On 2/26/2022 5:59 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 10:57:52 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> On 2/26/2022 1:47 AM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 11:32:25 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2/24/2022 6:06 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 12:02:17 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 11:19 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 10:49 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 5:49:51 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 6:44 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 12:27:31 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 9:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 7:57 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 8:31 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, of course I was ridiculing Franks assertion, at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> least as I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understood him, that somehow one would be more, or less,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stricken by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grief depending on the cause of death.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You're being totally unrealistic, in a foolish attempt to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> pursue a nonsense argument.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Neither individuals nor society treat all deaths as equal,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nor have identical feelings about all deaths.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death of an elderly person who has lived a full life is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> one thing. Perhaps it is regrettable depending on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> conditions, but often people remark "Well, it was time" or
>>>>>>>>>>>>> something similar.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death from natural causes of a middle aged or younger
>>>>>>>>>>>>> person is generally treated as a bit more regrettable. A
>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar death of a child even more so.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> An accidental death of those people triggers yet more
>>>>>>>>>>>>> regret, and may lead to anger at how such a thing could be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> allowed to happen.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a person rightfully triggers outrage and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> criminal prosecution.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a child, even more outrage.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The killing of 20 children sitting in school is considered
>>>>>>>>>>>>> truly heinous. At least, by people who are not avid fans of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the weapon used.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes I understand you and you're not wrong in principle but policy
>>>>>>>>>>>> based
>>>>>>>>>>>> on anomalies doesn't always work out well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/1927-bombing-remains-americas-deadliest-school-massacre-180963355/
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> A British-born engineer and colleague of mine in the 1970s used to
>>>>>>>>>>> mock
>>>>>>>>>>> a slogan the NRA promoted in those days. He said "And when bombs are
>>>>>>>>>>> outlawed, only outlaws will have bombs."
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if today's pretend soldiers will use the Second Amendment to
>>>>>>>>>>> call for free use and possession of bombs?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You are slipping right down into the throes of silly ness.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Your colleague's mocking comment is pretty silly as today, in the
>>>>>>>>>> U.S., several states with rather severe hand gun control laws are
>>>>>>>>>> finding more and more being smuggled into the state. So it is a truism
>>>>>>>>>> that when guns are outlawed only criminals will have guns.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You might try a google search on "gun+smuggle". I get 15,600,000
>>>>>>>>>> "hits".
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/gun-trafficking-ring-ohio-camden-new-jersey-weapons-arrests/205248/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Out here in the actual world it's the same market phenomenon
>>>>>>>>> as dope. Prohibition or hyper regulatory tax schemes
>>>>>>>>> guarantee a higher profit to contraband.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> OK, you guys have convinced me! Laws never work, so we should outlaw
>>>>>>>> all laws. Got it!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (Since this is Usenet, I may have to say that was sarcasm.)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Suggestions welcome.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> OK:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Canadian laws.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> British laws.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> French laws.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Heck, Swiss laws. Lots of guns, but in "well regulated militias." And
>>>>>> far, far less gun crime than the U.S.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Very few developed nations emulate the U.S.
>>>>>
>>>>> Re Canadian laws...
>>>>>
>>>>> I did a bit of research and Canada has a far lower incident of violent
>>>>> crime, i.e. law breaking, then the U.S.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you suppose that this is a matter of better laws or is it a matter
>>>>> of a more law abiding people?
>>>>> And, I suspect the same applies to The British, and the Swiss.
>>>>
>>>> Got it. It has nothing to do with laws or national policies! The people
>>>> in (say) Windsor, Ontario are a different species than those in (say)
>>>> Detroit, Michigan. Their motivations, morals, reflexes and behaviors are
>>>> all very, very different. And the people south of that border can never,
>>>> ever be expected to stop trying to kill one another.
>>>>
>>>> I'm learning so much here!
>>>>
>>>> (Again, please note the sarcasm.)
>>>
>>>
>>> Be as sarcastic as you will but reality shows a very different
>>> picture:
>>>
>>> Crime
>>> Offences / 100,000 population Canada
>>> Offences / 100,000 population U.S.
>>>
>>> Rape
>>> Canada 1.69
>>> U.S. 27.31
>>>
>>> Assault
>>> Canada 150.81
>>> U.S. 246.84
>>>
>>> Incarcerated
>>> Canada 104
>>> U.S. 629
>>
>> And your explanation for the differences, please? Is it genetics? Are
>> Canadians (like Brits, Irish, French, Dutch etc.) are born with some
>> special law abiding gene that's missing in Americans?
>>
>> Or is there a chance that a nation's policies and laws actually affect
>> citizens' behaviors?
>
> Oh, you mean what you've described as stringent gun laws reduce rape?
> Or limit the number of criminals in the society, as indicated by the
> numbers in prison?

On 2/26/2022 6:07 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 16:20:25 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> On 2/26/2022 12:05 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 2/26/2022 9:57 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>> On 2/26/2022 1:47 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 11:32:25 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 6:06 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>> On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 12:02:17 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 11:19 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 10:49 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 5:49:51 PM UTC-8,
>>>>>>>>>> AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 6:44 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 12:27:31 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 9:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 7:57 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 8:31 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, of course I was ridiculing Franks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assertion, at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> least as I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understood him, that somehow one would be more,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or less,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stricken by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grief depending on the cause of death.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You're being totally unrealistic, in a foolish
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attempt to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pursue a nonsense argument.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Neither individuals nor society treat all deaths
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as equal,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nor have identical feelings about all deaths.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death of an elderly person who has lived a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> full life is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one thing. Perhaps it is regrettable depending on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conditions, but often people remark "Well, it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was time" or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something similar.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death from natural causes of a middle aged
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or younger
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person is generally treated as a bit more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regrettable. A
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar death of a child even more so.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> An accidental death of those people triggers yet
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regret, and may lead to anger at how such a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing could be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> allowed to happen.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a person rightfully triggers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outrage and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> criminal prosecution.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a child, even more outrage.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The killing of 20 children sitting in school is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> considered
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> truly heinous. At least, by people who are not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avid fans of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the weapon used.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes I understand you and you're not wrong in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> principle but policy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> based
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on anomalies doesn't always work out well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/1927-bombing-remains-americas-deadliest-school-massacre-180963355/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> A British-born engineer and colleague of mine in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 1970s used to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mock
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a slogan the NRA promoted in those days. He said
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "And when bombs are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> outlawed, only outlaws will have bombs."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if today's pretend soldiers will use the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Second Amendment to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> call for free use and possession of bombs?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You are slipping right down into the throes of
>>>>>>>>>>>> silly ness.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Your colleague's mocking comment is pretty silly as
>>>>>>>>>>>> today, in the
>>>>>>>>>>>> U.S., several states with rather severe hand gun
>>>>>>>>>>>> control laws are
>>>>>>>>>>>> finding more and more being smuggled into the
>>>>>>>>>>>> state. So it is a truism
>>>>>>>>>>>> that when guns are outlawed only criminals will
>>>>>>>>>>>> have guns.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You might try a google search on "gun+smuggle". I
>>>>>>>>>>>> get 15,600,000
>>>>>>>>>>>> "hits".
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/gun-trafficking-ring-ohio-camden-new-jersey-weapons-arrests/205248/
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Out here in the actual world it's the same market
>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon
>>>>>>>>>>> as dope. Prohibition or hyper regulatory tax schemes
>>>>>>>>>>> guarantee a higher profit to contraband.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> OK, you guys have convinced me! Laws never work, so
>>>>>>>>>> we should outlaw
>>>>>>>>>> all laws. Got it!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> (Since this is Usenet, I may have to say that was
>>>>>>>>>> sarcasm.)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Suggestions welcome.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> OK:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Canadian laws.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> British laws.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> French laws.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Heck, Swiss laws. Lots of guns, but in "well regulated
>>>>>>>> militias." And
>>>>>>>> far, far less gun crime than the U.S.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Very few developed nations emulate the U.S.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Re Canadian laws...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I did a bit of research and Canada has a far lower
>>>>>>> incident of violent
>>>>>>> crime, i.e. law breaking, then the U.S.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Do you suppose that this is a matter of better laws or
>>>>>>> is it a matter
>>>>>>> of a more law abiding people?
>>>>>>> And, I suspect the same applies to The British, and the
>>>>>>> Swiss.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Got it. It has nothing to do with laws or national
>>>>>> policies! The people
>>>>>> in (say) Windsor, Ontario are a different species than
>>>>>> those in (say)
>>>>>> Detroit, Michigan. Their motivations, morals, reflexes
>>>>>> and behaviors are
>>>>>> all very, very different. And the people south of that
>>>>>> border can never,
>>>>>> ever be expected to stop trying to kill one another.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm learning so much here!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (Again, please note the sarcasm.)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Be as sarcastic as you will but reality shows a very
>>>>> different
>>>>> picture:
>>>>>
>>>>> Crime
>>>>> Offences / 100,000 population  Canada
>>>>> Offences / 100,000 population U.S.
>>>>>
>>>>>   Rape
>>>>> Canada 1.69
>>>>> U.S. 27.31
>>>>>
>>>>> Assault
>>>>> Canada 150.81
>>>>> U.S. 246.84
>>>>>
>>>>> Incarcerated
>>>>> Canada 104
>>>>> U.S. 629
>>>>
>>>> And your explanation for the differences, please? Is it
>>>> genetics? Are Canadians (like Brits, Irish, French, Dutch
>>>> etc.) are born with some special law abiding gene that's
>>>> missing in Americans?
>>>>
>>>> Or is there a chance that a nation's policies and laws
>>>> actually affect citizens' behaviors?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Laws and policies are dynamic and (more or less) reflect the culture.
>>> Where there is significant conflict (i.e., Prohibition) the laws and/or
>>> policies change, not the culture.
>>>
>>> You may well argue that alcohol is an anomaly and you meant well
>>> understood crimes of long standing such as theft and robbery and that
>>> those are different. You'd be wrong.
>>>
>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/new-yorks-no-bail-law-leaves-a-trail-of-violence/ar-BB1gmfaq
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/06/us/alvin-bragg-manhattan-district-attorney-crimes-prosecution/index.html
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.foxla.com/news/gascon-launches-diversion-program-for-minors-who-commit-felony-burglary-vehicle-theft-robbery
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-justice/commentary/meet-chesa-boudin-the-rogue-prosecutor-wreaking-havoc-san-francisco
>>
>> You seem to be rebutting an argument I haven't made.
>>
>> In any case, it seems neither you nor John had no explanation for the
>> differences (nor source) he's found for Canadian vs. U.S. crime stats.
>> You can't be suggesting it's because of the anecdotes and policy changes
>> you cited in those articles. None are more than two years old, and two
>> are only a few months old.
>>
>> Do you have an explanation for Canada's much better numbers? Is their
>> justice system really more strict and punitive than ours?
>>
>> I really don't know the answer. But I very much doubt the better numbers
>> are due to some inborn, genetic difference in the populations.
>
> You are getting more Tommy like every day. You have been using Canada
> versus the U.S. as justification for your claims about U.S. gun laws
> for months and now when you are shown that Canada is a far more law
> abiding country then the U.S, you rather adroitly slid right off that
> subject and now wonder about the difference in social make up of the
> two countries.

On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 19:07:50 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 2/26/2022 5:59 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 10:57:52 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/26/2022 1:47 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 11:32:25 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2/24/2022 6:06 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>> On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 12:02:17 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 11:19 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 10:49 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 5:49:51 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 6:44 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 12:27:31 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 9:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 7:57 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 8:31 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, of course I was ridiculing Franks assertion, at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> least as I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understood him, that somehow one would be more, or less,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stricken by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grief depending on the cause of death.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You're being totally unrealistic, in a foolish attempt to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pursue a nonsense argument.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Neither individuals nor society treat all deaths as equal,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nor have identical feelings about all deaths.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death of an elderly person who has lived a full life is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one thing. Perhaps it is regrettable depending on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conditions, but often people remark "Well, it was time" or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something similar.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death from natural causes of a middle aged or younger
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person is generally treated as a bit more regrettable. A
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar death of a child even more so.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> An accidental death of those people triggers yet more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regret, and may lead to anger at how such a thing could be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> allowed to happen.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a person rightfully triggers outrage and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> criminal prosecution.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a child, even more outrage.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The killing of 20 children sitting in school is considered
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> truly heinous. At least, by people who are not avid fans of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the weapon used.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes I understand you and you're not wrong in principle but policy
>>>>>>>>>>>>> based
>>>>>>>>>>>>> on anomalies doesn't always work out well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/1927-bombing-remains-americas-deadliest-school-massacre-180963355/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> A British-born engineer and colleague of mine in the 1970s used to
>>>>>>>>>>>> mock
>>>>>>>>>>>> a slogan the NRA promoted in those days. He said "And when bombs are
>>>>>>>>>>>> outlawed, only outlaws will have bombs."
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if today's pretend soldiers will use the Second Amendment to
>>>>>>>>>>>> call for free use and possession of bombs?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You are slipping right down into the throes of silly ness.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Your colleague's mocking comment is pretty silly as today, in the
>>>>>>>>>>> U.S., several states with rather severe hand gun control laws are
>>>>>>>>>>> finding more and more being smuggled into the state. So it is a truism
>>>>>>>>>>> that when guns are outlawed only criminals will have guns.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You might try a google search on "gun+smuggle". I get 15,600,000
>>>>>>>>>>> "hits".
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/gun-trafficking-ring-ohio-camden-new-jersey-weapons-arrests/205248/
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Out here in the actual world it's the same market phenomenon
>>>>>>>>>> as dope. Prohibition or hyper regulatory tax schemes
>>>>>>>>>> guarantee a higher profit to contraband.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> OK, you guys have convinced me! Laws never work, so we should outlaw
>>>>>>>>> all laws. Got it!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (Since this is Usenet, I may have to say that was sarcasm.)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Suggestions welcome.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> OK:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Canadian laws.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> British laws.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> French laws.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Heck, Swiss laws. Lots of guns, but in "well regulated militias." And
>>>>>>> far, far less gun crime than the U.S.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Very few developed nations emulate the U.S.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Re Canadian laws...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I did a bit of research and Canada has a far lower incident of violent
>>>>>> crime, i.e. law breaking, then the U.S.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do you suppose that this is a matter of better laws or is it a matter
>>>>>> of a more law abiding people?
>>>>>> And, I suspect the same applies to The British, and the Swiss.
>>>>>
>>>>> Got it. It has nothing to do with laws or national policies! The people
>>>>> in (say) Windsor, Ontario are a different species than those in (say)
>>>>> Detroit, Michigan. Their motivations, morals, reflexes and behaviors are
>>>>> all very, very different. And the people south of that border can never,
>>>>> ever be expected to stop trying to kill one another.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm learning so much here!
>>>>>
>>>>> (Again, please note the sarcasm.)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Be as sarcastic as you will but reality shows a very different
>>>> picture:
>>>>
>>>> Crime
>>>> Offences / 100,000 population Canada
>>>> Offences / 100,000 population U.S.
>>>>
>>>> Rape
>>>> Canada 1.69
>>>> U.S. 27.31
>>>>
>>>> Assault
>>>> Canada 150.81
>>>> U.S. 246.84
>>>>
>>>> Incarcerated
>>>> Canada 104
>>>> U.S. 629
>>>
>>> And your explanation for the differences, please? Is it genetics? Are
>>> Canadians (like Brits, Irish, French, Dutch etc.) are born with some
>>> special law abiding gene that's missing in Americans?
>>>
>>> Or is there a chance that a nation's policies and laws actually affect
>>> citizens' behaviors?
>>
>> Oh, you mean what you've described as stringent gun laws reduce rape?
>> Or limit the number of criminals in the society, as indicated by the
>> numbers in prison?
>
>I notice you're not giving an explanation for the differences, John. Not
>even a guess.

On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 19:16:04 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 2/26/2022 6:07 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 16:20:25 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/26/2022 12:05 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> On 2/26/2022 9:57 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>> On 2/26/2022 1:47 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 11:32:25 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 6:06 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 12:02:17 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 11:19 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 10:49 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 5:49:51 PM UTC-8,
>>>>>>>>>>> AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 6:44 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 12:27:31 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 9:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 7:57 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 8:31 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, of course I was ridiculing Franks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assertion, at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> least as I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understood him, that somehow one would be more,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or less,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stricken by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grief depending on the cause of death.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You're being totally unrealistic, in a foolish
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attempt to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pursue a nonsense argument.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Neither individuals nor society treat all deaths
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as equal,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nor have identical feelings about all deaths.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death of an elderly person who has lived a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> full life is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one thing. Perhaps it is regrettable depending on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conditions, but often people remark "Well, it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was time" or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something similar.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death from natural causes of a middle aged
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or younger
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person is generally treated as a bit more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regrettable. A
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar death of a child even more so.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> An accidental death of those people triggers yet
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regret, and may lead to anger at how such a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing could be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> allowed to happen.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a person rightfully triggers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outrage and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> criminal prosecution.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a child, even more outrage.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The killing of 20 children sitting in school is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> considered
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> truly heinous. At least, by people who are not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avid fans of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the weapon used.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes I understand you and you're not wrong in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> principle but policy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> based
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on anomalies doesn't always work out well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/1927-bombing-remains-americas-deadliest-school-massacre-180963355/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A British-born engineer and colleague of mine in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 1970s used to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mock
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a slogan the NRA promoted in those days. He said
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "And when bombs are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outlawed, only outlaws will have bombs."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if today's pretend soldiers will use the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Second Amendment to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> call for free use and possession of bombs?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are slipping right down into the throes of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> silly ness.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your colleague's mocking comment is pretty silly as
>>>>>>>>>>>>> today, in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> U.S., several states with rather severe hand gun
>>>>>>>>>>>>> control laws are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> finding more and more being smuggled into the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> state. So it is a truism
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that when guns are outlawed only criminals will
>>>>>>>>>>>>> have guns.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You might try a google search on "gun+smuggle". I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> get 15,600,000
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "hits".
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/gun-trafficking-ring-ohio-camden-new-jersey-weapons-arrests/205248/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Out here in the actual world it's the same market
>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon
>>>>>>>>>>>> as dope. Prohibition or hyper regulatory tax schemes
>>>>>>>>>>>> guarantee a higher profit to contraband.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> OK, you guys have convinced me! Laws never work, so
>>>>>>>>>>> we should outlaw
>>>>>>>>>>> all laws. Got it!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> (Since this is Usenet, I may have to say that was
>>>>>>>>>>> sarcasm.)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Suggestions welcome.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> OK:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Canadian laws.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> British laws.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> French laws.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Heck, Swiss laws. Lots of guns, but in "well regulated
>>>>>>>>> militias." And
>>>>>>>>> far, far less gun crime than the U.S.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Very few developed nations emulate the U.S.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Re Canadian laws...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I did a bit of research and Canada has a far lower
>>>>>>>> incident of violent
>>>>>>>> crime, i.e. law breaking, then the U.S.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Do you suppose that this is a matter of better laws or
>>>>>>>> is it a matter
>>>>>>>> of a more law abiding people?
>>>>>>>> And, I suspect the same applies to The British, and the
>>>>>>>> Swiss.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Got it. It has nothing to do with laws or national
>>>>>>> policies! The people
>>>>>>> in (say) Windsor, Ontario are a different species than
>>>>>>> those in (say)
>>>>>>> Detroit, Michigan. Their motivations, morals, reflexes
>>>>>>> and behaviors are
>>>>>>> all very, very different. And the people south of that
>>>>>>> border can never,
>>>>>>> ever be expected to stop trying to kill one another.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm learning so much here!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (Again, please note the sarcasm.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Be as sarcastic as you will but reality shows a very
>>>>>> different
>>>>>> picture:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Crime
>>>>>> Offences / 100,000 population  Canada
>>>>>> Offences / 100,000 population U.S.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   Rape
>>>>>> Canada 1.69
>>>>>> U.S. 27.31
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Assault
>>>>>> Canada 150.81
>>>>>> U.S. 246.84
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Incarcerated
>>>>>> Canada 104
>>>>>> U.S. 629
>>>>>
>>>>> And your explanation for the differences, please? Is it
>>>>> genetics? Are Canadians (like Brits, Irish, French, Dutch
>>>>> etc.) are born with some special law abiding gene that's
>>>>> missing in Americans?
>>>>>
>>>>> Or is there a chance that a nation's policies and laws
>>>>> actually affect citizens' behaviors?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Laws and policies are dynamic and (more or less) reflect the culture.
>>>> Where there is significant conflict (i.e., Prohibition) the laws and/or
>>>> policies change, not the culture.
>>>>
>>>> You may well argue that alcohol is an anomaly and you meant well
>>>> understood crimes of long standing such as theft and robbery and that
>>>> those are different. You'd be wrong.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/new-yorks-no-bail-law-leaves-a-trail-of-violence/ar-BB1gmfaq
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/06/us/alvin-bragg-manhattan-district-attorney-crimes-prosecution/index.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.foxla.com/news/gascon-launches-diversion-program-for-minors-who-commit-felony-burglary-vehicle-theft-robbery
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-justice/commentary/meet-chesa-boudin-the-rogue-prosecutor-wreaking-havoc-san-francisco
>>>
>>> You seem to be rebutting an argument I haven't made.
>>>
>>> In any case, it seems neither you nor John had no explanation for the
>>> differences (nor source) he's found for Canadian vs. U.S. crime stats.
>>> You can't be suggesting it's because of the anecdotes and policy changes
>>> you cited in those articles. None are more than two years old, and two
>>> are only a few months old.
>>>
>>> Do you have an explanation for Canada's much better numbers? Is their
>>> justice system really more strict and punitive than ours?
>>>
>>> I really don't know the answer. But I very much doubt the better numbers
>>> are due to some inborn, genetic difference in the populations.
>>
>> You are getting more Tommy like every day. You have been using Canada
>> versus the U.S. as justification for your claims about U.S. gun laws
>> for months and now when you are shown that Canada is a far more law
>> abiding country then the U.S, you rather adroitly slid right off that
>> subject and now wonder about the difference in social make up of the
>> two countries.
>
>We can discuss Canadian laws, practices and culture any way you want,
>John. Just try to follow the discussion, please, without insults.
>
>Personally, I think Canadian gun laws have a direct bearing on their
>relative absence of gun violence. I feel the same about the gun laws of
>Britain, France, Netherlands, Ireland, etc. The U.S. absolutely is an
>outlier among any nations that are even vaguely similar regarding
>technology, economy and average prosperity.
>
>Your defense of U.S. gun policy is, apparently, "Canada has less rape
>too" with the implication apparently being that Americans are inherently
>much worse people.
>
>Is that not what you're implying? If so, please tell me what you DO mean.
>
>And if you believe Americans are inherently worse, can you not tell me
>what makes them that way?

On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 3:32:24 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 9:05:17 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 2/26/2022 9:57 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > On 2/26/2022 1:47 AM, John B. wrote:
> > >> On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 11:32:25 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> > >> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> On 2/24/2022 6:06 PM, John B. wrote:
> > >>>> On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 12:02:17 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> > >>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> On 2/24/2022 11:19 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> > >>>>>> On 2/23/2022 10:49 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > >>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 5:49:51 PM UTC-8,
> > >>>>>>> AMuzi wrote:
> > >>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 6:44 PM, John B. wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 12:27:31 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> > >>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 9:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 7:57 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 8:31 PM, John B. wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, of course I was ridiculing Franks
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> assertion, at
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> least as I
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> understood him, that somehow one would be more,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> or less,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> stricken by
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> grief depending on the cause of death.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> You're being totally unrealistic, in a foolish
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> attempt to
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> pursue a nonsense argument.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Neither individuals nor society treat all deaths
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> as equal,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> nor have identical feelings about all deaths.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> The death of an elderly person who has lived a
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> full life is
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> one thing. Perhaps it is regrettable depending on
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> conditions, but often people remark "Well, it
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> was time" or
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> something similar.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> The death from natural causes of a middle aged
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> or younger
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> person is generally treated as a bit more
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> regrettable. A
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> similar death of a child even more so.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> An accidental death of those people triggers yet
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> more
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> regret, and may lead to anger at how such a
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> thing could be
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> allowed to happen.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a person rightfully triggers
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> outrage and
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> criminal prosecution.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a child, even more outrage.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> The killing of 20 children sitting in school is
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> considered
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> truly heinous. At least, by people who are not
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> avid fans of
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> the weapon used.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Yes I understand you and you're not wrong in
> > >>>>>>>>>>> principle but policy
> > >>>>>>>>>>> based
> > >>>>>>>>>>> on anomalies doesn't always work out well.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/1927-bombing-remains-americas-deadliest-school-massacre-180963355/
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> A British-born engineer and colleague of mine in
> > >>>>>>>>>> the 1970s used to
> > >>>>>>>>>> mock
> > >>>>>>>>>> a slogan the NRA promoted in those days. He said
> > >>>>>>>>>> "And when bombs are
> > >>>>>>>>>> outlawed, only outlaws will have bombs."
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> I wonder if today's pretend soldiers will use the
> > >>>>>>>>>> Second Amendment to
> > >>>>>>>>>> call for free use and possession of bombs?
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> You are slipping right down into the throes of
> > >>>>>>>>> silly ness.
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Your colleague's mocking comment is pretty silly as
> > >>>>>>>>> today, in the
> > >>>>>>>>> U.S., several states with rather severe hand gun
> > >>>>>>>>> control laws are
> > >>>>>>>>> finding more and more being smuggled into the
> > >>>>>>>>> state. So it is a truism
> > >>>>>>>>> that when guns are outlawed only criminals will
> > >>>>>>>>> have guns.
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> You might try a google search on "gun+smuggle". I
> > >>>>>>>>> get 15,600,000
> > >>>>>>>>> "hits".
> > >>>>>>>>> https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/gun-trafficking-ring-ohio-camden-new-jersey-weapons-arrests/205248/
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> +1
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Out here in the actual world it's the same market
> > >>>>>>>> phenomenon
> > >>>>>>>> as dope. Prohibition or hyper regulatory tax schemes
> > >>>>>>>> guarantee a higher profit to contraband.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> OK, you guys have convinced me! Laws never work, so
> > >>>>>>> we should outlaw
> > >>>>>>> all laws. Got it!
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> (Since this is Usenet, I may have to say that was
> > >>>>>>> sarcasm.)
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Suggestions welcome.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> OK:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Canadian laws.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> British laws.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> French laws.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Heck, Swiss laws. Lots of guns, but in "well regulated
> > >>>>> militias." And
> > >>>>> far, far less gun crime than the U.S.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Very few developed nations emulate the U.S.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Re Canadian laws...
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I did a bit of research and Canada has a far lower
> > >>>> incident of violent
> > >>>> crime, i.e. law breaking, then the U.S.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Do you suppose that this is a matter of better laws or
> > >>>> is it a matter
> > >>>> of a more law abiding people?
> > >>>> And, I suspect the same applies to The British, and the
> > >>>> Swiss.
> > >>>
> > >>> Got it. It has nothing to do with laws or national
> > >>> policies! The people
> > >>> in (say) Windsor, Ontario are a different species than
> > >>> those in (say)
> > >>> Detroit, Michigan. Their motivations, morals, reflexes
> > >>> and behaviors are
> > >>> all very, very different. And the people south of that
> > >>> border can never,
> > >>> ever be expected to stop trying to kill one another.
> > >>>
> > >>> I'm learning so much here!
> > >>>
> > >>> (Again, please note the sarcasm.)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Be as sarcastic as you will but reality shows a very
> > >> different
> > >> picture:
> > >>
> > >> Crime
> > >> Offences / 100,000 population Canada
> > >> Offences / 100,000 population U.S.
> > >>
> > >> Rape
> > >> Canada 1.69
> > >> U.S. 27.31
> > >>
> > >> Assault
> > >> Canada 150.81
> > >> U.S. 246.84
> > >>
> > >> Incarcerated
> > >> Canada 104
> > >> U.S. 629
> > >
> > > And your explanation for the differences, please? Is it
> > > genetics? Are Canadians (like Brits, Irish, French, Dutch
> > > etc.) are born with some special law abiding gene that's
> > > missing in Americans?
> > >
> > > Or is there a chance that a nation's policies and laws
> > > actually affect citizens' behaviors?
> > >
> > Laws and policies are dynamic and (more or less) reflect the
> > culture. Where there is significant conflict (i.e.,
> > Prohibition) the laws and/or policies change, not the culture.
> >
> > You may well argue that alcohol is an anomaly and you meant
> > well understood crimes of long standing such as theft and
> > robbery and that those are different. You'd be wrong.
> >
> > https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/new-yorks-no-bail-law-leaves-a-trail-of-violence/ar-BB1gmfaq
> >
> > https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/06/us/alvin-bragg-manhattan-district-attorney-crimes-prosecution/index.html
> >
> > https://www.foxla.com/news/gascon-launches-diversion-program-for-minors-who-commit-felony-burglary-vehicle-theft-robbery
> >
> > https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-justice/commentary/meet-chesa-boudin-the-rogue-prosecutor-wreaking-havoc-san-francisco
> You need only look at the massive increase in the most violent crimes under the Democrats to see that they have played directly into the hands of the criminals.

On 2/26/2022 7:53 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 19:16:04 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> On 2/26/2022 6:07 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 16:20:25 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2/26/2022 12:05 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>> On 2/26/2022 9:57 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>> On 2/26/2022 1:47 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>> On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 11:32:25 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 6:06 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 12:02:17 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 11:19 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 10:49 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 5:49:51 PM UTC-8,
>>>>>>>>>>>> AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 6:44 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 12:27:31 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 9:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 7:57 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 8:31 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, of course I was ridiculing Franks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assertion, at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> least as I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understood him, that somehow one would be more,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or less,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stricken by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grief depending on the cause of death.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You're being totally unrealistic, in a foolish
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attempt to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pursue a nonsense argument.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Neither individuals nor society treat all deaths
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as equal,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nor have identical feelings about all deaths.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death of an elderly person who has lived a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> full life is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one thing. Perhaps it is regrettable depending on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conditions, but often people remark "Well, it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was time" or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something similar.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death from natural causes of a middle aged
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or younger
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person is generally treated as a bit more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regrettable. A
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar death of a child even more so.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> An accidental death of those people triggers yet
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regret, and may lead to anger at how such a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing could be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> allowed to happen.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a person rightfully triggers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outrage and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> criminal prosecution.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a child, even more outrage.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The killing of 20 children sitting in school is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> considered
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> truly heinous. At least, by people who are not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avid fans of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the weapon used.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes I understand you and you're not wrong in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> principle but policy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> based
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on anomalies doesn't always work out well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/1927-bombing-remains-americas-deadliest-school-massacre-180963355/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A British-born engineer and colleague of mine in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 1970s used to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mock
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a slogan the NRA promoted in those days. He said
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "And when bombs are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outlawed, only outlaws will have bombs."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if today's pretend soldiers will use the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Second Amendment to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> call for free use and possession of bombs?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are slipping right down into the throes of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> silly ness.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your colleague's mocking comment is pretty silly as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> today, in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> U.S., several states with rather severe hand gun
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> control laws are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finding more and more being smuggled into the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> state. So it is a truism
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that when guns are outlawed only criminals will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have guns.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You might try a google search on "gun+smuggle". I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get 15,600,000
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "hits".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/gun-trafficking-ring-ohio-camden-new-jersey-weapons-arrests/205248/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Out here in the actual world it's the same market
>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon
>>>>>>>>>>>>> as dope. Prohibition or hyper regulatory tax schemes
>>>>>>>>>>>>> guarantee a higher profit to contraband.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> OK, you guys have convinced me! Laws never work, so
>>>>>>>>>>>> we should outlaw
>>>>>>>>>>>> all laws. Got it!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> (Since this is Usenet, I may have to say that was
>>>>>>>>>>>> sarcasm.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Suggestions welcome.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> OK:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Canadian laws.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> British laws.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> French laws.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Heck, Swiss laws. Lots of guns, but in "well regulated
>>>>>>>>>> militias." And
>>>>>>>>>> far, far less gun crime than the U.S.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Very few developed nations emulate the U.S.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Re Canadian laws...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I did a bit of research and Canada has a far lower
>>>>>>>>> incident of violent
>>>>>>>>> crime, i.e. law breaking, then the U.S.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Do you suppose that this is a matter of better laws or
>>>>>>>>> is it a matter
>>>>>>>>> of a more law abiding people?
>>>>>>>>> And, I suspect the same applies to The British, and the
>>>>>>>>> Swiss.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Got it. It has nothing to do with laws or national
>>>>>>>> policies! The people
>>>>>>>> in (say) Windsor, Ontario are a different species than
>>>>>>>> those in (say)
>>>>>>>> Detroit, Michigan. Their motivations, morals, reflexes
>>>>>>>> and behaviors are
>>>>>>>> all very, very different. And the people south of that
>>>>>>>> border can never,
>>>>>>>> ever be expected to stop trying to kill one another.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm learning so much here!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (Again, please note the sarcasm.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Be as sarcastic as you will but reality shows a very
>>>>>>> different
>>>>>>> picture:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Crime
>>>>>>> Offences / 100,000 population  Canada
>>>>>>> Offences / 100,000 population U.S.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   Rape
>>>>>>> Canada 1.69
>>>>>>> U.S. 27.31
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Assault
>>>>>>> Canada 150.81
>>>>>>> U.S. 246.84
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Incarcerated
>>>>>>> Canada 104
>>>>>>> U.S. 629
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And your explanation for the differences, please? Is it
>>>>>> genetics? Are Canadians (like Brits, Irish, French, Dutch
>>>>>> etc.) are born with some special law abiding gene that's
>>>>>> missing in Americans?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or is there a chance that a nation's policies and laws
>>>>>> actually affect citizens' behaviors?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Laws and policies are dynamic and (more or less) reflect the culture.
>>>>> Where there is significant conflict (i.e., Prohibition) the laws and/or
>>>>> policies change, not the culture.
>>>>>
>>>>> You may well argue that alcohol is an anomaly and you meant well
>>>>> understood crimes of long standing such as theft and robbery and that
>>>>> those are different. You'd be wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/new-yorks-no-bail-law-leaves-a-trail-of-violence/ar-BB1gmfaq
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/06/us/alvin-bragg-manhattan-district-attorney-crimes-prosecution/index.html
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.foxla.com/news/gascon-launches-diversion-program-for-minors-who-commit-felony-burglary-vehicle-theft-robbery
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-justice/commentary/meet-chesa-boudin-the-rogue-prosecutor-wreaking-havoc-san-francisco
>>>>
>>>> You seem to be rebutting an argument I haven't made.
>>>>
>>>> In any case, it seems neither you nor John had no explanation for the
>>>> differences (nor source) he's found for Canadian vs. U.S. crime stats.
>>>> You can't be suggesting it's because of the anecdotes and policy changes
>>>> you cited in those articles. None are more than two years old, and two
>>>> are only a few months old.
>>>>
>>>> Do you have an explanation for Canada's much better numbers? Is their
>>>> justice system really more strict and punitive than ours?
>>>>
>>>> I really don't know the answer. But I very much doubt the better numbers
>>>> are due to some inborn, genetic difference in the populations.
>>>
>>> You are getting more Tommy like every day. You have been using Canada
>>> versus the U.S. as justification for your claims about U.S. gun laws
>>> for months and now when you are shown that Canada is a far more law
>>> abiding country then the U.S, you rather adroitly slid right off that
>>> subject and now wonder about the difference in social make up of the
>>> two countries.
>>
>> We can discuss Canadian laws, practices and culture any way you want,
>> John. Just try to follow the discussion, please, without insults.
>>
>> Personally, I think Canadian gun laws have a direct bearing on their
>> relative absence of gun violence. I feel the same about the gun laws of
>> Britain, France, Netherlands, Ireland, etc. The U.S. absolutely is an
>> outlier among any nations that are even vaguely similar regarding
>> technology, economy and average prosperity.
>>
>> Your defense of U.S. gun policy is, apparently, "Canada has less rape
>> too" with the implication apparently being that Americans are inherently
>> much worse people.
>>
>> Is that not what you're implying? If so, please tell me what you DO mean.
>>
>> And if you believe Americans are inherently worse, can you not tell me
>> what makes them that way?
>
>
> Big (:-).
> Yup, just as Tom does you are changing the subject and now your
> initial comments about gun crimes has become a study of the social
> conduct of two countries.

On 2/26/2022 4:08 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 2/26/2022 4:42 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 2/26/2022 3:20 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 2/26/2022 12:05 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> On 2/26/2022 9:57 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>> On 2/26/2022 1:47 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 11:32:25 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 6:06 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 12:02:17 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 11:19 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 10:49 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 5:49:51 PM UTC-8,
>>>>>>>>>>> AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 6:44 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 12:27:31 -0500, Frank
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 9:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 7:57 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 8:31 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, of course I was ridiculing Franks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assertion, at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> least as I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understood him, that somehow one would be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or less,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stricken by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grief depending on the cause of death.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You're being totally unrealistic, in a foolish
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attempt to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pursue a nonsense argument.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Neither individuals nor society treat all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deaths
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as equal,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nor have identical feelings about all deaths.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death of an elderly person who has lived a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> full life is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one thing. Perhaps it is regrettable
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> depending on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conditions, but often people remark "Well, it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was time" or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something similar.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death from natural causes of a middle aged
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or younger
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person is generally treated as a bit more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regrettable. A
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar death of a child even more so.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> An accidental death of those people triggers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yet
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regret, and may lead to anger at how such a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing could be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> allowed to happen.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a person rightfully triggers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outrage and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> criminal prosecution.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a child, even more outrage.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The killing of 20 children sitting in school is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> considered
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> truly heinous. At least, by people who are not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avid fans of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the weapon used.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes I understand you and you're not wrong in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> principle but policy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> based
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on anomalies doesn't always work out well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/1927-bombing-remains-americas-deadliest-school-massacre-180963355/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A British-born engineer and colleague of mine in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 1970s used to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mock
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a slogan the NRA promoted in those days. He said
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "And when bombs are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outlawed, only outlaws will have bombs."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if today's pretend soldiers will use the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Second Amendment to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> call for free use and possession of bombs?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are slipping right down into the throes of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> silly ness.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your colleague's mocking comment is pretty
>>>>>>>>>>>>> silly as
>>>>>>>>>>>>> today, in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> U.S., several states with rather severe hand gun
>>>>>>>>>>>>> control laws are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> finding more and more being smuggled into the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> state. So it is a truism
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that when guns are outlawed only criminals will
>>>>>>>>>>>>> have guns.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You might try a google search on "gun+smuggle". I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> get 15,600,000
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "hits".
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/gun-trafficking-ring-ohio-camden-new-jersey-weapons-arrests/205248/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Out here in the actual world it's the same market
>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon
>>>>>>>>>>>> as dope. Prohibition or hyper regulatory tax
>>>>>>>>>>>> schemes
>>>>>>>>>>>> guarantee a higher profit to contraband.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> OK, you guys have convinced me! Laws never work, so
>>>>>>>>>>> we should outlaw
>>>>>>>>>>> all laws. Got it!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> (Since this is Usenet, I may have to say that was
>>>>>>>>>>> sarcasm.)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Suggestions welcome.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> OK:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Canadian laws.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> British laws.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> French laws.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Heck, Swiss laws. Lots of guns, but in "well regulated
>>>>>>>>> militias." And
>>>>>>>>> far, far less gun crime than the U.S.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Very few developed nations emulate the U.S.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Re Canadian laws...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I did a bit of research and Canada has a far lower
>>>>>>>> incident of violent
>>>>>>>> crime, i.e. law breaking, then the U.S.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Do you suppose that this is a matter of better laws or
>>>>>>>> is it a matter
>>>>>>>> of a more law abiding people?
>>>>>>>> And, I suspect the same applies to The British, and the
>>>>>>>> Swiss.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Got it. It has nothing to do with laws or national
>>>>>>> policies! The people
>>>>>>> in (say) Windsor, Ontario are a different species than
>>>>>>> those in (say)
>>>>>>> Detroit, Michigan. Their motivations, morals, reflexes
>>>>>>> and behaviors are
>>>>>>> all very, very different. And the people south of that
>>>>>>> border can never,
>>>>>>> ever be expected to stop trying to kill one another.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm learning so much here!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (Again, please note the sarcasm.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Be as sarcastic as you will but reality shows a very
>>>>>> different
>>>>>> picture:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Crime
>>>>>> Offences / 100,000 population Canada
>>>>>> Offences / 100,000 population U.S.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Rape
>>>>>> Canada 1.69
>>>>>> U.S. 27.31
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Assault
>>>>>> Canada 150.81
>>>>>> U.S. 246.84
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Incarcerated
>>>>>> Canada 104
>>>>>> U.S. 629
>>>>>
>>>>> And your explanation for the differences, please? Is it
>>>>> genetics? Are Canadians (like Brits, Irish, French, Dutch
>>>>> etc.) are born with some special law abiding gene that's
>>>>> missing in Americans?
>>>>>
>>>>> Or is there a chance that a nation's policies and laws
>>>>> actually affect citizens' behaviors?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Laws and policies are dynamic and (more or less) reflect
>>>> the culture. Where there is significant conflict (i.e.,
>>>> Prohibition) the laws and/or policies change, not the
>>>> culture.
>>>>
>>>> You may well argue that alcohol is an anomaly and you
>>>> meant well understood crimes of long standing such as
>>>> theft and robbery and that those are different. You'd be
>>>> wrong.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/new-yorks-no-bail-law-leaves-a-trail-of-violence/ar-BB1gmfaq
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/06/us/alvin-bragg-manhattan-district-attorney-crimes-prosecution/index.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.foxla.com/news/gascon-launches-diversion-program-for-minors-who-commit-felony-burglary-vehicle-theft-robbery
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-justice/commentary/meet-chesa-boudin-the-rogue-prosecutor-wreaking-havoc-san-francisco
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You seem to be rebutting an argument I haven't made.
>>>
>>> In any case, it seems neither you nor John had no
>>> explanation for the differences (nor source) he's found for
>>> Canadian vs. U.S. crime stats. You can't be suggesting it's
>>> because of the anecdotes and policy changes you cited in
>>> those articles. None are more than two years old, and two
>>> are only a few months old.
>>>
>>> Do you have an explanation for Canada's much better numbers?
>>> Is their justice system really more strict and punitive than
>>> ours?
>>>
>>> I really don't know the answer. But I very much doubt the
>>> better numbers are due to some inborn, genetic difference in
>>> the populations.
>>>
>>
>> Sorry if I was not more clear.
>>
>> I meant that rather than laws changing the culture,
>> cultural changes are reflected in different (or, 2022,
>> deficient, lacking, dysfunctional) policies and laws.
>>
>> We are a much more violent nation than Canada. This was
>> not _caused_ by repealing death penalty statues nor by
>> redefining 'felony' or what have you.
>>
>> Opening the borders in direct conflict with a host of long
>> standing Federal statutes, by ukase, probably has
>> increased violence but that's like peeing in the ocean.
>
> But again, "We are a much more violent nation than Canada"
> is not an answer to my question.
>
> Which was "And your explanation for the differences, please?
> Is it genetics?"
>
> If not that, then what?
>

On 2/26/2022 6:07 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 2/26/2022 5:59 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 10:57:52 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/26/2022 1:47 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 11:32:25 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2/24/2022 6:06 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>> On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 12:02:17 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 11:19 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 10:49 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 5:49:51 PM
>>>>>>>>> UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 6:44 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 12:27:31 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 9:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 7:57 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 8:31 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, of course I was ridiculing Franks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assertion, at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> least as I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understood him, that somehow one would be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more, or less,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stricken by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grief depending on the cause of death.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You're being totally unrealistic, in a foolish
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attempt to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pursue a nonsense argument.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Neither individuals nor society treat all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deaths as equal,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nor have identical feelings about all deaths.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death of an elderly person who has lived a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> full life is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one thing. Perhaps it is regrettable depending on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conditions, but often people remark "Well, it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was time" or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something similar.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death from natural causes of a middle aged
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or younger
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person is generally treated as a bit more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regrettable. A
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar death of a child even more so.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> An accidental death of those people triggers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yet more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regret, and may lead to anger at how such a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing could be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> allowed to happen.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a person rightfully triggers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outrage and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> criminal prosecution.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a child, even more outrage.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The killing of 20 children sitting in school
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is considered
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> truly heinous. At least, by people who are not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avid fans of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the weapon used.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes I understand you and you're not wrong in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> principle but policy
>>>>>>>>>>>>> based
>>>>>>>>>>>>> on anomalies doesn't always work out well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/1927-bombing-remains-americas-deadliest-school-massacre-180963355/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> A British-born engineer and colleague of mine in
>>>>>>>>>>>> the 1970s used to
>>>>>>>>>>>> mock
>>>>>>>>>>>> a slogan the NRA promoted in those days. He said
>>>>>>>>>>>> "And when bombs are
>>>>>>>>>>>> outlawed, only outlaws will have bombs."
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if today's pretend soldiers will use
>>>>>>>>>>>> the Second Amendment to
>>>>>>>>>>>> call for free use and possession of bombs?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You are slipping right down into the throes of
>>>>>>>>>>> silly ness.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Your colleague's mocking comment is pretty silly
>>>>>>>>>>> as today, in the
>>>>>>>>>>> U.S., several states with rather severe hand gun
>>>>>>>>>>> control laws are
>>>>>>>>>>> finding more and more being smuggled into the
>>>>>>>>>>> state. So it is a truism
>>>>>>>>>>> that when guns are outlawed only criminals will
>>>>>>>>>>> have guns.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You might try a google search on "gun+smuggle". I
>>>>>>>>>>> get 15,600,000
>>>>>>>>>>> "hits".
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/gun-trafficking-ring-ohio-camden-new-jersey-weapons-arrests/205248/
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Out here in the actual world it's the same market
>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon
>>>>>>>>>> as dope. Prohibition or hyper regulatory tax schemes
>>>>>>>>>> guarantee a higher profit to contraband.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> OK, you guys have convinced me! Laws never work, so
>>>>>>>>> we should outlaw
>>>>>>>>> all laws. Got it!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (Since this is Usenet, I may have to say that was
>>>>>>>>> sarcasm.)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Suggestions welcome.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> OK:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Canadian laws.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> British laws.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> French laws.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Heck, Swiss laws. Lots of guns, but in "well
>>>>>>> regulated militias." And
>>>>>>> far, far less gun crime than the U.S.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Very few developed nations emulate the U.S.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Re Canadian laws...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I did a bit of research and Canada has a far lower
>>>>>> incident of violent
>>>>>> crime, i.e. law breaking, then the U.S.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do you suppose that this is a matter of better laws or
>>>>>> is it a matter
>>>>>> of a more law abiding people?
>>>>>> And, I suspect the same applies to The British, and
>>>>>> the Swiss.
>>>>>
>>>>> Got it. It has nothing to do with laws or national
>>>>> policies! The people
>>>>> in (say) Windsor, Ontario are a different species than
>>>>> those in (say)
>>>>> Detroit, Michigan. Their motivations, morals, reflexes
>>>>> and behaviors are
>>>>> all very, very different. And the people south of that
>>>>> border can never,
>>>>> ever be expected to stop trying to kill one another.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm learning so much here!
>>>>>
>>>>> (Again, please note the sarcasm.)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Be as sarcastic as you will but reality shows a very
>>>> different
>>>> picture:
>>>>
>>>> Crime
>>>> Offences / 100,000 population Canada
>>>> Offences / 100,000 population U.S.
>>>>
>>>> Rape
>>>> Canada 1.69
>>>> U.S. 27.31
>>>>
>>>> Assault
>>>> Canada 150.81
>>>> U.S. 246.84
>>>>
>>>> Incarcerated
>>>> Canada 104
>>>> U.S. 629
>>>
>>> And your explanation for the differences, please? Is it
>>> genetics? Are
>>> Canadians (like Brits, Irish, French, Dutch etc.) are
>>> born with some
>>> special law abiding gene that's missing in Americans?
>>>
>>> Or is there a chance that a nation's policies and laws
>>> actually affect
>>> citizens' behaviors?
>>
>> Oh, you mean what you've described as stringent gun laws
>> reduce rape?
>> Or limit the number of criminals in the society, as
>> indicated by the
>> numbers in prison?
>
> I notice you're not giving an explanation for the
> differences, John. Not even a guess.
>

On 2/27/2022 2:28 AM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 3:32:24 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 9:05:17 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 2/26/2022 9:57 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>> On 2/26/2022 1:47 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 11:32:25 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 6:06 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>> On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 12:02:17 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 11:19 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 10:49 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 5:49:51 PM UTC-8,
>>>>>>>>>> AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 6:44 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 12:27:31 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 9:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 7:57 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 8:31 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, of course I was ridiculing Franks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assertion, at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> least as I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understood him, that somehow one would be more,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or less,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stricken by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grief depending on the cause of death.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You're being totally unrealistic, in a foolish
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attempt to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pursue a nonsense argument.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Neither individuals nor society treat all deaths
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as equal,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nor have identical feelings about all deaths.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death of an elderly person who has lived a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> full life is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one thing. Perhaps it is regrettable depending on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conditions, but often people remark "Well, it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was time" or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something similar.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death from natural causes of a middle aged
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or younger
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person is generally treated as a bit more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regrettable. A
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar death of a child even more so.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> An accidental death of those people triggers yet
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regret, and may lead to anger at how such a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing could be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> allowed to happen.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a person rightfully triggers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outrage and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> criminal prosecution.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a child, even more outrage.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The killing of 20 children sitting in school is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> considered
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> truly heinous. At least, by people who are not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avid fans of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the weapon used.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes I understand you and you're not wrong in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> principle but policy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> based
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on anomalies doesn't always work out well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/1927-bombing-remains-americas-deadliest-school-massacre-180963355/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> A British-born engineer and colleague of mine in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 1970s used to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mock
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a slogan the NRA promoted in those days. He said
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "And when bombs are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> outlawed, only outlaws will have bombs."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if today's pretend soldiers will use the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Second Amendment to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> call for free use and possession of bombs?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You are slipping right down into the throes of
>>>>>>>>>>>> silly ness.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Your colleague's mocking comment is pretty silly as
>>>>>>>>>>>> today, in the
>>>>>>>>>>>> U.S., several states with rather severe hand gun
>>>>>>>>>>>> control laws are
>>>>>>>>>>>> finding more and more being smuggled into the
>>>>>>>>>>>> state. So it is a truism
>>>>>>>>>>>> that when guns are outlawed only criminals will
>>>>>>>>>>>> have guns.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You might try a google search on "gun+smuggle". I
>>>>>>>>>>>> get 15,600,000
>>>>>>>>>>>> "hits".
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/gun-trafficking-ring-ohio-camden-new-jersey-weapons-arrests/205248/
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Out here in the actual world it's the same market
>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon
>>>>>>>>>>> as dope. Prohibition or hyper regulatory tax schemes
>>>>>>>>>>> guarantee a higher profit to contraband.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> OK, you guys have convinced me! Laws never work, so
>>>>>>>>>> we should outlaw
>>>>>>>>>> all laws. Got it!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> (Since this is Usenet, I may have to say that was
>>>>>>>>>> sarcasm.)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Suggestions welcome.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> OK:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Canadian laws.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> British laws.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> French laws.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Heck, Swiss laws. Lots of guns, but in "well regulated
>>>>>>>> militias." And
>>>>>>>> far, far less gun crime than the U.S.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Very few developed nations emulate the U.S.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Re Canadian laws...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I did a bit of research and Canada has a far lower
>>>>>>> incident of violent
>>>>>>> crime, i.e. law breaking, then the U.S.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Do you suppose that this is a matter of better laws or
>>>>>>> is it a matter
>>>>>>> of a more law abiding people?
>>>>>>> And, I suspect the same applies to The British, and the
>>>>>>> Swiss.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Got it. It has nothing to do with laws or national
>>>>>> policies! The people
>>>>>> in (say) Windsor, Ontario are a different species than
>>>>>> those in (say)
>>>>>> Detroit, Michigan. Their motivations, morals, reflexes
>>>>>> and behaviors are
>>>>>> all very, very different. And the people south of that
>>>>>> border can never,
>>>>>> ever be expected to stop trying to kill one another.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm learning so much here!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (Again, please note the sarcasm.)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Be as sarcastic as you will but reality shows a very
>>>>> different
>>>>> picture:
>>>>>
>>>>> Crime
>>>>> Offences / 100,000 population Canada
>>>>> Offences / 100,000 population U.S.
>>>>>
>>>>> Rape
>>>>> Canada 1.69
>>>>> U.S. 27.31
>>>>>
>>>>> Assault
>>>>> Canada 150.81
>>>>> U.S. 246.84
>>>>>
>>>>> Incarcerated
>>>>> Canada 104
>>>>> U.S. 629
>>>>
>>>> And your explanation for the differences, please? Is it
>>>> genetics? Are Canadians (like Brits, Irish, French, Dutch
>>>> etc.) are born with some special law abiding gene that's
>>>> missing in Americans?
>>>>
>>>> Or is there a chance that a nation's policies and laws
>>>> actually affect citizens' behaviors?
>>>>
>>> Laws and policies are dynamic and (more or less) reflect the
>>> culture. Where there is significant conflict (i.e.,
>>> Prohibition) the laws and/or policies change, not the culture.
>>>
>>> You may well argue that alcohol is an anomaly and you meant
>>> well understood crimes of long standing such as theft and
>>> robbery and that those are different. You'd be wrong.
>>>
>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/new-yorks-no-bail-law-leaves-a-trail-of-violence/ar-BB1gmfaq
>>>
>>> https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/06/us/alvin-bragg-manhattan-district-attorney-crimes-prosecution/index.html
>>>
>>> https://www.foxla.com/news/gascon-launches-diversion-program-for-minors-who-commit-felony-burglary-vehicle-theft-robbery
>>>
>>> https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-justice/commentary/meet-chesa-boudin-the-rogue-prosecutor-wreaking-havoc-san-francisco
>> You need only look at the massive increase in the most violent crimes under the Democrats to see that they have played directly into the hands of the criminals.
>
> https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/10/27/what-we-know-about-the-increase-in-u-s-murders-in-2020/ft_21-010-19_murderrate_3a/
> Shows murders from about 1968 to 2020. Up with Nixon, down a bit with Ford, then up with Carter, then down and up with Reagan and Bush1, then down down down with Clinton, Bush2, Obama first term, then up Obama second term and UP UP UP at the end of Trump term. Trump had the HIGHEST increase in history for murders during his final year.
>

On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 9:17:29 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 2/27/2022 2:28 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 3:32:24 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 9:05:17 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >>> On 2/26/2022 9:57 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>>> On 2/26/2022 1:47 AM, John B. wrote:
> >>>>> On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 11:32:25 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> >>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On 2/24/2022 6:06 PM, John B. wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 12:02:17 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> >>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 11:19 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 10:49 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 5:49:51 PM UTC-8,
> >>>>>>>>>> AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 6:44 PM, John B. wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 12:27:31 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> >>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 9:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 7:57 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 8:31 PM, John B. wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, of course I was ridiculing Franks
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assertion, at
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> least as I
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understood him, that somehow one would be more,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or less,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stricken by
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grief depending on the cause of death.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You're being totally unrealistic, in a foolish
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attempt to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pursue a nonsense argument.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Neither individuals nor society treat all deaths
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as equal,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nor have identical feelings about all deaths.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death of an elderly person who has lived a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> full life is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one thing. Perhaps it is regrettable depending on
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conditions, but often people remark "Well, it
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was time" or
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something similar.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death from natural causes of a middle aged
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or younger
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person is generally treated as a bit more
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regrettable. A
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar death of a child even more so.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> An accidental death of those people triggers yet
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regret, and may lead to anger at how such a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing could be
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> allowed to happen.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a person rightfully triggers
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outrage and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> criminal prosecution.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a child, even more outrage.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The killing of 20 children sitting in school is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> considered
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> truly heinous. At least, by people who are not
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avid fans of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the weapon used.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes I understand you and you're not wrong in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> principle but policy
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> based
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> on anomalies doesn't always work out well.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/1927-bombing-remains-americas-deadliest-school-massacre-180963355/
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> A British-born engineer and colleague of mine in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the 1970s used to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> mock
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> a slogan the NRA promoted in those days. He said
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> "And when bombs are
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> outlawed, only outlaws will have bombs."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if today's pretend soldiers will use the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Second Amendment to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> call for free use and possession of bombs?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> You are slipping right down into the throes of
> >>>>>>>>>>>> silly ness.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Your colleague's mocking comment is pretty silly as
> >>>>>>>>>>>> today, in the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> U.S., several states with rather severe hand gun
> >>>>>>>>>>>> control laws are
> >>>>>>>>>>>> finding more and more being smuggled into the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> state. So it is a truism
> >>>>>>>>>>>> that when guns are outlawed only criminals will
> >>>>>>>>>>>> have guns.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> You might try a google search on "gun+smuggle". I
> >>>>>>>>>>>> get 15,600,000
> >>>>>>>>>>>> "hits".
> >>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/gun-trafficking-ring-ohio-camden-new-jersey-weapons-arrests/205248/
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> +1
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Out here in the actual world it's the same market
> >>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon
> >>>>>>>>>>> as dope. Prohibition or hyper regulatory tax schemes
> >>>>>>>>>>> guarantee a higher profit to contraband.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> OK, you guys have convinced me! Laws never work, so
> >>>>>>>>>> we should outlaw
> >>>>>>>>>> all laws. Got it!
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> (Since this is Usenet, I may have to say that was
> >>>>>>>>>> sarcasm.)
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Suggestions welcome.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> OK:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Canadian laws.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> British laws.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> French laws.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Heck, Swiss laws. Lots of guns, but in "well regulated
> >>>>>>>> militias." And
> >>>>>>>> far, far less gun crime than the U.S.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Very few developed nations emulate the U.S.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Re Canadian laws...
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I did a bit of research and Canada has a far lower
> >>>>>>> incident of violent
> >>>>>>> crime, i.e. law breaking, then the U.S.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Do you suppose that this is a matter of better laws or
> >>>>>>> is it a matter
> >>>>>>> of a more law abiding people?
> >>>>>>> And, I suspect the same applies to The British, and the
> >>>>>>> Swiss.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Got it. It has nothing to do with laws or national
> >>>>>> policies! The people
> >>>>>> in (say) Windsor, Ontario are a different species than
> >>>>>> those in (say)
> >>>>>> Detroit, Michigan. Their motivations, morals, reflexes
> >>>>>> and behaviors are
> >>>>>> all very, very different. And the people south of that
> >>>>>> border can never,
> >>>>>> ever be expected to stop trying to kill one another.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'm learning so much here!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> (Again, please note the sarcasm.)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Be as sarcastic as you will but reality shows a very
> >>>>> different
> >>>>> picture:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Crime
> >>>>> Offences / 100,000 population Canada
> >>>>> Offences / 100,000 population U.S.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Rape
> >>>>> Canada 1.69
> >>>>> U.S. 27.31
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Assault
> >>>>> Canada 150.81
> >>>>> U.S. 246.84
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Incarcerated
> >>>>> Canada 104
> >>>>> U.S. 629
> >>>>
> >>>> And your explanation for the differences, please? Is it
> >>>> genetics? Are Canadians (like Brits, Irish, French, Dutch
> >>>> etc.) are born with some special law abiding gene that's
> >>>> missing in Americans?
> >>>>
> >>>> Or is there a chance that a nation's policies and laws
> >>>> actually affect citizens' behaviors?
> >>>>
> >>> Laws and policies are dynamic and (more or less) reflect the
> >>> culture. Where there is significant conflict (i.e.,
> >>> Prohibition) the laws and/or policies change, not the culture.
> >>>
> >>> You may well argue that alcohol is an anomaly and you meant
> >>> well understood crimes of long standing such as theft and
> >>> robbery and that those are different. You'd be wrong.
> >>>
> >>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/new-yorks-no-bail-law-leaves-a-trail-of-violence/ar-BB1gmfaq
> >>>
> >>> https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/06/us/alvin-bragg-manhattan-district-attorney-crimes-prosecution/index.html
> >>>
> >>> https://www.foxla.com/news/gascon-launches-diversion-program-for-minors-who-commit-felony-burglary-vehicle-theft-robbery
> >>>
> >>> https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-justice/commentary/meet-chesa-boudin-the-rogue-prosecutor-wreaking-havoc-san-francisco
> >> You need only look at the massive increase in the most violent crimes under the Democrats to see that they have played directly into the hands of the criminals.
> >
> > https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/10/27/what-we-know-about-the-increase-in-u-s-murders-in-2020/ft_21-010-19_murderrate_3a/
> > Shows murders from about 1968 to 2020. Up with Nixon, down a bit with Ford, then up with Carter, then down and up with Reagan and Bush1, then down down down with Clinton, Bush2, Obama first term, then up Obama second term and UP UP UP at the end of Trump term. Trump had the HIGHEST increase in history for murders during his final year.
> >
> Yes that's true but you miss the state/local differences
> which are critical because Federal murder prosecution is
> extremely rare:
> https://qz.com/162289/217-years-of-homicide-in-new-york/
>
>
> Typically (shows local differences)
>
> https://static01.nyt.com/images/2016/09/08/us/us-murder-rates-1473385452240/us-murder-rates-1473385452240-videoSixteenByNine3000.png?year=2016&h=1687&w=3000&sig=0xa5fc7ca9d975cc8f21d29a25deecab99&tw=1
>
> Can't find comparative charts through 2021, a year in which
> many cities gave up on law enforcement (or actively promoted
> arson riot and looting) but here's a resource through 2019:
>
> https://www.disastercenter.com/crime/nycrime.htm

On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 8:39:08 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 2/26/2022 4:08 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 2/26/2022 4:42 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 2/26/2022 3:20 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>> On 2/26/2022 12:05 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>> On 2/26/2022 9:57 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>>>> On 2/26/2022 1:47 AM, John B. wrote:
> >>>>>> On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 11:32:25 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> >>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 6:06 PM, John B. wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 12:02:17 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> >>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 11:19 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 10:49 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 5:49:51 PM UTC-8,
> >>>>>>>>>>> AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 6:44 PM, John B. wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 12:27:31 -0500, Frank
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Krygowski
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 9:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 7:57 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 8:31 PM, John B. wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, of course I was ridiculing Franks
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assertion, at
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> least as I
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understood him, that somehow one would be
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or less,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stricken by
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grief depending on the cause of death.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You're being totally unrealistic, in a foolish
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attempt to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pursue a nonsense argument.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Neither individuals nor society treat all
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deaths
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as equal,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nor have identical feelings about all deaths.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death of an elderly person who has lived a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> full life is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one thing. Perhaps it is regrettable
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> depending on
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conditions, but often people remark "Well, it
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was time" or
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something similar.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death from natural causes of a middle aged
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or younger
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person is generally treated as a bit more
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regrettable. A
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar death of a child even more so.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> An accidental death of those people triggers
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yet
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regret, and may lead to anger at how such a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing could be
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> allowed to happen.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a person rightfully triggers
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outrage and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> criminal prosecution.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a child, even more outrage.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The killing of 20 children sitting in school is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> considered
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> truly heinous. At least, by people who are not
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avid fans of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the weapon used.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes I understand you and you're not wrong in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> principle but policy
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> based
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on anomalies doesn't always work out well.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/1927-bombing-remains-americas-deadliest-school-massacre-180963355/
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> A British-born engineer and colleague of mine in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 1970s used to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> mock
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a slogan the NRA promoted in those days. He said
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "And when bombs are
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> outlawed, only outlaws will have bombs."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if today's pretend soldiers will use the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Second Amendment to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> call for free use and possession of bombs?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> You are slipping right down into the throes of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> silly ness.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Your colleague's mocking comment is pretty
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> silly as
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> today, in the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> U.S., several states with rather severe hand gun
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> control laws are
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> finding more and more being smuggled into the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> state. So it is a truism
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> that when guns are outlawed only criminals will
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> have guns.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> You might try a google search on "gun+smuggle". I
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> get 15,600,000
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> "hits".
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/gun-trafficking-ring-ohio-camden-new-jersey-weapons-arrests/205248/
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> +1
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Out here in the actual world it's the same market
> >>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon
> >>>>>>>>>>>> as dope. Prohibition or hyper regulatory tax
> >>>>>>>>>>>> schemes
> >>>>>>>>>>>> guarantee a higher profit to contraband.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> OK, you guys have convinced me! Laws never work, so
> >>>>>>>>>>> we should outlaw
> >>>>>>>>>>> all laws. Got it!
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> (Since this is Usenet, I may have to say that was
> >>>>>>>>>>> sarcasm.)
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Suggestions welcome.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> OK:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Canadian laws.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> British laws.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> French laws.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Heck, Swiss laws. Lots of guns, but in "well regulated
> >>>>>>>>> militias." And
> >>>>>>>>> far, far less gun crime than the U.S.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Very few developed nations emulate the U.S.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Re Canadian laws...
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I did a bit of research and Canada has a far lower
> >>>>>>>> incident of violent
> >>>>>>>> crime, i.e. law breaking, then the U.S.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Do you suppose that this is a matter of better laws or
> >>>>>>>> is it a matter
> >>>>>>>> of a more law abiding people?
> >>>>>>>> And, I suspect the same applies to The British, and the
> >>>>>>>> Swiss.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Got it. It has nothing to do with laws or national
> >>>>>>> policies! The people
> >>>>>>> in (say) Windsor, Ontario are a different species than
> >>>>>>> those in (say)
> >>>>>>> Detroit, Michigan. Their motivations, morals, reflexes
> >>>>>>> and behaviors are
> >>>>>>> all very, very different. And the people south of that
> >>>>>>> border can never,
> >>>>>>> ever be expected to stop trying to kill one another.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I'm learning so much here!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> (Again, please note the sarcasm.)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Be as sarcastic as you will but reality shows a very
> >>>>>> different
> >>>>>> picture:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Crime
> >>>>>> Offences / 100,000 population Canada
> >>>>>> Offences / 100,000 population U.S.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>  Rape
> >>>>>> Canada 1.69
> >>>>>> U.S. 27.31
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Assault
> >>>>>> Canada 150.81
> >>>>>> U.S. 246.84
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Incarcerated
> >>>>>> Canada 104
> >>>>>> U.S. 629
> >>>>>
> >>>>> And your explanation for the differences, please? Is it
> >>>>> genetics? Are Canadians (like Brits, Irish, French, Dutch
> >>>>> etc.) are born with some special law abiding gene that's
> >>>>> missing in Americans?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Or is there a chance that a nation's policies and laws
> >>>>> actually affect citizens' behaviors?
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Laws and policies are dynamic and (more or less) reflect
> >>>> the culture. Where there is significant conflict (i.e.,
> >>>> Prohibition) the laws and/or policies change, not the
> >>>> culture.
> >>>>
> >>>> You may well argue that alcohol is an anomaly and you
> >>>> meant well understood crimes of long standing such as
> >>>> theft and robbery and that those are different. You'd be
> >>>> wrong.
> >>>>
> >>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/new-yorks-no-bail-law-leaves-a-trail-of-violence/ar-BB1gmfaq
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/06/us/alvin-bragg-manhattan-district-attorney-crimes-prosecution/index.html
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> https://www.foxla.com/news/gascon-launches-diversion-program-for-minors-who-commit-felony-burglary-vehicle-theft-robbery
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-justice/commentary/meet-chesa-boudin-the-rogue-prosecutor-wreaking-havoc-san-francisco
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> You seem to be rebutting an argument I haven't made.
> >>>
> >>> In any case, it seems neither you nor John had no
> >>> explanation for the differences (nor source) he's found for
> >>> Canadian vs. U.S. crime stats. You can't be suggesting it's
> >>> because of the anecdotes and policy changes you cited in
> >>> those articles. None are more than two years old, and two
> >>> are only a few months old.
> >>>
> >>> Do you have an explanation for Canada's much better numbers?
> >>> Is their justice system really more strict and punitive than
> >>> ours?
> >>>
> >>> I really don't know the answer. But I very much doubt the
> >>> better numbers are due to some inborn, genetic difference in
> >>> the populations.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Sorry if I was not more clear.
> >>
> >> I meant that rather than laws changing the culture,
> >> cultural changes are reflected in different (or, 2022,
> >> deficient, lacking, dysfunctional) policies and laws.
> >>
> >> We are a much more violent nation than Canada. This was
> >> not _caused_ by repealing death penalty statues nor by
> >> redefining 'felony' or what have you.
> >>
> >> Opening the borders in direct conflict with a host of long
> >> standing Federal statutes, by ukase, probably has
> >> increased violence but that's like peeing in the ocean.
> >
> > But again, "We are a much more violent nation than Canada"
> > is not an answer to my question.
> >
> > Which was "And your explanation for the differences, please?
> > Is it genetics?"
> >
> > If not that, then what?
> >
> I don't know and simple answers will not be found.
>
> Many serious people have interesting analyses. Thomas Sowell
> for example has written extensively on the link between
> Scots-Irish lower class immigration to the central and
> southern States (after New England was settled) and the
> follow on effects of their culture on the nearby black
> population in terms of cultural attitudes and behaviors.
>
> And lest my comments be misunderstood, when Mr Kunich notes
> (correctly if perhaps not well composed) that black men are
> 7% of USA but 50% of homicide victims and of murderers where
> race is known, this has no meaning for the greater bulk of
> normal black Americans with whom we live, work and date. As
> with white or Hondurans any group, a very small number of
> feral criminals account for most crime and as criminology
> understood in the early 1990s removing a few dozen guys from
> a neighborhood will and has dramatically reduced crime. New
> York is the classic case but not different from other
> experiences except in volume.
>
> Back to your prior comment, the elected officials linked
> above each ran specifically on _not_ jailing criminals. And
> were elected. Enough voters embraced a vision of societal
> collapse to vote them in or, as I noted, laws and policies
> follow culture.
>
> I'm more than concerned, I'm upset. In the local instance I
> sold my house and moved my business out of a county which
> has fallen apart by treating career criminals as lost
> wayward souls if not an endangered species requiring
> coddling on the public dime at great expense. The results
> are not pretty but hey I'm a minority now.

On 2/27/2022 11:47 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 9:17:29 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 2/27/2022 2:28 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 3:32:24 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 9:05:17 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>> On 2/26/2022 9:57 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>> On 2/26/2022 1:47 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>> On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 11:32:25 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 6:06 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 12:02:17 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 11:19 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 10:49 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 5:49:51 PM UTC-8,
>>>>>>>>>>>> AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 6:44 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 12:27:31 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 9:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 7:57 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 8:31 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, of course I was ridiculing Franks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assertion, at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> least as I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understood him, that somehow one would be more,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or less,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stricken by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grief depending on the cause of death.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You're being totally unrealistic, in a foolish
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attempt to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pursue a nonsense argument.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Neither individuals nor society treat all deaths
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as equal,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nor have identical feelings about all deaths.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death of an elderly person who has lived a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> full life is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one thing. Perhaps it is regrettable depending on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conditions, but often people remark "Well, it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was time" or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something similar.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death from natural causes of a middle aged
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or younger
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person is generally treated as a bit more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regrettable. A
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar death of a child even more so.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> An accidental death of those people triggers yet
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regret, and may lead to anger at how such a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing could be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> allowed to happen.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a person rightfully triggers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outrage and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> criminal prosecution.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a child, even more outrage.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The killing of 20 children sitting in school is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> considered
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> truly heinous. At least, by people who are not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avid fans of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the weapon used.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes I understand you and you're not wrong in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> principle but policy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> based
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on anomalies doesn't always work out well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/1927-bombing-remains-americas-deadliest-school-massacre-180963355/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A British-born engineer and colleague of mine in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 1970s used to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mock
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a slogan the NRA promoted in those days. He said
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "And when bombs are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outlawed, only outlaws will have bombs."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if today's pretend soldiers will use the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Second Amendment to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> call for free use and possession of bombs?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are slipping right down into the throes of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> silly ness.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your colleague's mocking comment is pretty silly as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> today, in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> U.S., several states with rather severe hand gun
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> control laws are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finding more and more being smuggled into the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> state. So it is a truism
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that when guns are outlawed only criminals will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have guns.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You might try a google search on "gun+smuggle". I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get 15,600,000
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "hits".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/gun-trafficking-ring-ohio-camden-new-jersey-weapons-arrests/205248/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Out here in the actual world it's the same market
>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon
>>>>>>>>>>>>> as dope. Prohibition or hyper regulatory tax schemes
>>>>>>>>>>>>> guarantee a higher profit to contraband.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> OK, you guys have convinced me! Laws never work, so
>>>>>>>>>>>> we should outlaw
>>>>>>>>>>>> all laws. Got it!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> (Since this is Usenet, I may have to say that was
>>>>>>>>>>>> sarcasm.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Suggestions welcome.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> OK:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Canadian laws.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> British laws.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> French laws.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Heck, Swiss laws. Lots of guns, but in "well regulated
>>>>>>>>>> militias." And
>>>>>>>>>> far, far less gun crime than the U.S.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Very few developed nations emulate the U.S.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Re Canadian laws...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I did a bit of research and Canada has a far lower
>>>>>>>>> incident of violent
>>>>>>>>> crime, i.e. law breaking, then the U.S.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Do you suppose that this is a matter of better laws or
>>>>>>>>> is it a matter
>>>>>>>>> of a more law abiding people?
>>>>>>>>> And, I suspect the same applies to The British, and the
>>>>>>>>> Swiss.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Got it. It has nothing to do with laws or national
>>>>>>>> policies! The people
>>>>>>>> in (say) Windsor, Ontario are a different species than
>>>>>>>> those in (say)
>>>>>>>> Detroit, Michigan. Their motivations, morals, reflexes
>>>>>>>> and behaviors are
>>>>>>>> all very, very different. And the people south of that
>>>>>>>> border can never,
>>>>>>>> ever be expected to stop trying to kill one another.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm learning so much here!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (Again, please note the sarcasm.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Be as sarcastic as you will but reality shows a very
>>>>>>> different
>>>>>>> picture:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Crime
>>>>>>> Offences / 100,000 population Canada
>>>>>>> Offences / 100,000 population U.S.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Rape
>>>>>>> Canada 1.69
>>>>>>> U.S. 27.31
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Assault
>>>>>>> Canada 150.81
>>>>>>> U.S. 246.84
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Incarcerated
>>>>>>> Canada 104
>>>>>>> U.S. 629
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And your explanation for the differences, please? Is it
>>>>>> genetics? Are Canadians (like Brits, Irish, French, Dutch
>>>>>> etc.) are born with some special law abiding gene that's
>>>>>> missing in Americans?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or is there a chance that a nation's policies and laws
>>>>>> actually affect citizens' behaviors?
>>>>>>
>>>>> Laws and policies are dynamic and (more or less) reflect the
>>>>> culture. Where there is significant conflict (i.e.,
>>>>> Prohibition) the laws and/or policies change, not the culture.
>>>>>
>>>>> You may well argue that alcohol is an anomaly and you meant
>>>>> well understood crimes of long standing such as theft and
>>>>> robbery and that those are different. You'd be wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/new-yorks-no-bail-law-leaves-a-trail-of-violence/ar-BB1gmfaq
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/06/us/alvin-bragg-manhattan-district-attorney-crimes-prosecution/index.html
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.foxla.com/news/gascon-launches-diversion-program-for-minors-who-commit-felony-burglary-vehicle-theft-robbery
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-justice/commentary/meet-chesa-boudin-the-rogue-prosecutor-wreaking-havoc-san-francisco
>>>> You need only look at the massive increase in the most violent crimes under the Democrats to see that they have played directly into the hands of the criminals.
>>>
>>> https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/10/27/what-we-know-about-the-increase-in-u-s-murders-in-2020/ft_21-010-19_murderrate_3a/
>>> Shows murders from about 1968 to 2020. Up with Nixon, down a bit with Ford, then up with Carter, then down and up with Reagan and Bush1, then down down down with Clinton, Bush2, Obama first term, then up Obama second term and UP UP UP at the end of Trump term. Trump had the HIGHEST increase in history for murders during his final year.
>>>
>> Yes that's true but you miss the state/local differences
>> which are critical because Federal murder prosecution is
>> extremely rare:
>> https://qz.com/162289/217-years-of-homicide-in-new-york/
>>
>>
>> Typically (shows local differences)
>>
>> https://static01.nyt.com/images/2016/09/08/us/us-murder-rates-1473385452240/us-murder-rates-1473385452240-videoSixteenByNine3000.png?year=2016&h=1687&w=3000&sig=0xa5fc7ca9d975cc8f21d29a25deecab99&tw=1
>>
>> Can't find comparative charts through 2021, a year in which
>> many cities gave up on law enforcement (or actively promoted
>> arson riot and looting) but here's a resource through 2019:
>>
>> https://www.disastercenter.com/crime/nycrime.htm
>
> Do you really believe those statistics? They are plainly being manipulated by using numbers per 100,000 rather than actual numbers. Exactly how much are they rounding off and in which direction? It is all BS if you ask me.
>

On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 11:47:10 AM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 9:17:29 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 2/27/2022 2:28 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 3:32:24 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 9:05:17 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> > >>> On 2/26/2022 9:57 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > >>>> On 2/26/2022 1:47 AM, John B. wrote:
> > >>>>> On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 11:32:25 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> > >>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> On 2/24/2022 6:06 PM, John B. wrote:
> > >>>>>>> On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 12:02:17 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> > >>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 11:19 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 10:49 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 5:49:51 PM UTC-8,
> > >>>>>>>>>> AMuzi wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 6:44 PM, John B. wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 12:27:31 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 9:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 7:57 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 8:31 PM, John B. wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, of course I was ridiculing Franks
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assertion, at
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> least as I
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understood him, that somehow one would be more,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or less,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stricken by
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grief depending on the cause of death.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You're being totally unrealistic, in a foolish
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attempt to
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pursue a nonsense argument.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Neither individuals nor society treat all deaths
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as equal,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nor have identical feelings about all deaths.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death of an elderly person who has lived a
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> full life is
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one thing. Perhaps it is regrettable depending on
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conditions, but often people remark "Well, it
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was time" or
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something similar.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death from natural causes of a middle aged
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or younger
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person is generally treated as a bit more
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regrettable. A
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar death of a child even more so.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> An accidental death of those people triggers yet
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regret, and may lead to anger at how such a
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing could be
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> allowed to happen.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a person rightfully triggers
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outrage and
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> criminal prosecution.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a child, even more outrage.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The killing of 20 children sitting in school is
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> considered
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> truly heinous. At least, by people who are not
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avid fans of
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the weapon used.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes I understand you and you're not wrong in
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> principle but policy
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> based
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> on anomalies doesn't always work out well.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/1927-bombing-remains-americas-deadliest-school-massacre-180963355/
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> A British-born engineer and colleague of mine in
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> the 1970s used to
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> mock
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> a slogan the NRA promoted in those days. He said
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> "And when bombs are
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> outlawed, only outlaws will have bombs."
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if today's pretend soldiers will use the
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Second Amendment to
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> call for free use and possession of bombs?
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> You are slipping right down into the throes of
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> silly ness.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Your colleague's mocking comment is pretty silly as
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> today, in the
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> U.S., several states with rather severe hand gun
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> control laws are
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> finding more and more being smuggled into the
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> state. So it is a truism
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> that when guns are outlawed only criminals will
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> have guns.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> You might try a google search on "gun+smuggle". I
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> get 15,600,000
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> "hits".
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/gun-trafficking-ring-ohio-camden-new-jersey-weapons-arrests/205248/
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> +1
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Out here in the actual world it's the same market
> > >>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon
> > >>>>>>>>>>> as dope. Prohibition or hyper regulatory tax schemes
> > >>>>>>>>>>> guarantee a higher profit to contraband.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> OK, you guys have convinced me! Laws never work, so
> > >>>>>>>>>> we should outlaw
> > >>>>>>>>>> all laws. Got it!
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> (Since this is Usenet, I may have to say that was
> > >>>>>>>>>> sarcasm.)
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Suggestions welcome.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> OK:
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Canadian laws.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> British laws.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> French laws.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Heck, Swiss laws. Lots of guns, but in "well regulated
> > >>>>>>>> militias." And
> > >>>>>>>> far, far less gun crime than the U.S.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Very few developed nations emulate the U.S.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Re Canadian laws...
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> I did a bit of research and Canada has a far lower
> > >>>>>>> incident of violent
> > >>>>>>> crime, i.e. law breaking, then the U.S.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Do you suppose that this is a matter of better laws or
> > >>>>>>> is it a matter
> > >>>>>>> of a more law abiding people?
> > >>>>>>> And, I suspect the same applies to The British, and the
> > >>>>>>> Swiss.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Got it. It has nothing to do with laws or national
> > >>>>>> policies! The people
> > >>>>>> in (say) Windsor, Ontario are a different species than
> > >>>>>> those in (say)
> > >>>>>> Detroit, Michigan. Their motivations, morals, reflexes
> > >>>>>> and behaviors are
> > >>>>>> all very, very different. And the people south of that
> > >>>>>> border can never,
> > >>>>>> ever be expected to stop trying to kill one another.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> I'm learning so much here!
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> (Again, please note the sarcasm.)
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Be as sarcastic as you will but reality shows a very
> > >>>>> different
> > >>>>> picture:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Crime
> > >>>>> Offences / 100,000 population Canada
> > >>>>> Offences / 100,000 population U.S.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Rape
> > >>>>> Canada 1.69
> > >>>>> U.S. 27.31
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Assault
> > >>>>> Canada 150.81
> > >>>>> U.S. 246.84
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Incarcerated
> > >>>>> Canada 104
> > >>>>> U.S. 629
> > >>>>
> > >>>> And your explanation for the differences, please? Is it
> > >>>> genetics? Are Canadians (like Brits, Irish, French, Dutch
> > >>>> etc.) are born with some special law abiding gene that's
> > >>>> missing in Americans?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Or is there a chance that a nation's policies and laws
> > >>>> actually affect citizens' behaviors?
> > >>>>
> > >>> Laws and policies are dynamic and (more or less) reflect the
> > >>> culture. Where there is significant conflict (i.e.,
> > >>> Prohibition) the laws and/or policies change, not the culture.
> > >>>
> > >>> You may well argue that alcohol is an anomaly and you meant
> > >>> well understood crimes of long standing such as theft and
> > >>> robbery and that those are different. You'd be wrong.
> > >>>
> > >>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/new-yorks-no-bail-law-leaves-a-trail-of-violence/ar-BB1gmfaq
> > >>>
> > >>> https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/06/us/alvin-bragg-manhattan-district-attorney-crimes-prosecution/index.html
> > >>>
> > >>> https://www.foxla.com/news/gascon-launches-diversion-program-for-minors-who-commit-felony-burglary-vehicle-theft-robbery
> > >>>
> > >>> https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-justice/commentary/meet-chesa-boudin-the-rogue-prosecutor-wreaking-havoc-san-francisco
> > >> You need only look at the massive increase in the most violent crimes under the Democrats to see that they have played directly into the hands of the criminals.
> > >
> > > https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/10/27/what-we-know-about-the-increase-in-u-s-murders-in-2020/ft_21-010-19_murderrate_3a/
> > > Shows murders from about 1968 to 2020. Up with Nixon, down a bit with Ford, then up with Carter, then down and up with Reagan and Bush1, then down down down with Clinton, Bush2, Obama first term, then up Obama second term and UP UP UP at the end of Trump term. Trump had the HIGHEST increase in history for murders during his final year.
> > >
> > Yes that's true but you miss the state/local differences
> > which are critical because Federal murder prosecution is
> > extremely rare:
> > https://qz.com/162289/217-years-of-homicide-in-new-york/
> >
> >
> > Typically (shows local differences)
> >
> > https://static01.nyt.com/images/2016/09/08/us/us-murder-rates-1473385452240/us-murder-rates-1473385452240-videoSixteenByNine3000.png?year=2016&h=1687&w=3000&sig=0xa5fc7ca9d975cc8f21d29a25deecab99&tw=1
> >
> > Can't find comparative charts through 2021, a year in which
> > many cities gave up on law enforcement (or actively promoted
> > arson riot and looting) but here's a resource through 2019:
> >
> > https://www.disastercenter.com/crime/nycrime.htm
> Do you really believe those statistics? They are plainly being manipulated by using numbers per 100,000 rather than actual numbers. Exactly how much are they rounding off and in which direction? It is all BS if you ask me.

On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 11:02:52 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 2/27/2022 11:47 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 9:17:29 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 2/27/2022 2:28 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 3:32:24 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 9:05:17 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>> On 2/26/2022 9:57 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>>>>> On 2/26/2022 1:47 AM, John B. wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 11:32:25 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> >>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 6:06 PM, John B. wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 12:02:17 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> >>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 11:19 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 10:49 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 5:49:51 PM UTC-8,
> >>>>>>>>>>>> AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 6:44 PM, John B. wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 12:27:31 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 9:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 7:57 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 8:31 PM, John B. wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, of course I was ridiculing Franks
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assertion, at
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> least as I
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understood him, that somehow one would be more,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or less,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stricken by
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grief depending on the cause of death.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You're being totally unrealistic, in a foolish
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attempt to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pursue a nonsense argument.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Neither individuals nor society treat all deaths
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as equal,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nor have identical feelings about all deaths.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death of an elderly person who has lived a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> full life is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one thing. Perhaps it is regrettable depending on
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conditions, but often people remark "Well, it
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was time" or
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something similar.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death from natural causes of a middle aged
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or younger
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person is generally treated as a bit more
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regrettable. A
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar death of a child even more so.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> An accidental death of those people triggers yet
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regret, and may lead to anger at how such a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing could be
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> allowed to happen.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a person rightfully triggers
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outrage and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> criminal prosecution.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a child, even more outrage.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The killing of 20 children sitting in school is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> considered
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> truly heinous. At least, by people who are not
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avid fans of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the weapon used.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes I understand you and you're not wrong in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> principle but policy
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> based
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on anomalies doesn't always work out well.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/1927-bombing-remains-americas-deadliest-school-massacre-180963355/
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A British-born engineer and colleague of mine in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 1970s used to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mock
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a slogan the NRA promoted in those days. He said
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "And when bombs are
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outlawed, only outlaws will have bombs."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if today's pretend soldiers will use the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Second Amendment to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> call for free use and possession of bombs?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are slipping right down into the throes of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> silly ness.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your colleague's mocking comment is pretty silly as
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> today, in the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> U.S., several states with rather severe hand gun
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> control laws are
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> finding more and more being smuggled into the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> state. So it is a truism
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that when guns are outlawed only criminals will
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> have guns.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> You might try a google search on "gun+smuggle". I
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> get 15,600,000
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "hits".
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/gun-trafficking-ring-ohio-camden-new-jersey-weapons-arrests/205248/
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> +1
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Out here in the actual world it's the same market
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> as dope. Prohibition or hyper regulatory tax schemes
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> guarantee a higher profit to contraband.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> OK, you guys have convinced me! Laws never work, so
> >>>>>>>>>>>> we should outlaw
> >>>>>>>>>>>> all laws. Got it!
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> (Since this is Usenet, I may have to say that was
> >>>>>>>>>>>> sarcasm.)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Suggestions welcome.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> OK:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Canadian laws.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> British laws.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> French laws.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Heck, Swiss laws. Lots of guns, but in "well regulated
> >>>>>>>>>> militias." And
> >>>>>>>>>> far, far less gun crime than the U.S.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Very few developed nations emulate the U.S.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Re Canadian laws...
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I did a bit of research and Canada has a far lower
> >>>>>>>>> incident of violent
> >>>>>>>>> crime, i.e. law breaking, then the U.S.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Do you suppose that this is a matter of better laws or
> >>>>>>>>> is it a matter
> >>>>>>>>> of a more law abiding people?
> >>>>>>>>> And, I suspect the same applies to The British, and the
> >>>>>>>>> Swiss.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Got it. It has nothing to do with laws or national
> >>>>>>>> policies! The people
> >>>>>>>> in (say) Windsor, Ontario are a different species than
> >>>>>>>> those in (say)
> >>>>>>>> Detroit, Michigan. Their motivations, morals, reflexes
> >>>>>>>> and behaviors are
> >>>>>>>> all very, very different. And the people south of that
> >>>>>>>> border can never,
> >>>>>>>> ever be expected to stop trying to kill one another.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I'm learning so much here!
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> (Again, please note the sarcasm.)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Be as sarcastic as you will but reality shows a very
> >>>>>>> different
> >>>>>>> picture:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Crime
> >>>>>>> Offences / 100,000 population Canada
> >>>>>>> Offences / 100,000 population U.S.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Rape
> >>>>>>> Canada 1.69
> >>>>>>> U.S. 27.31
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Assault
> >>>>>>> Canada 150.81
> >>>>>>> U.S. 246.84
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Incarcerated
> >>>>>>> Canada 104
> >>>>>>> U.S. 629
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> And your explanation for the differences, please? Is it
> >>>>>> genetics? Are Canadians (like Brits, Irish, French, Dutch
> >>>>>> etc.) are born with some special law abiding gene that's
> >>>>>> missing in Americans?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Or is there a chance that a nation's policies and laws
> >>>>>> actually affect citizens' behaviors?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> Laws and policies are dynamic and (more or less) reflect the
> >>>>> culture. Where there is significant conflict (i.e.,
> >>>>> Prohibition) the laws and/or policies change, not the culture.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You may well argue that alcohol is an anomaly and you meant
> >>>>> well understood crimes of long standing such as theft and
> >>>>> robbery and that those are different. You'd be wrong.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/new-yorks-no-bail-law-leaves-a-trail-of-violence/ar-BB1gmfaq
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/06/us/alvin-bragg-manhattan-district-attorney-crimes-prosecution/index.html
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://www.foxla.com/news/gascon-launches-diversion-program-for-minors-who-commit-felony-burglary-vehicle-theft-robbery
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-justice/commentary/meet-chesa-boudin-the-rogue-prosecutor-wreaking-havoc-san-francisco
> >>>> You need only look at the massive increase in the most violent crimes under the Democrats to see that they have played directly into the hands of the criminals.
> >>>
> >>> https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/10/27/what-we-know-about-the-increase-in-u-s-murders-in-2020/ft_21-010-19_murderrate_3a/
> >>> Shows murders from about 1968 to 2020. Up with Nixon, down a bit with Ford, then up with Carter, then down and up with Reagan and Bush1, then down down down with Clinton, Bush2, Obama first term, then up Obama second term and UP UP UP at the end of Trump term. Trump had the HIGHEST increase in history for murders during his final year.
> >>>
> >> Yes that's true but you miss the state/local differences
> >> which are critical because Federal murder prosecution is
> >> extremely rare:
> >> https://qz.com/162289/217-years-of-homicide-in-new-york/
> >>
> >>
> >> Typically (shows local differences)
> >>
> >> https://static01.nyt.com/images/2016/09/08/us/us-murder-rates-1473385452240/us-murder-rates-1473385452240-videoSixteenByNine3000.png?year=2016&h=1687&w=3000&sig=0xa5fc7ca9d975cc8f21d29a25deecab99&tw=1
> >>
> >> Can't find comparative charts through 2021, a year in which
> >> many cities gave up on law enforcement (or actively promoted
> >> arson riot and looting) but here's a resource through 2019:
> >>
> >> https://www.disastercenter.com/crime/nycrime.htm
> >
> > Do you really believe those statistics? They are plainly being manipulated by using numbers per 100,000 rather than actual numbers. Exactly how much are they rounding off and in which direction? It is all BS if you ask me..
> >
> OK.
> Time is finite and I spent as much of it as I thought
> appropriate on a web search. Find better data and link it
> when you find it, THX.

On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 10:41:47 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 2/26/2022 7:53 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 19:16:04 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/26/2022 6:07 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 16:20:25 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2/26/2022 12:05 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>> On 2/26/2022 9:57 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2/26/2022 1:47 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 11:32:25 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 6:06 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 12:02:17 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 11:19 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 10:49 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 5:49:51 PM UTC-8,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 6:44 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 12:27:31 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 9:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 7:57 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 8:31 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, of course I was ridiculing Franks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assertion, at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> least as I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understood him, that somehow one would be more,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or less,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stricken by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grief depending on the cause of death.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You're being totally unrealistic, in a foolish
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attempt to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pursue a nonsense argument.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Neither individuals nor society treat all deaths
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as equal,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nor have identical feelings about all deaths.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death of an elderly person who has lived a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> full life is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one thing. Perhaps it is regrettable depending on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conditions, but often people remark "Well, it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was time" or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something similar.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death from natural causes of a middle aged
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or younger
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person is generally treated as a bit more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regrettable. A
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar death of a child even more so.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> An accidental death of those people triggers yet
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regret, and may lead to anger at how such a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing could be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> allowed to happen.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a person rightfully triggers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outrage and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> criminal prosecution.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a child, even more outrage.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The killing of 20 children sitting in school is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> considered
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> truly heinous. At least, by people who are not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avid fans of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the weapon used.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes I understand you and you're not wrong in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> principle but policy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> based
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on anomalies doesn't always work out well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/1927-bombing-remains-americas-deadliest-school-massacre-180963355/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A British-born engineer and colleague of mine in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 1970s used to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mock
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a slogan the NRA promoted in those days. He said
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "And when bombs are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outlawed, only outlaws will have bombs."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if today's pretend soldiers will use the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Second Amendment to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> call for free use and possession of bombs?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are slipping right down into the throes of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> silly ness.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your colleague's mocking comment is pretty silly as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> today, in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> U.S., several states with rather severe hand gun
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> control laws are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finding more and more being smuggled into the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> state. So it is a truism
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that when guns are outlawed only criminals will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have guns.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You might try a google search on "gun+smuggle". I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get 15,600,000
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "hits".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/gun-trafficking-ring-ohio-camden-new-jersey-weapons-arrests/205248/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Out here in the actual world it's the same market
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as dope. Prohibition or hyper regulatory tax schemes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guarantee a higher profit to contraband.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK, you guys have convinced me! Laws never work, so
>>>>>>>>>>>>> we should outlaw
>>>>>>>>>>>>> all laws. Got it!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Since this is Usenet, I may have to say that was
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sarcasm.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Suggestions welcome.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> OK:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Canadian laws.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> British laws.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> French laws.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Heck, Swiss laws. Lots of guns, but in "well regulated
>>>>>>>>>>> militias." And
>>>>>>>>>>> far, far less gun crime than the U.S.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Very few developed nations emulate the U.S.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Re Canadian laws...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I did a bit of research and Canada has a far lower
>>>>>>>>>> incident of violent
>>>>>>>>>> crime, i.e. law breaking, then the U.S.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Do you suppose that this is a matter of better laws or
>>>>>>>>>> is it a matter
>>>>>>>>>> of a more law abiding people?
>>>>>>>>>> And, I suspect the same applies to The British, and the
>>>>>>>>>> Swiss.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Got it. It has nothing to do with laws or national
>>>>>>>>> policies! The people
>>>>>>>>> in (say) Windsor, Ontario are a different species than
>>>>>>>>> those in (say)
>>>>>>>>> Detroit, Michigan. Their motivations, morals, reflexes
>>>>>>>>> and behaviors are
>>>>>>>>> all very, very different. And the people south of that
>>>>>>>>> border can never,
>>>>>>>>> ever be expected to stop trying to kill one another.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm learning so much here!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (Again, please note the sarcasm.)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Be as sarcastic as you will but reality shows a very
>>>>>>>> different
>>>>>>>> picture:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Crime
>>>>>>>> Offences / 100,000 population  Canada
>>>>>>>> Offences / 100,000 population U.S.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>   Rape
>>>>>>>> Canada 1.69
>>>>>>>> U.S. 27.31
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Assault
>>>>>>>> Canada 150.81
>>>>>>>> U.S. 246.84
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Incarcerated
>>>>>>>> Canada 104
>>>>>>>> U.S. 629
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And your explanation for the differences, please? Is it
>>>>>>> genetics? Are Canadians (like Brits, Irish, French, Dutch
>>>>>>> etc.) are born with some special law abiding gene that's
>>>>>>> missing in Americans?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Or is there a chance that a nation's policies and laws
>>>>>>> actually affect citizens' behaviors?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Laws and policies are dynamic and (more or less) reflect the culture.
>>>>>> Where there is significant conflict (i.e., Prohibition) the laws and/or
>>>>>> policies change, not the culture.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You may well argue that alcohol is an anomaly and you meant well
>>>>>> understood crimes of long standing such as theft and robbery and that
>>>>>> those are different. You'd be wrong.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/new-yorks-no-bail-law-leaves-a-trail-of-violence/ar-BB1gmfaq
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/06/us/alvin-bragg-manhattan-district-attorney-crimes-prosecution/index.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.foxla.com/news/gascon-launches-diversion-program-for-minors-who-commit-felony-burglary-vehicle-theft-robbery
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-justice/commentary/meet-chesa-boudin-the-rogue-prosecutor-wreaking-havoc-san-francisco
>>>>>
>>>>> You seem to be rebutting an argument I haven't made.
>>>>>
>>>>> In any case, it seems neither you nor John had no explanation for the
>>>>> differences (nor source) he's found for Canadian vs. U.S. crime stats.
>>>>> You can't be suggesting it's because of the anecdotes and policy changes
>>>>> you cited in those articles. None are more than two years old, and two
>>>>> are only a few months old.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you have an explanation for Canada's much better numbers? Is their
>>>>> justice system really more strict and punitive than ours?
>>>>>
>>>>> I really don't know the answer. But I very much doubt the better numbers
>>>>> are due to some inborn, genetic difference in the populations.
>>>>
>>>> You are getting more Tommy like every day. You have been using Canada
>>>> versus the U.S. as justification for your claims about U.S. gun laws
>>>> for months and now when you are shown that Canada is a far more law
>>>> abiding country then the U.S, you rather adroitly slid right off that
>>>> subject and now wonder about the difference in social make up of the
>>>> two countries.
>>>
>>> We can discuss Canadian laws, practices and culture any way you want,
>>> John. Just try to follow the discussion, please, without insults.
>>>
>>> Personally, I think Canadian gun laws have a direct bearing on their
>>> relative absence of gun violence. I feel the same about the gun laws of
>>> Britain, France, Netherlands, Ireland, etc. The U.S. absolutely is an
>>> outlier among any nations that are even vaguely similar regarding
>>> technology, economy and average prosperity.
>>>
>>> Your defense of U.S. gun policy is, apparently, "Canada has less rape
>>> too" with the implication apparently being that Americans are inherently
>>> much worse people.
>>>
>>> Is that not what you're implying? If so, please tell me what you DO mean.
>>>
>>> And if you believe Americans are inherently worse, can you not tell me
>>> what makes them that way?
>>
>>
>> Big (:-).
>> Yup, just as Tom does you are changing the subject and now your
>> initial comments about gun crimes has become a study of the social
>> conduct of two countries.
>
>The person who INTRODUCED the topic of rapes says I was the one who
>changed the subject?
>
>Wow.
>
Nice try (:-) But No, I didn't introduce the topic of Rape, per se. I
introduced the fact that Canada has far less serious crime then the
U.S.

On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 09:49:08 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 8:39:08 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 2/26/2022 4:08 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> > On 2/26/2022 4:42 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> >> On 2/26/2022 3:20 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> >>> On 2/26/2022 12:05 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> >>>> On 2/26/2022 9:57 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> >>>>> On 2/26/2022 1:47 AM, John B. wrote:
>> >>>>>> On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 11:32:25 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>> >>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 6:06 PM, John B. wrote:
>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 12:02:17 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>> >>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 11:19 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 10:49 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 5:49:51 PM UTC-8,
>> >>>>>>>>>>> AMuzi wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 6:44 PM, John B. wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 12:27:31 -0500, Frank
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Krygowski
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 9:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 7:57 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 8:31 PM, John B. wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, of course I was ridiculing Franks
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assertion, at
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> least as I
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understood him, that somehow one would be
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or less,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stricken by
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grief depending on the cause of death.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You're being totally unrealistic, in a foolish
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attempt to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pursue a nonsense argument.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Neither individuals nor society treat all
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deaths
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as equal,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nor have identical feelings about all deaths.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death of an elderly person who has lived a
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> full life is
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one thing. Perhaps it is regrettable
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> depending on
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conditions, but often people remark "Well, it
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was time" or
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something similar.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death from natural causes of a middle aged
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or younger
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person is generally treated as a bit more
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regrettable. A
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar death of a child even more so.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> An accidental death of those people triggers
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yet
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regret, and may lead to anger at how such a
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing could be
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> allowed to happen.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a person rightfully triggers
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outrage and
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> criminal prosecution.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a child, even more outrage.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The killing of 20 children sitting in school is
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> considered
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> truly heinous. At least, by people who are not
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avid fans of
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the weapon used.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes I understand you and you're not wrong in
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> principle but policy
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> based
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on anomalies doesn't always work out well.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/1927-bombing-remains-americas-deadliest-school-massacre-180963355/
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> A British-born engineer and colleague of mine in
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 1970s used to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> mock
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a slogan the NRA promoted in those days. He said
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "And when bombs are
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> outlawed, only outlaws will have bombs."
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if today's pretend soldiers will use the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Second Amendment to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> call for free use and possession of bombs?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> You are slipping right down into the throes of
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> silly ness.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Your colleague's mocking comment is pretty
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> silly as
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> today, in the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> U.S., several states with rather severe hand gun
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> control laws are
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> finding more and more being smuggled into the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> state. So it is a truism
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> that when guns are outlawed only criminals will
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> have guns.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> You might try a google search on "gun+smuggle". I
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> get 15,600,000
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> "hits".
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/gun-trafficking-ring-ohio-camden-new-jersey-weapons-arrests/205248/
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> +1
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Out here in the actual world it's the same market
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> as dope. Prohibition or hyper regulatory tax
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> schemes
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> guarantee a higher profit to contraband.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> OK, you guys have convinced me! Laws never work, so
>> >>>>>>>>>>> we should outlaw
>> >>>>>>>>>>> all laws. Got it!
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> (Since this is Usenet, I may have to say that was
>> >>>>>>>>>>> sarcasm.)
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Suggestions welcome.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> OK:
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Canadian laws.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> British laws.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> French laws.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Heck, Swiss laws. Lots of guns, but in "well regulated
>> >>>>>>>>> militias." And
>> >>>>>>>>> far, far less gun crime than the U.S.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Very few developed nations emulate the U.S.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Re Canadian laws...
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> I did a bit of research and Canada has a far lower
>> >>>>>>>> incident of violent
>> >>>>>>>> crime, i.e. law breaking, then the U.S.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Do you suppose that this is a matter of better laws or
>> >>>>>>>> is it a matter
>> >>>>>>>> of a more law abiding people?
>> >>>>>>>> And, I suspect the same applies to The British, and the
>> >>>>>>>> Swiss.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Got it. It has nothing to do with laws or national
>> >>>>>>> policies! The people
>> >>>>>>> in (say) Windsor, Ontario are a different species than
>> >>>>>>> those in (say)
>> >>>>>>> Detroit, Michigan. Their motivations, morals, reflexes
>> >>>>>>> and behaviors are
>> >>>>>>> all very, very different. And the people south of that
>> >>>>>>> border can never,
>> >>>>>>> ever be expected to stop trying to kill one another.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I'm learning so much here!
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> (Again, please note the sarcasm.)
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Be as sarcastic as you will but reality shows a very
>> >>>>>> different
>> >>>>>> picture:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Crime
>> >>>>>> Offences / 100,000 population Canada
>> >>>>>> Offences / 100,000 population U.S.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>  Rape
>> >>>>>> Canada 1.69
>> >>>>>> U.S. 27.31
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Assault
>> >>>>>> Canada 150.81
>> >>>>>> U.S. 246.84
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Incarcerated
>> >>>>>> Canada 104
>> >>>>>> U.S. 629
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> And your explanation for the differences, please? Is it
>> >>>>> genetics? Are Canadians (like Brits, Irish, French, Dutch
>> >>>>> etc.) are born with some special law abiding gene that's
>> >>>>> missing in Americans?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Or is there a chance that a nation's policies and laws
>> >>>>> actually affect citizens' behaviors?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Laws and policies are dynamic and (more or less) reflect
>> >>>> the culture. Where there is significant conflict (i.e.,
>> >>>> Prohibition) the laws and/or policies change, not the
>> >>>> culture.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> You may well argue that alcohol is an anomaly and you
>> >>>> meant well understood crimes of long standing such as
>> >>>> theft and robbery and that those are different. You'd be
>> >>>> wrong.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/new-yorks-no-bail-law-leaves-a-trail-of-violence/ar-BB1gmfaq
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/06/us/alvin-bragg-manhattan-district-attorney-crimes-prosecution/index.html
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> https://www.foxla.com/news/gascon-launches-diversion-program-for-minors-who-commit-felony-burglary-vehicle-theft-robbery
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-justice/commentary/meet-chesa-boudin-the-rogue-prosecutor-wreaking-havoc-san-francisco
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> You seem to be rebutting an argument I haven't made.
>> >>>
>> >>> In any case, it seems neither you nor John had no
>> >>> explanation for the differences (nor source) he's found for
>> >>> Canadian vs. U.S. crime stats. You can't be suggesting it's
>> >>> because of the anecdotes and policy changes you cited in
>> >>> those articles. None are more than two years old, and two
>> >>> are only a few months old.
>> >>>
>> >>> Do you have an explanation for Canada's much better numbers?
>> >>> Is their justice system really more strict and punitive than
>> >>> ours?
>> >>>
>> >>> I really don't know the answer. But I very much doubt the
>> >>> better numbers are due to some inborn, genetic difference in
>> >>> the populations.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> Sorry if I was not more clear.
>> >>
>> >> I meant that rather than laws changing the culture,
>> >> cultural changes are reflected in different (or, 2022,
>> >> deficient, lacking, dysfunctional) policies and laws.
>> >>
>> >> We are a much more violent nation than Canada. This was
>> >> not _caused_ by repealing death penalty statues nor by
>> >> redefining 'felony' or what have you.
>> >>
>> >> Opening the borders in direct conflict with a host of long
>> >> standing Federal statutes, by ukase, probably has
>> >> increased violence but that's like peeing in the ocean.
>> >
>> > But again, "We are a much more violent nation than Canada"
>> > is not an answer to my question.
>> >
>> > Which was "And your explanation for the differences, please?
>> > Is it genetics?"
>> >
>> > If not that, then what?
>> >
>> I don't know and simple answers will not be found.
>>
>> Many serious people have interesting analyses. Thomas Sowell
>> for example has written extensively on the link between
>> Scots-Irish lower class immigration to the central and
>> southern States (after New England was settled) and the
>> follow on effects of their culture on the nearby black
>> population in terms of cultural attitudes and behaviors.
>>
>> And lest my comments be misunderstood, when Mr Kunich notes
>> (correctly if perhaps not well composed) that black men are
>> 7% of USA but 50% of homicide victims and of murderers where
>> race is known, this has no meaning for the greater bulk of
>> normal black Americans with whom we live, work and date. As
>> with white or Hondurans any group, a very small number of
>> feral criminals account for most crime and as criminology
>> understood in the early 1990s removing a few dozen guys from
>> a neighborhood will and has dramatically reduced crime. New
>> York is the classic case but not different from other
>> experiences except in volume.
>>
>> Back to your prior comment, the elected officials linked
>> above each ran specifically on _not_ jailing criminals. And
>> were elected. Enough voters embraced a vision of societal
>> collapse to vote them in or, as I noted, laws and policies
>> follow culture.
>>
>> I'm more than concerned, I'm upset. In the local instance I
>> sold my house and moved my business out of a county which
>> has fallen apart by treating career criminals as lost
>> wayward souls if not an endangered species requiring
>> coddling on the public dime at great expense. The results
>> are not pretty but hey I'm a minority now.
>
>I read in someone's posting that Frank was accusing me of bringing up rape. I went through all of my postings and found no such thing. But here Frank is bringing rape up.