In article <n6ucmvwp036z.dlg@mid.crommatograph.info>,
lispamateur@crommatograph.info says...
>
> * Ken Blake:
>
> > On Fri, 6 May 2022 17:27:24 -0400, Quinn C
> > <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:
> >
> >>* Peter T. Daniels:
> >>
> >>> Yesterday was very sad indeed. "I've never seen Citizen Kane." Is that
> >>> really necessary, to know that Xanadu was involved? She's probably
> >>> never seen GwtW either, but wouldn't she recognize Scarlett O'Hara,
> >>> Rhett Butler, or even Tara?
> >>>
> >>> How many of today's generations have never seen the classic films --
> >>> especially the ones that aren't in color?
> >>
> >>I've never seen Citizen Kane, nor did I remember clearly about Xanadu,
> >
> > So never did you your stately pleasure domes decree?
>
> I don't even understand what "decree" means in this sentence.

In Xanadu did Kubla Khan
A stately pleasure-dome decree:
Where Alph, the sacred river, ran
Through caverns measureless to man
Down to a sunless sea.
So twice five miles of fertile ground
With walls and towers were girdled round;
And there were gardens bright with sinuous rills,
Where blossomed many an incense-bearing tree;
And here were forests ancient as the hills,
Enfolding sunny spots of greenery.

(written by Samuel Coleridge under the influence of opium)

Quinn might have come across Coleridge's connection with German
philosophy

Janet

Janet

On 07/05/2022 10:22 am, Janet wrote:
> In article <n6ucmvwp036z.dlg@mid.crommatograph.info>,
> lispamateur@crommatograph.info says...
>>
>> * Ken Blake:
>>
>>> On Fri, 6 May 2022 17:27:24 -0400, Quinn C
>>> <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>>>
>>>> * Peter T. Daniels:
>>>>
>>>>> Yesterday was very sad indeed. "I've never seen Citizen Kane." Is that
>>>>> really necessary, to know that Xanadu was involved? She's probably
>>>>> never seen GwtW either, but wouldn't she recognize Scarlett O'Hara,
>>>>> Rhett Butler, or even Tara?
>>>>>
>>>>> How many of today's generations have never seen the classic films --
>>>>> especially the ones that aren't in color?
>>>>
>>>> I've never seen Citizen Kane, nor did I remember clearly about Xanadu,
>>>
>>> So never did you your stately pleasure domes decree?
>>
>> I don't even understand what "decree" means in this sentence.
>
> In Xanadu did Kubla Khan
> A stately pleasure-dome decree:
> Where Alph, the sacred river, ran
> Through caverns measureless to man
> Down to a sunless sea.
> So twice five miles of fertile ground
> With walls and towers were girdled round;
> And there were gardens bright with sinuous rills,
> Where blossomed many an incense-bearing tree;
> And here were forests ancient as the hills,
> Enfolding sunny spots of greenery.
>
> (written by Samuel Coleridge under the influence of opium)

And then of course there is the 1977 re-working, written by Neil
Peart under the influence of heaven knows what:

“To seek the sacred river Alph
To walk the caves of ice
To break my fast on honey dew
And drink the milk of Paradise…”

I had heard the whispered tales
Of immortality
The deepest mystery
From an ancient book. I took a clue
I scaled the frozen mountain tops
Of eastern lands unknown
Time and Man alone
Searching for the lost — Xanadu
Xanadu —

To stand within The Pleasure Dome
Decreed by Kubla Khan
To taste anew the fruits of life
The last immortal man
To find the sacred river Alph
To walk the caves of ice
Oh, I will dine on honey dew
And drink the milk of Paradise

A thousand years have come and gone
But time has passed me by
Stars stopped in the sky
Frozen in an everlasting view
Waiting for the world to end
Weary of the night
Praying for the light
Prison of the lost — Xanadu

Xanadu —

Held within The Pleasure Dome
Decreed by Kubla Khan
To taste my bitter triumph
As a mad immortal man
Nevermore shall I return
Escape these caves of ice
For I have dined on honey dew
And drunk the milk of Paradise

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

On 5/6/2022 9:24 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> CDB wrote:
>> Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>> Madhu wrote:
>>>> * Tony Cooper:
>>>>> Adam Funk <a24061 @ducksburg.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Tony Cooper wrote:
>>>>>>> Adam Funk <a24061 @ducksburg.com>

>>>>>>>> But if someone says "I'm going to complain to my
>>>>>>>> congressmen [or congresswoman]" by default that refers
>>>>>>>> to a member of the House of Representatives, doesn't
>>>>>>>> it?

>>>>>>> It wouldn't have that default to me. This page provides
>>>>>>> guidance:
>>>>>>> https://classroom.synonym.com/file-letter-complaint-congressman-11940.html
>>>>>>>
>>>> That page severely needs to be audited for gender-language
>>>> compliance.

>>> No, it doesn't.

>>>> It implies Senators are male and House is female.

>>> No, it doesn't.

>>>> "Use the proper form of address. Letters to senators are
>>>> addressed to "Senator John Doe," while letters to House members
>>>> are addressed to "The Honorable (or Representative) Jane Doe."

>>> The only people who would draw your idiotic conclusion from that
>>> passage are (a) idiots and (b) people looking for a fight. Which
>>> are you?

>> Peace out, sib. We'll make it "Jean Deau".

> Have you ever considered a career in the Corps Diplomatique?

I knew too much about the life to consider it.

I once had to write a letter to one "Jean Royce", and didn't know how to
address em.

On 5/7/2022 12:37 AM, Tony Cooper wrote:
> Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>> Tony Cooper wrote:
>>> Quinn C <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:

>>>> For example, it's advisable to learn all the US presidents
>>>> with their number - not knowledge of "worldwide" importance
>>>> (that you number your presidents at all is a unique quirk.)

>>> Unique quirk? Scanning a list of kings and queens numbering
>>> seems quite prevalent. Only the sequence differs.

>> That's a different kind of numbering. Henry VIII was not the eighth
>> king of England. He was only the eighth one to be named Henry.

> I do know that, but the statement was that we number our presidents,
> and associating a number with a ruler is not unique to the US.

> Our Presidents are only numbered when we refer to them as part of
> the sequence. Martin Van Buren is still known as a President of
> the United States without noting he was the 8th. Henry is always
> Henry VIII.

You do have Bush I and Bush II.

--
Not to mention the ever-popular Mae.

On 5/6/2022 10:40 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> CDB wrote:
>> Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>> Quinn C wrote:
>>>> Peter T. Daniels:
>>>>> Quinn C wrote:
>>>>>> Ruud Harmsen:
>>>>>>> "Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:

>>>>>>>> They were also very fond of Locke. Mattea would know.
>>>>>>> Incomprehensible, irrelevant and uncalled for reaction.
>>>>>>> Who is Locke? Who is Mattea?
>>>>>> If you don't even know who Locke is (or Berkeley or
>>>>>> Hobbes), you won't win in Jeopardy against Mattea Roach,
>>>>>> who's currently on a winning streak, one of the biggest in
>>>>>> history, again (there were two of those quite recently).
>>>>> Last night Ken all but apologized for the "gimme" Final
>>>>> Question, using the excuse that the questions were written
>>>>> months ago and used randomly. Would that have prevented them
>>>>> from removing one that consisted of nothing but recognizing
>>>>> the second line of "O Canada"?

>>>> Any intervention that takes the candidates into account
>>>> introduces subjectivity and thus unfairness.

>>> There have been an awful lot of questions in the last few weeks
>>> pertaining specifically to Canada. Someone's thumb seems to be on
>>> the scale.

>> Alex Trebek used to make sure there were questions about Canada in
>> the mix (embarrassingly few of them got more than blank looks).
>> They may do this in memory of him.

> Did he ensure there would be Midwest questions when a Chicago
> candidate was on?

I don't think I suggested that he would arrange Canadian questions for
Canadian contestants. My mention of blank-faced reactions seems to me
to rule that out.

>>> They seem to believe that long streaks are good for ratings, but
>>> in fact they're boring. It was shocking last night that no one
>>> knew (NASA shmASA) that Apollo's twin sister is Artemis, or who
>>> Peter Stuyvesant was (never mind the portrait, "handed NY over to
>>> the Brits" was enough).

>> Artemis was also called Selene, which would have been a good guess
>> for a moonshot.

> Though it's not the name of the new lunar exploration program.

My remark addressed the idea that the contestants were shockingly
ignorant of the name of Apollo's sister. I doubt that they all were,
but they may have faced an embarrassment of choice, as my
formerly-siggish comment pointed out below.

>> Tu potens Trivia et notho es/ dicta lumine Luna.

>> You [Diana] are powerful Trivia [Hecate] and, for your bastard
>> light, are [called] Luna.

On 5/6/2022 10:28 PM, Peter Moylan wrote:
> CDB wrote:

>> We, on the other hand, have "Question Period", a somewhat raucous
>> hour every sitting day in which Ministers answer questions put to
>> them by backbenchers of all parties (but mostly opposition
>> parties). Or don't:

> We have a convention that the government and opposition take turns
> in asking questions. That means that all the even-numbered questions
> are Dorothy Dixers, and all the odd-numbered ones receive responses
> that are unrelated to the question.

Their big mistake was deciding to televise QP. It's more of a
vaudeville act now than it ought to be.

The proceedings are all televised, but the debates go unwatched by most
people.

On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 5:27:25 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
> * Peter T. Daniels:
> > Yesterday was very sad indeed. "I've never seen Citizen Kane." Is that
> > really necessary, to know that Xanadu was involved? She's probably
> > never seen GwtW either, but wouldn't she recognize Scarlett O'Hara,
> > Rhett Butler, or even Tara?
> >
> > How many of today's generations have never seen the classic films --
> > especially the ones that aren't in color?
> I've never seen Citizen Kane, nor did I remember clearly about Xanadu,
> but I came up with the answer because it's a news-related film.
>
> Not even guessing anything is quite bad, but I might freeze under
> stress, too.

The Fall of Mattea was like baseball! A game of inches! If either
of them had wagered differently, it wouldn't have happened! My
heart sank when the challenger's wager was revealed -- but Mattea
chose an odd and uncharacteristic number and lost by $1.

On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 5:27:27 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:

> Someone preparing for Jeopardy has to take into account that it is an
> American show and should beef up their knowledge of US-specific things.
> For example, it's advisable to learn all the US presidents with their
> number - not knowledge of "worldwide" importance (that you number your
> presidents at all is a unique quirk.)

We don't, actually. It became salient only with 41 and 43 because they
had almost exactly the same name and the second one isn't a Junior.

The National Archives had to figure out how to count Cleveland, not
all that long ago..

As the guy said, he only knew Harding because Coolidge's number
had been given in the previous question.

On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 5:27:28 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
> * Peter T. Daniels:
> > On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 9:29:01 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:
> >> On 5/5/2022 11:41 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >>> Quinn C wrote:
> >>>> Peter T. Daniels:
> >>>>> Quinn C wrote:
> >>>>>> Ruud Harmsen:
> >>>>>>> "Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:

> >>>>>>>> They were also very fond of Locke. Mattea would know.
> >>>>>>> Incomprehensible, irrelevant and uncalled for reaction. Who
> >>>>>>> is Locke? Who is Mattea?
> >>>>>> If you don't even know who Locke is (or Berkeley or Hobbes),
> >>>>>> you won't win in Jeopardy against Mattea Roach, who's currently
> >>>>>> on a winning streak, one of the biggest in history, again
> >>>>>> (there were two of those quite recently).
> >>>>> Last night Ken all but apologized for the "gimme" Final
> >>>>> Question, using the excuse that the questions were written months
> >>>>> ago and used randomly. Would that have prevented them from
> >>>>> removing one that consisted of nothing but recognizing the second
> >>>>> line of "O Canada"?
> >>>> Any intervention that takes the candidates into account introduces
> >>>> subjectivity and thus unfairness.
> >>> There have been an awful lot of questions in the last few weeks
> >>> pertaining specifically to Canada. Someone's thumb seems to be on the
> >>> scale.
> >> Alex Trebek used to make sure there were questions about Canada in the
> >> mix (embarrassingly few of them got more than blank looks). They may do
> >> this in memory of him.
> > Did he ensure there would be Midwest questions when a Chicago
> > candidate was on?
>
> The claim was that Canadian questions were included at all times, not
> when Canadian candidates are on, which would be skewing the results.
>
> It's reasonable to have some Canadian contents when Canadians are
> allowed to enter, while being disadvantaged in many other questions.
> IIRC, before Mattea, no Canadian had managed to win 5 times.

Few anythings ever had.

(In the olden days, there was a maximum of five appearances,
as on many game shows.

Note, BTW, that Ken had to repeat the disclaimer about "months ago"
and "random."

And Mayim, the Host of *Jeopardy!*, will be back on Monday, Johnny
Gilbert saud..

On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 5:27:28 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
> * Peter T. Daniels:
> > On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 10:44:33 AM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
> >> * Peter T. Daniels:
> >>> On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 6:05:00 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:

> >>>> I've read the name "Antietam" before, but didn't know the pronunciation,
> >>>> so couldn't identify it as a rhyme of "beat 'em" (I gave it four
> >>>> syllables in my mind).
> >>> Oh, you're so German.
> >> What makes you say that? I decided *not* to read the "tie" as in German,
> >> but that's what you do, actually.
> > Presumably it's Algonquian.
> > How would that name be read if it were German?
>
> [anti:tam]

How would you give it four syllables?

You didn't mark the stress.

On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 7:45:35 PM UTC-4, bil...@shaw.ca wrote:
> On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 8:02:29 AM UTC-7, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 10:44:33 AM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
> > > * Peter T. Daniels:

> > > >> I've read the name "Antietam" before, but didn't know the pronunciation,
> > > >> so couldn't identify it as a rhyme of "beat 'em" (I gave it four
> > > >> syllables in my mind).
> > > > Oh, you're so German.
> > > What makes you say that? I decided *not* to read the "tie" as in German,
> > > but that's what you do, actually.
> > Presumably it's Algonquian.
> > How would that name be read if it were German?
> > Compare "Saugerties," a presumably Dutch toponym.
>
> Wikipedia tells me "Saugerties" is derived from "zagertje", meaning
> "little sawyer". Dutch, yes, toponym, no.

It's a toponym, and it's Dutch.

"Coney Island" is a Dutch toponym, in a roundabout way.

"Brooklyn" is a Dutch toponym, less roundaboutly.

So is even "The Bronx."

On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 7:26:21 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:

> > Our Presidents are only numbered when we refer to them as part of
> > the sequence. Martin Van Buren is still known as a President of
> > the United States without noting he was the 8th. Henry is always
> > Henry VIII.
>
> You do have Bush I and Bush II.

Not any more so than Adams I and Adams II (father-son) or
Harrison I and Harrison II (grandfather-grandson) or Johnson
I and Johnson II (unrelated).

On Sat, 7 May 2022 07:09:31 -0400, CDB <bellemarecd@gmail.com> wrote:

>I once had to write a letter to one "Jean Royce", and didn't know how to
>address em.

Did you consider "Dear Them"?

On Sat, 7 May 2022 07:26:14 -0400, CDB <bellemarecd@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 5/7/2022 12:37 AM, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>> Tony Cooper wrote:
>>>> Quinn C <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>
>>>>> For example, it's advisable to learn all the US presidents
>>>>> with their number - not knowledge of "worldwide" importance
>>>>> (that you number your presidents at all is a unique quirk.)
>
>>>> Unique quirk? Scanning a list of kings and queens numbering
>>>> seems quite prevalent. Only the sequence differs.
>
>>> That's a different kind of numbering. Henry VIII was not the eighth
>>> king of England. He was only the eighth one to be named Henry.
>
>> I do know that, but the statement was that we number our presidents,
>> and associating a number with a ruler is not unique to the US.
>
>> Our Presidents are only numbered when we refer to them as part of
>> the sequence. Martin Van Buren is still known as a President of
>> the United States without noting he was the 8th. Henry is always
>> Henry VIII.
>
>You do have Bush I and Bush II.

Yes, but I've never or heard them referred to that way.

The same is true of John Adams and John Quincy Adams. I've never or
heard them referred to as Adams I and Adams II.

Or Johnson ! and Johnson II, for that matter.

On Sat, 7 May 2022 12:25:48 +1000, Peter Moylan
<peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

>On 07/05/22 07:59, Ken Blake wrote:
>> On Fri, 6 May 2022 17:27:24 -0400, Quinn C
>> <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>>
>>> * Peter T. Daniels:
>>>
>>>> Yesterday was very sad indeed. "I've never seen Citizen Kane." Is
>>>> that really necessary, to know that Xanadu was involved? She's
>>>> probably never seen GwtW either, but wouldn't she recognize
>>>> Scarlett O'Hara, Rhett Butler, or even Tara?
>>>>
>>>> How many of today's generations have never seen the classic films
>>>> -- especially the ones that aren't in color?
>>>
>>> I've never seen Citizen Kane, nor did I remember clearly about
>>> Xanadu,
>>
>> So never did you your stately pleasure domes decree?
>
>You are quoting from English literature. There's no reason to think that
>Quinn would ever have encountered Alf, the sacred river.

I've also never encountered Alph, nor any other sacred river.

* Peter T. Daniels:

> On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 5:27:28 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
>> * Peter T. Daniels:
>>> On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 9:29:01 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:
>>>> On 5/5/2022 11:41 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>>>> Quinn C wrote:
>>>>>> Peter T. Daniels:
>>>>>>> Quinn C wrote:
>>>>>>>> Ruud Harmsen:
>>>>>>>>> "Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:
>
>>>>>>>>>> They were also very fond of Locke. Mattea would know.
>>>>>>>>> Incomprehensible, irrelevant and uncalled for reaction. Who
>>>>>>>>> is Locke? Who is Mattea?
>>>>>>>> If you don't even know who Locke is (or Berkeley or Hobbes),
>>>>>>>> you won't win in Jeopardy against Mattea Roach, who's currently
>>>>>>>> on a winning streak, one of the biggest in history, again
>>>>>>>> (there were two of those quite recently).
>>>>>>> Last night Ken all but apologized for the "gimme" Final
>>>>>>> Question, using the excuse that the questions were written months
>>>>>>> ago and used randomly. Would that have prevented them from
>>>>>>> removing one that consisted of nothing but recognizing the second
>>>>>>> line of "O Canada"?
>>>>>> Any intervention that takes the candidates into account introduces
>>>>>> subjectivity and thus unfairness.
>>>>> There have been an awful lot of questions in the last few weeks
>>>>> pertaining specifically to Canada. Someone's thumb seems to be on the
>>>>> scale.
>>>> Alex Trebek used to make sure there were questions about Canada in the
>>>> mix (embarrassingly few of them got more than blank looks). They may do
>>>> this in memory of him.
>>> Did he ensure there would be Midwest questions when a Chicago
>>> candidate was on?
>>
>> The claim was that Canadian questions were included at all times, not
>> when Canadian candidates are on, which would be skewing the results.
>>
>> It's reasonable to have some Canadian contents when Canadians are
>> allowed to enter, while being disadvantaged in many other questions.
>> IIRC, before Mattea, no Canadian had managed to win 5 times.
>
> Few anythings ever had.
>
> (In the olden days, there was a maximum of five appearances,
> as on many game shows.

You with your ancient history again. I didn't even technically have a
chance to watch it before 2004, and did so only occasionally for most of
that time.

58 candidates have won 6 times or more at this point - so all of these
were after the rule change. And the first 57 of them weren't Canadian.
Add to that 100 or 200 that won exactly 5 games.

--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)

* Janet:

> In article <n6ucmvwp036z.dlg@mid.crommatograph.info>,
> lispamateur@crommatograph.info says...
>>
>> * Ken Blake:
>>
>>> On Fri, 6 May 2022 17:27:24 -0400, Quinn C
>>> <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>>>
>>>>* Peter T. Daniels:
>>>>
>>>>> Yesterday was very sad indeed. "I've never seen Citizen Kane." Is that
>>>>> really necessary, to know that Xanadu was involved? She's probably
>>>>> never seen GwtW either, but wouldn't she recognize Scarlett O'Hara,
>>>>> Rhett Butler, or even Tara?
>>>>>
>>>>> How many of today's generations have never seen the classic films --
>>>>> especially the ones that aren't in color?
>>>>
>>>>I've never seen Citizen Kane, nor did I remember clearly about Xanadu,
>>>
>>> So never did you your stately pleasure domes decree?
>>
>> I don't even understand what "decree" means in this sentence.
>
> In Xanadu did Kubla Khan
> A stately pleasure-dome decree:
> Where Alph, the sacred river, ran
> Through caverns measureless to man
> Down to a sunless sea.
> So twice five miles of fertile ground
> With walls and towers were girdled round;
> And there were gardens bright with sinuous rills,
> Where blossomed many an incense-bearing tree;
> And here were forests ancient as the hills,
> Enfolding sunny spots of greenery.
>
> (written by Samuel Coleridge under the influence of opium)

So I gather he decreed that a pleasure dome be built.

> Quinn might have come across Coleridge's connection with German
> philosophy

I haven't, even though he studied at my university, Göttingen. Maybe
there's even a plate somewhere in town "Coleridge lived here"? There
were a lot of those, but I don't remember, and know practically nothing
about him.

Yes, there is a plate:
<https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:G%C3%B6ttinger_Gedenktafel_-_Coleridge,_Samuel_Taylor.jpg>

--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)

* Peter T. Daniels:

> On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 5:27:27 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
>
>> Someone preparing for Jeopardy has to take into account that it is an
>> American show and should beef up their knowledge of US-specific things.
>> For example, it's advisable to learn all the US presidents with their
>> number - not knowledge of "worldwide" importance (that you number your
>> presidents at all is a unique quirk.)
>
> We don't, actually. It became salient only with 41 and 43 because they
> had almost exactly the same name and the second one isn't a Junior.
>
> The National Archives had to figure out how to count Cleveland, not
> all that long ago..
>
> As the guy said, he only knew Harding because Coolidge's number
> had been given in the previous question.

So Mattea's a guy now (nobody else gave any answer in that category)!

Those clues, again, were quite cryptic for non-Americans. I wouldn't
know slogans of US presidential campaigns before my lifetime (even
German ones only exceptionally), and Teapot Dome isn't remotely as
famous as Watergate at this point.

--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)

* Peter T. Daniels:

> On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 5:27:28 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
>> * Peter T. Daniels:
>>> On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 10:44:33 AM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
>>>> * Peter T. Daniels:
>>>>> On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 6:05:00 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
>
>>>>>> I've read the name "Antietam" before, but didn't know the pronunciation,
>>>>>> so couldn't identify it as a rhyme of "beat 'em" (I gave it four
>>>>>> syllables in my mind).
>>>>> Oh, you're so German.
>>>> What makes you say that? I decided *not* to read the "tie" as in German,
>>>> but that's what you do, actually.
>>> Presumably it's Algonquian.
>>> How would that name be read if it were German?
>>
>> [anti:tam]
>
> How would you give it four syllables?

I was guessing [&n.'ti.@.ˌt&m], but was open to <ti> being [taI] as
well.

> You didn't mark the stress.

That's difficult to guess in a name, but [an'ti:tam] seems most natural.
In non-stressed syllables, length gets neutralized in German.

--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)

In article <e35d7h500cmihae56d3avl4rq8bvtd0ess@4ax.com>,
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 7 May 2022 12:25:48 +1000, Peter Moylan
> <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

> >On 07/05/22 07:59, Ken Blake wrote:
> >> On Fri, 6 May 2022 17:27:24 -0400, Quinn C
> >> <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:
> >>
> >>> * Peter T. Daniels:
> >>>
> >>>> Yesterday was very sad indeed. "I've never seen Citizen Kane." Is
> >>>> that really necessary, to know that Xanadu was involved? She's
> >>>> probably never seen GwtW either, but wouldn't she recognize
> >>>> Scarlett O'Hara, Rhett Butler, or even Tara?
> >>>>
> >>>> How many of today's generations have never seen the classic films
> >>>> -- especially the ones that aren't in color?
> >>>
> >>> I've never seen Citizen Kane, nor did I remember clearly about
> >>> Xanadu,
> >>
> >> So never did you your stately pleasure domes decree?
> >
> >You are quoting from English literature. There's no reason to think that
> >Quinn would ever have encountered Alf, the sacred river.

> I've also never encountered Alph, nor any other sacred river.

perhaps you need to take opium to discover it.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On Sat, 07 May 2022 16:58:59 +0100, charles <charles@candehope.me.uk>
wrote:

>In article <e35d7h500cmihae56d3avl4rq8bvtd0ess@4ax.com>,
> Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 7 May 2022 12:25:48 +1000, Peter Moylan
>> <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>
>> >On 07/05/22 07:59, Ken Blake wrote:
>> >> On Fri, 6 May 2022 17:27:24 -0400, Quinn C
>> >> <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> * Peter T. Daniels:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Yesterday was very sad indeed. "I've never seen Citizen Kane." Is
>> >>>> that really necessary, to know that Xanadu was involved? She's
>> >>>> probably never seen GwtW either, but wouldn't she recognize
>> >>>> Scarlett O'Hara, Rhett Butler, or even Tara?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> How many of today's generations have never seen the classic films
>> >>>> -- especially the ones that aren't in color?
>> >>>
>> >>> I've never seen Citizen Kane, nor did I remember clearly about
>> >>> Xanadu,
>> >>
>> >> So never did you your stately pleasure domes decree?
>> >
>> >You are quoting from English literature. There's no reason to think that
>> >Quinn would ever have encountered Alf, the sacred river.
>
>
>> I've also never encountered Alph, nor any other sacred river.
>
>perhaps you need to take opium to discover it.

Perhaps, but if so, that's the reason I never will.

On 2022-05-07 05:37, CDB wrote:
> On 5/6/2022 10:40 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> CDB wrote:
>>> Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>>> Quinn C wrote:
>>>>> Peter T. Daniels:
>>>>>> Quinn C wrote:
>>>>>>> Ruud Harmsen:
>>>>>>>> "Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:
>
>>>>>>>>> They were also very fond of Locke. Mattea would know.
>>>>>>>> Incomprehensible, irrelevant and uncalled for reaction.
>>>>>>>> Who is Locke? Who is Mattea?
>>>>>>> If you don't even know who Locke is (or Berkeley or
>>>>>>> Hobbes), you won't win in Jeopardy against Mattea Roach,
>>>>>>> who's currently on a winning streak, one of the biggest in
>>>>>>> history, again (there were two of those quite recently).
>>>>>> Last night Ken all but apologized for the "gimme" Final Question,
>>>>>> using the excuse that the questions were written
>>>>>> months ago and used randomly. Would that have prevented them
>>>>>> from removing one that consisted of nothing but recognizing
>>>>>> the second line of "O Canada"?
>
>>>>> Any intervention that takes the candidates into account
>>>>> introduces subjectivity and thus unfairness.
>
>>>> There have been an awful lot of questions in the last few weeks
>>>> pertaining specifically to Canada. Someone's thumb seems to be on
>>>> the scale.
>
>>> Alex Trebek used to make sure there were questions about Canada in
>>> the mix (embarrassingly few of them got more than blank looks).
>>> They may do this in memory of him.
>
>> Did he ensure there would be Midwest questions when a Chicago
>> candidate was on?
>
> I don't think I suggested that he would arrange Canadian questions for
> Canadian contestants.  My mention of blank-faced reactions seems to me
> to rule that out.
>
>>>> They seem to believe that long streaks are good for ratings, but
>>>> in fact they're boring. It was shocking last night that no one
>>>> knew (NASA shmASA) that Apollo's twin sister is Artemis, or who
>>>> Peter Stuyvesant was (never mind the portrait, "handed NY over to
>>>> the Brits" was enough).
>
>>> Artemis was also called Selene, which would have been a good guess
>>> for a moonshot.
>
>> Though it's not the name of the new lunar exploration program.
>
> My remark addressed the idea that the contestants were shockingly
> ignorant of the name of Apollo's sister.  I doubt that they all were,
> but they may have faced an embarrassment of choice, as my
> formerly-siggish comment pointed out below.

Shockingly? Did you study Greek, Roman, and/or Norse mythology in your
school years? I sure didn't.

As for Peter Stuyvesant, only a self-centred boor that thinks the world
revolves around an eastern US state would expect every Canadian to know
anything at all about him.

>>> Tu potens Trivia et notho es/ dicta lumine Luna.
>
>>> You [Diana] are powerful Trivia [Hecate] and, for your bastard
>>> light, are [called] Luna.
>

On 2022-05-07, Janet wrote:

> In article <n6ucmvwp036z.dlg@mid.crommatograph.info>,
> lispamateur@crommatograph.info says...
>>
>> * Ken Blake:
>>
>> > On Fri, 6 May 2022 17:27:24 -0400, Quinn C
>> > <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>> >
>> >>* Peter T. Daniels:
>> >>
>> >>> Yesterday was very sad indeed. "I've never seen Citizen Kane." Is that
>> >>> really necessary, to know that Xanadu was involved? She's probably
>> >>> never seen GwtW either, but wouldn't she recognize Scarlett O'Hara,
>> >>> Rhett Butler, or even Tara?
>> >>>
>> >>> How many of today's generations have never seen the classic films --
>> >>> especially the ones that aren't in color?
>> >>
>> >>I've never seen Citizen Kane, nor did I remember clearly about Xanadu,
>> >
>> > So never did you your stately pleasure domes decree?
>>
>> I don't even understand what "decree" means in this sentence.
>
> In Xanadu did Kubla Khan
> A stately pleasure-dome decree:
> Where Alph, the sacred river, ran
> Through caverns measureless to man
> Down to a sunless sea.
> So twice five miles of fertile ground
> With walls and towers were girdled round;
> And there were gardens bright with sinuous rills,
> Where blossomed many an incense-bearing tree;
> And here were forests ancient as the hills,
> Enfolding sunny spots of greenery.
>
> (written by Samuel Coleridge under the influence of opium)
>
> Quinn might have come across Coleridge's connection with German
> philosophy

Then there's a different one by Olivia Newton-John & the Electric
Light Orchestra.

--
While outside on the turnpike
They got this new hit tune
Thrills become as cheap as gas
And gas as cheap as thrills

On 2022-05-07 09:47, Ken Blake wrote:
> On Sat, 7 May 2022 12:25:48 +1000, Peter Moylan
> <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 07/05/22 07:59, Ken Blake wrote:
>>> On Fri, 6 May 2022 17:27:24 -0400, Quinn C
>>> <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>>>
>>>> * Peter T. Daniels:
>>>>
>>>>> Yesterday was very sad indeed. "I've never seen Citizen Kane." Is
>>>>> that really necessary, to know that Xanadu was involved? She's
>>>>> probably never seen GwtW either, but wouldn't she recognize
>>>>> Scarlett O'Hara, Rhett Butler, or even Tara?
>>>>>
>>>>> How many of today's generations have never seen the classic films
>>>>> -- especially the ones that aren't in color?
>>>>
>>>> I've never seen Citizen Kane, nor did I remember clearly about
>>>> Xanadu,
>>>
>>> So never did you your stately pleasure domes decree?
>>
>> You are quoting from English literature. There's no reason to think that
>> Quinn would ever have encountered Alf, the sacred river.
>
>
> I've also never encountered Alph, nor any other sacred river.

I knew the answer to that one, but only because it's probably among my
top 5 favourite poems.

On 2022-05-07, Peter Moylan wrote:

> On 07/05/22 08:38, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> On Fri, 6 May 2022 17:27:24 -0400, Quinn C
>> <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>
>>> For example, it's advisable to learn all the US presidents with
>>> their number - not knowledge of "worldwide" importance (that you
>>> number your presidents at all is a unique quirk.)
>>
>> Unique quirk? Scanning a list of kings and queens numbering seems
>> quite prevalent. Only the sequence differs.
>
> That's a different kind of numbering. Henry VIII was not the eighth king
> of England. He was only the eighth one to be named Henry.

And the numbering ignores everyone before William the Conqueror (AKA
William the Bastard), e.g., Edward I (c.13) even though Edward the
Elder (c.9) & Edward the Confessor (c.11) had also been kings of
England (with varying territories).

> Australia's Prime Minister is our Nth Prime Minister, but very few
> Australians would be able to tell you the value of N. It's not seen as
> something worth remembering.
>

--
really don't mind
if you sit this one out