On 2023-12-10 04:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> On 09.12.23 23:04, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2023-12-09 16:21, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>> On 2023-12-09 21:05, Wally J wrote:
>>>> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
>>>>
>>>>>> Not at all.  Apple's system is not a walled garden.  More like an
>>>>>> exclusive country club where you get more but can also go anywhere off
>>>>>> of the club you want.
>>>>>
>>>>> The point is that *here* there are only 21% of iPhones, so those users
>>>>> have to get out of their walled garden to talk with the people, 80% of
>>>>> which are on Android. So, they don't use iMessages.
>>>>
>>>> Carlos brings up the valid points that most of the world is on
>>>> Android, and
>>>> most of the world seems to use WhatsApp (which is the same as iMessage
>>>> anyway, in terms of needing to connect to a middleman mothership server).
>>>>
>>>> But even those on Android in the US have no problem communicating with
>>>> iPhone users; it's always mainly the iPhone users who complain about it.
>>>
>>> That is not so.
>>>
>>> Android users have to communicate with iPhone users using third party
>>> tools, like WhatsApp, thats not popular in the USA, or ancient protocols
>>> like SMS, which lack features. Or use MMS, which in many countries it is
>>> expensive, or is being phased out.
>>
>> MMS has no additional cost here but may contribute to the user's monthly
>> bandwidth plan limit.
>
> In advanced markets MMS does not exist anymore.

You mean in overpriced telecoms markets like Europe. MMS is still very
relevant when out of WiFi range and using the cellco for basic chat with
images and video and not using a 3rd party app.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 2023-12-10 07:22, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2023-12-10 10:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> On 09.12.23 22:21, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>
>>> So yes, we do have problems and we do complain.
>>
>> I think this is a fair statement. iPhone users do not complain.
>
> Yes, they do, when they want to communicate with Android users and can
> not send photos or multimedia, unless they ditch iMessages and switch to
> WhatsApp.

Eh? I send/receive photos and videos to/from people with Android phones
all the time - using basic message service (cell phone). Of course such
is covered in data plans here as part of overall "data" so there are no
ridiculous charges as one may see in Europe and elsewhere.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

Wally J wrote:

>> I can understand why Android users are trying to break into the
>>iMessage world and why Apple is resisting.
>
>I don't think that's a correct statement.
>
> It's not the Android users complaining.
> It's the Apple users who complain.

Let's just agree to disagree.

I don't hear iOS users wanting Apple to open up iMessage so Android
users can be integrated into their conversations. I hear Android users
creating all sort of apps and workarounds to integrate into iMessage.
Isn't that what this thread and several others we've had are all about?

badgolferman wrote:

> I don't hear iOS users wanting Apple to open up iMessage so Android
> users can be integrated into their conversations. I hear Android users
> creating all sort of apps and workarounds to integrate into iMessage.

I can send SMS (and if justified) MMS messages to people with iPhones, I
neither know or care what application they view them in, or what colour
bubble I get. If in a few months I can also send them RCS messages, all
the better.

Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
> On 2023-12-09 14:56, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> > Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
> >> On 2023-12-09 13:47, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> >>> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
> >>>> On 2023-12-09 10:03, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> > [...]
> >>> Note that Jörg is comparing iMessage to the other mentioned IM
> >>> platforms.
> >>>
> >>> Those IM platforms *are* available on multiple OS platforms. For
> >>> example WhatsApp is available on Android, iOS, macOS and for other
> >>> platforms there's WhatsApp Web. So WhatsApp not only works between
> >>> Apple devices, but also with/between the other mentioned devices.
> >>>
> >>> So what you say "is not practically feasible", *is* actually possible.
> >>>
> >>> And how's iMessage's "feature set" only on/between Apple devices
> >>> supposed to be better than - for example - WhatsApp's feature set
> >>> on/between Apple *and* non-Apple devices?
> >>
> >> Where iMessage (the service and/or the app) provides extensions related
> >> to various Apple devices, 3rd party extensions and so on.
> >
> > Can you eloborate on that? What kind of extensions? What kind of extra
> > functionality do they offer, which is not or not likely to be available
> > on other IM platforms?
>
> Payments, use the camera from messages, location, Dropbox integration,
> etc. "Check-in" to auto-message someone when you've arrived at a planned
> destination, graphical messages (time-oriented playback of how you gen'd
> the message), maps ... etc. too many to list.

Thanks for the info.

WhatsApp has a few of these (camera, location, cloud), but probably
(I've not really needed any of these, so I don't know) not most/all.

BTW, in our country (NL) we have a payment system ('Tikkie', nudge)
which works with WhatsApp (and other messaging systems), so the
integration is there, but generic, instead of IM platform specific.

[...]

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> badgolferman wrote:
>
> > I don't hear iOS users wanting Apple to open up iMessage so Android
> > users can be integrated into their conversations. I hear Android users
> > creating all sort of apps and workarounds to integrate into iMessage.

FTR, Android *users* do no such thing. In this case it's an app
*developper* which tries "to integrate into iMessage".

> I can send SMS (and if justified) MMS messages to people with iPhones, I
> neither know or care what application they view them in, or what colour
> bubble I get. If in a few months I can also send them RCS messages, all
> the better.

Exactly. And as you indicate, the whole 'bubble colour' (non-)argument
is mindblowingly stupid. Who *cares* what colour *'our'* messages are on
*'their'* screens!? Have I ever been worried about what kind of colours
you use in Thunderbird? I don't think so!

On 2023-12-10, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2023-12-10 10:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> On 09.12.23 22:21, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>> On 2023-12-09 21:05, Wally J wrote:
>>>> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
>>>>
>>>>>> Not at all.  Apple's system is not a walled garden.  More like an
>>>>>> exclusive country club where you get more but can also go
>>>>>> anywhere off of the club you want.
>>>>>
>>>>> The point is that *here* there are only 21% of iPhones, so those
>>>>> users have to get out of their walled garden to talk with the
>>>>> people, 80% of which are on Android. So, they don't use iMessages.
>>>>
>>>> Carlos brings up the valid points that most of the world is on
>>>> Android, and most of the world seems to use WhatsApp (which is the
>>>> same as iMessage anyway, in terms of needing to connect to a
>>>> middleman mothership server).
>>>>
>>>> But even those on Android in the US have no problem communicating
>>>> with iPhone users; it's always mainly the iPhone users who complain
>>>> about it.
>>>
>>> That is not so.
>>>
>>> Android users have to communicate with iPhone users using third
>>> party tools, like WhatsApp, thats not popular in the USA, or ancient
>>> protocols like SMS, which lack features. Or use MMS, which in many
>>> countries it is expensive, or is being phased out.
>>>
>>> So yes, we do have problems and we do complain.
>>
>> I think this is a fair statement. iPhone users do not complain.
>
> Yes, they do, when they want to communicate with Android users and can
> not send photos or multimedia

No, they can send photos and multimedia.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote

>> What's the problem on Android that needs to be solved in messaging?
>>
>> There are two ways to look at that question, which are fundamental:
>> A. What's the problem when Android users interact with Android users?
>> B. What's the problem when Android users interact with iOS users?
>
> For me, no photos or any multimedia content, just plain text, unless
> they use WhatsApp.
>
>>
>> If there's a problem, why don't I experience it interacting with both?
>
> You have free MMS. I don't.

Hi Carlos,

I'm always trying to understand everyone's problems, logically & sensibly.

Thanks for explaining that which I was aware of but which I don't associate
with "Android" per se, but with the way carriers charge for MMS messages.

I appreciate that patient answer as you know I know about Andy's and your
MMS issues being solved with RCS - but I was trying to figure out why only
the iOS users complained about their messaging app and not Android users.

I can _easily_ agree with you that if the solution to the MMS charges are a
different MMS app (such as Google's recently renamed app with RCS), then
that's a solution which is on Android - even as it's not an Android issue.

I'm all for using all the free capabilities that apps provide us, so I'm
100% with you and Andy and anyone else who wants free MMS who doesn't have
it (where it's never free but it's "bundled" into our service in the USA).

Your answer is helpful in that I am trying to explain to the iKooks that
nobody on Android is complaining about their Android messaging app per se.

It's only the iKooks who complain about it.

What you're complaining about is not that Android doesn't support RCS,
but that Apple doesn't yet support RCS (which is a different thing also).
--
Factual information + logic + sense = intelligent assessments of fact

Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote

>>>> Android users have to communicate with iPhone users using third
>>>> party tools, like WhatsApp, thats not popular in the USA, or ancient
>>>> protocols like SMS, which lack features. Or use MMS, which in many
>>>> countries it is expensive, or is being phased out.
>>>>
>>>> So yes, we do have problems and we do complain.
>>>
>>> I think this is a fair statement. iPhone users do not complain.
>>
>> Yes, they do, when they want to communicate with Android users and can
>> not send photos or multimedia
>
> No, they can send photos and multimedia.

I strive to comprehend the fundamental problems involved - to solve them.

First off, it _is_ the iPhone people doing most of the complaining here.
But, there are _also_ some Android users also complaining about messaging.

As always, I strive to comprehend what the problem set is we're solving.

The Android users' complaint appears to be that Apple doesn't support RCS
yet and some people (those who are charged for MMS messages mostly)
naturally want to send MMS messages via RCS to Apple users. (That's NOT an
Android problem, by the way - that's clearly an iOS problem since there are
already a half dozen free Android messaging apps which support RCS.)

In addition, there are _plenty_ of cross-platform messaging apps which
support sending MMS messages over the Internet such as this Android app.
<https://home.pulsesms.app/overview/>'
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTcn1wfmWjU>

So it's not that the Android users can't send MMS for free; it's that they
want to send them to iOS users using either RCS or a different mechanism.

Which means Android has no problem sending those MMS images for free.
It's iOS that can't get them.

Now for the iOS side of the complaints, most of the complaints from the iOS
users appears to be about the color of the bubbles - which is just absurd.

Ignoring the silly color of the bubbles (heck, Android users can set any
conversation or group to any color they want to set them to - which is one
of the many things the utterly primitive iMessages system can't do) what
are the iOS users complaining about if it's NOT that they can't get the MMS
messages from Android users who want to send them for free via RCS?

Other than silly bubble colors, why are iOS users complaining so much here?

Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote

>> Yes, they do, when they want to communicate with Android users and can
>> not send photos or multimedia, unless they ditch iMessages and switch to
>> WhatsApp.
>
> Eh? I send/receive photos and videos to/from people with Android phones
> all the time - using basic message service (cell phone). Of course such
> is covered in data plans here as part of overall "data" so there are no
> ridiculous charges as one may see in Europe and elsewhere.

If I understand the problem set from Carlos & Andy Burns, it's NOT an
Andrloid problem - but - it _is_ an iOS inability to handle protocols.

Android users can send free MMS via RCS but iOS users can't receive them.
Whose fault is that?

In so many ways the primitive iMessages server system can't do the simplest
of things which Android has had for a very long time - where RCS is one.

"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote

>> Bullshit. In the US more than 50% of the installed base are iPhones.
>> Hence the discussion here which in most other regions of the world are
>> absolutely irrelevant.
>
> It is relevant for me, who don't live in the USA.

Hi Carlos,
Please don't take anything jughead Lorenze says as if it were well thought
out. He's upset because the primitive iMessages system can't do this stuff.
<https://home.pulsesms.app/overview/>'
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTcn1wfmWjU>
>>> But even those on Android in the US have no problem communicating with
>>> iPhone users; it's always mainly the iPhone users who complain about it.
>>
>> Even more bullshit. Apple devices have their own software and systems.
>> Android not. That is the reason why Google tries to spread such an
>> inferior chat tool like RCS. The American market is the driving force
>> idiot. And stop try to spread FUD and lies.
>
> Bullshit. :-P

Hi Carlos,

Nobody responds to Alan Baker or Jughead Lorenze if they want to have an
intelligent discussion that would befit an actual adult conversation.

Given iOS messages is nothing different than any Internet messaging
<https://i.postimg.cc/rwyGPpV9/locked-05.jpg> you log into iOS Messages!

*Apple Messages === WhatsApp* (they're the same thing fundamentally)

Clearly Jughead Lorenze isn't aware there are a half dozen Android apps
which support RCS (Jeorg is so ignorant, he only knows of Google's app)...

There are two fundamental ways to send those charge-for-MMS for free:
a. Use the same type of system Apple Messages uses (e.g., WhatsApp)
b. Use the same type of system Google Messags uses (i.e., RCS)

The problem is not on the Android side.
*The problem is on the iOS side.*

All the problems are due to the primitive iOS Messages not supporting even
the most basic of things (e.g., mere colors or reading RCS protocols).

Trust me that I use iOS messaging all the time and it's utter crap.
It's so primitive - it can't even set the color of a conversation.

WTF? *Why do iOS users put up with such primitive software?*(

I've tested _all_ the free messaging systems out there, and none are as
locked in primitive and non functional as the iOS messaging is, Carlos.

In summary, while I have no problem communicating with Android users, I
accept (and understand) that those who are billed for MMS messages would
prefer to use any of the half dozen free apps which support RCS.

Hence, the problem isn't Android.
It's iOS.

Specifically, the iOS platform is so primitive, it can't support common
modern interoperability standards that every other system easily supports.
--
What's new with Apple? Nothing. Apple is all marketing. And no engineering.

On 10. Dec 2023 at 13:22:31 CET, ""Carlos E. R."" <robin_listas@es.invalid>
wrote:

> Yes, they do, when they want to communicate with Android users and can
> not send photos or multimedia, unless they ditch iMessages and switch to
> WhatsApp.

Sorry, you are missing something:

Telegram, Signal, Threema for instance.

No WhatsApp over here and still happily communicating (and exchanging
pictures) with lots of Androids :-)

On 2023-12-10 14:29, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2023-12-10 07:22, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> On 2023-12-10 10:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>> On 09.12.23 22:21, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>>
>>>> So yes, we do have problems and we do complain.
>>>
>>> I think this is a fair statement. iPhone users do not complain.
>>
>> Yes, they do, when they want to communicate with Android users and can
>> not send photos or multimedia, unless they ditch iMessages and switch
>> to WhatsApp.
>
> Eh?  I send/receive photos and videos to/from people with Android phones
> all the time - using basic message service (cell phone).  Of course such
> is covered in data plans here as part of overall "data" so there are no
> ridiculous charges as one may see in Europe and elsewhere.

In Europe, and probably the entire world excep NA, iphone users can not
send photos to android users using imessage.

Two reasons: if MMS is available, it is expensive. And in several
countries or providers, MMS has been removed.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 2023-12-10 18:14, Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2023-12-10, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2023-12-10 10:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>> On 09.12.23 22:21, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>> On 2023-12-09 21:05, Wally J wrote:
>>>>> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not at all.  Apple's system is not a walled garden.  More like an
>>>>>>> exclusive country club where you get more but can also go
>>>>>>> anywhere off of the club you want.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The point is that *here* there are only 21% of iPhones, so those
>>>>>> users have to get out of their walled garden to talk with the
>>>>>> people, 80% of which are on Android. So, they don't use iMessages.
>>>>>
>>>>> Carlos brings up the valid points that most of the world is on
>>>>> Android, and most of the world seems to use WhatsApp (which is the
>>>>> same as iMessage anyway, in terms of needing to connect to a
>>>>> middleman mothership server).
>>>>>
>>>>> But even those on Android in the US have no problem communicating
>>>>> with iPhone users; it's always mainly the iPhone users who complain
>>>>> about it.
>>>>
>>>> That is not so.
>>>>
>>>> Android users have to communicate with iPhone users using third
>>>> party tools, like WhatsApp, thats not popular in the USA, or ancient
>>>> protocols like SMS, which lack features. Or use MMS, which in many
>>>> countries it is expensive, or is being phased out.
>>>>
>>>> So yes, we do have problems and we do complain.
>>>
>>> I think this is a fair statement. iPhone users do not complain.
>>
>> Yes, they do, when they want to communicate with Android users and can
>> not send photos or multimedia
>
> No, they can send photos and multimedia.

Not in Europe, not probably in most of the world. Not using imessages.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 2023-12-11 09:19, Bernd Froehlich wrote:
> On 10. Dec 2023 at 13:22:31 CET, ""Carlos E. R."" <robin_listas@es.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> Yes, they do, when they want to communicate with Android users and can
>> not send photos or multimedia, unless they ditch iMessages and switch to
>> WhatsApp.
>
> Sorry, you are missing something:
>
> Telegram, Signal, Threema for instance.

Certainly, but we are talking of their native messaging tool that they
are so happy about, imessages.

As I said, two reasons: in Europe, and probably most of the world except
NA, MMS which is used to send photos to non Apple users is expensive or
has been removed, it is not even available.

>
> No WhatsApp over here and still happily communicating (and exchanging
> pictures) with lots of Androids :-)

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 2023-12-10 16:20, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>> On 2023-12-09 14:56, Frank Slootweg wrote:

> BTW, in our country (NL) we have a payment system ('Tikkie', nudge)
> which works with WhatsApp (and other messaging systems), so the
> integration is there, but generic, instead of IM platform specific.

Yeah, we just need (to agree on a) a system that is EU wide.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 2023-12-10 14:20, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2023-12-09 23:44, Andrew wrote:
>> Your Name wrote on Sun, 10 Dec 2023 11:50:20 +1300 :
>>
>>> so it may not work for long before being blocked again.
>>
>> The last thing Apple wants is iOS to communicate effectively with
>> Android.
>
> iOS already communicates effectively with Android:
>
> -phone (cell network)
> -e-mail
> -SMS
> -MMS

Not in Europe, probably not in most of the world. I only known about NA
using MMS.

> -AirTag detection (malicious intent prevention).
>
> and next year
> -RCS
>
>

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 2023-12-10 16:27, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>> badgolferman wrote:
>>
>>> I don't hear iOS users wanting Apple to open up iMessage so Android
>>> users can be integrated into their conversations. I hear Android users
>>> creating all sort of apps and workarounds to integrate into iMessage.
>
> FTR, Android *users* do no such thing. In this case it's an app
> *developper* which tries "to integrate into iMessage".

Right.

>
>> I can send SMS (and if justified) MMS messages to people with iPhones, I
>> neither know or care what application they view them in, or what colour
>> bubble I get. If in a few months I can also send them RCS messages, all
>> the better.
>
> Exactly. And as you indicate, the whole 'bubble colour' (non-)argument
> is mindblowingly stupid. Who *cares* what colour *'our'* messages are on
> *'their'* screens!? Have I ever been worried about what kind of colours
> you use in Thunderbird? I don't think so!

It is apparently a thing with "kids" in USA.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 2023-12-11 03:19, Bernd Froehlich wrote:
> On 10. Dec 2023 at 13:22:31 CET, ""Carlos E. R."" <robin_listas@es.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> Yes, they do, when they want to communicate with Android users and can
>> not send photos or multimedia, unless they ditch iMessages and switch to
>> WhatsApp.
>
> Sorry, you are missing something:
>
> Telegram, Signal, Threema for instance.
>
> No WhatsApp over here and still happily communicating (and exchanging
> pictures) with lots of Androids :-)

That's not what's being discussed. What is: is how iPhone Messages
users can send phots/vids to Android users.

They can. And do.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 2023-12-11 06:23, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2023-12-10 14:29, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2023-12-10 07:22, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>> On 2023-12-10 10:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>> On 09.12.23 22:21, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> So yes, we do have problems and we do complain.
>>>>
>>>> I think this is a fair statement. iPhone users do not complain.
>>>
>>> Yes, they do, when they want to communicate with Android users and
>>> can not send photos or multimedia, unless they ditch iMessages and
>>> switch to WhatsApp.
>>
>> Eh?  I send/receive photos and videos to/from people with Android
>> phones all the time - using basic message service (cell phone).  Of
>> course such is covered in data plans here as part of overall "data" so
>> there are no ridiculous charges as one may see in Europe and elsewhere.
[AAA]____________
>
> In Europe, and probably the entire world excep NA, iphone users can not
> send photos to android users using imessage.
>
> Two reasons: if MMS is available, it is expensive. And in several
> countries or providers, MMS has been removed.

Well, can't help that, and yes I noted the ridiculous charges. [AAA]

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote

>> Eh?� I send/receive photos and videos to/from people with Android phones
>> all the time - using basic message service (cell phone).� Of course such
>> is covered in data plans here as part of overall "data" so there are no
>> ridiculous charges as one may see in Europe and elsewhere.
>
> In Europe, and probably the entire world excep NA, iphone users can not
> send photos to android users using imessage.
>
> Two reasons: if MMS is available, it is expensive. And in several
> countries or providers, MMS has been removed.

Sensible logic...

a. Free or not-free MMS is a carrier problem, and not Android, per se.

b. Android has a half-dozen modern free RCS-enabled apps to send MMS free.

c. It's iOS' problem that it is too primitive to _receive_ modern RCS.

Only iOS has the problem. As always. iOS is primitive. A closed system.

On 2023-12-11 15:15, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2023-12-11 03:19, Bernd Froehlich wrote:
>> On 10. Dec 2023 at 13:22:31 CET, ""Carlos E. R.""
>> <robin_listas@es.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, they do, when they want to communicate with Android users and can
>>> not send photos or multimedia, unless they ditch iMessages and switch to
>>> WhatsApp.
>>
>> Sorry, you are missing something:
>>
>> Telegram, Signal, Threema for instance.
>>
>> No WhatsApp over here and still happily communicating (and exchanging
>> pictures) with lots of Androids :-)
>
> That's not what's being discussed.  What is: is how iPhone Messages
> users can send phots/vids to Android users.
>
> They can.  And do.

With WhatsApp, yes, certainly they can. With imessages, no, not here.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

Bernd Froehlich <befr@eaglesoft.de> wrote

>> Yes, they do, when they want to communicate with Android users and can
>> not send photos or multimedia, unless they ditch iMessages and switch to
>> WhatsApp.
>
> Sorry, you are missing something:
>
> Telegram, Signal, Threema for instance.
>
> No WhatsApp over here and still happily communicating (and exchanging
> pictures) with lots of Androids :-)

Bernd,

I'm trying to understand the problem (as I don't have it in the states).

*The main problem appears to be a carrier-imposed fee on 'sending MMS'*
*The other problem appears to be iOS uses a primitive messaging system.*
(Substituted "closed" if you have a visceral dislike to "primitive".)

One part of the problem appears to be...
1. Android users who are charged those fees can send MMS via RCS for free.
2. But iOS users can't receive them (it appears).
3. So in that respect, the problem is on the iOS recipient's side.

Another part of the problem appears to be...
A. Android users who are charged those fees can send MMS via RCS for free.
B. But Android users can't receive them unless they use an RCS messenger.
C. So in that respect, the problem is on the Android recipient's side.

Meanwhile... the third part of the problem appears to be...
a. iOS users can send "things" (e.g., pictures) via their Internet app
b. Which is no different than Telegram, Signal, Threema or WhatsApp
c. The only difference being all iPhones have that proprietary messaging

Is this an accurate summary of the problem set yet?

On 2023-12-11 09:38, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2023-12-11 15:15, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2023-12-11 03:19, Bernd Froehlich wrote:
>>> On 10. Dec 2023 at 13:22:31 CET, ""Carlos E. R.""
>>> <robin_listas@es.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yes, they do, when they want to communicate with Android users and can
>>>> not send photos or multimedia, unless they ditch iMessages and
>>>> switch to
>>>> WhatsApp.
>>>
>>> Sorry, you are missing something:
>>>
>>> Telegram, Signal, Threema for instance.
>>>
>>> No WhatsApp over here and still happily communicating (and exchanging
>>> pictures) with lots of Androids :-)
>>
>> That's not what's being discussed.  What is: is how iPhone Messages
>> users can send phots/vids to Android users.
>>
>> They can.  And do.
>
> With WhatsApp, yes, certainly they can. With imessages, no, not here.

Yes - you've made the point a thousand times now.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote

>>> Yes, they do, when they want to communicate with Android users and can
>>> not send photos or multimedia, unless they ditch iMessages and switch to
>>> WhatsApp.
>>
>> Sorry, you are missing something:
>>
>> Telegram, Signal, Threema for instance.
>>
>> No WhatsApp over here and still happily communicating (and exchanging
>> pictures) with lots of Androids :-)
>
> That's not what's being discussed. What is: is how iPhone Messages
> users can send phots/vids to Android users.
>
> They can. And do.

While Alan Browne is correct, what he's completely clueless of is that the
iPhone Messages app is no different in form or function than those Bernd
noted.

Same thing.

The _only_ difference is Messages is on all iPhones, while Telegram,
Signal, THreema or WhatsApp are not.

No other difference than that as iOS uses primitive messaging.
*iOS Messages === WhatsApp*

Same thing in how it works and in the fact they're all proprietary.