Am 18.02.2022 um 06:50 schrieb Jeff Liebermann:
> On Thu, 17 Feb 2022 15:25:12 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 17 Feb 2022 14:43:49 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> My mistake, that was a typo which you always find so appalling Endocarditis
>
>> Endocarditis might be a real problem, but not this time:
>> <https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/endocarditis/symptoms-causes/syc-20352576>
>> I had that problem on Sept 27, 2021.
>
> Oops, my mistake. I was diagnosed with pericarditis, not
> endocarditis. Paracarditis is the inflammation of the sac around the
> heart, while endocarditis is the inflammation of the inner lining of
> the heart chambers and valves. There's also myocarditis, which is the
> inflammation of the heart muscle. Sorry for the confusion.

Right, and Myocarditis is the one known statistically relevant adverse
effect of the vaccine: Amongst males in the age group below 30, it hits
one in 500,000. A Covid-19 infection triggers Myocarditis about 10
times more often; in bost cases the myocarditis can be avoided by a
couple of weeks rest.

This was the main reason why the Moderna Vaxxine in Germany is not
recommended for people below the age of 30, and it is also the reason
why originally, the German Health Service recommended Covid-19
vaccinations in the age groups below 30 "only for risk groups".
With the Omicron wave, the risk of Covid-19 in fection has risen above
10%, so now the German Health service recommend the vaccination for
everybody.

Rolf

On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 9:43:11 PM UTC-8, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Feb 2022 17:12:49 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 3:25:21 PM UTC-8, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Thu, 17 Feb 2022 14:43:49 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >My mistake, that was a typo which you always find so appalling Endocarditis
> >> Endocarditis might be a real problem, but not this time:
> >> <https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/endocarditis/symptoms-causes/syc-20352576>
> >> I had that problem on Sept 27, 2021. Symptoms were a very mild and
> >> continuous chest pain centered around the heart. Nothing else. After
> >> 3 days of mostly ignoring the problem, I was kidnapped by some friends
> >> and dropped off at the Dominican Hospital ER (emergency room) at
> >> around midnight. I spent 16 hrs getting tested for most everything
> >> possible, including covid-19 antibodies, but nothing was found. They
> >> were going to continue until something could be found when my
> >> cardiologist arrived and rescued me from might have turned out to be
> >> endless testing. Over the next 4 days, the pains slowly diminished
> >> and eventually disappeared not to return. At this time, I have no
> >> clue what caused it or any certainty that it was endocarditis.
> >>
> >> Of course, I asked the hospital doctor and my cardiologist if this was
> >> in any way connected my previous covid-19 vaccination shots on Apr 3
> >> and May 1, 2021. Unlikely because they were 6 months ago. I received
> >> the booster shot on Dec 5, 2021, which is also unlikely unless you
> >> believe reverse time shift causality inversion.
> >>
> >> What I find appalling is that you can't even write a one line
> >> correction without also insulting the person who found your mistake.
> >> Everyone makes typo and spelling errors, which would rarely need
> >> public attention. However, 100% wrong batting average and amazing
> >> wrong facts deserves some attention in the vain hope that you might do
> >> something to fix the problem.
> >>
> >> Incidentally, you forgot to provide a link to the JAMA article you
> >> mentioned.
>
> >https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/circ.144.suppl_1.10712 Abstract 10712: Mrna COVID Vaccines Dramatically Increase Endothelial Inflammatory Markers and ACS Risk as Measured by the PULS Cardiac Test: a Warning
> That's from AHA, not from JAMA. I'm interested in the JAMA article
> you mentioned because it allegedly claims:
> "... latest papers in the Journal of the American Medical Association
> are showing over a doubling of the chance of a heart attack for anyone
> that took the mRNA vaccines."
> I wanted to read all about this doubled risk, not about failed wonder
> drugs and treatments from other sources. If you're going to cite an
> unspecified article in JAMA, the least you could do is find the
> article so others can appreciate your amazing findings.
>
> Here's the AHA correction to the above AHA article:
> <https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIR.0000000000001053>
> No numbers:
> "No statistical comparison was done in this observational study."
> The alarmist warnings have been removed from the abstract due to lack
> of sufficient data to demonstrate anything.
> >Or you can get a better explanation of the paper from Dr. Campbell. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEBGl8MVE-c&t=102s
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Campbell_(YouTuber)>
> See section on his COVID-19 misinformation:
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Campbell_(YouTuber)#COVID-19_misinformation>
>
> >Also see http://indepthnh.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/COVID-Report-from-Rep.-Weyler-3.pdf
>
> Dr Vladimir Zelenko is not a good source for Covid-19 information:
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Zelenko>
> His claim to fame was that he was one of the early promoters of the
> failed hydroxychloroquine treatment for COVID-19.
>
> "Has Dr. Zelenko Successfully Treated 669 Coronavirus Patients?"
> <https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/zelenko-669-coronavirus-patients/>
> Conclusion: Unproven.

Jeff, why don't you pull a John on us and look it up on Google? I realize that would be a bit novel but you could probably find it down 100 pages since Google does not want real information out in the public.

On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 1:35:10 AM UTC-8, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 7:12:54 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 3:25:21 PM UTC-8, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Thu, 17 Feb 2022 14:43:49 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> > > <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >My mistake, that was a typo which you always find so appalling Endocarditis
> > > Endocarditis might be a real problem, but not this time:
> > > <https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/endocarditis/symptoms-causes/syc-20352576>
> > > I had that problem on Sept 27, 2021. Symptoms were a very mild and
> > > continuous chest pain centered around the heart. Nothing else. After
> > > 3 days of mostly ignoring the problem, I was kidnapped by some friends
> > > and dropped off at the Dominican Hospital ER (emergency room) at
> > > around midnight. I spent 16 hrs getting tested for most everything
> > > possible, including covid-19 antibodies, but nothing was found. They
> > > were going to continue until something could be found when my
> > > cardiologist arrived and rescued me from might have turned out to be
> > > endless testing. Over the next 4 days, the pains slowly diminished
> > > and eventually disappeared not to return. At this time, I have no
> > > clue what caused it or any certainty that it was endocarditis.
> > >
> > > Of course, I asked the hospital doctor and my cardiologist if this was
> > > in any way connected my previous covid-19 vaccination shots on Apr 3
> > > and May 1, 2021. Unlikely because they were 6 months ago. I received
> > > the booster shot on Dec 5, 2021, which is also unlikely unless you
> > > believe reverse time shift causality inversion.
> > >
> > > What I find appalling is that you can't even write a one line
> > > correction without also insulting the person who found your mistake.
> > > Everyone makes typo and spelling errors, which would rarely need
> > > public attention. However, 100% wrong batting average and amazing
> > > wrong facts deserves some attention in the vain hope that you might do
> > > something to fix the problem.
> > >
> > > Incidentally, you forgot to provide a link to the JAMA article you
> > > mentioned.
> > https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/circ.144.suppl_1.10712 Abstract 10712: Mrna COVID Vaccines Dramatically Increase Endothelial Inflammatory Markers and ACS Risk as Measured by the PULS Cardiac Test: a Warning
> >
> > Or you can get a better explanation of the paper from Dr. Campbell. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEBGl8MVE-c&t=102s
> >
> > Also see http://indepthnh.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/COVID-Report-from-Rep.-Weyler-3.pdf
> Tommy, you got to do a better job of lying than that.
> https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/oct/01/blog-posting/report-shares-wildly-unfounded-claims-covid-19-vac/
> "A 52-page report from a pair of anti-vaccine advocates claims to present the truth about COVID-19 vaccines. However, it does just the opposite.
>
> The website Stop World Control published the so-called Vaccine Death Report in September 2021, and it was shared across Facebook, including in this Sept. 26 post. It is written by David Sorenson and Dr. Vladimir Zelenko, a New York doctor who made headlines for prescribing hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19 even though health authorities cautioned against it.
>
> The report claims that "millions have died from COVID injections" around the world, and includes narratives from the United States, the United Kingdom, Israel and Brazil to back up this claim.
>
> On top of that, it claims that half a million people within the United States have suffered severe side effects such as strokes, heart failure, brain disorders, convulsions and more.
>
> "The data shows that we are currently witnessing the greatest organized mass murder in the history of our world," the report states.
>
> The alarming findings cite databases like the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System and others. But the report misinterpreted the data to draw unfounded conclusions about the vaccines.
>
> The Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System, also called VAERS, is an official public government database where anyone can submit any potential adverse health effect following a vaccine. However, the reports are not verified, and the system itself warns that reports can contain information that is incomplete, inaccurate, coincidental or unverifiable. When used improperly, VAERS can be a source for misinformation."
>
> Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. And the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has not verified any deaths as a result of the vaccines approved in the United States."
>
> Tommy, please try to fact check and assess the quality of the "support documents" you use for your wild claims.
> >
> > "VAERS data from the American CDC shows that as of September 17, 2021, already 726,963 people
> > suffered adverse events, including stroke, heart failure, blood clots, brain disorders, convulsions,
> > seizures, inflammations of brain & spinal cord, life-threatening allergic reactions, autoimmune
> > diseases, arthritis, miscarriage, infertility, rapid-onset muscle weakness, deafness, blindness,
> > narcolepsy, and cataplexy. Besides the astronomical number of severe side effects, the CDC reports
> > that almost 15,386 people died as a result of receiving the experimental injections. However, a CDC
> > healthcare fraud detection expert named Jane Doe investigated this and came to the shocking
> > discovery that the number of deaths is at least five times higher than what the CDC is admitting. In
> > fact, in her initial communications to professor in medicine Dr. Peter McCullough, this whistleblower
> > said that the number of deaths is ten times higher. The CDC health fraud detection expert signed an
> > affidavit, in which she stated her findings. She carefully chose the wordings '...under-reported by a
> > conservative factor of at least five', but as she revealed initially, the factor could also be ten. Here
> > is an excerpt of the affidavit: 1
> > 'I have, over the last 25 years, developed over 100 distinct healthcare fraud detection
> > algorithms. ... When the COVID-19 vaccine clearly became associated with patient death and
> > harm, I was inclined to investigate the matter. It is my professional estimate that VAERS (the
> > Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System) database, while extremely useful, is under-reported
> > by a conservative factor of at least 5. ... and have assessed that the deaths occurring within 3
> > days of vaccination are higher than those reported in VAERS by a factor of at least 5.'
> > The CDC is also vastly underreporting other adverse events, like severe allergic reactions
> > (anaphylaxis). The Informed Consent Action Network (ICAN) reported that a study showed how the
> > actual number of anaphylaxis is 50 to 120 times higher than claimed by the CDC.2, 3 On top of that, a
> > private researcher took a close look at the VAERS database, and tried looking up specific case-ID’s"
Russell, you're free to believe anything you like. Fauci is saying that all of the states opening up are wrong and you should still be double masking with masks that the CDC studies say do not work. Be yourself and hug the fear closely.

On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 5:24:14 AM UTC-8, Rolf Mantel wrote:
> Am 18.02.2022 um 06:50 schrieb Jeff Liebermann:
> > On Thu, 17 Feb 2022 15:25:12 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, 17 Feb 2022 14:43:49 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> My mistake, that was a typo which you always find so appalling Endocarditis
> >
> >> Endocarditis might be a real problem, but not this time:
> >> <https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/endocarditis/symptoms-causes/syc-20352576>
> >> I had that problem on Sept 27, 2021.
> >
> > Oops, my mistake. I was diagnosed with pericarditis, not
> > endocarditis. Paracarditis is the inflammation of the sac around the
> > heart, while endocarditis is the inflammation of the inner lining of
> > the heart chambers and valves. There's also myocarditis, which is the
> > inflammation of the heart muscle. Sorry for the confusion.
> Right, and Myocarditis is the one known statistically relevant adverse
> effect of the vaccine: Amongst males in the age group below 30, it hits
> one in 500,000. A Covid-19 infection triggers Myocarditis about 10
> times more often; in bost cases the myocarditis can be avoided by a
> couple of weeks rest.
>
> This was the main reason why the Moderna Vaxxine in Germany is not
> recommended for people below the age of 30, and it is also the reason
> why originally, the German Health Service recommended Covid-19
> vaccinations in the age groups below 30 "only for risk groups".
> With the Omicron wave, the risk of Covid-19 in fection has risen above
> 10%, so now the German Health service recommend the vaccination for
> everybody.

There is a serious problem with their statistics. They are claiming that if you are vaccinated and less than 16 days have gone by, you are not vaccinated and any death is laid at the door not of the vaccine but of covid-19. I have shown that they have no means of positively detecting covid-19 because they have never isolated the virus. How do you test for something you don't even know exists?

Leanard Lee just put out another video saying that he was self isolating because he tested positive for covid-19. What were his symptoms? A slight fever and a slight tightening in his chest. In other words the same symptoms as a cold. It is winter after all though perhaps people in England have a problem telling the difference in the seasons since it is always raining, cold and nasty.

russellseaton1@yahoo.com <ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 10:01:31 PM UTC-6, frkr...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 5:45:20 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
>>>
>>> The hospital and doctor I mentioned are "Government Hospitals". We
>>> have both Government and Private hospitals here. the major difference
>>> is that for a Thai citizen, they pay 30 baht - about 1 hour's minimum
>>> wages, per visit and anything that the doctor in the Government
>>> Hospital prescribes is covered by that 30 baht. The so called Private
>>> hospitals charges are as much as 10 times, or more, higher.
>> Whoa. I had to look that up, but 30 baht is almost one U.S. dollar for the visit
>> plus all medications!
>>
>> And private hospitals charge nearly $10 per hospital visit? You know, here in
>> the U.S. those charges are a bit higher.
>>
>> - Frank Krygowski
>
> John did also say "they pay 30 baht - about 1 hour's minimum wages,"
>
> So $1 per hour is the minimum wage in Thailand. Here in the US of A it
> is $7.25. I suspect many folks would be dancing in the streets if they
> could only get a charge of $72.50 for a doctor office visit.
>

I’d be quite pissed off at the sudden increase in cost.

On 2/18/2022 12:56 AM, John B. wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Feb 2022 20:04:26 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 6:34:14 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>>
>>> For Remington Arms, the charges alleged incitement in their
>>> advertising, an unique CT statute and I agree it was poorly
>>> done (although I didn't see it as criminal, merely stupid. I
>>> am not a CT legislator).
>>>
>>> Trouble is, Remington Arms is in bankruptcy (a regular
>>> process in the boom-bust arms industry) so the four
>>> insurance carriers decided it was in their best interests to
>>> settle. I do not know their analyses. Nor do you.
>>>
>>> Interesting side note: The AR-15 style rifle was chambered
>>> .22LR.
>>
>> Fired fast enough, .22 LR can kill a lot of kids.
>>
>> - Frank Krygowski
>
> I think that is a fundamental difference between the U.S., today, and
> some other countries.
>
> About a year an Thai Army Sergeant checked a M-16 out of the armory
> and went into Korat City and first went to a Buddhist Temple and shot
> some people and then went to a large shopping complex and shot some
> more. The final score was 30 dead and (I believe) 50 wounded.
>
> And nobody even mentioned the rifle, rather the entire blame was
> placed squarely on the shoulders of the guy that did the shooting. ...

So a Thai Army Sergeant checked an M-16 out of the armory to do a mass
shooting. How often does that happen?

I gather that Thailand's gun restrictions are quite a bit tighter than
those of the U.S. Here in the U.S., if someone wants to do a mass
shooting, they don't bother with an Army armory. Almost anyone can buy a
compact, rapid fire highly modifiable combat-optimized gun and blast
away. That's partly why U.S. gun deaths are many times more common than
those in Thailand.

Somehow, most Thais seem to do fine with tighter gun restrictions. I
assume you do as well. Have you ever needed a gun for self defense?

Do you own an AR-style or AK-style rifle?

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 2/18/2022 10:52 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:
> russellseaton1@yahoo.com <ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 10:01:31 PM UTC-6, frkr...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 5:45:20 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The hospital and doctor I mentioned are "Government Hospitals". We
>>>> have both Government and Private hospitals here. the major difference
>>>> is that for a Thai citizen, they pay 30 baht - about 1 hour's minimum
>>>> wages, per visit and anything that the doctor in the Government
>>>> Hospital prescribes is covered by that 30 baht. The so called Private
>>>> hospitals charges are as much as 10 times, or more, higher.
>>> Whoa. I had to look that up, but 30 baht is almost one U.S. dollar for the visit
>>> plus all medications!
>>>
>>> And private hospitals charge nearly $10 per hospital visit? You know, here in
>>> the U.S. those charges are a bit higher.
>>>
>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>
>> John did also say "they pay 30 baht - about 1 hour's minimum wages,"
>>
>> So $1 per hour is the minimum wage in Thailand. Here in the US of A it
>> is $7.25. I suspect many folks would be dancing in the streets if they
>> could only get a charge of $72.50 for a doctor office visit.
>>
>
> I’d be quite pissed off at the sudden increase in cost.

But Real Americans don't want none of that socialism! We LIKE giving
our money to maintain the Health Care executive yachts!

So what if our health is way worse than so many other countries? WE'RE
NUMBER ONE! (In costs.)

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 2/18/2022 4:35 AM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
> Tommy, please try to fact check and assess the quality of the "support documents" you use for your wild claims.

But that did pass Tom's quality standard! According to Tom, _any_ far
right source is _automatically_ correct.

Tom's a Q-Anon sucker.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 2/18/2022 8:24 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
>
> Right, and Myocarditis is the one known statistically relevant adverse
> effect of the vaccine: Amongst males in the age group below 30, it hits
> one in 500,000.  A Covid-19 infection triggers Myocarditis about 10
> times more often; in bost cases the myocarditis can be avoided by a
> couple of weeks rest.
>
> This was the main reason why the Moderna Vaxxine in Germany is not
> recommended for people below the age of 30, and it is also the reason
> why originally, the German Health Service recommended Covid-19
> vaccinations in the age groups below 30 "only for risk groups".
> With the Omicron wave, the risk of Covid-19 in fection has risen above
> 10%, so now the German Health service recommend the vaccination for
> everybody.

IOW, the health officials gathered and examined data, then acted on that
data. As conditions and resulting data changed, they adjusted policies
and actions.

A lot of people here could never understand that.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 8:44:19 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 2/18/2022 10:52 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:
> > russell...@yahoo.com <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 10:01:31 PM UTC-6, frkr...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 5:45:20 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> The hospital and doctor I mentioned are "Government Hospitals". We
> >>>> have both Government and Private hospitals here. the major difference
> >>>> is that for a Thai citizen, they pay 30 baht - about 1 hour's minimum
> >>>> wages, per visit and anything that the doctor in the Government
> >>>> Hospital prescribes is covered by that 30 baht. The so called Private
> >>>> hospitals charges are as much as 10 times, or more, higher.
> >>> Whoa. I had to look that up, but 30 baht is almost one U.S. dollar for the visit
> >>> plus all medications!
> >>>
> >>> And private hospitals charge nearly $10 per hospital visit? You know, here in
> >>> the U.S. those charges are a bit higher.
> >>>
> >>> - Frank Krygowski
> >>
> >> John did also say "they pay 30 baht - about 1 hour's minimum wages,"
> >>
> >> So $1 per hour is the minimum wage in Thailand. Here in the US of A it
> >> is $7.25. I suspect many folks would be dancing in the streets if they
> >> could only get a charge of $72.50 for a doctor office visit.
> >>
> >
> > I’d be quite pissed off at the sudden increase in cost.
> But Real Americans don't want none of that socialism! We LIKE giving
> our money to maintain the Health Care executive yachts!
>
> So what if our health is way worse than so many other countries? WE'RE
> NUMBER ONE! (In costs.)

Nothing but complaints that after spending your life not having to work, you don't have anything to show for it. Jobst did very well for himself. What was the reason you decided to go into a fiend that had poor pay and even more poor benefits?

On 2/18/2022 12:06 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 8:44:19 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>
>> Real Americans don't want none of that socialism! We LIKE giving
>> our money to maintain the Health Care executive yachts!
>>
>> So what if our health is way worse than so many other countries? WE'RE
>> NUMBER ONE! (In costs.)
>
> Nothing but complaints that after spending your life not having to work, you don't have anything to show for it. Jobst did very well for himself. What was the reason you decided to go into a fiend that had poor pay and even more poor benefits?

:-) HA HA HA HA HA!

Ah, Tom, you're a riot!

--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 2/18/2022 10:52 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:
>> russellseaton1@yahoo.com <ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 10:01:31 PM UTC-6, frkr...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 5:45:20 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> The hospital and doctor I mentioned are "Government Hospitals". We
>>>>> have both Government and Private hospitals here. the major difference
>>>>> is that for a Thai citizen, they pay 30 baht - about 1 hour's minimum
>>>>> wages, per visit and anything that the doctor in the Government
>>>>> Hospital prescribes is covered by that 30 baht. The so called Private
>>>>> hospitals charges are as much as 10 times, or more, higher.
>>>> Whoa. I had to look that up, but 30 baht is almost one U.S. dollar for the visit
>>>> plus all medications!
>>>>
>>>> And private hospitals charge nearly $10 per hospital visit? You know, here in
>>>> the U.S. those charges are a bit higher.
>>>>
>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>
>>> John did also say "they pay 30 baht - about 1 hour's minimum wages,"
>>>
>>> So $1 per hour is the minimum wage in Thailand. Here in the US of A it
>>> is $7.25. I suspect many folks would be dancing in the streets if they
>>> could only get a charge of $72.50 for a doctor office visit.
>>>
>>
>> I’d be quite pissed off at the sudden increase in cost.
>
> But Real Americans don't want none of that socialism! We LIKE giving
> our money to maintain the Health Care executive yachts!
>
> So what if our health is way worse than so many other countries? WE'RE
> NUMBER ONE! (In costs.)
>
>
I’ve been assured by American colleague’s of my wife over the years that
we’d of lost the house after the brain Injury, ie lots of scans high
intensity wards, rehabilitation over the years and so on!

That essentially be bankrupt the idea of keeping one’s job let alone the
house…

Roger Merriman

On 2/17/2022 10:04 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 6:34:14 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>
>> For Remington Arms, the charges alleged incitement in their
>> advertising, an unique CT statute and I agree it was poorly
>> done (although I didn't see it as criminal, merely stupid. I
>> am not a CT legislator).
>>
>> Trouble is, Remington Arms is in bankruptcy (a regular
>> process in the boom-bust arms industry) so the four
>> insurance carriers decided it was in their best interests to
>> settle. I do not know their analyses. Nor do you.
>>
>> Interesting side note: The AR-15 style rifle was chambered
>> .22LR.
>
> Fired fast enough, .22 LR can kill a lot of kids.
>
> - Frank Krygowski
>

I saw some disconnect between the lawsuit's emphasis on the
word 'combat' in the ad (no assertion that Ms Lanza ever saw
that ad) and the actual firearm with a .22 rimfire format.
Interesting side note only.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 11:06:39 AM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 8:44:19 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 2/18/2022 10:52 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:
> > > russell...@yahoo.com <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 10:01:31 PM UTC-6, frkr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >>> On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 5:45:20 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> The hospital and doctor I mentioned are "Government Hospitals". We
> > >>>> have both Government and Private hospitals here. the major difference
> > >>>> is that for a Thai citizen, they pay 30 baht - about 1 hour's minimum
> > >>>> wages, per visit and anything that the doctor in the Government
> > >>>> Hospital prescribes is covered by that 30 baht. The so called Private
> > >>>> hospitals charges are as much as 10 times, or more, higher.
> > >>> Whoa. I had to look that up, but 30 baht is almost one U.S. dollar for the visit
> > >>> plus all medications!
> > >>>
> > >>> And private hospitals charge nearly $10 per hospital visit? You know, here in
> > >>> the U.S. those charges are a bit higher.
> > >>>
> > >>> - Frank Krygowski
> > >>
> > >> John did also say "they pay 30 baht - about 1 hour's minimum wages,"
> > >>
> > >> So $1 per hour is the minimum wage in Thailand. Here in the US of A it
> > >> is $7.25. I suspect many folks would be dancing in the streets if they
> > >> could only get a charge of $72.50 for a doctor office visit.
> > >>
> > >
> > > I’d be quite pissed off at the sudden increase in cost.
> > But Real Americans don't want none of that socialism! We LIKE giving
> > our money to maintain the Health Care executive yachts!
> >
> > So what if our health is way worse than so many other countries? WE'RE
> > NUMBER ONE! (In costs.)
> Nothing but complaints that after spending your life not having to work, you don't have anything to show for it. Jobst did very well for himself.

And you make this statement based on what evidence? Did you personally know Jobst Brandt? Talk to him in person for many years? Brandt was famous in certain circles. He wrote a highly acclaimed book on wheel building. I do not know if this generated an enormous amount of money or not. I am associating money with "well". Bicycle wheel building books probably are not flying off the shelves at book stores or Amazon. He was a college professor and likely had engineer jobs outside of academia too. Did these provide success, joy? Did he have a family? Friends? Judging whether someone did "very well" takes a lot of information.

One more question Tommy. How did Jobst Brandt get added into this thread? Was this thread about wheel building? Was this thread about touring the Alps using only a Carradice bag as a luggage carrier?

George Washington was the greatest general in US history!!!!!! Ooh Ooh Ooh!!!!! I just did a Tommy and added in a completely irrelevant topic!!!!!!

What was the reason you decided to go into a fiend that had poor pay and even more poor benefits?

On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 12:39:32 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
> On 2/17/2022 10:04 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 6:34:14 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >>
> >> For Remington Arms, the charges alleged incitement in their
> >> advertising, an unique CT statute and I agree it was poorly
> >> done (although I didn't see it as criminal, merely stupid. I
> >> am not a CT legislator).
> >>
> >> Trouble is, Remington Arms is in bankruptcy (a regular
> >> process in the boom-bust arms industry) so the four
> >> insurance carriers decided it was in their best interests to
> >> settle. I do not know their analyses. Nor do you.
> >>
> >> Interesting side note: The AR-15 style rifle was chambered
> >> .22LR.
> >
> > Fired fast enough, .22 LR can kill a lot of kids.
> >
> > - Frank Krygowski
> >
> I saw some disconnect between the lawsuit's emphasis on the
> word 'combat' in the ad (no assertion that Ms Lanza ever saw
> that ad) and the actual firearm with a .22 rimfire format.
> Interesting side note only.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Well......the M-16 and many of the AR-15 style rifles is chambered in .223 (5.56 NATO). So it is sort of the exact same diameter bullet. .22 compared to .223. Almost identical diameter bullet. There are of course one or maybe even two other differences between a .22 rimfire (short or long or long rifle or Magnum) and a .223 center fire.

On Fri, 18 Feb 2022 01:40:35 -0800 (PST), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
<ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 10:01:31 PM UTC-6, frkr...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 5:45:20 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
>> >
>> > The hospital and doctor I mentioned are "Government Hospitals". We
>> > have both Government and Private hospitals here. the major difference
>> > is that for a Thai citizen, they pay 30 baht - about 1 hour's minimum
>> > wages, per visit and anything that the doctor in the Government
>> > Hospital prescribes is covered by that 30 baht. The so called Private
>> > hospitals charges are as much as 10 times, or more, higher.
>> Whoa. I had to look that up, but 30 baht is almost one U.S. dollar for the visit
>> plus all medications!
>>
>> And private hospitals charge nearly $10 per hospital visit? You know, here in
>> the U.S. those charges are a bit higher.
>>
>> - Frank Krygowski
>
>John did also say "they pay 30 baht - about 1 hour's minimum wages,"
>
>So $1 per hour is the minimum wage in Thailand. Here in the US of A it is $7.25. I suspect many folks would be dancing in the streets if they could only get a charge of $72.50 for a doctor office visit.

The current exchange rate (just looked it up) is 32,25 baht = 1
dollar. Minimum wage here has been 300 baht a day for several years.
However the work day is not specified as 8 hours but it is an
approximation of what many people work so yes a visit to a Public
Hospital is abbot 1 hour's wages. and for the elderly, over 60, it is
free.

But having said that I might add that the average tip to a bloke who
pushes your supermarket cart out to your car and unloads it for you is
about 20 baht.

So, in those terms 30 baht is just a bit more then you would tip the
"carryboy".
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 5:26:21 PM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Feb 2022 01:40:35 -0800 (PST), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 10:01:31 PM UTC-6, frkr...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 5:45:20 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
> >> >
> >> > The hospital and doctor I mentioned are "Government Hospitals". We
> >> > have both Government and Private hospitals here. the major difference
> >> > is that for a Thai citizen, they pay 30 baht - about 1 hour's minimum
> >> > wages, per visit and anything that the doctor in the Government
> >> > Hospital prescribes is covered by that 30 baht. The so called Private
> >> > hospitals charges are as much as 10 times, or more, higher.
> >> Whoa. I had to look that up, but 30 baht is almost one U.S. dollar for the visit
> >> plus all medications!
> >>
> >> And private hospitals charge nearly $10 per hospital visit? You know, here in
> >> the U.S. those charges are a bit higher.
> >>
> >> - Frank Krygowski
> >
> >John did also say "they pay 30 baht - about 1 hour's minimum wages,"
> >
> >So $1 per hour is the minimum wage in Thailand. Here in the US of A it is $7.25. I suspect many folks would be dancing in the streets if they could only get a charge of $72.50 for a doctor office visit.
> The current exchange rate (just looked it up) is 32,25 baht = 1
> dollar. Minimum wage here has been 300 baht a day for several years.
> However the work day is not specified as 8 hours but it is an
> approximation of what many people work so yes a visit to a Public
> Hospital is abbot 1 hour's wages. and for the elderly, over 60, it is
> free.
>
> But having said that I might add that the average tip to a bloke who
> pushes your supermarket cart out to your car and unloads it for you is
> about 20 baht.

You better not come back to the USA John. The grocery cart boy pushing the cart out to the car and unloading it is NOT done in the USA anymore. At least not at any grocery store I have ever visited. Maybe it might still be done for ancient grandma in one or two very rural towns out in the hinterlands. But not in 99.99% of towns and cities. There are no full service gas stations anymore either. No one but you pumps your gas to your car.

>
> So, in those terms 30 baht is just a bit more then you would tip the
> "carryboy".
> --
> Cheers,
>
> John B.

On Fri, 18 Feb 2022 02:10:45 -0800 (PST), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
<ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 11:56:43 PM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
>> On Thu, 17 Feb 2022 20:04:26 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
>> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 6:34:14 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> >>
>> >> For Remington Arms, the charges alleged incitement in their
>> >> advertising, an unique CT statute and I agree it was poorly
>> >> done (although I didn't see it as criminal, merely stupid. I
>> >> am not a CT legislator).
>> >>
>> >> Trouble is, Remington Arms is in bankruptcy (a regular
>> >> process in the boom-bust arms industry) so the four
>> >> insurance carriers decided it was in their best interests to
>> >> settle. I do not know their analyses. Nor do you.
>> >>
>> >> Interesting side note: The AR-15 style rifle was chambered
>> >> .22LR.
>> >
>> >Fired fast enough, .22 LR can kill a lot of kids.
>> >
>> >- Frank Krygowski
>> I think that is a fundamental difference between the U.S., today, and
>> some other countries.
>>
>> About a year an Thai Army Sergeant checked a M-16 out of the armory
>> and went into Korat City and first went to a Buddhist Temple and shot
>> some people and then went to a large shopping complex and shot some
>> more. The final score was 30 dead and (I believe) 50 wounded.
>>
>> And nobody even mentioned the rifle, rather the entire blame was
>> placed squarely on the shoulders of the guy that did the shooting. In
>> the U.S., as in the case of the Remington Rifle, the blame seems to be
>> somehow attributed to the inert object rather then the human that
>> actually did the deed.
>
>I am assuming your second "paragraph" above should be "About a year ago a Thai Army Sergeant..."
>
>Thailand (you ae in Thailand right?) has about 70 million people. A little under one fourth the USA population of 330 million. A year ago you had a big mass killing. In the USA we have had a similar mass killing every few years. Double yours in 2017. One and half times more in 2016. Equal to yours in 2007, 2012, 2017. And half or so in many other years.
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shootings_in_the_United_States
>
>Looking at the number of mass killings in the USA, and the body count at each, I'd bet the USA is still way ahead of Thailand in mass killing events. And because the USA is so far ahead of Thailand, we look at why that is so. Is it real easy to do a mass killing in the USA because its so easy to get a good gun to go mass killing with? I bet if Thailand has one or two or three of similar mass killings every single year, then Thailand would also look at why its so easy to do these mass killings. And if its determined that all the perpetrators are using M-16 rifles, then the government might restrict the access to these good mass killing guns. Also, because your mass killing was an Army Sergeant using an Army M-16 rifle, focusing on the gun would be analogous to focusing on the speed or racing car in a crash at the Indianapolis 500 race. The Army M-16 rifle used in wars by soldiers is too good at killing people? Why would you have any questions about the rifle? Access to it by
>an Army Sergeant? No. Ability to take it off base without lots of checks and balances and paperwork and explanations? Yes.

You are rationalizing things. But, if you wish to do that then:

Using your reference there have been, from 1949 until 2018 some 442
killed in mass shootings while during the same period there were
51,613 killed while riding bicycles.

If you want to talk about devices that kill people I do believe that
you really do need to consider bicycles... 116.77 times as many deaths
as deaths in mass shootings. and on an annual basis in 2018 rifles
killed 305 while bicycles killed 854.

I and certainly Andrew have pointed out that homicides committed with
these incredibly dangerious semi-automatic rifles is only a bit more
then half those committed with hands and feet.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8.xls

But, of course, that wasn't the point at all. I was pointing out the
fallacy, in the U.S. of pointing at some inanimate object and saying,
"Gee if we just get rid of those dangerious things, why, there'd be no
crime at all."

>
>>
>> And this attributing a crime to an inert object instead of the
>> individual that actually carried out the act seems to be a relatively
>> recent phenomena,
>
>No. In the USA the government banned machine guns from civilians back in 1934 with the National Firearms Act. The federal government thought that inert object (machine gun) was too deadly for non military to have at their disposal. Mobsters back in the 1920s and 30s thought machine guns were real good at killing people. And they were. Government thought they could reduce the ease of killing by banning that inert object.

Nope, they didn't ban machine guns. Read the act. They required a $100
license to poses a "machine gun"

> When I was growing up we didn't have a lot of
>> shootings but I do remember one as I went to school with the policeman
>> that did the shooting.The "victim" attacked the Cop with a garden hoe
>> and the cop shot him. There was a big to-do and a Grand Jury and the
>> newspapers were full of it and never a mention of a gun at all.
>>
>> The old saying that "guns don't shoot people, people shoot people"
>> really is true.
>
>True. Except its also true that people can shoot LOTS of people if they have a gun that shoots lots of bullets real fast.
>
>
>
>
>> --
>> Cheers,
>>
>> John B.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 18 Feb 2022 07:35:08 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 9:43:11 PM UTC-8, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Thu, 17 Feb 2022 17:12:49 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 3:25:21 PM UTC-8, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >> On Thu, 17 Feb 2022 14:43:49 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>> >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >My mistake, that was a typo which you always find so appalling Endocarditis
>> >> Endocarditis might be a real problem, but not this time:
>> >> <https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/endocarditis/symptoms-causes/syc-20352576>
>> >> I had that problem on Sept 27, 2021. Symptoms were a very mild and
>> >> continuous chest pain centered around the heart. Nothing else. After
>> >> 3 days of mostly ignoring the problem, I was kidnapped by some friends
>> >> and dropped off at the Dominican Hospital ER (emergency room) at
>> >> around midnight. I spent 16 hrs getting tested for most everything
>> >> possible, including covid-19 antibodies, but nothing was found. They
>> >> were going to continue until something could be found when my
>> >> cardiologist arrived and rescued me from might have turned out to be
>> >> endless testing. Over the next 4 days, the pains slowly diminished
>> >> and eventually disappeared not to return. At this time, I have no
>> >> clue what caused it or any certainty that it was endocarditis.
>> >>
>> >> Of course, I asked the hospital doctor and my cardiologist if this was
>> >> in any way connected my previous covid-19 vaccination shots on Apr 3
>> >> and May 1, 2021. Unlikely because they were 6 months ago. I received
>> >> the booster shot on Dec 5, 2021, which is also unlikely unless you
>> >> believe reverse time shift causality inversion.
>> >>
>> >> What I find appalling is that you can't even write a one line
>> >> correction without also insulting the person who found your mistake.
>> >> Everyone makes typo and spelling errors, which would rarely need
>> >> public attention. However, 100% wrong batting average and amazing
>> >> wrong facts deserves some attention in the vain hope that you might do
>> >> something to fix the problem.
>> >>
>> >> Incidentally, you forgot to provide a link to the JAMA article you
>> >> mentioned.
>>
>> >https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/circ.144.suppl_1.10712 Abstract 10712: Mrna COVID Vaccines Dramatically Increase Endothelial Inflammatory Markers and ACS Risk as Measured by the PULS Cardiac Test: a Warning
>> That's from AHA, not from JAMA. I'm interested in the JAMA article
>> you mentioned because it allegedly claims:
>> "... latest papers in the Journal of the American Medical Association
>> are showing over a doubling of the chance of a heart attack for anyone
>> that took the mRNA vaccines."
>> I wanted to read all about this doubled risk, not about failed wonder
>> drugs and treatments from other sources. If you're going to cite an
>> unspecified article in JAMA, the least you could do is find the
>> article so others can appreciate your amazing findings.
>>
>> Here's the AHA correction to the above AHA article:
>> <https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIR.0000000000001053>
>> No numbers:
>> "No statistical comparison was done in this observational study."
>> The alarmist warnings have been removed from the abstract due to lack
>> of sufficient data to demonstrate anything.
>> >Or you can get a better explanation of the paper from Dr. Campbell. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEBGl8MVE-c&t=102s
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Campbell_(YouTuber)>
>> See section on his COVID-19 misinformation:
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Campbell_(YouTuber)#COVID-19_misinformation>
>>
>> >Also see http://indepthnh.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/COVID-Report-from-Rep.-Weyler-3.pdf
>>
>> Dr Vladimir Zelenko is not a good source for Covid-19 information:
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Zelenko>
>> His claim to fame was that he was one of the early promoters of the
>> failed hydroxychloroquine treatment for COVID-19.
>>
>> "Has Dr. Zelenko Successfully Treated 669 Coronavirus Patients?"
>> <https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/zelenko-669-coronavirus-patients/>
>> Conclusion: Unproven.
>
>Jeff, why don't you pull a John on us and look it up on Google? I realize that would be a bit novel but you could probably find it down 100 pages since Google does not want real information out in the public.

Well, Tommy, Google, or Wikipedia to be more exact, is, I find, a
rather useful research tool as anyone can post to it. If you believe,
for example, that the earth is flat you are welcome to post such a
statement on "the Wiki"...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth

Of course, there is one weak point, from your viewpoint... That Damned
Wiki wants you to post a reference for every one of the "facts" that
you post, which would be a real handicap for people like you.

For those that care, I find that the facts posted on Wikipedia are
generally correct but the supposition drawn from the facts is
sometimes not quite what I believe it should be (:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 18 Feb 2022 11:39:20 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 2/18/2022 12:56 AM, John B. wrote:
>> On Thu, 17 Feb 2022 20:04:26 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 6:34:14 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>
>>>> For Remington Arms, the charges alleged incitement in their
>>>> advertising, an unique CT statute and I agree it was poorly
>>>> done (although I didn't see it as criminal, merely stupid. I
>>>> am not a CT legislator).
>>>>
>>>> Trouble is, Remington Arms is in bankruptcy (a regular
>>>> process in the boom-bust arms industry) so the four
>>>> insurance carriers decided it was in their best interests to
>>>> settle. I do not know their analyses. Nor do you.
>>>>
>>>> Interesting side note: The AR-15 style rifle was chambered
>>>> .22LR.
>>>
>>> Fired fast enough, .22 LR can kill a lot of kids.
>>>
>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>
>> I think that is a fundamental difference between the U.S., today, and
>> some other countries.
>>
>> About a year an Thai Army Sergeant checked a M-16 out of the armory
>> and went into Korat City and first went to a Buddhist Temple and shot
>> some people and then went to a large shopping complex and shot some
>> more. The final score was 30 dead and (I believe) 50 wounded.
>>
>> And nobody even mentioned the rifle, rather the entire blame was
>> placed squarely on the shoulders of the guy that did the shooting. ...
>
>So a Thai Army Sergeant checked an M-16 out of the armory to do a mass
>shooting. How often does that happen?
>
>I gather that Thailand's gun restrictions are quite a bit tighter than
>those of the U.S. Here in the U.S., if someone wants to do a mass
>shooting, they don't bother with an Army armory. Almost anyone can buy a
>compact, rapid fire highly modifiable combat-optimized gun and blast
>away. That's partly why U.S. gun deaths are many times more common than
>those in Thailand.
>
>Somehow, most Thais seem to do fine with tighter gun restrictions. I
>assume you do as well. Have you ever needed a gun for self defense?
>
>Do you own an AR-style or AK-style rifle?

As usual you dance, adroitly, around the theme. I pointed out that in
the case of a Thai Army Sergeant who shot and killed some 30 people
not a single news report, or for that matter, individual I talked to,
ever even mentioned the type of weapon used. Both the News and
individuals commented only of the fact that "the guy must have been
insane", or words to that effect.

As for not bothering with the Armory? Well, if you are a Senior
Sergeant in the army I suspect that the armory is a very logical place
to find a gun.

But yes, there are stringent rules about gun ownership in Thailand
which doesn't seem to bother the criminals a bit. In fact just the
other day there was a very professional "hit" carried out on an
individual initially referred to as a "foreign businessman" who it
turned out had been in organized crime, in Canada, I believe. The
police have now identified two Canadians who apparently flew in,
acquired pistols, shot the guy and flew back out.

My precis still is that rather then face reality, USians try to
rationalize the facts. No, it really wasn't because the perpetrator
was a rotten, no good, little SOB who tortured cats as a hobby, it was
because he found a gun. "See, it was all the gun's fault!"
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 18 Feb 2022 17:38:43 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman
<roger@sarlet.com> wrote:

>Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> On 2/18/2022 10:52 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:
>>> russellseaton1@yahoo.com <ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 10:01:31 PM UTC-6, frkr...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 5:45:20 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The hospital and doctor I mentioned are "Government Hospitals". We
>>>>>> have both Government and Private hospitals here. the major difference
>>>>>> is that for a Thai citizen, they pay 30 baht - about 1 hour's minimum
>>>>>> wages, per visit and anything that the doctor in the Government
>>>>>> Hospital prescribes is covered by that 30 baht. The so called Private
>>>>>> hospitals charges are as much as 10 times, or more, higher.
>>>>> Whoa. I had to look that up, but 30 baht is almost one U.S. dollar for the visit
>>>>> plus all medications!
>>>>>
>>>>> And private hospitals charge nearly $10 per hospital visit? You know, here in
>>>>> the U.S. those charges are a bit higher.
>>>>>
>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>
>>>> John did also say "they pay 30 baht - about 1 hour's minimum wages,"
>>>>
>>>> So $1 per hour is the minimum wage in Thailand. Here in the US of A it
>>>> is $7.25. I suspect many folks would be dancing in the streets if they
>>>> could only get a charge of $72.50 for a doctor office visit.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I’d be quite pissed off at the sudden increase in cost.
>>
>> But Real Americans don't want none of that socialism! We LIKE giving
>> our money to maintain the Health Care executive yachts!
>>
>> So what if our health is way worse than so many other countries? WE'RE
>> NUMBER ONE! (In costs.)
>>
>>
>I’ve been assured by American colleague’s of my wife over the years that
>we’d of lost the house after the brain Injury, ie lots of scans high
>intensity wards, rehabilitation over the years and so on!
>
>That essentially be bankrupt the idea of keeping one’s job let alone the
>house…
>
>Roger Merriman

I recently looked up the U.S. costs of a broken arm and the article
stated some costs and then went on to say that it "might be as much as
$10,000".
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 18 Feb 2022 12:39:28 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 2/17/2022 10:04 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 6:34:14 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>>
>>> For Remington Arms, the charges alleged incitement in their
>>> advertising, an unique CT statute and I agree it was poorly
>>> done (although I didn't see it as criminal, merely stupid. I
>>> am not a CT legislator).
>>>
>>> Trouble is, Remington Arms is in bankruptcy (a regular
>>> process in the boom-bust arms industry) so the four
>>> insurance carriers decided it was in their best interests to
>>> settle. I do not know their analyses. Nor do you.
>>>
>>> Interesting side note: The AR-15 style rifle was chambered
>>> .22LR.
>>
>> Fired fast enough, .22 LR can kill a lot of kids.
>>
>> - Frank Krygowski
>>
>
>I saw some disconnect between the lawsuit's emphasis on the
>word 'combat' in the ad (no assertion that Ms Lanza ever saw
>that ad) and the actual firearm with a .22 rimfire format.
>Interesting side note only.

Disregarding the ".22 caliber", my own choice would be a 12 gauge
shotgun, either pump or automatic and probably loaded with "buck shot"
as I believe that I can injure, incapacitate, whatever, more people
per round fired then is possible with an AR-whatever.

Wyatt Earp, who probably knew more about firearms then the average
"modern USian" used a shotgun in several of his shootings.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 7:05:28 PM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Feb 2022 02:10:45 -0800 (PST), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 11:56:43 PM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
> >> On Thu, 17 Feb 2022 20:04:26 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
> >> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 6:34:14 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> For Remington Arms, the charges alleged incitement in their
> >> >> advertising, an unique CT statute and I agree it was poorly
> >> >> done (although I didn't see it as criminal, merely stupid. I
> >> >> am not a CT legislator).
> >> >>
> >> >> Trouble is, Remington Arms is in bankruptcy (a regular
> >> >> process in the boom-bust arms industry) so the four
> >> >> insurance carriers decided it was in their best interests to
> >> >> settle. I do not know their analyses. Nor do you.
> >> >>
> >> >> Interesting side note: The AR-15 style rifle was chambered
> >> >> .22LR.
> >> >
> >> >Fired fast enough, .22 LR can kill a lot of kids.
> >> >
> >> >- Frank Krygowski
> >> I think that is a fundamental difference between the U.S., today, and
> >> some other countries.
> >>
> >> About a year an Thai Army Sergeant checked a M-16 out of the armory
> >> and went into Korat City and first went to a Buddhist Temple and shot
> >> some people and then went to a large shopping complex and shot some
> >> more. The final score was 30 dead and (I believe) 50 wounded.
> >>
> >> And nobody even mentioned the rifle, rather the entire blame was
> >> placed squarely on the shoulders of the guy that did the shooting. In
> >> the U.S., as in the case of the Remington Rifle, the blame seems to be
> >> somehow attributed to the inert object rather then the human that
> >> actually did the deed.
> >
> >I am assuming your second "paragraph" above should be "About a year ago a Thai Army Sergeant..."
> >
> >Thailand (you ae in Thailand right?) has about 70 million people. A little under one fourth the USA population of 330 million. A year ago you had a big mass killing. In the USA we have had a similar mass killing every few years. Double yours in 2017. One and half times more in 2016. Equal to yours in 2007, 2012, 2017. And half or so in many other years.
> >
> >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shootings_in_the_United_States
> >
> >Looking at the number of mass killings in the USA, and the body count at each, I'd bet the USA is still way ahead of Thailand in mass killing events. And because the USA is so far ahead of Thailand, we look at why that is so. Is it real easy to do a mass killing in the USA because its so easy to get a good gun to go mass killing with? I bet if Thailand has one or two or three of similar mass killings every single year, then Thailand would also look at why its so easy to do these mass killings. And if its determined that all the perpetrators are using M-16 rifles, then the government might restrict the access to these good mass killing guns. Also, because your mass killing was an Army Sergeant using an Army M-16 rifle, focusing on the gun would be analogous to focusing on the speed or racing car in a crash at the Indianapolis 500 race. The Army M-16 rifle used in wars by soldiers is too good at killing people? Why would you have any questions about the rifle? Access to it by
> >an Army Sergeant? No. Ability to take it off base without lots of checks and balances and paperwork and explanations? Yes.
> You are rationalizing things. But, if you wish to do that then:
>
> Using your reference there have been, from 1949 until 2018 some 442
> killed in mass shootings while during the same period there were
> 51,613 killed while riding bicycles.
>
> If you want to talk about devices that kill people I do believe that
> you really do need to consider bicycles... 116.77 times as many deaths
> as deaths in mass shootings. and on an annual basis in 2018 rifles
> killed 305 while bicycles killed 854.
>
> I and certainly Andrew have pointed out that homicides committed with
> these incredibly dangerious semi-automatic rifles is only a bit more
> then half those committed with hands and feet.
> https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8.xls
>
> But, of course, that wasn't the point at all. I was pointing out the
> fallacy, in the U.S. of pointing at some inanimate object and saying,
> "Gee if we just get rid of those dangerious things, why, there'd be no
> crime at all."
> >
> >>
> >> And this attributing a crime to an inert object instead of the
> >> individual that actually carried out the act seems to be a relatively
> >> recent phenomena,
> >
> >No. In the USA the government banned machine guns from civilians back in 1934 with the National Firearms Act. The federal government thought that inert object (machine gun) was too deadly for non military to have at their disposal. Mobsters back in the 1920s and 30s thought machine guns were real good at killing people. And they were. Government thought they could reduce the ease of killing by banning that inert object.
> Nope, they didn't ban machine guns. Read the act. They required a $100
> license to poses a "machine gun"

OK. Its $200 for the National Firearms Act stamp. And a whole lot of federal forms and investigation too.
https://www.therange702.com/blog/can-you-legally-own-a-machine-gun/

But the USA licenses and regulates explosives too. Everyone buying, selling, using explosives has to have federal license. Why do we do that? Shouldn't everyone have the right to use explosives whenever they want? Isn't it a constitutional right? Explosives are inert objects too. Why should they be regulated and controlled? I don't recall anytime in history where the bad guys were blowing everyone and everything up with dynamite. FREEDOM to BLOW things UP!!!!!!!!!!!
https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/fact-sheet/fact-sheet-explosives-united-states

Or did some freedom hating government bureaucrat decide to take that freedom away from Americans? He thought blowing things up was not a good thing for the average Joe on the street to do. Even though explosives are an inert object. And do lots of good things in activities like mining. Kind of like M-16 and AR-15 are appropriate for the military to have and use because they are good at killing people. Which the military does. But do bums walking on the street need to be able to kill people so easily? Or blow people and things up easily with explosives?

> > When I was growing up we didn't have a lot of
> >> shootings but I do remember one as I went to school with the policeman
> >> that did the shooting.The "victim" attacked the Cop with a garden hoe
> >> and the cop shot him. There was a big to-do and a Grand Jury and the
> >> newspapers were full of it and never a mention of a gun at all.
> >>
> >> The old saying that "guns don't shoot people, people shoot people"
> >> really is true.
> >
> >True. Except its also true that people can shoot LOTS of people if they have a gun that shoots lots of bullets real fast.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> --
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> John B.
> --
> Cheers,
>
> John B.

John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Feb 2022 17:38:43 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman
> <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
>
>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>> On 2/18/2022 10:52 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:
>>>> russellseaton1@yahoo.com <ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 10:01:31 PM UTC-6, frkr...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 5:45:20 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The hospital and doctor I mentioned are "Government Hospitals". We
>>>>>>> have both Government and Private hospitals here. the major difference
>>>>>>> is that for a Thai citizen, they pay 30 baht - about 1 hour's minimum
>>>>>>> wages, per visit and anything that the doctor in the Government
>>>>>>> Hospital prescribes is covered by that 30 baht. The so called Private
>>>>>>> hospitals charges are as much as 10 times, or more, higher.
>>>>>> Whoa. I had to look that up, but 30 baht is almost one U.S. dollar for the visit
>>>>>> plus all medications!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And private hospitals charge nearly $10 per hospital visit? You know, here in
>>>>>> the U.S. those charges are a bit higher.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>
>>>>> John did also say "they pay 30 baht - about 1 hour's minimum wages,"
>>>>>
>>>>> So $1 per hour is the minimum wage in Thailand. Here in the US of A it
>>>>> is $7.25. I suspect many folks would be dancing in the streets if they
>>>>> could only get a charge of $72.50 for a doctor office visit.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I’d be quite pissed off at the sudden increase in cost.
>>>
>>> But Real Americans don't want none of that socialism! We LIKE giving
>>> our money to maintain the Health Care executive yachts!
>>>
>>> So what if our health is way worse than so many other countries? WE'RE
>>> NUMBER ONE! (In costs.)
>>>
>>>
>> I’ve been assured by American colleague’s of my wife over the years that
>> we’d of lost the house after the brain Injury, ie lots of scans high
>> intensity wards, rehabilitation over the years and so on!
>>
>> That essentially be bankrupt the idea of keeping one’s job let alone the
>> house…
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
> I recently looked up the U.S. costs of a broken arm and the article
> stated some costs and then went on to say that it "might be as much as
> $10,000".

Whereas my daughter’s broken arm a number of years ago cost me $30 (for
parking at the hospital).

On 2/18/2022 7:49 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Feb 2022 17:38:43 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman
> <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
>
>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>> On 2/18/2022 10:52 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:
>>>> russellseaton1@yahoo.com <ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 10:01:31 PM UTC-6, frkr...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 5:45:20 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The hospital and doctor I mentioned are "Government Hospitals". We
>>>>>>> have both Government and Private hospitals here. the major difference
>>>>>>> is that for a Thai citizen, they pay 30 baht - about 1 hour's minimum
>>>>>>> wages, per visit and anything that the doctor in the Government
>>>>>>> Hospital prescribes is covered by that 30 baht. The so called Private
>>>>>>> hospitals charges are as much as 10 times, or more, higher.
>>>>>> Whoa. I had to look that up, but 30 baht is almost one U.S. dollar for the visit
>>>>>> plus all medications!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And private hospitals charge nearly $10 per hospital visit? You know, here in
>>>>>> the U.S. those charges are a bit higher.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>
>>>>> John did also say "they pay 30 baht - about 1 hour's minimum wages,"
>>>>>
>>>>> So $1 per hour is the minimum wage in Thailand. Here in the US of A it
>>>>> is $7.25. I suspect many folks would be dancing in the streets if they
>>>>> could only get a charge of $72.50 for a doctor office visit.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I’d be quite pissed off at the sudden increase in cost.
>>>
>>> But Real Americans don't want none of that socialism! We LIKE giving
>>> our money to maintain the Health Care executive yachts!
>>>
>>> So what if our health is way worse than so many other countries? WE'RE
>>> NUMBER ONE! (In costs.)
>>>
>>>
>> I’ve been assured by American colleague’s of my wife over the years that
>> we’d of lost the house after the brain Injury, ie lots of scans high
>> intensity wards, rehabilitation over the years and so on!
>>
>> That essentially be bankrupt the idea of keeping one’s job let alone the
>> house…
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
> I recently looked up the U.S. costs of a broken arm and the article
> stated some costs and then went on to say that it "might be as much as
> $10,000".
>

Maybe for a simple fracture (wrap and cast) at some
independent rural hospital. Maybe.

This plate and some screws cost $23,000 in 2006:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/WRISTNU.JPG

The entire adventure door-to-door took about 3 hours
including the excruciating entry & paperwork process.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971