On 2023-12-12 18:06, Wally J wrote:
> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote
>
>>> And it's clear you have absolutely no idea of how Apple does things,
>>> JR.
>>
>> Projection. It is *you* who has absolutely no idea how Apple devices
>> work.
>
> Hi Jolly Roger,
>
> The unsurprising thing is you iKooks have no clue whatsoever that there's a
> login into the iMessage server and _another_ login into the iCloud server.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/rpmJKw7p/locked-04.jpg> iCloud login
> <https://i.postimg.cc/rwyGPpV9/locked-05.jpg> iMessage login
>
> And plenty more.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/3NVqB4dC/nag03.jpg> Plenty of other Apple logins
>
> It's no longer shocking you iKooka have no idea how Apple products work.
>
>
>>> What you do not understand, Jolly Roger, is there are _multiple_ times
>>> you must log into an Apple device, as witnessed by the very images I
>>> provided.
>>
>> Nope. My iPhone SE hasn't asked or required a login for *years* and
>> continues to work just fine. You don't know what you are talking about.
>
> Ah, but I do. I know full well what happens if you don't log into Apple
> servers when they ask you to "Update Apple ID settings" as shown here.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/3NVqB4dC/nag03.jpg> 1 Update Apple ID settings
>
>> You think iCloud is mandatory when it's not. You think Apple requires
>> you to log in, when they do not. You are a useless, know-nothing troll.
>
> I understand you better than you know yourself, Jolly Roger, so I forgive
> you for lashing out at me simply for telling you the truth about Apple.
>
>>> For example, there's an iCloud login and there's an iMessage login,
>>> JR.
>>
>> You caused that by logging into iCloud and iMessage, Arlen. And the fact
>> that you think the rest of us don't know that is pathetic. Your trolls
>> are as weak as your interpersonal skills.
>
> No. You're wrong Jolly Roger. That was caused by Apple who forces you to
> identify yourself with a government ID if you ever stop logging into it.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/7P7NCctS/locked-01.jpg> AppleID is locked by Apple
>
>>> And there's plenty more, Jolly Roger, none of which are you aware of.
>>
>> More projection from the Apple-hating loser troll. You logged into that
>> account and now like a complete moron you are complaining that your
>> logged-in account is asking for your credentials. How fucking dumb are
>> you? Pretty fucking dumb it appears.
>
> Again, I forgive you for hating all facts about Apple products, Jolly
> Roger. But you hating what Apple does doesn't change what Apple does.
>
> It's clear you have absolutely no idea that you're continually logging into
> Apple servers - because if you didn't - Apple will brick your device.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/q75t7MSk/appleid03.jpg> Apple _disables_ the device!
>
> What you hate is that almost nothing works on Apple products if you simply
> choose to NOT log into Apple's mothership tracking servers every single
> moment of the rest of your life, Jolly Roger.
>
> Which is why I feel sorry for you iKooks after all.
>
> You're so _happy_ being oblivious to everything about Apple products
> that you hate me (and Apple) when I prove to you what Apple does.

You're such an amazing simpleton...

....or bald-face liar...

....or mostly likely of all...

....both!

On 2023-12-13, Wally J <walterjones@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote
>
>>> And it's clear you have absolutely no idea of how Apple does things,
>>> JR.
>>
>> Projection. It is *you* who has absolutely no idea how Apple devices
>> work.
>
> you iKooks have no clue whatsoever

More projection. BTW, repeating yourself isn't winning you any points,
dumb ass.

> there's a login into the iMessage server and _another_ login into the
> iCloud server.

Yes, bozo. That's what happens when you log into a server - it asks for
your credentials. You really are *this* fucking stupid, huh?

> It's no longer shocking you iKooka have no idea how Apple products
> work.

More projection. You exude weak-mindedness.

>> Nope. My iPhone SE hasn't asked or required a login for *years* and
>> continues to work just fine. You don't know what you are talking
>> about.
>
> Ah, but I do. I know full well what happens if you don't log into
> Apple servers when they ask you to "Update Apple ID settings" as shown
> here.

No, you clearly don't know that if you hadn't logged into it in the
first place, it would never ask for your credentials. You are truly an
idiot. You log into servers and then complain when they ask for your
credentials, like a complete moron. Are you a boomer? Because you sire
think like one. 🤣

>> You think iCloud is mandatory when it's not. You think Apple requires
>> you to log in, when they do not. You are a useless, know-nothing
>> troll.
>
> I understand you better than you know yourself

In your fevered dreams.

> I forgive you for lashing out at me

I don't forgive you, Arlen. And I hope you die soon. On that day, we'll
celebrate with a drink here, because the world will instantly become a
bit brighter due to your absence. Count on that. 🙂

>> You caused that by logging into iCloud and iMessage, Arlen. And the
>> fact that you think the rest of us don't know that is pathetic. Your
>> trolls are as weak as your interpersonal skills.
>
> No. You're wrong Jolly Roger.

Nope, I'm right. And I have a years-old 1st generation iPhone SE right
here that is living proof. I haven't been asked to log into *any* Apple
servers for literal *years*. You *desperately* want to pretend this
isn't the case, but it is. And nothing you can ever say will change this
reality.

> Apple who forces you to identify yourself with a government ID if you
> ever stop logging into it.

Nope. You already admitted you never logged out and then forgot your
credentials, like the complete idiot you are.

> It's clear you have absolutely no idea that you're continually logging
> into Apple servers

It's clear you *desperately* want to pretend my iPhone SE hasn't been
logged into an Apple server in many years and works just fine. You also
comically don't remember you already admitted staying logged into Apple
servers then forgetting your own username and password, before turning
around and claiming Apple fucked you like the complete jackass you are.
And you apparently think the rest of us don't remember that too.
Dementia is setting in, eh?

> almost nothing works on Apple products if you simply choose to NOT log
> into Apple's mothership tracking servers every single moment of the
> rest of your life

Objectively and laughably false. 🤣

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote

>> you iKooks have no clue whatsoever
>
> More projection. BTW, repeating yourself isn't winning you any points,
> dumb ass.

You call me a "dumb ass" merely because I showed you were ignorant that
Apple requires _multiple_ logins into multiple servers, and if you do not
frequently log into those mothership servers, Apple will brick the device.

You _hate_ every truth about Apple products, Jolly Roger, so you blame me.
So be it.

>
>> there's a login into the iMessage server and _another_ login into the
>> iCloud server.
>
> Yes, bozo. That's what happens when you log into a server - it asks for
> your credentials. You really are *this* fucking stupid, huh?

Again, you _hate_ every truth about Apple, which you can't dispute.
So you take out your _hatred for Apple_ on the bearer of those truths.

So be it.

>> It's no longer shocking you iKooka have no idea how Apple products
>> work.
>
> More projection. You exude weak-mindedness.

Heh heh heh. You _hate_ all truths about Apple. I tell those truths.
So you hate me.

So be it.

>>> Nope. My iPhone SE hasn't asked or required a login for *years* and
>>> continues to work just fine. You don't know what you are talking
>>> about.
>>
>> Ah, but I do. I know full well what happens if you don't log into
>> Apple servers when they ask you to "Update Apple ID settings" as shown
>> here.
>
> No, you clearly don't know that if you hadn't logged into it in the
> first place, it would never ask for your credentials.

For the first time in oh, I don't know, a dozen posts, you've said
something that is actually correct about Apple products, Jolly Roger.

I never said otherwise, Jolly Roger.

> You are truly an
> idiot. You log into servers and then complain when they ask for your
> credentials, like a complete moron. Are you a boomer? Because you sire
> think like one.

What's interesting is that you _hate_ the truth about Apple so much that
you build this senseless strawman so that you can attack it instead of
accepting the truth about Apple products, Jolly Roger.

You _hate_ that Apple forces you to log in repeatedly for the rest of your
life, don't you? And yet you have no defense to that truth that you hate.

So you hate me simply for teaching you how your Apple product works.
So be it.

>>> You think iCloud is mandatory when it's not. You think Apple requires
>>> you to log in, when they do not. You are a useless, know-nothing
>>> troll.
>>
>> I understand you better than you know yourself
>
> In your fevered dreams.

I love when you post, Jolly Roger.
Because you're the epitome of the average Apple user.

From you, I learn how Apple easily brainwashes that average Apple user.
Thank you.

>> I forgive you for lashing out at me
>
> And I hope you die soon. On that day, we'll
> celebrate with a drink here, because the world will instantly become a
> bit brighter due to your absence. Count on that.

It's a good thing you didn't say it like nospam and Rod Speed did, JR.
So I won't take that as a direct threat worthy of reporting to the FBI.

However...

It does show how deathly afraid you are of me, Jolly Roger.
Simply for telling the truth about Apple products.

The fact you're so deathly afraid of the truth tells me a lot about you.

>
>>> You caused that by logging into iCloud and iMessage. And the
>>> fact that you think the rest of us don't know that is pathetic. Your
>>> trolls are as weak as your interpersonal skills.
>>
>> No. You're wrong Jolly Roger.
>
> Nope, I'm right. And I have a years-old 1st generation iPhone SE right
> here that is living proof. I haven't been asked to log into *any* Apple
> servers for literal *years*. You *desperately* want to pretend this
> isn't the case, but it is. And nothing you can ever say will change this
> reality.

Yes you have, Jolly Roger. You just skip past it and do exactly what they
tell you to do, Jolly Roger. You can't say you've never seen this, can you?
<https://i.postimg.cc/9fPjQpr3/nag01.jpg> 3 iOS nag items

>> Apple who forces you to identify yourself with a government ID if you
>> ever stop logging into it.
>
> Nope. You already admitted you never logged out and then forgot your
> credentials, like the complete idiot you are.

Heh heh heh... again you build a strawman because you can't recognize from
the screenshots that I logged into my own account without any problem once
they _unlocked_ it (I never needed to change the login or password, JR).
<https://i.postimg.cc/7P7NCctS/locked-01.jpg> AppleID is locked by Apple

What you _hate_ Jolly Roger, is that simple fact about Apple products.

Everything you love about Apple, for example, Jolly Roger, is purely due to
one thing & one thing only - which is everything is done on their servers.

You _hate_ that fact.

>> It's clear you have absolutely no idea that you're continually logging
>> into Apple servers
>
> It's clear you *desperately* want to pretend my iPhone SE hasn't been
> logged into an Apple server in many years and works just fine.

Ah, but you have Jolly Roger. You have. You just never explicitly tested
NOT logging into Apple servers every day for the rest of your life.

So you never saw this:
<https://i.postimg.cc/vTdfLY2f/locked-03.jpg> Apple wants a gov license!

> You also
> comically don't remember you already admitted staying logged into Apple
> servers then forgetting your own username and password, before turning
> around and claiming Apple fucked you like the complete jackass you are.
> And you apparently think the rest of us don't remember that too.
> Dementia is setting in, eh?

I know the AppleID login and password to _all_ my iPads, Jolly Roger.
Apple locked the account because I didn't log into them frequently enough.

Haven't you ever seen this message from Apple, Jolly Roger?
<https://i.postimg.cc/3NVqB4dC/nag03.jpg>

>> almost nothing works on Apple products if you simply choose to NOT log
>> into Apple's mothership tracking servers every single moment of the
>> rest of your life
>
> Objectively and laughably false.

I love you Jolly Roger - so I'd ask you to run a simple experiment please.

Try NOT logging into your wondrous Apple servers, Jolly Roger.
And _then_ tell me that the statement is "false"....

But I do appreciate that you show how much you hate facts about Apple
products... so much that you wish me dead... simply for telling the facts.

Interesting how much you, nospam and Rod Speed all hate facts about Apple.
--
HINT: Almost nothing works unless you log into Apple's mothership servers.

On 2023-12-12 21:45, Wally J wrote:
> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote
>
>>> you iKooks have no clue whatsoever
>>
>> More projection. BTW, repeating yourself isn't winning you any points,
>> dumb ass.
>
> You call me a "dumb ass" merely because I showed you were ignorant that
> Apple requires _multiple_ logins into multiple servers, and if you do not
> frequently log into those mothership servers, Apple will brick the device.

This is false.

On 10.12.23 14:26, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2023-12-10 04:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> In advanced markets MMS does not exist anymore.
>
> You mean in overpriced telecoms markets like Europe. MMS is still very
> relevant when out of WiFi range and using the cellco for basic chat with
> images and video and not using a 3rd party app.

*ROTFLSTC*
The price level in underdeveloped markets like the US are almost double
what they are in Europe or Asia.

--
"Roma locuta, causa finita." (Augustinus)

On 12.12.23 14:34, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2023-12-12 04:13, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> Google-RCS will fail inevitably: It has no unique selling proposition
>> compared to other messengers which exist already for roughly a decade.
>
> It will have more appeal in North America as many European posters here
> are quick to point out.

In underdeveloped markets like the US. I doubt it.
My experience with my friends in the US tells me otherwise.

--
"Roma locuta, causa finita." (Augustinus)

On 2023-12-13 07:16, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> On 10.12.23 14:26, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2023-12-10 04:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>> In advanced markets MMS does not exist anymore.
>>
>> You mean in overpriced telecoms markets like Europe. MMS is still very
>> relevant when out of WiFi range and using the cellco for basic chat with
>> images and video and not using a 3rd party app.
>
> *ROTFLSTC*
> The price level in underdeveloped markets like the US are almost double
> what they are in Europe or Asia.

Then why do they charge so much for MMS in Europe? Have to make up for
the cheap plans?

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote

>> The price level in underdeveloped markets like the US are almost double
>> what they are in Europe or Asia.
>
> Then why do they charge so much for MMS in Europe? Have to make up for
> the cheap plans?

I don't see anything from Joerg but I do see Alan Brown's posts where I pay
about $25 a month per line for unlimited everything in the USA on T-Mobile.
<https://i.postimg.cc/L6dFGXVd/tmopromo03.jpg> $100 for 6 lines + $16 fees
Note: Two of those lines are free for life, but Apple bricked one iPad.

How much does unlimited everything typically cost in Europe & in the UK?

On 13 Dec 2023 08:58:11 -0500 Alan Browne wrote:
>On 2023-12-13 07:16, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> On 10.12.23 14:26, Alan Browne wrote:
>>> On 2023-12-10 04:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>> In advanced markets MMS does not exist anymore.
>>>
>>> You mean in overpriced telecoms markets like Europe. MMS is still very
>>> relevant when out of WiFi range and using the cellco for basic chat with
>>> images and video and not using a 3rd party app.
>>
>> *ROTFLSTC*
>> The price level in underdeveloped markets like the US are almost double
>> what they are in Europe or Asia.
>
>Then why do they charge so much for MMS in Europe? Have to make up for
>the cheap plans?

Here in the UK there is keen competition on price, wide network coverage,
and it's easy to swap mobile supplier and port your phone number. The
standard competitive offering these days is a SIM-only rolling monthly
contract with unlimited voice calls and SMSs and varying amounts of data:
typicaly £10/month upwards but can be half that for small amounts of
data. To my knowledge MMSs are always extra - a quick google suggests
£0.5 per MMS is typical. Few people use them so there's no incentive to
include them and every incentive to charge a lot for them.

I think the unpopularity of MMSs is historical, predating smartphones and
the rise of mobile data. Kids sent huge numbers of SMSs, and we adults
used them quite a lot, so operators offered ever higher numbers of them
'free'. MMS never caught on - probably because the experience on a tiny
display was so poor. With smartphones the number of SMSs has declined
drastically, so they're free.

Soon after smartphones appeared, there was WhatsApp! Everybody - apart
from all-iPhone families - had WA and knew that, for sharing photos and
videos, that's what you used. (This was back in the days of Android 4.)

I can't speak knowledgeably about 'Europe' as a whole but for countries
I've had SIMs for, it seemed the same.
--
(Remove numerics from email address)

On 2023-12-13, Wally J <walterjones@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote
>
>>> you iKooks have no clue whatsoever
>>
>> More projection. BTW, repeating yourself isn't winning you any
>> points, dumb ass.
>
> You call me a "dumb ass" merely because I showed you were ignorant
> that Apple requires _multiple_ logins into multiple servers

No, you're a dumb ass for signing into servers and then complaining when
the servers ask you to verify your credentials. If you don't sign in,
you don't get asked for your credentials, idiot. You have to be a boomer.
There's no other explanation. Also, stop bitching and moaning about
insults when every single post you make here for the past decade calls
Apple users "iKooks" and worse, you fucking crybaby. 🤣

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote

>> You call me a "dumb ass" merely because I showed you were ignorant
>> that Apple requires _multiple_ logins into multiple servers
>
> No, you're a dumb ass for signing into servers and then complaining when
> the servers ask you to verify your credentials.

Hi Jolly Roger,

I've tested it. You haven't.
<https://i.postimg.cc/8zSvshQf/appleid04.jpg> Apple _locks_ you out!

In fact, I've tested it, on purpose, for years.
<https://i.postimg.cc/8k3GQyj4/appleid09.jpg> Apple tracks your activity

You haven't tested it for one second.
<https://i.postimg.cc/hhFNJ5mq/appleid010.jpg> Apps become non functional

So I respectfully say you don't know what you're talking about, JR.
I do.
<https://i.postimg.cc/nrFHSvby/appleid11.jpg> Apple _forces_ extra logins!

Meanwhile, I tested it also on Android, and guess what! No ID needed.
<https://i.postimg.cc/NG5pHyBx/aurora10.jpg> No need for a Google Account

I think you don't understand _why_ I tested Apple's words against Apple's
actions, just as I test Google's words against their actual actions, JR.

While Apple brags (rightly so) about how "great" their "integration" is,
what Apple doesn't brag about is that nothing works unless you're
constantly logging into Apple's many mothership tracking servers.

That's just a fact, Jolly Roger.

No other common consumer operating system requires such a tremendous level
of constantly logging into their mothership tracking servers (although
Windows 11 is "starting" to get as bad as Apple is on lack of privacy).

> If you don't sign in,
> you don't get asked for your credentials, idiot.

Jolly Roger,
Stop trying to insult my intelligence because it's you who couldn't pass
your GED exam (you said you tried three times and failed); so just stop it.

I know your IQ better than you do, Jolly Roger.
I know you're _desperate_ for me to just go away.
I know your child-like brain thinks calling me an "idiot" will do that.

The fact that you don't understand how Apple products work doesn't make me
an idiot - when - in fact - nothing works in the walled garden if you stop
logging into it (day after day, month after month, year after year), JR.

> You have to be a boomer.
> There's no other explanation. Also, stop bitching and moaning about
> insults when every single post you make here for the past decade calls
> Apple users "iKooks" and worse, you fucking crybaby.

Jolly Roger,

Don't worry about insulting me - as it's not possible - just as Alan Baker
tries to tell me I'm stupid when he claims to drive bimmers and teach
racing yet he doesn't have any idea what the vehicles are called in racing
circuits (which, let's be clear - only a moron wouldn't know).

Its the same with Alan Browne who hates me for telling him the truth about
Apple - so much that he calls me an "it" (as if that hurts my feelings).

These morons have no idea that the very fact that all they have are
kindergarten insults - says so much about them instead of about me.

I simply tell each of you the truth about yourselves, Jolly Roger.
Because I study you rather strange iKooks.

In decades at startups in the Silicon Valley I never met people like you
iKooks who hate all facts so much that you call every person who tells you
a fact that you don't want to hear - some childish kindergarten taunt.

It's the same with you Jolly Roger. You can't possibly insult me.
Yet you try.

You want me dead.
Simply because I told you the truth about Apple products, Jolly Roger.

You don't even know the difference between a megabit and a decibel, JR.
You proved that many times - and if you deny it - I'll provide cites.

Snit tried to pull that game with me years ago, Jolly Roger.
<https://youtu.be/7QaABa6DFIo> iKooks can't even see the fatal flaw!

None of you iKooks can tell the difference between a decibel and a megabit,
so of course Apple marketing plays you like a fiddle, Jolly Roger.

I understand you because I study you, Jolly Roger.

You don't hate Apple for playing you like a fiddle, Jolly Roger.
You hate me for telling you the truth about Apple products, Jolly Roger.

So be it.
--
The last think the iKooks want to know is any fact or truth about Apple.

On 2023-12-13 10:26, Dave Royal wrote:
> On 13 Dec 2023 08:58:11 -0500 Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2023-12-13 07:16, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>> On 10.12.23 14:26, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>> On 2023-12-10 04:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>> In advanced markets MMS does not exist anymore.
>>>>
>>>> You mean in overpriced telecoms markets like Europe. MMS is still very
>>>> relevant when out of WiFi range and using the cellco for basic chat with
>>>> images and video and not using a 3rd party app.
>>>
>>> *ROTFLSTC*
>>> The price level in underdeveloped markets like the US are almost double
>>> what they are in Europe or Asia.
>>
>> Then why do they charge so much for MMS in Europe? Have to make up for
>> the cheap plans?
>
> Here in the UK there is keen competition on price, wide network coverage,
> and it's easy to swap mobile supplier and port your phone number. The
> standard competitive offering these days is a SIM-only rolling monthly
> contract with unlimited voice calls and SMSs and varying amounts of data:
> typicaly £10/month upwards but can be half that for small amounts of

Amazing. Here (Canada) an unlimited contract with a paltry 3 - 5 GB of
data is on the order of $40+tax/month. This would be a bring-your-own
phone annual deal. Actually I'm contract free at the moment. So they
bill me monthly. I can walk at any moment and take my number with me.
They're always "upselling" (more data for a small increase in fee).

> data. To my knowledge MMSs are always extra - a quick google suggests
> £0.5 per MMS is typical. Few people use them so there's no incentive to
> include them and every incentive to charge a lot for them.

No extra charge here for larger files (videos, etc.).

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 2023-12-13, Wally J <walterjones@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote
>
>>> You call me a "dumb ass" merely because I showed you were ignorant
>>> that Apple requires _multiple_ logins into multiple servers
>>
>> No, you're a dumb ass for signing into servers and then complaining
>> when the servers ask you to verify your credentials.
>
> Hi Jolly Roger,
>
> I've tested it. You haven't.

My iPhone SE that has been functioning perfectly without being signed
into Apple's servers is living proof I *have* tested it. Your crippled
device is proof that you:
1. signed into Apple servers
2. forgot your credentials
3. got locked out of Apple services as a result of your stupidity
4. turned around and blamed Apple like the dip shit boomer you are
5. lied about it in order to troll the Apple newsgroups

> In fact, I've tested it, on purpose, for years.

Translation: "I've sabotaged myself in order to troll for years."

> You haven't tested it for one second.

My iPhone SE has been running fine for *years* without being logged into
Apple servers. 🙂

> So I respectfully say you don't know what you're talking about, JR.

Projection, as usual.

> While Apple brags (rightly so) about how "great" their "integration"
> is, what Apple doesn't brag about is that nothing works unless you're
> constantly logging into Apple's many mothership tracking servers.

Repeating this lie doesn't magically make it become true, Arlen. You
signed into Apple servers and like a moron you are complaining that
Apple servers asked for your credentials. You're a clown. 🤡

>> If you don't sign in, you don't get asked for your credentials,
>> idiot.
>
> Jolly Roger, Stop trying to insult my intelligence because it's you
> who couldn't pass your GED exam (you said you tried three times and
> failed); so just stop it.

The record shows that unlike you, I have never discussed or bragged
about my education on Usenet or anywhere else on the net, Arlen. And to
prove it, you can't reference any post of mine on Usenet that does so.
Because it doesn't exist. Your schoolyard insults are juvenile and weak,
like your character. Your brazen and outlandish lies are frankly
pathetic.

> I know your IQ better than you do, Jolly Roger.

The pathetic troll thinks IQ pissing contests are a measure of worth.

> I know you're _desperate_ for me to just go away.

Says the loser who is literally trolling a newsgroup for a product he
clearly hates, hour after hour, day after day. If anyone is desperate,
it's you. 🤣

> These morons have no idea that the very fact that all they have are
> kindergarten insults - says so much about them instead of about me.

Says the loser troll who regularly calls everyone in the Apple news
groups "iKooks":

> Because I study you rather strange iKooks.

> You don't even know the difference between a megabit and a decibel,
> JR. You proved that many times - and if you deny it - I'll provide
> cites.

You can't provide cites of me supposedly not being able to differentiate
between those two words, because it doesn't exist. Just like you can't
provide cites of me talking about my education. You, on the other hand
*regularly* boast about your education, posting pictures of old books
and calling everyone you hate "low IQ". You can't help but project your
weaknesses onto others, like all pathetic losers do.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

On 2023-12-13 09:15, Wally J wrote:
> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote
>
>>> You call me a "dumb ass" merely because I showed you were ignorant
>>> that Apple requires _multiple_ logins into multiple servers
>>
>> No, you're a dumb ass for signing into servers and then complaining when
>> the servers ask you to verify your credentials.
>
> Hi Jolly Roger,
>
> I've tested it. You haven't.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/8zSvshQf/appleid04.jpg> Apple _locks_ you out!

What that doesn't show is the REASON for locking it out...

>
> In fact, I've tested it, on purpose, for years.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/8k3GQyj4/appleid09.jpg> Apple tracks your activity

If you've created an AppleID...

>
> You haven't tested it for one second.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/hhFNJ5mq/appleid010.jpg> Apps become non functional

The very nature if a messaging app REQUIRES an ID.

>
> So I respectfully say you don't know what you're talking about, JR.
> I do.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/nrFHSvby/appleid11.jpg> Apple _forces_ extra logins!

"Some account SERVICES..."

>
> Meanwhile, I tested it also on Android, and guess what! No ID needed.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/NG5pHyBx/aurora10.jpg> No need for a Google Account

"404 Not found"

So no proof of your essential claim.

On 2023-12-11 20:35:00 +0000, Your Name said:
> On 2023-12-09 22:50:20 +0000, Your Name said:
>> On 2023-12-09 15:19:52 +0000, Andy Burns said:
>>> Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>>> Tyrone wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> As expected, Apple has already killed this. Did anyone REALLY think
>>>>> Apple would permit this?
>>>>
>>>> Do have any reference/proof for this? (I didn't see any such thing in
>>>> the article, nor in the original Business Insider article.)
>>>
>>> <https://www.androidpolice.com/beeper-mini-outage-b/>
>>>
>>> <https://techcrunch.com/2023/12/08/apple-cuts-off-beeper-minis-access-after-launch-of-service-that-brought-imessage-to-android/>
>>>
>>>
>>>> So *what* exactly *did* Apple 'kill'?
>>>
>>> At a rough guess, Apple have initially blocked Beeper's IPs from their
>>> firewall?
>>
>> The Beeper Mini developer is already working on a fix:
>>
>> Beeper Mini developers say fix is 'coming soon'
>> for iMessage Android app
>>
>> <https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/12/09/beeper-mini-developers-say-fix-is-coming-soon-for-imessage-android-app>
>>
>>
>>
>> But as that articles says ...
>>
>> "If Beeper Mini is fixed to work once more, it may face a
>> similar issue in the not-so-distant future. With Apple
>> keen to keep iMessage to only its own ecosystem of
>> devices, this may result in a security arms race between
>> the trillion-dollar iPhone maker and developers wanting
>> iMessage to work with Android."
>>
>> so it may not work for long before being blocked again. Continually
>> being blocked would mean it's not really a viable solution to anything
>> at all, whether that's Android user's "blue bubble phobia" or "lack of
>> features".
>
> Beeper Mini is working again ...
>
> Beeper Mini for Android lives again,
> but for how long is anybody's guess
>
> <https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/12/11/beeper-mini-for-android-lives-again-but-for-how-long-is-anybodys-guess>
>
>
>
> ... bets on how long it will take Apple to block it again?

And it's gone again ... at least for a few users (although supposedly
simply reinstalling the app "fixes" the problem).

Beeper Mini is down for 5% of users, but there's a fix

<https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/12/14/beeper-mini-is-down-for-5-of-users-but-theres-a-fix>

Who had 2 days in the betting pool?? ;-)

Am 13.12.23 um 14:58 schrieb Alan Browne:
> On 2023-12-13 07:16, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> On 10.12.23 14:26, Alan Browne wrote:
>>> On 2023-12-10 04:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>> In advanced markets MMS does not exist anymore.
>>>
>>> You mean in overpriced telecoms markets like Europe. MMS is still very
>>> relevant when out of WiFi range and using the cellco for basic chat with
>>> images and video and not using a 3rd party app.
>>
>> *ROTFLSTC*
>> The price level in underdeveloped markets like the US are almost double
>> what they are in Europe or Asia.
>
> Then why do they charge so much for MMS in Europe? Have to make up for
> the cheap plans?

There are no MMS anymore in Europe. At least in the majority of the
markets. The quality and reliability of MMS is so inferior, that nobody
used them anymore for years. Hence most providers stopped the serivce.

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

Am 13.12.23 um 20:17 schrieb Alan Browne:
> Amazing. Here (Canada) an unlimited contract with a paltry 3 - 5 GB of
> data is on the order of $40+tax/month. This would be a bring-your-own
> phone annual deal.

My Wingo Business costs me $50/month everything flat golablly inculding
the US and Canada. Unlimited data roaming everywhere. To put that into
perspective: Switzerland is rather a high price country for
communication services.

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote

>> ... bets on how long it will take Apple to block it again?
>
> And it's gone again ... at least for a few users (although supposedly
> simply reinstalling the app "fixes" the problem).
>
> Beeper Mini is down for 5% of users, but there's a fix
>
> <https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/12/14/beeper-mini-is-down-for-5-of-users-but-theres-a-fix>

Whack-a-Mole

The child-like Apple posters are likely unaware of this, but this
whack-a-mole action<->reaction seems to be looking eerily familiar.

It's kind of what happened to the FOSS Google Play Store app when it first
debuted (and whose developers personally fixed many times, sometimes at my
request as seen on the XDA Developers web site).

And this whack-a-mole action:reaction is similar to what happened to the
FOSS YouTube app (whose developers I have had few interactions with).

Based on my limited interaction with these developers, what seems to happen
is

a. Developer uses the public-facing APIs to access Apple/Google content
b. Apple/Google figure out how they did it (the FOSS apps are open source)
c. Apple/Google shut down as much as they can legally shut down

But, since the APIs are public (at least to Google Play Store & YouTube
content they are) there's only so much that Google can do (on Android)
to stop people from having an app that does _exactly_ what they want it to
do.

Note: On iOS, Apple is in cahoots with Google such that Apple does not
allow the FOSS YouTube and Google Play Store apps to exist on iOS.

Wally J wrote:

> since the APIs are public (at least to Google Play Store & YouTube
> content they are) there's only so much that Google can do (on
> Android) to stop people from having an app that doesexactly what
> they want it to do.

In a way, it's surprising the iMessage app doesn't use a client
certificate, that's stored in the Secure Enclave, or for older devices
that's retrieved from the iCloud account.

On 2023-12-14 09:55, Andy Burns wrote:

> In a way, it's surprising the iMessage app doesn't use a client
> certificate, that's stored in the Secure Enclave, or for older devices
> that's retrieved from the iCloud account.

What I've said for a bit. Actually any known item that the server can
challenge the device to encrypt with an Apple originated key and send
back to validate. This might be a challenge to implement for some older
Macs, OS versions however.

Older devices w/o a secure enclave could be easy to mimic, however.

Apple have to be able to defeat this attack w/o maiming valid users.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote

>> In a way, it's surprising the iMessage app doesn't use a client
>> certificate, that's stored in the Secure Enclave, or for older devices
>> that's retrieved from the iCloud account.
>
> What I've said for a bit. Actually any known item that the server can
> challenge the device to encrypt with an Apple originated key and send
> back to validate. This might be a challenge to implement for some older
> Macs, OS versions however.

I always easily agree with anyone who makes a sensibly logical assessment.
I agree with Alan/Andy that it's odd that doesn't secure iMessage better.

> Older devices w/o a secure enclave could be easy to mimic, however.

Given the secure enclave chip is well known to contain fatal flaws,
I don't know if people would want an unfixable flaw again in their device.

> Apple have to be able to defeat this attack w/o maiming valid users.

Apple lies when they claim to want interoperability - and - the very fact
you call interoperability an "attack" shows exactly how your mind works.
--
To Apple (& to Alan Browne) - interoperability is considered an "attack".
Message-ID: <LWEeN.18792$xHn7.13574@fx14.iad>

On 2023-12-12 02:04, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2023-12-11 17:57, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> On 2023-12-11 19:29, Alan Browne wrote:
>>> On 2023-12-11 11:08, Dave Royal wrote:
>
>>>> It is rumoured that Apple will enable RCS in their default message
>>>> app in
>>>
>>> No rumour.  Apple have said they will.
>>>
>>>> 2024 (not replacing iMessage) which is to be welcomed IMO. No doubt
>>>> people
>>>> will continue to use proprietary apps and protocols when they want
>>>> extra
>>>> features - eg e2ee.
>>>
>>> It does E2E already in some instances.  But Apple is seeking a
>>> non-3rd-party solution to E2E in RCS.
>>>
>>> https://www.techradar.com/phones/iphone/breaking-apple-will-support-rcs-in-2024
>>
>> I'd guess Apple is seeking a Non-Google solution to E2E in RCS. They
>> are too late for that. :-D
>
> Why "too late"?
>
> "Apple says it won't be supporting any proprietary extensions that seek
> to add encryption on top of RCS and hopes, instead, to work with the GSM
> Association to add encryption to the standard."  techradar link above.

Half of the world is already using the Google implementation of RCS that
includes E2E. If Apple wants their own implementation instead, they
should have done that 5 or 10 years ago.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2023-12-15, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2023-12-12 02:04, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2023-12-11 17:57, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>
>>> I'd guess Apple is seeking a Non-Google solution to E2E in RCS. They
>>> are too late for that. :-D
>>
>> Why "too late"?
>>
>> "Apple says it won't be supporting any proprietary extensions that
>> seek to add encryption on top of RCS and hopes, instead, to work with
>> the GSM Association to add encryption to the standard."  techradar
>> link above.
>
> Half of the world is already using the Google implementation of RCS
> that includes E2E.

Yeah, it's not like Google hasn't dropped numerous messaging services
before... oh, wait:

<https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/08/a-decade-and-a-half-of-instability-the-history-of-google-messaging-apps/>

And besides, the fact that "half of the world" (debatable) is using
Google's RCS encryption doesn't prove it's supposedly too late for Apple
to work with industry leaders to create an encryption standard for RCS.
It's never too late for that.

> If Apple wants their own implementation

You haven't been paying attention. Apple doesn't want their own
implementation - they want an industry standard implementation not
controlled by a single vendor (especially one that literally makes money
by tracking users, building fingerprints of them, and targeting them
with advertising and malware).

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

On 2023-12-15 17:32, Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2023-12-15, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2023-12-12 02:04, Alan Browne wrote:
>>> On 2023-12-11 17:57, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'd guess Apple is seeking a Non-Google solution to E2E in RCS. They
>>>> are too late for that. :-D
>>>
>>> Why "too late"?
>>>
>>> "Apple says it won't be supporting any proprietary extensions that
>>> seek to add encryption on top of RCS and hopes, instead, to work with
>>> the GSM Association to add encryption to the standard."  techradar
>>> link above.
>>
>> Half of the world is already using the Google implementation of RCS
>> that includes E2E.
>
> Yeah, it's not like Google hasn't dropped numerous messaging services
> before... oh, wait:
>
> <https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/08/a-decade-and-a-half-of-instability-the-history-of-google-messaging-apps/>
>
> And besides, the fact that "half of the world" (debatable) is using
> Google's RCS encryption doesn't prove it's supposedly too late for Apple
> to work with industry leaders to create an encryption standard for RCS.
> It's never too late for that.

What industry leaders would be those? :-D

>
>> If Apple wants their own implementation
>
> You haven't been paying attention. Apple doesn't want their own
> implementation - they want an industry standard implementation not
> controlled by a single vendor (especially one that literally makes money
> by tracking users, building fingerprints of them, and targeting them
> with advertising and malware).

Ok, fine, but are there any industry leaders left out doing RCS
implementations? Samsung dropped out, they use the Google one instead.

I'm all for standards, I really am. I use open document formats, for
instance. I don't use Word.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote

>> If Apple wants their own implementation
>
> You haven't been paying attention. Apple doesn't want their own
> implementation - they want an industry standard implementation not
> controlled by a single vendor (especially one that literally makes money
> by tracking users, building fingerprints of them, and targeting them
> with advertising and malware).

What Apple "wants" is, rather obviously, to protect their walled garden.
At any cost.

Alan Browne was actually perfectly correct when he called any integration
into the Apple ecosystem an "attack" upon Apple's core values, Jolly Roger.
--
To Apple (& to Alan Browne) - interoperability is considered an "attack".
Message-ID: <LWEeN.18792$xHn7.13574@fx14.iad>