On Sat, 11 Jun 2022 10:30:26 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:

>On Sat, 11 Jun 2022 08:05:56 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 10 Jun 2022 19:23:27 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 10 Jun 2022 14:40:12 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 10 Jun 2022 02:34:28 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Thu, 09 Jun 2022 18:04:40 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Wed, 08 Jun 2022 13:52:22 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Wed, 08 Jun 2022 06:39:15 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Tue, 07 Jun 2022 12:15:48 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On Tue, 07 Jun 2022 10:00:32 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On Tue, 07 Jun 2022 00:13:07 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>On Tue, 7 Jun 2022 02:40:47 -0000 (UTC), Bill
>>>>>>>>>>><califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Maybe we should quit blaming guns and ask why so many teen suicides? Seems
>>>>>>>>>>>>as if the way now is to do a mass shooting and death by cop or do yourself
>>>>>>>>>>>>after posting on social media. Even Apple had a podcast on teen suicide.
>>>>>>>>>>>>Why so many shot in certain cultures in this country every weekend in some
>>>>>>>>>>>>cities? Blaming guns is doing nothing for the problem. Some guy recently
>>>>>>>>>>>>walked in to a hospital and started stabbing doctors and nurses. Blame the
>>>>>>>>>>>>knife?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>It is probably just a metaphor for how hopeless some teens feel. They
>>>>>>>>>>>think the only way they will ever get any attention is to go out in a
>>>>>>>>>>>blaze of gunfire.
>>>>>>>>>>>We have desensitized them to death and glorified murder with video
>>>>>>>>>>>games and movies. Then you have the Al Gore folks telling them there
>>>>>>>>>>>is no future anyway. The earth is doomed, the economy sucks and they
>>>>>>>>>>>don't see any job they want to do so what the fuck.
>>>>>>>>>>>End it now.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>The ironic thing is if it wasn't for those folks in media and the
>>>>>>>>>>>movies glamorizing "assault weapons" they would still be a '
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>And anyone who'd been associated with the military in the past 50
>>>>>>>>>>years. That's a hell of a lot of folks.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Most military folks came away with a "Been there done that" approach
>>>>>>>>>to weapons if they were actually exposed to them at all. I understand
>>>>>>>>>in the army and marines your weapon is your companion for most MOSs
>>>>>>>>>but in the air force, navy or coast guard, few people are actually
>>>>>>>>>handling any small arms. The CG is a bit different these days tho,
>>>>>>>>>since they became cops and not life savers.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Yes, but they're much more than a"niche item
>>>>>>>>only really known to a few collectors and gun folks." All those folks
>>>>>>>>who went to Kuwait, Iraq, and Afghanistan have a healthy knowledge of
>>>>>>>>them. And many of them are buying them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I bet, not as many as you think and it is still a very small subset of
>>>>>>>the American public. What percentage of adults served in any military
>>>>>>>capacity?
>>>>>>>Very few of them ever actually served in combat.
>>>>>>>I know lots of veterans and ex cops who have no interest in "ugly"
>>>>>>>guns. They may hunt or keep a firearm for home protection but it is
>>>>>>>usually a handgun or a shotgun. Deer hunters may have a nice rifle or
>>>>>>>two but they are not scary looking ones.
>>>>>>>Even my M1A is a traditional walnut stocked rifle. Unfortunately it is
>>>>>>>usually on ban lists.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Regardless. They are much more than a 'niche item'. With about 20
>>>>>>million out there,
>>>>>
>>>>>That is certainly true now. I was talking about the 80s when a couple
>>>>>of California legislators started making noise about a non-existent
>>>>>problem and got the whole thing on the front page. At that time they
>>>>>were a niche item with very little visibility to the regular
>>>>>sportsman. Once Boxer and Feinstein started talking about bans, people
>>>>>did what Americans do when they hear something might not be available,
>>>>>they bought them.
>>>>>At that time I doubt anyone would have called an AR a sporting rifle
>>>>>but once people had them, they adapted.
>>>>
>>>>The 80's?
>>>>
>>>>Who would have figured?
>>>
>>>Anyone who was actually paying attention. I thought it was a stupid
>>>campaign at the time and it took a decade to actually get the
>>>legislation they were looking for. By then, the noise around it had
>>>actually created a market where there had not really been one.
>>>Even the serious collectors were not really interested in AKs or ARs
>>>in the early 80s. I did know a guy with an M-60 tho.
>>
>>Oh. I suppose I wasn't paying enough attention to realize your comment
>>referred to something 40 years ago.
>
>Yup, this assault weapon thing has been 35-40 years in the making and
>the impetus was the threat of a ban on something most people never
>knew was a thing. The fastest way to sell something in the US is to
>say "Hurry, limited time offer", "Close out" or "Get them before they
>are gone".
>Remember the toilet paper?
>

That reminds me, there is a thread going on a real "boat" group about
cannons. I bet most people do not understand that they are legal as
long as they are muzzle loaders. It is the same rule as a black powder
pistol or rifle. It can be a little thing you can carry under your arm
or something you would need to tow behind a F-350 truck.

I know Joe thinks they are illegal. I wonder if someone is going to
tell him?
https://www.newsweek.com/biden-second-amendment-when-passed-couldnt-buy-cannon-1711480

Again this is a niche market that nobody talks about and most don't
even know about until some old biddy from California wants to close
the cannon loophole.

<gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Jun 2022 10:30:26 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 11 Jun 2022 08:05:56 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 10 Jun 2022 19:23:27 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 10 Jun 2022 14:40:12 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 10 Jun 2022 02:34:28 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, 09 Jun 2022 18:04:40 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, 08 Jun 2022 13:52:22 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, 08 Jun 2022 06:39:15 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 07 Jun 2022 12:15:48 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 07 Jun 2022 10:00:32 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 07 Jun 2022 00:13:07 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 7 Jun 2022 02:40:47 -0000 (UTC), Bill
>>>>>>>>>>>> <califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe we should quit blaming guns and ask why so many teen suicides? Seems
>>>>>>>>>>>>> as if the way now is to do a mass shooting and death by cop or do yourself
>>>>>>>>>>>>> after posting on social media. Even Apple had a podcast on teen suicide.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why so many shot in certain cultures in this country every weekend in some
>>>>>>>>>>>>> cities? Blaming guns is doing nothing for the problem. Some guy recently
>>>>>>>>>>>>> walked in to a hospital and started stabbing doctors and nurses. Blame the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> knife?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It is probably just a metaphor for how hopeless some teens feel. They
>>>>>>>>>>>> think the only way they will ever get any attention is to go out in a
>>>>>>>>>>>> blaze of gunfire.
>>>>>>>>>>>> We have desensitized them to death and glorified murder with video
>>>>>>>>>>>> games and movies. Then you have the Al Gore folks telling them there
>>>>>>>>>>>> is no future anyway. The earth is doomed, the economy sucks and they
>>>>>>>>>>>> don't see any job they want to do so what the fuck.
>>>>>>>>>>>> End it now.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The ironic thing is if it wasn't for those folks in media and the
>>>>>>>>>>>> movies glamorizing "assault weapons" they would still be a '
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And anyone who'd been associated with the military in the past 50
>>>>>>>>>>> years. That's a hell of a lot of folks.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Most military folks came away with a "Been there done that" approach
>>>>>>>>>> to weapons if they were actually exposed to them at all. I understand
>>>>>>>>>> in the army and marines your weapon is your companion for most MOSs
>>>>>>>>>> but in the air force, navy or coast guard, few people are actually
>>>>>>>>>> handling any small arms. The CG is a bit different these days tho,
>>>>>>>>>> since they became cops and not life savers.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes, but they're much more than a"niche item
>>>>>>>>> only really known to a few collectors and gun folks." All those folks
>>>>>>>>> who went to Kuwait, Iraq, and Afghanistan have a healthy knowledge of
>>>>>>>>> them. And many of them are buying them.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I bet, not as many as you think and it is still a very small subset of
>>>>>>>> the American public. What percentage of adults served in any military
>>>>>>>> capacity?
>>>>>>>> Very few of them ever actually served in combat.
>>>>>>>> I know lots of veterans and ex cops who have no interest in "ugly"
>>>>>>>> guns. They may hunt or keep a firearm for home protection but it is
>>>>>>>> usually a handgun or a shotgun. Deer hunters may have a nice rifle or
>>>>>>>> two but they are not scary looking ones.
>>>>>>>> Even my M1A is a traditional walnut stocked rifle. Unfortunately it is
>>>>>>>> usually on ban lists.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regardless. They are much more than a 'niche item'. With about 20
>>>>>>> million out there,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That is certainly true now. I was talking about the 80s when a couple
>>>>>> of California legislators started making noise about a non-existent
>>>>>> problem and got the whole thing on the front page. At that time they
>>>>>> were a niche item with very little visibility to the regular
>>>>>> sportsman. Once Boxer and Feinstein started talking about bans, people
>>>>>> did what Americans do when they hear something might not be available,
>>>>>> they bought them.
>>>>>> At that time I doubt anyone would have called an AR a sporting rifle
>>>>>> but once people had them, they adapted.
>>>>>
>>>>> The 80's?
>>>>>
>>>>> Who would have figured?
>>>>
>>>> Anyone who was actually paying attention. I thought it was a stupid
>>>> campaign at the time and it took a decade to actually get the
>>>> legislation they were looking for. By then, the noise around it had
>>>> actually created a market where there had not really been one.
>>>> Even the serious collectors were not really interested in AKs or ARs
>>>> in the early 80s. I did know a guy with an M-60 tho.
>>>
>>> Oh. I suppose I wasn't paying enough attention to realize your comment
>>> referred to something 40 years ago.
>>
>> Yup, this assault weapon thing has been 35-40 years in the making and
>> the impetus was the threat of a ban on something most people never
>> knew was a thing. The fastest way to sell something in the US is to
>> say "Hurry, limited time offer", "Close out" or "Get them before they
>> are gone".
>> Remember the toilet paper?
>>
>
> That reminds me, there is a thread going on a real "boat" group about
> cannons. I bet most people do not understand that they are legal as
> long as they are muzzle loaders. It is the same rule as a black powder
> pistol or rifle. It can be a little thing you can carry under your arm
> or something you would need to tow behind a F-350 truck.
>
> I know Joe thinks they are illegal. I wonder if someone is going to
> tell him?
> https://www.newsweek.com/biden-second-amendment-when-passed-couldnt-buy-cannon-1711480
>
> Again this is a niche market that nobody talks about and most don't
> even know about until some old biddy from California wants to close
> the cannon loophole.
>
>

You used to be able to get a permit for breach loaders also. Growing up,
there was a local gun shop called Cannon Corner. They also supplied
cannons and once in awhile you would see someone towing one up,the highway.
They had a range up near Vallejo, CA.

On Sun, 12 Jun 2022 01:53:18 -0000 (UTC), Bill
<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:

><gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 11 Jun 2022 10:30:26 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 11 Jun 2022 08:05:56 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 10 Jun 2022 19:23:27 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 10 Jun 2022 14:40:12 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 10 Jun 2022 02:34:28 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, 09 Jun 2022 18:04:40 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, 08 Jun 2022 13:52:22 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 08 Jun 2022 06:39:15 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 07 Jun 2022 12:15:48 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 07 Jun 2022 10:00:32 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 07 Jun 2022 00:13:07 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 7 Jun 2022 02:40:47 -0000 (UTC), Bill
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe we should quit blaming guns and ask why so many teen suicides? Seems
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as if the way now is to do a mass shooting and death by cop or do yourself
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after posting on social media. Even Apple had a podcast on teen suicide.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why so many shot in certain cultures in this country every weekend in some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cities? Blaming guns is doing nothing for the problem. Some guy recently
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> walked in to a hospital and started stabbing doctors and nurses. Blame the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knife?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is probably just a metaphor for how hopeless some teens feel. They
>>>>>>>>>>>>> think the only way they will ever get any attention is to go out in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> blaze of gunfire.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> We have desensitized them to death and glorified murder with video
>>>>>>>>>>>>> games and movies. Then you have the Al Gore folks telling them there
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is no future anyway. The earth is doomed, the economy sucks and they
>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't see any job they want to do so what the fuck.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> End it now.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The ironic thing is if it wasn't for those folks in media and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> movies glamorizing "assault weapons" they would still be a '
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And anyone who'd been associated with the military in the past 50
>>>>>>>>>>>> years. That's a hell of a lot of folks.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Most military folks came away with a "Been there done that" approach
>>>>>>>>>>> to weapons if they were actually exposed to them at all. I understand
>>>>>>>>>>> in the army and marines your weapon is your companion for most MOSs
>>>>>>>>>>> but in the air force, navy or coast guard, few people are actually
>>>>>>>>>>> handling any small arms. The CG is a bit different these days tho,
>>>>>>>>>>> since they became cops and not life savers.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yes, but they're much more than a"niche item
>>>>>>>>>> only really known to a few collectors and gun folks." All those folks
>>>>>>>>>> who went to Kuwait, Iraq, and Afghanistan have a healthy knowledge of
>>>>>>>>>> them. And many of them are buying them.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I bet, not as many as you think and it is still a very small subset of
>>>>>>>>> the American public. What percentage of adults served in any military
>>>>>>>>> capacity?
>>>>>>>>> Very few of them ever actually served in combat.
>>>>>>>>> I know lots of veterans and ex cops who have no interest in "ugly"
>>>>>>>>> guns. They may hunt or keep a firearm for home protection but it is
>>>>>>>>> usually a handgun or a shotgun. Deer hunters may have a nice rifle or
>>>>>>>>> two but they are not scary looking ones.
>>>>>>>>> Even my M1A is a traditional walnut stocked rifle. Unfortunately it is
>>>>>>>>> usually on ban lists.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regardless. They are much more than a 'niche item'. With about 20
>>>>>>>> million out there,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That is certainly true now. I was talking about the 80s when a couple
>>>>>>> of California legislators started making noise about a non-existent
>>>>>>> problem and got the whole thing on the front page. At that time they
>>>>>>> were a niche item with very little visibility to the regular
>>>>>>> sportsman. Once Boxer and Feinstein started talking about bans, people
>>>>>>> did what Americans do when they hear something might not be available,
>>>>>>> they bought them.
>>>>>>> At that time I doubt anyone would have called an AR a sporting rifle
>>>>>>> but once people had them, they adapted.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The 80's?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Who would have figured?
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyone who was actually paying attention. I thought it was a stupid
>>>>> campaign at the time and it took a decade to actually get the
>>>>> legislation they were looking for. By then, the noise around it had
>>>>> actually created a market where there had not really been one.
>>>>> Even the serious collectors were not really interested in AKs or ARs
>>>>> in the early 80s. I did know a guy with an M-60 tho.
>>>>
>>>> Oh. I suppose I wasn't paying enough attention to realize your comment
>>>> referred to something 40 years ago.
>>>
>>> Yup, this assault weapon thing has been 35-40 years in the making and
>>> the impetus was the threat of a ban on something most people never
>>> knew was a thing. The fastest way to sell something in the US is to
>>> say "Hurry, limited time offer", "Close out" or "Get them before they
>>> are gone".
>>> Remember the toilet paper?
>>>
>>
>> That reminds me, there is a thread going on a real "boat" group about
>> cannons. I bet most people do not understand that they are legal as
>> long as they are muzzle loaders. It is the same rule as a black powder
>> pistol or rifle. It can be a little thing you can carry under your arm
>> or something you would need to tow behind a F-350 truck.
>>
>> I know Joe thinks they are illegal. I wonder if someone is going to
>> tell him?
>> https://www.newsweek.com/biden-second-amendment-when-passed-couldnt-buy-cannon-1711480
>>
>> Again this is a niche market that nobody talks about and most don't
>> even know about until some old biddy from California wants to close
>> the cannon loophole.
>>
>>
>
>You used to be able to get a permit for breach loaders also. Growing up,
>there was a local gun shop called Cannon Corner. They also supplied
>cannons and once in awhile you would see someone towing one up,the highway.
> They had a range up near Vallejo, CA.

On Sat, 11 Jun 2022 20:50:48 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:

>On Sat, 11 Jun 2022 10:30:26 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 11 Jun 2022 08:05:56 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 10 Jun 2022 19:23:27 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 10 Jun 2022 14:40:12 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Fri, 10 Jun 2022 02:34:28 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Thu, 09 Jun 2022 18:04:40 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Wed, 08 Jun 2022 13:52:22 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Wed, 08 Jun 2022 06:39:15 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On Tue, 07 Jun 2022 12:15:48 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On Tue, 07 Jun 2022 10:00:32 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>On Tue, 07 Jun 2022 00:13:07 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>On Tue, 7 Jun 2022 02:40:47 -0000 (UTC), Bill
>>>>>>>>>>>><califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Maybe we should quit blaming guns and ask why so many teen suicides? Seems
>>>>>>>>>>>>>as if the way now is to do a mass shooting and death by cop or do yourself
>>>>>>>>>>>>>after posting on social media. Even Apple had a podcast on teen suicide.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Why so many shot in certain cultures in this country every weekend in some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>cities? Blaming guns is doing nothing for the problem. Some guy recently
>>>>>>>>>>>>>walked in to a hospital and started stabbing doctors and nurses. Blame the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>knife?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>It is probably just a metaphor for how hopeless some teens feel. They
>>>>>>>>>>>>think the only way they will ever get any attention is to go out in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>blaze of gunfire.
>>>>>>>>>>>>We have desensitized them to death and glorified murder with video
>>>>>>>>>>>>games and movies. Then you have the Al Gore folks telling them there
>>>>>>>>>>>>is no future anyway. The earth is doomed, the economy sucks and they
>>>>>>>>>>>>don't see any job they want to do so what the fuck.
>>>>>>>>>>>>End it now.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>The ironic thing is if it wasn't for those folks in media and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>movies glamorizing "assault weapons" they would still be a '
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>And anyone who'd been associated with the military in the past 50
>>>>>>>>>>>years. That's a hell of a lot of folks.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Most military folks came away with a "Been there done that" approach
>>>>>>>>>>to weapons if they were actually exposed to them at all. I understand
>>>>>>>>>>in the army and marines your weapon is your companion for most MOSs
>>>>>>>>>>but in the air force, navy or coast guard, few people are actually
>>>>>>>>>>handling any small arms. The CG is a bit different these days tho,
>>>>>>>>>>since they became cops and not life savers.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Yes, but they're much more than a"niche item
>>>>>>>>>only really known to a few collectors and gun folks." All those folks
>>>>>>>>>who went to Kuwait, Iraq, and Afghanistan have a healthy knowledge of
>>>>>>>>>them. And many of them are buying them.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I bet, not as many as you think and it is still a very small subset of
>>>>>>>>the American public. What percentage of adults served in any military
>>>>>>>>capacity?
>>>>>>>>Very few of them ever actually served in combat.
>>>>>>>>I know lots of veterans and ex cops who have no interest in "ugly"
>>>>>>>>guns. They may hunt or keep a firearm for home protection but it is
>>>>>>>>usually a handgun or a shotgun. Deer hunters may have a nice rifle or
>>>>>>>>two but they are not scary looking ones.
>>>>>>>>Even my M1A is a traditional walnut stocked rifle. Unfortunately it is
>>>>>>>>usually on ban lists.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Regardless. They are much more than a 'niche item'. With about 20
>>>>>>>million out there,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>That is certainly true now. I was talking about the 80s when a couple
>>>>>>of California legislators started making noise about a non-existent
>>>>>>problem and got the whole thing on the front page. At that time they
>>>>>>were a niche item with very little visibility to the regular
>>>>>>sportsman. Once Boxer and Feinstein started talking about bans, people
>>>>>>did what Americans do when they hear something might not be available,
>>>>>>they bought them.
>>>>>>At that time I doubt anyone would have called an AR a sporting rifle
>>>>>>but once people had them, they adapted.
>>>>>
>>>>>The 80's?
>>>>>
>>>>>Who would have figured?
>>>>
>>>>Anyone who was actually paying attention. I thought it was a stupid
>>>>campaign at the time and it took a decade to actually get the
>>>>legislation they were looking for. By then, the noise around it had
>>>>actually created a market where there had not really been one.
>>>>Even the serious collectors were not really interested in AKs or ARs
>>>>in the early 80s. I did know a guy with an M-60 tho.
>>>
>>>Oh. I suppose I wasn't paying enough attention to realize your comment
>>>referred to something 40 years ago.
>>
>>Yup, this assault weapon thing has been 35-40 years in the making and
>>the impetus was the threat of a ban on something most people never
>>knew was a thing. The fastest way to sell something in the US is to
>>say "Hurry, limited time offer", "Close out" or "Get them before they
>>are gone".
>>Remember the toilet paper?
>>
>
>That reminds me, there is a thread going on a real "boat" group about
>cannons. I bet most people do not understand that they are legal as
>long as they are muzzle loaders. It is the same rule as a black powder
>pistol or rifle. It can be a little thing you can carry under your arm
>or something you would need to tow behind a F-350 truck.
>
>I know Joe thinks they are illegal. I wonder if someone is going to
>tell him?
>https://www.newsweek.com/biden-second-amendment-when-passed-couldnt-buy-cannon-1711480
>
>Again this is a niche market that nobody talks about and most don't
>even know about until some old biddy from California wants to close
>the cannon loophole.

In this case, I agree it's a 'niche' market. But not in the AR-15
case.

On Sun, 12 Jun 2022 16:42:03 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:

>On Sat, 11 Jun 2022 20:50:48 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 11 Jun 2022 10:30:26 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 11 Jun 2022 08:05:56 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 10 Jun 2022 19:23:27 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Fri, 10 Jun 2022 14:40:12 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Fri, 10 Jun 2022 02:34:28 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Thu, 09 Jun 2022 18:04:40 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Wed, 08 Jun 2022 13:52:22 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 08 Jun 2022 06:39:15 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On Tue, 07 Jun 2022 12:15:48 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>On Tue, 07 Jun 2022 10:00:32 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>On Tue, 07 Jun 2022 00:13:07 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Tue, 7 Jun 2022 02:40:47 -0000 (UTC), Bill
>>>>>>>>>>>>><califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Maybe we should quit blaming guns and ask why so many teen suicides? Seems
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>as if the way now is to do a mass shooting and death by cop or do yourself
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>after posting on social media. Even Apple had a podcast on teen suicide.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Why so many shot in certain cultures in this country every weekend in some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>cities? Blaming guns is doing nothing for the problem. Some guy recently
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>walked in to a hospital and started stabbing doctors and nurses. Blame the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>knife?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>It is probably just a metaphor for how hopeless some teens feel. They
>>>>>>>>>>>>>think the only way they will ever get any attention is to go out in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>blaze of gunfire.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>We have desensitized them to death and glorified murder with video
>>>>>>>>>>>>>games and movies. Then you have the Al Gore folks telling them there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>is no future anyway. The earth is doomed, the economy sucks and they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>don't see any job they want to do so what the fuck.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>End it now.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>The ironic thing is if it wasn't for those folks in media and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>movies glamorizing "assault weapons" they would still be a '
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>And anyone who'd been associated with the military in the past 50
>>>>>>>>>>>>years. That's a hell of a lot of folks.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Most military folks came away with a "Been there done that" approach
>>>>>>>>>>>to weapons if they were actually exposed to them at all. I understand
>>>>>>>>>>>in the army and marines your weapon is your companion for most MOSs
>>>>>>>>>>>but in the air force, navy or coast guard, few people are actually
>>>>>>>>>>>handling any small arms. The CG is a bit different these days tho,
>>>>>>>>>>>since they became cops and not life savers.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Yes, but they're much more than a"niche item
>>>>>>>>>>only really known to a few collectors and gun folks." All those folks
>>>>>>>>>>who went to Kuwait, Iraq, and Afghanistan have a healthy knowledge of
>>>>>>>>>>them. And many of them are buying them.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I bet, not as many as you think and it is still a very small subset of
>>>>>>>>>the American public. What percentage of adults served in any military
>>>>>>>>>capacity?
>>>>>>>>>Very few of them ever actually served in combat.
>>>>>>>>>I know lots of veterans and ex cops who have no interest in "ugly"
>>>>>>>>>guns. They may hunt or keep a firearm for home protection but it is
>>>>>>>>>usually a handgun or a shotgun. Deer hunters may have a nice rifle or
>>>>>>>>>two but they are not scary looking ones.
>>>>>>>>>Even my M1A is a traditional walnut stocked rifle. Unfortunately it is
>>>>>>>>>usually on ban lists.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Regardless. They are much more than a 'niche item'. With about 20
>>>>>>>>million out there,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>That is certainly true now. I was talking about the 80s when a couple
>>>>>>>of California legislators started making noise about a non-existent
>>>>>>>problem and got the whole thing on the front page. At that time they
>>>>>>>were a niche item with very little visibility to the regular
>>>>>>>sportsman. Once Boxer and Feinstein started talking about bans, people
>>>>>>>did what Americans do when they hear something might not be available,
>>>>>>>they bought them.
>>>>>>>At that time I doubt anyone would have called an AR a sporting rifle
>>>>>>>but once people had them, they adapted.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The 80's?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Who would have figured?
>>>>>
>>>>>Anyone who was actually paying attention. I thought it was a stupid
>>>>>campaign at the time and it took a decade to actually get the
>>>>>legislation they were looking for. By then, the noise around it had
>>>>>actually created a market where there had not really been one.
>>>>>Even the serious collectors were not really interested in AKs or ARs
>>>>>in the early 80s. I did know a guy with an M-60 tho.
>>>>
>>>>Oh. I suppose I wasn't paying enough attention to realize your comment
>>>>referred to something 40 years ago.
>>>
>>>Yup, this assault weapon thing has been 35-40 years in the making and
>>>the impetus was the threat of a ban on something most people never
>>>knew was a thing. The fastest way to sell something in the US is to
>>>say "Hurry, limited time offer", "Close out" or "Get them before they
>>>are gone".
>>>Remember the toilet paper?
>>>
>>
>>That reminds me, there is a thread going on a real "boat" group about
>>cannons. I bet most people do not understand that they are legal as
>>long as they are muzzle loaders. It is the same rule as a black powder
>>pistol or rifle. It can be a little thing you can carry under your arm
>>or something you would need to tow behind a F-350 truck.
>>
>>I know Joe thinks they are illegal. I wonder if someone is going to
>>tell him?
>>https://www.newsweek.com/biden-second-amendment-when-passed-couldnt-buy-cannon-1711480
>>
>>Again this is a niche market that nobody talks about and most don't
>>even know about until some old biddy from California wants to close
>>the cannon loophole.
>
>In this case, I agree it's a 'niche' market. But not in the AR-15
>case.

On Sun, 12 Jun 2022 21:06:18 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:

>On Sun, 12 Jun 2022 16:42:03 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 11 Jun 2022 20:50:48 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 11 Jun 2022 10:30:26 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sat, 11 Jun 2022 08:05:56 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Fri, 10 Jun 2022 19:23:27 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Fri, 10 Jun 2022 14:40:12 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Fri, 10 Jun 2022 02:34:28 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Thu, 09 Jun 2022 18:04:40 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 08 Jun 2022 13:52:22 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 08 Jun 2022 06:39:15 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>On Tue, 07 Jun 2022 12:15:48 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>On Tue, 07 Jun 2022 10:00:32 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Tue, 07 Jun 2022 00:13:07 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Tue, 7 Jun 2022 02:40:47 -0000 (UTC), Bill
>>>>>>>>>>>>>><califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Maybe we should quit blaming guns and ask why so many teen suicides? Seems
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>as if the way now is to do a mass shooting and death by cop or do yourself
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>after posting on social media. Even Apple had a podcast on teen suicide.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Why so many shot in certain cultures in this country every weekend in some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>cities? Blaming guns is doing nothing for the problem. Some guy recently
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>walked in to a hospital and started stabbing doctors and nurses. Blame the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>knife?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>It is probably just a metaphor for how hopeless some teens feel. They
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>think the only way they will ever get any attention is to go out in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>blaze of gunfire.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>We have desensitized them to death and glorified murder with video
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>games and movies. Then you have the Al Gore folks telling them there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>is no future anyway. The earth is doomed, the economy sucks and they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>don't see any job they want to do so what the fuck.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>End it now.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The ironic thing is if it wasn't for those folks in media and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>movies glamorizing "assault weapons" they would still be a '
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>And anyone who'd been associated with the military in the past 50
>>>>>>>>>>>>>years. That's a hell of a lot of folks.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Most military folks came away with a "Been there done that" approach
>>>>>>>>>>>>to weapons if they were actually exposed to them at all. I understand
>>>>>>>>>>>>in the army and marines your weapon is your companion for most MOSs
>>>>>>>>>>>>but in the air force, navy or coast guard, few people are actually
>>>>>>>>>>>>handling any small arms. The CG is a bit different these days tho,
>>>>>>>>>>>>since they became cops and not life savers.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Yes, but they're much more than a"niche item
>>>>>>>>>>>only really known to a few collectors and gun folks." All those folks
>>>>>>>>>>>who went to Kuwait, Iraq, and Afghanistan have a healthy knowledge of
>>>>>>>>>>>them. And many of them are buying them.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I bet, not as many as you think and it is still a very small subset of
>>>>>>>>>>the American public. What percentage of adults served in any military
>>>>>>>>>>capacity?
>>>>>>>>>>Very few of them ever actually served in combat.
>>>>>>>>>>I know lots of veterans and ex cops who have no interest in "ugly"
>>>>>>>>>>guns. They may hunt or keep a firearm for home protection but it is
>>>>>>>>>>usually a handgun or a shotgun. Deer hunters may have a nice rifle or
>>>>>>>>>>two but they are not scary looking ones.
>>>>>>>>>>Even my M1A is a traditional walnut stocked rifle. Unfortunately it is
>>>>>>>>>>usually on ban lists.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Regardless. They are much more than a 'niche item'. With about 20
>>>>>>>>>million out there,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>That is certainly true now. I was talking about the 80s when a couple
>>>>>>>>of California legislators started making noise about a non-existent
>>>>>>>>problem and got the whole thing on the front page. At that time they
>>>>>>>>were a niche item with very little visibility to the regular
>>>>>>>>sportsman. Once Boxer and Feinstein started talking about bans, people
>>>>>>>>did what Americans do when they hear something might not be available,
>>>>>>>>they bought them.
>>>>>>>>At that time I doubt anyone would have called an AR a sporting rifle
>>>>>>>>but once people had them, they adapted.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The 80's?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Who would have figured?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Anyone who was actually paying attention. I thought it was a stupid
>>>>>>campaign at the time and it took a decade to actually get the
>>>>>>legislation they were looking for. By then, the noise around it had
>>>>>>actually created a market where there had not really been one.
>>>>>>Even the serious collectors were not really interested in AKs or ARs
>>>>>>in the early 80s. I did know a guy with an M-60 tho.
>>>>>
>>>>>Oh. I suppose I wasn't paying enough attention to realize your comment
>>>>>referred to something 40 years ago.
>>>>
>>>>Yup, this assault weapon thing has been 35-40 years in the making and
>>>>the impetus was the threat of a ban on something most people never
>>>>knew was a thing. The fastest way to sell something in the US is to
>>>>say "Hurry, limited time offer", "Close out" or "Get them before they
>>>>are gone".
>>>>Remember the toilet paper?
>>>>
>>>
>>>That reminds me, there is a thread going on a real "boat" group about
>>>cannons. I bet most people do not understand that they are legal as
>>>long as they are muzzle loaders. It is the same rule as a black powder
>>>pistol or rifle. It can be a little thing you can carry under your arm
>>>or something you would need to tow behind a F-350 truck.
>>>
>>>I know Joe thinks they are illegal. I wonder if someone is going to
>>>tell him?
>>>https://www.newsweek.com/biden-second-amendment-when-passed-couldnt-buy-cannon-1711480
>>>
>>>Again this is a niche market that nobody talks about and most don't
>>>even know about until some old biddy from California wants to close
>>>the cannon loophole.
>>
>>In this case, I agree it's a 'niche' market. But not in the AR-15
>>case.
>
>How many people did you know with an AR in 1980?
>The point is, in the 80s, AK/AR type guns were a niche market. The
>California girls in congress along with the media, started railing
>about a nonexistent "assault rifle" problem and made it a problem.

On 6/10/22 2:34 AM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:

>
> That is certainly true now. I was talking about the 80s when a couple
> of California legislators started making noise about a non-existent
> problem and got the whole thing on the front page. At that time they
> were a niche item with very little visibility to the regular
> sportsman. Once Boxer and Feinstein started talking about bans, people
> did what Americans do when they hear something might not be available,
> they bought them.
> At that time I doubt anyone would have called an AR a sporting rifle
> but once people had them, they adapted.

I'll admit I had a bit of fascination with the "AR" platform for a
couple of years, but I am much more into "traditional" looking rifles
these days, rifles without bunches of pieces and parts and bulky
magazines sticking out of the bottom. Why, I can go days, sometimes
weeks and months without getting into a serious gunfight that requires
hi-cap magazines!

My favorite rifles are an old-style looking .22LR, a bolt-action 7.62 x
39 that shoots really tight groups, and a side-loading Henry lever
action rifle that shoots .38 Special through a suppressor and is pretty
damned quiet. I only have "small" mags for the first two, and the
Henry's tube holds only eight rounds. It also shoots .357 MAG but I've
never bought any for it. The .38 Special rounds are subsonic and less
expensive. I have five-round mags for the 7.62 rifle, but there are
higher cap mags available. I like the "fives" because they don't stick
out of the bottom of the rifle and they don't add excessive weight when
full. The Henry looks a bit tactical, but it is the only model line that
factory offers with a threaded barrel.

I don't hunt and never have, though I do have friends who do and I
sometimes accompany them for the comradery and nature walks. One of my
buddies has property that has a cave on it which bears sometimes occupy.
We check out the outside of the cave from a safe distance from time to
time but in 20 years, we've only seen bears once and he certainly
wouldn't shoot one of them. I saw a coyote last week crossing from one
woods to another and I'm hopeful no one shot it, either.

I don't have issues with "subsistence" hunters who need to put food on
the table for their families.

--
* Lock up Trump and his family of grifters. *

On 6/13/22 7:25 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
> On 6/10/22 2:34 AM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>
>>
>> That is certainly true now. I was talking about the 80s when a couple
>> of California legislators started making noise about a non-existent
>> problem and got the whole thing on the front page. At that time they
>> were a niche item with very little visibility to the regular
>> sportsman. Once Boxer and Feinstein started talking about bans, people
>> did what Americans do when they hear something might not be available,
>> they bought them.
>> At that time I doubt anyone would have called an AR a sporting rifle
>> but once people had them, they adapted.
>
> I'll admit I had a bit of fascination with the "AR" platform for a
> couple of years, but I am much more into "traditional" looking rifles
> these days, rifles without bunches of pieces and parts and bulky
> magazines sticking out of the bottom. Why, I can go days, sometimes
> weeks and months without getting into a serious gunfight that requires
> hi-cap magazines!
>
> My favorite rifles are an old-style looking .22LR, a bolt-action 7.62 x
> 39 that shoots really tight groups, and a side-loading Henry lever
> action rifle that shoots .38 Special through a suppressor and is pretty
> damned quiet. I only have "small" mags for the first two, and the
> Henry's tube holds only eight rounds. It also shoots .357 MAG but I've
> never bought any for it. The .38 Special rounds are subsonic and less
> expensive. I have five-round mags for the 7.62 rifle, but there are
> higher cap mags available. I like the "fives" because they don't stick
> out of the bottom of the rifle and they don't add excessive weight when
> full. The Henry looks a bit tactical, but it is the only model line that
> factory offers with a threaded barrel.
>
> I don't hunt and never have, though I do have friends who do and I
> sometimes accompany them for the comradery and nature walks. One of my
> buddies has property that has a cave on it which bears sometimes occupy.
> We check out the outside of the cave from a safe distance from time to
> time but in 20 years, we've only seen bears once and he certainly
> wouldn't shoot one of them. I saw a coyote last week crossing from one
> woods to another and I'm hopeful no one shot it, either.
>
> I don't have issues with "subsistence" hunters who need to put food on
> the table for their families.
>

Oh, I was going to attach photos of the Henry. These are not my photos.
The first is of the rifle as it came from the factory, with polymer
furniture, and the second is the rifle with a wood furniture kit Henry
sells that I am thinking of getting:

https://ibb.co/SrpvN2F

https://ibb.co/X4pQ0L4

--
* Lock up Trump and his family of grifters. *

On Mon, 13 Jun 2022 06:32:15 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:

>On Sun, 12 Jun 2022 21:06:18 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 12 Jun 2022 16:42:03 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 11 Jun 2022 20:50:48 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sat, 11 Jun 2022 10:30:26 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Sat, 11 Jun 2022 08:05:56 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Fri, 10 Jun 2022 19:23:27 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Fri, 10 Jun 2022 14:40:12 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Fri, 10 Jun 2022 02:34:28 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On Thu, 09 Jun 2022 18:04:40 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 08 Jun 2022 13:52:22 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 08 Jun 2022 06:39:15 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>On Tue, 07 Jun 2022 12:15:48 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Tue, 07 Jun 2022 10:00:32 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Tue, 07 Jun 2022 00:13:07 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Tue, 7 Jun 2022 02:40:47 -0000 (UTC), Bill
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Maybe we should quit blaming guns and ask why so many teen suicides? Seems
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>as if the way now is to do a mass shooting and death by cop or do yourself
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>after posting on social media. Even Apple had a podcast on teen suicide.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Why so many shot in certain cultures in this country every weekend in some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>cities? Blaming guns is doing nothing for the problem. Some guy recently
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>walked in to a hospital and started stabbing doctors and nurses. Blame the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>knife?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>It is probably just a metaphor for how hopeless some teens feel. They
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>think the only way they will ever get any attention is to go out in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>blaze of gunfire.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>We have desensitized them to death and glorified murder with video
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>games and movies. Then you have the Al Gore folks telling them there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>is no future anyway. The earth is doomed, the economy sucks and they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>don't see any job they want to do so what the fuck.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>End it now.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The ironic thing is if it wasn't for those folks in media and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>movies glamorizing "assault weapons" they would still be a '
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>And anyone who'd been associated with the military in the past 50
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>years. That's a hell of a lot of folks.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Most military folks came away with a "Been there done that" approach
>>>>>>>>>>>>>to weapons if they were actually exposed to them at all. I understand
>>>>>>>>>>>>>in the army and marines your weapon is your companion for most MOSs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>but in the air force, navy or coast guard, few people are actually
>>>>>>>>>>>>>handling any small arms. The CG is a bit different these days tho,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>since they became cops and not life savers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Yes, but they're much more than a"niche item
>>>>>>>>>>>>only really known to a few collectors and gun folks." All those folks
>>>>>>>>>>>>who went to Kuwait, Iraq, and Afghanistan have a healthy knowledge of
>>>>>>>>>>>>them. And many of them are buying them.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>I bet, not as many as you think and it is still a very small subset of
>>>>>>>>>>>the American public. What percentage of adults served in any military
>>>>>>>>>>>capacity?
>>>>>>>>>>>Very few of them ever actually served in combat.
>>>>>>>>>>>I know lots of veterans and ex cops who have no interest in "ugly"
>>>>>>>>>>>guns. They may hunt or keep a firearm for home protection but it is
>>>>>>>>>>>usually a handgun or a shotgun. Deer hunters may have a nice rifle or
>>>>>>>>>>>two but they are not scary looking ones.
>>>>>>>>>>>Even my M1A is a traditional walnut stocked rifle. Unfortunately it is
>>>>>>>>>>>usually on ban lists.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Regardless. They are much more than a 'niche item'. With about 20
>>>>>>>>>>million out there,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>That is certainly true now. I was talking about the 80s when a couple
>>>>>>>>>of California legislators started making noise about a non-existent
>>>>>>>>>problem and got the whole thing on the front page. At that time they
>>>>>>>>>were a niche item with very little visibility to the regular
>>>>>>>>>sportsman. Once Boxer and Feinstein started talking about bans, people
>>>>>>>>>did what Americans do when they hear something might not be available,
>>>>>>>>>they bought them.
>>>>>>>>>At that time I doubt anyone would have called an AR a sporting rifle
>>>>>>>>>but once people had them, they adapted.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>The 80's?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Who would have figured?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Anyone who was actually paying attention. I thought it was a stupid
>>>>>>>campaign at the time and it took a decade to actually get the
>>>>>>>legislation they were looking for. By then, the noise around it had
>>>>>>>actually created a market where there had not really been one.
>>>>>>>Even the serious collectors were not really interested in AKs or ARs
>>>>>>>in the early 80s. I did know a guy with an M-60 tho.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Oh. I suppose I wasn't paying enough attention to realize your comment
>>>>>>referred to something 40 years ago.
>>>>>
>>>>>Yup, this assault weapon thing has been 35-40 years in the making and
>>>>>the impetus was the threat of a ban on something most people never
>>>>>knew was a thing. The fastest way to sell something in the US is to
>>>>>say "Hurry, limited time offer", "Close out" or "Get them before they
>>>>>are gone".
>>>>>Remember the toilet paper?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>That reminds me, there is a thread going on a real "boat" group about
>>>>cannons. I bet most people do not understand that they are legal as
>>>>long as they are muzzle loaders. It is the same rule as a black powder
>>>>pistol or rifle. It can be a little thing you can carry under your arm
>>>>or something you would need to tow behind a F-350 truck.
>>>>
>>>>I know Joe thinks they are illegal. I wonder if someone is going to
>>>>tell him?
>>>>https://www.newsweek.com/biden-second-amendment-when-passed-couldnt-buy-cannon-1711480
>>>>
>>>>Again this is a niche market that nobody talks about and most don't
>>>>even know about until some old biddy from California wants to close
>>>>the cannon loophole.
>>>
>>>In this case, I agree it's a 'niche' market. But not in the AR-15
>>>case.
>>
>>How many people did you know with an AR in 1980?
>>The point is, in the 80s, AK/AR type guns were a niche market. The
>>California girls in congress along with the media, started railing
>>about a nonexistent "assault rifle" problem and made it a problem.
>
>Greg, that's fine, but *NOWHERE* in your initial post about these
>being 'niche' guns did you say anything about the 1980's!
>
>Stop making up crap as you go.

On Mon, 13 Jun 2022 07:25:34 -0400, Keyser Söze
<KeyserSöze@whitehouse.com> wrote:

>On 6/10/22 2:34 AM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>
>>
>> That is certainly true now. I was talking about the 80s when a couple
>> of California legislators started making noise about a non-existent
>> problem and got the whole thing on the front page. At that time they
>> were a niche item with very little visibility to the regular
>> sportsman. Once Boxer and Feinstein started talking about bans, people
>> did what Americans do when they hear something might not be available,
>> they bought them.
>> At that time I doubt anyone would have called an AR a sporting rifle
>> but once people had them, they adapted.
>
>I'll admit I had a bit of fascination with the "AR" platform for a
>couple of years, but I am much more into "traditional" looking rifles
>these days, rifles without bunches of pieces and parts and bulky
>magazines sticking out of the bottom. Why, I can go days, sometimes
>weeks and months without getting into a serious gunfight that requires
>hi-cap magazines!
>
>My favorite rifles are an old-style looking .22LR, a bolt-action 7.62 x
>39 that shoots really tight groups, and a side-loading Henry lever
>action rifle that shoots .38 Special through a suppressor and is pretty
>damned quiet. I only have "small" mags for the first two, and the
>Henry's tube holds only eight rounds. It also shoots .357 MAG but I've
>never bought any for it. The .38 Special rounds are subsonic and less
>expensive. I have five-round mags for the 7.62 rifle, but there are
>higher cap mags available. I like the "fives" because they don't stick
>out of the bottom of the rifle and they don't add excessive weight when
>full. The Henry looks a bit tactical, but it is the only model line that
>factory offers with a threaded barrel.
>
>I don't hunt and never have, though I do have friends who do and I
>sometimes accompany them for the comradery and nature walks. One of my
>buddies has property that has a cave on it which bears sometimes occupy.
>We check out the outside of the cave from a safe distance from time to
>time but in 20 years, we've only seen bears once and he certainly
>wouldn't shoot one of them. I saw a coyote last week crossing from one
>woods to another and I'm hopeful no one shot it, either.
>
>I don't have issues with "subsistence" hunters who need to put food on
>the table for their families.

I don't hunt any more either but I would shoot an exotic invasive.
(Monitors, pythons, tegus, iguanas etc) I am mixed on coyotes. If a
pack of them was menacing the neighborhood I might thin them out. I
think my dog would kick one coyote's ass.

<gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Jun 2022 07:25:34 -0400, Keyser Söze
> <KeyserSöze@whitehouse.com> wrote:
>
>> On 6/10/22 2:34 AM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> That is certainly true now. I was talking about the 80s when a couple
>>> of California legislators started making noise about a non-existent
>>> problem and got the whole thing on the front page. At that time they
>>> were a niche item with very little visibility to the regular
>>> sportsman. Once Boxer and Feinstein started talking about bans, people
>>> did what Americans do when they hear something might not be available,
>>> they bought them.
>>> At that time I doubt anyone would have called an AR a sporting rifle
>>> but once people had them, they adapted.
>>
>> I'll admit I had a bit of fascination with the "AR" platform for a
>> couple of years, but I am much more into "traditional" looking rifles
>> these days, rifles without bunches of pieces and parts and bulky
>> magazines sticking out of the bottom. Why, I can go days, sometimes
>> weeks and months without getting into a serious gunfight that requires
>> hi-cap magazines!
>>
>> My favorite rifles are an old-style looking .22LR, a bolt-action 7.62 x
>> 39 that shoots really tight groups, and a side-loading Henry lever
>> action rifle that shoots .38 Special through a suppressor and is pretty
>> damned quiet. I only have "small" mags for the first two, and the
>> Henry's tube holds only eight rounds. It also shoots .357 MAG but I've
>> never bought any for it. The .38 Special rounds are subsonic and less
>> expensive. I have five-round mags for the 7.62 rifle, but there are
>> higher cap mags available. I like the "fives" because they don't stick
>> out of the bottom of the rifle and they don't add excessive weight when
>> full. The Henry looks a bit tactical, but it is the only model line that
>> factory offers with a threaded barrel.
>>
>> I don't hunt and never have, though I do have friends who do and I
>> sometimes accompany them for the comradery and nature walks. One of my
>> buddies has property that has a cave on it which bears sometimes occupy.
>> We check out the outside of the cave from a safe distance from time to
>> time but in 20 years, we've only seen bears once and he certainly
>> wouldn't shoot one of them. I saw a coyote last week crossing from one
>> woods to another and I'm hopeful no one shot it, either.
>>
>> I don't have issues with "subsistence" hunters who need to put food on
>> the table for their families.
>
> I don't hunt any more either but I would shoot an exotic invasive.
> (Monitors, pythons, tegus, iguanas etc) I am mixed on coyotes. If a
> pack of them was menacing the neighborhood I might thin them out. I
> think my dog would kick one coyote's ass.
>

I’ve heard Wile’s cousins were about and Karen saw one in the yard a few
weeks ago, but the one I saw recently was the first I’d seen locally.

--
Lock Trump Up!

On Tue, 14 Jun 2022 11:34:14 -0000 (UTC), Keyser Soze
<KeyserSoze@whitehouse.com> wrote:

><gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 13 Jun 2022 07:25:34 -0400, Keyser Söze
>> <KeyserSöze@whitehouse.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 6/10/22 2:34 AM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> That is certainly true now. I was talking about the 80s when a couple
>>>> of California legislators started making noise about a non-existent
>>>> problem and got the whole thing on the front page. At that time they
>>>> were a niche item with very little visibility to the regular
>>>> sportsman. Once Boxer and Feinstein started talking about bans, people
>>>> did what Americans do when they hear something might not be available,
>>>> they bought them.
>>>> At that time I doubt anyone would have called an AR a sporting rifle
>>>> but once people had them, they adapted.
>>>
>>> I'll admit I had a bit of fascination with the "AR" platform for a
>>> couple of years, but I am much more into "traditional" looking rifles
>>> these days, rifles without bunches of pieces and parts and bulky
>>> magazines sticking out of the bottom. Why, I can go days, sometimes
>>> weeks and months without getting into a serious gunfight that requires
>>> hi-cap magazines!
>>>
>>> My favorite rifles are an old-style looking .22LR, a bolt-action 7.62 x
>>> 39 that shoots really tight groups, and a side-loading Henry lever
>>> action rifle that shoots .38 Special through a suppressor and is pretty
>>> damned quiet. I only have "small" mags for the first two, and the
>>> Henry's tube holds only eight rounds. It also shoots .357 MAG but I've
>>> never bought any for it. The .38 Special rounds are subsonic and less
>>> expensive. I have five-round mags for the 7.62 rifle, but there are
>>> higher cap mags available. I like the "fives" because they don't stick
>>> out of the bottom of the rifle and they don't add excessive weight when
>>> full. The Henry looks a bit tactical, but it is the only model line that
>>> factory offers with a threaded barrel.
>>>
>>> I don't hunt and never have, though I do have friends who do and I
>>> sometimes accompany them for the comradery and nature walks. One of my
>>> buddies has property that has a cave on it which bears sometimes occupy.
>>> We check out the outside of the cave from a safe distance from time to
>>> time but in 20 years, we've only seen bears once and he certainly
>>> wouldn't shoot one of them. I saw a coyote last week crossing from one
>>> woods to another and I'm hopeful no one shot it, either.
>>>
>>> I don't have issues with "subsistence" hunters who need to put food on
>>> the table for their families.
>>
>> I don't hunt any more either but I would shoot an exotic invasive.
>> (Monitors, pythons, tegus, iguanas etc) I am mixed on coyotes. If a
>> pack of them was menacing the neighborhood I might thin them out. I
>> think my dog would kick one coyote's ass.
>>
>
>I’ve heard Wile’s cousins were about and Karen saw one in the yard a few
>weeks ago, but the one I saw recently was the first I’d seen locally.

They are supposed to be around but I haven't seen one here. We do get
wild hogs and an occasional bear tho. I think the coyotes are more
common on Wayne's side of the river.

<gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Jun 2022 11:34:14 -0000 (UTC), Keyser Soze
> <KeyserSoze@whitehouse.com> wrote:
>
>> <gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 13 Jun 2022 07:25:34 -0400, Keyser Söze
>>> <KeyserSöze@whitehouse.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 6/10/22 2:34 AM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That is certainly true now. I was talking about the 80s when a couple
>>>>> of California legislators started making noise about a non-existent
>>>>> problem and got the whole thing on the front page. At that time they
>>>>> were a niche item with very little visibility to the regular
>>>>> sportsman. Once Boxer and Feinstein started talking about bans, people
>>>>> did what Americans do when they hear something might not be available,
>>>>> they bought them.
>>>>> At that time I doubt anyone would have called an AR a sporting rifle
>>>>> but once people had them, they adapted.
>>>>
>>>> I'll admit I had a bit of fascination with the "AR" platform for a
>>>> couple of years, but I am much more into "traditional" looking rifles
>>>> these days, rifles without bunches of pieces and parts and bulky
>>>> magazines sticking out of the bottom. Why, I can go days, sometimes
>>>> weeks and months without getting into a serious gunfight that requires
>>>> hi-cap magazines!
>>>>
>>>> My favorite rifles are an old-style looking .22LR, a bolt-action 7.62 x
>>>> 39 that shoots really tight groups, and a side-loading Henry lever
>>>> action rifle that shoots .38 Special through a suppressor and is pretty
>>>> damned quiet. I only have "small" mags for the first two, and the
>>>> Henry's tube holds only eight rounds. It also shoots .357 MAG but I've
>>>> never bought any for it. The .38 Special rounds are subsonic and less
>>>> expensive. I have five-round mags for the 7.62 rifle, but there are
>>>> higher cap mags available. I like the "fives" because they don't stick
>>>> out of the bottom of the rifle and they don't add excessive weight when
>>>> full. The Henry looks a bit tactical, but it is the only model line that
>>>> factory offers with a threaded barrel.
>>>>
>>>> I don't hunt and never have, though I do have friends who do and I
>>>> sometimes accompany them for the comradery and nature walks. One of my
>>>> buddies has property that has a cave on it which bears sometimes occupy.
>>>> We check out the outside of the cave from a safe distance from time to
>>>> time but in 20 years, we've only seen bears once and he certainly
>>>> wouldn't shoot one of them. I saw a coyote last week crossing from one
>>>> woods to another and I'm hopeful no one shot it, either.
>>>>
>>>> I don't have issues with "subsistence" hunters who need to put food on
>>>> the table for their families.
>>>
>>> I don't hunt any more either but I would shoot an exotic invasive.
>>> (Monitors, pythons, tegus, iguanas etc) I am mixed on coyotes. If a
>>> pack of them was menacing the neighborhood I might thin them out. I
>>> think my dog would kick one coyote's ass.
>>>
>>
>> I’ve heard Wile’s cousins were about and Karen saw one in the yard a few
>> weeks ago, but the one I saw recently was the first I’d seen locally.
>
> They are supposed to be around but I haven't seen one here. We do get
> wild hogs and an occasional bear tho. I think the coyotes are more
> common on Wayne's side of the river.
>

They are out west. Maybe if they would chase the deer off, I could have
some rose blooms. They love the tender new growth on roses. We also have
mountain lions here.

On Mon, 13 Jun 2022 18:20:15 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:

>On Mon, 13 Jun 2022 06:32:15 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 12 Jun 2022 21:06:18 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 12 Jun 2022 16:42:03 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sat, 11 Jun 2022 20:50:48 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Sat, 11 Jun 2022 10:30:26 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Sat, 11 Jun 2022 08:05:56 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Fri, 10 Jun 2022 19:23:27 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Fri, 10 Jun 2022 14:40:12 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On Fri, 10 Jun 2022 02:34:28 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On Thu, 09 Jun 2022 18:04:40 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 08 Jun 2022 13:52:22 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 08 Jun 2022 06:39:15 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Tue, 07 Jun 2022 12:15:48 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Tue, 07 Jun 2022 10:00:32 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Tue, 07 Jun 2022 00:13:07 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Tue, 7 Jun 2022 02:40:47 -0000 (UTC), Bill
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Maybe we should quit blaming guns and ask why so many teen suicides? Seems
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>as if the way now is to do a mass shooting and death by cop or do yourself
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>after posting on social media. Even Apple had a podcast on teen suicide.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Why so many shot in certain cultures in this country every weekend in some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>cities? Blaming guns is doing nothing for the problem. Some guy recently
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>walked in to a hospital and started stabbing doctors and nurses. Blame the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>knife?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>It is probably just a metaphor for how hopeless some teens feel. They
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>think the only way they will ever get any attention is to go out in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>blaze of gunfire.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>We have desensitized them to death and glorified murder with video
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>games and movies. Then you have the Al Gore folks telling them there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>is no future anyway. The earth is doomed, the economy sucks and they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>don't see any job they want to do so what the fuck.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>End it now.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The ironic thing is if it wasn't for those folks in media and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>movies glamorizing "assault weapons" they would still be a '
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>And anyone who'd been associated with the military in the past 50
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>years. That's a hell of a lot of folks.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Most military folks came away with a "Been there done that" approach
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>to weapons if they were actually exposed to them at all. I understand
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>in the army and marines your weapon is your companion for most MOSs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>but in the air force, navy or coast guard, few people are actually
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>handling any small arms. The CG is a bit different these days tho,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>since they became cops and not life savers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Yes, but they're much more than a"niche item
>>>>>>>>>>>>>only really known to a few collectors and gun folks." All those folks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>who went to Kuwait, Iraq, and Afghanistan have a healthy knowledge of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>them. And many of them are buying them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>I bet, not as many as you think and it is still a very small subset of
>>>>>>>>>>>>the American public. What percentage of adults served in any military
>>>>>>>>>>>>capacity?
>>>>>>>>>>>>Very few of them ever actually served in combat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>I know lots of veterans and ex cops who have no interest in "ugly"
>>>>>>>>>>>>guns. They may hunt or keep a firearm for home protection but it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>usually a handgun or a shotgun. Deer hunters may have a nice rifle or
>>>>>>>>>>>>two but they are not scary looking ones.
>>>>>>>>>>>>Even my M1A is a traditional walnut stocked rifle. Unfortunately it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>usually on ban lists.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Regardless. They are much more than a 'niche item'. With about 20
>>>>>>>>>>>million out there,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>That is certainly true now. I was talking about the 80s when a couple
>>>>>>>>>>of California legislators started making noise about a non-existent
>>>>>>>>>>problem and got the whole thing on the front page. At that time they
>>>>>>>>>>were a niche item with very little visibility to the regular
>>>>>>>>>>sportsman. Once Boxer and Feinstein started talking about bans, people
>>>>>>>>>>did what Americans do when they hear something might not be available,
>>>>>>>>>>they bought them.
>>>>>>>>>>At that time I doubt anyone would have called an AR a sporting rifle
>>>>>>>>>>but once people had them, they adapted.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>The 80's?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Who would have figured?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Anyone who was actually paying attention. I thought it was a stupid
>>>>>>>>campaign at the time and it took a decade to actually get the
>>>>>>>>legislation they were looking for. By then, the noise around it had
>>>>>>>>actually created a market where there had not really been one.
>>>>>>>>Even the serious collectors were not really interested in AKs or ARs
>>>>>>>>in the early 80s. I did know a guy with an M-60 tho.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Oh. I suppose I wasn't paying enough attention to realize your comment
>>>>>>>referred to something 40 years ago.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Yup, this assault weapon thing has been 35-40 years in the making and
>>>>>>the impetus was the threat of a ban on something most people never
>>>>>>knew was a thing. The fastest way to sell something in the US is to
>>>>>>say "Hurry, limited time offer", "Close out" or "Get them before they
>>>>>>are gone".
>>>>>>Remember the toilet paper?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>That reminds me, there is a thread going on a real "boat" group about
>>>>>cannons. I bet most people do not understand that they are legal as
>>>>>long as they are muzzle loaders. It is the same rule as a black powder
>>>>>pistol or rifle. It can be a little thing you can carry under your arm
>>>>>or something you would need to tow behind a F-350 truck.
>>>>>
>>>>>I know Joe thinks they are illegal. I wonder if someone is going to
>>>>>tell him?
>>>>>https://www.newsweek.com/biden-second-amendment-when-passed-couldnt-buy-cannon-1711480
>>>>>
>>>>>Again this is a niche market that nobody talks about and most don't
>>>>>even know about until some old biddy from California wants to close
>>>>>the cannon loophole.
>>>>
>>>>In this case, I agree it's a 'niche' market. But not in the AR-15
>>>>case.
>>>
>>>How many people did you know with an AR in 1980?
>>>The point is, in the 80s, AK/AR type guns were a niche market. The
>>>California girls in congress along with the media, started railing
>>>about a nonexistent "assault rifle" problem and made it a problem.
>>
>>Greg, that's fine, but *NOWHERE* in your initial post about these
>>being 'niche' guns did you say anything about the 1980's!
>>
>>Stop making up crap as you go.
>
>OK lets review, just using the quotes above.
>
>I started with this 10 notes ago
>"The ironic thing is if it wasn't for those folks in media and the
>movies glamorizing "assault weapons" they would still be a <where you
>cropped>"
>
>Eights notes ago I said this
>
>"That is certainly true now. I was talking about the 80s when a couple
>of California legislators started making noise about a non-existent
>problem and got the whole thing on the front page. At that time they
>were a niche item with very little visibility to the regular
>sportsman. Once Boxer and Feinstein started talking about bans, people
>did what Americans do when they hear something might not be available,
>they bought them."
>
>That is not exactly changing anything or making anything up.
>
>Maybe you can't think in historic terms and assume things happens in a
>vacuum.

On Mon, 13 Jun 2022 07:25:34 -0400, Keyser Söze
<KeyserSöze@whitehouse.com> wrote:

>On 6/10/22 2:34 AM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>
>>
>> That is certainly true now. I was talking about the 80s when a couple
>> of California legislators started making noise about a non-existent
>> problem and got the whole thing on the front page. At that time they
>> were a niche item with very little visibility to the regular
>> sportsman. Once Boxer and Feinstein started talking about bans, people
>> did what Americans do when they hear something might not be available,
>> they bought them.
>> At that time I doubt anyone would have called an AR a sporting rifle
>> but once people had them, they adapted.
>
>I'll admit I had a bit of fascination with the "AR" platform for a
>couple of years, but I am much more into "traditional" looking rifles
>these days, rifles without bunches of pieces and parts and bulky
>magazines sticking out of the bottom. Why, I can go days, sometimes
>weeks and months without getting into a serious gunfight that requires
>hi-cap magazines!
>
>My favorite rifles are an old-style looking .22LR, a bolt-action 7.62 x
>39 that shoots really tight groups, and a side-loading Henry lever
>action rifle that shoots .38 Special through a suppressor and is pretty
>damned quiet. I only have "small" mags for the first two, and the
>Henry's tube holds only eight rounds. It also shoots .357 MAG but I've
>never bought any for it. The .38 Special rounds are subsonic and less
>expensive. I have five-round mags for the 7.62 rifle, but there are
>higher cap mags available. I like the "fives" because they don't stick
>out of the bottom of the rifle and they don't add excessive weight when
>full. The Henry looks a bit tactical, but it is the only model line that
>factory offers with a threaded barrel.
>
>I don't hunt and never have, though I do have friends who do and I
>sometimes accompany them for the comradery and nature walks. One of my
>buddies has property that has a cave on it which bears sometimes occupy.
>We check out the outside of the cave from a safe distance from time to
>time but in 20 years, we've only seen bears once and he certainly
>wouldn't shoot one of them. I saw a coyote last week crossing from one
>woods to another and I'm hopeful no one shot it, either.
>
>I don't have issues with "subsistence" hunters who need to put food on
>the table for their families.

All coyotes should be shot!

Coyotes and rats share the same 'nuisance' pedigree!

John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Jun 2022 07:25:34 -0400, Keyser Söze
> <KeyserSöze@whitehouse.com> wrote:
>
>> On 6/10/22 2:34 AM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> That is certainly true now. I was talking about the 80s when a couple
>>> of California legislators started making noise about a non-existent
>>> problem and got the whole thing on the front page. At that time they
>>> were a niche item with very little visibility to the regular
>>> sportsman. Once Boxer and Feinstein started talking about bans, people
>>> did what Americans do when they hear something might not be available,
>>> they bought them.
>>> At that time I doubt anyone would have called an AR a sporting rifle
>>> but once people had them, they adapted.
>>
>> I'll admit I had a bit of fascination with the "AR" platform for a
>> couple of years, but I am much more into "traditional" looking rifles
>> these days, rifles without bunches of pieces and parts and bulky
>> magazines sticking out of the bottom. Why, I can go days, sometimes
>> weeks and months without getting into a serious gunfight that requires
>> hi-cap magazines!
>>
>> My favorite rifles are an old-style looking .22LR, a bolt-action 7.62 x
>> 39 that shoots really tight groups, and a side-loading Henry lever
>> action rifle that shoots .38 Special through a suppressor and is pretty
>> damned quiet. I only have "small" mags for the first two, and the
>> Henry's tube holds only eight rounds. It also shoots .357 MAG but I've
>> never bought any for it. The .38 Special rounds are subsonic and less
>> expensive. I have five-round mags for the 7.62 rifle, but there are
>> higher cap mags available. I like the "fives" because they don't stick
>> out of the bottom of the rifle and they don't add excessive weight when
>> full. The Henry looks a bit tactical, but it is the only model line that
>> factory offers with a threaded barrel.
>>
>> I don't hunt and never have, though I do have friends who do and I
>> sometimes accompany them for the comradery and nature walks. One of my
>> buddies has property that has a cave on it which bears sometimes occupy.
>> We check out the outside of the cave from a safe distance from time to
>> time but in 20 years, we've only seen bears once and he certainly
>> wouldn't shoot one of them. I saw a coyote last week crossing from one
>> woods to another and I'm hopeful no one shot it, either.
>>
>> I don't have issues with "subsistence" hunters who need to put food on
>> the table for their families.
>
> All coyotes should be shot!
>
> Coyotes and rats share the same 'nuisance' pedigree!
>

Lots of the western ranchers have changed their opinion on that. They lose
a few lambs and calves, but they seem to keep down the Sage Rat / ground
squirrel population, that eats lots of graze and makes holes that break
livestock legs. Just keep in check. In the otherwise, the Los Angeles
hills are full of them and they keep down the population of cats and dogs.

On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 1:41:53 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Jun 2022 11:34:14 -0000 (UTC), Keyser Soze
> <Keyse...@whitehouse.com> wrote:
>
> ><gfre...@aol.com> wrote:
> >> On Mon, 13 Jun 2022 07:25:34 -0400, Keyser Söze
> >> <KeyserSöz...@whitehouse.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 6/10/22 2:34 AM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> That is certainly true now. I was talking about the 80s when a couple
> >>>> of California legislators started making noise about a non-existent
> >>>> problem and got the whole thing on the front page. At that time they
> >>>> were a niche item with very little visibility to the regular
> >>>> sportsman. Once Boxer and Feinstein started talking about bans, people
> >>>> did what Americans do when they hear something might not be available,
> >>>> they bought them.
> >>>> At that time I doubt anyone would have called an AR a sporting rifle
> >>>> but once people had them, they adapted.
> >>>
> >>> I'll admit I had a bit of fascination with the "AR" platform for a
> >>> couple of years, but I am much more into "traditional" looking rifles
> >>> these days, rifles without bunches of pieces and parts and bulky
> >>> magazines sticking out of the bottom. Why, I can go days, sometimes
> >>> weeks and months without getting into a serious gunfight that requires
> >>> hi-cap magazines!
> >>>
> >>> My favorite rifles are an old-style looking .22LR, a bolt-action 7.62 x
> >>> 39 that shoots really tight groups, and a side-loading Henry lever
> >>> action rifle that shoots .38 Special through a suppressor and is pretty
> >>> damned quiet. I only have "small" mags for the first two, and the
> >>> Henry's tube holds only eight rounds. It also shoots .357 MAG but I've
> >>> never bought any for it. The .38 Special rounds are subsonic and less
> >>> expensive. I have five-round mags for the 7.62 rifle, but there are
> >>> higher cap mags available. I like the "fives" because they don't stick
> >>> out of the bottom of the rifle and they don't add excessive weight when
> >>> full. The Henry looks a bit tactical, but it is the only model line that
> >>> factory offers with a threaded barrel.
> >>>
> >>> I don't hunt and never have, though I do have friends who do and I
> >>> sometimes accompany them for the comradery and nature walks. One of my
> >>> buddies has property that has a cave on it which bears sometimes occupy.
> >>> We check out the outside of the cave from a safe distance from time to
> >>> time but in 20 years, we've only seen bears once and he certainly
> >>> wouldn't shoot one of them. I saw a coyote last week crossing from one
> >>> woods to another and I'm hopeful no one shot it, either.
> >>>
> >>> I don't have issues with "subsistence" hunters who need to put food on
> >>> the table for their families.
> >>
> >> I don't hunt any more either but I would shoot an exotic invasive.
> >> (Monitors, pythons, tegus, iguanas etc) I am mixed on coyotes. If a
> >> pack of them was menacing the neighborhood I might thin them out. I
> >> think my dog would kick one coyote's ass.
> >>
> >
> >I’ve heard Wile’s cousins were about and Karen saw one in the yard a few
> >weeks ago, but the one I saw recently was the first I’d seen locally.
> They are supposed to be around but I haven't seen one here. We do get
> wild hogs and an occasional bear tho. I think the coyotes are more
> common on Wayne's side of the river.

==
There have been reports of coyotes in the north end of town where there are still a lot of wide open spaces. Haven't seen any around here but who knows. We're starting to get iguanas however. Our old house up north was only about 5 miles north of the NYC city limits and we had a few coyotes. I saw one near our house once in broad daylight. Speaking of broad daylight, we saw a full grown panther a few years ago in a populated part of Sanibel Island. It came out of the underbrush on the left side of the road, ambled slowly across in front of us, and then disappeared.

On Tue, 14 Jun 2022 18:26:07 -0000 (UTC), Bill
<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:

><gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 14 Jun 2022 11:34:14 -0000 (UTC), Keyser Soze
>> <KeyserSoze@whitehouse.com> wrote:
>>
>>> <gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 13 Jun 2022 07:25:34 -0400, Keyser Söze
>>>> <KeyserSöze@whitehouse.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 6/10/22 2:34 AM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That is certainly true now. I was talking about the 80s when a couple
>>>>>> of California legislators started making noise about a non-existent
>>>>>> problem and got the whole thing on the front page. At that time they
>>>>>> were a niche item with very little visibility to the regular
>>>>>> sportsman. Once Boxer and Feinstein started talking about bans, people
>>>>>> did what Americans do when they hear something might not be available,
>>>>>> they bought them.
>>>>>> At that time I doubt anyone would have called an AR a sporting rifle
>>>>>> but once people had them, they adapted.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll admit I had a bit of fascination with the "AR" platform for a
>>>>> couple of years, but I am much more into "traditional" looking rifles
>>>>> these days, rifles without bunches of pieces and parts and bulky
>>>>> magazines sticking out of the bottom. Why, I can go days, sometimes
>>>>> weeks and months without getting into a serious gunfight that requires
>>>>> hi-cap magazines!
>>>>>
>>>>> My favorite rifles are an old-style looking .22LR, a bolt-action 7.62 x
>>>>> 39 that shoots really tight groups, and a side-loading Henry lever
>>>>> action rifle that shoots .38 Special through a suppressor and is pretty
>>>>> damned quiet. I only have "small" mags for the first two, and the
>>>>> Henry's tube holds only eight rounds. It also shoots .357 MAG but I've
>>>>> never bought any for it. The .38 Special rounds are subsonic and less
>>>>> expensive. I have five-round mags for the 7.62 rifle, but there are
>>>>> higher cap mags available. I like the "fives" because they don't stick
>>>>> out of the bottom of the rifle and they don't add excessive weight when
>>>>> full. The Henry looks a bit tactical, but it is the only model line that
>>>>> factory offers with a threaded barrel.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't hunt and never have, though I do have friends who do and I
>>>>> sometimes accompany them for the comradery and nature walks. One of my
>>>>> buddies has property that has a cave on it which bears sometimes occupy.
>>>>> We check out the outside of the cave from a safe distance from time to
>>>>> time but in 20 years, we've only seen bears once and he certainly
>>>>> wouldn't shoot one of them. I saw a coyote last week crossing from one
>>>>> woods to another and I'm hopeful no one shot it, either.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't have issues with "subsistence" hunters who need to put food on
>>>>> the table for their families.
>>>>
>>>> I don't hunt any more either but I would shoot an exotic invasive.
>>>> (Monitors, pythons, tegus, iguanas etc) I am mixed on coyotes. If a
>>>> pack of them was menacing the neighborhood I might thin them out. I
>>>> think my dog would kick one coyote's ass.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I’ve heard Wile’s cousins were about and Karen saw one in the yard a few
>>> weeks ago, but the one I saw recently was the first I’d seen locally.
>>
>> They are supposed to be around but I haven't seen one here. We do get
>> wild hogs and an occasional bear tho. I think the coyotes are more
>> common on Wayne's side of the river.
>>
>
>They are out west. Maybe if they would chase the deer off, I could have
>some rose blooms. They love the tender new growth on roses. We also have
>mountain lions here.

We have Panthers, same cat, different zip code. So far they are really
just a problem with wildlife and they stalk kids but I haven't heard
of one being eaten. I suspect some that just drop off the surveillance
radar end up buried somewhere, with their collar.

On Tuesday, 14 June 2022 at 17:07:43 UTC-3, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 1:41:53 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
> > On Tue, 14 Jun 2022 11:34:14 -0000 (UTC), Keyser Soze
> > <Keyse...@whitehouse.com> wrote:
> >
> > ><gfre...@aol.com> wrote:
> > >> On Mon, 13 Jun 2022 07:25:34 -0400, Keyser Söze
> > >> <KeyserSöz...@whitehouse.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> On 6/10/22 2:34 AM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> That is certainly true now. I was talking about the 80s when a couple
> > >>>> of California legislators started making noise about a non-existent
> > >>>> problem and got the whole thing on the front page. At that time they
> > >>>> were a niche item with very little visibility to the regular
> > >>>> sportsman. Once Boxer and Feinstein started talking about bans, people
> > >>>> did what Americans do when they hear something might not be available,
> > >>>> they bought them.
> > >>>> At that time I doubt anyone would have called an AR a sporting rifle
> > >>>> but once people had them, they adapted.
> > >>>
> > >>> I'll admit I had a bit of fascination with the "AR" platform for a
> > >>> couple of years, but I am much more into "traditional" looking rifles
> > >>> these days, rifles without bunches of pieces and parts and bulky
> > >>> magazines sticking out of the bottom. Why, I can go days, sometimes
> > >>> weeks and months without getting into a serious gunfight that requires
> > >>> hi-cap magazines!
> > >>>
> > >>> My favorite rifles are an old-style looking .22LR, a bolt-action 7.62 x
> > >>> 39 that shoots really tight groups, and a side-loading Henry lever
> > >>> action rifle that shoots .38 Special through a suppressor and is pretty
> > >>> damned quiet. I only have "small" mags for the first two, and the
> > >>> Henry's tube holds only eight rounds. It also shoots .357 MAG but I've
> > >>> never bought any for it. The .38 Special rounds are subsonic and less
> > >>> expensive. I have five-round mags for the 7.62 rifle, but there are
> > >>> higher cap mags available. I like the "fives" because they don't stick
> > >>> out of the bottom of the rifle and they don't add excessive weight when
> > >>> full. The Henry looks a bit tactical, but it is the only model line that
> > >>> factory offers with a threaded barrel.
> > >>>
> > >>> I don't hunt and never have, though I do have friends who do and I
> > >>> sometimes accompany them for the comradery and nature walks. One of my
> > >>> buddies has property that has a cave on it which bears sometimes occupy.
> > >>> We check out the outside of the cave from a safe distance from time to
> > >>> time but in 20 years, we've only seen bears once and he certainly
> > >>> wouldn't shoot one of them. I saw a coyote last week crossing from one
> > >>> woods to another and I'm hopeful no one shot it, either.
> > >>>
> > >>> I don't have issues with "subsistence" hunters who need to put food on
> > >>> the table for their families.
> > >>
> > >> I don't hunt any more either but I would shoot an exotic invasive.
> > >> (Monitors, pythons, tegus, iguanas etc) I am mixed on coyotes. If a
> > >> pack of them was menacing the neighborhood I might thin them out. I
> > >> think my dog would kick one coyote's ass.
> > >>
> > >
> > >I’ve heard Wile’s cousins were about and Karen saw one in the yard a few
> > >weeks ago, but the one I saw recently was the first I’d seen locally.
> > They are supposed to be around but I haven't seen one here. We do get
> > wild hogs and an occasional bear tho. I think the coyotes are more
> > common on Wayne's side of the river.
> ===
>
> There have been reports of coyotes in the north end of town where there are still a lot of wide open spaces. Haven't seen any around here but who knows. We're starting to get iguanas however. Our old house up north was only about 5 miles north of the NYC city limits and we had a few coyotes. I saw one near our house once in broad daylight. Speaking of broad daylight, we saw a full grown panther a few years ago in a populated part of Sanibel Island. It came out of the underbrush on the left side of the road, ambled slowly across in front of us, and then disappeared.

Just saw an item n a Texas story. A coyote almost had a cat for its dinner on a house deck. The cat fought a great fight and was able to finally escape by climbing a post.
That coyote was small compared to the hybrid coyote/wolf version we have up here.
Came across a pair on the way back from the Royal NS Yacht Squadron about 20 years ago and the big male was larger than a big German Shepherd.....longer but thinner in the body.

True North <princecraft49@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, 14 June 2022 at 17:07:43 UTC-3, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote:
>> On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 1:41:53 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>> On Tue, 14 Jun 2022 11:34:14 -0000 (UTC), Keyser Soze
>>> <Keyse...@whitehouse.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 13 Jun 2022 07:25:34 -0400, Keyser Söze
>>>>> <KeyserSöz...@whitehouse.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 6/10/22 2:34 AM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That is certainly true now. I was talking about the 80s when a couple
>>>>>>> of California legislators started making noise about a non-existent
>>>>>>> problem and got the whole thing on the front page. At that time they
>>>>>>> were a niche item with very little visibility to the regular
>>>>>>> sportsman. Once Boxer and Feinstein started talking about bans, people
>>>>>>> did what Americans do when they hear something might not be available,
>>>>>>> they bought them.
>>>>>>> At that time I doubt anyone would have called an AR a sporting rifle
>>>>>>> but once people had them, they adapted.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'll admit I had a bit of fascination with the "AR" platform for a
>>>>>> couple of years, but I am much more into "traditional" looking rifles
>>>>>> these days, rifles without bunches of pieces and parts and bulky
>>>>>> magazines sticking out of the bottom. Why, I can go days, sometimes
>>>>>> weeks and months without getting into a serious gunfight that requires
>>>>>> hi-cap magazines!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My favorite rifles are an old-style looking .22LR, a bolt-action 7.62 x
>>>>>> 39 that shoots really tight groups, and a side-loading Henry lever
>>>>>> action rifle that shoots .38 Special through a suppressor and is pretty
>>>>>> damned quiet. I only have "small" mags for the first two, and the
>>>>>> Henry's tube holds only eight rounds. It also shoots .357 MAG but I've
>>>>>> never bought any for it. The .38 Special rounds are subsonic and less
>>>>>> expensive. I have five-round mags for the 7.62 rifle, but there are
>>>>>> higher cap mags available. I like the "fives" because they don't stick
>>>>>> out of the bottom of the rifle and they don't add excessive weight when
>>>>>> full. The Henry looks a bit tactical, but it is the only model line that
>>>>>> factory offers with a threaded barrel.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't hunt and never have, though I do have friends who do and I
>>>>>> sometimes accompany them for the comradery and nature walks. One of my
>>>>>> buddies has property that has a cave on it which bears sometimes occupy.
>>>>>> We check out the outside of the cave from a safe distance from time to
>>>>>> time but in 20 years, we've only seen bears once and he certainly
>>>>>> wouldn't shoot one of them. I saw a coyote last week crossing from one
>>>>>> woods to another and I'm hopeful no one shot it, either.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't have issues with "subsistence" hunters who need to put food on
>>>>>> the table for their families.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't hunt any more either but I would shoot an exotic invasive.
>>>>> (Monitors, pythons, tegus, iguanas etc) I am mixed on coyotes. If a
>>>>> pack of them was menacing the neighborhood I might thin them out. I
>>>>> think my dog would kick one coyote's ass.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I’ve heard Wile’s cousins were about and Karen saw one in the yard a few
>>>> weeks ago, but the one I saw recently was the first I’d seen locally.
>>> They are supposed to be around but I haven't seen one here. We do get
>>> wild hogs and an occasional bear tho. I think the coyotes are more
>>> common on Wayne's side of the river.
>> ===
>>
>> There have been reports of coyotes in the north end of town where there
>> are still a lot of wide open spaces. Haven't seen any around here but
>> who knows. We're starting to get iguanas however. Our old house up north
>> was only about 5 miles north of the NYC city limits and we had a few
>> coyotes. I saw one near our house once in broad daylight. Speaking of
>> broad daylight, we saw a full grown panther a few years ago in a
>> populated part of Sanibel Island. It came out of the underbrush on the
>> left side of the road, ambled slowly across in front of us, and then disappeared.
>
>
> Just saw an item n a Texas story. A coyote almost had a cat for its
> dinner on a house deck. The cat fought a great fight and was able to
> finally escape by climbing a post.
> That coyote was small compared to the hybrid coyote/wolf version we have up here.
> Came across a pair on the way back from the Royal NS Yacht Squadron about
> 20 years ago and the big male was larger than a big German
> Shepherd.....longer but thinner in the body.
>

Lucky cat. Normally the coyote wins.

On Tue, 14 Jun 2022 14:52:54 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:

>On Mon, 13 Jun 2022 18:20:15 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 13 Jun 2022 06:32:15 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 12 Jun 2022 21:06:18 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 12 Jun 2022 16:42:03 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Sat, 11 Jun 2022 20:50:48 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Sat, 11 Jun 2022 10:30:26 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Sat, 11 Jun 2022 08:05:56 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Fri, 10 Jun 2022 19:23:27 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On Fri, 10 Jun 2022 14:40:12 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On Fri, 10 Jun 2022 02:34:28 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>On Thu, 09 Jun 2022 18:04:40 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 08 Jun 2022 13:52:22 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 08 Jun 2022 06:39:15 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Tue, 07 Jun 2022 12:15:48 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Tue, 07 Jun 2022 10:00:32 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Tue, 07 Jun 2022 00:13:07 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Tue, 7 Jun 2022 02:40:47 -0000 (UTC), Bill
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Maybe we should quit blaming guns and ask why so many teen suicides? Seems
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>as if the way now is to do a mass shooting and death by cop or do yourself
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>after posting on social media. Even Apple had a podcast on teen suicide.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Why so many shot in certain cultures in this country every weekend in some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>cities? Blaming guns is doing nothing for the problem. Some guy recently
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>walked in to a hospital and started stabbing doctors and nurses. Blame the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>knife?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>It is probably just a metaphor for how hopeless some teens feel. They
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>think the only way they will ever get any attention is to go out in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>blaze of gunfire.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>We have desensitized them to death and glorified murder with video
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>games and movies. Then you have the Al Gore folks telling them there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>is no future anyway. The earth is doomed, the economy sucks and they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>don't see any job they want to do so what the fuck.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>End it now.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The ironic thing is if it wasn't for those folks in media and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>movies glamorizing "assault weapons" they would still be a '
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>And anyone who'd been associated with the military in the past 50
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>years. That's a hell of a lot of folks.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Most military folks came away with a "Been there done that" approach
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>to weapons if they were actually exposed to them at all. I understand
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>in the army and marines your weapon is your companion for most MOSs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>but in the air force, navy or coast guard, few people are actually
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>handling any small arms. The CG is a bit different these days tho,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>since they became cops and not life savers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Yes, but they're much more than a"niche item
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>only really known to a few collectors and gun folks." All those folks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>who went to Kuwait, Iraq, and Afghanistan have a healthy knowledge of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>them. And many of them are buying them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>I bet, not as many as you think and it is still a very small subset of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>the American public. What percentage of adults served in any military
>>>>>>>>>>>>>capacity?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Very few of them ever actually served in combat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>I know lots of veterans and ex cops who have no interest in "ugly"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>guns. They may hunt or keep a firearm for home protection but it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>usually a handgun or a shotgun. Deer hunters may have a nice rifle or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>two but they are not scary looking ones.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Even my M1A is a traditional walnut stocked rifle. Unfortunately it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>usually on ban lists.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Regardless. They are much more than a 'niche item'. With about 20
>>>>>>>>>>>>million out there,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>That is certainly true now. I was talking about the 80s when a couple
>>>>>>>>>>>of California legislators started making noise about a non-existent
>>>>>>>>>>>problem and got the whole thing on the front page. At that time they
>>>>>>>>>>>were a niche item with very little visibility to the regular
>>>>>>>>>>>sportsman. Once Boxer and Feinstein started talking about bans, people
>>>>>>>>>>>did what Americans do when they hear something might not be available,
>>>>>>>>>>>they bought them.
>>>>>>>>>>>At that time I doubt anyone would have called an AR a sporting rifle
>>>>>>>>>>>but once people had them, they adapted.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>The 80's?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Who would have figured?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Anyone who was actually paying attention. I thought it was a stupid
>>>>>>>>>campaign at the time and it took a decade to actually get the
>>>>>>>>>legislation they were looking for. By then, the noise around it had
>>>>>>>>>actually created a market where there had not really been one.
>>>>>>>>>Even the serious collectors were not really interested in AKs or ARs
>>>>>>>>>in the early 80s. I did know a guy with an M-60 tho.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Oh. I suppose I wasn't paying enough attention to realize your comment
>>>>>>>>referred to something 40 years ago.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Yup, this assault weapon thing has been 35-40 years in the making and
>>>>>>>the impetus was the threat of a ban on something most people never
>>>>>>>knew was a thing. The fastest way to sell something in the US is to
>>>>>>>say "Hurry, limited time offer", "Close out" or "Get them before they
>>>>>>>are gone".
>>>>>>>Remember the toilet paper?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>That reminds me, there is a thread going on a real "boat" group about
>>>>>>cannons. I bet most people do not understand that they are legal as
>>>>>>long as they are muzzle loaders. It is the same rule as a black powder
>>>>>>pistol or rifle. It can be a little thing you can carry under your arm
>>>>>>or something you would need to tow behind a F-350 truck.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I know Joe thinks they are illegal. I wonder if someone is going to
>>>>>>tell him?
>>>>>>https://www.newsweek.com/biden-second-amendment-when-passed-couldnt-buy-cannon-1711480
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Again this is a niche market that nobody talks about and most don't
>>>>>>even know about until some old biddy from California wants to close
>>>>>>the cannon loophole.
>>>>>
>>>>>In this case, I agree it's a 'niche' market. But not in the AR-15
>>>>>case.
>>>>
>>>>How many people did you know with an AR in 1980?
>>>>The point is, in the 80s, AK/AR type guns were a niche market. The
>>>>California girls in congress along with the media, started railing
>>>>about a nonexistent "assault rifle" problem and made it a problem.
>>>
>>>Greg, that's fine, but *NOWHERE* in your initial post about these
>>>being 'niche' guns did you say anything about the 1980's!
>>>
>>>Stop making up crap as you go.
>>
>>OK lets review, just using the quotes above.
>>
>>I started with this 10 notes ago
>>"The ironic thing is if it wasn't for those folks in media and the
>>movies glamorizing "assault weapons" they would still be a <where you
>>cropped>"
>>
>>Eights notes ago I said this
>>
>>"That is certainly true now. I was talking about the 80s when a couple
>>of California legislators started making noise about a non-existent
>>problem and got the whole thing on the front page. At that time they
>>were a niche item with very little visibility to the regular
>>sportsman. Once Boxer and Feinstein started talking about bans, people
>>did what Americans do when they hear something might not be available,
>>they bought them."
>>
>>That is not exactly changing anything or making anything up.
>>
>>Maybe you can't think in historic terms and assume things happens in a
>>vacuum.
>
>Nope. Go back to your original post:
>
>"The ironic thing is if it wasn't for those folks in media and the
>movies glamorizing "assault weapons" they would still be a niche item
>only really known to a few collectors and gun folks. "
>
>Again, no mention of the 80's.

On Tue, 14 Jun 2022 14:56:39 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:

>On Mon, 13 Jun 2022 07:25:34 -0400, Keyser Söze
><KeyserSöze@whitehouse.com> wrote:
>
>>On 6/10/22 2:34 AM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> That is certainly true now. I was talking about the 80s when a couple
>>> of California legislators started making noise about a non-existent
>>> problem and got the whole thing on the front page. At that time they
>>> were a niche item with very little visibility to the regular
>>> sportsman. Once Boxer and Feinstein started talking about bans, people
>>> did what Americans do when they hear something might not be available,
>>> they bought them.
>>> At that time I doubt anyone would have called an AR a sporting rifle
>>> but once people had them, they adapted.
>>
>>I'll admit I had a bit of fascination with the "AR" platform for a
>>couple of years, but I am much more into "traditional" looking rifles
>>these days, rifles without bunches of pieces and parts and bulky
>>magazines sticking out of the bottom. Why, I can go days, sometimes
>>weeks and months without getting into a serious gunfight that requires
>>hi-cap magazines!
>>
>>My favorite rifles are an old-style looking .22LR, a bolt-action 7.62 x
>>39 that shoots really tight groups, and a side-loading Henry lever
>>action rifle that shoots .38 Special through a suppressor and is pretty
>>damned quiet. I only have "small" mags for the first two, and the
>>Henry's tube holds only eight rounds. It also shoots .357 MAG but I've
>>never bought any for it. The .38 Special rounds are subsonic and less
>>expensive. I have five-round mags for the 7.62 rifle, but there are
>>higher cap mags available. I like the "fives" because they don't stick
>>out of the bottom of the rifle and they don't add excessive weight when
>>full. The Henry looks a bit tactical, but it is the only model line that
>>factory offers with a threaded barrel.
>>
>>I don't hunt and never have, though I do have friends who do and I
>>sometimes accompany them for the comradery and nature walks. One of my
>>buddies has property that has a cave on it which bears sometimes occupy.
>>We check out the outside of the cave from a safe distance from time to
>>time but in 20 years, we've only seen bears once and he certainly
>>wouldn't shoot one of them. I saw a coyote last week crossing from one
>>woods to another and I'm hopeful no one shot it, either.
>>
>>I don't have issues with "subsistence" hunters who need to put food on
>>the table for their families.
>
>All coyotes should be shot!
>
>Coyotes and rats share the same 'nuisance' pedigree!

There is nothing bad about either of those species in their own
environment. It is when they start encroaching on ours that they need
to be controlled.

On Tue, 14 Jun 2022 13:07:41 -0700 (PDT),
"waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com" <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 1:41:53 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>> On Tue, 14 Jun 2022 11:34:14 -0000 (UTC), Keyser Soze
>> <Keyse...@whitehouse.com> wrote:
>>
>> ><gfre...@aol.com> wrote:
>> >> On Mon, 13 Jun 2022 07:25:34 -0400, Keyser Söze
>> >> <KeyserSöz...@whitehouse.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> On 6/10/22 2:34 AM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> That is certainly true now. I was talking about the 80s when a couple
>> >>>> of California legislators started making noise about a non-existent
>> >>>> problem and got the whole thing on the front page. At that time they
>> >>>> were a niche item with very little visibility to the regular
>> >>>> sportsman. Once Boxer and Feinstein started talking about bans, people
>> >>>> did what Americans do when they hear something might not be available,
>> >>>> they bought them.
>> >>>> At that time I doubt anyone would have called an AR a sporting rifle
>> >>>> but once people had them, they adapted.
>> >>>
>> >>> I'll admit I had a bit of fascination with the "AR" platform for a
>> >>> couple of years, but I am much more into "traditional" looking rifles
>> >>> these days, rifles without bunches of pieces and parts and bulky
>> >>> magazines sticking out of the bottom. Why, I can go days, sometimes
>> >>> weeks and months without getting into a serious gunfight that requires
>> >>> hi-cap magazines!
>> >>>
>> >>> My favorite rifles are an old-style looking .22LR, a bolt-action 7.62 x
>> >>> 39 that shoots really tight groups, and a side-loading Henry lever
>> >>> action rifle that shoots .38 Special through a suppressor and is pretty
>> >>> damned quiet. I only have "small" mags for the first two, and the
>> >>> Henry's tube holds only eight rounds. It also shoots .357 MAG but I've
>> >>> never bought any for it. The .38 Special rounds are subsonic and less
>> >>> expensive. I have five-round mags for the 7.62 rifle, but there are
>> >>> higher cap mags available. I like the "fives" because they don't stick
>> >>> out of the bottom of the rifle and they don't add excessive weight when
>> >>> full. The Henry looks a bit tactical, but it is the only model line that
>> >>> factory offers with a threaded barrel.
>> >>>
>> >>> I don't hunt and never have, though I do have friends who do and I
>> >>> sometimes accompany them for the comradery and nature walks. One of my
>> >>> buddies has property that has a cave on it which bears sometimes occupy.
>> >>> We check out the outside of the cave from a safe distance from time to
>> >>> time but in 20 years, we've only seen bears once and he certainly
>> >>> wouldn't shoot one of them. I saw a coyote last week crossing from one
>> >>> woods to another and I'm hopeful no one shot it, either.
>> >>>
>> >>> I don't have issues with "subsistence" hunters who need to put food on
>> >>> the table for their families.
>> >>
>> >> I don't hunt any more either but I would shoot an exotic invasive.
>> >> (Monitors, pythons, tegus, iguanas etc) I am mixed on coyotes. If a
>> >> pack of them was menacing the neighborhood I might thin them out. I
>> >> think my dog would kick one coyote's ass.
>> >>
>> >
>> >I’ve heard Wile’s cousins were about and Karen saw one in the yard a few
>> >weeks ago, but the one I saw recently was the first I’d seen locally.
>> They are supposed to be around but I haven't seen one here. We do get
>> wild hogs and an occasional bear tho. I think the coyotes are more
>> common on Wayne's side of the river.
>
>===
>
>There have been reports of coyotes in the north end of town where there are still a lot of wide open spaces. Haven't seen any around here but who knows. We're starting to get iguanas however. Our old house up north was only about 5 miles north of the NYC city limits and we had a few coyotes. I saw one near our house once in
broad daylight. Speaking of broad daylight, we saw a full grown panther a few years ago in a populated part of Sanibel Island. It came out of the underbrush on the left side of the road, ambled slowly across in front of us, and then disappeared.

We had a panther in the scrub at the end of my street. People kept
seeing it. Then it got hit by a cop car at RSW and I haven't heard of
another one filling that gap. The natural paths are gone now so we
might not see any. They still have bears in the scrub now and then.

John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Jun 2022 18:20:15 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 13 Jun 2022 06:32:15 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 12 Jun 2022 21:06:18 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 12 Jun 2022 16:42:03 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 11 Jun 2022 20:50:48 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, 11 Jun 2022 10:30:26 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, 11 Jun 2022 08:05:56 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 10 Jun 2022 19:23:27 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 10 Jun 2022 14:40:12 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 10 Jun 2022 02:34:28 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 09 Jun 2022 18:04:40 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 08 Jun 2022 13:52:22 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 08 Jun 2022 06:39:15 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 07 Jun 2022 12:15:48 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 07 Jun 2022 10:00:32 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 07 Jun 2022 00:13:07 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 7 Jun 2022 02:40:47 -0000 (UTC), Bill
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe we should quit blaming guns and ask why so many teen suicides?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Seems
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as if the way now is to do a mass shooting and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> death by cop or do yourself
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after posting on social media. Even Apple had a podcast on teen suicide.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why so many shot in certain cultures in this country every weekend in some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cities? Blaming guns is doing nothing for the problem. Some guy recently
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> walked in to a hospital and started stabbing doctors and nurses. Blame
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knife?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is probably just a metaphor for how hopeless some teens feel. They
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think the only way they will ever get any attention is to go out in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blaze of gunfire.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We have desensitized them to death and glorified murder with video
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> games and movies. Then you have the Al Gore folks telling them there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is no future anyway. The earth is doomed, the economy sucks and they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't see any job they want to do so what the fuck.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> End it now.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The ironic thing is if it wasn't for those folks in media and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> movies glamorizing "assault weapons" they would still be a '
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And anyone who'd been associated with the military in the past 50
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years. That's a hell of a lot of folks.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Most military folks came away with a "Been there done that" approach
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to weapons if they were actually exposed to them at all. I understand
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the army and marines your weapon is your companion for most MOSs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but in the air force, navy or coast guard, few people are actually
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> handling any small arms. The CG is a bit different these days tho,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since they became cops and not life savers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, but they're much more than a"niche item
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> only really known to a few collectors and gun folks." All those folks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who went to Kuwait, Iraq, and Afghanistan have a healthy knowledge of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them. And many of them are buying them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I bet, not as many as you think and it is still a very small subset of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the American public. What percentage of adults served in any military
>>>>>>>>>>>>> capacity?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Very few of them ever actually served in combat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I know lots of veterans and ex cops who have no interest in "ugly"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> guns. They may hunt or keep a firearm for home protection but it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> usually a handgun or a shotgun. Deer hunters may have a nice rifle or
>>>>>>>>>>>>> two but they are not scary looking ones.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Even my M1A is a traditional walnut stocked rifle. Unfortunately it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> usually on ban lists.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Regardless. They are much more than a 'niche item'. With about 20
>>>>>>>>>>>> million out there,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That is certainly true now. I was talking about the 80s when a couple
>>>>>>>>>>> of California legislators started making noise about a non-existent
>>>>>>>>>>> problem and got the whole thing on the front page. At that time they
>>>>>>>>>>> were a niche item with very little visibility to the regular
>>>>>>>>>>> sportsman. Once Boxer and Feinstein started talking about bans, people
>>>>>>>>>>> did what Americans do when they hear something might not be available,
>>>>>>>>>>> they bought them.
>>>>>>>>>>> At that time I doubt anyone would have called an AR a sporting rifle
>>>>>>>>>>> but once people had them, they adapted.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The 80's?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Who would have figured?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Anyone who was actually paying attention. I thought it was a stupid
>>>>>>>>> campaign at the time and it took a decade to actually get the
>>>>>>>>> legislation they were looking for. By then, the noise around it had
>>>>>>>>> actually created a market where there had not really been one.
>>>>>>>>> Even the serious collectors were not really interested in AKs or ARs
>>>>>>>>> in the early 80s. I did know a guy with an M-60 tho.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Oh. I suppose I wasn't paying enough attention to realize your comment
>>>>>>>> referred to something 40 years ago.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yup, this assault weapon thing has been 35-40 years in the making and
>>>>>>> the impetus was the threat of a ban on something most people never
>>>>>>> knew was a thing. The fastest way to sell something in the US is to
>>>>>>> say "Hurry, limited time offer", "Close out" or "Get them before they
>>>>>>> are gone".
>>>>>>> Remember the toilet paper?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That reminds me, there is a thread going on a real "boat" group about
>>>>>> cannons. I bet most people do not understand that they are legal as
>>>>>> long as they are muzzle loaders. It is the same rule as a black powder
>>>>>> pistol or rifle. It can be a little thing you can carry under your arm
>>>>>> or something you would need to tow behind a F-350 truck.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know Joe thinks they are illegal. I wonder if someone is going to
>>>>>> tell him?
>>>>>> https://www.newsweek.com/biden-second-amendment-when-passed-couldnt-buy-cannon-1711480
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Again this is a niche market that nobody talks about and most don't
>>>>>> even know about until some old biddy from California wants to close
>>>>>> the cannon loophole.
>>>>>
>>>>> In this case, I agree it's a 'niche' market. But not in the AR-15
>>>>> case.
>>>>
>>>> How many people did you know with an AR in 1980?
>>>> The point is, in the 80s, AK/AR type guns were a niche market. The
>>>> California girls in congress along with the media, started railing
>>>> about a nonexistent "assault rifle" problem and made it a problem.
>>>
>>> Greg, that's fine, but *NOWHERE* in your initial post about these
>>> being 'niche' guns did you say anything about the 1980's!
>>>
>>> Stop making up crap as you go.
>>
>> OK lets review, just using the quotes above.
>>
>> I started with this 10 notes ago
>> "The ironic thing is if it wasn't for those folks in media and the
>> movies glamorizing "assault weapons" they would still be a <where you
>> cropped>"
>>
>> Eights notes ago I said this
>>
>> "That is certainly true now. I was talking about the 80s when a couple
>> of California legislators started making noise about a non-existent
>> problem and got the whole thing on the front page. At that time they
>> were a niche item with very little visibility to the regular
>> sportsman. Once Boxer and Feinstein started talking about bans, people
>> did what Americans do when they hear something might not be available,
>> they bought them."
>>
>> That is not exactly changing anything or making anything up.
>>
>> Maybe you can't think in historic terms and assume things happens in a
>> vacuum.
>
> Nope. Go back to your original post:
>
> "The ironic thing is if it wasn't for those folks in media and the
> movies glamorizing "assault weapons" they would still be a niche item
> only really known to a few collectors and gun folks. "
>
> Again, no mention of the 80's.
>

On 6/14/2022 6:45 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Jun 2022 14:56:39 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 13 Jun 2022 07:25:34 -0400, Keyser Söze
>> <KeyserSöze@whitehouse.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 6/10/22 2:34 AM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> That is certainly true now. I was talking about the 80s when a couple
>>>> of California legislators started making noise about a non-existent
>>>> problem and got the whole thing on the front page. At that time they
>>>> were a niche item with very little visibility to the regular
>>>> sportsman. Once Boxer and Feinstein started talking about bans, people
>>>> did what Americans do when they hear something might not be available,
>>>> they bought them.
>>>> At that time I doubt anyone would have called an AR a sporting rifle
>>>> but once people had them, they adapted.
>>>
>>> I'll admit I had a bit of fascination with the "AR" platform for a
>>> couple of years, but I am much more into "traditional" looking rifles
>>> these days, rifles without bunches of pieces and parts and bulky
>>> magazines sticking out of the bottom. Why, I can go days, sometimes
>>> weeks and months without getting into a serious gunfight that requires
>>> hi-cap magazines!
>>>
>>> My favorite rifles are an old-style looking .22LR, a bolt-action 7.62 x
>>> 39 that shoots really tight groups, and a side-loading Henry lever
>>> action rifle that shoots .38 Special through a suppressor and is pretty
>>> damned quiet. I only have "small" mags for the first two, and the
>>> Henry's tube holds only eight rounds. It also shoots .357 MAG but I've
>>> never bought any for it. The .38 Special rounds are subsonic and less
>>> expensive. I have five-round mags for the 7.62 rifle, but there are
>>> higher cap mags available. I like the "fives" because they don't stick
>>> out of the bottom of the rifle and they don't add excessive weight when
>>> full. The Henry looks a bit tactical, but it is the only model line that
>>> factory offers with a threaded barrel.
>>>
>>> I don't hunt and never have, though I do have friends who do and I
>>> sometimes accompany them for the comradery and nature walks. One of my
>>> buddies has property that has a cave on it which bears sometimes occupy.
>>> We check out the outside of the cave from a safe distance from time to
>>> time but in 20 years, we've only seen bears once and he certainly
>>> wouldn't shoot one of them. I saw a coyote last week crossing from one
>>> woods to another and I'm hopeful no one shot it, either.
>>>
>>> I don't have issues with "subsistence" hunters who need to put food on
>>> the table for their families.
>>
>> All coyotes should be shot!
>>
>> Coyotes and rats share the same 'nuisance' pedigree!
>
> There is nothing bad about either of those species in their own
> environment. It is when they start encroaching on ours that they need
> to be controlled.

In our neighborhood we have coyotes, fox, wild turkeys, rabbits, a
gazillion squirrels, both grey and red, and, at night, you can hear
the cry of an occasional Fisher Cat.

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