On 1/25/2022 11:58 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 8:51:38 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 1/25/2022 11:21 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>
>>> zero longitude was chosen among other reasons because it was very close to magnetic north and actual north. I don't remember what the pole wander has done to that but since most of Europe is close enough to zero longitude that you can pretty much ignore magnetic correction. As for preventing damage to a compass magnet - don't hit it with a hammer on a hard surface. Compass magnets are very small and very light and it takes a great deal of force to demagnetize them. Also remember that magnetic force is logarithmic and drops rapidly as the distance from the source is increased. So a magnet in a compass isn't attracted to the possibly sheetmetal case but to the Earth's magnetic poles which are very much more attractive. Now, navigation maps show magnetic deviation. road maps do not require compass readings save in the oddest of situations.
>> Too many errors there to bother listing. It's just Tom being Tom.
>
> Frank, I gave citations. Why haven't you? Why are you under the mistaken belief that you are an authority on anything? From you previous comments we now know that you have break-downs and failures like everyone else but you simply don't mention them because then you could become less of an authority in your own eyes. Not that it matters because you're no authority at all in anyone's.

Really? Where are the citations in that paragraph?

Try this for a start on the history of the Prime Meridian:
https://www.rmg.co.uk/stories/topics/what-prime-meridian-why-it-greenwich
although that information is easily available elsewhere. It had next to
nothing to do with magnetic delclination.

I'm continually amazed that you, Tom, post so much blatant and obvious
foolery, so much that's so easy to prove wrong.

(Time for Tom to change the subject and ask "Well, how many compasses
have YOU hit with a hammer???)

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 12:11:15 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 1/25/2022 11:58 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 8:51:38 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> On 1/25/2022 11:21 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>
> >>> zero longitude was chosen among other reasons because it was very close to magnetic north and actual north. I don't remember what the pole wander has done to that but since most of Europe is close enough to zero longitude that you can pretty much ignore magnetic correction. As for preventing damage to a compass magnet - don't hit it with a hammer on a hard surface. Compass magnets are very small and very light and it takes a great deal of force to demagnetize them. Also remember that magnetic force is logarithmic and drops rapidly as the distance from the source is increased. So a magnet in a compass isn't attracted to the possibly sheetmetal case but to the Earth's magnetic poles which are very much more attractive. Now, navigation maps show magnetic deviation. road maps do not require compass readings save in the oddest of situations.
> >> Too many errors there to bother listing. It's just Tom being Tom.
> >
> > Frank, I gave citations. Why haven't you? Why are you under the mistaken belief that you are an authority on anything? From you previous comments we now know that you have break-downs and failures like everyone else but you simply don't mention them because then you could become less of an authority in your own eyes. Not that it matters because you're no authority at all in anyone's.
> Really? Where are the citations in that paragraph?

C'mon Frank, you know full well that when tommy claims he cited something, it means simply that he claimed it. No further vetting of his claims is necessary!

>
> Try this for a start on the history of the Prime Meridian:
> https://www.rmg.co.uk/stories/topics/what-prime-meridian-why-it-greenwich
> although that information is easily available elsewhere. It had next to
> nothing to do with magnetic delclination.
>
> I'm continually amazed that you, Tom, post so much blatant and obvious
> foolery, so much that's so easy to prove wrong.
>
> (Time for Tom to change the subject and ask "Well, how many compasses
> have YOU hit with a hammer???)
>
> --
> - Frank Krygowski

On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 9:11:15 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 1/25/2022 11:58 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 8:51:38 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> On 1/25/2022 11:21 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>
> >>> zero longitude was chosen among other reasons because it was very close to magnetic north and actual north. I don't remember what the pole wander has done to that but since most of Europe is close enough to zero longitude that you can pretty much ignore magnetic correction. As for preventing damage to a compass magnet - don't hit it with a hammer on a hard surface. Compass magnets are very small and very light and it takes a great deal of force to demagnetize them. Also remember that magnetic force is logarithmic and drops rapidly as the distance from the source is increased. So a magnet in a compass isn't attracted to the possibly sheetmetal case but to the Earth's magnetic poles which are very much more attractive. Now, navigation maps show magnetic deviation. road maps do not require compass readings save in the oddest of situations.
> >> Too many errors there to bother listing. It's just Tom being Tom.
> >
> > Frank, I gave citations. Why haven't you? Why are you under the mistaken belief that you are an authority on anything? From you previous comments we now know that you have break-downs and failures like everyone else but you simply don't mention them because then you could become less of an authority in your own eyes. Not that it matters because you're no authority at all in anyone's.
> Really? Where are the citations in that paragraph?
>
> Try this for a start on the history of the Prime Meridian:
> https://www.rmg.co.uk/stories/topics/what-prime-meridian-why-it-greenwich
> although that information is easily available elsewhere. It had next to
> nothing to do with magnetic delclination.
>
> I'm continually amazed that you, Tom, post so much blatant and obvious
> foolery, so much that's so easy to prove wrong.
>
> (Time for Tom to change the subject and ask "Well, how many compasses
> have YOU hit with a hammer???)

Frank, you continue to show an ignorance beyond belief. https://newatlas.com/science/true-magnetic-north-synch-greenwich/ Shows that Magnetic north is about to sync exactly to Greenwich observatory showing that it was NEVER far from alignment. You cannot keep yourself from being a damned fool. Why don't you tell us about the true zero meridian being 103 meters away from the observatory as if somehow that matters?

Greenwich WAS NOT chosen by England but by Americans who were a sea power in shipping. Every day, in every way, people that do not understand these sorts of things just love to talk about them.

On 1/25/2022 10:21 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 4:45:20 PM UTC-8, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
>> On Thursday, January 20, 2022 at 7:10:19 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 1/20/2022 4:08 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, January 20, 2022 at 12:38:29 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>> On 1/20/2022 2:14 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>> I hit the road shortly after that posting and besides it being 40 degrees, there was heavy fog with a visibility of 1/4 mile. I didn't like riding in traffic that cannot tell the difference between heavy fog and wet roads and the Daytona 500 so I got off of the main drag and road on the bike trail. Entering the bike trail there was a park ranger parked in such a manner that you could pass on the road. I think he got out to pick up some paper. But in the cold why would he leave his door half open? So I cut by on the grass verge that probably barely had enough traction being soaking wet for me to maneuver back onto the bike path.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Because of the fog and nothing to see I was watching the trail because of the cracks everywhere. I finally made it to the Oakland Airport which has a bike path along one side of the road. I road that into Alameda and there was so damn much traffic at the corner with the coffee shop on it that I just rode past and returned. As I made it to a main rode that feeds the industrial section down on Bay Farm Island I was rather surprised to see a large group of cyclist going the opposite direction. There must have been 20 cyclists in that group. This is a working day! Where are they getting that many people with that much time off? Because of the fog, I missed a lot of normal markers such as a bridge over a creek at the Oakland Colosseum. But no matter, the trail had people and riders on it but a lot less than usual.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This damned Garmin is going to have to be worked on more. One of the problems was the cadence worked fine for about 4 miles and then stopped working again. Since I'm using all the correct Garmin parts I can only assume that the trip magnet is losing its magnetism...
>>>>
>>>>> You certainly do have lots of problems! Even permanent magnets that go bad!
>>>>
>>>> Well, if I rode a 1985 touring bike with bar end friction shifters and a mechanical speedometer, I probably wouldn't have ant problems either.
>>> :-) Actually, Tom, I think you would. You remind me of this character
>>> from Lil' Abner
>>> http://www.deniskitchen.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/BP_240.B.JPG
>>> although Joe tended to be a jinx for other people. Your misfortune seems
>>> to fall on yourself.
>>>
>>> However, there's something to be said for sticking with technology you
>>> can understand. Hey Tom, have you tried a fixie with solid tires? :-)
>>>> Why don't you give us a dissertation on modern magnets, the materials they are made from and their relative strength and longevity?
>>> I'll start with some simple citations. When you disprove these using
>>> better information, I'll see if a rebuttal is justified.
>>>
>>> From https://www.sciencefocus.com/science/do-magnets-wear-out/
>>> "a modern samarium-cobalt magnet takes around 700 years to lose half its
>>> strength."
>>>
>>> From
>>> https://www.newscientist.com/lastword/mg24732911-800-does-magnetism-decay-over-time/
>>> "Modern magnets made of rare earth alloys may even last for centuries."
>>
>>>
>>> From https://mpimagnet.com/education-center/how-long-will-your-magnet-last
>>> "Your permanent magnet should lose no more than 1% of its magnetic
>>> strength over a period of 100 years provided it is specified and cared
>>> for properly."
>>>
>> Frank, how do you properly care for a magnet? I have a magnet I used inside my map case on top of my handlebar bag. Guided me all over Europe in 1992. Along with the paper maps I put in the map case too. Its a thin plastic piece with a spinning arrow inside. Points North I presume. Guided me from Rome Italy up to north Germany and that seawall dike along the north edge of The Netherlands. Lou knows which one I am talking about. They have a bike trail on the top of the dike. 20-30 miles long. I have not cared for my magnet any since 1992. Didn't really take care of it too much during the summer of 1992 either. Just left it inside the plastic case. Would it still work today since I have not cared for it at all for the past 30 years? Do you think it would point South today instead of North since I have not cared for it?
>
> zero longitude was chosen among other reasons because it was very close to magnetic north and actual north. I don't remember what the pole wander has done to that but since most of Europe is close enough to zero longitude that you can pretty much ignore magnetic correction. As for preventing damage to a compass magnet - don't hit it with a hammer on a hard surface. Compass magnets are very small and very light and it takes a great deal of force to demagnetize them. Also remember that magnetic force is logarithmic and drops rapidly as the distance from the source is increased. So a magnet in a compass isn't attracted to the possibly sheetmetal case but to the Earth's magnetic poles which are very much more attractive. Now, navigation maps show magnetic deviation. road maps do not require compass readings save in the oddest of situations.
>

Didn't know that. I thought it was Greenwich because that's
where the Royal Observatory was sited. Turns out that from
time to time declination is minimal at Greenwich:

https://newatlas.com/science/true-magnetic-north-synch-greenwich/

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 9:47:17 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 1/25/2022 10:21 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 4:45:20 PM UTC-8, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> On Thursday, January 20, 2022 at 7:10:19 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>> On 1/20/2022 4:08 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>> On Thursday, January 20, 2022 at 12:38:29 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>>>> On 1/20/2022 2:14 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>> I hit the road shortly after that posting and besides it being 40 degrees, there was heavy fog with a visibility of 1/4 mile. I didn't like riding in traffic that cannot tell the difference between heavy fog and wet roads and the Daytona 500 so I got off of the main drag and road on the bike trail. Entering the bike trail there was a park ranger parked in such a manner that you could pass on the road. I think he got out to pick up some paper. But in the cold why would he leave his door half open? So I cut by on the grass verge that probably barely had enough traction being soaking wet for me to maneuver back onto the bike path.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Because of the fog and nothing to see I was watching the trail because of the cracks everywhere. I finally made it to the Oakland Airport which has a bike path along one side of the road. I road that into Alameda and there was so damn much traffic at the corner with the coffee shop on it that I just rode past and returned. As I made it to a main rode that feeds the industrial section down on Bay Farm Island I was rather surprised to see a large group of cyclist going the opposite direction. There must have been 20 cyclists in that group. This is a working day! Where are they getting that many people with that much time off? Because of the fog, I missed a lot of normal markers such as a bridge over a creek at the Oakland Colosseum. But no matter, the trail had people and riders on it but a lot less than usual.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> This damned Garmin is going to have to be worked on more. One of the problems was the cadence worked fine for about 4 miles and then stopped working again. Since I'm using all the correct Garmin parts I can only assume that the trip magnet is losing its magnetism...
> >>>>
> >>>>> You certainly do have lots of problems! Even permanent magnets that go bad!
> >>>>
> >>>> Well, if I rode a 1985 touring bike with bar end friction shifters and a mechanical speedometer, I probably wouldn't have ant problems either.
> >>> :-) Actually, Tom, I think you would. You remind me of this character
> >>> from Lil' Abner
> >>> http://www.deniskitchen.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/BP_240.B.JPG
> >>> although Joe tended to be a jinx for other people. Your misfortune seems
> >>> to fall on yourself.
> >>>
> >>> However, there's something to be said for sticking with technology you
> >>> can understand. Hey Tom, have you tried a fixie with solid tires? :-)
> >>>> Why don't you give us a dissertation on modern magnets, the materials they are made from and their relative strength and longevity?
> >>> I'll start with some simple citations. When you disprove these using
> >>> better information, I'll see if a rebuttal is justified.
> >>>
> >>> From https://www.sciencefocus.com/science/do-magnets-wear-out/
> >>> "a modern samarium-cobalt magnet takes around 700 years to lose half its
> >>> strength."
> >>>
> >>> From
> >>> https://www.newscientist.com/lastword/mg24732911-800-does-magnetism-decay-over-time/
> >>> "Modern magnets made of rare earth alloys may even last for centuries.."
> >>
> >>>
> >>> From https://mpimagnet.com/education-center/how-long-will-your-magnet-last
> >>> "Your permanent magnet should lose no more than 1% of its magnetic
> >>> strength over a period of 100 years provided it is specified and cared
> >>> for properly."
> >>>
> >> Frank, how do you properly care for a magnet? I have a magnet I used inside my map case on top of my handlebar bag. Guided me all over Europe in 1992. Along with the paper maps I put in the map case too. Its a thin plastic piece with a spinning arrow inside. Points North I presume. Guided me from Rome Italy up to north Germany and that seawall dike along the north edge of The Netherlands. Lou knows which one I am talking about. They have a bike trail on the top of the dike. 20-30 miles long. I have not cared for my magnet any since 1992. Didn't really take care of it too much during the summer of 1992 either. Just left it inside the plastic case. Would it still work today since I have not cared for it at all for the past 30 years? Do you think it would point South today instead of North since I have not cared for it?
> >
> > zero longitude was chosen among other reasons because it was very close to magnetic north and actual north. I don't remember what the pole wander has done to that but since most of Europe is close enough to zero longitude that you can pretty much ignore magnetic correction. As for preventing damage to a compass magnet - don't hit it with a hammer on a hard surface. Compass magnets are very small and very light and it takes a great deal of force to demagnetize them. Also remember that magnetic force is logarithmic and drops rapidly as the distance from the source is increased. So a magnet in a compass isn't attracted to the possibly sheetmetal case but to the Earth's magnetic poles which are very much more attractive. Now, navigation maps show magnetic deviation. road maps do not require compass readings save in the oddest of situations.
> >
> Didn't know that. I thought it was Greenwich because that's
> where the Royal Observatory was sited. Turns out that from
> time to time declination is minimal at Greenwich:
>
> https://newatlas.com/science/true-magnetic-north-synch-greenwich/

A sailing ship could leave New York and head magnetic west and would end up in the English Channel. Food and staples were huge freight items from America so it was important to have a means of arriving with the least delay.

On 1/25/2022 11:51 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 9:47:17 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 1/25/2022 10:21 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 4:45:20 PM UTC-8, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, January 20, 2022 at 7:10:19 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>> On 1/20/2022 4:08 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>> On Thursday, January 20, 2022 at 12:38:29 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>> On 1/20/2022 2:14 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>> I hit the road shortly after that posting and besides it being 40 degrees, there was heavy fog with a visibility of 1/4 mile. I didn't like riding in traffic that cannot tell the difference between heavy fog and wet roads and the Daytona 500 so I got off of the main drag and road on the bike trail. Entering the bike trail there was a park ranger parked in such a manner that you could pass on the road. I think he got out to pick up some paper. But in the cold why would he leave his door half open? So I cut by on the grass verge that probably barely had enough traction being soaking wet for me to maneuver back onto the bike path.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Because of the fog and nothing to see I was watching the trail because of the cracks everywhere. I finally made it to the Oakland Airport which has a bike path along one side of the road. I road that into Alameda and there was so damn much traffic at the corner with the coffee shop on it that I just rode past and returned. As I made it to a main rode that feeds the industrial section down on Bay Farm Island I was rather surprised to see a large group of cyclist going the opposite direction. There must have been 20 cyclists in that group. This is a working day! Where are they getting that many people with that much time off? Because of the fog, I missed a lot of normal markers such as a bridge over a creek at the Oakland Colosseum. But no matter, the trail had people and riders on it but a lot less than usual.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This damned Garmin is going to have to be worked on more. One of the problems was the cadence worked fine for about 4 miles and then stopped working again. Since I'm using all the correct Garmin parts I can only assume that the trip magnet is losing its magnetism...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You certainly do have lots of problems! Even permanent magnets that go bad!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, if I rode a 1985 touring bike with bar end friction shifters and a mechanical speedometer, I probably wouldn't have ant problems either.
>>>>> :-) Actually, Tom, I think you would. You remind me of this character
>>>>> from Lil' Abner
>>>>> http://www.deniskitchen.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/BP_240.B.JPG
>>>>> although Joe tended to be a jinx for other people. Your misfortune seems
>>>>> to fall on yourself.
>>>>>
>>>>> However, there's something to be said for sticking with technology you
>>>>> can understand. Hey Tom, have you tried a fixie with solid tires? :-)
>>>>>> Why don't you give us a dissertation on modern magnets, the materials they are made from and their relative strength and longevity?
>>>>> I'll start with some simple citations. When you disprove these using
>>>>> better information, I'll see if a rebuttal is justified.
>>>>>
>>>>> From https://www.sciencefocus.com/science/do-magnets-wear-out/
>>>>> "a modern samarium-cobalt magnet takes around 700 years to lose half its
>>>>> strength."
>>>>>
>>>>> From
>>>>> https://www.newscientist.com/lastword/mg24732911-800-does-magnetism-decay-over-time/
>>>>> "Modern magnets made of rare earth alloys may even last for centuries."
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From https://mpimagnet.com/education-center/how-long-will-your-magnet-last
>>>>> "Your permanent magnet should lose no more than 1% of its magnetic
>>>>> strength over a period of 100 years provided it is specified and cared
>>>>> for properly."
>>>>>
>>>> Frank, how do you properly care for a magnet? I have a magnet I used inside my map case on top of my handlebar bag. Guided me all over Europe in 1992. Along with the paper maps I put in the map case too. Its a thin plastic piece with a spinning arrow inside. Points North I presume. Guided me from Rome Italy up to north Germany and that seawall dike along the north edge of The Netherlands. Lou knows which one I am talking about. They have a bike trail on the top of the dike. 20-30 miles long. I have not cared for my magnet any since 1992. Didn't really take care of it too much during the summer of 1992 either. Just left it inside the plastic case. Would it still work today since I have not cared for it at all for the past 30 years? Do you think it would point South today instead of North since I have not cared for it?
>>>
>>> zero longitude was chosen among other reasons because it was very close to magnetic north and actual north. I don't remember what the pole wander has done to that but since most of Europe is close enough to zero longitude that you can pretty much ignore magnetic correction. As for preventing damage to a compass magnet - don't hit it with a hammer on a hard surface. Compass magnets are very small and very light and it takes a great deal of force to demagnetize them. Also remember that magnetic force is logarithmic and drops rapidly as the distance from the source is increased. So a magnet in a compass isn't attracted to the possibly sheetmetal case but to the Earth's magnetic poles which are very much more attractive. Now, navigation maps show magnetic deviation. road maps do not require compass readings save in the oddest of situations.
>>>
>> Didn't know that. I thought it was Greenwich because that's
>> where the Royal Observatory was sited. Turns out that from
>> time to time declination is minimal at Greenwich:
>>
>> https://newatlas.com/science/true-magnetic-north-synch-greenwich/
>
> A sailing ship could leave New York and head magnetic west and would end up in the English Channel. Food and staples were huge freight items from America so it was important to have a means of arriving with the least delay.
>

Sorry but a sailing ship headed due west from NYC would run
smack into New Jersey.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 1/25/2022 12:43 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 9:11:15 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 1/25/2022 11:58 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 8:51:38 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>> On 1/25/2022 11:21 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> zero longitude was chosen among other reasons because it was very close to magnetic north and actual north. I don't remember what the pole wander has done to that but since most of Europe is close enough to zero longitude that you can pretty much ignore magnetic correction. As for preventing damage to a compass magnet - don't hit it with a hammer on a hard surface. Compass magnets are very small and very light and it takes a great deal of force to demagnetize them. Also remember that magnetic force is logarithmic and drops rapidly as the distance from the source is increased. So a magnet in a compass isn't attracted to the possibly sheetmetal case but to the Earth's magnetic poles which are very much more attractive. Now, navigation maps show magnetic deviation. road maps do not require compass readings save in the oddest of situations.
>>>> Too many errors there to bother listing. It's just Tom being Tom.
>>>
>>> Frank, I gave citations. Why haven't you? Why are you under the mistaken belief that you are an authority on anything? From you previous comments we now know that you have break-downs and failures like everyone else but you simply don't mention them because then you could become less of an authority in your own eyes. Not that it matters because you're no authority at all in anyone's.
>> Really? Where are the citations in that paragraph?
>>
>> Try this for a start on the history of the Prime Meridian:
>> https://www.rmg.co.uk/stories/topics/what-prime-meridian-why-it-greenwich
>> although that information is easily available elsewhere. It had next to
>> nothing to do with magnetic delclination.
>>
>> I'm continually amazed that you, Tom, post so much blatant and obvious
>> foolery, so much that's so easy to prove wrong.
>>
>> (Time for Tom to change the subject and ask "Well, how many compasses
>> have YOU hit with a hammer???)
>
> Frank, you continue to show an ignorance beyond belief. https://newatlas.com/science/true-magnetic-north-synch-greenwich/ Shows that Magnetic north is about to sync exactly to Greenwich observatory showing that it was NEVER far from alignment. You cannot keep yourself from being a damned fool. Why don't you tell us about the true zero meridian being 103 meters away from the observatory as if somehow that matters?
>
> Greenwich WAS NOT chosen by England but by Americans who were a sea power in shipping. Every day, in every way, people that do not understand these sorts of things just love to talk about them.

You're losing track of the conversation again. Your particular error was
in claiming that Greenwich was chosen _because_ it had near zero
declination. That's simply not true.

Why won't your wife help you with your reading comprehension?

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 1/25/2022 12:51 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 9:47:17 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 1/25/2022 10:21 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 4:45:20 PM UTC-8, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, January 20, 2022 at 7:10:19 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>> On 1/20/2022 4:08 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>> On Thursday, January 20, 2022 at 12:38:29 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>> On 1/20/2022 2:14 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>> I hit the road shortly after that posting and besides it being 40 degrees, there was heavy fog with a visibility of 1/4 mile. I didn't like riding in traffic that cannot tell the difference between heavy fog and wet roads and the Daytona 500 so I got off of the main drag and road on the bike trail. Entering the bike trail there was a park ranger parked in such a manner that you could pass on the road. I think he got out to pick up some paper. But in the cold why would he leave his door half open? So I cut by on the grass verge that probably barely had enough traction being soaking wet for me to maneuver back onto the bike path.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Because of the fog and nothing to see I was watching the trail because of the cracks everywhere. I finally made it to the Oakland Airport which has a bike path along one side of the road. I road that into Alameda and there was so damn much traffic at the corner with the coffee shop on it that I just rode past and returned. As I made it to a main rode that feeds the industrial section down on Bay Farm Island I was rather surprised to see a large group of cyclist going the opposite direction. There must have been 20 cyclists in that group. This is a working day! Where are they getting that many people with that much time off? Because of the fog, I missed a lot of normal markers such as a bridge over a creek at the Oakland Colosseum. But no matter, the trail had people and riders on it but a lot less than usual.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This damned Garmin is going to have to be worked on more. One of the problems was the cadence worked fine for about 4 miles and then stopped working again. Since I'm using all the correct Garmin parts I can only assume that the trip magnet is losing its magnetism...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You certainly do have lots of problems! Even permanent magnets that go bad!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, if I rode a 1985 touring bike with bar end friction shifters and a mechanical speedometer, I probably wouldn't have ant problems either.
>>>>> :-) Actually, Tom, I think you would. You remind me of this character
>>>>> from Lil' Abner
>>>>> http://www.deniskitchen.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/BP_240.B.JPG
>>>>> although Joe tended to be a jinx for other people. Your misfortune seems
>>>>> to fall on yourself.
>>>>>
>>>>> However, there's something to be said for sticking with technology you
>>>>> can understand. Hey Tom, have you tried a fixie with solid tires? :-)
>>>>>> Why don't you give us a dissertation on modern magnets, the materials they are made from and their relative strength and longevity?
>>>>> I'll start with some simple citations. When you disprove these using
>>>>> better information, I'll see if a rebuttal is justified.
>>>>>
>>>>> From https://www.sciencefocus.com/science/do-magnets-wear-out/
>>>>> "a modern samarium-cobalt magnet takes around 700 years to lose half its
>>>>> strength."
>>>>>
>>>>> From
>>>>> https://www.newscientist.com/lastword/mg24732911-800-does-magnetism-decay-over-time/
>>>>> "Modern magnets made of rare earth alloys may even last for centuries."
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From https://mpimagnet.com/education-center/how-long-will-your-magnet-last
>>>>> "Your permanent magnet should lose no more than 1% of its magnetic
>>>>> strength over a period of 100 years provided it is specified and cared
>>>>> for properly."
>>>>>
>>>> Frank, how do you properly care for a magnet? I have a magnet I used inside my map case on top of my handlebar bag. Guided me all over Europe in 1992. Along with the paper maps I put in the map case too. Its a thin plastic piece with a spinning arrow inside. Points North I presume. Guided me from Rome Italy up to north Germany and that seawall dike along the north edge of The Netherlands. Lou knows which one I am talking about. They have a bike trail on the top of the dike. 20-30 miles long. I have not cared for my magnet any since 1992. Didn't really take care of it too much during the summer of 1992 either. Just left it inside the plastic case. Would it still work today since I have not cared for it at all for the past 30 years? Do you think it would point South today instead of North since I have not cared for it?
>>>
>>> zero longitude was chosen among other reasons because it was very close to magnetic north and actual north. I don't remember what the pole wander has done to that but since most of Europe is close enough to zero longitude that you can pretty much ignore magnetic correction. As for preventing damage to a compass magnet - don't hit it with a hammer on a hard surface. Compass magnets are very small and very light and it takes a great deal of force to demagnetize them. Also remember that magnetic force is logarithmic and drops rapidly as the distance from the source is increased. So a magnet in a compass isn't attracted to the possibly sheetmetal case but to the Earth's magnetic poles which are very much more attractive. Now, navigation maps show magnetic deviation. road maps do not require compass readings save in the oddest of situations.
>>>
>> Didn't know that. I thought it was Greenwich because that's
>> where the Royal Observatory was sited. Turns out that from
>> time to time declination is minimal at Greenwich:
>>
>> https://newatlas.com/science/true-magnetic-north-synch-greenwich/
>
> A sailing ship could leave New York and head magnetic west and would end up in the English Channel. Food and staples were huge freight items from America so it was important to have a means of arriving with the least delay.

SMH

--
- Frank Krygowski

Am 25.01.2022 um 18:58 schrieb AMuzi:
> On 1/25/2022 11:51 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 9:47:17 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 1/25/2022 10:21 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 4:45:20 PM UTC-8,
>>>> russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, January 20, 2022 at 7:10:19 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/20/2022 4:08 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>> On Thursday, January 20, 2022 at 12:38:29 PM UTC-8, Frank
>>>>>>> Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 1/20/2022 2:14 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I hit the road shortly after that posting and besides it being
>>>>>>>>> 40 degrees, there was heavy fog with a visibility of 1/4 mile.
>>>>>>>>> I didn't like riding in traffic that cannot tell the difference
>>>>>>>>> between heavy fog and wet roads and the Daytona 500 so I got
>>>>>>>>> off of the main drag and road on the bike trail. Entering the
>>>>>>>>> bike trail there was a park ranger parked in such a manner that
>>>>>>>>> you could pass on the road. I think he got out to pick up some
>>>>>>>>> paper. But in the cold why would he leave his door half open?
>>>>>>>>> So I cut by on the grass verge that probably barely had enough
>>>>>>>>> traction being soaking wet for me to maneuver back onto the
>>>>>>>>> bike path.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Because of the fog and nothing to see I was watching the trail
>>>>>>>>> because of the cracks everywhere. I finally made it to the
>>>>>>>>> Oakland Airport which has a bike path along one side of the
>>>>>>>>> road. I road that into Alameda and there was so damn much
>>>>>>>>> traffic at the corner with the coffee shop on it that I just
>>>>>>>>> rode past and returned. As I made it to a main rode that feeds
>>>>>>>>> the industrial section down on Bay Farm Island I was rather
>>>>>>>>> surprised to see a large group of cyclist going the opposite
>>>>>>>>> direction. There must have been 20 cyclists in that group. This
>>>>>>>>> is a working day! Where are they getting that many people with
>>>>>>>>> that much time off? Because of the fog, I missed a lot of
>>>>>>>>> normal markers such as a bridge over a creek at the Oakland
>>>>>>>>> Colosseum. But no matter, the trail had people and riders on it
>>>>>>>>> but a lot less than usual.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This damned Garmin is going to have to be worked on more. One
>>>>>>>>> of the problems was the cadence worked fine for about 4 miles
>>>>>>>>> and then stopped working again. Since I'm using all the correct
>>>>>>>>> Garmin parts I can only assume that the trip magnet is losing
>>>>>>>>> its magnetism...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You certainly do have lots of problems! Even permanent magnets
>>>>>>>> that go bad!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well, if I rode a 1985 touring bike with bar end friction
>>>>>>> shifters and a mechanical speedometer, I probably wouldn't have
>>>>>>> ant problems either.
>>>>>> :-) Actually, Tom, I think you would. You remind me of this character
>>>>>> from Lil' Abner
>>>>>> http://www.deniskitchen.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/BP_240.B.JPG
>>>>>> although Joe tended to be a jinx for other people. Your misfortune
>>>>>> seems
>>>>>> to fall on yourself.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> However, there's something to be said for sticking with technology
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> can understand. Hey Tom, have you tried a fixie with solid tires? :-)
>>>>>>> Why don't you give us a dissertation on modern magnets, the
>>>>>>> materials they are made from and their relative strength and
>>>>>>> longevity?
>>>>>> I'll start with some simple citations. When you disprove these using
>>>>>> better information, I'll see if a rebuttal is justified.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  From https://www.sciencefocus.com/science/do-magnets-wear-out/
>>>>>> "a modern samarium-cobalt magnet takes around 700 years to lose
>>>>>> half its
>>>>>> strength."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From
>>>>>> https://www.newscientist.com/lastword/mg24732911-800-does-magnetism-decay-over-time/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Modern magnets made of rare earth alloys may even last for
>>>>>> centuries."
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  From
>>>>>> https://mpimagnet.com/education-center/how-long-will-your-magnet-last
>>>>>> "Your permanent magnet should lose no more than 1% of its magnetic
>>>>>> strength over a period of 100 years provided it is specified and
>>>>>> cared
>>>>>> for properly."
>>>>>>
>>>>> Frank, how do you properly care for a magnet? I have a magnet I
>>>>> used inside my map case on top of my handlebar bag. Guided me all
>>>>> over Europe in 1992. Along with the paper maps I put in the map
>>>>> case too. Its a thin plastic piece with a spinning arrow inside.
>>>>> Points North I presume. Guided me from Rome Italy up to north
>>>>> Germany and that seawall dike along the north edge of The
>>>>> Netherlands. Lou knows which one I am talking about. They have a
>>>>> bike trail on the top of the dike. 20-30 miles long. I have not
>>>>> cared for my magnet any since 1992. Didn't really take care of it
>>>>> too much during the summer of 1992 either. Just left it inside the
>>>>> plastic case. Would it still work today since I have not cared for
>>>>> it at all for the past 30 years? Do you think it would point South
>>>>> today instead of North since I have not cared for it?
>>>>
>>>> zero longitude was chosen among other reasons because it was very
>>>> close to magnetic north and actual north. I don't remember what the
>>>> pole wander has done to that but since most of Europe is close
>>>> enough to zero longitude that you can pretty much ignore magnetic
>>>> correction. As for preventing damage to a compass magnet - don't hit
>>>> it with a hammer on a hard surface. Compass magnets are very small
>>>> and very light and it takes a great deal of force to demagnetize
>>>> them. Also remember that magnetic force is logarithmic and drops
>>>> rapidly as the distance from the source is increased. So a magnet in
>>>> a compass isn't attracted to the possibly sheetmetal case but to the
>>>> Earth's magnetic poles which are very much more attractive. Now,
>>>> navigation maps show magnetic deviation. road maps do not require
>>>> compass readings save in the oddest of situations.
>>>>
>>> Didn't know that. I thought it was Greenwich because that's
>>> where the Royal Observatory was sited. Turns out that from
>>> time to time declination is minimal at Greenwich:
>>>
>>> https://newatlas.com/science/true-magnetic-north-synch-greenwich/
>>
>> A sailing ship could leave New York and head magnetic west and  would
>> end up in the English Channel. Food and staples were huge freight
>> items from America so it was important to have a means of arriving
>> with the least delay.

>
> Sorry but a sailing ship headed due west from NYC would run smack into
> New Jersey.

And a sailing ship heading due East would reach Portugal. Eastwards
bound, they'd try to stay in the main Gulf Stream most of the time,
while Westward bound, they`d try to avoid the Gulf Stream by heading
towards Labrador. A few hundred miles detour is less important than
good winds and waves.

On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 12:43:54 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 9:11:15 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 1/25/2022 11:58 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 8:51:38 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > >> On 1/25/2022 11:21 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> zero longitude was chosen among other reasons because it was very close to magnetic north and actual north. I don't remember what the pole wander has done to that but since most of Europe is close enough to zero longitude that you can pretty much ignore magnetic correction. As for preventing damage to a compass magnet - don't hit it with a hammer on a hard surface. Compass magnets are very small and very light and it takes a great deal of force to demagnetize them. Also remember that magnetic force is logarithmic and drops rapidly as the distance from the source is increased. So a magnet in a compass isn't attracted to the possibly sheetmetal case but to the Earth's magnetic poles which are very much more attractive. Now, navigation maps show magnetic deviation. road maps do not require compass readings save in the oddest of situations.
> > >> Too many errors there to bother listing. It's just Tom being Tom.
> > >
> > > Frank, I gave citations. Why haven't you? Why are you under the mistaken belief that you are an authority on anything? From you previous comments we now know that you have break-downs and failures like everyone else but you simply don't mention them because then you could become less of an authority in your own eyes. Not that it matters because you're no authority at all in anyone's.
> > Really? Where are the citations in that paragraph?
> >
> > Try this for a start on the history of the Prime Meridian:
> > https://www.rmg.co.uk/stories/topics/what-prime-meridian-why-it-greenwich
> > although that information is easily available elsewhere. It had next to
> > nothing to do with magnetic delclination.
> >
> > I'm continually amazed that you, Tom, post so much blatant and obvious
> > foolery, so much that's so easy to prove wrong.
> >
> > (Time for Tom to change the subject and ask "Well, how many compasses
> > have YOU hit with a hammer???)
> Frank, you continue to show an ignorance beyond belief. https://newatlas.com/science/true-magnetic-north-synch-greenwich/ Shows that Magnetic north is about to sync exactly to Greenwich observatory showing that it was NEVER far from alignment. You cannot keep yourself from being a damned fool. Why don't you tell us about the true zero meridian being 103 meters away from the observatory as if somehow that matters?
>
> Greenwich WAS NOT chosen by England but by Americans who were a sea power in shipping. Every day, in every way, people that do not understand these sorts of things just love to talk about them.

From tommy's link:
"Then there is magnetic north, which is what you read on a magnetic compass and changes as the magnetic north pole, which is located hundreds of miles from the north pole,"

103 feet....hundreds of miles....meh, no biggie.
Then.

"the Royal Greenwich observatory that defines the prime or zero meridian of longitude and it was here that a magnetic observatory operated from 1676 to 1836,"

So now according to tommy, the americans were enough of a super power in shipping that they forced england to use greenwich - 100 years before the revolutionary war.

Nice going sparky - proving once again "Every day, in every way, people that do not understand these sorts of things just love to talk about them."

shut the fuck up tommy.

On 1/25/2022 12:12 PM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
> Am 25.01.2022 um 18:58 schrieb AMuzi:
>> On 1/25/2022 11:51 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 9:47:17 AM UTC-8, AMuzi
>>> wrote:
>>>> On 1/25/2022 10:21 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>> On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 4:45:20 PM UTC-8,
>>>>> russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Thursday, January 20, 2022 at 7:10:19 PM UTC-6,
>>>>>> Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>> On 1/20/2022 4:08 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Thursday, January 20, 2022 at 12:38:29 PM UTC-8,
>>>>>>>> Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 1/20/2022 2:14 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I hit the road shortly after that posting and
>>>>>>>>>> besides it being 40 degrees, there was heavy fog
>>>>>>>>>> with a visibility of 1/4 mile. I didn't like
>>>>>>>>>> riding in traffic that cannot tell the difference
>>>>>>>>>> between heavy fog and wet roads and the Daytona
>>>>>>>>>> 500 so I got off of the main drag and road on the
>>>>>>>>>> bike trail. Entering the bike trail there was a
>>>>>>>>>> park ranger parked in such a manner that you could
>>>>>>>>>> pass on the road. I think he got out to pick up
>>>>>>>>>> some paper. But in the cold why would he leave his
>>>>>>>>>> door half open? So I cut by on the grass verge
>>>>>>>>>> that probably barely had enough traction being
>>>>>>>>>> soaking wet for me to maneuver back onto the bike
>>>>>>>>>> path.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Because of the fog and nothing to see I was
>>>>>>>>>> watching the trail because of the cracks
>>>>>>>>>> everywhere. I finally made it to the Oakland
>>>>>>>>>> Airport which has a bike path along one side of
>>>>>>>>>> the road. I road that into Alameda and there was
>>>>>>>>>> so damn much traffic at the corner with the coffee
>>>>>>>>>> shop on it that I just rode past and returned. As
>>>>>>>>>> I made it to a main rode that feeds the industrial
>>>>>>>>>> section down on Bay Farm Island I was rather
>>>>>>>>>> surprised to see a large group of cyclist going
>>>>>>>>>> the opposite direction. There must have been 20
>>>>>>>>>> cyclists in that group. This is a working day!
>>>>>>>>>> Where are they getting that many people with that
>>>>>>>>>> much time off? Because of the fog, I missed a lot
>>>>>>>>>> of normal markers such as a bridge over a creek at
>>>>>>>>>> the Oakland Colosseum. But no matter, the trail
>>>>>>>>>> had people and riders on it but a lot less than
>>>>>>>>>> usual.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This damned Garmin is going to have to be worked
>>>>>>>>>> on more. One of the problems was the cadence
>>>>>>>>>> worked fine for about 4 miles and then stopped
>>>>>>>>>> working again. Since I'm using all the correct
>>>>>>>>>> Garmin parts I can only assume that the trip
>>>>>>>>>> magnet is losing its magnetism...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You certainly do have lots of problems! Even
>>>>>>>>> permanent magnets that go bad!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well, if I rode a 1985 touring bike with bar end
>>>>>>>> friction shifters and a mechanical speedometer, I
>>>>>>>> probably wouldn't have ant problems either.
>>>>>>> :-) Actually, Tom, I think you would. You remind me
>>>>>>> of this character
>>>>>>> from Lil' Abner
>>>>>>> http://www.deniskitchen.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/BP_240.B.JPG
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> although Joe tended to be a jinx for other people.
>>>>>>> Your misfortune seems
>>>>>>> to fall on yourself.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> However, there's something to be said for sticking
>>>>>>> with technology you
>>>>>>> can understand. Hey Tom, have you tried a fixie with
>>>>>>> solid tires? :-)
>>>>>>>> Why don't you give us a dissertation on modern
>>>>>>>> magnets, the materials they are made from and their
>>>>>>>> relative strength and longevity?
>>>>>>> I'll start with some simple citations. When you
>>>>>>> disprove these using
>>>>>>> better information, I'll see if a rebuttal is justified.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Â From
>>>>>>> https://www.sciencefocus.com/science/do-magnets-wear-out/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "a modern samarium-cobalt magnet takes around 700
>>>>>>> years to lose half its
>>>>>>> strength."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From
>>>>>>> https://www.newscientist.com/lastword/mg24732911-800-does-magnetism-decay-over-time/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Modern magnets made of rare earth alloys may even
>>>>>>> last for centuries."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Â From
>>>>>>> https://mpimagnet.com/education-center/how-long-will-your-magnet-last
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Your permanent magnet should lose no more than 1% of
>>>>>>> its magnetic
>>>>>>> strength over a period of 100 years provided it is
>>>>>>> specified and cared
>>>>>>> for properly."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Frank, how do you properly care for a magnet? I have a
>>>>>> magnet I used inside my map case on top of my
>>>>>> handlebar bag. Guided me all over Europe in 1992.
>>>>>> Along with the paper maps I put in the map case too.
>>>>>> Its a thin plastic piece with a spinning arrow inside.
>>>>>> Points North I presume. Guided me from Rome Italy up
>>>>>> to north Germany and that seawall dike along the north
>>>>>> edge of The Netherlands. Lou knows which one I am
>>>>>> talking about. They have a bike trail on the top of
>>>>>> the dike. 20-30 miles long. I have not cared for my
>>>>>> magnet any since 1992. Didn't really take care of it
>>>>>> too much during the summer of 1992 either. Just left
>>>>>> it inside the plastic case. Would it still work today
>>>>>> since I have not cared for it at all for the past 30
>>>>>> years? Do you think it would point South today instead
>>>>>> of North since I have not cared for it?
>>>>>
>>>>> zero longitude was chosen among other reasons because
>>>>> it was very close to magnetic north and actual north. I
>>>>> don't remember what the pole wander has done to that
>>>>> but since most of Europe is close enough to zero
>>>>> longitude that you can pretty much ignore magnetic
>>>>> correction. As for preventing damage to a compass
>>>>> magnet - don't hit it with a hammer on a hard surface.
>>>>> Compass magnets are very small and very light and it
>>>>> takes a great deal of force to demagnetize them. Also
>>>>> remember that magnetic force is logarithmic and drops
>>>>> rapidly as the distance from the source is increased.
>>>>> So a magnet in a compass isn't attracted to the
>>>>> possibly sheetmetal case but to the Earth's magnetic
>>>>> poles which are very much more attractive. Now,
>>>>> navigation maps show magnetic deviation. road maps do
>>>>> not require compass readings save in the oddest of
>>>>> situations.
>>>>>
>>>> Didn't know that. I thought it was Greenwich because that's
>>>> where the Royal Observatory was sited. Turns out that from
>>>> time to time declination is minimal at Greenwich:
>>>>
>>>> https://newatlas.com/science/true-magnetic-north-synch-greenwich/
>>>>
>>>
>>> A sailing ship could leave New York and head magnetic
>>> west and would end up in the English Channel. Food and
>>> staples were huge freight items from America so it was
>>> important to have a means of arriving with the least delay.
>
>>
>> Sorry but a sailing ship headed due west from NYC would
>> run smack into New Jersey.
>
> And a sailing ship heading due East would reach Portugal.
> Eastwards bound, they'd try to stay in the main Gulf Stream
> most of the time, while Westward bound, they`d try to avoid
> the Gulf Stream by heading towards Labrador. A few hundred
> miles detour is less important than good winds and waves.
>
> Rolf

On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 9:58:50 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 1/25/2022 11:51 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 9:47:17 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 1/25/2022 10:21 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>> On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 4:45:20 PM UTC-8, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>>> On Thursday, January 20, 2022 at 7:10:19 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>>>> On 1/20/2022 4:08 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>> On Thursday, January 20, 2022 at 12:38:29 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>>>>>> On 1/20/2022 2:14 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>>>> I hit the road shortly after that posting and besides it being 40 degrees, there was heavy fog with a visibility of 1/4 mile. I didn't like riding in traffic that cannot tell the difference between heavy fog and wet roads and the Daytona 500 so I got off of the main drag and road on the bike trail. Entering the bike trail there was a park ranger parked in such a manner that you could pass on the road. I think he got out to pick up some paper. But in the cold why would he leave his door half open? So I cut by on the grass verge that probably barely had enough traction being soaking wet for me to maneuver back onto the bike path.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Because of the fog and nothing to see I was watching the trail because of the cracks everywhere. I finally made it to the Oakland Airport which has a bike path along one side of the road. I road that into Alameda and there was so damn much traffic at the corner with the coffee shop on it that I just rode past and returned. As I made it to a main rode that feeds the industrial section down on Bay Farm Island I was rather surprised to see a large group of cyclist going the opposite direction. There must have been 20 cyclists in that group. This is a working day! Where are they getting that many people with that much time off? Because of the fog, I missed a lot of normal markers such as a bridge over a creek at the Oakland Colosseum.. But no matter, the trail had people and riders on it but a lot less than usual.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> This damned Garmin is going to have to be worked on more. One of the problems was the cadence worked fine for about 4 miles and then stopped working again. Since I'm using all the correct Garmin parts I can only assume that the trip magnet is losing its magnetism...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> You certainly do have lots of problems! Even permanent magnets that go bad!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Well, if I rode a 1985 touring bike with bar end friction shifters and a mechanical speedometer, I probably wouldn't have ant problems either..
> >>>>> :-) Actually, Tom, I think you would. You remind me of this character
> >>>>> from Lil' Abner
> >>>>> http://www.deniskitchen.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/BP_240.B.JPG
> >>>>> although Joe tended to be a jinx for other people. Your misfortune seems
> >>>>> to fall on yourself.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> However, there's something to be said for sticking with technology you
> >>>>> can understand. Hey Tom, have you tried a fixie with solid tires? :-)
> >>>>>> Why don't you give us a dissertation on modern magnets, the materials they are made from and their relative strength and longevity?
> >>>>> I'll start with some simple citations. When you disprove these using
> >>>>> better information, I'll see if a rebuttal is justified.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> From https://www.sciencefocus.com/science/do-magnets-wear-out/
> >>>>> "a modern samarium-cobalt magnet takes around 700 years to lose half its
> >>>>> strength."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> From
> >>>>> https://www.newscientist.com/lastword/mg24732911-800-does-magnetism-decay-over-time/
> >>>>> "Modern magnets made of rare earth alloys may even last for centuries."
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> From https://mpimagnet.com/education-center/how-long-will-your-magnet-last
> >>>>> "Your permanent magnet should lose no more than 1% of its magnetic
> >>>>> strength over a period of 100 years provided it is specified and cared
> >>>>> for properly."
> >>>>>
> >>>> Frank, how do you properly care for a magnet? I have a magnet I used inside my map case on top of my handlebar bag. Guided me all over Europe in 1992. Along with the paper maps I put in the map case too. Its a thin plastic piece with a spinning arrow inside. Points North I presume. Guided me from Rome Italy up to north Germany and that seawall dike along the north edge of The Netherlands. Lou knows which one I am talking about. They have a bike trail on the top of the dike. 20-30 miles long. I have not cared for my magnet any since 1992. Didn't really take care of it too much during the summer of 1992 either. Just left it inside the plastic case. Would it still work today since I have not cared for it at all for the past 30 years? Do you think it would point South today instead of North since I have not cared for it?
> >>>
> >>> zero longitude was chosen among other reasons because it was very close to magnetic north and actual north. I don't remember what the pole wander has done to that but since most of Europe is close enough to zero longitude that you can pretty much ignore magnetic correction. As for preventing damage to a compass magnet - don't hit it with a hammer on a hard surface. Compass magnets are very small and very light and it takes a great deal of force to demagnetize them. Also remember that magnetic force is logarithmic and drops rapidly as the distance from the source is increased. So a magnet in a compass isn't attracted to the possibly sheetmetal case but to the Earth's magnetic poles which are very much more attractive. Now, navigation maps show magnetic deviation. road maps do not require compass readings save in the oddest of situations.
> >>>
> >> Didn't know that. I thought it was Greenwich because that's
> >> where the Royal Observatory was sited. Turns out that from
> >> time to time declination is minimal at Greenwich:
> >>
> >> https://newatlas.com/science/true-magnetic-north-synch-greenwich/
> >
> > A sailing ship could leave New York and head magnetic west and would end up in the English Channel. Food and staples were huge freight items from America so it was important to have a means of arriving with the least delay.
> >
> Sorry but a sailing ship headed due west from NYC would run
> smack into New Jersey.

Pardon my error. Of course I meant East.

On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 10:12:48 AM UTC-8, Rolf Mantel wrote:
> Am 25.01.2022 um 18:58 schrieb AMuzi:
> > On 1/25/2022 11:51 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 9:47:17 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >>> On 1/25/2022 10:21 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>> On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 4:45:20 PM UTC-8,
> >>>> russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>>>> On Thursday, January 20, 2022 at 7:10:19 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>> On 1/20/2022 4:08 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Thursday, January 20, 2022 at 12:38:29 PM UTC-8, Frank
> >>>>>>> Krygowski wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On 1/20/2022 2:14 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> I hit the road shortly after that posting and besides it being
> >>>>>>>>> 40 degrees, there was heavy fog with a visibility of 1/4 mile.
> >>>>>>>>> I didn't like riding in traffic that cannot tell the difference
> >>>>>>>>> between heavy fog and wet roads and the Daytona 500 so I got
> >>>>>>>>> off of the main drag and road on the bike trail. Entering the
> >>>>>>>>> bike trail there was a park ranger parked in such a manner that
> >>>>>>>>> you could pass on the road. I think he got out to pick up some
> >>>>>>>>> paper. But in the cold why would he leave his door half open?
> >>>>>>>>> So I cut by on the grass verge that probably barely had enough
> >>>>>>>>> traction being soaking wet for me to maneuver back onto the
> >>>>>>>>> bike path.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Because of the fog and nothing to see I was watching the trail
> >>>>>>>>> because of the cracks everywhere. I finally made it to the
> >>>>>>>>> Oakland Airport which has a bike path along one side of the
> >>>>>>>>> road. I road that into Alameda and there was so damn much
> >>>>>>>>> traffic at the corner with the coffee shop on it that I just
> >>>>>>>>> rode past and returned. As I made it to a main rode that feeds
> >>>>>>>>> the industrial section down on Bay Farm Island I was rather
> >>>>>>>>> surprised to see a large group of cyclist going the opposite
> >>>>>>>>> direction. There must have been 20 cyclists in that group. This
> >>>>>>>>> is a working day! Where are they getting that many people with
> >>>>>>>>> that much time off? Because of the fog, I missed a lot of
> >>>>>>>>> normal markers such as a bridge over a creek at the Oakland
> >>>>>>>>> Colosseum. But no matter, the trail had people and riders on it
> >>>>>>>>> but a lot less than usual.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> This damned Garmin is going to have to be worked on more. One
> >>>>>>>>> of the problems was the cadence worked fine for about 4 miles
> >>>>>>>>> and then stopped working again. Since I'm using all the correct
> >>>>>>>>> Garmin parts I can only assume that the trip magnet is losing
> >>>>>>>>> its magnetism...
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> You certainly do have lots of problems! Even permanent magnets
> >>>>>>>> that go bad!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Well, if I rode a 1985 touring bike with bar end friction
> >>>>>>> shifters and a mechanical speedometer, I probably wouldn't have
> >>>>>>> ant problems either.
> >>>>>> :-) Actually, Tom, I think you would. You remind me of this character
> >>>>>> from Lil' Abner
> >>>>>> http://www.deniskitchen.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/BP_240.B.JPG
> >>>>>> although Joe tended to be a jinx for other people. Your misfortune
> >>>>>> seems
> >>>>>> to fall on yourself.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> However, there's something to be said for sticking with technology
> >>>>>> you
> >>>>>> can understand. Hey Tom, have you tried a fixie with solid tires? :-)
> >>>>>>> Why don't you give us a dissertation on modern magnets, the
> >>>>>>> materials they are made from and their relative strength and
> >>>>>>> longevity?
> >>>>>> I'll start with some simple citations. When you disprove these using
> >>>>>> better information, I'll see if a rebuttal is justified.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> From https://www.sciencefocus.com/science/do-magnets-wear-out/
> >>>>>> "a modern samarium-cobalt magnet takes around 700 years to lose
> >>>>>> half its
> >>>>>> strength."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> From
> >>>>>> https://www.newscientist.com/lastword/mg24732911-800-does-magnetism-decay-over-time/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "Modern magnets made of rare earth alloys may even last for
> >>>>>> centuries."
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> From
> >>>>>> https://mpimagnet.com/education-center/how-long-will-your-magnet-last
> >>>>>> "Your permanent magnet should lose no more than 1% of its magnetic
> >>>>>> strength over a period of 100 years provided it is specified and
> >>>>>> cared
> >>>>>> for properly."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> Frank, how do you properly care for a magnet? I have a magnet I
> >>>>> used inside my map case on top of my handlebar bag. Guided me all
> >>>>> over Europe in 1992. Along with the paper maps I put in the map
> >>>>> case too. Its a thin plastic piece with a spinning arrow inside.
> >>>>> Points North I presume. Guided me from Rome Italy up to north
> >>>>> Germany and that seawall dike along the north edge of The
> >>>>> Netherlands. Lou knows which one I am talking about. They have a
> >>>>> bike trail on the top of the dike. 20-30 miles long. I have not
> >>>>> cared for my magnet any since 1992. Didn't really take care of it
> >>>>> too much during the summer of 1992 either. Just left it inside the
> >>>>> plastic case. Would it still work today since I have not cared for
> >>>>> it at all for the past 30 years? Do you think it would point South
> >>>>> today instead of North since I have not cared for it?
> >>>>
> >>>> zero longitude was chosen among other reasons because it was very
> >>>> close to magnetic north and actual north. I don't remember what the
> >>>> pole wander has done to that but since most of Europe is close
> >>>> enough to zero longitude that you can pretty much ignore magnetic
> >>>> correction. As for preventing damage to a compass magnet - don't hit
> >>>> it with a hammer on a hard surface. Compass magnets are very small
> >>>> and very light and it takes a great deal of force to demagnetize
> >>>> them. Also remember that magnetic force is logarithmic and drops
> >>>> rapidly as the distance from the source is increased. So a magnet in
> >>>> a compass isn't attracted to the possibly sheetmetal case but to the
> >>>> Earth's magnetic poles which are very much more attractive. Now,
> >>>> navigation maps show magnetic deviation. road maps do not require
> >>>> compass readings save in the oddest of situations.
> >>>>
> >>> Didn't know that. I thought it was Greenwich because that's
> >>> where the Royal Observatory was sited. Turns out that from
> >>> time to time declination is minimal at Greenwich:
> >>>
> >>> https://newatlas.com/science/true-magnetic-north-synch-greenwich/
> >>
> >> A sailing ship could leave New York and head magnetic west and would
> >> end up in the English Channel. Food and staples were huge freight
> >> items from America so it was important to have a means of arriving
> >> with the least delay.
>
> >
> > Sorry but a sailing ship headed due west from NYC would run smack into
> > New Jersey.
> And a sailing ship heading due East would reach Portugal. Eastwards
> bound, they'd try to stay in the main Gulf Stream most of the time,
> while Westward bound, they`d try to avoid the Gulf Stream by heading
> towards Labrador. A few hundred miles detour is less important than
> good winds and waves.

On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 12:56:56 PM UTC-8, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 08:21:38 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >zero longitude was chosen among other reasons because it was very close to magnetic north and actual north.
> Nope. Zero longitude (prime meridian) was selected because there was
> a convenient observatory on the datum line with which to make
> astronomical calculations needed to reconcile terrestrial and
> celestial navigation calculations and maps. Some history:
> "What is the Prime Meridian - and why is it in Greenwich?"
> <https://www.rmg.co.uk/stories/topics/what-prime-meridian-why-it-greenwich>
> >I don't remember what the pole wander has done to that but
> >since most of Europe is close enough to zero longitude that
> >you can pretty much ignore magnetic correction.
> Nope. Europe is a big place and can be many degrees off from the
> prime meridian. Neglecting to compensate for this will result in huge
> errors. The compass direction error is called "magnetic declination".
> <https://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomag/declination.shtml>
> You can use this page to see how it has changed over the years:
> <https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/maps/historical_declination/>
> If you zoom in to Greenwich, you'll find the 0 degree magnetic
> declination line coincides with the 0 degree longitude line.
>
> The changing declination caused some real navigation errors when
> Columbus and later explorers were going back and forth across the
> Atlantic. They didn't trust or use a compass. What they did was
> follow a constant latitude course. All that was needed was a daily
> sun sight with a quadrant, astrolabe, or eventually, a sextant. By
> following a line of constant latitude, they would always end up in the
> same place on the opposite coast. They would then follow the coast
> line to their destination. In other words, they didn't need a
> compass.
> >As for preventing damage to a compass magnet - don't hit it
> >with a hammer on a hard surface. Compass magnets are very small
> >and very light and it takes a great deal of force to demagnetize
> >them.
> Maybe. I'll take your word for it. I've never pounded on a compass
> needle and don't plan to test your theory.
> >Also remember that magnetic force is logarithmic and drops
> >rapidly as the distance from the source is increased.
> Nope. The magnetic field varies by the inverse square of the
> distance.
> <https://www.instructables.com/Evaluate-magnetic-field-variation-with-distance/>
> >So a magnet in a compass isn't attracted to the possibly sheetmetal
> >case but to the Earth's magnetic poles which are very much more
> >attractive.
> Nope. By "sheet metal" I guess you mean steel. Most compasses have
> non-magnetic wood, plastic, aluminum, brass non-magnetic cases.
> Putting the needle in a case made from something that attracts a
> needle is a really bad design. Try putting a piece of sheet steel next
> to your magnet and watch what happens. The earth's magnetic field is
> roughly 25,000 - 65,000 nT (0.25 - 0.65 gauss). I have a home made
> Hall Effect Gauss meter for measuring magnetic fields. It shows 55
> gauss for a small roll of galvanized steel roofing flashing at about
> 0.25 inches distance. If the compass needle were in a case made of
> this material, the needle would point to the case, not to north.
> >Now, navigation maps show magnetic deviation. road maps do not
> >require compass readings save in the oddest of situations.
> Nope. Every road map I have includes the magnetic declination in the
> legend box. That's because the declination does not vary much over
> the small areas covered by typical road map. If you're using a road
> map for hiking by compass, you definitely want to know the
> declination.
>
> How did you ever manage to get an almost perfect score for wrong
> answers? If I want to try pounding on a compass needle, that question
> might give you a 100% wrong score. There's no way you can do that
> badly by accident. Are your really trying to waste my time fixing
> your errors and attracting attention? Methinks if you would use
> Google to double check your claims before posting, you might be able
> to improve your batting average.

Tell us what you know about navigation Jeff. Is that another of your great interests like weather prediction because you worked on marine radios. Tell me the frequency of these marine radios since you seem to think that they would give you distance.

On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 09:43:52 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 9:11:15 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 1/25/2022 11:58 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> > On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 8:51:38 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> >> On 1/25/2022 11:21 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> zero longitude was chosen among other reasons because it was very close to magnetic north and actual north. I don't remember what the pole wander has done to that but since most of Europe is close enough to zero longitude that you can pretty much ignore magnetic correction. As for preventing damage to a compass magnet - don't hit it with a hammer on a hard surface. Compass magnets are very small and very light and it takes a great deal of force to demagnetize them. Also remember that magnetic force is logarithmic and drops rapidly as the distance from the source is increased. So a magnet in a compass isn't attracted to the possibly sheetmetal case but to the Earth's magnetic poles which are very much more attractive. Now, navigation maps show magnetic deviation. road maps do not require compass readings save in the oddest of situations.
>> >> Too many errors there to bother listing. It's just Tom being Tom.
>> >
>> > Frank, I gave citations. Why haven't you? Why are you under the mistaken belief that you are an authority on anything? From you previous comments we now know that you have break-downs and failures like everyone else but you simply don't mention them because then you could become less of an authority in your own eyes. Not that it matters because you're no authority at all in anyone's.
>> Really? Where are the citations in that paragraph?
>>
>> Try this for a start on the history of the Prime Meridian:
>> https://www.rmg.co.uk/stories/topics/what-prime-meridian-why-it-greenwich
>> although that information is easily available elsewhere. It had next to
>> nothing to do with magnetic delclination.
>>
>> I'm continually amazed that you, Tom, post so much blatant and obvious
>> foolery, so much that's so easy to prove wrong.
>>
>> (Time for Tom to change the subject and ask "Well, how many compasses
>> have YOU hit with a hammer???)
>
>Frank, you continue to show an ignorance beyond belief. https://newatlas.com/science/true-magnetic-north-synch-greenwich/ Shows that Magnetic north is about to sync exactly to Greenwich observatory showing that it was NEVER far from alignment. You cannot keep yourself from being a damned fool. Why don't you tell us about the true zero meridian being 103 meters away from the observatory as if somehow that matters?
>
>Greenwich WAS NOT chosen by England but by Americans who were a sea power in shipping. Every day, in every way, people that do not understand these sorts of things just love to talk about them.

Tommy, your reference states, in it entirety, "True and magnetic north
to synch at Greenwich for first time in 360 years"
As for Greenwich being selected by the U.S.??

Well, In 1721, Great Britain established its own meridian passing
through an early transit circle at the newly established Royal
Observatory at Greenwich - note her that the U.S. didn't exist in
1721...
And in 1850 U.S. law established its use "for all astronomical
purposes, and ... the meridian of Greenwich shall be adopted for all
nautical purposes."

As for the "Americans who were a sea power in shipping" well, actually
you are wrong again as when GMT was first designated the U.S. didn't
exist and when the U.S. officially accepted it, in 1850, the U.S,
certainly wasn't a naval power, of any sort. In 1890 the U.S. had no
battleships while the Royal Navy had 5 battleships in the "Channel
Squadron", 12 in the Mediterranean Fleet and 5 in the China Station
Fleet.
Tommy TAKE YOUR MEDICINE! Your dementia is getting worse.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 11:47:11 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 1/25/2022 10:21 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 4:45:20 PM UTC-8, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> On Thursday, January 20, 2022 at 7:10:19 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>> On 1/20/2022 4:08 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, January 20, 2022 at 12:38:29 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/20/2022 2:14 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>> I hit the road shortly after that posting and besides it being 40 degrees, there was heavy fog with a visibility of 1/4 mile. I didn't like riding in traffic that cannot tell the difference between heavy fog and wet roads and the Daytona 500 so I got off of the main drag and road on the bike trail. Entering the bike trail there was a park ranger parked in such a manner that you could pass on the road. I think he got out to pick up some paper. But in the cold why would he leave his door half open? So I cut by on the grass verge that probably barely had enough traction being soaking wet for me to maneuver back onto the bike path.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Because of the fog and nothing to see I was watching the trail because of the cracks everywhere. I finally made it to the Oakland Airport which has a bike path along one side of the road. I road that into Alameda and there was so damn much traffic at the corner with the coffee shop on it that I just rode past and returned. As I made it to a main rode that feeds the industrial section down on Bay Farm Island I was rather surprised to see a large group of cyclist going the opposite direction. There must have been 20 cyclists in that group. This is a working day! Where are they getting that many people with that much time off? Because of the fog, I missed a lot of normal markers such as a bridge over a creek at the Oakland Colosseum. But no matter, the trail had people and riders on it but a lot less than usual.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This damned Garmin is going to have to be worked on more. One of the problems was the cadence worked fine for about 4 miles and then stopped working again. Since I'm using all the correct Garmin parts I can only assume that the trip magnet is losing its magnetism...
>>>>>
>>>>>> You certainly do have lots of problems! Even permanent magnets that go bad!
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, if I rode a 1985 touring bike with bar end friction shifters and a mechanical speedometer, I probably wouldn't have ant problems either.
>>>> :-) Actually, Tom, I think you would. You remind me of this character
>>>> from Lil' Abner
>>>> http://www.deniskitchen.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/BP_240.B.JPG
>>>> although Joe tended to be a jinx for other people. Your misfortune seems
>>>> to fall on yourself.
>>>>
>>>> However, there's something to be said for sticking with technology you
>>>> can understand. Hey Tom, have you tried a fixie with solid tires? :-)
>>>>> Why don't you give us a dissertation on modern magnets, the materials they are made from and their relative strength and longevity?
>>>> I'll start with some simple citations. When you disprove these using
>>>> better information, I'll see if a rebuttal is justified.
>>>>
>>>> From https://www.sciencefocus.com/science/do-magnets-wear-out/
>>>> "a modern samarium-cobalt magnet takes around 700 years to lose half its
>>>> strength."
>>>>
>>>> From
>>>> https://www.newscientist.com/lastword/mg24732911-800-does-magnetism-decay-over-time/
>>>> "Modern magnets made of rare earth alloys may even last for centuries."
>>>
>>>>
>>>> From https://mpimagnet.com/education-center/how-long-will-your-magnet-last
>>>> "Your permanent magnet should lose no more than 1% of its magnetic
>>>> strength over a period of 100 years provided it is specified and cared
>>>> for properly."
>>>>
>>> Frank, how do you properly care for a magnet? I have a magnet I used inside my map case on top of my handlebar bag. Guided me all over Europe in 1992. Along with the paper maps I put in the map case too. Its a thin plastic piece with a spinning arrow inside. Points North I presume. Guided me from Rome Italy up to north Germany and that seawall dike along the north edge of The Netherlands. Lou knows which one I am talking about. They have a bike trail on the top of the dike. 20-30 miles long. I have not cared for my magnet any since 1992. Didn't really take care of it too much during the summer of 1992 either. Just left it inside the plastic case. Would it still work today since I have not cared for it at all for the past 30 years? Do you think it would point South today instead of North since I have not cared for it?
>>
>> zero longitude was chosen among other reasons because it was very close to magnetic north and actual north. I don't remember what the pole wander has done to that but since most of Europe is close enough to zero longitude that you can pretty much ignore magnetic correction. As for preventing damage to a compass magnet - don't hit it with a hammer on a hard surface. Compass magnets are very small and very light and it takes a great deal of force to demagnetize them. Also remember that magnetic force is logarithmic and drops rapidly as the distance from the source is increased. So a magnet in a compass isn't attracted to the possibly sheetmetal case but to the Earth's magnetic poles which are very much more attractive. Now, navigation maps show magnetic deviation. road maps do not require compass readings save in the oddest of situations.
>>
>
>Didn't know that. I thought it was Greenwich because that's
>where the Royal Observatory was sited. Turns out that from
>time to time declination is minimal at Greenwich:
>
>https://newatlas.com/science/true-magnetic-north-synch-greenwich/

Without researching it I suspect that GMT, which is essentially what
was established, was "Greenwich Mean Time" as (1) The Royal
Observatory was at Greenwich and (2) a standard time is a necessity in
finding a ship's location and (3) England was the greatest navel
country in the world.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 09:51:17 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 9:47:17 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 1/25/2022 10:21 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> > On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 4:45:20 PM UTC-8, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> >> On Thursday, January 20, 2022 at 7:10:19 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> >>> On 1/20/2022 4:08 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >>>> On Thursday, January 20, 2022 at 12:38:29 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> >>>>> On 1/20/2022 2:14 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >>>>>> I hit the road shortly after that posting and besides it being 40 degrees, there was heavy fog with a visibility of 1/4 mile. I didn't like riding in traffic that cannot tell the difference between heavy fog and wet roads and the Daytona 500 so I got off of the main drag and road on the bike trail. Entering the bike trail there was a park ranger parked in such a manner that you could pass on the road. I think he got out to pick up some paper. But in the cold why would he leave his door half open? So I cut by on the grass verge that probably barely had enough traction being soaking wet for me to maneuver back onto the bike path.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Because of the fog and nothing to see I was watching the trail because of the cracks everywhere. I finally made it to the Oakland Airport which has a bike path along one side of the road. I road that into Alameda and there was so damn much traffic at the corner with the coffee shop on it that I just rode past and returned. As I made it to a main rode that feeds the industrial section down on Bay Farm Island I was rather surprised to see a large group of cyclist going the opposite direction. There must have been 20 cyclists in that group. This is a working day! Where are they getting that many people with that much time off? Because of the fog, I missed a lot of normal markers such as a bridge over a creek at the Oakland Colosseum. But no matter, the trail had people and riders on it but a lot less than usual.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> This damned Garmin is going to have to be worked on more. One of the problems was the cadence worked fine for about 4 miles and then stopped working again. Since I'm using all the correct Garmin parts I can only assume that the trip magnet is losing its magnetism...
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> You certainly do have lots of problems! Even permanent magnets that go bad!
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Well, if I rode a 1985 touring bike with bar end friction shifters and a mechanical speedometer, I probably wouldn't have ant problems either.
>> >>> :-) Actually, Tom, I think you would. You remind me of this character
>> >>> from Lil' Abner
>> >>> http://www.deniskitchen.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/BP_240.B.JPG
>> >>> although Joe tended to be a jinx for other people. Your misfortune seems
>> >>> to fall on yourself.
>> >>>
>> >>> However, there's something to be said for sticking with technology you
>> >>> can understand. Hey Tom, have you tried a fixie with solid tires? :-)
>> >>>> Why don't you give us a dissertation on modern magnets, the materials they are made from and their relative strength and longevity?
>> >>> I'll start with some simple citations. When you disprove these using
>> >>> better information, I'll see if a rebuttal is justified.
>> >>>
>> >>> From https://www.sciencefocus.com/science/do-magnets-wear-out/
>> >>> "a modern samarium-cobalt magnet takes around 700 years to lose half its
>> >>> strength."
>> >>>
>> >>> From
>> >>> https://www.newscientist.com/lastword/mg24732911-800-does-magnetism-decay-over-time/
>> >>> "Modern magnets made of rare earth alloys may even last for centuries."
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> From https://mpimagnet.com/education-center/how-long-will-your-magnet-last
>> >>> "Your permanent magnet should lose no more than 1% of its magnetic
>> >>> strength over a period of 100 years provided it is specified and cared
>> >>> for properly."
>> >>>
>> >> Frank, how do you properly care for a magnet? I have a magnet I used inside my map case on top of my handlebar bag. Guided me all over Europe in 1992. Along with the paper maps I put in the map case too. Its a thin plastic piece with a spinning arrow inside. Points North I presume. Guided me from Rome Italy up to north Germany and that seawall dike along the north edge of The Netherlands. Lou knows which one I am talking about. They have a bike trail on the top of the dike. 20-30 miles long. I have not cared for my magnet any since 1992. Didn't really take care of it too much during the summer of 1992 either. Just left it inside the plastic case. Would it still work today since I have not cared for it at all for the past 30 years? Do you think it would point South today instead of North since I have not cared for it?
>> >
>> > zero longitude was chosen among other reasons because it was very close to magnetic north and actual north. I don't remember what the pole wander has done to that but since most of Europe is close enough to zero longitude that you can pretty much ignore magnetic correction. As for preventing damage to a compass magnet - don't hit it with a hammer on a hard surface. Compass magnets are very small and very light and it takes a great deal of force to demagnetize them. Also remember that magnetic force is logarithmic and drops rapidly as the distance from the source is increased. So a magnet in a compass isn't attracted to the possibly sheetmetal case but to the Earth's magnetic poles which are very much more attractive. Now, navigation maps show magnetic deviation. road maps do not require compass readings save in the oddest of situations.
>> >
>> Didn't know that. I thought it was Greenwich because that's
>> where the Royal Observatory was sited. Turns out that from
>> time to time declination is minimal at Greenwich:
>>
>> https://newatlas.com/science/true-magnetic-north-synch-greenwich/
>
>A sailing ship could leave New York and head magnetic west and would end up in the English Channel. Food and staples were huge freight items from America so it was important to have a means of arriving with the least delay.

Ah Tommy, and you claim to be a member of a yacht club? A sailing ship
would never set out from New York and sail magnetic West as that would
beach the ship on the (roughly) northern coast of New Jersey.

And if one sailed magnetic East I'm not sure but probably you'd
probably hit Portugal - see
https://ian.macky.net/pat/map/atoc/atocblu2.gif
I'm not going to work out the magnetic deviation but the U.K. is about
opposite the east coast of Canada.

In addition, you specified a "sailing ship" and one would have to take
a number of things into consideration. the Gulf Stream, for example
will be moving you toward the north, and a sailing vessel can't head
in just any direction, one must sail where the wind will let you go.

Tommy, you keep saying things and it keeps turning out to be yet
another example of your dementia.

And, before you get all excepted, yes I do know what I'm talking
about. I never sailed the Atlantic but I did sail a 40 ft sloop from
Thailand to the West Coast of Australia, and back.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 1/25/2022 8:54 PM, John B. wrote:
>
> Without researching it I suspect that GMT, which is essentially what
> was established, was "Greenwich Mean Time" as (1) The Royal
> Observatory was at Greenwich and (2) a standard time is a necessity in
> finding a ship's location and (3) England was the greatest navel
> country in the world.

I must disagree on that last point! At that time, English navels were
all hidden by corsets, heavy clothing and extreme Victorian modesty.

I'll bet Hawaii, Tahiti and similar places were much greater countries
for navels.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 1/25/2022 3:56 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 08:21:38 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> zero longitude was chosen among other reasons because it was very close to magnetic north and actual north.
>
> Nope. Zero longitude (prime meridian) was selected because there was
> a convenient observatory on the datum line with which to make
> astronomical calculations needed to reconcile terrestrial and
> celestial navigation calculations and maps. Some history:
> "What is the Prime Meridian - and why is it in Greenwich?"
> <https://www.rmg.co.uk/stories/topics/what-prime-meridian-why-it-greenwich>
>
>> I don't remember what the pole wander has done to that but
>> since most of Europe is close enough to zero longitude that
>> you can pretty much ignore magnetic correction.
>
> Nope. Europe is a big place and can be many degrees off from the
> prime meridian. Neglecting to compensate for this will result in huge
> errors. The compass direction error is called "magnetic declination".
> <https://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomag/declination.shtml>
> You can use this page to see how it has changed over the years:
> <https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/maps/historical_declination/>
> If you zoom in to Greenwich, you'll find the 0 degree magnetic
> declination line coincides with the 0 degree longitude line.
>
> The changing declination caused some real navigation errors when
> Columbus and later explorers were going back and forth across the
> Atlantic. They didn't trust or use a compass. What they did was
> follow a constant latitude course. All that was needed was a daily
> sun sight with a quadrant, astrolabe, or eventually, a sextant. By
> following a line of constant latitude, they would always end up in the
> same place on the opposite coast. They would then follow the coast
> line to their destination. In other words, they didn't need a
> compass.
>
>> As for preventing damage to a compass magnet - don't hit it
>> with a hammer on a hard surface. Compass magnets are very small
>> and very light and it takes a great deal of force to demagnetize
>> them.
>
> Maybe. I'll take your word for it. I've never pounded on a compass
> needle and don't plan to test your theory.
>
>> Also remember that magnetic force is logarithmic and drops
>> rapidly as the distance from the source is increased.
>
> Nope. The magnetic field varies by the inverse square of the
> distance.
> <https://www.instructables.com/Evaluate-magnetic-field-variation-with-distance/>
>
>> So a magnet in a compass isn't attracted to the possibly sheetmetal
>> case but to the Earth's magnetic poles which are very much more
>> attractive.
>
> Nope. By "sheet metal" I guess you mean steel. Most compasses have
> non-magnetic wood, plastic, aluminum, brass non-magnetic cases.
> Putting the needle in a case made from something that attracts a
> needle is a really bad design. Try putting a piece of sheet steel next
> to your magnet and watch what happens. The earth's magnetic field is
> roughly 25,000 - 65,000 nT (0.25 - 0.65 gauss). I have a home made
> Hall Effect Gauss meter for measuring magnetic fields. It shows 55
> gauss for a small roll of galvanized steel roofing flashing at about
> 0.25 inches distance. If the compass needle were in a case made of
> this material, the needle would point to the case, not to north.
>
>> Now, navigation maps show magnetic deviation. road maps do not
>> require compass readings save in the oddest of situations.
>
> Nope. Every road map I have includes the magnetic declination in the
> legend box. That's because the declination does not vary much over
> the small areas covered by typical road map. If you're using a road
> map for hiking by compass, you definitely want to know the
> declination.
>
> How did you ever manage to get an almost perfect score for wrong
> answers? If I want to try pounding on a compass needle, that question
> might give you a 100% wrong score. There's no way you can do that
> badly by accident. Are your really trying to waste my time fixing
> your errors and attracting attention? Methinks if you would use
> Google to double check your claims before posting, you might be able
> to improve your batting average.

Jeff, you're so much more charitable than I am. I just said "too many
errors to bother correcting."

Your commitment to educating Tom is admirable, in a lost cause sort of way.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 22:29:26 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 1/25/2022 8:54 PM, John B. wrote:
>>
>> Without researching it I suspect that GMT, which is essentially what
>> was established, was "Greenwich Mean Time" as (1) The Royal
>> Observatory was at Greenwich and (2) a standard time is a necessity in
>> finding a ship's location and (3) England was the greatest navel
>> country in the world.
>
>I must disagree on that last point! At that time, English navels were
>all hidden by corsets, heavy clothing and extreme Victorian modesty.
>
>I'll bet Hawaii, Tahiti and similar places were much greater countries
>for navels.

Well, I don't know. After all the Irish folk song, "The Mountains of
Mourne" includes the lines

"As to how the fine ladies in London were dressed
Well, if you believe me, when asked to a ball
Faith, they don't wear no top to their dresses at all.
Oh, I've seen them myself and you could not in trath
Say if they were bound for a ball or a bath"

So maybe British and Navel can be used in the same sentence (or should
that be "sentence" (:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 1/25/2022 8:26 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 15:05:32 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 9:58:50 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 1/25/2022 11:51 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> A sailing ship could leave New York and head magnetic west and would end up in the English Channel. Food and staples were huge freight items from America so it was important to have a means of arriving with the least delay.
>
>>> Sorry but a sailing ship headed due west from NYC would run
>>> smack into New Jersey.
>
>> Pardon my error. Of course I meant East.
>
> Is that "of course" or "off course"?
>

'off course' was one of Gene Daniels' favorite malaprops.
Miss him here on RBT.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 6:13:02 PM UTC-8, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 15:20:43 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Tell us what you know about navigation Jeff.
> Why? Are you lost?
> >Is that another of your great interests like weather prediction because you worked on marine radios.
> Yes, it's one of my many interests. It sorta comes with the marine
> radio stuff. I attended a few class in navigation (before affordable
> GPS). I still have a Tamaya sextant,
> <https://www.landfallnavigation.com/astra-iii-pro-sextant-0502p.html>
> HO 229 sight reduction tables, out of date nautical almanac, plotting
> sheets, and various tools and books. About 20 years ago, I would give
> demonstrations of how to do noon sights, usually on the SCZ harbor
> breakwater (followed by a free lunch at Aldo's). I got a few kids and
> adults interested in navigation.
>
> I started classes in preparation for getting a private pilots license,
> which requires quite a bit of navigation experise. However, I ran out
> of time and money.
>
> I maintain a home ADS-B monitoring site for tracking airplanes. Some
> knowledge of navigation is helpful:
> <https://flightaware.com/adsb/stats/user/JeffLiebermann>
> >Tell me the frequency of these marine radios since you seem to think that they would give you distance.
> Are you allergic to using a search engine? Well, if you must ask:
>
> US VHF marine frequencies:
> <https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=mtvhf>
>
> International VHF marine frequencies:
> <https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=apps18>
>
> HF marine frequencies:
> <https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=mtHighFrequency>
>
> Loran C:
> 90 to 110 kHz
>
> GPS:
> <https://www.everythingrf.com/community/gps-frequency-bands>

If you think you know something about navigation why is it that you didn't know that Greenwich magnetic north was always very near magnetic north, that it was chosen as the prime meridian by Americans who were sailing from major ports in the US to the English Channel to unload their cargoes in relatively calm waters and that being very near true north, it made navigation easy? Instead the only thing that comes from you is the usual bullshit know nothing, You might just as well be John.

On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 5:40:42 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 1/25/2022 8:26 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> > On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 15:05:32 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> > <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 9:58:50 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >>> On 1/25/2022 11:51 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>> A sailing ship could leave New York and head magnetic west and would end up in the English Channel. Food and staples were huge freight items from America so it was important to have a means of arriving with the least delay.
> >
> >>> Sorry but a sailing ship headed due west from NYC would run
> >>> smack into New Jersey.
> >
> >> Pardon my error. Of course I meant East.
> >
> > Is that "of course" or "off course"?
> >
> 'off course' was one of Gene Daniels' favorite malaprops.
> Miss him here on RBT.
What we've gotten from the group here is that it isn't going to rain in February because they can't predict it from a week from the end of January. They neither know nor want to know the slightest thing about navigation but like to complain that I don't understand it myself when I have actually been ships' navigator and Jeff thinks that showing a sextant makes him a navigator. So many fools in so little time.

I took the Trek out again yesterday. To make sure that the saddle didn't rotate again, I centered it on the seatpost. Well it didn't rotate but it put me too close to the bars and I will have to lengthen the stem to stop the pain in my shoulders. I hate switching stem lengths because it always takes so much time to get a stem. Everyone is using 120 or 110 and it looks like I will need a 70 or 80. So I have to order them new.

On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 9:27:22 AM UTC-8, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Jan 2022 07:24:06 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
> >On 1/25/2022 8:26 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> >> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 15:05:32 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 9:58:50 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>> On 1/25/2022 11:51 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>> A sailing ship could leave New York and head magnetic west and would end up in the English Channel. Food and staples were huge freight items from America so it was important to have a means of arriving with the least delay.
>
> >>>> Sorry but a sailing ship headed due west from NYC would run
> >>>> smack into New Jersey.
> >>
> >>> Pardon my error. Of course I meant East.
>
> >> Is that "of course" or "off course"?
>
> >'off course' was one of Gene Daniels' favorite malaprops.
> Thanks. I knew that I stole that from someone, but couldn't recall
> where, when, or whom.
> >Miss him here on RBT.
> Using Google search, I didn't find anything recent from Gene Daniels
> (DataKoll). His most recent posting in RBT was Mar 2017 as
> DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH. During the previous 2 years, he maintained
> this bizarre thread:
> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/-9iqbkF82co/m/Em68cu4DBQAJ>
> Nothing in my address book. I doubt that he has disappeared. More
> likely posting under a different alias. Nothing in his YouTube
> channel:
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBqmkFJ-7HQPuUtzRd8vKYQ>
> I tried to find him in various recumbent bicycle groups and forums. No
> luck. Also, no luck trying to contrive a suitable malaprop.

I don't remember him at all. The conversation there is a bit strange since that was shortly after my recovery and the medication still was effecting me. But I can ask you - do you believe that school children should have ready access to pornography even to sitting in classrooms (which has grown to the point where they only do such things now in Florida and South Dakota.)

While I am strongly against censorship in general, there are things that they do not put on TV simply because of a public outcry. Should they be available to people just because they're using a smart phone rather than a TV?

On 1/26/2022 11:27 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Jan 2022 07:24:06 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> On 1/25/2022 8:26 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 15:05:32 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 9:58:50 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>> On 1/25/2022 11:51 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>> A sailing ship could leave New York and head magnetic west and would end up in the English Channel. Food and staples were huge freight items from America so it was important to have a means of arriving with the least delay.
>
>>>>> Sorry but a sailing ship headed due west from NYC would run
>>>>> smack into New Jersey.
>>>
>>>> Pardon my error. Of course I meant East.
>
>>> Is that "of course" or "off course"?
>
>> 'off course' was one of Gene Daniels' favorite malaprops.
>
> Thanks. I knew that I stole that from someone, but couldn't recall
> where, when, or whom.
>
>> Miss him here on RBT.
>
> Using Google search, I didn't find anything recent from Gene Daniels
> (DataKoll). His most recent posting in RBT was Mar 2017 as
> DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH. During the previous 2 years, he maintained
> this bizarre thread:
> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/-9iqbkF82co/m/Em68cu4DBQAJ>
> Nothing in my address book. I doubt that he has disappeared. More
> likely posting under a different alias. Nothing in his YouTube
> channel:
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBqmkFJ-7HQPuUtzRd8vKYQ>
> I tried to find him in various recumbent bicycle groups and forums. No
> luck. Also, no luck trying to contrive a suitable malaprop.
>

The Oracle stopped here in 2017 in his van home-on-wheels,
left some boxes of bicycle parts and tools, and disappeared
from RBT shortly thereafter. He didn't look well but since
that was the only time I ever saw him in person I can't be
sure.

He also had an interest in grackles (it's a bird species)
but also stopped contributing on that subject in the various
fora.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971