On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 4:50:19 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 11:57:54 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >
> > ‘Cable stretch’ is sloppy installation.
> As Andrew says, it is mis-seating of the outside cable. The inside cable cannot stretch

Except that "chain skipping on the Campy 10 speeds is a common problem until Campy started building special non-stretch cables."

> and Jeff's idea of loose cable locks would simply allow a cable to pull loose. The new style smaller and more ridged Campy outers (and Andrew says that the top end Shimano and SRAM have copied it)

No, Andrew did _not_ write that. He wrote that older campy housings "used 5mm gear casings. The current set is 4mm. Just like every other premium brand" - IOW, Campy _followed_ the rest of the industry. Chalk another one up to tommy's poor reading comprehension.

> fits into most of the cable ends without using metal or plastic cable ends and so cannot "seat" except for the rear derailleur hook outer.
>
> So you'd have to sloppy to the levels of incompetence to have problems with the new style cables.

Which is why you had to go buy Campys Special Non-Stretch Cables. Where did you get those Tommy? Inquiring minds want to know!

On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 8:26:23 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Feb 2022 16:38:18 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> >On 2/3/2022 3:37 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> >> On Thu, 3 Feb 2022 11:57:52 -0800 (PST), Lou Holtman
> >> <lou.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 8:50:21 PM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>> On Thu, 3 Feb 2022 02:45:20 -0800 (PST), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
> >>>> <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> In my quest to ensure I have the best quality equipment on all my rides, I've been made aware that I should really invest in special Campagnolo non-stretch shifting cables for optimal shifting performance. I've searched in vain on the web for anything marketed as such and was not even aware that campy realized this was an issue that needed addressing. Would anyone have any links for such a product? or have I been misled?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/hE70fWkwt6E/m/LGCH-_r_AAAJ
> >>>> Yes, you've been misled, but so have Tom and others. The problem is
> >>>> that "cable stretch" is a rather poor name for slipping cable end
> >>>> clamps, ferrules, jackets and adjustment hardware. What's happening
> >>>> is the derailleur or brake clamps are too loose and slip, the aluminum
> >>>> cable end is becoming deformed, or the cable housing isn't fully
> >>>> seated. These appear to the casual observer as cable stretching.
> >>>>
> >>>> YouTube videos with additional misled victims of "cable stretch":
> >>>>
> >>>> "Do Bike Cables Stretch: Fact or Myth - stretching & wear"
> >>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Cc7xQ2NHvg>
> >>>> This one is interesting as the author blames "micro breaks" in the
> >>>> outer jacket.
> >>>>
> >>>> "Fix Cable Stretch on your new bike"
> >>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep5-Z5vIw-o>
> >>>>
> >>>> "Cable stretch myth and how to prevent poor shifting"
> >>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Nb5qLMvbU>
> >>>>
> >>>> Note that chain stretch has a similar naming problem. The chain
> >>>> components will wear, but do not stretch.
> >>
> >>> ‘Cable stretch’ is sloppy installation.
> >>> Lou
> >>
> >> Yes, but there are tools available that reduce "cable slop" during
> >> installation:
> >> <https://www.parktool.com/product/cable-stretcher-bt-2>
> >> Hmmm... I wonder why Park calls it a "cable stetcher"? Probably
> >> another misled victim.
> >>
> >> More:
> >> <https://pedros.com/products/cable-puller>
> >> <https://www.amazon.com/IceToolz-Fourth-Hand-Cable-Puller/dp/B0028N57KK>
> >> <https://www.amazon.com/Venzo-Bicycle-Professional-Shifter-Caliper/dp/B088627BDZ>
> >>
> >> I use locking pliers, but a proper tool would certainly be better.
> >
> >A friend introduced me to that tool back in the 1980s. Yes, it's better,
> >and if I did as many cables as a professional bike mechanic I'd use one.
> >But for the couple times per year I fuss with cables it's not worth the
> >bother of buying it and storing it. (My bike tools drawer is rather
> >small and overstuffed.)
> I've always used a pair of vice grip, self locking, pliers, the
> largest pair I have and just clipped them on, 2 or 3 inches below the
> brake or Derailleur and just left them hanging while I tightened up
> the clamping bolt. Not perfect perhaps but has always gotten thing
> within the range of the adjusting screw

That's mostly how I do it, except that I squeeze the calipers firmly while tightening the bolt with the adjuster at the 'loose' end of it's range. Give the lever a good tight squeeze to seat everything, then adjust the tension. I very rarely have to to another iteration.

On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 2:02:45 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 2/3/2022 3:38 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 2/3/2022 3:37 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> >> On Thu, 3 Feb 2022 11:57:52 -0800 (PST), Lou Holtman
> >> <lou.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 8:50:21 PM UTC+1,
> >>> jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>> On Thu, 3 Feb 2022 02:45:20 -0800 (PST),
> >>>> "funkma...@hotmail.com"
> >>>> <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> In my quest to ensure I have the best quality equipment
> >>>>> on all my rides, I've been made aware that I should
> >>>>> really invest in special Campagnolo non-stretch
> >>>>> shifting cables for optimal shifting performance. I've
> >>>>> searched in vain on the web for anything marketed as
> >>>>> such and was not even aware that campy realized this
> >>>>> was an issue that needed addressing. Would anyone have
> >>>>> any links for such a product? or have I been misled?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/hE70fWkwt6E/m/LGCH-_r_AAAJ
> >>>>>
> >>>> Yes, you've been misled, but so have Tom and others. The
> >>>> problem is
> >>>> that "cable stretch" is a rather poor name for slipping
> >>>> cable end
> >>>> clamps, ferrules, jackets and adjustment hardware.
> >>>> What's happening
> >>>> is the derailleur or brake clamps are too loose and
> >>>> slip, the aluminum
> >>>> cable end is becoming deformed, or the cable housing
> >>>> isn't fully
> >>>> seated. These appear to the casual observer as cable
> >>>> stretching.
> >>>>
> >>>> YouTube videos with additional misled victims of "cable
> >>>> stretch":
> >>>>
> >>>> "Do Bike Cables Stretch: Fact or Myth - stretching & wear"
> >>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Cc7xQ2NHvg>
> >>>> This one is interesting as the author blames "micro
> >>>> breaks" in the
> >>>> outer jacket.
> >>>>
> >>>> "Fix Cable Stretch on your new bike"
> >>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep5-Z5vIw-o>
> >>>>
> >>>> "Cable stretch myth and how to prevent poor shifting"
> >>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Nb5qLMvbU>
> >>>>
> >>>> Note that chain stretch has a similar naming problem.
> >>>> The chain
> >>>> components will wear, but do not stretch.
> >>
> >>> ‘Cable stretch’ is sloppy installation.
> >>> Lou
> >>
> >> Yes, but there are tools available that reduce "cable
> >> slop" during
> >> installation:
> >> <https://www.parktool.com/product/cable-stretcher-bt-2>
> >> Hmmm... I wonder why Park calls it a "cable stetcher"?
> >> Probably
> >> another misled victim.
> >>
> >> More:
> >> <https://pedros.com/products/cable-puller>
> >> <https://www.amazon.com/IceToolz-Fourth-Hand-Cable-Puller/dp/B0028N57KK>
> >>
> >> <https://www.amazon.com/Venzo-Bicycle-Professional-Shifter-Caliper/dp/B088627BDZ>
> >>
> >>
> >> I use locking pliers, but a proper tool would certainly be
> >> better.
> >
> > A friend introduced me to that tool back in the 1980s. Yes,
> > it's better, and if I did as many cables as a professional
> > bike mechanic I'd use one. But for the couple times per year
> > I fuss with cables it's not worth the bother of buying it
> > and storing it. (My bike tools drawer is rather small and
> > overstuffed.)
> >
> I disagree.
> If you were a professional mechanic you would not even
> consider it.

I am a little curious, how do you properly tension the inner front derailleur cable since the wires all have enough rebound in them to make installation even with the front derailleur stops properly set to be quite difficult? I use the fourth hand nowhere else but find it very helpful there.

On 2/4/2022 10:32 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 2:02:45 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 2/3/2022 3:38 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 2/3/2022 3:37 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 3 Feb 2022 11:57:52 -0800 (PST), Lou Holtman
>>>> <lou.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 8:50:21 PM UTC+1,
>>>>> jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Thu, 3 Feb 2022 02:45:20 -0800 (PST),
>>>>>> "funkma...@hotmail.com"
>>>>>> <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In my quest to ensure I have the best quality equipment
>>>>>>> on all my rides, I've been made aware that I should
>>>>>>> really invest in special Campagnolo non-stretch
>>>>>>> shifting cables for optimal shifting performance. I've
>>>>>>> searched in vain on the web for anything marketed as
>>>>>>> such and was not even aware that campy realized this
>>>>>>> was an issue that needed addressing. Would anyone have
>>>>>>> any links for such a product? or have I been misled?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/hE70fWkwt6E/m/LGCH-_r_AAAJ
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, you've been misled, but so have Tom and others. The
>>>>>> problem is
>>>>>> that "cable stretch" is a rather poor name for slipping
>>>>>> cable end
>>>>>> clamps, ferrules, jackets and adjustment hardware.
>>>>>> What's happening
>>>>>> is the derailleur or brake clamps are too loose and
>>>>>> slip, the aluminum
>>>>>> cable end is becoming deformed, or the cable housing
>>>>>> isn't fully
>>>>>> seated. These appear to the casual observer as cable
>>>>>> stretching.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> YouTube videos with additional misled victims of "cable
>>>>>> stretch":
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Do Bike Cables Stretch: Fact or Myth - stretching & wear"
>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Cc7xQ2NHvg>
>>>>>> This one is interesting as the author blames "micro
>>>>>> breaks" in the
>>>>>> outer jacket.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Fix Cable Stretch on your new bike"
>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep5-Z5vIw-o>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Cable stretch myth and how to prevent poor shifting"
>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Nb5qLMvbU>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Note that chain stretch has a similar naming problem.
>>>>>> The chain
>>>>>> components will wear, but do not stretch.
>>>>
>>>>> ‘Cable stretch’ is sloppy installation.
>>>>> Lou
>>>>
>>>> Yes, but there are tools available that reduce "cable
>>>> slop" during
>>>> installation:
>>>> <https://www.parktool.com/product/cable-stretcher-bt-2>
>>>> Hmmm... I wonder why Park calls it a "cable stetcher"?
>>>> Probably
>>>> another misled victim.
>>>>
>>>> More:
>>>> <https://pedros.com/products/cable-puller>
>>>> <https://www.amazon.com/IceToolz-Fourth-Hand-Cable-Puller/dp/B0028N57KK>
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.amazon.com/Venzo-Bicycle-Professional-Shifter-Caliper/dp/B088627BDZ>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I use locking pliers, but a proper tool would certainly be
>>>> better.
>>>
>>> A friend introduced me to that tool back in the 1980s. Yes,
>>> it's better, and if I did as many cables as a professional
>>> bike mechanic I'd use one. But for the couple times per year
>>> I fuss with cables it's not worth the bother of buying it
>>> and storing it. (My bike tools drawer is rather small and
>>> overstuffed.)
>>>
>> I disagree.
>> If you were a professional mechanic you would not even
>> consider it.
>
> I am a little curious, how do you properly tension the inner front derailleur cable since the wires all have enough rebound in them to make installation even with the front derailleur stops properly set to be quite difficult? I use the fourth hand nowhere else but find it very helpful there.
>

Adjust limits by pressing the arm. Lubricate and install
casing and wire. With changer in low gear, pull wire across
anchor plate and tighten. Check limits, check wire tension,
correct as needed. Finally trim and cap wire.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Friday, February 4, 2022 at 9:25:55 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 2/4/2022 10:32 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 2:02:45 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 2/3/2022 3:38 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>> On 2/3/2022 3:37 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> >>>> On Thu, 3 Feb 2022 11:57:52 -0800 (PST), Lou Holtman
> >>>> <lou.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 8:50:21 PM UTC+1,
> >>>>> jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>> On Thu, 3 Feb 2022 02:45:20 -0800 (PST),
> >>>>>> "funkma...@hotmail.com"
> >>>>>> <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> In my quest to ensure I have the best quality equipment
> >>>>>>> on all my rides, I've been made aware that I should
> >>>>>>> really invest in special Campagnolo non-stretch
> >>>>>>> shifting cables for optimal shifting performance. I've
> >>>>>>> searched in vain on the web for anything marketed as
> >>>>>>> such and was not even aware that campy realized this
> >>>>>>> was an issue that needed addressing. Would anyone have
> >>>>>>> any links for such a product? or have I been misled?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/hE70fWkwt6E/m/LGCH-_r_AAAJ
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> Yes, you've been misled, but so have Tom and others. The
> >>>>>> problem is
> >>>>>> that "cable stretch" is a rather poor name for slipping
> >>>>>> cable end
> >>>>>> clamps, ferrules, jackets and adjustment hardware.
> >>>>>> What's happening
> >>>>>> is the derailleur or brake clamps are too loose and
> >>>>>> slip, the aluminum
> >>>>>> cable end is becoming deformed, or the cable housing
> >>>>>> isn't fully
> >>>>>> seated. These appear to the casual observer as cable
> >>>>>> stretching.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> YouTube videos with additional misled victims of "cable
> >>>>>> stretch":
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "Do Bike Cables Stretch: Fact or Myth - stretching & wear"
> >>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Cc7xQ2NHvg>
> >>>>>> This one is interesting as the author blames "micro
> >>>>>> breaks" in the
> >>>>>> outer jacket.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "Fix Cable Stretch on your new bike"
> >>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep5-Z5vIw-o>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "Cable stretch myth and how to prevent poor shifting"
> >>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Nb5qLMvbU>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Note that chain stretch has a similar naming problem.
> >>>>>> The chain
> >>>>>> components will wear, but do not stretch.
> >>>>
> >>>>> ‘Cable stretch’ is sloppy installation.
> >>>>> Lou
> >>>>
> >>>> Yes, but there are tools available that reduce "cable
> >>>> slop" during
> >>>> installation:
> >>>> <https://www.parktool.com/product/cable-stretcher-bt-2>
> >>>> Hmmm... I wonder why Park calls it a "cable stetcher"?
> >>>> Probably
> >>>> another misled victim.
> >>>>
> >>>> More:
> >>>> <https://pedros.com/products/cable-puller>
> >>>> <https://www.amazon.com/IceToolz-Fourth-Hand-Cable-Puller/dp/B0028N57KK>
> >>>>
> >>>> <https://www.amazon.com/Venzo-Bicycle-Professional-Shifter-Caliper/dp/B088627BDZ>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I use locking pliers, but a proper tool would certainly be
> >>>> better.
> >>>
> >>> A friend introduced me to that tool back in the 1980s. Yes,
> >>> it's better, and if I did as many cables as a professional
> >>> bike mechanic I'd use one. But for the couple times per year
> >>> I fuss with cables it's not worth the bother of buying it
> >>> and storing it. (My bike tools drawer is rather small and
> >>> overstuffed.)
> >>>
> >> I disagree.
> >> If you were a professional mechanic you would not even
> >> consider it.
> >
> > I am a little curious, how do you properly tension the inner front derailleur cable since the wires all have enough rebound in them to make installation even with the front derailleur stops properly set to be quite difficult? I use the fourth hand nowhere else but find it very helpful there.
> >
> Adjust limits by pressing the arm. Lubricate and install
> casing and wire. With changer in low gear, pull wire across
> anchor plate and tighten. Check limits, check wire tension,
> correct as needed. Finally trim and cap wire.

After the discussion about how a 4th hand was unnecessary I was just down replacing the handlebar with a one piece and shortening the rear cables. While it is easy to set the rear brake by hand so that you don't have to adjust it, the rear derailleur was another story. But what I did was set the rear derailleur as close as I could with the adjustment centered. Then I shifted up one cog from the bottom. The cable regardless of how tightly I had pulled it was too loose to shift. So I used the 4th hand and pulled just enough tension on the rear derailleur cable for it to shift into the next gear and tightened it. All worked perfect. It goes through all 11 speed without a problem. So there is a reason for a 4th hand in my books.

On Fri, 4 Feb 2022 02:44:36 -0800 (PST), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
<funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 8:26:23 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>> On Thu, 3 Feb 2022 16:38:18 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>> >On 2/3/2022 3:37 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> >> On Thu, 3 Feb 2022 11:57:52 -0800 (PST), Lou Holtman
>> >> <lou.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 8:50:21 PM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >>>> On Thu, 3 Feb 2022 02:45:20 -0800 (PST), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
>> >>>> <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> In my quest to ensure I have the best quality equipment on all my rides, I've been made aware that I should really invest in special Campagnolo non-stretch shifting cables for optimal shifting performance. I've searched in vain on the web for anything marketed as such and was not even aware that campy realized this was an issue that needed addressing. Would anyone have any links for such a product? or have I been misled?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/hE70fWkwt6E/m/LGCH-_r_AAAJ
>> >>>> Yes, you've been misled, but so have Tom and others. The problem is
>> >>>> that "cable stretch" is a rather poor name for slipping cable end
>> >>>> clamps, ferrules, jackets and adjustment hardware. What's happening
>> >>>> is the derailleur or brake clamps are too loose and slip, the aluminum
>> >>>> cable end is becoming deformed, or the cable housing isn't fully
>> >>>> seated. These appear to the casual observer as cable stretching.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> YouTube videos with additional misled victims of "cable stretch":
>> >>>>
>> >>>> "Do Bike Cables Stretch: Fact or Myth - stretching & wear"
>> >>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Cc7xQ2NHvg>
>> >>>> This one is interesting as the author blames "micro breaks" in the
>> >>>> outer jacket.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> "Fix Cable Stretch on your new bike"
>> >>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep5-Z5vIw-o>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> "Cable stretch myth and how to prevent poor shifting"
>> >>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Nb5qLMvbU>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Note that chain stretch has a similar naming problem. The chain
>> >>>> components will wear, but do not stretch.
>> >>
>> >>> ‘Cable stretch’ is sloppy installation.
>> >>> Lou
>> >>
>> >> Yes, but there are tools available that reduce "cable slop" during
>> >> installation:
>> >> <https://www.parktool.com/product/cable-stretcher-bt-2>
>> >> Hmmm... I wonder why Park calls it a "cable stetcher"? Probably
>> >> another misled victim.
>> >>
>> >> More:
>> >> <https://pedros.com/products/cable-puller>
>> >> <https://www.amazon.com/IceToolz-Fourth-Hand-Cable-Puller/dp/B0028N57KK>
>> >> <https://www.amazon.com/Venzo-Bicycle-Professional-Shifter-Caliper/dp/B088627BDZ>
>> >>
>> >> I use locking pliers, but a proper tool would certainly be better.
>> >
>> >A friend introduced me to that tool back in the 1980s. Yes, it's better,
>> >and if I did as many cables as a professional bike mechanic I'd use one.
>> >But for the couple times per year I fuss with cables it's not worth the
>> >bother of buying it and storing it. (My bike tools drawer is rather
>> >small and overstuffed.)
>> I've always used a pair of vice grip, self locking, pliers, the
>> largest pair I have and just clipped them on, 2 or 3 inches below the
>> brake or Derailleur and just left them hanging while I tightened up
>> the clamping bolt. Not perfect perhaps but has always gotten thing
>> within the range of the adjusting screw
>
>That's mostly how I do it, except that I squeeze the calipers firmly while tightening the bolt with the adjuster at the 'loose' end of it's range. Give the lever a good tight squeeze to seat everything, then adjust the tension. I very rarely have to to another iteration.

Sort of like tying your shoes. Give the laces a good tug before you
tie the knot, otherwise they will come loose.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 2/3/2022 11:50 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Feb 2022 02:45:20 -0800 (PST), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
> <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> In my quest to ensure I have the best quality equipment on all my rides, I've been made aware that I should really invest in special Campagnolo non-stretch shifting cables for optimal shifting performance. I've searched in vain on the web for anything marketed as such and was not even aware that campy realized this was an issue that needed addressing. Would anyone have any links for such a product? or have I been misled?
>>
>> https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/hE70fWkwt6E/m/LGCH-_r_AAAJ
>
> Yes, you've been misled, but so have Tom and others. The problem is
> that "cable stretch" is a rather poor name for slipping cable end
> clamps, ferrules, jackets and adjustment hardware. What's happening
> is the derailleur or brake clamps are too loose and slip, the aluminum
> cable end is becoming deformed, or the cable housing isn't fully
> seated. These appear to the casual observer as cable stretching.

If you look at the web sites for control cables for military and
aircraft applications, pre-stretching occurs at the factory. All
wire-rope cables will stretch as they come off the winding machines. For
bicycles, since it's non-critical, pre-stretched cables are not available.

Some people confuse proor-loading of the cable assemble with
pre-stretching of the wire. that is what you're referring to when you
include clamps, ferrules, jackets, and adjustment hardware. But the wire
itself does actually stretch, it just contributes less than all the
other components in the cable assembly.

On Sunday, February 6, 2022 at 6:37:31 AM UTC+1, sms wrote:
> On 2/3/2022 11:50 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> > On Thu, 3 Feb 2022 02:45:20 -0800 (PST), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
> > <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> In my quest to ensure I have the best quality equipment on all my rides, I've been made aware that I should really invest in special Campagnolo non-stretch shifting cables for optimal shifting performance. I've searched in vain on the web for anything marketed as such and was not even aware that campy realized this was an issue that needed addressing. Would anyone have any links for such a product? or have I been misled?
> >>
> >> https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/hE70fWkwt6E/m/LGCH-_r_AAAJ
> >
> > Yes, you've been misled, but so have Tom and others. The problem is
> > that "cable stretch" is a rather poor name for slipping cable end
> > clamps, ferrules, jackets and adjustment hardware. What's happening
> > is the derailleur or brake clamps are too loose and slip, the aluminum
> > cable end is becoming deformed, or the cable housing isn't fully
> > seated. These appear to the casual observer as cable stretching.
> If you look at the web sites for control cables for military and
> aircraft applications, pre-stretching occurs at the factory. All
> wire-rope cables will stretch as they come off the winding machines. For
> bicycles, since it's non-critical, pre-stretched cables are not available..
>
> Some people confuse proor-loading of the cable assemble with
> pre-stretching of the wire. that is what you're referring to when you
> include clamps, ferrules, jackets, and adjustment hardware. But the wire
> itself does actually stretch, it just contributes less than all the
> other components in the cable assembly.

Yeah even a solid rod stretches theoretically. You know what tension forces are exerted on a shift cable?

Lou

On Sun, 6 Feb 2022 06:24:58 -0800 (PST), Lou Holtman
<lou.holtman@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, February 6, 2022 at 6:37:31 AM UTC+1, sms wrote:
>> On 2/3/2022 11:50 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> > On Thu, 3 Feb 2022 02:45:20 -0800 (PST), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
>> > <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> In my quest to ensure I have the best quality equipment on all my rides, I've been made aware that I should really invest in special Campagnolo non-stretch shifting cables for optimal shifting performance. I've searched in vain on the web for anything marketed as such and was not even aware that campy realized this was an issue that needed addressing. Would anyone have any links for such a product? or have I been misled?
>> >>
>> >> https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/hE70fWkwt6E/m/LGCH-_r_AAAJ
>> >
>> > Yes, you've been misled, but so have Tom and others. The problem is
>> > that "cable stretch" is a rather poor name for slipping cable end
>> > clamps, ferrules, jackets and adjustment hardware. What's happening
>> > is the derailleur or brake clamps are too loose and slip, the aluminum
>> > cable end is becoming deformed, or the cable housing isn't fully
>> > seated. These appear to the casual observer as cable stretching.
>> If you look at the web sites for control cables for military and
>> aircraft applications, pre-stretching occurs at the factory. All
>> wire-rope cables will stretch as they come off the winding machines. For
>> bicycles, since it's non-critical, pre-stretched cables are not available.
>>
>> Some people confuse proor-loading of the cable assemble with
>> pre-stretching of the wire. that is what you're referring to when you
>> include clamps, ferrules, jackets, and adjustment hardware. But the wire
>> itself does actually stretch, it just contributes less than all the
>> other components in the cable assembly.
>
>Yeah even a solid rod stretches theoretically. You know what tension forces are exerted on a shift cable?
>
>Lou

Solid rod stretching? Yes, in fact that is how tensile strength of
metal is measured. A specific diameter "rod" of the material is
"stretched" and the load at which it which starts to elongate it and
the load at which it is pulls apart is recorded (:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sunday, February 6, 2022 at 2:25:35 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Feb 2022 06:24:58 -0800 (PST), Lou Holtman
> <lou.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Sunday, February 6, 2022 at 6:37:31 AM UTC+1, sms wrote:
> >> On 2/3/2022 11:50 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> >> > On Thu, 3 Feb 2022 02:45:20 -0800 (PST), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
> >> > <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> In my quest to ensure I have the best quality equipment on all my rides, I've been made aware that I should really invest in special Campagnolo non-stretch shifting cables for optimal shifting performance. I've searched in vain on the web for anything marketed as such and was not even aware that campy realized this was an issue that needed addressing. Would anyone have any links for such a product? or have I been misled?
> >> >>
> >> >> https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/hE70fWkwt6E/m/LGCH-_r_AAAJ
> >> >
> >> > Yes, you've been misled, but so have Tom and others. The problem is
> >> > that "cable stretch" is a rather poor name for slipping cable end
> >> > clamps, ferrules, jackets and adjustment hardware. What's happening
> >> > is the derailleur or brake clamps are too loose and slip, the aluminum
> >> > cable end is becoming deformed, or the cable housing isn't fully
> >> > seated. These appear to the casual observer as cable stretching.
> >> If you look at the web sites for control cables for military and
> >> aircraft applications, pre-stretching occurs at the factory. All
> >> wire-rope cables will stretch as they come off the winding machines. For
> >> bicycles, since it's non-critical, pre-stretched cables are not available.
> >>
> >> Some people confuse proor-loading of the cable assemble with
> >> pre-stretching of the wire. that is what you're referring to when you
> >> include clamps, ferrules, jackets, and adjustment hardware. But the wire
> >> itself does actually stretch, it just contributes less than all the
> >> other components in the cable assembly.
> >
> >Yeah even a solid rod stretches theoretically. You know what tension forces are exerted on a shift cable?
> >
> >Lou
> Solid rod stretching? Yes, in fact that is how tensile strength of
> metal is measured. A specific diameter "rod" of the material is
> "stretched" and the load at which it which starts to elongate it and
> the load at which it is pulls apart is recorded (:-)

As usual you can't wait to look the stupid ass you are. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8U4G5kcpcM

On 2/7/2022 9:45 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Sunday, February 6, 2022 at 2:25:35 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
>> On Sun, 6 Feb 2022 06:24:58 -0800 (PST), Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>
>>> Yeah even a solid rod stretches theoretically.

Well, not just theoretically. Any stress causes some deformation.

> You know what tension forces are exerted on a shift cable?
>>>
>>> Lou
>> Solid rod stretching? Yes, in fact that is how tensile strength of
>> metal is measured. A specific diameter "rod" of the material is
>> "stretched" and the load at which it which starts to elongate it and
>> the load at which it is pulls apart is recorded (:-)
>
> As usual you can't wait to look the stupid ass you are. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8U4G5kcpcM

???

Tom, you just posted a link to a video that confirms what John said,
just with more detail.

What part of that did you not understand?

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Monday, February 7, 2022 at 9:13:43 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 2/7/2022 9:45 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Sunday, February 6, 2022 at 2:25:35 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
> >> On Sun, 6 Feb 2022 06:24:58 -0800 (PST), Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Yeah even a solid rod stretches theoretically.
> Well, not just theoretically. Any stress causes some deformation.
> > You know what tension forces are exerted on a shift cable?
> >>>
> >>> Lou
> >> Solid rod stretching? Yes, in fact that is how tensile strength of
> >> metal is measured. A specific diameter "rod" of the material is
> >> "stretched" and the load at which it which starts to elongate it and
> >> the load at which it is pulls apart is recorded (:-)
> >
> > As usual you can't wait to look the stupid ass you are. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8U4G5kcpcM
> ???
>
> Tom, you just posted a link to a video that confirms what John said,
> just with more detail.
>
> What part of that did you not understand?

Perhaps you should stop showing that as a mechanical engineering teacher that you don't understand the basics. Measuring the strength of a material is NOT measuring the strength of a rod. To know the strength of a rod you use the published strength of a material and the SIZE of a rod. You do not test a rod for its particular strength.

Frank, hardly a day goes by that you don't show that you cannot even remember the absolute basics of engineering. Are you suffering from dementia?

On 2/7/2022 12:27 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Monday, February 7, 2022 at 9:13:43 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 2/7/2022 9:45 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Sunday, February 6, 2022 at 2:25:35 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 6 Feb 2022 06:24:58 -0800 (PST), Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah even a solid rod stretches theoretically.
>> Well, not just theoretically. Any stress causes some deformation.
>>> You know what tension forces are exerted on a shift cable?
>>>>>
>>>>> Lou
>>>> Solid rod stretching? Yes, in fact that is how tensile strength of
>>>> metal is measured. A specific diameter "rod" of the material is
>>>> "stretched" and the load at which it which starts to elongate it and
>>>> the load at which it is pulls apart is recorded (:-)
>>>
>>> As usual you can't wait to look the stupid ass you are. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8U4G5kcpcM
>> ???
>>
>> Tom, you just posted a link to a video that confirms what John said,
>> just with more detail.
>>
>> What part of that did you not understand?
>
> Perhaps you should stop showing that as a mechanical engineering teacher that you don't understand the basics. Measuring the strength of a material is NOT measuring the strength of a rod. To know the strength of a rod you use the published strength of a material and the SIZE of a rod. You do not test a rod for its particular strength.

As you often do, you seem to be arguing against what you pretend someone
said (or perhaps wish they said) as opposed to what they actually said.
Nothing John said should have caused confusion. But if you have honest
questions about tensile strength or tensile testing, please ask away.

BTW, how's your quest for "non-stretch" cables coming? Does your
universe contain metal that exhibits no elongation when subjected to
tensile forces? Does Hooke's Law apply in your universe?

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Monday, February 7, 2022 at 9:53:43 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 2/7/2022 12:27 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Monday, February 7, 2022 at 9:13:43 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> On 2/7/2022 9:45 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>> On Sunday, February 6, 2022 at 2:25:35 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
> >>>> On Sun, 6 Feb 2022 06:24:58 -0800 (PST), Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Yeah even a solid rod stretches theoretically.
> >> Well, not just theoretically. Any stress causes some deformation.
> >>> You know what tension forces are exerted on a shift cable?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Lou
> >>>> Solid rod stretching? Yes, in fact that is how tensile strength of
> >>>> metal is measured. A specific diameter "rod" of the material is
> >>>> "stretched" and the load at which it which starts to elongate it and
> >>>> the load at which it is pulls apart is recorded (:-)
> >>>
> >>> As usual you can't wait to look the stupid ass you are. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8U4G5kcpcM
> >> ???
> >>
> >> Tom, you just posted a link to a video that confirms what John said,
> >> just with more detail.
> >>
> >> What part of that did you not understand?
> >
> > Perhaps you should stop showing that as a mechanical engineering teacher that you don't understand the basics. Measuring the strength of a material is NOT measuring the strength of a rod. To know the strength of a rod you use the published strength of a material and the SIZE of a rod. You do not test a rod for its particular strength.
> As you often do, you seem to be arguing against what you pretend someone
> said (or perhaps wish they said) as opposed to what they actually said.
> Nothing John said should have caused confusion. But if you have honest
> questions about tensile strength or tensile testing, please ask away.
>
> BTW, how's your quest for "non-stretch" cables coming? Does your
> universe contain metal that exhibits no elongation when subjected to
> tensile forces? Does Hooke's Law apply in your universe?

And as usual you do not want the truth published, you only want to argue that I'm wrong when what I said was 100% correct and what Dipwawd said was utter garbage. As I said and as John improperly said, you do NOT measure the strength of a rod by measuring that rod. You have a material strength and you chose the area of the rod to match the material strength. Why are you arguing about this since it is the basis of materials science?

On 2/7/2022 1:04 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Monday, February 7, 2022 at 9:53:43 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 2/7/2022 12:27 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Monday, February 7, 2022 at 9:13:43 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>> On 2/7/2022 9:45 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, February 6, 2022 at 2:25:35 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 6 Feb 2022 06:24:58 -0800 (PST), Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yeah even a solid rod stretches theoretically.
>>>> Well, not just theoretically. Any stress causes some deformation.
>>>>> You know what tension forces are exerted on a shift cable?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>> Solid rod stretching? Yes, in fact that is how tensile strength of
>>>>>> metal is measured. A specific diameter "rod" of the material is
>>>>>> "stretched" and the load at which it which starts to elongate it and
>>>>>> the load at which it is pulls apart is recorded (:-)
>>>>>
>>>>> As usual you can't wait to look the stupid ass you are. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8U4G5kcpcM
>>>> ???
>>>>
>>>> Tom, you just posted a link to a video that confirms what John said,
>>>> just with more detail.
>>>>
>>>> What part of that did you not understand?
>>>
>>> Perhaps you should stop showing that as a mechanical engineering teacher that you don't understand the basics. Measuring the strength of a material is NOT measuring the strength of a rod. To know the strength of a rod you use the published strength of a material and the SIZE of a rod. You do not test a rod for its particular strength.
>> As you often do, you seem to be arguing against what you pretend someone
>> said (or perhaps wish they said) as opposed to what they actually said.
>> Nothing John said should have caused confusion. But if you have honest
>> questions about tensile strength or tensile testing, please ask away.
>>
>> BTW, how's your quest for "non-stretch" cables coming? Does your
>> universe contain metal that exhibits no elongation when subjected to
>> tensile forces? Does Hooke's Law apply in your universe?
>
> And as usual you do not want the truth published, you only want to argue that I'm wrong when what I said was 100% correct and what Dipwawd said was utter garbage. As I said and as John improperly said, you do NOT measure the strength of a rod by measuring that rod.

That's not what John said. Why won't your wife help you with reading
comprehension? Doesn't she like you?

Again, if you have real questions about material testing, just ask.
Otherwise, you'll look less foolish if you just shut up.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Monday, February 7, 2022 at 12:02:15 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 2/7/2022 1:04 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Monday, February 7, 2022 at 9:53:43 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> On 2/7/2022 12:27 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>> On Monday, February 7, 2022 at 9:13:43 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>>> On 2/7/2022 9:45 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>> On Sunday, February 6, 2022 at 2:25:35 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
> >>>>>> On Sun, 6 Feb 2022 06:24:58 -0800 (PST), Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Yeah even a solid rod stretches theoretically.
> >>>> Well, not just theoretically. Any stress causes some deformation.
> >>>>> You know what tension forces are exerted on a shift cable?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Lou
> >>>>>> Solid rod stretching? Yes, in fact that is how tensile strength of
> >>>>>> metal is measured. A specific diameter "rod" of the material is
> >>>>>> "stretched" and the load at which it which starts to elongate it and
> >>>>>> the load at which it is pulls apart is recorded (:-)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> As usual you can't wait to look the stupid ass you are. https://www..youtube.com/watch?v=D8U4G5kcpcM
> >>>> ???
> >>>>
> >>>> Tom, you just posted a link to a video that confirms what John said,
> >>>> just with more detail.
> >>>>
> >>>> What part of that did you not understand?
> >>>
> >>> Perhaps you should stop showing that as a mechanical engineering teacher that you don't understand the basics. Measuring the strength of a material is NOT measuring the strength of a rod. To know the strength of a rod you use the published strength of a material and the SIZE of a rod. You do not test a rod for its particular strength.
> >> As you often do, you seem to be arguing against what you pretend someone
> >> said (or perhaps wish they said) as opposed to what they actually said..
> >> Nothing John said should have caused confusion. But if you have honest
> >> questions about tensile strength or tensile testing, please ask away.
> >>
> >> BTW, how's your quest for "non-stretch" cables coming? Does your
> >> universe contain metal that exhibits no elongation when subjected to
> >> tensile forces? Does Hooke's Law apply in your universe?
> >
> > And as usual you do not want the truth published, you only want to argue that I'm wrong when what I said was 100% correct and what Dipwawd said was utter garbage. As I said and as John improperly said, you do NOT measure the strength of a rod by measuring that rod.
> That's not what John said. Why won't your wife help you with reading
> comprehension? Doesn't she like you?
>
> Again, if you have real questions about material testing, just ask.
> Otherwise, you'll look less foolish if you just shut up.

Looking back I can see how I might have misunderstood that really smart John. His English is a little rusty after so many years in a foreign land. John did not answer Lou's comment but made one that could have been misinterpreted as meaning that you actually stretched specific diameters of rod (or cable) to measure their tensile strength direct.

Of course the specific diameter of the test piece is irrelevant since the only thing necessary to know is it's cross section and it's stress test. This ONLY gives the strength of a specific material.

When people are saying that inner cables don't stretch, why haven't you corrected them? A stress test of that cable would show ZERO stress for a certain added pressure since the cable does wind up. But you have ignored that because the actual breaking force is too small for that wind-up to have any effect. Maybe you should have your wife remind you that you once trained as an engineer and being precise is the sign of an engineer.

So now you're the courageous one like Flunky. Why don't you make me shut up you brave, courageous man?

On Monday, February 7, 2022 at 9:24:55 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Monday, February 7, 2022 at 12:02:15 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 2/7/2022 1:04 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > On Monday, February 7, 2022 at 9:53:43 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > >> On 2/7/2022 12:27 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >>> On Monday, February 7, 2022 at 9:13:43 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > >>>> On 2/7/2022 9:45 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >>>>> On Sunday, February 6, 2022 at 2:25:35 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
> > >>>>>> On Sun, 6 Feb 2022 06:24:58 -0800 (PST), Lou Holtman wrote:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Yeah even a solid rod stretches theoretically.
> > >>>> Well, not just theoretically. Any stress causes some deformation.
> > >>>>> You know what tension forces are exerted on a shift cable?
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Lou
> > >>>>>> Solid rod stretching? Yes, in fact that is how tensile strength of
> > >>>>>> metal is measured. A specific diameter "rod" of the material is
> > >>>>>> "stretched" and the load at which it which starts to elongate it and
> > >>>>>> the load at which it is pulls apart is recorded (:-)
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> As usual you can't wait to look the stupid ass you are. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8U4G5kcpcM
> > >>>> ???
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Tom, you just posted a link to a video that confirms what John said,
> > >>>> just with more detail.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> What part of that did you not understand?
> > >>>
> > >>> Perhaps you should stop showing that as a mechanical engineering teacher that you don't understand the basics. Measuring the strength of a material is NOT measuring the strength of a rod. To know the strength of a rod you use the published strength of a material and the SIZE of a rod. You do not test a rod for its particular strength.
> > >> As you often do, you seem to be arguing against what you pretend someone
> > >> said (or perhaps wish they said) as opposed to what they actually said.
> > >> Nothing John said should have caused confusion. But if you have honest
> > >> questions about tensile strength or tensile testing, please ask away..
> > >>
> > >> BTW, how's your quest for "non-stretch" cables coming? Does your
> > >> universe contain metal that exhibits no elongation when subjected to
> > >> tensile forces? Does Hooke's Law apply in your universe?
> > >
> > > And as usual you do not want the truth published, you only want to argue that I'm wrong when what I said was 100% correct and what Dipwawd said was utter garbage. As I said and as John improperly said, you do NOT measure the strength of a rod by measuring that rod.
> > That's not what John said. Why won't your wife help you with reading
> > comprehension? Doesn't she like you?
> >
> > Again, if you have real questions about material testing, just ask.
> > Otherwise, you'll look less foolish if you just shut up.
> Looking back I can see how I might have misunderstood that really smart John. His English is a little rusty after so many years in a foreign land. John did not answer Lou's comment but made one that could have been misinterpreted as meaning that you actually stretched specific diameters of rod (or cable) to measure their tensile strength direct.
>
> Of course the specific diameter of the test piece is irrelevant since the only thing necessary to know is it's cross section and it's stress test. This ONLY gives the strength of a specific material.
>
> When people are saying that inner cables don't stretch, why haven't you corrected them? A stress test of that cable would show ZERO stress for a certain added pressure since the cable does wind up. But you have ignored that because the actual breaking force is too small for that wind-up to have any effect. Maybe you should have your wife remind you that you once trained as an engineer and being precise is the sign of an engineer.
>
> So now you're the courageous one like Flunky. Why don't you make me shut up you brave, courageous man?

For the record in reply to sms post what I tried to say was that the forces on a shifter cable is so small that the strech or wind up is irrelevant. That is the reason we can use the shifter outer cables as they are. Again ‘cable stretch’ is a sloppy installating which can easily be prevented.

Lou

On Monday, February 7, 2022 at 12:55:42 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Monday, February 7, 2022 at 9:24:55 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Monday, February 7, 2022 at 12:02:15 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > On 2/7/2022 1:04 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > On Monday, February 7, 2022 at 9:53:43 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > >> On 2/7/2022 12:27 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > >>> On Monday, February 7, 2022 at 9:13:43 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > >>>> On 2/7/2022 9:45 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > >>>>> On Sunday, February 6, 2022 at 2:25:35 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
> > > >>>>>> On Sun, 6 Feb 2022 06:24:58 -0800 (PST), Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> Yeah even a solid rod stretches theoretically.
> > > >>>> Well, not just theoretically. Any stress causes some deformation..
> > > >>>>> You know what tension forces are exerted on a shift cable?
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> Lou
> > > >>>>>> Solid rod stretching? Yes, in fact that is how tensile strength of
> > > >>>>>> metal is measured. A specific diameter "rod" of the material is
> > > >>>>>> "stretched" and the load at which it which starts to elongate it and
> > > >>>>>> the load at which it is pulls apart is recorded (:-)
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> As usual you can't wait to look the stupid ass you are. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8U4G5kcpcM
> > > >>>> ???
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Tom, you just posted a link to a video that confirms what John said,
> > > >>>> just with more detail.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> What part of that did you not understand?
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Perhaps you should stop showing that as a mechanical engineering teacher that you don't understand the basics. Measuring the strength of a material is NOT measuring the strength of a rod. To know the strength of a rod you use the published strength of a material and the SIZE of a rod. You do not test a rod for its particular strength.
> > > >> As you often do, you seem to be arguing against what you pretend someone
> > > >> said (or perhaps wish they said) as opposed to what they actually said.
> > > >> Nothing John said should have caused confusion. But if you have honest
> > > >> questions about tensile strength or tensile testing, please ask away.
> > > >>
> > > >> BTW, how's your quest for "non-stretch" cables coming? Does your
> > > >> universe contain metal that exhibits no elongation when subjected to
> > > >> tensile forces? Does Hooke's Law apply in your universe?
> > > >
> > > > And as usual you do not want the truth published, you only want to argue that I'm wrong when what I said was 100% correct and what Dipwawd said was utter garbage. As I said and as John improperly said, you do NOT measure the strength of a rod by measuring that rod.
> > > That's not what John said. Why won't your wife help you with reading
> > > comprehension? Doesn't she like you?
> > >
> > > Again, if you have real questions about material testing, just ask.
> > > Otherwise, you'll look less foolish if you just shut up.
> > Looking back I can see how I might have misunderstood that really smart John. His English is a little rusty after so many years in a foreign land. John did not answer Lou's comment but made one that could have been misinterpreted as meaning that you actually stretched specific diameters of rod (or cable) to measure their tensile strength direct.
> >
> > Of course the specific diameter of the test piece is irrelevant since the only thing necessary to know is it's cross section and it's stress test. This ONLY gives the strength of a specific material.
> >
> > When people are saying that inner cables don't stretch, why haven't you corrected them? A stress test of that cable would show ZERO stress for a certain added pressure since the cable does wind up. But you have ignored that because the actual breaking force is too small for that wind-up to have any effect. Maybe you should have your wife remind you that you once trained as an engineer and being precise is the sign of an engineer.
> >
> > So now you're the courageous one like Flunky. Why don't you make me shut up you brave, courageous man?
> For the record in reply to sms post what I tried to say was that the forces on a shifter cable is so small that the strech or wind up is irrelevant. That is the reason we can use the shifter outer cables as they are. Again ‘cable stretch’ is a sloppy installating which can easily be prevented.
>
> Lou

I completely agree with you but it is there on a clean setup too. As I pointed out, I set up the rear derailleur as tight as possible and the rear derailleur would not move up from the small cog, to the next one. So using a 4th hand I could tighten the inner cable enough to operate normally quite easily. Shifter cables for front and rear derailleurs always have sufficient wind-up to make it difficult to allow them to work. A pro mechanic will set the derailleur limits by eye and then pull the inner cables tight with a pair of pliers. Then they use the adjusters to make them work. As a normal mechanic, I set the cable tension properly using a 4th hand and get them to work properly and THEN set the limit screws because you have to have a lot of room to work. I'm working in my garage with a car sharing the space. I can't stand back far enough to set limits by eye. This also goes for the rotation of many bikes that don't use braze-on derailleurs but rather adapter or circular clamp front derailleurs. I now have a system worked out to adjust the derailleurs so that they are now silent over the entire range.

On Monday, February 7, 2022 at 10:17:16 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Monday, February 7, 2022 at 12:55:42 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > On Monday, February 7, 2022 at 9:24:55 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > On Monday, February 7, 2022 at 12:02:15 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > On 2/7/2022 1:04 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > > On Monday, February 7, 2022 at 9:53:43 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > >> On 2/7/2022 12:27 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > >>> On Monday, February 7, 2022 at 9:13:43 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > >>>> On 2/7/2022 9:45 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > >>>>> On Sunday, February 6, 2022 at 2:25:35 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
> > > > >>>>>> On Sun, 6 Feb 2022 06:24:58 -0800 (PST), Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> Yeah even a solid rod stretches theoretically.
> > > > >>>> Well, not just theoretically. Any stress causes some deformation.
> > > > >>>>> You know what tension forces are exerted on a shift cable?
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> Lou
> > > > >>>>>> Solid rod stretching? Yes, in fact that is how tensile strength of
> > > > >>>>>> metal is measured. A specific diameter "rod" of the material is
> > > > >>>>>> "stretched" and the load at which it which starts to elongate it and
> > > > >>>>>> the load at which it is pulls apart is recorded (:-)
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> As usual you can't wait to look the stupid ass you are. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8U4G5kcpcM
> > > > >>>> ???
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Tom, you just posted a link to a video that confirms what John said,
> > > > >>>> just with more detail.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> What part of that did you not understand?
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Perhaps you should stop showing that as a mechanical engineering teacher that you don't understand the basics. Measuring the strength of a material is NOT measuring the strength of a rod. To know the strength of a rod you use the published strength of a material and the SIZE of a rod. You do not test a rod for its particular strength.
> > > > >> As you often do, you seem to be arguing against what you pretend someone
> > > > >> said (or perhaps wish they said) as opposed to what they actually said.
> > > > >> Nothing John said should have caused confusion. But if you have honest
> > > > >> questions about tensile strength or tensile testing, please ask away.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> BTW, how's your quest for "non-stretch" cables coming? Does your
> > > > >> universe contain metal that exhibits no elongation when subjected to
> > > > >> tensile forces? Does Hooke's Law apply in your universe?
> > > > >
> > > > > And as usual you do not want the truth published, you only want to argue that I'm wrong when what I said was 100% correct and what Dipwawd said was utter garbage. As I said and as John improperly said, you do NOT measure the strength of a rod by measuring that rod.
> > > > That's not what John said. Why won't your wife help you with reading
> > > > comprehension? Doesn't she like you?
> > > >
> > > > Again, if you have real questions about material testing, just ask.
> > > > Otherwise, you'll look less foolish if you just shut up.
> > > Looking back I can see how I might have misunderstood that really smart John. His English is a little rusty after so many years in a foreign land. John did not answer Lou's comment but made one that could have been misinterpreted as meaning that you actually stretched specific diameters of rod (or cable) to measure their tensile strength direct.
> > >
> > > Of course the specific diameter of the test piece is irrelevant since the only thing necessary to know is it's cross section and it's stress test. This ONLY gives the strength of a specific material.
> > >
> > > When people are saying that inner cables don't stretch, why haven't you corrected them? A stress test of that cable would show ZERO stress for a certain added pressure since the cable does wind up. But you have ignored that because the actual breaking force is too small for that wind-up to have any effect. Maybe you should have your wife remind you that you once trained as an engineer and being precise is the sign of an engineer.
> > >
> > > So now you're the courageous one like Flunky. Why don't you make me shut up you brave, courageous man?
> > For the record in reply to sms post what I tried to say was that the forces on a shifter cable is so small that the strech or wind up is irrelevant. That is the reason we can use the shifter outer cables as they are. Again ‘cable stretch’ is a sloppy installating which can easily be prevented.
> >
> > Lou
> I completely agree with you but it is there on a clean setup too. As I pointed out, I set up the rear derailleur as tight as possible and the rear derailleur would not move up from the small cog, to the next one. So using a 4th hand I could tighten the inner cable enough to operate normally quite easily. Shifter cables for front and rear derailleurs always have sufficient wind-up to make it difficult to allow them to work. A pro mechanic will set the derailleur limits by eye and then pull the inner cables tight with a pair of pliers. Then they use the adjusters to make them work. As a normal mechanic, I set the cable tension properly using a 4th hand and get them to work properly and THEN set the limit screws because you have to have a lot of room to work. I'm working in my garage with a car sharing the space. I can't stand back far enough to set limits by eye. This also goes for the rotation of many bikes that don't use braze-on derailleurs but rather adapter or circular clamp front derailleurs. I now have a system worked out to adjust the derailleurs so that they are now silent over the entire range.

You can tighten the cable as much as you like with pliers or forth hand but after you thighten the bolt it is only the derailleur spring that tensions the cable. You only tension the cable with pliers as much as possible to avoid running out of adjustment range.

Lou

On Mon, 7 Feb 2022 06:45:01 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, February 6, 2022 at 2:25:35 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
>> On Sun, 6 Feb 2022 06:24:58 -0800 (PST), Lou Holtman
>> <lou.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Sunday, February 6, 2022 at 6:37:31 AM UTC+1, sms wrote:
>> >> On 2/3/2022 11:50 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> >> > On Thu, 3 Feb 2022 02:45:20 -0800 (PST), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
>> >> > <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> In my quest to ensure I have the best quality equipment on all my rides, I've been made aware that I should really invest in special Campagnolo non-stretch shifting cables for optimal shifting performance. I've searched in vain on the web for anything marketed as such and was not even aware that campy realized this was an issue that needed addressing. Would anyone have any links for such a product? or have I been misled?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/hE70fWkwt6E/m/LGCH-_r_AAAJ
>> >> >
>> >> > Yes, you've been misled, but so have Tom and others. The problem is
>> >> > that "cable stretch" is a rather poor name for slipping cable end
>> >> > clamps, ferrules, jackets and adjustment hardware. What's happening
>> >> > is the derailleur or brake clamps are too loose and slip, the aluminum
>> >> > cable end is becoming deformed, or the cable housing isn't fully
>> >> > seated. These appear to the casual observer as cable stretching.
>> >> If you look at the web sites for control cables for military and
>> >> aircraft applications, pre-stretching occurs at the factory. All
>> >> wire-rope cables will stretch as they come off the winding machines. For
>> >> bicycles, since it's non-critical, pre-stretched cables are not available.
>> >>
>> >> Some people confuse proor-loading of the cable assemble with
>> >> pre-stretching of the wire. that is what you're referring to when you
>> >> include clamps, ferrules, jackets, and adjustment hardware. But the wire
>> >> itself does actually stretch, it just contributes less than all the
>> >> other components in the cable assembly.
>> >
>> >Yeah even a solid rod stretches theoretically. You know what tension forces are exerted on a shift cable?
>> >
>> >Lou
>> Solid rod stretching? Yes, in fact that is how tensile strength of
>> metal is measured. A specific diameter "rod" of the material is
>> "stretched" and the load at which it which starts to elongate it and
>> the load at which it is pulls apart is recorded (:-)
>
>As usual you can't wait to look the stupid ass you are. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8U4G5kcpcM

Errr TOMMY! Did you actually watch that video?

I ask as it demonstrates, for those that don't read well, just exactly
what I wrote.

As Frank suggested, you really should get your wife, or some other
person with normal mental facilities to read and explain what's right
there on the page... "in black and white" as the old saying has it.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Mon, 7 Feb 2022 09:27:36 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, February 7, 2022 at 9:13:43 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 2/7/2022 9:45 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> > On Sunday, February 6, 2022 at 2:25:35 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
>> >> On Sun, 6 Feb 2022 06:24:58 -0800 (PST), Lou Holtman wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Yeah even a solid rod stretches theoretically.
>> Well, not just theoretically. Any stress causes some deformation.
>> > You know what tension forces are exerted on a shift cable?
>> >>>
>> >>> Lou
>> >> Solid rod stretching? Yes, in fact that is how tensile strength of
>> >> metal is measured. A specific diameter "rod" of the material is
>> >> "stretched" and the load at which it which starts to elongate it and
>> >> the load at which it is pulls apart is recorded (:-)
>> >
>> > As usual you can't wait to look the stupid ass you are. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8U4G5kcpcM
>> ???
>>
>> Tom, you just posted a link to a video that confirms what John said,
>> just with more detail.
>>
>> What part of that did you not understand?
>
>Perhaps you should stop showing that as a mechanical engineering
teacher that you don't understand the basics. Measuring the strength
of a material is NOT measuring the strength of a rod. To know the
strength of a rod you use the published strength of a material and the
SIZE of a rod. You do not test a rod for its particular strength.
>
>Frank, hardly a day goes by that you don't show that you cannot even remember the absolute basics of engineering. Are you suffering from dementia?

See there Frank, you are dumb as dumb can be.

I wonder how Tommy thinks that the "published strength of a material",
as he terms it, is determined.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Mon, 7 Feb 2022 10:04:36 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, February 7, 2022 at 9:53:43 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 2/7/2022 12:27 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> > On Monday, February 7, 2022 at 9:13:43 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> >> On 2/7/2022 9:45 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >>> On Sunday, February 6, 2022 at 2:25:35 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
>> >>>> On Sun, 6 Feb 2022 06:24:58 -0800 (PST), Lou Holtman wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Yeah even a solid rod stretches theoretically.
>> >> Well, not just theoretically. Any stress causes some deformation.
>> >>> You know what tension forces are exerted on a shift cable?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Lou
>> >>>> Solid rod stretching? Yes, in fact that is how tensile strength of
>> >>>> metal is measured. A specific diameter "rod" of the material is
>> >>>> "stretched" and the load at which it which starts to elongate it and
>> >>>> the load at which it is pulls apart is recorded (:-)
>> >>>
>> >>> As usual you can't wait to look the stupid ass you are. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8U4G5kcpcM
>> >> ???
>> >>
>> >> Tom, you just posted a link to a video that confirms what John said,
>> >> just with more detail.
>> >>
>> >> What part of that did you not understand?
>> >
>> > Perhaps you should stop showing that as a mechanical engineering teacher that you don't understand the basics. Measuring the strength of a material is NOT measuring the strength of a rod. To know the strength of a rod you use the published strength of a material and the SIZE of a rod. You do not test a rod for its particular strength.
>> As you often do, you seem to be arguing against what you pretend someone
>> said (or perhaps wish they said) as opposed to what they actually said.
>> Nothing John said should have caused confusion. But if you have honest
>> questions about tensile strength or tensile testing, please ask away.
>>
>> BTW, how's your quest for "non-stretch" cables coming? Does your
>> universe contain metal that exhibits no elongation when subjected to
>> tensile forces? Does Hooke's Law apply in your universe?
>
>And as usual you do not want the truth published, you only want to argue that I'm wrong when what I said was 100% correct and what Dipwawd said was utter garbage. As I said and as John improperly said, you do NOT measure the strength of a rod by measuring that rod. You have a material strength and you chose the area of the rod to match the material strength. Why are you arguing about this since it is the basis of materials science?

Well Tommy, supposing that you don't have your head firmly inserted in
your own posterior, can you tell us just how this "material strength"
that you mention is determined?

I would add that any claims that you have made of being an "engineer"
just flapped their wings and flew out the window.

You, to quote someone or another, "wouldn't make a pimple on an
engineer's arse".
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Mon, 7 Feb 2022 12:24:53 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, February 7, 2022 at 12:02:15 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 2/7/2022 1:04 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> > On Monday, February 7, 2022 at 9:53:43 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> >> On 2/7/2022 12:27 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >>> On Monday, February 7, 2022 at 9:13:43 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> >>>> On 2/7/2022 9:45 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >>>>> On Sunday, February 6, 2022 at 2:25:35 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
>> >>>>>> On Sun, 6 Feb 2022 06:24:58 -0800 (PST), Lou Holtman wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Yeah even a solid rod stretches theoretically.
>> >>>> Well, not just theoretically. Any stress causes some deformation.
>> >>>>> You know what tension forces are exerted on a shift cable?
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Lou
>> >>>>>> Solid rod stretching? Yes, in fact that is how tensile strength of
>> >>>>>> metal is measured. A specific diameter "rod" of the material is
>> >>>>>> "stretched" and the load at which it which starts to elongate it and
>> >>>>>> the load at which it is pulls apart is recorded (:-)
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> As usual you can't wait to look the stupid ass you are. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8U4G5kcpcM
>> >>>> ???
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Tom, you just posted a link to a video that confirms what John said,
>> >>>> just with more detail.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> What part of that did you not understand?
>> >>>
>> >>> Perhaps you should stop showing that as a mechanical engineering teacher that you don't understand the basics. Measuring the strength of a material is NOT measuring the strength of a rod. To know the strength of a rod you use the published strength of a material and the SIZE of a rod. You do not test a rod for its particular strength.
>> >> As you often do, you seem to be arguing against what you pretend someone
>> >> said (or perhaps wish they said) as opposed to what they actually said.
>> >> Nothing John said should have caused confusion. But if you have honest
>> >> questions about tensile strength or tensile testing, please ask away.
>> >>
>> >> BTW, how's your quest for "non-stretch" cables coming? Does your
>> >> universe contain metal that exhibits no elongation when subjected to
>> >> tensile forces? Does Hooke's Law apply in your universe?
>> >
>> > And as usual you do not want the truth published, you only want to argue that I'm wrong when what I said was 100% correct and what Dipwawd said was utter garbage. As I said and as John improperly said, you do NOT measure the strength of a rod by measuring that rod.
>> That's not what John said. Why won't your wife help you with reading
>> comprehension? Doesn't she like you?
>>
>> Again, if you have real questions about material testing, just ask.
>> Otherwise, you'll look less foolish if you just shut up.
>
>Looking back I can see how I might have misunderstood that really smart John. His English is a little rusty after so many years in a foreign land. John did not answer Lou's comment but made one that could have been misinterpreted as meaning that you actually stretched specific diameters of rod (or cable) to measure their tensile strength direct.
>
>Of course the specific diameter of the test piece is irrelevant since the only thing necessary to know is it's cross section and it's stress test. This ONLY gives the strength of a specific material.
>
>When people are saying that inner cables don't stretch, why haven't you corrected them? A stress test of that cable would show ZERO stress for a certain added pressure since the cable does wind up. But you have ignored that because the actual breaking force is too small for that wind-up to have any effect. Maybe you should have your wife remind you that you once trained as an engineer and being precise is the sign of an engineer.
>
>So now you're the courageous one like Flunky. Why don't you make me shut up you brave, courageous man?

Well Tommy, my English might be a bit rusty but I still know what
"stress" is, or the word means, if you prefer and your use of the
word... "ZERO stress for a certain added pressure".
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Mon, 7 Feb 2022 12:55:40 -0800 (PST), Lou Holtman
<lou.holtman@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, February 7, 2022 at 9:24:55 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> On Monday, February 7, 2022 at 12:02:15 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> > On 2/7/2022 1:04 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> > > On Monday, February 7, 2022 at 9:53:43 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> > >> On 2/7/2022 12:27 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> > >>> On Monday, February 7, 2022 at 9:13:43 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> > >>>> On 2/7/2022 9:45 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> > >>>>> On Sunday, February 6, 2022 at 2:25:35 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
>> > >>>>>> On Sun, 6 Feb 2022 06:24:58 -0800 (PST), Lou Holtman wrote:
>> > >>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>> Yeah even a solid rod stretches theoretically.
>> > >>>> Well, not just theoretically. Any stress causes some deformation.
>> > >>>>> You know what tension forces are exerted on a shift cable?
>> > >>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>> Lou
>> > >>>>>> Solid rod stretching? Yes, in fact that is how tensile strength of
>> > >>>>>> metal is measured. A specific diameter "rod" of the material is
>> > >>>>>> "stretched" and the load at which it which starts to elongate it and
>> > >>>>>> the load at which it is pulls apart is recorded (:-)
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>> As usual you can't wait to look the stupid ass you are. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8U4G5kcpcM
>> > >>>> ???
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> Tom, you just posted a link to a video that confirms what John said,
>> > >>>> just with more detail.
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> What part of that did you not understand?
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Perhaps you should stop showing that as a mechanical engineering teacher that you don't understand the basics. Measuring the strength of a material is NOT measuring the strength of a rod. To know the strength of a rod you use the published strength of a material and the SIZE of a rod. You do not test a rod for its particular strength.
>> > >> As you often do, you seem to be arguing against what you pretend someone
>> > >> said (or perhaps wish they said) as opposed to what they actually said.
>> > >> Nothing John said should have caused confusion. But if you have honest
>> > >> questions about tensile strength or tensile testing, please ask away.
>> > >>
>> > >> BTW, how's your quest for "non-stretch" cables coming? Does your
>> > >> universe contain metal that exhibits no elongation when subjected to
>> > >> tensile forces? Does Hooke's Law apply in your universe?
>> > >
>> > > And as usual you do not want the truth published, you only want to argue that I'm wrong when what I said was 100% correct and what Dipwawd said was utter garbage. As I said and as John improperly said, you do NOT measure the strength of a rod by measuring that rod.
>> > That's not what John said. Why won't your wife help you with reading
>> > comprehension? Doesn't she like you?
>> >
>> > Again, if you have real questions about material testing, just ask.
>> > Otherwise, you'll look less foolish if you just shut up.
>> Looking back I can see how I might have misunderstood that really smart John. His English is a little rusty after so many years in a foreign land. John did not answer Lou's comment but made one that could have been misinterpreted as meaning that you actually stretched specific diameters of rod (or cable) to measure their tensile strength direct.
>>
>> Of course the specific diameter of the test piece is irrelevant since the only thing necessary to know is it's cross section and it's stress test. This ONLY gives the strength of a specific material.
>>
>> When people are saying that inner cables don't stretch, why haven't you corrected them? A stress test of that cable would show ZERO stress for a certain added pressure since the cable does wind up. But you have ignored that because the actual breaking force is too small for that wind-up to have any effect. Maybe you should have your wife remind you that you once trained as an engineer and being precise is the sign of an engineer.
>>
>> So now you're the courageous one like Flunky. Why don't you make me shut up you brave, courageous man?
>
>For the record in reply to sms post what I tried to say was that the forces on a shifter cable is so small that the strech or wind up is irrelevant. That is the reason we can use the shifter outer cables as they are. Again ‘cable stretch’ is a sloppy installating which can easily be prevented.
>
>Lou

Well, I published some actual "stretch" numbers taken from cable
manufacturer's published figures and YES a cable, the size of the
Shimano shift cables does stretch. An amazing 0.003 of 1 inch at a 1
pound load!

Somewhat less then the diameter of a human hair (:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 2/7/2022 5:09 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Mon, 7 Feb 2022 12:55:40 -0800 (PST), Lou Holtman
> <lou.holtman@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Monday, February 7, 2022 at 9:24:55 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Monday, February 7, 2022 at 12:02:15 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>> On 2/7/2022 1:04 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>> On Monday, February 7, 2022 at 9:53:43 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>> On 2/7/2022 12:27 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>> On Monday, February 7, 2022 at 9:13:43 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2/7/2022 9:45 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, February 6, 2022 at 2:25:35 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 6 Feb 2022 06:24:58 -0800 (PST), Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah even a solid rod stretches theoretically.
>>>>>>>> Well, not just theoretically. Any stress causes some deformation.
>>>>>>>>> You know what tension forces are exerted on a shift cable?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>>>>>> Solid rod stretching? Yes, in fact that is how tensile strength of
>>>>>>>>>> metal is measured. A specific diameter "rod" of the material is
>>>>>>>>>> "stretched" and the load at which it which starts to elongate it and
>>>>>>>>>> the load at which it is pulls apart is recorded (:-)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As usual you can't wait to look the stupid ass you are. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8U4G5kcpcM
>>>>>>>> ???
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tom, you just posted a link to a video that confirms what John said,
>>>>>>>> just with more detail.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What part of that did you not understand?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Perhaps you should stop showing that as a mechanical engineering teacher that you don't understand the basics. Measuring the strength of a material is NOT measuring the strength of a rod. To know the strength of a rod you use the published strength of a material and the SIZE of a rod. You do not test a rod for its particular strength.
>>>>>> As you often do, you seem to be arguing against what you pretend someone
>>>>>> said (or perhaps wish they said) as opposed to what they actually said.
>>>>>> Nothing John said should have caused confusion. But if you have honest
>>>>>> questions about tensile strength or tensile testing, please ask away.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BTW, how's your quest for "non-stretch" cables coming? Does your
>>>>>> universe contain metal that exhibits no elongation when subjected to
>>>>>> tensile forces? Does Hooke's Law apply in your universe?
>>>>>
>>>>> And as usual you do not want the truth published, you only want to argue that I'm wrong when what I said was 100% correct and what Dipwawd said was utter garbage. As I said and as John improperly said, you do NOT measure the strength of a rod by measuring that rod.
>>>> That's not what John said. Why won't your wife help you with reading
>>>> comprehension? Doesn't she like you?
>>>>
>>>> Again, if you have real questions about material testing, just ask.
>>>> Otherwise, you'll look less foolish if you just shut up.
>>> Looking back I can see how I might have misunderstood that really smart John. His English is a little rusty after so many years in a foreign land. John did not answer Lou's comment but made one that could have been misinterpreted as meaning that you actually stretched specific diameters of rod (or cable) to measure their tensile strength direct.
>>>
>>> Of course the specific diameter of the test piece is irrelevant since the only thing necessary to know is it's cross section and it's stress test. This ONLY gives the strength of a specific material.
>>>
>>> When people are saying that inner cables don't stretch, why haven't you corrected them? A stress test of that cable would show ZERO stress for a certain added pressure since the cable does wind up. But you have ignored that because the actual breaking force is too small for that wind-up to have any effect. Maybe you should have your wife remind you that you once trained as an engineer and being precise is the sign of an engineer.
>>>
>>> So now you're the courageous one like Flunky. Why don't you make me shut up you brave, courageous man?
>>
>> For the record in reply to sms post what I tried to say was that the forces on a shifter cable is so small that the strech or wind up is irrelevant. That is the reason we can use the shifter outer cables as they are. Again ‘cable stretch’ is a sloppy installating which can easily be prevented.
>>
>> Lou
>
> Well, I published some actual "stretch" numbers taken from cable
> manufacturer's published figures and YES a cable, the size of the
> Shimano shift cables does stretch. An amazing 0.003 of 1 inch at a 1
> pound load!
>
> Somewhat less then the diameter of a human hair (:-)
>

That's roughly the thickness of standard office paper.
Immaterial to bicycle function although, yes, not zero.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971