On 7/6/2022 3:51 PM, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 2:20:17 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>> On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 10:49:22 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 7/6/2022 10:38 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 6:41:52 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>> On 7/6/2022 1:42 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Tuesday, July 5, 2022 at 7:13:34 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>>>> On 7/4/2022 4:02 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 06:55:57 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 7/3/2022 8:01 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 12:19:49 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 7:00:11 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/2/2022 4:53 PM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 4:16:22 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 07:39:53 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/1/2022 4:58 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 11:56:20 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 2:27:15 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 09:33:30 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >From an op-ed article by Mick Mulvaney in USA Today:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's quite likely that Trump attempted to obstruct justice, which may turn out to be the most serious, and most provable crime he committed according to Mick Mulvaney, Director of the Office of Management and Budget; White House Chief of Staff.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Per Mulvaney, such claims are the threat Trump should be most worried about.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He also described a former White House aide's Tuesday testimony as "eminently credible."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The former acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney wrote on Wednesday that in his view the real threat to former President Donald Trump was evidence that might lead to accusations of obstruction of justice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote that he had previously defended the former president against claims that he did "anything illegal or criminal" in relation to the Capitol riot. He said he was having difficulty maintaining that position, however, particularly after Hutchinson's testimony, which he said he found "eminently credible."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Because after some of the bombshells that got dropped in that hearing, my guess is that things could get very dark for the former president," Mulvaney wrote.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney also said, though, that Tuesday's hearing revealed one real threat to Trump that didn't hinge on Hutchinson's words or credibility. "It is the one that jumped out at me," he wrote. "And it is the one that should most worry the former president."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He referred to the evidence presented by Rep. Liz Cheney of Wyoming toward the end of the hearing consisting of two messages that January 6 panel witnesses said they received before giving their depositions. The messages included allusions to being a "team player" to "stay in the good graces in Trump world" as well as a reminder that Trump read transcripts of interviews.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney said that the implication behind displaying the messages during the hearing was "crystal clear."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "The Jan. 6 committee members believe they have evidence that people within the Trump operation attempted to intimidate witnesses," Mulvaney wrote. "And that, any way you slice it, is obstruction of justice."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you want to bet, if Trump said he wasn't running in 2024, this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whole witch hunt evaporates. De Santis may be taking that option away
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from him anyway.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witch-hunt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /?wiCH ?h?nt/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nounhistorical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noun: witch-hunt; plural noun: witch-hunts; noun: witchhunt; plural noun: witchhunts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a) search for and subsequent persecution of a supposed witch.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> b) informal: a campaign directed against a person or group holding unorthodox or unpopular views.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I take some exception to your use of "witch-hunt" because of its implication of a search for something that isn't real. In my mind, and the mind of many others, Trump's criminality is very real. The question is how best to prove it, and how best to punish it. I'm not sure it's enough to just keep him from running in 2024 but that's a good start. I'd like to see his cult mystique with the right win sector of the Republican party totally annihilated so that we never have to deal with his toxic influence again.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The whole process bothers me. Even you admit, the whole exercise is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> designed to prevent him from running again (two impeachments, one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after he left office and now you are hanging your hat on the 14th
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amendment)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Isn't this supposed to be up to the voters?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why are you folks so afraid of open and free elections?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would much prefer that he simply gets clobbered in the primaries by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> margins too great to protest. De Santis is already chipping away at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his base.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I still believe the risks of trying to charge this guy over bullshit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the social upheaval it might cause is not worth the risk for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> slim chance you can get any kind of conviction by 2024.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The court would still be hearing motions by then.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I mentioned before, Cruz is still in court for a school shooting in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2018 and it was a slam dunk against a kid with few resources to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> present a defense.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trump may be a piece of shit but he is a rich piece of shit who has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> always been surrounded by lawyers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Even Biden the Bozo isn't blaming Trump for much anymore.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's all "Russia, Russia, Russia".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Biden has to be a little careful or someone will point out Russia was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pretty quiet on Trump's watch. They got frisky during Obama's watch
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and started a war on Biden's watch.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Putin had Trump right where he wanted him and didn't want to upset the balance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://cdn.forumcomm.com/dims4/default/cc2560c/2147483647/strip/false/crop/3259x2423+0+0/resize/1486x1105!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum-communications-production-web.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fbrightspot%2F5d%2F6e%2F99f75ab4481499aab953bee3ff59%2Fcolor-edit-toon-trump-on-nato-and-russia.jpg
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cute.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It's obvious you have an intense dislike for Trump which is
>>>>>>>>>>>> understandable. Based on your many posts about him, your
>>>>>>>>>>>> dislike goes back a long ways ... back when he was in
>>>>>>>>>>>> private business and well before he ran for and won the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Presidency.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> But, if you can put that intense dislike and bias aside for
>>>>>>>>>>>> a moment, do you really feel the USA is in better positions
>>>>>>>>>>>> and conditions, economically, domestically and globally
>>>>>>>>>>>> today compared to four years ago?.
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The seeds of inflation were planted on Trump's watch with the Quantitative Easing program. It helped to keep the economy afloat during the Covid crisis but now were paying the price. The same can be said for the global supply chain crisis. Could Trump have done anything about it if still in office? Frankly I doubt it. He would have done a good job of blaming it on someone else however. That's his special talent. Does it not matter to you that he tried to overthrow an election and obstruct the peaceful transfer of power? That is the bedrock of our democracy, and Trump reminds us of how fragile it can be. The vast majority of the electorate saw through his bluff, bluster and bullshit in the 2020 election and rightfully voted him out of office. For better or worse Biden was the only choice. For that we can thank the feckless Republican party who stood by their flawed candidate while the ship was burning.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The Obama fiscal policy rewarded his rich contributors, bankers and
>>>>>>>>>> Wall Street but it left the middle class suffering. The more we hear
>>>>>>>>>> about who actually got the money the more pissed people are. They are
>>>>>>>>>> really just scratching the surface of the massive fraud with a few
>>>>>>>>>> small timers who got charged. The big players who raked in millions
>>>>>>>>>> and padded their bottom line with it, like airlines are still free to
>>>>>>>>>> do it again.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have a hunch that history will record the Obama/Biden years as being
>>>>>>>>> the most corrupt in modern times.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would put the stick in the dirt when GHWB took office and we have
>>>>>>>> suffered from bad leadership since. That is both on the corporate and
>>>>>>>> government side. The corporations adopted a 90 day window for their
>>>>>>>> decision making, just trying to make good quarterly numbers, not
>>>>>>>> really building anything and they were supported by the same mentality
>>>>>>>> in Washington. It was all about how Wall Street is doing with no real
>>>>>>>> concern with how things are going on Main Street, what we do next year
>>>>>>>> or how we will ever service the debt they incurred. The Democrats
>>>>>>>> embraced Rubin, Summers, Geithner and Greenspan more than the
>>>>>>>> Republicans.
>>>>>>>> We can complain about the American oligarchs like Jobs, Bezos and Musk
>>>>>>>> but at least they were building things.
>>>>>>>> Musk and Bezos are pretty frustrated with the government too.
>>>>>>> When I think of corruption I am not thinking bad policies, etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am thinking corruption in the sense of using the power and
>>>>>>> influence of an elected office for personal financial gains.
>>>>>>> Biden is a perfect example of a smiling, career politician who has his
>>>>>>> hand out everywhere. Hunter's laptop will eventually do him in.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't think GWB was corrupt in this sense. You can argue his
>>>>>>> policies but there's no evidence anywhere of him personally
>>>>>>> gaining by them financially, at least not by plan.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This will irk Wayne and Harry but neither did Trump.
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not irked at all, in fact I agree with you about GWB. I think the jury is still out on Biden but no one is more corrupt than Trump. It's in his genes. GWBs big failing was putting too much blind faith in Cheney and Rumsfeld..
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the jury may be closer to a decision on Biden than you may think.
>>>>>
>>>>> Have you followed and considered any of the Hunter laptop revelations or
>>>>> have you chosen to ignore them as most of the liberal press and media
>>>>> has?
>>>>
>>>> ===
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I've mostly ignored the Hunter allegations since he's just leveraging his family connections like so many others. Is Joe responsible for the actions of his adult son? If Hunter has broken laws he should be prosecuted like anyone else.
>>>
>>> If some of the allegations are true (I am not saying they *are*) broken
>>> laws may extend beyond Hunter. In fact, it could turn out that Hunter
>>> technically broke no laws but if his daddy shared financially in his
>>> business activities, especially when VP, this could become a really
>>> big legal issue.
>> Biden has enough juice at DoJ to have them slow walk this thing until
>> he is out of office, then he hopes nobody will care. The media largely
>> ignores this anyway. I suppose, if Trump is a precedent, a GOP house
>> could still impeach him from his VP office, 10 years later.
>
> ===
>
> Even in the unlikely event that Biden the senior did anything illegal as VP, the statute of limitations will have long since expired. Let's try to remember that this discussion is about Trump, whose misdeeds are current and ongoing. No one else in the history of this country has illegally tried to stay in power after losing a presidential election. The illegality continues as he solicits millions in donations under the false pretext that the election was stolen from him.

On 7/7/22 6:34 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
> On 7/6/2022 3:51 PM, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote:
>> On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 2:20:17 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>> On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 10:49:22 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 7/6/2022 10:38 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 6:41:52 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>>> On 7/6/2022 1:42 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tuesday, July 5, 2022 at 7:13:34 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 7/4/2022 4:02 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 06:55:57 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
>>>>>>>>> <not...@noland.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 7/3/2022 8:01 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 12:19:49 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 7:00:11 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/2/2022 4:53 PM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 4:16:22 PM UTC-4,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 07:39:53 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <not...@noland.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/1/2022 4:58 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 11:56:20 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 2:27:15 PM UTC-4,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 09:33:30 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >From an op-ed article by Mick Mulvaney in USA Today:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's quite likely that Trump attempted to obstruct
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> justice, which may turn out to be the most serious,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and most provable crime he committed according to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mick Mulvaney, Director of the Office of Management
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and Budget; White House Chief of Staff.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Per Mulvaney, such claims are the threat Trump
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should be most worried about.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He also described a former White House aide's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tuesday testimony as "eminently credible."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The former acting White House chief of staff Mick
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote on Wednesday that in his view the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> real threat to former President Donald Trump was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence that might lead to accusations of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obstruction of justice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote that he had previously defended the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> former president against claims that he did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "anything illegal or criminal" in relation to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Capitol riot. He said he was having difficulty
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintaining that position, however, particularly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after Hutchinson's testimony, which he said he found
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "eminently credible."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Because after some of the bombshells that got
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dropped in that hearing, my guess is that things
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could get very dark for the former president,"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney also said, though, that Tuesday's hearing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> revealed one real threat to Trump that didn't hinge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on Hutchinson's words or credibility. "It is the one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that jumped out at me," he wrote. "And it is the one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that should most worry the former president."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He referred to the evidence presented by Rep. Liz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheney of Wyoming toward the end of the hearing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consisting of two messages that January 6 panel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witnesses said they received before giving their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> depositions. The messages included allusions to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being a "team player" to "stay in the good graces in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trump world" as well as a reminder that Trump read
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transcripts of interviews.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney said that the implication behind displaying
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the messages during the hearing was "crystal clear."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "The Jan. 6 committee members believe they have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence that people within the Trump operation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attempted to intimidate witnesses," Mulvaney wrote.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "And that, any way you slice it, is obstruction of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> justice."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you want to bet, if Trump said he wasn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> running in 2024, this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whole witch hunt evaporates. De Santis may be taking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that option away
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from him anyway.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witch-hunt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /?wiCH ?h?nt/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nounhistorical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noun: witch-hunt; plural noun: witch-hunts; noun:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witchhunt; plural noun: witchhunts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a) search for and subsequent persecution of a supposed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witch.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> b) informal: a campaign directed against a person or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> group holding unorthodox or unpopular views.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I take some exception to your use of "witch-hunt"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because of its implication of a search for something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that isn't real. In my mind, and the mind of many
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others, Trump's criminality is very real. The question
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is how best to prove it, and how best to punish it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure it's enough to just keep him from running
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in 2024 but that's a good start. I'd like to see his
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cult mystique with the right win sector of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Republican party totally annihilated so that we never
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to deal with his toxic influence again.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The whole process bothers me. Even you admit, the whole
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exercise is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> designed to prevent him from running again (two
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impeachments, one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after he left office and now you are hanging your hat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the 14th
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amendment)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Isn't this supposed to be up to the voters?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why are you folks so afraid of open and free elections?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would much prefer that he simply gets clobbered in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the primaries by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> margins too great to protest. De Santis is already
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chipping away at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his base.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I still believe the risks of trying to charge this guy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over bullshit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the social upheaval it might cause is not worth the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> risk for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> slim chance you can get any kind of conviction by 2024.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The court would still be hearing motions by then.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I mentioned before, Cruz is still in court for a school
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shooting in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2018 and it was a slam dunk against a kid with few
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> resources to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> present a defense.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trump may be a piece of shit but he is a rich piece of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shit who has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> always been surrounded by lawyers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Even Biden the Bozo isn't blaming Trump for much anymore.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's all "Russia, Russia, Russia".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Biden has to be a little careful or someone will point
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out Russia was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pretty quiet on Trump's watch. They got frisky during
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obama's watch
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and started a war on Biden's watch.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Putin had Trump right where he wanted him and didn't want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to upset the balance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://cdn.forumcomm.com/dims4/default/cc2560c/2147483647/strip/false/crop/3259x2423+0+0/resize/1486x1105!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum-communications-production-web.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fbrightspot%2F5d%2F6e%2F99f75ab4481499aab953bee3ff59%2Fcolor-edit-toon-trump-on-nato-and-russia.jpg
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cute.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's obvious you have an intense dislike for Trump which is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> understandable. Based on your many posts about him, your
>>>>>>>>>>>>> dislike goes back a long ways ... back when he was in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> private business and well before he ran for and won the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Presidency.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, if you can put that intense dislike and bias aside for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a moment, do you really feel the USA is in better positions
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and conditions, economically, domestically and globally
>>>>>>>>>>>>> today compared to four years ago?.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The seeds of inflation were planted on Trump's watch with
>>>>>>>>>>>> the Quantitative Easing program. It helped to keep the
>>>>>>>>>>>> economy afloat during the Covid crisis but now were paying
>>>>>>>>>>>> the price. The same can be said for the global supply chain
>>>>>>>>>>>> crisis. Could Trump have done anything about it if still in
>>>>>>>>>>>> office? Frankly I doubt it. He would have done a good job of
>>>>>>>>>>>> blaming it on someone else however. That's his special
>>>>>>>>>>>> talent. Does it not matter to you that he tried to overthrow
>>>>>>>>>>>> an election and obstruct the peaceful transfer of power?
>>>>>>>>>>>> That is the bedrock of our democracy, and Trump reminds us
>>>>>>>>>>>> of how fragile it can be. The vast majority of the
>>>>>>>>>>>> electorate saw through his bluff, bluster and bullshit in
>>>>>>>>>>>> the 2020 election and rightfully voted him out of office.
>>>>>>>>>>>> For better or worse Biden was the only choice. For that we
>>>>>>>>>>>> can thank the feckless Republican party who stood by their
>>>>>>>>>>>> flawed candidate while the ship was burning.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The Obama fiscal policy rewarded his rich contributors,
>>>>>>>>>>> bankers and
>>>>>>>>>>> Wall Street but it left the middle class suffering. The more
>>>>>>>>>>> we hear
>>>>>>>>>>> about who actually got the money the more pissed people are.
>>>>>>>>>>> They are
>>>>>>>>>>> really just scratching the surface of the massive fraud with
>>>>>>>>>>> a few
>>>>>>>>>>> small timers who got charged. The big players who raked in
>>>>>>>>>>> millions
>>>>>>>>>>> and padded their bottom line with it, like airlines are still
>>>>>>>>>>> free to
>>>>>>>>>>> do it again.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I have a hunch that history will record the Obama/Biden years
>>>>>>>>>> as being
>>>>>>>>>> the most corrupt in modern times.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I would put the stick in the dirt when GHWB took office and we
>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>> suffered from bad leadership since. That is both on the
>>>>>>>>> corporate and
>>>>>>>>> government side. The corporations adopted a 90 day window for
>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>> decision making, just trying to make good quarterly numbers, not
>>>>>>>>> really building anything and they were supported by the same
>>>>>>>>> mentality
>>>>>>>>> in Washington. It was all about how Wall Street is doing with
>>>>>>>>> no real
>>>>>>>>> concern with how things are going on Main Street, what we do
>>>>>>>>> next year
>>>>>>>>> or how we will ever service the debt they incurred. The Democrats
>>>>>>>>> embraced Rubin, Summers, Geithner and Greenspan more than the
>>>>>>>>> Republicans.
>>>>>>>>> We can complain about the American oligarchs like Jobs, Bezos
>>>>>>>>> and Musk
>>>>>>>>> but at least they were building things.
>>>>>>>>> Musk and Bezos are pretty frustrated with the government too.
>>>>>>>> When I think of corruption I am not thinking bad policies, etc.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am thinking corruption in the sense of using the power and
>>>>>>>> influence of an elected office for personal financial gains.
>>>>>>>> Biden is a perfect example of a smiling, career politician who
>>>>>>>> has his
>>>>>>>> hand out everywhere. Hunter's laptop will eventually do him in.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't think GWB was corrupt in this sense. You can argue his
>>>>>>>> policies but there's no evidence anywhere of him personally
>>>>>>>> gaining by them financially, at least not by plan.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This will irk Wayne and Harry but neither did Trump.
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm not irked at all, in fact I agree with you about GWB. I think
>>>>>>> the jury is still out on Biden but no one is more corrupt than
>>>>>>> Trump. It's in his genes. GWBs big failing was putting too much
>>>>>>> blind faith in Cheney and Rumsfeld..
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think the jury may be closer to a decision on Biden than you may
>>>>>> think.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have you followed and considered any of the Hunter laptop
>>>>>> revelations or
>>>>>> have you chosen to ignore them as most of the liberal press and media
>>>>>> has?
>>>>>
>>>>> ===
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I've mostly ignored the Hunter allegations since he's just
>>>>> leveraging his family connections like so many others. Is Joe
>>>>> responsible for the actions of his adult son? If Hunter has broken
>>>>> laws he should be prosecuted like anyone else.
>>>>
>>>> If some of the allegations are true (I am not saying they *are*) broken
>>>> laws may extend beyond Hunter. In fact, it could turn out that Hunter
>>>> technically broke no laws but if his daddy shared financially in his
>>>> business activities, especially when VP, this could become a really
>>>> big legal issue.
>>> Biden has enough juice at DoJ to have them slow walk this thing until
>>> he is out of office, then he hopes nobody will care. The media largely
>>> ignores this anyway. I suppose, if Trump is a precedent, a GOP house
>>> could still impeach him from his VP office, 10 years later.
>>
>> ===
>>
>> Even in the unlikely event that Biden the senior did anything illegal
>> as VP, the statute of limitations will have long since expired.  Let's
>> try to remember that this discussion is about Trump, whose misdeeds
>> are current and ongoing.  No one else in the history of this country
>> has illegally tried to stay in power after losing  a presidential
>> election.  The illegality continues as he solicits millions in
>> donations under the false pretext that the election was stolen from him.
>
> Wayne said:
>
> "Let's try to remember that this discussion is about Trump, whose
>   misdeeds are current and ongoing."
>
> Given the record so far of his presidency, the discussion really
> *should* be about Biden.  He's running out of people to blame.
>

On 7/7/2022 10:17 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
> On 7/7/22 6:34 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>> On 7/6/2022 3:51 PM, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 2:20:17 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 10:49:22 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 7/6/2022 10:38 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 6:41:52 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>>>> On 7/6/2022 1:42 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, July 5, 2022 at 7:13:34 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 7/4/2022 4:02 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 06:55:57 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
>>>>>>>>>> <not...@noland.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/3/2022 8:01 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 12:19:49 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 7:00:11 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/2/2022 4:53 PM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 4:16:22 PM UTC-4,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 07:39:53 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <not...@noland.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/1/2022 4:58 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 11:56:20 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 2:27:15 PM UTC-4,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 09:33:30 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >From an op-ed article by Mick Mulvaney in USA Today:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's quite likely that Trump attempted to obstruct
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> justice, which may turn out to be the most serious,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and most provable crime he committed according to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mick Mulvaney, Director of the Office of Management
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and Budget; White House Chief of Staff.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Per Mulvaney, such claims are the threat Trump
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should be most worried about.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He also described a former White House aide's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tuesday testimony as "eminently credible."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The former acting White House chief of staff Mick
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote on Wednesday that in his view the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> real threat to former President Donald Trump was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence that might lead to accusations of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obstruction of justice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote that he had previously defended the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> former president against claims that he did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "anything illegal or criminal" in relation to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Capitol riot. He said he was having difficulty
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintaining that position, however, particularly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after Hutchinson's testimony, which he said he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> found "eminently credible."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Because after some of the bombshells that got
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dropped in that hearing, my guess is that things
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could get very dark for the former president,"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney also said, though, that Tuesday's hearing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> revealed one real threat to Trump that didn't hinge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on Hutchinson's words or credibility. "It is the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one that jumped out at me," he wrote. "And it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the one that should most worry the former president."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He referred to the evidence presented by Rep. Liz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheney of Wyoming toward the end of the hearing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consisting of two messages that January 6 panel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witnesses said they received before giving their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> depositions. The messages included allusions to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being a "team player" to "stay in the good graces
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in Trump world" as well as a reminder that Trump
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> read transcripts of interviews.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney said that the implication behind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> displaying the messages during the hearing was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "crystal clear."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "The Jan. 6 committee members believe they have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence that people within the Trump operation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attempted to intimidate witnesses," Mulvaney wrote.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "And that, any way you slice it, is obstruction of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> justice."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you want to bet, if Trump said he wasn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> running in 2024, this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whole witch hunt evaporates. De Santis may be taking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that option away
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from him anyway.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witch-hunt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /?wiCH ?h?nt/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nounhistorical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noun: witch-hunt; plural noun: witch-hunts; noun:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witchhunt; plural noun: witchhunts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a) search for and subsequent persecution of a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supposed witch.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> b) informal: a campaign directed against a person or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> group holding unorthodox or unpopular views.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I take some exception to your use of "witch-hunt"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because of its implication of a search for something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that isn't real. In my mind, and the mind of many
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others, Trump's criminality is very real. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question is how best to prove it, and how best to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> punish it. I'm not sure it's enough to just keep him
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from running in 2024 but that's a good start. I'd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like to see his cult mystique with the right win
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sector of the Republican party totally annihilated so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that we never have to deal with his toxic influence
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> again.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The whole process bothers me. Even you admit, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whole exercise is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> designed to prevent him from running again (two
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impeachments, one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after he left office and now you are hanging your hat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the 14th
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amendment)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Isn't this supposed to be up to the voters?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why are you folks so afraid of open and free elections?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would much prefer that he simply gets clobbered in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the primaries by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> margins too great to protest. De Santis is already
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chipping away at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his base.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I still believe the risks of trying to charge this guy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over bullshit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the social upheaval it might cause is not worth
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the risk for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> slim chance you can get any kind of conviction by 2024.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The court would still be hearing motions by then.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I mentioned before, Cruz is still in court for a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school shooting in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2018 and it was a slam dunk against a kid with few
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> resources to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> present a defense.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trump may be a piece of shit but he is a rich piece of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shit who has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> always been surrounded by lawyers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Even Biden the Bozo isn't blaming Trump for much anymore.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's all "Russia, Russia, Russia".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Biden has to be a little careful or someone will point
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out Russia was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pretty quiet on Trump's watch. They got frisky during
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obama's watch
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and started a war on Biden's watch.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Putin had Trump right where he wanted him and didn't want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to upset the balance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://cdn.forumcomm.com/dims4/default/cc2560c/2147483647/strip/false/crop/3259x2423+0+0/resize/1486x1105!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum-communications-production-web.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fbrightspot%2F5d%2F6e%2F99f75ab4481499aab953bee3ff59%2Fcolor-edit-toon-trump-on-nato-and-russia.jpg
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cute.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's obvious you have an intense dislike for Trump which is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understandable. Based on your many posts about him, your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dislike goes back a long ways ... back when he was in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> private business and well before he ran for and won the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Presidency.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, if you can put that intense dislike and bias aside for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a moment, do you really feel the USA is in better positions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and conditions, economically, domestically and globally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> today compared to four years ago?.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The seeds of inflation were planted on Trump's watch with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Quantitative Easing program. It helped to keep the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> economy afloat during the Covid crisis but now were paying
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the price. The same can be said for the global supply chain
>>>>>>>>>>>>> crisis. Could Trump have done anything about it if still in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> office? Frankly I doubt it. He would have done a good job
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of blaming it on someone else however. That's his special
>>>>>>>>>>>>> talent. Does it not matter to you that he tried to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> overthrow an election and obstruct the peaceful transfer of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> power? That is the bedrock of our democracy, and Trump
>>>>>>>>>>>>> reminds us of how fragile it can be. The vast majority of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the electorate saw through his bluff, bluster and bullshit
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the 2020 election and rightfully voted him out of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> office. For better or worse Biden was the only choice. For
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that we can thank the feckless Republican party who stood
>>>>>>>>>>>>> by their flawed candidate while the ship was burning.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The Obama fiscal policy rewarded his rich contributors,
>>>>>>>>>>>> bankers and
>>>>>>>>>>>> Wall Street but it left the middle class suffering. The more
>>>>>>>>>>>> we hear
>>>>>>>>>>>> about who actually got the money the more pissed people are.
>>>>>>>>>>>> They are
>>>>>>>>>>>> really just scratching the surface of the massive fraud with
>>>>>>>>>>>> a few
>>>>>>>>>>>> small timers who got charged. The big players who raked in
>>>>>>>>>>>> millions
>>>>>>>>>>>> and padded their bottom line with it, like airlines are
>>>>>>>>>>>> still free to
>>>>>>>>>>>> do it again.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I have a hunch that history will record the Obama/Biden years
>>>>>>>>>>> as being
>>>>>>>>>>> the most corrupt in modern times.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I would put the stick in the dirt when GHWB took office and we
>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>> suffered from bad leadership since. That is both on the
>>>>>>>>>> corporate and
>>>>>>>>>> government side. The corporations adopted a 90 day window for
>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>> decision making, just trying to make good quarterly numbers, not
>>>>>>>>>> really building anything and they were supported by the same
>>>>>>>>>> mentality
>>>>>>>>>> in Washington. It was all about how Wall Street is doing with
>>>>>>>>>> no real
>>>>>>>>>> concern with how things are going on Main Street, what we do
>>>>>>>>>> next year
>>>>>>>>>> or how we will ever service the debt they incurred. The Democrats
>>>>>>>>>> embraced Rubin, Summers, Geithner and Greenspan more than the
>>>>>>>>>> Republicans.
>>>>>>>>>> We can complain about the American oligarchs like Jobs, Bezos
>>>>>>>>>> and Musk
>>>>>>>>>> but at least they were building things.
>>>>>>>>>> Musk and Bezos are pretty frustrated with the government too.
>>>>>>>>> When I think of corruption I am not thinking bad policies, etc.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am thinking corruption in the sense of using the power and
>>>>>>>>> influence of an elected office for personal financial gains.
>>>>>>>>> Biden is a perfect example of a smiling, career politician who
>>>>>>>>> has his
>>>>>>>>> hand out everywhere. Hunter's laptop will eventually do him in.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't think GWB was corrupt in this sense. You can argue his
>>>>>>>>> policies but there's no evidence anywhere of him personally
>>>>>>>>> gaining by them financially, at least not by plan.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This will irk Wayne and Harry but neither did Trump.
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm not irked at all, in fact I agree with you about GWB. I
>>>>>>>> think the jury is still out on Biden but no one is more corrupt
>>>>>>>> than Trump. It's in his genes. GWBs big failing was putting too
>>>>>>>> much blind faith in Cheney and Rumsfeld..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think the jury may be closer to a decision on Biden than you
>>>>>>> may think.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Have you followed and considered any of the Hunter laptop
>>>>>>> revelations or
>>>>>>> have you chosen to ignore them as most of the liberal press and
>>>>>>> media
>>>>>>> has?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I've mostly ignored the Hunter allegations since he's just
>>>>>> leveraging his family connections like so many others. Is Joe
>>>>>> responsible for the actions of his adult son? If Hunter has broken
>>>>>> laws he should be prosecuted like anyone else.
>>>>>
>>>>> If some of the allegations are true (I am not saying they *are*)
>>>>> broken
>>>>> laws may extend beyond Hunter. In fact, it could turn out that Hunter
>>>>> technically broke no laws but if his daddy shared financially in his
>>>>> business activities, especially when VP, this could become a really
>>>>> big legal issue.
>>>> Biden has enough juice at DoJ to have them slow walk this thing until
>>>> he is out of office, then he hopes nobody will care. The media largely
>>>> ignores this anyway. I suppose, if Trump is a precedent, a GOP house
>>>> could still impeach him from his VP office, 10 years later.
>>>
>>> ===
>>>
>>> Even in the unlikely event that Biden the senior did anything illegal
>>> as VP, the statute of limitations will have long since expired.
>>> Let's try to remember that this discussion is about Trump, whose
>>> misdeeds are current and ongoing.  No one else in the history of this
>>> country has illegally tried to stay in power after losing  a
>>> presidential election.  The illegality continues as he solicits
>>> millions in donations under the false pretext that the election was
>>> stolen from him.
>>
>> Wayne said:
>>
>> "Let's try to remember that this discussion is about Trump, whose
>>    misdeeds are current and ongoing."
>>
>> Given the record so far of his presidency, the discussion really
>> *should* be about Biden.  He's running out of people to blame.
>>
>
> Because, of course, when the Obama-Biden Admin came to an end, Biden
> asked his supporters to come to D.C., and plan and commit an armed
> insurrection against the House of Representatives and find political
> leaders and execute them.
>

On 7/7/22 10:52 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
> On 7/7/2022 10:17 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
>> On 7/7/22 6:34 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>> On 7/6/2022 3:51 PM, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 2:20:17 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 10:49:22 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 7/6/2022 10:38 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 6:41:52 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 7/6/2022 1:42 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, July 5, 2022 at 7:13:34 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 7/4/2022 4:02 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 06:55:57 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
>>>>>>>>>>> <not...@noland.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/3/2022 8:01 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 12:19:49 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 7:00:11 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/2/2022 4:53 PM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 4:16:22 PM UTC-4,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 07:39:53 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <not...@noland.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/1/2022 4:58 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 11:56:20 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 2:27:15 PM UTC-4,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 09:33:30 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >From an op-ed article by Mick Mulvaney in USA Today:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's quite likely that Trump attempted to obstruct
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> justice, which may turn out to be the most
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> serious, and most provable crime he committed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> according to Mick Mulvaney, Director of the Office
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of Management and Budget; White House Chief of Staff.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Per Mulvaney, such claims are the threat Trump
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should be most worried about.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He also described a former White House aide's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tuesday testimony as "eminently credible."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The former acting White House chief of staff Mick
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote on Wednesday that in his view the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> real threat to former President Donald Trump was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence that might lead to accusations of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obstruction of justice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote that he had previously defended the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> former president against claims that he did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "anything illegal or criminal" in relation to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Capitol riot. He said he was having difficulty
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintaining that position, however, particularly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after Hutchinson's testimony, which he said he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> found "eminently credible."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Because after some of the bombshells that got
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dropped in that hearing, my guess is that things
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could get very dark for the former president,"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney also said, though, that Tuesday's hearing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> revealed one real threat to Trump that didn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hinge on Hutchinson's words or credibility. "It is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the one that jumped out at me," he wrote. "And it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is the one that should most worry the former
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> president."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He referred to the evidence presented by Rep. Liz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheney of Wyoming toward the end of the hearing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consisting of two messages that January 6 panel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witnesses said they received before giving their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> depositions. The messages included allusions to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being a "team player" to "stay in the good graces
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in Trump world" as well as a reminder that Trump
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> read transcripts of interviews.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney said that the implication behind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> displaying the messages during the hearing was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "crystal clear."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "The Jan. 6 committee members believe they have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence that people within the Trump operation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attempted to intimidate witnesses," Mulvaney
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote. "And that, any way you slice it, is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obstruction of justice."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you want to bet, if Trump said he wasn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> running in 2024, this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whole witch hunt evaporates. De Santis may be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking that option away
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from him anyway.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witch-hunt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /?wiCH ?h?nt/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nounhistorical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noun: witch-hunt; plural noun: witch-hunts; noun:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witchhunt; plural noun: witchhunts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a) search for and subsequent persecution of a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supposed witch.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> b) informal: a campaign directed against a person or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> group holding unorthodox or unpopular views.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I take some exception to your use of "witch-hunt"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because of its implication of a search for something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that isn't real. In my mind, and the mind of many
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others, Trump's criminality is very real. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question is how best to prove it, and how best to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> punish it. I'm not sure it's enough to just keep him
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from running in 2024 but that's a good start. I'd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like to see his cult mystique with the right win
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sector of the Republican party totally annihilated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so that we never have to deal with his toxic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> influence again.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The whole process bothers me. Even you admit, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whole exercise is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> designed to prevent him from running again (two
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impeachments, one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after he left office and now you are hanging your hat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the 14th
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amendment)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Isn't this supposed to be up to the voters?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why are you folks so afraid of open and free elections?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would much prefer that he simply gets clobbered in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the primaries by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> margins too great to protest. De Santis is already
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chipping away at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his base.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I still believe the risks of trying to charge this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guy over bullshit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the social upheaval it might cause is not worth
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the risk for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> slim chance you can get any kind of conviction by 2024.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The court would still be hearing motions by then.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I mentioned before, Cruz is still in court for a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school shooting in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2018 and it was a slam dunk against a kid with few
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> resources to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> present a defense.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trump may be a piece of shit but he is a rich piece
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of shit who has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> always been surrounded by lawyers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Even Biden the Bozo isn't blaming Trump for much anymore.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's all "Russia, Russia, Russia".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Biden has to be a little careful or someone will point
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out Russia was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pretty quiet on Trump's watch. They got frisky during
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obama's watch
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and started a war on Biden's watch.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Putin had Trump right where he wanted him and didn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want to upset the balance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://cdn.forumcomm.com/dims4/default/cc2560c/2147483647/strip/false/crop/3259x2423+0+0/resize/1486x1105!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum-communications-production-web.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fbrightspot%2F5d%2F6e%2F99f75ab4481499aab953bee3ff59%2Fcolor-edit-toon-trump-on-nato-and-russia.jpg
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cute.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's obvious you have an intense dislike for Trump which is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understandable. Based on your many posts about him, your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dislike goes back a long ways ... back when he was in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> private business and well before he ran for and won the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Presidency.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, if you can put that intense dislike and bias aside for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a moment, do you really feel the USA is in better positions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and conditions, economically, domestically and globally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> today compared to four years ago?.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The seeds of inflation were planted on Trump's watch with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Quantitative Easing program. It helped to keep the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> economy afloat during the Covid crisis but now were paying
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the price. The same can be said for the global supply
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chain crisis. Could Trump have done anything about it if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still in office? Frankly I doubt it. He would have done a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good job of blaming it on someone else however. That's his
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> special talent. Does it not matter to you that he tried to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> overthrow an election and obstruct the peaceful transfer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of power? That is the bedrock of our democracy, and Trump
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reminds us of how fragile it can be. The vast majority of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the electorate saw through his bluff, bluster and bullshit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the 2020 election and rightfully voted him out of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> office. For better or worse Biden was the only choice. For
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that we can thank the feckless Republican party who stood
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by their flawed candidate while the ship was burning.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Obama fiscal policy rewarded his rich contributors,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> bankers and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wall Street but it left the middle class suffering. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>> more we hear
>>>>>>>>>>>>> about who actually got the money the more pissed people
>>>>>>>>>>>>> are. They are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> really just scratching the surface of the massive fraud
>>>>>>>>>>>>> with a few
>>>>>>>>>>>>> small timers who got charged. The big players who raked in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> millions
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and padded their bottom line with it, like airlines are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> still free to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> do it again.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a hunch that history will record the Obama/Biden
>>>>>>>>>>>> years as being
>>>>>>>>>>>> the most corrupt in modern times.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I would put the stick in the dirt when GHWB took office and
>>>>>>>>>>> we have
>>>>>>>>>>> suffered from bad leadership since. That is both on the
>>>>>>>>>>> corporate and
>>>>>>>>>>> government side. The corporations adopted a 90 day window for
>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>> decision making, just trying to make good quarterly numbers, not
>>>>>>>>>>> really building anything and they were supported by the same
>>>>>>>>>>> mentality
>>>>>>>>>>> in Washington. It was all about how Wall Street is doing with
>>>>>>>>>>> no real
>>>>>>>>>>> concern with how things are going on Main Street, what we do
>>>>>>>>>>> next year
>>>>>>>>>>> or how we will ever service the debt they incurred. The
>>>>>>>>>>> Democrats
>>>>>>>>>>> embraced Rubin, Summers, Geithner and Greenspan more than the
>>>>>>>>>>> Republicans.
>>>>>>>>>>> We can complain about the American oligarchs like Jobs, Bezos
>>>>>>>>>>> and Musk
>>>>>>>>>>> but at least they were building things.
>>>>>>>>>>> Musk and Bezos are pretty frustrated with the government too.
>>>>>>>>>> When I think of corruption I am not thinking bad policies, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I am thinking corruption in the sense of using the power and
>>>>>>>>>> influence of an elected office for personal financial gains.
>>>>>>>>>> Biden is a perfect example of a smiling, career politician who
>>>>>>>>>> has his
>>>>>>>>>> hand out everywhere. Hunter's laptop will eventually do him in.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I don't think GWB was corrupt in this sense. You can argue his
>>>>>>>>>> policies but there's no evidence anywhere of him personally
>>>>>>>>>> gaining by them financially, at least not by plan.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This will irk Wayne and Harry but neither did Trump.
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm not irked at all, in fact I agree with you about GWB. I
>>>>>>>>> think the jury is still out on Biden but no one is more corrupt
>>>>>>>>> than Trump. It's in his genes. GWBs big failing was putting too
>>>>>>>>> much blind faith in Cheney and Rumsfeld..
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think the jury may be closer to a decision on Biden than you
>>>>>>>> may think.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Have you followed and considered any of the Hunter laptop
>>>>>>>> revelations or
>>>>>>>> have you chosen to ignore them as most of the liberal press and
>>>>>>>> media
>>>>>>>> has?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've mostly ignored the Hunter allegations since he's just
>>>>>>> leveraging his family connections like so many others. Is Joe
>>>>>>> responsible for the actions of his adult son? If Hunter has
>>>>>>> broken laws he should be prosecuted like anyone else.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If some of the allegations are true (I am not saying they *are*)
>>>>>> broken
>>>>>> laws may extend beyond Hunter. In fact, it could turn out that Hunter
>>>>>> technically broke no laws but if his daddy shared financially in his
>>>>>> business activities, especially when VP, this could become a really
>>>>>> big legal issue.
>>>>> Biden has enough juice at DoJ to have them slow walk this thing until
>>>>> he is out of office, then he hopes nobody will care. The media largely
>>>>> ignores this anyway. I suppose, if Trump is a precedent, a GOP house
>>>>> could still impeach him from his VP office, 10 years later.
>>>>
>>>> ===
>>>>
>>>> Even in the unlikely event that Biden the senior did anything
>>>> illegal as VP, the statute of limitations will have long since
>>>> expired. Let's try to remember that this discussion is about Trump,
>>>> whose misdeeds are current and ongoing.  No one else in the history
>>>> of this country has illegally tried to stay in power after losing  a
>>>> presidential election.  The illegality continues as he solicits
>>>> millions in donations under the false pretext that the election was
>>>> stolen from him.
>>>
>>> Wayne said:
>>>
>>> "Let's try to remember that this discussion is about Trump, whose
>>>    misdeeds are current and ongoing."
>>>
>>> Given the record so far of his presidency, the discussion really
>>> *should* be about Biden.  He's running out of people to blame.
>>>
>>
>> Because, of course, when the Obama-Biden Admin came to an end, Biden
>> asked his supporters to come to D.C., and plan and commit an armed
>> insurrection against the House of Representatives and find political
>> leaders and execute them.
>>
>
>
> You certainly have an imagination.  Trump did no such thing.
>
> But "the Big Guy" filled his bank accounts with his
> drug addict son as VP and after.
>
>
>
Yeah, Trump did. And Trump & Family have been filling their pockets
illegally for years. Ever read up about the cancer charity scam?

On Thu, 7 Jul 2022 10:17:12 -0400, Keyser Söze
<KeyserSöze@whitehouse.com> wrote:

>On 7/7/22 6:34 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>> On 7/6/2022 3:51 PM, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 2:20:17 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 10:49:22 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 7/6/2022 10:38 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 6:41:52 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>>>> On 7/6/2022 1:42 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, July 5, 2022 at 7:13:34 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 7/4/2022 4:02 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 06:55:57 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
>>>>>>>>>> <not...@noland.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/3/2022 8:01 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 12:19:49 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 7:00:11 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/2/2022 4:53 PM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 4:16:22 PM UTC-4,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 07:39:53 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <not...@noland.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/1/2022 4:58 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 11:56:20 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 2:27:15 PM UTC-4,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 09:33:30 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >From an op-ed article by Mick Mulvaney in USA Today:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's quite likely that Trump attempted to obstruct
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> justice, which may turn out to be the most serious,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and most provable crime he committed according to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mick Mulvaney, Director of the Office of Management
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and Budget; White House Chief of Staff.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Per Mulvaney, such claims are the threat Trump
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should be most worried about.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He also described a former White House aide's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tuesday testimony as "eminently credible."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The former acting White House chief of staff Mick
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote on Wednesday that in his view the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> real threat to former President Donald Trump was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence that might lead to accusations of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obstruction of justice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote that he had previously defended the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> former president against claims that he did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "anything illegal or criminal" in relation to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Capitol riot. He said he was having difficulty
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintaining that position, however, particularly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after Hutchinson's testimony, which he said he found
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "eminently credible."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Because after some of the bombshells that got
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dropped in that hearing, my guess is that things
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could get very dark for the former president,"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney also said, though, that Tuesday's hearing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> revealed one real threat to Trump that didn't hinge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on Hutchinson's words or credibility. "It is the one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that jumped out at me," he wrote. "And it is the one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that should most worry the former president."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He referred to the evidence presented by Rep. Liz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheney of Wyoming toward the end of the hearing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consisting of two messages that January 6 panel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witnesses said they received before giving their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> depositions. The messages included allusions to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being a "team player" to "stay in the good graces in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trump world" as well as a reminder that Trump read
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transcripts of interviews.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney said that the implication behind displaying
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the messages during the hearing was "crystal clear."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "The Jan. 6 committee members believe they have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence that people within the Trump operation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attempted to intimidate witnesses," Mulvaney wrote.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "And that, any way you slice it, is obstruction of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> justice."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you want to bet, if Trump said he wasn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> running in 2024, this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whole witch hunt evaporates. De Santis may be taking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that option away
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from him anyway.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witch-hunt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /?wiCH ?h?nt/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nounhistorical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noun: witch-hunt; plural noun: witch-hunts; noun:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witchhunt; plural noun: witchhunts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a) search for and subsequent persecution of a supposed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witch.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> b) informal: a campaign directed against a person or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> group holding unorthodox or unpopular views.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I take some exception to your use of "witch-hunt"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because of its implication of a search for something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that isn't real. In my mind, and the mind of many
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others, Trump's criminality is very real. The question
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is how best to prove it, and how best to punish it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure it's enough to just keep him from running
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in 2024 but that's a good start. I'd like to see his
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cult mystique with the right win sector of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Republican party totally annihilated so that we never
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to deal with his toxic influence again.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The whole process bothers me. Even you admit, the whole
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exercise is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> designed to prevent him from running again (two
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impeachments, one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after he left office and now you are hanging your hat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the 14th
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amendment)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Isn't this supposed to be up to the voters?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why are you folks so afraid of open and free elections?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would much prefer that he simply gets clobbered in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the primaries by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> margins too great to protest. De Santis is already
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chipping away at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his base.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I still believe the risks of trying to charge this guy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over bullshit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the social upheaval it might cause is not worth the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> risk for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> slim chance you can get any kind of conviction by 2024.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The court would still be hearing motions by then.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I mentioned before, Cruz is still in court for a school
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shooting in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2018 and it was a slam dunk against a kid with few
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> resources to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> present a defense.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trump may be a piece of shit but he is a rich piece of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shit who has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> always been surrounded by lawyers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Even Biden the Bozo isn't blaming Trump for much anymore.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's all "Russia, Russia, Russia".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Biden has to be a little careful or someone will point
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out Russia was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pretty quiet on Trump's watch. They got frisky during
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obama's watch
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and started a war on Biden's watch.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Putin had Trump right where he wanted him and didn't want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to upset the balance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://cdn.forumcomm.com/dims4/default/cc2560c/2147483647/strip/false/crop/3259x2423+0+0/resize/1486x1105!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum-communications-production-web.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fbrightspot%2F5d%2F6e%2F99f75ab4481499aab953bee3ff59%2Fcolor-edit-toon-trump-on-nato-and-russia.jpg
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cute.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's obvious you have an intense dislike for Trump which is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understandable. Based on your many posts about him, your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dislike goes back a long ways ... back when he was in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> private business and well before he ran for and won the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Presidency.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, if you can put that intense dislike and bias aside for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a moment, do you really feel the USA is in better positions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and conditions, economically, domestically and globally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> today compared to four years ago?.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The seeds of inflation were planted on Trump's watch with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Quantitative Easing program. It helped to keep the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> economy afloat during the Covid crisis but now were paying
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the price. The same can be said for the global supply chain
>>>>>>>>>>>>> crisis. Could Trump have done anything about it if still in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> office? Frankly I doubt it. He would have done a good job of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> blaming it on someone else however. That's his special
>>>>>>>>>>>>> talent. Does it not matter to you that he tried to overthrow
>>>>>>>>>>>>> an election and obstruct the peaceful transfer of power?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is the bedrock of our democracy, and Trump reminds us
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of how fragile it can be. The vast majority of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> electorate saw through his bluff, bluster and bullshit in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 2020 election and rightfully voted him out of office.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> For better or worse Biden was the only choice. For that we
>>>>>>>>>>>>> can thank the feckless Republican party who stood by their
>>>>>>>>>>>>> flawed candidate while the ship was burning.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The Obama fiscal policy rewarded his rich contributors,
>>>>>>>>>>>> bankers and
>>>>>>>>>>>> Wall Street but it left the middle class suffering. The more
>>>>>>>>>>>> we hear
>>>>>>>>>>>> about who actually got the money the more pissed people are.
>>>>>>>>>>>> They are
>>>>>>>>>>>> really just scratching the surface of the massive fraud with
>>>>>>>>>>>> a few
>>>>>>>>>>>> small timers who got charged. The big players who raked in
>>>>>>>>>>>> millions
>>>>>>>>>>>> and padded their bottom line with it, like airlines are still
>>>>>>>>>>>> free to
>>>>>>>>>>>> do it again.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I have a hunch that history will record the Obama/Biden years
>>>>>>>>>>> as being
>>>>>>>>>>> the most corrupt in modern times.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I would put the stick in the dirt when GHWB took office and we
>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>> suffered from bad leadership since. That is both on the
>>>>>>>>>> corporate and
>>>>>>>>>> government side. The corporations adopted a 90 day window for
>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>> decision making, just trying to make good quarterly numbers, not
>>>>>>>>>> really building anything and they were supported by the same
>>>>>>>>>> mentality
>>>>>>>>>> in Washington. It was all about how Wall Street is doing with
>>>>>>>>>> no real
>>>>>>>>>> concern with how things are going on Main Street, what we do
>>>>>>>>>> next year
>>>>>>>>>> or how we will ever service the debt they incurred. The Democrats
>>>>>>>>>> embraced Rubin, Summers, Geithner and Greenspan more than the
>>>>>>>>>> Republicans.
>>>>>>>>>> We can complain about the American oligarchs like Jobs, Bezos
>>>>>>>>>> and Musk
>>>>>>>>>> but at least they were building things.
>>>>>>>>>> Musk and Bezos are pretty frustrated with the government too.
>>>>>>>>> When I think of corruption I am not thinking bad policies, etc.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am thinking corruption in the sense of using the power and
>>>>>>>>> influence of an elected office for personal financial gains.
>>>>>>>>> Biden is a perfect example of a smiling, career politician who
>>>>>>>>> has his
>>>>>>>>> hand out everywhere. Hunter's laptop will eventually do him in.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't think GWB was corrupt in this sense. You can argue his
>>>>>>>>> policies but there's no evidence anywhere of him personally
>>>>>>>>> gaining by them financially, at least not by plan.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This will irk Wayne and Harry but neither did Trump.
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm not irked at all, in fact I agree with you about GWB. I think
>>>>>>>> the jury is still out on Biden but no one is more corrupt than
>>>>>>>> Trump. It's in his genes. GWBs big failing was putting too much
>>>>>>>> blind faith in Cheney and Rumsfeld..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think the jury may be closer to a decision on Biden than you may
>>>>>>> think.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Have you followed and considered any of the Hunter laptop
>>>>>>> revelations or
>>>>>>> have you chosen to ignore them as most of the liberal press and media
>>>>>>> has?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I've mostly ignored the Hunter allegations since he's just
>>>>>> leveraging his family connections like so many others. Is Joe
>>>>>> responsible for the actions of his adult son? If Hunter has broken
>>>>>> laws he should be prosecuted like anyone else.
>>>>>
>>>>> If some of the allegations are true (I am not saying they *are*) broken
>>>>> laws may extend beyond Hunter. In fact, it could turn out that Hunter
>>>>> technically broke no laws but if his daddy shared financially in his
>>>>> business activities, especially when VP, this could become a really
>>>>> big legal issue.
>>>> Biden has enough juice at DoJ to have them slow walk this thing until
>>>> he is out of office, then he hopes nobody will care. The media largely
>>>> ignores this anyway. I suppose, if Trump is a precedent, a GOP house
>>>> could still impeach him from his VP office, 10 years later.
>>>
>>> ===
>>>
>>> Even in the unlikely event that Biden the senior did anything illegal
>>> as VP, the statute of limitations will have long since expired.  Let's
>>> try to remember that this discussion is about Trump, whose misdeeds
>>> are current and ongoing.  No one else in the history of this country
>>> has illegally tried to stay in power after losing  a presidential
>>> election.  The illegality continues as he solicits millions in
>>> donations under the false pretext that the election was stolen from him.
>>
>> Wayne said:
>>
>> "Let's try to remember that this discussion is about Trump, whose
>>   misdeeds are current and ongoing."
>>
>> Given the record so far of his presidency, the discussion really
>> *should* be about Biden.  He's running out of people to blame.
>>
>
>Because, of course, when the Obama-Biden Admin came to an end, Biden
>asked his supporters to come to D.C., and plan and commit an armed
>insurrection against the House of Representatives and find political
>leaders and execute them.

On Thu, 7 Jul 2022 11:19:32 -0400, Keyser Söze
<KeyserSöze@whitehouse.com> wrote:

>On 7/7/22 10:52 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>> On 7/7/2022 10:17 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
>>> On 7/7/22 6:34 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>> On 7/6/2022 3:51 PM, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 2:20:17 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 10:49:22 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 7/6/2022 10:38 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 6:41:52 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 7/6/2022 1:42 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, July 5, 2022 at 7:13:34 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/4/2022 4:02 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 06:55:57 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
>>>>>>>>>>>> <not...@noland.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/3/2022 8:01 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 12:19:49 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 7:00:11 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/2/2022 4:53 PM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 4:16:22 PM UTC-4,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 07:39:53 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <not...@noland.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/1/2022 4:58 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 11:56:20 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 2:27:15 PM UTC-4,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 09:33:30 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >From an op-ed article by Mick Mulvaney in USA Today:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's quite likely that Trump attempted to obstruct
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> justice, which may turn out to be the most
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> serious, and most provable crime he committed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> according to Mick Mulvaney, Director of the Office
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of Management and Budget; White House Chief of Staff.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Per Mulvaney, such claims are the threat Trump
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should be most worried about.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He also described a former White House aide's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tuesday testimony as "eminently credible."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The former acting White House chief of staff Mick
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote on Wednesday that in his view the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> real threat to former President Donald Trump was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence that might lead to accusations of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obstruction of justice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote that he had previously defended the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> former president against claims that he did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "anything illegal or criminal" in relation to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Capitol riot. He said he was having difficulty
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintaining that position, however, particularly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after Hutchinson's testimony, which he said he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> found "eminently credible."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Because after some of the bombshells that got
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dropped in that hearing, my guess is that things
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could get very dark for the former president,"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney also said, though, that Tuesday's hearing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> revealed one real threat to Trump that didn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hinge on Hutchinson's words or credibility. "It is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the one that jumped out at me," he wrote. "And it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is the one that should most worry the former
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> president."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He referred to the evidence presented by Rep. Liz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheney of Wyoming toward the end of the hearing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consisting of two messages that January 6 panel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witnesses said they received before giving their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> depositions. The messages included allusions to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being a "team player" to "stay in the good graces
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in Trump world" as well as a reminder that Trump
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> read transcripts of interviews.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney said that the implication behind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> displaying the messages during the hearing was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "crystal clear."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "The Jan. 6 committee members believe they have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence that people within the Trump operation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attempted to intimidate witnesses," Mulvaney
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote. "And that, any way you slice it, is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obstruction of justice."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you want to bet, if Trump said he wasn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> running in 2024, this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whole witch hunt evaporates. De Santis may be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking that option away
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from him anyway.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witch-hunt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /?wiCH ?h?nt/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nounhistorical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noun: witch-hunt; plural noun: witch-hunts; noun:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witchhunt; plural noun: witchhunts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a) search for and subsequent persecution of a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supposed witch.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> b) informal: a campaign directed against a person or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> group holding unorthodox or unpopular views.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I take some exception to your use of "witch-hunt"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because of its implication of a search for something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that isn't real. In my mind, and the mind of many
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others, Trump's criminality is very real. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question is how best to prove it, and how best to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> punish it. I'm not sure it's enough to just keep him
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from running in 2024 but that's a good start. I'd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like to see his cult mystique with the right win
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sector of the Republican party totally annihilated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so that we never have to deal with his toxic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> influence again.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The whole process bothers me. Even you admit, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whole exercise is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> designed to prevent him from running again (two
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impeachments, one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after he left office and now you are hanging your hat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the 14th
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amendment)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Isn't this supposed to be up to the voters?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why are you folks so afraid of open and free elections?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would much prefer that he simply gets clobbered in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the primaries by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> margins too great to protest. De Santis is already
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chipping away at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his base.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I still believe the risks of trying to charge this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guy over bullshit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the social upheaval it might cause is not worth
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the risk for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> slim chance you can get any kind of conviction by 2024.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The court would still be hearing motions by then.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I mentioned before, Cruz is still in court for a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school shooting in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2018 and it was a slam dunk against a kid with few
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> resources to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> present a defense.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trump may be a piece of shit but he is a rich piece
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of shit who has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> always been surrounded by lawyers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Even Biden the Bozo isn't blaming Trump for much anymore.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's all "Russia, Russia, Russia".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Biden has to be a little careful or someone will point
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out Russia was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pretty quiet on Trump's watch. They got frisky during
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obama's watch
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and started a war on Biden's watch.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Putin had Trump right where he wanted him and didn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want to upset the balance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://cdn.forumcomm.com/dims4/default/cc2560c/2147483647/strip/false/crop/3259x2423+0+0/resize/1486x1105!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum-communications-production-web.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fbrightspot%2F5d%2F6e%2F99f75ab4481499aab953bee3ff59%2Fcolor-edit-toon-trump-on-nato-and-russia.jpg
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cute.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's obvious you have an intense dislike for Trump which is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understandable. Based on your many posts about him, your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dislike goes back a long ways ... back when he was in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> private business and well before he ran for and won the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Presidency.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, if you can put that intense dislike and bias aside for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a moment, do you really feel the USA is in better positions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and conditions, economically, domestically and globally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> today compared to four years ago?.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The seeds of inflation were planted on Trump's watch with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Quantitative Easing program. It helped to keep the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> economy afloat during the Covid crisis but now were paying
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the price. The same can be said for the global supply
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chain crisis. Could Trump have done anything about it if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still in office? Frankly I doubt it. He would have done a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good job of blaming it on someone else however. That's his
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> special talent. Does it not matter to you that he tried to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> overthrow an election and obstruct the peaceful transfer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of power? That is the bedrock of our democracy, and Trump
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reminds us of how fragile it can be. The vast majority of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the electorate saw through his bluff, bluster and bullshit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the 2020 election and rightfully voted him out of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> office. For better or worse Biden was the only choice. For
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that we can thank the feckless Republican party who stood
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by their flawed candidate while the ship was burning.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Obama fiscal policy rewarded his rich contributors,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bankers and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wall Street but it left the middle class suffering. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more we hear
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about who actually got the money the more pissed people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are. They are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really just scratching the surface of the massive fraud
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with a few
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> small timers who got charged. The big players who raked in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> millions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and padded their bottom line with it, like airlines are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still free to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do it again.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a hunch that history will record the Obama/Biden
>>>>>>>>>>>>> years as being
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the most corrupt in modern times.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I would put the stick in the dirt when GHWB took office and
>>>>>>>>>>>> we have
>>>>>>>>>>>> suffered from bad leadership since. That is both on the
>>>>>>>>>>>> corporate and
>>>>>>>>>>>> government side. The corporations adopted a 90 day window for
>>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>>> decision making, just trying to make good quarterly numbers, not
>>>>>>>>>>>> really building anything and they were supported by the same
>>>>>>>>>>>> mentality
>>>>>>>>>>>> in Washington. It was all about how Wall Street is doing with
>>>>>>>>>>>> no real
>>>>>>>>>>>> concern with how things are going on Main Street, what we do
>>>>>>>>>>>> next year
>>>>>>>>>>>> or how we will ever service the debt they incurred. The
>>>>>>>>>>>> Democrats
>>>>>>>>>>>> embraced Rubin, Summers, Geithner and Greenspan more than the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Republicans.
>>>>>>>>>>>> We can complain about the American oligarchs like Jobs, Bezos
>>>>>>>>>>>> and Musk
>>>>>>>>>>>> but at least they were building things.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Musk and Bezos are pretty frustrated with the government too.
>>>>>>>>>>> When I think of corruption I am not thinking bad policies, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I am thinking corruption in the sense of using the power and
>>>>>>>>>>> influence of an elected office for personal financial gains.
>>>>>>>>>>> Biden is a perfect example of a smiling, career politician who
>>>>>>>>>>> has his
>>>>>>>>>>> hand out everywhere. Hunter's laptop will eventually do him in.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think GWB was corrupt in this sense. You can argue his
>>>>>>>>>>> policies but there's no evidence anywhere of him personally
>>>>>>>>>>> gaining by them financially, at least not by plan.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This will irk Wayne and Harry but neither did Trump.
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm not irked at all, in fact I agree with you about GWB. I
>>>>>>>>>> think the jury is still out on Biden but no one is more corrupt
>>>>>>>>>> than Trump. It's in his genes. GWBs big failing was putting too
>>>>>>>>>> much blind faith in Cheney and Rumsfeld..
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think the jury may be closer to a decision on Biden than you
>>>>>>>>> may think.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Have you followed and considered any of the Hunter laptop
>>>>>>>>> revelations or
>>>>>>>>> have you chosen to ignore them as most of the liberal press and
>>>>>>>>> media
>>>>>>>>> has?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've mostly ignored the Hunter allegations since he's just
>>>>>>>> leveraging his family connections like so many others. Is Joe
>>>>>>>> responsible for the actions of his adult son? If Hunter has
>>>>>>>> broken laws he should be prosecuted like anyone else.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If some of the allegations are true (I am not saying they *are*)
>>>>>>> broken
>>>>>>> laws may extend beyond Hunter. In fact, it could turn out that Hunter
>>>>>>> technically broke no laws but if his daddy shared financially in his
>>>>>>> business activities, especially when VP, this could become a really
>>>>>>> big legal issue.
>>>>>> Biden has enough juice at DoJ to have them slow walk this thing until
>>>>>> he is out of office, then he hopes nobody will care. The media largely
>>>>>> ignores this anyway. I suppose, if Trump is a precedent, a GOP house
>>>>>> could still impeach him from his VP office, 10 years later.
>>>>>
>>>>> ===
>>>>>
>>>>> Even in the unlikely event that Biden the senior did anything
>>>>> illegal as VP, the statute of limitations will have long since
>>>>> expired. Let's try to remember that this discussion is about Trump,
>>>>> whose misdeeds are current and ongoing.  No one else in the history
>>>>> of this country has illegally tried to stay in power after losing  a
>>>>> presidential election.  The illegality continues as he solicits
>>>>> millions in donations under the false pretext that the election was
>>>>> stolen from him.
>>>>
>>>> Wayne said:
>>>>
>>>> "Let's try to remember that this discussion is about Trump, whose
>>>>    misdeeds are current and ongoing."
>>>>
>>>> Given the record so far of his presidency, the discussion really
>>>> *should* be about Biden.  He's running out of people to blame.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Because, of course, when the Obama-Biden Admin came to an end, Biden
>>> asked his supporters to come to D.C., and plan and commit an armed
>>> insurrection against the House of Representatives and find political
>>> leaders and execute them.
>>>
>>
>>
>> You certainly have an imagination.  Trump did no such thing.
>>
>> But "the Big Guy" filled his bank accounts with his
>> drug addict son as VP and after.
>>
>>
>>
>Yeah, Trump did. And Trump & Family have been filling their pockets
>illegally for years. Ever read up about the cancer charity scam?

On 7/7/2022 2:22 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
> On Thu, 7 Jul 2022 11:19:32 -0400, Keyser Söze
> <KeyserSöze@whitehouse.com> wrote:
>
>> On 7/7/22 10:52 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>> On 7/7/2022 10:17 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
>>>> On 7/7/22 6:34 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>> On 7/6/2022 3:51 PM, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 2:20:17 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 10:49:22 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 7/6/2022 10:38 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 6:41:52 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 7/6/2022 1:42 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, July 5, 2022 at 7:13:34 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/4/2022 4:02 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 06:55:57 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <not...@noland.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/3/2022 8:01 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 12:19:49 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 7:00:11 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/2/2022 4:53 PM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 4:16:22 PM UTC-4,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 07:39:53 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <not...@noland.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/1/2022 4:58 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 11:56:20 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 2:27:15 PM UTC-4,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 09:33:30 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >From an op-ed article by Mick Mulvaney in USA Today:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's quite likely that Trump attempted to obstruct
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> justice, which may turn out to be the most
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> serious, and most provable crime he committed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> according to Mick Mulvaney, Director of the Office
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of Management and Budget; White House Chief of Staff.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Per Mulvaney, such claims are the threat Trump
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should be most worried about.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He also described a former White House aide's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tuesday testimony as "eminently credible."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The former acting White House chief of staff Mick
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote on Wednesday that in his view the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> real threat to former President Donald Trump was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence that might lead to accusations of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obstruction of justice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote that he had previously defended the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> former president against claims that he did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "anything illegal or criminal" in relation to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Capitol riot. He said he was having difficulty
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintaining that position, however, particularly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after Hutchinson's testimony, which he said he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> found "eminently credible."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Because after some of the bombshells that got
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dropped in that hearing, my guess is that things
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could get very dark for the former president,"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney also said, though, that Tuesday's hearing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> revealed one real threat to Trump that didn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hinge on Hutchinson's words or credibility. "It is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the one that jumped out at me," he wrote. "And it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is the one that should most worry the former
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> president."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He referred to the evidence presented by Rep. Liz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheney of Wyoming toward the end of the hearing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consisting of two messages that January 6 panel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witnesses said they received before giving their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> depositions. The messages included allusions to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being a "team player" to "stay in the good graces
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in Trump world" as well as a reminder that Trump
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> read transcripts of interviews.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney said that the implication behind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> displaying the messages during the hearing was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "crystal clear."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "The Jan. 6 committee members believe they have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence that people within the Trump operation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attempted to intimidate witnesses," Mulvaney
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote. "And that, any way you slice it, is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obstruction of justice."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you want to bet, if Trump said he wasn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> running in 2024, this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whole witch hunt evaporates. De Santis may be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking that option away
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from him anyway.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witch-hunt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /?wiCH ?h?nt/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nounhistorical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noun: witch-hunt; plural noun: witch-hunts; noun:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witchhunt; plural noun: witchhunts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a) search for and subsequent persecution of a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supposed witch.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> b) informal: a campaign directed against a person or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> group holding unorthodox or unpopular views.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I take some exception to your use of "witch-hunt"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because of its implication of a search for something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that isn't real. In my mind, and the mind of many
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others, Trump's criminality is very real. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question is how best to prove it, and how best to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> punish it. I'm not sure it's enough to just keep him
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from running in 2024 but that's a good start. I'd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like to see his cult mystique with the right win
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sector of the Republican party totally annihilated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so that we never have to deal with his toxic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> influence again.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The whole process bothers me. Even you admit, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whole exercise is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> designed to prevent him from running again (two
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impeachments, one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after he left office and now you are hanging your hat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the 14th
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amendment)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Isn't this supposed to be up to the voters?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why are you folks so afraid of open and free elections?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would much prefer that he simply gets clobbered in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the primaries by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> margins too great to protest. De Santis is already
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chipping away at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his base.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I still believe the risks of trying to charge this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guy over bullshit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the social upheaval it might cause is not worth
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the risk for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> slim chance you can get any kind of conviction by 2024.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The court would still be hearing motions by then.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I mentioned before, Cruz is still in court for a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school shooting in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2018 and it was a slam dunk against a kid with few
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> resources to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> present a defense.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trump may be a piece of shit but he is a rich piece
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of shit who has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> always been surrounded by lawyers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Even Biden the Bozo isn't blaming Trump for much anymore.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's all "Russia, Russia, Russia".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Biden has to be a little careful or someone will point
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out Russia was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pretty quiet on Trump's watch. They got frisky during
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obama's watch
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and started a war on Biden's watch.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Putin had Trump right where he wanted him and didn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want to upset the balance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://cdn.forumcomm.com/dims4/default/cc2560c/2147483647/strip/false/crop/3259x2423+0+0/resize/1486x1105!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum-communications-production-web.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fbrightspot%2F5d%2F6e%2F99f75ab4481499aab953bee3ff59%2Fcolor-edit-toon-trump-on-nato-and-russia.jpg
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cute.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's obvious you have an intense dislike for Trump which is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understandable. Based on your many posts about him, your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dislike goes back a long ways ... back when he was in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> private business and well before he ran for and won the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Presidency.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, if you can put that intense dislike and bias aside for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a moment, do you really feel the USA is in better positions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and conditions, economically, domestically and globally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> today compared to four years ago?.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The seeds of inflation were planted on Trump's watch with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Quantitative Easing program. It helped to keep the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> economy afloat during the Covid crisis but now were paying
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the price. The same can be said for the global supply
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chain crisis. Could Trump have done anything about it if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still in office? Frankly I doubt it. He would have done a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good job of blaming it on someone else however. That's his
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> special talent. Does it not matter to you that he tried to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> overthrow an election and obstruct the peaceful transfer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of power? That is the bedrock of our democracy, and Trump
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reminds us of how fragile it can be. The vast majority of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the electorate saw through his bluff, bluster and bullshit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the 2020 election and rightfully voted him out of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> office. For better or worse Biden was the only choice. For
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that we can thank the feckless Republican party who stood
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by their flawed candidate while the ship was burning.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Obama fiscal policy rewarded his rich contributors,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bankers and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wall Street but it left the middle class suffering. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more we hear
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about who actually got the money the more pissed people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are. They are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really just scratching the surface of the massive fraud
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with a few
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> small timers who got charged. The big players who raked in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> millions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and padded their bottom line with it, like airlines are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still free to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do it again.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a hunch that history will record the Obama/Biden
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years as being
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the most corrupt in modern times.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would put the stick in the dirt when GHWB took office and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> we have
>>>>>>>>>>>>> suffered from bad leadership since. That is both on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> corporate and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> government side. The corporations adopted a 90 day window for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>>>> decision making, just trying to make good quarterly numbers, not
>>>>>>>>>>>>> really building anything and they were supported by the same
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mentality
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in Washington. It was all about how Wall Street is doing with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> no real
>>>>>>>>>>>>> concern with how things are going on Main Street, what we do
>>>>>>>>>>>>> next year
>>>>>>>>>>>>> or how we will ever service the debt they incurred. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Democrats
>>>>>>>>>>>>> embraced Rubin, Summers, Geithner and Greenspan more than the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Republicans.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> We can complain about the American oligarchs like Jobs, Bezos
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and Musk
>>>>>>>>>>>>> but at least they were building things.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Musk and Bezos are pretty frustrated with the government too.
>>>>>>>>>>>> When I think of corruption I am not thinking bad policies, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I am thinking corruption in the sense of using the power and
>>>>>>>>>>>> influence of an elected office for personal financial gains.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Biden is a perfect example of a smiling, career politician who
>>>>>>>>>>>> has his
>>>>>>>>>>>> hand out everywhere. Hunter's laptop will eventually do him in.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think GWB was corrupt in this sense. You can argue his
>>>>>>>>>>>> policies but there's no evidence anywhere of him personally
>>>>>>>>>>>> gaining by them financially, at least not by plan.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This will irk Wayne and Harry but neither did Trump.
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not irked at all, in fact I agree with you about GWB. I
>>>>>>>>>>> think the jury is still out on Biden but no one is more corrupt
>>>>>>>>>>> than Trump. It's in his genes. GWBs big failing was putting too
>>>>>>>>>>> much blind faith in Cheney and Rumsfeld..
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I think the jury may be closer to a decision on Biden than you
>>>>>>>>>> may think.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Have you followed and considered any of the Hunter laptop
>>>>>>>>>> revelations or
>>>>>>>>>> have you chosen to ignore them as most of the liberal press and
>>>>>>>>>> media
>>>>>>>>>> has?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I've mostly ignored the Hunter allegations since he's just
>>>>>>>>> leveraging his family connections like so many others. Is Joe
>>>>>>>>> responsible for the actions of his adult son? If Hunter has
>>>>>>>>> broken laws he should be prosecuted like anyone else.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If some of the allegations are true (I am not saying they *are*)
>>>>>>>> broken
>>>>>>>> laws may extend beyond Hunter. In fact, it could turn out that Hunter
>>>>>>>> technically broke no laws but if his daddy shared financially in his
>>>>>>>> business activities, especially when VP, this could become a really
>>>>>>>> big legal issue.
>>>>>>> Biden has enough juice at DoJ to have them slow walk this thing until
>>>>>>> he is out of office, then he hopes nobody will care. The media largely
>>>>>>> ignores this anyway. I suppose, if Trump is a precedent, a GOP house
>>>>>>> could still impeach him from his VP office, 10 years later.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Even in the unlikely event that Biden the senior did anything
>>>>>> illegal as VP, the statute of limitations will have long since
>>>>>> expired. Let's try to remember that this discussion is about Trump,
>>>>>> whose misdeeds are current and ongoing.  No one else in the history
>>>>>> of this country has illegally tried to stay in power after losing  a
>>>>>> presidential election.  The illegality continues as he solicits
>>>>>> millions in donations under the false pretext that the election was
>>>>>> stolen from him.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wayne said:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Let's try to remember that this discussion is about Trump, whose
>>>>>    misdeeds are current and ongoing."
>>>>>
>>>>> Given the record so far of his presidency, the discussion really
>>>>> *should* be about Biden.  He's running out of people to blame.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Because, of course, when the Obama-Biden Admin came to an end, Biden
>>>> asked his supporters to come to D.C., and plan and commit an armed
>>>> insurrection against the House of Representatives and find political
>>>> leaders and execute them.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You certainly have an imagination.  Trump did no such thing.
>>>
>>> But "the Big Guy" filled his bank accounts with his
>>> drug addict son as VP and after.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Yeah, Trump did. And Trump & Family have been filling their pockets
>> illegally for years. Ever read up about the cancer charity scam?
>

On 7/7/2022 2:10 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
> On Thu, 7 Jul 2022 10:17:12 -0400, Keyser Söze
> <KeyserSöze@whitehouse.com> wrote:
>
>> On 7/7/22 6:34 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>> On 7/6/2022 3:51 PM, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 2:20:17 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 10:49:22 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 7/6/2022 10:38 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 6:41:52 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 7/6/2022 1:42 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, July 5, 2022 at 7:13:34 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 7/4/2022 4:02 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 06:55:57 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
>>>>>>>>>>> <not...@noland.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/3/2022 8:01 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 12:19:49 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 7:00:11 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/2/2022 4:53 PM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 4:16:22 PM UTC-4,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 07:39:53 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <not...@noland.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/1/2022 4:58 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 11:56:20 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 2:27:15 PM UTC-4,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 09:33:30 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >From an op-ed article by Mick Mulvaney in USA Today:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's quite likely that Trump attempted to obstruct
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> justice, which may turn out to be the most serious,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and most provable crime he committed according to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mick Mulvaney, Director of the Office of Management
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and Budget; White House Chief of Staff.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Per Mulvaney, such claims are the threat Trump
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should be most worried about.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He also described a former White House aide's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tuesday testimony as "eminently credible."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The former acting White House chief of staff Mick
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote on Wednesday that in his view the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> real threat to former President Donald Trump was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence that might lead to accusations of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obstruction of justice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote that he had previously defended the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> former president against claims that he did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "anything illegal or criminal" in relation to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Capitol riot. He said he was having difficulty
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintaining that position, however, particularly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after Hutchinson's testimony, which he said he found
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "eminently credible."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Because after some of the bombshells that got
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dropped in that hearing, my guess is that things
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could get very dark for the former president,"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney also said, though, that Tuesday's hearing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> revealed one real threat to Trump that didn't hinge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on Hutchinson's words or credibility. "It is the one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that jumped out at me," he wrote. "And it is the one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that should most worry the former president."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He referred to the evidence presented by Rep. Liz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheney of Wyoming toward the end of the hearing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consisting of two messages that January 6 panel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witnesses said they received before giving their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> depositions. The messages included allusions to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being a "team player" to "stay in the good graces in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trump world" as well as a reminder that Trump read
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transcripts of interviews.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney said that the implication behind displaying
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the messages during the hearing was "crystal clear."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "The Jan. 6 committee members believe they have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence that people within the Trump operation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attempted to intimidate witnesses," Mulvaney wrote.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "And that, any way you slice it, is obstruction of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> justice."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you want to bet, if Trump said he wasn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> running in 2024, this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whole witch hunt evaporates. De Santis may be taking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that option away
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from him anyway.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witch-hunt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /?wiCH ?h?nt/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nounhistorical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noun: witch-hunt; plural noun: witch-hunts; noun:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witchhunt; plural noun: witchhunts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a) search for and subsequent persecution of a supposed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witch.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> b) informal: a campaign directed against a person or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> group holding unorthodox or unpopular views.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I take some exception to your use of "witch-hunt"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because of its implication of a search for something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that isn't real. In my mind, and the mind of many
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others, Trump's criminality is very real. The question
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is how best to prove it, and how best to punish it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure it's enough to just keep him from running
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in 2024 but that's a good start. I'd like to see his
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cult mystique with the right win sector of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Republican party totally annihilated so that we never
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to deal with his toxic influence again.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The whole process bothers me. Even you admit, the whole
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exercise is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> designed to prevent him from running again (two
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impeachments, one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after he left office and now you are hanging your hat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the 14th
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amendment)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Isn't this supposed to be up to the voters?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why are you folks so afraid of open and free elections?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would much prefer that he simply gets clobbered in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the primaries by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> margins too great to protest. De Santis is already
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chipping away at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his base.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I still believe the risks of trying to charge this guy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over bullshit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the social upheaval it might cause is not worth the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> risk for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> slim chance you can get any kind of conviction by 2024.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The court would still be hearing motions by then.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I mentioned before, Cruz is still in court for a school
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shooting in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2018 and it was a slam dunk against a kid with few
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> resources to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> present a defense.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trump may be a piece of shit but he is a rich piece of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shit who has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> always been surrounded by lawyers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Even Biden the Bozo isn't blaming Trump for much anymore.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's all "Russia, Russia, Russia".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Biden has to be a little careful or someone will point
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out Russia was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pretty quiet on Trump's watch. They got frisky during
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obama's watch
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and started a war on Biden's watch.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Putin had Trump right where he wanted him and didn't want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to upset the balance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://cdn.forumcomm.com/dims4/default/cc2560c/2147483647/strip/false/crop/3259x2423+0+0/resize/1486x1105!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum-communications-production-web.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fbrightspot%2F5d%2F6e%2F99f75ab4481499aab953bee3ff59%2Fcolor-edit-toon-trump-on-nato-and-russia.jpg
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cute.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's obvious you have an intense dislike for Trump which is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understandable. Based on your many posts about him, your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dislike goes back a long ways ... back when he was in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> private business and well before he ran for and won the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Presidency.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, if you can put that intense dislike and bias aside for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a moment, do you really feel the USA is in better positions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and conditions, economically, domestically and globally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> today compared to four years ago?.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The seeds of inflation were planted on Trump's watch with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Quantitative Easing program. It helped to keep the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> economy afloat during the Covid crisis but now were paying
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the price. The same can be said for the global supply chain
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> crisis. Could Trump have done anything about it if still in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> office? Frankly I doubt it. He would have done a good job of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blaming it on someone else however. That's his special
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> talent. Does it not matter to you that he tried to overthrow
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an election and obstruct the peaceful transfer of power?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is the bedrock of our democracy, and Trump reminds us
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of how fragile it can be. The vast majority of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> electorate saw through his bluff, bluster and bullshit in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 2020 election and rightfully voted him out of office.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For better or worse Biden was the only choice. For that we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can thank the feckless Republican party who stood by their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flawed candidate while the ship was burning.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Obama fiscal policy rewarded his rich contributors,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> bankers and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wall Street but it left the middle class suffering. The more
>>>>>>>>>>>>> we hear
>>>>>>>>>>>>> about who actually got the money the more pissed people are.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> They are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> really just scratching the surface of the massive fraud with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a few
>>>>>>>>>>>>> small timers who got charged. The big players who raked in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> millions
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and padded their bottom line with it, like airlines are still
>>>>>>>>>>>>> free to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> do it again.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a hunch that history will record the Obama/Biden years
>>>>>>>>>>>> as being
>>>>>>>>>>>> the most corrupt in modern times.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I would put the stick in the dirt when GHWB took office and we
>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>> suffered from bad leadership since. That is both on the
>>>>>>>>>>> corporate and
>>>>>>>>>>> government side. The corporations adopted a 90 day window for
>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>> decision making, just trying to make good quarterly numbers, not
>>>>>>>>>>> really building anything and they were supported by the same
>>>>>>>>>>> mentality
>>>>>>>>>>> in Washington. It was all about how Wall Street is doing with
>>>>>>>>>>> no real
>>>>>>>>>>> concern with how things are going on Main Street, what we do
>>>>>>>>>>> next year
>>>>>>>>>>> or how we will ever service the debt they incurred. The Democrats
>>>>>>>>>>> embraced Rubin, Summers, Geithner and Greenspan more than the
>>>>>>>>>>> Republicans.
>>>>>>>>>>> We can complain about the American oligarchs like Jobs, Bezos
>>>>>>>>>>> and Musk
>>>>>>>>>>> but at least they were building things.
>>>>>>>>>>> Musk and Bezos are pretty frustrated with the government too.
>>>>>>>>>> When I think of corruption I am not thinking bad policies, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I am thinking corruption in the sense of using the power and
>>>>>>>>>> influence of an elected office for personal financial gains.
>>>>>>>>>> Biden is a perfect example of a smiling, career politician who
>>>>>>>>>> has his
>>>>>>>>>> hand out everywhere. Hunter's laptop will eventually do him in.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I don't think GWB was corrupt in this sense. You can argue his
>>>>>>>>>> policies but there's no evidence anywhere of him personally
>>>>>>>>>> gaining by them financially, at least not by plan.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This will irk Wayne and Harry but neither did Trump.
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm not irked at all, in fact I agree with you about GWB. I think
>>>>>>>>> the jury is still out on Biden but no one is more corrupt than
>>>>>>>>> Trump. It's in his genes. GWBs big failing was putting too much
>>>>>>>>> blind faith in Cheney and Rumsfeld..
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think the jury may be closer to a decision on Biden than you may
>>>>>>>> think.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Have you followed and considered any of the Hunter laptop
>>>>>>>> revelations or
>>>>>>>> have you chosen to ignore them as most of the liberal press and media
>>>>>>>> has?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've mostly ignored the Hunter allegations since he's just
>>>>>>> leveraging his family connections like so many others. Is Joe
>>>>>>> responsible for the actions of his adult son? If Hunter has broken
>>>>>>> laws he should be prosecuted like anyone else.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If some of the allegations are true (I am not saying they *are*) broken
>>>>>> laws may extend beyond Hunter. In fact, it could turn out that Hunter
>>>>>> technically broke no laws but if his daddy shared financially in his
>>>>>> business activities, especially when VP, this could become a really
>>>>>> big legal issue.
>>>>> Biden has enough juice at DoJ to have them slow walk this thing until
>>>>> he is out of office, then he hopes nobody will care. The media largely
>>>>> ignores this anyway. I suppose, if Trump is a precedent, a GOP house
>>>>> could still impeach him from his VP office, 10 years later.
>>>>
>>>> ===
>>>>
>>>> Even in the unlikely event that Biden the senior did anything illegal
>>>> as VP, the statute of limitations will have long since expired.  Let's
>>>> try to remember that this discussion is about Trump, whose misdeeds
>>>> are current and ongoing.  No one else in the history of this country
>>>> has illegally tried to stay in power after losing  a presidential
>>>> election.  The illegality continues as he solicits millions in
>>>> donations under the false pretext that the election was stolen from him.
>>>
>>> Wayne said:
>>>
>>> "Let's try to remember that this discussion is about Trump, whose
>>>   misdeeds are current and ongoing."
>>>
>>> Given the record so far of his presidency, the discussion really
>>> *should* be about Biden.  He's running out of people to blame.
>>>
>>
>> Because, of course, when the Obama-Biden Admin came to an end, Biden
>> asked his supporters to come to D.C., and plan and commit an armed
>> insurrection against the House of Representatives and find political
>> leaders and execute them.
>
> Biden couldn't draw a big enough crowd to even scare the impotent Cap
> Po.

On Thu, 7 Jul 2022 15:21:37 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com>
wrote:

>On 7/7/2022 2:10 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>> On Thu, 7 Jul 2022 10:17:12 -0400, Keyser Söze
>> <KeyserSöze@whitehouse.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 7/7/22 6:34 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>> On 7/6/2022 3:51 PM, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 2:20:17 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 10:49:22 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 7/6/2022 10:38 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 6:41:52 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 7/6/2022 1:42 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, July 5, 2022 at 7:13:34 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/4/2022 4:02 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 06:55:57 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
>>>>>>>>>>>> <not...@noland.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/3/2022 8:01 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 12:19:49 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 7:00:11 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/2/2022 4:53 PM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 4:16:22 PM UTC-4,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 07:39:53 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <not...@noland.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/1/2022 4:58 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 11:56:20 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 2:27:15 PM UTC-4,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 09:33:30 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >From an op-ed article by Mick Mulvaney in USA Today:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's quite likely that Trump attempted to obstruct
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> justice, which may turn out to be the most serious,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and most provable crime he committed according to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mick Mulvaney, Director of the Office of Management
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and Budget; White House Chief of Staff.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Per Mulvaney, such claims are the threat Trump
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should be most worried about.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He also described a former White House aide's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tuesday testimony as "eminently credible."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The former acting White House chief of staff Mick
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote on Wednesday that in his view the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> real threat to former President Donald Trump was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence that might lead to accusations of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obstruction of justice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote that he had previously defended the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> former president against claims that he did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "anything illegal or criminal" in relation to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Capitol riot. He said he was having difficulty
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintaining that position, however, particularly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after Hutchinson's testimony, which he said he found
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "eminently credible."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Because after some of the bombshells that got
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dropped in that hearing, my guess is that things
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could get very dark for the former president,"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney also said, though, that Tuesday's hearing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> revealed one real threat to Trump that didn't hinge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on Hutchinson's words or credibility. "It is the one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that jumped out at me," he wrote. "And it is the one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that should most worry the former president."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He referred to the evidence presented by Rep. Liz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheney of Wyoming toward the end of the hearing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consisting of two messages that January 6 panel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witnesses said they received before giving their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> depositions. The messages included allusions to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being a "team player" to "stay in the good graces in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trump world" as well as a reminder that Trump read
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transcripts of interviews.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney said that the implication behind displaying
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the messages during the hearing was "crystal clear."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "The Jan. 6 committee members believe they have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence that people within the Trump operation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attempted to intimidate witnesses," Mulvaney wrote.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "And that, any way you slice it, is obstruction of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> justice."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you want to bet, if Trump said he wasn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> running in 2024, this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whole witch hunt evaporates. De Santis may be taking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that option away
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from him anyway.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witch-hunt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /?wiCH ?h?nt/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nounhistorical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noun: witch-hunt; plural noun: witch-hunts; noun:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witchhunt; plural noun: witchhunts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a) search for and subsequent persecution of a supposed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witch.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> b) informal: a campaign directed against a person or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> group holding unorthodox or unpopular views.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I take some exception to your use of "witch-hunt"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because of its implication of a search for something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that isn't real. In my mind, and the mind of many
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others, Trump's criminality is very real. The question
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is how best to prove it, and how best to punish it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure it's enough to just keep him from running
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in 2024 but that's a good start. I'd like to see his
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cult mystique with the right win sector of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Republican party totally annihilated so that we never
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to deal with his toxic influence again.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The whole process bothers me. Even you admit, the whole
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exercise is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> designed to prevent him from running again (two
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impeachments, one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after he left office and now you are hanging your hat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the 14th
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amendment)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Isn't this supposed to be up to the voters?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why are you folks so afraid of open and free elections?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would much prefer that he simply gets clobbered in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the primaries by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> margins too great to protest. De Santis is already
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chipping away at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his base.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I still believe the risks of trying to charge this guy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over bullshit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the social upheaval it might cause is not worth the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> risk for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> slim chance you can get any kind of conviction by 2024.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The court would still be hearing motions by then.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I mentioned before, Cruz is still in court for a school
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shooting in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2018 and it was a slam dunk against a kid with few
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> resources to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> present a defense.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trump may be a piece of shit but he is a rich piece of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shit who has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> always been surrounded by lawyers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Even Biden the Bozo isn't blaming Trump for much anymore.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's all "Russia, Russia, Russia".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Biden has to be a little careful or someone will point
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out Russia was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pretty quiet on Trump's watch. They got frisky during
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obama's watch
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and started a war on Biden's watch.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Putin had Trump right where he wanted him and didn't want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to upset the balance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://cdn.forumcomm.com/dims4/default/cc2560c/2147483647/strip/false/crop/3259x2423+0+0/resize/1486x1105!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum-communications-production-web.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fbrightspot%2F5d%2F6e%2F99f75ab4481499aab953bee3ff59%2Fcolor-edit-toon-trump-on-nato-and-russia.jpg
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cute.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's obvious you have an intense dislike for Trump which is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understandable. Based on your many posts about him, your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dislike goes back a long ways ... back when he was in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> private business and well before he ran for and won the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Presidency.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, if you can put that intense dislike and bias aside for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a moment, do you really feel the USA is in better positions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and conditions, economically, domestically and globally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> today compared to four years ago?.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The seeds of inflation were planted on Trump's watch with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Quantitative Easing program. It helped to keep the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> economy afloat during the Covid crisis but now were paying
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the price. The same can be said for the global supply chain
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> crisis. Could Trump have done anything about it if still in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> office? Frankly I doubt it. He would have done a good job of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blaming it on someone else however. That's his special
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> talent. Does it not matter to you that he tried to overthrow
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an election and obstruct the peaceful transfer of power?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is the bedrock of our democracy, and Trump reminds us
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of how fragile it can be. The vast majority of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> electorate saw through his bluff, bluster and bullshit in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 2020 election and rightfully voted him out of office.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For better or worse Biden was the only choice. For that we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can thank the feckless Republican party who stood by their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flawed candidate while the ship was burning.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Obama fiscal policy rewarded his rich contributors,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bankers and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wall Street but it left the middle class suffering. The more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we hear
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about who actually got the money the more pissed people are.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really just scratching the surface of the massive fraud with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a few
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> small timers who got charged. The big players who raked in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> millions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and padded their bottom line with it, like airlines are still
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> free to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do it again.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a hunch that history will record the Obama/Biden years
>>>>>>>>>>>>> as being
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the most corrupt in modern times.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I would put the stick in the dirt when GHWB took office and we
>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>> suffered from bad leadership since. That is both on the
>>>>>>>>>>>> corporate and
>>>>>>>>>>>> government side. The corporations adopted a 90 day window for
>>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>>> decision making, just trying to make good quarterly numbers, not
>>>>>>>>>>>> really building anything and they were supported by the same
>>>>>>>>>>>> mentality
>>>>>>>>>>>> in Washington. It was all about how Wall Street is doing with
>>>>>>>>>>>> no real
>>>>>>>>>>>> concern with how things are going on Main Street, what we do
>>>>>>>>>>>> next year
>>>>>>>>>>>> or how we will ever service the debt they incurred. The Democrats
>>>>>>>>>>>> embraced Rubin, Summers, Geithner and Greenspan more than the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Republicans.
>>>>>>>>>>>> We can complain about the American oligarchs like Jobs, Bezos
>>>>>>>>>>>> and Musk
>>>>>>>>>>>> but at least they were building things.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Musk and Bezos are pretty frustrated with the government too.
>>>>>>>>>>> When I think of corruption I am not thinking bad policies, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I am thinking corruption in the sense of using the power and
>>>>>>>>>>> influence of an elected office for personal financial gains.
>>>>>>>>>>> Biden is a perfect example of a smiling, career politician who
>>>>>>>>>>> has his
>>>>>>>>>>> hand out everywhere. Hunter's laptop will eventually do him in.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think GWB was corrupt in this sense. You can argue his
>>>>>>>>>>> policies but there's no evidence anywhere of him personally
>>>>>>>>>>> gaining by them financially, at least not by plan.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This will irk Wayne and Harry but neither did Trump.
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm not irked at all, in fact I agree with you about GWB. I think
>>>>>>>>>> the jury is still out on Biden but no one is more corrupt than
>>>>>>>>>> Trump. It's in his genes. GWBs big failing was putting too much
>>>>>>>>>> blind faith in Cheney and Rumsfeld..
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think the jury may be closer to a decision on Biden than you may
>>>>>>>>> think.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Have you followed and considered any of the Hunter laptop
>>>>>>>>> revelations or
>>>>>>>>> have you chosen to ignore them as most of the liberal press and media
>>>>>>>>> has?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've mostly ignored the Hunter allegations since he's just
>>>>>>>> leveraging his family connections like so many others. Is Joe
>>>>>>>> responsible for the actions of his adult son? If Hunter has broken
>>>>>>>> laws he should be prosecuted like anyone else.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If some of the allegations are true (I am not saying they *are*) broken
>>>>>>> laws may extend beyond Hunter. In fact, it could turn out that Hunter
>>>>>>> technically broke no laws but if his daddy shared financially in his
>>>>>>> business activities, especially when VP, this could become a really
>>>>>>> big legal issue.
>>>>>> Biden has enough juice at DoJ to have them slow walk this thing until
>>>>>> he is out of office, then he hopes nobody will care. The media largely
>>>>>> ignores this anyway. I suppose, if Trump is a precedent, a GOP house
>>>>>> could still impeach him from his VP office, 10 years later.
>>>>>
>>>>> ===
>>>>>
>>>>> Even in the unlikely event that Biden the senior did anything illegal
>>>>> as VP, the statute of limitations will have long since expired.  Let's
>>>>> try to remember that this discussion is about Trump, whose misdeeds
>>>>> are current and ongoing.  No one else in the history of this country
>>>>> has illegally tried to stay in power after losing  a presidential
>>>>> election.  The illegality continues as he solicits millions in
>>>>> donations under the false pretext that the election was stolen from him.
>>>>
>>>> Wayne said:
>>>>
>>>> "Let's try to remember that this discussion is about Trump, whose
>>>>   misdeeds are current and ongoing."
>>>>
>>>> Given the record so far of his presidency, the discussion really
>>>> *should* be about Biden.  He's running out of people to blame.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Because, of course, when the Obama-Biden Admin came to an end, Biden
>>> asked his supporters to come to D.C., and plan and commit an armed
>>> insurrection against the House of Representatives and find political
>>> leaders and execute them.
>>
>> Biden couldn't draw a big enough crowd to even scare the impotent Cap
>> Po.
>
>
>If Trump organized an armed insurrection on Jan 6th as Wayne and Harry
>claim why did he authorized and offer National Guard troops to assist
>Capital Police four days prior?

Mr. Luddite <nothere@noland.com> wrote:
> On 7/7/2022 10:17 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
>> On 7/7/22 6:34 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>> On 7/6/2022 3:51 PM, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 2:20:17 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 10:49:22 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 7/6/2022 10:38 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 6:41:52 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 7/6/2022 1:42 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, July 5, 2022 at 7:13:34 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 7/4/2022 4:02 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 06:55:57 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
>>>>>>>>>>> <not...@noland.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/3/2022 8:01 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 12:19:49 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 7:00:11 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/2/2022 4:53 PM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 4:16:22 PM UTC-4,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 07:39:53 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <not...@noland.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/1/2022 4:58 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 11:56:20 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 2:27:15 PM UTC-4,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 09:33:30 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From an op-ed article by Mick Mulvaney in USA Today:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's quite likely that Trump attempted to obstruct
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> justice, which may turn out to be the most serious,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and most provable crime he committed according to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mick Mulvaney, Director of the Office of Management
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and Budget; White House Chief of Staff.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Per Mulvaney, such claims are the threat Trump
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should be most worried about.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He also described a former White House aide's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tuesday testimony as "eminently credible."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The former acting White House chief of staff Mick
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote on Wednesday that in his view the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> real threat to former President Donald Trump was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence that might lead to accusations of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obstruction of justice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote that he had previously defended the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> former president against claims that he did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "anything illegal or criminal" in relation to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Capitol riot. He said he was having difficulty
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintaining that position, however, particularly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after Hutchinson's testimony, which he said he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> found "eminently credible."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Because after some of the bombshells that got
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dropped in that hearing, my guess is that things
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could get very dark for the former president,"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney also said, though, that Tuesday's hearing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> revealed one real threat to Trump that didn't hinge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on Hutchinson's words or credibility. "It is the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one that jumped out at me," he wrote. "And it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the one that should most worry the former president."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He referred to the evidence presented by Rep. Liz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheney of Wyoming toward the end of the hearing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consisting of two messages that January 6 panel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witnesses said they received before giving their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> depositions. The messages included allusions to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being a "team player" to "stay in the good graces
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in Trump world" as well as a reminder that Trump
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> read transcripts of interviews.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney said that the implication behind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> displaying the messages during the hearing was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "crystal clear."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "The Jan. 6 committee members believe they have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence that people within the Trump operation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attempted to intimidate witnesses," Mulvaney wrote.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "And that, any way you slice it, is obstruction of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> justice."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you want to bet, if Trump said he wasn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> running in 2024, this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whole witch hunt evaporates. De Santis may be taking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that option away
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from him anyway.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witch-hunt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /?wiCH ?h?nt/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nounhistorical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noun: witch-hunt; plural noun: witch-hunts; noun:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witchhunt; plural noun: witchhunts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a) search for and subsequent persecution of a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supposed witch.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> b) informal: a campaign directed against a person or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> group holding unorthodox or unpopular views.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I take some exception to your use of "witch-hunt"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because of its implication of a search for something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that isn't real. In my mind, and the mind of many
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others, Trump's criminality is very real. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question is how best to prove it, and how best to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> punish it. I'm not sure it's enough to just keep him
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from running in 2024 but that's a good start. I'd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like to see his cult mystique with the right win
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sector of the Republican party totally annihilated so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that we never have to deal with his toxic influence
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> again.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The whole process bothers me. Even you admit, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whole exercise is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> designed to prevent him from running again (two
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impeachments, one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after he left office and now you are hanging your hat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the 14th
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amendment)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Isn't this supposed to be up to the voters?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why are you folks so afraid of open and free elections?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would much prefer that he simply gets clobbered in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the primaries by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> margins too great to protest. De Santis is already
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chipping away at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his base.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I still believe the risks of trying to charge this guy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over bullshit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the social upheaval it might cause is not worth
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the risk for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> slim chance you can get any kind of conviction by 2024.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The court would still be hearing motions by then.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I mentioned before, Cruz is still in court for a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school shooting in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2018 and it was a slam dunk against a kid with few
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> resources to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> present a defense.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trump may be a piece of shit but he is a rich piece of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shit who has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> always been surrounded by lawyers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Even Biden the Bozo isn't blaming Trump for much anymore.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's all "Russia, Russia, Russia".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Biden has to be a little careful or someone will point
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out Russia was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pretty quiet on Trump's watch. They got frisky during
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obama's watch
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and started a war on Biden's watch.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Putin had Trump right where he wanted him and didn't want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to upset the balance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://cdn.forumcomm.com/dims4/default/cc2560c/2147483647/strip/false/crop/3259x2423+0+0/resize/1486x1105!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum-communications-production-web.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fbrightspot%2F5d%2F6e%2F99f75ab4481499aab953bee3ff59%2Fcolor-edit-toon-trump-on-nato-and-russia.jpg
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cute.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's obvious you have an intense dislike for Trump which is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understandable. Based on your many posts about him, your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dislike goes back a long ways ... back when he was in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> private business and well before he ran for and won the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Presidency.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, if you can put that intense dislike and bias aside for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a moment, do you really feel the USA is in better positions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and conditions, economically, domestically and globally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> today compared to four years ago?.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The seeds of inflation were planted on Trump's watch with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Quantitative Easing program. It helped to keep the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> economy afloat during the Covid crisis but now were paying
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the price. The same can be said for the global supply chain
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> crisis. Could Trump have done anything about it if still in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> office? Frankly I doubt it. He would have done a good job
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of blaming it on someone else however. That's his special
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> talent. Does it not matter to you that he tried to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> overthrow an election and obstruct the peaceful transfer of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> power? That is the bedrock of our democracy, and Trump
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reminds us of how fragile it can be. The vast majority of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the electorate saw through his bluff, bluster and bullshit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the 2020 election and rightfully voted him out of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> office. For better or worse Biden was the only choice. For
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that we can thank the feckless Republican party who stood
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by their flawed candidate while the ship was burning.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Obama fiscal policy rewarded his rich contributors,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> bankers and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wall Street but it left the middle class suffering. The more
>>>>>>>>>>>>> we hear
>>>>>>>>>>>>> about who actually got the money the more pissed people are.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> They are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> really just scratching the surface of the massive fraud with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a few
>>>>>>>>>>>>> small timers who got charged. The big players who raked in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> millions
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and padded their bottom line with it, like airlines are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> still free to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> do it again.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a hunch that history will record the Obama/Biden years
>>>>>>>>>>>> as being
>>>>>>>>>>>> the most corrupt in modern times.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I would put the stick in the dirt when GHWB took office and we
>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>> suffered from bad leadership since. That is both on the
>>>>>>>>>>> corporate and
>>>>>>>>>>> government side. The corporations adopted a 90 day window for
>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>> decision making, just trying to make good quarterly numbers, not
>>>>>>>>>>> really building anything and they were supported by the same
>>>>>>>>>>> mentality
>>>>>>>>>>> in Washington. It was all about how Wall Street is doing with
>>>>>>>>>>> no real
>>>>>>>>>>> concern with how things are going on Main Street, what we do
>>>>>>>>>>> next year
>>>>>>>>>>> or how we will ever service the debt they incurred. The Democrats
>>>>>>>>>>> embraced Rubin, Summers, Geithner and Greenspan more than the
>>>>>>>>>>> Republicans.
>>>>>>>>>>> We can complain about the American oligarchs like Jobs, Bezos
>>>>>>>>>>> and Musk
>>>>>>>>>>> but at least they were building things.
>>>>>>>>>>> Musk and Bezos are pretty frustrated with the government too.
>>>>>>>>>> When I think of corruption I am not thinking bad policies, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I am thinking corruption in the sense of using the power and
>>>>>>>>>> influence of an elected office for personal financial gains.
>>>>>>>>>> Biden is a perfect example of a smiling, career politician who
>>>>>>>>>> has his
>>>>>>>>>> hand out everywhere. Hunter's laptop will eventually do him in.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I don't think GWB was corrupt in this sense. You can argue his
>>>>>>>>>> policies but there's no evidence anywhere of him personally
>>>>>>>>>> gaining by them financially, at least not by plan.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This will irk Wayne and Harry but neither did Trump.
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm not irked at all, in fact I agree with you about GWB. I
>>>>>>>>> think the jury is still out on Biden but no one is more corrupt
>>>>>>>>> than Trump. It's in his genes. GWBs big failing was putting too
>>>>>>>>> much blind faith in Cheney and Rumsfeld..
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think the jury may be closer to a decision on Biden than you
>>>>>>>> may think.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Have you followed and considered any of the Hunter laptop
>>>>>>>> revelations or
>>>>>>>> have you chosen to ignore them as most of the liberal press and
>>>>>>>> media
>>>>>>>> has?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've mostly ignored the Hunter allegations since he's just
>>>>>>> leveraging his family connections like so many others. Is Joe
>>>>>>> responsible for the actions of his adult son? If Hunter has broken
>>>>>>> laws he should be prosecuted like anyone else.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If some of the allegations are true (I am not saying they *are*)
>>>>>> broken
>>>>>> laws may extend beyond Hunter. In fact, it could turn out that Hunter
>>>>>> technically broke no laws but if his daddy shared financially in his
>>>>>> business activities, especially when VP, this could become a really
>>>>>> big legal issue.
>>>>> Biden has enough juice at DoJ to have them slow walk this thing until
>>>>> he is out of office, then he hopes nobody will care. The media largely
>>>>> ignores this anyway. I suppose, if Trump is a precedent, a GOP house
>>>>> could still impeach him from his VP office, 10 years later.
>>>>
>>>> ===
>>>>
>>>> Even in the unlikely event that Biden the senior did anything illegal
>>>> as VP, the statute of limitations will have long since expired.
>>>> Let's try to remember that this discussion is about Trump, whose
>>>> misdeeds are current and ongoing.  No one else in the history of this
>>>> country has illegally tried to stay in power after losing  a
>>>> presidential election.  The illegality continues as he solicits
>>>> millions in donations under the false pretext that the election was
>>>> stolen from him.
>>>
>>> Wayne said:
>>>
>>> "Let's try to remember that this discussion is about Trump, whose
>>>    misdeeds are current and ongoing."
>>>
>>> Given the record so far of his presidency, the discussion really
>>> *should* be about Biden.  He's running out of people to blame.
>>>
>>
>> Because, of course, when the Obama-Biden Admin came to an end, Biden
>> asked his supporters to come to D.C., and plan and commit an armed
>> insurrection against the House of Representatives and find political
>> leaders and execute them.
>>
>
>
> You certainly have an imagination. Trump did no such thing.
>
> But "the Big Guy" filled his bank accounts with his
> drug addict son as VP and after.
>
>
>

Mr. Luddite <nothere@noland.com> wrote:
> On 7/7/2022 2:10 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>> On Thu, 7 Jul 2022 10:17:12 -0400, Keyser Söze
>> <KeyserSöze@whitehouse.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 7/7/22 6:34 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>> On 7/6/2022 3:51 PM, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 2:20:17 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 10:49:22 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 7/6/2022 10:38 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 6:41:52 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 7/6/2022 1:42 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, July 5, 2022 at 7:13:34 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/4/2022 4:02 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 06:55:57 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
>>>>>>>>>>>> <not...@noland.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/3/2022 8:01 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 12:19:49 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 7:00:11 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/2/2022 4:53 PM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 4:16:22 PM UTC-4,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 07:39:53 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <not...@noland.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/1/2022 4:58 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 11:56:20 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 2:27:15 PM UTC-4,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 09:33:30 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From an op-ed article by Mick Mulvaney in USA Today:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's quite likely that Trump attempted to obstruct
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> justice, which may turn out to be the most serious,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and most provable crime he committed according to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mick Mulvaney, Director of the Office of Management
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and Budget; White House Chief of Staff.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Per Mulvaney, such claims are the threat Trump
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should be most worried about.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He also described a former White House aide's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tuesday testimony as "eminently credible."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The former acting White House chief of staff Mick
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote on Wednesday that in his view the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> real threat to former President Donald Trump was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence that might lead to accusations of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obstruction of justice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote that he had previously defended the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> former president against claims that he did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "anything illegal or criminal" in relation to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Capitol riot. He said he was having difficulty
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintaining that position, however, particularly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after Hutchinson's testimony, which he said he found
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "eminently credible."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Because after some of the bombshells that got
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dropped in that hearing, my guess is that things
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could get very dark for the former president,"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney also said, though, that Tuesday's hearing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> revealed one real threat to Trump that didn't hinge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on Hutchinson's words or credibility. "It is the one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that jumped out at me," he wrote. "And it is the one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that should most worry the former president."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He referred to the evidence presented by Rep. Liz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheney of Wyoming toward the end of the hearing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consisting of two messages that January 6 panel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witnesses said they received before giving their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> depositions. The messages included allusions to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being a "team player" to "stay in the good graces in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trump world" as well as a reminder that Trump read
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transcripts of interviews.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney said that the implication behind displaying
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the messages during the hearing was "crystal clear."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "The Jan. 6 committee members believe they have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence that people within the Trump operation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attempted to intimidate witnesses," Mulvaney wrote.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "And that, any way you slice it, is obstruction of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> justice."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you want to bet, if Trump said he wasn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> running in 2024, this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whole witch hunt evaporates. De Santis may be taking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that option away
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from him anyway.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witch-hunt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /?wiCH ?h?nt/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nounhistorical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noun: witch-hunt; plural noun: witch-hunts; noun:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witchhunt; plural noun: witchhunts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a) search for and subsequent persecution of a supposed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witch.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> b) informal: a campaign directed against a person or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> group holding unorthodox or unpopular views.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I take some exception to your use of "witch-hunt"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because of its implication of a search for something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that isn't real. In my mind, and the mind of many
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others, Trump's criminality is very real. The question
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is how best to prove it, and how best to punish it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure it's enough to just keep him from running
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in 2024 but that's a good start. I'd like to see his
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cult mystique with the right win sector of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Republican party totally annihilated so that we never
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to deal with his toxic influence again.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The whole process bothers me. Even you admit, the whole
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exercise is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> designed to prevent him from running again (two
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impeachments, one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after he left office and now you are hanging your hat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the 14th
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amendment)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Isn't this supposed to be up to the voters?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why are you folks so afraid of open and free elections?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would much prefer that he simply gets clobbered in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the primaries by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> margins too great to protest. De Santis is already
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chipping away at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his base.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I still believe the risks of trying to charge this guy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over bullshit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the social upheaval it might cause is not worth the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> risk for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> slim chance you can get any kind of conviction by 2024.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The court would still be hearing motions by then.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I mentioned before, Cruz is still in court for a school
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shooting in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2018 and it was a slam dunk against a kid with few
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> resources to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> present a defense.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trump may be a piece of shit but he is a rich piece of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shit who has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> always been surrounded by lawyers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Even Biden the Bozo isn't blaming Trump for much anymore.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's all "Russia, Russia, Russia".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Biden has to be a little careful or someone will point
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out Russia was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pretty quiet on Trump's watch. They got frisky during
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obama's watch
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and started a war on Biden's watch.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Putin had Trump right where he wanted him and didn't want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to upset the balance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://cdn.forumcomm.com/dims4/default/cc2560c/2147483647/strip/false/crop/3259x2423+0+0/resize/1486x1105!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum-communications-production-web.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fbrightspot%2F5d%2F6e%2F99f75ab4481499aab953bee3ff59%2Fcolor-edit-toon-trump-on-nato-and-russia.jpg
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cute.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's obvious you have an intense dislike for Trump which is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understandable. Based on your many posts about him, your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dislike goes back a long ways ... back when he was in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> private business and well before he ran for and won the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Presidency.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, if you can put that intense dislike and bias aside for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a moment, do you really feel the USA is in better positions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and conditions, economically, domestically and globally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> today compared to four years ago?.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The seeds of inflation were planted on Trump's watch with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Quantitative Easing program. It helped to keep the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> economy afloat during the Covid crisis but now were paying
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the price. The same can be said for the global supply chain
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> crisis. Could Trump have done anything about it if still in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> office? Frankly I doubt it. He would have done a good job of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blaming it on someone else however. That's his special
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> talent. Does it not matter to you that he tried to overthrow
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an election and obstruct the peaceful transfer of power?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is the bedrock of our democracy, and Trump reminds us
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of how fragile it can be. The vast majority of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> electorate saw through his bluff, bluster and bullshit in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 2020 election and rightfully voted him out of office.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For better or worse Biden was the only choice. For that we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can thank the feckless Republican party who stood by their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flawed candidate while the ship was burning.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Obama fiscal policy rewarded his rich contributors,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bankers and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wall Street but it left the middle class suffering. The more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we hear
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about who actually got the money the more pissed people are.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really just scratching the surface of the massive fraud with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a few
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> small timers who got charged. The big players who raked in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> millions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and padded their bottom line with it, like airlines are still
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> free to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do it again.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a hunch that history will record the Obama/Biden years
>>>>>>>>>>>>> as being
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the most corrupt in modern times.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I would put the stick in the dirt when GHWB took office and we
>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>> suffered from bad leadership since. That is both on the
>>>>>>>>>>>> corporate and
>>>>>>>>>>>> government side. The corporations adopted a 90 day window for
>>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>>> decision making, just trying to make good quarterly numbers, not
>>>>>>>>>>>> really building anything and they were supported by the same
>>>>>>>>>>>> mentality
>>>>>>>>>>>> in Washington. It was all about how Wall Street is doing with
>>>>>>>>>>>> no real
>>>>>>>>>>>> concern with how things are going on Main Street, what we do
>>>>>>>>>>>> next year
>>>>>>>>>>>> or how we will ever service the debt they incurred. The Democrats
>>>>>>>>>>>> embraced Rubin, Summers, Geithner and Greenspan more than the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Republicans.
>>>>>>>>>>>> We can complain about the American oligarchs like Jobs, Bezos
>>>>>>>>>>>> and Musk
>>>>>>>>>>>> but at least they were building things.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Musk and Bezos are pretty frustrated with the government too.
>>>>>>>>>>> When I think of corruption I am not thinking bad policies, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I am thinking corruption in the sense of using the power and
>>>>>>>>>>> influence of an elected office for personal financial gains.
>>>>>>>>>>> Biden is a perfect example of a smiling, career politician who
>>>>>>>>>>> has his
>>>>>>>>>>> hand out everywhere. Hunter's laptop will eventually do him in.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think GWB was corrupt in this sense. You can argue his
>>>>>>>>>>> policies but there's no evidence anywhere of him personally
>>>>>>>>>>> gaining by them financially, at least not by plan.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This will irk Wayne and Harry but neither did Trump.
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm not irked at all, in fact I agree with you about GWB. I think
>>>>>>>>>> the jury is still out on Biden but no one is more corrupt than
>>>>>>>>>> Trump. It's in his genes. GWBs big failing was putting too much
>>>>>>>>>> blind faith in Cheney and Rumsfeld..
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think the jury may be closer to a decision on Biden than you may
>>>>>>>>> think.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Have you followed and considered any of the Hunter laptop
>>>>>>>>> revelations or
>>>>>>>>> have you chosen to ignore them as most of the liberal press and media
>>>>>>>>> has?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've mostly ignored the Hunter allegations since he's just
>>>>>>>> leveraging his family connections like so many others. Is Joe
>>>>>>>> responsible for the actions of his adult son? If Hunter has broken
>>>>>>>> laws he should be prosecuted like anyone else.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If some of the allegations are true (I am not saying they *are*) broken
>>>>>>> laws may extend beyond Hunter. In fact, it could turn out that Hunter
>>>>>>> technically broke no laws but if his daddy shared financially in his
>>>>>>> business activities, especially when VP, this could become a really
>>>>>>> big legal issue.
>>>>>> Biden has enough juice at DoJ to have them slow walk this thing until
>>>>>> he is out of office, then he hopes nobody will care. The media largely
>>>>>> ignores this anyway. I suppose, if Trump is a precedent, a GOP house
>>>>>> could still impeach him from his VP office, 10 years later.
>>>>>
>>>>> ===
>>>>>
>>>>> Even in the unlikely event that Biden the senior did anything illegal
>>>>> as VP, the statute of limitations will have long since expired.  Let's
>>>>> try to remember that this discussion is about Trump, whose misdeeds
>>>>> are current and ongoing.  No one else in the history of this country
>>>>> has illegally tried to stay in power after losing  a presidential
>>>>> election.  The illegality continues as he solicits millions in
>>>>> donations under the false pretext that the election was stolen from him.
>>>>
>>>> Wayne said:
>>>>
>>>> "Let's try to remember that this discussion is about Trump, whose
>>>>   misdeeds are current and ongoing."
>>>>
>>>> Given the record so far of his presidency, the discussion really
>>>> *should* be about Biden.  He's running out of people to blame.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Because, of course, when the Obama-Biden Admin came to an end, Biden
>>> asked his supporters to come to D.C., and plan and commit an armed
>>> insurrection against the House of Representatives and find political
>>> leaders and execute them.
>>
>> Biden couldn't draw a big enough crowd to even scare the impotent Cap
>> Po.
>
>
> If Trump organized an armed insurrection on Jan 6th as Wayne and Harry
> claim why did he authorized and offer National Guard troops to assist
> Capital Police four days prior?
>

On 7/7/22 2:10 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
> On Thu, 7 Jul 2022 10:17:12 -0400, Keyser Söze
> <KeyserSöze@whitehouse.com> wrote:
>
>> On 7/7/22 6:34 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>> On 7/6/2022 3:51 PM, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 2:20:17 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 10:49:22 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 7/6/2022 10:38 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 6:41:52 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 7/6/2022 1:42 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, July 5, 2022 at 7:13:34 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 7/4/2022 4:02 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 06:55:57 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
>>>>>>>>>>> <not...@noland.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/3/2022 8:01 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 12:19:49 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 7:00:11 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/2/2022 4:53 PM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 4:16:22 PM UTC-4,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 07:39:53 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <not...@noland.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/1/2022 4:58 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 11:56:20 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 2:27:15 PM UTC-4,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 09:33:30 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >From an op-ed article by Mick Mulvaney in USA Today:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's quite likely that Trump attempted to obstruct
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> justice, which may turn out to be the most serious,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and most provable crime he committed according to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mick Mulvaney, Director of the Office of Management
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and Budget; White House Chief of Staff.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Per Mulvaney, such claims are the threat Trump
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should be most worried about.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He also described a former White House aide's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tuesday testimony as "eminently credible."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The former acting White House chief of staff Mick
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote on Wednesday that in his view the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> real threat to former President Donald Trump was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence that might lead to accusations of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obstruction of justice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote that he had previously defended the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> former president against claims that he did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "anything illegal or criminal" in relation to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Capitol riot. He said he was having difficulty
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintaining that position, however, particularly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after Hutchinson's testimony, which he said he found
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "eminently credible."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Because after some of the bombshells that got
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dropped in that hearing, my guess is that things
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could get very dark for the former president,"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney also said, though, that Tuesday's hearing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> revealed one real threat to Trump that didn't hinge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on Hutchinson's words or credibility. "It is the one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that jumped out at me," he wrote. "And it is the one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that should most worry the former president."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He referred to the evidence presented by Rep. Liz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheney of Wyoming toward the end of the hearing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consisting of two messages that January 6 panel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witnesses said they received before giving their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> depositions. The messages included allusions to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being a "team player" to "stay in the good graces in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trump world" as well as a reminder that Trump read
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transcripts of interviews.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney said that the implication behind displaying
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the messages during the hearing was "crystal clear."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "The Jan. 6 committee members believe they have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence that people within the Trump operation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attempted to intimidate witnesses," Mulvaney wrote.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "And that, any way you slice it, is obstruction of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> justice."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you want to bet, if Trump said he wasn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> running in 2024, this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whole witch hunt evaporates. De Santis may be taking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that option away
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from him anyway.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witch-hunt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /?wiCH ?h?nt/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nounhistorical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noun: witch-hunt; plural noun: witch-hunts; noun:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witchhunt; plural noun: witchhunts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a) search for and subsequent persecution of a supposed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witch.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> b) informal: a campaign directed against a person or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> group holding unorthodox or unpopular views.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I take some exception to your use of "witch-hunt"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because of its implication of a search for something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that isn't real. In my mind, and the mind of many
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others, Trump's criminality is very real. The question
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is how best to prove it, and how best to punish it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure it's enough to just keep him from running
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in 2024 but that's a good start. I'd like to see his
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cult mystique with the right win sector of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Republican party totally annihilated so that we never
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to deal with his toxic influence again.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The whole process bothers me. Even you admit, the whole
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exercise is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> designed to prevent him from running again (two
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impeachments, one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after he left office and now you are hanging your hat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the 14th
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amendment)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Isn't this supposed to be up to the voters?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why are you folks so afraid of open and free elections?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would much prefer that he simply gets clobbered in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the primaries by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> margins too great to protest. De Santis is already
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chipping away at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his base.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I still believe the risks of trying to charge this guy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over bullshit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the social upheaval it might cause is not worth the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> risk for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> slim chance you can get any kind of conviction by 2024.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The court would still be hearing motions by then.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I mentioned before, Cruz is still in court for a school
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shooting in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2018 and it was a slam dunk against a kid with few
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> resources to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> present a defense.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trump may be a piece of shit but he is a rich piece of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shit who has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> always been surrounded by lawyers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Even Biden the Bozo isn't blaming Trump for much anymore.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's all "Russia, Russia, Russia".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Biden has to be a little careful or someone will point
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out Russia was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pretty quiet on Trump's watch. They got frisky during
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obama's watch
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and started a war on Biden's watch.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Putin had Trump right where he wanted him and didn't want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to upset the balance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://cdn.forumcomm.com/dims4/default/cc2560c/2147483647/strip/false/crop/3259x2423+0+0/resize/1486x1105!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum-communications-production-web.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fbrightspot%2F5d%2F6e%2F99f75ab4481499aab953bee3ff59%2Fcolor-edit-toon-trump-on-nato-and-russia.jpg
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cute.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's obvious you have an intense dislike for Trump which is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understandable. Based on your many posts about him, your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dislike goes back a long ways ... back when he was in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> private business and well before he ran for and won the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Presidency.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, if you can put that intense dislike and bias aside for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a moment, do you really feel the USA is in better positions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and conditions, economically, domestically and globally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> today compared to four years ago?.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The seeds of inflation were planted on Trump's watch with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Quantitative Easing program. It helped to keep the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> economy afloat during the Covid crisis but now were paying
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the price. The same can be said for the global supply chain
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> crisis. Could Trump have done anything about it if still in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> office? Frankly I doubt it. He would have done a good job of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blaming it on someone else however. That's his special
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> talent. Does it not matter to you that he tried to overthrow
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an election and obstruct the peaceful transfer of power?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is the bedrock of our democracy, and Trump reminds us
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of how fragile it can be. The vast majority of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> electorate saw through his bluff, bluster and bullshit in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 2020 election and rightfully voted him out of office.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For better or worse Biden was the only choice. For that we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can thank the feckless Republican party who stood by their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flawed candidate while the ship was burning.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Obama fiscal policy rewarded his rich contributors,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> bankers and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wall Street but it left the middle class suffering. The more
>>>>>>>>>>>>> we hear
>>>>>>>>>>>>> about who actually got the money the more pissed people are.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> They are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> really just scratching the surface of the massive fraud with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a few
>>>>>>>>>>>>> small timers who got charged. The big players who raked in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> millions
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and padded their bottom line with it, like airlines are still
>>>>>>>>>>>>> free to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> do it again.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a hunch that history will record the Obama/Biden years
>>>>>>>>>>>> as being
>>>>>>>>>>>> the most corrupt in modern times.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I would put the stick in the dirt when GHWB took office and we
>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>> suffered from bad leadership since. That is both on the
>>>>>>>>>>> corporate and
>>>>>>>>>>> government side. The corporations adopted a 90 day window for
>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>> decision making, just trying to make good quarterly numbers, not
>>>>>>>>>>> really building anything and they were supported by the same
>>>>>>>>>>> mentality
>>>>>>>>>>> in Washington. It was all about how Wall Street is doing with
>>>>>>>>>>> no real
>>>>>>>>>>> concern with how things are going on Main Street, what we do
>>>>>>>>>>> next year
>>>>>>>>>>> or how we will ever service the debt they incurred. The Democrats
>>>>>>>>>>> embraced Rubin, Summers, Geithner and Greenspan more than the
>>>>>>>>>>> Republicans.
>>>>>>>>>>> We can complain about the American oligarchs like Jobs, Bezos
>>>>>>>>>>> and Musk
>>>>>>>>>>> but at least they were building things.
>>>>>>>>>>> Musk and Bezos are pretty frustrated with the government too.
>>>>>>>>>> When I think of corruption I am not thinking bad policies, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I am thinking corruption in the sense of using the power and
>>>>>>>>>> influence of an elected office for personal financial gains.
>>>>>>>>>> Biden is a perfect example of a smiling, career politician who
>>>>>>>>>> has his
>>>>>>>>>> hand out everywhere. Hunter's laptop will eventually do him in.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I don't think GWB was corrupt in this sense. You can argue his
>>>>>>>>>> policies but there's no evidence anywhere of him personally
>>>>>>>>>> gaining by them financially, at least not by plan.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This will irk Wayne and Harry but neither did Trump.
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm not irked at all, in fact I agree with you about GWB. I think
>>>>>>>>> the jury is still out on Biden but no one is more corrupt than
>>>>>>>>> Trump. It's in his genes. GWBs big failing was putting too much
>>>>>>>>> blind faith in Cheney and Rumsfeld..
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think the jury may be closer to a decision on Biden than you may
>>>>>>>> think.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Have you followed and considered any of the Hunter laptop
>>>>>>>> revelations or
>>>>>>>> have you chosen to ignore them as most of the liberal press and media
>>>>>>>> has?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've mostly ignored the Hunter allegations since he's just
>>>>>>> leveraging his family connections like so many others. Is Joe
>>>>>>> responsible for the actions of his adult son? If Hunter has broken
>>>>>>> laws he should be prosecuted like anyone else.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If some of the allegations are true (I am not saying they *are*) broken
>>>>>> laws may extend beyond Hunter. In fact, it could turn out that Hunter
>>>>>> technically broke no laws but if his daddy shared financially in his
>>>>>> business activities, especially when VP, this could become a really
>>>>>> big legal issue.
>>>>> Biden has enough juice at DoJ to have them slow walk this thing until
>>>>> he is out of office, then he hopes nobody will care. The media largely
>>>>> ignores this anyway. I suppose, if Trump is a precedent, a GOP house
>>>>> could still impeach him from his VP office, 10 years later.
>>>>
>>>> ===
>>>>
>>>> Even in the unlikely event that Biden the senior did anything illegal
>>>> as VP, the statute of limitations will have long since expired.  Let's
>>>> try to remember that this discussion is about Trump, whose misdeeds
>>>> are current and ongoing.  No one else in the history of this country
>>>> has illegally tried to stay in power after losing  a presidential
>>>> election.  The illegality continues as he solicits millions in
>>>> donations under the false pretext that the election was stolen from him.
>>>
>>> Wayne said:
>>>
>>> "Let's try to remember that this discussion is about Trump, whose
>>>   misdeeds are current and ongoing."
>>>
>>> Given the record so far of his presidency, the discussion really
>>> *should* be about Biden.  He's running out of people to blame.
>>>
>>
>> Because, of course, when the Obama-Biden Admin came to an end, Biden
>> asked his supporters to come to D.C., and plan and commit an armed
>> insurrection against the House of Representatives and find political
>> leaders and execute them.
>
> Biden couldn't draw a big enough crowd to even scare the impotent Cap
> Po.
He drew big enough crowds to beat the Orange Pig. +

On Thu, 7 Jul 2022 20:53:40 -0000 (UTC), Keyser Soze
<keysersoze@whitehouse.com> wrote:

>Mr. Luddite <nothere@noland.com> wrote:
>> On 7/7/2022 2:10 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>> On Thu, 7 Jul 2022 10:17:12 -0400, Keyser Söze
>>> <KeyserSöze@whitehouse.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 7/7/22 6:34 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>> On 7/6/2022 3:51 PM, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 2:20:17 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 10:49:22 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 7/6/2022 10:38 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 6:41:52 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 7/6/2022 1:42 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, July 5, 2022 at 7:13:34 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/4/2022 4:02 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 06:55:57 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <not...@noland.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/3/2022 8:01 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 12:19:49 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 7:00:11 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/2/2022 4:53 PM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 4:16:22 PM UTC-4,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 07:39:53 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <not...@noland.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/1/2022 4:58 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 11:56:20 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 2:27:15 PM UTC-4,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 09:33:30 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From an op-ed article by Mick Mulvaney in USA Today:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's quite likely that Trump attempted to obstruct
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> justice, which may turn out to be the most serious,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and most provable crime he committed according to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mick Mulvaney, Director of the Office of Management
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and Budget; White House Chief of Staff.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Per Mulvaney, such claims are the threat Trump
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should be most worried about.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He also described a former White House aide's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tuesday testimony as "eminently credible."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The former acting White House chief of staff Mick
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote on Wednesday that in his view the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> real threat to former President Donald Trump was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence that might lead to accusations of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obstruction of justice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote that he had previously defended the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> former president against claims that he did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "anything illegal or criminal" in relation to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Capitol riot. He said he was having difficulty
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintaining that position, however, particularly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after Hutchinson's testimony, which he said he found
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "eminently credible."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Because after some of the bombshells that got
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dropped in that hearing, my guess is that things
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could get very dark for the former president,"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney also said, though, that Tuesday's hearing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> revealed one real threat to Trump that didn't hinge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on Hutchinson's words or credibility. "It is the one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that jumped out at me," he wrote. "And it is the one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that should most worry the former president."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He referred to the evidence presented by Rep. Liz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheney of Wyoming toward the end of the hearing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consisting of two messages that January 6 panel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witnesses said they received before giving their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> depositions. The messages included allusions to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being a "team player" to "stay in the good graces in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trump world" as well as a reminder that Trump read
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transcripts of interviews.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney said that the implication behind displaying
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the messages during the hearing was "crystal clear."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "The Jan. 6 committee members believe they have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence that people within the Trump operation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attempted to intimidate witnesses," Mulvaney wrote.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "And that, any way you slice it, is obstruction of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> justice."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you want to bet, if Trump said he wasn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> running in 2024, this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whole witch hunt evaporates. De Santis may be taking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that option away
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from him anyway.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witch-hunt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /?wiCH ?h?nt/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nounhistorical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noun: witch-hunt; plural noun: witch-hunts; noun:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witchhunt; plural noun: witchhunts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a) search for and subsequent persecution of a supposed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witch.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> b) informal: a campaign directed against a person or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> group holding unorthodox or unpopular views.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I take some exception to your use of "witch-hunt"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because of its implication of a search for something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that isn't real. In my mind, and the mind of many
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others, Trump's criminality is very real. The question
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is how best to prove it, and how best to punish it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure it's enough to just keep him from running
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in 2024 but that's a good start. I'd like to see his
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cult mystique with the right win sector of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Republican party totally annihilated so that we never
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to deal with his toxic influence again.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The whole process bothers me. Even you admit, the whole
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exercise is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> designed to prevent him from running again (two
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impeachments, one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after he left office and now you are hanging your hat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the 14th
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amendment)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Isn't this supposed to be up to the voters?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why are you folks so afraid of open and free elections?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would much prefer that he simply gets clobbered in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the primaries by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> margins too great to protest. De Santis is already
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chipping away at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his base.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I still believe the risks of trying to charge this guy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over bullshit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the social upheaval it might cause is not worth the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> risk for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> slim chance you can get any kind of conviction by 2024.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The court would still be hearing motions by then.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I mentioned before, Cruz is still in court for a school
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shooting in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2018 and it was a slam dunk against a kid with few
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> resources to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> present a defense.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trump may be a piece of shit but he is a rich piece of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shit who has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> always been surrounded by lawyers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Even Biden the Bozo isn't blaming Trump for much anymore.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's all "Russia, Russia, Russia".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Biden has to be a little careful or someone will point
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out Russia was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pretty quiet on Trump's watch. They got frisky during
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obama's watch
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and started a war on Biden's watch.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Putin had Trump right where he wanted him and didn't want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to upset the balance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://cdn.forumcomm.com/dims4/default/cc2560c/2147483647/strip/false/crop/3259x2423+0+0/resize/1486x1105!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum-communications-production-web.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fbrightspot%2F5d%2F6e%2F99f75ab4481499aab953bee3ff59%2Fcolor-edit-toon-trump-on-nato-and-russia.jpg
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cute.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's obvious you have an intense dislike for Trump which is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understandable. Based on your many posts about him, your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dislike goes back a long ways ... back when he was in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> private business and well before he ran for and won the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Presidency.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, if you can put that intense dislike and bias aside for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a moment, do you really feel the USA is in better positions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and conditions, economically, domestically and globally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> today compared to four years ago?.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The seeds of inflation were planted on Trump's watch with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Quantitative Easing program. It helped to keep the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> economy afloat during the Covid crisis but now were paying
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the price. The same can be said for the global supply chain
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> crisis. Could Trump have done anything about it if still in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> office? Frankly I doubt it. He would have done a good job of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blaming it on someone else however. That's his special
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> talent. Does it not matter to you that he tried to overthrow
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an election and obstruct the peaceful transfer of power?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is the bedrock of our democracy, and Trump reminds us
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of how fragile it can be. The vast majority of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> electorate saw through his bluff, bluster and bullshit in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 2020 election and rightfully voted him out of office.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For better or worse Biden was the only choice. For that we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can thank the feckless Republican party who stood by their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flawed candidate while the ship was burning.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Obama fiscal policy rewarded his rich contributors,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bankers and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wall Street but it left the middle class suffering. The more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we hear
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about who actually got the money the more pissed people are.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really just scratching the surface of the massive fraud with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a few
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> small timers who got charged. The big players who raked in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> millions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and padded their bottom line with it, like airlines are still
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> free to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do it again.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a hunch that history will record the Obama/Biden years
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as being
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the most corrupt in modern times.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would put the stick in the dirt when GHWB took office and we
>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>> suffered from bad leadership since. That is both on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> corporate and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> government side. The corporations adopted a 90 day window for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>>>> decision making, just trying to make good quarterly numbers, not
>>>>>>>>>>>>> really building anything and they were supported by the same
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mentality
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in Washington. It was all about how Wall Street is doing with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> no real
>>>>>>>>>>>>> concern with how things are going on Main Street, what we do
>>>>>>>>>>>>> next year
>>>>>>>>>>>>> or how we will ever service the debt they incurred. The Democrats
>>>>>>>>>>>>> embraced Rubin, Summers, Geithner and Greenspan more than the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Republicans.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> We can complain about the American oligarchs like Jobs, Bezos
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and Musk
>>>>>>>>>>>>> but at least they were building things.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Musk and Bezos are pretty frustrated with the government too.
>>>>>>>>>>>> When I think of corruption I am not thinking bad policies, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I am thinking corruption in the sense of using the power and
>>>>>>>>>>>> influence of an elected office for personal financial gains.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Biden is a perfect example of a smiling, career politician who
>>>>>>>>>>>> has his
>>>>>>>>>>>> hand out everywhere. Hunter's laptop will eventually do him in.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think GWB was corrupt in this sense. You can argue his
>>>>>>>>>>>> policies but there's no evidence anywhere of him personally
>>>>>>>>>>>> gaining by them financially, at least not by plan.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This will irk Wayne and Harry but neither did Trump.
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not irked at all, in fact I agree with you about GWB. I think
>>>>>>>>>>> the jury is still out on Biden but no one is more corrupt than
>>>>>>>>>>> Trump. It's in his genes. GWBs big failing was putting too much
>>>>>>>>>>> blind faith in Cheney and Rumsfeld..
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I think the jury may be closer to a decision on Biden than you may
>>>>>>>>>> think.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Have you followed and considered any of the Hunter laptop
>>>>>>>>>> revelations or
>>>>>>>>>> have you chosen to ignore them as most of the liberal press and media
>>>>>>>>>> has?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I've mostly ignored the Hunter allegations since he's just
>>>>>>>>> leveraging his family connections like so many others. Is Joe
>>>>>>>>> responsible for the actions of his adult son? If Hunter has broken
>>>>>>>>> laws he should be prosecuted like anyone else.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If some of the allegations are true (I am not saying they *are*) broken
>>>>>>>> laws may extend beyond Hunter. In fact, it could turn out that Hunter
>>>>>>>> technically broke no laws but if his daddy shared financially in his
>>>>>>>> business activities, especially when VP, this could become a really
>>>>>>>> big legal issue.
>>>>>>> Biden has enough juice at DoJ to have them slow walk this thing until
>>>>>>> he is out of office, then he hopes nobody will care. The media largely
>>>>>>> ignores this anyway. I suppose, if Trump is a precedent, a GOP house
>>>>>>> could still impeach him from his VP office, 10 years later.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Even in the unlikely event that Biden the senior did anything illegal
>>>>>> as VP, the statute of limitations will have long since expired.  Let's
>>>>>> try to remember that this discussion is about Trump, whose misdeeds
>>>>>> are current and ongoing.  No one else in the history of this country
>>>>>> has illegally tried to stay in power after losing  a presidential
>>>>>> election.  The illegality continues as he solicits millions in
>>>>>> donations under the false pretext that the election was stolen from him.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wayne said:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Let's try to remember that this discussion is about Trump, whose
>>>>>   misdeeds are current and ongoing."
>>>>>
>>>>> Given the record so far of his presidency, the discussion really
>>>>> *should* be about Biden.  He's running out of people to blame.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Because, of course, when the Obama-Biden Admin came to an end, Biden
>>>> asked his supporters to come to D.C., and plan and commit an armed
>>>> insurrection against the House of Representatives and find political
>>>> leaders and execute them.
>>>
>>> Biden couldn't draw a big enough crowd to even scare the impotent Cap
>>> Po.
>>
>>
>> If Trump organized an armed insurrection on Jan 6th as Wayne and Harry
>> claim why did he authorized and offer National Guard troops to assist
>> Capital Police four days prior?
>>
>
>There is no record of former President Donald Trump officially authorizing
>20,000 National Guard troops for the U.S. Capitol ahead of the Jan. 6,
>2021, attack.
>
>There is no evidence that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi denied such an
>authorization, and experts said she doesn’t have the authority to do so in
>the first place.
>
>A Vanity Fair report said Trump made a passing remark to his acting defense
>secretary about potentially needing 10,000 National Guard troops, not
>20,000. But there’s no evidence the comment was treated as a formal
>authorization.

On Thu, 7 Jul 2022 17:17:46 -0400, Keyser Söze
<KeyserSöze@whitehouse.com> wrote:

>On 7/7/22 2:10 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>> On Thu, 7 Jul 2022 10:17:12 -0400, Keyser Söze
>> <KeyserSöze@whitehouse.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 7/7/22 6:34 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>> On 7/6/2022 3:51 PM, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 2:20:17 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 10:49:22 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 7/6/2022 10:38 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 6:41:52 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 7/6/2022 1:42 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, July 5, 2022 at 7:13:34 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/4/2022 4:02 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 06:55:57 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
>>>>>>>>>>>> <not...@noland.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/3/2022 8:01 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 12:19:49 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 7:00:11 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/2/2022 4:53 PM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 4:16:22 PM UTC-4,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 07:39:53 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <not...@noland.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/1/2022 4:58 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 11:56:20 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 2:27:15 PM UTC-4,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 09:33:30 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >From an op-ed article by Mick Mulvaney in USA Today:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's quite likely that Trump attempted to obstruct
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> justice, which may turn out to be the most serious,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and most provable crime he committed according to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mick Mulvaney, Director of the Office of Management
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and Budget; White House Chief of Staff.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Per Mulvaney, such claims are the threat Trump
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should be most worried about.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He also described a former White House aide's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tuesday testimony as "eminently credible."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The former acting White House chief of staff Mick
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote on Wednesday that in his view the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> real threat to former President Donald Trump was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence that might lead to accusations of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obstruction of justice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote that he had previously defended the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> former president against claims that he did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "anything illegal or criminal" in relation to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Capitol riot. He said he was having difficulty
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintaining that position, however, particularly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after Hutchinson's testimony, which he said he found
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "eminently credible."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Because after some of the bombshells that got
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dropped in that hearing, my guess is that things
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could get very dark for the former president,"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney also said, though, that Tuesday's hearing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> revealed one real threat to Trump that didn't hinge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on Hutchinson's words or credibility. "It is the one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that jumped out at me," he wrote. "And it is the one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that should most worry the former president."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He referred to the evidence presented by Rep. Liz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheney of Wyoming toward the end of the hearing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consisting of two messages that January 6 panel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witnesses said they received before giving their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> depositions. The messages included allusions to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being a "team player" to "stay in the good graces in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trump world" as well as a reminder that Trump read
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transcripts of interviews.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney said that the implication behind displaying
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the messages during the hearing was "crystal clear."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "The Jan. 6 committee members believe they have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence that people within the Trump operation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attempted to intimidate witnesses," Mulvaney wrote.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "And that, any way you slice it, is obstruction of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> justice."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you want to bet, if Trump said he wasn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> running in 2024, this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whole witch hunt evaporates. De Santis may be taking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that option away
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from him anyway.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witch-hunt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /?wiCH ?h?nt/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nounhistorical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noun: witch-hunt; plural noun: witch-hunts; noun:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witchhunt; plural noun: witchhunts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a) search for and subsequent persecution of a supposed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witch.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> b) informal: a campaign directed against a person or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> group holding unorthodox or unpopular views.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I take some exception to your use of "witch-hunt"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because of its implication of a search for something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that isn't real. In my mind, and the mind of many
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others, Trump's criminality is very real. The question
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is how best to prove it, and how best to punish it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure it's enough to just keep him from running
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in 2024 but that's a good start. I'd like to see his
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cult mystique with the right win sector of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Republican party totally annihilated so that we never
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to deal with his toxic influence again.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The whole process bothers me. Even you admit, the whole
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exercise is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> designed to prevent him from running again (two
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impeachments, one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after he left office and now you are hanging your hat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the 14th
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amendment)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Isn't this supposed to be up to the voters?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why are you folks so afraid of open and free elections?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would much prefer that he simply gets clobbered in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the primaries by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> margins too great to protest. De Santis is already
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chipping away at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his base.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I still believe the risks of trying to charge this guy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over bullshit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the social upheaval it might cause is not worth the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> risk for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> slim chance you can get any kind of conviction by 2024.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The court would still be hearing motions by then.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I mentioned before, Cruz is still in court for a school
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shooting in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2018 and it was a slam dunk against a kid with few
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> resources to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> present a defense.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trump may be a piece of shit but he is a rich piece of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shit who has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> always been surrounded by lawyers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Even Biden the Bozo isn't blaming Trump for much anymore.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's all "Russia, Russia, Russia".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Biden has to be a little careful or someone will point
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out Russia was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pretty quiet on Trump's watch. They got frisky during
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obama's watch
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and started a war on Biden's watch.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Putin had Trump right where he wanted him and didn't want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to upset the balance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://cdn.forumcomm.com/dims4/default/cc2560c/2147483647/strip/false/crop/3259x2423+0+0/resize/1486x1105!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum-communications-production-web.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fbrightspot%2F5d%2F6e%2F99f75ab4481499aab953bee3ff59%2Fcolor-edit-toon-trump-on-nato-and-russia.jpg
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cute.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's obvious you have an intense dislike for Trump which is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understandable. Based on your many posts about him, your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dislike goes back a long ways ... back when he was in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> private business and well before he ran for and won the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Presidency.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, if you can put that intense dislike and bias aside for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a moment, do you really feel the USA is in better positions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and conditions, economically, domestically and globally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> today compared to four years ago?.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The seeds of inflation were planted on Trump's watch with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Quantitative Easing program. It helped to keep the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> economy afloat during the Covid crisis but now were paying
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the price. The same can be said for the global supply chain
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> crisis. Could Trump have done anything about it if still in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> office? Frankly I doubt it. He would have done a good job of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blaming it on someone else however. That's his special
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> talent. Does it not matter to you that he tried to overthrow
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an election and obstruct the peaceful transfer of power?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is the bedrock of our democracy, and Trump reminds us
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of how fragile it can be. The vast majority of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> electorate saw through his bluff, bluster and bullshit in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 2020 election and rightfully voted him out of office.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For better or worse Biden was the only choice. For that we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can thank the feckless Republican party who stood by their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flawed candidate while the ship was burning.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Obama fiscal policy rewarded his rich contributors,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bankers and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wall Street but it left the middle class suffering. The more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we hear
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about who actually got the money the more pissed people are.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really just scratching the surface of the massive fraud with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a few
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> small timers who got charged. The big players who raked in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> millions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and padded their bottom line with it, like airlines are still
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> free to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do it again.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a hunch that history will record the Obama/Biden years
>>>>>>>>>>>>> as being
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the most corrupt in modern times.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I would put the stick in the dirt when GHWB took office and we
>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>> suffered from bad leadership since. That is both on the
>>>>>>>>>>>> corporate and
>>>>>>>>>>>> government side. The corporations adopted a 90 day window for
>>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>>> decision making, just trying to make good quarterly numbers, not
>>>>>>>>>>>> really building anything and they were supported by the same
>>>>>>>>>>>> mentality
>>>>>>>>>>>> in Washington. It was all about how Wall Street is doing with
>>>>>>>>>>>> no real
>>>>>>>>>>>> concern with how things are going on Main Street, what we do
>>>>>>>>>>>> next year
>>>>>>>>>>>> or how we will ever service the debt they incurred. The Democrats
>>>>>>>>>>>> embraced Rubin, Summers, Geithner and Greenspan more than the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Republicans.
>>>>>>>>>>>> We can complain about the American oligarchs like Jobs, Bezos
>>>>>>>>>>>> and Musk
>>>>>>>>>>>> but at least they were building things.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Musk and Bezos are pretty frustrated with the government too.
>>>>>>>>>>> When I think of corruption I am not thinking bad policies, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I am thinking corruption in the sense of using the power and
>>>>>>>>>>> influence of an elected office for personal financial gains.
>>>>>>>>>>> Biden is a perfect example of a smiling, career politician who
>>>>>>>>>>> has his
>>>>>>>>>>> hand out everywhere. Hunter's laptop will eventually do him in.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think GWB was corrupt in this sense. You can argue his
>>>>>>>>>>> policies but there's no evidence anywhere of him personally
>>>>>>>>>>> gaining by them financially, at least not by plan.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This will irk Wayne and Harry but neither did Trump.
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm not irked at all, in fact I agree with you about GWB. I think
>>>>>>>>>> the jury is still out on Biden but no one is more corrupt than
>>>>>>>>>> Trump. It's in his genes. GWBs big failing was putting too much
>>>>>>>>>> blind faith in Cheney and Rumsfeld..
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think the jury may be closer to a decision on Biden than you may
>>>>>>>>> think.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Have you followed and considered any of the Hunter laptop
>>>>>>>>> revelations or
>>>>>>>>> have you chosen to ignore them as most of the liberal press and media
>>>>>>>>> has?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've mostly ignored the Hunter allegations since he's just
>>>>>>>> leveraging his family connections like so many others. Is Joe
>>>>>>>> responsible for the actions of his adult son? If Hunter has broken
>>>>>>>> laws he should be prosecuted like anyone else.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If some of the allegations are true (I am not saying they *are*) broken
>>>>>>> laws may extend beyond Hunter. In fact, it could turn out that Hunter
>>>>>>> technically broke no laws but if his daddy shared financially in his
>>>>>>> business activities, especially when VP, this could become a really
>>>>>>> big legal issue.
>>>>>> Biden has enough juice at DoJ to have them slow walk this thing until
>>>>>> he is out of office, then he hopes nobody will care. The media largely
>>>>>> ignores this anyway. I suppose, if Trump is a precedent, a GOP house
>>>>>> could still impeach him from his VP office, 10 years later.
>>>>>
>>>>> ===
>>>>>
>>>>> Even in the unlikely event that Biden the senior did anything illegal
>>>>> as VP, the statute of limitations will have long since expired.  Let's
>>>>> try to remember that this discussion is about Trump, whose misdeeds
>>>>> are current and ongoing.  No one else in the history of this country
>>>>> has illegally tried to stay in power after losing  a presidential
>>>>> election.  The illegality continues as he solicits millions in
>>>>> donations under the false pretext that the election was stolen from him.
>>>>
>>>> Wayne said:
>>>>
>>>> "Let's try to remember that this discussion is about Trump, whose
>>>>   misdeeds are current and ongoing."
>>>>
>>>> Given the record so far of his presidency, the discussion really
>>>> *should* be about Biden.  He's running out of people to blame.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Because, of course, when the Obama-Biden Admin came to an end, Biden
>>> asked his supporters to come to D.C., and plan and commit an armed
>>> insurrection against the House of Representatives and find political
>>> leaders and execute them.
>>
>> Biden couldn't draw a big enough crowd to even scare the impotent Cap
>> Po.
>He drew big enough crowds to beat the Orange Pig. +

Mr. Luddite <nothere@noland.com> wrote:
> On 7/7/2022 2:10 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>> On Thu, 7 Jul 2022 10:17:12 -0400, Keyser Söze
>> <KeyserSöze@whitehouse.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 7/7/22 6:34 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>> On 7/6/2022 3:51 PM, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 2:20:17 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 10:49:22 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 7/6/2022 10:38 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 6:41:52 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 7/6/2022 1:42 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, July 5, 2022 at 7:13:34 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/4/2022 4:02 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 06:55:57 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
>>>>>>>>>>>> <not...@noland.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/3/2022 8:01 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 12:19:49 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 7:00:11 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/2/2022 4:53 PM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 4:16:22 PM UTC-4,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 07:39:53 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <not...@noland.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/1/2022 4:58 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 11:56:20 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 2:27:15 PM UTC-4,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 09:33:30 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From an op-ed article by Mick Mulvaney in USA Today:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's quite likely that Trump attempted to obstruct
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> justice, which may turn out to be the most serious,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and most provable crime he committed according to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mick Mulvaney, Director of the Office of Management
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and Budget; White House Chief of Staff.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Per Mulvaney, such claims are the threat Trump
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should be most worried about.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He also described a former White House aide's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tuesday testimony as "eminently credible."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The former acting White House chief of staff Mick
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote on Wednesday that in his view the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> real threat to former President Donald Trump was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence that might lead to accusations of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obstruction of justice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote that he had previously defended the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> former president against claims that he did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "anything illegal or criminal" in relation to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Capitol riot. He said he was having difficulty
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintaining that position, however, particularly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after Hutchinson's testimony, which he said he found
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "eminently credible."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Because after some of the bombshells that got
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dropped in that hearing, my guess is that things
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could get very dark for the former president,"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney wrote.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney also said, though, that Tuesday's hearing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> revealed one real threat to Trump that didn't hinge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on Hutchinson's words or credibility. "It is the one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that jumped out at me," he wrote. "And it is the one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that should most worry the former president."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He referred to the evidence presented by Rep. Liz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheney of Wyoming toward the end of the hearing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consisting of two messages that January 6 panel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witnesses said they received before giving their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> depositions. The messages included allusions to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being a "team player" to "stay in the good graces in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trump world" as well as a reminder that Trump read
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transcripts of interviews.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mulvaney said that the implication behind displaying
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the messages during the hearing was "crystal clear."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "The Jan. 6 committee members believe they have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence that people within the Trump operation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attempted to intimidate witnesses," Mulvaney wrote.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "And that, any way you slice it, is obstruction of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> justice."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you want to bet, if Trump said he wasn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> running in 2024, this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whole witch hunt evaporates. De Santis may be taking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that option away
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from him anyway.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witch-hunt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /?wiCH ?h?nt/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nounhistorical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noun: witch-hunt; plural noun: witch-hunts; noun:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witchhunt; plural noun: witchhunts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a) search for and subsequent persecution of a supposed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witch.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> b) informal: a campaign directed against a person or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> group holding unorthodox or unpopular views.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I take some exception to your use of "witch-hunt"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because of its implication of a search for something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that isn't real. In my mind, and the mind of many
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others, Trump's criminality is very real. The question
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is how best to prove it, and how best to punish it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure it's enough to just keep him from running
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in 2024 but that's a good start. I'd like to see his
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cult mystique with the right win sector of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Republican party totally annihilated so that we never
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to deal with his toxic influence again.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The whole process bothers me. Even you admit, the whole
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exercise is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> designed to prevent him from running again (two
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impeachments, one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after he left office and now you are hanging your hat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the 14th
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amendment)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Isn't this supposed to be up to the voters?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why are you folks so afraid of open and free elections?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would much prefer that he simply gets clobbered in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the primaries by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> margins too great to protest. De Santis is already
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chipping away at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his base.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I still believe the risks of trying to charge this guy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over bullshit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the social upheaval it might cause is not worth the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> risk for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> slim chance you can get any kind of conviction by 2024.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The court would still be hearing motions by then.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I mentioned before, Cruz is still in court for a school
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shooting in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2018 and it was a slam dunk against a kid with few
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> resources to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> present a defense.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trump may be a piece of shit but he is a rich piece of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shit who has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> always been surrounded by lawyers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Even Biden the Bozo isn't blaming Trump for much anymore.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's all "Russia, Russia, Russia".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Biden has to be a little careful or someone will point
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out Russia was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pretty quiet on Trump's watch. They got frisky during
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obama's watch
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and started a war on Biden's watch.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Putin had Trump right where he wanted him and didn't want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to upset the balance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://cdn.forumcomm.com/dims4/default/cc2560c/2147483647/strip/false/crop/3259x2423+0+0/resize/1486x1105!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum-communications-production-web.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fbrightspot%2F5d%2F6e%2F99f75ab4481499aab953bee3ff59%2Fcolor-edit-toon-trump-on-nato-and-russia.jpg
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cute.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's obvious you have an intense dislike for Trump which is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understandable. Based on your many posts about him, your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dislike goes back a long ways ... back when he was in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> private business and well before he ran for and won the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Presidency.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, if you can put that intense dislike and bias aside for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a moment, do you really feel the USA is in better positions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and conditions, economically, domestically and globally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> today compared to four years ago?.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The seeds of inflation were planted on Trump's watch with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Quantitative Easing program. It helped to keep the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> economy afloat during the Covid crisis but now were paying
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the price. The same can be said for the global supply chain
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> crisis. Could Trump have done anything about it if still in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> office? Frankly I doubt it. He would have done a good job of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blaming it on someone else however. That's his special
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> talent. Does it not matter to you that he tried to overthrow
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an election and obstruct the peaceful transfer of power?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is the bedrock of our democracy, and Trump reminds us
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of how fragile it can be. The vast majority of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> electorate saw through his bluff, bluster and bullshit in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 2020 election and rightfully voted him out of office.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For better or worse Biden was the only choice. For that we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can thank the feckless Republican party who stood by their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flawed candidate while the ship was burning.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Obama fiscal policy rewarded his rich contributors,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bankers and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wall Street but it left the middle class suffering. The more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we hear
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about who actually got the money the more pissed people are.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really just scratching the surface of the massive fraud with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a few
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> small timers who got charged. The big players who raked in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> millions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and padded their bottom line with it, like airlines are still
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> free to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do it again.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a hunch that history will record the Obama/Biden years
>>>>>>>>>>>>> as being
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the most corrupt in modern times.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I would put the stick in the dirt when GHWB took office and we
>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>> suffered from bad leadership since. That is both on the
>>>>>>>>>>>> corporate and
>>>>>>>>>>>> government side. The corporations adopted a 90 day window for
>>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>>> decision making, just trying to make good quarterly numbers, not
>>>>>>>>>>>> really building anything and they were supported by the same
>>>>>>>>>>>> mentality
>>>>>>>>>>>> in Washington. It was all about how Wall Street is doing with
>>>>>>>>>>>> no real
>>>>>>>>>>>> concern with how things are going on Main Street, what we do
>>>>>>>>>>>> next year
>>>>>>>>>>>> or how we will ever service the debt they incurred. The Democrats
>>>>>>>>>>>> embraced Rubin, Summers, Geithner and Greenspan more than the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Republicans.
>>>>>>>>>>>> We can complain about the American oligarchs like Jobs, Bezos
>>>>>>>>>>>> and Musk
>>>>>>>>>>>> but at least they were building things.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Musk and Bezos are pretty frustrated with the government too.
>>>>>>>>>>> When I think of corruption I am not thinking bad policies, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I am thinking corruption in the sense of using the power and
>>>>>>>>>>> influence of an elected office for personal financial gains.
>>>>>>>>>>> Biden is a perfect example of a smiling, career politician who
>>>>>>>>>>> has his
>>>>>>>>>>> hand out everywhere. Hunter's laptop will eventually do him in.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think GWB was corrupt in this sense. You can argue his
>>>>>>>>>>> policies but there's no evidence anywhere of him personally
>>>>>>>>>>> gaining by them financially, at least not by plan.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This will irk Wayne and Harry but neither did Trump.
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm not irked at all, in fact I agree with you about GWB. I think
>>>>>>>>>> the jury is still out on Biden but no one is more corrupt than
>>>>>>>>>> Trump. It's in his genes. GWBs big failing was putting too much
>>>>>>>>>> blind faith in Cheney and Rumsfeld..
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think the jury may be closer to a decision on Biden than you may
>>>>>>>>> think.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Have you followed and considered any of the Hunter laptop
>>>>>>>>> revelations or
>>>>>>>>> have you chosen to ignore them as most of the liberal press and media
>>>>>>>>> has?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've mostly ignored the Hunter allegations since he's just
>>>>>>>> leveraging his family connections like so many others. Is Joe
>>>>>>>> responsible for the actions of his adult son? If Hunter has broken
>>>>>>>> laws he should be prosecuted like anyone else.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If some of the allegations are true (I am not saying they *are*) broken
>>>>>>> laws may extend beyond Hunter. In fact, it could turn out that Hunter
>>>>>>> technically broke no laws but if his daddy shared financially in his
>>>>>>> business activities, especially when VP, this could become a really
>>>>>>> big legal issue.
>>>>>> Biden has enough juice at DoJ to have them slow walk this thing until
>>>>>> he is out of office, then he hopes nobody will care. The media largely
>>>>>> ignores this anyway. I suppose, if Trump is a precedent, a GOP house
>>>>>> could still impeach him from his VP office, 10 years later.
>>>>>
>>>>> ===
>>>>>
>>>>> Even in the unlikely event that Biden the senior did anything illegal
>>>>> as VP, the statute of limitations will have long since expired.  Let's
>>>>> try to remember that this discussion is about Trump, whose misdeeds
>>>>> are current and ongoing.  No one else in the history of this country
>>>>> has illegally tried to stay in power after losing  a presidential
>>>>> election.  The illegality continues as he solicits millions in
>>>>> donations under the false pretext that the election was stolen from him.
>>>>
>>>> Wayne said:
>>>>
>>>> "Let's try to remember that this discussion is about Trump, whose
>>>>   misdeeds are current and ongoing."
>>>>
>>>> Given the record so far of his presidency, the discussion really
>>>> *should* be about Biden.  He's running out of people to blame.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Because, of course, when the Obama-Biden Admin came to an end, Biden
>>> asked his supporters to come to D.C., and plan and commit an armed
>>> insurrection against the House of Representatives and find political
>>> leaders and execute them.
>>
>> Biden couldn't draw a big enough crowd to even scare the impotent Cap
>> Po.
>
>
> If Trump organized an armed insurrection on Jan 6th as Wayne and Harry
> claim why did he authorized and offer National Guard troops to assist
> Capital Police four days prior?
>