<gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 5 Jul 2022 11:19:00 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 7/5/2022 11:02 AM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>> On Tue, 5 Jul 2022 07:13:31 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 7/4/2022 4:02 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 06:55:57 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 7/3/2022 8:01 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 12:19:49 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>> "waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com" <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 7:00:11 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 7/2/2022 4:53 PM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 4:16:22 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 07:39:53 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/1/2022 4:58 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 11:56:20 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 2:27:15 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 09:33:30 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From an op-ed article by Mick Mulvaney in USA Today:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's quite likely that Trump attempted to obstruct justice, which may turn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out to be the most serious, and most provable crime he committed according
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to Mick Mulvaney, Director of the Office of Management and Budget; White
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> House Chief of Staff.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Per Mulvaney, such claims are the threat Trump should be most worried about.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He also described a former White House aide's Tuesday testimony as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "eminently credible."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The former acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney wrote on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wednesday that in his view the real threat to former President Donald Trump
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was evidence that might lead to accusations of obstruction of justice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote that he had previously defended the former president against
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> claims that he did "anything illegal or criminal" in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> relation to the Capitol riot. He said he was having difficulty maintaining
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that position, however, particularly after Hutchinson's testimony, which he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said he found "eminently credible."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Because after some of the bombshells that got dropped in that hearing, my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guess is that things could get very dark for the former
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> president," Mulvaney wrote.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney also said, though, that Tuesday's hearing revealed one real threat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to Trump that didn't hinge on Hutchinson's words or credibility. "It is the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one that jumped out at me," he wrote. "And it is the one that should most
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worry the former president."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He referred to the evidence presented by Rep. Liz Cheney of Wyoming toward
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the end of the hearing consisting of two messages that January 6 panel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witnesses said they received before giving their depositions. The messages
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> included allusions to being a "team player" to "stay in the good graces in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trump world" as well as a reminder that Trump read transcripts of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interviews.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney said that the implication behind displaying the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> messages during the hearing was "crystal clear."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "The Jan. 6 committee members believe they have evidence that people within
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Trump operation attempted to intimidate witnesses,"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote. "And that, any way you slice it, is obstruction of justice."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you want to bet, if Trump said he wasn't running in 2024, this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whole witch hunt evaporates. De Santis may be taking that option away
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from him anyway.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witch-hunt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /?wiCH ?h?nt/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nounhistorical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noun: witch-hunt; plural noun: witch-hunts; noun: witchhunt; plural noun:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witchhunts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a) search for and subsequent persecution of a supposed witch.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> b) informal: a campaign directed against a person or group
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> holding unorthodox or unpopular views.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I take some exception to your use of "witch-hunt" because of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its implication of a search for something that isn't real.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In my mind, and the mind of many others, Trump's criminality
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is very real. The question is how best to prove it, and how
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> best to punish it. I'm not sure it's enough to just keep him
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from running in 2024 but that's a good start. I'd like to see his cult
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mystique with the right win sector of the Republican party
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> totally annihilated so that we never have to deal with his toxic influence
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> again.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The whole process bothers me. Even you admit, the whole exercise is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> designed to prevent him from running again (two impeachments, one
>>>>>>>>>>>>> after he left office and now you are hanging your hat on the 14th
>>>>>>>>>>>>> amendment)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Isn't this supposed to be up to the voters?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why are you folks so afraid of open and free elections?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would much prefer that he simply gets clobbered in the primaries by
>>>>>>>>>>>>> margins too great to protest. De Santis is already chipping away at
>>>>>>>>>>>>> his base.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I still believe the risks of trying to charge this guy over bullshit
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the social upheaval it might cause is not worth the risk for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> slim chance you can get any kind of conviction by 2024.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The court would still be hearing motions by then.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I mentioned before, Cruz is still in court for a school shooting in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2018 and it was a slam dunk against a kid with few resources to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> present a defense.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trump may be a piece of shit but he is a rich piece of shit who has
>>>>>>>>>>>>> always been surrounded by lawyers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Even Biden the Bozo isn't blaming Trump for much anymore.
>>>>>>>>>>>> It's all "Russia, Russia, Russia".
>>>>>>>>>>> Biden has to be a little careful or someone will point out Russia was
>>>>>>>>>>> pretty quiet on Trump's watch. They got frisky during Obama's watch
>>>>>>>>>>> and started a war on Biden's watch.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Putin had Trump right where he wanted him and didn't want to upset the balance.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://cdn.forumcomm.com/dims4/default/cc2560c/2147483647/strip/false/crop/3259x2423+0+0/resize/1486x1105!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum-communications-production-web.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fbrightspot%2F5d%2F6e%2F99f75ab4481499aab953bee3ff59%2Fcolor-edit-toon-trump-on-nato-and-russia.jpg
>>>>>>>>> Cute.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It's obvious you have an intense dislike for Trump which is
>>>>>>>>> understandable. Based on your many posts about him, your
>>>>>>>>> dislike goes back a long ways ... back when he was in
>>>>>>>>> private business and well before he ran for and won the
>>>>>>>>> Presidency.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But, if you can put that intense dislike and bias aside for
>>>>>>>>> a moment, do you really feel the USA is in better positions
>>>>>>>>> and conditions, economically, domestically and globally
>>>>>>>>> today compared to four years ago?.
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The seeds of inflation were planted on Trump's watch with the
>>>>>>>> Quantitative Easing program. It helped to keep the economy afloat
>>>>>>>> during the Covid crisis but now were paying the price. The same
>>>>>>>> can be said for the global supply chain crisis. Could Trump have
>>>>>>>> done anything about it if still in office? Frankly I doubt it.
>>>>>>>> He would have done a good job of blaming it on someone else
>>>>>>>> however. That's his special talent. Does it not matter to you
>>>>>>>> that he tried to overthrow an election and obstruct the peaceful
>>>>>>>> transfer of power? That is the bedrock of our democracy, and
>>>>>>>> Trump reminds us of how fragile it can be. The vast majority of
>>>>>>>> the electorate saw through his bluff, bluster and bullshit in the
>>>>>>>> 2020 election and rightfully voted him out of office. For better
>>>>>>>> or worse Biden was the only choice. For that we can thank the
>>>>>>>> feckless Republican party who stood by their flawed candidate
>>>>>>>> while the ship was burning.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Obama fiscal policy rewarded his rich contributors, bankers and
>>>>>>> Wall Street but it left the middle class suffering. The more we hear
>>>>>>> about who actually got the money the more pissed people are. They are
>>>>>>> really just scratching the surface of the massive fraud with a few
>>>>>>> small timers who got charged. The big players who raked in millions
>>>>>>> and padded their bottom line with it, like airlines are still free to
>>>>>>> do it again.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have a hunch that history will record the Obama/Biden years as being
>>>>>> the most corrupt in modern times.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would put the stick in the dirt when GHWB took office and we have
>>>>> suffered from bad leadership since. That is both on the corporate and
>>>>> government side. The corporations adopted a 90 day window for their
>>>>> decision making, just trying to make good quarterly numbers, not
>>>>> really building anything and they were supported by the same mentality
>>>>> in Washington. It was all about how Wall Street is doing with no real
>>>>> concern with how things are going on Main Street, what we do next year
>>>>> or how we will ever service the debt they incurred. The Democrats
>>>>> embraced Rubin, Summers, Geithner and Greenspan more than the
>>>>> Republicans.
>>>>> We can complain about the American oligarchs like Jobs, Bezos and Musk
>>>>> but at least they were building things.
>>>>> Musk and Bezos are pretty frustrated with the government too.
>>>>
>>>> When I think of corruption I am not thinking bad policies, etc.
>>>>
>>>> I am thinking corruption in the sense of using the power and
>>>> influence of an elected office for personal financial gains.
>>>> Biden is a perfect example of a smiling, career politician who has his
>>>> hand out everywhere. Hunter's laptop will eventually do him in.
>>>>
>>>> I don't think GWB was corrupt in this sense. You can argue his
>>>> policies but there's no evidence anywhere of him personally
>>>> gaining by them financially, at least not by plan.
>>>>
>>>> This will irk Wayne and Harry but neither did Trump.
>>>
>>
>>> If that is your standard, Nixon was one of the most honest politicians
>>> ever. ;-)
>>>
>>
>> Well, he *was* honest about Checkers. :-)
>
> That was really the last time Nixon was accused of "personally gaining
> ... financially".
> He may have been corrupt in gaining more power but it wasn't financial
> corruption benefitting his bottom line.
> My problem with Nixon was how he expanded federal power, largely in an
> unconstitutional way.
> I felt the same way about Reagan to some extent.
> Carter promised to "streamline" government and all he did was add
> additional bloat to existing agencies making them get bigger.
> I really have a hard time liking any of them in my lifetime.
> Eisenhower was the only one who actually reduced the size of
> government but he set the stage for Vietnam and our flawed middle east
> policy.
> Truman was the architect of the cold war and the condition in Korea we
> are still suffering from.
> JFK let his dick almost end life as we know it in Cuba by refusing the
> deal we finally took but not before being one button press away from
> nuclear war with Russia. We were only saved because Vasily Arkhipov, a
> Soviet political officer on the Foxtrot (sub) B-59 would not let the
> captain fire his nuke torpedo after they were depth charged.
> Johnson lied us into Vietnam. The Bushes (and Clinton) lied us into
> Iraq. Obama doubled down in Afghanistan and continued the Iraq war
> after promising he would end both.
>
> Trump's only redeeming quality was that he did not embrace either of
> those stupid wars and chilled the Russians for 4 years. He still
> ballooned the debt as much as Obama with printed money.
>

On Tuesday, 5 July 2022 at 15:55:40 UTC-3, Keyser Söze wrote:
> On 7/4/22 6:44 PM, Bill wrote:
> > John H <jher...@cox.net> wrote:
> >> On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 14:58:04 -0000 (UTC), Keyser Soze
> >> <keyse...@whitehouse.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>> To WayneTrump is the root of all evil. He seems obliviius to the
> >>>> civil unrest, crime, graft, corruption, and the ship of state is
> >>>> rudderless. All the can say is we're watching and we're doing all
> >>>> we can. My question is what are they trying to do to our country,
> >>>> and why? Constitution no good.Lets rewrite it. Supreme court no
> >>>> good. Lets pack it or get rid of it. Nobody should suffer jail
> >>>> time. Go out and buy an electric car NOW. It doesn't matter that
> >>>> we dont have infrostructure to support it. Borders dont matter.
> >>>> Hunter Biden is the smartest person Sleepy Joe knows.
> >>>>
> >>>> Im going to celebrate independence day anyway. My flags are coming
> >>>> down tomorrow until the next event worth celebrating.
> >>>
> >>> If you, herring, and bilious bill had any talent, you could revive the
> >>> Nairobi Trio and appear to be more clever than any of you are.
> >>> https://youtu.be/5-tFyBLo71U
> >>
> >>
> >> "That's not a baby kicking, Karen dear, it's just a fetus!"
> >>
> >
> > I guess a lack of talent allows us to be still be married to our first
> > wife, not ever declaring bankruptcy, let alone twice. Talk about talent,
> > Harry. Yours seems to be to live of others work.
> >
> You, Herring, and Justin couldn't win, place, or show in a race in which
> there were no other horses. And wasn't Herring previously married?
> Justin carefully keeps all the details of his life a big secret, and for
> good reason. How far can he travel wearing that ankle bracelet? And all
> three of you are boringly repetitive. Yawn.
> +
> --
> * I just want to find 11,780 votes... *

I agree wholeheartedly and unequivocally with this post .

Keyser Söze <KeyserSöze@whitehouse.com> Wrote in message:r
> On 7/4/22 6:44 PM, Bill wrote:> John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:>> On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 14:58:04 -0000 (UTC), Keyser Soze>> <keysersoze@whitehouse.com> wrote:>>>>>>>> To WayneTrump is the root of all evil. He seems obliviius to the>>>> civil unrest, crime, graft, corruption, and the ship of state is>>>> rudderless. All the can say is we're watching and we're doing all>>>> we can. My question is what are they trying to do to our country,>>>> and why? Constitution no good.Lets rewrite it. Supreme court no>>>> good. Lets pack it or get rid of it. Nobody should suffer jail>>>> time. Go out and buy an electric car NOW. It doesn't matter that>>>> we dont have infrostructure to support it. Borders dont matter.>>>> Hunter Biden is the smartest person Sleepy Joe knows.>>>>>>>> Im going to celebrate independence day anyway. My flags are coming>>>> down tomorrow until the next event worth celebrating.>>>>>> If you, herring, and bilious bill had any talent, you could revive the>>> Nairobi Trio and appear to be more clever than any of you are.>>> https://youtu.be/5-tFyBLo71U>>>>>> "That's not a baby kicking, Karen dear, it's just a fetus!">>> > I guess a lack of talent allows us to be still b
e married to our first> wife, not ever declaring bankruptcy, let alone twice. Talk about talent,> Harry. Yours seems to be to live of others work.> You, Herring, and Justin couldn't win, place, or show in a race in which there were no other horses. And wasn't Herring previously married? Justin carefully keeps all the details of his life a big secret, and for good reason. How far can he travel wearing that ankle bracelet? And all three of you are boringly repetitive. Yawn.+-- * I just want to find 11,780 votes... *

No ankle bracelet for me bub. I pay my taxes. Just in the past 5
years I've traveled in, not over, 47 states.
I wonder sometimes, why you keep returning to rec.boats. You must
revel in the scorn, bellittlement, mistrust, and general mayhem
we play on you and yours. You are pathetic. We have taken from
you everything you have unjustly bragged about.

--
lets go Brandon...

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True North <princecraft49@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r
> On Tuesday, 5 July 2022 at 15:55:40 UTC-3, Keyser Söze wrote:> On 7/4/22 6:44 PM, Bill wrote: > > John H <jher...@cox.net> wrote: > >> On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 14:58:04 -0000 (UTC), Keyser Soze > >> <keyse...@whitehouse.com> wrote: > >> > >> > >>>> To WayneTrump is the root of all evil. He seems obliviius to the > >>>> civil unrest, crime, graft, corruption, and the ship of state is > >>>> rudderless. All the can say is we're watching and we're doing all > >>>> we can. My question is what are they trying to do to our country, > >>>> and why? Constitution no good.Lets rewrite it. Supreme court no > >>>> good. Lets pack it or get rid of it. Nobody should suffer jail > >>>> time. Go out and buy an electric car NOW. It doesn't matter that > >>>> we dont have infrostructure to support it. Borders dont matter. > >>>> Hunter Biden is the smartest person Sleepy Joe knows. > >>>> > >>>> Im going to celebrate independence day anyway. My flags are coming > >>>> down tomorrow until the next event worth celebrating. > >>> > >>> If you, herring, and bilious bill had any talent, you could revive the > >>> Nairobi Trio and appear to be more clever than any of you are. > >>> https://youtu.be/5-tFyBLo7
1U > >> > >> > >> "That's not a baby kicking, Karen dear, it's just a fetus!" > >> > > > > I guess a lack of talent allows us to be still be married to our first > > wife, not ever declaring bankruptcy, let alone twice. Talk about talent, > > Harry. Yours seems to be to live of others work. > >> You, Herring, and Justin couldn't win, place, or show in a race in which > there were no other horses. And wasn't Herring previously married? > Justin carefully keeps all the details of his life a big secret, and for > good reason. How far can he travel wearing that ankle bracelet? And all > three of you are boringly repetitive. Yawn. > +> -- > * I just want to find 11,780 votes... *I agree wholeheartedly and unequivocally with this post .

Of course you do. You don't have brains enough to think for yourself.
--
lets go Brandon...

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On Tue, 5 Jul 2022 14:55:36 -0400, Keyser Söze
<KeyserSöze@whitehouse.com> wrote:

>On 7/4/22 6:44 PM, Bill wrote:
>> John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 14:58:04 -0000 (UTC), Keyser Soze
>>> <keysersoze@whitehouse.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>> To WayneTrump is the root of all evil. He seems obliviius to the
>>>>> civil unrest, crime, graft, corruption, and the ship of state is
>>>>> rudderless. All the can say is we're watching and we're doing all
>>>>> we can. My question is what are they trying to do to our country,
>>>>> and why? Constitution no good.Lets rewrite it. Supreme court no
>>>>> good. Lets pack it or get rid of it. Nobody should suffer jail
>>>>> time. Go out and buy an electric car NOW. It doesn't matter that
>>>>> we dont have infrostructure to support it. Borders dont matter.
>>>>> Hunter Biden is the smartest person Sleepy Joe knows.
>>>>>
>>>>> Im going to celebrate independence day anyway. My flags are coming
>>>>> down tomorrow until the next event worth celebrating.
>>>>
>>>> If you, herring, and bilious bill had any talent, you could revive the
>>>> Nairobi Trio and appear to be more clever than any of you are.
>>>> https://youtu.be/5-tFyBLo71U
>>>
>>>
>>> "That's not a baby kicking, Karen dear, it's just a fetus!"
>>>
>>
>> I guess a lack of talent allows us to be still be married to our first
>> wife, not ever declaring bankruptcy, let alone twice. Talk about talent,
>> Harry. Yours seems to be to live of others work.
>>
>
>You, Herring, and Justin couldn't win, place, or show in a race in which
>there were no other horses. And wasn't Herring previously married?
>Justin carefully keeps all the details of his life a big secret, and for
>good reason. How far can he travel wearing that ankle bracelet? And all
>three of you are boringly repetitive. Yawn.
>+

Herring paid all his child support. What about you, Harry? Have you
contacted that disabled son of yours yet? You worm.

"That's not a baby kicking, Karen dear, it's just a fetus!"

On Tue, 5 Jul 2022 13:25:44 -0700 (PDT), True North
<princecraft49@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, 5 July 2022 at 15:55:40 UTC-3, Keyser Söze wrote:
>> On 7/4/22 6:44 PM, Bill wrote:
>> > John H <jher...@cox.net> wrote:
>> >> On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 14:58:04 -0000 (UTC), Keyser Soze
>> >> <keyse...@whitehouse.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>> To WayneTrump is the root of all evil. He seems obliviius to the
>> >>>> civil unrest, crime, graft, corruption, and the ship of state is
>> >>>> rudderless. All the can say is we're watching and we're doing all
>> >>>> we can. My question is what are they trying to do to our country,
>> >>>> and why? Constitution no good.Lets rewrite it. Supreme court no
>> >>>> good. Lets pack it or get rid of it. Nobody should suffer jail
>> >>>> time. Go out and buy an electric car NOW. It doesn't matter that
>> >>>> we dont have infrostructure to support it. Borders dont matter.
>> >>>> Hunter Biden is the smartest person Sleepy Joe knows.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Im going to celebrate independence day anyway. My flags are coming
>> >>>> down tomorrow until the next event worth celebrating.
>> >>>
>> >>> If you, herring, and bilious bill had any talent, you could revive the
>> >>> Nairobi Trio and appear to be more clever than any of you are.
>> >>> https://youtu.be/5-tFyBLo71U
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> "That's not a baby kicking, Karen dear, it's just a fetus!"
>> >>
>> >
>> > I guess a lack of talent allows us to be still be married to our first
>> > wife, not ever declaring bankruptcy, let alone twice. Talk about talent,
>> > Harry. Yours seems to be to live of others work.
>> >
>> You, Herring, and Justin couldn't win, place, or show in a race in which
>> there were no other horses. And wasn't Herring previously married?
>> Justin carefully keeps all the details of his life a big secret, and for
>> good reason. How far can he travel wearing that ankle bracelet? And all
>> three of you are boringly repetitive. Yawn.
>> +
>> --
>> * I just want to find 11,780 votes... *
>
>
>I agree wholeheartedly and unequivocally with this post .

Because you're a stupid fuck.

On Tue, 05 Jul 2022 15:59:36 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:

>On Tue, 5 Jul 2022 11:19:00 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On 7/5/2022 11:02 AM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>> On Tue, 5 Jul 2022 07:13:31 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 7/4/2022 4:02 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 06:55:57 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 7/3/2022 8:01 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 12:19:49 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>> "waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com" <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 7:00:11 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 7/2/2022 4:53 PM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 4:16:22 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 07:39:53 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/1/2022 4:58 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 11:56:20 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 2:27:15 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 09:33:30 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >From an op-ed article by Mick Mulvaney in USA Today:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's quite likely that Trump attempted to obstruct justice, which may turn out to be the most serious, and most provable crime he committed according to Mick Mulvaney, Director of the Office of Management and Budget; White House Chief of Staff.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Per Mulvaney, such claims are the threat Trump should be most worried about.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He also described a former White House aide's Tuesday testimony as "eminently credible."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The former acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney wrote on Wednesday that in his view the real threat to former President Donald Trump was evidence that might lead to accusations of obstruction of justice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote that he had previously defended the former president against claims that he did "anything illegal or criminal" in relation to the Capitol riot. He said he was having difficulty maintaining that position, however, particularly after Hutchinson's testimony, which he said he found "eminently credible."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Because after some of the bombshells that got dropped in that hearing, my guess is that things could get very dark for the former president," Mulvaney wrote.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney also said, though, that Tuesday's hearing revealed one real threat to Trump that didn't hinge on Hutchinson's words or credibility. "It is the one that jumped out at me," he wrote. "And it is the one that should most worry the former president."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He referred to the evidence presented by Rep. Liz Cheney of Wyoming toward the end of the hearing consisting of two messages that January 6 panel witnesses said they received before giving their depositions. The messages included allusions to being a "team player" to "stay in the good graces in Trump world" as well as a reminder that Trump read transcripts of interviews.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney said that the implication behind displaying the messages during the hearing was "crystal clear."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "The Jan. 6 committee members believe they have evidence that people within the Trump operation attempted to intimidate witnesses," Mulvaney wrote. "And that, any way you slice it, is obstruction of justice."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you want to bet, if Trump said he wasn't running in 2024, this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whole witch hunt evaporates. De Santis may be taking that option away
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from him anyway.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witch-hunt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /?wiCH ?h?nt/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nounhistorical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noun: witch-hunt; plural noun: witch-hunts; noun: witchhunt; plural noun: witchhunts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a) search for and subsequent persecution of a supposed witch.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> b) informal: a campaign directed against a person or group holding unorthodox or unpopular views.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I take some exception to your use of "witch-hunt" because of its implication of a search for something that isn't real. In my mind, and the mind of many others, Trump's criminality is very real. The question is how best to prove it, and how best to punish it. I'm not sure it's enough to just keep him from running in 2024 but that's a good start. I'd like to see his cult mystique with the right win sector of the Republican party totally annihilated so that we never have to deal with his toxic influence again.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The whole process bothers me. Even you admit, the whole exercise is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> designed to prevent him from running again (two impeachments, one
>>>>>>>>>>>>> after he left office and now you are hanging your hat on the 14th
>>>>>>>>>>>>> amendment)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Isn't this supposed to be up to the voters?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why are you folks so afraid of open and free elections?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would much prefer that he simply gets clobbered in the primaries by
>>>>>>>>>>>>> margins too great to protest. De Santis is already chipping away at
>>>>>>>>>>>>> his base.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I still believe the risks of trying to charge this guy over bullshit
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the social upheaval it might cause is not worth the risk for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> slim chance you can get any kind of conviction by 2024.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The court would still be hearing motions by then.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I mentioned before, Cruz is still in court for a school shooting in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2018 and it was a slam dunk against a kid with few resources to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> present a defense.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trump may be a piece of shit but he is a rich piece of shit who has
>>>>>>>>>>>>> always been surrounded by lawyers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Even Biden the Bozo isn't blaming Trump for much anymore.
>>>>>>>>>>>> It's all "Russia, Russia, Russia".
>>>>>>>>>>> Biden has to be a little careful or someone will point out Russia was
>>>>>>>>>>> pretty quiet on Trump's watch. They got frisky during Obama's watch
>>>>>>>>>>> and started a war on Biden's watch.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Putin had Trump right where he wanted him and didn't want to upset the balance.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://cdn.forumcomm.com/dims4/default/cc2560c/2147483647/strip/false/crop/3259x2423+0+0/resize/1486x1105!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum-communications-production-web.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fbrightspot%2F5d%2F6e%2F99f75ab4481499aab953bee3ff59%2Fcolor-edit-toon-trump-on-nato-and-russia.jpg
>>>>>>>>> Cute.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It's obvious you have an intense dislike for Trump which is
>>>>>>>>> understandable. Based on your many posts about him, your
>>>>>>>>> dislike goes back a long ways ... back when he was in
>>>>>>>>> private business and well before he ran for and won the
>>>>>>>>> Presidency.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But, if you can put that intense dislike and bias aside for
>>>>>>>>> a moment, do you really feel the USA is in better positions
>>>>>>>>> and conditions, economically, domestically and globally
>>>>>>>>> today compared to four years ago?.
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The seeds of inflation were planted on Trump's watch with the Quantitative Easing program. It helped to keep the economy afloat during the Covid crisis but now were paying the price. The same can be said for the global supply chain crisis. Could Trump have done anything about it if still in office? Frankly I doubt it. He would have done a good job of blaming it on someone else however. That's his special talent. Does it not matter to you that he tried to overthrow an election and obstruct the peaceful transfer of power? That is the bedrock of our democracy, and Trump reminds us of how fragile it can be. The vast majority of the electorate saw through his bluff, bluster and bullshit in the 2020 election and rightfully voted him out of office. For better or worse Biden was the only choice. For that we can thank the feckless Republican party who stood by their flawed candidate while the ship was burning.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Obama fiscal policy rewarded his rich contributors, bankers and
>>>>>>> Wall Street but it left the middle class suffering. The more we hear
>>>>>>> about who actually got the money the more pissed people are. They are
>>>>>>> really just scratching the surface of the massive fraud with a few
>>>>>>> small timers who got charged. The big players who raked in millions
>>>>>>> and padded their bottom line with it, like airlines are still free to
>>>>>>> do it again.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have a hunch that history will record the Obama/Biden years as being
>>>>>> the most corrupt in modern times.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would put the stick in the dirt when GHWB took office and we have
>>>>> suffered from bad leadership since. That is both on the corporate and
>>>>> government side. The corporations adopted a 90 day window for their
>>>>> decision making, just trying to make good quarterly numbers, not
>>>>> really building anything and they were supported by the same mentality
>>>>> in Washington. It was all about how Wall Street is doing with no real
>>>>> concern with how things are going on Main Street, what we do next year
>>>>> or how we will ever service the debt they incurred. The Democrats
>>>>> embraced Rubin, Summers, Geithner and Greenspan more than the
>>>>> Republicans.
>>>>> We can complain about the American oligarchs like Jobs, Bezos and Musk
>>>>> but at least they were building things.
>>>>> Musk and Bezos are pretty frustrated with the government too.
>>>>
>>>> When I think of corruption I am not thinking bad policies, etc.
>>>>
>>>> I am thinking corruption in the sense of using the power and
>>>> influence of an elected office for personal financial gains.
>>>> Biden is a perfect example of a smiling, career politician who has his
>>>> hand out everywhere. Hunter's laptop will eventually do him in.
>>>>
>>>> I don't think GWB was corrupt in this sense. You can argue his
>>>> policies but there's no evidence anywhere of him personally
>>>> gaining by them financially, at least not by plan.
>>>>
>>>> This will irk Wayne and Harry but neither did Trump.
>>>
>>
>>> If that is your standard, Nixon was one of the most honest politicians
>>> ever. ;-)
>>>
>>
>>Well, he *was* honest about Checkers. :-)
>
>That was really the last time Nixon was accused of "personally gaining
>... financially".
>He may have been corrupt in gaining more power but it wasn't financial
>corruption benefitting his bottom line.
>My problem with Nixon was how he expanded federal power, largely in an
>unconstitutional way.
>I felt the same way about Reagan to some extent.
>Carter promised to "streamline" government and all he did was add
>additional bloat to existing agencies making them get bigger.
>I really have a hard time liking any of them in my lifetime.
>Eisenhower was the only one who actually reduced the size of
>government but he set the stage for Vietnam and our flawed middle east
>policy.
>Truman was the architect of the cold war and the condition in Korea we
>are still suffering from.
>JFK let his dick almost end life as we know it in Cuba by refusing the
>deal we finally took but not before being one button press away from
>nuclear war with Russia. We were only saved because Vasily Arkhipov, a
>Soviet political officer on the Foxtrot (sub) B-59 would not let the
>captain fire his nuke torpedo after they were depth charged.
>Johnson lied us into Vietnam. The Bushes (and Clinton) lied us into
>Iraq. Obama doubled down in Afghanistan and continued the Iraq war
>after promising he would end both.
>
>Trump's only redeeming quality was that he did not embrace either of
>those stupid wars and chilled the Russians for 4 years. He still
>ballooned the debt as much as Obama with printed money.

On Tue, 05 Jul 2022 17:56:46 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:

>On Tue, 05 Jul 2022 15:59:36 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 5 Jul 2022 11:19:00 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On 7/5/2022 11:02 AM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 5 Jul 2022 07:13:31 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 7/4/2022 4:02 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 06:55:57 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 7/3/2022 8:01 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 12:19:49 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>> "waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com" <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 7:00:11 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 7/2/2022 4:53 PM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 4:16:22 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 07:39:53 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/1/2022 4:58 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 11:56:20 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 2:27:15 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 09:33:30 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >From an op-ed article by Mick Mulvaney in USA Today:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's quite likely that Trump attempted to obstruct justice, which may turn out to be the most serious, and most provable crime he committed according to Mick Mulvaney, Director of the Office of Management and Budget; White House Chief of Staff.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Per Mulvaney, such claims are the threat Trump should be most worried about.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He also described a former White House aide's Tuesday testimony as "eminently credible."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The former acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney wrote on Wednesday that in his view the real threat to former President Donald Trump was evidence that might lead to accusations of obstruction of justice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote that he had previously defended the former president against claims that he did "anything illegal or criminal" in relation to the Capitol riot. He said he was having difficulty maintaining that position, however, particularly after Hutchinson's testimony, which he said he found "eminently credible."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Because after some of the bombshells that got dropped in that hearing, my guess is that things could get very dark for the former president," Mulvaney wrote.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney also said, though, that Tuesday's hearing revealed one real threat to Trump that didn't hinge on Hutchinson's words or credibility. "It is the one that jumped out at me," he wrote. "And it is the one that should most worry the former president."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He referred to the evidence presented by Rep. Liz Cheney of Wyoming toward the end of the hearing consisting of two messages that January 6 panel witnesses said they received before giving their depositions. The messages included allusions to being a "team player" to "stay in the good graces in Trump world" as well as a reminder that Trump read transcripts of interviews.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney said that the implication behind displaying the messages during the hearing was "crystal clear."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "The Jan. 6 committee members believe they have evidence that people within the Trump operation attempted to intimidate witnesses," Mulvaney wrote. "And that, any way you slice it, is obstruction of justice."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you want to bet, if Trump said he wasn't running in 2024, this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whole witch hunt evaporates. De Santis may be taking that option away
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from him anyway.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witch-hunt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /?wiCH ?h?nt/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nounhistorical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noun: witch-hunt; plural noun: witch-hunts; noun: witchhunt; plural noun: witchhunts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a) search for and subsequent persecution of a supposed witch.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> b) informal: a campaign directed against a person or group holding unorthodox or unpopular views.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I take some exception to your use of "witch-hunt" because of its implication of a search for something that isn't real. In my mind, and the mind of many others, Trump's criminality is very real. The question is how best to prove it, and how best to punish it. I'm not sure it's enough to just keep him from running in 2024 but that's a good start. I'd like to see his cult mystique with the right win sector of the Republican party totally annihilated so that we never have to deal with his toxic influence again.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The whole process bothers me. Even you admit, the whole exercise is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> designed to prevent him from running again (two impeachments, one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after he left office and now you are hanging your hat on the 14th
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amendment)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Isn't this supposed to be up to the voters?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why are you folks so afraid of open and free elections?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would much prefer that he simply gets clobbered in the primaries by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> margins too great to protest. De Santis is already chipping away at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his base.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I still believe the risks of trying to charge this guy over bullshit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the social upheaval it might cause is not worth the risk for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> slim chance you can get any kind of conviction by 2024.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The court would still be hearing motions by then.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I mentioned before, Cruz is still in court for a school shooting in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2018 and it was a slam dunk against a kid with few resources to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> present a defense.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trump may be a piece of shit but he is a rich piece of shit who has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> always been surrounded by lawyers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Even Biden the Bozo isn't blaming Trump for much anymore.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's all "Russia, Russia, Russia".
>>>>>>>>>>>> Biden has to be a little careful or someone will point out Russia was
>>>>>>>>>>>> pretty quiet on Trump's watch. They got frisky during Obama's watch
>>>>>>>>>>>> and started a war on Biden's watch.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Putin had Trump right where he wanted him and didn't want to upset the balance.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://cdn.forumcomm.com/dims4/default/cc2560c/2147483647/strip/false/crop/3259x2423+0+0/resize/1486x1105!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum-communications-production-web.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fbrightspot%2F5d%2F6e%2F99f75ab4481499aab953bee3ff59%2Fcolor-edit-toon-trump-on-nato-and-russia.jpg
>>>>>>>>>> Cute.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It's obvious you have an intense dislike for Trump which is
>>>>>>>>>> understandable. Based on your many posts about him, your
>>>>>>>>>> dislike goes back a long ways ... back when he was in
>>>>>>>>>> private business and well before he ran for and won the
>>>>>>>>>> Presidency.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But, if you can put that intense dislike and bias aside for
>>>>>>>>>> a moment, do you really feel the USA is in better positions
>>>>>>>>>> and conditions, economically, domestically and globally
>>>>>>>>>> today compared to four years ago?.
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The seeds of inflation were planted on Trump's watch with the Quantitative Easing program. It helped to keep the economy afloat during the Covid crisis but now were paying the price. The same can be said for the global supply chain crisis. Could Trump have done anything about it if still in office? Frankly I doubt it. He would have done a good job of blaming it on someone else however. That's his special talent. Does it not matter to you that he tried to overthrow an election and obstruct the peaceful transfer of power? That is the bedrock of our democracy, and Trump reminds us of how fragile it can be. The vast majority of the electorate saw through his bluff, bluster and bullshit in the 2020 election and rightfully voted him out of office. For better or worse Biden was the only choice. For that we can thank the feckless Republican party who stood by their flawed candidate while the ship was burning.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Obama fiscal policy rewarded his rich contributors, bankers and
>>>>>>>> Wall Street but it left the middle class suffering. The more we hear
>>>>>>>> about who actually got the money the more pissed people are. They are
>>>>>>>> really just scratching the surface of the massive fraud with a few
>>>>>>>> small timers who got charged. The big players who raked in millions
>>>>>>>> and padded their bottom line with it, like airlines are still free to
>>>>>>>> do it again.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have a hunch that history will record the Obama/Biden years as being
>>>>>>> the most corrupt in modern times.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would put the stick in the dirt when GHWB took office and we have
>>>>>> suffered from bad leadership since. That is both on the corporate and
>>>>>> government side. The corporations adopted a 90 day window for their
>>>>>> decision making, just trying to make good quarterly numbers, not
>>>>>> really building anything and they were supported by the same mentality
>>>>>> in Washington. It was all about how Wall Street is doing with no real
>>>>>> concern with how things are going on Main Street, what we do next year
>>>>>> or how we will ever service the debt they incurred. The Democrats
>>>>>> embraced Rubin, Summers, Geithner and Greenspan more than the
>>>>>> Republicans.
>>>>>> We can complain about the American oligarchs like Jobs, Bezos and Musk
>>>>>> but at least they were building things.
>>>>>> Musk and Bezos are pretty frustrated with the government too.
>>>>>
>>>>> When I think of corruption I am not thinking bad policies, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am thinking corruption in the sense of using the power and
>>>>> influence of an elected office for personal financial gains.
>>>>> Biden is a perfect example of a smiling, career politician who has his
>>>>> hand out everywhere. Hunter's laptop will eventually do him in.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think GWB was corrupt in this sense. You can argue his
>>>>> policies but there's no evidence anywhere of him personally
>>>>> gaining by them financially, at least not by plan.
>>>>>
>>>>> This will irk Wayne and Harry but neither did Trump.
>>>>
>>>
>>>> If that is your standard, Nixon was one of the most honest politicians
>>>> ever. ;-)
>>>>
>>>
>>>Well, he *was* honest about Checkers. :-)
>>
>>That was really the last time Nixon was accused of "personally gaining
>>... financially".
>>He may have been corrupt in gaining more power but it wasn't financial
>>corruption benefitting his bottom line.
>>My problem with Nixon was how he expanded federal power, largely in an
>>unconstitutional way.
>>I felt the same way about Reagan to some extent.
>>Carter promised to "streamline" government and all he did was add
>>additional bloat to existing agencies making them get bigger.
>>I really have a hard time liking any of them in my lifetime.
>>Eisenhower was the only one who actually reduced the size of
>>government but he set the stage for Vietnam and our flawed middle east
>>policy.
>>Truman was the architect of the cold war and the condition in Korea we
>>are still suffering from.
>>JFK let his dick almost end life as we know it in Cuba by refusing the
>>deal we finally took but not before being one button press away from
>>nuclear war with Russia. We were only saved because Vasily Arkhipov, a
>>Soviet political officer on the Foxtrot (sub) B-59 would not let the
>>captain fire his nuke torpedo after they were depth charged.
>>Johnson lied us into Vietnam. The Bushes (and Clinton) lied us into
>>Iraq. Obama doubled down in Afghanistan and continued the Iraq war
>>after promising he would end both.
>>
>>Trump's only redeeming quality was that he did not embrace either of
>>those stupid wars and chilled the Russians for 4 years. He still
>>ballooned the debt as much as Obama with printed money.
>
>And you're a hero because you voted for none of them?

On Tuesday, July 5, 2022 at 7:13:34 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
> On 7/4/2022 4:02 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
> > On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 06:55:57 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On 7/3/2022 8:01 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
> >>> On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 12:19:49 -0700 (PDT),
> >>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 7:00:11 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
> >>>>> On 7/2/2022 4:53 PM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>> On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 4:16:22 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 07:39:53 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On 7/1/2022 4:58 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 11:56:20 -0700 (PDT),
> >>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 2:27:15 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 09:33:30 -0700 (PDT),
> >>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> >From an op-ed article by Mick Mulvaney in USA Today:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> It's quite likely that Trump attempted to obstruct justice, which may turn out to be the most serious, and most provable crime he committed according to Mick Mulvaney, Director of the Office of Management and Budget; White House Chief of Staff.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Per Mulvaney, such claims are the threat Trump should be most worried about.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> He also described a former White House aide's Tuesday testimony as "eminently credible."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> The former acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney wrote on Wednesday that in his view the real threat to former President Donald Trump was evidence that might lead to accusations of obstruction of justice.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote that he had previously defended the former president against claims that he did "anything illegal or criminal" in relation to the Capitol riot. He said he was having difficulty maintaining that position, however, particularly after Hutchinson's testimony, which he said he found "eminently credible."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> "Because after some of the bombshells that got dropped in that hearing, my guess is that things could get very dark for the former president," Mulvaney wrote.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney also said, though, that Tuesday's hearing revealed one real threat to Trump that didn't hinge on Hutchinson's words or credibility. "It is the one that jumped out at me," he wrote. "And it is the one that should most worry the former president."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> He referred to the evidence presented by Rep. Liz Cheney of Wyoming toward the end of the hearing consisting of two messages that January 6 panel witnesses said they received before giving their depositions. The messages included allusions to being a "team player" to "stay in the good graces in Trump world" as well as a reminder that Trump read transcripts of interviews.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney said that the implication behind displaying the messages during the hearing was "crystal clear."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> "The Jan. 6 committee members believe they have evidence that people within the Trump operation attempted to intimidate witnesses," Mulvaney wrote. "And that, any way you slice it, is obstruction of justice."
> >>>>>>>>>>> What do you want to bet, if Trump said he wasn't running in 2024, this
> >>>>>>>>>>> whole witch hunt evaporates. De Santis may be taking that option away
> >>>>>>>>>>> from him anyway.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> ===
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> witch-hunt
> >>>>>>>>>> /?wiCH ?h?nt/
> >>>>>>>>>> nounhistorical
> >>>>>>>>>> noun: witch-hunt; plural noun: witch-hunts; noun: witchhunt; plural noun: witchhunts
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> a) search for and subsequent persecution of a supposed witch.
> >>>>>>>>>> b) informal: a campaign directed against a person or group holding unorthodox or unpopular views.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I take some exception to your use of "witch-hunt" because of its implication of a search for something that isn't real. In my mind, and the mind of many others, Trump's criminality is very real. The question is how best to prove it, and how best to punish it. I'm not sure it's enough to just keep him from running in 2024 but that's a good start. I'd like to see his cult mystique with the right win sector of the Republican party totally annihilated so that we never have to deal with his toxic influence again..
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> The whole process bothers me. Even you admit, the whole exercise is
> >>>>>>>>> designed to prevent him from running again (two impeachments, one
> >>>>>>>>> after he left office and now you are hanging your hat on the 14th
> >>>>>>>>> amendment)
> >>>>>>>>> Isn't this supposed to be up to the voters?
> >>>>>>>>> Why are you folks so afraid of open and free elections?
> >>>>>>>>> I would much prefer that he simply gets clobbered in the primaries by
> >>>>>>>>> margins too great to protest. De Santis is already chipping away at
> >>>>>>>>> his base.
> >>>>>>>>> I still believe the risks of trying to charge this guy over bullshit
> >>>>>>>>> and the social upheaval it might cause is not worth the risk for the
> >>>>>>>>> slim chance you can get any kind of conviction by 2024.
> >>>>>>>>> The court would still be hearing motions by then.
> >>>>>>>>> I mentioned before, Cruz is still in court for a school shooting in
> >>>>>>>>> 2018 and it was a slam dunk against a kid with few resources to
> >>>>>>>>> present a defense.
> >>>>>>>>> Trump may be a piece of shit but he is a rich piece of shit who has
> >>>>>>>>> always been surrounded by lawyers.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Even Biden the Bozo isn't blaming Trump for much anymore.
> >>>>>>>> It's all "Russia, Russia, Russia".
> >>>>>>> Biden has to be a little careful or someone will point out Russia was
> >>>>>>> pretty quiet on Trump's watch. They got frisky during Obama's watch
> >>>>>>> and started a war on Biden's watch.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ===
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Putin had Trump right where he wanted him and didn't want to upset the balance.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> https://cdn.forumcomm.com/dims4/default/cc2560c/2147483647/strip/false/crop/3259x2423+0+0/resize/1486x1105!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum-communications-production-web.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fbrightspot%2F5d%2F6e%2F99f75ab4481499aab953bee3ff59%2Fcolor-edit-toon-trump-on-nato-and-russia.jpg
> >>>>> Cute.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It's obvious you have an intense dislike for Trump which is
> >>>>> understandable. Based on your many posts about him, your
> >>>>> dislike goes back a long ways ... back when he was in
> >>>>> private business and well before he ran for and won the
> >>>>> Presidency.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> But, if you can put that intense dislike and bias aside for
> >>>>> a moment, do you really feel the USA is in better positions
> >>>>> and conditions, economically, domestically and globally
> >>>>> today compared to four years ago?.
> >>>>> --
> >>>>
> >>>> ===
> >>>>
> >>>> The seeds of inflation were planted on Trump's watch with the Quantitative Easing program. It helped to keep the economy afloat during the Covid crisis but now were paying the price. The same can be said for the global supply chain crisis. Could Trump have done anything about it if still in office? Frankly I doubt it. He would have done a good job of blaming it on someone else however. That's his special talent. Does it not matter to you that he tried to overthrow an election and obstruct the peaceful transfer of power? That is the bedrock of our democracy, and Trump reminds us of how fragile it can be. The vast majority of the electorate saw through his bluff, bluster and bullshit in the 2020 election and rightfully voted him out of office. For better or worse Biden was the only choice. For that we can thank the feckless Republican party who stood by their flawed candidate while the ship was burning.
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>> The Obama fiscal policy rewarded his rich contributors, bankers and
> >>> Wall Street but it left the middle class suffering. The more we hear
> >>> about who actually got the money the more pissed people are. They are
> >>> really just scratching the surface of the massive fraud with a few
> >>> small timers who got charged. The big players who raked in millions
> >>> and padded their bottom line with it, like airlines are still free to
> >>> do it again.
> >>>
> >>
> >> I have a hunch that history will record the Obama/Biden years as being
> >> the most corrupt in modern times.
> >
> > I would put the stick in the dirt when GHWB took office and we have
> > suffered from bad leadership since. That is both on the corporate and
> > government side. The corporations adopted a 90 day window for their
> > decision making, just trying to make good quarterly numbers, not
> > really building anything and they were supported by the same mentality
> > in Washington. It was all about how Wall Street is doing with no real
> > concern with how things are going on Main Street, what we do next year
> > or how we will ever service the debt they incurred. The Democrats
> > embraced Rubin, Summers, Geithner and Greenspan more than the
> > Republicans.
> > We can complain about the American oligarchs like Jobs, Bezos and Musk
> > but at least they were building things.
> > Musk and Bezos are pretty frustrated with the government too.
> When I think of corruption I am not thinking bad policies, etc.
>
> I am thinking corruption in the sense of using the power and
> influence of an elected office for personal financial gains.
> Biden is a perfect example of a smiling, career politician who has his
> hand out everywhere. Hunter's laptop will eventually do him in.
>
> I don't think GWB was corrupt in this sense. You can argue his
> policies but there's no evidence anywhere of him personally
> gaining by them financially, at least not by plan.
>
> This will irk Wayne and Harry but neither did Trump.
> --

Justan Ohlphart <me@yourservice.com> wrote:
> Keyser Söze <KeyserSöze@whitehouse.com> Wrote in message:r
>> On 7/4/22 6:44 PM, Bill wrote:> John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:>> On
>> Mon, 4 Jul 2022 14:58:04 -0000 (UTC), Keyser Soze>>
>> <keysersoze@whitehouse.com> wrote:>>>>>>>> To WayneTrump is the root of
>> all evil. He seems obliviius to the>>>> civil unrest, crime, graft,
>> corruption, and the ship of state is>>>> rudderless. All the can say is
>> we're watching and we're doing all>>>> we can. My question is what are
>> they trying to do to our country,>>>> and why? Constitution no good.Lets
>> rewrite it. Supreme court no>>>> good. Lets pack it or get rid of it.
>> Nobody should suffer jail>>>> time. Go out and buy an electric car NOW.
>> It doesn't matter that>>>> we dont have infrostructure to support it.
>> Borders dont matter.>>>> Hunter Biden is the smartest person Sleepy Joe
>> knows.>>>>>>>> Im going to celebrate independence day anyway. My flags
>> are coming>>>> down tomorrow until the next event worth
>> celebrating.>>>>>> If you, herring, and bilious bill had any talent, you
>> could revive the>>> Nairobi Trio and appear to be more clever than any
>> of you are.>>> https://youtu.be/5-tFyBLo71U>>>>>> "That's not a baby
>> kicking, Karen dear, it's just a fetus!">>> > I guess a lack of talent
>> allows us to be still be married to our first> wife, not ever declaring
>> bankruptcy, let alone twice. Talk about talent,> Harry. Yours seems
>> to be to live of others work.> You, Herring, and Justin couldn't win,
>> place, or show in a race in which there were no other horses. And wasn't
>> Herring previously married? Justin carefully keeps all the details of
>> his life a big secret, and for good reason. How far can he travel
>> wearing that ankle bracelet? And all three of you are boringly
>> repetitive. Yawn.+-- * I just want to find 11,780 votes... *
>
> No ankle bracelet for me bub. I pay my taxes. Just in the past 5
> years I've traveled in, not over, 47 states.
> I wonder sometimes, why you keep returning to rec.boats. You must
> revel in the scorn, bellittlement, mistrust, and general mayhem
> we play on you and yours. You are pathetic. We have taken from
> you everything you have unjustly bragged about.
>
>

A handful of you right-wing trashers remind me of how much stupidity and
ignorance there is in this world.

--
Lock Trump Up

On 7/6/2022 1:42 AM, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 5, 2022 at 7:13:34 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>> On 7/4/2022 4:02 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>> On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 06:55:57 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 7/3/2022 8:01 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 12:19:49 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 7:00:11 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>>>> On 7/2/2022 4:53 PM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 4:16:22 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 07:39:53 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 7/1/2022 4:58 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 11:56:20 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 2:27:15 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 09:33:30 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> >From an op-ed article by Mick Mulvaney in USA Today:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's quite likely that Trump attempted to obstruct justice, which may turn out to be the most serious, and most provable crime he committed according to Mick Mulvaney, Director of the Office of Management and Budget; White House Chief of Staff.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Per Mulvaney, such claims are the threat Trump should be most worried about.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He also described a former White House aide's Tuesday testimony as "eminently credible."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The former acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney wrote on Wednesday that in his view the real threat to former President Donald Trump was evidence that might lead to accusations of obstruction of justice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote that he had previously defended the former president against claims that he did "anything illegal or criminal" in relation to the Capitol riot. He said he was having difficulty maintaining that position, however, particularly after Hutchinson's testimony, which he said he found "eminently credible."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Because after some of the bombshells that got dropped in that hearing, my guess is that things could get very dark for the former president," Mulvaney wrote.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney also said, though, that Tuesday's hearing revealed one real threat to Trump that didn't hinge on Hutchinson's words or credibility. "It is the one that jumped out at me," he wrote. "And it is the one that should most worry the former president."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He referred to the evidence presented by Rep. Liz Cheney of Wyoming toward the end of the hearing consisting of two messages that January 6 panel witnesses said they received before giving their depositions. The messages included allusions to being a "team player" to "stay in the good graces in Trump world" as well as a reminder that Trump read transcripts of interviews.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney said that the implication behind displaying the messages during the hearing was "crystal clear."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "The Jan. 6 committee members believe they have evidence that people within the Trump operation attempted to intimidate witnesses," Mulvaney wrote. "And that, any way you slice it, is obstruction of justice."
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you want to bet, if Trump said he wasn't running in 2024, this
>>>>>>>>>>>>> whole witch hunt evaporates. De Santis may be taking that option away
>>>>>>>>>>>>> from him anyway.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> witch-hunt
>>>>>>>>>>>> /?wiCH ?h?nt/
>>>>>>>>>>>> nounhistorical
>>>>>>>>>>>> noun: witch-hunt; plural noun: witch-hunts; noun: witchhunt; plural noun: witchhunts
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> a) search for and subsequent persecution of a supposed witch.
>>>>>>>>>>>> b) informal: a campaign directed against a person or group holding unorthodox or unpopular views.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I take some exception to your use of "witch-hunt" because of its implication of a search for something that isn't real. In my mind, and the mind of many others, Trump's criminality is very real. The question is how best to prove it, and how best to punish it. I'm not sure it's enough to just keep him from running in 2024 but that's a good start. I'd like to see his cult mystique with the right win sector of the Republican party totally annihilated so that we never have to deal with his toxic influence again.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The whole process bothers me. Even you admit, the whole exercise is
>>>>>>>>>>> designed to prevent him from running again (two impeachments, one
>>>>>>>>>>> after he left office and now you are hanging your hat on the 14th
>>>>>>>>>>> amendment)
>>>>>>>>>>> Isn't this supposed to be up to the voters?
>>>>>>>>>>> Why are you folks so afraid of open and free elections?
>>>>>>>>>>> I would much prefer that he simply gets clobbered in the primaries by
>>>>>>>>>>> margins too great to protest. De Santis is already chipping away at
>>>>>>>>>>> his base.
>>>>>>>>>>> I still believe the risks of trying to charge this guy over bullshit
>>>>>>>>>>> and the social upheaval it might cause is not worth the risk for the
>>>>>>>>>>> slim chance you can get any kind of conviction by 2024.
>>>>>>>>>>> The court would still be hearing motions by then.
>>>>>>>>>>> I mentioned before, Cruz is still in court for a school shooting in
>>>>>>>>>>> 2018 and it was a slam dunk against a kid with few resources to
>>>>>>>>>>> present a defense.
>>>>>>>>>>> Trump may be a piece of shit but he is a rich piece of shit who has
>>>>>>>>>>> always been surrounded by lawyers.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Even Biden the Bozo isn't blaming Trump for much anymore.
>>>>>>>>>> It's all "Russia, Russia, Russia".
>>>>>>>>> Biden has to be a little careful or someone will point out Russia was
>>>>>>>>> pretty quiet on Trump's watch. They got frisky during Obama's watch
>>>>>>>>> and started a war on Biden's watch.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Putin had Trump right where he wanted him and didn't want to upset the balance.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://cdn.forumcomm.com/dims4/default/cc2560c/2147483647/strip/false/crop/3259x2423+0+0/resize/1486x1105!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum-communications-production-web.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fbrightspot%2F5d%2F6e%2F99f75ab4481499aab953bee3ff59%2Fcolor-edit-toon-trump-on-nato-and-russia.jpg
>>>>>>> Cute.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's obvious you have an intense dislike for Trump which is
>>>>>>> understandable. Based on your many posts about him, your
>>>>>>> dislike goes back a long ways ... back when he was in
>>>>>>> private business and well before he ran for and won the
>>>>>>> Presidency.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But, if you can put that intense dislike and bias aside for
>>>>>>> a moment, do you really feel the USA is in better positions
>>>>>>> and conditions, economically, domestically and globally
>>>>>>> today compared to four years ago?.
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The seeds of inflation were planted on Trump's watch with the Quantitative Easing program. It helped to keep the economy afloat during the Covid crisis but now were paying the price. The same can be said for the global supply chain crisis. Could Trump have done anything about it if still in office? Frankly I doubt it. He would have done a good job of blaming it on someone else however. That's his special talent. Does it not matter to you that he tried to overthrow an election and obstruct the peaceful transfer of power? That is the bedrock of our democracy, and Trump reminds us of how fragile it can be. The vast majority of the electorate saw through his bluff, bluster and bullshit in the 2020 election and rightfully voted him out of office. For better or worse Biden was the only choice. For that we can thank the feckless Republican party who stood by their flawed candidate while the ship was burning.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The Obama fiscal policy rewarded his rich contributors, bankers and
>>>>> Wall Street but it left the middle class suffering. The more we hear
>>>>> about who actually got the money the more pissed people are. They are
>>>>> really just scratching the surface of the massive fraud with a few
>>>>> small timers who got charged. The big players who raked in millions
>>>>> and padded their bottom line with it, like airlines are still free to
>>>>> do it again.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have a hunch that history will record the Obama/Biden years as being
>>>> the most corrupt in modern times.
>>>
>>> I would put the stick in the dirt when GHWB took office and we have
>>> suffered from bad leadership since. That is both on the corporate and
>>> government side. The corporations adopted a 90 day window for their
>>> decision making, just trying to make good quarterly numbers, not
>>> really building anything and they were supported by the same mentality
>>> in Washington. It was all about how Wall Street is doing with no real
>>> concern with how things are going on Main Street, what we do next year
>>> or how we will ever service the debt they incurred. The Democrats
>>> embraced Rubin, Summers, Geithner and Greenspan more than the
>>> Republicans.
>>> We can complain about the American oligarchs like Jobs, Bezos and Musk
>>> but at least they were building things.
>>> Musk and Bezos are pretty frustrated with the government too.
>> When I think of corruption I am not thinking bad policies, etc.
>>
>> I am thinking corruption in the sense of using the power and
>> influence of an elected office for personal financial gains.
>> Biden is a perfect example of a smiling, career politician who has his
>> hand out everywhere. Hunter's laptop will eventually do him in.
>>
>> I don't think GWB was corrupt in this sense. You can argue his
>> policies but there's no evidence anywhere of him personally
>> gaining by them financially, at least not by plan.
>>
>> This will irk Wayne and Harry but neither did Trump.
>> --
>
>
> ===
>
> I'm not irked at all, in fact I agree with you about GWB. I think the jury is still out on Biden but no one is more corrupt than Trump. It's in his genes. GWBs big failing was putting too much blind faith in Cheney and Rumsfeld..

On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 6:41:52 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
> On 7/6/2022 1:42 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, July 5, 2022 at 7:13:34 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
> >> On 7/4/2022 4:02 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
> >>> On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 06:55:57 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 7/3/2022 8:01 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
> >>>>> On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 12:19:49 -0700 (PDT),
> >>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 7:00:11 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
> >>>>>>> On 7/2/2022 4:53 PM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 4:16:22 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 07:39:53 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland..com>
> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On 7/1/2022 4:58 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 11:56:20 -0700 (PDT),
> >>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 2:27:15 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 09:33:30 -0700 (PDT),
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >From an op-ed article by Mick Mulvaney in USA Today:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's quite likely that Trump attempted to obstruct justice, which may turn out to be the most serious, and most provable crime he committed according to Mick Mulvaney, Director of the Office of Management and Budget; White House Chief of Staff.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Per Mulvaney, such claims are the threat Trump should be most worried about.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> He also described a former White House aide's Tuesday testimony as "eminently credible."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The former acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney wrote on Wednesday that in his view the real threat to former President Donald Trump was evidence that might lead to accusations of obstruction of justice.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote that he had previously defended the former president against claims that he did "anything illegal or criminal" in relation to the Capitol riot. He said he was having difficulty maintaining that position, however, particularly after Hutchinson's testimony, which he said he found "eminently credible."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Because after some of the bombshells that got dropped in that hearing, my guess is that things could get very dark for the former president," Mulvaney wrote.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney also said, though, that Tuesday's hearing revealed one real threat to Trump that didn't hinge on Hutchinson's words or credibility. "It is the one that jumped out at me," he wrote. "And it is the one that should most worry the former president."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> He referred to the evidence presented by Rep. Liz Cheney of Wyoming toward the end of the hearing consisting of two messages that January 6 panel witnesses said they received before giving their depositions. The messages included allusions to being a "team player" to "stay in the good graces in Trump world" as well as a reminder that Trump read transcripts of interviews.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney said that the implication behind displaying the messages during the hearing was "crystal clear."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "The Jan. 6 committee members believe they have evidence that people within the Trump operation attempted to intimidate witnesses," Mulvaney wrote. "And that, any way you slice it, is obstruction of justice."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you want to bet, if Trump said he wasn't running in 2024, this
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> whole witch hunt evaporates. De Santis may be taking that option away
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> from him anyway.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> ===
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> witch-hunt
> >>>>>>>>>>>> /?wiCH ?h?nt/
> >>>>>>>>>>>> nounhistorical
> >>>>>>>>>>>> noun: witch-hunt; plural noun: witch-hunts; noun: witchhunt; plural noun: witchhunts
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> a) search for and subsequent persecution of a supposed witch..
> >>>>>>>>>>>> b) informal: a campaign directed against a person or group holding unorthodox or unpopular views.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I take some exception to your use of "witch-hunt" because of its implication of a search for something that isn't real. In my mind, and the mind of many others, Trump's criminality is very real. The question is how best to prove it, and how best to punish it. I'm not sure it's enough to just keep him from running in 2024 but that's a good start. I'd like to see his cult mystique with the right win sector of the Republican party totally annihilated so that we never have to deal with his toxic influence again.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> The whole process bothers me. Even you admit, the whole exercise is
> >>>>>>>>>>> designed to prevent him from running again (two impeachments, one
> >>>>>>>>>>> after he left office and now you are hanging your hat on the 14th
> >>>>>>>>>>> amendment)
> >>>>>>>>>>> Isn't this supposed to be up to the voters?
> >>>>>>>>>>> Why are you folks so afraid of open and free elections?
> >>>>>>>>>>> I would much prefer that he simply gets clobbered in the primaries by
> >>>>>>>>>>> margins too great to protest. De Santis is already chipping away at
> >>>>>>>>>>> his base.
> >>>>>>>>>>> I still believe the risks of trying to charge this guy over bullshit
> >>>>>>>>>>> and the social upheaval it might cause is not worth the risk for the
> >>>>>>>>>>> slim chance you can get any kind of conviction by 2024.
> >>>>>>>>>>> The court would still be hearing motions by then.
> >>>>>>>>>>> I mentioned before, Cruz is still in court for a school shooting in
> >>>>>>>>>>> 2018 and it was a slam dunk against a kid with few resources to
> >>>>>>>>>>> present a defense.
> >>>>>>>>>>> Trump may be a piece of shit but he is a rich piece of shit who has
> >>>>>>>>>>> always been surrounded by lawyers.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Even Biden the Bozo isn't blaming Trump for much anymore.
> >>>>>>>>>> It's all "Russia, Russia, Russia".
> >>>>>>>>> Biden has to be a little careful or someone will point out Russia was
> >>>>>>>>> pretty quiet on Trump's watch. They got frisky during Obama's watch
> >>>>>>>>> and started a war on Biden's watch.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> ===
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Putin had Trump right where he wanted him and didn't want to upset the balance.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> https://cdn.forumcomm.com/dims4/default/cc2560c/2147483647/strip/false/crop/3259x2423+0+0/resize/1486x1105!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum-communications-production-web.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fbrightspot%2F5d%2F6e%2F99f75ab4481499aab953bee3ff59%2Fcolor-edit-toon-trump-on-nato-and-russia..jpg
> >>>>>>> Cute.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> It's obvious you have an intense dislike for Trump which is
> >>>>>>> understandable. Based on your many posts about him, your
> >>>>>>> dislike goes back a long ways ... back when he was in
> >>>>>>> private business and well before he ran for and won the
> >>>>>>> Presidency.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> But, if you can put that intense dislike and bias aside for
> >>>>>>> a moment, do you really feel the USA is in better positions
> >>>>>>> and conditions, economically, domestically and globally
> >>>>>>> today compared to four years ago?.
> >>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ===
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The seeds of inflation were planted on Trump's watch with the Quantitative Easing program. It helped to keep the economy afloat during the Covid crisis but now were paying the price. The same can be said for the global supply chain crisis. Could Trump have done anything about it if still in office? Frankly I doubt it. He would have done a good job of blaming it on someone else however. That's his special talent. Does it not matter to you that he tried to overthrow an election and obstruct the peaceful transfer of power? That is the bedrock of our democracy, and Trump reminds us of how fragile it can be. The vast majority of the electorate saw through his bluff, bluster and bullshit in the 2020 election and rightfully voted him out of office. For better or worse Biden was the only choice. For that we can thank the feckless Republican party who stood by their flawed candidate while the ship was burning.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> The Obama fiscal policy rewarded his rich contributors, bankers and
> >>>>> Wall Street but it left the middle class suffering. The more we hear
> >>>>> about who actually got the money the more pissed people are. They are
> >>>>> really just scratching the surface of the massive fraud with a few
> >>>>> small timers who got charged. The big players who raked in millions
> >>>>> and padded their bottom line with it, like airlines are still free to
> >>>>> do it again.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I have a hunch that history will record the Obama/Biden years as being
> >>>> the most corrupt in modern times.
> >>>
> >>> I would put the stick in the dirt when GHWB took office and we have
> >>> suffered from bad leadership since. That is both on the corporate and
> >>> government side. The corporations adopted a 90 day window for their
> >>> decision making, just trying to make good quarterly numbers, not
> >>> really building anything and they were supported by the same mentality
> >>> in Washington. It was all about how Wall Street is doing with no real
> >>> concern with how things are going on Main Street, what we do next year
> >>> or how we will ever service the debt they incurred. The Democrats
> >>> embraced Rubin, Summers, Geithner and Greenspan more than the
> >>> Republicans.
> >>> We can complain about the American oligarchs like Jobs, Bezos and Musk
> >>> but at least they were building things.
> >>> Musk and Bezos are pretty frustrated with the government too.
> >> When I think of corruption I am not thinking bad policies, etc.
> >>
> >> I am thinking corruption in the sense of using the power and
> >> influence of an elected office for personal financial gains.
> >> Biden is a perfect example of a smiling, career politician who has his
> >> hand out everywhere. Hunter's laptop will eventually do him in.
> >>
> >> I don't think GWB was corrupt in this sense. You can argue his
> >> policies but there's no evidence anywhere of him personally
> >> gaining by them financially, at least not by plan.
> >>
> >> This will irk Wayne and Harry but neither did Trump.
> >> --
> >
> >
> > ===
> >
> > I'm not irked at all, in fact I agree with you about GWB. I think the jury is still out on Biden but no one is more corrupt than Trump. It's in his genes. GWBs big failing was putting too much blind faith in Cheney and Rumsfeld..
>
>
> I think the jury may be closer to a decision on Biden than you may think.
>
> Have you followed and considered any of the Hunter laptop revelations or
> have you chosen to ignore them as most of the liberal press and media
> has?

On 7/6/2022 10:38 AM, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 6:41:52 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>> On 7/6/2022 1:42 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, July 5, 2022 at 7:13:34 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>> On 7/4/2022 4:02 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 06:55:57 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 7/3/2022 8:01 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 12:19:49 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 7:00:11 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 7/2/2022 4:53 PM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 4:16:22 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 07:39:53 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/1/2022 4:58 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 11:56:20 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 2:27:15 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 09:33:30 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >From an op-ed article by Mick Mulvaney in USA Today:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's quite likely that Trump attempted to obstruct justice, which may turn out to be the most serious, and most provable crime he committed according to Mick Mulvaney, Director of the Office of Management and Budget; White House Chief of Staff.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Per Mulvaney, such claims are the threat Trump should be most worried about.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He also described a former White House aide's Tuesday testimony as "eminently credible."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The former acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney wrote on Wednesday that in his view the real threat to former President Donald Trump was evidence that might lead to accusations of obstruction of justice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote that he had previously defended the former president against claims that he did "anything illegal or criminal" in relation to the Capitol riot. He said he was having difficulty maintaining that position, however, particularly after Hutchinson's testimony, which he said he found "eminently credible."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Because after some of the bombshells that got dropped in that hearing, my guess is that things could get very dark for the former president," Mulvaney wrote.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney also said, though, that Tuesday's hearing revealed one real threat to Trump that didn't hinge on Hutchinson's words or credibility. "It is the one that jumped out at me," he wrote. "And it is the one that should most worry the former president."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He referred to the evidence presented by Rep. Liz Cheney of Wyoming toward the end of the hearing consisting of two messages that January 6 panel witnesses said they received before giving their depositions. The messages included allusions to being a "team player" to "stay in the good graces in Trump world" as well as a reminder that Trump read transcripts of interviews.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney said that the implication behind displaying the messages during the hearing was "crystal clear."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "The Jan. 6 committee members believe they have evidence that people within the Trump operation attempted to intimidate witnesses," Mulvaney wrote. "And that, any way you slice it, is obstruction of justice."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you want to bet, if Trump said he wasn't running in 2024, this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whole witch hunt evaporates. De Santis may be taking that option away
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from him anyway.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witch-hunt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /?wiCH ?h?nt/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nounhistorical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noun: witch-hunt; plural noun: witch-hunts; noun: witchhunt; plural noun: witchhunts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a) search for and subsequent persecution of a supposed witch.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> b) informal: a campaign directed against a person or group holding unorthodox or unpopular views.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I take some exception to your use of "witch-hunt" because of its implication of a search for something that isn't real. In my mind, and the mind of many others, Trump's criminality is very real. The question is how best to prove it, and how best to punish it. I'm not sure it's enough to just keep him from running in 2024 but that's a good start. I'd like to see his cult mystique with the right win sector of the Republican party totally annihilated so that we never have to deal with his toxic influence again.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The whole process bothers me. Even you admit, the whole exercise is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> designed to prevent him from running again (two impeachments, one
>>>>>>>>>>>>> after he left office and now you are hanging your hat on the 14th
>>>>>>>>>>>>> amendment)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Isn't this supposed to be up to the voters?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why are you folks so afraid of open and free elections?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would much prefer that he simply gets clobbered in the primaries by
>>>>>>>>>>>>> margins too great to protest. De Santis is already chipping away at
>>>>>>>>>>>>> his base.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I still believe the risks of trying to charge this guy over bullshit
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the social upheaval it might cause is not worth the risk for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> slim chance you can get any kind of conviction by 2024.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The court would still be hearing motions by then.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I mentioned before, Cruz is still in court for a school shooting in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2018 and it was a slam dunk against a kid with few resources to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> present a defense.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trump may be a piece of shit but he is a rich piece of shit who has
>>>>>>>>>>>>> always been surrounded by lawyers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Even Biden the Bozo isn't blaming Trump for much anymore.
>>>>>>>>>>>> It's all "Russia, Russia, Russia".
>>>>>>>>>>> Biden has to be a little careful or someone will point out Russia was
>>>>>>>>>>> pretty quiet on Trump's watch. They got frisky during Obama's watch
>>>>>>>>>>> and started a war on Biden's watch.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Putin had Trump right where he wanted him and didn't want to upset the balance.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://cdn.forumcomm.com/dims4/default/cc2560c/2147483647/strip/false/crop/3259x2423+0+0/resize/1486x1105!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum-communications-production-web.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fbrightspot%2F5d%2F6e%2F99f75ab4481499aab953bee3ff59%2Fcolor-edit-toon-trump-on-nato-and-russia.jpg
>>>>>>>>> Cute.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It's obvious you have an intense dislike for Trump which is
>>>>>>>>> understandable. Based on your many posts about him, your
>>>>>>>>> dislike goes back a long ways ... back when he was in
>>>>>>>>> private business and well before he ran for and won the
>>>>>>>>> Presidency.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But, if you can put that intense dislike and bias aside for
>>>>>>>>> a moment, do you really feel the USA is in better positions
>>>>>>>>> and conditions, economically, domestically and globally
>>>>>>>>> today compared to four years ago?.
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The seeds of inflation were planted on Trump's watch with the Quantitative Easing program. It helped to keep the economy afloat during the Covid crisis but now were paying the price. The same can be said for the global supply chain crisis. Could Trump have done anything about it if still in office? Frankly I doubt it. He would have done a good job of blaming it on someone else however. That's his special talent. Does it not matter to you that he tried to overthrow an election and obstruct the peaceful transfer of power? That is the bedrock of our democracy, and Trump reminds us of how fragile it can be. The vast majority of the electorate saw through his bluff, bluster and bullshit in the 2020 election and rightfully voted him out of office. For better or worse Biden was the only choice. For that we can thank the feckless Republican party who stood by their flawed candidate while the ship was burning.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Obama fiscal policy rewarded his rich contributors, bankers and
>>>>>>> Wall Street but it left the middle class suffering. The more we hear
>>>>>>> about who actually got the money the more pissed people are. They are
>>>>>>> really just scratching the surface of the massive fraud with a few
>>>>>>> small timers who got charged. The big players who raked in millions
>>>>>>> and padded their bottom line with it, like airlines are still free to
>>>>>>> do it again.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have a hunch that history will record the Obama/Biden years as being
>>>>>> the most corrupt in modern times.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would put the stick in the dirt when GHWB took office and we have
>>>>> suffered from bad leadership since. That is both on the corporate and
>>>>> government side. The corporations adopted a 90 day window for their
>>>>> decision making, just trying to make good quarterly numbers, not
>>>>> really building anything and they were supported by the same mentality
>>>>> in Washington. It was all about how Wall Street is doing with no real
>>>>> concern with how things are going on Main Street, what we do next year
>>>>> or how we will ever service the debt they incurred. The Democrats
>>>>> embraced Rubin, Summers, Geithner and Greenspan more than the
>>>>> Republicans.
>>>>> We can complain about the American oligarchs like Jobs, Bezos and Musk
>>>>> but at least they were building things.
>>>>> Musk and Bezos are pretty frustrated with the government too.
>>>> When I think of corruption I am not thinking bad policies, etc.
>>>>
>>>> I am thinking corruption in the sense of using the power and
>>>> influence of an elected office for personal financial gains.
>>>> Biden is a perfect example of a smiling, career politician who has his
>>>> hand out everywhere. Hunter's laptop will eventually do him in.
>>>>
>>>> I don't think GWB was corrupt in this sense. You can argue his
>>>> policies but there's no evidence anywhere of him personally
>>>> gaining by them financially, at least not by plan.
>>>>
>>>> This will irk Wayne and Harry but neither did Trump.
>>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>> ===
>>>
>>> I'm not irked at all, in fact I agree with you about GWB. I think the jury is still out on Biden but no one is more corrupt than Trump. It's in his genes. GWBs big failing was putting too much blind faith in Cheney and Rumsfeld..
>>
>>
>> I think the jury may be closer to a decision on Biden than you may think.
>>
>> Have you followed and considered any of the Hunter laptop revelations or
>> have you chosen to ignore them as most of the liberal press and media
>> has?
>
> ===
>

On Tue, 5 Jul 2022 22:42:43 -0700 (PDT),
"waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com" <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, July 5, 2022 at 7:13:34 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>> On 7/4/2022 4:02 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>> > On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 06:55:57 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 7/3/2022 8:01 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>> >>> On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 12:19:49 -0700 (PDT),
>> >>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 7:00:11 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>> >>>>> On 7/2/2022 4:53 PM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> >>>>>> On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 4:16:22 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>> >>>>>>> On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 07:39:53 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>
>> >>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>> On 7/1/2022 4:58 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 11:56:20 -0700 (PDT),
>> >>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 2:27:15 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 09:33:30 -0700 (PDT),
>> >>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> >From an op-ed article by Mick Mulvaney in USA Today:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> It's quite likely that Trump attempted to obstruct justice, which may turn out to be the most serious, and most provable crime he committed according to Mick Mulvaney, Director of the Office of Management and Budget; White House Chief of Staff.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Per Mulvaney, such claims are the threat Trump should be most worried about.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> He also described a former White House aide's Tuesday testimony as "eminently credible."
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The former acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney wrote on Wednesday that in his view the real threat to former President Donald Trump was evidence that might lead to accusations of obstruction of justice.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote that he had previously defended the former president against claims that he did "anything illegal or criminal" in relation to the Capitol riot. He said he was having difficulty maintaining that position, however, particularly after Hutchinson's testimony, which he said he found "eminently credible."
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> "Because after some of the bombshells that got dropped in that hearing, my guess is that things could get very dark for the former president," Mulvaney wrote.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney also said, though, that Tuesday's hearing revealed one real threat to Trump that didn't hinge on Hutchinson's words or credibility. "It is the one that jumped out at me," he wrote. "And it is the one that should most worry the former president."
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> He referred to the evidence presented by Rep. Liz Cheney of Wyoming toward the end of the hearing consisting of two messages that January 6 panel witnesses said they received before giving their depositions. The messages included allusions to being a "team player" to "stay in the good graces in Trump world" as well as a reminder that Trump read transcripts of interviews.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney said that the implication behind displaying the messages during the hearing was "crystal clear."
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> "The Jan. 6 committee members believe they have evidence that people within the Trump operation attempted to intimidate witnesses," Mulvaney wrote. "And that, any way you slice it, is obstruction of justice."
>> >>>>>>>>>>> What do you want to bet, if Trump said he wasn't running in 2024, this
>> >>>>>>>>>>> whole witch hunt evaporates. De Santis may be taking that option away
>> >>>>>>>>>>> from him anyway.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> ===
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> witch-hunt
>> >>>>>>>>>> /?wiCH ?h?nt/
>> >>>>>>>>>> nounhistorical
>> >>>>>>>>>> noun: witch-hunt; plural noun: witch-hunts; noun: witchhunt; plural noun: witchhunts
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> a) search for and subsequent persecution of a supposed witch.
>> >>>>>>>>>> b) informal: a campaign directed against a person or group holding unorthodox or unpopular views.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> I take some exception to your use of "witch-hunt" because of its implication of a search for something that isn't real. In my mind, and the mind of many others, Trump's criminality is very real. The question is how best to prove it, and how best to punish it. I'm not sure it's enough to just keep him from running in 2024 but that's a good start. I'd like to see his cult mystique with the right win sector of the Republican party totally annihilated so that we never have to deal with his toxic influence again.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> The whole process bothers me. Even you admit, the whole exercise is
>> >>>>>>>>> designed to prevent him from running again (two impeachments, one
>> >>>>>>>>> after he left office and now you are hanging your hat on the 14th
>> >>>>>>>>> amendment)
>> >>>>>>>>> Isn't this supposed to be up to the voters?
>> >>>>>>>>> Why are you folks so afraid of open and free elections?
>> >>>>>>>>> I would much prefer that he simply gets clobbered in the primaries by
>> >>>>>>>>> margins too great to protest. De Santis is already chipping away at
>> >>>>>>>>> his base.
>> >>>>>>>>> I still believe the risks of trying to charge this guy over bullshit
>> >>>>>>>>> and the social upheaval it might cause is not worth the risk for the
>> >>>>>>>>> slim chance you can get any kind of conviction by 2024.
>> >>>>>>>>> The court would still be hearing motions by then.
>> >>>>>>>>> I mentioned before, Cruz is still in court for a school shooting in
>> >>>>>>>>> 2018 and it was a slam dunk against a kid with few resources to
>> >>>>>>>>> present a defense.
>> >>>>>>>>> Trump may be a piece of shit but he is a rich piece of shit who has
>> >>>>>>>>> always been surrounded by lawyers.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Even Biden the Bozo isn't blaming Trump for much anymore.
>> >>>>>>>> It's all "Russia, Russia, Russia".
>> >>>>>>> Biden has to be a little careful or someone will point out Russia was
>> >>>>>>> pretty quiet on Trump's watch. They got frisky during Obama's watch
>> >>>>>>> and started a war on Biden's watch.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> ===
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Putin had Trump right where he wanted him and didn't want to upset the balance.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> https://cdn.forumcomm.com/dims4/default/cc2560c/2147483647/strip/false/crop/3259x2423+0+0/resize/1486x1105!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum-communications-production-web.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fbrightspot%2F5d%2F6e%2F99f75ab4481499aab953bee3ff59%2Fcolor-edit-toon-trump-on-nato-and-russia.jpg
>> >>>>> Cute.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> It's obvious you have an intense dislike for Trump which is
>> >>>>> understandable. Based on your many posts about him, your
>> >>>>> dislike goes back a long ways ... back when he was in
>> >>>>> private business and well before he ran for and won the
>> >>>>> Presidency.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> But, if you can put that intense dislike and bias aside for
>> >>>>> a moment, do you really feel the USA is in better positions
>> >>>>> and conditions, economically, domestically and globally
>> >>>>> today compared to four years ago?.
>> >>>>> --
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ===
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The seeds of inflation were planted on Trump's watch with the Quantitative Easing program. It helped to keep the economy afloat during the Covid crisis but now were paying the price. The same can be said for the global supply chain crisis. Could Trump have done anything about it if still in office? Frankly I doubt it. He would have done a good job of blaming it on someone else however. That's his special talent. Does it not matter to you that he tried to overthrow an election and obstruct the peaceful transfer of power? That is the bedrock of our democracy, and Trump reminds us of how fragile it can be. The vast majority of the electorate saw through his bluff, bluster and bullshit in the 2020 election and rightfully voted him out of office. For better or worse Biden was the only choice. For that we can thank the feckless Republican party who stood by their flawed candidate while the ship was burning.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> The Obama fiscal policy rewarded his rich contributors, bankers and
>> >>> Wall Street but it left the middle class suffering. The more we hear
>> >>> about who actually got the money the more pissed people are. They are
>> >>> really just scratching the surface of the massive fraud with a few
>> >>> small timers who got charged. The big players who raked in millions
>> >>> and padded their bottom line with it, like airlines are still free to
>> >>> do it again.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> I have a hunch that history will record the Obama/Biden years as being
>> >> the most corrupt in modern times.
>> >
>> > I would put the stick in the dirt when GHWB took office and we have
>> > suffered from bad leadership since. That is both on the corporate and
>> > government side. The corporations adopted a 90 day window for their
>> > decision making, just trying to make good quarterly numbers, not
>> > really building anything and they were supported by the same mentality
>> > in Washington. It was all about how Wall Street is doing with no real
>> > concern with how things are going on Main Street, what we do next year
>> > or how we will ever service the debt they incurred. The Democrats
>> > embraced Rubin, Summers, Geithner and Greenspan more than the
>> > Republicans.
>> > We can complain about the American oligarchs like Jobs, Bezos and Musk
>> > but at least they were building things.
>> > Musk and Bezos are pretty frustrated with the government too.
>> When I think of corruption I am not thinking bad policies, etc.
>>
>> I am thinking corruption in the sense of using the power and
>> influence of an elected office for personal financial gains.
>> Biden is a perfect example of a smiling, career politician who has his
>> hand out everywhere. Hunter's laptop will eventually do him in.
>>
>> I don't think GWB was corrupt in this sense. You can argue his
>> policies but there's no evidence anywhere of him personally
>> gaining by them financially, at least not by plan.
>>
>> This will irk Wayne and Harry but neither did Trump.
>> --
>
>
>===
>
>I'm not irked at all, in fact I agree with you about GWB. I think the jury is still out on Biden but no one is more corrupt than Trump. It's in his genes. GWBs big failing was putting too much blind faith in Cheney and Rumsfeld.

On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 10:08:57 -0000 (UTC), Keyser Soze
<keysersoze@whitehouse.com> wrote:

>Justan Ohlphart <me@yourservice.com> wrote:
>> Keyser Söze <KeyserSöze@whitehouse.com> Wrote in message:r
>>> On 7/4/22 6:44 PM, Bill wrote:> John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:>> On
>>> Mon, 4 Jul 2022 14:58:04 -0000 (UTC), Keyser Soze>>
>>> <keysersoze@whitehouse.com> wrote:>>>>>>>> To WayneTrump is the root of
>>> all evil. He seems obliviius to the>>>> civil unrest, crime, graft,
>>> corruption, and the ship of state is>>>> rudderless. All the can say is
>>> we're watching and we're doing all>>>> we can. My question is what are
>>> they trying to do to our country,>>>> and why? Constitution no good.Lets
>>> rewrite it. Supreme court no>>>> good. Lets pack it or get rid of it.
>>> Nobody should suffer jail>>>> time. Go out and buy an electric car NOW.
>>> It doesn't matter that>>>> we dont have infrostructure to support it.
>>> Borders dont matter.>>>> Hunter Biden is the smartest person Sleepy Joe
>>> knows.>>>>>>>> Im going to celebrate independence day anyway. My flags
>>> are coming>>>> down tomorrow until the next event worth
>>> celebrating.>>>>>> If you, herring, and bilious bill had any talent, you
>>> could revive the>>> Nairobi Trio and appear to be more clever than any
>>> of you are.>>> https://youtu.be/5-tFyBLo71U>>>>>> "That's not a baby
>>> kicking, Karen dear, it's just a fetus!">>> > I guess a lack of talent
>>> allows us to be still be married to our first> wife, not ever declaring
>>> bankruptcy, let alone twice. Talk about talent,> Harry. Yours seems
>>> to be to live of others work.> You, Herring, and Justin couldn't win,
>>> place, or show in a race in which there were no other horses. And wasn't
>>> Herring previously married? Justin carefully keeps all the details of
>>> his life a big secret, and for good reason. How far can he travel
>>> wearing that ankle bracelet? And all three of you are boringly
>>> repetitive. Yawn.+-- * I just want to find 11,780 votes... *
>>
>> No ankle bracelet for me bub. I pay my taxes. Just in the past 5
>> years I've traveled in, not over, 47 states.
>> I wonder sometimes, why you keep returning to rec.boats. You must
>> revel in the scorn, bellittlement, mistrust, and general mayhem
>> we play on you and yours. You are pathetic. We have taken from
>> you everything you have unjustly bragged about.
>>
>>
>
>A handful of you right-wing trashers remind me of how much stupidity and
>ignorance there is in this world.

Stupidity and ignorance seems to drive the political process and the
view of politicians. Nobody wants to admit "their" politicians are
corrupt and it seems everyone in the opposition thinks the last or
current one from the other side is the "worst ever".
Compared to people like Grant, LBJ, Harding and even Reagan, Trump's
corruption barely bumps the needle. At least he didn't cause the death
of millions, topple democratically elected governments and condone the
smuggling of drugs to advance his ambitions. I think most of our
presidents have been involved in political corruption, bribery and
intimidation. That even includes supposed "good" guys like JFK and
Truman.

On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 07:38:24 -0700 (PDT),
"waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com" <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 6:41:52 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>> On 7/6/2022 1:42 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> > On Tuesday, July 5, 2022 at 7:13:34 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>> >> On 7/4/2022 4:02 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>> >>> On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 06:55:57 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> On 7/3/2022 8:01 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>> >>>>> On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 12:19:49 -0700 (PDT),
>> >>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 7:00:11 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>> >>>>>>> On 7/2/2022 4:53 PM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> >>>>>>>> On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 4:16:22 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>> On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 07:39:53 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>
>> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>> On 7/1/2022 4:58 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 11:56:20 -0700 (PDT),
>> >>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 2:27:15 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 09:33:30 -0700 (PDT),
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >From an op-ed article by Mick Mulvaney in USA Today:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's quite likely that Trump attempted to obstruct justice, which may turn out to be the most serious, and most provable crime he committed according to Mick Mulvaney, Director of the Office of Management and Budget; White House Chief of Staff.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Per Mulvaney, such claims are the threat Trump should be most worried about.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> He also described a former White House aide's Tuesday testimony as "eminently credible."
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The former acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney wrote on Wednesday that in his view the real threat to former President Donald Trump was evidence that might lead to accusations of obstruction of justice.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote that he had previously defended the former president against claims that he did "anything illegal or criminal" in relation to the Capitol riot. He said he was having difficulty maintaining that position, however, particularly after Hutchinson's testimony, which he said he found "eminently credible."
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Because after some of the bombshells that got dropped in that hearing, my guess is that things could get very dark for the former president," Mulvaney wrote.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney also said, though, that Tuesday's hearing revealed one real threat to Trump that didn't hinge on Hutchinson's words or credibility. "It is the one that jumped out at me," he wrote. "And it is the one that should most worry the former president."
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> He referred to the evidence presented by Rep. Liz Cheney of Wyoming toward the end of the hearing consisting of two messages that January 6 panel witnesses said they received before giving their depositions. The messages included allusions to being a "team player" to "stay in the good graces in Trump world" as well as a reminder that Trump read transcripts of interviews.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney said that the implication behind displaying the messages during the hearing was "crystal clear."
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "The Jan. 6 committee members believe they have evidence that people within the Trump operation attempted to intimidate witnesses," Mulvaney wrote. "And that, any way you slice it, is obstruction of justice."
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you want to bet, if Trump said he wasn't running in 2024, this
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> whole witch hunt evaporates. De Santis may be taking that option away
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> from him anyway.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> witch-hunt
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> /?wiCH ?h?nt/
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> nounhistorical
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> noun: witch-hunt; plural noun: witch-hunts; noun: witchhunt; plural noun: witchhunts
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> a) search for and subsequent persecution of a supposed witch.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> b) informal: a campaign directed against a person or group holding unorthodox or unpopular views.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I take some exception to your use of "witch-hunt" because of its implication of a search for something that isn't real. In my mind, and the mind of many others, Trump's criminality is very real. The question is how best to prove it, and how best to punish it. I'm not sure it's enough to just keep him from running in 2024 but that's a good start. I'd like to see his cult mystique with the right win sector of the Republican party totally annihilated so that we never have to deal with his toxic influence again.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> The whole process bothers me. Even you admit, the whole exercise is
>> >>>>>>>>>>> designed to prevent him from running again (two impeachments, one
>> >>>>>>>>>>> after he left office and now you are hanging your hat on the 14th
>> >>>>>>>>>>> amendment)
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Isn't this supposed to be up to the voters?
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Why are you folks so afraid of open and free elections?
>> >>>>>>>>>>> I would much prefer that he simply gets clobbered in the primaries by
>> >>>>>>>>>>> margins too great to protest. De Santis is already chipping away at
>> >>>>>>>>>>> his base.
>> >>>>>>>>>>> I still believe the risks of trying to charge this guy over bullshit
>> >>>>>>>>>>> and the social upheaval it might cause is not worth the risk for the
>> >>>>>>>>>>> slim chance you can get any kind of conviction by 2024.
>> >>>>>>>>>>> The court would still be hearing motions by then.
>> >>>>>>>>>>> I mentioned before, Cruz is still in court for a school shooting in
>> >>>>>>>>>>> 2018 and it was a slam dunk against a kid with few resources to
>> >>>>>>>>>>> present a defense.
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Trump may be a piece of shit but he is a rich piece of shit who has
>> >>>>>>>>>>> always been surrounded by lawyers.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Even Biden the Bozo isn't blaming Trump for much anymore.
>> >>>>>>>>>> It's all "Russia, Russia, Russia".
>> >>>>>>>>> Biden has to be a little careful or someone will point out Russia was
>> >>>>>>>>> pretty quiet on Trump's watch. They got frisky during Obama's watch
>> >>>>>>>>> and started a war on Biden's watch.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> ===
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Putin had Trump right where he wanted him and didn't want to upset the balance.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> https://cdn.forumcomm.com/dims4/default/cc2560c/2147483647/strip/false/crop/3259x2423+0+0/resize/1486x1105!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum-communications-production-web.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fbrightspot%2F5d%2F6e%2F99f75ab4481499aab953bee3ff59%2Fcolor-edit-toon-trump-on-nato-and-russia.jpg
>> >>>>>>> Cute.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> It's obvious you have an intense dislike for Trump which is
>> >>>>>>> understandable. Based on your many posts about him, your
>> >>>>>>> dislike goes back a long ways ... back when he was in
>> >>>>>>> private business and well before he ran for and won the
>> >>>>>>> Presidency.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> But, if you can put that intense dislike and bias aside for
>> >>>>>>> a moment, do you really feel the USA is in better positions
>> >>>>>>> and conditions, economically, domestically and globally
>> >>>>>>> today compared to four years ago?.
>> >>>>>>> --
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> ===
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> The seeds of inflation were planted on Trump's watch with the Quantitative Easing program. It helped to keep the economy afloat during the Covid crisis but now were paying the price. The same can be said for the global supply chain crisis. Could Trump have done anything about it if still in office? Frankly I doubt it. He would have done a good job of blaming it on someone else however. That's his special talent. Does it not matter to you that he tried to overthrow an election and obstruct the peaceful transfer of power? That is the bedrock of our democracy, and Trump reminds us of how fragile it can be. The vast majority of the electorate saw through his bluff, bluster and bullshit in the 2020 election and rightfully voted him out of office. For better or worse Biden was the only choice. For that we can thank the feckless Republican party who stood by their flawed candidate while the ship was burning.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> The Obama fiscal policy rewarded his rich contributors, bankers and
>> >>>>> Wall Street but it left the middle class suffering. The more we hear
>> >>>>> about who actually got the money the more pissed people are. They are
>> >>>>> really just scratching the surface of the massive fraud with a few
>> >>>>> small timers who got charged. The big players who raked in millions
>> >>>>> and padded their bottom line with it, like airlines are still free to
>> >>>>> do it again.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I have a hunch that history will record the Obama/Biden years as being
>> >>>> the most corrupt in modern times.
>> >>>
>> >>> I would put the stick in the dirt when GHWB took office and we have
>> >>> suffered from bad leadership since. That is both on the corporate and
>> >>> government side. The corporations adopted a 90 day window for their
>> >>> decision making, just trying to make good quarterly numbers, not
>> >>> really building anything and they were supported by the same mentality
>> >>> in Washington. It was all about how Wall Street is doing with no real
>> >>> concern with how things are going on Main Street, what we do next year
>> >>> or how we will ever service the debt they incurred. The Democrats
>> >>> embraced Rubin, Summers, Geithner and Greenspan more than the
>> >>> Republicans.
>> >>> We can complain about the American oligarchs like Jobs, Bezos and Musk
>> >>> but at least they were building things.
>> >>> Musk and Bezos are pretty frustrated with the government too.
>> >> When I think of corruption I am not thinking bad policies, etc.
>> >>
>> >> I am thinking corruption in the sense of using the power and
>> >> influence of an elected office for personal financial gains.
>> >> Biden is a perfect example of a smiling, career politician who has his
>> >> hand out everywhere. Hunter's laptop will eventually do him in.
>> >>
>> >> I don't think GWB was corrupt in this sense. You can argue his
>> >> policies but there's no evidence anywhere of him personally
>> >> gaining by them financially, at least not by plan.
>> >>
>> >> This will irk Wayne and Harry but neither did Trump.
>> >> --
>> >
>> >
>> > ===
>> >
>> > I'm not irked at all, in fact I agree with you about GWB. I think the jury is still out on Biden but no one is more corrupt than Trump. It's in his genes. GWBs big failing was putting too much blind faith in Cheney and Rumsfeld..
>>
>>
>> I think the jury may be closer to a decision on Biden than you may think.
>>
>> Have you followed and considered any of the Hunter laptop revelations or
>> have you chosen to ignore them as most of the liberal press and media
>> has?
>
>===
>
>I've mostly ignored the Hunter allegations since he's just leveraging his family connections like so many others. Is Joe responsible for the actions of his adult son? If Hunter has broken laws he should be prosecuted like anyone else.

On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 10:49:22 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com>
wrote:

>On 7/6/2022 10:38 AM, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote:
>> On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 6:41:52 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>> On 7/6/2022 1:42 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, July 5, 2022 at 7:13:34 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>> On 7/4/2022 4:02 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 06:55:57 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 7/3/2022 8:01 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 12:19:49 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 7:00:11 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 7/2/2022 4:53 PM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 4:16:22 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 07:39:53 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/1/2022 4:58 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 11:56:20 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 2:27:15 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 09:33:30 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >From an op-ed article by Mick Mulvaney in USA Today:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's quite likely that Trump attempted to obstruct justice, which may turn out to be the most serious, and most provable crime he committed according to Mick Mulvaney, Director of the Office of Management and Budget; White House Chief of Staff.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Per Mulvaney, such claims are the threat Trump should be most worried about.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He also described a former White House aide's Tuesday testimony as "eminently credible."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The former acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney wrote on Wednesday that in his view the real threat to former President Donald Trump was evidence that might lead to accusations of obstruction of justice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote that he had previously defended the former president against claims that he did "anything illegal or criminal" in relation to the Capitol riot. He said he was having difficulty maintaining that position, however, particularly after Hutchinson's testimony, which he said he found "eminently credible."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Because after some of the bombshells that got dropped in that hearing, my guess is that things could get very dark for the former president," Mulvaney wrote.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney also said, though, that Tuesday's hearing revealed one real threat to Trump that didn't hinge on Hutchinson's words or credibility. "It is the one that jumped out at me," he wrote. "And it is the one that should most worry the former president."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He referred to the evidence presented by Rep. Liz Cheney of Wyoming toward the end of the hearing consisting of two messages that January 6 panel witnesses said they received before giving their depositions. The messages included allusions to being a "team player" to "stay in the good graces in Trump world" as well as a reminder that Trump read transcripts of interviews.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney said that the implication behind displaying the messages during the hearing was "crystal clear."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "The Jan. 6 committee members believe they have evidence that people within the Trump operation attempted to intimidate witnesses," Mulvaney wrote. "And that, any way you slice it, is obstruction of justice."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you want to bet, if Trump said he wasn't running in 2024, this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whole witch hunt evaporates. De Santis may be taking that option away
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from him anyway.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witch-hunt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /?wiCH ?h?nt/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nounhistorical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noun: witch-hunt; plural noun: witch-hunts; noun: witchhunt; plural noun: witchhunts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a) search for and subsequent persecution of a supposed witch.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> b) informal: a campaign directed against a person or group holding unorthodox or unpopular views.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I take some exception to your use of "witch-hunt" because of its implication of a search for something that isn't real. In my mind, and the mind of many others, Trump's criminality is very real. The question is how best to prove it, and how best to punish it. I'm not sure it's enough to just keep him from running in 2024 but that's a good start. I'd like to see his cult mystique with the right win sector of the Republican party totally annihilated so that we never have to deal with his toxic influence again.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The whole process bothers me. Even you admit, the whole exercise is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> designed to prevent him from running again (two impeachments, one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after he left office and now you are hanging your hat on the 14th
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amendment)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Isn't this supposed to be up to the voters?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why are you folks so afraid of open and free elections?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would much prefer that he simply gets clobbered in the primaries by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> margins too great to protest. De Santis is already chipping away at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his base.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I still believe the risks of trying to charge this guy over bullshit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the social upheaval it might cause is not worth the risk for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> slim chance you can get any kind of conviction by 2024.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The court would still be hearing motions by then.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I mentioned before, Cruz is still in court for a school shooting in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2018 and it was a slam dunk against a kid with few resources to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> present a defense.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trump may be a piece of shit but he is a rich piece of shit who has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> always been surrounded by lawyers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Even Biden the Bozo isn't blaming Trump for much anymore.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's all "Russia, Russia, Russia".
>>>>>>>>>>>> Biden has to be a little careful or someone will point out Russia was
>>>>>>>>>>>> pretty quiet on Trump's watch. They got frisky during Obama's watch
>>>>>>>>>>>> and started a war on Biden's watch.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Putin had Trump right where he wanted him and didn't want to upset the balance.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://cdn.forumcomm.com/dims4/default/cc2560c/2147483647/strip/false/crop/3259x2423+0+0/resize/1486x1105!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum-communications-production-web.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fbrightspot%2F5d%2F6e%2F99f75ab4481499aab953bee3ff59%2Fcolor-edit-toon-trump-on-nato-and-russia.jpg
>>>>>>>>>> Cute.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It's obvious you have an intense dislike for Trump which is
>>>>>>>>>> understandable. Based on your many posts about him, your
>>>>>>>>>> dislike goes back a long ways ... back when he was in
>>>>>>>>>> private business and well before he ran for and won the
>>>>>>>>>> Presidency.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But, if you can put that intense dislike and bias aside for
>>>>>>>>>> a moment, do you really feel the USA is in better positions
>>>>>>>>>> and conditions, economically, domestically and globally
>>>>>>>>>> today compared to four years ago?.
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The seeds of inflation were planted on Trump's watch with the Quantitative Easing program. It helped to keep the economy afloat during the Covid crisis but now were paying the price. The same can be said for the global supply chain crisis. Could Trump have done anything about it if still in office? Frankly I doubt it. He would have done a good job of blaming it on someone else however. That's his special talent. Does it not matter to you that he tried to overthrow an election and obstruct the peaceful transfer of power? That is the bedrock of our democracy, and Trump reminds us of how fragile it can be. The vast majority of the electorate saw through his bluff, bluster and bullshit in the 2020 election and rightfully voted him out of office. For better or worse Biden was the only choice. For that we can thank the feckless Republican party who stood by their flawed candidate while the ship was burning.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Obama fiscal policy rewarded his rich contributors, bankers and
>>>>>>>> Wall Street but it left the middle class suffering. The more we hear
>>>>>>>> about who actually got the money the more pissed people are. They are
>>>>>>>> really just scratching the surface of the massive fraud with a few
>>>>>>>> small timers who got charged. The big players who raked in millions
>>>>>>>> and padded their bottom line with it, like airlines are still free to
>>>>>>>> do it again.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have a hunch that history will record the Obama/Biden years as being
>>>>>>> the most corrupt in modern times.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would put the stick in the dirt when GHWB took office and we have
>>>>>> suffered from bad leadership since. That is both on the corporate and
>>>>>> government side. The corporations adopted a 90 day window for their
>>>>>> decision making, just trying to make good quarterly numbers, not
>>>>>> really building anything and they were supported by the same mentality
>>>>>> in Washington. It was all about how Wall Street is doing with no real
>>>>>> concern with how things are going on Main Street, what we do next year
>>>>>> or how we will ever service the debt they incurred. The Democrats
>>>>>> embraced Rubin, Summers, Geithner and Greenspan more than the
>>>>>> Republicans.
>>>>>> We can complain about the American oligarchs like Jobs, Bezos and Musk
>>>>>> but at least they were building things.
>>>>>> Musk and Bezos are pretty frustrated with the government too.
>>>>> When I think of corruption I am not thinking bad policies, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am thinking corruption in the sense of using the power and
>>>>> influence of an elected office for personal financial gains.
>>>>> Biden is a perfect example of a smiling, career politician who has his
>>>>> hand out everywhere. Hunter's laptop will eventually do him in.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think GWB was corrupt in this sense. You can argue his
>>>>> policies but there's no evidence anywhere of him personally
>>>>> gaining by them financially, at least not by plan.
>>>>>
>>>>> This will irk Wayne and Harry but neither did Trump.
>>>>> --
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ===
>>>>
>>>> I'm not irked at all, in fact I agree with you about GWB. I think the jury is still out on Biden but no one is more corrupt than Trump. It's in his genes. GWBs big failing was putting too much blind faith in Cheney and Rumsfeld..
>>>
>>>
>>> I think the jury may be closer to a decision on Biden than you may think.
>>>
>>> Have you followed and considered any of the Hunter laptop revelations or
>>> have you chosen to ignore them as most of the liberal press and media
>>> has?
>>
>> ===
>>
>
>
>
>> I've mostly ignored the Hunter allegations since he's just leveraging his family connections like so many others. Is Joe responsible for the actions of his adult son? If Hunter has broken laws he should be prosecuted like anyone else.
>
>If some of the allegations are true (I am not saying they *are*) broken
>laws may extend beyond Hunter. In fact, it could turn out that Hunter
>technically broke no laws but if his daddy shared financially in his
>business activities, especially when VP, this could become a really
>big legal issue.

On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 2:20:17 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 10:49:22 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On 7/6/2022 10:38 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 6:41:52 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
> >>> On 7/6/2022 1:42 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >>>> On Tuesday, July 5, 2022 at 7:13:34 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
> >>>>> On 7/4/2022 4:02 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
> >>>>>> On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 06:55:57 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 7/3/2022 8:01 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 12:19:49 -0700 (PDT),
> >>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 7:00:11 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On 7/2/2022 4:53 PM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 4:16:22 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 07:39:53 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/1/2022 4:58 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 11:56:20 -0700 (PDT),
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 2:27:15 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 09:33:30 -0700 (PDT),
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >From an op-ed article by Mick Mulvaney in USA Today:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's quite likely that Trump attempted to obstruct justice, which may turn out to be the most serious, and most provable crime he committed according to Mick Mulvaney, Director of the Office of Management and Budget; White House Chief of Staff.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Per Mulvaney, such claims are the threat Trump should be most worried about.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He also described a former White House aide's Tuesday testimony as "eminently credible."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The former acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney wrote on Wednesday that in his view the real threat to former President Donald Trump was evidence that might lead to accusations of obstruction of justice.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote that he had previously defended the former president against claims that he did "anything illegal or criminal" in relation to the Capitol riot. He said he was having difficulty maintaining that position, however, particularly after Hutchinson's testimony, which he said he found "eminently credible."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Because after some of the bombshells that got dropped in that hearing, my guess is that things could get very dark for the former president," Mulvaney wrote.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney also said, though, that Tuesday's hearing revealed one real threat to Trump that didn't hinge on Hutchinson's words or credibility. "It is the one that jumped out at me," he wrote. "And it is the one that should most worry the former president."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He referred to the evidence presented by Rep. Liz Cheney of Wyoming toward the end of the hearing consisting of two messages that January 6 panel witnesses said they received before giving their depositions. The messages included allusions to being a "team player" to "stay in the good graces in Trump world" as well as a reminder that Trump read transcripts of interviews.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney said that the implication behind displaying the messages during the hearing was "crystal clear."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "The Jan. 6 committee members believe they have evidence that people within the Trump operation attempted to intimidate witnesses," Mulvaney wrote. "And that, any way you slice it, is obstruction of justice."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you want to bet, if Trump said he wasn't running in 2024, this
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whole witch hunt evaporates. De Santis may be taking that option away
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from him anyway.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witch-hunt
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /?wiCH ?h?nt/
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nounhistorical
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noun: witch-hunt; plural noun: witch-hunts; noun: witchhunt; plural noun: witchhunts
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a) search for and subsequent persecution of a supposed witch.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> b) informal: a campaign directed against a person or group holding unorthodox or unpopular views.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I take some exception to your use of "witch-hunt" because of its implication of a search for something that isn't real. In my mind, and the mind of many others, Trump's criminality is very real. The question is how best to prove it, and how best to punish it. I'm not sure it's enough to just keep him from running in 2024 but that's a good start. I'd like to see his cult mystique with the right win sector of the Republican party totally annihilated so that we never have to deal with his toxic influence again.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The whole process bothers me. Even you admit, the whole exercise is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> designed to prevent him from running again (two impeachments, one
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> after he left office and now you are hanging your hat on the 14th
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> amendment)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Isn't this supposed to be up to the voters?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why are you folks so afraid of open and free elections?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would much prefer that he simply gets clobbered in the primaries by
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> margins too great to protest. De Santis is already chipping away at
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> his base.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I still believe the risks of trying to charge this guy over bullshit
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the social upheaval it might cause is not worth the risk for the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> slim chance you can get any kind of conviction by 2024.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The court would still be hearing motions by then.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I mentioned before, Cruz is still in court for a school shooting in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2018 and it was a slam dunk against a kid with few resources to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> present a defense.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trump may be a piece of shit but he is a rich piece of shit who has
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> always been surrounded by lawyers.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Even Biden the Bozo isn't blaming Trump for much anymore.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> It's all "Russia, Russia, Russia".
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Biden has to be a little careful or someone will point out Russia was
> >>>>>>>>>>>> pretty quiet on Trump's watch. They got frisky during Obama's watch
> >>>>>>>>>>>> and started a war on Biden's watch.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> ===
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Putin had Trump right where he wanted him and didn't want to upset the balance.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> https://cdn.forumcomm.com/dims4/default/cc2560c/2147483647/strip/false/crop/3259x2423+0+0/resize/1486x1105!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum-communications-production-web.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fbrightspot%2F5d%2F6e%2F99f75ab4481499aab953bee3ff59%2Fcolor-edit-toon-trump-on-nato-and-russia.jpg
> >>>>>>>>>> Cute.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> It's obvious you have an intense dislike for Trump which is
> >>>>>>>>>> understandable. Based on your many posts about him, your
> >>>>>>>>>> dislike goes back a long ways ... back when he was in
> >>>>>>>>>> private business and well before he ran for and won the
> >>>>>>>>>> Presidency.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> But, if you can put that intense dislike and bias aside for
> >>>>>>>>>> a moment, do you really feel the USA is in better positions
> >>>>>>>>>> and conditions, economically, domestically and globally
> >>>>>>>>>> today compared to four years ago?.
> >>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> ===
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> The seeds of inflation were planted on Trump's watch with the Quantitative Easing program. It helped to keep the economy afloat during the Covid crisis but now were paying the price. The same can be said for the global supply chain crisis. Could Trump have done anything about it if still in office? Frankly I doubt it. He would have done a good job of blaming it on someone else however. That's his special talent. Does it not matter to you that he tried to overthrow an election and obstruct the peaceful transfer of power? That is the bedrock of our democracy, and Trump reminds us of how fragile it can be. The vast majority of the electorate saw through his bluff, bluster and bullshit in the 2020 election and rightfully voted him out of office. For better or worse Biden was the only choice. For that we can thank the feckless Republican party who stood by their flawed candidate while the ship was burning.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> The Obama fiscal policy rewarded his rich contributors, bankers and
> >>>>>>>> Wall Street but it left the middle class suffering. The more we hear
> >>>>>>>> about who actually got the money the more pissed people are. They are
> >>>>>>>> really just scratching the surface of the massive fraud with a few
> >>>>>>>> small timers who got charged. The big players who raked in millions
> >>>>>>>> and padded their bottom line with it, like airlines are still free to
> >>>>>>>> do it again.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I have a hunch that history will record the Obama/Biden years as being
> >>>>>>> the most corrupt in modern times.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I would put the stick in the dirt when GHWB took office and we have
> >>>>>> suffered from bad leadership since. That is both on the corporate and
> >>>>>> government side. The corporations adopted a 90 day window for their
> >>>>>> decision making, just trying to make good quarterly numbers, not
> >>>>>> really building anything and they were supported by the same mentality
> >>>>>> in Washington. It was all about how Wall Street is doing with no real
> >>>>>> concern with how things are going on Main Street, what we do next year
> >>>>>> or how we will ever service the debt they incurred. The Democrats
> >>>>>> embraced Rubin, Summers, Geithner and Greenspan more than the
> >>>>>> Republicans.
> >>>>>> We can complain about the American oligarchs like Jobs, Bezos and Musk
> >>>>>> but at least they were building things.
> >>>>>> Musk and Bezos are pretty frustrated with the government too.
> >>>>> When I think of corruption I am not thinking bad policies, etc.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I am thinking corruption in the sense of using the power and
> >>>>> influence of an elected office for personal financial gains.
> >>>>> Biden is a perfect example of a smiling, career politician who has his
> >>>>> hand out everywhere. Hunter's laptop will eventually do him in.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I don't think GWB was corrupt in this sense. You can argue his
> >>>>> policies but there's no evidence anywhere of him personally
> >>>>> gaining by them financially, at least not by plan.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This will irk Wayne and Harry but neither did Trump.
> >>>>> --
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ===
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm not irked at all, in fact I agree with you about GWB. I think the jury is still out on Biden but no one is more corrupt than Trump. It's in his genes. GWBs big failing was putting too much blind faith in Cheney and Rumsfeld..
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I think the jury may be closer to a decision on Biden than you may think.
> >>>
> >>> Have you followed and considered any of the Hunter laptop revelations or
> >>> have you chosen to ignore them as most of the liberal press and media
> >>> has?
> >>
> >> ===
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >> I've mostly ignored the Hunter allegations since he's just leveraging his family connections like so many others. Is Joe responsible for the actions of his adult son? If Hunter has broken laws he should be prosecuted like anyone else.
> >
> >If some of the allegations are true (I am not saying they *are*) broken
> >laws may extend beyond Hunter. In fact, it could turn out that Hunter
> >technically broke no laws but if his daddy shared financially in his
> >business activities, especially when VP, this could become a really
> >big legal issue.
> Biden has enough juice at DoJ to have them slow walk this thing until
> he is out of office, then he hopes nobody will care. The media largely
> ignores this anyway. I suppose, if Trump is a precedent, a GOP house
> could still impeach him from his VP office, 10 years later.

<gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 10:08:57 -0000 (UTC), Keyser Soze
> <keysersoze@whitehouse.com> wrote:
>
>> Justan Ohlphart <me@yourservice.com> wrote:
>>> Keyser Söze <KeyserSöze@whitehouse.com> Wrote in message:r
>>>> On 7/4/22 6:44 PM, Bill wrote:> John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:>> On
>>>> Mon, 4 Jul 2022 14:58:04 -0000 (UTC), Keyser Soze>>
>>>> <keysersoze@whitehouse.com> wrote:>>>>>>>> To WayneTrump is the root of
>>>> all evil. He seems obliviius to the>>>> civil unrest, crime, graft,
>>>> corruption, and the ship of state is>>>> rudderless. All the can say is
>>>> we're watching and we're doing all>>>> we can. My question is what are
>>>> they trying to do to our country,>>>> and why? Constitution no good.Lets
>>>> rewrite it. Supreme court no>>>> good. Lets pack it or get rid of it.
>>>> Nobody should suffer jail>>>> time. Go out and buy an electric car NOW.
>>>> It doesn't matter that>>>> we dont have infrostructure to support it.
>>>> Borders dont matter.>>>> Hunter Biden is the smartest person Sleepy Joe
>>>> knows.>>>>>>>> Im going to celebrate independence day anyway. My flags
>>>> are coming>>>> down tomorrow until the next event worth
>>>> celebrating.>>>>>> If you, herring, and bilious bill had any talent, you
>>>> could revive the>>> Nairobi Trio and appear to be more clever than any
>>>> of you are.>>> https://youtu.be/5-tFyBLo71U>>>>>> "That's not a baby
>>>> kicking, Karen dear, it's just a fetus!">>> > I guess a lack of talent
>>>> allows us to be still be married to our first> wife, not ever declaring
>>>> bankruptcy, let alone twice. Talk about talent,> Harry. Yours seems
>>>> to be to live of others work.> You, Herring, and Justin couldn't win,
>>>> place, or show in a race in which there were no other horses. And wasn't
>>>> Herring previously married? Justin carefully keeps all the details of
>>>> his life a big secret, and for good reason. How far can he travel
>>>> wearing that ankle bracelet? And all three of you are boringly
>>>> repetitive. Yawn.+-- * I just want to find 11,780 votes... *
>>>
>>> No ankle bracelet for me bub. I pay my taxes. Just in the past 5
>>> years I've traveled in, not over, 47 states.
>>> I wonder sometimes, why you keep returning to rec.boats. You must
>>> revel in the scorn, bellittlement, mistrust, and general mayhem
>>> we play on you and yours. You are pathetic. We have taken from
>>> you everything you have unjustly bragged about.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> A handful of you right-wing trashers remind me of how much stupidity and
>> ignorance there is in this world.
>
> Stupidity and ignorance seems to drive the political process and the
> view of politicians. Nobody wants to admit "their" politicians are
> corrupt and it seems everyone in the opposition thinks the last or
> current one from the other side is the "worst ever".
> Compared to people like Grant, LBJ, Harding and even Reagan, Trump's
> corruption barely bumps the needle. At least he didn't cause the death
> of millions, topple democratically elected governments and condone the
> smuggling of drugs to advance his ambitions. I think most of our
> presidents have been involved in political corruption, bribery and
> intimidation. That even includes supposed "good" guys like JFK and
> Truman.
>

Grant was a relative of our family, and I don’t think he was corrupt, just
extremely incompetent as POTUS.

waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 2:20:17 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>> On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 10:49:22 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 7/6/2022 10:38 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 6:41:52 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>> On 7/6/2022 1:42 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Tuesday, July 5, 2022 at 7:13:34 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>>>> On 7/4/2022 4:02 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 06:55:57 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 7/3/2022 8:01 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 12:19:49 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 7:00:11 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/2/2022 4:53 PM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 4:16:22 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 07:39:53 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/1/2022 4:58 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 11:56:20 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 2:27:15 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 09:33:30 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From an op-ed article by Mick Mulvaney in USA Today:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's quite likely that Trump attempted to obstruct justice, which may
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turn out to be the most serious, and most provable crime he committed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> according to Mick Mulvaney, Director of the Office of Management and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Budget; White House Chief of Staff.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Per Mulvaney, such claims are the threat Trump should be most worried
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He also described a former White House aide's Tuesday testimony as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "eminently credible."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The former acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney wrote on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wednesday that in his view the real threat to former President Donald
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trump was evidence that might lead to accusations of obstruction of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> justice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote that he had previously defended the former president
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> against claims that he did "anything illegal or criminal" in relation to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Capitol riot. He said he was having difficulty maintaining that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position, however, particularly after Hutchinson's testimony, which he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said he found "eminently credible."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Because after some of the bombshells that got dropped in that hearing,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my guess is that things could get very dark for the former president,"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney also said, though, that Tuesday's hearing revealed one real
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> threat to Trump that didn't hinge on Hutchinson's words or credibility.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "It is the one that jumped out at me," he wrote. "And it is the one that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should most worry the former president."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He referred to the evidence presented by Rep. Liz Cheney of Wyoming
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> toward the end of the hearing consisting of two messages that January 6
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> panel witnesses said they received before giving their depositions. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> messages included allusions to being a "team player" to "stay in the good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> graces in Trump world" as well as a reminder that Trump read transcripts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of interviews.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney said that the implication behind displaying the messages during
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the hearing was "crystal clear."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "The Jan. 6 committee members believe they have evidence that people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> within the Trump operation attempted to intimidate witnesses," Mulvaney
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote. "And that, any way you slice it, is obstruction of justice."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you want to bet, if Trump said he wasn't running in 2024, this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whole witch hunt evaporates. De Santis may be taking that option away
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from him anyway.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witch-hunt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /?wiCH ?h?nt/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nounhistorical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noun: witch-hunt; plural noun: witch-hunts; noun: witchhunt; plural noun:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witchhunts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a) search for and subsequent persecution of a supposed witch.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> b) informal: a campaign directed against a person or group holding
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unorthodox or unpopular views.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I take some exception to your use of "witch-hunt" because of its
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> implication of a search for something that isn't real. In my mind, and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mind of many others, Trump's criminality is very real. The question is how
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> best to prove it, and how best to punish it. I'm not sure it's enough to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just keep him from running in 2024 but that's a good start. I'd like to see
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his cult mystique with the right win sector of the Republican party totally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> annihilated so that we never have to deal with his toxic influence again.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The whole process bothers me. Even you admit, the whole exercise is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> designed to prevent him from running again (two impeachments, one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after he left office and now you are hanging your hat on the 14th
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amendment)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Isn't this supposed to be up to the voters?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why are you folks so afraid of open and free elections?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would much prefer that he simply gets clobbered in the primaries by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> margins too great to protest. De Santis is already chipping away at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his base.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I still believe the risks of trying to charge this guy over bullshit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the social upheaval it might cause is not worth the risk for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> slim chance you can get any kind of conviction by 2024.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The court would still be hearing motions by then.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I mentioned before, Cruz is still in court for a school shooting in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2018 and it was a slam dunk against a kid with few resources to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> present a defense.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trump may be a piece of shit but he is a rich piece of shit who has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> always been surrounded by lawyers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Even Biden the Bozo isn't blaming Trump for much anymore.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's all "Russia, Russia, Russia".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Biden has to be a little careful or someone will point out Russia was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pretty quiet on Trump's watch. They got frisky during Obama's watch
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and started a war on Biden's watch.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Putin had Trump right where he wanted him and didn't want to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> upset the balance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://cdn.forumcomm.com/dims4/default/cc2560c/2147483647/strip/false/crop/3259x2423+0+0/resize/1486x1105!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum-communications-production-web.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fbrightspot%2F5d%2F6e%2F99f75ab4481499aab953bee3ff59%2Fcolor-edit-toon-trump-on-nato-and-russia.jpg
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cute.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It's obvious you have an intense dislike for Trump which is
>>>>>>>>>>>> understandable. Based on your many posts about him, your
>>>>>>>>>>>> dislike goes back a long ways ... back when he was in
>>>>>>>>>>>> private business and well before he ran for and won the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Presidency.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> But, if you can put that intense dislike and bias aside for
>>>>>>>>>>>> a moment, do you really feel the USA is in better positions
>>>>>>>>>>>> and conditions, economically, domestically and globally
>>>>>>>>>>>> today compared to four years ago?.
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The seeds of inflation were planted on Trump's watch with the
>>>>>>>>>>> Quantitative Easing program. It helped to keep the economy
>>>>>>>>>>> afloat during the Covid crisis but now were paying the price.
>>>>>>>>>>> The same can be said for the global supply chain crisis. Could
>>>>>>>>>>> Trump have done anything about it if still in office? Frankly I
>>>>>>>>>>> doubt it. He would have done a good job of blaming it on
>>>>>>>>>>> someone else however. That's his special talent. Does it not
>>>>>>>>>>> matter to you that he tried to overthrow an election and
>>>>>>>>>>> obstruct the peaceful transfer of power? That is the bedrock of
>>>>>>>>>>> our democracy, and Trump reminds us of how fragile it can be.
>>>>>>>>>>> The vast majority of the electorate saw through his bluff,
>>>>>>>>>>> bluster and bullshit in the 2020 election and rightfully voted
>>>>>>>>>>> him out of office. For better or worse Biden was the only
>>>>>>>>>>> choice. For that we can thank the feckless Republican party who
>>>>>>>>>>> stood by their flawed candidate while the ship was burning.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The Obama fiscal policy rewarded his rich contributors, bankers and
>>>>>>>>>> Wall Street but it left the middle class suffering. The more we hear
>>>>>>>>>> about who actually got the money the more pissed people are. They are
>>>>>>>>>> really just scratching the surface of the massive fraud with a few
>>>>>>>>>> small timers who got charged. The big players who raked in millions
>>>>>>>>>> and padded their bottom line with it, like airlines are still free to
>>>>>>>>>> do it again.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have a hunch that history will record the Obama/Biden years as being
>>>>>>>>> the most corrupt in modern times.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would put the stick in the dirt when GHWB took office and we have
>>>>>>>> suffered from bad leadership since. That is both on the corporate and
>>>>>>>> government side. The corporations adopted a 90 day window for their
>>>>>>>> decision making, just trying to make good quarterly numbers, not
>>>>>>>> really building anything and they were supported by the same mentality
>>>>>>>> in Washington. It was all about how Wall Street is doing with no real
>>>>>>>> concern with how things are going on Main Street, what we do next year
>>>>>>>> or how we will ever service the debt they incurred. The Democrats
>>>>>>>> embraced Rubin, Summers, Geithner and Greenspan more than the
>>>>>>>> Republicans.
>>>>>>>> We can complain about the American oligarchs like Jobs, Bezos and Musk
>>>>>>>> but at least they were building things.
>>>>>>>> Musk and Bezos are pretty frustrated with the government too.
>>>>>>> When I think of corruption I am not thinking bad policies, etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am thinking corruption in the sense of using the power and
>>>>>>> influence of an elected office for personal financial gains.
>>>>>>> Biden is a perfect example of a smiling, career politician who has his
>>>>>>> hand out everywhere. Hunter's laptop will eventually do him in.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't think GWB was corrupt in this sense. You can argue his
>>>>>>> policies but there's no evidence anywhere of him personally
>>>>>>> gaining by them financially, at least not by plan.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This will irk Wayne and Harry but neither did Trump.
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not irked at all, in fact I agree with you about GWB. I think
>>>>>> the jury is still out on Biden but no one is more corrupt than
>>>>>> Trump. It's in his genes. GWBs big failing was putting too much
>>>>>> blind faith in Cheney and Rumsfeld..
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the jury may be closer to a decision on Biden than you may think.
>>>>>
>>>>> Have you followed and considered any of the Hunter laptop revelations or
>>>>> have you chosen to ignore them as most of the liberal press and media
>>>>> has?
>>>>
>>>> ===
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I've mostly ignored the Hunter allegations since he's just leveraging
>>>> his family connections like so many others. Is Joe responsible for the
>>>> actions of his adult son? If Hunter has broken laws he should be
>>>> prosecuted like anyone else.
>>>
>>> If some of the allegations are true (I am not saying they *are*) broken
>>> laws may extend beyond Hunter. In fact, it could turn out that Hunter
>>> technically broke no laws but if his daddy shared financially in his
>>> business activities, especially when VP, this could become a really
>>> big legal issue.
>> Biden has enough juice at DoJ to have them slow walk this thing until
>> he is out of office, then he hopes nobody will care. The media largely
>> ignores this anyway. I suppose, if Trump is a precedent, a GOP house
>> could still impeach him from his VP office, 10 years later.
>
> ==
> Even in the unlikely event that Biden the senior did anything illegal as
> VP, the statute of limitations will have long since expired. Let's try
> to remember that this discussion is about Trump, whose misdeeds are
> current and ongoing. No one else in the history of this country has
> illegally tried to stay in power after losing a presidential election.
> The illegality continues as he solicits millions in donations under the
> false pretext that the election was stolen from him.
>

On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 12:51:10 -0700 (PDT),
"waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com" <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 2:20:17 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>> On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 10:49:22 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On 7/6/2022 10:38 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> >> On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 6:41:52 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>> >>> On 7/6/2022 1:42 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> >>>> On Tuesday, July 5, 2022 at 7:13:34 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>> >>>>> On 7/4/2022 4:02 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>> >>>>>> On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 06:55:57 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>
>> >>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On 7/3/2022 8:01 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>> >>>>>>>> On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 12:19:49 -0700 (PDT),
>> >>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 7:00:11 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>> On 7/2/2022 4:53 PM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 4:16:22 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 07:39:53 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/1/2022 4:58 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 11:56:20 -0700 (PDT),
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 2:27:15 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 09:33:30 -0700 (PDT),
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >From an op-ed article by Mick Mulvaney in USA Today:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's quite likely that Trump attempted to obstruct justice, which may turn out to be the most serious, and most provable crime he committed according to Mick Mulvaney, Director of the Office of Management and Budget; White House Chief of Staff.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Per Mulvaney, such claims are the threat Trump should be most worried about.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He also described a former White House aide's Tuesday testimony as "eminently credible."
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The former acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney wrote on Wednesday that in his view the real threat to former President Donald Trump was evidence that might lead to accusations of obstruction of justice.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote that he had previously defended the former president against claims that he did "anything illegal or criminal" in relation to the Capitol riot. He said he was having difficulty maintaining that position, however, particularly after Hutchinson's testimony, which he said he found "eminently credible."
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Because after some of the bombshells that got dropped in that hearing, my guess is that things could get very dark for the former president," Mulvaney wrote.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney also said, though, that Tuesday's hearing revealed one real threat to Trump that didn't hinge on Hutchinson's words or credibility. "It is the one that jumped out at me," he wrote. "And it is the one that should most worry the former president."
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He referred to the evidence presented by Rep. Liz Cheney of Wyoming toward the end of the hearing consisting of two messages that January 6 panel witnesses said they received before giving their depositions. The messages included allusions to being a "team player" to "stay in the good graces in Trump world" as well as a reminder that Trump read transcripts of interviews.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney said that the implication behind displaying the messages during the hearing was "crystal clear."
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "The Jan. 6 committee members believe they have evidence that people within the Trump operation attempted to intimidate witnesses," Mulvaney wrote. "And that, any way you slice it, is obstruction of justice."
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you want to bet, if Trump said he wasn't running in 2024, this
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whole witch hunt evaporates. De Santis may be taking that option away
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from him anyway.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witch-hunt
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /?wiCH ?h?nt/
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nounhistorical
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noun: witch-hunt; plural noun: witch-hunts; noun: witchhunt; plural noun: witchhunts
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a) search for and subsequent persecution of a supposed witch.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> b) informal: a campaign directed against a person or group holding unorthodox or unpopular views.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I take some exception to your use of "witch-hunt" because of its implication of a search for something that isn't real. In my mind, and the mind of many others, Trump's criminality is very real. The question is how best to prove it, and how best to punish it. I'm not sure it's enough to just keep him from running in 2024 but that's a good start. I'd like to see his cult mystique with the right win sector of the Republican party totally annihilated so that we never have to deal with his toxic influence again.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The whole process bothers me. Even you admit, the whole exercise is
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> designed to prevent him from running again (two impeachments, one
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> after he left office and now you are hanging your hat on the 14th
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> amendment)
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Isn't this supposed to be up to the voters?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why are you folks so afraid of open and free elections?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would much prefer that he simply gets clobbered in the primaries by
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> margins too great to protest. De Santis is already chipping away at
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> his base.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I still believe the risks of trying to charge this guy over bullshit
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the social upheaval it might cause is not worth the risk for the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> slim chance you can get any kind of conviction by 2024.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The court would still be hearing motions by then.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I mentioned before, Cruz is still in court for a school shooting in
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2018 and it was a slam dunk against a kid with few resources to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> present a defense.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trump may be a piece of shit but he is a rich piece of shit who has
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> always been surrounded by lawyers.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Even Biden the Bozo isn't blaming Trump for much anymore.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> It's all "Russia, Russia, Russia".
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Biden has to be a little careful or someone will point out Russia was
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> pretty quiet on Trump's watch. They got frisky during Obama's watch
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> and started a war on Biden's watch.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> ===
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Putin had Trump right where he wanted him and didn't want to upset the balance.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> https://cdn.forumcomm.com/dims4/default/cc2560c/2147483647/strip/false/crop/3259x2423+0+0/resize/1486x1105!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum-communications-production-web.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fbrightspot%2F5d%2F6e%2F99f75ab4481499aab953bee3ff59%2Fcolor-edit-toon-trump-on-nato-and-russia.jpg
>> >>>>>>>>>> Cute.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> It's obvious you have an intense dislike for Trump which is
>> >>>>>>>>>> understandable. Based on your many posts about him, your
>> >>>>>>>>>> dislike goes back a long ways ... back when he was in
>> >>>>>>>>>> private business and well before he ran for and won the
>> >>>>>>>>>> Presidency.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> But, if you can put that intense dislike and bias aside for
>> >>>>>>>>>> a moment, do you really feel the USA is in better positions
>> >>>>>>>>>> and conditions, economically, domestically and globally
>> >>>>>>>>>> today compared to four years ago?.
>> >>>>>>>>>> --
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> ===
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> The seeds of inflation were planted on Trump's watch with the Quantitative Easing program. It helped to keep the economy afloat during the Covid crisis but now were paying the price. The same can be said for the global supply chain crisis. Could Trump have done anything about it if still in office? Frankly I doubt it. He would have done a good job of blaming it on someone else however. That's his special talent. Does it not matter to you that he tried to overthrow an election and obstruct the peaceful transfer of power? That is the bedrock of our democracy, and Trump reminds us of how fragile it can be. The vast majority of the electorate saw through his bluff, bluster and bullshit in the 2020 election and rightfully voted him out of office. For better or worse Biden was the only choice. For that we can thank the feckless Republican party who stood by their flawed candidate while the ship was burning.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> The Obama fiscal policy rewarded his rich contributors, bankers and
>> >>>>>>>> Wall Street but it left the middle class suffering. The more we hear
>> >>>>>>>> about who actually got the money the more pissed people are. They are
>> >>>>>>>> really just scratching the surface of the massive fraud with a few
>> >>>>>>>> small timers who got charged. The big players who raked in millions
>> >>>>>>>> and padded their bottom line with it, like airlines are still free to
>> >>>>>>>> do it again.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I have a hunch that history will record the Obama/Biden years as being
>> >>>>>>> the most corrupt in modern times.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I would put the stick in the dirt when GHWB took office and we have
>> >>>>>> suffered from bad leadership since. That is both on the corporate and
>> >>>>>> government side. The corporations adopted a 90 day window for their
>> >>>>>> decision making, just trying to make good quarterly numbers, not
>> >>>>>> really building anything and they were supported by the same mentality
>> >>>>>> in Washington. It was all about how Wall Street is doing with no real
>> >>>>>> concern with how things are going on Main Street, what we do next year
>> >>>>>> or how we will ever service the debt they incurred. The Democrats
>> >>>>>> embraced Rubin, Summers, Geithner and Greenspan more than the
>> >>>>>> Republicans.
>> >>>>>> We can complain about the American oligarchs like Jobs, Bezos and Musk
>> >>>>>> but at least they were building things.
>> >>>>>> Musk and Bezos are pretty frustrated with the government too.
>> >>>>> When I think of corruption I am not thinking bad policies, etc.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I am thinking corruption in the sense of using the power and
>> >>>>> influence of an elected office for personal financial gains.
>> >>>>> Biden is a perfect example of a smiling, career politician who has his
>> >>>>> hand out everywhere. Hunter's laptop will eventually do him in.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I don't think GWB was corrupt in this sense. You can argue his
>> >>>>> policies but there's no evidence anywhere of him personally
>> >>>>> gaining by them financially, at least not by plan.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> This will irk Wayne and Harry but neither did Trump.
>> >>>>> --
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ===
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I'm not irked at all, in fact I agree with you about GWB. I think the jury is still out on Biden but no one is more corrupt than Trump. It's in his genes. GWBs big failing was putting too much blind faith in Cheney and Rumsfeld..
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> I think the jury may be closer to a decision on Biden than you may think.
>> >>>
>> >>> Have you followed and considered any of the Hunter laptop revelations or
>> >>> have you chosen to ignore them as most of the liberal press and media
>> >>> has?
>> >>
>> >> ===
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> I've mostly ignored the Hunter allegations since he's just leveraging his family connections like so many others. Is Joe responsible for the actions of his adult son? If Hunter has broken laws he should be prosecuted like anyone else.
>> >
>> >If some of the allegations are true (I am not saying they *are*) broken
>> >laws may extend beyond Hunter. In fact, it could turn out that Hunter
>> >technically broke no laws but if his daddy shared financially in his
>> >business activities, especially when VP, this could become a really
>> >big legal issue.
>> Biden has enough juice at DoJ to have them slow walk this thing until
>> he is out of office, then he hopes nobody will care. The media largely
>> ignores this anyway. I suppose, if Trump is a precedent, a GOP house
>> could still impeach him from his VP office, 10 years later.
>
>===
>
>Even in the unlikely event that Biden the senior did anything illegal as VP, the statute of limitations will have long since expired.
That does not seem to matter in an impeachment. It is not a criminal
prosecution, it is a political crusade.

On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 22:05:43 -0000 (UTC), Bill
<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:

><gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 10:08:57 -0000 (UTC), Keyser Soze
>> <keysersoze@whitehouse.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Justan Ohlphart <me@yourservice.com> wrote:
>>>> Keyser Söze <KeyserSöze@whitehouse.com> Wrote in message:r
>>>>> On 7/4/22 6:44 PM, Bill wrote:> John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:>> On
>>>>> Mon, 4 Jul 2022 14:58:04 -0000 (UTC), Keyser Soze>>
>>>>> <keysersoze@whitehouse.com> wrote:>>>>>>>> To WayneTrump is the root of
>>>>> all evil. He seems obliviius to the>>>> civil unrest, crime, graft,
>>>>> corruption, and the ship of state is>>>> rudderless. All the can say is
>>>>> we're watching and we're doing all>>>> we can. My question is what are
>>>>> they trying to do to our country,>>>> and why? Constitution no good.Lets
>>>>> rewrite it. Supreme court no>>>> good. Lets pack it or get rid of it.
>>>>> Nobody should suffer jail>>>> time. Go out and buy an electric car NOW.
>>>>> It doesn't matter that>>>> we dont have infrostructure to support it.
>>>>> Borders dont matter.>>>> Hunter Biden is the smartest person Sleepy Joe
>>>>> knows.>>>>>>>> Im going to celebrate independence day anyway. My flags
>>>>> are coming>>>> down tomorrow until the next event worth
>>>>> celebrating.>>>>>> If you, herring, and bilious bill had any talent, you
>>>>> could revive the>>> Nairobi Trio and appear to be more clever than any
>>>>> of you are.>>> https://youtu.be/5-tFyBLo71U>>>>>> "That's not a baby
>>>>> kicking, Karen dear, it's just a fetus!">>> > I guess a lack of talent
>>>>> allows us to be still be married to our first> wife, not ever declaring
>>>>> bankruptcy, let alone twice. Talk about talent,> Harry. Yours seems
>>>>> to be to live of others work.> You, Herring, and Justin couldn't win,
>>>>> place, or show in a race in which there were no other horses. And wasn't
>>>>> Herring previously married? Justin carefully keeps all the details of
>>>>> his life a big secret, and for good reason. How far can he travel
>>>>> wearing that ankle bracelet? And all three of you are boringly
>>>>> repetitive. Yawn.+-- * I just want to find 11,780 votes... *
>>>>
>>>> No ankle bracelet for me bub. I pay my taxes. Just in the past 5
>>>> years I've traveled in, not over, 47 states.
>>>> I wonder sometimes, why you keep returning to rec.boats. You must
>>>> revel in the scorn, bellittlement, mistrust, and general mayhem
>>>> we play on you and yours. You are pathetic. We have taken from
>>>> you everything you have unjustly bragged about.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> A handful of you right-wing trashers remind me of how much stupidity and
>>> ignorance there is in this world.
>>
>> Stupidity and ignorance seems to drive the political process and the
>> view of politicians. Nobody wants to admit "their" politicians are
>> corrupt and it seems everyone in the opposition thinks the last or
>> current one from the other side is the "worst ever".
>> Compared to people like Grant, LBJ, Harding and even Reagan, Trump's
>> corruption barely bumps the needle. At least he didn't cause the death
>> of millions, topple democratically elected governments and condone the
>> smuggling of drugs to advance his ambitions. I think most of our
>> presidents have been involved in political corruption, bribery and
>> intimidation. That even includes supposed "good" guys like JFK and
>> Truman.
>>
>
>Grant was a relative of our family, and I don’t think he was corrupt, just
>extremely incompetent as POTUS.

As I said "Nobody wants to admit "their" politicians are
corrupt".

Grant was accused of illegally running confederate cotton up the
Mississippi during the war and his administration was the house
bribery built but I guess that is not corruption. ;-)

On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 22:05:44 -0000 (UTC), Bill
<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:

>waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 2:20:17 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>> On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 10:49:22 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 7/6/2022 10:38 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 6:41:52 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>>> On 7/6/2022 1:42 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tuesday, July 5, 2022 at 7:13:34 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 7/4/2022 4:02 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 06:55:57 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 7/3/2022 8:01 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 12:19:49 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 7:00:11 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/2/2022 4:53 PM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 4:16:22 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 07:39:53 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/1/2022 4:58 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 11:56:20 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 2:27:15 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 09:33:30 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From an op-ed article by Mick Mulvaney in USA Today:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's quite likely that Trump attempted to obstruct justice, which may
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turn out to be the most serious, and most provable crime he committed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> according to Mick Mulvaney, Director of the Office of Management and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Budget; White House Chief of Staff.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Per Mulvaney, such claims are the threat Trump should be most worried
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He also described a former White House aide's Tuesday testimony as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "eminently credible."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The former acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney wrote on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wednesday that in his view the real threat to former President Donald
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trump was evidence that might lead to accusations of obstruction of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> justice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote that he had previously defended the former president
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> against claims that he did "anything illegal or criminal" in relation to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Capitol riot. He said he was having difficulty maintaining that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position, however, particularly after Hutchinson's testimony, which he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said he found "eminently credible."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Because after some of the bombshells that got dropped in that hearing,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my guess is that things could get very dark for the former president,"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney also said, though, that Tuesday's hearing revealed one real
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> threat to Trump that didn't hinge on Hutchinson's words or credibility.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "It is the one that jumped out at me," he wrote. "And it is the one that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should most worry the former president."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He referred to the evidence presented by Rep. Liz Cheney of Wyoming
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> toward the end of the hearing consisting of two messages that January 6
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> panel witnesses said they received before giving their depositions. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> messages included allusions to being a "team player" to "stay in the good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> graces in Trump world" as well as a reminder that Trump read transcripts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of interviews.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney said that the implication behind displaying the messages during
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the hearing was "crystal clear."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "The Jan. 6 committee members believe they have evidence that people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> within the Trump operation attempted to intimidate witnesses," Mulvaney
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote. "And that, any way you slice it, is obstruction of justice."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you want to bet, if Trump said he wasn't running in 2024, this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whole witch hunt evaporates. De Santis may be taking that option away
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from him anyway.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witch-hunt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /?wiCH ?h?nt/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nounhistorical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noun: witch-hunt; plural noun: witch-hunts; noun: witchhunt; plural noun:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witchhunts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a) search for and subsequent persecution of a supposed witch.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> b) informal: a campaign directed against a person or group holding
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unorthodox or unpopular views.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I take some exception to your use of "witch-hunt" because of its
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> implication of a search for something that isn't real. In my mind, and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mind of many others, Trump's criminality is very real. The question is how
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> best to prove it, and how best to punish it. I'm not sure it's enough to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just keep him from running in 2024 but that's a good start. I'd like to see
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his cult mystique with the right win sector of the Republican party totally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> annihilated so that we never have to deal with his toxic influence again.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The whole process bothers me. Even you admit, the whole exercise is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> designed to prevent him from running again (two impeachments, one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after he left office and now you are hanging your hat on the 14th
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amendment)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Isn't this supposed to be up to the voters?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why are you folks so afraid of open and free elections?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would much prefer that he simply gets clobbered in the primaries by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> margins too great to protest. De Santis is already chipping away at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his base.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I still believe the risks of trying to charge this guy over bullshit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the social upheaval it might cause is not worth the risk for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> slim chance you can get any kind of conviction by 2024.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The court would still be hearing motions by then.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I mentioned before, Cruz is still in court for a school shooting in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2018 and it was a slam dunk against a kid with few resources to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> present a defense.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trump may be a piece of shit but he is a rich piece of shit who has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> always been surrounded by lawyers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Even Biden the Bozo isn't blaming Trump for much anymore.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's all "Russia, Russia, Russia".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Biden has to be a little careful or someone will point out Russia was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pretty quiet on Trump's watch. They got frisky during Obama's watch
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and started a war on Biden's watch.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Putin had Trump right where he wanted him and didn't want to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> upset the balance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://cdn.forumcomm.com/dims4/default/cc2560c/2147483647/strip/false/crop/3259x2423+0+0/resize/1486x1105!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum-communications-production-web.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fbrightspot%2F5d%2F6e%2F99f75ab4481499aab953bee3ff59%2Fcolor-edit-toon-trump-on-nato-and-russia.jpg
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cute.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's obvious you have an intense dislike for Trump which is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> understandable. Based on your many posts about him, your
>>>>>>>>>>>>> dislike goes back a long ways ... back when he was in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> private business and well before he ran for and won the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Presidency.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, if you can put that intense dislike and bias aside for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a moment, do you really feel the USA is in better positions
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and conditions, economically, domestically and globally
>>>>>>>>>>>>> today compared to four years ago?.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The seeds of inflation were planted on Trump's watch with the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Quantitative Easing program. It helped to keep the economy
>>>>>>>>>>>> afloat during the Covid crisis but now were paying the price.
>>>>>>>>>>>> The same can be said for the global supply chain crisis. Could
>>>>>>>>>>>> Trump have done anything about it if still in office? Frankly I
>>>>>>>>>>>> doubt it. He would have done a good job of blaming it on
>>>>>>>>>>>> someone else however. That's his special talent. Does it not
>>>>>>>>>>>> matter to you that he tried to overthrow an election and
>>>>>>>>>>>> obstruct the peaceful transfer of power? That is the bedrock of
>>>>>>>>>>>> our democracy, and Trump reminds us of how fragile it can be.
>>>>>>>>>>>> The vast majority of the electorate saw through his bluff,
>>>>>>>>>>>> bluster and bullshit in the 2020 election and rightfully voted
>>>>>>>>>>>> him out of office. For better or worse Biden was the only
>>>>>>>>>>>> choice. For that we can thank the feckless Republican party who
>>>>>>>>>>>> stood by their flawed candidate while the ship was burning.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The Obama fiscal policy rewarded his rich contributors, bankers and
>>>>>>>>>>> Wall Street but it left the middle class suffering. The more we hear
>>>>>>>>>>> about who actually got the money the more pissed people are. They are
>>>>>>>>>>> really just scratching the surface of the massive fraud with a few
>>>>>>>>>>> small timers who got charged. The big players who raked in millions
>>>>>>>>>>> and padded their bottom line with it, like airlines are still free to
>>>>>>>>>>> do it again.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I have a hunch that history will record the Obama/Biden years as being
>>>>>>>>>> the most corrupt in modern times.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I would put the stick in the dirt when GHWB took office and we have
>>>>>>>>> suffered from bad leadership since. That is both on the corporate and
>>>>>>>>> government side. The corporations adopted a 90 day window for their
>>>>>>>>> decision making, just trying to make good quarterly numbers, not
>>>>>>>>> really building anything and they were supported by the same mentality
>>>>>>>>> in Washington. It was all about how Wall Street is doing with no real
>>>>>>>>> concern with how things are going on Main Street, what we do next year
>>>>>>>>> or how we will ever service the debt they incurred. The Democrats
>>>>>>>>> embraced Rubin, Summers, Geithner and Greenspan more than the
>>>>>>>>> Republicans.
>>>>>>>>> We can complain about the American oligarchs like Jobs, Bezos and Musk
>>>>>>>>> but at least they were building things.
>>>>>>>>> Musk and Bezos are pretty frustrated with the government too.
>>>>>>>> When I think of corruption I am not thinking bad policies, etc.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am thinking corruption in the sense of using the power and
>>>>>>>> influence of an elected office for personal financial gains.
>>>>>>>> Biden is a perfect example of a smiling, career politician who has his
>>>>>>>> hand out everywhere. Hunter's laptop will eventually do him in.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't think GWB was corrupt in this sense. You can argue his
>>>>>>>> policies but there's no evidence anywhere of him personally
>>>>>>>> gaining by them financially, at least not by plan.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This will irk Wayne and Harry but neither did Trump.
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm not irked at all, in fact I agree with you about GWB. I think
>>>>>>> the jury is still out on Biden but no one is more corrupt than
>>>>>>> Trump. It's in his genes. GWBs big failing was putting too much
>>>>>>> blind faith in Cheney and Rumsfeld..
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think the jury may be closer to a decision on Biden than you may think.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have you followed and considered any of the Hunter laptop revelations or
>>>>>> have you chosen to ignore them as most of the liberal press and media
>>>>>> has?
>>>>>
>>>>> ===
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I've mostly ignored the Hunter allegations since he's just leveraging
>>>>> his family connections like so many others. Is Joe responsible for the
>>>>> actions of his adult son? If Hunter has broken laws he should be
>>>>> prosecuted like anyone else.
>>>>
>>>> If some of the allegations are true (I am not saying they *are*) broken
>>>> laws may extend beyond Hunter. In fact, it could turn out that Hunter
>>>> technically broke no laws but if his daddy shared financially in his
>>>> business activities, especially when VP, this could become a really
>>>> big legal issue.
>>> Biden has enough juice at DoJ to have them slow walk this thing until
>>> he is out of office, then he hopes nobody will care. The media largely
>>> ignores this anyway. I suppose, if Trump is a precedent, a GOP house
>>> could still impeach him from his VP office, 10 years later.
>>
>> ==
>> Even in the unlikely event that Biden the senior did anything illegal as
>> VP, the statute of limitations will have long since expired. Let's try
>> to remember that this discussion is about Trump, whose misdeeds are
>> current and ongoing. No one else in the history of this country has
>> illegally tried to stay in power after losing a presidential election.
>> The illegality continues as he solicits millions in donations under the
>> false pretext that the election was stolen from him.
>>
>
>And Hillary getting at least 7 electors to change their votes is not
>criminal?

<gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 22:05:43 -0000 (UTC), Bill
> <califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> <gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 10:08:57 -0000 (UTC), Keyser Soze
>>> <keysersoze@whitehouse.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Justan Ohlphart <me@yourservice.com> wrote:
>>>>> Keyser Söze <KeyserSöze@whitehouse.com> Wrote in message:r
>>>>>> On 7/4/22 6:44 PM, Bill wrote:> John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:>> On
>>>>>> Mon, 4 Jul 2022 14:58:04 -0000 (UTC), Keyser Soze>>
>>>>>> <keysersoze@whitehouse.com> wrote:>>>>>>>> To WayneTrump is the root of
>>>>>> all evil. He seems obliviius to the>>>> civil unrest, crime, graft,
>>>>>> corruption, and the ship of state is>>>> rudderless. All the can say is
>>>>>> we're watching and we're doing all>>>> we can. My question is what are
>>>>>> they trying to do to our country,>>>> and why? Constitution no good.Lets
>>>>>> rewrite it. Supreme court no>>>> good. Lets pack it or get rid of it.
>>>>>> Nobody should suffer jail>>>> time. Go out and buy an electric car NOW.
>>>>>> It doesn't matter that>>>> we dont have infrostructure to support it.
>>>>>> Borders dont matter.>>>> Hunter Biden is the smartest person Sleepy Joe
>>>>>> knows.>>>>>>>> Im going to celebrate independence day anyway. My flags
>>>>>> are coming>>>> down tomorrow until the next event worth
>>>>>> celebrating.>>>>>> If you, herring, and bilious bill had any talent, you
>>>>>> could revive the>>> Nairobi Trio and appear to be more clever than any
>>>>>> of you are.>>> https://youtu.be/5-tFyBLo71U>>>>>> "That's not a baby
>>>>>> kicking, Karen dear, it's just a fetus!">>> > I guess a lack of talent
>>>>>> allows us to be still be married to our first> wife, not ever declaring
>>>>>> bankruptcy, let alone twice. Talk about talent,> Harry. Yours seems
>>>>>> to be to live of others work.> You, Herring, and Justin couldn't win,
>>>>>> place, or show in a race in which there were no other horses. And wasn't
>>>>>> Herring previously married? Justin carefully keeps all the details of
>>>>>> his life a big secret, and for good reason. How far can he travel
>>>>>> wearing that ankle bracelet? And all three of you are boringly
>>>>>> repetitive. Yawn.+-- * I just want to find 11,780 votes... *
>>>>>
>>>>> No ankle bracelet for me bub. I pay my taxes. Just in the past 5
>>>>> years I've traveled in, not over, 47 states.
>>>>> I wonder sometimes, why you keep returning to rec.boats. You must
>>>>> revel in the scorn, bellittlement, mistrust, and general mayhem
>>>>> we play on you and yours. You are pathetic. We have taken from
>>>>> you everything you have unjustly bragged about.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A handful of you right-wing trashers remind me of how much stupidity and
>>>> ignorance there is in this world.
>>>
>>> Stupidity and ignorance seems to drive the political process and the
>>> view of politicians. Nobody wants to admit "their" politicians are
>>> corrupt and it seems everyone in the opposition thinks the last or
>>> current one from the other side is the "worst ever".
>>> Compared to people like Grant, LBJ, Harding and even Reagan, Trump's
>>> corruption barely bumps the needle. At least he didn't cause the death
>>> of millions, topple democratically elected governments and condone the
>>> smuggling of drugs to advance his ambitions. I think most of our
>>> presidents have been involved in political corruption, bribery and
>>> intimidation. That even includes supposed "good" guys like JFK and
>>> Truman.
>>>
>>
>> Grant was a relative of our family, and I don’t think he was corrupt, just
>> extremely incompetent as POTUS.
>
> As I said "Nobody wants to admit "their" politicians are
> corrupt".
>
> Grant was accused of illegally running confederate cotton up the
> Mississippi during the war and his administration was the house
> bribery built but I guess that is not corruption. ;-)
>

I don’t think he knew what was going on around him as President.

On Thu, 7 Jul 2022 00:55:13 -0000 (UTC), Bill
<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:

><gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 22:05:43 -0000 (UTC), Bill
>> <califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> <gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 10:08:57 -0000 (UTC), Keyser Soze
>>>> <keysersoze@whitehouse.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Justan Ohlphart <me@yourservice.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Keyser Söze <KeyserSöze@whitehouse.com> Wrote in message:r
>>>>>>> On 7/4/22 6:44 PM, Bill wrote:> John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:>> On
>>>>>>> Mon, 4 Jul 2022 14:58:04 -0000 (UTC), Keyser Soze>>
>>>>>>> <keysersoze@whitehouse.com> wrote:>>>>>>>> To WayneTrump is the root of
>>>>>>> all evil. He seems obliviius to the>>>> civil unrest, crime, graft,
>>>>>>> corruption, and the ship of state is>>>> rudderless. All the can say is
>>>>>>> we're watching and we're doing all>>>> we can. My question is what are
>>>>>>> they trying to do to our country,>>>> and why? Constitution no good.Lets
>>>>>>> rewrite it. Supreme court no>>>> good. Lets pack it or get rid of it.
>>>>>>> Nobody should suffer jail>>>> time. Go out and buy an electric car NOW.
>>>>>>> It doesn't matter that>>>> we dont have infrostructure to support it.
>>>>>>> Borders dont matter.>>>> Hunter Biden is the smartest person Sleepy Joe
>>>>>>> knows.>>>>>>>> Im going to celebrate independence day anyway. My flags
>>>>>>> are coming>>>> down tomorrow until the next event worth
>>>>>>> celebrating.>>>>>> If you, herring, and bilious bill had any talent, you
>>>>>>> could revive the>>> Nairobi Trio and appear to be more clever than any
>>>>>>> of you are.>>> https://youtu.be/5-tFyBLo71U>>>>>> "That's not a baby
>>>>>>> kicking, Karen dear, it's just a fetus!">>> > I guess a lack of talent
>>>>>>> allows us to be still be married to our first> wife, not ever declaring
>>>>>>> bankruptcy, let alone twice. Talk about talent,> Harry. Yours seems
>>>>>>> to be to live of others work.> You, Herring, and Justin couldn't win,
>>>>>>> place, or show in a race in which there were no other horses. And wasn't
>>>>>>> Herring previously married? Justin carefully keeps all the details of
>>>>>>> his life a big secret, and for good reason. How far can he travel
>>>>>>> wearing that ankle bracelet? And all three of you are boringly
>>>>>>> repetitive. Yawn.+-- * I just want to find 11,780 votes... *
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No ankle bracelet for me bub. I pay my taxes. Just in the past 5
>>>>>> years I've traveled in, not over, 47 states.
>>>>>> I wonder sometimes, why you keep returning to rec.boats. You must
>>>>>> revel in the scorn, bellittlement, mistrust, and general mayhem
>>>>>> we play on you and yours. You are pathetic. We have taken from
>>>>>> you everything you have unjustly bragged about.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> A handful of you right-wing trashers remind me of how much stupidity and
>>>>> ignorance there is in this world.
>>>>
>>>> Stupidity and ignorance seems to drive the political process and the
>>>> view of politicians. Nobody wants to admit "their" politicians are
>>>> corrupt and it seems everyone in the opposition thinks the last or
>>>> current one from the other side is the "worst ever".
>>>> Compared to people like Grant, LBJ, Harding and even Reagan, Trump's
>>>> corruption barely bumps the needle. At least he didn't cause the death
>>>> of millions, topple democratically elected governments and condone the
>>>> smuggling of drugs to advance his ambitions. I think most of our
>>>> presidents have been involved in political corruption, bribery and
>>>> intimidation. That even includes supposed "good" guys like JFK and
>>>> Truman.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Grant was a relative of our family, and I don’t think he was corrupt, just
>>> extremely incompetent as POTUS.
>>
>> As I said "Nobody wants to admit "their" politicians are
>> corrupt".
>>
>> Grant was accused of illegally running confederate cotton up the
>> Mississippi during the war and his administration was the house
>> bribery built but I guess that is not corruption. ;-)
>>
>
>I don’t think he knew what was going on around him as President.

Isn't that the Biden defense? ;-)