On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 00:24:37 -0800 (PST), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
<ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 11:16:57 PM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
>> On Fri, 18 Feb 2022 18:24:16 -0800 (PST), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 7:05:28 PM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
>> >> On Fri, 18 Feb 2022 02:10:45 -0800 (PST), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>> >> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 11:56:43 PM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
>> >> >> On Thu, 17 Feb 2022 20:04:26 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
>> >> >> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 6:34:14 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> For Remington Arms, the charges alleged incitement in their
>> >> >> >> advertising, an unique CT statute and I agree it was poorly
>> >> >> >> done (although I didn't see it as criminal, merely stupid. I
>> >> >> >> am not a CT legislator).
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Trouble is, Remington Arms is in bankruptcy (a regular
>> >> >> >> process in the boom-bust arms industry) so the four
>> >> >> >> insurance carriers decided it was in their best interests to
>> >> >> >> settle. I do not know their analyses. Nor do you.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Interesting side note: The AR-15 style rifle was chambered
>> >> >> >> .22LR.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Fired fast enough, .22 LR can kill a lot of kids.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >- Frank Krygowski
>> >> >> I think that is a fundamental difference between the U.S., today, and
>> >> >> some other countries.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> About a year an Thai Army Sergeant checked a M-16 out of the armory
>> >> >> and went into Korat City and first went to a Buddhist Temple and shot
>> >> >> some people and then went to a large shopping complex and shot some
>> >> >> more. The final score was 30 dead and (I believe) 50 wounded.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> And nobody even mentioned the rifle, rather the entire blame was
>> >> >> placed squarely on the shoulders of the guy that did the shooting. In
>> >> >> the U.S., as in the case of the Remington Rifle, the blame seems to be
>> >> >> somehow attributed to the inert object rather then the human that
>> >> >> actually did the deed.
>> >> >
>> >> >I am assuming your second "paragraph" above should be "About a year ago a Thai Army Sergeant..."
>> >> >
>> >> >Thailand (you ae in Thailand right?) has about 70 million people. A little under one fourth the USA population of 330 million. A year ago you had a big mass killing. In the USA we have had a similar mass killing every few years. Double yours in 2017. One and half times more in 2016. Equal to yours in 2007, 2012, 2017. And half or so in many other years.
>> >> >
>> >> >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shootings_in_the_United_States
>> >> >
>> >> >Looking at the number of mass killings in the USA, and the body count at each, I'd bet the USA is still way ahead of Thailand in mass killing events. And because the USA is so far ahead of Thailand, we look at why that is so. Is it real easy to do a mass killing in the USA because its so easy to get a good gun to go mass killing with? I bet if Thailand has one or two or three of similar mass killings every single year, then Thailand would also look at why its so easy to do these mass killings. And if its determined that all the perpetrators are using M-16 rifles, then the government might restrict the access to these good mass killing guns. Also, because your mass killing was an Army Sergeant using an Army M-16 rifle, focusing on the gun would be analogous to focusing on the speed or racing car in a crash at the Indianapolis 500 race. The Army M-16 rifle used in wars by soldiers is too good at killing people? Why would you have any questions about the rifle? Access to it by
>> >> >an Army Sergeant? No. Ability to take it off base without lots of checks and balances and paperwork and explanations? Yes.
>> >> You are rationalizing things. But, if you wish to do that then:
>> >>
>> >> Using your reference there have been, from 1949 until 2018 some 442
>> >> killed in mass shootings while during the same period there were
>> >> 51,613 killed while riding bicycles.
>> >>
>> >> If you want to talk about devices that kill people I do believe that
>> >> you really do need to consider bicycles... 116.77 times as many deaths
>> >> as deaths in mass shootings. and on an annual basis in 2018 rifles
>> >> killed 305 while bicycles killed 854.
>> >>
>> >> I and certainly Andrew have pointed out that homicides committed with
>> >> these incredibly dangerious semi-automatic rifles is only a bit more
>> >> then half those committed with hands and feet.
>> >> https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8.xls
>> >>
>> >> But, of course, that wasn't the point at all. I was pointing out the
>> >> fallacy, in the U.S. of pointing at some inanimate object and saying,
>> >> "Gee if we just get rid of those dangerious things, why, there'd be no
>> >> crime at all."
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> And this attributing a crime to an inert object instead of the
>> >> >> individual that actually carried out the act seems to be a relatively
>> >> >> recent phenomena,
>> >> >
>> >> >No. In the USA the government banned machine guns from civilians back in 1934 with the National Firearms Act. The federal government thought that inert object (machine gun) was too deadly for non military to have at their disposal. Mobsters back in the 1920s and 30s thought machine guns were real good at killing people. And they were. Government thought they could reduce the ease of killing by banning that inert object.
>> >> Nope, they didn't ban machine guns. Read the act. They required a $100
>> >> license to poses a "machine gun"
>> >
>> >OK. Its $200 for the National Firearms Act stamp. And a whole lot of federal forms and investigation too.
>> >https://www.therange702.com/blog/can-you-legally-own-a-machine-gun/
>> My mistake. I had thought it was $100
>> >
>> >But the USA licenses and regulates explosives too. Everyone buying, selling, using explosives has to have federal license. Why do we do that? Shouldn't everyone have the right to use explosives whenever they want? Isn't it a constitutional right? Explosives are inert objects too. Why should they be regulated and controlled? I don't recall anytime in history where the bad guys were blowing everyone and everything up with dynamite. FREEDOM to BLOW things UP!!!!!!!!!!!
>> >https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/fact-sheet/fact-sheet-explosives-united-states
>> While your reference is certainly true in part is it true in dealing
>> with gun powder? Does one require a license to poses or use gun power
>> either Black or smokeless?
>
>I am sure NO. Since ammunition reloading is a hobby of some shooters in the USA. They buy gunpowder at the local gun shop. I am sure the store selling it has to be licensed. And probably as part of that license it explicitly says you are legally required under liability to notify the government if anyone buys a suspicious amount of gunpowder. Such as if someone buys 100 pounds of nitrocellulose at once or in a small amount of time. Something suspicious.

I just looked it up (which I should have done earlier) and you are
correct any dealer in gun powder needs to have a license to do so.
https://www.mass.gov/how-to/apply-for-a-license-to-sell-black-or-smokeless-powder

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 11:48:08 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 2/18/2022 8:05 PM, John B. wrote:
>>
>> If you want to talk about devices that kill people I do believe that
>> you really do need to consider bicycles... 116.77 times as many deaths
>> as deaths in mass shootings. and on an annual basis in 2018 rifles
>> killed 305 while bicycles killed 854.
>>
>> I and certainly Andrew have pointed out that homicides committed with
>> these incredibly dangerious semi-automatic rifles is only a bit more
>> then half those committed with hands and feet.
>> https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8.xls
>
>Advantages vs. disadvantages, John. Advantages vs. disadvantages.
>
>Bikes offer a big advantage as simple transportation that provides life
>saving exercise. I can post citations to at least five research papers
>that concluded the benefits of bicycling greatly outweigh its risks.
>Some of those were very specific in stating that biking saves many more
>lives than it loses.
>
>The disadvantages of AR style rifles are obvious: dozens of school
>children killed, dozens of night club attendees, dozens of concert
>goers, plus hundreds of others in smaller attacks, plus increased risk
>to law enforcers rushing to shooting incidents.
>
>What are the advantages of AR style rifles compared to traditional
>rifles? Letting guys pretend they could be just like Rambo if "those
>other people" invade?

Yes Frank you keep making statements like that but it seems to be all
supposition.

You have never, at least I can't remember you mentioning it, actually
gone to the range with "those guys", or have you "talked with those
guys" or anything that would make anyone think that you know anything
about "those guys".

So we are left with the assumption that you, perhaps, may have driven
by a shooting range once, or maybe you saw something on Youtube.
And from that extensive experience you have formed your opinions.

In short, you are a bigot. And as you have no facts your bigotry is
based on your very vivid imagination.

bigot ~ a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions
differing from his own

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 12:05:56 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 2/19/2022 12:16 AM, John B. wrote:
>>
>> And "big Magazines" Oh Horrors!
>> But of course the Luger pistol had a 30 round magazine way back in WW
>> I days and several current pistols, the Glock 18 comes standard with a
>> 20 round capacity and 31 round magazines are available and the Glock
>> 17 can also be fitted with a 30 round magazine, and the Kel-Tec PMR 30
>> has a standard capacity of 30 rounds.
>>
>> So, apparently semi automatic rifles aren't inherent scary and 30
>> round magazines aren't scary so why when you combing a small bore semi
>> automatic rifle with a 30 round magazine does it become such a
>> fearsome weapon.
>>
>> I might comment that a full length magazines for a 12 gauge shotguns
>> are available. In fact the "Century Arms Catamount Fury II" is a 12
>> gauge shotgun that comes standard with a 30 round magazine, and I'm
>> pretty sure that 30 rounds of 12 gauge buckshot is are more lethal
>> then 30 rounds of .22 bullets.
>
>Your argument does not prove high capacity magazines are perfectly fine.
>I'd say it indicates the need for laws against high capacity magazines
>on any firearm.
>
>Advantages vs. disadvantages, John! A disadvantage of a high capacity
>magazine is that it enables mass shootings and rapid fire gun battles,
>including between gang members and against cops.
>
>What are the advantages of high capacity magazines for non-criminal gun
>users? Do hunters really need to put more than (say) ten bullets into a
>rabbit or deer? Do target shooters really need fewer pauses to reload?

And you know all this? How?

Are you an experienced target shooter? I am, USAF Rifle and Pistol
Teams, both Base and Major command. In later years I did considerable
Trap Shooting, and participated in many Trap Shooting computations (In
Ohio too).

You are an experienced hunter? I am, I've owned a rifle since I was 12
years old and hunted critters ranging from rabbets to Moose.

In addition I worked as a gun smith for a number of years and as a
result came in contact with a very large number of "shooters".

Now please do tell us your qualifications for your assertions about
"shooters".
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 13:22:30 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 3:15:38 PM UTC-8, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
>> On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 11:06:39 AM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 8:44:19 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> > > On 2/18/2022 10:52 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:
>> > > > russell...@yahoo.com <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > >> On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 10:01:31 PM UTC-6, frkr...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > > >>> On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 5:45:20 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> The hospital and doctor I mentioned are "Government Hospitals". We
>> > > >>>> have both Government and Private hospitals here. the major difference
>> > > >>>> is that for a Thai citizen, they pay 30 baht - about 1 hour's minimum
>> > > >>>> wages, per visit and anything that the doctor in the Government
>> > > >>>> Hospital prescribes is covered by that 30 baht. The so called Private
>> > > >>>> hospitals charges are as much as 10 times, or more, higher.
>> > > >>> Whoa. I had to look that up, but 30 baht is almost one U.S. dollar for the visit
>> > > >>> plus all medications!
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>> And private hospitals charge nearly $10 per hospital visit? You know, here in
>> > > >>> the U.S. those charges are a bit higher.
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>> - Frank Krygowski
>> > > >>
>> > > >> John did also say "they pay 30 baht - about 1 hour's minimum wages,"
>> > > >>
>> > > >> So $1 per hour is the minimum wage in Thailand. Here in the US of A it
>> > > >> is $7.25. I suspect many folks would be dancing in the streets if they
>> > > >> could only get a charge of $72.50 for a doctor office visit.
>> > > >>
>> > > >
>> > > > I’d be quite pissed off at the sudden increase in cost.
>> > > But Real Americans don't want none of that socialism! We LIKE giving
>> > > our money to maintain the Health Care executive yachts!
>> > >
>> > > So what if our health is way worse than so many other countries? WE'RE
>> > > NUMBER ONE! (In costs.)
>> > Nothing but complaints that after spending your life not having to work, you don't have anything to show for it. Jobst did very well for himself.
>> And you make this statement based on what evidence? Did you personally know Jobst Brandt? Talk to him in person for many years? Brandt was famous in certain circles. He wrote a highly acclaimed book on wheel building. I do not know if this generated an enormous amount of money or not. I am associating money with "well". Bicycle wheel building books probably are not flying off the shelves at book stores or Amazon. He was a college professor and likely had engineer jobs outside of academia too. Did these provide success, joy? Did he have a family? Friends? Judging whether someone did "very well" takes a lot of information.
>>
>> One more question Tommy. How did Jobst Brandt get added into this thread? Was this thread about wheel building? Was this thread about touring the Alps using only a Carradice bag as a luggage carrier?
>>
>> George Washington was the greatest general in US history!!!!!! Ooh Ooh Ooh!!!!! I just did a Tommy and added in a completely irrelevant topic!!!!!!
>> What was the reason you decided to go into a fiend that had poor pay and even more poor benefits?
>
>Why would you speak on a subject you know nothing about? I know the sort of retirement pay that teachers get. My wife is a retired teacher and my son-in-law is presently a teacher who has told me what he will be getting when he retires. Do you believe that Frank's income from a no account university is going to be any better than that?
>
>Frank could have worked as an engineer but he didn't. Jobst did and his retirement was like mine - he was independently wealthy. Far more than me since H-P offered a very substantial retirement pay on top of what he could save. I had to save my own retirement money.

I really like that "like mine - he was independently wealthy"!

Yup, a bloke that lives in a cheap house, in a, as he describes it,
slum, whining about the cost of groceries.

What's the word I'm looking for? Idiotic? Yes I like that one:
"a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying
nothing."
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 13:30:43 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 5:15:57 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
>> On Fri, 18 Feb 2022 07:35:08 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 9:43:11 PM UTC-8, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >> On Thu, 17 Feb 2022 17:12:49 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>> >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 3:25:21 PM UTC-8, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >> >> On Thu, 17 Feb 2022 14:43:49 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>> >> >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >My mistake, that was a typo which you always find so appalling Endocarditis
>> >> >> Endocarditis might be a real problem, but not this time:
>> >> >> <https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/endocarditis/symptoms-causes/syc-20352576>
>> >> >> I had that problem on Sept 27, 2021. Symptoms were a very mild and
>> >> >> continuous chest pain centered around the heart. Nothing else. After
>> >> >> 3 days of mostly ignoring the problem, I was kidnapped by some friends
>> >> >> and dropped off at the Dominican Hospital ER (emergency room) at
>> >> >> around midnight. I spent 16 hrs getting tested for most everything
>> >> >> possible, including covid-19 antibodies, but nothing was found. They
>> >> >> were going to continue until something could be found when my
>> >> >> cardiologist arrived and rescued me from might have turned out to be
>> >> >> endless testing. Over the next 4 days, the pains slowly diminished
>> >> >> and eventually disappeared not to return. At this time, I have no
>> >> >> clue what caused it or any certainty that it was endocarditis.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Of course, I asked the hospital doctor and my cardiologist if this was
>> >> >> in any way connected my previous covid-19 vaccination shots on Apr 3
>> >> >> and May 1, 2021. Unlikely because they were 6 months ago. I received
>> >> >> the booster shot on Dec 5, 2021, which is also unlikely unless you
>> >> >> believe reverse time shift causality inversion.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> What I find appalling is that you can't even write a one line
>> >> >> correction without also insulting the person who found your mistake.
>> >> >> Everyone makes typo and spelling errors, which would rarely need
>> >> >> public attention. However, 100% wrong batting average and amazing
>> >> >> wrong facts deserves some attention in the vain hope that you might do
>> >> >> something to fix the problem.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Incidentally, you forgot to provide a link to the JAMA article you
>> >> >> mentioned.
>> >>
>> >> >https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/circ.144.suppl_1.10712 Abstract 10712: Mrna COVID Vaccines Dramatically Increase Endothelial Inflammatory Markers and ACS Risk as Measured by the PULS Cardiac Test: a Warning
>> >> That's from AHA, not from JAMA. I'm interested in the JAMA article
>> >> you mentioned because it allegedly claims:
>> >> "... latest papers in the Journal of the American Medical Association
>> >> are showing over a doubling of the chance of a heart attack for anyone
>> >> that took the mRNA vaccines."
>> >> I wanted to read all about this doubled risk, not about failed wonder
>> >> drugs and treatments from other sources. If you're going to cite an
>> >> unspecified article in JAMA, the least you could do is find the
>> >> article so others can appreciate your amazing findings.
>> >>
>> >> Here's the AHA correction to the above AHA article:
>> >> <https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIR.0000000000001053>
>> >> No numbers:
>> >> "No statistical comparison was done in this observational study."
>> >> The alarmist warnings have been removed from the abstract due to lack
>> >> of sufficient data to demonstrate anything.
>> >> >Or you can get a better explanation of the paper from Dr. Campbell. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEBGl8MVE-c&t=102s
>> >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Campbell_(YouTuber)>
>> >> See section on his COVID-19 misinformation:
>> >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Campbell_(YouTuber)#COVID-19_misinformation>
>> >>
>> >> >Also see http://indepthnh.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/COVID-Report-from-Rep.-Weyler-3.pdf
>> >>
>> >> Dr Vladimir Zelenko is not a good source for Covid-19 information:
>> >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Zelenko>
>> >> His claim to fame was that he was one of the early promoters of the
>> >> failed hydroxychloroquine treatment for COVID-19.
>> >>
>> >> "Has Dr. Zelenko Successfully Treated 669 Coronavirus Patients?"
>> >> <https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/zelenko-669-coronavirus-patients/>
>> >> Conclusion: Unproven.
>> >
>> >Jeff, why don't you pull a John on us and look it up on Google? I realize that would be a bit novel but you could probably find it down 100 pages since Google does not want real information out in the public.
>> Well, Tommy, Google, or Wikipedia to be more exact, is, I find, a
>> rather useful research tool as anyone can post to it. If you believe,
>> for example, that the earth is flat you are welcome to post such a
>> statement on "the Wiki"...
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth
>>
>> Of course, there is one weak point, from your viewpoint... That Damned
>> Wiki wants you to post a reference for every one of the "facts" that
>> you post, which would be a real handicap for people like you.
>>
>> For those that care, I find that the facts posted on Wikipedia are
>> generally correct but the supposition drawn from the facts is
>> sometimes not quite what I believe it should be (:-)
>
>John, there is nothing wrong with looking things up on Google. But
since Google has an extremely sharp political bias you are more likely
to completely miss the story than get the one. My complaint is that
you think that looking it up on Google somehow makes you an expert
when most of the time it gives you no more than a hint of the truth.

You are simply echoing what I said that, "the facts posted on
Wikipedia are generally correct but the supposition drawn from the
facts is sometimes not quite what I believe it should be"

As for looking things up, on any source, I suppose the difference is
that I do and you don't. Of if you do you quote someone who has a
reputation for false reporting, as Jeff so frequently points out.

No Tommy you simply prove Fancis Bacon correct, some 4 hundred years
ago, when he said "Fools believe only what they want to be true" or
words to the effect.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 5:23:08 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 12:05:56 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> >On 2/19/2022 12:16 AM, John B. wrote:
> >>
> >> And "big Magazines" Oh Horrors!
> >> But of course the Luger pistol had a 30 round magazine way back in WW
> >> I days and several current pistols, the Glock 18 comes standard with a
> >> 20 round capacity and 31 round magazines are available and the Glock
> >> 17 can also be fitted with a 30 round magazine, and the Kel-Tec PMR 30
> >> has a standard capacity of 30 rounds.
> >>
> >> So, apparently semi automatic rifles aren't inherent scary and 30
> >> round magazines aren't scary so why when you combing a small bore semi
> >> automatic rifle with a 30 round magazine does it become such a
> >> fearsome weapon.
> >>
> >> I might comment that a full length magazines for a 12 gauge shotguns
> >> are available. In fact the "Century Arms Catamount Fury II" is a 12
> >> gauge shotgun that comes standard with a 30 round magazine, and I'm
> >> pretty sure that 30 rounds of 12 gauge buckshot is are more lethal
> >> then 30 rounds of .22 bullets.
> >
> >Your argument does not prove high capacity magazines are perfectly fine.
> >I'd say it indicates the need for laws against high capacity magazines
> >on any firearm.
> >
> >Advantages vs. disadvantages, John! A disadvantage of a high capacity
> >magazine is that it enables mass shootings and rapid fire gun battles,
> >including between gang members and against cops.
> >
> >What are the advantages of high capacity magazines for non-criminal gun
> >users? Do hunters really need to put more than (say) ten bullets into a
> >rabbit or deer? Do target shooters really need fewer pauses to reload?
> And you know all this? How?
>
> Are you an experienced target shooter? I am, USAF Rifle and Pistol
> Teams, both Base and Major command. In later years I did considerable
> Trap Shooting, and participated in many Trap Shooting computations (In
> Ohio too).
>
> You are an experienced hunter? I am, I've owned a rifle since I was 12
> years old and hunted critters ranging from rabbets to Moose.
>
> In addition I worked as a gun smith for a number of years and as a
> result came in contact with a very large number of "shooters".

I don't doubt that you've done what you say. Therefore, you should be able to answer my question!
What are the great advantages of 30 round magazines? Who needs them? Why?

(Besides people in combat or pretend combat, that is.)

The disadvantages seem obvious: abetting mass shootings. What are the real advantages?

Your answer?

- Frank Krygowski

On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 19:50:25 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 5:23:08 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 12:05:56 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>> >On 2/19/2022 12:16 AM, John B. wrote:
>> >>
>> >> And "big Magazines" Oh Horrors!
>> >> But of course the Luger pistol had a 30 round magazine way back in WW
>> >> I days and several current pistols, the Glock 18 comes standard with a
>> >> 20 round capacity and 31 round magazines are available and the Glock
>> >> 17 can also be fitted with a 30 round magazine, and the Kel-Tec PMR 30
>> >> has a standard capacity of 30 rounds.
>> >>
>> >> So, apparently semi automatic rifles aren't inherent scary and 30
>> >> round magazines aren't scary so why when you combing a small bore semi
>> >> automatic rifle with a 30 round magazine does it become such a
>> >> fearsome weapon.
>> >>
>> >> I might comment that a full length magazines for a 12 gauge shotguns
>> >> are available. In fact the "Century Arms Catamount Fury II" is a 12
>> >> gauge shotgun that comes standard with a 30 round magazine, and I'm
>> >> pretty sure that 30 rounds of 12 gauge buckshot is are more lethal
>> >> then 30 rounds of .22 bullets.
>> >
>> >Your argument does not prove high capacity magazines are perfectly fine.
>> >I'd say it indicates the need for laws against high capacity magazines
>> >on any firearm.
>> >
>> >Advantages vs. disadvantages, John! A disadvantage of a high capacity
>> >magazine is that it enables mass shootings and rapid fire gun battles,
>> >including between gang members and against cops.
>> >
>> >What are the advantages of high capacity magazines for non-criminal gun
>> >users? Do hunters really need to put more than (say) ten bullets into a
>> >rabbit or deer? Do target shooters really need fewer pauses to reload?
>> And you know all this? How?
>>
>> Are you an experienced target shooter? I am, USAF Rifle and Pistol
>> Teams, both Base and Major command. In later years I did considerable
>> Trap Shooting, and participated in many Trap Shooting computations (In
>> Ohio too).
>>
>> You are an experienced hunter? I am, I've owned a rifle since I was 12
>> years old and hunted critters ranging from rabbets to Moose.
>>
>> In addition I worked as a gun smith for a number of years and as a
>> result came in contact with a very large number of "shooters".
>
>I don't doubt that you've done what you say. Therefore, you should be able to answer my question!
>What are the great advantages of 30 round magazines? Who needs them? Why?
>
>(Besides people in combat or pretend combat, that is.)
>
>The disadvantages seem obvious: abetting mass shootings. What are the real advantages?
>
>Your answer?
>
>- Frank Krygowski

Well, I guess the most obvious answer is "because someone wants one".
Rather like the answer "why does someone want a plastic bicycle?" Or
Why does one want a bicycle at all?"

You argue that "big magazines abetting mass shootings" and yet
statistics don't seem to justify that statement.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/476409/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-weapon-types-used/
Rifles were used in 26% of the shootings and pistols in 61%
So shouldn't you be crying about pistols.

Or FBI data which shows that in 2019 pistols were used in 62% of all
shooting homicides.
In fact the same statistics show that only 3% of shooting homicides
were carried out with rifles which might, or might not, have large
magazines.

As I said, you are becoming a Crotchety Old Man and rather then argue
facts you continue with these "delusions" - there is no other name for
them - just as Tom does.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 11:29:11 AM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 2/18/2022 9:03 PM, John B. wrote:
> >
> > Disregarding the ".22 caliber", my own choice would be a 12 gauge
> > shotgun, either pump or automatic and probably loaded with "buck shot"
> > as I believe that I can injure, incapacitate, whatever, more people
> > per round fired then is possible with an AR-whatever.
> And I agree. A shotgun is much more logical than an AR for home defense
> - not that I need either for that purpose.
>
> But shotguns don't make a guy feel like Rambo.
> --
> - Frank Krygowski

The Remington 870 pump shotgun ONLY allows a maximum of about 9 shells on a special model. 5 or 6 shells on most pump shotguns. Rambo would have had to spend half the movie reloading his shotgun instead of killing an endless line of people. If he was using a shotgun. And if you only have 5 or 6 shells in your pump shotgun, how are you going to kill the 7th killer breaking into your house to kill you? With an AR-15 you can get 20 or 30 round magazines. And everyone knows its far far far far far more likely that 7 people will come to kill you than it is for 21 or 31 people to come kill you..

On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 3:22:34 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 3:15:38 PM UTC-8, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 11:06:39 AM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 8:44:19 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > On 2/18/2022 10:52 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:
> > > > > russell...@yahoo.com <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >> On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 10:01:31 PM UTC-6, frkr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > >>> On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 5:45:20 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> The hospital and doctor I mentioned are "Government Hospitals".. We
> > > > >>>> have both Government and Private hospitals here. the major difference
> > > > >>>> is that for a Thai citizen, they pay 30 baht - about 1 hour's minimum
> > > > >>>> wages, per visit and anything that the doctor in the Government
> > > > >>>> Hospital prescribes is covered by that 30 baht. The so called Private
> > > > >>>> hospitals charges are as much as 10 times, or more, higher.
> > > > >>> Whoa. I had to look that up, but 30 baht is almost one U.S. dollar for the visit
> > > > >>> plus all medications!
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> And private hospitals charge nearly $10 per hospital visit? You know, here in
> > > > >>> the U.S. those charges are a bit higher.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> - Frank Krygowski
> > > > >>
> > > > >> John did also say "they pay 30 baht - about 1 hour's minimum wages,"
> > > > >>
> > > > >> So $1 per hour is the minimum wage in Thailand. Here in the US of A it
> > > > >> is $7.25. I suspect many folks would be dancing in the streets if they
> > > > >> could only get a charge of $72.50 for a doctor office visit.
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > > I’d be quite pissed off at the sudden increase in cost.
> > > > But Real Americans don't want none of that socialism! We LIKE giving
> > > > our money to maintain the Health Care executive yachts!
> > > >
> > > > So what if our health is way worse than so many other countries? WE'RE
> > > > NUMBER ONE! (In costs.)
> > > Nothing but complaints that after spending your life not having to work, you don't have anything to show for it. Jobst did very well for himself..
> > And you make this statement based on what evidence? Did you personally know Jobst Brandt? Talk to him in person for many years? Brandt was famous in certain circles. He wrote a highly acclaimed book on wheel building. I do not know if this generated an enormous amount of money or not. I am associating money with "well". Bicycle wheel building books probably are not flying off the shelves at book stores or Amazon. He was a college professor and likely had engineer jobs outside of academia too. Did these provide success, joy? Did he have a family? Friends? Judging whether someone did "very well" takes a lot of information.
> >
> > One more question Tommy. How did Jobst Brandt get added into this thread? Was this thread about wheel building? Was this thread about touring the Alps using only a Carradice bag as a luggage carrier?
> >
> > George Washington was the greatest general in US history!!!!!! Ooh Ooh Ooh!!!!! I just did a Tommy and added in a completely irrelevant topic!!!!!!
> > What was the reason you decided to go into a fiend that had poor pay and even more poor benefits?
>
> Why would you speak on a subject you know nothing about? I know the sort of retirement pay that teachers get. My wife is a retired teacher and my son-in-law is presently a teacher who has told me what he will be getting when he retires. Do you believe that Frank's income from a no account university is going to be any better than that?
>
> Frank could have worked as an engineer but he didn't. Jobst did and his retirement was like mine - he was independently wealthy. Far more than me since H-P offered a very substantial retirement pay on top of what he could save. I had to save my own retirement money.

Tommy, did you personally know Jobst Brandt and had personal knowledge of his retirement, wealth, savings, etc.? You seem to speak about it a lot, for some reason.

On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 3:25:46 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 3:20:52 PM UTC-8, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 12:39:32 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
> > > On 2/17/2022 10:04 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 6:34:14 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> For Remington Arms, the charges alleged incitement in their
> > > >> advertising, an unique CT statute and I agree it was poorly
> > > >> done (although I didn't see it as criminal, merely stupid. I
> > > >> am not a CT legislator).
> > > >>
> > > >> Trouble is, Remington Arms is in bankruptcy (a regular
> > > >> process in the boom-bust arms industry) so the four
> > > >> insurance carriers decided it was in their best interests to
> > > >> settle. I do not know their analyses. Nor do you.
> > > >>
> > > >> Interesting side note: The AR-15 style rifle was chambered
> > > >> .22LR.
> > > >
> > > > Fired fast enough, .22 LR can kill a lot of kids.
> > > >
> > > > - Frank Krygowski
> > > >
> > > I saw some disconnect between the lawsuit's emphasis on the
> > > word 'combat' in the ad (no assertion that Ms Lanza ever saw
> > > that ad) and the actual firearm with a .22 rimfire format.
> > > Interesting side note only.
> > > --
> > > Andrew Muzi
> > > <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> > > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> > Well......the M-16 and many of the AR-15 style rifles is chambered in .223 (5.56 NATO). So it is sort of the exact same diameter bullet. .22 compared to .223. Almost identical diameter bullet. There are of course one or maybe even two other differences between a .22 rimfire (short or long or long rifle or Magnum) and a .223 center fire.
>
> Such as a bullet with four times the weight and a cartridge with 5 times the powder? Please quit talking about things you don't know about. The only difference between a .223 and a .308 is accurate range.

Tommy, a .22 rimfire bullet and a .223 center fire bullet have essentially the exact same diameter bullet. Little under 1/4 inch diameter.

On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 12:51:58 AM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 19:50:25 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 5:23:08 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
> >> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 12:05:56 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> >> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On 2/19/2022 12:16 AM, John B. wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> And "big Magazines" Oh Horrors!
> >> >> But of course the Luger pistol had a 30 round magazine way back in WW
> >> >> I days and several current pistols, the Glock 18 comes standard with a
> >> >> 20 round capacity and 31 round magazines are available and the Glock
> >> >> 17 can also be fitted with a 30 round magazine, and the Kel-Tec PMR 30
> >> >> has a standard capacity of 30 rounds.
> >> >>
> >> >> So, apparently semi automatic rifles aren't inherent scary and 30
> >> >> round magazines aren't scary so why when you combing a small bore semi
> >> >> automatic rifle with a 30 round magazine does it become such a
> >> >> fearsome weapon.
> >> >>
> >> >> I might comment that a full length magazines for a 12 gauge shotguns
> >> >> are available. In fact the "Century Arms Catamount Fury II" is a 12
> >> >> gauge shotgun that comes standard with a 30 round magazine, and I'm
> >> >> pretty sure that 30 rounds of 12 gauge buckshot is are more lethal
> >> >> then 30 rounds of .22 bullets.
> >> >
> >> >Your argument does not prove high capacity magazines are perfectly fine.
> >> >I'd say it indicates the need for laws against high capacity magazines
> >> >on any firearm.
> >> >
> >> >Advantages vs. disadvantages, John! A disadvantage of a high capacity
> >> >magazine is that it enables mass shootings and rapid fire gun battles,
> >> >including between gang members and against cops.
> >> >
> >> >What are the advantages of high capacity magazines for non-criminal gun
> >> >users? Do hunters really need to put more than (say) ten bullets into a
> >> >rabbit or deer? Do target shooters really need fewer pauses to reload?
> >> And you know all this? How?
> >>
> >> Are you an experienced target shooter? I am, USAF Rifle and Pistol
> >> Teams, both Base and Major command. In later years I did considerable
> >> Trap Shooting, and participated in many Trap Shooting computations (In
> >> Ohio too).
> >>
> >> You are an experienced hunter? I am, I've owned a rifle since I was 12
> >> years old and hunted critters ranging from rabbets to Moose.
> >>
> >> In addition I worked as a gun smith for a number of years and as a
> >> result came in contact with a very large number of "shooters".
> >
> >I don't doubt that you've done what you say. Therefore, you should be able to answer my question!
> >What are the great advantages of 30 round magazines? Who needs them? Why?
> >
> >(Besides people in combat or pretend combat, that is.)
> >
> >The disadvantages seem obvious: abetting mass shootings. What are the real advantages?
> >
> >Your answer?
> >
> >- Frank Krygowski
> Well, I guess the most obvious answer is "because someone wants one".
> Rather like the answer "why does someone want a plastic bicycle?" Or
> Why does one want a bicycle at all?"
>
> You argue that "big magazines abetting mass shootings" and yet
> statistics don't seem to justify that statement.
> https://www.statista.com/statistics/476409/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-weapon-types-used/
> Rifles were used in 26% of the shootings and pistols in 61%
> So shouldn't you be crying about pistols.
>
> Or FBI data which shows that in 2019 pistols were used in 62% of all
> shooting homicides.
> In fact the same statistics show that only 3% of shooting homicides
> were carried out with rifles which might, or might not, have large
> magazines.
>
> As I said, you are becoming a Crotchety Old Man and rather then argue
> facts you continue with these "delusions" - there is no other name for
> them - just as Tom does.
> --
> Cheers,
>
> John B.

Frank did say "abetting mass shootings".
This from Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shootings_in_the_United_States
"Gun Violence Archive, frequently cited by the press, defines a mass shooting as firearm violence resulting in at least four people being shot at roughly the same time and location, excluding the perpetrator. Using this definition, there have been 2,128 mass shootings since 2013, roughly one per day.."
"The United States has had more mass shootings than any other country."
"Several types of guns have been used in mass shootings in the United States. A 2014 study conducted by Dr. James Fox of 142 shootings found that 88 (62%) were committed with handguns of all types; 68 (48%) with semi-automatic handguns, 20 (14%) with revolvers, 35 (25%) with semi-automatic rifles, and 19 (13%) with shotguns. The study was conducted using the Mother Jones database of mass shootings from 1982 to 2018. High capacity magazines were used in approximately half of mass shootings. Semi-automatic rifles have been used in six of the ten deadliest mass shooting events."

Key points in the above quotes are (1) "High capacity magazines were used in approximately half of mass shootings." AND (2) "Semi-automatic rifles have been used in six of the ten DEADLIEST mass shooting events."

The best (worst) mass shooting in the USA was the Las Vegas concert hotel killing in 2017. 60 dead.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Las_Vegas_shooting
"Twenty-four firearms, a large quantity of ammunition, and numerous high-capacity magazines capable of holding up to 100 rounds apiece were found in the suite.[142][143] Fourteen of the firearms were .223-caliber AR-15-type semi-automatic rifles..........The others were eight .308-caliber AR-10-type rifles.............Paddock was found to have fired a total of 1,058 rounds from fifteen of the firearms: 1,049 from twelve AR-15-style rifles, eight from two AR-10-style rifles, and the round used to kill himself from the Smith & Wesson revolver."

Slightly humorous he used the revolver to kill himself.

On 2/19/2022 6:25 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 2/19/2022 1:19 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 2/19/2022 11:29 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 2/18/2022 9:03 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Disregarding the ".22 caliber", my own choice would be a
>>>> 12 gauge
>>>> shotgun, either pump or automatic and probably loaded with
>>>> "buck shot"
>>>> as I believe that I can injure, incapacitate, whatever,
>>>> more people
>>>> per round fired then is possible with an AR-whatever.
>>>
>>> And I agree. A shotgun is much more logical than an AR for
>>> home defense - not that I need either for that purpose.
>>>
>>> But shotguns don't make a guy feel like Rambo.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> How do you know what other men feel?
>
> I talk to them, Andrew. I have friends who have invited me
> to machine gun shoots, who bragged about doing things there
> like blowing up junk cars and refrigerators. I have a
> non-gun-nut friend who talked about how shooting an AR
> "really makes you feel cool."
>
> What's this pot-bellied dude
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW1LZKJmtbw
> doing at 0:50 to 0:55 and 3:10 to 3:16 if not playing Rambo?
>
>
>

Oh, full auto. I thought we were discussing AR-15.

Full auto rifles are vanishingly rare*. Not all ranges even
allow them. They're a distinct outlier. I have never fired
one but even non-firearms owners can't shut up about the
experience. (a photographer/cyclist I know was enthralled
and overwhelmed when the range officer at a nearby military
base offered her a session with an M4)

Out of roughly 12 million Ohioans, there are about 18,000
full auto (the bulk of which are owned by collectors).
http://metrocosm.com/map-of-federally-regulated-weapons/
(click your state on the interactive map)

p.s. The entire country has under a half million NFA full
auto rifles/pistols altogether:
https://www.nfatca.org/pubs/MG_Count_FOIA_2016.pdf

*And licensed are virtually unknown in crime. Even illegal
full auto rifles are extremely rare in crimes.
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 4:38:36 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 2/19/2022 4:30 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >
> > John, there is nothing wrong with looking things up on Google. But since Google has an extremely sharp political bias...
>
> It's worse than that. Reality itself has a sharp politically bias
> against the far right!

Frank, I'm truly sorry that you cannot face reality. I'm sorry that your opinion about guns was discussed by the founders of this country and your position was laughed off of the board. And the Supreme Court has been forced to review this several times and your position was found to have no merit whatsoever. The world is the way it is and you not only have not the least power to change it but you probably can't even influence your own wife.

On 2/20/2022 2:38 AM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 11:29:11 AM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 2/18/2022 9:03 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>
>>> Disregarding the ".22 caliber", my own choice would be a 12 gauge
>>> shotgun, either pump or automatic and probably loaded with "buck shot"
>>> as I believe that I can injure, incapacitate, whatever, more people
>>> per round fired then is possible with an AR-whatever.
>> And I agree. A shotgun is much more logical than an AR for home defense
>> - not that I need either for that purpose.
>>
>> But shotguns don't make a guy feel like Rambo.
>> --
>> - Frank Krygowski
>
> The Remington 870 pump shotgun ONLY allows a maximum of about 9 shells on a special model. 5 or 6 shells on most pump shotguns. Rambo would have had to spend half the movie reloading his shotgun instead of killing an endless line of people. If he was using a shotgun. And if you only have 5 or 6 shells in your pump shotgun, how are you going to kill the 7th killer breaking into your house to kill you? With an AR-15 you can get 20 or 30 round magazines. And everyone knows its far far far far far more likely that 7 people will come to kill you than it is for 21 or 31 people to come kill you.
>

Well, yes.
But as I noted to a woman looking for advice on a home
defense weapon, the sound of cycling a pump action riot gun
will clear a room. So there's that.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 9:30:49 PM UTC-8, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 15:27:35 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 2:32:14 PM UTC-8, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Fri, 18 Feb 2022 07:35:08 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Jeff, why don't you pull a John on us and look it up on Google? I realize that would be a bit novel but you could probably find it down 100 pages since Google does not want real information out in the public.
> >> I already did. You said:
> >>
> >> >"... latest papers in the Journal of the American Medical Association
> >> > are showing over a doubling of the chance of a heart attack for anyone
> >> > that took the mRNA vaccines."
> >> Using Google search, I found and posted a link to latest JAMA issue
> >> at:
> >> <https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/currentissue>
> >> which allegedly contains an article verifying YOUR claim of increased
> >> chance of heart attack risk. Since it was YOUR claim, YOUR reference
> >> and YOUR allegation, I though it best if YOU would supply the
> >> necessary URL so that I could read the article which inspired your
> >> expert medical opinion.
> >>
> >> Since you can't seem to find the JAMA article, and have only been able
> >> to supply a rather different article from the AHA, it would seem to be
> >> that the JAMA article is yet another one of your fabrications intended
> >> to support one of your claims.
> >>
> >> Please note that I'm not writing to verify YOUR claims. I write to
> >> debunk them. You can do YOUR own research and provide YOUR own
> >> substantiations and references.
>
> >So I give you a more complete study from a more than reputable source and you cry because I didn't give you a much smaller study from JAMA because you don't know how to find it? Every posting shows your almost entire ignorance of anything and everything. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2788346?resultClick=1
> >
> >Strange that you say I fabricated a study when you are incapable of even finding the work of major studies. Why is that? Do you need you hand held and be led through everything there is? This is why I spent 50 years in major science and you spent time with "marine radios".
> Thank you for the JAMA article titled:
> "Myocarditis Cases Reported After mRNA-Based COVID-19 Vaccination in
> the US From December 2020 to August 2021"
> It didn't come from the "latest papers in the JAMA, but that's ok. It
> also refers to myocarditis and not to myocardial infarction (heart
> attack) which are very different maladies. The article is highly
> speculative because its sole source is the VAERS "national passive
> reporting system" and is therefore neither authoritative or reliable:
> <https://vaers.hhs.gov/about.html>
> "VAERS is a passive reporting system, meaning it relies on individuals
> to send in reports of their experiences to CDC and FDA. VAERS is not
> designed to determine if a vaccine caused a health problem..."
> It would be helpful if you avoided using crowd sourced data to
> substantiate your amazing claims.
>
> Again, it is not my responsibility to search for a report upon which
> you based one of your amazing claims. If you want to make a point and
> back it up with a source, it's your responsibility to provide a link
> to the source, not mine.

Jeff, you don't know a thing and yet you continue your idiotic attack. Do you even know what "passive reporting" means? The reporting form could be submitted by individuals but would promptly be thrown out since they couldn't possibly know the extremely technical terms for the many possible illnesses that could be responsible tor myocarditis or be responsible for the deaths of the children MOSTLY of military age that had the vaccines forced upon them by your mentally ill Democrats.

This means that the VAERS forms must be properly filled out by doctors or possibly by heart specialist nurses. It takes a lot of time that they don't have an so MOST of the cases go unreported. They were getting $50,000 per reported case of covid-19 and it was well worth their while to say that PCR tests showed positive for covid-19 despite the fact that it did no such thing.

But they are NOT doing this for myocarditis in young people.

So these cases are extremely under-reported. What's more, the statistics appear to include the entire vaccinated population when people over the age of 40 RARELY if ever get myocarditis. This means that the Israeli report of chances of myocarditis in the age group that is subject to it is far greater than the 133 times normal stated in the rather poorly done paper.

Your sickness is plainly getting the better of you and you will soon be leaving us for greener pastures in your hope but plainly it will be much warmer climes.

On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 12:39:02 AM UTC-8, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 11:29:11 AM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 2/18/2022 9:03 PM, John B. wrote:
> > >
> > > Disregarding the ".22 caliber", my own choice would be a 12 gauge
> > > shotgun, either pump or automatic and probably loaded with "buck shot"
> > > as I believe that I can injure, incapacitate, whatever, more people
> > > per round fired then is possible with an AR-whatever.
> > And I agree. A shotgun is much more logical than an AR for home defense
> > - not that I need either for that purpose.
> >
> > But shotguns don't make a guy feel like Rambo.
> > --
> > - Frank Krygowski
> The Remington 870 pump shotgun ONLY allows a maximum of about 9 shells on a special model. 5 or 6 shells on most pump shotguns. Rambo would have had to spend half the movie reloading his shotgun instead of killing an endless line of people. If he was using a shotgun. And if you only have 5 or 6 shells in your pump shotgun, how are you going to kill the 7th killer breaking into your house to kill you? With an AR-15 you can get 20 or 30 round magazines. And everyone knows its far far far far far more likely that 7 people will come to kill you than it is for 21 or 31 people to come kill you.
https://www.kygunco.com/product/typhoon-defense-f121301s-f12-12ga-ceracamo-w-long-forend

That is a 10 round clip fed 12 gauge with an open bore to fire .00 buckshot.. The clips may be changed in seconds. Why don't you tell us all about your view of Rambo?

On 2/20/2022 11:41 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 2/19/2022 6:25 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 2/19/2022 1:19 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 2/19/2022 11:29 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>> On 2/18/2022 9:03 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Disregarding the ".22 caliber", my own choice would be a
>>>>> 12 gauge
>>>>> shotgun, either pump or automatic and probably loaded with
>>>>> "buck shot"
>>>>> as I believe that I can injure, incapacitate, whatever,
>>>>> more people
>>>>> per round fired then is possible with an AR-whatever.
>>>>
>>>> And I agree. A shotgun is much more logical than an AR for
>>>> home defense - not that I need either for that purpose.
>>>>
>>>> But shotguns don't make a guy feel like Rambo.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> How do you know what other men feel?
>>
>> I talk to them, Andrew. I have friends who have invited me
>> to machine gun shoots, who bragged about doing things there
>> like blowing up junk cars and refrigerators. I have a
>> non-gun-nut friend who talked about how shooting an AR
>> "really makes you feel cool."
>>
>> What's this pot-bellied dude
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW1LZKJmtbw
>> doing at 0:50 to 0:55 and 3:10 to 3:16 if not playing Rambo?
>>
>>
>>
>
> Oh, full auto. I thought we were discussing AR-15.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3gf_5MR4tE

Unassisted. And how charming that he's choosing human silhouettes!

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 2/20/2022 2:44 AM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 3:25:46 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 3:20:52 PM UTC-8, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 12:39:32 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> On 2/17/2022 10:04 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 6:34:14 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For Remington Arms, the charges alleged incitement in their
>>>>>> advertising, an unique CT statute and I agree it was poorly
>>>>>> done (although I didn't see it as criminal, merely stupid. I
>>>>>> am not a CT legislator).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Trouble is, Remington Arms is in bankruptcy (a regular
>>>>>> process in the boom-bust arms industry) so the four
>>>>>> insurance carriers decided it was in their best interests to
>>>>>> settle. I do not know their analyses. Nor do you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Interesting side note: The AR-15 style rifle was chambered
>>>>>> .22LR.
>>>>>
>>>>> Fired fast enough, .22 LR can kill a lot of kids.
>>>>>
>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>
>>>> I saw some disconnect between the lawsuit's emphasis on the
>>>> word 'combat' in the ad (no assertion that Ms Lanza ever saw
>>>> that ad) and the actual firearm with a .22 rimfire format.
>>>> Interesting side note only.
>>>> --
>>>> Andrew Muzi
>>>> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
>>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>>> Well......the M-16 and many of the AR-15 style rifles is chambered in .223 (5.56 NATO). So it is sort of the exact same diameter bullet. .22 compared to .223. Almost identical diameter bullet. There are of course one or maybe even two other differences between a .22 rimfire (short or long or long rifle or Magnum) and a .223 center fire.
>>
>> Such as a bullet with four times the weight and a cartridge with 5 times the powder? Please quit talking about things you don't know about. The only difference between a .223 and a .308 is accurate range.
>
> Tommy, a .22 rimfire bullet and a .223 center fire bullet have essentially the exact same diameter bullet. Little under 1/4 inch diameter.
>

Eleven times energy difference.
https://aussiehunter.org/shooting/calibres/list-of-rifle-calibres/

Which is to say your average omafeitsen is 'essentially the
same' as a TdF race bike since they're both 622mm rims. pffft.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 12:42:07 AM UTC-8, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 3:22:34 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 3:15:38 PM UTC-8, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 11:06:39 AM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 8:44:19 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > > On 2/18/2022 10:52 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:
> > > > > > russell...@yahoo.com <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >> On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 10:01:31 PM UTC-6, frkr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > >>> On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 5:45:20 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> The hospital and doctor I mentioned are "Government Hospitals". We
> > > > > >>>> have both Government and Private hospitals here. the major difference
> > > > > >>>> is that for a Thai citizen, they pay 30 baht - about 1 hour's minimum
> > > > > >>>> wages, per visit and anything that the doctor in the Government
> > > > > >>>> Hospital prescribes is covered by that 30 baht. The so called Private
> > > > > >>>> hospitals charges are as much as 10 times, or more, higher.
> > > > > >>> Whoa. I had to look that up, but 30 baht is almost one U.S. dollar for the visit
> > > > > >>> plus all medications!
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> And private hospitals charge nearly $10 per hospital visit? You know, here in
> > > > > >>> the U.S. those charges are a bit higher.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> - Frank Krygowski
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> John did also say "they pay 30 baht - about 1 hour's minimum wages,"
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> So $1 per hour is the minimum wage in Thailand. Here in the US of A it
> > > > > >> is $7.25. I suspect many folks would be dancing in the streets if they
> > > > > >> could only get a charge of $72.50 for a doctor office visit.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I’d be quite pissed off at the sudden increase in cost.
> > > > > But Real Americans don't want none of that socialism! We LIKE giving
> > > > > our money to maintain the Health Care executive yachts!
> > > > >
> > > > > So what if our health is way worse than so many other countries? WE'RE
> > > > > NUMBER ONE! (In costs.)
> > > > Nothing but complaints that after spending your life not having to work, you don't have anything to show for it. Jobst did very well for himself.
> > > And you make this statement based on what evidence? Did you personally know Jobst Brandt? Talk to him in person for many years? Brandt was famous in certain circles. He wrote a highly acclaimed book on wheel building. I do not know if this generated an enormous amount of money or not. I am associating money with "well". Bicycle wheel building books probably are not flying off the shelves at book stores or Amazon. He was a college professor and likely had engineer jobs outside of academia too. Did these provide success, joy? Did he have a family? Friends? Judging whether someone did "very well" takes a lot of information.
> > >
> > > One more question Tommy. How did Jobst Brandt get added into this thread? Was this thread about wheel building? Was this thread about touring the Alps using only a Carradice bag as a luggage carrier?
> > >
> > > George Washington was the greatest general in US history!!!!!! Ooh Ooh Ooh!!!!! I just did a Tommy and added in a completely irrelevant topic!!!!!!
> > > What was the reason you decided to go into a fiend that had poor pay and even more poor benefits?
> >
> > Why would you speak on a subject you know nothing about? I know the sort of retirement pay that teachers get. My wife is a retired teacher and my son-in-law is presently a teacher who has told me what he will be getting when he retires. Do you believe that Frank's income from a no account university is going to be any better than that?
> >
> > Frank could have worked as an engineer but he didn't. Jobst did and his retirement was like mine - he was independently wealthy. Far more than me since H-P offered a very substantial retirement pay on top of what he could save. I had to save my own retirement money.
> Tommy, did you personally know Jobst Brandt and had personal knowledge of his retirement, wealth, savings, etc.? You seem to speak about it a lot, for some reason.
Yes dumbass, I personally knew Jobst and I personally rode on some of his rides until his idiocy with the incompetent riders that tried to keep up with his was too much with him. I didn't HAVE to know bout his financial conditions since he had a 50% retirement from Hewlitt Packard and I assume the he made at least as much as I was making at the time which would have given him some $75,000 a year.

Is there something that forces you to say stupid thing after stupid thing? Perhaps me leaving that group and Jobst publishing the address of my mother and telling everyone it was my address doesn't mean anything to you?

On 2/20/2022 3:10 AM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 12:51:58 AM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 19:50:25 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
>> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 5:23:08 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 12:05:56 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2/19/2022 12:16 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And "big Magazines" Oh Horrors!
>>>>>> But of course the Luger pistol had a 30 round magazine way back in WW
>>>>>> I days and several current pistols, the Glock 18 comes standard with a
>>>>>> 20 round capacity and 31 round magazines are available and the Glock
>>>>>> 17 can also be fitted with a 30 round magazine, and the Kel-Tec PMR 30
>>>>>> has a standard capacity of 30 rounds.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, apparently semi automatic rifles aren't inherent scary and 30
>>>>>> round magazines aren't scary so why when you combing a small bore semi
>>>>>> automatic rifle with a 30 round magazine does it become such a
>>>>>> fearsome weapon.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I might comment that a full length magazines for a 12 gauge shotguns
>>>>>> are available. In fact the "Century Arms Catamount Fury II" is a 12
>>>>>> gauge shotgun that comes standard with a 30 round magazine, and I'm
>>>>>> pretty sure that 30 rounds of 12 gauge buckshot is are more lethal
>>>>>> then 30 rounds of .22 bullets.
>>>>>
>>>>> Your argument does not prove high capacity magazines are perfectly fine.
>>>>> I'd say it indicates the need for laws against high capacity magazines
>>>>> on any firearm.
>>>>>
>>>>> Advantages vs. disadvantages, John! A disadvantage of a high capacity
>>>>> magazine is that it enables mass shootings and rapid fire gun battles,
>>>>> including between gang members and against cops.
>>>>>
>>>>> What are the advantages of high capacity magazines for non-criminal gun
>>>>> users? Do hunters really need to put more than (say) ten bullets into a
>>>>> rabbit or deer? Do target shooters really need fewer pauses to reload?
>>>> And you know all this? How?
>>>>
>>>> Are you an experienced target shooter? I am, USAF Rifle and Pistol
>>>> Teams, both Base and Major command. In later years I did considerable
>>>> Trap Shooting, and participated in many Trap Shooting computations (In
>>>> Ohio too).
>>>>
>>>> You are an experienced hunter? I am, I've owned a rifle since I was 12
>>>> years old and hunted critters ranging from rabbets to Moose.
>>>>
>>>> In addition I worked as a gun smith for a number of years and as a
>>>> result came in contact with a very large number of "shooters".
>>>
>>> I don't doubt that you've done what you say. Therefore, you should be able to answer my question!
>>> What are the great advantages of 30 round magazines? Who needs them? Why?
>>>
>>> (Besides people in combat or pretend combat, that is.)
>>>
>>> The disadvantages seem obvious: abetting mass shootings. What are the real advantages?
>>>
>>> Your answer?
>>>
>>> - Frank Krygowski
>> Well, I guess the most obvious answer is "because someone wants one".
>> Rather like the answer "why does someone want a plastic bicycle?" Or
>> Why does one want a bicycle at all?"
>>
>> You argue that "big magazines abetting mass shootings" and yet
>> statistics don't seem to justify that statement.
>> https://www.statista.com/statistics/476409/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-weapon-types-used/
>> Rifles were used in 26% of the shootings and pistols in 61%
>> So shouldn't you be crying about pistols.
>>
>> Or FBI data which shows that in 2019 pistols were used in 62% of all
>> shooting homicides.
>> In fact the same statistics show that only 3% of shooting homicides
>> were carried out with rifles which might, or might not, have large
>> magazines.
>>
>> As I said, you are becoming a Crotchety Old Man and rather then argue
>> facts you continue with these "delusions" - there is no other name for
>> them - just as Tom does.
>> --
>> Cheers,
>>
>> John B.
>
> Frank did say "abetting mass shootings".
> This from Wikipedia:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shootings_in_the_United_States
> "Gun Violence Archive, frequently cited by the press, defines a mass shooting as firearm violence resulting in at least four people being shot at roughly the same time and location, excluding the perpetrator. Using this definition, there have been 2,128 mass shootings since 2013, roughly one per day."
> "The United States has had more mass shootings than any other country."
> "Several types of guns have been used in mass shootings in the United States. A 2014 study conducted by Dr. James Fox of 142 shootings found that 88 (62%) were committed with handguns of all types; 68 (48%) with semi-automatic handguns, 20 (14%) with revolvers, 35 (25%) with semi-automatic rifles, and 19 (13%) with shotguns. The study was conducted using the Mother Jones database of mass shootings from 1982 to 2018. High capacity magazines were used in approximately half of mass shootings. Semi-automatic rifles have been used in six of the ten deadliest mass shooting events."
>
> Key points in the above quotes are (1) "High capacity magazines were used in approximately half of mass shootings." AND (2) "Semi-automatic rifles have been used in six of the ten DEADLIEST mass shooting events."
>
> The best (worst) mass shooting in the USA was the Las Vegas concert hotel killing in 2017. 60 dead.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Las_Vegas_shooting
> "Twenty-four firearms, a large quantity of ammunition, and numerous high-capacity magazines capable of holding up to 100 rounds apiece were found in the suite.[142][143] Fourteen of the firearms were .223-caliber AR-15-type semi-automatic rifles..........The others were eight .308-caliber AR-10-type rifles.............Paddock was found to have fired a total of 1,058 rounds from fifteen of the firearms: 1,049 from twelve AR-15-style rifles, eight from two AR-10-style rifles, and the round used to kill himself from the Smith & Wesson revolver."
>
> Slightly humorous he used the revolver to kill himself.
>

And then there are definitions of terms.

If 'mass shooting' is 'four hit' that's known in Chicago as
'Wednesday'. pfft.

What's 'high capacity' in a world where 30 rounds is a
standard magazine? You might argue that what people like is
evil (and that's an argument. I think you're mistaken but
you could argue it) but what people actually buy are
30-round magazines, both rifle and pistol. They're the
700-25PV tube of the firearms industry.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 12:44:53 AM UTC-8, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 3:25:46 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 3:20:52 PM UTC-8, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 12:39:32 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > On 2/17/2022 10:04 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > > On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 6:34:14 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> For Remington Arms, the charges alleged incitement in their
> > > > >> advertising, an unique CT statute and I agree it was poorly
> > > > >> done (although I didn't see it as criminal, merely stupid. I
> > > > >> am not a CT legislator).
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Trouble is, Remington Arms is in bankruptcy (a regular
> > > > >> process in the boom-bust arms industry) so the four
> > > > >> insurance carriers decided it was in their best interests to
> > > > >> settle. I do not know their analyses. Nor do you.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Interesting side note: The AR-15 style rifle was chambered
> > > > >> .22LR.
> > > > >
> > > > > Fired fast enough, .22 LR can kill a lot of kids.
> > > > >
> > > > > - Frank Krygowski
> > > > >
> > > > I saw some disconnect between the lawsuit's emphasis on the
> > > > word 'combat' in the ad (no assertion that Ms Lanza ever saw
> > > > that ad) and the actual firearm with a .22 rimfire format.
> > > > Interesting side note only.
> > > > --
> > > > Andrew Muzi
> > > > <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> > > > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> > > Well......the M-16 and many of the AR-15 style rifles is chambered in .223 (5.56 NATO). So it is sort of the exact same diameter bullet. .22 compared to .223. Almost identical diameter bullet. There are of course one or maybe even two other differences between a .22 rimfire (short or long or long rifle or Magnum) and a .223 center fire.
> >
> > Such as a bullet with four times the weight and a cartridge with 5 times the powder? Please quit talking about things you don't know about. The only difference between a .223 and a .308 is accurate range.
> Tommy, a .22 rimfire bullet and a .223 center fire bullet have essentially the exact same diameter bullet. Little under 1/4 inch diameter.

https://image.sportsmansguide.com/adimgs/l/1/10549i3_ts.jpg
Maybe even someone as stupid as you could see a different with an AR15 bullet
https://www.peakfirearms.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/top-2-ar-15-ammo.jpg

On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 9:18:50 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 2/20/2022 3:10 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 12:51:58 AM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
> >> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 19:50:25 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
> >> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 5:23:08 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
> >>>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 12:05:56 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> >>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 2/19/2022 12:16 AM, John B. wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> And "big Magazines" Oh Horrors!
> >>>>>> But of course the Luger pistol had a 30 round magazine way back in WW
> >>>>>> I days and several current pistols, the Glock 18 comes standard with a
> >>>>>> 20 round capacity and 31 round magazines are available and the Glock
> >>>>>> 17 can also be fitted with a 30 round magazine, and the Kel-Tec PMR 30
> >>>>>> has a standard capacity of 30 rounds.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> So, apparently semi automatic rifles aren't inherent scary and 30
> >>>>>> round magazines aren't scary so why when you combing a small bore semi
> >>>>>> automatic rifle with a 30 round magazine does it become such a
> >>>>>> fearsome weapon.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I might comment that a full length magazines for a 12 gauge shotguns
> >>>>>> are available. In fact the "Century Arms Catamount Fury II" is a 12
> >>>>>> gauge shotgun that comes standard with a 30 round magazine, and I'm
> >>>>>> pretty sure that 30 rounds of 12 gauge buckshot is are more lethal
> >>>>>> then 30 rounds of .22 bullets.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Your argument does not prove high capacity magazines are perfectly fine.
> >>>>> I'd say it indicates the need for laws against high capacity magazines
> >>>>> on any firearm.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Advantages vs. disadvantages, John! A disadvantage of a high capacity
> >>>>> magazine is that it enables mass shootings and rapid fire gun battles,
> >>>>> including between gang members and against cops.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What are the advantages of high capacity magazines for non-criminal gun
> >>>>> users? Do hunters really need to put more than (say) ten bullets into a
> >>>>> rabbit or deer? Do target shooters really need fewer pauses to reload?
> >>>> And you know all this? How?
> >>>>
> >>>> Are you an experienced target shooter? I am, USAF Rifle and Pistol
> >>>> Teams, both Base and Major command. In later years I did considerable
> >>>> Trap Shooting, and participated in many Trap Shooting computations (In
> >>>> Ohio too).
> >>>>
> >>>> You are an experienced hunter? I am, I've owned a rifle since I was 12
> >>>> years old and hunted critters ranging from rabbets to Moose.
> >>>>
> >>>> In addition I worked as a gun smith for a number of years and as a
> >>>> result came in contact with a very large number of "shooters".
> >>>
> >>> I don't doubt that you've done what you say. Therefore, you should be able to answer my question!
> >>> What are the great advantages of 30 round magazines? Who needs them? Why?
> >>>
> >>> (Besides people in combat or pretend combat, that is.)
> >>>
> >>> The disadvantages seem obvious: abetting mass shootings. What are the real advantages?
> >>>
> >>> Your answer?
> >>>
> >>> - Frank Krygowski
> >> Well, I guess the most obvious answer is "because someone wants one".
> >> Rather like the answer "why does someone want a plastic bicycle?" Or
> >> Why does one want a bicycle at all?"
> >>
> >> You argue that "big magazines abetting mass shootings" and yet
> >> statistics don't seem to justify that statement.
> >> https://www.statista.com/statistics/476409/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-weapon-types-used/
> >> Rifles were used in 26% of the shootings and pistols in 61%
> >> So shouldn't you be crying about pistols.
> >>
> >> Or FBI data which shows that in 2019 pistols were used in 62% of all
> >> shooting homicides.
> >> In fact the same statistics show that only 3% of shooting homicides
> >> were carried out with rifles which might, or might not, have large
> >> magazines.
> >>
> >> As I said, you are becoming a Crotchety Old Man and rather then argue
> >> facts you continue with these "delusions" - there is no other name for
> >> them - just as Tom does.
> >> --
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> John B.
> >
> > Frank did say "abetting mass shootings".
> > This from Wikipedia:
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shootings_in_the_United_States
> > "Gun Violence Archive, frequently cited by the press, defines a mass shooting as firearm violence resulting in at least four people being shot at roughly the same time and location, excluding the perpetrator. Using this definition, there have been 2,128 mass shootings since 2013, roughly one per day."
> > "The United States has had more mass shootings than any other country."
> > "Several types of guns have been used in mass shootings in the United States. A 2014 study conducted by Dr. James Fox of 142 shootings found that 88 (62%) were committed with handguns of all types; 68 (48%) with semi-automatic handguns, 20 (14%) with revolvers, 35 (25%) with semi-automatic rifles, and 19 (13%) with shotguns. The study was conducted using the Mother Jones database of mass shootings from 1982 to 2018. High capacity magazines were used in approximately half of mass shootings. Semi-automatic rifles have been used in six of the ten deadliest mass shooting events."
> >
> > Key points in the above quotes are (1) "High capacity magazines were used in approximately half of mass shootings." AND (2) "Semi-automatic rifles have been used in six of the ten DEADLIEST mass shooting events."
> >
> > The best (worst) mass shooting in the USA was the Las Vegas concert hotel killing in 2017. 60 dead.
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Las_Vegas_shooting
> > "Twenty-four firearms, a large quantity of ammunition, and numerous high-capacity magazines capable of holding up to 100 rounds apiece were found in the suite.[142][143] Fourteen of the firearms were .223-caliber AR-15-type semi-automatic rifles..........The others were eight .308-caliber AR-10-type rifles.............Paddock was found to have fired a total of 1,058 rounds from fifteen of the firearms: 1,049 from twelve AR-15-style rifles, eight from two AR-10-style rifles, and the round used to kill himself from the Smith & Wesson revolver."
> >
> > Slightly humorous he used the revolver to kill himself.
> >
> And then there are definitions of terms.
>
> If 'mass shooting' is 'four hit' that's known in Chicago as
> 'Wednesday'. pfft.
>
> What's 'high capacity' in a world where 30 rounds is a
> standard magazine? You might argue that what people like is
> evil (and that's an argument. I think you're mistaken but
> you could argue it) but what people actually buy are
> 30-round magazines, both rifle and pistol. They're the
> 700-25PV tube of the firearms industry.

Why do you suppose Frank is taking numbers from Mother Jones rather than the FBI database? Trying to find the worst possible presentation instead of the truth?

On 2/20/2022 11:11 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 2/20/2022 11:41 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 2/19/2022 6:25 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 2/19/2022 1:19 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> On 2/19/2022 11:29 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>> On 2/18/2022 9:03 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Disregarding the ".22 caliber", my own choice would be a
>>>>>> 12 gauge
>>>>>> shotgun, either pump or automatic and probably loaded
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> "buck shot"
>>>>>> as I believe that I can injure, incapacitate, whatever,
>>>>>> more people
>>>>>> per round fired then is possible with an AR-whatever.
>>>>>
>>>>> And I agree. A shotgun is much more logical than an AR for
>>>>> home defense - not that I need either for that purpose.
>>>>>
>>>>> But shotguns don't make a guy feel like Rambo.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How do you know what other men feel?
>>>
>>> I talk to them, Andrew. I have friends who have invited me
>>> to machine gun shoots, who bragged about doing things there
>>> like blowing up junk cars and refrigerators. I have a
>>> non-gun-nut friend who talked about how shooting an AR
>>> "really makes you feel cool."
>>>
>>> What's this pot-bellied dude
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW1LZKJmtbw
>>> doing at 0:50 to 0:55 and 3:10 to 3:16 if not playing Rambo?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Oh, full auto. I thought we were discussing AR-15.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3gf_5MR4tE
>
> Unassisted. And how charming that he's choosing human
> silhouettes!
>

Really? Standard target shapes trigger you?
Perhaps undead humans be better?
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/rangnat.jpg

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 11:03:18 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 2/20/2022 11:11 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 2/20/2022 11:41 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 2/19/2022 6:25 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>> On 2/19/2022 1:19 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>> On 2/19/2022 11:29 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>>>> On 2/18/2022 9:03 PM, John B. wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Disregarding the ".22 caliber", my own choice would be a
> >>>>>> 12 gauge
> >>>>>> shotgun, either pump or automatic and probably loaded
> >>>>>> with
> >>>>>> "buck shot"
> >>>>>> as I believe that I can injure, incapacitate, whatever,
> >>>>>> more people
> >>>>>> per round fired then is possible with an AR-whatever.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> And I agree. A shotgun is much more logical than an AR for
> >>>>> home defense - not that I need either for that purpose.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> But shotguns don't make a guy feel like Rambo.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> How do you know what other men feel?
> >>>
> >>> I talk to them, Andrew. I have friends who have invited me
> >>> to machine gun shoots, who bragged about doing things there
> >>> like blowing up junk cars and refrigerators. I have a
> >>> non-gun-nut friend who talked about how shooting an AR
> >>> "really makes you feel cool."
> >>>
> >>> What's this pot-bellied dude
> >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW1LZKJmtbw
> >>> doing at 0:50 to 0:55 and 3:10 to 3:16 if not playing Rambo?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> Oh, full auto. I thought we were discussing AR-15.
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3gf_5MR4tE
> >
> > Unassisted. And how charming that he's choosing human
> > silhouettes!
> >
> Really? Standard target shapes trigger you?
> Perhaps undead humans be better?
> http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/rangnat.jpg

I'm afraid that all reason and logic has been banished from the minds of the gun grabbers. My younger brother has now moved to Nevada,. This is a state in which 90% of the inhabitants have guns. He thinks that as long as he is friends with people that have guns they will protect him.

On Sun, 20 Feb 2022 00:38:58 -0800 (PST), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
<ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 11:29:11 AM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 2/18/2022 9:03 PM, John B. wrote:
>> >
>> > Disregarding the ".22 caliber", my own choice would be a 12 gauge
>> > shotgun, either pump or automatic and probably loaded with "buck shot"
>> > as I believe that I can injure, incapacitate, whatever, more people
>> > per round fired then is possible with an AR-whatever.
>> And I agree. A shotgun is much more logical than an AR for home defense
>> - not that I need either for that purpose.
>>
>> But shotguns don't make a guy feel like Rambo.
>> --
>> - Frank Krygowski
>
>The Remington 870 pump shotgun ONLY allows a maximum of about 9 shells on a special model. 5 or 6 shells on most pump shotguns. Rambo would have had to spend half the movie reloading his shotgun instead of killing an endless line of people. If he was using a shotgun. And if you only have 5 or 6 shells in your pump shotgun, how are you going to kill the 7th killer breaking into your house to kill you? With an AR-15 you can get 20 or 30 round magazines. And everyone knows its far far far far far more likely that 7 people will come to kill you than it is for 21 or 31 people to come kill you.

Does the 870 hold 9 shells? I owned one but I don't remember how many
shells it would hold but that sounds like too many (:-)

As for X number of shells being enough, or not enough, I wonder. My
suspicion is if you kick my door in and I fire, say 5 rounds of 00
buckshot at you and your buddies the fight will be pretty well over
with.
--
Cheers,

John B.