>>>>>>> Nope.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It is the work of less than a moment to hit "Next" if you read the
>>>>>>>> name of a sender or see a subject you don't like.
>>>> Yes, less than a moment. But as I said, "less than a moments" add
>>>> up.
>>>>
>>>>>>> He doesnt do that, he just hits space to step thru the posts that
>>>>>>> don't get kill filed. That's much quicker than reading the poster
>>>>>>> name and not clicking on the ones you decide are trolls.
>>>>>
>>>>>> No, it objectively is not.
>>>>>
>>>>> We'll see...
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm using Thunderbird
>>>>>
>>>>> Ken isnt.
>>>> Actually, I am. But just for e-mail, not Usenet. I used it for
>>>> Usenet
>>>> for a while, but I had a problem with it and I gave up and went back
>>>> to Agent. I like both Thunderbird and Agent for newsgroups, so I
>>>> didn't mind going back to Agent.
>>>>>
>>>>>> and there is a shortcut on the keyboard not more than 1.25" away
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> the spacebar which allows you to step through a post screen by
>>>>>> screen to
>>>>>> the bottom before it moves you to the next post:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "F"
>>>>>
>>>>> Nothing to do with your previous claim that it is quicker
>>>>> to look at the sender and decide to not read that post.
>>>> Right.
>>>>
>>>>>> It's ctrl-N in Forte Agent.
>>>>>
>>>>>> That is no slower than the space bar.
>>>>>
>>>>> But having to look at the sender and decide whether to skip that
>>>>> post will always take longer than not bothering to read who the
>>>>> sender is and just tap on the spacebar. And it takes more effort
>>>>> with two finger than just leave you thumb on the space bar.
>>>> Exactly right. Once again, the difference is slight but it adds up
>>>> with many messages.
>>>>
>>>>> And with the worst of the trolls like peeler who posts a series of
>>>>> trolls in a row almost all the time, even using ctrl-N repeatedly
>>>>> for all if its posts is much more effort than having him in the kill
>>>>> file and just using the space bar to step between non troll posts.
>>>> Right!
>>>> Thanks for your support.
>>>> But a final comment to Alan. He is free to believe what ever he wants
>>>> to and do whatever he wants to. My view is different from his, and
>>>> I'll continue to do it my way, not his.
>>>
>>> As it should be...
>>>
>>> ...but it doesn't mean your rationale isn't bullshit.
>> No bullshit involved in doing what you find more convenient.
>
> Sorry,

Liar.

> but that's more bullshit.

You are full of bullshit.

On 1/20/2023 7:20 PM, Thomas wrote:

> Since you keep mentioning 'flagship' - may I ask what ADVANTAGE there is to
> a phone that lacks either the card or the jack?

No advantage. I prefer having both, for multiple reasons.

But the reality is that if you're buying a new phone these days there
aren't a lot of phones, either flaghship or mid-range, that have those
two features.

On Sunday, January 22, 2023 at 3:47:47 AM, sms wrote:

> On 1/20/2023 7:20 PM, Thomas wrote:
>
>> Since you keep mentioning 'flagship' - may I ask what ADVANTAGE there is to
>> a phone that lacks either the card or the jack?
>
> No advantage. I prefer having both, for multiple reasons.

I knew that was the answer so I'm happy you said that there is no inherent
advantage of not having the sd card slot or the 3.5 mm extension jack.

Thank you for being honest with me.
> But the reality is that if you're buying a new phone these days there
> aren't a lot of phones, either flaghship or mid-range, that have those
> two features.

The original post shows otherwise - so you must disagree with the criteria?
What did you find wrong with the original search url in the original post?

On 1/22/2023 2:11 PM, Thomas wrote:
> On Sunday, January 22, 2023 at 3:47:47 AM, sms wrote:
>
>> On 1/20/2023 7:20 PM, Thomas wrote:
>>
>>> Since you keep mentioning 'flagship' - may I ask what ADVANTAGE there is to
>>> a phone that lacks either the card or the jack?
>>
>> No advantage. I prefer having both, for multiple reasons.
>
> I knew that was the answer so I'm happy you said that there is no inherent
> advantage of not having the sd card slot or the 3.5 mm extension jack.
>
> Thank you for being honest with me.
>
>> But the reality is that if you're buying a new phone these days there
>> aren't a lot of phones, either flaghship or mid-range, that have those
>> two features.
>
> The original post shows otherwise - so you must disagree with the criteria?
> What did you find wrong with the original search url in the original post?

I didn't see the original post since that poster is filtered out for
obvious reasons. It's easy to use GSMArena to find _current_ phones with
both. That's what I did, and it's obviously far more valid that what our
favorite nym-shifting troll attempted.

On 1/18/2023 6:10 PM, Bill W wrote:
> On Jan 19, 2023, Alan wrote (in article
> <news:tqa84g$145pv$1@dont-email.me>):
>
>> On 2023-01-18 17:32, Andy Burnelli wrote:
>>> While 0% of iPhones have modern portable storage capabilities, and while 0%
>>> of the current iPhones have the versatile industry standard 3.5 mm jack,
>>
>> That's not a modern feature, nor is there any "standard" about what sort
>> of headphone jack a smartphone should have.
>
> why do three quarters of modern Android phones have the jack choice then?

They do not.

> why do three quarters of modern Android phones have the sd card choice?

They do not.

> why do two thirds of modern Android phones have the choice of both?

They do not.

> why doesn't any current iPhone give the iPhone owner that same choice?

It adds cost. It adds complexity. It reduces the likelihood that the
owner will buy AirPods or a phone with a higher amount of storage.

Android manufacturers have followed suit. Only a very small percentage
of current Android devices available for sale have those two features.

In article <tqkfqb$12mg$2@gioia.aioe.org>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

>
> > why doesn't any current iPhone give the iPhone owner that same choice?
>
> It adds cost. It adds complexity.

both are minor.

they take up space that can be better used for features more people
want along with reducing reliability. the analog headphone jack was one
of the most common failure modes.

> It reduces the likelihood that the
> owner will buy AirPods or a phone with a higher amount of storage.

both demonstrably false.

On 19/01/2023 20:57, Bill W wrote:
> On Jan 19, 2023, Alan wrote (in article
> <news:tqa9j8$155gb$1@dont-email.me>):
>
>> Why do so many people buy iPhones if those choices are so very critical
>> to people?
>
> You mean those same people who buy bad designs like this iPhone cup holder?
> http://www.toxel.com/tech/2013/01/26/iphone-cup-holder/

Now you're really being silly. I've never owned an iPhone but I don't
believe for a moment that you have to give them something to drink.

--
Brian Gregory (in England).

On Sunday, January 22, 2023 at 11:09:09 PM, sms wrote:

> I didn't see the original post

Then how can you meaningfully dispute the original poster provided a url
that showed three quarters of Android models built since 2019 have it?

How can you dispute facts you said you've never bothered to look at?

You can't dispute the results just because you don't like the poster.
That's called being dishonest with the facts.

On 1/22/2023 4:20 PM, Thomas wrote:
> On Sunday, January 22, 2023 at 11:09:09 PM, sms wrote:
>
>> I didn't see the original post
>
> Then how can you meaningfully dispute the original poster provided a url
> that showed three quarters of Android models built since 2019 have it?

Because I used GSMArena to produce accurate data.

On Jan 22, 2023, sms wrote (in article
<news:tqkfqb$12mg$2@gioia.aioe.org>):

>> why do three quarters of modern Android phones have the jack choice then?
>
> They do not.

They do.
You said yourself that you ignored the urls provided in the op.
So you're disputing the facts only because you don't happen to like them.
>> why do three quarters of modern Android phones have the sd card choice?
>
> They do not.

They do.
How can you dispute what gsmarena found out by a simple search.

You find all androids. Then you find those with sd cards.
How can you dispute results that obvious without even looking at them?

>> why do two thirds of modern Android phones have the choice of both?
>
> They do not.

They do.
You run a search for all androids.
Then you turn on those two filters.

You added something like a dozen extra filters to bastardize the results.

>> why doesn't any current iPhone give the iPhone owner that same choice?
>
> It adds cost. It adds complexity. It reduces the likelihood that the
> owner will buy AirPods or a phone with a higher amount of storage.

The cost is nothing to Apple. The complexity is nothing to Apple.
The push towards AirPods or more expensive storage is everything to Apple.

> Android manufacturers have followed suit. Only a very small percentage
> of current Android devices available for sale have those two features.

That's only true if you think seventy five percent of android models since
2019 is a "very small percentage" but most people would say 3/4 is a lot.

You search for Androids.
You turn on the filter for sd (or 3.5) mm.
You take the percentage.

Your search added a dozen off the wall unrelated filters because your goal
was to come up with a result that made sure it was a small percentage.

Run the search again with just 3 years of Androids (which are the models in
use today) & then turn on just the one or the other button & nothing else.

It's three quarters of all androids out there today that have one or the
other and two thirds of all androids out there today that have both.

Bill W <nothing@nowhere.com> wrote:
> That's only true if you think seventy five percent of android models since
> 2019 is a "very small percentage" but most people would say 3/4 is a lot.

So what? Even if 100% of Android phones had SD slots and headphone jacks,
in the U.S. Apple still sells more phones than all Android phones combined.

The fact is, lots of people don’t give a damn about SD cards and wired
headphones. And lots of people do.

WTF is everyone arguing about here? I thought it was all about “choice”?
We all have plenty of choices. Choose whatever the hell YOU want and don’t
worry about what OTHERS want.

MUST we always have fucking ridiculous arguments here?

In article <RrmcnQwhAMgEM1P-nZ2dnZfqnPqdnZ2d@supernews.com>, Bob
Campbell <none@none.none> wrote:

>
> MUST we always have fucking ridiculous arguments here?

it's usenet. what did you expect?

nospam wrote:

>> MUST we always have fucking ridiculous arguments here?
>
> it's usenet. what did you expect?

No. You're wrong, nospam.
You don't understand because your IQ is too low for you to do that.
You don't even realize it's _only_ the iKooks disputing the facts.

Do you not realize that nospam?
It's _only_ the iKooks who hate the facts.

BTW, Steve is different in that he only looks at a _subset_ of phones.

Put simply so you can understand, the reason for all the "ridiculous
arguments" is simply that all you iKooks are incredibly stupid.

In your case, you're not "as stupid" but you are ignorant of everything.
The end result is the same: *You _hate_ facts*

FACT:
*Most Android models built in the past 3 years have both sd & 3.5mm*

All those "ridiculous arguments" are from stupid ignorant uneducated people
hating that one single well proven incontrovertible basic fact, nospam.

There's a simple reason for those "ridiculous arguments", nospam.
A. The reason is that people like Bob Campbell & Alan Baker are stupid.
B. The reason is that people like you, nospam, are ignorant about Apple.
C. And, the reason is that people like Steve, will distort the figures.
D. And, of course, the reason is people like me, write the facts.

*And the facts are that three quarters of Android models built & sold*
*in the past 3 years have either the sd card slot or the 3.5 mm port.*

*And the facts are that the majority of Android models have both.*

You and Steve simply _hate_ that fact.
That's the _only_ reason for the "ridiculous arguments".

The "ridiculous arguments" are simply due to people _hating_ those facts:
a. Steve hates it because it doesn't only look at high-end phones alone
b. The iKooks hate it because it shows how crippled iPhones truly are
c. You hate every fact that shows the iPhone substandard to Android

All of the "ridiculous arguments" are due to those simple basic obvious
realities, nospam - but people like you and Bob Campbell don't own the IQ
to understand something as basic and simple and obvious as that.

1. The fact is a fact, whether or not you _like_ that fact.
2. Steve _hates_ the fact (so he creates a _different_ fact).
3. The iKooks _hate_ the fact (so they lie and say facts can't exist).

And yet, the fact you hate facts doesn't change that they're still facts.

FACT:
*Most Android models built in the past 3 years have both sd & 3.5mm*