https://finance.yahoo.com/news/app-gives-android-users-ability-092001890.html

Beeper Mini reverse engineers iMessage's protocol's to register non
Apple phones on the Apple iCloud data base.

Reverse engineering a protocol is not illegal in the US and Canada.

I'm less sure that using such to "register" a non Apple device's phone
number on the Apple servers would not violate Apple's terms of service.
To be seen.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On Dec 8, 2023 at 7:12:02 PM EST, "Alan Browne" <bitbucket@blackhole.com>
wrote:

>
> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/app-gives-android-users-ability-092001890.html
>
> Beeper Mini reverse engineers iMessage's protocol's to register non
> Apple phones on the Apple iCloud data base.
>
> Reverse engineering a protocol is not illegal in the US and Canada.
>
> I'm less sure that using such to "register" a non Apple device's phone
> number on the Apple servers would not violate Apple's terms of service.
> To be seen.

As expected, Apple has already killed this. Did anyone REALLY think Apple
would permit this?

Why don't you jealous Android dweebs just get an iPhone and get over it?

Alan Browne wrote:

> I'm less sure that using such to "register" a non Apple device's phone
> number on the Apple servers would not violate Apple's terms of service.
> To be seen.

Why would I want to pay £2/month "entrance fee" to the walled garden,
when we expect the gates to be opened (to some extent) next year?

On 2023-12-09 01:57:47 +0000, Tyrone said:
> On Dec 8, 2023 at 7:12:02 PM EST, "Alan Browne" <bitbucket@blackhole.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/app-gives-android-users-ability-092001890.html
>>
>> Beeper Mini reverse engineers iMessage's protocol's to register non
>> Apple phones on the Apple iCloud data base.
>>
>> Reverse engineering a protocol is not illegal in the US and Canada.
>>
>> I'm less sure that using such to "register" a non Apple device's phone
>> number on the Apple servers would not violate Apple's terms of service.
>> To be seen.
>
> As expected, Apple has already killed this. Did anyone REALLY think Apple
> would permit this?
>
> Why don't you jealous Android dweebs just get an iPhone and get over it?

It's only brainless morons who give a crap about what stupid colour a
bubble is in a messaging app anyway. :-\

On Dec 9, 2023 at 12:21:04 AM EST, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

> On 2023-12-09 01:57:47 +0000, Tyrone said:
>> On Dec 8, 2023 at 7:12:02 PM EST, "Alan Browne" <bitbucket@blackhole.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/app-gives-android-users-ability-092001890.html
>>>
>>> Beeper Mini reverse engineers iMessage's protocol's to register non
>>> Apple phones on the Apple iCloud data base.
>>>
>>> Reverse engineering a protocol is not illegal in the US and Canada.
>>>
>>> I'm less sure that using such to "register" a non Apple device's phone
>>> number on the Apple servers would not violate Apple's terms of service.
>>> To be seen.
>>
>> As expected, Apple has already killed this. Did anyone REALLY think Apple
>> would permit this?
>>
>> Why don't you jealous Android dweebs just get an iPhone and get over it?
>
> It's only brainless morons who give a crap about what stupid colour a
> bubble is in a messaging app anyway. :-\

Yep. Brainless morons = jealous Android users. They are literally "green with
envy".

On 2023-12-09 06:46, Tyrone wrote:
> On Dec 9, 2023 at 12:21:04 AM EST, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2023-12-09 01:57:47 +0000, Tyrone said:
>>> On Dec 8, 2023 at 7:12:02 PM EST, "Alan Browne" <bitbucket@blackhole.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/app-gives-android-users-ability-092001890.html
>>>>
>>>> Beeper Mini reverse engineers iMessage's protocol's to register non
>>>> Apple phones on the Apple iCloud data base.
>>>>
>>>> Reverse engineering a protocol is not illegal in the US and Canada.
>>>>
>>>> I'm less sure that using such to "register" a non Apple device's phone
>>>> number on the Apple servers would not violate Apple's terms of service.
>>>> To be seen.
>>>
>>> As expected, Apple has already killed this. Did anyone REALLY think Apple
>>> would permit this?
>>>
>>> Why don't you jealous Android dweebs just get an iPhone and get over it?
>>
>> It's only brainless morons who give a crap about what stupid colour a
>> bubble is in a messaging app anyway. :-\
>
> Yep. Brainless morons = jealous Android users. They are literally "green with
> envy".

Us? Not at all. There is only 21% users of iphones here, they have
nobody to talk with on iMessage, so they come to WhatsApp :-P

Here they need to open up their walled garden, if they want to be able
to talk with anyone. Not our problem, but theirs.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On Dec 9, 2023 at 1:00:18 AM EST, ""Carlos E. R."" <robin_listas@es.invalid>
wrote:

> On 2023-12-09 06:46, Tyrone wrote:
>> On Dec 9, 2023 at 12:21:04 AM EST, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2023-12-09 01:57:47 +0000, Tyrone said:
>>>> On Dec 8, 2023 at 7:12:02 PM EST, "Alan Browne" <bitbucket@blackhole.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/app-gives-android-users-ability-092001890.html
>>>>>
>>>>> Beeper Mini reverse engineers iMessage's protocol's to register non
>>>>> Apple phones on the Apple iCloud data base.
>>>>>
>>>>> Reverse engineering a protocol is not illegal in the US and Canada.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm less sure that using such to "register" a non Apple device's phone
>>>>> number on the Apple servers would not violate Apple's terms of service.
>>>>> To be seen.
>>>>
>>>> As expected, Apple has already killed this. Did anyone REALLY think Apple
>>>> would permit this?
>>>>
>>>> Why don't you jealous Android dweebs just get an iPhone and get over it?
>>>
>>> It's only brainless morons who give a crap about what stupid colour a
>>> bubble is in a messaging app anyway. :-\
>>
>> Yep. Brainless morons = jealous Android users. They are literally "green with
>> envy".
>
> Us? Not at all. There is only 21% users of iphones here, they have
> nobody to talk with on iMessage, so they come to WhatsApp :-P
>
> Here they need to open up their walled garden, if they want to be able
> to talk with anyone. Not our problem, but theirs.

Nope. It is Android users wanting to use iMessage. No iPhone users are
wanting to be Android users.

On 09.12.23 01:12, Alan Browne wrote:
>
> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/app-gives-android-users-ability-092001890.html
>
> Beeper Mini reverse engineers iMessage's protocol's to register non
> Apple phones on the Apple iCloud data base.
>
> Reverse engineering a protocol is not illegal in the US and Canada.
>
> I'm less sure that using such to "register" a non Apple device's phone
> number on the Apple servers would not violate Apple's terms of service.
> To be seen.

Why The Fuck are *Android-users* so keen to enter the Apple world in the
first place?! Inferiority complex?

*Ridiculous*!

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

On 09.12.23 05:43, Andy Burns wrote:
> Alan Browne wrote:
>
>> I'm less sure that using such to "register" a non Apple device's phone
>> number on the Apple servers would not violate Apple's terms of service.
>> To be seen.
>
> Why would I want to pay £2/month "entrance fee" to the walled garden,
> when we expect the gates to be opened (to some extent) next year?

You misunderstand what will happen: The *bubbles* stay green with RCS
and it will not solve the inferiority complex of Android users.

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

On 09.12.23 02:57, Tyrone wrote:
> On Dec 8, 2023 at 7:12:02 PM EST, "Alan Browne" <bitbucket@blackhole.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/app-gives-android-users-ability-092001890.html
>>
>> Beeper Mini reverse engineers iMessage's protocol's to register non
>> Apple phones on the Apple iCloud data base.
>>
>> Reverse engineering a protocol is not illegal in the US and Canada.
>>
>> I'm less sure that using such to "register" a non Apple device's phone
>> number on the Apple servers would not violate Apple's terms of service.
>> To be seen.
>
> As expected, Apple has already killed this. Did anyone REALLY think Apple
> would permit this?
>
> Why don't you jealous Android dweebs just get an iPhone and get over it?

Very good question.
This kindergarten-issue is solely an US-American problem.

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

On 09.12.23 06:21, Your Name wrote:
> On 2023-12-09 01:57:47 +0000, Tyrone said:
>> On Dec 8, 2023 at 7:12:02 PM EST, "Alan Browne" <bitbucket@blackhole.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/app-gives-android-users-ability-092001890.html
>>>
>>> Beeper Mini reverse engineers iMessage's protocol's to register non
>>> Apple phones on the Apple iCloud data base.
>>>
>>> Reverse engineering a protocol is not illegal in the US and Canada.
>>>
>>> I'm less sure that using such to "register" a non Apple device's phone
>>> number on the Apple servers would not violate Apple's terms of service.
>>> To be seen.
>>
>> As expected, Apple has already killed this. Did anyone REALLY think Apple
>> would permit this?
>>
>> Why don't you jealous Android dweebs just get an iPhone and get over it?
>
> It's only brainless morons who give a crap about what stupid colour a
> bubble is in a messaging app anyway. :-\

But seems to be an issue of national security in the US. *ROTFLSTC*

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

Tyrone <none@none.none> wrote

>> Here they need to open up their walled garden, if they want to be able
>> to talk with anyone. Not our problem, but theirs.
>
> Nope. It is Android users wanting to use iMessage. No iPhone users are
> wanting to be Android users.

There's no privacy possible on iOS, partially due to having to log into
the Apple iMessages server, which Android users don't have to ever do.
<https://i.postimg.cc/rwyGPpV9/locked-05.jpg>

If you don't log into Apple's mothership tracking servers every single day
of the rest of your life, then Apple will literally brick your iOS device.
<https://i.postimg.cc/7P7NCctS/locked-01.jpg>

*No privacy is possible on an iOS device.*

Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
> On 09.12.23 05:43, Andy Burns wrote:
>> Alan Browne wrote:
>>
>>> I'm less sure that using such to "register" a non Apple device's phone
>>> number on the Apple servers would not violate Apple's terms of service.
>>> To be seen.
>>
>> Why would I want to pay £2/month "entrance fee" to the walled garden,
>> when we expect the gates to be opened (to some extent) next year?
>
> You misunderstand what will happen: The *bubbles* stay green with RCS
> and it will not solve the inferiority complex of Android users.
>

So that’s why you bought an iPhone, jughead?

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote

>> I'm less sure that using such to "register" a non Apple device's phone
>> number on the Apple servers would not violate Apple's terms of service.
>> To be seen.
>
> Why would I want to pay �2/month "entrance fee" to the walled garden,
> when we expect the gates to be opened (to some extent) next year?

Hi Andy,

The value of this beeper app eludes me...

While this thread is a troll, and while "blue bubbles" is a ridiculous
thing for anyone to care about, I skimmed the original article & this site
<https://www.beeper.com/>

Interestingly, the app itself 'says' that it's free with no ads.
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.beeper.ima>
But it does say that it has "in app purchases".

My phone isn't set up to make purchases, so I figured I'd test it out
to see how far it will go without creating a log in to a Google Account.
<https://i.postimg.cc/GmnXTgxp/beeperapp.jpg>

Not far...
<https://help.beeper.com/en_US/beeper-mini/beeper-mini-how-to-fix-google-sign-in-error-during-login-site>

Since you can't use it without logging into a Google Account (apparently),
it's pretty worthless - but I couldn't test it any further because of that.

But I'm looking for what the "value equation" is, as I don't get it yet.

Who cares about the color of bubbles?
There aren't even bubbles on Android to care about the color of.

And I communicate with iPhone users all the time.
What's this about "iPhone-only chats" that anyone could care about?

The app is marketed with the following splash screens:'
a. Finally get blue bubbles on Android
b. Join iPhone-only group chats
c. Full size photos and videos, plus replies and reactions
d. Secured with end-to-end encryption
e. Continue with Google

I'm struggling to see who would care about any of that
(given you already have all of that already, don't you)?

Wally J wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote
>
>> Why would I want to pay Ł2/month "entrance fee" to the walled garden
>
> The value of this beeper app eludes me...
> Interestingly, the app itself 'says' that it's free with no ads.
> But it does say that it has "in app purchases".

Articles I read elsewhere (TheVerge, ArsTechnica etc) all said 7 day
free trial, then $2/month.

> I communicate with iPhone users all the time.

I can send SMS "free" out of my SIM bundle, I could send MMS but I
rarely do because of the cost (approx ¢63 each).
> The app is marketed with the following splash screens:'
> a. Finally get blue bubbles on Android
> b. Join iPhone-only group chats
> c. Full size photos and videos, plus replies and reactions
> d. Secured with end-to-end encryption
> e. Continue with Google
>
> I'm struggling to see who would care about any of that
> (given you already have all of that already, don't you)?

ignore the colour of bubbles, I can't participate in group chats without
every message being a MMS, hopefully RCS will allow photos/videos to
iPhones next year, if Apple are sniffy about E2EE we may not get that to
iPhones.

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote

>> The value of this beeper app eludes me...
>> Interestingly, the app itself 'says' that it's free with no ads.
>> But it does say that it has "in app purchases".
>
> Articles I read elsewhere (TheVerge, ArsTechnica etc) all said 7 day
> free trial, then $2/month.

I'm with you that whatever its value, it's not worth $24/year for sure.
Anyway, Apple already closed the hole that beeper was using (apparently).
<https://www.macrumors.com/2023/12/08/beeper-mini-imessage-for-android-shutdown/>

It used to shock me how incredibly insecure Apple's code is, what with ten
times the number of exploits than Android and many times the zero day bugs.

But now it's just another day another exploit in terms of Apple's output.

>> I communicate with iPhone users all the time.
>
> I can send SMS "free" out of my SIM bundle, I could send MMS but I
> rarely do because of the cost (approx �63 each).

Yeah. You told me MMS costs you money if you don't use RCS to do it (I
think because RCS can send that MMS over the Wi-Fi or data connection).

>> I'm struggling to see who would care about any of that
>> (given you already have all of that already, don't you)?
>
> ignore the colour of bubbles, I can't participate in group chats without
> every message being a MMS, hopefully RCS will allow photos/videos to
> iPhones next year, if Apple are sniffy about E2EE we may not get that to
> iPhones.

It's too bad you have to deal with that MMS charging stuff. Bummer.

If Beeper integrates the iPhone with the rest of the world, you can rest
assured Apple is going to stop all integration every chance they get.

*Apple Puts a Stop to Beeper Mini's iMessage for Android Feature*
<https://www.macrumors.com/2023/12/08/beeper-mini-imessage-for-android-shutdown/>
"Beeper Mini quit working earlier today, with users receiving "failed
to lookup on server: lookup request timed out" error messages."

The fact it worked at all shows incredible incompetence of Apple coders.
<https://blog.beeper.com/p/how-beeper-mini-works>

It's always been obvious to me how horribly crappy Apple's code is (e.g.,
the FaceTime bugs were immense and they were found by a mere child also).

Apparently, Apple coders are so fantastically inept that they had to resort
to reading the blogs just to figure out their bugs in the iMessage servers.
<https://jjtech.dev/reverse-engineering/imessage-explained/>

Wally J <walterjones@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>
> Who cares about the color of bubbles?
> There aren't even bubbles on Android to care about the color of.
>
> And I communicate with iPhone users all the time.
> What's this about "iPhone-only chats" that anyone could care about?
>
> The app is marketed with the following splash screens:'
> a. Finally get blue bubbles on Android
> b. Join iPhone-only group chats
> c. Full size photos and videos, plus replies and reactions
> d. Secured with end-to-end encryption
> e. Continue with Google
>
> I'm struggling to see who would care about any of that
> (given you already have all of that already, don't you)?
>
>

I participate in several group chats which include iOS and Android users.
If there is a single Android user then the entire chat turns green.
Personally I don’t like the white letters on green background because it’s
harder to read than white letters on blue background. But even more
importantly, if a person is added or deleted from the group chat then an
entire new chat/conversation has to be created. If everyone was using
iMessage then the same conversation can be edited easily without creating a
new one.

In iOS there are reactions you can use by long pressing a message. These do
not transfer over to the chat properly if it is green. There are also
automated animated reactions such as Happy Birthday which pops up balloons
and confetti in iMessage conversations which does not work in green chats.

These type of limitations are what iOS users don’t like when an Android
user enters a group chat. If everyone used something like WhatsApp then
this would be a moot point, but here in America we haven’t adopted third
party messaging apps like the rest of the world. I have relatives overseas
with iPhones who have turned off the iMessage function on their phone
because they don’t use it.

I can understand why Android users are trying to break into the iMessage
world and why Apple is resisting. Ultimately it would work best for
everyone if the systems were compatible, but Apple would then lose the one
advantage they have which maintains their loyal user base.

On 2023-12-08 23:43, Andy Burns wrote:
> Alan Browne wrote:
>
>> I'm less sure that using such to "register" a non Apple device's phone
>> number on the Apple servers would not violate Apple's terms of
>> service. To be seen.
>
> Why would I want to pay £2/month "entrance fee" to the walled garden,
> when we expect the gates to be opened (to some extent) next year?

What walled garden? Apple devices roam wherever they like. No walls.

OTOH, they have a superb eco-system between Apple devices that excludes
non Apple systems. iMessage service is one of them.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 2023-12-09 00:21, Your Name wrote:
> On 2023-12-09 01:57:47 +0000, Tyrone said:
>> On Dec 8, 2023 at 7:12:02 PM EST, "Alan Browne" <bitbucket@blackhole.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/app-gives-android-users-ability-092001890.html
>>>
>>> Beeper Mini reverse engineers iMessage's protocol's to register non
>>> Apple phones on the Apple iCloud data base.
>>>
>>> Reverse engineering a protocol is not illegal in the US and Canada.
>>>
>>> I'm less sure that using such to "register" a non Apple device's phone
>>> number on the Apple servers would not violate Apple's terms of service.
>>> To be seen.
>>
>> As expected, Apple has already killed this. Did anyone REALLY think Apple
>> would permit this?
>>
>> Why don't you jealous Android dweebs just get an iPhone and get over it?
>
> It's only brainless morons who give a crap about what stupid colour a
> bubble is in a messaging app anyway.  :-\

It's not about the "blue", it's about the functionality of iMessage.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 2023-12-09 01:00, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2023-12-09 06:46, Tyrone wrote:
>> On Dec 9, 2023 at 12:21:04 AM EST, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2023-12-09 01:57:47 +0000, Tyrone said:
>>>> On Dec 8, 2023 at 7:12:02 PM EST, "Alan Browne"
>>>> <bitbucket@blackhole.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/app-gives-android-users-ability-092001890.html
>>>>>
>>>>> Beeper Mini reverse engineers iMessage's protocol's to register non
>>>>> Apple phones on the Apple iCloud data base.
>>>>>
>>>>> Reverse engineering a protocol is not illegal in the US and Canada.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm less sure that using such to "register" a non Apple device's phone
>>>>> number on the Apple servers would not violate Apple's terms of
>>>>> service.
>>>>> To be seen.
>>>>
>>>> As expected, Apple has already killed this. Did anyone REALLY think
>>>> Apple
>>>> would permit this?
>>>>
>>>> Why don't you jealous Android dweebs just get an iPhone and get over
>>>> it?
>>>
>>> It's only brainless morons who give a crap about what stupid colour a
>>> bubble is in a messaging app anyway.  :-\
>>
>> Yep. Brainless morons = jealous Android users. They are literally
>> "green with
>> envy".
>
> Us? Not at all. There is only 21% users of iphones here, they have
> nobody to talk with on iMessage, so they come to WhatsApp :-P

Owned by Meta (Facebook) where the user is the product.

I'd try to get people to switch to something independent such as Signal.

But I get that people ended up on WhatsApp because of their Facebook
account. Pity - hard to break such bonds.

> Here they need to open up their walled garden, if they want to be able
> to talk with anyone. Not our problem, but theirs.

No walled garden: Apple devices roam wherever they want. A walled
garden means self contained and limiting.

Fabulous eco-system, OTOH.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 2023-12-09 01:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> On 09.12.23 01:12, Alan Browne wrote:
>>
>> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/app-gives-android-users-ability-092001890.html
>>
>> Beeper Mini reverse engineers iMessage's protocol's to register non
>> Apple phones on the Apple iCloud data base.
>>
>> Reverse engineering a protocol is not illegal in the US and Canada.
>>
>> I'm less sure that using such to "register" a non Apple device's phone
>> number on the Apple servers would not violate Apple's terms of service.
>> To be seen.
>
> Why The Fuck are *Android-users* so keen to enter the Apple world in the
> first place?! Inferiority complex?

It would be nice to have the functionality of iMessage on Android and
that's what this attempted.

IAC, much (if not all) of this will be moot when Apple aligns with RCS
next year - although some iMessage features will remain exclusive to the
Apple eco-sphere.

> *Ridiculous*!

Yes, you are.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 2023-12-09 01:41, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> On 09.12.23 05:43, Andy Burns wrote:
>> Alan Browne wrote:
>>
>>> I'm less sure that using such to "register" a non Apple device's phone
>>> number on the Apple servers would not violate Apple's terms of service.
>>> To be seen.
>>
>> Why would I want to pay £2/month "entrance fee" to the walled garden,
>> when we expect the gates to be opened (to some extent) next year?
>
> You misunderstand what will happen: The *bubbles* stay green with RCS
> and it will not solve the inferiority complex of Android users.

It's not about the colour of the bubbles - it's about the underlying
functionality of iMessage.

Do keep up.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

Tyrone <none@none.none> wrote:
> On Dec 9, 2023 at 1:00:18?AM EST, ""Carlos E. R."" <robin_listas@es.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> > On 2023-12-09 06:46, Tyrone wrote:
> >> On Dec 9, 2023 at 12:21:04?AM EST, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 2023-12-09 01:57:47 +0000, Tyrone said:
> >>>> On Dec 8, 2023 at 7:12:02?PM EST, "Alan Browne" <bitbucket@blackhole.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/app-gives-android-users-ability-092001890.html
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Beeper Mini reverse engineers iMessage's protocol's to register non
> >>>>> Apple phones on the Apple iCloud data base.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Reverse engineering a protocol is not illegal in the US and Canada.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm less sure that using such to "register" a non Apple device's phone
> >>>>> number on the Apple servers would not violate Apple's terms of service.
> >>>>> To be seen.
> >>>>
> >>>> As expected, Apple has already killed this. Did anyone REALLY think Apple
> >>>> would permit this?
> >>>>
> >>>> Why don't you jealous Android dweebs just get an iPhone and get over it?
> >>>
> >>> It's only brainless morons who give a crap about what stupid colour a
> >>> bubble is in a messaging app anyway. :-\
> >>
> >> Yep. Brainless morons = jealous Android users. They are literally
> >> "green with envy".
> >
> > Us? Not at all. There is only 21% users of iphones here, they have
> > nobody to talk with on iMessage, so they come to WhatsApp :-P
> >
> > Here they need to open up their walled garden, if they want to be able
> > to talk with anyone. Not our problem, but theirs.
>
> Nope. It is Android users wanting to use iMessage. No iPhone users are
> wanting to be Android users.

And vice versa, but that's not the point Carlos is making.

The point is that except for the US - and maybe NA - nobody cares
about iMessage, because everyone - yes, *including* iPhone users - is
using an IM platform which *is* cross-OS-platform. As Carlos said, for
most that's WhatsApp.

So we hate to break it to you, but the world does not revolve around
Apple, nor the US (nor Android, nor ... ad infinitum).

On 09/12/2023 10:24, Wally J wrote:
> It used to shock me how incredibly insecure Apple's code is, what with ten
> times the number of exploits than Android and many times the zero day bugs.

I'm not an Apple fan but I don't think that's true.

Based on the information available up to 2021, Android had a total of
574 vulnerabilities discovered in that year, which was a reduction from
the 859 in 2020. However, 79% of these were characterized by low attack
complexity. On the other hand, iOS had fewer vulnerabilities but tended
to have more serious ones, including zero-days

<https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/2021-mobile-security-android-more-vulnerabilities-ios-more-zero-days/>

--
Brian Gregory (in England).

Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
> On 2023-12-09 01:00, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> > On 2023-12-09 06:46, Tyrone wrote:
> >> On Dec 9, 2023 at 12:21:04?AM EST, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 2023-12-09 01:57:47 +0000, Tyrone said:
> >>>> On Dec 8, 2023 at 7:12:02?PM EST, "Alan Browne"
> >>>> <bitbucket@blackhole.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/app-gives-android-users-ability-092001890.html
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Beeper Mini reverse engineers iMessage's protocol's to register non
> >>>>> Apple phones on the Apple iCloud data base.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Reverse engineering a protocol is not illegal in the US and Canada.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm less sure that using such to "register" a non Apple device's phone
> >>>>> number on the Apple servers would not violate Apple's terms of
> >>>>> service.
> >>>>> To be seen.
> >>>>
> >>>> As expected, Apple has already killed this. Did anyone REALLY think
> >>>> Apple
> >>>> would permit this?
> >>>>
> >>>> Why don't you jealous Android dweebs just get an iPhone and get over
> >>>> it?
> >>>
> >>> It's only brainless morons who give a crap about what stupid colour a
> >>> bubble is in a messaging app anyway.  :-\
> >>
> >> Yep. Brainless morons = jealous Android users. They are literally
> >> "green with
> >> envy".
> >
> > Us? Not at all. There is only 21% users of iphones here, they have
> > nobody to talk with on iMessage, so they come to WhatsApp :-P
>
> Owned by Meta (Facebook) where the user is the product.

WhatsApp is quite seperate from Facebook. WhatsApp's legal documents
are quite specific about WhatsApp *not* sharing user data with Facebook.

But of course some people revel on FUD, urban legends, etc., so this
kind of misinformation will never cease.

People actually *using* WhatsApp, know better.

> I'd try to get people to switch to something independent such as Signal.
>
> But I get that people ended up on WhatsApp because of their Facebook
> account. Pity - hard to break such bonds.

In Europe and probably also elsewhere where WhatsApp is popular, it's
probably mostly the other way around. Many people already used WhatsApp
before it was bought by Facebook and many people use WhatsApp without
having a Facebook account.

FWIW, I've a WhatsApp 'account', but no Facebook account. [This space
is intentionally left blank for the 'shadow Facdebook account' urban
legend.]

> > Here they need to open up their walled garden, if they want to be able
> > to talk with anyone. Not our problem, but theirs.
>
> No walled garden: Apple devices roam wherever they want. A walled
> garden means self contained and limiting.

I think Carlos is referring to Apple (and others) needing to open up
to interoperate with other (than iMessage) IM platforms to conform to
upcoming EU regulation.

> Fabulous eco-system, OTOH.

Good on you!