In my quest to ensure I have the best quality equipment on all my rides, I've been made aware that I should really invest in special Campagnolo non-stretch shifting cables for optimal shifting performance. I've searched in vain on the web for anything marketed as such and was not even aware that campy realized this was an issue that needed addressing. Would anyone have any links for such a product? or have I been misled?

https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/hE70fWkwt6E/m/LGCH-_r_AAAJ

On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 11:45:23 AM UTC+1, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> In my quest to ensure I have the best quality equipment on all my rides, I've been made aware that I should really invest in special Campagnolo non-stretch shifting cables for optimal shifting performance. I've searched in vain on the web for anything marketed as such and was not even aware that campy realized this was an issue that needed addressing. Would anyone have any links for such a product? or have I been misled?
>
> https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/hE70fWkwt6E/m/LGCH-_r_AAAJ

As a long time Campagnolo user I can only remember that Campagnolo offers one cable set:

https://www.bike-components.de/en/Campagnolo/Ergopower-Ultra-Shift-Cable-Set-p20698/

Lou

On 2/3/2022 4:45 AM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> In my quest to ensure I have the best quality equipment on all my rides, I've been made aware that I should really invest in special Campagnolo non-stretch shifting cables for optimal shifting performance. I've searched in vain on the web for anything marketed as such and was not even aware that campy realized this was an issue that needed addressing. Would anyone have any links for such a product? or have I been misled?
>
> https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/hE70fWkwt6E/m/LGCH-_r_AAAJ
>

No such thing.
Campagnolo gear wires & casing sets are of high quality but
not higher quality than equivalent DuraAce or SRAM Red.
'Gear wires which do not stretch' is a marketing misnomer
and, at least sometimes, an effective spiel.

Gear (and brake) wires do not stretch by any definition.
Casings compress and end ferrules, gear stops etc 'settle
in' to various degrees (Throw out your plastic ferrules. Do
it today.)

NB- If you run Campagnolo Ergo levers, use only Campagnolo
gear wires with the traditional (small) heads. Later
revisions of Asian gear levers (all current systems) run a
larger head wire which will pop in and jam mercilessly in a
Campagnolo lever. You may, however run Campagnolo wires in
any system.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 5:42:54 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 2/3/2022 4:45 AM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > In my quest to ensure I have the best quality equipment on all my rides, I've been made aware that I should really invest in special Campagnolo non-stretch shifting cables for optimal shifting performance. I've searched in vain on the web for anything marketed as such and was not even aware that campy realized this was an issue that needed addressing. Would anyone have any links for such a product? or have I been misled?
> >
> > https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/hE70fWkwt6E/m/LGCH-_r_AAAJ
> >
> No such thing.
> Campagnolo gear wires & casing sets are of high quality but
> not higher quality than equivalent DuraAce or SRAM Red.
> 'Gear wires which do not stretch' is a marketing misnomer
> and, at least sometimes, an effective spiel.
>
> Gear (and brake) wires do not stretch by any definition.
> Casings compress and end ferrules, gear stops etc 'settle
> in' to various degrees (Throw out your plastic ferrules. Do
> it today.)
>
> NB- If you run Campagnolo Ergo levers, use only Campagnolo
> gear wires with the traditional (small) heads. Later
> revisions of Asian gear levers (all current systems) run a
> larger head wire which will pop in and jam mercilessly in a
> Campagnolo lever. You may, however run Campagnolo wires in
> any system.

I have to wonder about the comments about Campy outer cables always having been one set since the ones I have bought recently have different and smaller outer diameter. I also bought an unboxed set in a sealed plastic bag that were the older set with the normal diameters. While I certainly agree that inner stainless cables do not stretch, the result of bedding in of outer cables is effectively the same thing. Most of the campy stuff will no longer allow cable ends of any sort - plastic or metal and are inserted only with the cut cable ends. The rear derailleur cable that runs from the chain stay to the rear derailleur uses ends but the bedding process is so slight over that length that it has no effect that I've been able to detect. Most especially with the latest levers.

I just built up the Douglas aluminum bike using my older 10 speed Records levers and the newer cables and not only do they shift far easier (not that that is much) but with the new style cables they shift accurately and do not change shifting over time. As everything settled in on the first ride, I had to take one full turn on the rear derailleur adjustment and there were no further problems which was rather different than my experience with the previous larger diameter cables.

Or we can listen to typical loud noises issued from the oh so intellectual brain of flunky that there ain't no such thing.

On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 10:02:32 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 5:42:54 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 2/3/2022 4:45 AM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > In my quest to ensure I have the best quality equipment on all my rides, I've been made aware that I should really invest in special Campagnolo non-stretch shifting cables for optimal shifting performance. I've searched in vain on the web for anything marketed as such and was not even aware that campy realized this was an issue that needed addressing. Would anyone have any links for such a product? or have I been misled?
> > >
> > > https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/hE70fWkwt6E/m/LGCH-_r_AAAJ
> > >
> > No such thing.
> > Campagnolo gear wires & casing sets are of high quality but
> > not higher quality than equivalent DuraAce or SRAM Red.
> > 'Gear wires which do not stretch' is a marketing misnomer
> > and, at least sometimes, an effective spiel.
> >
> > Gear (and brake) wires do not stretch by any definition.
> > Casings compress and end ferrules, gear stops etc 'settle
> > in' to various degrees (Throw out your plastic ferrules. Do
> > it today.)
> >
> > NB- If you run Campagnolo Ergo levers, use only Campagnolo
> > gear wires with the traditional (small) heads. Later
> > revisions of Asian gear levers (all current systems) run a
> > larger head wire which will pop in and jam mercilessly in a
> > Campagnolo lever. You may, however run Campagnolo wires in
> > any system.
> I have to wonder about the comments about Campy outer cables always having been one set since the ones I have bought recently have different and smaller outer diameter. I also bought an unboxed set in a sealed plastic bag that were the older set with the normal diameters. While I certainly agree that inner stainless cables do not stretch, the result of bedding in of outer cables is effectively the same thing. Most of the campy stuff will no longer allow cable ends of any sort - plastic or metal and are inserted only with the cut cable ends. The rear derailleur cable that runs from the chain stay to the rear derailleur uses ends but the bedding process is so slight over that length that it has no effect that I've been able to detect. Most especially with the latest levers.
>
> I just built up the Douglas aluminum bike using my older 10 speed Records levers and the newer cables and not only do they shift far easier (not that that is much) but with the new style cables they shift accurately and do not change shifting over time. As everything settled in on the first ride, I had to take one full turn on the rear derailleur adjustment and there were no further problems which was rather different than my experience with the previous larger diameter cables.
>
> Or we can listen to typical loud noises issued from the oh so intellectual brain of flunky that there ain't no such thing.

Or we can listen to typical loud noises issued from the oh so intellectual brain of sparky that thinks I wrote " no such thing".

Andrew wrote "no such thing", you braindead twat. I'll take his word over yours on any subject at any time, especially regarding cycling equipment/mechanical issues. If he says "no such thing", I'll take that as gospel. Shut the fuck up.

On 2/3/2022 9:02 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 5:42:54 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 2/3/2022 4:45 AM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> In my quest to ensure I have the best quality equipment on all my rides, I've been made aware that I should really invest in special Campagnolo non-stretch shifting cables for optimal shifting performance. I've searched in vain on the web for anything marketed as such and was not even aware that campy realized this was an issue that needed addressing. Would anyone have any links for such a product? or have I been misled?
>>>
>>> https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/hE70fWkwt6E/m/LGCH-_r_AAAJ
>>>
>> No such thing.
>> Campagnolo gear wires & casing sets are of high quality but
>> not higher quality than equivalent DuraAce or SRAM Red.
>> 'Gear wires which do not stretch' is a marketing misnomer
>> and, at least sometimes, an effective spiel.
>>
>> Gear (and brake) wires do not stretch by any definition.
>> Casings compress and end ferrules, gear stops etc 'settle
>> in' to various degrees (Throw out your plastic ferrules. Do
>> it today.)
>>
>> NB- If you run Campagnolo Ergo levers, use only Campagnolo
>> gear wires with the traditional (small) heads. Later
>> revisions of Asian gear levers (all current systems) run a
>> larger head wire which will pop in and jam mercilessly in a
>> Campagnolo lever. You may, however run Campagnolo wires in
>> any system.
>
> I have to wonder about the comments about Campy outer cables always having been one set since the ones I have bought recently have different and smaller outer diameter. I also bought an unboxed set in a sealed plastic bag that were the older set with the normal diameters. While I certainly agree that inner stainless cables do not stretch, the result of bedding in of outer cables is effectively the same thing. Most of the campy stuff will no longer allow cable ends of any sort - plastic or metal and are inserted only with the cut cable ends. The rear derailleur cable that runs from the chain stay to the rear derailleur uses ends but the bedding process is so slight over that length that it has no effect that I've been able to detect. Most especially with the latest levers.
>
> I just built up the Douglas aluminum bike using my older 10 speed Records levers and the newer cables and not only do they shift far easier (not that that is much) but with the new style cables they shift accurately and do not change shifting over time. As everything settled in on the first ride, I had to take one full turn on the rear derailleur adjustment and there were no further problems which was rather different than my experience with the previous larger diameter cables.
>
> Or we can listen to typical loud noises issued from the oh so intellectual brain of flunky that there ain't no such thing.
>

Earlier versions used 5mm gear casings. The current set is
4mm. Just like every other premium brand.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 7:27:42 AM UTC-8, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 10:02:32 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 5:42:54 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> > > On 2/3/2022 4:45 AM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > > In my quest to ensure I have the best quality equipment on all my rides, I've been made aware that I should really invest in special Campagnolo non-stretch shifting cables for optimal shifting performance. I've searched in vain on the web for anything marketed as such and was not even aware that campy realized this was an issue that needed addressing. Would anyone have any links for such a product? or have I been misled?
> > > >
> > > > https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/hE70fWkwt6E/m/LGCH-_r_AAAJ
> > > >
> > > No such thing.
> > > Campagnolo gear wires & casing sets are of high quality but
> > > not higher quality than equivalent DuraAce or SRAM Red.
> > > 'Gear wires which do not stretch' is a marketing misnomer
> > > and, at least sometimes, an effective spiel.
> > >
> > > Gear (and brake) wires do not stretch by any definition.
> > > Casings compress and end ferrules, gear stops etc 'settle
> > > in' to various degrees (Throw out your plastic ferrules. Do
> > > it today.)
> > >
> > > NB- If you run Campagnolo Ergo levers, use only Campagnolo
> > > gear wires with the traditional (small) heads. Later
> > > revisions of Asian gear levers (all current systems) run a
> > > larger head wire which will pop in and jam mercilessly in a
> > > Campagnolo lever. You may, however run Campagnolo wires in
> > > any system.
> > I have to wonder about the comments about Campy outer cables always having been one set since the ones I have bought recently have different and smaller outer diameter. I also bought an unboxed set in a sealed plastic bag that were the older set with the normal diameters. While I certainly agree that inner stainless cables do not stretch, the result of bedding in of outer cables is effectively the same thing. Most of the campy stuff will no longer allow cable ends of any sort - plastic or metal and are inserted only with the cut cable ends. The rear derailleur cable that runs from the chain stay to the rear derailleur uses ends but the bedding process is so slight over that length that it has no effect that I've been able to detect. Most especially with the latest levers.
> >
> > I just built up the Douglas aluminum bike using my older 10 speed Records levers and the newer cables and not only do they shift far easier (not that that is much) but with the new style cables they shift accurately and do not change shifting over time. As everything settled in on the first ride, I had to take one full turn on the rear derailleur adjustment and there were no further problems which was rather different than my experience with the previous larger diameter cables.
> >
> > Or we can listen to typical loud noises issued from the oh so intellectual brain of flunky that there ain't no such thing.
> Or we can listen to typical loud noises issued from the oh so intellectual brain of sparky that thinks I wrote " no such thing".
>
> Andrew wrote "no such thing", you braindead twat. I'll take his word over yours on any subject at any time, especially regarding cycling equipment/mechanical issues. If he says "no such thing", I'll take that as gospel. Shut the fuck up.
I'd like to know what you do for a living? probably nothing and that is why you are so profoundly combative. You haven't any means of support. Or is Mommy paying your way?

On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 10:35:51 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 7:27:42 AM UTC-8, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 10:02:32 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 5:42:54 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > On 2/3/2022 4:45 AM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > > > In my quest to ensure I have the best quality equipment on all my rides, I've been made aware that I should really invest in special Campagnolo non-stretch shifting cables for optimal shifting performance. I've searched in vain on the web for anything marketed as such and was not even aware that campy realized this was an issue that needed addressing. Would anyone have any links for such a product? or have I been misled?
> > > > >
> > > > > https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/hE70fWkwt6E/m/LGCH-_r_AAAJ
> > > > >
> > > > No such thing.
> > > > Campagnolo gear wires & casing sets are of high quality but
> > > > not higher quality than equivalent DuraAce or SRAM Red.
> > > > 'Gear wires which do not stretch' is a marketing misnomer
> > > > and, at least sometimes, an effective spiel.
> > > >
> > > > Gear (and brake) wires do not stretch by any definition.
> > > > Casings compress and end ferrules, gear stops etc 'settle
> > > > in' to various degrees (Throw out your plastic ferrules. Do
> > > > it today.)
> > > >
> > > > NB- If you run Campagnolo Ergo levers, use only Campagnolo
> > > > gear wires with the traditional (small) heads. Later
> > > > revisions of Asian gear levers (all current systems) run a
> > > > larger head wire which will pop in and jam mercilessly in a
> > > > Campagnolo lever. You may, however run Campagnolo wires in
> > > > any system.
> > > I have to wonder about the comments about Campy outer cables always having been one set since the ones I have bought recently have different and smaller outer diameter. I also bought an unboxed set in a sealed plastic bag that were the older set with the normal diameters. While I certainly agree that inner stainless cables do not stretch, the result of bedding in of outer cables is effectively the same thing. Most of the campy stuff will no longer allow cable ends of any sort - plastic or metal and are inserted only with the cut cable ends. The rear derailleur cable that runs from the chain stay to the rear derailleur uses ends but the bedding process is so slight over that length that it has no effect that I've been able to detect. Most especially with the latest levers.
> > >
> > > I just built up the Douglas aluminum bike using my older 10 speed Records levers and the newer cables and not only do they shift far easier (not that that is much) but with the new style cables they shift accurately and do not change shifting over time. As everything settled in on the first ride, I had to take one full turn on the rear derailleur adjustment and there were no further problems which was rather different than my experience with the previous larger diameter cables.
> > >
> > > Or we can listen to typical loud noises issued from the oh so intellectual brain of flunky that there ain't no such thing.
> > Or we can listen to typical loud noises issued from the oh so intellectual brain of sparky that thinks I wrote " no such thing".
> >
> > Andrew wrote "no such thing", you braindead twat. I'll take his word over yours on any subject at any time, especially regarding cycling equipment/mechanical issues. If he says "no such thing", I'll take that as gospel. Shut the fuck up.
> I'd like to know what you do for a living? probably nothing and that is why you are so profoundly combative. You haven't any means of support. Or is Mommy paying your way?

Funny coming from a high-school dropout living on social security in his mothers house.

Andrew says there is no such thing as "campy non-stretch cables". Live with it.

oh, and Shut the fuck up.

On 2/3/2022 10:35 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>
> I'd like to know what you do for a living? probably nothing and that is why you are so profoundly combative. You haven't any means of support. Or is Mommy paying your way?

Wow! Talk about industrial strength irony!

:-)

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 8:50:21 PM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Feb 2022 02:45:20 -0800 (PST), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
> <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >In my quest to ensure I have the best quality equipment on all my rides, I've been made aware that I should really invest in special Campagnolo non-stretch shifting cables for optimal shifting performance. I've searched in vain on the web for anything marketed as such and was not even aware that campy realized this was an issue that needed addressing. Would anyone have any links for such a product? or have I been misled?
> >
> >https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/hE70fWkwt6E/m/LGCH-_r_AAAJ
> Yes, you've been misled, but so have Tom and others. The problem is
> that "cable stretch" is a rather poor name for slipping cable end
> clamps, ferrules, jackets and adjustment hardware. What's happening
> is the derailleur or brake clamps are too loose and slip, the aluminum
> cable end is becoming deformed, or the cable housing isn't fully
> seated. These appear to the casual observer as cable stretching.
>
> YouTube videos with additional misled victims of "cable stretch":
>
> "Do Bike Cables Stretch: Fact or Myth - stretching & wear"
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Cc7xQ2NHvg>
> This one is interesting as the author blames "micro breaks" in the
> outer jacket.
>
> "Fix Cable Stretch on your new bike"
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep5-Z5vIw-o>
>
> "Cable stretch myth and how to prevent poor shifting"
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Nb5qLMvbU>
>
> Note that chain stretch has a similar naming problem. The chain
> components will wear, but do not stretch.
>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
> PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

‘Cable stretch’ is sloppy installation.

Lou

On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 2:50:21 PM UTC-5, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Feb 2022 02:45:20 -0800 (PST), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
> <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >In my quest to ensure I have the best quality equipment on all my rides, I've been made aware that I should really invest in special Campagnolo non-stretch shifting cables for optimal shifting performance. I've searched in vain on the web for anything marketed as such and was not even aware that campy realized this was an issue that needed addressing. Would anyone have any links for such a product? or have I been misled?
> >
> >https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/hE70fWkwt6E/m/LGCH-_r_AAAJ
>
> Yes, you've been misled,

Not really. This thread was a sarcastic response to tommys claim:
"chain skipping on the Campy 10 speeds is a common problem until Campy started building special non-stretch cables."

to which I responded
"haha...right, Campy had to build "special non-stretch cables", let me guess, that was after you called Tullio Campagnolo and told him to redesign it, right? Wow...this one's getting it's own thread - idiot "

here:
https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/hE70fWkwt6E/m/3BJX6IcrAQAJ

I knew the only way to drill the point though his thick skull that "special non-stretch cables" don't exist was to create a dedicated thread. I was confident that people with a great level of expertise whom tom respects would weigh in and confirm my point. However, as can be seen above, tommy's level of reading comprehension is so bad that he ascribed Andrews' comment of "no such thing" to me.

I appreciate all you've written below, and it's common knowledge to any reasonably inclined bike mechanic - which explains why tommy got it wrong and had to imagine something like he had to buy "special non-stretch cables" to cover his mistake.

> but so have Tom and others. The problem is
> that "cable stretch" is a rather poor name for slipping cable end
> clamps, ferrules, jackets and adjustment hardware. What's happening
> is the derailleur or brake clamps are too loose and slip, the aluminum
> cable end is becoming deformed, or the cable housing isn't fully
> seated. These appear to the casual observer as cable stretching.
>
> YouTube videos with additional misled victims of "cable stretch":
>
> "Do Bike Cables Stretch: Fact or Myth - stretching & wear"
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Cc7xQ2NHvg>
> This one is interesting as the author blames "micro breaks" in the
> outer jacket.
>
> "Fix Cable Stretch on your new bike"
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep5-Z5vIw-o>
>
> "Cable stretch myth and how to prevent poor shifting"
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Nb5qLMvbU>
>
> Note that chain stretch has a similar naming problem. The chain
> components will wear, but do not stretch.
>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
> PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 2:57:54 PM UTC-5, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 8:50:21 PM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thu, 3 Feb 2022 02:45:20 -0800 (PST), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
> > <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >In my quest to ensure I have the best quality equipment on all my rides, I've been made aware that I should really invest in special Campagnolo non-stretch shifting cables for optimal shifting performance. I've searched in vain on the web for anything marketed as such and was not even aware that campy realized this was an issue that needed addressing. Would anyone have any links for such a product? or have I been misled?
> > >
> > >https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/hE70fWkwt6E/m/LGCH-_r_AAAJ
> > Yes, you've been misled, but so have Tom and others. The problem is
> > that "cable stretch" is a rather poor name for slipping cable end
> > clamps, ferrules, jackets and adjustment hardware. What's happening
> > is the derailleur or brake clamps are too loose and slip, the aluminum
> > cable end is becoming deformed, or the cable housing isn't fully
> > seated. These appear to the casual observer as cable stretching.
> >
> > YouTube videos with additional misled victims of "cable stretch":
> >
> > "Do Bike Cables Stretch: Fact or Myth - stretching & wear"
> > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Cc7xQ2NHvg>
> > This one is interesting as the author blames "micro breaks" in the
> > outer jacket.
> >
> > "Fix Cable Stretch on your new bike"
> > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep5-Z5vIw-o>
> >
> > "Cable stretch myth and how to prevent poor shifting"
> > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Nb5qLMvbU>
> >
> > Note that chain stretch has a similar naming problem. The chain
> > components will wear, but do not stretch.
> >
> > --
> > Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
> > PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> > Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
> > Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
>
> ‘Cable stretch’ is sloppy installation.
>

+1

On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 11:50:21 AM UTC-8, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Feb 2022 02:45:20 -0800 (PST), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
> <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >In my quest to ensure I have the best quality equipment on all my rides, I've been made aware that I should really invest in special Campagnolo non-stretch shifting cables for optimal shifting performance. I've searched in vain on the web for anything marketed as such and was not even aware that campy realized this was an issue that needed addressing. Would anyone have any links for such a product? or have I been misled?
> >
> >https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/hE70fWkwt6E/m/LGCH-_r_AAAJ
> Yes, you've been misled, but so have Tom and others. The problem is
> that "cable stretch" is a rather poor name for slipping cable end
> clamps, ferrules, jackets and adjustment hardware. What's happening
> is the derailleur or brake clamps are too loose and slip, the aluminum
> cable end is becoming deformed, or the cable housing isn't fully
> seated. These appear to the casual observer as cable stretching.
>
> YouTube videos with additional misled victims of "cable stretch":
>
> "Do Bike Cables Stretch: Fact or Myth - stretching & wear"
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Cc7xQ2NHvg>
> This one is interesting as the author blames "micro breaks" in the
> outer jacket.
>
> "Fix Cable Stretch on your new bike"
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep5-Z5vIw-o>
>
> "Cable stretch myth and how to prevent poor shifting"
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Nb5qLMvbU>
>
> Note that chain stretch has a similar naming problem. The chain
> components will wear, but do not stretch.

Jeff, why do you talk about things you don't understand and pretend to be an expert at it?

On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 9:37:38 PM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Feb 2022 11:57:52 -0800 (PST), Lou Holtman
> <lou.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 8:50:21 PM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Thu, 3 Feb 2022 02:45:20 -0800 (PST), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
> >> <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >In my quest to ensure I have the best quality equipment on all my rides, I've been made aware that I should really invest in special Campagnolo non-stretch shifting cables for optimal shifting performance. I've searched in vain on the web for anything marketed as such and was not even aware that campy realized this was an issue that needed addressing. Would anyone have any links for such a product? or have I been misled?
> >> >
> >> >https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/hE70fWkwt6E/m/LGCH-_r_AAAJ
> >> Yes, you've been misled, but so have Tom and others. The problem is
> >> that "cable stretch" is a rather poor name for slipping cable end
> >> clamps, ferrules, jackets and adjustment hardware. What's happening
> >> is the derailleur or brake clamps are too loose and slip, the aluminum
> >> cable end is becoming deformed, or the cable housing isn't fully
> >> seated. These appear to the casual observer as cable stretching.
> >>
> >> YouTube videos with additional misled victims of "cable stretch":
> >>
> >> "Do Bike Cables Stretch: Fact or Myth - stretching & wear"
> >> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Cc7xQ2NHvg>
> >> This one is interesting as the author blames "micro breaks" in the
> >> outer jacket.
> >>
> >> "Fix Cable Stretch on your new bike"
> >> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep5-Z5vIw-o>
> >>
> >> "Cable stretch myth and how to prevent poor shifting"
> >> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Nb5qLMvbU>
> >>
> >> Note that chain stretch has a similar naming problem. The chain
> >> components will wear, but do not stretch.
> >‘Cable stretch’ is sloppy installation.
> >Lou
> Yes, but there are tools available that reduce "cable slop" during
> installation:
> <https://www.parktool.com/product/cable-stretcher-bt-2>
> Hmmm... I wonder why Park calls it a "cable stetcher"? Probably
> another misled victim.
>
> More:
> <https://pedros.com/products/cable-puller>
> <https://www.amazon.com/IceToolz-Fourth-Hand-Cable-Puller/dp/B0028N57KK>
> <https://www.amazon.com/Venzo-Bicycle-Professional-Shifter-Caliper/dp/B088627BDZ>
>
> I use locking pliers, but a proper tool would certainly be better.
> --
> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
> PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Those tools are awful to use. These are meant to initial tension the inner cable during installation so the chance that you run out of adjustment of your barrel during adjustment of the rear or front derailleur. Proper installation is taking care of your casings during installation. Make sure that they are properly seated against their stops. So cut/file/grind them square without the plastic coating interfere, make sure the ferrules are seated properly and the ferrules are seated properly against the stop. Before doing the final adjustment try to shift while holding the derailleur with your hand so you put the housing in compression so everything gets seated properly.. Do that a couple of times and then final adjust. I never have to readjust my RD after that procedure.

Lou

On 2/3/2022 3:37 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Feb 2022 11:57:52 -0800 (PST), Lou Holtman
> <lou.holtman@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 8:50:21 PM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Thu, 3 Feb 2022 02:45:20 -0800 (PST), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
>>> <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In my quest to ensure I have the best quality equipment on all my rides, I've been made aware that I should really invest in special Campagnolo non-stretch shifting cables for optimal shifting performance. I've searched in vain on the web for anything marketed as such and was not even aware that campy realized this was an issue that needed addressing. Would anyone have any links for such a product? or have I been misled?
>>>>
>>>> https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/hE70fWkwt6E/m/LGCH-_r_AAAJ
>>> Yes, you've been misled, but so have Tom and others. The problem is
>>> that "cable stretch" is a rather poor name for slipping cable end
>>> clamps, ferrules, jackets and adjustment hardware. What's happening
>>> is the derailleur or brake clamps are too loose and slip, the aluminum
>>> cable end is becoming deformed, or the cable housing isn't fully
>>> seated. These appear to the casual observer as cable stretching.
>>>
>>> YouTube videos with additional misled victims of "cable stretch":
>>>
>>> "Do Bike Cables Stretch: Fact or Myth - stretching & wear"
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Cc7xQ2NHvg>
>>> This one is interesting as the author blames "micro breaks" in the
>>> outer jacket.
>>>
>>> "Fix Cable Stretch on your new bike"
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep5-Z5vIw-o>
>>>
>>> "Cable stretch myth and how to prevent poor shifting"
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Nb5qLMvbU>
>>>
>>> Note that chain stretch has a similar naming problem. The chain
>>> components will wear, but do not stretch.
>
>> ‘Cable stretch’ is sloppy installation.
>> Lou
>
> Yes, but there are tools available that reduce "cable slop" during
> installation:
> <https://www.parktool.com/product/cable-stretcher-bt-2>
> Hmmm... I wonder why Park calls it a "cable stetcher"? Probably
> another misled victim.
>
> More:
> <https://pedros.com/products/cable-puller>
> <https://www.amazon.com/IceToolz-Fourth-Hand-Cable-Puller/dp/B0028N57KK>
> <https://www.amazon.com/Venzo-Bicycle-Professional-Shifter-Caliper/dp/B088627BDZ>
>
> I use locking pliers, but a proper tool would certainly be better.

A friend introduced me to that tool back in the 1980s. Yes, it's better,
and if I did as many cables as a professional bike mechanic I'd use one.
But for the couple times per year I fuss with cables it's not worth the
bother of buying it and storing it. (My bike tools drawer is rather
small and overstuffed.)

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 11:57:54 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
>
> ‘Cable stretch’ is sloppy installation.

As Andrew says, it is mis-seating of the outside cable. The inside cable cannot stretch and Jeff's idea of loose cable locks would simply allow a cable to pull loose. The new style smaller and more ridged Campy outers (and Andrew says that the top end Shimano and SRAM have copied it) fits into most of the cable ends without using metal or plastic cable ends and so cannot "seat" except for the rear derailleur hook outer.

So you'd have to sloppy to the levels of incompetence to have problems with the new style cables. Now the old style cables that were mostly made in China and most bike shops were carrying were another story. For the brake cables the spiral liner had a lot of space between the metal liner and it would make the brakes soft. The shift cable outers had too much room in the inside diameter and the individual wires would move around and push down making pretty much the same thing. The Campy cables are not only smaller in diameter but also has a plastic inner tube that takes up any extra space so that you don't have the same problems at all.

On 2/3/2022 2:37 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Feb 2022 11:57:52 -0800 (PST), Lou Holtman
> <lou.holtman@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 8:50:21 PM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Thu, 3 Feb 2022 02:45:20 -0800 (PST), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
>>> <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In my quest to ensure I have the best quality equipment on all my rides, I've been made aware that I should really invest in special Campagnolo non-stretch shifting cables for optimal shifting performance. I've searched in vain on the web for anything marketed as such and was not even aware that campy realized this was an issue that needed addressing. Would anyone have any links for such a product? or have I been misled?
>>>>
>>>> https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/hE70fWkwt6E/m/LGCH-_r_AAAJ
>>> Yes, you've been misled, but so have Tom and others. The problem is
>>> that "cable stretch" is a rather poor name for slipping cable end
>>> clamps, ferrules, jackets and adjustment hardware. What's happening
>>> is the derailleur or brake clamps are too loose and slip, the aluminum
>>> cable end is becoming deformed, or the cable housing isn't fully
>>> seated. These appear to the casual observer as cable stretching.
>>>
>>> YouTube videos with additional misled victims of "cable stretch":
>>>
>>> "Do Bike Cables Stretch: Fact or Myth - stretching & wear"
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Cc7xQ2NHvg>
>>> This one is interesting as the author blames "micro breaks" in the
>>> outer jacket.
>>>
>>> "Fix Cable Stretch on your new bike"
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep5-Z5vIw-o>
>>>
>>> "Cable stretch myth and how to prevent poor shifting"
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Nb5qLMvbU>
>>>
>>> Note that chain stretch has a similar naming problem. The chain
>>> components will wear, but do not stretch.
>
>> ‘Cable stretch’ is sloppy installation.
>> Lou
>
> Yes, but there are tools available that reduce "cable slop" during
> installation:
> <https://www.parktool.com/product/cable-stretcher-bt-2>
> Hmmm... I wonder why Park calls it a "cable stetcher"? Probably
> another misled victim.
>
> More:
> <https://pedros.com/products/cable-puller>
> <https://www.amazon.com/IceToolz-Fourth-Hand-Cable-Puller/dp/B0028N57KK>
> <https://www.amazon.com/Venzo-Bicycle-Professional-Shifter-Caliper/dp/B088627BDZ>
>
> I use locking pliers, but a proper tool would certainly be better.
>
>
>

Park is in the business of selling tools so that's exactly
the terminology one might expect.

Taking up slack with a gizmo (when installing brake or gear
cable systems) may be helpful to the unskilled mechanic.
Nothing wrong with that and they're generally cheap. No
relation to that and the phenomenon called 'cable stretch'
by OP.

Let me be clear on one point. Steel bowden wire does not
stretch for any measurable value.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 2/3/2022 3:13 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 9:37:38 PM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Thu, 3 Feb 2022 11:57:52 -0800 (PST), Lou Holtman
>> <lou.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 8:50:21 PM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 3 Feb 2022 02:45:20 -0800 (PST), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
>>>> <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In my quest to ensure I have the best quality equipment on all my rides, I've been made aware that I should really invest in special Campagnolo non-stretch shifting cables for optimal shifting performance. I've searched in vain on the web for anything marketed as such and was not even aware that campy realized this was an issue that needed addressing. Would anyone have any links for such a product? or have I been misled?
>>>>>
>>>>> https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/hE70fWkwt6E/m/LGCH-_r_AAAJ
>>>> Yes, you've been misled, but so have Tom and others. The problem is
>>>> that "cable stretch" is a rather poor name for slipping cable end
>>>> clamps, ferrules, jackets and adjustment hardware. What's happening
>>>> is the derailleur or brake clamps are too loose and slip, the aluminum
>>>> cable end is becoming deformed, or the cable housing isn't fully
>>>> seated. These appear to the casual observer as cable stretching.
>>>>
>>>> YouTube videos with additional misled victims of "cable stretch":
>>>>
>>>> "Do Bike Cables Stretch: Fact or Myth - stretching & wear"
>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Cc7xQ2NHvg>
>>>> This one is interesting as the author blames "micro breaks" in the
>>>> outer jacket.
>>>>
>>>> "Fix Cable Stretch on your new bike"
>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep5-Z5vIw-o>
>>>>
>>>> "Cable stretch myth and how to prevent poor shifting"
>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Nb5qLMvbU>
>>>>
>>>> Note that chain stretch has a similar naming problem. The chain
>>>> components will wear, but do not stretch.
>>> ‘Cable stretch’ is sloppy installation.
>>> Lou
>> Yes, but there are tools available that reduce "cable slop" during
>> installation:
>> <https://www.parktool.com/product/cable-stretcher-bt-2>
>> Hmmm... I wonder why Park calls it a "cable stetcher"? Probably
>> another misled victim.
>>
>> More:
>> <https://pedros.com/products/cable-puller>
>> <https://www.amazon.com/IceToolz-Fourth-Hand-Cable-Puller/dp/B0028N57KK>
>> <https://www.amazon.com/Venzo-Bicycle-Professional-Shifter-Caliper/dp/B088627BDZ>
>>
>> I use locking pliers, but a proper tool would certainly be better.
>> --
>> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
>> PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
>> Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
>> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
>
> Those tools are awful to use. These are meant to initial tension the inner cable during installation so the chance that you run out of adjustment of your barrel during adjustment of the rear or front derailleur. Proper installation is taking care of your casings during installation. Make sure that they are properly seated against their stops. So cut/file/grind them square without the plastic coating interfere, make sure the ferrules are seated properly and the ferrules are seated properly against the stop. Before doing the final adjustment try to shift while holding the derailleur with your hand so you put the housing in compression so everything gets seated properly. Do that a couple of times and then final adjust. I never have to readjust my RD after that procedure.
>
> Lou
>

+1
We build and ship race bikes which have to shift crisply out
of the box and stay that way. It's not magic, only rigor,
just as Lou describes.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 2/3/2022 3:38 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 2/3/2022 3:37 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> On Thu, 3 Feb 2022 11:57:52 -0800 (PST), Lou Holtman
>> <lou.holtman@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 8:50:21 PM UTC+1,
>>> jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 3 Feb 2022 02:45:20 -0800 (PST),
>>>> "funkma...@hotmail.com"
>>>> <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In my quest to ensure I have the best quality equipment
>>>>> on all my rides, I've been made aware that I should
>>>>> really invest in special Campagnolo non-stretch
>>>>> shifting cables for optimal shifting performance. I've
>>>>> searched in vain on the web for anything marketed as
>>>>> such and was not even aware that campy realized this
>>>>> was an issue that needed addressing. Would anyone have
>>>>> any links for such a product? or have I been misled?
>>>>>
>>>>> https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/hE70fWkwt6E/m/LGCH-_r_AAAJ
>>>>>
>>>> Yes, you've been misled, but so have Tom and others. The
>>>> problem is
>>>> that "cable stretch" is a rather poor name for slipping
>>>> cable end
>>>> clamps, ferrules, jackets and adjustment hardware.
>>>> What's happening
>>>> is the derailleur or brake clamps are too loose and
>>>> slip, the aluminum
>>>> cable end is becoming deformed, or the cable housing
>>>> isn't fully
>>>> seated. These appear to the casual observer as cable
>>>> stretching.
>>>>
>>>> YouTube videos with additional misled victims of "cable
>>>> stretch":
>>>>
>>>> "Do Bike Cables Stretch: Fact or Myth - stretching & wear"
>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Cc7xQ2NHvg>
>>>> This one is interesting as the author blames "micro
>>>> breaks" in the
>>>> outer jacket.
>>>>
>>>> "Fix Cable Stretch on your new bike"
>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep5-Z5vIw-o>
>>>>
>>>> "Cable stretch myth and how to prevent poor shifting"
>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Nb5qLMvbU>
>>>>
>>>> Note that chain stretch has a similar naming problem.
>>>> The chain
>>>> components will wear, but do not stretch.
>>
>>> ‘Cable stretch’ is sloppy installation.
>>> Lou
>>
>> Yes, but there are tools available that reduce "cable
>> slop" during
>> installation:
>> <https://www.parktool.com/product/cable-stretcher-bt-2>
>> Hmmm... I wonder why Park calls it a "cable stetcher"?
>> Probably
>> another misled victim.
>>
>> More:
>> <https://pedros.com/products/cable-puller>
>> <https://www.amazon.com/IceToolz-Fourth-Hand-Cable-Puller/dp/B0028N57KK>
>>
>> <https://www.amazon.com/Venzo-Bicycle-Professional-Shifter-Caliper/dp/B088627BDZ>
>>
>>
>> I use locking pliers, but a proper tool would certainly be
>> better.
>
> A friend introduced me to that tool back in the 1980s. Yes,
> it's better, and if I did as many cables as a professional
> bike mechanic I'd use one. But for the couple times per year
> I fuss with cables it's not worth the bother of buying it
> and storing it. (My bike tools drawer is rather small and
> overstuffed.)
>

I disagree.
If you were a professional mechanic you would not even
consider it.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thu, 3 Feb 2022 13:21:28 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 2/3/2022 10:35 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>
>> I'd like to know what you do for a living? probably nothing and that is why you are so profoundly combative. You haven't any means of support. Or is Mommy paying your way?
>
>
>Wow! Talk about industrial strength irony!
>
>:-)

Now Frank you just got to stop talking bad about Tommy. Your jealousy
is showing'

Just look at Tommy's accomplishments.

In the world of used bicycles,why just ask anybody about Tommy and
they'll tell you, "Don't buy from Tommy". I'll bet that nobody in the
used bicycle business even knows who you are.

Education? Well, I'm guessing here but you probably had to attend
school for some years, perhaps as many as 16 years, or maybe even
more. In comparison, Tommy, didn't even have to finish 12.

Wealth? Well Tommy apparently paid something like $50,000 for the
house he lives in. Did you pay $50,000 for your place? I'll bet you
didn't.

And Jobs? Why, Tommy has had a whole slew of jobs and you? Well, again
guessing. What? 4 or 5, in your whole life, counting your childhood
labors delivering newspapers

One of the worse shortcomings of growing old is that we will never, no
matter how hard we try, ever be able to emulate Tommy.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 4:13:41 p.m. UTC-5, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 9:37:38 PM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thu, 3 Feb 2022 11:57:52 -0800 (PST), Lou Holtman
> > <lou.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 8:50:21 PM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >> On Thu, 3 Feb 2022 02:45:20 -0800 (PST), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
> > >> <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> >In my quest to ensure I have the best quality equipment on all my rides, I've been made aware that I should really invest in special Campagnolo non-stretch shifting cables for optimal shifting performance. I've searched in vain on the web for anything marketed as such and was not even aware that campy realized this was an issue that needed addressing. Would anyone have any links for such a product? or have I been misled?
> > >> >
> > >> >https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/hE70fWkwt6E/m/LGCH-_r_AAAJ
> > >> Yes, you've been misled, but so have Tom and others. The problem is
> > >> that "cable stretch" is a rather poor name for slipping cable end
> > >> clamps, ferrules, jackets and adjustment hardware. What's happening
> > >> is the derailleur or brake clamps are too loose and slip, the aluminum
> > >> cable end is becoming deformed, or the cable housing isn't fully
> > >> seated. These appear to the casual observer as cable stretching.
> > >>
> > >> YouTube videos with additional misled victims of "cable stretch":
> > >>
> > >> "Do Bike Cables Stretch: Fact or Myth - stretching & wear"
> > >> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Cc7xQ2NHvg>
> > >> This one is interesting as the author blames "micro breaks" in the
> > >> outer jacket.
> > >>
> > >> "Fix Cable Stretch on your new bike"
> > >> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep5-Z5vIw-o>
> > >>
> > >> "Cable stretch myth and how to prevent poor shifting"
> > >> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Nb5qLMvbU>
> > >>
> > >> Note that chain stretch has a similar naming problem. The chain
> > >> components will wear, but do not stretch.
> > >‘Cable stretch’ is sloppy installation.
> > >Lou
> > Yes, but there are tools available that reduce "cable slop" during
> > installation:
> > <https://www.parktool.com/product/cable-stretcher-bt-2>
> > Hmmm... I wonder why Park calls it a "cable stetcher"? Probably
> > another misled victim.
> >
> > More:
> > <https://pedros.com/products/cable-puller>
> > <https://www.amazon.com/IceToolz-Fourth-Hand-Cable-Puller/dp/B0028N57KK>
> > <https://www.amazon.com/Venzo-Bicycle-Professional-Shifter-Caliper/dp/B088627BDZ>
> >
> > I use locking pliers, but a proper tool would certainly be better.
> > --
> > Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
> > PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> > Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
> > Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
> Those tools are awful to use. These are meant to initial tension the inner cable during installation so the chance that you run out of adjustment of your barrel during adjustment of the rear or front derailleur. Proper installation is taking care of your casings during installation. Make sure that they are properly seated against their stops. So cut/file/grind them square without the plastic coating interfere, make sure the ferrules are seated properly and the ferrules are seated properly against the stop. Before doing the final adjustment try to shift while holding the derailleur with your hand so you put the housing in compression so everything gets seated properly. Do that a couple of times and then final adjust. I never have to readjust my RD after that procedure.
>
> Lou

I do that with both my shifter cables and housings and also my brake cables and housings. I've had times when squeezing the brake lever hard after installing the brake cable and housing, resulted in the cable housing pulling through the metal ferrule. That's something I'd much rather happen on the workstand than on the road.

Cheers

On 2/3/2022 7:02 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
> On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 4:13:41 p.m. UTC-5, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 9:37:38 PM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Thu, 3 Feb 2022 11:57:52 -0800 (PST), Lou Holtman
>>> <lou.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 8:50:21 PM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 3 Feb 2022 02:45:20 -0800 (PST), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
>>>>> <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In my quest to ensure I have the best quality equipment on all my rides, I've been made aware that I should really invest in special Campagnolo non-stretch shifting cables for optimal shifting performance. I've searched in vain on the web for anything marketed as such and was not even aware that campy realized this was an issue that needed addressing. Would anyone have any links for such a product? or have I been misled?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/hE70fWkwt6E/m/LGCH-_r_AAAJ
>>>>> Yes, you've been misled, but so have Tom and others. The problem is
>>>>> that "cable stretch" is a rather poor name for slipping cable end
>>>>> clamps, ferrules, jackets and adjustment hardware. What's happening
>>>>> is the derailleur or brake clamps are too loose and slip, the aluminum
>>>>> cable end is becoming deformed, or the cable housing isn't fully
>>>>> seated. These appear to the casual observer as cable stretching.
>>>>>
>>>>> YouTube videos with additional misled victims of "cable stretch":
>>>>>
>>>>> "Do Bike Cables Stretch: Fact or Myth - stretching & wear"
>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Cc7xQ2NHvg>
>>>>> This one is interesting as the author blames "micro breaks" in the
>>>>> outer jacket.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Fix Cable Stretch on your new bike"
>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep5-Z5vIw-o>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Cable stretch myth and how to prevent poor shifting"
>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Nb5qLMvbU>
>>>>>
>>>>> Note that chain stretch has a similar naming problem. The chain
>>>>> components will wear, but do not stretch.
>>>> ‘Cable stretch’ is sloppy installation.
>>>> Lou
>>> Yes, but there are tools available that reduce "cable slop" during
>>> installation:
>>> <https://www.parktool.com/product/cable-stretcher-bt-2>
>>> Hmmm... I wonder why Park calls it a "cable stetcher"? Probably
>>> another misled victim.
>>>
>>> More:
>>> <https://pedros.com/products/cable-puller>
>>> <https://www.amazon.com/IceToolz-Fourth-Hand-Cable-Puller/dp/B0028N57KK>
>>> <https://www.amazon.com/Venzo-Bicycle-Professional-Shifter-Caliper/dp/B088627BDZ>
>>>
>>> I use locking pliers, but a proper tool would certainly be better.
>>> --
>>> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
>>> PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
>>> Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
>>> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
>> Those tools are awful to use. These are meant to initial tension the inner cable during installation so the chance that you run out of adjustment of your barrel during adjustment of the rear or front derailleur. Proper installation is taking care of your casings during installation. Make sure that they are properly seated against their stops. So cut/file/grind them square without the plastic coating interfere, make sure the ferrules are seated properly and the ferrules are seated properly against the stop. Before doing the final adjustment try to shift while holding the derailleur with your hand so you put the housing in compression so everything gets seated properly. Do that a couple of times and then final adjust. I never have to readjust my RD after that procedure.
>>
>> Lou
>
> I do that with both my shifter cables and housings and also my brake cables and housings. I've had times when squeezing the brake lever hard after installing the brake cable and housing, resulted in the cable housing pulling through the metal ferrule. That's something I'd much rather happen on the workstand than on the road.
>
> Cheers
>
+1

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thu, 03 Feb 2022 11:50:11 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Thu, 3 Feb 2022 02:45:20 -0800 (PST), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
><funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>In my quest to ensure I have the best quality equipment on all my rides, I've been made aware that I should really invest in special Campagnolo non-stretch shifting cables for optimal shifting performance. I've searched in vain on the web for anything marketed as such and was not even aware that campy realized this was an issue that needed addressing. Would anyone have any links for such a product? or have I been misled?
>>
>>https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/hE70fWkwt6E/m/LGCH-_r_AAAJ
>
>Yes, you've been misled, but so have Tom and others. The problem is
>that "cable stretch" is a rather poor name for slipping cable end
>clamps, ferrules, jackets and adjustment hardware. What's happening
>is the derailleur or brake clamps are too loose and slip, the aluminum
>cable end is becoming deformed, or the cable housing isn't fully
>seated. These appear to the casual observer as cable stretching.
>
>YouTube videos with additional misled victims of "cable stretch":
>
>"Do Bike Cables Stretch: Fact or Myth - stretching & wear"
><https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Cc7xQ2NHvg>
>This one is interesting as the author blames "micro breaks" in the
>outer jacket.
>
>"Fix Cable Stretch on your new bike"
><https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep5-Z5vIw-o>
>
>"Cable stretch myth and how to prevent poor shifting"
><https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Nb5qLMvbU>
>
>Note that chain stretch has a similar naming problem. The chain
>components will wear, but do not stretch.

Well, steel cables do stretch. In fact even a look on the New will
show yo that "yes, cables stretch" and cable companies even furnish
tables to calculate how much they stretch. One site
https://www.spaceagecontrol.com/calcstre.htm?MA%5B0%5D=1&MA%5B2%5D=60&MA%5B1%5D=0.0472&Submit=Calculate
tells us that a 1.2mm (Shimano Standard Zinc-coated Derailleur Cable
Shift Cable)
https://www.amazon.com/Shimano-Standard-Zinc-coated-Derailleur-1-2x2100-mm/dp/B00KXMEXOY/ref=sr_1_6?keywords=bike+shifter+cable&qid=1643935508&sr=8-6
2100mm (82")long will stretch 0.004" with a load of 1 lb. and .008"
with 2 lb.
If we shorten the cable to, say 1050mm (41") then the stretch is
0.002" and 0.004".
Note a human hair can be as large as .005" in diameter.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 2/3/2022 5:02 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 2/3/2022 3:38 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 2/3/2022 3:37 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>> On Thu, 3 Feb 2022 11:57:52 -0800 (PST), Lou Holtman
>>> <lou.holtman@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 8:50:21 PM UTC+1,
>>>> jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 3 Feb 2022 02:45:20 -0800 (PST),
>>>>> "funkma...@hotmail.com"
>>>>> <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In my quest to ensure I have the best quality equipment
>>>>>> on all my rides, I've been made aware that I should
>>>>>> really invest in special Campagnolo non-stretch
>>>>>> shifting cables for optimal shifting performance. I've
>>>>>> searched in vain on the web for anything marketed as
>>>>>> such and was not even aware that campy realized this
>>>>>> was an issue that needed addressing. Would anyone have
>>>>>> any links for such a product? or have I been misled?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/hE70fWkwt6E/m/LGCH-_r_AAAJ
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, you've been misled, but so have Tom and others. The
>>>>> problem is
>>>>> that "cable stretch" is a rather poor name for slipping
>>>>> cable end
>>>>> clamps, ferrules, jackets and adjustment hardware.
>>>>> What's happening
>>>>> is the derailleur or brake clamps are too loose and
>>>>> slip, the aluminum
>>>>> cable end is becoming deformed, or the cable housing
>>>>> isn't fully
>>>>> seated. These appear to the casual observer as cable
>>>>> stretching.
>>>>>
>>>>> YouTube videos with additional misled victims of "cable
>>>>> stretch":
>>>>>
>>>>> "Do Bike Cables Stretch: Fact or Myth - stretching & wear"
>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Cc7xQ2NHvg>
>>>>> This one is interesting as the author blames "micro
>>>>> breaks" in the
>>>>> outer jacket.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Fix Cable Stretch on your new bike"
>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep5-Z5vIw-o>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Cable stretch myth and how to prevent poor shifting"
>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Nb5qLMvbU>
>>>>>
>>>>> Note that chain stretch has a similar naming problem.
>>>>> The chain
>>>>> components will wear, but do not stretch.
>>>
>>>> ‘Cable stretch’ is sloppy installation.
>>>> Lou
>>>
>>> Yes, but there are tools available that reduce "cable
>>> slop" during
>>> installation:
>>> <https://www.parktool.com/product/cable-stretcher-bt-2>
>>> Hmmm... I wonder why Park calls it a "cable stetcher"?
>>> Probably
>>> another misled victim.
>>>
>>> More:
>>> <https://pedros.com/products/cable-puller>
>>> <https://www.amazon.com/IceToolz-Fourth-Hand-Cable-Puller/dp/B0028N57KK>
>>>
>>> <https://www.amazon.com/Venzo-Bicycle-Professional-Shifter-Caliper/dp/B088627BDZ>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I use locking pliers, but a proper tool would certainly be
>>> better.
>>
>> A friend introduced me to that tool back in the 1980s. Yes,
>> it's better, and if I did as many cables as a professional
>> bike mechanic I'd use one. But for the couple times per year
>> I fuss with cables it's not worth the bother of buying it
>> and storing it. (My bike tools drawer is rather small and
>> overstuffed.)
>>
>
> I disagree.
> If you were a professional mechanic you would not even consider it.

OK, I'll take your word on that. I've never used one, just watched my
friend use it.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Thu, 3 Feb 2022 16:38:18 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 2/3/2022 3:37 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> On Thu, 3 Feb 2022 11:57:52 -0800 (PST), Lou Holtman
>> <lou.holtman@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 8:50:21 PM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 3 Feb 2022 02:45:20 -0800 (PST), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
>>>> <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In my quest to ensure I have the best quality equipment on all my rides, I've been made aware that I should really invest in special Campagnolo non-stretch shifting cables for optimal shifting performance. I've searched in vain on the web for anything marketed as such and was not even aware that campy realized this was an issue that needed addressing. Would anyone have any links for such a product? or have I been misled?
>>>>>
>>>>> https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/hE70fWkwt6E/m/LGCH-_r_AAAJ
>>>> Yes, you've been misled, but so have Tom and others. The problem is
>>>> that "cable stretch" is a rather poor name for slipping cable end
>>>> clamps, ferrules, jackets and adjustment hardware. What's happening
>>>> is the derailleur or brake clamps are too loose and slip, the aluminum
>>>> cable end is becoming deformed, or the cable housing isn't fully
>>>> seated. These appear to the casual observer as cable stretching.
>>>>
>>>> YouTube videos with additional misled victims of "cable stretch":
>>>>
>>>> "Do Bike Cables Stretch: Fact or Myth - stretching & wear"
>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Cc7xQ2NHvg>
>>>> This one is interesting as the author blames "micro breaks" in the
>>>> outer jacket.
>>>>
>>>> "Fix Cable Stretch on your new bike"
>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep5-Z5vIw-o>
>>>>
>>>> "Cable stretch myth and how to prevent poor shifting"
>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Nb5qLMvbU>
>>>>
>>>> Note that chain stretch has a similar naming problem. The chain
>>>> components will wear, but do not stretch.
>>
>>> ‘Cable stretch’ is sloppy installation.
>>> Lou
>>
>> Yes, but there are tools available that reduce "cable slop" during
>> installation:
>> <https://www.parktool.com/product/cable-stretcher-bt-2>
>> Hmmm... I wonder why Park calls it a "cable stetcher"? Probably
>> another misled victim.
>>
>> More:
>> <https://pedros.com/products/cable-puller>
>> <https://www.amazon.com/IceToolz-Fourth-Hand-Cable-Puller/dp/B0028N57KK>
>> <https://www.amazon.com/Venzo-Bicycle-Professional-Shifter-Caliper/dp/B088627BDZ>
>>
>> I use locking pliers, but a proper tool would certainly be better.
>
>A friend introduced me to that tool back in the 1980s. Yes, it's better,
>and if I did as many cables as a professional bike mechanic I'd use one.
>But for the couple times per year I fuss with cables it's not worth the
>bother of buying it and storing it. (My bike tools drawer is rather
>small and overstuffed.)

I've always used a pair of vice grip, self locking, pliers, the
largest pair I have and just clipped them on, 2 or 3 inches below the
brake or Derailleur and just left them hanging while I tightened up
the clamping bolt. Not perfect perhaps but has always gotten thing
within the range of the adjusting screw
--
Cheers,

John B.