On 2/27/2022 9:39 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 21:16:32 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> On 2/27/2022 8:20 PM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 4:19:21 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 11:02:52 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>> On 2/27/2022 11:47 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 9:17:29 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2/27/2022 2:28 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 3:32:24 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 9:05:17 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2/26/2022 9:57 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/26/2022 1:47 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 11:32:25 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 6:06 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 12:02:17 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 11:19 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 10:49 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 5:49:51 PM UTC-8,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 6:44 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 12:27:31 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 9:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 7:57 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 8:31 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, of course I was ridiculing Franks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assertion, at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> least as I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understood him, that somehow one would be more,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or less,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stricken by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grief depending on the cause of death.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You're being totally unrealistic, in a foolish
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attempt to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pursue a nonsense argument.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Neither individuals nor society treat all deaths
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as equal,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nor have identical feelings about all deaths.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death of an elderly person who has lived a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> full life is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one thing. Perhaps it is regrettable depending on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conditions, but often people remark "Well, it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was time" or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something similar.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death from natural causes of a middle aged
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or younger
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person is generally treated as a bit more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regrettable. A
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar death of a child even more so.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> An accidental death of those people triggers yet
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regret, and may lead to anger at how such a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing could be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> allowed to happen.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a person rightfully triggers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outrage and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> criminal prosecution.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a child, even more outrage.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The killing of 20 children sitting in school is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> considered
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> truly heinous. At least, by people who are not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avid fans of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the weapon used.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes I understand you and you're not wrong in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> principle but policy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> based
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on anomalies doesn't always work out well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/1927-bombing-remains-americas-deadliest-school-massacre-180963355/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A British-born engineer and colleague of mine in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 1970s used to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mock
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a slogan the NRA promoted in those days. He said
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "And when bombs are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outlawed, only outlaws will have bombs."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if today's pretend soldiers will use the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Second Amendment to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> call for free use and possession of bombs?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are slipping right down into the throes of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> silly ness.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your colleague's mocking comment is pretty silly as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> today, in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> U.S., several states with rather severe hand gun
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> control laws are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finding more and more being smuggled into the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> state. So it is a truism
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that when guns are outlawed only criminals will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have guns.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You might try a google search on "gun+smuggle". I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get 15,600,000
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "hits".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/gun-trafficking-ring-ohio-camden-new-jersey-weapons-arrests/205248/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Out here in the actual world it's the same market
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as dope. Prohibition or hyper regulatory tax schemes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guarantee a higher profit to contraband.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK, you guys have convinced me! Laws never work, so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we should outlaw
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all laws. Got it!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Since this is Usenet, I may have to say that was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sarcasm.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Suggestions welcome.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Canadian laws.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> British laws.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> French laws.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Heck, Swiss laws. Lots of guns, but in "well regulated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> militias." And
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> far, far less gun crime than the U.S.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Very few developed nations emulate the U.S.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Re Canadian laws...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I did a bit of research and Canada has a far lower
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> incident of violent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> crime, i.e. law breaking, then the U.S.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you suppose that this is a matter of better laws or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is it a matter
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of a more law abiding people?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, I suspect the same applies to The British, and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Swiss.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Got it. It has nothing to do with laws or national
>>>>>>>>>>>>> policies! The people
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in (say) Windsor, Ontario are a different species than
>>>>>>>>>>>>> those in (say)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Detroit, Michigan. Their motivations, morals, reflexes
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and behaviors are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> all very, very different. And the people south of that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> border can never,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ever be expected to stop trying to kill one another.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm learning so much here!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Again, please note the sarcasm.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Be as sarcastic as you will but reality shows a very
>>>>>>>>>>>> different
>>>>>>>>>>>> picture:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Crime
>>>>>>>>>>>> Offences / 100,000 population Canada
>>>>>>>>>>>> Offences / 100,000 population U.S.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Rape
>>>>>>>>>>>> Canada 1.69
>>>>>>>>>>>> U.S. 27.31
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Assault
>>>>>>>>>>>> Canada 150.81
>>>>>>>>>>>> U.S. 246.84
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Incarcerated
>>>>>>>>>>>> Canada 104
>>>>>>>>>>>> U.S. 629
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And your explanation for the differences, please? Is it
>>>>>>>>>>> genetics? Are Canadians (like Brits, Irish, French, Dutch
>>>>>>>>>>> etc.) are born with some special law abiding gene that's
>>>>>>>>>>> missing in Americans?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Or is there a chance that a nation's policies and laws
>>>>>>>>>>> actually affect citizens' behaviors?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Laws and policies are dynamic and (more or less) reflect the
>>>>>>>>>> culture. Where there is significant conflict (i.e.,
>>>>>>>>>> Prohibition) the laws and/or policies change, not the culture.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You may well argue that alcohol is an anomaly and you meant
>>>>>>>>>> well understood crimes of long standing such as theft and
>>>>>>>>>> robbery and that those are different. You'd be wrong.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/new-yorks-no-bail-law-leaves-a-trail-of-violence/ar-BB1gmfaq
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/06/us/alvin-bragg-manhattan-district-attorney-crimes-prosecution/index.html
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.foxla.com/news/gascon-launches-diversion-program-for-minors-who-commit-felony-burglary-vehicle-theft-robbery
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-justice/commentary/meet-chesa-boudin-the-rogue-prosecutor-wreaking-havoc-san-francisco
>>>>>>>>> You need only look at the massive increase in the most violent crimes under the Democrats to see that they have played directly into the hands of the criminals.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/10/27/what-we-know-about-the-increase-in-u-s-murders-in-2020/ft_21-010-19_murderrate_3a/
>>>>>>>> Shows murders from about 1968 to 2020. Up with Nixon, down a bit with Ford, then up with Carter, then down and up with Reagan and Bush1, then down down down with Clinton, Bush2, Obama first term, then up Obama second term and UP UP UP at the end of Trump term. Trump had the HIGHEST increase in history for murders during his final year.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes that's true but you miss the state/local differences
>>>>>>> which are critical because Federal murder prosecution is
>>>>>>> extremely rare:
>>>>>>> https://qz.com/162289/217-years-of-homicide-in-new-york/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Typically (shows local differences)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://static01.nyt.com/images/2016/09/08/us/us-murder-rates-1473385452240/us-murder-rates-1473385452240-videoSixteenByNine3000.png?year=2016&h=1687&w=3000&sig=0xa5fc7ca9d975cc8f21d29a25deecab99&tw=1
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Can't find comparative charts through 2021, a year in which
>>>>>>> many cities gave up on law enforcement (or actively promoted
>>>>>>> arson riot and looting) but here's a resource through 2019:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.disastercenter.com/crime/nycrime.htm
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do you really believe those statistics? They are plainly being manipulated by using numbers per 100,000 rather than actual numbers. Exactly how much are they rounding off and in which direction? It is all BS if you ask me.
>>>>>>
>>>>> OK.
>>>>> Time is finite and I spent as much of it as I thought
>>>>> appropriate on a web search. Find better data and link it
>>>>> when you find it, THX.
>>>> I don't quite understand the problem here Andrew. The Democrats simply hide the numbers of deaths by putting them in a context in which they don't look "that bad".
>>>>
>>>> For instance, there were almost three times as many people murdered in New York City in 2021 than have fallen so far in the Ukraine!
>>>
>>> Russia attacked Ukraine on Wednesday last week. So Russia has been attacking Ukraine for 5 days now. I saw an article on Yahoo that said 352 dead Ukrainians so far. About 70 per day killed by Russians. New York City had 365 days during 2021. 365 x 70 = 25,500. I'm not too surprised New York City had more people murdered in 2021 than have died in Ukraine so far. Heck, if they only murdered one person per day in New York City in 2021, they would still outnumber the amount of Ukrainians killed by Russia. But Tommy boy is claiming three times as many murdered in New York City than in Ukraine. I have 352 murdered in Ukraine by Russia. So three times that is about 1056. I used Google to look up the murders in New York City in 2021. 485 is the total. So New York City in all of 2021 had 38% more murders than the number of people killed in Ukraine by Russia. Tommy, did you get your "three times" number by dividing 1 by 38% and getting 2.63 and then rounded up to 3?
>>>
>>> https://nypost.com/2022/01/01/nyc-recorded-485-murders-in-2021/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> There were MORE Americans murdered in Chicago over the length of the Iraq War than there were in Iraq! If you allow these morons to continue to pay games with statistics no one knows or can understand anything. What is going on in Democrat led cities and states is nothing less than a war.
>>>>
>>>> Of course we could be stupid like Frank and blame it on guns. Or we can face the facts that the Democrats make condition of hatred in groups in order to foment support simply to obtain control of the masses. Don't you think we should stop playing their games?
>>
>> Well, how about some pleasant numbers instead?
>>
>> The 'inadequate' Ukraine military with large numbers of
>> 'unskilled' citizenry have dispatched a few thousand Russian
>> conscripts and taken prisoners, wrecked hundreds of vehicles
>> (including with molotovs) and shown great courage along with
>> their resourcefulness.
>
> Is that from the current escapade?
>
> I tried looking up "Deaths in Ukraine War" and found that there has
> been considerable unrest in the Ukraine since 2014, at least, with
> quite a bit of pro Russian sentiment and anti Russian sentiment
> occurring.
>
> Apparently the current situation is really not as isolated an event
> as the news, or at least the news here, might have it.
>
> Which, of course, doesn't justify anything but it is interesting to
> see that the current "war" has an 8 year history of discord.
>

On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 19:18:54 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 7:10:27 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 18:54:45 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
>> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 2:52:57 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
>> >> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 10:41:47 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>> >> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >The person who INTRODUCED the topic of rapes says I was the one who
>> >> >changed the subject?
>> >> >
>> >> >Wow.
>> >> >
>> >> Nice try (:-) But No, I didn't introduce the topic of Rape, per se.
>> >
>> >To prove that's not bullshit, John, please cite where someone other than you
>> >mentioned rape data in this thread. Because I must have missed that.
>> >
>> >- Frank Krygowski
>> Ah Frank. A bit of a problem with languages? "per se" - " a Latin
>> phrase literally meaning “by itself.”
>>
>> Perhaps a little problem in comprehension? Or a deliberate attempt to
>> mask the fact that Canada, in general, has far less violent crime then
>> the U.S.?
>
>You mean you want a break because you introduced the topic of rape at the
>same time you used other words?
>
>Wow.
>
>- Frank Krygowski

I really don't care. If you want to fantasize that in some manner
you've won the argument then go ahead. Perhaps your ego requires
stroking. "Self Gratification"?

I simply posted facts which you seem unable to accept. If you can't
accept reality then just carry on with your own dementia. After all
that's what Tom does.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 9:16:34 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
> On 2/27/2022 8:20 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 4:19:21 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 11:02:52 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >>> On 2/27/2022 11:47 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 9:17:29 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>> On 2/27/2022 2:28 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>>>>> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 3:32:24 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 9:05:17 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On 2/26/2022 9:57 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On 2/26/2022 1:47 AM, John B. wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 11:32:25 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> >>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 6:06 PM, John B. wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 12:02:17 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> >>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 11:19 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 10:49 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 5:49:51 PM UTC-8,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 6:44 PM, John B. wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 12:27:31 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 9:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 7:57 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 8:31 PM, John B. wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, of course I was ridiculing Franks
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assertion, at
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> least as I
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understood him, that somehow one would be more,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or less,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stricken by
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grief depending on the cause of death.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You're being totally unrealistic, in a foolish
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attempt to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pursue a nonsense argument.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Neither individuals nor society treat all deaths
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as equal,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nor have identical feelings about all deaths.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death of an elderly person who has lived a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> full life is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one thing. Perhaps it is regrettable depending on
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conditions, but often people remark "Well, it
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was time" or
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something similar.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death from natural causes of a middle aged
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or younger
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person is generally treated as a bit more
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regrettable. A
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar death of a child even more so.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> An accidental death of those people triggers yet
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regret, and may lead to anger at how such a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing could be
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> allowed to happen.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a person rightfully triggers
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outrage and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> criminal prosecution.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a child, even more outrage.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The killing of 20 children sitting in school is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> considered
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> truly heinous. At least, by people who are not
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avid fans of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the weapon used.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes I understand you and you're not wrong in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> principle but policy
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> based
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on anomalies doesn't always work out well.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/1927-bombing-remains-americas-deadliest-school-massacre-180963355/
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A British-born engineer and colleague of mine in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 1970s used to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mock
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a slogan the NRA promoted in those days. He said
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "And when bombs are
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outlawed, only outlaws will have bombs."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if today's pretend soldiers will use the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Second Amendment to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> call for free use and possession of bombs?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are slipping right down into the throes of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> silly ness.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your colleague's mocking comment is pretty silly as
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> today, in the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> U.S., several states with rather severe hand gun
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> control laws are
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finding more and more being smuggled into the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> state. So it is a truism
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that when guns are outlawed only criminals will
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have guns.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You might try a google search on "gun+smuggle". I
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get 15,600,000
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "hits".
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/gun-trafficking-ring-ohio-camden-new-jersey-weapons-arrests/205248/
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Out here in the actual world it's the same market
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as dope. Prohibition or hyper regulatory tax schemes
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guarantee a higher profit to contraband.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK, you guys have convinced me! Laws never work, so
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we should outlaw
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all laws. Got it!
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Since this is Usenet, I may have to say that was
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sarcasm.)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Suggestions welcome.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> OK:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Canadian laws.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> British laws.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> French laws.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Heck, Swiss laws. Lots of guns, but in "well regulated
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> militias." And
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> far, far less gun crime than the U.S.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Very few developed nations emulate the U.S.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Re Canadian laws...
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I did a bit of research and Canada has a far lower
> >>>>>>>>>>>> incident of violent
> >>>>>>>>>>>> crime, i.e. law breaking, then the U.S.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Do you suppose that this is a matter of better laws or
> >>>>>>>>>>>> is it a matter
> >>>>>>>>>>>> of a more law abiding people?
> >>>>>>>>>>>> And, I suspect the same applies to The British, and the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Swiss.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Got it. It has nothing to do with laws or national
> >>>>>>>>>>> policies! The people
> >>>>>>>>>>> in (say) Windsor, Ontario are a different species than
> >>>>>>>>>>> those in (say)
> >>>>>>>>>>> Detroit, Michigan. Their motivations, morals, reflexes
> >>>>>>>>>>> and behaviors are
> >>>>>>>>>>> all very, very different. And the people south of that
> >>>>>>>>>>> border can never,
> >>>>>>>>>>> ever be expected to stop trying to kill one another.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I'm learning so much here!
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> (Again, please note the sarcasm.)
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Be as sarcastic as you will but reality shows a very
> >>>>>>>>>> different
> >>>>>>>>>> picture:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Crime
> >>>>>>>>>> Offences / 100,000 population Canada
> >>>>>>>>>> Offences / 100,000 population U.S.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Rape
> >>>>>>>>>> Canada 1.69
> >>>>>>>>>> U.S. 27.31
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Assault
> >>>>>>>>>> Canada 150.81
> >>>>>>>>>> U.S. 246.84
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Incarcerated
> >>>>>>>>>> Canada 104
> >>>>>>>>>> U.S. 629
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> And your explanation for the differences, please? Is it
> >>>>>>>>> genetics? Are Canadians (like Brits, Irish, French, Dutch
> >>>>>>>>> etc.) are born with some special law abiding gene that's
> >>>>>>>>> missing in Americans?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Or is there a chance that a nation's policies and laws
> >>>>>>>>> actually affect citizens' behaviors?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Laws and policies are dynamic and (more or less) reflect the
> >>>>>>>> culture. Where there is significant conflict (i.e.,
> >>>>>>>> Prohibition) the laws and/or policies change, not the culture.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> You may well argue that alcohol is an anomaly and you meant
> >>>>>>>> well understood crimes of long standing such as theft and
> >>>>>>>> robbery and that those are different. You'd be wrong.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/new-yorks-no-bail-law-leaves-a-trail-of-violence/ar-BB1gmfaq
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/06/us/alvin-bragg-manhattan-district-attorney-crimes-prosecution/index.html
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> https://www.foxla.com/news/gascon-launches-diversion-program-for-minors-who-commit-felony-burglary-vehicle-theft-robbery
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-justice/commentary/meet-chesa-boudin-the-rogue-prosecutor-wreaking-havoc-san-francisco
> >>>>>>> You need only look at the massive increase in the most violent crimes under the Democrats to see that they have played directly into the hands of the criminals.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/10/27/what-we-know-about-the-increase-in-u-s-murders-in-2020/ft_21-010-19_murderrate_3a/
> >>>>>> Shows murders from about 1968 to 2020. Up with Nixon, down a bit with Ford, then up with Carter, then down and up with Reagan and Bush1, then down down down with Clinton, Bush2, Obama first term, then up Obama second term and UP UP UP at the end of Trump term. Trump had the HIGHEST increase in history for murders during his final year.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> Yes that's true but you miss the state/local differences
> >>>>> which are critical because Federal murder prosecution is
> >>>>> extremely rare:
> >>>>> https://qz.com/162289/217-years-of-homicide-in-new-york/
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Typically (shows local differences)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://static01.nyt.com/images/2016/09/08/us/us-murder-rates-1473385452240/us-murder-rates-1473385452240-videoSixteenByNine3000.png?year=2016&h=1687&w=3000&sig=0xa5fc7ca9d975cc8f21d29a25deecab99&tw=1
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Can't find comparative charts through 2021, a year in which
> >>>>> many cities gave up on law enforcement (or actively promoted
> >>>>> arson riot and looting) but here's a resource through 2019:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://www.disastercenter.com/crime/nycrime.htm
> >>>>
> >>>> Do you really believe those statistics? They are plainly being manipulated by using numbers per 100,000 rather than actual numbers. Exactly how much are they rounding off and in which direction? It is all BS if you ask me.
> >>>>
> >>> OK.
> >>> Time is finite and I spent as much of it as I thought
> >>> appropriate on a web search. Find better data and link it
> >>> when you find it, THX.
> >> I don't quite understand the problem here Andrew. The Democrats simply hide the numbers of deaths by putting them in a context in which they don't look "that bad".
> >>
> >> For instance, there were almost three times as many people murdered in New York City in 2021 than have fallen so far in the Ukraine!
> >
> > Russia attacked Ukraine on Wednesday last week. So Russia has been attacking Ukraine for 5 days now. I saw an article on Yahoo that said 352 dead Ukrainians so far. About 70 per day killed by Russians. New York City had 365 days during 2021. 365 x 70 = 25,500. I'm not too surprised New York City had more people murdered in 2021 than have died in Ukraine so far. Heck, if they only murdered one person per day in New York City in 2021, they would still outnumber the amount of Ukrainians killed by Russia. But Tommy boy is claiming three times as many murdered in New York City than in Ukraine.. I have 352 murdered in Ukraine by Russia. So three times that is about 1056. I used Google to look up the murders in New York City in 2021. 485 is the total. So New York City in all of 2021 had 38% more murders than the number of people killed in Ukraine by Russia. Tommy, did you get your "three times" number by dividing 1 by 38% and getting 2.63 and then rounded up to 3?
> >
> > https://nypost.com/2022/01/01/nyc-recorded-485-murders-in-2021/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> There were MORE Americans murdered in Chicago over the length of the Iraq War than there were in Iraq! If you allow these morons to continue to pay games with statistics no one knows or can understand anything. What is going on in Democrat led cities and states is nothing less than a war.
> >>
> >> Of course we could be stupid like Frank and blame it on guns. Or we can face the facts that the Democrats make condition of hatred in groups in order to foment support simply to obtain control of the masses. Don't you think we should stop playing their games?
> Well, how about some pleasant numbers instead?
>
> The 'inadequate' Ukraine military with large numbers of
> 'unskilled' citizenry have dispatched a few thousand Russian
> conscripts and taken prisoners, wrecked hundreds of vehicles
> (including with molotovs) and shown great courage along with
> their resourcefulness.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 9:39:36 PM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 21:16:32 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
> >On 2/27/2022 8:20 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 4:19:21 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 11:02:52 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>> On 2/27/2022 11:47 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 9:17:29 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>> On 2/27/2022 2:28 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 3:32:24 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail..com wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 9:05:17 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On 2/26/2022 9:57 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On 2/26/2022 1:47 AM, John B. wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 11:32:25 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> >>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 6:06 PM, John B. wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 12:02:17 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 11:19 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 10:49 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 5:49:51 PM UTC-8,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 6:44 PM, John B. wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 12:27:31 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 9:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 7:57 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 8:31 PM, John B. wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, of course I was ridiculing Franks
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assertion, at
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> least as I
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understood him, that somehow one would be more,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or less,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stricken by
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grief depending on the cause of death.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You're being totally unrealistic, in a foolish
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attempt to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pursue a nonsense argument.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Neither individuals nor society treat all deaths
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as equal,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nor have identical feelings about all deaths.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death of an elderly person who has lived a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> full life is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one thing. Perhaps it is regrettable depending on
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conditions, but often people remark "Well, it
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was time" or
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something similar.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death from natural causes of a middle aged
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or younger
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person is generally treated as a bit more
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regrettable. A
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar death of a child even more so.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> An accidental death of those people triggers yet
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regret, and may lead to anger at how such a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing could be
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> allowed to happen.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a person rightfully triggers
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outrage and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> criminal prosecution.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a child, even more outrage.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The killing of 20 children sitting in school is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> considered
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> truly heinous. At least, by people who are not
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avid fans of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the weapon used.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes I understand you and you're not wrong in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> principle but policy
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> based
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on anomalies doesn't always work out well.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/1927-bombing-remains-americas-deadliest-school-massacre-180963355/
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A British-born engineer and colleague of mine in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 1970s used to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mock
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a slogan the NRA promoted in those days. He said
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "And when bombs are
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outlawed, only outlaws will have bombs."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if today's pretend soldiers will use the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Second Amendment to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> call for free use and possession of bombs?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are slipping right down into the throes of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> silly ness.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your colleague's mocking comment is pretty silly as
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> today, in the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> U.S., several states with rather severe hand gun
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> control laws are
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finding more and more being smuggled into the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> state. So it is a truism
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that when guns are outlawed only criminals will
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have guns.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You might try a google search on "gun+smuggle". I
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get 15,600,000
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "hits".
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/gun-trafficking-ring-ohio-camden-new-jersey-weapons-arrests/205248/
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Out here in the actual world it's the same market
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as dope. Prohibition or hyper regulatory tax schemes
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guarantee a higher profit to contraband.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK, you guys have convinced me! Laws never work, so
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we should outlaw
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all laws. Got it!
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Since this is Usenet, I may have to say that was
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sarcasm.)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Suggestions welcome.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Canadian laws.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> British laws.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> French laws.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Heck, Swiss laws. Lots of guns, but in "well regulated
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> militias." And
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> far, far less gun crime than the U.S.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Very few developed nations emulate the U.S.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Re Canadian laws...
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I did a bit of research and Canada has a far lower
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> incident of violent
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> crime, i.e. law breaking, then the U.S.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you suppose that this is a matter of better laws or
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> is it a matter
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> of a more law abiding people?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> And, I suspect the same applies to The British, and the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Swiss.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Got it. It has nothing to do with laws or national
> >>>>>>>>>>>> policies! The people
> >>>>>>>>>>>> in (say) Windsor, Ontario are a different species than
> >>>>>>>>>>>> those in (say)
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Detroit, Michigan. Their motivations, morals, reflexes
> >>>>>>>>>>>> and behaviors are
> >>>>>>>>>>>> all very, very different. And the people south of that
> >>>>>>>>>>>> border can never,
> >>>>>>>>>>>> ever be expected to stop trying to kill one another.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm learning so much here!
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> (Again, please note the sarcasm.)
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Be as sarcastic as you will but reality shows a very
> >>>>>>>>>>> different
> >>>>>>>>>>> picture:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Crime
> >>>>>>>>>>> Offences / 100,000 population Canada
> >>>>>>>>>>> Offences / 100,000 population U.S.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Rape
> >>>>>>>>>>> Canada 1.69
> >>>>>>>>>>> U.S. 27.31
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Assault
> >>>>>>>>>>> Canada 150.81
> >>>>>>>>>>> U.S. 246.84
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Incarcerated
> >>>>>>>>>>> Canada 104
> >>>>>>>>>>> U.S. 629
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> And your explanation for the differences, please? Is it
> >>>>>>>>>> genetics? Are Canadians (like Brits, Irish, French, Dutch
> >>>>>>>>>> etc.) are born with some special law abiding gene that's
> >>>>>>>>>> missing in Americans?
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Or is there a chance that a nation's policies and laws
> >>>>>>>>>> actually affect citizens' behaviors?
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Laws and policies are dynamic and (more or less) reflect the
> >>>>>>>>> culture. Where there is significant conflict (i.e.,
> >>>>>>>>> Prohibition) the laws and/or policies change, not the culture.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> You may well argue that alcohol is an anomaly and you meant
> >>>>>>>>> well understood crimes of long standing such as theft and
> >>>>>>>>> robbery and that those are different. You'd be wrong.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/new-yorks-no-bail-law-leaves-a-trail-of-violence/ar-BB1gmfaq
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/06/us/alvin-bragg-manhattan-district-attorney-crimes-prosecution/index.html
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> https://www.foxla.com/news/gascon-launches-diversion-program-for-minors-who-commit-felony-burglary-vehicle-theft-robbery
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-justice/commentary/meet-chesa-boudin-the-rogue-prosecutor-wreaking-havoc-san-francisco
> >>>>>>>> You need only look at the massive increase in the most violent crimes under the Democrats to see that they have played directly into the hands of the criminals.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/10/27/what-we-know-about-the-increase-in-u-s-murders-in-2020/ft_21-010-19_murderrate_3a/
> >>>>>>> Shows murders from about 1968 to 2020. Up with Nixon, down a bit with Ford, then up with Carter, then down and up with Reagan and Bush1, then down down down with Clinton, Bush2, Obama first term, then up Obama second term and UP UP UP at the end of Trump term. Trump had the HIGHEST increase in history for murders during his final year.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> Yes that's true but you miss the state/local differences
> >>>>>> which are critical because Federal murder prosecution is
> >>>>>> extremely rare:
> >>>>>> https://qz.com/162289/217-years-of-homicide-in-new-york/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Typically (shows local differences)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> https://static01.nyt.com/images/2016/09/08/us/us-murder-rates-1473385452240/us-murder-rates-1473385452240-videoSixteenByNine3000.png?year=2016&h=1687&w=3000&sig=0xa5fc7ca9d975cc8f21d29a25deecab99&tw=1
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Can't find comparative charts through 2021, a year in which
> >>>>>> many cities gave up on law enforcement (or actively promoted
> >>>>>> arson riot and looting) but here's a resource through 2019:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> https://www.disastercenter.com/crime/nycrime.htm
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Do you really believe those statistics? They are plainly being manipulated by using numbers per 100,000 rather than actual numbers. Exactly how much are they rounding off and in which direction? It is all BS if you ask me.
> >>>>>
> >>>> OK.
> >>>> Time is finite and I spent as much of it as I thought
> >>>> appropriate on a web search. Find better data and link it
> >>>> when you find it, THX.
> >>> I don't quite understand the problem here Andrew. The Democrats simply hide the numbers of deaths by putting them in a context in which they don't look "that bad".
> >>>
> >>> For instance, there were almost three times as many people murdered in New York City in 2021 than have fallen so far in the Ukraine!
> >>
> >> Russia attacked Ukraine on Wednesday last week. So Russia has been attacking Ukraine for 5 days now. I saw an article on Yahoo that said 352 dead Ukrainians so far. About 70 per day killed by Russians. New York City had 365 days during 2021. 365 x 70 = 25,500. I'm not too surprised New York City had more people murdered in 2021 than have died in Ukraine so far. Heck, if they only murdered one person per day in New York City in 2021, they would still outnumber the amount of Ukrainians killed by Russia. But Tommy boy is claiming three times as many murdered in New York City than in Ukraine. I have 352 murdered in Ukraine by Russia. So three times that is about 1056. I used Google to look up the murders in New York City in 2021. 485 is the total. So New York City in all of 2021 had 38% more murders than the number of people killed in Ukraine by Russia. Tommy, did you get your "three times" number by dividing 1 by 38% and getting 2.63 and then rounded up to 3?
> >>
> >> https://nypost.com/2022/01/01/nyc-recorded-485-murders-in-2021/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> There were MORE Americans murdered in Chicago over the length of the Iraq War than there were in Iraq! If you allow these morons to continue to pay games with statistics no one knows or can understand anything. What is going on in Democrat led cities and states is nothing less than a war.
> >>>
> >>> Of course we could be stupid like Frank and blame it on guns. Or we can face the facts that the Democrats make condition of hatred in groups in order to foment support simply to obtain control of the masses. Don't you think we should stop playing their games?
> >
> >Well, how about some pleasant numbers instead?
> >
> >The 'inadequate' Ukraine military with large numbers of
> >'unskilled' citizenry have dispatched a few thousand Russian
> >conscripts and taken prisoners, wrecked hundreds of vehicles
> >(including with molotovs) and shown great courage along with
> >their resourcefulness.
> Is that from the current escapade?
>
> I tried looking up "Deaths in Ukraine War" and found that there has
> been considerable unrest in the Ukraine since 2014, at least, with
> quite a bit of pro Russian sentiment and anti Russian sentiment
> occurring.
>
> Apparently the current situation is really not as isolated an event
> as the news, or at least the news here, might have it.
>
> Which, of course, doesn't justify anything but it is interesting to
> see that the current "war" has an 8 year history of discord.
> --
> Cheers,
>
> John B.

On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 22:24:10 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 2/27/2022 9:39 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 21:16:32 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/27/2022 8:20 PM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 4:19:21 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 11:02:52 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>> On 2/27/2022 11:47 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 9:17:29 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2/27/2022 2:28 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 3:32:24 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 9:05:17 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/26/2022 9:57 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/26/2022 1:47 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 11:32:25 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 6:06 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 12:02:17 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 11:19 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 10:49 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 5:49:51 PM UTC-8,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 6:44 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 12:27:31 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 9:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 7:57 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 8:31 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, of course I was ridiculing Franks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assertion, at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> least as I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understood him, that somehow one would be more,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or less,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stricken by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grief depending on the cause of death.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You're being totally unrealistic, in a foolish
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attempt to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pursue a nonsense argument.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Neither individuals nor society treat all deaths
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as equal,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nor have identical feelings about all deaths.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death of an elderly person who has lived a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> full life is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one thing. Perhaps it is regrettable depending on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conditions, but often people remark "Well, it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was time" or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something similar.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death from natural causes of a middle aged
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or younger
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person is generally treated as a bit more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regrettable. A
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar death of a child even more so.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> An accidental death of those people triggers yet
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regret, and may lead to anger at how such a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing could be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> allowed to happen.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a person rightfully triggers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outrage and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> criminal prosecution.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a child, even more outrage.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The killing of 20 children sitting in school is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> considered
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> truly heinous. At least, by people who are not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avid fans of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the weapon used.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes I understand you and you're not wrong in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> principle but policy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> based
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on anomalies doesn't always work out well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/1927-bombing-remains-americas-deadliest-school-massacre-180963355/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A British-born engineer and colleague of mine in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 1970s used to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mock
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a slogan the NRA promoted in those days. He said
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "And when bombs are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outlawed, only outlaws will have bombs."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if today's pretend soldiers will use the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Second Amendment to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> call for free use and possession of bombs?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are slipping right down into the throes of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> silly ness.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your colleague's mocking comment is pretty silly as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> today, in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> U.S., several states with rather severe hand gun
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> control laws are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finding more and more being smuggled into the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> state. So it is a truism
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that when guns are outlawed only criminals will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have guns.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You might try a google search on "gun+smuggle". I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get 15,600,000
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "hits".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/gun-trafficking-ring-ohio-camden-new-jersey-weapons-arrests/205248/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Out here in the actual world it's the same market
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as dope. Prohibition or hyper regulatory tax schemes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guarantee a higher profit to contraband.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK, you guys have convinced me! Laws never work, so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we should outlaw
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all laws. Got it!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Since this is Usenet, I may have to say that was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sarcasm.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Suggestions welcome.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Canadian laws.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> British laws.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> French laws.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Heck, Swiss laws. Lots of guns, but in "well regulated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> militias." And
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> far, far less gun crime than the U.S.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Very few developed nations emulate the U.S.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Re Canadian laws...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I did a bit of research and Canada has a far lower
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> incident of violent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> crime, i.e. law breaking, then the U.S.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you suppose that this is a matter of better laws or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is it a matter
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of a more law abiding people?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, I suspect the same applies to The British, and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Swiss.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Got it. It has nothing to do with laws or national
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> policies! The people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in (say) Windsor, Ontario are a different species than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those in (say)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Detroit, Michigan. Their motivations, morals, reflexes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and behaviors are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all very, very different. And the people south of that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> border can never,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ever be expected to stop trying to kill one another.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm learning so much here!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Again, please note the sarcasm.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Be as sarcastic as you will but reality shows a very
>>>>>>>>>>>>> different
>>>>>>>>>>>>> picture:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Crime
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Offences / 100,000 population Canada
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Offences / 100,000 population U.S.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rape
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Canada 1.69
>>>>>>>>>>>>> U.S. 27.31
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Assault
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Canada 150.81
>>>>>>>>>>>>> U.S. 246.84
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Incarcerated
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Canada 104
>>>>>>>>>>>>> U.S. 629
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And your explanation for the differences, please? Is it
>>>>>>>>>>>> genetics? Are Canadians (like Brits, Irish, French, Dutch
>>>>>>>>>>>> etc.) are born with some special law abiding gene that's
>>>>>>>>>>>> missing in Americans?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Or is there a chance that a nation's policies and laws
>>>>>>>>>>>> actually affect citizens' behaviors?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Laws and policies are dynamic and (more or less) reflect the
>>>>>>>>>>> culture. Where there is significant conflict (i.e.,
>>>>>>>>>>> Prohibition) the laws and/or policies change, not the culture.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You may well argue that alcohol is an anomaly and you meant
>>>>>>>>>>> well understood crimes of long standing such as theft and
>>>>>>>>>>> robbery and that those are different. You'd be wrong.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/new-yorks-no-bail-law-leaves-a-trail-of-violence/ar-BB1gmfaq
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/06/us/alvin-bragg-manhattan-district-attorney-crimes-prosecution/index.html
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.foxla.com/news/gascon-launches-diversion-program-for-minors-who-commit-felony-burglary-vehicle-theft-robbery
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-justice/commentary/meet-chesa-boudin-the-rogue-prosecutor-wreaking-havoc-san-francisco
>>>>>>>>>> You need only look at the massive increase in the most violent crimes under the Democrats to see that they have played directly into the hands of the criminals.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/10/27/what-we-know-about-the-increase-in-u-s-murders-in-2020/ft_21-010-19_murderrate_3a/
>>>>>>>>> Shows murders from about 1968 to 2020. Up with Nixon, down a bit with Ford, then up with Carter, then down and up with Reagan and Bush1, then down down down with Clinton, Bush2, Obama first term, then up Obama second term and UP UP UP at the end of Trump term. Trump had the HIGHEST increase in history for murders during his final year.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes that's true but you miss the state/local differences
>>>>>>>> which are critical because Federal murder prosecution is
>>>>>>>> extremely rare:
>>>>>>>> https://qz.com/162289/217-years-of-homicide-in-new-york/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Typically (shows local differences)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://static01.nyt.com/images/2016/09/08/us/us-murder-rates-1473385452240/us-murder-rates-1473385452240-videoSixteenByNine3000.png?year=2016&h=1687&w=3000&sig=0xa5fc7ca9d975cc8f21d29a25deecab99&tw=1
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Can't find comparative charts through 2021, a year in which
>>>>>>>> many cities gave up on law enforcement (or actively promoted
>>>>>>>> arson riot and looting) but here's a resource through 2019:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.disastercenter.com/crime/nycrime.htm
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Do you really believe those statistics? They are plainly being manipulated by using numbers per 100,000 rather than actual numbers. Exactly how much are they rounding off and in which direction? It is all BS if you ask me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> OK.
>>>>>> Time is finite and I spent as much of it as I thought
>>>>>> appropriate on a web search. Find better data and link it
>>>>>> when you find it, THX.
>>>>> I don't quite understand the problem here Andrew. The Democrats simply hide the numbers of deaths by putting them in a context in which they don't look "that bad".
>>>>>
>>>>> For instance, there were almost three times as many people murdered in New York City in 2021 than have fallen so far in the Ukraine!
>>>>
>>>> Russia attacked Ukraine on Wednesday last week. So Russia has been attacking Ukraine for 5 days now. I saw an article on Yahoo that said 352 dead Ukrainians so far. About 70 per day killed by Russians. New York City had 365 days during 2021. 365 x 70 = 25,500. I'm not too surprised New York City had more people murdered in 2021 than have died in Ukraine so far. Heck, if they only murdered one person per day in New York City in 2021, they would still outnumber the amount of Ukrainians killed by Russia. But Tommy boy is claiming three times as many murdered in New York City than in Ukraine. I have 352 murdered in Ukraine by Russia. So three times that is about 1056. I used Google to look up the murders in New York City in 2021. 485 is the total. So New York City in all of 2021 had 38% more murders than the number of people killed in Ukraine by Russia. Tommy, did you get your "three times" number by dividing 1 by 38% and getting 2.63 and then rounded up to 3?
>>>>
>>>> https://nypost.com/2022/01/01/nyc-recorded-485-murders-in-2021/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> There were MORE Americans murdered in Chicago over the length of the Iraq War than there were in Iraq! If you allow these morons to continue to pay games with statistics no one knows or can understand anything. What is going on in Democrat led cities and states is nothing less than a war.
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course we could be stupid like Frank and blame it on guns. Or we can face the facts that the Democrats make condition of hatred in groups in order to foment support simply to obtain control of the masses. Don't you think we should stop playing their games?
>>>
>>> Well, how about some pleasant numbers instead?
>>>
>>> The 'inadequate' Ukraine military with large numbers of
>>> 'unskilled' citizenry have dispatched a few thousand Russian
>>> conscripts and taken prisoners, wrecked hundreds of vehicles
>>> (including with molotovs) and shown great courage along with
>>> their resourcefulness.
>>
>> Is that from the current escapade?
>>
>> I tried looking up "Deaths in Ukraine War" and found that there has
>> been considerable unrest in the Ukraine since 2014, at least, with
>> quite a bit of pro Russian sentiment and anti Russian sentiment
>> occurring.
>>
>> Apparently the current situation is really not as isolated an event
>> as the news, or at least the news here, might have it.
>>
>> Which, of course, doesn't justify anything but it is interesting to
>> see that the current "war" has an 8 year history of discord.
>>
>
>I meant this week.
>
>US sources are avoiding this. I spent an hour plus today
>looking at weekend combat video on Le Monde, ITV, Sky, some
>Indian and Japanese sources, news.com.au, RFE etc.
>
>As an aside, satellites make armchair generalship much more
>interesting. My opinion at this point is that the plan
>generally was either cockamamie or ill considered by the
>logistics staff and hence sandbagged. There are too many
>attack points for the available resources and support has
>been at an all-time dysfunctional level, including armored
>columns stranded for lack of diesel. One thinks of LBJ's
>micromanaging sorties in Vietnam, it's that bad.

On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 22:13:45 -0800 (PST), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
<ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 9:39:36 PM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 21:16:32 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>> >On 2/27/2022 8:20 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> >> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 4:19:21 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 11:02:52 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> >>>> On 2/27/2022 11:47 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >>>>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 9:17:29 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> >>>>>> On 2/27/2022 2:28 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> >>>>>>> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 3:32:24 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >>>>>>>> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 9:05:17 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>> On 2/26/2022 9:57 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>> On 2/26/2022 1:47 AM, John B. wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 11:32:25 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>> >>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 6:06 PM, John B. wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 12:02:17 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 11:19 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 10:49 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 5:49:51 PM UTC-8,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AMuzi wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 6:44 PM, John B. wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 12:27:31 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 9:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 7:57 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 8:31 PM, John B. wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, of course I was ridiculing Franks
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assertion, at
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> least as I
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understood him, that somehow one would be more,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or less,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stricken by
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grief depending on the cause of death.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You're being totally unrealistic, in a foolish
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attempt to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pursue a nonsense argument.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Neither individuals nor society treat all deaths
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as equal,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nor have identical feelings about all deaths.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death of an elderly person who has lived a
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> full life is
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one thing. Perhaps it is regrettable depending on
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conditions, but often people remark "Well, it
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was time" or
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something similar.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death from natural causes of a middle aged
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or younger
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person is generally treated as a bit more
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regrettable. A
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar death of a child even more so.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> An accidental death of those people triggers yet
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regret, and may lead to anger at how such a
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing could be
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> allowed to happen.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a person rightfully triggers
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outrage and
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> criminal prosecution.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a child, even more outrage.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The killing of 20 children sitting in school is
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> considered
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> truly heinous. At least, by people who are not
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avid fans of
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the weapon used.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes I understand you and you're not wrong in
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> principle but policy
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> based
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on anomalies doesn't always work out well.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/1927-bombing-remains-americas-deadliest-school-massacre-180963355/
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A British-born engineer and colleague of mine in
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 1970s used to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mock
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a slogan the NRA promoted in those days. He said
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "And when bombs are
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outlawed, only outlaws will have bombs."
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if today's pretend soldiers will use the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Second Amendment to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> call for free use and possession of bombs?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are slipping right down into the throes of
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> silly ness.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your colleague's mocking comment is pretty silly as
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> today, in the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> U.S., several states with rather severe hand gun
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> control laws are
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finding more and more being smuggled into the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> state. So it is a truism
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that when guns are outlawed only criminals will
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have guns.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You might try a google search on "gun+smuggle". I
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get 15,600,000
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "hits".
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/gun-trafficking-ring-ohio-camden-new-jersey-weapons-arrests/205248/
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Out here in the actual world it's the same market
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as dope. Prohibition or hyper regulatory tax schemes
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guarantee a higher profit to contraband.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK, you guys have convinced me! Laws never work, so
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we should outlaw
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all laws. Got it!
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Since this is Usenet, I may have to say that was
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sarcasm.)
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Suggestions welcome.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Canadian laws.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> British laws.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> French laws.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Heck, Swiss laws. Lots of guns, but in "well regulated
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> militias." And
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> far, far less gun crime than the U.S.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Very few developed nations emulate the U.S.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Re Canadian laws...
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I did a bit of research and Canada has a far lower
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> incident of violent
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> crime, i.e. law breaking, then the U.S.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you suppose that this is a matter of better laws or
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> is it a matter
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> of a more law abiding people?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> And, I suspect the same applies to The British, and the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Swiss.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Got it. It has nothing to do with laws or national
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> policies! The people
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> in (say) Windsor, Ontario are a different species than
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> those in (say)
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Detroit, Michigan. Their motivations, morals, reflexes
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> and behaviors are
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> all very, very different. And the people south of that
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> border can never,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ever be expected to stop trying to kill one another.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm learning so much here!
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> (Again, please note the sarcasm.)
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Be as sarcastic as you will but reality shows a very
>> >>>>>>>>>>> different
>> >>>>>>>>>>> picture:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Crime
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Offences / 100,000 population Canada
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Offences / 100,000 population U.S.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Rape
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Canada 1.69
>> >>>>>>>>>>> U.S. 27.31
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Assault
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Canada 150.81
>> >>>>>>>>>>> U.S. 246.84
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Incarcerated
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Canada 104
>> >>>>>>>>>>> U.S. 629
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> And your explanation for the differences, please? Is it
>> >>>>>>>>>> genetics? Are Canadians (like Brits, Irish, French, Dutch
>> >>>>>>>>>> etc.) are born with some special law abiding gene that's
>> >>>>>>>>>> missing in Americans?
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Or is there a chance that a nation's policies and laws
>> >>>>>>>>>> actually affect citizens' behaviors?
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Laws and policies are dynamic and (more or less) reflect the
>> >>>>>>>>> culture. Where there is significant conflict (i.e.,
>> >>>>>>>>> Prohibition) the laws and/or policies change, not the culture.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> You may well argue that alcohol is an anomaly and you meant
>> >>>>>>>>> well understood crimes of long standing such as theft and
>> >>>>>>>>> robbery and that those are different. You'd be wrong.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/new-yorks-no-bail-law-leaves-a-trail-of-violence/ar-BB1gmfaq
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/06/us/alvin-bragg-manhattan-district-attorney-crimes-prosecution/index.html
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> https://www.foxla.com/news/gascon-launches-diversion-program-for-minors-who-commit-felony-burglary-vehicle-theft-robbery
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-justice/commentary/meet-chesa-boudin-the-rogue-prosecutor-wreaking-havoc-san-francisco
>> >>>>>>>> You need only look at the massive increase in the most violent crimes under the Democrats to see that they have played directly into the hands of the criminals.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/10/27/what-we-know-about-the-increase-in-u-s-murders-in-2020/ft_21-010-19_murderrate_3a/
>> >>>>>>> Shows murders from about 1968 to 2020. Up with Nixon, down a bit with Ford, then up with Carter, then down and up with Reagan and Bush1, then down down down with Clinton, Bush2, Obama first term, then up Obama second term and UP UP UP at the end of Trump term. Trump had the HIGHEST increase in history for murders during his final year.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Yes that's true but you miss the state/local differences
>> >>>>>> which are critical because Federal murder prosecution is
>> >>>>>> extremely rare:
>> >>>>>> https://qz.com/162289/217-years-of-homicide-in-new-york/
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Typically (shows local differences)
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> https://static01.nyt.com/images/2016/09/08/us/us-murder-rates-1473385452240/us-murder-rates-1473385452240-videoSixteenByNine3000.png?year=2016&h=1687&w=3000&sig=0xa5fc7ca9d975cc8f21d29a25deecab99&tw=1
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Can't find comparative charts through 2021, a year in which
>> >>>>>> many cities gave up on law enforcement (or actively promoted
>> >>>>>> arson riot and looting) but here's a resource through 2019:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> https://www.disastercenter.com/crime/nycrime.htm
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Do you really believe those statistics? They are plainly being manipulated by using numbers per 100,000 rather than actual numbers. Exactly how much are they rounding off and in which direction? It is all BS if you ask me.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>> OK.
>> >>>> Time is finite and I spent as much of it as I thought
>> >>>> appropriate on a web search. Find better data and link it
>> >>>> when you find it, THX.
>> >>> I don't quite understand the problem here Andrew. The Democrats simply hide the numbers of deaths by putting them in a context in which they don't look "that bad".
>> >>>
>> >>> For instance, there were almost three times as many people murdered in New York City in 2021 than have fallen so far in the Ukraine!
>> >>
>> >> Russia attacked Ukraine on Wednesday last week. So Russia has been attacking Ukraine for 5 days now. I saw an article on Yahoo that said 352 dead Ukrainians so far. About 70 per day killed by Russians. New York City had 365 days during 2021. 365 x 70 = 25,500. I'm not too surprised New York City had more people murdered in 2021 than have died in Ukraine so far. Heck, if they only murdered one person per day in New York City in 2021, they would still outnumber the amount of Ukrainians killed by Russia. But Tommy boy is claiming three times as many murdered in New York City than in Ukraine. I have 352 murdered in Ukraine by Russia. So three times that is about 1056. I used Google to look up the murders in New York City in 2021. 485 is the total. So New York City in all of 2021 had 38% more murders than the number of people killed in Ukraine by Russia. Tommy, did you get your "three times" number by dividing 1 by 38% and getting 2.63 and then rounded up to 3?
>> >>
>> >> https://nypost.com/2022/01/01/nyc-recorded-485-murders-in-2021/
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> There were MORE Americans murdered in Chicago over the length of the Iraq War than there were in Iraq! If you allow these morons to continue to pay games with statistics no one knows or can understand anything. What is going on in Democrat led cities and states is nothing less than a war.
>> >>>
>> >>> Of course we could be stupid like Frank and blame it on guns. Or we can face the facts that the Democrats make condition of hatred in groups in order to foment support simply to obtain control of the masses. Don't you think we should stop playing their games?
>> >
>> >Well, how about some pleasant numbers instead?
>> >
>> >The 'inadequate' Ukraine military with large numbers of
>> >'unskilled' citizenry have dispatched a few thousand Russian
>> >conscripts and taken prisoners, wrecked hundreds of vehicles
>> >(including with molotovs) and shown great courage along with
>> >their resourcefulness.
>> Is that from the current escapade?
>>
>> I tried looking up "Deaths in Ukraine War" and found that there has
>> been considerable unrest in the Ukraine since 2014, at least, with
>> quite a bit of pro Russian sentiment and anti Russian sentiment
>> occurring.
>>
>> Apparently the current situation is really not as isolated an event
>> as the news, or at least the news here, might have it.
>>
>> Which, of course, doesn't justify anything but it is interesting to
>> see that the current "war" has an 8 year history of discord.
>> --
>> Cheers,
>>
>> John B.
>
>As Andy replied, this week. Since last Wednesday or Thursday I believe. Crimea peninsula was taken over by Russia in 2014. I forget how much battle occurred then. And the two areas of Ukraine in the SE corner in which Putin said now belong to Russia last week, there has been fighting between pro Russia and pro Ukraine forces there for several years now. But I don't believe they have been shooting and bombing non stop every day for several years now. I think its more of a shooting breaks out every now and then situation. Not non stop shooting. I think the current invasion is non stop shooting and bombing going on. All over Ukraine. Especially Kyiv Ukraine where 3 million people live.

On 2/28/2022 12:04 AM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 9:16:34 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 2/27/2022 8:20 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 4:19:21 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 11:02:52 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>> On 2/27/2022 11:47 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 9:17:29 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2/27/2022 2:28 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 3:32:24 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 9:05:17 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2/26/2022 9:57 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/26/2022 1:47 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 11:32:25 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 6:06 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 12:02:17 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 11:19 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 10:49 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 5:49:51 PM UTC-8,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 6:44 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 12:27:31 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 9:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 7:57 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 8:31 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, of course I was ridiculing Franks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assertion, at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> least as I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understood him, that somehow one would be more,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or less,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stricken by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grief depending on the cause of death.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You're being totally unrealistic, in a foolish
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attempt to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pursue a nonsense argument.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Neither individuals nor society treat all deaths
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as equal,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nor have identical feelings about all deaths.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death of an elderly person who has lived a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> full life is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one thing. Perhaps it is regrettable depending on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conditions, but often people remark "Well, it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was time" or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something similar.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death from natural causes of a middle aged
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or younger
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person is generally treated as a bit more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regrettable. A
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar death of a child even more so.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> An accidental death of those people triggers yet
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regret, and may lead to anger at how such a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing could be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> allowed to happen.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a person rightfully triggers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outrage and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> criminal prosecution.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a child, even more outrage.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The killing of 20 children sitting in school is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> considered
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> truly heinous. At least, by people who are not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avid fans of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the weapon used.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes I understand you and you're not wrong in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> principle but policy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> based
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on anomalies doesn't always work out well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/1927-bombing-remains-americas-deadliest-school-massacre-180963355/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A British-born engineer and colleague of mine in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 1970s used to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mock
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a slogan the NRA promoted in those days. He said
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "And when bombs are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outlawed, only outlaws will have bombs."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if today's pretend soldiers will use the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Second Amendment to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> call for free use and possession of bombs?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are slipping right down into the throes of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> silly ness.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your colleague's mocking comment is pretty silly as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> today, in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> U.S., several states with rather severe hand gun
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> control laws are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finding more and more being smuggled into the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> state. So it is a truism
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that when guns are outlawed only criminals will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have guns.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You might try a google search on "gun+smuggle". I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get 15,600,000
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "hits".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/gun-trafficking-ring-ohio-camden-new-jersey-weapons-arrests/205248/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Out here in the actual world it's the same market
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as dope. Prohibition or hyper regulatory tax schemes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guarantee a higher profit to contraband.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK, you guys have convinced me! Laws never work, so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we should outlaw
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all laws. Got it!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Since this is Usenet, I may have to say that was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sarcasm.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Suggestions welcome.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Canadian laws.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> British laws.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> French laws.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Heck, Swiss laws. Lots of guns, but in "well regulated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> militias." And
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> far, far less gun crime than the U.S.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Very few developed nations emulate the U.S.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Re Canadian laws...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I did a bit of research and Canada has a far lower
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> incident of violent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> crime, i.e. law breaking, then the U.S.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you suppose that this is a matter of better laws or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is it a matter
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of a more law abiding people?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, I suspect the same applies to The British, and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Swiss.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Got it. It has nothing to do with laws or national
>>>>>>>>>>>>> policies! The people
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in (say) Windsor, Ontario are a different species than
>>>>>>>>>>>>> those in (say)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Detroit, Michigan. Their motivations, morals, reflexes
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and behaviors are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> all very, very different. And the people south of that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> border can never,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ever be expected to stop trying to kill one another.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm learning so much here!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Again, please note the sarcasm.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Be as sarcastic as you will but reality shows a very
>>>>>>>>>>>> different
>>>>>>>>>>>> picture:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Crime
>>>>>>>>>>>> Offences / 100,000 population Canada
>>>>>>>>>>>> Offences / 100,000 population U.S.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Rape
>>>>>>>>>>>> Canada 1.69
>>>>>>>>>>>> U.S. 27.31
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Assault
>>>>>>>>>>>> Canada 150.81
>>>>>>>>>>>> U.S. 246.84
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Incarcerated
>>>>>>>>>>>> Canada 104
>>>>>>>>>>>> U.S. 629
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And your explanation for the differences, please? Is it
>>>>>>>>>>> genetics? Are Canadians (like Brits, Irish, French, Dutch
>>>>>>>>>>> etc.) are born with some special law abiding gene that's
>>>>>>>>>>> missing in Americans?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Or is there a chance that a nation's policies and laws
>>>>>>>>>>> actually affect citizens' behaviors?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Laws and policies are dynamic and (more or less) reflect the
>>>>>>>>>> culture. Where there is significant conflict (i.e.,
>>>>>>>>>> Prohibition) the laws and/or policies change, not the culture.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You may well argue that alcohol is an anomaly and you meant
>>>>>>>>>> well understood crimes of long standing such as theft and
>>>>>>>>>> robbery and that those are different. You'd be wrong.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/new-yorks-no-bail-law-leaves-a-trail-of-violence/ar-BB1gmfaq
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/06/us/alvin-bragg-manhattan-district-attorney-crimes-prosecution/index.html
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.foxla.com/news/gascon-launches-diversion-program-for-minors-who-commit-felony-burglary-vehicle-theft-robbery
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-justice/commentary/meet-chesa-boudin-the-rogue-prosecutor-wreaking-havoc-san-francisco
>>>>>>>>> You need only look at the massive increase in the most violent crimes under the Democrats to see that they have played directly into the hands of the criminals.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/10/27/what-we-know-about-the-increase-in-u-s-murders-in-2020/ft_21-010-19_murderrate_3a/
>>>>>>>> Shows murders from about 1968 to 2020. Up with Nixon, down a bit with Ford, then up with Carter, then down and up with Reagan and Bush1, then down down down with Clinton, Bush2, Obama first term, then up Obama second term and UP UP UP at the end of Trump term. Trump had the HIGHEST increase in history for murders during his final year.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes that's true but you miss the state/local differences
>>>>>>> which are critical because Federal murder prosecution is
>>>>>>> extremely rare:
>>>>>>> https://qz.com/162289/217-years-of-homicide-in-new-york/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Typically (shows local differences)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://static01.nyt.com/images/2016/09/08/us/us-murder-rates-1473385452240/us-murder-rates-1473385452240-videoSixteenByNine3000.png?year=2016&h=1687&w=3000&sig=0xa5fc7ca9d975cc8f21d29a25deecab99&tw=1
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Can't find comparative charts through 2021, a year in which
>>>>>>> many cities gave up on law enforcement (or actively promoted
>>>>>>> arson riot and looting) but here's a resource through 2019:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.disastercenter.com/crime/nycrime.htm
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do you really believe those statistics? They are plainly being manipulated by using numbers per 100,000 rather than actual numbers. Exactly how much are they rounding off and in which direction? It is all BS if you ask me.
>>>>>>
>>>>> OK.
>>>>> Time is finite and I spent as much of it as I thought
>>>>> appropriate on a web search. Find better data and link it
>>>>> when you find it, THX.
>>>> I don't quite understand the problem here Andrew. The Democrats simply hide the numbers of deaths by putting them in a context in which they don't look "that bad".
>>>>
>>>> For instance, there were almost three times as many people murdered in New York City in 2021 than have fallen so far in the Ukraine!
>>>
>>> Russia attacked Ukraine on Wednesday last week. So Russia has been attacking Ukraine for 5 days now. I saw an article on Yahoo that said 352 dead Ukrainians so far. About 70 per day killed by Russians. New York City had 365 days during 2021. 365 x 70 = 25,500. I'm not too surprised New York City had more people murdered in 2021 than have died in Ukraine so far. Heck, if they only murdered one person per day in New York City in 2021, they would still outnumber the amount of Ukrainians killed by Russia. But Tommy boy is claiming three times as many murdered in New York City than in Ukraine. I have 352 murdered in Ukraine by Russia. So three times that is about 1056. I used Google to look up the murders in New York City in 2021. 485 is the total. So New York City in all of 2021 had 38% more murders than the number of people killed in Ukraine by Russia. Tommy, did you get your "three times" number by dividing 1 by 38% and getting 2.63 and then rounded up to 3?
>>>
>>> https://nypost.com/2022/01/01/nyc-recorded-485-murders-in-2021/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> There were MORE Americans murdered in Chicago over the length of the Iraq War than there were in Iraq! If you allow these morons to continue to pay games with statistics no one knows or can understand anything. What is going on in Democrat led cities and states is nothing less than a war.
>>>>
>>>> Of course we could be stupid like Frank and blame it on guns. Or we can face the facts that the Democrats make condition of hatred in groups in order to foment support simply to obtain control of the masses. Don't you think we should stop playing their games?
>> Well, how about some pleasant numbers instead?
>>
>> The 'inadequate' Ukraine military with large numbers of
>> 'unskilled' citizenry have dispatched a few thousand Russian
>> conscripts and taken prisoners, wrecked hundreds of vehicles
>> (including with molotovs) and shown great courage along with
>> their resourcefulness.
>> --
>> Andrew Muzi
>> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>
> "dispatched a few thousand Russian conscripts"? I would have to know where you are getting your information. I did see an article on Yahoo about Ukraine taking some prisoners. But killing thousands of Russian soldiers? Sources please.
>
> Now I realize my 352 dead Ukrainians Yahoo article may not be accurate. It very well could be 3000 dead Ukrainians. Or more. But I am having a hard time believing more Russian soldiers are dead than Ukrainians. Usually the force with all the guns and artillery kill more of the other side than they get killed. That is usually how wars work out. In Vietnam the USA had all the guns and bombs and killed far more North Vietnamese than US soldiers killed.
>
> "wrecked hundreds of vehicles"? Source. I am sure some Russian vehicles have been destroyed. How many, I do not know.
>
> But unfortunately, Russia has long range missiles. And have sent those missiles into airports and fuel storage facilities and cities. And they sent the military to take over Chernobyl. For some reason. And they have tanks, armored vehicles. And more troops than Ukraine.
>

On 2/28/2022 12:26 AM, John B. wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 22:24:10 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> On 2/27/2022 9:39 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 21:16:32 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2/27/2022 8:20 PM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 4:19:21 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 11:02:52 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2/27/2022 11:47 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 9:17:29 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2/27/2022 2:28 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 3:32:24 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 9:05:17 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/26/2022 9:57 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/26/2022 1:47 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 11:32:25 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 6:06 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 12:02:17 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 11:19 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 10:49 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 5:49:51 PM UTC-8,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 6:44 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 12:27:31 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 9:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 7:57 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 8:31 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, of course I was ridiculing Franks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assertion, at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> least as I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understood him, that somehow one would be more,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or less,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stricken by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grief depending on the cause of death.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You're being totally unrealistic, in a foolish
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attempt to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pursue a nonsense argument.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Neither individuals nor society treat all deaths
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as equal,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nor have identical feelings about all deaths.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death of an elderly person who has lived a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> full life is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one thing. Perhaps it is regrettable depending on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conditions, but often people remark "Well, it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was time" or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something similar.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death from natural causes of a middle aged
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or younger
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person is generally treated as a bit more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regrettable. A
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar death of a child even more so.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> An accidental death of those people triggers yet
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regret, and may lead to anger at how such a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing could be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> allowed to happen.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a person rightfully triggers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outrage and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> criminal prosecution.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a child, even more outrage.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The killing of 20 children sitting in school is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> considered
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> truly heinous. At least, by people who are not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avid fans of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the weapon used.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes I understand you and you're not wrong in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> principle but policy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> based
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on anomalies doesn't always work out well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/1927-bombing-remains-americas-deadliest-school-massacre-180963355/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A British-born engineer and colleague of mine in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 1970s used to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mock
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a slogan the NRA promoted in those days. He said
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "And when bombs are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outlawed, only outlaws will have bombs."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if today's pretend soldiers will use the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Second Amendment to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> call for free use and possession of bombs?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are slipping right down into the throes of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> silly ness.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your colleague's mocking comment is pretty silly as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> today, in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> U.S., several states with rather severe hand gun
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> control laws are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finding more and more being smuggled into the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> state. So it is a truism
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that when guns are outlawed only criminals will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have guns.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You might try a google search on "gun+smuggle". I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get 15,600,000
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "hits".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/gun-trafficking-ring-ohio-camden-new-jersey-weapons-arrests/205248/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Out here in the actual world it's the same market
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as dope. Prohibition or hyper regulatory tax schemes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guarantee a higher profit to contraband.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK, you guys have convinced me! Laws never work, so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we should outlaw
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all laws. Got it!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Since this is Usenet, I may have to say that was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sarcasm.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Suggestions welcome.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Canadian laws.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> British laws.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> French laws.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Heck, Swiss laws. Lots of guns, but in "well regulated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> militias." And
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> far, far less gun crime than the U.S.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Very few developed nations emulate the U.S.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Re Canadian laws...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I did a bit of research and Canada has a far lower
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> incident of violent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> crime, i.e. law breaking, then the U.S.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you suppose that this is a matter of better laws or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is it a matter
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of a more law abiding people?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, I suspect the same applies to The British, and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Swiss.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Got it. It has nothing to do with laws or national
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> policies! The people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in (say) Windsor, Ontario are a different species than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those in (say)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Detroit, Michigan. Their motivations, morals, reflexes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and behaviors are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all very, very different. And the people south of that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> border can never,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ever be expected to stop trying to kill one another.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm learning so much here!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Again, please note the sarcasm.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Be as sarcastic as you will but reality shows a very
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> different
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> picture:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Crime
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Offences / 100,000 population Canada
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Offences / 100,000 population U.S.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rape
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Canada 1.69
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> U.S. 27.31
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Assault
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Canada 150.81
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> U.S. 246.84
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Incarcerated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Canada 104
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> U.S. 629
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> And your explanation for the differences, please? Is it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> genetics? Are Canadians (like Brits, Irish, French, Dutch
>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc.) are born with some special law abiding gene that's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> missing in Americans?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Or is there a chance that a nation's policies and laws
>>>>>>>>>>>>> actually affect citizens' behaviors?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Laws and policies are dynamic and (more or less) reflect the
>>>>>>>>>>>> culture. Where there is significant conflict (i.e.,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Prohibition) the laws and/or policies change, not the culture.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You may well argue that alcohol is an anomaly and you meant
>>>>>>>>>>>> well understood crimes of long standing such as theft and
>>>>>>>>>>>> robbery and that those are different. You'd be wrong.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/new-yorks-no-bail-law-leaves-a-trail-of-violence/ar-BB1gmfaq
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/06/us/alvin-bragg-manhattan-district-attorney-crimes-prosecution/index.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.foxla.com/news/gascon-launches-diversion-program-for-minors-who-commit-felony-burglary-vehicle-theft-robbery
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-justice/commentary/meet-chesa-boudin-the-rogue-prosecutor-wreaking-havoc-san-francisco
>>>>>>>>>>> You need only look at the massive increase in the most violent crimes under the Democrats to see that they have played directly into the hands of the criminals.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/10/27/what-we-know-about-the-increase-in-u-s-murders-in-2020/ft_21-010-19_murderrate_3a/
>>>>>>>>>> Shows murders from about 1968 to 2020. Up with Nixon, down a bit with Ford, then up with Carter, then down and up with Reagan and Bush1, then down down down with Clinton, Bush2, Obama first term, then up Obama second term and UP UP UP at the end of Trump term. Trump had the HIGHEST increase in history for murders during his final year.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes that's true but you miss the state/local differences
>>>>>>>>> which are critical because Federal murder prosecution is
>>>>>>>>> extremely rare:
>>>>>>>>> https://qz.com/162289/217-years-of-homicide-in-new-york/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Typically (shows local differences)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://static01.nyt.com/images/2016/09/08/us/us-murder-rates-1473385452240/us-murder-rates-1473385452240-videoSixteenByNine3000.png?year=2016&h=1687&w=3000&sig=0xa5fc7ca9d975cc8f21d29a25deecab99&tw=1
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Can't find comparative charts through 2021, a year in which
>>>>>>>>> many cities gave up on law enforcement (or actively promoted
>>>>>>>>> arson riot and looting) but here's a resource through 2019:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.disastercenter.com/crime/nycrime.htm
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Do you really believe those statistics? They are plainly being manipulated by using numbers per 100,000 rather than actual numbers. Exactly how much are they rounding off and in which direction? It is all BS if you ask me.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> OK.
>>>>>>> Time is finite and I spent as much of it as I thought
>>>>>>> appropriate on a web search. Find better data and link it
>>>>>>> when you find it, THX.
>>>>>> I don't quite understand the problem here Andrew. The Democrats simply hide the numbers of deaths by putting them in a context in which they don't look "that bad".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For instance, there were almost three times as many people murdered in New York City in 2021 than have fallen so far in the Ukraine!
>>>>>
>>>>> Russia attacked Ukraine on Wednesday last week. So Russia has been attacking Ukraine for 5 days now. I saw an article on Yahoo that said 352 dead Ukrainians so far. About 70 per day killed by Russians. New York City had 365 days during 2021. 365 x 70 = 25,500. I'm not too surprised New York City had more people murdered in 2021 than have died in Ukraine so far. Heck, if they only murdered one person per day in New York City in 2021, they would still outnumber the amount of Ukrainians killed by Russia. But Tommy boy is claiming three times as many murdered in New York City than in Ukraine. I have 352 murdered in Ukraine by Russia. So three times that is about 1056. I used Google to look up the murders in New York City in 2021. 485 is the total. So New York City in all of 2021 had 38% more murders than the number of people killed in Ukraine by Russia. Tommy, did you get your "three times" number by dividing 1 by 38% and getting 2.63 and then rounded up to 3?
>>>>>
>>>>> https://nypost.com/2022/01/01/nyc-recorded-485-murders-in-2021/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> There were MORE Americans murdered in Chicago over the length of the Iraq War than there were in Iraq! If you allow these morons to continue to pay games with statistics no one knows or can understand anything. What is going on in Democrat led cities and states is nothing less than a war.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course we could be stupid like Frank and blame it on guns. Or we can face the facts that the Democrats make condition of hatred in groups in order to foment support simply to obtain control of the masses. Don't you think we should stop playing their games?
>>>>
>>>> Well, how about some pleasant numbers instead?
>>>>
>>>> The 'inadequate' Ukraine military with large numbers of
>>>> 'unskilled' citizenry have dispatched a few thousand Russian
>>>> conscripts and taken prisoners, wrecked hundreds of vehicles
>>>> (including with molotovs) and shown great courage along with
>>>> their resourcefulness.
>>>
>>> Is that from the current escapade?
>>>
>>> I tried looking up "Deaths in Ukraine War" and found that there has
>>> been considerable unrest in the Ukraine since 2014, at least, with
>>> quite a bit of pro Russian sentiment and anti Russian sentiment
>>> occurring.
>>>
>>> Apparently the current situation is really not as isolated an event
>>> as the news, or at least the news here, might have it.
>>>
>>> Which, of course, doesn't justify anything but it is interesting to
>>> see that the current "war" has an 8 year history of discord.
>>>
>>
>> I meant this week.
>>
>> US sources are avoiding this. I spent an hour plus today
>> looking at weekend combat video on Le Monde, ITV, Sky, some
>> Indian and Japanese sources, news.com.au, RFE etc.
>>
>> As an aside, satellites make armchair generalship much more
>> interesting. My opinion at this point is that the plan
>> generally was either cockamamie or ill considered by the
>> logistics staff and hence sandbagged. There are too many
>> attack points for the available resources and support has
>> been at an all-time dysfunctional level, including armored
>> columns stranded for lack of diesel. One thinks of LBJ's
>> micromanaging sorties in Vietnam, it's that bad.
>
> Don't blame LBJ for all the going's on in Vietnam. The CIA and the
> various branches of the Military were perfectly capable of screwing
> things up all on their own.
>
> As for the Russians, I'm not following things that closely but I did
> read one article that discussed "cost effectiveness", the term used
> more as a matter of cause and effect rather then cold cash, and talked
> about the fact that the Russians are going to win, there is no doubt
> about that, but they want to incorporate the Ukraine into the Russian
> Empire and thus want minimal hard feelings among the population.
>
> Maybe so.
>

On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 7:47:35 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:

>
> I'm admittedly guessing but I would think that a large portion of the
> Ukrainian population would/will be quite happy to rejoin Russia.

If you guessing that you don't know shit about history. They piss on the Russians.

Lou

On 2/28/2022 8:19 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 7:47:35 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
>
>
>>
>> I'm admittedly guessing but I would think that a large portion of the
>> Ukrainian population would/will be quite happy to rejoin Russia.
>
> If you guessing that you don't know shit about history. They piss on the Russians.
>
> Lou
>
+1

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 6:20:00 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 7:47:35 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
>
>
> >
> > I'm admittedly guessing but I would think that a large portion of the
> > Ukrainian population would/will be quite happy to rejoin Russia.
> If you guessing that you don't know shit about history. They piss on the Russians.

In every case where the installed puppet Russian governments in the Ukraine could have moved towards communism they instead moved more to freedom. The Ukrainians will continue to oppose the Russians. Whether that takes the form of open rebellion or underground resistance remains to be seen. But the Ukraine WILL BE FREE in the end.

Putin may find support in Russia for awhile but that won't last long. They simply will have an economic collapse and Russia was JUST being able to see the positive results of private business.

On 2/28/2022 1:00 AM, John B. wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 19:18:54 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 7:10:27 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 18:54:45 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
>>> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 2:52:57 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 10:41:47 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The person who INTRODUCED the topic of rapes says I was the one who
>>>>>> changed the subject?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wow.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Nice try (:-) But No, I didn't introduce the topic of Rape, per se.
>>>>
>>>> To prove that's not bullshit, John, please cite where someone other than you
>>>> mentioned rape data in this thread. Because I must have missed that.
>>>>
>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>> Ah Frank. A bit of a problem with languages? "per se" - " a Latin
>>> phrase literally meaning “by itself.”
>>>
>>> Perhaps a little problem in comprehension? Or a deliberate attempt to
>>> mask the fact that Canada, in general, has far less violent crime then
>>> the U.S.?
>>
>> You mean you want a break because you introduced the topic of rape at the
>> same time you used other words?
>>
>> Wow.
>>
>> - Frank Krygowski
>
> I really don't care. If you want to fantasize that in some manner
> you've won the argument then go ahead. Perhaps your ego requires
> stroking. "Self Gratification"?
>
> I simply posted facts which you seem unable to accept. If you can't
> accept reality then just carry on with your own dementia. After all
> that's what Tom does.

Your descent into insults shows the weakness of your arguments.

Try getting back on track. You brought up that the U.S. is worse than
Canada regarding rape and some other crimes. You've never posited a
reason for the differences.

Do you have a reason to propose? Is it just that Americans are
inherently evil in ways that Canadians are not? Why would that be?

--
- Frank Krygowski

with <9apo1hpt8s0i4kjh3seqrkcmla7b8f5rrv@4ax.com> John B wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 22:24:10 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> On 2/27/2022 9:39 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 21:16:32 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>> On 2/27/2022 8:20 PM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 4:19:21 PM UTC-6,
>>>>> cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 11:02:52 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2/27/2022 11:47 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 9:17:29 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2/27/2022 2:28 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 3:32:24 PM UTC-6,
>>>>>>>>>> cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 9:05:17 AM UTC-8, AMuzi
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/26/2022 9:57 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/26/2022 1:47 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 11:32:25 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 6:06 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 12:02:17 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 11:19 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 10:49 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 5:49:51 PM UTC-8,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 6:44 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 12:27:31 -0500, Frank
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 9:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 7:57 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 8:31 PM, John B. wrote:

*SKIP*
>>>>> Russia attacked Ukraine on Wednesday last week. So Russia has
>>>>> been attacking Ukraine for 5 days now. I saw an article on Yahoo
*SKIP*
>>>> The 'inadequate' Ukraine military with large numbers of 'unskilled'
>>>> citizenry have dispatched a few thousand Russian conscripts and
>>>> taken prisoners, wrecked hundreds of vehicles (including with
>>>> molotovs) and shown great courage along with their resourcefulness.
>>> Is that from the current escapade?
*SKIP*
>> I meant this week.
*SKIP*
> As for the Russians, I'm not following things that closely but I did
> read one article that discussed "cost effectiveness", the term used
> more as a matter of cause and effect rather then cold cash, and talked
> about the fact that the Russians are going to win, there is no doubt
> about that, but they want to incorporate the Ukraine into the Russian
> Empire and thus want minimal hard feelings among the population.
> Maybe so.

Your sources are seriously inadequate or worse. But these are your
beliefs now and nothing can be done about it.

--
Torvalds' goal for Linux is very simple: World Domination
Stallman's goal for GNU is even simpler: Freedom

On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 06:19:56 -0800 (PST), Lou Holtman
<lou.holtman@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 7:47:35 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
>
>
>>
>> I'm admittedly guessing but I would think that a large portion of the
>> Ukrainian population would/will be quite happy to rejoin Russia.
>
>If you guessing that you don't know shit about history. They piss on the Russians.
>
>Lou

Interesting... but I read that the Donetsk and Luhansk regions are
largely Russian speaking and Russian orientated, or inclined toward
Russia. And the Crimea, I believe, is largely peopled by ethnic
Russians.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 2/28/2022 4:52 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 06:19:56 -0800 (PST), Lou Holtman
> <lou.holtman@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 7:47:35 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I'm admittedly guessing but I would think that a large portion of the
>>> Ukrainian population would/will be quite happy to rejoin Russia.
>>
>> If you guessing that you don't know shit about history. They piss on the Russians.
>>
>> Lou
>
> Interesting... but I read that the Donetsk and Luhansk regions are
> largely Russian speaking and Russian orientated, or inclined toward
> Russia. And the Crimea, I believe, is largely peopled by ethnic
> Russians.
>

That was the theory (or propaganda) in 2014 when Mr Obama
blessed the enslavement of Donbass. The region is
depopulated and impoverished today.

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/02/02/i-havent-forgotten-that-ukraine-is-my-homeland-donbas-natives-in-russia-dread-new-war-a76234

Crimea? I don't know enough to say.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 11:35:06 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 2/28/2022 1:00 AM, John B. wrote:
>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 19:18:54 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 7:10:27 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 18:54:45 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
>>>> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 2:52:57 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 10:41:47 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The person who INTRODUCED the topic of rapes says I was the one who
>>>>>>> changed the subject?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wow.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nice try (:-) But No, I didn't introduce the topic of Rape, per se.
>>>>>
>>>>> To prove that's not bullshit, John, please cite where someone other than you
>>>>> mentioned rape data in this thread. Because I must have missed that.
>>>>>
>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>> Ah Frank. A bit of a problem with languages? "per se" - " a Latin
>>>> phrase literally meaning “by itself.”
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps a little problem in comprehension? Or a deliberate attempt to
>>>> mask the fact that Canada, in general, has far less violent crime then
>>>> the U.S.?
>>>
>>> You mean you want a break because you introduced the topic of rape at the
>>> same time you used other words?
>>>
>>> Wow.
>>>
>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>
>> I really don't care. If you want to fantasize that in some manner
>> you've won the argument then go ahead. Perhaps your ego requires
>> stroking. "Self Gratification"?
>>
>> I simply posted facts which you seem unable to accept. If you can't
>> accept reality then just carry on with your own dementia. After all
>> that's what Tom does.
>
>Your descent into insults shows the weakness of your arguments.
>
>Try getting back on track. You brought up that the U.S. is worse than
>Canada regarding rape and some other crimes. You've never posited a
>reason for the differences.
>
>Do you have a reason to propose? Is it just that Americans are
>inherently evil in ways that Canadians are not? Why would that be?

Hang in there Frank and maybe you will win.

But yes, I did point out that Canada is much more law abiding then the
U.S. in reply to your arguments that Canada has far fewer gun crimes
then the U.S. Of course they do, that are more law abiding.

And now, just as Tommy does you are changing the topic to argue "why
is Canada more law abiding the U.S."

But lets be honest Frank, you have frequently cited Canada as evidence
that strict, or what you view as strict, gun laws will reduce gun
crimes in the U.S. and when I provide evidence that the Canadians are
far more law abiding then the U.S. you then go slip sliding away and
try to change the subject to WHY the Canadians are more law abiding.

So as I said in a previous post, if you want to slap yourself on the
back and complement yourself that you have, yet again, overcome the
opposition and won the argument, go right ahead. It makes no
difference to me as while I post facts you twist and turn and post
suppositions.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 17:04:05 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 2/28/2022 4:52 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 06:19:56 -0800 (PST), Lou Holtman
>> <lou.holtman@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 7:47:35 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm admittedly guessing but I would think that a large portion of the
>>>> Ukrainian population would/will be quite happy to rejoin Russia.
>>>
>>> If you guessing that you don't know shit about history. They piss on the Russians.
>>>
>>> Lou
>>
>> Interesting... but I read that the Donetsk and Luhansk regions are
>> largely Russian speaking and Russian orientated, or inclined toward
>> Russia. And the Crimea, I believe, is largely peopled by ethnic
>> Russians.
>>
>
>That was the theory (or propaganda) in 2014 when Mr Obama
>blessed the enslavement of Donbass. The region is
>depopulated and impoverished today.
>
>https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/02/02/i-havent-forgotten-that-ukraine-is-my-homeland-donbas-natives-in-russia-dread-new-war-a76234
>
>Crimea? I don't know enough to say.

On the other hand I read something a bit different
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donbas

It appears from what I read that the Donbas region is not happy to be
a part of the Ukraine, nor Russia for that matter, although Russian
seems to be the language of something like 75% of the inhabitants and
ethnic Russians seem to make up the bulk of the inhabitants in the
larger metropolitan areas while ethnic Ukrainians seem largely located
in the countryside.

Industry seems to be largely coal mining and steel making and
apparently in 2017 the Ukrainian government issued a decree forbidding
the movement of goods to and from territory controlled by the
self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic and Luhansk People's
Republic meaning that since then Ukraine does not buy coal from the
Donets Coal Basin.

Or in other words trying to force the region to bow down to the
Ukrainians (:-)

I would suggest that, perhaps, the situation may be just a bit more
complex then that publicized by the News.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 16:05:53 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Tue, 01 Mar 2022 05:52:24 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>>Interesting... but I read that the Donetsk and Luhansk regions are
>>largely Russian speaking and Russian orientated, or inclined toward
>>Russia. And the Crimea, I believe, is largely peopled by ethnic
>>Russians.
>
>This might help:
>"Languages of Ukraine"
><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Ukraine>
><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Ukraine#/media/File:UkraineNativeLanguagesCensus2001detailed-en.png>
>
>From the 2001 census:
>Language Number of speakers Percent of total
>Ukrainian 32,577,468 67.53%
>Russian 14,273,670 29.59%
>
>The 2009 data paints a different picture:
><https://reconsideringrussia.org/2014/03/02/what-is-ukraine/ukraine-language-map/>
>Surzhyk is a mixed language:
><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surzhyk>
>which is considered either Ukrainian or Russian depending on the
>political agenda of the source.

and from
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donbas
"Russian is the main language of 74.9% of residents in Donetsk Oblast
and 68.8% in Luhansk Oblast.[59] The proportion of native
Russian-speakers is higher than ethnic Russians because some ethnic
Ukrainians and other nationalities also indicate Russian as their
mother tongue."
[59] - "http://2001.ukrcensus.gov.ua/eng/results/general/language/"
http://2001.ukrcensus.gov.ua/eng/regions/reg_luhan/
http://2001.ukrcensus.gov.ua/eng/regions/reg_don/
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 12:47:35 AM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 22:13:45 -0800 (PST), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 9:39:36 PM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
> >> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 21:16:32 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On 2/27/2022 8:20 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> >> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 4:19:21 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> >>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 11:02:52 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >> >>>> On 2/27/2022 11:47 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> >>>>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 9:17:29 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >> >>>>>> On 2/27/2022 2:28 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> >>>>>>> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 3:32:24 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 9:05:17 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>> On 2/26/2022 9:57 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>>> On 2/26/2022 1:47 AM, John B. wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 11:32:25 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 6:06 PM, John B. wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 12:02:17 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 11:19 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 10:49 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 5:49:51 PM UTC-8,
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AMuzi wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 6:44 PM, John B. wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 12:27:31 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 9:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 7:57 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 8:31 PM, John B. wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, of course I was ridiculing Franks
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assertion, at
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> least as I
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understood him, that somehow one would be more,
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or less,
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stricken by
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grief depending on the cause of death.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You're being totally unrealistic, in a foolish
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attempt to
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pursue a nonsense argument.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Neither individuals nor society treat all deaths
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as equal,
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nor have identical feelings about all deaths.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death of an elderly person who has lived a
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> full life is
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one thing. Perhaps it is regrettable depending on
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conditions, but often people remark "Well, it
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was time" or
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something similar.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death from natural causes of a middle aged
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or younger
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person is generally treated as a bit more
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regrettable. A
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar death of a child even more so.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> An accidental death of those people triggers yet
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regret, and may lead to anger at how such a
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing could be
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> allowed to happen.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a person rightfully triggers
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outrage and
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> criminal prosecution.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a child, even more outrage.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The killing of 20 children sitting in school is
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> considered
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> truly heinous. At least, by people who are not
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avid fans of
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the weapon used.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes I understand you and you're not wrong in
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> principle but policy
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> based
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on anomalies doesn't always work out well.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/1927-bombing-remains-americas-deadliest-school-massacre-180963355/
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A British-born engineer and colleague of mine in
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 1970s used to
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mock
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a slogan the NRA promoted in those days. He said
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "And when bombs are
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outlawed, only outlaws will have bombs."
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if today's pretend soldiers will use the
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Second Amendment to
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> call for free use and possession of bombs?
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are slipping right down into the throes of
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> silly ness.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your colleague's mocking comment is pretty silly as
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> today, in the
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> U.S., several states with rather severe hand gun
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> control laws are
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finding more and more being smuggled into the
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> state. So it is a truism
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that when guns are outlawed only criminals will
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have guns.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You might try a google search on "gun+smuggle". I
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get 15,600,000
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "hits".
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/gun-trafficking-ring-ohio-camden-new-jersey-weapons-arrests/205248/
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Out here in the actual world it's the same market
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as dope. Prohibition or hyper regulatory tax schemes
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guarantee a higher profit to contraband.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK, you guys have convinced me! Laws never work, so
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we should outlaw
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all laws. Got it!
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Since this is Usenet, I may have to say that was
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sarcasm.)
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Suggestions welcome.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK:
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Canadian laws.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> British laws.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> French laws.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Heck, Swiss laws. Lots of guns, but in "well regulated
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> militias." And
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> far, far less gun crime than the U.S.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Very few developed nations emulate the U.S.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Re Canadian laws...
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I did a bit of research and Canada has a far lower
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> incident of violent
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> crime, i.e. law breaking, then the U.S.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you suppose that this is a matter of better laws or
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> is it a matter
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> of a more law abiding people?
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> And, I suspect the same applies to The British, and the
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Swiss.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Got it. It has nothing to do with laws or national
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> policies! The people
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> in (say) Windsor, Ontario are a different species than
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> those in (say)
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Detroit, Michigan. Their motivations, morals, reflexes
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> and behaviors are
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> all very, very different. And the people south of that
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> border can never,
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> ever be expected to stop trying to kill one another.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm learning so much here!
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> (Again, please note the sarcasm.)
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Be as sarcastic as you will but reality shows a very
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> different
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> picture:
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Crime
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Offences / 100,000 population Canada
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Offences / 100,000 population U.S.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Rape
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Canada 1.69
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> U.S. 27.31
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Assault
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Canada 150.81
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> U.S. 246.84
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Incarcerated
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Canada 104
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> U.S. 629
> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>> And your explanation for the differences, please? Is it
> >> >>>>>>>>>> genetics? Are Canadians (like Brits, Irish, French, Dutch
> >> >>>>>>>>>> etc.) are born with some special law abiding gene that's
> >> >>>>>>>>>> missing in Americans?
> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>> Or is there a chance that a nation's policies and laws
> >> >>>>>>>>>> actually affect citizens' behaviors?
> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> Laws and policies are dynamic and (more or less) reflect the
> >> >>>>>>>>> culture. Where there is significant conflict (i.e.,
> >> >>>>>>>>> Prohibition) the laws and/or policies change, not the culture.
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> You may well argue that alcohol is an anomaly and you meant
> >> >>>>>>>>> well understood crimes of long standing such as theft and
> >> >>>>>>>>> robbery and that those are different. You'd be wrong.
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/new-yorks-no-bail-law-leaves-a-trail-of-violence/ar-BB1gmfaq
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/06/us/alvin-bragg-manhattan-district-attorney-crimes-prosecution/index.html
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> https://www.foxla.com/news/gascon-launches-diversion-program-for-minors-who-commit-felony-burglary-vehicle-theft-robbery
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-justice/commentary/meet-chesa-boudin-the-rogue-prosecutor-wreaking-havoc-san-francisco
> >> >>>>>>>> You need only look at the massive increase in the most violent crimes under the Democrats to see that they have played directly into the hands of the criminals.
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/10/27/what-we-know-about-the-increase-in-u-s-murders-in-2020/ft_21-010-19_murderrate_3a/
> >> >>>>>>> Shows murders from about 1968 to 2020. Up with Nixon, down a bit with Ford, then up with Carter, then down and up with Reagan and Bush1, then down down down with Clinton, Bush2, Obama first term, then up Obama second term and UP UP UP at the end of Trump term. Trump had the HIGHEST increase in history for murders during his final year.
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> Yes that's true but you miss the state/local differences
> >> >>>>>> which are critical because Federal murder prosecution is
> >> >>>>>> extremely rare:
> >> >>>>>> https://qz.com/162289/217-years-of-homicide-in-new-york/
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> Typically (shows local differences)
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> https://static01.nyt.com/images/2016/09/08/us/us-murder-rates-1473385452240/us-murder-rates-1473385452240-videoSixteenByNine3000.png?year=2016&h=1687&w=3000&sig=0xa5fc7ca9d975cc8f21d29a25deecab99&tw=1
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> Can't find comparative charts through 2021, a year in which
> >> >>>>>> many cities gave up on law enforcement (or actively promoted
> >> >>>>>> arson riot and looting) but here's a resource through 2019:
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> https://www.disastercenter.com/crime/nycrime.htm
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Do you really believe those statistics? They are plainly being manipulated by using numbers per 100,000 rather than actual numbers. Exactly how much are they rounding off and in which direction? It is all BS if you ask me.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>> OK.
> >> >>>> Time is finite and I spent as much of it as I thought
> >> >>>> appropriate on a web search. Find better data and link it
> >> >>>> when you find it, THX.
> >> >>> I don't quite understand the problem here Andrew. The Democrats simply hide the numbers of deaths by putting them in a context in which they don't look "that bad".
> >> >>>
> >> >>> For instance, there were almost three times as many people murdered in New York City in 2021 than have fallen so far in the Ukraine!
> >> >>
> >> >> Russia attacked Ukraine on Wednesday last week. So Russia has been attacking Ukraine for 5 days now. I saw an article on Yahoo that said 352 dead Ukrainians so far. About 70 per day killed by Russians. New York City had 365 days during 2021. 365 x 70 = 25,500. I'm not too surprised New York City had more people murdered in 2021 than have died in Ukraine so far. Heck, if they only murdered one person per day in New York City in 2021, they would still outnumber the amount of Ukrainians killed by Russia. But Tommy boy is claiming three times as many murdered in New York City than in Ukraine. I have 352 murdered in Ukraine by Russia. So three times that is about 1056. I used Google to look up the murders in New York City in 2021. 485 is the total. So New York City in all of 2021 had 38% more murders than the number of people killed in Ukraine by Russia. Tommy, did you get your "three times" number by dividing 1 by 38% and getting 2.63 and then rounded up to 3?
> >> >>
> >> >> https://nypost.com/2022/01/01/nyc-recorded-485-murders-in-2021/
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>> There were MORE Americans murdered in Chicago over the length of the Iraq War than there were in Iraq! If you allow these morons to continue to pay games with statistics no one knows or can understand anything. What is going on in Democrat led cities and states is nothing less than a war.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Of course we could be stupid like Frank and blame it on guns. Or we can face the facts that the Democrats make condition of hatred in groups in order to foment support simply to obtain control of the masses. Don't you think we should stop playing their games?
> >> >
> >> >Well, how about some pleasant numbers instead?
> >> >
> >> >The 'inadequate' Ukraine military with large numbers of
> >> >'unskilled' citizenry have dispatched a few thousand Russian
> >> >conscripts and taken prisoners, wrecked hundreds of vehicles
> >> >(including with molotovs) and shown great courage along with
> >> >their resourcefulness.
> >> Is that from the current escapade?
> >>
> >> I tried looking up "Deaths in Ukraine War" and found that there has
> >> been considerable unrest in the Ukraine since 2014, at least, with
> >> quite a bit of pro Russian sentiment and anti Russian sentiment
> >> occurring.
> >>
> >> Apparently the current situation is really not as isolated an event
> >> as the news, or at least the news here, might have it.
> >>
> >> Which, of course, doesn't justify anything but it is interesting to
> >> see that the current "war" has an 8 year history of discord.
> >> --
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> John B.
> >
> >As Andy replied, this week. Since last Wednesday or Thursday I believe. Crimea peninsula was taken over by Russia in 2014. I forget how much battle occurred then. And the two areas of Ukraine in the SE corner in which Putin said now belong to Russia last week, there has been fighting between pro Russia and pro Ukraine forces there for several years now. But I don't believe they have been shooting and bombing non stop every day for several years now. I think its more of a shooting breaks out every now and then situation. Not non stop shooting. I think the current invasion is non stop shooting and bombing going on. All over Ukraine. Especially Kyiv Ukraine where 3 million people live.
> The article I read talked about 2200 fatalities since 2014. And there
> are, apparently, a substantial number of people living in the Ukraine
> who would prefer to "be Russians".

On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 18:32:56 -0800 (PST), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
<ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 12:47:35 AM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 22:13:45 -0800 (PST), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 9:39:36 PM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
>> >> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 21:16:32 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On 2/27/2022 8:20 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> >> >> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 4:19:21 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >> >>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 11:02:52 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> >> >>>> On 2/27/2022 11:47 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >> >>>>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 9:17:29 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> >> >>>>>> On 2/27/2022 2:28 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 3:32:24 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 9:05:17 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>> On 2/26/2022 9:57 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> On 2/26/2022 1:47 AM, John B. wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 11:32:25 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 6:06 PM, John B. wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 12:02:17 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 11:19 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 10:49 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 5:49:51 PM UTC-8,
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AMuzi wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 6:44 PM, John B. wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 12:27:31 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 9:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 7:57 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 8:31 PM, John B. wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, of course I was ridiculing Franks
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assertion, at
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> least as I
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understood him, that somehow one would be more,
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or less,
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stricken by
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grief depending on the cause of death.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You're being totally unrealistic, in a foolish
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attempt to
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pursue a nonsense argument.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Neither individuals nor society treat all deaths
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as equal,
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nor have identical feelings about all deaths.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death of an elderly person who has lived a
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> full life is
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one thing. Perhaps it is regrettable depending on
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conditions, but often people remark "Well, it
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was time" or
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something similar.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death from natural causes of a middle aged
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or younger
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person is generally treated as a bit more
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regrettable. A
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar death of a child even more so.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> An accidental death of those people triggers yet
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regret, and may lead to anger at how such a
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing could be
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> allowed to happen.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a person rightfully triggers
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outrage and
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> criminal prosecution.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a child, even more outrage.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The killing of 20 children sitting in school is
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> considered
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> truly heinous. At least, by people who are not
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avid fans of
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the weapon used.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes I understand you and you're not wrong in
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> principle but policy
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> based
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on anomalies doesn't always work out well.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/1927-bombing-remains-americas-deadliest-school-massacre-180963355/
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A British-born engineer and colleague of mine in
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 1970s used to
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mock
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a slogan the NRA promoted in those days. He said
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "And when bombs are
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outlawed, only outlaws will have bombs."
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if today's pretend soldiers will use the
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Second Amendment to
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> call for free use and possession of bombs?
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are slipping right down into the throes of
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> silly ness.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your colleague's mocking comment is pretty silly as
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> today, in the
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> U.S., several states with rather severe hand gun
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> control laws are
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finding more and more being smuggled into the
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> state. So it is a truism
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that when guns are outlawed only criminals will
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have guns.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You might try a google search on "gun+smuggle". I
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get 15,600,000
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "hits".
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/gun-trafficking-ring-ohio-camden-new-jersey-weapons-arrests/205248/
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Out here in the actual world it's the same market
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as dope. Prohibition or hyper regulatory tax schemes
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guarantee a higher profit to contraband.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK, you guys have convinced me! Laws never work, so
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we should outlaw
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all laws. Got it!
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Since this is Usenet, I may have to say that was
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sarcasm.)
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Suggestions welcome.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Canadian laws.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> British laws.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> French laws.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Heck, Swiss laws. Lots of guns, but in "well regulated
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> militias." And
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> far, far less gun crime than the U.S.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Very few developed nations emulate the U.S.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Re Canadian laws...
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I did a bit of research and Canada has a far lower
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> incident of violent
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> crime, i.e. law breaking, then the U.S.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you suppose that this is a matter of better laws or
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> is it a matter
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> of a more law abiding people?
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> And, I suspect the same applies to The British, and the
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Swiss.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Got it. It has nothing to do with laws or national
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> policies! The people
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> in (say) Windsor, Ontario are a different species than
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> those in (say)
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Detroit, Michigan. Their motivations, morals, reflexes
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> and behaviors are
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> all very, very different. And the people south of that
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> border can never,
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> ever be expected to stop trying to kill one another.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm learning so much here!
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> (Again, please note the sarcasm.)
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Be as sarcastic as you will but reality shows a very
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> different
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> picture:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Crime
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Offences / 100,000 population Canada
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Offences / 100,000 population U.S.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Rape
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Canada 1.69
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> U.S. 27.31
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Assault
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Canada 150.81
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> U.S. 246.84
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Incarcerated
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Canada 104
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> U.S. 629
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> And your explanation for the differences, please? Is it
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> genetics? Are Canadians (like Brits, Irish, French, Dutch
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> etc.) are born with some special law abiding gene that's
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> missing in Americans?
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> Or is there a chance that a nation's policies and laws
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> actually affect citizens' behaviors?
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>> Laws and policies are dynamic and (more or less) reflect the
>> >> >>>>>>>>> culture. Where there is significant conflict (i.e.,
>> >> >>>>>>>>> Prohibition) the laws and/or policies change, not the culture.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>> You may well argue that alcohol is an anomaly and you meant
>> >> >>>>>>>>> well understood crimes of long standing such as theft and
>> >> >>>>>>>>> robbery and that those are different. You'd be wrong.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/new-yorks-no-bail-law-leaves-a-trail-of-violence/ar-BB1gmfaq
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>> https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/06/us/alvin-bragg-manhattan-district-attorney-crimes-prosecution/index.html
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>> https://www.foxla.com/news/gascon-launches-diversion-program-for-minors-who-commit-felony-burglary-vehicle-theft-robbery
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>> https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-justice/commentary/meet-chesa-boudin-the-rogue-prosecutor-wreaking-havoc-san-francisco
>> >> >>>>>>>> You need only look at the massive increase in the most violent crimes under the Democrats to see that they have played directly into the hands of the criminals.
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>> https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/10/27/what-we-know-about-the-increase-in-u-s-murders-in-2020/ft_21-010-19_murderrate_3a/
>> >> >>>>>>> Shows murders from about 1968 to 2020. Up with Nixon, down a bit with Ford, then up with Carter, then down and up with Reagan and Bush1, then down down down with Clinton, Bush2, Obama first term, then up Obama second term and UP UP UP at the end of Trump term. Trump had the HIGHEST increase in history for murders during his final year.
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> Yes that's true but you miss the state/local differences
>> >> >>>>>> which are critical because Federal murder prosecution is
>> >> >>>>>> extremely rare:
>> >> >>>>>> https://qz.com/162289/217-years-of-homicide-in-new-york/
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> Typically (shows local differences)
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> https://static01.nyt.com/images/2016/09/08/us/us-murder-rates-1473385452240/us-murder-rates-1473385452240-videoSixteenByNine3000.png?year=2016&h=1687&w=3000&sig=0xa5fc7ca9d975cc8f21d29a25deecab99&tw=1
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> Can't find comparative charts through 2021, a year in which
>> >> >>>>>> many cities gave up on law enforcement (or actively promoted
>> >> >>>>>> arson riot and looting) but here's a resource through 2019:
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> https://www.disastercenter.com/crime/nycrime.htm
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Do you really believe those statistics? They are plainly being manipulated by using numbers per 100,000 rather than actual numbers. Exactly how much are they rounding off and in which direction? It is all BS if you ask me.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>> OK.
>> >> >>>> Time is finite and I spent as much of it as I thought
>> >> >>>> appropriate on a web search. Find better data and link it
>> >> >>>> when you find it, THX.
>> >> >>> I don't quite understand the problem here Andrew. The Democrats simply hide the numbers of deaths by putting them in a context in which they don't look "that bad".
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> For instance, there were almost three times as many people murdered in New York City in 2021 than have fallen so far in the Ukraine!
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Russia attacked Ukraine on Wednesday last week. So Russia has been attacking Ukraine for 5 days now. I saw an article on Yahoo that said 352 dead Ukrainians so far. About 70 per day killed by Russians. New York City had 365 days during 2021. 365 x 70 = 25,500. I'm not too surprised New York City had more people murdered in 2021 than have died in Ukraine so far. Heck, if they only murdered one person per day in New York City in 2021, they would still outnumber the amount of Ukrainians killed by Russia. But Tommy boy is claiming three times as many murdered in New York City than in Ukraine. I have 352 murdered in Ukraine by Russia. So three times that is about 1056. I used Google to look up the murders in New York City in 2021. 485 is the total. So New York City in all of 2021 had 38% more murders than the number of people killed in Ukraine by Russia. Tommy, did you get your "three times" number by dividing 1 by 38% and getting 2.63 and then rounded up to 3?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> https://nypost.com/2022/01/01/nyc-recorded-485-murders-in-2021/
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> There were MORE Americans murdered in Chicago over the length of the Iraq War than there were in Iraq! If you allow these morons to continue to pay games with statistics no one knows or can understand anything. What is going on in Democrat led cities and states is nothing less than a war.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Of course we could be stupid like Frank and blame it on guns. Or we can face the facts that the Democrats make condition of hatred in groups in order to foment support simply to obtain control of the masses. Don't you think we should stop playing their games?
>> >> >
>> >> >Well, how about some pleasant numbers instead?
>> >> >
>> >> >The 'inadequate' Ukraine military with large numbers of
>> >> >'unskilled' citizenry have dispatched a few thousand Russian
>> >> >conscripts and taken prisoners, wrecked hundreds of vehicles
>> >> >(including with molotovs) and shown great courage along with
>> >> >their resourcefulness.
>> >> Is that from the current escapade?
>> >>
>> >> I tried looking up "Deaths in Ukraine War" and found that there has
>> >> been considerable unrest in the Ukraine since 2014, at least, with
>> >> quite a bit of pro Russian sentiment and anti Russian sentiment
>> >> occurring.
>> >>
>> >> Apparently the current situation is really not as isolated an event
>> >> as the news, or at least the news here, might have it.
>> >>
>> >> Which, of course, doesn't justify anything but it is interesting to
>> >> see that the current "war" has an 8 year history of discord.
>> >> --
>> >> Cheers,
>> >>
>> >> John B.
>> >
>> >As Andy replied, this week. Since last Wednesday or Thursday I believe. Crimea peninsula was taken over by Russia in 2014. I forget how much battle occurred then. And the two areas of Ukraine in the SE corner in which Putin said now belong to Russia last week, there has been fighting between pro Russia and pro Ukraine forces there for several years now. But I don't believe they have been shooting and bombing non stop every day for several years now. I think its more of a shooting breaks out every now and then situation. Not non stop shooting. I think the current invasion is non stop shooting and bombing going on. All over Ukraine. Especially Kyiv Ukraine where 3 million people live.
>> The article I read talked about 2200 fatalities since 2014. And there
>> are, apparently, a substantial number of people living in the Ukraine
>> who would prefer to "be Russians".
>
>I'm pretty sure there is a substantial number of Hispanic, Mexican, people living in the California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, who would prefer to "be Mexicans".

On 2/28/2022 8:32 PM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 12:47:35 AM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 22:13:45 -0800 (PST), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 9:39:36 PM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 21:16:32 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2/27/2022 8:20 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 4:19:21 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 11:02:52 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2/27/2022 11:47 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 9:17:29 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2/27/2022 2:28 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 3:32:24 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 9:05:17 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/26/2022 9:57 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/26/2022 1:47 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 11:32:25 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 6:06 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 12:02:17 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 11:19 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 10:49 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 5:49:51 PM UTC-8,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 6:44 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 12:27:31 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 9:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 7:57 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 8:31 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, of course I was ridiculing Franks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assertion, at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> least as I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understood him, that somehow one would be more,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or less,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stricken by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grief depending on the cause of death.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You're being totally unrealistic, in a foolish
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attempt to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pursue a nonsense argument.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Neither individuals nor society treat all deaths
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as equal,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nor have identical feelings about all deaths.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death of an elderly person who has lived a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> full life is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one thing. Perhaps it is regrettable depending on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conditions, but often people remark "Well, it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was time" or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something similar.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death from natural causes of a middle aged
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or younger
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person is generally treated as a bit more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regrettable. A
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar death of a child even more so.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> An accidental death of those people triggers yet
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regret, and may lead to anger at how such a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing could be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> allowed to happen.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a person rightfully triggers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outrage and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> criminal prosecution.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a child, even more outrage.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The killing of 20 children sitting in school is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> considered
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> truly heinous. At least, by people who are not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avid fans of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the weapon used.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes I understand you and you're not wrong in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> principle but policy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> based
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on anomalies doesn't always work out well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/1927-bombing-remains-americas-deadliest-school-massacre-180963355/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A British-born engineer and colleague of mine in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 1970s used to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mock
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a slogan the NRA promoted in those days. He said
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "And when bombs are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outlawed, only outlaws will have bombs."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if today's pretend soldiers will use the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Second Amendment to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> call for free use and possession of bombs?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are slipping right down into the throes of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> silly ness.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your colleague's mocking comment is pretty silly as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> today, in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> U.S., several states with rather severe hand gun
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> control laws are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finding more and more being smuggled into the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> state. So it is a truism
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that when guns are outlawed only criminals will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have guns.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You might try a google search on "gun+smuggle". I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get 15,600,000
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "hits".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/gun-trafficking-ring-ohio-camden-new-jersey-weapons-arrests/205248/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Out here in the actual world it's the same market
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as dope. Prohibition or hyper regulatory tax schemes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guarantee a higher profit to contraband.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK, you guys have convinced me! Laws never work, so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we should outlaw
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all laws. Got it!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Since this is Usenet, I may have to say that was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sarcasm.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Suggestions welcome.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Canadian laws.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> British laws.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> French laws.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Heck, Swiss laws. Lots of guns, but in "well regulated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> militias." And
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> far, far less gun crime than the U.S.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Very few developed nations emulate the U.S.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Re Canadian laws...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I did a bit of research and Canada has a far lower
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> incident of violent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> crime, i.e. law breaking, then the U.S.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you suppose that this is a matter of better laws or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is it a matter
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of a more law abiding people?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, I suspect the same applies to The British, and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Swiss.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Got it. It has nothing to do with laws or national
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> policies! The people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in (say) Windsor, Ontario are a different species than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those in (say)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Detroit, Michigan. Their motivations, morals, reflexes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and behaviors are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all very, very different. And the people south of that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> border can never,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ever be expected to stop trying to kill one another.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm learning so much here!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Again, please note the sarcasm.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Be as sarcastic as you will but reality shows a very
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> different
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> picture:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Crime
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Offences / 100,000 population Canada
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Offences / 100,000 population U.S.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rape
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Canada 1.69
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> U.S. 27.31
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Assault
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Canada 150.81
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> U.S. 246.84
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Incarcerated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Canada 104
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> U.S. 629
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And your explanation for the differences, please? Is it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> genetics? Are Canadians (like Brits, Irish, French, Dutch
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc.) are born with some special law abiding gene that's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> missing in Americans?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Or is there a chance that a nation's policies and laws
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actually affect citizens' behaviors?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laws and policies are dynamic and (more or less) reflect the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> culture. Where there is significant conflict (i.e.,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Prohibition) the laws and/or policies change, not the culture.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You may well argue that alcohol is an anomaly and you meant
>>>>>>>>>>>>> well understood crimes of long standing such as theft and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> robbery and that those are different. You'd be wrong.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/new-yorks-no-bail-law-leaves-a-trail-of-violence/ar-BB1gmfaq
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/06/us/alvin-bragg-manhattan-district-attorney-crimes-prosecution/index.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.foxla.com/news/gascon-launches-diversion-program-for-minors-who-commit-felony-burglary-vehicle-theft-robbery
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-justice/commentary/meet-chesa-boudin-the-rogue-prosecutor-wreaking-havoc-san-francisco
>>>>>>>>>>>> You need only look at the massive increase in the most violent crimes under the Democrats to see that they have played directly into the hands of the criminals.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/10/27/what-we-know-about-the-increase-in-u-s-murders-in-2020/ft_21-010-19_murderrate_3a/
>>>>>>>>>>> Shows murders from about 1968 to 2020. Up with Nixon, down a bit with Ford, then up with Carter, then down and up with Reagan and Bush1, then down down down with Clinton, Bush2, Obama first term, then up Obama second term and UP UP UP at the end of Trump term. Trump had the HIGHEST increase in history for murders during his final year.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yes that's true but you miss the state/local differences
>>>>>>>>>> which are critical because Federal murder prosecution is
>>>>>>>>>> extremely rare:
>>>>>>>>>> https://qz.com/162289/217-years-of-homicide-in-new-york/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Typically (shows local differences)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://static01.nyt.com/images/2016/09/08/us/us-murder-rates-1473385452240/us-murder-rates-1473385452240-videoSixteenByNine3000.png?year=2016&h=1687&w=3000&sig=0xa5fc7ca9d975cc8f21d29a25deecab99&tw=1
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Can't find comparative charts through 2021, a year in which
>>>>>>>>>> many cities gave up on law enforcement (or actively promoted
>>>>>>>>>> arson riot and looting) but here's a resource through 2019:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.disastercenter.com/crime/nycrime.htm
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Do you really believe those statistics? They are plainly being manipulated by using numbers per 100,000 rather than actual numbers. Exactly how much are they rounding off and in which direction? It is all BS if you ask me.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> OK.
>>>>>>>> Time is finite and I spent as much of it as I thought
>>>>>>>> appropriate on a web search. Find better data and link it
>>>>>>>> when you find it, THX.
>>>>>>> I don't quite understand the problem here Andrew. The Democrats simply hide the numbers of deaths by putting them in a context in which they don't look "that bad".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For instance, there were almost three times as many people murdered in New York City in 2021 than have fallen so far in the Ukraine!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Russia attacked Ukraine on Wednesday last week. So Russia has been attacking Ukraine for 5 days now. I saw an article on Yahoo that said 352 dead Ukrainians so far. About 70 per day killed by Russians. New York City had 365 days during 2021. 365 x 70 = 25,500. I'm not too surprised New York City had more people murdered in 2021 than have died in Ukraine so far. Heck, if they only murdered one person per day in New York City in 2021, they would still outnumber the amount of Ukrainians killed by Russia. But Tommy boy is claiming three times as many murdered in New York City than in Ukraine. I have 352 murdered in Ukraine by Russia. So three times that is about 1056. I used Google to look up the murders in New York City in 2021. 485 is the total. So New York City in all of 2021 had 38% more murders than the number of people killed in Ukraine by Russia. Tommy, did you get your "three times" number by dividing 1 by 38% and getting 2.63 and then rounded up to 3?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://nypost.com/2022/01/01/nyc-recorded-485-murders-in-2021/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There were MORE Americans murdered in Chicago over the length of the Iraq War than there were in Iraq! If you allow these morons to continue to pay games with statistics no one knows or can understand anything. What is going on in Democrat led cities and states is nothing less than a war.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Of course we could be stupid like Frank and blame it on guns. Or we can face the facts that the Democrats make condition of hatred in groups in order to foment support simply to obtain control of the masses. Don't you think we should stop playing their games?
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, how about some pleasant numbers instead?
>>>>>
>>>>> The 'inadequate' Ukraine military with large numbers of
>>>>> 'unskilled' citizenry have dispatched a few thousand Russian
>>>>> conscripts and taken prisoners, wrecked hundreds of vehicles
>>>>> (including with molotovs) and shown great courage along with
>>>>> their resourcefulness.
>>>> Is that from the current escapade?
>>>>
>>>> I tried looking up "Deaths in Ukraine War" and found that there has
>>>> been considerable unrest in the Ukraine since 2014, at least, with
>>>> quite a bit of pro Russian sentiment and anti Russian sentiment
>>>> occurring.
>>>>
>>>> Apparently the current situation is really not as isolated an event
>>>> as the news, or at least the news here, might have it.
>>>>
>>>> Which, of course, doesn't justify anything but it is interesting to
>>>> see that the current "war" has an 8 year history of discord.
>>>> --
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> John B.
>>>
>>> As Andy replied, this week. Since last Wednesday or Thursday I believe. Crimea peninsula was taken over by Russia in 2014. I forget how much battle occurred then. And the two areas of Ukraine in the SE corner in which Putin said now belong to Russia last week, there has been fighting between pro Russia and pro Ukraine forces there for several years now. But I don't believe they have been shooting and bombing non stop every day for several years now. I think its more of a shooting breaks out every now and then situation. Not non stop shooting. I think the current invasion is non stop shooting and bombing going on. All over Ukraine. Especially Kyiv Ukraine where 3 million people live.
>> The article I read talked about 2200 fatalities since 2014. And there
>> are, apparently, a substantial number of people living in the Ukraine
>> who would prefer to "be Russians".
>
> I'm pretty sure there is a substantial number of Hispanic, Mexican, people living in the California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, who would prefer to "be Mexicans".
>
> There are also lots and lots of white supremacists, neo Nazi followers in the USA would love to kill all the Jews and blacks and Mexicans.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> see
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Ukrainian_War#Pro-Russian_unrest
>>
>> The Ukraine officially became a part of Soviet Socialist Republic in
>> 1922, it wasn't until 1990 that they became an independent country.
>>
>> Another point is that after independence the Ukraine economy pretty
>> much failed. The GDP fell to less then half what it had been and they
>> suffered a "5 digit inflation"
>>
>> I'm admittedly guessing but I would think that a large portion of the
>> Ukrainian population would/will be quite happy to rejoin Russia.
>> --
>> Cheers,
>>
>> John B.

On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 9:30:12 PM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 18:32:56 -0800 (PST), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 12:47:35 AM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
> >> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 22:13:45 -0800 (PST), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> >> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 9:39:36 PM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
> >> >> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 21:16:32 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >On 2/27/2022 8:20 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> >> >> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 4:19:21 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> >> >>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 11:02:52 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >> >> >>>> On 2/27/2022 11:47 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> >> >>>>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 9:17:29 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >> >> >>>>>> On 2/27/2022 2:28 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> >> >>>>>>> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 3:32:24 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> >> >>>>>>>> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 9:05:17 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >> >> >>>>>>>>> On 2/26/2022 9:57 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> On 2/26/2022 1:47 AM, John B. wrote:
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 11:32:25 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 6:06 PM, John B. wrote:
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 12:02:17 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 11:19 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 10:49 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 5:49:51 PM UTC-8,
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AMuzi wrote:
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 6:44 PM, John B. wrote:
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 12:27:31 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 9:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 7:57 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 8:31 PM, John B. wrote:
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, of course I was ridiculing Franks
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assertion, at
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> least as I
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understood him, that somehow one would be more,
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or less,
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stricken by
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grief depending on the cause of death.
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You're being totally unrealistic, in a foolish
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attempt to
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pursue a nonsense argument.
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Neither individuals nor society treat all deaths
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as equal,
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nor have identical feelings about all deaths.
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death of an elderly person who has lived a
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> full life is
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one thing. Perhaps it is regrettable depending on
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conditions, but often people remark "Well, it
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was time" or
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something similar.
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death from natural causes of a middle aged
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or younger
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person is generally treated as a bit more
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regrettable. A
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar death of a child even more so.
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> An accidental death of those people triggers yet
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regret, and may lead to anger at how such a
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing could be
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> allowed to happen.
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a person rightfully triggers
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outrage and
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> criminal prosecution.
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a child, even more outrage.
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The killing of 20 children sitting in school is
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> considered
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> truly heinous. At least, by people who are not
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avid fans of
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the weapon used.
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes I understand you and you're not wrong in
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> principle but policy
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> based
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on anomalies doesn't always work out well.
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/1927-bombing-remains-americas-deadliest-school-massacre-180963355/
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A British-born engineer and colleague of mine in
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 1970s used to
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mock
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a slogan the NRA promoted in those days. He said
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "And when bombs are
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outlawed, only outlaws will have bombs."
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if today's pretend soldiers will use the
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Second Amendment to
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> call for free use and possession of bombs?
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are slipping right down into the throes of
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> silly ness.
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your colleague's mocking comment is pretty silly as
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> today, in the
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> U.S., several states with rather severe hand gun
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> control laws are
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finding more and more being smuggled into the
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> state. So it is a truism
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that when guns are outlawed only criminals will
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have guns.
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You might try a google search on "gun+smuggle". I
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get 15,600,000
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "hits".
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/gun-trafficking-ring-ohio-camden-new-jersey-weapons-arrests/205248/
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Out here in the actual world it's the same market
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as dope. Prohibition or hyper regulatory tax schemes
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guarantee a higher profit to contraband.
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK, you guys have convinced me! Laws never work, so
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we should outlaw
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all laws. Got it!
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Since this is Usenet, I may have to say that was
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sarcasm.)
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Suggestions welcome.
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK:
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Canadian laws.
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> British laws.
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> French laws.
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Heck, Swiss laws. Lots of guns, but in "well regulated
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> militias." And
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> far, far less gun crime than the U.S.
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Very few developed nations emulate the U.S.
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Re Canadian laws...
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I did a bit of research and Canada has a far lower
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> incident of violent
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> crime, i.e. law breaking, then the U.S.
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you suppose that this is a matter of better laws or
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> is it a matter
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> of a more law abiding people?
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> And, I suspect the same applies to The British, and the
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Swiss.
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Got it. It has nothing to do with laws or national
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> policies! The people
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> in (say) Windsor, Ontario are a different species than
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> those in (say)
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Detroit, Michigan. Their motivations, morals, reflexes
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> and behaviors are
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> all very, very different. And the people south of that
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> border can never,
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> ever be expected to stop trying to kill one another.
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm learning so much here!
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> (Again, please note the sarcasm.)
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Be as sarcastic as you will but reality shows a very
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> different
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> picture:
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Crime
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Offences / 100,000 population Canada
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Offences / 100,000 population U.S.
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Rape
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Canada 1.69
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> U.S. 27.31
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Assault
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Canada 150.81
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> U.S. 246.84
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Incarcerated
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Canada 104
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> U.S. 629
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> And your explanation for the differences, please? Is it
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> genetics? Are Canadians (like Brits, Irish, French, Dutch
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> etc.) are born with some special law abiding gene that's
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> missing in Americans?
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> Or is there a chance that a nation's policies and laws
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> actually affect citizens' behaviors?
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>> Laws and policies are dynamic and (more or less) reflect the
> >> >> >>>>>>>>> culture. Where there is significant conflict (i.e.,
> >> >> >>>>>>>>> Prohibition) the laws and/or policies change, not the culture.
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>> You may well argue that alcohol is an anomaly and you meant
> >> >> >>>>>>>>> well understood crimes of long standing such as theft and
> >> >> >>>>>>>>> robbery and that those are different. You'd be wrong.
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/new-yorks-no-bail-law-leaves-a-trail-of-violence/ar-BB1gmfaq
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>> https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/06/us/alvin-bragg-manhattan-district-attorney-crimes-prosecution/index.html
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>> https://www.foxla.com/news/gascon-launches-diversion-program-for-minors-who-commit-felony-burglary-vehicle-theft-robbery
> >> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>>>> https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-justice/commentary/meet-chesa-boudin-the-rogue-prosecutor-wreaking-havoc-san-francisco
> >> >> >>>>>>>> You need only look at the massive increase in the most violent crimes under the Democrats to see that they have played directly into the hands of the criminals.
> >> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>> https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/10/27/what-we-know-about-the-increase-in-u-s-murders-in-2020/ft_21-010-19_murderrate_3a/
> >> >> >>>>>>> Shows murders from about 1968 to 2020. Up with Nixon, down a bit with Ford, then up with Carter, then down and up with Reagan and Bush1, then down down down with Clinton, Bush2, Obama first term, then up Obama second term and UP UP UP at the end of Trump term. Trump had the HIGHEST increase in history for murders during his final year.
> >> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>> Yes that's true but you miss the state/local differences
> >> >> >>>>>> which are critical because Federal murder prosecution is
> >> >> >>>>>> extremely rare:
> >> >> >>>>>> https://qz.com/162289/217-years-of-homicide-in-new-york/
> >> >> >>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>> Typically (shows local differences)
> >> >> >>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>> https://static01.nyt.com/images/2016/09/08/us/us-murder-rates-1473385452240/us-murder-rates-1473385452240-videoSixteenByNine3000.png?year=2016&h=1687&w=3000&sig=0xa5fc7ca9d975cc8f21d29a25deecab99&tw=1
> >> >> >>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>> Can't find comparative charts through 2021, a year in which
> >> >> >>>>>> many cities gave up on law enforcement (or actively promoted
> >> >> >>>>>> arson riot and looting) but here's a resource through 2019:
> >> >> >>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>> https://www.disastercenter.com/crime/nycrime.htm
> >> >> >>>>>
> >> >> >>>>> Do you really believe those statistics? They are plainly being manipulated by using numbers per 100,000 rather than actual numbers. Exactly how much are they rounding off and in which direction? It is all BS if you ask me.
> >> >> >>>>>
> >> >> >>>> OK.
> >> >> >>>> Time is finite and I spent as much of it as I thought
> >> >> >>>> appropriate on a web search. Find better data and link it
> >> >> >>>> when you find it, THX.
> >> >> >>> I don't quite understand the problem here Andrew. The Democrats simply hide the numbers of deaths by putting them in a context in which they don't look "that bad".
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> For instance, there were almost three times as many people murdered in New York City in 2021 than have fallen so far in the Ukraine!
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Russia attacked Ukraine on Wednesday last week. So Russia has been attacking Ukraine for 5 days now. I saw an article on Yahoo that said 352 dead Ukrainians so far. About 70 per day killed by Russians. New York City had 365 days during 2021. 365 x 70 = 25,500. I'm not too surprised New York City had more people murdered in 2021 than have died in Ukraine so far.. Heck, if they only murdered one person per day in New York City in 2021, they would still outnumber the amount of Ukrainians killed by Russia. But Tommy boy is claiming three times as many murdered in New York City than in Ukraine. I have 352 murdered in Ukraine by Russia. So three times that is about 1056. I used Google to look up the murders in New York City in 2021. 485 is the total. So New York City in all of 2021 had 38% more murders than the number of people killed in Ukraine by Russia. Tommy, did you get your "three times" number by dividing 1 by 38% and getting 2.63 and then rounded up to 3?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> https://nypost.com/2022/01/01/nyc-recorded-485-murders-in-2021/
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>> There were MORE Americans murdered in Chicago over the length of the Iraq War than there were in Iraq! If you allow these morons to continue to pay games with statistics no one knows or can understand anything. What is going on in Democrat led cities and states is nothing less than a war..
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Of course we could be stupid like Frank and blame it on guns. Or we can face the facts that the Democrats make condition of hatred in groups in order to foment support simply to obtain control of the masses. Don't you think we should stop playing their games?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Well, how about some pleasant numbers instead?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >The 'inadequate' Ukraine military with large numbers of
> >> >> >'unskilled' citizenry have dispatched a few thousand Russian
> >> >> >conscripts and taken prisoners, wrecked hundreds of vehicles
> >> >> >(including with molotovs) and shown great courage along with
> >> >> >their resourcefulness.
> >> >> Is that from the current escapade?
> >> >>
> >> >> I tried looking up "Deaths in Ukraine War" and found that there has
> >> >> been considerable unrest in the Ukraine since 2014, at least, with
> >> >> quite a bit of pro Russian sentiment and anti Russian sentiment
> >> >> occurring.
> >> >>
> >> >> Apparently the current situation is really not as isolated an event
> >> >> as the news, or at least the news here, might have it.
> >> >>
> >> >> Which, of course, doesn't justify anything but it is interesting to
> >> >> see that the current "war" has an 8 year history of discord.
> >> >> --
> >> >> Cheers,
> >> >>
> >> >> John B.
> >> >
> >> >As Andy replied, this week. Since last Wednesday or Thursday I believe. Crimea peninsula was taken over by Russia in 2014. I forget how much battle occurred then. And the two areas of Ukraine in the SE corner in which Putin said now belong to Russia last week, there has been fighting between pro Russia and pro Ukraine forces there for several years now. But I don't believe they have been shooting and bombing non stop every day for several years now. I think its more of a shooting breaks out every now and then situation. Not non stop shooting. I think the current invasion is non stop shooting and bombing going on. All over Ukraine. Especially Kyiv Ukraine where 3 million people live.
> >> The article I read talked about 2200 fatalities since 2014. And there
> >> are, apparently, a substantial number of people living in the Ukraine
> >> who would prefer to "be Russians".
> >
> >I'm pretty sure there is a substantial number of Hispanic, Mexican, people living in the California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, who would prefer to "be Mexicans".
> Well, if the "Hispanic, Mexican people" want to be Mexican it is only
> a short trip to Mexico where I'd guess they would be made welcome, so
> why don't they go?