On Sunday, April 30, 2023 at 4:26:49 AM UTC-4, Jurgen Pitaske wrote:
> On Sunday, 30 April 2023 at 07:22:12 UTC+1, Jurgen Pitaske wrote:
> > On Sunday, 30 April 2023 at 07:14:16 UTC+1, Jurgen Pitaske wrote:
> > > On Sunday, 30 April 2023 at 00:34:09 UTC+1, Hugh Aguilar wrote:
> > > > On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 11:47:36 PM UTC-7, John Hart wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 10:41:09 PM UTC-7, Jurgen Pitaske wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Why did Testra attack me on comp.lang.forth with lies and insults?
> > > > > No one from Testra ever attacked anyone on comp.lang.forth
> > > > > or any other news group ever.
> > > > Bullshit!
> > > > This entire thread was an unprovoked attack on me:
> > > > https://groups.google.com/g/comp.lang.forth/c/wydQr643gX0
> > > >
> > > > Tom Hart was totally lying:
> > > > > I let him go myself,
> > > > > after I had given him a project to write a DXF converter to HPGL code.
> > > > > He would not take any direction.
> > > > > I scrapped the project.
> > > >
> > > > I never even heard of HPGL before this attack. There was no HPGL project.
> > > > Also, I never got any direction in any of my work.
> > > > When I wrote the DXF to GCODE converter nobody told me about how
> > > > Bezier Splines might work. I didn't know about Bezier Splines, and I assume
> > > > that the reason I wasn't told about Bezier Splines is that Tom and John Hart
> > > > don't know about them either. Tom Hart would just angrily tell me:
> > > > "Just make a smooth line through all the tiny line segments!"
> > > > There was just a mish-mash of tiny line segments ranging from 1/1000 of an inch
> > > > to 20/1000 of an inch, and some longer. They pointed in every which direction. Some
> > > > weren't touching any other line segment and some touched other line segments.
> > > > I had no idea how to make a smooth line through this mess. I wished that I did
> > > > have some direction, but I never did. I wished that I had mind-reading ability
> > > > so that I could know what image the artist had intended with this mish-mash.
> > > > Tom Hart says that I'm too stupid to write a data-conversion program.
> > > > This isn't true. I was converting DXF code to GCODE within a couple of weeks
> > > > of starting the project. The problem was that the result was a mess..
> > > > When I started the project I was told that this was a simple data-conversion
> > > > program, so I felt confident that I could finish in a few weeks. If I had been told
> > > > that I had to make a smooth line through a big mess of tiny line-segments,
> > > > I would have refused the job. If I had been told that I needed Bezier Splines
> > > > I would have refused the job because I don't know anything about the subject.
> > > > (This is where the comp.lang.forth trolls can spring into action and say that
> > > > they could easily implement Bezier Splines, so they get to be big internet experts
> > > > without writing any code, as usual).
> > > >
> > > > Tom Hart was totally lying:
> > > > > [Hugh] had nothing to do with the processor itself,
> > > > > that was all designed by John Hart and Steve Brault.
> > > > >
> > > > > The PLD version was based upon our original Forth Engine done long before
> > > > > we ever ran across Hugh.
> > > > The original Forth Engine was a bit-slice processor.
> > > > This is unrelated to the MiniForth that was a VLIW processor.
> > > > Tom Hart is saying that MFX was written for the bit-slice processor and then
> > > > was used on the MiniForth. Bullshit! I wrote MFX for the MiniForth (MFX means
> > > > Mini Forth Xcompiler). I never saw any of the code from the original Forth Engine.
> > > > All of that was written by John Perona who later wrote Multi-Edit. Even if there
> > > > had been some similarity between the original Forth Engine and the MiniForth,
> > > > I still wouldn't have looked at John Perona's code because I never look at other
> > > > people's code (that is like peering through a bedroom window to look at your
> > > > neighbor's wife). Also, as a practical matter John Perona is a typical C programmer
> > > > who writes multi-page functions. He doesn't factor code at all.
> > > >
> > > > Testra was originally called Hartronics and they advertised their "Forth Engine"
> > > > in Forth Dimensions, in case anybody cares (I don't).
> > > >
> > > > It was obvious that Juergen Pintaske wanted to denounce me on comp.lang.forth,
> > > > by saying that I am lying about writing MFX at Testra. Tom Hart totally complied by
> > > > providing Juergen Pintaske with support for this attack. All of Juergen Pintaske's
> > > > attacks on me over the last four years have been based on him obtaining 100%
> > > > support from Tom Hart.
> > > > It is very disingenuous for John Hart to now say:
> > > > > No one from Testra ever attacked anyone on comp.lang.forth
> > > > > or any other news group ever.
> > > > Bullshit! You could have ignored Juergen Pintaske. Everybody else in the world does!
> > > > Instead you provided Juergen Pintaske with 100% support for attacking me.
> > > > Juergen Pintaske is now Testra's mouthpiece, and he has Tom Hart's support in this.
> > > > > Not referring to anyone specific, some people not only burn their bridges
> > > > > they spend years taking the foundation down to bedrock with a jackhammer
> > > > > until no evidence of what they accomplished remains.
> > > > It was in the 1990s, less than five years after I left Testra, when I heard John Hart
> > > > (possibly Tom Hart doing an impersonation) say on speaker-phone that I had
> > > > accomplished "nothing" and that I was not eligible for rehire. Presumably Testra had
> > > > been saying this starting immediately after I left Testra but it was a few years later
> > > > when I caught them at this. So, it didn't take Tom Hart long to burn his bridge with me,
> > > > and jackhammer the foundation, to ensure that no evidence of accomplishment remains.
> > > > Tom Hart cares about loyalty! He expects employees to remain employed forever,
> > > > never asking for a raise or health insurance or anything else. Loyalty is a one-way street;
> > > > Tom Hart has no sense of loyalty to his employees and will attack them in public.
> > > >
> > > > Why didn't Testra just tell me when I left that leaving was an act of disloyalty
> > > > and that I would never get a reference? I made a fool out of myself by going to
> > > > job interviews, such as at Lockheed Martin, and saying that I wrote MFX at Testra.
> > > > Most likely, Testra wanted me to go to these job interviews and describe MFX,
> > > > not for my benefit, but just as an advertisement for Testra's MiniForth processor.
> > > > They may have been hoping that Lockheed Martin would buy the MiniForth so
> > > > they could become wealthy, but they had no way to get Lockheed Martin's attention.
> > > > You can't just show up in the lobby of Lockheed Martin and tell the receptionist:
> > > > "Hi! I've got a super-awesome processor! Would you like to buy it?"
> > > > They may have believed (correctly) that for me to go to a job interview at
> > > > Lockheed Martin and describe MFX would be the only way that Lockheed Martin
> > > > would find out about the MiniForth --- but they would pull the rug out from under me
> > > > by telling Lockheed Martin that they wrote MFX --- they would explain to
> > > > Lockheed Martin that they are geniuses who deserve to get rich!
> > > WHAT A MENTAL DESASTER AGAIN.
> > >
> > > Everybody is a liar - which automatically leads to
> > > HUGH AGUILAR IS an AGUILIAR as he is part of everybody.
> > > GO BACK TO YOUR CAGE AND BARK OR NOT.
> > >
> > > Another made up piece of lies - just to make you feel good.
> > >
> > > I did my job at MPE as consultant,
> > > which triggered tmy FORTH BOOKSHELF on amazon
> > > https://www.amazon.co.uk/Juergen-Pintaske/e/B00N8HVEZM%3Fref=dbs_a_mng_rwt_scns_share
> > > I convinced Steve to do the 1802 in FPGA and the FIG-Forth that goees with it on github.
> > > And he did as well the MISC PROCESSOR I HAD INITIATED in FPGA plus a Forth that goes with it.
> > > What have you contributed over the last 30 years
> > > - except of often dayly rants and
> > > accusations of probably everybody here.
> > LIAR LIAR LIAR - YOU ARE DOING WELL.
> > To state that my letter to Testra and the kind answer from there was started without reason
> > is the biggest lie you ever told.
> >
> > You have attacked me over the last 10 years for no real reason
> > - it is all here on CLF so you can check
> > for no real reason.
> > So I wondered what Testra would say about you,
> > and it ended up in the probably most read post of CLF with about 4400 reads now.
> > https://groups.google.com/g/comp.lang.forth/c/wydQr643gX0
> > It will be 4444 soon -
> > You cannot get closer to fours.
> > Have a nice day,
> > and May The Fours Be With You.
> ... and 1444 views here now

On Sunday, 30 April 2023 at 10:41:45 UTC+1, Lorem Ipsum wrote:
> On Sunday, April 30, 2023 at 4:26:49 AM UTC-4, Jurgen Pitaske wrote:
> > On Sunday, 30 April 2023 at 07:22:12 UTC+1, Jurgen Pitaske wrote:
> > > On Sunday, 30 April 2023 at 07:14:16 UTC+1, Jurgen Pitaske wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, 30 April 2023 at 00:34:09 UTC+1, Hugh Aguilar wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 11:47:36 PM UTC-7, John Hart wrote:
> > > > > > On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 10:41:09 PM UTC-7, Jurgen Pitaske wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Why did Testra attack me on comp.lang.forth with lies and insults?
> > > > > > No one from Testra ever attacked anyone on comp.lang.forth
> > > > > > or any other news group ever.
> > > > > Bullshit!
> > > > > This entire thread was an unprovoked attack on me:
> > > > > https://groups.google.com/g/comp.lang.forth/c/wydQr643gX0
> > > > >
> > > > > Tom Hart was totally lying:
> > > > > > I let him go myself,
> > > > > > after I had given him a project to write a DXF converter to HPGL code.
> > > > > > He would not take any direction.
> > > > > > I scrapped the project.
> > > > >
> > > > > I never even heard of HPGL before this attack. There was no HPGL project.
> > > > > Also, I never got any direction in any of my work.
> > > > > When I wrote the DXF to GCODE converter nobody told me about how
> > > > > Bezier Splines might work. I didn't know about Bezier Splines, and I assume
> > > > > that the reason I wasn't told about Bezier Splines is that Tom and John Hart
> > > > > don't know about them either. Tom Hart would just angrily tell me:
> > > > > "Just make a smooth line through all the tiny line segments!"
> > > > > There was just a mish-mash of tiny line segments ranging from 1/1000 of an inch
> > > > > to 20/1000 of an inch, and some longer. They pointed in every which direction. Some
> > > > > weren't touching any other line segment and some touched other line segments.
> > > > > I had no idea how to make a smooth line through this mess. I wished that I did
> > > > > have some direction, but I never did. I wished that I had mind-reading ability
> > > > > so that I could know what image the artist had intended with this mish-mash.
> > > > > Tom Hart says that I'm too stupid to write a data-conversion program.
> > > > > This isn't true. I was converting DXF code to GCODE within a couple of weeks
> > > > > of starting the project. The problem was that the result was a mess.
> > > > > When I started the project I was told that this was a simple data-conversion
> > > > > program, so I felt confident that I could finish in a few weeks. If I had been told
> > > > > that I had to make a smooth line through a big mess of tiny line-segments,
> > > > > I would have refused the job. If I had been told that I needed Bezier Splines
> > > > > I would have refused the job because I don't know anything about the subject.
> > > > > (This is where the comp.lang.forth trolls can spring into action and say that
> > > > > they could easily implement Bezier Splines, so they get to be big internet experts
> > > > > without writing any code, as usual).
> > > > >
> > > > > Tom Hart was totally lying:
> > > > > > [Hugh] had nothing to do with the processor itself,
> > > > > > that was all designed by John Hart and Steve Brault.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The PLD version was based upon our original Forth Engine done long before
> > > > > > we ever ran across Hugh.
> > > > > The original Forth Engine was a bit-slice processor.
> > > > > This is unrelated to the MiniForth that was a VLIW processor.
> > > > > Tom Hart is saying that MFX was written for the bit-slice processor and then
> > > > > was used on the MiniForth. Bullshit! I wrote MFX for the MiniForth (MFX means
> > > > > Mini Forth Xcompiler). I never saw any of the code from the original Forth Engine.
> > > > > All of that was written by John Perona who later wrote Multi-Edit.. Even if there
> > > > > had been some similarity between the original Forth Engine and the MiniForth,
> > > > > I still wouldn't have looked at John Perona's code because I never look at other
> > > > > people's code (that is like peering through a bedroom window to look at your
> > > > > neighbor's wife). Also, as a practical matter John Perona is a typical C programmer
> > > > > who writes multi-page functions. He doesn't factor code at all.
> > > > >
> > > > > Testra was originally called Hartronics and they advertised their "Forth Engine"
> > > > > in Forth Dimensions, in case anybody cares (I don't).
> > > > >
> > > > > It was obvious that Juergen Pintaske wanted to denounce me on comp.lang.forth,
> > > > > by saying that I am lying about writing MFX at Testra. Tom Hart totally complied by
> > > > > providing Juergen Pintaske with support for this attack. All of Juergen Pintaske's
> > > > > attacks on me over the last four years have been based on him obtaining 100%
> > > > > support from Tom Hart.
> > > > > It is very disingenuous for John Hart to now say:
> > > > > > No one from Testra ever attacked anyone on comp.lang.forth
> > > > > > or any other news group ever.
> > > > > Bullshit! You could have ignored Juergen Pintaske. Everybody else in the world does!
> > > > > Instead you provided Juergen Pintaske with 100% support for attacking me.
> > > > > Juergen Pintaske is now Testra's mouthpiece, and he has Tom Hart's support in this.
> > > > > > Not referring to anyone specific, some people not only burn their bridges
> > > > > > they spend years taking the foundation down to bedrock with a jackhammer
> > > > > > until no evidence of what they accomplished remains.
> > > > > It was in the 1990s, less than five years after I left Testra, when I heard John Hart
> > > > > (possibly Tom Hart doing an impersonation) say on speaker-phone that I had
> > > > > accomplished "nothing" and that I was not eligible for rehire. Presumably Testra had
> > > > > been saying this starting immediately after I left Testra but it was a few years later
> > > > > when I caught them at this. So, it didn't take Tom Hart long to burn his bridge with me,
> > > > > and jackhammer the foundation, to ensure that no evidence of accomplishment remains.
> > > > > Tom Hart cares about loyalty! He expects employees to remain employed forever,
> > > > > never asking for a raise or health insurance or anything else. Loyalty is a one-way street;
> > > > > Tom Hart has no sense of loyalty to his employees and will attack them in public.
> > > > >
> > > > > Why didn't Testra just tell me when I left that leaving was an act of disloyalty
> > > > > and that I would never get a reference? I made a fool out of myself by going to
> > > > > job interviews, such as at Lockheed Martin, and saying that I wrote MFX at Testra.
> > > > > Most likely, Testra wanted me to go to these job interviews and describe MFX,
> > > > > not for my benefit, but just as an advertisement for Testra's MiniForth processor.
> > > > > They may have been hoping that Lockheed Martin would buy the MiniForth so
> > > > > they could become wealthy, but they had no way to get Lockheed Martin's attention.
> > > > > You can't just show up in the lobby of Lockheed Martin and tell the receptionist:
> > > > > "Hi! I've got a super-awesome processor! Would you like to buy it?"
> > > > > They may have believed (correctly) that for me to go to a job interview at
> > > > > Lockheed Martin and describe MFX would be the only way that Lockheed Martin
> > > > > would find out about the MiniForth --- but they would pull the rug out from under me
> > > > > by telling Lockheed Martin that they wrote MFX --- they would explain to
> > > > > Lockheed Martin that they are geniuses who deserve to get rich!
> > > > WHAT A MENTAL DESASTER AGAIN.
> > > >
> > > > Everybody is a liar - which automatically leads to
> > > > HUGH AGUILAR IS an AGUILIAR as he is part of everybody.
> > > > GO BACK TO YOUR CAGE AND BARK OR NOT.
> > > >
> > > > Another made up piece of lies - just to make you feel good.
> > > >
> > > > I did my job at MPE as consultant,
> > > > which triggered tmy FORTH BOOKSHELF on amazon
> > > > https://www.amazon.co.uk/Juergen-Pintaske/e/B00N8HVEZM%3Fref=dbs_a_mng_rwt_scns_share
> > > > I convinced Steve to do the 1802 in FPGA and the FIG-Forth that goees with it on github.
> > > > And he did as well the MISC PROCESSOR I HAD INITIATED in FPGA plus a Forth that goes with it.
> > > > What have you contributed over the last 30 years
> > > > - except of often dayly rants and
> > > > accusations of probably everybody here.
> > > LIAR LIAR LIAR - YOU ARE DOING WELL.
> > > To state that my letter to Testra and the kind answer from there was started without reason
> > > is the biggest lie you ever told.
> > >
> > > You have attacked me over the last 10 years for no real reason
> > > - it is all here on CLF so you can check
> > > for no real reason.
> > > So I wondered what Testra would say about you,
> > > and it ended up in the probably most read post of CLF with about 4400 reads now.
> > > https://groups.google.com/g/comp.lang.forth/c/wydQr643gX0
> > > It will be 4444 soon -
> > > You cannot get closer to fours.
> > > Have a nice day,
> > > and May The Fours Be With You.
> > ... and 1444 views here now
>
> This is without a doubt, the weirdest group I've ever seen.
>
> --
>
> Rick C.
>
> -++- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
> -++- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On 30/04/2023 11:52 pm, Jurgen Pitaske wrote:
> On Sunday, 30 April 2023 at 10:41:45 UTC+1, Lorem Ipsum wrote:
>
>> This is without a doubt, the weirdest group I've ever seen.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Rick C.
>>
>> -++- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
>> -++- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
>
> And you are a much contributing member

LOL. The devil knows his own even when they don't.

On Monday, 1 May 2023 at 02:46:01 UTC+1, dxforth wrote:
> On 30/04/2023 11:52 pm, Jurgen Pitaske wrote:
> > On Sunday, 30 April 2023 at 10:41:45 UTC+1, Lorem Ipsum wrote:
> >
> >> This is without a doubt, the weirdest group I've ever seen.
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Rick C.
> >>
> >> -++- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
> >> -++- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
> >
> > And you are a much contributing member
> LOL. The devil knows his own even when they don't.
you forgot to give us the link, but google helps
https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Revelation%2012%3A12

On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 11:47:36 PM UTC-7, John Hart wrote:
> A gifted programmer, with no experience was given a chance,
> succeeded and was let go after he finished because there was
> nothing for him to do.
> ...
> Which indicated he was a creative individual and like many creative
> individuals, might be difficult to work with. A truth that's easily verified
> by reading posts on this and many other tech newsgroups.

John Hart makes it sound as if I'm the scourge of the internet and have
been banned from multiple tech newsgroups. He says this because he wants
people to believe that the entire world is 100% aligned with him in opposition to me.
This isn't true, though. I have only been banned from CLAX. This was here:
https://groups.google.com/g/comp.lang.asm.x86/c/IVtSmnc2ddw/m/CH3O3IUjBAAJ

On Wednesday, November 2, 2016 at 7:36:13 PM UTC-7, Rod Pemberton wrote:
> On Mon, 31 Oct 2016 15:30:03 -0700 (PDT)
> hughag...@nospicedham.gmail.com wrote:
> > How much cost is there in doing a JMP (unconditional)? This is always
> > predicted correctly, so there shouldn't be much cost --- the
> > trace-cache doesn't get emptied out and refilled --- OTOH, a new
> > 16-byte paragraph has to be loaded and compiled because the jump
> > destination is not likely to be in the same paragraph as the JMP is.
> > I wonder about this question because quite a lot of my primitives end
> > in DROP --- should I have a JMP to the DROP function, or should I
> > inline the DROP code? Also, is there any difference in speed between
> > a JMP with an 8-bit displacement and a JMP with a 16-bit displacement?
> ¿Qué? Habla Inglés por favor. Lenguaje ensamblador no tiene una
> instrucción DROP. Los programadores del Forth en comp.lang.forth
> pueden saber sobre DROP. (Gracias, Google Translate.)
> > The x86 continues to be mysterious to me --- certainly the most
> > complicated processor that I've ever worked with...
> "Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200."

On Tuesday, November 8, 2016 at 4:48:11 PM UTC-7, Frank Kotler wrote:
> hughag...@nospicedham.gmail.com wrote:
>
> ...
> > Rod Pemberton is a troll.
> Bye, Hugh.
>
> Sincerely,
> Frank

So, I'm kicked out of CLAX. :-( This is presumably what John Hart is describing.
Frank Kotler the moderator apparently is Rod Pemberton's protector.

Fortunately, Frank Kotler is not the moderator on comp.lang.forth.
Here we have John Hart's favorite thread:
https://groups.google.com/g/comp.lang.forth/c/wydQr643gX0/m/9rwVaID9CAAJ

Frank Kotler would have certainly banned me from comp.lang.forth for this:

On Friday, January 3, 2020 at 10:41:26 PM UTC-7, hughag...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, January 2, 2020 at 4:31:35 PM UTC-7, Rod Pemberton wrote:
> > Hugh called me racist for something that's not racist, but something
> > which actually pointed out racism. It pointed out racism against white
> > people. The fact that you misinterpreted it and attempted to falsely
> > twist it into something it wasn't so that it fit into your biased
> > political narrative, i.e., racism against black people, doesn't change
> > the fact that what I said was wholly non-racist and is still is true.
> I actually call Rod Pemberton a racist because he calls me a "minority."
> This is an example:
> On Wednesday, January 1, 2020 at 7:56:17 PM UTC-7, hughag...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, December 29, 2019 at 11:54:09 PM UTC-7, Rod Pemberton wrote:
> > > For you, as a minority (in the U.S.), this would seem to be a rather
> > > bizarre and wholly illogical perspective. If the FBI is willing to
> > > discriminate against the majority race (white people, i.e., people of
> > > European descent) in the U.S., do you think that the FBI would even
> > > hesitate to not discriminate against minorities?
> >
> > Piss off, racist troll!
>
> I'm not actually a minority unless I explicitly play the minority card,
> such as by applying for Affirmative Action. I have never done this.
> Rod Pemberton cares if I am in a minority race or I am in
> "the majority race (white people, i.e., people of European descent)."
> That is racism.
> That is also stupid because Spain is in Europe, so it is possible to
> have an Hispanic name (Aguilar) and yet be white.
> Even more stupid is that I may be of Spanish descent, but I'm a
> 5th generation American, so this is of historical interest at best.
>
> In general, only racists care what my skin color is.
> Weirdly, racist Mexicans say: "You can't speak Spanish. You're white!"
> Racist Whites say: "You have an Hispanic name. You're brown!"
> So, my skin color depends upon the political agenda of the observer! lol
>
> Rod Pemberton is also a stalker:
>
> On Friday, March 7, 2014 at 3:23:53 PM UTC-7, Rod Pemberton wrote:
> > On Fri, 07 Mar 2014 02:48:18 -0500, <hughag...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, March 5, 2014 7:17:13 PM UTC-7, Albert van der Horst wrote:
> >
> > > I agree that Rod's response, especially the satellite photo of Brian's
> > > parents' house, was pretty creepy --- [..]
> >
> > Satellite photos linked to addresses, phone numbers, and IPs are the
> > modern phonebook and streetmap ... It's only creepy to those who
> > haven't moved into the modern era of Microsoft Streets and Trips,
> > Google's satellite maps, and, of course, "Big Brother." Or, it's
> > creepy for those who haven't accepted or willfully ignore the NSA
> > and CIA spying, and illegal U.S. government TSA body scans, etc.
> >
> > You've been told about posting your IP too. Even so, you post from
> > your relative's IP. Why is that Hugh?
> >
> > Originally, I intended to do that to you a while ago when you were being
> > an ass and posting from your relatives house (Uncle?) in California. But,
> > IIRC, you mentioned something about your relative being seriously ill.
> > So, I didn't think it would've been taken well by you, not that you
> > would've
> > taken it well at any point in time ... But, hitting a guy when he's down,
> > like when a relative has died or possibly dying, is completely tactless..
> > But, I'm 100% sure that had I used that on *you* instead of the other guy,
> > it would've resulted in a far more positive response from those present..
> > Some here might've even openly applauded the effort as they've done for
> > attacks on you in the past. So, just remember that you were the one who
> > inspired such a response originally.
>
> None of this is true.
> I don't live in California, and I don't have an uncle, dying or otherwise..
> Rod Pemberton is a stalker. He tries to find people's home addresses
> and then post satellite photos of the people's home on public forums
> along with the home address. That is very creepy!
> On Thursday, January 2, 2020 at 4:44:54 PM UTC-7, Rod Pemberton wrote:
> > On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 18:56:15 -0800 (PST)
> > hughag...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > Piss off!
> >
> > Didn't you say you got arrested for that?
> >
> > Rod Pemberton
> > --
> > "It's OK to be White." <-- investigated by FBI as a hate crime
> > "Black Lives Matter." <-- not being investigated ...
> I've been telling Rod Pemberton for years: Piss off!
> I've never been arrested for doing so.
> I intend to continue telling him this forever: Piss off!

On 2/05/2023 1:24 pm, Hugh Aguilar wrote:
>
> I have only been banned from CLAX. This was here:
> https://groups.google.com/g/comp.lang.asm.x86/c/IVtSmnc2ddw/m/CH3O3IUjBAAJ

Usenet groups can be owned/moderated by an individual? I could see Google
banning users from injecting under its terms of use but I imagine that's a
high bar seeing as spammers seem to get away with it.

dxforth <dxforth@gmail.com> writes:
>Usenet groups can be owned/moderated by an individual?

Moderated Usenet groups are moderated by individual moderators or
moderation teams.

- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
New standard: https://forth-standard.org/
EuroForth 2022: https://euro.theforth.net

On 2/05/2023 7:03 pm, Anton Ertl wrote:
> dxforth <dxforth@gmail.com> writes:
>> Usenet groups can be owned/moderated by an individual?
>
> Moderated Usenet groups are moderated by individual moderators or
> moderation teams.

By what means?

dxforth <dxforth@gmail.com> writes:
>On 2/05/2023 7:03 pm, Anton Ertl wrote:
>> dxforth <dxforth@gmail.com> writes:
>>> Usenet groups can be owned/moderated by an individual?
>>
>> Moderated Usenet groups are moderated by individual moderators or
>> moderation teams.
>
>By what means?

When you post to a moderated newsgroup, proper newsreaders send the
posting as email to the moderation address. If the moderator approves
the posting, the moderator adds an "Approved:" header and posts the
posting. Newsservers drop postings to moderated newsgroups that are
not approved.

- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
New standard: https://forth-standard.org/
EuroForth 2022: https://euro.theforth.net

On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 11:56:23 AM UTC-7, John Hart wrote:
> The power of modern FPGA would blow people's minds, if they understood them.
> Advanced supercomputer have tens of thousands of chips with thousands of processes
> running in each one with more computing power than a PC. The fear about AAI taking
> over the world is based on the reality of what can be done with this power
> and how dangerous it would be if abused.
>
> Restrictions won't reduce the danger, they'll make it more dangerous, more concentrated.
> The solution to Big Tech having too much power is to empower people. Enable small business
> to use robotics and automation to compete. Something like an open source platform programed
> in Forth for automation would be the ideal tool to enable it. Focusing on solutions is the
> only way out of the mess we're in, Attacks and flame wars are a DEAD END, they accomplish
> NOTHING, and the din drowns out rational discourse.

On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 12:07:22 AM UTC-7, John Hart wrote:
> On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 5:06:51 PM UTC-7, Lorem Ipsum wrote:
> > What mess??? I must have missed something.
> > Rick C.
> Not your fault if you still rely on MSM for your news.
> America is in sharp decline on many fronts and MSM has been working overtime
> hiding it. The parts of our social economic system are strongly linked and
> a series of errors by the current administration, as serious as the Titanic
> hittting an iceberg, have occured. The only solution is to get productivity
> growing faster than debt to prevent runaway inflation, and that's going
> to require an autiomation revolution at the roots. The concentration of
> wealth by the Elite, not only stifles innovation it's extremely dangerous..
> After all, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

I remember that when I was writing MFX I was striving to succeed, so I
often worked late hours. John Hart worked late too. That's teamwork!
John Hart would often wander into my office carrying a 32-ounce cup
from Circle-K that was filled with what appeared to be lemonade.
He would deliver rambling monologues about weird off-topic subjects.
Here on comp.lang.forth he is lecturing Rick Collins on how AI could
take over the world, and how MSN is covering up the mess we are in.
John Hart is making a fool out of himself. For one thing, Rick Collins
is a nasty troll that I haven't responded to in many years, but John Hart
is treating him as a peer. This is just as dumb as treating Juergen Pintaske
as a peer! Rick Collins and Juergen Pintaske are pigs! They aren't my peers..
John Hart is mostly making a fool out of himself because he comes off as
a crackpot. I agree that the American economy is failing in pretty much the
same way that the Soviet economy failed in 1991, but what am I supposed to
do about it? Crackpot theories on internet forum aren't a positive contribution.

There were a wide variety of crackpot theories that John Hart would discourse
on, but he mostly was interested in the creationism and pro-life causes.
When I visited Testra a few years ago, shortly after Testra's attack against me on
comp.lang.forth began, John Hart told me that he was retired and that his new "job"
was railing against abortion on internet forums (the railing was done on internet forums;
the abortions were presumably done at Planned Parenthood). Now abortion has been
made illegal in Arizona --- this is presumably why John Hart is back to his old job of
developing the RACE processor --- here he is with a vaporware announcement!

On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 11:47:36 PM UTC-7, John Hart wrote:
> [Hugh] was a creative individual and like many creative
> individuals, might be difficult to work with.

John Hart was very difficult to work with. Those rambling monologues could
really weird out an employee! I thought of them as the "32-ounce discourses"
because he would carry around his 32-ounce Circle-K cup while pontificating..
I was suspicious that his drink was spiked, but I never bothered to get out of
my chair to smell his breath, so I don't know. A big part of my job was reeling
him in and getting him to just focus on the MiniForth development. I knew that
we would never succeed if we waste time worrying about AI taking over the world.
As for MSN, I don't care if it is better or worse than other free internet news. That
is like debating on whether it is worse to step in horse apples or cow patties.

Within the context of John Hart being the weirdest boss that I've ever had,
I find it quite insulting that he is now all over the internet warning all potential
employers that they must not hire me because I'm difficult to work with.
I was willing to put up with him being difficult to work with because I understood that
creative people usually are --- but now he denounces me for being difficult to work with.
I succeeded at writing MFX! This was despite getting zero support from John Hart
in regard to advice on how to write MFX, and despite John Hart's weirdness.
Instead of getting thanked, I get attacked for three decades running...

On 2/05/2023 1:24 pm, Hugh Aguilar wrote:
>
> I have only been banned from CLAX.

Didn't you say you were banned from the Win32Forth group? Not that it
mattered. Where is it today? Where are you today?

On Tuesday, 2 May 2023 at 22:36:17 UTC+1, Hugh Aguilar wrote:
> On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 11:56:23 AM UTC-7, John Hart wrote:
> > The power of modern FPGA would blow people's minds, if they understood them.
> > Advanced supercomputer have tens of thousands of chips with thousands of processes
> > running in each one with more computing power than a PC. The fear about AAI taking
> > over the world is based on the reality of what can be done with this power
> > and how dangerous it would be if abused.
> >
> > Restrictions won't reduce the danger, they'll make it more dangerous, more concentrated.
> > The solution to Big Tech having too much power is to empower people. Enable small business
> > to use robotics and automation to compete. Something like an open source platform programed
> > in Forth for automation would be the ideal tool to enable it. Focusing on solutions is the
> > only way out of the mess we're in, Attacks and flame wars are a DEAD END, they accomplish
> > NOTHING, and the din drowns out rational discourse.
>
> On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 12:07:22 AM UTC-7, John Hart wrote:
> > On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 5:06:51 PM UTC-7, Lorem Ipsum wrote:
> > > What mess??? I must have missed something.
> > > Rick C.
> > Not your fault if you still rely on MSM for your news.
> > America is in sharp decline on many fronts and MSM has been working overtime
> > hiding it. The parts of our social economic system are strongly linked and
> > a series of errors by the current administration, as serious as the Titanic
> > hittting an iceberg, have occured. The only solution is to get productivity
> > growing faster than debt to prevent runaway inflation, and that's going
> > to require an autiomation revolution at the roots. The concentration of
> > wealth by the Elite, not only stifles innovation it's extremely dangerous.
> > After all, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
>
> I remember that when I was writing MFX I was striving to succeed, so I
> often worked late hours. John Hart worked late too. That's teamwork!
> John Hart would often wander into my office carrying a 32-ounce cup
> from Circle-K that was filled with what appeared to be lemonade.
> He would deliver rambling monologues about weird off-topic subjects.
> Here on comp.lang.forth he is lecturing Rick Collins on how AI could
> take over the world, and how MSN is covering up the mess we are in.
> John Hart is making a fool out of himself. For one thing, Rick Collins
> is a nasty troll that I haven't responded to in many years, but John Hart
> is treating him as a peer. This is just as dumb as treating Juergen Pintaske
> as a peer! Rick Collins and Juergen Pintaske are pigs! They aren't my peers.
> John Hart is mostly making a fool out of himself because he comes off as
> a crackpot. I agree that the American economy is failing in pretty much the
> same way that the Soviet economy failed in 1991, but what am I supposed to
> do about it? Crackpot theories on internet forum aren't a positive contribution.
>
> There were a wide variety of crackpot theories that John Hart would discourse
> on, but he mostly was interested in the creationism and pro-life causes.
> When I visited Testra a few years ago, shortly after Testra's attack against me on
> comp.lang.forth began, John Hart told me that he was retired and that his new "job"
> was railing against abortion on internet forums (the railing was done on internet forums;
> the abortions were presumably done at Planned Parenthood). Now abortion has been
> made illegal in Arizona --- this is presumably why John Hart is back to his old job of
> developing the RACE processor --- here he is with a vaporware announcement!
> On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 11:47:36 PM UTC-7, John Hart wrote:
> > [Hugh] was a creative individual and like many creative
> > individuals, might be difficult to work with.
> John Hart was very difficult to work with. Those rambling monologues could
> really weird out an employee! I thought of them as the "32-ounce discourses"
> because he would carry around his 32-ounce Circle-K cup while pontificating.
> I was suspicious that his drink was spiked, but I never bothered to get out of
> my chair to smell his breath, so I don't know. A big part of my job was reeling
> him in and getting him to just focus on the MiniForth development. I knew that
> we would never succeed if we waste time worrying about AI taking over the world.
> As for MSN, I don't care if it is better or worse than other free internet news. That
> is like debating on whether it is worse to step in horse apples or cow patties.
>
> Within the context of John Hart being the weirdest boss that I've ever had,
> I find it quite insulting that he is now all over the internet warning all potential
> employers that they must not hire me because I'm difficult to work with.
> I was willing to put up with him being difficult to work with because I understood that
> creative people usually are --- but now he denounces me for being difficult to work with.
> I succeeded at writing MFX! This was despite getting zero support from John Hart
> in regard to advice on how to write MFX, and despite John Hart's weirdness.
> Instead of getting thanked, I get attacked for three decades running...

HUGH AQUILIAR - GO BACK INTO YOUR RABBIT HOLE.

ANOTHER BUNCH OF ATTACKS ON PEOPLE HERE FULL OF LIES WITHOUT ANY REASON.

On 2/05/2023 8:44 pm, Anton Ertl wrote:
> dxforth <dxforth@gmail.com> writes:
>> On 2/05/2023 7:03 pm, Anton Ertl wrote:
>>> dxforth <dxforth@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> Usenet groups can be owned/moderated by an individual?
>>>
>>> Moderated Usenet groups are moderated by individual moderators or
>>> moderation teams.
>>
>> By what means?
>
> When you post to a moderated newsgroup, proper newsreaders send the
> posting as email to the moderation address. If the moderator approves
> the posting, the moderator adds an "Approved:" header and posts the
> posting. Newsservers drop postings to moderated newsgroups that are
> not approved.

Hopefully these groups come with a warning adults will be treated
as if they were children incapable of doing their own censoring.
Rated G.

On Wednesday, 3 May 2023 at 07:22:48 UTC+1, dxforth wrote:
> On 2/05/2023 8:44 pm, Anton Ertl wrote:
> > dxforth <dxf...@gmail.com> writes:
> >> On 2/05/2023 7:03 pm, Anton Ertl wrote:
> >>> dxforth <dxf...@gmail.com> writes:
> >>>> Usenet groups can be owned/moderated by an individual?
> >>>
> >>> Moderated Usenet groups are moderated by individual moderators or
> >>> moderation teams.
> >>
> >> By what means?
> >
> > When you post to a moderated newsgroup, proper newsreaders send the
> > posting as email to the moderation address. If the moderator approves
> > the posting, the moderator adds an "Approved:" header and posts the
> > posting. Newsservers drop postings to moderated newsgroups that are
> > not approved.

> Hopefully these groups come with a warning adults will be treated
> as if they were children incapable of doing their own censoring.
> Rated G.

Rated G
A G rated film, in the United States,
means it is for all ages.
It is a rating of the Motion Picture Association
in which the organization believes is suitable for everyone,
and all ages are admitted.
Most G-rated films are children's movies.

On Tuesday, May 2, 2023 at 10:49:37 PM UTC-7, Jurgen Pitaske wrote:
> On Tuesday, 2 May 2023 at 22:36:17 UTC+1, Hugh Aguilar wrote:
> > On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 11:56:23 AM UTC-7, John Hart wrote:
> > > The power of modern FPGA would blow people's minds, if they understood them.
> > > Advanced supercomputer have tens of thousands of chips with thousands of processes
> > > running in each one with more computing power than a PC.
<clip>
>>> flame wars are a DEAD END, they accomplish NOTHING,
>>> and the din drowns out rational discourse.
<big clip>
The price of medium FPGAs has come down to the point dedicated processors are no longer
needed, Processor IP along with logic, easily fit for many applications. Our 16bit processor,
four motor control chanels, four high speed encoders, two PWM outputs, two SPI ports, an RS485
network interface and an RS232 port, fit in Lattice's 7000 LUT device with room to spare.

We've been working on the development system for 30 years. Started with a Karnaugh map
solver, (carmap) optomized for PLDs with a Forth program defining the function. When we switched
to FPGAs it became obvious a different approach was needed for both data and control.

The Forth community has always been interested in Forth processors. Forth, being extensible, is
the ideal language for an extensible processor. And the reason posting in this forum is to see if
there's any interest in an open source tool to design reconfigurable processors. If so I'll explain
the workings of the program.

jrh

On Friday, May 5, 2023 at 9:15:28 PM UTC-4, John Hart wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 2, 2023 at 10:49:37 PM UTC-7, Jurgen Pitaske wrote:
> > On Tuesday, 2 May 2023 at 22:36:17 UTC+1, Hugh Aguilar wrote:
> > > On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 11:56:23 AM UTC-7, John Hart wrote:
> > > > The power of modern FPGA would blow people's minds, if they understood them.
> > > > Advanced supercomputer have tens of thousands of chips with thousands of processes
> > > > running in each one with more computing power than a PC.
> <clip>
> >>> flame wars are a DEAD END, they accomplish NOTHING,
> >>> and the din drowns out rational discourse.
> <big clip>
> The price of medium FPGAs has come down to the point dedicated processors are no longer
> needed, Processor IP along with logic, easily fit for many applications. Our 16bit processor,
> four motor control chanels, four high speed encoders, two PWM outputs, two SPI ports, an RS485
> network interface and an RS232 port, fit in Lattice's 7000 LUT device with room to spare.
>
> We've been working on the development system for 30 years. Started with a Karnaugh map
> solver, (carmap) optomized for PLDs with a Forth program defining the function. When we switched
> to FPGAs it became obvious a different approach was needed for both data and control.
>
> The Forth community has always been interested in Forth processors. Forth, being extensible, is
> the ideal language for an extensible processor. And the reason posting in this forum is to see if
> there's any interest in an open source tool to design reconfigurable processors. If so I'll explain
> the workings of the program.

Rather than post it here, maybe it would be better to write it up to go with the design?

--

Rick C.

-+++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Saturday, 6 May 2023 at 02:15:28 UTC+1, John Hart wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 2, 2023 at 10:49:37 PM UTC-7, Jurgen Pitaske wrote:
> > On Tuesday, 2 May 2023 at 22:36:17 UTC+1, Hugh Aguilar wrote:
> > > On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 11:56:23 AM UTC-7, John Hart wrote:
> > > > The power of modern FPGA would blow people's minds, if they understood them.
> > > > Advanced supercomputer have tens of thousands of chips with thousands of processes
> > > > running in each one with more computing power than a PC.
> <clip>
> >>> flame wars are a DEAD END, they accomplish NOTHING,
> >>> and the din drowns out rational discourse.
> <big clip>
> The price of medium FPGAs has come down to the point dedicated processors are no longer
> needed, Processor IP along with logic, easily fit for many applications. Our 16bit processor,
> four motor control chanels, four high speed encoders, two PWM outputs, two SPI ports, an RS485
> network interface and an RS232 port, fit in Lattice's 7000 LUT device with room to spare.
>
> We've been working on the development system for 30 years. Started with a Karnaugh map
> solver, (carmap) optomized for PLDs with a Forth program defining the function. When we switched
> to FPGAs it became obvious a different approach was needed for both data and control.
>
> The Forth community has always been interested in Forth processors. Forth, being extensible, is
> the ideal language for an extensible processor. And the reason posting in this forum is to see if
> there's any interest in an open source tool to design reconfigurable processors. If so I'll explain
> the workings of the program.
>
> jrh

Really looking forward to some more of your work.
And I have a Lattice 7k board here.
If I remember correctly and it has not changed, it is easy using just the Lattice Programmer -
just to get started and see the LEDs flash and the Servos turn.
One option would be to use dropbox to store the files,
and a link here when news have happened.
Github as well.
The Forth facebook group would be an option to distribute the information.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/PROGRAMMINGFORTH
And the Minimalist group is very active
https://www.facebook.com/groups/minimalistcomputing

On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 6:33:13 PM UTC-7, dxforth wrote:
> On 27/04/2023 4:07 am, Hugh Aguilar wrote:
> >
> > I wrote MFX in 32-bit UR/Forth under a DOS-extender
> > in 1994. I was told that Testra had the sign an NDA for Ray Duncan in order to
> > obtain the UR/Forth source-code. Since that time, Testra has upgraded UR/Forth
> > to run under Windows, so they could continue to use UR/Forth all the way to 2023.
> > The NDA is still in effect. Testra can't distribute MFX or any of the other development
> > tools to anybody who doesn't also sign the NDA for Ray Duncan.
> It was true when they signed it. IP needs to be enforced and it's not clear who -
> if anyone - owns LMI's IP today. Certainly no one other than yourself has come
> forward to insist LMI's IP be respected.

An NDA never goes away.
An NDA hangs over the fool's head like the Sword of Damocles for the rest of the fool's life.
There is no expiration date on an NDA.
There is only wishful thinking and desperate hoping that the owner of the IP
(intellectual property) doesn't care anymore.
An NDA is a slam-dunk in a court of law though, so there is no reason to hope that
Ray Duncan will allow Testra to distribute UR/Forth (actually the upgraded UR/Forth that
runs on a modern Windows system). Distributing UR/Forth is a blatant violation of the NDA.
There is no reason why Ray Duncan wouldn't crush Testra like a cockroach under his boot.
He can sue Testra for everything that they are worth, and easily win. Why wouldn't he???

I think that the reason why John Hart is getting praise and enthusiastic encouragement
in this thread is that the comp.lang.forth crowd are hoping to obtain a modernized version
of UR/Forth to run under Windows. In all likelihood, UR/Forth generates faster code than
SwiftForth, which is abysmally slow. UR/Forth is certainly easier to use that SwiftForth.
For example, UR/Forth has a circular buffer for strings (my novice package does too,
and mine allows string generation to be nested, which UR/Forth didn't allow).
The comp.lang.forth crowd encourages John Hart to distribute UR/Forth so they can
obtain it, but they risk nothing because they didn't sign an NDA for Ray Duncan.
I didn't sign an NDA for Ray Duncan or Testra either (I've never signed an NDA anywhere).
So go ahead John "open-source" Hart! Distribute UR/Forth. Now that Stephen Pelc has
sabotaged VFX to not compile ANS-Forth anymore, I need a good Forth system --- I can
go back to using UR/Forth again, just like in the good old days before ANS-Forth
killed UR/Forth by declaring it to be non-standard --- you can get sued by Ray Duncan
and I won't care because the Sword of Damocles hangs over your head, not mine.

Tom Hart is the president of Testra and John Hart is the vice-president of Testra.
In a two-person company, the vice-president is the lowest of the low.
John Hart is essentially just an employee of his brother Tom Hart, not significantly
different than I was an employee of Testra. If John Hart distributes UR/Forth and
puts Testra in danger of getting destroyed in a lawsuit from Ray Duncan, it seems
likely that Tom Hart will terminate John Hart's employment. Then John Hart will be
a disgruntled ex-employee of Testra, not significantly different from me. After I
wrote MFX, Tom Hart had no further use for me, so I was let go and received no
credit for writing MFX. John Hart has built these motion-control boards, but
Tom Hart doesn't necessarily have any further use for his little brother. John Hart
can be let go from Testra and will receive no credit for all the design work that he did.

> Much like the priest who speaks for a
> God that can be seen or felt, threatening destruction if they don't get it.

DXforth always spouts pseudo-intellectual blither-blather like this. He's a twit!

On Sunday, May 7, 2023 at 2:52:42 PM UTC-4, Hugh Aguilar wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 6:33:13 PM UTC-7, dxforth wrote:
> > On 27/04/2023 4:07 am, Hugh Aguilar wrote:
> > >
> > > I wrote MFX in 32-bit UR/Forth under a DOS-extender
> > > in 1994. I was told that Testra had the sign an NDA for Ray Duncan in order to
> > > obtain the UR/Forth source-code. Since that time, Testra has upgraded UR/Forth
> > > to run under Windows, so they could continue to use UR/Forth all the way to 2023.
> > > The NDA is still in effect. Testra can't distribute MFX or any of the other development
> > > tools to anybody who doesn't also sign the NDA for Ray Duncan.

That may be correct, but only if the MFX source code was written without intent to share the code. An NDA is not poisonous like a license can be. Some of the open source licenses say that software modifying the licensed source must also be shared under the same license. So, in effect, any such software is "poisoned".

An NDA typically has as its purpose the goal of preventing the release of information about the protected source. Code written to be compatible with that source is not necessarily precluded from being shared openly. It would depend on the details of the NDA and of the code written with knowledge of the protected source.

> > It was true when they signed it. IP needs to be enforced and it's not clear who -
> > if anyone - owns LMI's IP today. Certainly no one other than yourself has come
> > forward to insist LMI's IP be respected.
>
> An NDA never goes away.

That depends on how it is written. I have seen time limitations on NDAs.

> An NDA hangs over the fool's head like the Sword of Damocles for the rest of the fool's life.
> There is no expiration date on an NDA.
> There is only wishful thinking and desperate hoping that the owner of the IP
> (intellectual property) doesn't care anymore.

There is typically an element of NDAs to end the protection of the NDA for any material that has come into the public domain by other means.

> An NDA is a slam-dunk in a court of law though, so there is no reason to hope that
> Ray Duncan will allow Testra to distribute UR/Forth (actually the upgraded UR/Forth that
> runs on a modern Windows system). Distributing UR/Forth is a blatant violation of the NDA.

You said the NDA was with Ray Duncan. So Ray Dunkin is exactly who can allow UR/Forth to be distributed if he wants. It would be wise to get that in writing, of course.

> There is no reason why Ray Duncan wouldn't crush Testra like a cockroach under his boot.
> He can sue Testra for everything that they are worth, and easily win. Why wouldn't he???

Because he gave permission for UR/Forth to be distributed?

> I think that the reason why John Hart is getting praise and enthusiastic encouragement
> in this thread is that the comp.lang.forth crowd are hoping to obtain a modernized version
> of UR/Forth to run under Windows. In all likelihood, UR/Forth generates faster code than
> SwiftForth, which is abysmally slow. UR/Forth is certainly easier to use that SwiftForth.
> For example, UR/Forth has a circular buffer for strings (my novice package does too,
> and mine allows string generation to be nested, which UR/Forth didn't allow).
> The comp.lang.forth crowd encourages John Hart to distribute UR/Forth so they can
> obtain it, but they risk nothing because they didn't sign an NDA for Ray Duncan.
> I didn't sign an NDA for Ray Duncan or Testra either (I've never signed an NDA anywhere).
> So go ahead John "open-source" Hart! Distribute UR/Forth. Now that Stephen Pelc has
> sabotaged VFX to not compile ANS-Forth anymore, I need a good Forth system --- I can
> go back to using UR/Forth again, just like in the good old days before ANS-Forth
> killed UR/Forth by declaring it to be non-standard --- you can get sued by Ray Duncan
> and I won't care because the Sword of Damocles hangs over your head, not mine.
>
> Tom Hart is the president of Testra and John Hart is the vice-president of Testra.
> In a two-person company, the vice-president is the lowest of the low.
> John Hart is essentially just an employee of his brother Tom Hart,

Perhaps you are not aware of ownership of companies. I don't know what type of company Testra is, but who has power has more to do with the structure of the company and who owns the majority of it.

> not significantly
> different than I was an employee of Testra. If John Hart distributes UR/Forth and
> puts Testra in danger of getting destroyed in a lawsuit from Ray Duncan, it seems
> likely that Tom Hart will terminate John Hart's employment. Then John Hart will be
> a disgruntled ex-employee of Testra, not significantly different from me. After I
> wrote MFX, Tom Hart had no further use for me, so I was let go and received no
> credit for writing MFX.

Very odd you say this. I have read myself where the Hart who posts here has acknowledged that, as an employee, you wrote MFX. They did let you go once they had no more work for you. That's what happens in companies. They are not welfare organizations. They are all about producing profit for the owners, and not much else.

> John Hart has built these motion-control boards, but
> Tom Hart doesn't necessarily have any further use for his little brother. John Hart
> can be let go from Testra and will receive no credit for all the design work that he did.

Except you don't know about their arrangement. So you can't say what is and what is not possible.

> > Much like the priest who speaks for a
> > God that can be seen or felt, threatening destruction if they don't get it.
>
> DXforth always spouts pseudo-intellectual blither-blather like this. He's a twit!

I can't disagree with you about the "pseudo-intellectual blither-blather", but he is clearly not a twit. Not many people posting here are twits, with a very few notable exceptions.

--

Rick C.

+--- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+--- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On 8/05/2023 4:52 am, Hugh Aguilar wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 6:33:13 PM UTC-7, dxforth wrote:
>> On 27/04/2023 4:07 am, Hugh Aguilar wrote:
>>>
>>> I wrote MFX in 32-bit UR/Forth under a DOS-extender
>>> in 1994. I was told that Testra had the sign an NDA for Ray Duncan in order to
>>> obtain the UR/Forth source-code. Since that time, Testra has upgraded UR/Forth
>>> to run under Windows, so they could continue to use UR/Forth all the way to 2023.
>>> The NDA is still in effect. Testra can't distribute MFX or any of the other development
>>> tools to anybody who doesn't also sign the NDA for Ray Duncan.
>> It was true when they signed it. IP needs to be enforced and it's not clear who -
>> if anyone - owns LMI's IP today. Certainly no one other than yourself has come
>> forward to insist LMI's IP be respected.
>
> An NDA never goes away.
> An NDA hangs over the fool's head like the Sword of Damocles for the rest of the fool's life.
> There is no expiration date on an NDA.
> There is only wishful thinking and desperate hoping that the owner of the IP
> (intellectual property) doesn't care anymore.
> An NDA is a slam-dunk in a court of law though, so there is no reason to hope that
> Ray Duncan will allow Testra to distribute UR/Forth (actually the upgraded UR/Forth that
> runs on a modern Windows system). Distributing UR/Forth is a blatant violation of the NDA.
> There is no reason why Ray Duncan wouldn't crush Testra like a cockroach under his boot.
> He can sue Testra for everything that they are worth, and easily win. Why wouldn't he???

Why would he? What could he claim to have lost? Everything goes away - except grudges
it would seem. The decision not to pursue a programming career was ultimately yours.
You started at Testra with nothing.

>> Much like the priest who speaks for a
>> God that can be seen or felt, threatening destruction if they don't get it.
>
> DXforth always spouts pseudo-intellectual blither-blather like this. He's a twit!

We all have our fantasies. Crushing cockroaches and leading forthers to the promised
land, thankfully aren't among mine.

On Saturday, May 6, 2023 at 12:09:32 AM UTC-7, Jurgen Pitaske wrote:

> Really looking forward to some more of your work.
> And I have a Lattice 7k board here.
> If I remember correctly and it has not changed, it is easy using just the Lattice Programmer -
> just to get started and see the LEDs flash and the Servos turn.
> One option would be to use dropbox to store the files,
> and a link here when news have happened.
> Github as well.
> The Forth facebook group would be an option to distribute the information..
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/PROGRAMMINGFORTH
> And the Minimalist group is very active
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/minimalistcomputing

We finally have a complete V file with all modules checked against the software simulation of a small set of 4th words.
Designing and getting Fpga4th to make the V file was more difficult than designing the 32bit 4th processor for our motion
control product. (16 cooridinated axis for our 7A 100V motor drivers, 2 cooridinated pwm outputs for lasers, printers etc,
a USB, SPI, rs485 and rs232 interface, 64Mb dram, 250Kb sram.)

It would be in our best interest for Fpga4th to become an open source project IF enough forth programers were interested
in continuing its development. Its based on an extension of Forth called 4thSets, which would also become
an open source project.

jrh

Reality is an information process, set in motion and sustained by God for a purpose.
Understanding the purpose is more important than knowing anything about anything.

On Saturday, 23 September 2023 at 01:52:41 UTC+1, John Hart wrote:
> On Saturday, May 6, 2023 at 12:09:32 AM UTC-7, Jurgen Pitaske wrote:
>
> > Really looking forward to some more of your work.
> > And I have a Lattice 7k board here.
> > If I remember correctly and it has not changed, it is easy using just the Lattice Programmer -
> > just to get started and see the LEDs flash and the Servos turn.
> > One option would be to use dropbox to store the files,
> > and a link here when news have happened.
> > Github as well.
> > The Forth facebook group would be an option to distribute the information.
> > https://www.facebook.com/groups/PROGRAMMINGFORTH
> > And the Minimalist group is very active
> > https://www.facebook.com/groups/minimalistcomputing
> We finally have a complete V file with all modules checked against the software simulation of a small set of 4th words.
> Designing and getting Fpga4th to make the V file was more difficult than designing the 32bit 4th processor for our motion
> control product. (16 cooridinated axis for our 7A 100V motor drivers, 2 cooridinated pwm outputs for lasers, printers etc,
> a USB, SPI, rs485 and rs232 interface, 64Mb dram, 250Kb sram.)
>
> It would be in our best interest for Fpga4th to become an open source project IF enough forth programers were interested
> in continuing its development. Its based on an extension of Forth called 4thSets, which would also become
> an open source project.
>
> jrh
>
> Reality is an information process, set in motion and sustained by God for a purpose.
> Understanding the purpose is more important than knowing anything about anything.

Thank you very much John for your work.

Tonight is the Forth online meeting.
Would it not be a good platform to present what you have achieved?
I assume there would be people there who would pick it up.

And I assume a platform might be as well the Robot group and CORE1
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1304548976637542

An application that people love might be another way to promote it.
Testra has been known for motor driving.
Would it not be intersting to have some examples here?
Option 1: control two simple Servos which drive around. There are many hardware kits around.
Option 2: Control 4 servos on OTTO - ok more fun but there should be a lot of ottos around.
Option 3: The MeArm needs to drive 4 servos.

And the same could be done using other motors.

And there are many mtorized @dogs@ around that need controllinhg ...

Is there any documentation available - even with a smaller prtion - tfor people to have a look and switch an LED on? ...

Forth Meeting:
September: SVFIG Zoom Meeting TODAY
go to: forth.org/zoom
**The Zoom Room is open 24-7, stop by and give it a try!
=+
There will be NO IN-PERSON meeting at Stanford! Zoom only!
=+
*** PLEASE NOTE 09:30 AM (Pacific Daylight Savings) START TIME
***All durations and descriptions are approximate or perhaps entirely inconsistent with what will eventually transpire.
=*

# AGENDA
=+
Ceremonial Starting of the Recorder
There will be a brief non-denominational observance of the beginning of the monthly recording of the Zoom session. Recordings will be posted to the SVFIG YouTube channel!

=+
A Slightly Different Forth Compiler Design --- Joseph O'Connor
The Creole Forth compiler has several unusual features which include the lack of a STATE variable. This presentation will discuss its design features and their advantages.
=+
Forth Day is Coming --- Kevin Appert
What will you talk about?!
Will it be all-zoom or shall we meet up?
=+
Demo Scene --- Bill Ragsdale
See eight demonstrations written in Forth ranging from high speed graphics, 16 way multitasking, video player to chess with an opening book
=+
A Day at the Vintage Computer Festival West - Dave Jaffe
"I will present a photo review of the exhibits at this year's West Coast Vintage Computer Festival." (postponed from last month)
=+
Single Mecrisp Core --- Christopher Lozinski
Hello. I did speak about "Review of Soft core Forth Processors" both at last months SVFIG meeting and at the Stockholm FPGA conference. I now have a single Mecrisp core running on the pico-ice, and would like to announce it.
=+
CORE I Update ---Don Golding
> boards are fabbed and delivered to the assembly house for stuffing. PCBWay forgot to make a stencil for the bottom side. I hope the assembly house can get one made locally (at greater cost) so I don't have to wait a week for PCBWay. Always something...
=+
Walk-ins, Rambles, Rumors, Reminiscences --- Everybody
=+
ADJOURNMENT
The recording will be stopped without ceremony. Good fellowship and conversation can continue in our tastefully furnished Zoom Room.
=+
COMING NEXT MONTH: (postponed from this month)
What I'm Currently Working On --- Samuel Falvo II
'A quick jaunt through Shoehorn and the project I'm using it on. A recap/status of ForthBox:20AE project.”
=+
Message Kevin Appert for more info! Send messages through Meetup-message, email, etc.
=*
Zoom meetings are recorded and presented on our YouTube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/c/SiliconValleyForthInterestGroup

On Saturday, 23 September 2023 at 01:52:41 UTC+1, John Hart wrote:
> On Saturday, May 6, 2023 at 12:09:32 AM UTC-7, Jurgen Pitaske wrote:
>
> > Really looking forward to some more of your work.
> > And I have a Lattice 7k board here.
> > If I remember correctly and it has not changed, it is easy using just the Lattice Programmer -
> > just to get started and see the LEDs flash and the Servos turn.
> > One option would be to use dropbox to store the files,
> > and a link here when news have happened.
> > Github as well.
> > The Forth facebook group would be an option to distribute the information.
> > https://www.facebook.com/groups/PROGRAMMINGFORTH
> > And the Minimalist group is very active
> > https://www.facebook.com/groups/minimalistcomputing
> We finally have a complete V file with all modules checked against the software simulation of a small set of 4th words.
> Designing and getting Fpga4th to make the V file was more difficult than designing the 32bit 4th processor for our motion
> control product. (16 cooridinated axis for our 7A 100V motor drivers, 2 cooridinated pwm outputs for lasers, printers etc,
> a USB, SPI, rs485 and rs232 interface, 64Mb dram, 250Kb sram.)
>
> It would be in our best interest for Fpga4th to become an open source project IF enough forth programers were interested
> in continuing its development. Its based on an extension of Forth called 4thSets, which would also become
> an open source project.
>
> jrh
>
> Reality is an information process, set in motion and sustained by God for a purpose.
> Understanding the purpose is more important than knowing anything about anything.

Is there any documentation available
- even just a smaller portion
- for people to have a look and switch an LED on? ...
Some of the people in the FIG Meeting might be very interested.
And it would be very interesting to know which FPGA Board could be used.
I hope it is a Lattice Board, as I have a few of those.
If that runs on some of the ones I have,
I would be glad to try it out and generate some documentation.

On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 9:09:22 AM UTC-7, Jurgen Pitaske wrote:
<clip>
> Is there any documentation available
> - even just a smaller portion
> - for people to have a look and switch an LED on? ...
> Some of the people in the FIG Meeting might be very interested.
> And it would be very interesting to know which FPGA Board could be used.

The target fpga is a LCMX02-7000. It only has a few K of internal memory so
an external memory is necessary to run a significant forth program.
I'll email you a block diagram of the processor. I won't have time for anything
else until I get the v file to compile and Forth is up and running.

jrh

On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 5:52:41 PM UTC-7, John Hart wrote:
> On Saturday, May 6, 2023 at 12:09:32 AM UTC-7, Jurgen Pitaske wrote:
>
> > Really looking forward to some more of your work.
> We finally have a complete V file...

John Hart accepts Juergen Pintaske as his peer! LOL
That really says quite a lot about John Hart!

> It would be in our best interest for Fpga4th to become an open source project
> IF enough forth programers were interested in continuing its development.
> Its based on an extension of Forth called 4thSets, which would also become
> an open source project.

Why is it in the best interests of Testra to make FPGA4TH and 4THSETS
open-source? Is it because Testra's software is full of bugs and you hope
that somebody will debug it for you?

You aren't any good at programming!
This is why you needed me to write MFX (assembler, simulator and
Forth cross-compiler for the MiniForth) --- you weren't capable of writing this
yourself, and your employeed Steve Brault wasn't capable either --- but you were
also ashamed of the fact that you needed to hire outside help, so you refused
to admit afterward that I had written MFX. The liar Tom Hart says:
--------------------------------------------------------------
[Hugh] had nothing to do with the processor itself,
that was all designed by John Hart and Steve Brault.
The PLD version was based upon our original Forth Engine done long before we ever ran across Hugh.
--------------------------------------------------------------

> Reality is an information process, set in motion and sustained by God for a purpose.
> Understanding the purpose is more important than knowing anything about anything.

John Hart is still pretending that he understands God's purpose! LOL
John Hart doesn't know anything about anything --- he is an arrogant clown.