On Thursday, March 3, 2022 at 4:55:30 PM UTC-5, John H wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 13:28:11 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:
>
> >gfre...@aol.com Wrote in message:r
> >> On Thu, 03 Mar 2022 12:35:09 -0500, John H <jher...@cox.net> wrote:>On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>>wrote:>>>On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>> >>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since I don?t think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw>>>>>>>> at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the>>>>>>>> transformers at lots of major power substations. Then mine bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as>>>>>>>> how long is
> >the cyber computers going to be able to run on auxiliary power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much>>>>>>> like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the>>>>>>> technology they can bring to bear.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the modern technology, I don?t think Russia would do well. They may>>>>>> not depend on the internet as much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How>>>>>> much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?>>>>>>>>>> I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and>>>>> underestimating the resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they lived>>>>> the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the
> >hard way. They may>>>>> have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the>>>>> Eastern regions, that would willingly go back to being Russia, be>>>>> allowed to, this whole thing might have been unnecessary. It is the>>>>> likely outcome anyway.>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don?t think it would take too many assets to bring Russia or the USA to a>>>> halt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power stations. How many>>>> spares are a available, and how long to build replacements? A few bridges>>>> taken out. Look how much havoc the San Francisco Bay taken out in the>>>> Loma Prieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people with a couple semi?s worth of explosives.>>> >>> You do not want to test the resolve of the second most powerful>>>
> >military in the world by attacking their homeland. A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2 buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still do not have a good count of how many people died.>>>>>>I realize your post is a few days old but based on the Russian military>>'s performance so far in Ukraine, it sure doesn't seem to be of the>>same caliber it was years ago. Several former US generals on the>>various cable networks all agree. Russia's invasion has been a>>clusterfuck so far. Munition malfunctions, logistical problems>>and a bunch of young conscripts who didn't even know why they were>>there.>>>>It's too bad the nuke issue hangs over this. I think US and NATO forces>>could make mincemeat of the 40 mile long line of Russian tanks, missile >>launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks, all lined up three abreast>>for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would probably due the trick.>>I wonder
> if
> >his nuclear threat would work if he attacks Poland. The US has troops in Poland. I doubt he wants that confrontation forthe same reason we don't.
> >
> >Russians are destroying their own equipment. And there is a seven
> > figure pricetag on Putin's head courtesy of a Russian
> > billionaire. There is a 550 foot Russian yacht that the Germans
> > confiscated. Russian soldiers are refusing to go on missions.
> > There aren't too many countrys that Putin can fly over. Biden
> > ought to jump on the bandwagon and get our oil production back on
> > line. Or, we could enlist SealTeam B to solve the
> > problem
> In the meantime much of Ukraine is getting flattened. Damn shame. I
> wish we could do something. Can't believe Biden is still buying oil
> from the fucker.

==
We don't need Russian oil in this country. It must be going somewhere else..

On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 20:15:04 -0800 (PST),
"waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com" <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, March 3, 2022 at 4:55:30 PM UTC-5, John H wrote:
>> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 13:28:11 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:
>>
>> >gfre...@aol.com Wrote in message:r
>> >> On Thu, 03 Mar 2022 12:35:09 -0500, John H <jher...@cox.net> wrote:>On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>>wrote:>>>On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>> >>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since I don?t think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw>>>>>>>> at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the>>>>>>>> transformers at lots of major power substations. Then mine bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as>>>>>>>> how long is
>> >the cyber computers going to be able to run on auxiliary power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much>>>>>>> like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the>>>>>>> technology they can bring to bear.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the modern technology, I don?t think Russia would do well. They may>>>>>> not depend on the internet as much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How>>>>>> much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?>>>>>>>>>> I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and>>>>> underestimating the resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they lived>>>>> the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the
>> >hard way. They may>>>>> have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the>>>>> Eastern regions, that would willingly go back to being Russia, be>>>>> allowed to, this whole thing might have been unnecessary. It is the>>>>> likely outcome anyway.>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don?t think it would take too many assets to bring Russia or the USA to a>>>> halt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power stations. How many>>>> spares are a available, and how long to build replacements? A few bridges>>>> taken out. Look how much havoc the San Francisco Bay taken out in the>>>> Loma Prieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people with a couple semi?s worth of explosives.>>> >>> You do not want to test the resolve of the second most powerful>>>
>> >military in the world by attacking their homeland. A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2 buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still do not have a good count of how many people died.>>>>>>I realize your post is a few days old but based on the Russian military>>'s performance so far in Ukraine, it sure doesn't seem to be of the>>same caliber it was years ago. Several former US generals on the>>various cable networks all agree. Russia's invasion has been a>>clusterfuck so far. Munition malfunctions, logistical problems>>and a bunch of young conscripts who didn't even know why they were>>there.>>>>It's too bad the nuke issue hangs over this. I think US and NATO forces>>could make mincemeat of the 40 mile long line of Russian tanks, missile >>launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks, all lined up three abreast>>for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would probably due the trick.>>I wonder
>> if
>> >his nuclear threat would work if he attacks Poland. The US has troops in Poland. I doubt he wants that confrontation forthe same reason we don't.
>> >
>> >Russians are destroying their own equipment. And there is a seven
>> > figure pricetag on Putin's head courtesy of a Russian
>> > billionaire. There is a 550 foot Russian yacht that the Germans
>> > confiscated. Russian soldiers are refusing to go on missions.
>> > There aren't too many countrys that Putin can fly over. Biden
>> > ought to jump on the bandwagon and get our oil production back on
>> > line. Or, we could enlist SealTeam B to solve the
>> > problem
>> In the meantime much of Ukraine is getting flattened. Damn shame. I
>> wish we could do something. Can't believe Biden is still buying oil
>> from the fucker.
>
>===
>
>We don't need Russian oil in this country. It must be going somewhere else.

Your buddy, Pelosi, seems to disagree.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/mar/3/pelosi-backs-banning-russian-oil-imports-adds-pres/

Although, I'd go along with your first sentence.

"Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com> Wrote in message:r
> On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>> <gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>> <califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>>> <califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since I don?t think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw>>>>>>>> at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the>>>>>>>> transformers at lots of major power substations. Then mine bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as>>>>>>>> how long is the cyber computers going to be able to run on auxiliary power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on>>
>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much>>>>>>> like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the>>>>>>> technology they can bring to bear.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the modern technology, I don?t think Russia would do well. They may>>>>>> not depend on the internet as much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How>>>>>> much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?>>>>>>>>>> I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and>>>>> underestimating the resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they lived>>>>> the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They may>>>>> have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the>>>>> Eastern regions, that would willingly go back to being Russia, be>>>>> allowed to, this whole thing might have been unnecessar
y. It is the>>>>> likely outcome anyway.>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don?t think it would take too many assets to bring Russia or the USA to a>>>> halt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power stations. How many>>>> spares are a available, and how long to build replacements? A few bridges>>>> taken out. Look how much havoc the San Francisco Bay taken out in the>>>> Loma Prieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people with a couple semi?s worth of explosives.>>>>>> You do not want to test the resolve of the second most powerful>>> military in the world by attacking their homeland. A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2 buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still do not have a good count of how many people died.>>>>>> I realize your post is a few days old but based on the Russian military>> 's performance so far in Ukraine, it sure doesn't seem to be of the>> same caliber it was years ago. Several former US generals on the>> various cable networks all agree. Russia's invasion has been a>> clusterfuck so far. Munition malfunctions, logistical problems>> an
d a bunch of young conscripts who didn't even know why they were>> there.>>>> It's too bad the nuke issue hangs over this. I think US and NATO forces>> could make mincemeat of the 40 mile long line of Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks, all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would probably due the trick.> > No doubt they are fighting a "3d world" style war, assuming there is> no real opposition other than small arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian soldiers are not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we really don't want to see an effective> attack on Russian soil. That might be what it takes to turn them into> an army out for revenge. Right now I doubt Putin is doing a very good> job in selling this war to his citizens. On the bright side, the big > money in Russia may be the ones to stop this and knock a little shine> off of Putin. I still bet he keeps the Donbass area.> .I think the Russian civilian population is experiencing a similarenlightenment that the US civilian population experienced startingin the mid 60's with the war in Vietnam.Post Soviet Russia is not the same as it was prior
to 1991.Capitalism has flourished. The Internet exists. Social Mediais available. A new generation of Russians exist with accessto information about the world beyond their borders.Putin is a hold over from the Soviet days. He doesn't use theInternet. He doesn't even live in the Kremlin ... and hasn'tfor years. He lives in a "palace" built for him back in 2005in a very controversial "business" arrangement with a wealthyRussian ally. He's out of touch and not living in the worldof 2022.Ultimately I think the Russian people will be the cause ofhis downfall. I also think that eventually the same may betrue in China.If you keep your citizens like mushrooms ... living in darkcaves and feeding them bullshit you can maintain power. Butonce the sunlight starts to illuminate what is around them,the revolts begin.-- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.https://www.avg.com

Someone should start a go fund me to finance Putins removal
--
Thanks Donald. Do you miss him yet?

----Android NewsGroup Reader----
https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html

On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <me@here.com> wrote:

>"Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com> Wrote in message:r
>> On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>> <gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>> <califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>>> <califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since I don?t think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw>>>>>>>> at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the>>>>>>>> transformers at lots of major power substations. Then mine bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as>>>>>>>> how long is the cyber
computers
>going to be able to run on auxiliary power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much>>>>>>> like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the>>>>>>> technology they can bring to bear.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the modern technology, I don?t think Russia would do well. They may>>>>>> not depend on the internet as much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How>>>>>> much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?>>>>>>>>>> I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and>>>>> underestimating the resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they lived>>>>> the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They
may>>>>>
>have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the>>>>> Eastern regions, that would willingly go back to being Russia, be>>>>> allowed to, this whole thing might have been unnecessary. It is the>>>>> likely outcome anyway.>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don?t think it would take too many assets to bring Russia or the USA to a>>>> halt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power stations. How many>>>> spares are a available, and how long to build replacements? A few bridges>>>> taken out. Look how much havoc the San Francisco Bay taken out in the>>>> Loma Prieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people with a couple semi?s worth of explosives.>>>>>> You do not want to test the resolve of the second most powerful>>> military in the world by
>attacking their homeland. A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2 buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still do not have a good count of how many people died.>>>>>> I realize your post is a few days old but based on the Russian military>> 's performance so far in Ukraine, it sure doesn't seem to be of the>> same caliber it was years ago. Several former US generals on the>> various cable networks all agree. Russia's invasion has been a>> clusterfuck so far. Munition malfunctions, logistical problems>> and a bunch of young conscripts who didn't even know why they were>> there.>>>> It's too bad the nuke issue hangs over this. I think US and NATO forces>> could make mincemeat of the 40 mile long line of Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks, all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would probably due the trick.> > No doubt they are
>fighting a "3d world" style war, assuming there is> no real opposition other than small arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian soldiers are not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we really don't want to see an effective> attack on Russian soil. That might be what it takes to turn them into> an army out for revenge. Right now I doubt Putin is doing a very good> job in selling this war to his citizens. On the bright side, the big > money in Russia may be the ones to stop this and knock a little shine> off of Putin. I still bet he keeps the Donbass area.> .I think the Russian civilian population is experiencing a similarenlightenment that the US civilian population experienced startingin the mid 60's with the war in Vietnam.Post Soviet Russia is not the same as it was prior to 1991.Capitalism has flourished. The Internet exists. Social Mediais available. A new generation of Russians exist with accessto information about the world beyond their
>borders.Putin is a hold over from the Soviet days. He doesn't use theInternet. He doesn't even live in the Kremlin ... and hasn'tfor years. He lives in a "palace" built for him back in 2005in a very controversial "business" arrangement with a wealthyRussian ally. He's out of touch and not living in the worldof 2022.Ultimately I think the Russian people will be the cause ofhis downfall. I also think that eventually the same may betrue in China.If you keep your citizens like mushrooms ... living in darkcaves and feeding them bullshit you can maintain power. Butonce the sunlight starts to illuminate what is around them,the revolts begin.-- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.https://www.avg.com
>
>Someone should start a go fund me to finance Putins removal

Some oligarch in CA offered $1M. Hell, I'd contribute.

On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 8:41:21 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:
> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:
>
> >"Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r
> >> On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since I don?t think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw>>>>>>>> at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the>>>>>>>> transformers at lots of major power substations. Then mine bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as>>>>>>>> how long is the cyber
> computers
> >going to be able to run on auxiliary power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much>>>>>>> like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the>>>>>>> technology they can bring to bear.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the modern technology, I don?t think Russia would do well. They may>>>>>> not depend on the internet as much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How>>>>>> much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?>>>>>>>>>> I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and>>>>> underestimating the resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they lived>>>>> the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They
> may>>>>>
> >have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the>>>>> Eastern regions, that would willingly go back to being Russia, be>>>>> allowed to, this whole thing might have been unnecessary. It is the>>>>> likely outcome anyway.>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don?t think it would take too many assets to bring Russia or the USA to a>>>> halt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power stations. How many>>>> spares are a available, and how long to build replacements? A few bridges>>>> taken out. Look how much havoc the San Francisco Bay taken out in the>>>> Loma Prieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people with a couple semi?s worth of explosives.>>>>>> You do not want to test the resolve of the second most powerful>>> military in the world by
> >attacking their homeland. A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2 buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still do not have a good count of how many people died.>>>>>> I realize your post is a few days old but based on the Russian military>> 's performance so far in Ukraine, it sure doesn't seem to be of the>> same caliber it was years ago. Several former US generals on the>> various cable networks all agree. Russia's invasion has been a>> clusterfuck so far. Munition malfunctions, logistical problems>> and a bunch of young conscripts who didn't even know why they were>> there.>>>> It's too bad the nuke issue hangs over this. I think US and NATO forces>> could make mincemeat of the 40 mile long line of Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks, all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would probably due the trick.> > No doubt they are
> >fighting a "3d world" style war, assuming there is> no real opposition other than small arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian soldiers are not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we really don't want to see an effective> attack on Russian soil. That might be what it takes to turn them into> an army out for revenge. Right now I doubt Putin is doing a very good> job in selling this war to his citizens. On the bright side, the big > money in Russia may be the ones to stop this and knock a little shine> off of Putin. I still bet he keeps the Donbass area.> .I think the Russian civilian population is experiencing a similarenlightenment that the US civilian population experienced startingin the mid 60's with the war in Vietnam.Post Soviet Russia is not the same as it was prior to 1991.Capitalism has flourished. The Internet exists. Social Mediais available. A new generation of Russians exist with accessto information about the world beyond their
> >borders.Putin is a hold over from the Soviet days. He doesn't use theInternet. He doesn't even live in the Kremlin ... and hasn'tfor years. He lives in a "palace" built for him back in 2005in a very controversial "business" arrangement with a wealthyRussian ally. He's out of touch and not living in the worldof 2022.Ultimately I think the Russian people will be the cause ofhis downfall. I also think that eventually the same may betrue in China.If you keep your citizens like mushrooms ... living in darkcaves and feeding them bullshit you can maintain power. Butonce the sunlight starts to illuminate what is around them,the revolts begin.-- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.https://www.avg.com
> >
> >Someone should start a go fund me to finance Putins removal
> Some oligarch in CA offered $1M. Hell, I'd contribute.

==
Based on recent photos of Putin's very long conference room table, I'd say that he is practicing extreme social distancing.

"waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com" <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com>
Wrote in message:r
> On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 8:41:21 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote: > > >"Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r > >> On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since I don?t think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw>>>>>>>> at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the>>>>>>>> transformers at lots of major power substations. Then mine bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as>>>>>>>> how long is the cyber > computers > >going to be able to run on auxiliar
y power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much>>>>>>> like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the>>>>>>> technology they can bring to bear.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the modern technology, I don?t think Russia would do well. They may>>>>>> not depend on the internet as much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How>>>>>> much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?>>>>>>>>>> I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and>>>>> underestimating the resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they lived>>>>> the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They > may>>>>> > >have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just m
ade some kind of agrement that the>>>>> Eastern regions, that would willingly go back to being Russia, be>>>>> allowed to, this whole thing might have been unnecessary. It is the>>>>> likely outcome anyway.>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don?t think it would take too many assets to bring Russia or the USA to a>>>> halt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power stations. How many>>>> spares are a available, and how long to build replacements? A few bridges>>>> taken out. Look how much havoc the San Francisco Bay taken out in the>>>> Loma Prieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people with a couple semi?s worth of explosives.>>>>>> You do not want to test the resolve of the second most powerful>>> military in the world by > >attacking their homeland. A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2 buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still do not have a good count of how many people died.>>>>>> I realize your post is a few days old but based on the Russian military>> 's performance so far in Ukraine, it sure doesn't seem to be of the>> same caliber it was years ago. Several fo
rmer US generals on the>> various cable networks all agree. Russia's invasion has been a>> clusterfuck so far. Munition malfunctions, logistical problems>> and a bunch of young conscripts who didn't even know why they were>> there.>>>> It's too bad the nuke issue hangs over this. I think US and NATO forces>> could make mincemeat of the 40 mile long line of Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks, all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would probably due the trick.> > No doubt they are > >fighting a "3d world" style war, assuming there is> no real opposition other than small arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian soldiers are not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we really don't want to see an effective> attack on Russian soil. That might be what it takes to turn them into> an army out for revenge. Right now I doubt Putin is doing a very good> job in selling this war to his citizens. On the bright side, the big > money in Russia may be the ones to stop this and knock a little shine> off of Putin. I still bet he keeps the Donbass area.> .I think the Russian civilian population is experiencing a simila
renlightenment that the US civilian population experienced startingin the mid 60's with the war in Vietnam.Post Soviet Russia is not the same as it was prior to 1991.Capitalism has flourished. The Internet exists. Social Mediais available. A new generation of Russians exist with accessto information about the world beyond their > >borders.Putin is a hold over from the Soviet days. He doesn't use theInternet. He doesn't even live in the Kremlin ... and hasn'tfor years. He lives in a "palace" built for him back in 2005in a very controversial "business" arrangement with a wealthyRussian ally. He's out of touch and not living in the worldof 2022.Ultimately I think the Russian people will be the cause ofhis downfall. I also think that eventually the same may betrue in China.If you keep your citizens like mushrooms ... living in darkcaves and feeding them bullshit you can maintain power. Butonce the sunlight starts to illuminate what is around them,the revolts begin.-- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.https://www.avg.com > > > >Someone should start a go fund me to finance Putins removal> Some oligarch in CA offered $1M. Hell, I'd contribute.===Based on recent photos of Put
in's very long conference room table, I'd say that he is practicing extreme social distancing.

We have sharp shooters who can handle up to a mile or more who
could dot an eye.
--
Thanks Donald. Do you miss him yet?

----Android NewsGroup Reader----
https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html

On Friday, 4 March 2022 at 12:03:01 UTC-4, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 8:41:21 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:
> > On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:
> >
> > >"Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r
> > >> On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail..com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since I don?t think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw>>>>>>>> at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the>>>>>>>> transformers at lots of major power substations. Then mine bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as>>>>>>>> how long is the cyber
> > computers
> > >going to be able to run on auxiliary power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much>>>>>>> like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the>>>>>>> technology they can bring to bear.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the modern technology, I don?t think Russia would do well. They may>>>>>> not depend on the internet as much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How>>>>>> much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?>>>>>>>>>> I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and>>>>> underestimating the resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they lived>>>>> the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They
> > may>>>>>
> > >have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the>>>>> Eastern regions, that would willingly go back to being Russia, be>>>>> allowed to, this whole thing might have been unnecessary. It is the>>>>> likely outcome anyway.>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don?t think it would take too many assets to bring Russia or the USA to a>>>> halt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power stations. How many>>>> spares are a available, and how long to build replacements? A few bridges>>>> taken out. Look how much havoc the San Francisco Bay taken out in the>>>> Loma Prieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people with a couple semi?s worth of explosives.>>>>>> You do not want to test the resolve of the second most powerful>>> military in the world by
> > >attacking their homeland. A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2 buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still do not have a good count of how many people died.>>>>>> I realize your post is a few days old but based on the Russian military>> 's performance so far in Ukraine, it sure doesn't seem to be of the>> same caliber it was years ago. Several former US generals on the>> various cable networks all agree. Russia's invasion has been a>> clusterfuck so far. Munition malfunctions, logistical problems>> and a bunch of young conscripts who didn't even know why they were>> there.>>>> It's too bad the nuke issue hangs over this. I think US and NATO forces>> could make mincemeat of the 40 mile long line of Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks, all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would probably due the trick.> > No doubt they are
> > >fighting a "3d world" style war, assuming there is> no real opposition other than small arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian soldiers are not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we really don't want to see an effective> attack on Russian soil. That might be what it takes to turn them into> an army out for revenge. Right now I doubt Putin is doing a very good> job in selling this war to his citizens. On the bright side, the big > money in Russia may be the ones to stop this and knock a little shine> off of Putin. I still bet he keeps the Donbass area.> .I think the Russian civilian population is experiencing a similarenlightenment that the US civilian population experienced startingin the mid 60's with the war in Vietnam.Post Soviet Russia is not the same as it was prior to 1991.Capitalism has flourished. The Internet exists. Social Mediais available. A new generation of Russians exist with accessto information about the world beyond their
> > >borders.Putin is a hold over from the Soviet days. He doesn't use theInternet. He doesn't even live in the Kremlin ... and hasn'tfor years. He lives in a "palace" built for him back in 2005in a very controversial "business" arrangement with a wealthyRussian ally. He's out of touch and not living in the worldof 2022.Ultimately I think the Russian people will be the cause ofhis downfall. I also think that eventually the same may betrue in China.If you keep your citizens like mushrooms ... living in darkcaves and feeding them bullshit you can maintain power. Butonce the sunlight starts to illuminate what is around them,the revolts begin.-- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.https://www.avg.com
> > >
> > >Someone should start a go fund me to finance Putins removal
> > Some oligarch in CA offered $1M. Hell, I'd contribute.
> ===
>
> Based on recent photos of Putin's very long conference room table, I'd say that he is practicing extreme social distancing.

Seeing those photos and videos of Putin's long tables makes me wonder if he's thinking about that failed assination attempt on Hitler. He may not trust his close advisors and military staff.

justan <me@here.com> wrote:
> "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com> Wrote in message:r
>> On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022
>> 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On
>> 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022
>> 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <califbill9998remove8@gmail.com>
>> wrote:>>>>>>> <gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022
>> 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>> <califbill9998remove8@gmail.com>
>> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022
>> 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>>> <califbill9998remove8@gmail.com>
>> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since I don?t think they can defeat the
>> amount of Russians Putin will throw>>>>>>>> at them, they should take
>> the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the>>>>>>>> transformers at lots
>> of major power substations. Then mine bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major
>> areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them
>> stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks,
>> as>>>>>>>> how long is the cyber computers going to be able to run on
>> auxiliary power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet
>> repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine
>> ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on
>> their homeland seriously, much>>>>>>> like the US and they might send in
>> a million soldiers with all the>>>>>>> technology they can bring to
>> bear.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the modern technology, I don?t think
>> Russia would do well. They may>>>>>> not depend on the internet as
>> much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How>>>>>> much starvation when
>> they can not get orders to deliver food?>>>>>>>>>> I think you are
>> overestimating what Ukraine could do and>>>>> underestimating the
>> resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they lived>>>>> the USSR for most
>> of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of life. They
>> also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling>>>>> invaders.
>> Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They may>>>>> have a
>> generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if
>> Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,>>>>> Ukraine
>> would cease to exist as a viable country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if
>> they had just made some kind of agrement that the>>>>> Eastern regions,
>> that would willingly go back to being Russia, be>>>>> allowed to, this
>> whole thing might have been unnecessary. It is the>>>>> likely outcome
>> anyway.>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don?t think it would take too many assets to
>> bring Russia or the USA to a>>>> halt. Destroy the transformers at a
>> few major power stations. How many>>>> spares are a available, and how
>> long to build replacements? A few bridges>>>> taken out. Look how
>> much havoc the San Francisco Bay taken out in the>>>> Loma Prieta
>> earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people
>> with a couple semi?s worth of explosives.>>>>>> You do not want to test
>> the resolve of the second most powerful>>> military in the world by
>> attacking their homeland. A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2
>> buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to destroy
>> three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still do not
>> have a good count of how many people died.>>>>>> I realize your post is
>> a few days old but based on the Russian military>> 's performance so far
>> in Ukraine, it sure doesn't seem to be of the>> same caliber it was
>> years ago. Several former US generals on the>> various cable networks
>> all agree. Russia's invasion has been a>> clusterfuck so far. Munition
>> malfunctions, logistical problems>> and a bunch of young conscripts who
>> didn't even know why they were>> there.>>>> It's too bad the nuke issue
>> hangs over this. I think US and NATO forces>> could make mincemeat of
>> the 40 mile long line of Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop
>> transports and fuel trucks, all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A
>> few A-10 Warthogs would probably due the trick.> > No doubt they are
>> fighting a "3d world" style war, assuming there is> no real opposition
>> other than small arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian
>> soldiers are not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we
>> really don't want to see an effective> attack on Russian soil. That
>> might be what it takes to turn them into> an army out for revenge. Right
>> now I doubt Putin is doing a very good> job in selling this war to his
>> citizens. On the bright side, the big > money in Russia may be the ones
>> to stop this and knock a little shine> off of Putin. I still bet he
>> keeps the Donbass area.> .I think the Russian civilian population is
>> experiencing a similarenlightenment that the US civilian population
>> experienced startingin the mid 60's with the war in Vietnam.Post Soviet
>> Russia is not the same as it was prior to 1991.Capitalism has
>> flourished. The Internet exists. Social Mediais available. A new
>> generation of Russians exist with accessto information about the world
>> beyond their borders.Putin is a hold over from the Soviet days. He
>> doesn't use theInternet. He doesn't even live in the Kremlin ... and
>> hasn'tfor years. He lives in a "palace" built for him back in 2005in a
>> very controversial "business" arrangement with a wealthyRussian ally.
>> He's out of touch and not living in the worldof 2022.Ultimately I think
>> the Russian people will be the cause ofhis downfall. I also think that
>> eventually the same may betrue in China.If you keep your citizens like
>> mushrooms ... living in darkcaves and feeding them bullshit you can
>> maintain power. Butonce the sunlight starts to illuminate what is
>> around them,the revolts begin.-- This email has been checked for viruses by
>> AVG.https://www.avg.com
>
> Someone should start a go fund me to finance Putins removal

One of the Russian oligarch has put up a 7 figure bounty on Putin.

On 3/4/2022 11:02 AM, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 8:41:21 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:
>> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:
>>
>>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r
>>>> On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since I don?t think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw>>>>>>>> at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the>>>>>>>> transformers at lots of major power substations. Then mine bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as>>>>>>>> how long is the cyber
>> computers
>>> going to be able to run on auxiliary power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much>>>>>>> like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the>>>>>>> technology they can bring to bear.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the modern technology, I don?t think Russia would do well. They may>>>>>> not depend on the internet as much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How>>>>>> much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?>>>>>>>>>> I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and>>>>> underestimating the resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they lived>>>>> the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They
>> may>>>>>
>>> have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the>>>>> Eastern regions, that would willingly go back to being Russia, be>>>>> allowed to, this whole thing might have been unnecessary. It is the>>>>> likely outcome anyway.>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don?t think it would take too many assets to bring Russia or the USA to a>>>> halt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power stations. How many>>>> spares are a available, and how long to build replacements? A few bridges>>>> taken out. Look how much havoc the San Francisco Bay taken out in the>>>> Loma Prieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people with a couple semi?s worth of explosives.>>>>>> You do not want to test the resolve of the second most powerful>>> military in the world by
>>> attacking their homeland. A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2 buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still do not have a good count of how many people died.>>>>>> I realize your post is a few days old but based on the Russian military>> 's performance so far in Ukraine, it sure doesn't seem to be of the>> same caliber it was years ago. Several former US generals on the>> various cable networks all agree. Russia's invasion has been a>> clusterfuck so far. Munition malfunctions, logistical problems>> and a bunch of young conscripts who didn't even know why they were>> there.>>>> It's too bad the nuke issue hangs over this. I think US and NATO forces>> could make mincemeat of the 40 mile long line of Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks, all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would probably due the trick.> > No doubt they are
>>> fighting a "3d world" style war, assuming there is> no real opposition other than small arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian soldiers are not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we really don't want to see an effective> attack on Russian soil. That might be what it takes to turn them into> an army out for revenge. Right now I doubt Putin is doing a very good> job in selling this war to his citizens. On the bright side, the big > money in Russia may be the ones to stop this and knock a little shine> off of Putin. I still bet he keeps the Donbass area.> .I think the Russian civilian population is experiencing a similarenlightenment that the US civilian population experienced startingin the mid 60's with the war in Vietnam.Post Soviet Russia is not the same as it was prior to 1991.Capitalism has flourished. The Internet exists. Social Mediais available. A new generation of Russians exist with accessto information about the world beyond their
>>> borders.Putin is a hold over from the Soviet days. He doesn't use theInternet. He doesn't even live in the Kremlin ... and hasn'tfor years. He lives in a "palace" built for him back in 2005in a very controversial "business" arrangement with a wealthyRussian ally. He's out of touch and not living in the worldof 2022.Ultimately I think the Russian people will be the cause ofhis downfall. I also think that eventually the same may betrue in China.If you keep your citizens like mushrooms ... living in darkcaves and feeding them bullshit you can maintain power. Butonce the sunlight starts to illuminate what is around them,the revolts begin.-- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.https://www.avg.com
>>>
>>> Someone should start a go fund me to finance Putins removal
>> Some oligarch in CA offered $1M. Hell, I'd contribute.
>
> ===
>
> Based on recent photos of Putin's very long conference room table, I'd say that he is practicing extreme social distancing.

I've heard that he rarely leaves the "palace" that he lives in and is
pretty much isolated from contact with anyone.

"Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com> Wrote in message:r
> On 3/4/2022 11:02 AM, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote:> On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 8:41:21 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:>> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r>>>> On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since I don?t think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw>>>>>>>> at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the>>>>>>>> transformers at lots of major power substations. Then mine bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as>>>>>>>> how long i
s the cyber>> computers>>> going to be able to run on auxiliary power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much>>>>>>> like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the>>>>>>> technology they can bring to bear.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the modern technology, I don?t think Russia would do well. They may>>>>>> not depend on the internet as much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How>>>>>> much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?>>>>>>>>>> I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and>>>>> underestimating the resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they lived>>>>> the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They>> may>>>>>>>> have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as
a viable country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the>>>>> Eastern regions, that would willingly go back to being Russia, be>>>>> allowed to, this whole thing might have been unnecessary. It is the>>>>> likely outcome anyway.>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don?t think it would take too many assets to bring Russia or the USA to a>>>> halt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power stations. How many>>>> spares are a available, and how long to build replacements? A few bridges>>>> taken out. Look how much havoc the San Francisco Bay taken out in the>>>> Loma Prieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people with a couple semi?s worth of explosives.>>>>>> You do not want to test the resolve of the second most powerful>>> military in the world by>>> attacking their homeland. A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2 buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still do not have a good count of how many people died.>>>>>> I realize your post is a few days old but based on the Russian military>> 's performance so far in Ukraine, it sure doesn't
seem to be of the>> same caliber it was years ago. Several former US generals on the>> various cable networks all agree. Russia's invasion has been a>> clusterfuck so far. Munition malfunctions, logistical problems>> and a bunch of young conscripts who didn't even know why they were>> there.>>>> It's too bad the nuke issue hangs over this. I think US and NATO forces>> could make mincemeat of the 40 mile long line of Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks, all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would probably due the trick.> > No doubt they are>>> fighting a "3d world" style war, assuming there is> no real opposition other than small arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian soldiers are not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we really don't want to see an effective> attack on Russian soil. That might be what it takes to turn them into> an army out for revenge. Right now I doubt Putin is doing a very good> job in selling this war to his citizens. On the bright side, the big > money in Russia may be the ones to stop this and knock a little shine> off of Putin. I still bet he keeps the Donbass area.> .I
think the Russian civilian population is experiencing a similarenlightenment that the US civilian population experienced startingin the mid 60's with the war in Vietnam.Post Soviet Russia is not the same as it was prior to 1991.Capitalism has flourished. The Internet exists. Social Mediais available. A new generation of Russians exist with accessto information about the world beyond their>>> borders.Putin is a hold over from the Soviet days. He doesn't use theInternet. He doesn't even live in the Kremlin ... and hasn'tfor years. He lives in a "palace" built for him back in 2005in a very controversial "business" arrangement with a wealthyRussian ally. He's out of touch and not living in the worldof 2022.Ultimately I think the Russian people will be the cause ofhis downfall. I also think that eventually the same may betrue in China.If you keep your citizens like mushrooms ... living in darkcaves and feeding them bullshit you can maintain power. Butonce the sunlight starts to illuminate what is around them,the revolts begin.-- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.https://www.avg.com>>>>>> Someone should start a go fund me to finance Putins removal>> Some oligarch in CA offe
red $1M. Hell, I'd contribute.> > ===> > Based on recent photos of Putin's very long conference room table, I'd say that he is practicing extreme social distancing.I've heard that he rarely leaves the "palace" that he lives in and is pretty much isolated from contact with anyone.

I wonder what air defenses his palace has?
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On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 10:40:21 AM UTC-5, justan wrote:
> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r
> > On 3/4/2022 11:02 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:> On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 8:41:21 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:>> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland..com> Wrote in message:r>>>> On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>> <gfre....@aol.com> wrote:>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since I don?t think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw>>>>>>>> at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the>>>>>>>> transformers at lots of major power substations. Then mine bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as>>>>>>>> how long is the cyber>> computers>>> going to be able to run on auxiliary power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much>>>>>>> like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the>>>>>>> technology they can bring to bear.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the modern technology, I don?t think Russia would do well. They may>>>>>> not depend on the internet as much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How>>>>>> much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?>>>>>>>>>> I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and>>>>> underestimating the resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they lived>>>>> the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They>> may>>>>>>>> have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the>>>>> Eastern regions, that would willingly go back to being Russia, be>>>>> allowed to, this whole thing might have been unnecessary. It is the>>>>> likely outcome anyway.>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don?t think it would take too many assets to bring Russia or the USA to a>>>> halt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power stations. How many>>>> spares are a available, and how long to build replacements? A few bridges>>>> taken out. Look how much havoc the San Francisco Bay taken out in the>>>> Loma Prieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people with a couple semi?s worth of explosives.>>>>>> You do not want to test the resolve of the second most powerful>>> military in the world by>>> attacking their homeland. A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2 buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still do not have a good count of how many people died.>>>>>> I realize your post is a few days old but based on the Russian military>> 's performance so far in Ukraine, it sure doesn't seem to be of the>> same caliber it was years ago. Several former US generals on the>> various cable networks all agree. Russia's invasion has been a>> clusterfuck so far. Munition malfunctions, logistical problems>> and a bunch of young conscripts who didn't even know why they were>> there.>>>> It's too bad the nuke issue hangs over this. I think US and NATO forces>> could make mincemeat of the 40 mile long line of Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks, all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would probably due the trick.> > No doubt they are>>> fighting a "3d world" style war, assuming there is> no real opposition other than small arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian soldiers are not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we really don't want to see an effective> attack on Russian soil. That might be what it takes to turn them into> an army out for revenge. Right now I doubt Putin is doing a very good> job in selling this war to his citizens. On the bright side, the big > money in Russia may be the ones to stop this and knock a little shine> off of Putin. I still bet he keeps the Donbass area.> .I think the Russian civilian population is experiencing a similarenlightenment that the US civilian population experienced startingin the mid 60's with the war in Vietnam.Post Soviet Russia is not the same as it was prior to 1991.Capitalism has flourished. The Internet exists. Social Mediais available. A new generation of Russians exist with accessto information about the world beyond their>>> borders.Putin is a hold over from the Soviet days. He doesn't use theInternet. He doesn't even live in the Kremlin ... and hasn'tfor years. He lives in a "palace" built for him back in 2005in a very controversial "business" arrangement with a wealthyRussian ally. He's out of touch and not living in the worldof 2022.Ultimately I think the Russian people will be the cause ofhis downfall. I also think that eventually the same may betrue in China.If you keep your citizens like mushrooms ... living in darkcaves and feeding them bullshit you can maintain power. Butonce the sunlight starts to illuminate what is around them,the revolts begin.-- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.https://www.avg.com>>>>>> Someone should start a go fund me to finance Putins removal>> Some oligarch in CA offered $1M. Hell, I'd contribute.> > ===> > Based on recent photos of Putin's very long conference room table, I'd say that he is practicing extreme social distancing.I've heard that he rarely leaves the "palace" that he lives in and is pretty much isolated from contact with anyone.
>
> I wonder what air defenses his palace has?

==
We repeatedly tried to bomb Saddam Hussein's so called palaces and failed to get him. 5 minutes after any attempt to bomb Putin would see an armada of nuclear warheads heading for the US. It would be a declaration of war, a war with no winners. Even if only 5% of Russian nukes actually made it, the devastation would be unimaginable. Putin will have to be removed from within.

justan <me@here.com> Wrote in message:r
> "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com> Wrote in message:r> On 3/4/2022 11:02 AM, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote:> On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 8:41:21 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:>> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r>>>> On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since I don?t think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw>>>>>>>> at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the>>>>>>>> transformers at lots of major power substations. Then mine bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. Wo
uld also stop most cyber attacks, as>>>>>>>> how long is the cyber>> computers>>> going to be able to run on auxiliary power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much>>>>>>> like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the>>>>>>> technology they can bring to bear.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the modern technology, I don?t think Russia would do well. They may>>>>>> not depend on the internet as much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How>>>>>> much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?>>>>>>>>>> I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and>>>>> underestimating the resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they lived>>>>> the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They>> may>>>>>>>> have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia w
as being attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the>>>>> Eastern regions, that would willingly go back to being Russia, be>>>>> allowed to, this whole thing might have been unnecessary. It is the>>>>> likely outcome anyway.>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don?t think it would take too many assets to bring Russia or the USA to a>>>> halt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power stations. How many>>>> spares are a available, and how long to build replacements? A few bridges>>>> taken out. Look how much havoc the San Francisco Bay taken out in the>>>> Loma Prieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people with a couple semi?s worth of explosives.>>>>>> You do not want to test the resolve of the second most powerful>>> military in the world by>>> attacking their homeland. A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2 buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still do not have a good count of how many people died.>>>>>> I realize your post is a few days old but based on the Russian milit
ary>> 's performance so far in Ukraine, it sure doesn't seem to be of the>> same caliber it was years ago. Several former US generals on the>> various cable networks all agree. Russia's invasion has been a>> clusterfuck so far. Munition malfunctions, logistical problems>> and a bunch of young conscripts who didn't even know why they were>> there.>>>> It's too bad the nuke issue hangs over this. I think US and NATO forces>> could make mincemeat of the 40 mile long line of Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks, all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would probably due the trick.> > No doubt they are>>> fighting a "3d world" style war, assuming there is> no real opposition other than small arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian soldiers are not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we really don't want to see an effective> attack on Russian soil. That might be what it takes to turn them into> an army out for revenge. Right now I doubt Putin is doing a very good> job in selling this war to his citizens. On the bright side, the big > money in Russia may be the ones to stop this and knock a little shine> of
f of Putin. I still bet he keeps the Donbass area.> .I think the Russian civilian population is experiencing a similarenlightenment that the US civilian population experienced startingin the mid 60's with the war in Vietnam.Post Soviet Russia is not the same as it was prior to 1991.Capitalism has flourished. The Internet exists. Social Mediais available. A new generation of Russians exist with accessto information about the world beyond their>>> borders.Putin is a hold over from the Soviet days. He doesn't use theInternet. He doesn't even live in the Kremlin ... and hasn'tfor years. He lives in a "palace" built for him back in 2005in a very controversial "business" arrangement with a wealthyRussian ally. He's out of touch and not living in the worldof 2022.Ultimately I think the Russian people will be the cause ofhis downfall. I also think that eventually the same may betrue in China.If you keep your citizens like mushrooms ... living in darkcaves and feeding them bullshit you can maintain power. Butonce the sunlight starts to illuminate what is around them,the revolts begin.-- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.https://www.avg.com>>>>>> Someone should start a go fund
me to finance Putins removal>> Some oligarch in CA offered $1M. Hell, I'd contribute.> > ===> > Based on recent photos of Putin's very long conference room table, I'd say that he is practicing extreme social distancing.I've heard that he rarely leaves the "palace" that he lives in and is pretty much isolated from contact with anyone.I wonder what air defenses his palace has?-- Thanks Donald. Do you miss him yet?----Android NewsGroup Reader----https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html

Turns out Vlad has 8 official presidential palaces, The most
recent cost 1.4 Billion USD according to a google
search.
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"waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com" <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com>
Wrote in message:r
> On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 10:40:21 AM UTC-5, justan wrote:> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r> > On 3/4/2022 11:02 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:> On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 8:41:21 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:>> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r>>>> On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since I don?t think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw>>>>>>>> at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the>>>>>>>> transformers at lots of major power substations. Then mine bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of R
ussia and make>>>>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as>>>>>>>> how long is the cyber>> computers>>> going to be able to run on auxiliary power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much>>>>>>> like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the>>>>>>> technology they can bring to bear.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the modern technology, I don?t think Russia would do well. They may>>>>>> not depend on the internet as much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How>>>>>> much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?>>>>>>>>>> I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and>>>>> underestimating the resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they lived>>>>> the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They>> may>>>>>>>> have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.>>>>>
>>>>> My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the>>>>> Eastern regions, that would willingly go back to being Russia, be>>>>> allowed to, this whole thing might have been unnecessary. It is the>>>>> likely outcome anyway.>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don?t think it would take too many assets to bring Russia or the USA to a>>>> halt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power stations. How many>>>> spares are a available, and how long to build replacements? A few bridges>>>> taken out. Look how much havoc the San Francisco Bay taken out in the>>>> Loma Prieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people with a couple semi?s worth of explosives.>>>>>> You do not want to test the resolve of the second most powerful>>> military in the world by>>> attacking their homeland. A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2 buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still do not have a good count of how many people died.>>>>>> I realize
your post is a few days old but based on the Russian military>> 's performance so far in Ukraine, it sure doesn't seem to be of the>> same caliber it was years ago. Several former US generals on the>> various cable networks all agree. Russia's invasion has been a>> clusterfuck so far. Munition malfunctions, logistical problems>> and a bunch of young conscripts who didn't even know why they were>> there.>>>> It's too bad the nuke issue hangs over this. I think US and NATO forces>> could make mincemeat of the 40 mile long line of Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks, all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would probably due the trick.> > No doubt they are>>> fighting a "3d world" style war, assuming there is> no real opposition other than small arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian soldiers are not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we really don't want to see an effective> attack on Russian soil. That might be what it takes to turn them into> an army out for revenge. Right now I doubt Putin is doing a very good> job in selling this war to his citizens. On the bright side, the big > money in Russia
may be the ones to stop this and knock a little shine> off of Putin. I still bet he keeps the Donbass area.> .I think the Russian civilian population is experiencing a similarenlightenment that the US civilian population experienced startingin the mid 60's with the war in Vietnam.Post Soviet Russia is not the same as it was prior to 1991.Capitalism has flourished. The Internet exists. Social Mediais available. A new generation of Russians exist with accessto information about the world beyond their>>> borders.Putin is a hold over from the Soviet days. He doesn't use theInternet. He doesn't even live in the Kremlin ... and hasn'tfor years. He lives in a "palace" built for him back in 2005in a very controversial "business" arrangement with a wealthyRussian ally. He's out of touch and not living in the worldof 2022.Ultimately I think the Russian people will be the cause ofhis downfall. I also think that eventually the same may betrue in China.If you keep your citizens like mushrooms ... living in darkcaves and feeding them bullshit you can maintain power. Butonce the sunlight starts to illuminate what is around them,the revolts begin.-- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG
.https://www.avg.com>>>>>> Someone should start a go fund me to finance Putins removal>> Some oligarch in CA offered $1M. Hell, I'd contribute.> > ===> > Based on recent photos of Putin's very long conference room table, I'd say that he is practicing extreme social distancing.I've heard that he rarely leaves the "palace" that he lives in and is pretty much isolated from contact with anyone. > > I wonder what air defenses his palace has?===We repeatedly tried to bomb Saddam Hussein's so called palaces and failed to get him. 5 minutes after any attempt to bomb Putin would see an armada of nuclear warheads heading for the US. It would be a declaration of war, a war with no winners. Even if only 5% of Russian nukes actually made it, the devastation would be unimaginable. Putin will have to be removed from within.

Probably true. Putin has us between a rock and a hard place. Maybe
we need to replace Sleepy Joe with a Crazy man of our own. Or we
can just sit on the sidelines and watch Putin conquer the world.
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On 3/5/2022 10:56 AM, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 10:40:21 AM UTC-5, justan wrote:
>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r
>>> On 3/4/2022 11:02 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:> On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 8:41:21 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:>> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r>>>> On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since I don?t think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw>>>>>>>> at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the>>>>>>>> transformers at lots of major power substations. Then mine bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as>>>>>>>> how long is the cyber>> computers>>> going to be able to run on auxiliary power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much>>>>>>> like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the>>>>>>> technology they can bring to bear.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the modern technology, I don?t think Russia would do well. They may>>>>>> not depend on the internet as much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How>>>>>> much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?>>>>>>>>>> I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and>>>>> underestimating the resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they lived>>>>> the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They>> may>>>>>>>> have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the>>>>> Eastern regions, that would willingly go back to being Russia, be>>>>> allowed to, this whole thing might have been unnecessary. It is the>>>>> likely outcome anyway.>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don?t think it would take too many assets to bring Russia or the USA to a>>>> halt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power stations. How many>>>> spares are a available, and how long to build replacements? A few bridges>>>> taken out. Look how much havoc the San Francisco Bay taken out in the>>>> Loma Prieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people with a couple semi?s worth of explosives.>>>>>> You do not want to test the resolve of the second most powerful>>> military in the world by>>> attacking their homeland. A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2 buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still do not have a good count of how many people died.>>>>>> I realize your post is a few days old but based on the Russian military>> 's performance so far in Ukraine, it sure doesn't seem to be of the>> same caliber it was years ago. Several former US generals on the>> various cable networks all agree. Russia's invasion has been a>> clusterfuck so far. Munition malfunctions, logistical problems>> and a bunch of young conscripts who didn't even know why they were>> there.>>>> It's too bad the nuke issue hangs over this. I think US and NATO forces>> could make mincemeat of the 40 mile long line of Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks, all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would probably due the trick.> > No doubt they are>>> fighting a "3d world" style war, assuming there is> no real opposition other than small arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian soldiers are not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we really don't want to see an effective> attack on Russian soil. That might be what it takes to turn them into> an army out for revenge. Right now I doubt Putin is doing a very good> job in selling this war to his citizens. On the bright side, the big > money in Russia may be the ones to stop this and knock a little shine> off of Putin. I still bet he keeps the Donbass area.> .I think the Russian civilian population is experiencing a similarenlightenment that the US civilian population experienced startingin the mid 60's with the war in Vietnam.Post Soviet Russia is not the same as it was prior to 1991.Capitalism has flourished. The Internet exists. Social Mediais available. A new generation of Russians exist with accessto information about the world beyond their>>> borders.Putin is a hold over from the Soviet days. He doesn't use theInternet. He doesn't even live in the Kremlin ... and hasn'tfor years. He lives in a "palace" built for him back in 2005in a very controversial "business" arrangement with a wealthyRussian ally. He's out of touch and not living in the worldof 2022.Ultimately I think the Russian people will be the cause ofhis downfall. I also think that eventually the same may betrue in China.If you keep your citizens like mushrooms ... living in darkcaves and feeding them bullshit you can maintain power. Butonce the sunlight starts to illuminate what is around them,the revolts begin.-- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.https://www.avg.com>>>>>> Someone should start a go fund me to finance Putins removal>> Some oligarch in CA offered $1M. Hell, I'd contribute.> > ===> > Based on recent photos of Putin's very long conference room table, I'd say that he is practicing extreme social distancing.I've heard that he rarely leaves the "palace" that he lives in and is pretty much isolated from contact with anyone.
>>
>> I wonder what air defenses his palace has?
>
> ===
>

> We repeatedly tried to bomb Saddam Hussein's so called palaces and failed to get him. 5 minutes after any attempt to bomb Putin would see an armada of nuclear warheads heading for the US. It would be a declaration of war, a war with no winners. Even if only 5% of Russian nukes actually made it, the devastation would be unimaginable. Putin will have to be removed from within.
Wayne, unless the Russian people (or a covert action by us) take Putin
out, I have a sinking feeling that we are heading for a nuclear exchange
anyway. It might be the best option to counter invade Ukraine with
overwhelming USA and NATO forces *now* and demoralize the Russian troops
who are there ... seemingly ill -led.
If Putin's objective to reestablish the Russian Empire sanctions aren't
going to stop him. If the sanctions become too onerous to the
Russian economy he could very well resort to a nuclear strike anyway,
like a cornered snake.
I am starting to get the feeling that the West is attempting to fight
this action by Putin based on Western principled idealism, thinking
that any sane person would recognize the hurt it brings on citizens.
I don't think Putin shares "principled idealism" or even understands
what it means.

On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 11:27:45 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
> On 3/5/2022 10:56 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 10:40:21 AM UTC-5, justan wrote:
> >> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r
> >>> On 3/4/2022 11:02 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:> On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 8:41:21 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:>> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r>>>> On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since I don?t think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw>>>>>>>> at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the>>>>>>>> transformers at lots of major power substations. Then mine bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as>>>>>>>> how long is the cyber>> computers>>> going to be able to run on auxiliary power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much>>>>>>> like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the>>>>>>> technology they can bring to bear.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the modern technology, I don?t think Russia would do well. They may>>>>>> not depend on the internet as much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How>>>>>> much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?>>>>>>>>>> I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and>>>>> underestimating the resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they lived>>>>> the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They>> may>>>>>>>> have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the>>>>> Eastern regions, that would willingly go back to being Russia, be>>>>> allowed to, this whole thing might have been unnecessary. It is the>>>>> likely outcome anyway.>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don?t think it would take too many assets to bring Russia or the USA to a>>>> halt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power stations. How many>>>> spares are a available, and how long to build replacements? A few bridges>>>> taken out. Look how much havoc the San Francisco Bay taken out in the>>>> Loma Prieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people with a couple semi?s worth of explosives.>>>>>> You do not want to test the resolve of the second most powerful>>> military in the world by>>> attacking their homeland. A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2 buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still do not have a good count of how many people died.>>>>>> I realize your post is a few days old but based on the Russian military>> 's performance so far in Ukraine, it sure doesn't seem to be of the>> same caliber it was years ago. Several former US generals on the>> various cable networks all agree. Russia's invasion has been a>> clusterfuck so far. Munition malfunctions, logistical problems>> and a bunch of young conscripts who didn't even know why they were>> there.>>>> It's too bad the nuke issue hangs over this. I think US and NATO forces>> could make mincemeat of the 40 mile long line of Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks, all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would probably due the trick.> > No doubt they are>>> fighting a "3d world" style war, assuming there is> no real opposition other than small arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian soldiers are not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we really don't want to see an effective> attack on Russian soil. That might be what it takes to turn them into> an army out for revenge. Right now I doubt Putin is doing a very good> job in selling this war to his citizens. On the bright side, the big > money in Russia may be the ones to stop this and knock a little shine> off of Putin. I still bet he keeps the Donbass area.> .I think the Russian civilian population is experiencing a similarenlightenment that the US civilian population experienced startingin the mid 60's with the war in Vietnam.Post Soviet Russia is not the same as it was prior to 1991.Capitalism has flourished. The Internet exists. Social Mediais available. A new generation of Russians exist with accessto information about the world beyond their>>> borders.Putin is a hold over from the Soviet days. He doesn't use theInternet. He doesn't even live in the Kremlin ... and hasn'tfor years. He lives in a "palace" built for him back in 2005in a very controversial "business" arrangement with a wealthyRussian ally. He's out of touch and not living in the worldof 2022.Ultimately I think the Russian people will be the cause ofhis downfall. I also think that eventually the same may betrue in China.If you keep your citizens like mushrooms ... living in darkcaves and feeding them bullshit you can maintain power. Butonce the sunlight starts to illuminate what is around them,the revolts begin.-- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.https://www.avg.com>>>>>> Someone should start a go fund me to finance Putins removal>> Some oligarch in CA offered $1M. Hell, I'd contribute.> > ===> > Based on recent photos of Putin's very long conference room table, I'd say that he is practicing extreme social distancing.I've heard that he rarely leaves the "palace" that he lives in and is pretty much isolated from contact with anyone.
> >>
> >> I wonder what air defenses his palace has?
> >
> > ===
> >
>
>
> > We repeatedly tried to bomb Saddam Hussein's so called palaces and failed to get him. 5 minutes after any attempt to bomb Putin would see an armada of nuclear warheads heading for the US. It would be a declaration of war, a war with no winners. Even if only 5% of Russian nukes actually made it, the devastation would be unimaginable. Putin will have to be removed from within.
> Wayne, unless the Russian people (or a covert action by us) take Putin
> out, I have a sinking feeling that we are heading for a nuclear exchange
> anyway. It might be the best option to counter invade Ukraine with
> overwhelming USA and NATO forces *now* and demoralize the Russian troops
> who are there ... seemingly ill -led.
>
> If Putin's objective to reestablish the Russian Empire sanctions aren't
> going to stop him. If the sanctions become too onerous to the
> Russian economy he could very well resort to a nuclear strike anyway,
> like a cornered snake.
>
> I am starting to get the feeling that the West is attempting to fight
> this action by Putin based on Western principled idealism, thinking
> that any sane person would recognize the hurt it brings on citizens.
>
> I don't think Putin shares "principled idealism" or even understands
> what it means.

==
It's likely that we are already engaged in covert actions in Ukraine. Trying to take Putin out on his home turf would be extremely difficult however and might very well energize Russian sentiment against us, just as a similar attempt would energize US citizens. Any attempts at targeted assassination would surely invite reciprocal actions and that would go downhill quickly.

waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 11:27:45 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>> On 3/5/2022 10:56 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 10:40:21 AM UTC-5, justan wrote:
>>>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r
>>>>> On 3/4/2022 11:02 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:> On Friday,
>>>>> March 4, 2022 at 8:41:21 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:>> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022
>>>>> 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:>>>>> "Mr. Luddite"
>>>>> <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r>>>> On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM,
>>>>> gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
>>>>> <not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM,
>>>>> gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>
>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>
>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com>
>>>>> wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>>>
>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since I don?t
>>>>> think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw>>>>>>>>
>>>>> at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up
>>>>> the>>>>>>>> transformers at lots of major power substations. Then
>>>>> mine bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the
>>>>> people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies.
>>>>> Would also stop most cyber attacks, as>>>>>>>> how long is the
>>>>> cyber>> computers>>> going to be able to run on auxiliary
>>>>> power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet
>>>>> repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine
>>>>> ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on
>>>>> their homeland seriously, much>>>>>>> like the US and they might send
>>>>> in a million soldiers with all the>>>>>>> technology they can bring to
>>>>> bear.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the modern technology, I don?t think
>>>>> Russia would do well. They may>>>>>> not depend on the internet as
>>>>> much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How>>>>>> much starvation when
>>>>> they can not get orders to deliver food?>>>>>>>>>> I think you are
>>>>> overestimating what Ukraine could do and>>>>> underestimating the
>>>>> resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they lived>>>>> the USSR for
>>>>> most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of
>>>>> life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of
>>>>> repelling>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard
>>>>> way. They>> may>>>>>>>> have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt
>>>>> it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being
>>>>> attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable
>>>>> country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of
>>>>> agrement that the>>>>> Eastern regions, that would willingly go back
>>>>> to being Russia, be>>>>> allowed to, this whole thing might have been
>>>>> unnecessary. It is the>>>>> likely outcome anyway.>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>> don?t think it would take too many assets to bring Russia or the USA
>>>>> to a>>>> halt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power
>>>>> stations. How many>>>> spares are a available, and how long to build
>>>>> replacements? A few bridges>>>> taken out. Look how much havoc the
>>>>> San Francisco Bay taken out in the>>>> Loma Prieta earthquake caused
>>>>> and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people with a couple
>>>>> semi?s worth of explosives.>>>>>> You do not want to test the resolve
>>>>> of the second most powerful>>> military in the world by>>> attacking
>>>>> their homeland. A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2
>>>>> buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to
>>>>> destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still
>>>>> do not have a good count of how many people died.>>>>>> I realize
>>>>> your post is a few days old but based on the Russian military>> 's
>>>>> performance so far in Ukraine, it sure doesn't seem to be of the>>
>>>>> same caliber it was years ago. Several former US generals on the>>
>>>>> various cable networks all agree. Russia's invasion has been a>>
>>>>> clusterfuck so far. Munition malfunctions, logistical problems>> and
>>>>> a bunch of young conscripts who didn't even know why they were>>
>>>>> there.>>>> It's too bad the nuke issue hangs over this. I think US
>>>>> and NATO forces>> could make mincemeat of the 40 mile long line of
>>>>> Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks,
>>>>> all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would
>>>>> probably due the trick.> > No doubt they are>>> fighting a "3d world"
>>>>> style war, assuming there is> no real opposition other than small
>>>>> arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian soldiers are
>>>>> not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we really
>>>>> don't want to see an effective> attack on Russian soil. That might be
>>>>> what it takes to turn them into> an army out for revenge. Right now I
>>>>> doubt Putin is doing a very good> job in selling this war to his
>>>>> citizens. On the bright side, the big > money in Russia may be the
>>>>> ones to stop this and knock a little shine> off of Putin. I still bet
>>>>> he keeps the Donbass area.> .I think the Russian civilian population
>>>>> is experiencing a similarenlightenment that the US civilian
>>>>> population experienced startingin the mid 60's with the war in
>>>>> Vietnam.Post Soviet Russia is not the same as it was prior to
>>>>> 1991.Capitalism has flourished. The Internet exists. Social Mediais
>>>>> available. A new generation of Russians exist with accessto
>>>>> information about the world beyond their>>> borders.Putin is a hold
>>>>> over from the Soviet days. He doesn't use theInternet. He doesn't
>>>>> even live in the Kremlin ... and hasn'tfor years. He lives in a
>>>>> "palace" built for him back in 2005in a very controversial "business"
>>>>> arrangement with a wealthyRussian ally. He's out of touch and not
>>>>> living in the worldof 2022.Ultimately I think the Russian people will
>>>>> be the cause ofhis downfall. I also think that eventually the same
>>>>> may betrue in China.If you keep your citizens like mushrooms ...
>>>>> living in darkcaves and feeding them bullshit you can maintain power.
>>>>> Butonce the sunlight starts to illuminate what is around them,the
>>>>> revolts begin.-- This email has been checked for viruses by
>>>>> AVG.https://www.avg.com>>>>>> Someone should start a go fund me to
>>>>> finance Putins removal>> Some oligarch in CA offered $1M. Hell, I'd
>>>>> contribute.> > ===> > Based on recent photos of Putin's very long
>>>>> conference room table, I'd say that he is practicing extreme social
>>>>> distancing.I've heard that he rarely leaves the "palace" that he
>>>>> lives in and is pretty much isolated from contact with anyone.
>>>>
>>>> I wonder what air defenses his palace has?
>>>
>>> ===
>>>
>>
>>
>>> We repeatedly tried to bomb Saddam Hussein's so called palaces and
>>> failed to get him. 5 minutes after any attempt to bomb Putin would see
>>> an armada of nuclear warheads heading for the US. It would be a
>>> declaration of war, a war with no winners. Even if only 5% of Russian
>>> nukes actually made it, the devastation would be unimaginable. Putin
>>> will have to be removed from within.
>> Wayne, unless the Russian people (or a covert action by us) take Putin
>> out, I have a sinking feeling that we are heading for a nuclear exchange
>> anyway. It might be the best option to counter invade Ukraine with
>> overwhelming USA and NATO forces *now* and demoralize the Russian troops
>> who are there ... seemingly ill -led.
>>
>> If Putin's objective to reestablish the Russian Empire sanctions aren't
>> going to stop him. If the sanctions become too onerous to the
>> Russian economy he could very well resort to a nuclear strike anyway,
>> like a cornered snake.
>>
>> I am starting to get the feeling that the West is attempting to fight
>> this action by Putin based on Western principled idealism, thinking
>> that any sane person would recognize the hurt it brings on citizens.
>>
>> I don't think Putin shares "principled idealism" or even understands
>> what it means.
>
> ==
> It's likely that we are already engaged in covert actions in Ukraine.
> Trying to take Putin out on his home turf would be extremely difficult
> however and might very well energize Russian sentiment against us, just
> as a similar attempt would energize US citizens. Any attempts at
> targeted assassination would surely invite reciprocal actions and that
> would go downhill quickly.
>

On 3/5/2022 7:11 PM, Bill wrote:
> waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 11:27:45 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>> On 3/5/2022 10:56 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 10:40:21 AM UTC-5, justan wrote:
>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r
>>>>>> On 3/4/2022 11:02 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:> On Friday,
>>>>>> March 4, 2022 at 8:41:21 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:>> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022
>>>>>> 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:>>>>> "Mr. Luddite"
>>>>>> <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r>>>> On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM,
>>>>>> gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
>>>>>> <not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM,
>>>>>> gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>
>>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>
>>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com>
>>>>>> wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since I don?t
>>>>>> think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up
>>>>>> the>>>>>>>> transformers at lots of major power substations. Then
>>>>>> mine bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the
>>>>>> people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies.
>>>>>> Would also stop most cyber attacks, as>>>>>>>> how long is the
>>>>>> cyber>> computers>>> going to be able to run on auxiliary
>>>>>> power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet
>>>>>> repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine
>>>>>> ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on
>>>>>> their homeland seriously, much>>>>>>> like the US and they might send
>>>>>> in a million soldiers with all the>>>>>>> technology they can bring to
>>>>>> bear.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the modern technology, I don?t think
>>>>>> Russia would do well. They may>>>>>> not depend on the internet as
>>>>>> much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How>>>>>> much starvation when
>>>>>> they can not get orders to deliver food?>>>>>>>>>> I think you are
>>>>>> overestimating what Ukraine could do and>>>>> underestimating the
>>>>>> resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they lived>>>>> the USSR for
>>>>>> most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of
>>>>>> life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of
>>>>>> repelling>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard
>>>>>> way. They>> may>>>>>>>> have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt
>>>>>> it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being
>>>>>> attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable
>>>>>> country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of
>>>>>> agrement that the>>>>> Eastern regions, that would willingly go back
>>>>>> to being Russia, be>>>>> allowed to, this whole thing might have been
>>>>>> unnecessary. It is the>>>>> likely outcome anyway.>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>> don?t think it would take too many assets to bring Russia or the USA
>>>>>> to a>>>> halt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power
>>>>>> stations. How many>>>> spares are a available, and how long to build
>>>>>> replacements? A few bridges>>>> taken out. Look how much havoc the
>>>>>> San Francisco Bay taken out in the>>>> Loma Prieta earthquake caused
>>>>>> and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people with a couple
>>>>>> semi?s worth of explosives.>>>>>> You do not want to test the resolve
>>>>>> of the second most powerful>>> military in the world by>>> attacking
>>>>>> their homeland. A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2
>>>>>> buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to
>>>>>> destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still
>>>>>> do not have a good count of how many people died.>>>>>> I realize
>>>>>> your post is a few days old but based on the Russian military>> 's
>>>>>> performance so far in Ukraine, it sure doesn't seem to be of the>>
>>>>>> same caliber it was years ago. Several former US generals on the>>
>>>>>> various cable networks all agree. Russia's invasion has been a>>
>>>>>> clusterfuck so far. Munition malfunctions, logistical problems>> and
>>>>>> a bunch of young conscripts who didn't even know why they were>>
>>>>>> there.>>>> It's too bad the nuke issue hangs over this. I think US
>>>>>> and NATO forces>> could make mincemeat of the 40 mile long line of
>>>>>> Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks,
>>>>>> all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would
>>>>>> probably due the trick.> > No doubt they are>>> fighting a "3d world"
>>>>>> style war, assuming there is> no real opposition other than small
>>>>>> arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian soldiers are
>>>>>> not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we really
>>>>>> don't want to see an effective> attack on Russian soil. That might be
>>>>>> what it takes to turn them into> an army out for revenge. Right now I
>>>>>> doubt Putin is doing a very good> job in selling this war to his
>>>>>> citizens. On the bright side, the big > money in Russia may be the
>>>>>> ones to stop this and knock a little shine> off of Putin. I still bet
>>>>>> he keeps the Donbass area.> .I think the Russian civilian population
>>>>>> is experiencing a similarenlightenment that the US civilian
>>>>>> population experienced startingin the mid 60's with the war in
>>>>>> Vietnam.Post Soviet Russia is not the same as it was prior to
>>>>>> 1991.Capitalism has flourished. The Internet exists. Social Mediais
>>>>>> available. A new generation of Russians exist with accessto
>>>>>> information about the world beyond their>>> borders.Putin is a hold
>>>>>> over from the Soviet days. He doesn't use theInternet. He doesn't
>>>>>> even live in the Kremlin ... and hasn'tfor years. He lives in a
>>>>>> "palace" built for him back in 2005in a very controversial "business"
>>>>>> arrangement with a wealthyRussian ally. He's out of touch and not
>>>>>> living in the worldof 2022.Ultimately I think the Russian people will
>>>>>> be the cause ofhis downfall. I also think that eventually the same
>>>>>> may betrue in China.If you keep your citizens like mushrooms ...
>>>>>> living in darkcaves and feeding them bullshit you can maintain power.
>>>>>> Butonce the sunlight starts to illuminate what is around them,the
>>>>>> revolts begin.-- This email has been checked for viruses by
>>>>>> AVG.https://www.avg.com>>>>>> Someone should start a go fund me to
>>>>>> finance Putins removal>> Some oligarch in CA offered $1M. Hell, I'd
>>>>>> contribute.> > ===> > Based on recent photos of Putin's very long
>>>>>> conference room table, I'd say that he is practicing extreme social
>>>>>> distancing.I've heard that he rarely leaves the "palace" that he
>>>>>> lives in and is pretty much isolated from contact with anyone.
>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder what air defenses his palace has?
>>>>
>>>> ===
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> We repeatedly tried to bomb Saddam Hussein's so called palaces and
>>>> failed to get him. 5 minutes after any attempt to bomb Putin would see
>>>> an armada of nuclear warheads heading for the US. It would be a
>>>> declaration of war, a war with no winners. Even if only 5% of Russian
>>>> nukes actually made it, the devastation would be unimaginable. Putin
>>>> will have to be removed from within.
>>> Wayne, unless the Russian people (or a covert action by us) take Putin
>>> out, I have a sinking feeling that we are heading for a nuclear exchange
>>> anyway. It might be the best option to counter invade Ukraine with
>>> overwhelming USA and NATO forces *now* and demoralize the Russian troops
>>> who are there ... seemingly ill -led.
>>>
>>> If Putin's objective to reestablish the Russian Empire sanctions aren't
>>> going to stop him. If the sanctions become too onerous to the
>>> Russian economy he could very well resort to a nuclear strike anyway,
>>> like a cornered snake.
>>>
>>> I am starting to get the feeling that the West is attempting to fight
>>> this action by Putin based on Western principled idealism, thinking
>>> that any sane person would recognize the hurt it brings on citizens.
>>>
>>> I don't think Putin shares "principled idealism" or even understands
>>> what it means.
>>
>> ==
>> It's likely that we are already engaged in covert actions in Ukraine.
>> Trying to take Putin out on his home turf would be extremely difficult
>> however and might very well energize Russian sentiment against us, just
>> as a similar attempt would energize US citizens. Any attempts at
>> targeted assassination would surely invite reciprocal actions and that
>> would go downhill quickly.
>>
>
> Since the ruble has lost 30% and is in free fall, I think the Russian
> People, who really don’t like Putin, would be happy he was gone. In the
> last 20 years, he has consolidated immense power in a very small group.
>

On Sat, 5 Mar 2022 11:27:33 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com>
wrote:

>On 3/5/2022 10:56 AM, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote:
>> On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 10:40:21 AM UTC-5, justan wrote:
>>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r
>>>> On 3/4/2022 11:02 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:> On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 8:41:21 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:>> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r>>>> On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since I don?t think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw>>>>>>>> at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the>>>>>>>> transformers at lots of major power substations.
>Then mine bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as>>>>>>>> how long is the cyber>> computers>>> going to be able to run on auxiliary power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much>>>>>>> like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the>>>>>>> technology they can bring to bear.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the modern technology, I don?t think Russia would do well. They may>>>>>> not depend on the internet as much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How>>>>>> much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?>>>>>>>>>> I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and>>>>> underestimating the resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they lived>>>>>
>the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They>> may>>>>>>>> have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the>>>>> Eastern regions, that would willingly go back to being Russia, be>>>>> allowed to, this whole thing might have been unnecessary. It is the>>>>> likely outcome anyway.>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don?t think it would take too many assets to bring Russia or the USA to a>>>> halt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power stations. How many>>>> spares are a available, and how long to build replacements? A few bridges>>>> taken out. Look how much havoc the San Francisco Bay taken out in the>>>> Loma
>Prieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people with a couple semi?s worth of explosives.>>>>>> You do not want to test the resolve of the second most powerful>>> military in the world by>>> attacking their homeland. A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2 buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still do not have a good count of how many people died.>>>>>> I realize your post is a few days old but based on the Russian military>> 's performance so far in Ukraine, it sure doesn't seem to be of the>> same caliber it was years ago. Several former US generals on the>> various cable networks all agree. Russia's invasion has been a>> clusterfuck so far. Munition malfunctions, logistical problems>> and a bunch of young conscripts who didn't even know why they were>> there.>>>> It's too bad the nuke issue hangs over this. I think US and NATO forces>> could make mincemeat
>of the 40 mile long line of Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks, all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would probably due the trick.> > No doubt they are>>> fighting a "3d world" style war, assuming there is> no real opposition other than small arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian soldiers are not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we really don't want to see an effective> attack on Russian soil. That might be what it takes to turn them into> an army out for revenge. Right now I doubt Putin is doing a very good> job in selling this war to his citizens. On the bright side, the big > money in Russia may be the ones to stop this and knock a little shine> off of Putin. I still bet he keeps the Donbass area.> .I think the Russian civilian population is experiencing a similarenlightenment that the US civilian population experienced startingin the mid 60's with the war in Vietnam.Post Soviet Russia is
>not the same as it was prior to 1991.Capitalism has flourished. The Internet exists. Social Mediais available. A new generation of Russians exist with accessto information about the world beyond their>>> borders.Putin is a hold over from the Soviet days. He doesn't use theInternet. He doesn't even live in the Kremlin ... and hasn'tfor years. He lives in a "palace" built for him back in 2005in a very controversial "business" arrangement with a wealthyRussian ally. He's out of touch and not living in the worldof 2022.Ultimately I think the Russian people will be the cause ofhis downfall. I also think that eventually the same may betrue in China.If you keep your citizens like mushrooms ... living in darkcaves and feeding them bullshit you can maintain power. Butonce the sunlight starts to illuminate what is around them,the revolts begin.-- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.https://www.avg.com>>>>>> Someone should start a go fund me to finance Putins removal>> Some oligarch
>in CA offered $1M. Hell, I'd contribute.> > ===> > Based on recent photos of Putin's very long conference room table, I'd say that he is practicing extreme social distancing.I've heard that he rarely leaves the "palace" that he lives in and is pretty much isolated from contact with anyone.
>>>
>>> I wonder what air defenses his palace has?
>>
>> ===
>>
>
>
>> We repeatedly tried to bomb Saddam Hussein's so called palaces and failed to get him. 5 minutes after any attempt to bomb Putin would see an armada of nuclear warheads heading for the US. It would be a declaration of war, a war with no winners. Even if only 5% of Russian nukes actually made it, the devastation would be unimaginable. Putin will have to be removed from within.
>
>Wayne, unless the Russian people (or a covert action by us) take Putin
>out, I have a sinking feeling that we are heading for a nuclear exchange
>anyway. It might be the best option to counter invade Ukraine with
>overwhelming USA and NATO forces *now* and demoralize the Russian troops
>who are there ... seemingly ill -led.
>
>If Putin's objective to reestablish the Russian Empire sanctions aren't
>going to stop him. If the sanctions become too onerous to the
>Russian economy he could very well resort to a nuclear strike anyway,
>like a cornered snake.
>
>I am starting to get the feeling that the West is attempting to fight
>this action by Putin based on Western principled idealism, thinking
>that any sane person would recognize the hurt it brings on citizens.
>
>I don't think Putin shares "principled idealism" or even understands
>what it means.
>
>

I think we should publicly stay back. We can support Ukraine quietly
and that makes the Russians look worse as the rag tag Ukraine army
hurts them. It was a losing war in Afghanistan that lead to toppling
Gorbachev. That was supposed to be easy too.

On Sun, 6 Mar 2022 07:37:40 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com>
wrote:

>On 3/5/2022 7:11 PM, Bill wrote:
>> waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 11:27:45 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>> On 3/5/2022 10:56 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>> On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 10:40:21 AM UTC-5, justan wrote:
>>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r
>>>>>>> On 3/4/2022 11:02 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:> On Friday,
>>>>>>> March 4, 2022 at 8:41:21 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:>> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022
>>>>>>> 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:>>>>> "Mr. Luddite"
>>>>>>> <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r>>>> On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM,
>>>>>>> gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
>>>>>>> <not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM,
>>>>>>> gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>
>>>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>
>>>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since I don?t
>>>>>>> think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up
>>>>>>> the>>>>>>>> transformers at lots of major power substations. Then
>>>>>>> mine bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the
>>>>>>> people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies.
>>>>>>> Would also stop most cyber attacks, as>>>>>>>> how long is the
>>>>>>> cyber>> computers>>> going to be able to run on auxiliary
>>>>>>> power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet
>>>>>>> repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine
>>>>>>> ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on
>>>>>>> their homeland seriously, much>>>>>>> like the US and they might send
>>>>>>> in a million soldiers with all the>>>>>>> technology they can bring to
>>>>>>> bear.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the modern technology, I don?t think
>>>>>>> Russia would do well. They may>>>>>> not depend on the internet as
>>>>>>> much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How>>>>>> much starvation when
>>>>>>> they can not get orders to deliver food?>>>>>>>>>> I think you are
>>>>>>> overestimating what Ukraine could do and>>>>> underestimating the
>>>>>>> resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they lived>>>>> the USSR for
>>>>>>> most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of
>>>>>>> life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of
>>>>>>> repelling>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard
>>>>>>> way. They>> may>>>>>>>> have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt
>>>>>>> it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being
>>>>>>> attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable
>>>>>>> country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of
>>>>>>> agrement that the>>>>> Eastern regions, that would willingly go back
>>>>>>> to being Russia, be>>>>> allowed to, this whole thing might have been
>>>>>>> unnecessary. It is the>>>>> likely outcome anyway.>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> don?t think it would take too many assets to bring Russia or the USA
>>>>>>> to a>>>> halt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power
>>>>>>> stations. How many>>>> spares are a available, and how long to build
>>>>>>> replacements? A few bridges>>>> taken out. Look how much havoc the
>>>>>>> San Francisco Bay taken out in the>>>> Loma Prieta earthquake caused
>>>>>>> and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people with a couple
>>>>>>> semi?s worth of explosives.>>>>>> You do not want to test the resolve
>>>>>>> of the second most powerful>>> military in the world by>>> attacking
>>>>>>> their homeland. A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2
>>>>>>> buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to
>>>>>>> destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still
>>>>>>> do not have a good count of how many people died.>>>>>> I realize
>>>>>>> your post is a few days old but based on the Russian military>> 's
>>>>>>> performance so far in Ukraine, it sure doesn't seem to be of the>>
>>>>>>> same caliber it was years ago. Several former US generals on the>>
>>>>>>> various cable networks all agree. Russia's invasion has been a>>
>>>>>>> clusterfuck so far. Munition malfunctions, logistical problems>> and
>>>>>>> a bunch of young conscripts who didn't even know why they were>>
>>>>>>> there.>>>> It's too bad the nuke issue hangs over this. I think US
>>>>>>> and NATO forces>> could make mincemeat of the 40 mile long line of
>>>>>>> Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks,
>>>>>>> all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would
>>>>>>> probably due the trick.> > No doubt they are>>> fighting a "3d world"
>>>>>>> style war, assuming there is> no real opposition other than small
>>>>>>> arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian soldiers are
>>>>>>> not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we really
>>>>>>> don't want to see an effective> attack on Russian soil. That might be
>>>>>>> what it takes to turn them into> an army out for revenge. Right now I
>>>>>>> doubt Putin is doing a very good> job in selling this war to his
>>>>>>> citizens. On the bright side, the big > money in Russia may be the
>>>>>>> ones to stop this and knock a little shine> off of Putin. I still bet
>>>>>>> he keeps the Donbass area.> .I think the Russian civilian population
>>>>>>> is experiencing a similarenlightenment that the US civilian
>>>>>>> population experienced startingin the mid 60's with the war in
>>>>>>> Vietnam.Post Soviet Russia is not the same as it was prior to
>>>>>>> 1991.Capitalism has flourished. The Internet exists. Social Mediais
>>>>>>> available. A new generation of Russians exist with accessto
>>>>>>> information about the world beyond their>>> borders.Putin is a hold
>>>>>>> over from the Soviet days. He doesn't use theInternet. He doesn't
>>>>>>> even live in the Kremlin ... and hasn'tfor years. He lives in a
>>>>>>> "palace" built for him back in 2005in a very controversial "business"
>>>>>>> arrangement with a wealthyRussian ally. He's out of touch and not
>>>>>>> living in the worldof 2022.Ultimately I think the Russian people will
>>>>>>> be the cause ofhis downfall. I also think that eventually the same
>>>>>>> may betrue in China.If you keep your citizens like mushrooms ...
>>>>>>> living in darkcaves and feeding them bullshit you can maintain power.
>>>>>>> Butonce the sunlight starts to illuminate what is around them,the
>>>>>>> revolts begin.-- This email has been checked for viruses by
>>>>>>> AVG.https://www.avg.com>>>>>> Someone should start a go fund me to
>>>>>>> finance Putins removal>> Some oligarch in CA offered $1M. Hell, I'd
>>>>>>> contribute.> > ===> > Based on recent photos of Putin's very long
>>>>>>> conference room table, I'd say that he is practicing extreme social
>>>>>>> distancing.I've heard that he rarely leaves the "palace" that he
>>>>>>> lives in and is pretty much isolated from contact with anyone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wonder what air defenses his palace has?
>>>>>
>>>>> ===
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> We repeatedly tried to bomb Saddam Hussein's so called palaces and
>>>>> failed to get him. 5 minutes after any attempt to bomb Putin would see
>>>>> an armada of nuclear warheads heading for the US. It would be a
>>>>> declaration of war, a war with no winners. Even if only 5% of Russian
>>>>> nukes actually made it, the devastation would be unimaginable. Putin
>>>>> will have to be removed from within.
>>>> Wayne, unless the Russian people (or a covert action by us) take Putin
>>>> out, I have a sinking feeling that we are heading for a nuclear exchange
>>>> anyway. It might be the best option to counter invade Ukraine with
>>>> overwhelming USA and NATO forces *now* and demoralize the Russian troops
>>>> who are there ... seemingly ill -led.
>>>>
>>>> If Putin's objective to reestablish the Russian Empire sanctions aren't
>>>> going to stop him. If the sanctions become too onerous to the
>>>> Russian economy he could very well resort to a nuclear strike anyway,
>>>> like a cornered snake.
>>>>
>>>> I am starting to get the feeling that the West is attempting to fight
>>>> this action by Putin based on Western principled idealism, thinking
>>>> that any sane person would recognize the hurt it brings on citizens.
>>>>
>>>> I don't think Putin shares "principled idealism" or even understands
>>>> what it means.
>>>
>>> ==
>>> It's likely that we are already engaged in covert actions in Ukraine.
>>> Trying to take Putin out on his home turf would be extremely difficult
>>> however and might very well energize Russian sentiment against us, just
>>> as a similar attempt would energize US citizens. Any attempts at
>>> targeted assassination would surely invite reciprocal actions and that
>>> would go downhill quickly.
>>>
>>
>> Since the ruble has lost 30% and is in free fall, I think the Russian
>> People, who really don’t like Putin, would be happy he was gone. In the
>> last 20 years, he has consolidated immense power in a very small group.
>>
>
>
>He rules by terrorizing or eliminating anyone who doesn't agree or
>support him. The similarities to Hitler in the late 30's are striking.

<gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Mar 2022 07:37:40 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 3/5/2022 7:11 PM, Bill wrote:
>>> waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 11:27:45 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>> On 3/5/2022 10:56 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 10:40:21 AM UTC-5, justan wrote:
>>>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r
>>>>>>>> On 3/4/2022 11:02 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:> On Friday,
>>>>>>>> March 4, 2022 at 8:41:21 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:>> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022
>>>>>>>> 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:>>>>> "Mr. Luddite"
>>>>>>>> <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r>>>> On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM,
>>>>>>>> gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
>>>>>>>> <not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM,
>>>>>>>> gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>
>>>>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since I don?t
>>>>>>>> think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transformers at lots of major power substations. Then
>>>>>>>> mine bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the
>>>>>>>> people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies.
>>>>>>>> Would also stop most cyber attacks, as>>>>>>>> how long is the
>>>>>>>> cyber>> computers>>> going to be able to run on auxiliary
>>>>>>>> power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet
>>>>>>>> repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine
>>>>>>>> ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on
>>>>>>>> their homeland seriously, much>>>>>>> like the US and they might send
>>>>>>>> in a million soldiers with all the>>>>>>> technology they can bring to
>>>>>>>> bear.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the modern technology, I don?t think
>>>>>>>> Russia would do well. They may>>>>>> not depend on the internet as
>>>>>>>> much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How>>>>>> much starvation when
>>>>>>>> they can not get orders to deliver food?>>>>>>>>>> I think you are
>>>>>>>> overestimating what Ukraine could do and>>>>> underestimating the
>>>>>>>> resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they lived>>>>> the USSR for
>>>>>>>> most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of
>>>>>>>> repelling>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard
>>>>>>>> way. They>> may>>>>>>>> have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt
>>>>>>>> it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being
>>>>>>>> attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable
>>>>>>>> country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of
>>>>>>>> agrement that the>>>>> Eastern regions, that would willingly go back
>>>>>>>> to being Russia, be>>>>> allowed to, this whole thing might have been
>>>>>>>> unnecessary. It is the>>>>> likely outcome anyway.>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> don?t think it would take too many assets to bring Russia or the USA
>>>>>>>> to a>>>> halt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power
>>>>>>>> stations. How many>>>> spares are a available, and how long to build
>>>>>>>> replacements? A few bridges>>>> taken out. Look how much havoc the
>>>>>>>> San Francisco Bay taken out in the>>>> Loma Prieta earthquake caused
>>>>>>>> and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people with a couple
>>>>>>>> semi?s worth of explosives.>>>>>> You do not want to test the resolve
>>>>>>>> of the second most powerful>>> military in the world by>>> attacking
>>>>>>>> their homeland. A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2
>>>>>>>> buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to
>>>>>>>> destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still
>>>>>>>> do not have a good count of how many people died.>>>>>> I realize
>>>>>>>> your post is a few days old but based on the Russian military>> 's
>>>>>>>> performance so far in Ukraine, it sure doesn't seem to be of the>>
>>>>>>>> same caliber it was years ago. Several former US generals on the>>
>>>>>>>> various cable networks all agree. Russia's invasion has been a>>
>>>>>>>> clusterfuck so far. Munition malfunctions, logistical problems>> and
>>>>>>>> a bunch of young conscripts who didn't even know why they were>>
>>>>>>>> there.>>>> It's too bad the nuke issue hangs over this. I think US
>>>>>>>> and NATO forces>> could make mincemeat of the 40 mile long line of
>>>>>>>> Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks,
>>>>>>>> all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would
>>>>>>>> probably due the trick.> > No doubt they are>>> fighting a "3d world"
>>>>>>>> style war, assuming there is> no real opposition other than small
>>>>>>>> arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian soldiers are
>>>>>>>> not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we really
>>>>>>>> don't want to see an effective> attack on Russian soil. That might be
>>>>>>>> what it takes to turn them into> an army out for revenge. Right now I
>>>>>>>> doubt Putin is doing a very good> job in selling this war to his
>>>>>>>> citizens. On the bright side, the big > money in Russia may be the
>>>>>>>> ones to stop this and knock a little shine> off of Putin. I still bet
>>>>>>>> he keeps the Donbass area.> .I think the Russian civilian population
>>>>>>>> is experiencing a similarenlightenment that the US civilian
>>>>>>>> population experienced startingin the mid 60's with the war in
>>>>>>>> Vietnam.Post Soviet Russia is not the same as it was prior to
>>>>>>>> 1991.Capitalism has flourished. The Internet exists. Social Mediais
>>>>>>>> available. A new generation of Russians exist with accessto
>>>>>>>> information about the world beyond their>>> borders.Putin is a hold
>>>>>>>> over from the Soviet days. He doesn't use theInternet. He doesn't
>>>>>>>> even live in the Kremlin ... and hasn'tfor years. He lives in a
>>>>>>>> "palace" built for him back in 2005in a very controversial "business"
>>>>>>>> arrangement with a wealthyRussian ally. He's out of touch and not
>>>>>>>> living in the worldof 2022.Ultimately I think the Russian people will
>>>>>>>> be the cause ofhis downfall. I also think that eventually the same
>>>>>>>> may betrue in China.If you keep your citizens like mushrooms ...
>>>>>>>> living in darkcaves and feeding them bullshit you can maintain power.
>>>>>>>> Butonce the sunlight starts to illuminate what is around them,the
>>>>>>>> revolts begin.-- This email has been checked for viruses by
>>>>>>>> AVG.https://www.avg.com>>>>>> Someone should start a go fund me to
>>>>>>>> finance Putins removal>> Some oligarch in CA offered $1M. Hell, I'd
>>>>>>>> contribute.> > ===> > Based on recent photos of Putin's very long
>>>>>>>> conference room table, I'd say that he is practicing extreme social
>>>>>>>> distancing.I've heard that he rarely leaves the "palace" that he
>>>>>>>> lives in and is pretty much isolated from contact with anyone.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I wonder what air defenses his palace has?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> We repeatedly tried to bomb Saddam Hussein's so called palaces and
>>>>>> failed to get him. 5 minutes after any attempt to bomb Putin would see
>>>>>> an armada of nuclear warheads heading for the US. It would be a
>>>>>> declaration of war, a war with no winners. Even if only 5% of Russian
>>>>>> nukes actually made it, the devastation would be unimaginable. Putin
>>>>>> will have to be removed from within.
>>>>> Wayne, unless the Russian people (or a covert action by us) take Putin
>>>>> out, I have a sinking feeling that we are heading for a nuclear exchange
>>>>> anyway. It might be the best option to counter invade Ukraine with
>>>>> overwhelming USA and NATO forces *now* and demoralize the Russian troops
>>>>> who are there ... seemingly ill -led.
>>>>>
>>>>> If Putin's objective to reestablish the Russian Empire sanctions aren't
>>>>> going to stop him. If the sanctions become too onerous to the
>>>>> Russian economy he could very well resort to a nuclear strike anyway,
>>>>> like a cornered snake.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am starting to get the feeling that the West is attempting to fight
>>>>> this action by Putin based on Western principled idealism, thinking
>>>>> that any sane person would recognize the hurt it brings on citizens.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think Putin shares "principled idealism" or even understands
>>>>> what it means.
>>>>
>>>> ==
>>>> It's likely that we are already engaged in covert actions in Ukraine.
>>>> Trying to take Putin out on his home turf would be extremely difficult
>>>> however and might very well energize Russian sentiment against us, just
>>>> as a similar attempt would energize US citizens. Any attempts at
>>>> targeted assassination would surely invite reciprocal actions and that
>>>> would go downhill quickly.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Since the ruble has lost 30% and is in free fall, I think the Russian
>>> People, who really don’t like Putin, would be happy he was gone. In the
>>> last 20 years, he has consolidated immense power in a very small group.
>>>
>>
>>
>> He rules by terrorizing or eliminating anyone who doesn't agree or
>> support him. The similarities to Hitler in the late 30's are striking.
>
> Not even close. I doubt Putin could get a thousand people to a rally
> and Hitler had the majority of his country behind him. Putin doesn't
> have the issues Hitler had either.
>

On 3/6/2022 6:52 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
> On Sat, 5 Mar 2022 11:27:33 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 3/5/2022 10:56 AM, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 10:40:21 AM UTC-5, justan wrote:
>>>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r
>>>>> On 3/4/2022 11:02 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:> On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 8:41:21 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:>> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r>>>> On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since I don?t think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw>>>>>>>> at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the>>>>>>>> transformers at lots of major power substations.
>> Then mine bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as>>>>>>>> how long is the cyber>> computers>>> going to be able to run on auxiliary power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much>>>>>>> like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the>>>>>>> technology they can bring to bear.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the modern technology, I don?t think Russia would do well. They may>>>>>> not depend on the internet as much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How>>>>>> much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?>>>>>>>>>> I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and>>>>> underestimating the resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they lived>>>>>
>> the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They>> may>>>>>>>> have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the>>>>> Eastern regions, that would willingly go back to being Russia, be>>>>> allowed to, this whole thing might have been unnecessary. It is the>>>>> likely outcome anyway.>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don?t think it would take too many assets to bring Russia or the USA to a>>>> halt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power stations. How many>>>> spares are a available, and how long to build replacements? A few bridges>>>> taken out. Look how much havoc the San Francisco Bay taken out in the>>>> Loma
>> Prieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people with a couple semi?s worth of explosives.>>>>>> You do not want to test the resolve of the second most powerful>>> military in the world by>>> attacking their homeland. A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2 buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still do not have a good count of how many people died.>>>>>> I realize your post is a few days old but based on the Russian military>> 's performance so far in Ukraine, it sure doesn't seem to be of the>> same caliber it was years ago. Several former US generals on the>> various cable networks all agree. Russia's invasion has been a>> clusterfuck so far. Munition malfunctions, logistical problems>> and a bunch of young conscripts who didn't even know why they were>> there.>>>> It's too bad the nuke issue hangs over this. I think US and NATO forces>> could make mincemeat
>> of the 40 mile long line of Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks, all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would probably due the trick.> > No doubt they are>>> fighting a "3d world" style war, assuming there is> no real opposition other than small arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian soldiers are not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we really don't want to see an effective> attack on Russian soil. That might be what it takes to turn them into> an army out for revenge. Right now I doubt Putin is doing a very good> job in selling this war to his citizens. On the bright side, the big > money in Russia may be the ones to stop this and knock a little shine> off of Putin. I still bet he keeps the Donbass area.> .I think the Russian civilian population is experiencing a similarenlightenment that the US civilian population experienced startingin the mid 60's with the war in Vietnam.Post Soviet Russia is
>> not the same as it was prior to 1991.Capitalism has flourished. The Internet exists. Social Mediais available. A new generation of Russians exist with accessto information about the world beyond their>>> borders.Putin is a hold over from the Soviet days. He doesn't use theInternet. He doesn't even live in the Kremlin ... and hasn'tfor years. He lives in a "palace" built for him back in 2005in a very controversial "business" arrangement with a wealthyRussian ally. He's out of touch and not living in the worldof 2022.Ultimately I think the Russian people will be the cause ofhis downfall. I also think that eventually the same may betrue in China.If you keep your citizens like mushrooms ... living in darkcaves and feeding them bullshit you can maintain power. Butonce the sunlight starts to illuminate what is around them,the revolts begin.-- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.https://www.avg.com>>>>>> Someone should start a go fund me to finance Putins removal>> Some oligarch
>> in CA offered $1M. Hell, I'd contribute.> > ===> > Based on recent photos of Putin's very long conference room table, I'd say that he is practicing extreme social distancing.I've heard that he rarely leaves the "palace" that he lives in and is pretty much isolated from contact with anyone.
>>>>
>>>> I wonder what air defenses his palace has?
>>>
>>> ===
>>>
>>
>>
>>> We repeatedly tried to bomb Saddam Hussein's so called palaces and failed to get him. 5 minutes after any attempt to bomb Putin would see an armada of nuclear warheads heading for the US. It would be a declaration of war, a war with no winners. Even if only 5% of Russian nukes actually made it, the devastation would be unimaginable. Putin will have to be removed from within.
>>
>> Wayne, unless the Russian people (or a covert action by us) take Putin
>> out, I have a sinking feeling that we are heading for a nuclear exchange
>> anyway. It might be the best option to counter invade Ukraine with
>> overwhelming USA and NATO forces *now* and demoralize the Russian troops
>> who are there ... seemingly ill -led.
>>
>> If Putin's objective to reestablish the Russian Empire sanctions aren't
>> going to stop him. If the sanctions become too onerous to the
>> Russian economy he could very well resort to a nuclear strike anyway,
>> like a cornered snake.
>>
>> I am starting to get the feeling that the West is attempting to fight
>> this action by Putin based on Western principled idealism, thinking
>> that any sane person would recognize the hurt it brings on citizens.
>>
>> I don't think Putin shares "principled idealism" or even understands
>> what it means.
>>
>>
>
> I think we should publicly stay back. We can support Ukraine quietly
> and that makes the Russians look worse as the rag tag Ukraine army
> hurts them. It was a losing war in Afghanistan that lead to toppling
> Gorbachev. That was supposed to be easy too.

Click here to read the complete article

On Sun, 6 Mar 2022 00:11:46 -0000 (UTC), Bill
<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:

>waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 11:27:45 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>> On 3/5/2022 10:56 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 10:40:21 AM UTC-5, justan wrote:
>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r
>>>>>> On 3/4/2022 11:02 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:> On Friday,
>>>>>> March 4, 2022 at 8:41:21 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:>> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022
>>>>>> 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:>>>>> "Mr. Luddite"
>>>>>> <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r>>>> On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM,
>>>>>> gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
>>>>>> <not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM,
>>>>>> gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>
>>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>
>>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com>
>>>>>> wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since I don?t
>>>>>> think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up
>>>>>> the>>>>>>>> transformers at lots of major power substations. Then
>>>>>> mine bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the
>>>>>> people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies.
>>>>>> Would also stop most cyber attacks, as>>>>>>>> how long is the
>>>>>> cyber>> computers>>> going to be able to run on auxiliary
>>>>>> power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet
>>>>>> repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine
>>>>>> ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on
>>>>>> their homeland seriously, much>>>>>>> like the US and they might send
>>>>>> in a million soldiers with all the>>>>>>> technology they can bring to
>>>>>> bear.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the modern technology, I don?t think
>>>>>> Russia would do well. They may>>>>>> not depend on the internet as
>>>>>> much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How>>>>>> much starvation when
>>>>>> they can not get orders to deliver food?>>>>>>>>>> I think you are
>>>>>> overestimating what Ukraine could do and>>>>> underestimating the
>>>>>> resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they lived>>>>> the USSR for
>>>>>> most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of
>>>>>> life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of
>>>>>> repelling>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard
>>>>>> way. They>> may>>>>>>>> have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt
>>>>>> it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being
>>>>>> attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable
>>>>>> country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of
>>>>>> agrement that the>>>>> Eastern regions, that would willingly go back
>>>>>> to being Russia, be>>>>> allowed to, this whole thing might have been
>>>>>> unnecessary. It is the>>>>> likely outcome anyway.>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>> don?t think it would take too many assets to bring Russia or the USA
>>>>>> to a>>>> halt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power
>>>>>> stations. How many>>>> spares are a available, and how long to build
>>>>>> replacements? A few bridges>>>> taken out. Look how much havoc the
>>>>>> San Francisco Bay taken out in the>>>> Loma Prieta earthquake caused
>>>>>> and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people with a couple
>>>>>> semi?s worth of explosives.>>>>>> You do not want to test the resolve
>>>>>> of the second most powerful>>> military in the world by>>> attacking
>>>>>> their homeland. A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2
>>>>>> buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to
>>>>>> destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still
>>>>>> do not have a good count of how many people died.>>>>>> I realize
>>>>>> your post is a few days old but based on the Russian military>> 's
>>>>>> performance so far in Ukraine, it sure doesn't seem to be of the>>
>>>>>> same caliber it was years ago. Several former US generals on the>>
>>>>>> various cable networks all agree. Russia's invasion has been a>>
>>>>>> clusterfuck so far. Munition malfunctions, logistical problems>> and
>>>>>> a bunch of young conscripts who didn't even know why they were>>
>>>>>> there.>>>> It's too bad the nuke issue hangs over this. I think US
>>>>>> and NATO forces>> could make mincemeat of the 40 mile long line of
>>>>>> Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks,
>>>>>> all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would
>>>>>> probably due the trick.> > No doubt they are>>> fighting a "3d world"
>>>>>> style war, assuming there is> no real opposition other than small
>>>>>> arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian soldiers are
>>>>>> not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we really
>>>>>> don't want to see an effective> attack on Russian soil. That might be
>>>>>> what it takes to turn them into> an army out for revenge. Right now I
>>>>>> doubt Putin is doing a very good> job in selling this war to his
>>>>>> citizens. On the bright side, the big > money in Russia may be the
>>>>>> ones to stop this and knock a little shine> off of Putin. I still bet
>>>>>> he keeps the Donbass area.> .I think the Russian civilian population
>>>>>> is experiencing a similarenlightenment that the US civilian
>>>>>> population experienced startingin the mid 60's with the war in
>>>>>> Vietnam.Post Soviet Russia is not the same as it was prior to
>>>>>> 1991.Capitalism has flourished. The Internet exists. Social Mediais
>>>>>> available. A new generation of Russians exist with accessto
>>>>>> information about the world beyond their>>> borders.Putin is a hold
>>>>>> over from the Soviet days. He doesn't use theInternet. He doesn't
>>>>>> even live in the Kremlin ... and hasn'tfor years. He lives in a
>>>>>> "palace" built for him back in 2005in a very controversial "business"
>>>>>> arrangement with a wealthyRussian ally. He's out of touch and not
>>>>>> living in the worldof 2022.Ultimately I think the Russian people will
>>>>>> be the cause ofhis downfall. I also think that eventually the same
>>>>>> may betrue in China.If you keep your citizens like mushrooms ...
>>>>>> living in darkcaves and feeding them bullshit you can maintain power.
>>>>>> Butonce the sunlight starts to illuminate what is around them,the
>>>>>> revolts begin.-- This email has been checked for viruses by
>>>>>> AVG.https://www.avg.com>>>>>> Someone should start a go fund me to
>>>>>> finance Putins removal>> Some oligarch in CA offered $1M. Hell, I'd
>>>>>> contribute.> > ===> > Based on recent photos of Putin's very long
>>>>>> conference room table, I'd say that he is practicing extreme social
>>>>>> distancing.I've heard that he rarely leaves the "palace" that he
>>>>>> lives in and is pretty much isolated from contact with anyone.
>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder what air defenses his palace has?
>>>>
>>>> ===
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> We repeatedly tried to bomb Saddam Hussein's so called palaces and
>>>> failed to get him. 5 minutes after any attempt to bomb Putin would see
>>>> an armada of nuclear warheads heading for the US. It would be a
>>>> declaration of war, a war with no winners. Even if only 5% of Russian
>>>> nukes actually made it, the devastation would be unimaginable. Putin
>>>> will have to be removed from within.
>>> Wayne, unless the Russian people (or a covert action by us) take Putin
>>> out, I have a sinking feeling that we are heading for a nuclear exchange
>>> anyway. It might be the best option to counter invade Ukraine with
>>> overwhelming USA and NATO forces *now* and demoralize the Russian troops
>>> who are there ... seemingly ill -led.
>>>
>>> If Putin's objective to reestablish the Russian Empire sanctions aren't
>>> going to stop him. If the sanctions become too onerous to the
>>> Russian economy he could very well resort to a nuclear strike anyway,
>>> like a cornered snake.
>>>
>>> I am starting to get the feeling that the West is attempting to fight
>>> this action by Putin based on Western principled idealism, thinking
>>> that any sane person would recognize the hurt it brings on citizens.
>>>
>>> I don't think Putin shares "principled idealism" or even understands
>>> what it means.
>>
>> ==
>> It's likely that we are already engaged in covert actions in Ukraine.
>> Trying to take Putin out on his home turf would be extremely difficult
>> however and might very well energize Russian sentiment against us, just
>> as a similar attempt would energize US citizens. Any attempts at
>> targeted assassination would surely invite reciprocal actions and that
>> would go downhill quickly.
>>
>
>Since the ruble has lost 30% and is in free fall, I think the Russian
>People, who really don’t like Putin, would be happy he was gone. In the
>last 20 years, he has consolidated immense power in a very small group.

Mr Robot <robot@mr_robot.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Mar 2022 00:11:46 -0000 (UTC), Bill
> <califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 11:27:45 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>> On 3/5/2022 10:56 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>> On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 10:40:21 AM UTC-5, justan wrote:
>>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r
>>>>>>> On 3/4/2022 11:02 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:> On Friday,
>>>>>>> March 4, 2022 at 8:41:21 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:>> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022
>>>>>>> 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:>>>>> "Mr. Luddite"
>>>>>>> <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r>>>> On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM,
>>>>>>> gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
>>>>>>> <not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM,
>>>>>>> gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>
>>>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>
>>>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since I don?t
>>>>>>> think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transformers at lots of major power substations. Then
>>>>>>> mine bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the
>>>>>>> people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies.
>>>>>>> Would also stop most cyber attacks, as>>>>>>>> how long is the
>>>>>>> cyber>> computers>>> going to be able to run on auxiliary
>>>>>>> power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet
>>>>>>> repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine
>>>>>>> ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on
>>>>>>> their homeland seriously, much>>>>>>> like the US and they might send
>>>>>>> in a million soldiers with all the>>>>>>> technology they can bring to
>>>>>>> bear.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the modern technology, I don?t think
>>>>>>> Russia would do well. They may>>>>>> not depend on the internet as
>>>>>>> much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How>>>>>> much starvation when
>>>>>>> they can not get orders to deliver food?>>>>>>>>>> I think you are
>>>>>>> overestimating what Ukraine could do and>>>>> underestimating the
>>>>>>> resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they lived>>>>> the USSR for
>>>>>>> most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of
>>>>>>> life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of
>>>>>>> repelling>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard
>>>>>>> way. They>> may>>>>>>>> have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt
>>>>>>> it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being
>>>>>>> attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable
>>>>>>> country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of
>>>>>>> agrement that the>>>>> Eastern regions, that would willingly go back
>>>>>>> to being Russia, be>>>>> allowed to, this whole thing might have been
>>>>>>> unnecessary. It is the>>>>> likely outcome anyway.>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> don?t think it would take too many assets to bring Russia or the USA
>>>>>>> to a>>>> halt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power
>>>>>>> stations. How many>>>> spares are a available, and how long to build
>>>>>>> replacements? A few bridges>>>> taken out. Look how much havoc the
>>>>>>> San Francisco Bay taken out in the>>>> Loma Prieta earthquake caused
>>>>>>> and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people with a couple
>>>>>>> semi?s worth of explosives.>>>>>> You do not want to test the resolve
>>>>>>> of the second most powerful>>> military in the world by>>> attacking
>>>>>>> their homeland. A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2
>>>>>>> buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to
>>>>>>> destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still
>>>>>>> do not have a good count of how many people died.>>>>>> I realize
>>>>>>> your post is a few days old but based on the Russian military>> 's
>>>>>>> performance so far in Ukraine, it sure doesn't seem to be of the>>
>>>>>>> same caliber it was years ago. Several former US generals on the>>
>>>>>>> various cable networks all agree. Russia's invasion has been a>>
>>>>>>> clusterfuck so far. Munition malfunctions, logistical problems>> and
>>>>>>> a bunch of young conscripts who didn't even know why they were>>
>>>>>>> there.>>>> It's too bad the nuke issue hangs over this. I think US
>>>>>>> and NATO forces>> could make mincemeat of the 40 mile long line of
>>>>>>> Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks,
>>>>>>> all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would
>>>>>>> probably due the trick.> > No doubt they are>>> fighting a "3d world"
>>>>>>> style war, assuming there is> no real opposition other than small
>>>>>>> arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian soldiers are
>>>>>>> not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we really
>>>>>>> don't want to see an effective> attack on Russian soil. That might be
>>>>>>> what it takes to turn them into> an army out for revenge. Right now I
>>>>>>> doubt Putin is doing a very good> job in selling this war to his
>>>>>>> citizens. On the bright side, the big > money in Russia may be the
>>>>>>> ones to stop this and knock a little shine> off of Putin. I still bet
>>>>>>> he keeps the Donbass area.> .I think the Russian civilian population
>>>>>>> is experiencing a similarenlightenment that the US civilian
>>>>>>> population experienced startingin the mid 60's with the war in
>>>>>>> Vietnam.Post Soviet Russia is not the same as it was prior to
>>>>>>> 1991.Capitalism has flourished. The Internet exists. Social Mediais
>>>>>>> available. A new generation of Russians exist with accessto
>>>>>>> information about the world beyond their>>> borders.Putin is a hold
>>>>>>> over from the Soviet days. He doesn't use theInternet. He doesn't
>>>>>>> even live in the Kremlin ... and hasn'tfor years. He lives in a
>>>>>>> "palace" built for him back in 2005in a very controversial "business"
>>>>>>> arrangement with a wealthyRussian ally. He's out of touch and not
>>>>>>> living in the worldof 2022.Ultimately I think the Russian people will
>>>>>>> be the cause ofhis downfall. I also think that eventually the same
>>>>>>> may betrue in China.If you keep your citizens like mushrooms ...
>>>>>>> living in darkcaves and feeding them bullshit you can maintain power.
>>>>>>> Butonce the sunlight starts to illuminate what is around them,the
>>>>>>> revolts begin.-- This email has been checked for viruses by
>>>>>>> AVG.https://www.avg.com>>>>>> Someone should start a go fund me to
>>>>>>> finance Putins removal>> Some oligarch in CA offered $1M. Hell, I'd
>>>>>>> contribute.> > ===> > Based on recent photos of Putin's very long
>>>>>>> conference room table, I'd say that he is practicing extreme social
>>>>>>> distancing.I've heard that he rarely leaves the "palace" that he
>>>>>>> lives in and is pretty much isolated from contact with anyone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wonder what air defenses his palace has?
>>>>>
>>>>> ===
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> We repeatedly tried to bomb Saddam Hussein's so called palaces and
>>>>> failed to get him. 5 minutes after any attempt to bomb Putin would see
>>>>> an armada of nuclear warheads heading for the US. It would be a
>>>>> declaration of war, a war with no winners. Even if only 5% of Russian
>>>>> nukes actually made it, the devastation would be unimaginable. Putin
>>>>> will have to be removed from within.
>>>> Wayne, unless the Russian people (or a covert action by us) take Putin
>>>> out, I have a sinking feeling that we are heading for a nuclear exchange
>>>> anyway. It might be the best option to counter invade Ukraine with
>>>> overwhelming USA and NATO forces *now* and demoralize the Russian troops
>>>> who are there ... seemingly ill -led.
>>>>
>>>> If Putin's objective to reestablish the Russian Empire sanctions aren't
>>>> going to stop him. If the sanctions become too onerous to the
>>>> Russian economy he could very well resort to a nuclear strike anyway,
>>>> like a cornered snake.
>>>>
>>>> I am starting to get the feeling that the West is attempting to fight
>>>> this action by Putin based on Western principled idealism, thinking
>>>> that any sane person would recognize the hurt it brings on citizens.
>>>>
>>>> I don't think Putin shares "principled idealism" or even understands
>>>> what it means.
>>>
>>> ==
>>> It's likely that we are already engaged in covert actions in Ukraine.
>>> Trying to take Putin out on his home turf would be extremely difficult
>>> however and might very well energize Russian sentiment against us, just
>>> as a similar attempt would energize US citizens. Any attempts at
>>> targeted assassination would surely invite reciprocal actions and that
>>> would go downhill quickly.
>>>
>>
>> Since the ruble has lost 30% and is in free fall, I think the Russian
>> People, who really don’t like Putin, would be happy he was gone. In the
>> last 20 years, he has consolidated immense power in a very small group.
>
> But you won't. You love him. You're a little commie shit.
>

On Mon, 7 Mar 2022 08:58:03 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com>
wrote:

>On 3/6/2022 6:52 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>> On Sat, 5 Mar 2022 11:27:33 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/5/2022 10:56 AM, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 10:40:21 AM UTC-5, justan wrote:
>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r
>>>>>> On 3/4/2022 11:02 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:> On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 8:41:21 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:>> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r>>>> On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since I don?t think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw>>>>>>>> at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the>>>>>>>> transformers at lots of major power
>substations.
>>> Then mine bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as>>>>>>>> how long is the cyber>> computers>>> going to be able to run on auxiliary power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much>>>>>>> like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the>>>>>>> technology they can bring to bear.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the modern technology, I don?t think Russia would do well. They may>>>>>> not depend on the internet as much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How>>>>>> much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?>>>>>>>>>> I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and>>>>> underestimating the resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they
lived>>>>>
>>> the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They>> may>>>>>>>> have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the>>>>> Eastern regions, that would willingly go back to being Russia, be>>>>> allowed to, this whole thing might have been unnecessary. It is the>>>>> likely outcome anyway.>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don?t think it would take too many assets to bring Russia or the USA to a>>>> halt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power stations. How many>>>> spares are a available, and how long to build replacements? A few bridges>>>> taken out. Look how much havoc the San Francisco Bay taken out in the>>>> Loma
>>> Prieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people with a couple semi?s worth of explosives.>>>>>> You do not want to test the resolve of the second most powerful>>> military in the world by>>> attacking their homeland. A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2 buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still do not have a good count of how many people died.>>>>>> I realize your post is a few days old but based on the Russian military>> 's performance so far in Ukraine, it sure doesn't seem to be of the>> same caliber it was years ago. Several former US generals on the>> various cable networks all agree. Russia's invasion has been a>> clusterfuck so far. Munition malfunctions, logistical problems>> and a bunch of young conscripts who didn't even know why they were>> there.>>>> It's too bad the nuke issue hangs over this. I think US and NATO forces>> could make
>mincemeat
>>> of the 40 mile long line of Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks, all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would probably due the trick.> > No doubt they are>>> fighting a "3d world" style war, assuming there is> no real opposition other than small arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian soldiers are not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we really don't want to see an effective> attack on Russian soil. That might be what it takes to turn them into> an army out for revenge. Right now I doubt Putin is doing a very good> job in selling this war to his citizens. On the bright side, the big > money in Russia may be the ones to stop this and knock a little shine> off of Putin. I still bet he keeps the Donbass area.> .I think the Russian civilian population is experiencing a similarenlightenment that the US civilian population experienced startingin the mid 60's with the war in Vietnam.Post Soviet Russia
>is
>>> not the same as it was prior to 1991.Capitalism has flourished. The Internet exists. Social Mediais available. A new generation of Russians exist with accessto information about the world beyond their>>> borders.Putin is a hold over from the Soviet days. He doesn't use theInternet. He doesn't even live in the Kremlin ... and hasn'tfor years. He lives in a "palace" built for him back in 2005in a very controversial "business" arrangement with a wealthyRussian ally. He's out of touch and not living in the worldof 2022.Ultimately I think the Russian people will be the cause ofhis downfall. I also think that eventually the same may betrue in China.If you keep your citizens like mushrooms ... living in darkcaves and feeding them bullshit you can maintain power. Butonce the sunlight starts to illuminate what is around them,the revolts begin.-- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.https://www.avg.com>>>>>> Someone should start a go fund me to finance Putins removal>> Some
>oligarch
>>> in CA offered $1M. Hell, I'd contribute.> > ===> > Based on recent photos of Putin's very long conference room table, I'd say that he is practicing extreme social distancing.I've heard that he rarely leaves the "palace" that he lives in and is pretty much isolated from contact with anyone.
>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder what air defenses his palace has?
>>>>
>>>> ===
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> We repeatedly tried to bomb Saddam Hussein's so called palaces and failed to get him. 5 minutes after any attempt to bomb Putin would see an armada of nuclear warheads heading for the US. It would be a declaration of war, a war with no winners. Even if only 5% of Russian nukes actually made it, the devastation would be unimaginable. Putin will have to be removed from within.
>>>
>>> Wayne, unless the Russian people (or a covert action by us) take Putin
>>> out, I have a sinking feeling that we are heading for a nuclear exchange
>>> anyway. It might be the best option to counter invade Ukraine with
>>> overwhelming USA and NATO forces *now* and demoralize the Russian troops
>>> who are there ... seemingly ill -led.
>>>
>>> If Putin's objective to reestablish the Russian Empire sanctions aren't
>>> going to stop him. If the sanctions become too onerous to the
>>> Russian economy he could very well resort to a nuclear strike anyway,
>>> like a cornered snake.
>>>
>>> I am starting to get the feeling that the West is attempting to fight
>>> this action by Putin based on Western principled idealism, thinking
>>> that any sane person would recognize the hurt it brings on citizens.
>>>
>>> I don't think Putin shares "principled idealism" or even understands
>>> what it means.
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>> I think we should publicly stay back. We can support Ukraine quietly
>> and that makes the Russians look worse as the rag tag Ukraine army
>> hurts them. It was a losing war in Afghanistan that lead to toppling
>> Gorbachev. That was supposed to be easy too.
>
>Putin isn't Gorbachev. Gorbachev was an enlightened leader who
>genuinely wanted to change the Soviet Union culture and global
>relations. It wasn't just due to Afghanistan.
>
>Putin is more like Stalin. And Hitler.

On 3/8/2022 8:37 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
> On Mon, 7 Mar 2022 08:58:03 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 3/6/2022 6:52 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>> On Sat, 5 Mar 2022 11:27:33 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 3/5/2022 10:56 AM, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>> On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 10:40:21 AM UTC-5, justan wrote:
>>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r
>>>>>>> On 3/4/2022 11:02 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:> On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 8:41:21 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:>> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r>>>> On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since I don?t think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw>>>>>>>> at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the>>>>>>>> transformers at lots of major power
>> substations.
>>>> Then mine bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as>>>>>>>> how long is the cyber>> computers>>> going to be able to run on auxiliary power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much>>>>>>> like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the>>>>>>> technology they can bring to bear.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the modern technology, I don?t think Russia would do well. They may>>>>>> not depend on the internet as much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How>>>>>> much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?>>>>>>>>>> I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and>>>>> underestimating the resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they
> lived>>>>>
>>>> the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They>> may>>>>>>>> have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the>>>>> Eastern regions, that would willingly go back to being Russia, be>>>>> allowed to, this whole thing might have been unnecessary. It is the>>>>> likely outcome anyway.>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don?t think it would take too many assets to bring Russia or the USA to a>>>> halt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power stations. How many>>>> spares are a available, and how long to build replacements? A few bridges>>>> taken out. Look how much havoc the San Francisco Bay taken out in the>>>> Loma
>>>> Prieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people with a couple semi?s worth of explosives.>>>>>> You do not want to test the resolve of the second most powerful>>> military in the world by>>> attacking their homeland. A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2 buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still do not have a good count of how many people died.>>>>>> I realize your post is a few days old but based on the Russian military>> 's performance so far in Ukraine, it sure doesn't seem to be of the>> same caliber it was years ago. Several former US generals on the>> various cable networks all agree. Russia's invasion has been a>> clusterfuck so far. Munition malfunctions, logistical problems>> and a bunch of young conscripts who didn't even know why they were>> there.>>>> It's too bad the nuke issue hangs over this. I think US and NATO forces>> could make
>> mincemeat
>>>> of the 40 mile long line of Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks, all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would probably due the trick.> > No doubt they are>>> fighting a "3d world" style war, assuming there is> no real opposition other than small arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian soldiers are not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we really don't want to see an effective> attack on Russian soil. That might be what it takes to turn them into> an army out for revenge. Right now I doubt Putin is doing a very good> job in selling this war to his citizens. On the bright side, the big > money in Russia may be the ones to stop this and knock a little shine> off of Putin. I still bet he keeps the Donbass area.> .I think the Russian civilian population is experiencing a similarenlightenment that the US civilian population experienced startingin the mid 60's with the war in Vietnam.Post Soviet Russia
>> is
>>>> not the same as it was prior to 1991.Capitalism has flourished. The Internet exists. Social Mediais available. A new generation of Russians exist with accessto information about the world beyond their>>> borders.Putin is a hold over from the Soviet days. He doesn't use theInternet. He doesn't even live in the Kremlin ... and hasn'tfor years. He lives in a "palace" built for him back in 2005in a very controversial "business" arrangement with a wealthyRussian ally. He's out of touch and not living in the worldof 2022.Ultimately I think the Russian people will be the cause ofhis downfall. I also think that eventually the same may betrue in China.If you keep your citizens like mushrooms ... living in darkcaves and feeding them bullshit you can maintain power. Butonce the sunlight starts to illuminate what is around them,the revolts begin.-- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.https://www.avg.com>>>>>> Someone should start a go fund me to finance Putins removal>> Some
>> oligarch
>>>> in CA offered $1M. Hell, I'd contribute.> > ===> > Based on recent photos of Putin's very long conference room table, I'd say that he is practicing extreme social distancing.I've heard that he rarely leaves the "palace" that he lives in and is pretty much isolated from contact with anyone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wonder what air defenses his palace has?
>>>>>
>>>>> ===
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> We repeatedly tried to bomb Saddam Hussein's so called palaces and failed to get him. 5 minutes after any attempt to bomb Putin would see an armada of nuclear warheads heading for the US. It would be a declaration of war, a war with no winners. Even if only 5% of Russian nukes actually made it, the devastation would be unimaginable. Putin will have to be removed from within.
>>>>
>>>> Wayne, unless the Russian people (or a covert action by us) take Putin
>>>> out, I have a sinking feeling that we are heading for a nuclear exchange
>>>> anyway. It might be the best option to counter invade Ukraine with
>>>> overwhelming USA and NATO forces *now* and demoralize the Russian troops
>>>> who are there ... seemingly ill -led.
>>>>
>>>> If Putin's objective to reestablish the Russian Empire sanctions aren't
>>>> going to stop him. If the sanctions become too onerous to the
>>>> Russian economy he could very well resort to a nuclear strike anyway,
>>>> like a cornered snake.
>>>>
>>>> I am starting to get the feeling that the West is attempting to fight
>>>> this action by Putin based on Western principled idealism, thinking
>>>> that any sane person would recognize the hurt it brings on citizens.
>>>>
>>>> I don't think Putin shares "principled idealism" or even understands
>>>> what it means.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>> I think we should publicly stay back. We can support Ukraine quietly
>>> and that makes the Russians look worse as the rag tag Ukraine army
>>> hurts them. It was a losing war in Afghanistan that lead to toppling
>>> Gorbachev. That was supposed to be easy too.
>>
>> Putin isn't Gorbachev. Gorbachev was an enlightened leader who
>> genuinely wanted to change the Soviet Union culture and global
>> relations. It wasn't just due to Afghanistan.
>>
>> Putin is more like Stalin. And Hitler.
>
> Nobody is like Stalin and Hitler. That is hyperbole.
> Putin is just the color of the month and this stupid war of his might
> lead to the big money in Russia pushing him out, maybe even whacking
> him.
> He even seems to be figuring out taking all of Ukraine isn't going to
> happen without a bigger war than he planned.
> It looks like he is giving the west a bail out option, pretty much
> what I predicted. If we let him keep Crimea, that he already has, let
> Donbass be independent and keep Ukraine out of NATO he will pull back.
> It might be as good as we will get without direct intervention and
> that will most likely turn out worse anyway.
Don't understand how you think comparing Putin to be more
like Stalin or Hitler as compared to Gorbachev is "hyperbole".

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