On 6/30/2022 2:50 AM, John B. wrote:
>
>
> By the way, in AC house wiring there is no plus and negative there is
> a "hot" wire and a "Neutral" and sometimes a 3rd wire" ground".
>
> While the Neutral is usually grounded at the "entrance" to the
> building this should not be assumed to be true as the system will work
> whether grounded or not.

But of course, there's great value in following wiring conventions.

I've already mentioned the part-owner of one small company where I did
some work for a time. He swore white wires were hot and black were neutral.

One electrician we knew gave him the nickname "Sparky."

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Thursday, June 30, 2022 at 9:15:58 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 4:02:25 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> > On Wed, 29 Jun 2022 08:15:30 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> > <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >On Tuesday, June 28, 2022 at 4:18:34 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> > >> On Tue, 28 Jun 2022 07:52:13 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> > >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> >On Monday, June 27, 2022 at 7:35:07 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> > >> >> On Mon, 27 Jun 2022 18:41:38 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> > >> >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >> >On Sunday, June 26, 2022 at 5:04:19 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >> >> >> On Sunday, June 26, 2022 at 10:12:11 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >> >> >> > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 11:38:03 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > >> >> >> > > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 8:24:58 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >> >> >> > > > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 10:56:08 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > >> >> >> > > > > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 7:04:38 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >> >> >> > > > > > On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 2:08:53 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >> >> >> > > > > > > Well, I have been bothered by my Garmin 830 reporting "Laps" of 5 miles each. These are absolutely worthless but I have yet to discover a way of turning this off. When I flip the Laps notation "off" it still continues with this distraction.
> > >> >> >> > > > > > >
> > >> >> >> > > > > > > More serious is it turning off at the strangest moments and for no reason. Yesterday, on that 38 mile ride, it turned off after 21 miles. I think that there was a small indicator that showed it was off but not very noticeable until I reached the top of the climb and started down and got to fairly easy descent from the 12% top descent. This means that I cut 10 miles off of my 38 mile recording. Luckily I did this exact route a month ago and so could get the climb and length off of it. But the new Shamal wheels which had a remarkable effect on my flats speed didn't show any true average speed.
> > >> >> >> > > > > > >
> > >> >> >> > > > > > > This happened more commonly in the past but it had more or less stopped doing this with the last firmware update. Well, they updated it again and it looks like it is back.
> > >> >> >> > > > > > >
> > >> >> >> > > > > > > I was also having trouble with my 830 finding the speed/cadence sensor but I figured that one out - they have a class of Cadence sensor and another Speed/Cadence sensor. They are different and apparently have different identification codes. Once discovered, easily fixed.
> > >> >> >> > > > > > >
> > >> >> >> > > > > > > Now I have to watch for the unit shutting off for some reason. I think that occurs when I come to a stop for more than 10 seconds like when I stopped to take a leak along the road. The distance to that point is about correct for the stopped mileage.
> > >> >> >> > > > > > The garminhas carried on with its piculiar behavior. I think that it was the last firmware update that did it in. The immediately followed that by yet another firmware update. So hopefully that wil correct the problem. It shows the route when you get to the end of the ride and connect it with Garmin Express, but it shows zero mileage for these sections. The last time the Garmin switched off at 5 miles into a 30 mile ride leaving me to guess at distances.
> > >> >> >> > > > > That are strange problems. My brother uses an edge 830 for a couple of years now without those problems. He had issues when the unit came out but all that was solved by the first couple of updates. Garmin and software is not a great combination. Have you consulted the Garmin forum:
> > >> >> >> > > > > https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fitness/cycling/f/edge-830
> > >> >> >> > > > It appears that a lot of people are having trouble with either the same or related problems. Tomorrow I'll be taking anoter ride and start early and hope the wind and weather aren't too bad or hot. If it fails yet again after I've reset it, I'll have to call Service again. The last problem I had he sent me a non-released version of firmware that fixed all of the problems. I think I'll carry the 810 in my back pocket so that I don't have to guess at distances anymore. The 830 is smaller and lighter but DAMN are a lot of people having problems with it.
> > >> >> >> > > The software engineers at Garmin are morons.
> > >> >> >> > Well, one of the help line guys suggested that I disconnect the 830 from the old version 1 speed/cadence sensor and I did that running purely on GPS and it operated perfectly. I will try it again today and then change it over to the version 2 speed and cadence sensors which I think are different. If this works I will let the Garmen people know that they have a big fat bug sitting in the middle of their Version 1 sensor firmware.
> > >> >> >> Again it operated perfectly so I will ad a version 2 Cadence and speed sensor and see it that fits the problem.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >In an attempt to hook up the Version 2 speed and cadence sensors, I discovered that the 830 acts as it all of the screens are locked. I cannot get into adding a sensor screen because pushing the 3 lines has absolutely no effect. Fooling around with the power button gets me into a power screen at the top of which is an item that says "Lock Screens" pushing that has no effect either, as does pushing the buttons below it saying "power off" or "go to sleep".
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >If I turn the timer on, the timer starts running but it shows speed while sitting in my computer room. It you turn the timer off, it asks you if you want to save the recording. But the X for NO also doesn't work.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >Does anyone have any idea about how to get this to work?
> > >> >> And thus speaks the chap with, by his own admission, 50 years of
> > >> >> software engineering!
> > >> >
> > >> >Thus speaks a moron that knows absolutely nothing about firmware or the difference between it and software. But he can run his mouth off for things other than blowing off little Thai boys.
> > >> Nice one Tommy, but you are the one who brags about all your
> > >> experience designing exotic medical equipment and now you need help in
> > >> turning on a simple electronic device that hundreds, probably
> > >> thousands, of others use with no problems.
> > >>
> > >> Tell us Tommy, do you also have problems with light switches in your
> > >> house? "Lets see.... is it up or down?"
> > >
> > >You're so stupid you cannot tell the difference between turning something on and it working properly. One can only wonder how you can put your own socks on. Or is that why you married a Thai woman whom you claim doesn't want to live in America with large Thai populations.
> > Socks? Nobody wears socks with sandals.
> > As for my wife, I'm not claiming, she did visit the U.S, and she did
> > state that she would never want to live there as the people weren't
> > "nice".
> > As for the "large" Thai populations... well the U.S. Migration Policy
> > Institute has it that there are 239,942 Thai's living in the U.S. as
> > of 2011.
> >
> > As for you I can only repeat my previous comment that even a very
> > small child, or even a puppy dog, will learn if you slap it on the
> > arse and shout NO! when it misbehaves. But you've been slapped on the
> > arse, documented for at least 16 years, and you haven't learned a
> > thing.
> >
> > I think the light switch may be too complicated for one of your mental
> > caliber.
> So you're admitting you lied about you bringing your wife to the US and her not liking it. She of course preferred a Thai open air market with flies covering the produce rather than an air conditioned supermarket with food that people don't have to wonder if it will poison them or not.

Tommy, you being a city boy who has no clue about where food comes from, I will tell you something. Lots of food is grown in the DIRT!!!!!! Yes that is right, the DIRT!!!!!!!!! And the animals we raise and slaughter and eat are also usually raised on dirt. Standing on the dirt. Not eating the dirt. But the food they eat is grown in the dirt. DIRT!!!!!!!!!!! And guess what Tommy? There are flies and bugs and all kinds of other things in this dirt!!!!!!!!! Or on the crops. Now when all the food is processed, it is usually kept reasonably clean. But I think the FDA has some rules for bug parts per millions thing or another. And human beings deal with germs and bacteria pretty well. I think there is some bacteria that live inside humans!!!!!!!!!!

On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 07:15:54 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 4:02:25 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>> On Wed, 29 Jun 2022 08:15:30 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Tuesday, June 28, 2022 at 4:18:34 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>> >> On Tue, 28 Jun 2022 07:52:13 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On Monday, June 27, 2022 at 7:35:07 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>> >> >> On Mon, 27 Jun 2022 18:41:38 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> >> >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >On Sunday, June 26, 2022 at 5:04:19 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >> >> >> On Sunday, June 26, 2022 at 10:12:11 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >> >> >> > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 11:38:03 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> >> >> >> > > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 8:24:58 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >> >> >> > > > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 10:56:08 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> >> >> >> > > > > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 7:04:38 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >> >> >> > > > > > On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 2:08:53 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >> >> >> > > > > > > Well, I have been bothered by my Garmin 830 reporting "Laps" of 5 miles each. These are absolutely worthless but I have yet to discover a way of turning this off. When I flip the Laps notation "off" it still continues with this distraction.
>> >> >> >> > > > > > >
>> >> >> >> > > > > > > More serious is it turning off at the strangest moments and for no reason. Yesterday, on that 38 mile ride, it turned off after 21 miles. I think that there was a small indicator that showed it was off but not very noticeable until I reached the top of the climb and started down and got to fairly easy descent from the 12% top descent. This means that I cut 10 miles off of my 38 mile recording. Luckily I did this exact route a month ago and so could get the climb and length off of it. But the new Shamal wheels which had a remarkable effect on my flats speed didn't show any true average speed.
>> >> >> >> > > > > > >
>> >> >> >> > > > > > > This happened more commonly in the past but it had more or less stopped doing this with the last firmware update. Well, they updated it again and it looks like it is back.
>> >> >> >> > > > > > >
>> >> >> >> > > > > > > I was also having trouble with my 830 finding the speed/cadence sensor but I figured that one out - they have a class of Cadence sensor and another Speed/Cadence sensor. They are different and apparently have different identification codes. Once discovered, easily fixed.
>> >> >> >> > > > > > >
>> >> >> >> > > > > > > Now I have to watch for the unit shutting off for some reason. I think that occurs when I come to a stop for more than 10 seconds like when I stopped to take a leak along the road. The distance to that point is about correct for the stopped mileage.
>> >> >> >> > > > > > The garminhas carried on with its piculiar behavior. I think that it was the last firmware update that did it in. The immediately followed that by yet another firmware update. So hopefully that wil correct the problem. It shows the route when you get to the end of the ride and connect it with Garmin Express, but it shows zero mileage for these sections. The last time the Garmin switched off at 5 miles into a 30 mile ride leaving me to guess at distances.
>> >> >> >> > > > > That are strange problems. My brother uses an edge 830 for a couple of years now without those problems. He had issues when the unit came out but all that was solved by the first couple of updates. Garmin and software is not a great combination. Have you consulted the Garmin forum:
>> >> >> >> > > > > https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fitness/cycling/f/edge-830
>> >> >> >> > > > It appears that a lot of people are having trouble with either the same or related problems. Tomorrow I'll be taking anoter ride and start early and hope the wind and weather aren't too bad or hot. If it fails yet again after I've reset it, I'll have to call Service again. The last problem I had he sent me a non-released version of firmware that fixed all of the problems. I think I'll carry the 810 in my back pocket so that I don't have to guess at distances anymore. The 830 is smaller and lighter but DAMN are a lot of people having problems with it.
>> >> >> >> > > The software engineers at Garmin are morons.
>> >> >> >> > Well, one of the help line guys suggested that I disconnect the 830 from the old version 1 speed/cadence sensor and I did that running purely on GPS and it operated perfectly. I will try it again today and then change it over to the version 2 speed and cadence sensors which I think are different. If this works I will let the Garmen people know that they have a big fat bug sitting in the middle of their Version 1 sensor firmware.
>> >> >> >> Again it operated perfectly so I will ad a version 2 Cadence and speed sensor and see it that fits the problem.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >In an attempt to hook up the Version 2 speed and cadence sensors, I discovered that the 830 acts as it all of the screens are locked. I cannot get into adding a sensor screen because pushing the 3 lines has absolutely no effect. Fooling around with the power button gets me into a power screen at the top of which is an item that says "Lock Screens" pushing that has no effect either, as does pushing the buttons below it saying "power off" or "go to sleep".
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >If I turn the timer on, the timer starts running but it shows speed while sitting in my computer room. It you turn the timer off, it asks you if you want to save the recording. But the X for NO also doesn't work.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Does anyone have any idea about how to get this to work?
>> >> >> And thus speaks the chap with, by his own admission, 50 years of
>> >> >> software engineering!
>> >> >
>> >> >Thus speaks a moron that knows absolutely nothing about firmware or the difference between it and software. But he can run his mouth off for things other than blowing off little Thai boys.
>> >> Nice one Tommy, but you are the one who brags about all your
>> >> experience designing exotic medical equipment and now you need help in
>> >> turning on a simple electronic device that hundreds, probably
>> >> thousands, of others use with no problems.
>> >>
>> >> Tell us Tommy, do you also have problems with light switches in your
>> >> house? "Lets see.... is it up or down?"
>> >
>> >You're so stupid you cannot tell the difference between turning something on and it working properly. One can only wonder how you can put your own socks on. Or is that why you married a Thai woman whom you claim doesn't want to live in America with large Thai populations.
>> Socks? Nobody wears socks with sandals.
>> As for my wife, I'm not claiming, she did visit the U.S, and she did
>> state that she would never want to live there as the people weren't
>> "nice".
>> As for the "large" Thai populations... well the U.S. Migration Policy
>> Institute has it that there are 239,942 Thai's living in the U.S. as
>> of 2011.
>>
>> As for you I can only repeat my previous comment that even a very
>> small child, or even a puppy dog, will learn if you slap it on the
>> arse and shout NO! when it misbehaves. But you've been slapped on the
>> arse, documented for at least 16 years, and you haven't learned a
>> thing.
>>
>> I think the light switch may be too complicated for one of your mental
>> caliber.
>
>So you're admitting you lied about you bringing your wife to the US and her not liking it. She of course preferred a Thai open air market with flies covering the produce rather than an air conditioned supermarket with food that people don't have to wonder if it will poison them or not.

I don't think I said that "I brought" I think I said "She visited" but
if you show me the actual post I will apologize.

As for open markets. Yup, we have them here as well as modern "Super
Markets". But the part that you are missing is that the stuff in the
open market is fresh, not that old stuff that you are buying in the
super market. And as for poisoning someone, I can only say that I've
lived here for 50 years with no food poisoning yet (:-)

On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 07:17:58 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 11:50:45 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>> On Wed, 29 Jun 2022 23:20:12 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Thursday, June 30, 2022 at 12:56:55 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>> >> On Wed, 29 Jun 2022 16:48:58 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>> >> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 6:02:25 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>> >> >> On Wed, 29 Jun 2022 08:15:30 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> >> >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >On Tuesday, June 28, 2022 at 4:18:34 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>> >> >> >> On Tue, 28 Jun 2022 07:52:13 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> >> >> >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >On Monday, June 27, 2022 at 7:35:07 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> On Mon, 27 Jun 2022 18:41:38 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> >> >> >> >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >On Sunday, June 26, 2022 at 5:04:19 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >> On Sunday, June 26, 2022 at 10:12:11 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >> > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 11:38:03 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 8:24:58 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 10:56:08 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 7:04:38 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 2:08:53 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > Well, I have been bothered by my Garmin 830 reporting "Laps" of 5 miles each. These are absolutely worthless but I have yet to discover a way of turning this off. When I flip the Laps notation "off" it still continues with this distraction.
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > >
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > More serious is it turning off at the strangest moments and for no reason. Yesterday, on that 38 mile ride, it turned off after 21 miles. I think that there was a small indicator that showed it was off but not very noticeable until I reached the top of the climb and started down and got to fairly easy descent from the 12% top descent. This means that I cut 10 miles off of my 38 mile recording. Luckily I did this exact route a month ago and so could get the climb and length off of it. But the new Shamal wheels which had a remarkable effect on my flats speed didn't show any true average speed.
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > >
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > This happened more commonly in the past but it had more or less stopped doing this with the last firmware update. Well, they updated it again and it looks like it is back.
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > >
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > I was also having trouble with my 830 finding the speed/cadence sensor but I figured that one out - they have a class of Cadence sensor and another Speed/Cadence sensor. They are different and apparently have different identification codes. Once discovered, easily fixed.
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > >
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > Now I have to watch for the unit shutting off for some reason. I think that occurs when I come to a stop for more than 10 seconds like when I stopped to take a leak along the road. The distance to that point is about correct for the stopped mileage.
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > The garminhas carried on with its piculiar behavior. I think that it was the last firmware update that did it in. The immediately followed that by yet another firmware update. So hopefully that wil correct the problem. It shows the route when you get to the end of the ride and connect it with Garmin Express, but it shows zero mileage for these sections. The last time the Garmin switched off at 5 miles into a 30 mile ride leaving me to guess at distances.
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > That are strange problems. My brother uses an edge 830 for a couple of years now without those problems. He had issues when the unit came out but all that was solved by the first couple of updates. Garmin and software is not a great combination. Have you consulted the Garmin forum:
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fitness/cycling/f/edge-830
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > It appears that a lot of people are having trouble with either the same or related problems. Tomorrow I'll be taking anoter ride and start early and hope the wind and weather aren't too bad or hot. If it fails yet again after I've reset it, I'll have to call Service again. The last problem I had he sent me a non-released version of firmware that fixed all of the problems. I think I'll carry the 810 in my back pocket so that I don't have to guess at distances anymore. The 830 is smaller and lighter but DAMN are a lot of people having problems with it.
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > The software engineers at Garmin are morons.
>> >> >> >> >> >> > Well, one of the help line guys suggested that I disconnect the 830 from the old version 1 speed/cadence sensor and I did that running purely on GPS and it operated perfectly. I will try it again today and then change it over to the version 2 speed and cadence sensors which I think are different. If this works I will let the Garmen people know that they have a big fat bug sitting in the middle of their Version 1 sensor firmware.
>> >> >> >> >> >> Again it operated perfectly so I will ad a version 2 Cadence and speed sensor and see it that fits the problem.
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >In an attempt to hook up the Version 2 speed and cadence sensors, I discovered that the 830 acts as it all of the screens are locked. I cannot get into adding a sensor screen because pushing the 3 lines has absolutely no effect. Fooling around with the power button gets me into a power screen at the top of which is an item that says "Lock Screens" pushing that has no effect either, as does pushing the buttons below it saying "power off" or "go to sleep".
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >If I turn the timer on, the timer starts running but it shows speed while sitting in my computer room. It you turn the timer off, it asks you if you want to save the recording. But the X for NO also doesn't work.
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >Does anyone have any idea about how to get this to work?
>> >> >> >> >> And thus speaks the chap with, by his own admission, 50 years of
>> >> >> >> >> software engineering!
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >Thus speaks a moron that knows absolutely nothing about firmware or the difference between it and software. But he can run his mouth off for things other than blowing off little Thai boys.
>> >> >> >> Nice one Tommy, but you are the one who brags about all your
>> >> >> >> experience designing exotic medical equipment and now you need help in
>> >> >> >> turning on a simple electronic device that hundreds, probably
>> >> >> >> thousands, of others use with no problems.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Tell us Tommy, do you also have problems with light switches in your
>> >> >> >> house? "Lets see.... is it up or down?"
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >You're so stupid you cannot tell the difference between turning something on and it working properly. One can only wonder how you can put your own socks on. Or is that why you married a Thai woman whom you claim doesn't want to live in America with large Thai populations.
>> >> >> Socks? Nobody wears socks with sandals.
>> >> >> As for my wife, I'm not claiming, she did visit the U.S, and she did
>> >> >> state that she would never want to live there as the people weren't
>> >> >> "nice".
>> >> >> As for the "large" Thai populations... well the U.S. Migration Policy
>> >> >> Institute has it that there are 239,942 Thai's living in the U.S. as
>> >> >> of 2011.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> As for you I can only repeat my previous comment that even a very
>> >> >> small child, or even a puppy dog, will learn if you slap it on the
>> >> >> arse and shout NO! when it misbehaves. But you've been slapped on the
>> >> >> arse, documented for at least 16 years, and you haven't learned a
>> >> >> thing.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I think the light switch may be too complicated for one of your mental
>> >> >> caliber.
>> >> >
>> >> >True. A light switch does have an ON and an OFF position. Depending on how you install it, the ON can be either up or down. Way too many decisions to be made and information to be analyzed for Tommy boy. He had better stick to toolbox carrying.
>> >> I once worked as an Electrical Supervisor on a project to maintain the
>> >> USAF base at Udorn Thailand. I sent a Thai crew out to wire a one room
>> >> addition to one of the Air Force's buildings and when the Air Force
>> >> Inspector checked the work he "gigged" us because one of the light
>> >> switches was "Installed upside down". So... I told the Thai Foreman to
>> >> go out and turn the switch the other way "up". He looked at me for a
>> >> moment and replied, "but the light works." (:-)
>> >> --
>> >> Cheers,
>> >>
>> >> John B.
>> >
>> >True. Just like on an outlet you can attach the white/negative wire to the gold/brass screw, and the black/positive wire to the silver screw. Outlet still works just fine.
>> Yup, alternating current works both ways (:-)
>>
>> By the way, in AC house wiring there is no plus and negative there is
>> a "hot" wire and a "Neutral" and sometimes a 3rd wire" ground".
>>
>> While the Neutral is usually grounded at the "entrance" to the
>> building this should not be assumed to be true as the system will work
>> whether grounded or not.
>
>So now you're an electrical engineer like Jeff. Why, what's next? Are you going to tell us that you worked for years as an electrician?

On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 15:33:13 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
<ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, June 30, 2022 at 9:15:58 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 4:02:25 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>> > On Wed, 29 Jun 2022 08:15:30 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> > <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > >On Tuesday, June 28, 2022 at 4:18:34 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>> > >> On Tue, 28 Jun 2022 07:52:13 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> > >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> >On Monday, June 27, 2022 at 7:35:07 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>> > >> >> On Mon, 27 Jun 2022 18:41:38 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> > >> >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> >On Sunday, June 26, 2022 at 5:04:19 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> > >> >> >> On Sunday, June 26, 2022 at 10:12:11 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> > >> >> >> > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 11:38:03 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> > >> >> >> > > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 8:24:58 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> > >> >> >> > > > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 10:56:08 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> > >> >> >> > > > > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 7:04:38 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> > >> >> >> > > > > > On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 2:08:53 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> > >> >> >> > > > > > > Well, I have been bothered by my Garmin 830 reporting "Laps" of 5 miles each. These are absolutely worthless but I have yet to discover a way of turning this off. When I flip the Laps notation "off" it still continues with this distraction.
>> > >> >> >> > > > > > >
>> > >> >> >> > > > > > > More serious is it turning off at the strangest moments and for no reason. Yesterday, on that 38 mile ride, it turned off after 21 miles. I think that there was a small indicator that showed it was off but not very noticeable until I reached the top of the climb and started down and got to fairly easy descent from the 12% top descent. This means that I cut 10 miles off of my 38 mile recording. Luckily I did this exact route a month ago and so could get the climb and length off of it. But the new Shamal wheels which had a remarkable effect on my flats speed didn't show any true average speed.
>> > >> >> >> > > > > > >
>> > >> >> >> > > > > > > This happened more commonly in the past but it had more or less stopped doing this with the last firmware update. Well, they updated it again and it looks like it is back.
>> > >> >> >> > > > > > >
>> > >> >> >> > > > > > > I was also having trouble with my 830 finding the speed/cadence sensor but I figured that one out - they have a class of Cadence sensor and another Speed/Cadence sensor. They are different and apparently have different identification codes. Once discovered, easily fixed.
>> > >> >> >> > > > > > >
>> > >> >> >> > > > > > > Now I have to watch for the unit shutting off for some reason. I think that occurs when I come to a stop for more than 10 seconds like when I stopped to take a leak along the road. The distance to that point is about correct for the stopped mileage.
>> > >> >> >> > > > > > The garminhas carried on with its piculiar behavior. I think that it was the last firmware update that did it in. The immediately followed that by yet another firmware update. So hopefully that wil correct the problem. It shows the route when you get to the end of the ride and connect it with Garmin Express, but it shows zero mileage for these sections. The last time the Garmin switched off at 5 miles into a 30 mile ride leaving me to guess at distances.
>> > >> >> >> > > > > That are strange problems. My brother uses an edge 830 for a couple of years now without those problems. He had issues when the unit came out but all that was solved by the first couple of updates. Garmin and software is not a great combination. Have you consulted the Garmin forum:
>> > >> >> >> > > > > https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fitness/cycling/f/edge-830
>> > >> >> >> > > > It appears that a lot of people are having trouble with either the same or related problems. Tomorrow I'll be taking anoter ride and start early and hope the wind and weather aren't too bad or hot. If it fails yet again after I've reset it, I'll have to call Service again. The last problem I had he sent me a non-released version of firmware that fixed all of the problems. I think I'll carry the 810 in my back pocket so that I don't have to guess at distances anymore. The 830 is smaller and lighter but DAMN are a lot of people having problems with it.
>> > >> >> >> > > The software engineers at Garmin are morons.
>> > >> >> >> > Well, one of the help line guys suggested that I disconnect the 830 from the old version 1 speed/cadence sensor and I did that running purely on GPS and it operated perfectly. I will try it again today and then change it over to the version 2 speed and cadence sensors which I think are different. If this works I will let the Garmen people know that they have a big fat bug sitting in the middle of their Version 1 sensor firmware.
>> > >> >> >> Again it operated perfectly so I will ad a version 2 Cadence and speed sensor and see it that fits the problem.
>> > >> >> >
>> > >> >> >In an attempt to hook up the Version 2 speed and cadence sensors, I discovered that the 830 acts as it all of the screens are locked. I cannot get into adding a sensor screen because pushing the 3 lines has absolutely no effect. Fooling around with the power button gets me into a power screen at the top of which is an item that says "Lock Screens" pushing that has no effect either, as does pushing the buttons below it saying "power off" or "go to sleep".
>> > >> >> >
>> > >> >> >If I turn the timer on, the timer starts running but it shows speed while sitting in my computer room. It you turn the timer off, it asks you if you want to save the recording. But the X for NO also doesn't work.
>> > >> >> >
>> > >> >> >Does anyone have any idea about how to get this to work?
>> > >> >> And thus speaks the chap with, by his own admission, 50 years of
>> > >> >> software engineering!
>> > >> >
>> > >> >Thus speaks a moron that knows absolutely nothing about firmware or the difference between it and software. But he can run his mouth off for things other than blowing off little Thai boys.
>> > >> Nice one Tommy, but you are the one who brags about all your
>> > >> experience designing exotic medical equipment and now you need help in
>> > >> turning on a simple electronic device that hundreds, probably
>> > >> thousands, of others use with no problems.
>> > >>
>> > >> Tell us Tommy, do you also have problems with light switches in your
>> > >> house? "Lets see.... is it up or down?"
>> > >
>> > >You're so stupid you cannot tell the difference between turning something on and it working properly. One can only wonder how you can put your own socks on. Or is that why you married a Thai woman whom you claim doesn't want to live in America with large Thai populations.
>> > Socks? Nobody wears socks with sandals.
>> > As for my wife, I'm not claiming, she did visit the U.S, and she did
>> > state that she would never want to live there as the people weren't
>> > "nice".
>> > As for the "large" Thai populations... well the U.S. Migration Policy
>> > Institute has it that there are 239,942 Thai's living in the U.S. as
>> > of 2011.
>> >
>> > As for you I can only repeat my previous comment that even a very
>> > small child, or even a puppy dog, will learn if you slap it on the
>> > arse and shout NO! when it misbehaves. But you've been slapped on the
>> > arse, documented for at least 16 years, and you haven't learned a
>> > thing.
>> >
>> > I think the light switch may be too complicated for one of your mental
>> > caliber.
>> So you're admitting you lied about you bringing your wife to the US and her not liking it. She of course preferred a Thai open air market with flies covering the produce rather than an air conditioned supermarket with food that people don't have to wonder if it will poison them or not.
>
>Tommy, you being a city boy who has no clue about where food comes from, I will tell you something. Lots of food is grown in the DIRT!!!!!! Yes that is right, the DIRT!!!!!!!!! And the animals we raise and slaughter and eat are also usually raised on dirt. Standing on the dirt. Not eating the dirt. But the food they eat is grown in the dirt. DIRT!!!!!!!!!!! And guess what Tommy? There are flies and bugs and all kinds of other things in this dirt!!!!!!!!! Or on the crops. Now when all the food is processed, it is usually kept reasonably clean. But I think the FDA has some rules for bug parts per millions thing or another. And human beings deal with germs and bacteria pretty well. I think there is some bacteria that live inside humans!!!!!!!!!!
>
>And Tommy, I suspect there are also open markets where organic, nature people sell their home grown vegetables in California. Usually Saturday mornings in downtown. Usually these markets are a big deal. Lots of people go there every week to buy wholesome food. Usually expensive.
>
>One more thing Tommy boy. Must have been last fall. I helped my Mom and brother pick up apples off a tree. Some of the apples were on the ground!!!!!!! Touching the grass!!!!!!!! Mom peeled them and cooked them and made apple pie and applesauce. Yummmmm. Dirty, filthy apples touching the earth!!!!!!! Some were picked directly off the tree too. But they were probably contaminated by the air from the nearby factories. We did this with pears too. I like pears.
>

On Thursday, June 30, 2022 at 8:06:25 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 15:33:13 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Thursday, June 30, 2022 at 9:15:58 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 4:02:25 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> >> > On Wed, 29 Jun 2022 08:15:30 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> >> > <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > >On Tuesday, June 28, 2022 at 4:18:34 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> >> > >> On Tue, 28 Jun 2022 07:52:13 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> >> > >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >> >On Monday, June 27, 2022 at 7:35:07 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> >> > >> >> On Mon, 27 Jun 2022 18:41:38 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> >> > >> >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> >On Sunday, June 26, 2022 at 5:04:19 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> > >> >> >> On Sunday, June 26, 2022 at 10:12:11 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> > >> >> >> > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 11:38:03 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >> > >> >> >> > > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 8:24:58 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> > >> >> >> > > > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 10:56:08 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >> > >> >> >> > > > > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 7:04:38 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 2:08:53 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > > Well, I have been bothered by my Garmin 830 reporting "Laps" of 5 miles each. These are absolutely worthless but I have yet to discover a way of turning this off. When I flip the Laps notation "off" it still continues with this distraction.
> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > >
> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > > More serious is it turning off at the strangest moments and for no reason. Yesterday, on that 38 mile ride, it turned off after 21 miles. I think that there was a small indicator that showed it was off but not very noticeable until I reached the top of the climb and started down and got to fairly easy descent from the 12% top descent. This means that I cut 10 miles off of my 38 mile recording. Luckily I did this exact route a month ago and so could get the climb and length off of it. But the new Shamal wheels which had a remarkable effect on my flats speed didn't show any true average speed.
> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > >
> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > > This happened more commonly in the past but it had more or less stopped doing this with the last firmware update. Well, they updated it again and it looks like it is back.
> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > >
> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > > I was also having trouble with my 830 finding the speed/cadence sensor but I figured that one out - they have a class of Cadence sensor and another Speed/Cadence sensor. They are different and apparently have different identification codes. Once discovered, easily fixed.
> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > >
> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > > Now I have to watch for the unit shutting off for some reason. I think that occurs when I come to a stop for more than 10 seconds like when I stopped to take a leak along the road. The distance to that point is about correct for the stopped mileage.
> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > The garminhas carried on with its piculiar behavior. I think that it was the last firmware update that did it in. The immediately followed that by yet another firmware update. So hopefully that wil correct the problem. It shows the route when you get to the end of the ride and connect it with Garmin Express, but it shows zero mileage for these sections. The last time the Garmin switched off at 5 miles into a 30 mile ride leaving me to guess at distances.
> >> > >> >> >> > > > > That are strange problems. My brother uses an edge 830 for a couple of years now without those problems. He had issues when the unit came out but all that was solved by the first couple of updates. Garmin and software is not a great combination. Have you consulted the Garmin forum:
> >> > >> >> >> > > > > https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fitness/cycling/f/edge-830
> >> > >> >> >> > > > It appears that a lot of people are having trouble with either the same or related problems. Tomorrow I'll be taking anoter ride and start early and hope the wind and weather aren't too bad or hot. If it fails yet again after I've reset it, I'll have to call Service again. The last problem I had he sent me a non-released version of firmware that fixed all of the problems. I think I'll carry the 810 in my back pocket so that I don't have to guess at distances anymore. The 830 is smaller and lighter but DAMN are a lot of people having problems with it.
> >> > >> >> >> > > The software engineers at Garmin are morons.
> >> > >> >> >> > Well, one of the help line guys suggested that I disconnect the 830 from the old version 1 speed/cadence sensor and I did that running purely on GPS and it operated perfectly. I will try it again today and then change it over to the version 2 speed and cadence sensors which I think are different. If this works I will let the Garmen people know that they have a big fat bug sitting in the middle of their Version 1 sensor firmware.
> >> > >> >> >> Again it operated perfectly so I will ad a version 2 Cadence and speed sensor and see it that fits the problem.
> >> > >> >> >
> >> > >> >> >In an attempt to hook up the Version 2 speed and cadence sensors, I discovered that the 830 acts as it all of the screens are locked. I cannot get into adding a sensor screen because pushing the 3 lines has absolutely no effect. Fooling around with the power button gets me into a power screen at the top of which is an item that says "Lock Screens" pushing that has no effect either, as does pushing the buttons below it saying "power off" or "go to sleep".
> >> > >> >> >
> >> > >> >> >If I turn the timer on, the timer starts running but it shows speed while sitting in my computer room. It you turn the timer off, it asks you if you want to save the recording. But the X for NO also doesn't work..
> >> > >> >> >
> >> > >> >> >Does anyone have any idea about how to get this to work?
> >> > >> >> And thus speaks the chap with, by his own admission, 50 years of
> >> > >> >> software engineering!
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> >Thus speaks a moron that knows absolutely nothing about firmware or the difference between it and software. But he can run his mouth off for things other than blowing off little Thai boys.
> >> > >> Nice one Tommy, but you are the one who brags about all your
> >> > >> experience designing exotic medical equipment and now you need help in
> >> > >> turning on a simple electronic device that hundreds, probably
> >> > >> thousands, of others use with no problems.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Tell us Tommy, do you also have problems with light switches in your
> >> > >> house? "Lets see.... is it up or down?"
> >> > >
> >> > >You're so stupid you cannot tell the difference between turning something on and it working properly. One can only wonder how you can put your own socks on. Or is that why you married a Thai woman whom you claim doesn't want to live in America with large Thai populations.
> >> > Socks? Nobody wears socks with sandals.
> >> > As for my wife, I'm not claiming, she did visit the U.S, and she did
> >> > state that she would never want to live there as the people weren't
> >> > "nice".
> >> > As for the "large" Thai populations... well the U.S. Migration Policy
> >> > Institute has it that there are 239,942 Thai's living in the U.S. as
> >> > of 2011.
> >> >
> >> > As for you I can only repeat my previous comment that even a very
> >> > small child, or even a puppy dog, will learn if you slap it on the
> >> > arse and shout NO! when it misbehaves. But you've been slapped on the
> >> > arse, documented for at least 16 years, and you haven't learned a
> >> > thing.
> >> >
> >> > I think the light switch may be too complicated for one of your mental
> >> > caliber.
> >> So you're admitting you lied about you bringing your wife to the US and her not liking it. She of course preferred a Thai open air market with flies covering the produce rather than an air conditioned supermarket with food that people don't have to wonder if it will poison them or not.
> >
> >Tommy, you being a city boy who has no clue about where food comes from, I will tell you something. Lots of food is grown in the DIRT!!!!!! Yes that is right, the DIRT!!!!!!!!! And the animals we raise and slaughter and eat are also usually raised on dirt. Standing on the dirt. Not eating the dirt. But the food they eat is grown in the dirt. DIRT!!!!!!!!!!! And guess what Tommy? There are flies and bugs and all kinds of other things in this dirt!!!!!!!!! Or on the crops. Now when all the food is processed, it is usually kept reasonably clean. But I think the FDA has some rules for bug parts per millions thing or another. And human beings deal with germs and bacteria pretty well. I think there is some bacteria that live inside humans!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> >And Tommy, I suspect there are also open markets where organic, nature people sell their home grown vegetables in California. Usually Saturday mornings in downtown. Usually these markets are a big deal. Lots of people go there every week to buy wholesome food. Usually expensive.
> >
> >One more thing Tommy boy. Must have been last fall. I helped my Mom and brother pick up apples off a tree. Some of the apples were on the ground!!!!!!! Touching the grass!!!!!!!! Mom peeled them and cooked them and made apple pie and applesauce. Yummmmm. Dirty, filthy apples touching the earth!!!!!!! Some were picked directly off the tree too. But they were probably contaminated by the air from the nearby factories. We did this with pears too. I like pears.
> >
> And even worse! Apple trees and the fruit are sprayed with noxious
> chemicals to protect them from bugs and such.
> --
> Cheers,
>
> John B.

On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 22:46:03 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
<ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, June 30, 2022 at 8:06:25 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>> On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 15:33:13 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Thursday, June 30, 2022 at 9:15:58 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >> On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 4:02:25 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>> >> > On Wed, 29 Jun 2022 08:15:30 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> >> > <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > >On Tuesday, June 28, 2022 at 4:18:34 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>> >> > >> On Tue, 28 Jun 2022 07:52:13 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> >> > >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> >On Monday, June 27, 2022 at 7:35:07 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>> >> > >> >> On Mon, 27 Jun 2022 18:41:38 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> >> > >> >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > >> >>
>> >> > >> >> >On Sunday, June 26, 2022 at 5:04:19 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >> > >> >> >> On Sunday, June 26, 2022 at 10:12:11 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >> > >> >> >> > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 11:38:03 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> >> > >> >> >> > > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 8:24:58 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >> > >> >> >> > > > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 10:56:08 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> >> > >> >> >> > > > > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 7:04:38 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 2:08:53 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > > Well, I have been bothered by my Garmin 830 reporting "Laps" of 5 miles each. These are absolutely worthless but I have yet to discover a way of turning this off. When I flip the Laps notation "off" it still continues with this distraction.
>> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > >
>> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > > More serious is it turning off at the strangest moments and for no reason. Yesterday, on that 38 mile ride, it turned off after 21 miles. I think that there was a small indicator that showed it was off but not very noticeable until I reached the top of the climb and started down and got to fairly easy descent from the 12% top descent. This means that I cut 10 miles off of my 38 mile recording. Luckily I did this exact route a month ago and so could get the climb and length off of it. But the new Shamal wheels which had a remarkable effect on my flats speed didn't show any true average speed.
>> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > >
>> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > > This happened more commonly in the past but it had more or less stopped doing this with the last firmware update. Well, they updated it again and it looks like it is back.
>> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > >
>> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > > I was also having trouble with my 830 finding the speed/cadence sensor but I figured that one out - they have a class of Cadence sensor and another Speed/Cadence sensor. They are different and apparently have different identification codes. Once discovered, easily fixed.
>> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > >
>> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > > Now I have to watch for the unit shutting off for some reason. I think that occurs when I come to a stop for more than 10 seconds like when I stopped to take a leak along the road. The distance to that point is about correct for the stopped mileage.
>> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > The garminhas carried on with its piculiar behavior. I think that it was the last firmware update that did it in. The immediately followed that by yet another firmware update. So hopefully that wil correct the problem. It shows the route when you get to the end of the ride and connect it with Garmin Express, but it shows zero mileage for these sections. The last time the Garmin switched off at 5 miles into a 30 mile ride leaving me to guess at distances.
>> >> > >> >> >> > > > > That are strange problems. My brother uses an edge 830 for a couple of years now without those problems. He had issues when the unit came out but all that was solved by the first couple of updates. Garmin and software is not a great combination. Have you consulted the Garmin forum:
>> >> > >> >> >> > > > > https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fitness/cycling/f/edge-830
>> >> > >> >> >> > > > It appears that a lot of people are having trouble with either the same or related problems. Tomorrow I'll be taking anoter ride and start early and hope the wind and weather aren't too bad or hot. If it fails yet again after I've reset it, I'll have to call Service again. The last problem I had he sent me a non-released version of firmware that fixed all of the problems. I think I'll carry the 810 in my back pocket so that I don't have to guess at distances anymore. The 830 is smaller and lighter but DAMN are a lot of people having problems with it.
>> >> > >> >> >> > > The software engineers at Garmin are morons.
>> >> > >> >> >> > Well, one of the help line guys suggested that I disconnect the 830 from the old version 1 speed/cadence sensor and I did that running purely on GPS and it operated perfectly. I will try it again today and then change it over to the version 2 speed and cadence sensors which I think are different. If this works I will let the Garmen people know that they have a big fat bug sitting in the middle of their Version 1 sensor firmware.
>> >> > >> >> >> Again it operated perfectly so I will ad a version 2 Cadence and speed sensor and see it that fits the problem.
>> >> > >> >> >
>> >> > >> >> >In an attempt to hook up the Version 2 speed and cadence sensors, I discovered that the 830 acts as it all of the screens are locked. I cannot get into adding a sensor screen because pushing the 3 lines has absolutely no effect. Fooling around with the power button gets me into a power screen at the top of which is an item that says "Lock Screens" pushing that has no effect either, as does pushing the buttons below it saying "power off" or "go to sleep".
>> >> > >> >> >
>> >> > >> >> >If I turn the timer on, the timer starts running but it shows speed while sitting in my computer room. It you turn the timer off, it asks you if you want to save the recording. But the X for NO also doesn't work.
>> >> > >> >> >
>> >> > >> >> >Does anyone have any idea about how to get this to work?
>> >> > >> >> And thus speaks the chap with, by his own admission, 50 years of
>> >> > >> >> software engineering!
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> >Thus speaks a moron that knows absolutely nothing about firmware or the difference between it and software. But he can run his mouth off for things other than blowing off little Thai boys.
>> >> > >> Nice one Tommy, but you are the one who brags about all your
>> >> > >> experience designing exotic medical equipment and now you need help in
>> >> > >> turning on a simple electronic device that hundreds, probably
>> >> > >> thousands, of others use with no problems.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> Tell us Tommy, do you also have problems with light switches in your
>> >> > >> house? "Lets see.... is it up or down?"
>> >> > >
>> >> > >You're so stupid you cannot tell the difference between turning something on and it working properly. One can only wonder how you can put your own socks on. Or is that why you married a Thai woman whom you claim doesn't want to live in America with large Thai populations.
>> >> > Socks? Nobody wears socks with sandals.
>> >> > As for my wife, I'm not claiming, she did visit the U.S, and she did
>> >> > state that she would never want to live there as the people weren't
>> >> > "nice".
>> >> > As for the "large" Thai populations... well the U.S. Migration Policy
>> >> > Institute has it that there are 239,942 Thai's living in the U.S. as
>> >> > of 2011.
>> >> >
>> >> > As for you I can only repeat my previous comment that even a very
>> >> > small child, or even a puppy dog, will learn if you slap it on the
>> >> > arse and shout NO! when it misbehaves. But you've been slapped on the
>> >> > arse, documented for at least 16 years, and you haven't learned a
>> >> > thing.
>> >> >
>> >> > I think the light switch may be too complicated for one of your mental
>> >> > caliber.
>> >> So you're admitting you lied about you bringing your wife to the US and her not liking it. She of course preferred a Thai open air market with flies covering the produce rather than an air conditioned supermarket with food that people don't have to wonder if it will poison them or not.
>> >
>> >Tommy, you being a city boy who has no clue about where food comes from, I will tell you something. Lots of food is grown in the DIRT!!!!!! Yes that is right, the DIRT!!!!!!!!! And the animals we raise and slaughter and eat are also usually raised on dirt. Standing on the dirt. Not eating the dirt. But the food they eat is grown in the dirt. DIRT!!!!!!!!!!! And guess what Tommy? There are flies and bugs and all kinds of other things in this dirt!!!!!!!!! Or on the crops. Now when all the food is processed, it is usually kept reasonably clean. But I think the FDA has some rules for bug parts per millions thing or another. And human beings deal with germs and bacteria pretty well. I think there is some bacteria that live inside humans!!!!!!!!!!
>> >
>> >And Tommy, I suspect there are also open markets where organic, nature people sell their home grown vegetables in California. Usually Saturday mornings in downtown. Usually these markets are a big deal. Lots of people go there every week to buy wholesome food. Usually expensive.
>> >
>> >One more thing Tommy boy. Must have been last fall. I helped my Mom and brother pick up apples off a tree. Some of the apples were on the ground!!!!!!! Touching the grass!!!!!!!! Mom peeled them and cooked them and made apple pie and applesauce. Yummmmm. Dirty, filthy apples touching the earth!!!!!!! Some were picked directly off the tree too. But they were probably contaminated by the air from the nearby factories. We did this with pears too. I like pears.
>> >
>> And even worse! Apple trees and the fruit are sprayed with noxious
>> chemicals to protect them from bugs and such.
>> --
>> Cheers,
>>
>> John B.
>
>I forgot to add this. I currently live in Iowa. Iowa is known for agriculture. Among other things. But agriculture is one of the big ones. Iowa grows LOTS of corn. Corn is used as animal feed. AND to make fructose. That sugar used in almost everything. Everything processed anyway. Food. So when Tommy boy drank his Coke today, it contained fructose likely from Iowa corn. Now back to that animal feed part about corn. Iowa grows lots of corn that is fed to livestock. Iowa is also a HUGE pig state. I believe Iowa raises more pigs than any other state in the USA. Hog confinements are everywhere. Every few miles you see and smell a hog confinement out in the country. Do you know what the hogs eat? Corn grown in Iowa. Know what else the hogs make, besides pork when they are slaughtered? Manure. Hog confinements make lots and lots of manure. Do you know what is done with that manure? It is spread on fields. Actually its injected, tilled into the dirt. So Tommy boy,
>when you drink your Coke with fructose, you are drinking hog sh-t. Or fructose from corn grown on fields fertilized with hog sh-t. Gosh, that Thailand open air market with flies doesn't sound too bad now.
>
>John, the apple and pear trees I am referring to, that we picked the fruit from. They were not sprayed with any chemicals. They are local trees in yards. Not commercial fruit tree farms. They were organic apple and pear trees.

On Thursday, June 30, 2022 at 11:29:57 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 22:46:03 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Thursday, June 30, 2022 at 8:06:25 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> >> On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 15:33:13 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> >> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Thursday, June 30, 2022 at 9:15:58 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> >> On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 4:02:25 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> >> >> > On Wed, 29 Jun 2022 08:15:30 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> >> >> > <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > >On Tuesday, June 28, 2022 at 4:18:34 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> >> >> > >> On Tue, 28 Jun 2022 07:52:13 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> >> >> > >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >> >On Monday, June 27, 2022 at 7:35:07 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> >> >> > >> >> On Mon, 27 Jun 2022 18:41:38 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> >> >> > >> >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> > >> >>
> >> >> > >> >> >On Sunday, June 26, 2022 at 5:04:19 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> >> > >> >> >> On Sunday, June 26, 2022 at 10:12:11 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> >> > >> >> >> > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 11:38:03 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >> >> > >> >> >> > > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 8:24:58 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> >> > >> >> >> > > > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 10:56:08 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 7:04:38 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 2:08:53 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > > Well, I have been bothered by my Garmin 830 reporting "Laps" of 5 miles each. These are absolutely worthless but I have yet to discover a way of turning this off. When I flip the Laps notation "off" it still continues with this distraction.
> >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > >
> >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > > More serious is it turning off at the strangest moments and for no reason. Yesterday, on that 38 mile ride, it turned off after 21 miles. I think that there was a small indicator that showed it was off but not very noticeable until I reached the top of the climb and started down and got to fairly easy descent from the 12% top descent. This means that I cut 10 miles off of my 38 mile recording. Luckily I did this exact route a month ago and so could get the climb and length off of it. But the new Shamal wheels which had a remarkable effect on my flats speed didn't show any true average speed.
> >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > >
> >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > > This happened more commonly in the past but it had more or less stopped doing this with the last firmware update. Well, they updated it again and it looks like it is back.
> >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > >
> >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > > I was also having trouble with my 830 finding the speed/cadence sensor but I figured that one out - they have a class of Cadence sensor and another Speed/Cadence sensor. They are different and apparently have different identification codes. Once discovered, easily fixed.
> >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > >
> >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > > Now I have to watch for the unit shutting off for some reason. I think that occurs when I come to a stop for more than 10 seconds like when I stopped to take a leak along the road. The distance to that point is about correct for the stopped mileage.
> >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > The garminhas carried on with its piculiar behavior. I think that it was the last firmware update that did it in. The immediately followed that by yet another firmware update. So hopefully that wil correct the problem. It shows the route when you get to the end of the ride and connect it with Garmin Express, but it shows zero mileage for these sections. The last time the Garmin switched off at 5 miles into a 30 mile ride leaving me to guess at distances.
> >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > That are strange problems. My brother uses an edge 830 for a couple of years now without those problems. He had issues when the unit came out but all that was solved by the first couple of updates. Garmin and software is not a great combination. Have you consulted the Garmin forum:
> >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fitness/cycling/f/edge-830
> >> >> > >> >> >> > > > It appears that a lot of people are having trouble with either the same or related problems. Tomorrow I'll be taking anoter ride and start early and hope the wind and weather aren't too bad or hot. If it fails yet again after I've reset it, I'll have to call Service again. The last problem I had he sent me a non-released version of firmware that fixed all of the problems. I think I'll carry the 810 in my back pocket so that I don't have to guess at distances anymore. The 830 is smaller and lighter but DAMN are a lot of people having problems with it.
> >> >> > >> >> >> > > The software engineers at Garmin are morons.
> >> >> > >> >> >> > Well, one of the help line guys suggested that I disconnect the 830 from the old version 1 speed/cadence sensor and I did that running purely on GPS and it operated perfectly. I will try it again today and then change it over to the version 2 speed and cadence sensors which I think are different. If this works I will let the Garmen people know that they have a big fat bug sitting in the middle of their Version 1 sensor firmware.
> >> >> > >> >> >> Again it operated perfectly so I will ad a version 2 Cadence and speed sensor and see it that fits the problem.
> >> >> > >> >> >
> >> >> > >> >> >In an attempt to hook up the Version 2 speed and cadence sensors, I discovered that the 830 acts as it all of the screens are locked. I cannot get into adding a sensor screen because pushing the 3 lines has absolutely no effect. Fooling around with the power button gets me into a power screen at the top of which is an item that says "Lock Screens" pushing that has no effect either, as does pushing the buttons below it saying "power off" or "go to sleep".
> >> >> > >> >> >
> >> >> > >> >> >If I turn the timer on, the timer starts running but it shows speed while sitting in my computer room. It you turn the timer off, it asks you if you want to save the recording. But the X for NO also doesn't work.
> >> >> > >> >> >
> >> >> > >> >> >Does anyone have any idea about how to get this to work?
> >> >> > >> >> And thus speaks the chap with, by his own admission, 50 years of
> >> >> > >> >> software engineering!
> >> >> > >> >
> >> >> > >> >Thus speaks a moron that knows absolutely nothing about firmware or the difference between it and software. But he can run his mouth off for things other than blowing off little Thai boys.
> >> >> > >> Nice one Tommy, but you are the one who brags about all your
> >> >> > >> experience designing exotic medical equipment and now you need help in
> >> >> > >> turning on a simple electronic device that hundreds, probably
> >> >> > >> thousands, of others use with no problems.
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >> Tell us Tommy, do you also have problems with light switches in your
> >> >> > >> house? "Lets see.... is it up or down?"
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >You're so stupid you cannot tell the difference between turning something on and it working properly. One can only wonder how you can put your own socks on. Or is that why you married a Thai woman whom you claim doesn't want to live in America with large Thai populations.
> >> >> > Socks? Nobody wears socks with sandals.
> >> >> > As for my wife, I'm not claiming, she did visit the U.S, and she did
> >> >> > state that she would never want to live there as the people weren't
> >> >> > "nice".
> >> >> > As for the "large" Thai populations... well the U.S. Migration Policy
> >> >> > Institute has it that there are 239,942 Thai's living in the U.S. as
> >> >> > of 2011.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > As for you I can only repeat my previous comment that even a very
> >> >> > small child, or even a puppy dog, will learn if you slap it on the
> >> >> > arse and shout NO! when it misbehaves. But you've been slapped on the
> >> >> > arse, documented for at least 16 years, and you haven't learned a
> >> >> > thing.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I think the light switch may be too complicated for one of your mental
> >> >> > caliber.
> >> >> So you're admitting you lied about you bringing your wife to the US and her not liking it. She of course preferred a Thai open air market with flies covering the produce rather than an air conditioned supermarket with food that people don't have to wonder if it will poison them or not.
> >> >
> >> >Tommy, you being a city boy who has no clue about where food comes from, I will tell you something. Lots of food is grown in the DIRT!!!!!! Yes that is right, the DIRT!!!!!!!!! And the animals we raise and slaughter and eat are also usually raised on dirt. Standing on the dirt. Not eating the dirt. But the food they eat is grown in the dirt. DIRT!!!!!!!!!!! And guess what Tommy? There are flies and bugs and all kinds of other things in this dirt!!!!!!!!! Or on the crops. Now when all the food is processed, it is usually kept reasonably clean. But I think the FDA has some rules for bug parts per millions thing or another. And human beings deal with germs and bacteria pretty well. I think there is some bacteria that live inside humans!!!!!!!!!!
> >> >
> >> >And Tommy, I suspect there are also open markets where organic, nature people sell their home grown vegetables in California. Usually Saturday mornings in downtown. Usually these markets are a big deal. Lots of people go there every week to buy wholesome food. Usually expensive.
> >> >
> >> >One more thing Tommy boy. Must have been last fall. I helped my Mom and brother pick up apples off a tree. Some of the apples were on the ground!!!!!!! Touching the grass!!!!!!!! Mom peeled them and cooked them and made apple pie and applesauce. Yummmmm. Dirty, filthy apples touching the earth!!!!!!! Some were picked directly off the tree too. But they were probably contaminated by the air from the nearby factories. We did this with pears too. I like pears.
> >> >
> >> And even worse! Apple trees and the fruit are sprayed with noxious
> >> chemicals to protect them from bugs and such.
> >> --
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> John B.
> >
> >I forgot to add this. I currently live in Iowa. Iowa is known for agriculture. Among other things. But agriculture is one of the big ones. Iowa grows LOTS of corn. Corn is used as animal feed. AND to make fructose. That sugar used in almost everything. Everything processed anyway. Food. So when Tommy boy drank his Coke today, it contained fructose likely from Iowa corn. Now back to that animal feed part about corn. Iowa grows lots of corn that is fed to livestock. Iowa is also a HUGE pig state. I believe Iowa raises more pigs than any other state in the USA. Hog confinements are everywhere. Every few miles you see and smell a hog confinement out in the country. Do you know what the hogs eat? Corn grown in Iowa. Know what else the hogs make, besides pork when they are slaughtered? Manure. Hog confinements make lots and lots of manure. Do you know what is done with that manure? It is spread on fields. Actually its injected, tilled into the dirt. So Tommy boy,
> >when you drink your Coke with fructose, you are drinking hog sh-t. Or fructose from corn grown on fields fertilized with hog sh-t. Gosh, that Thailand open air market with flies doesn't sound too bad now.
> >
> >John, the apple and pear trees I am referring to, that we picked the fruit from. They were not sprayed with any chemicals. They are local trees in yards. Not commercial fruit tree farms. They were organic apple and pear trees.
> Errr... an organic tree (:-)
>
> I grew up in a non chemical, well pretty much non chemical, society, I
> think I remember tomatoes being sprayed to kill tomato worms, but you
> could eat apples right off the tree, or off the ground for that
> matter. Sort of wipe them off on your shirt and gobble them.
>
> As for manure... I wonder what Tommy thinks is done with the tons and
> tons of manure from chicken cattle, pigs, or even humans - in some
> countries - that is produced annually. In 1894 there were some 11,000
> Hanson cabs and several thousand horse drawn "busses" in London ove5
> 50,000 horses used for transportation and on the average a horse
> produces 15 - 35 pounds of manure a day - depending on size. 50,000 x
> (say) 25 lbs = 625 tons. A day! One newspaper estimated that in 50
> years every street in London would be 9 feet deep in horse manure.

On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 9:18:55 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, June 30, 2022 at 11:29:57 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> > On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 22:46:03 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> > <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >On Thursday, June 30, 2022 at 8:06:25 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> > >> On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 15:33:13 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> > >> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> >On Thursday, June 30, 2022 at 9:15:58 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >> >> On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 4:02:25 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> > >> >> > On Wed, 29 Jun 2022 08:15:30 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> > >> >> > <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > >On Tuesday, June 28, 2022 at 4:18:34 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> > >> >> > >> On Tue, 28 Jun 2022 07:52:13 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> > >> >> > >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> >> > >>
> > >> >> > >> >On Monday, June 27, 2022 at 7:35:07 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> > >> >> > >> >> On Mon, 27 Jun 2022 18:41:38 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> > >> >> > >> >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> >> > >> >>
> > >> >> > >> >> >On Sunday, June 26, 2022 at 5:04:19 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >> >> > >> >> >> On Sunday, June 26, 2022 at 10:12:11 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >> >> > >> >> >> > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 11:38:03 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 8:24:58 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 10:56:08 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 7:04:38 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 2:08:53 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > > Well, I have been bothered by my Garmin 830 reporting "Laps" of 5 miles each. These are absolutely worthless but I have yet to discover a way of turning this off. When I flip the Laps notation "off" it still continues with this distraction.
> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > >
> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > > More serious is it turning off at the strangest moments and for no reason. Yesterday, on that 38 mile ride, it turned off after 21 miles. I think that there was a small indicator that showed it was off but not very noticeable until I reached the top of the climb and started down and got to fairly easy descent from the 12% top descent. This means that I cut 10 miles off of my 38 mile recording. Luckily I did this exact route a month ago and so could get the climb and length off of it. But the new Shamal wheels which had a remarkable effect on my flats speed didn't show any true average speed.
> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > >
> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > > This happened more commonly in the past but it had more or less stopped doing this with the last firmware update. Well, they updated it again and it looks like it is back.
> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > >
> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > > I was also having trouble with my 830 finding the speed/cadence sensor but I figured that one out - they have a class of Cadence sensor and another Speed/Cadence sensor. They are different and apparently have different identification codes. Once discovered, easily fixed.
> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > >
> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > > Now I have to watch for the unit shutting off for some reason. I think that occurs when I come to a stop for more than 10 seconds like when I stopped to take a leak along the road. The distance to that point is about correct for the stopped mileage.
> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > The garminhas carried on with its piculiar behavior. I think that it was the last firmware update that did it in. The immediately followed that by yet another firmware update. So hopefully that wil correct the problem. It shows the route when you get to the end of the ride and connect it with Garmin Express, but it shows zero mileage for these sections. The last time the Garmin switched off at 5 miles into a 30 mile ride leaving me to guess at distances.
> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > That are strange problems. My brother uses an edge 830 for a couple of years now without those problems. He had issues when the unit came out but all that was solved by the first couple of updates.. Garmin and software is not a great combination. Have you consulted the Garmin forum:
> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fitness/cycling/f/edge-830
> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > It appears that a lot of people are having trouble with either the same or related problems. Tomorrow I'll be taking anoter ride and start early and hope the wind and weather aren't too bad or hot. If it fails yet again after I've reset it, I'll have to call Service again. The last problem I had he sent me a non-released version of firmware that fixed all of the problems. I think I'll carry the 810 in my back pocket so that I don't have to guess at distances anymore. The 830 is smaller and lighter but DAMN are a lot of people having problems with it.
> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > The software engineers at Garmin are morons.
> > >> >> > >> >> >> > Well, one of the help line guys suggested that I disconnect the 830 from the old version 1 speed/cadence sensor and I did that running purely on GPS and it operated perfectly. I will try it again today and then change it over to the version 2 speed and cadence sensors which I think are different. If this works I will let the Garmen people know that they have a big fat bug sitting in the middle of their Version 1 sensor firmware.
> > >> >> > >> >> >> Again it operated perfectly so I will ad a version 2 Cadence and speed sensor and see it that fits the problem.
> > >> >> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > >> >> >In an attempt to hook up the Version 2 speed and cadence sensors, I discovered that the 830 acts as it all of the screens are locked. I cannot get into adding a sensor screen because pushing the 3 lines has absolutely no effect. Fooling around with the power button gets me into a power screen at the top of which is an item that says "Lock Screens" pushing that has no effect either, as does pushing the buttons below it saying "power off" or "go to sleep".
> > >> >> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > >> >> >If I turn the timer on, the timer starts running but it shows speed while sitting in my computer room. It you turn the timer off, it asks you if you want to save the recording. But the X for NO also doesn't work.
> > >> >> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > >> >> >Does anyone have any idea about how to get this to work?
> > >> >> > >> >> And thus speaks the chap with, by his own admission, 50 years of
> > >> >> > >> >> software engineering!
> > >> >> > >> >
> > >> >> > >> >Thus speaks a moron that knows absolutely nothing about firmware or the difference between it and software. But he can run his mouth off for things other than blowing off little Thai boys.
> > >> >> > >> Nice one Tommy, but you are the one who brags about all your
> > >> >> > >> experience designing exotic medical equipment and now you need help in
> > >> >> > >> turning on a simple electronic device that hundreds, probably
> > >> >> > >> thousands, of others use with no problems.
> > >> >> > >>
> > >> >> > >> Tell us Tommy, do you also have problems with light switches in your
> > >> >> > >> house? "Lets see.... is it up or down?"
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > >You're so stupid you cannot tell the difference between turning something on and it working properly. One can only wonder how you can put your own socks on. Or is that why you married a Thai woman whom you claim doesn't want to live in America with large Thai populations.
> > >> >> > Socks? Nobody wears socks with sandals.
> > >> >> > As for my wife, I'm not claiming, she did visit the U.S, and she did
> > >> >> > state that she would never want to live there as the people weren't
> > >> >> > "nice".
> > >> >> > As for the "large" Thai populations... well the U.S. Migration Policy
> > >> >> > Institute has it that there are 239,942 Thai's living in the U.S. as
> > >> >> > of 2011.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > As for you I can only repeat my previous comment that even a very
> > >> >> > small child, or even a puppy dog, will learn if you slap it on the
> > >> >> > arse and shout NO! when it misbehaves. But you've been slapped on the
> > >> >> > arse, documented for at least 16 years, and you haven't learned a
> > >> >> > thing.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > I think the light switch may be too complicated for one of your mental
> > >> >> > caliber.
> > >> >> So you're admitting you lied about you bringing your wife to the US and her not liking it. She of course preferred a Thai open air market with flies covering the produce rather than an air conditioned supermarket with food that people don't have to wonder if it will poison them or not.
> > >> >
> > >> >Tommy, you being a city boy who has no clue about where food comes from, I will tell you something. Lots of food is grown in the DIRT!!!!!! Yes that is right, the DIRT!!!!!!!!! And the animals we raise and slaughter and eat are also usually raised on dirt. Standing on the dirt. Not eating the dirt. But the food they eat is grown in the dirt. DIRT!!!!!!!!!!! And guess what Tommy? There are flies and bugs and all kinds of other things in this dirt!!!!!!!!! Or on the crops. Now when all the food is processed, it is usually kept reasonably clean. But I think the FDA has some rules for bug parts per millions thing or another. And human beings deal with germs and bacteria pretty well. I think there is some bacteria that live inside humans!!!!!!!!!!
> > >> >
> > >> >And Tommy, I suspect there are also open markets where organic, nature people sell their home grown vegetables in California. Usually Saturday mornings in downtown. Usually these markets are a big deal. Lots of people go there every week to buy wholesome food. Usually expensive.
> > >> >
> > >> >One more thing Tommy boy. Must have been last fall. I helped my Mom and brother pick up apples off a tree. Some of the apples were on the ground!!!!!!! Touching the grass!!!!!!!! Mom peeled them and cooked them and made apple pie and applesauce. Yummmmm. Dirty, filthy apples touching the earth!!!!!!! Some were picked directly off the tree too. But they were probably contaminated by the air from the nearby factories. We did this with pears too. I like pears.
> > >> >
> > >> And even worse! Apple trees and the fruit are sprayed with noxious
> > >> chemicals to protect them from bugs and such.
> > >> --
> > >> Cheers,
> > >>
> > >> John B.
> > >
> > >I forgot to add this. I currently live in Iowa. Iowa is known for agriculture. Among other things. But agriculture is one of the big ones. Iowa grows LOTS of corn. Corn is used as animal feed. AND to make fructose. That sugar used in almost everything. Everything processed anyway. Food. So when Tommy boy drank his Coke today, it contained fructose likely from Iowa corn. Now back to that animal feed part about corn. Iowa grows lots of corn that is fed to livestock. Iowa is also a HUGE pig state. I believe Iowa raises more pigs than any other state in the USA. Hog confinements are everywhere. Every few miles you see and smell a hog confinement out in the country. Do you know what the hogs eat? Corn grown in Iowa. Know what else the hogs make, besides pork when they are slaughtered? Manure. Hog confinements make lots and lots of manure. Do you know what is done with that manure? It is spread on fields. Actually its injected, tilled into the dirt. So Tommy boy,
> > >when you drink your Coke with fructose, you are drinking hog sh-t. Or fructose from corn grown on fields fertilized with hog sh-t. Gosh, that Thailand open air market with flies doesn't sound too bad now.
> > >
> > >John, the apple and pear trees I am referring to, that we picked the fruit from. They were not sprayed with any chemicals. They are local trees in yards. Not commercial fruit tree farms. They were organic apple and pear trees.
> > Errr... an organic tree (:-)
> >
> > I grew up in a non chemical, well pretty much non chemical, society, I
> > think I remember tomatoes being sprayed to kill tomato worms, but you
> > could eat apples right off the tree, or off the ground for that
> > matter. Sort of wipe them off on your shirt and gobble them.
> >
> > As for manure... I wonder what Tommy thinks is done with the tons and
> > tons of manure from chicken cattle, pigs, or even humans - in some
> > countries - that is produced annually. In 1894 there were some 11,000
> > Hanson cabs and several thousand horse drawn "busses" in London ove5
> > 50,000 horses used for transportation and on the average a horse
> > produces 15 - 35 pounds of manure a day - depending on size. 50,000 x
> > (say) 25 lbs = 625 tons. A day! One newspaper estimated that in 50
> > years every street in London would be 9 feet deep in horse manure.
> I grew up when things were still delivered by horse and cart and John with all of that vast knowledge he has of London is going to tell us about manure when he is a pile of horseshit. It must certainly be wonderful to know about everything when you've never been anywhere

On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 07:18:52 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, June 30, 2022 at 11:29:57 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>> On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 22:46:03 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Thursday, June 30, 2022 at 8:06:25 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>> >> On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 15:33:13 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>> >> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On Thursday, June 30, 2022 at 9:15:58 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >> >> On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 4:02:25 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>> >> >> > On Wed, 29 Jun 2022 08:15:30 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> >> >> > <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > >On Tuesday, June 28, 2022 at 4:18:34 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>> >> >> > >> On Tue, 28 Jun 2022 07:52:13 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> >> >> > >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> > >>
>> >> >> > >> >On Monday, June 27, 2022 at 7:35:07 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>> >> >> > >> >> On Mon, 27 Jun 2022 18:41:38 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> >> >> > >> >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> > >> >>
>> >> >> > >> >> >On Sunday, June 26, 2022 at 5:04:19 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >> >> > >> >> >> On Sunday, June 26, 2022 at 10:12:11 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >> >> > >> >> >> > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 11:38:03 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> >> >> > >> >> >> > > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 8:24:58 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >> >> > >> >> >> > > > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 10:56:08 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 7:04:38 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 2:08:53 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > > Well, I have been bothered by my Garmin 830 reporting "Laps" of 5 miles each. These are absolutely worthless but I have yet to discover a way of turning this off. When I flip the Laps notation "off" it still continues with this distraction.
>> >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > >
>> >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > > More serious is it turning off at the strangest moments and for no reason. Yesterday, on that 38 mile ride, it turned off after 21 miles. I think that there was a small indicator that showed it was off but not very noticeable until I reached the top of the climb and started down and got to fairly easy descent from the 12% top descent. This means that I cut 10 miles off of my 38 mile recording. Luckily I did this exact route a month ago and so could get the climb and length off of it. But the new Shamal wheels which had a remarkable effect on my flats speed didn't show any true average speed.
>> >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > >
>> >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > > This happened more commonly in the past but it had more or less stopped doing this with the last firmware update. Well, they updated it again and it looks like it is back.
>> >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > >
>> >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > > I was also having trouble with my 830 finding the speed/cadence sensor but I figured that one out - they have a class of Cadence sensor and another Speed/Cadence sensor. They are different and apparently have different identification codes. Once discovered, easily fixed.
>> >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > >
>> >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > > Now I have to watch for the unit shutting off for some reason. I think that occurs when I come to a stop for more than 10 seconds like when I stopped to take a leak along the road. The distance to that point is about correct for the stopped mileage.
>> >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > The garminhas carried on with its piculiar behavior. I think that it was the last firmware update that did it in. The immediately followed that by yet another firmware update. So hopefully that wil correct the problem. It shows the route when you get to the end of the ride and connect it with Garmin Express, but it shows zero mileage for these sections. The last time the Garmin switched off at 5 miles into a 30 mile ride leaving me to guess at distances.
>> >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > That are strange problems. My brother uses an edge 830 for a couple of years now without those problems. He had issues when the unit came out but all that was solved by the first couple of updates. Garmin and software is not a great combination. Have you consulted the Garmin forum:
>> >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fitness/cycling/f/edge-830
>> >> >> > >> >> >> > > > It appears that a lot of people are having trouble with either the same or related problems. Tomorrow I'll be taking anoter ride and start early and hope the wind and weather aren't too bad or hot. If it fails yet again after I've reset it, I'll have to call Service again. The last problem I had he sent me a non-released version of firmware that fixed all of the problems. I think I'll carry the 810 in my back pocket so that I don't have to guess at distances anymore. The 830 is smaller and lighter but DAMN are a lot of people having problems with it.
>> >> >> > >> >> >> > > The software engineers at Garmin are morons.
>> >> >> > >> >> >> > Well, one of the help line guys suggested that I disconnect the 830 from the old version 1 speed/cadence sensor and I did that running purely on GPS and it operated perfectly. I will try it again today and then change it over to the version 2 speed and cadence sensors which I think are different. If this works I will let the Garmen people know that they have a big fat bug sitting in the middle of their Version 1 sensor firmware.
>> >> >> > >> >> >> Again it operated perfectly so I will ad a version 2 Cadence and speed sensor and see it that fits the problem.
>> >> >> > >> >> >
>> >> >> > >> >> >In an attempt to hook up the Version 2 speed and cadence sensors, I discovered that the 830 acts as it all of the screens are locked. I cannot get into adding a sensor screen because pushing the 3 lines has absolutely no effect. Fooling around with the power button gets me into a power screen at the top of which is an item that says "Lock Screens" pushing that has no effect either, as does pushing the buttons below it saying "power off" or "go to sleep".
>> >> >> > >> >> >
>> >> >> > >> >> >If I turn the timer on, the timer starts running but it shows speed while sitting in my computer room. It you turn the timer off, it asks you if you want to save the recording. But the X for NO also doesn't work.
>> >> >> > >> >> >
>> >> >> > >> >> >Does anyone have any idea about how to get this to work?
>> >> >> > >> >> And thus speaks the chap with, by his own admission, 50 years of
>> >> >> > >> >> software engineering!
>> >> >> > >> >
>> >> >> > >> >Thus speaks a moron that knows absolutely nothing about firmware or the difference between it and software. But he can run his mouth off for things other than blowing off little Thai boys.
>> >> >> > >> Nice one Tommy, but you are the one who brags about all your
>> >> >> > >> experience designing exotic medical equipment and now you need help in
>> >> >> > >> turning on a simple electronic device that hundreds, probably
>> >> >> > >> thousands, of others use with no problems.
>> >> >> > >>
>> >> >> > >> Tell us Tommy, do you also have problems with light switches in your
>> >> >> > >> house? "Lets see.... is it up or down?"
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > >You're so stupid you cannot tell the difference between turning something on and it working properly. One can only wonder how you can put your own socks on. Or is that why you married a Thai woman whom you claim doesn't want to live in America with large Thai populations.
>> >> >> > Socks? Nobody wears socks with sandals.
>> >> >> > As for my wife, I'm not claiming, she did visit the U.S, and she did
>> >> >> > state that she would never want to live there as the people weren't
>> >> >> > "nice".
>> >> >> > As for the "large" Thai populations... well the U.S. Migration Policy
>> >> >> > Institute has it that there are 239,942 Thai's living in the U.S. as
>> >> >> > of 2011.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > As for you I can only repeat my previous comment that even a very
>> >> >> > small child, or even a puppy dog, will learn if you slap it on the
>> >> >> > arse and shout NO! when it misbehaves. But you've been slapped on the
>> >> >> > arse, documented for at least 16 years, and you haven't learned a
>> >> >> > thing.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > I think the light switch may be too complicated for one of your mental
>> >> >> > caliber.
>> >> >> So you're admitting you lied about you bringing your wife to the US and her not liking it. She of course preferred a Thai open air market with flies covering the produce rather than an air conditioned supermarket with food that people don't have to wonder if it will poison them or not.
>> >> >
>> >> >Tommy, you being a city boy who has no clue about where food comes from, I will tell you something. Lots of food is grown in the DIRT!!!!!! Yes that is right, the DIRT!!!!!!!!! And the animals we raise and slaughter and eat are also usually raised on dirt. Standing on the dirt. Not eating the dirt. But the food they eat is grown in the dirt. DIRT!!!!!!!!!!! And guess what Tommy? There are flies and bugs and all kinds of other things in this dirt!!!!!!!!! Or on the crops. Now when all the food is processed, it is usually kept reasonably clean. But I think the FDA has some rules for bug parts per millions thing or another. And human beings deal with germs and bacteria pretty well. I think there is some bacteria that live inside humans!!!!!!!!!!
>> >> >
>> >> >And Tommy, I suspect there are also open markets where organic, nature people sell their home grown vegetables in California. Usually Saturday mornings in downtown. Usually these markets are a big deal. Lots of people go there every week to buy wholesome food. Usually expensive.
>> >> >
>> >> >One more thing Tommy boy. Must have been last fall. I helped my Mom and brother pick up apples off a tree. Some of the apples were on the ground!!!!!!! Touching the grass!!!!!!!! Mom peeled them and cooked them and made apple pie and applesauce. Yummmmm. Dirty, filthy apples touching the earth!!!!!!! Some were picked directly off the tree too. But they were probably contaminated by the air from the nearby factories. We did this with pears too. I like pears.
>> >> >
>> >> And even worse! Apple trees and the fruit are sprayed with noxious
>> >> chemicals to protect them from bugs and such.
>> >> --
>> >> Cheers,
>> >>
>> >> John B.
>> >
>> >I forgot to add this. I currently live in Iowa. Iowa is known for agriculture. Among other things. But agriculture is one of the big ones. Iowa grows LOTS of corn. Corn is used as animal feed. AND to make fructose. That sugar used in almost everything. Everything processed anyway. Food. So when Tommy boy drank his Coke today, it contained fructose likely from Iowa corn. Now back to that animal feed part about corn. Iowa grows lots of corn that is fed to livestock. Iowa is also a HUGE pig state. I believe Iowa raises more pigs than any other state in the USA. Hog confinements are everywhere. Every few miles you see and smell a hog confinement out in the country. Do you know what the hogs eat? Corn grown in Iowa. Know what else the hogs make, besides pork when they are slaughtered? Manure. Hog confinements make lots and lots of manure. Do you know what is done with that manure? It is spread on fields. Actually its injected, tilled into the dirt. So Tommy boy,
>> >when you drink your Coke with fructose, you are drinking hog sh-t. Or fructose from corn grown on fields fertilized with hog sh-t. Gosh, that Thailand open air market with flies doesn't sound too bad now.
>> >
>> >John, the apple and pear trees I am referring to, that we picked the fruit from. They were not sprayed with any chemicals. They are local trees in yards. Not commercial fruit tree farms. They were organic apple and pear trees.
>> Errr... an organic tree (:-)
>>
>> I grew up in a non chemical, well pretty much non chemical, society, I
>> think I remember tomatoes being sprayed to kill tomato worms, but you
>> could eat apples right off the tree, or off the ground for that
>> matter. Sort of wipe them off on your shirt and gobble them.
>>
>> As for manure... I wonder what Tommy thinks is done with the tons and
>> tons of manure from chicken cattle, pigs, or even humans - in some
>> countries - that is produced annually. In 1894 there were some 11,000
>> Hanson cabs and several thousand horse drawn "busses" in London ove5
>> 50,000 horses used for transportation and on the average a horse
>> produces 15 - 35 pounds of manure a day - depending on size. 50,000 x
>> (say) 25 lbs = 625 tons. A day! One newspaper estimated that in 50
>> years every street in London would be 9 feet deep in horse manure.
>
>I grew up when things were still delivered by horse and cart and John with all of that vast knowledge he has of London is going to tell us about manure when he is a pile of horseshit. It must certainly be wonderful to know about everything when you've never been anywhere or done anything and the peak of your life was being a crew chief on an obsolete propeller drive aircraft.

On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 15:20:20 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
<ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 9:18:55 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Thursday, June 30, 2022 at 11:29:57 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>> > On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 22:46:03 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>> > <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > >On Thursday, June 30, 2022 at 8:06:25 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>> > >> On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 15:33:13 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>> > >> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> >On Thursday, June 30, 2022 at 9:15:58 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > >> >> On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 4:02:25 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>> > >> >> > On Wed, 29 Jun 2022 08:15:30 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> > >> >> > <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >> >> >
>> > >> >> > >On Tuesday, June 28, 2022 at 4:18:34 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>> > >> >> > >> On Tue, 28 Jun 2022 07:52:13 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> > >> >> > >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >> >> > >>
>> > >> >> > >> >On Monday, June 27, 2022 at 7:35:07 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>> > >> >> > >> >> On Mon, 27 Jun 2022 18:41:38 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> > >> >> > >> >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >> >> > >> >>
>> > >> >> > >> >> >On Sunday, June 26, 2022 at 5:04:19 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> > >> >> > >> >> >> On Sunday, June 26, 2022 at 10:12:11 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> > >> >> > >> >> >> > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 11:38:03 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 8:24:58 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 10:56:08 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 7:04:38 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 2:08:53 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > > Well, I have been bothered by my Garmin 830 reporting "Laps" of 5 miles each. These are absolutely worthless but I have yet to discover a way of turning this off. When I flip the Laps notation "off" it still continues with this distraction.
>> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > >
>> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > > More serious is it turning off at the strangest moments and for no reason. Yesterday, on that 38 mile ride, it turned off after 21 miles. I think that there was a small indicator that showed it was off but not very noticeable until I reached the top of the climb and started down and got to fairly easy descent from the 12% top descent. This means that I cut 10 miles off of my 38 mile recording. Luckily I did this exact route a month ago and so could get the climb and length off of it. But the new Shamal wheels which had a remarkable effect on my flats speed didn't show any true average speed.
>> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > >
>> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > > This happened more commonly in the past but it had more or less stopped doing this with the last firmware update. Well, they updated it again and it looks like it is back.
>> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > >
>> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > > I was also having trouble with my 830 finding the speed/cadence sensor but I figured that one out - they have a class of Cadence sensor and another Speed/Cadence sensor. They are different and apparently have different identification codes. Once discovered, easily fixed.
>> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > >
>> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > > Now I have to watch for the unit shutting off for some reason. I think that occurs when I come to a stop for more than 10 seconds like when I stopped to take a leak along the road. The distance to that point is about correct for the stopped mileage.
>> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > The garminhas carried on with its piculiar behavior. I think that it was the last firmware update that did it in. The immediately followed that by yet another firmware update. So hopefully that wil correct the problem. It shows the route when you get to the end of the ride and connect it with Garmin Express, but it shows zero mileage for these sections. The last time the Garmin switched off at 5 miles into a 30 mile ride leaving me to guess at distances.
>> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > That are strange problems. My brother uses an edge 830 for a couple of years now without those problems. He had issues when the unit came out but all that was solved by the first couple of updates. Garmin and software is not a great combination. Have you consulted the Garmin forum:
>> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fitness/cycling/f/edge-830
>> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > It appears that a lot of people are having trouble with either the same or related problems. Tomorrow I'll be taking anoter ride and start early and hope the wind and weather aren't too bad or hot. If it fails yet again after I've reset it, I'll have to call Service again. The last problem I had he sent me a non-released version of firmware that fixed all of the problems. I think I'll carry the 810 in my back pocket so that I don't have to guess at distances anymore. The 830 is smaller and lighter but DAMN are a lot of people having problems with it.
>> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > The software engineers at Garmin are morons.
>> > >> >> > >> >> >> > Well, one of the help line guys suggested that I disconnect the 830 from the old version 1 speed/cadence sensor and I did that running purely on GPS and it operated perfectly. I will try it again today and then change it over to the version 2 speed and cadence sensors which I think are different. If this works I will let the Garmen people know that they have a big fat bug sitting in the middle of their Version 1 sensor firmware.
>> > >> >> > >> >> >> Again it operated perfectly so I will ad a version 2 Cadence and speed sensor and see it that fits the problem.
>> > >> >> > >> >> >
>> > >> >> > >> >> >In an attempt to hook up the Version 2 speed and cadence sensors, I discovered that the 830 acts as it all of the screens are locked. I cannot get into adding a sensor screen because pushing the 3 lines has absolutely no effect. Fooling around with the power button gets me into a power screen at the top of which is an item that says "Lock Screens" pushing that has no effect either, as does pushing the buttons below it saying "power off" or "go to sleep".
>> > >> >> > >> >> >
>> > >> >> > >> >> >If I turn the timer on, the timer starts running but it shows speed while sitting in my computer room. It you turn the timer off, it asks you if you want to save the recording. But the X for NO also doesn't work.
>> > >> >> > >> >> >
>> > >> >> > >> >> >Does anyone have any idea about how to get this to work?
>> > >> >> > >> >> And thus speaks the chap with, by his own admission, 50 years of
>> > >> >> > >> >> software engineering!
>> > >> >> > >> >
>> > >> >> > >> >Thus speaks a moron that knows absolutely nothing about firmware or the difference between it and software. But he can run his mouth off for things other than blowing off little Thai boys.
>> > >> >> > >> Nice one Tommy, but you are the one who brags about all your
>> > >> >> > >> experience designing exotic medical equipment and now you need help in
>> > >> >> > >> turning on a simple electronic device that hundreds, probably
>> > >> >> > >> thousands, of others use with no problems.
>> > >> >> > >>
>> > >> >> > >> Tell us Tommy, do you also have problems with light switches in your
>> > >> >> > >> house? "Lets see.... is it up or down?"
>> > >> >> > >
>> > >> >> > >You're so stupid you cannot tell the difference between turning something on and it working properly. One can only wonder how you can put your own socks on. Or is that why you married a Thai woman whom you claim doesn't want to live in America with large Thai populations.
>> > >> >> > Socks? Nobody wears socks with sandals.
>> > >> >> > As for my wife, I'm not claiming, she did visit the U.S, and she did
>> > >> >> > state that she would never want to live there as the people weren't
>> > >> >> > "nice".
>> > >> >> > As for the "large" Thai populations... well the U.S. Migration Policy
>> > >> >> > Institute has it that there are 239,942 Thai's living in the U.S. as
>> > >> >> > of 2011.
>> > >> >> >
>> > >> >> > As for you I can only repeat my previous comment that even a very
>> > >> >> > small child, or even a puppy dog, will learn if you slap it on the
>> > >> >> > arse and shout NO! when it misbehaves. But you've been slapped on the
>> > >> >> > arse, documented for at least 16 years, and you haven't learned a
>> > >> >> > thing.
>> > >> >> >
>> > >> >> > I think the light switch may be too complicated for one of your mental
>> > >> >> > caliber.
>> > >> >> So you're admitting you lied about you bringing your wife to the US and her not liking it. She of course preferred a Thai open air market with flies covering the produce rather than an air conditioned supermarket with food that people don't have to wonder if it will poison them or not.
>> > >> >
>> > >> >Tommy, you being a city boy who has no clue about where food comes from, I will tell you something. Lots of food is grown in the DIRT!!!!!! Yes that is right, the DIRT!!!!!!!!! And the animals we raise and slaughter and eat are also usually raised on dirt. Standing on the dirt. Not eating the dirt. But the food they eat is grown in the dirt. DIRT!!!!!!!!!!! And guess what Tommy? There are flies and bugs and all kinds of other things in this dirt!!!!!!!!! Or on the crops. Now when all the food is processed, it is usually kept reasonably clean. But I think the FDA has some rules for bug parts per millions thing or another. And human beings deal with germs and bacteria pretty well. I think there is some bacteria that live inside humans!!!!!!!!!!
>> > >> >
>> > >> >And Tommy, I suspect there are also open markets where organic, nature people sell their home grown vegetables in California. Usually Saturday mornings in downtown. Usually these markets are a big deal. Lots of people go there every week to buy wholesome food. Usually expensive.
>> > >> >
>> > >> >One more thing Tommy boy. Must have been last fall. I helped my Mom and brother pick up apples off a tree. Some of the apples were on the ground!!!!!!! Touching the grass!!!!!!!! Mom peeled them and cooked them and made apple pie and applesauce. Yummmmm. Dirty, filthy apples touching the earth!!!!!!! Some were picked directly off the tree too. But they were probably contaminated by the air from the nearby factories. We did this with pears too. I like pears.
>> > >> >
>> > >> And even worse! Apple trees and the fruit are sprayed with noxious
>> > >> chemicals to protect them from bugs and such.
>> > >> --
>> > >> Cheers,
>> > >>
>> > >> John B.
>> > >
>> > >I forgot to add this. I currently live in Iowa. Iowa is known for agriculture. Among other things. But agriculture is one of the big ones. Iowa grows LOTS of corn. Corn is used as animal feed. AND to make fructose. That sugar used in almost everything. Everything processed anyway. Food. So when Tommy boy drank his Coke today, it contained fructose likely from Iowa corn. Now back to that animal feed part about corn. Iowa grows lots of corn that is fed to livestock. Iowa is also a HUGE pig state. I believe Iowa raises more pigs than any other state in the USA. Hog confinements are everywhere. Every few miles you see and smell a hog confinement out in the country. Do you know what the hogs eat? Corn grown in Iowa. Know what else the hogs make, besides pork when they are slaughtered? Manure. Hog confinements make lots and lots of manure. Do you know what is done with that manure? It is spread on fields. Actually its injected, tilled into the dirt. So Tommy boy,
>> > >when you drink your Coke with fructose, you are drinking hog sh-t. Or fructose from corn grown on fields fertilized with hog sh-t. Gosh, that Thailand open air market with flies doesn't sound too bad now.
>> > >
>> > >John, the apple and pear trees I am referring to, that we picked the fruit from. They were not sprayed with any chemicals. They are local trees in yards. Not commercial fruit tree farms. They were organic apple and pear trees.
>> > Errr... an organic tree (:-)
>> >
>> > I grew up in a non chemical, well pretty much non chemical, society, I
>> > think I remember tomatoes being sprayed to kill tomato worms, but you
>> > could eat apples right off the tree, or off the ground for that
>> > matter. Sort of wipe them off on your shirt and gobble them.
>> >
>> > As for manure... I wonder what Tommy thinks is done with the tons and
>> > tons of manure from chicken cattle, pigs, or even humans - in some
>> > countries - that is produced annually. In 1894 there were some 11,000
>> > Hanson cabs and several thousand horse drawn "busses" in London ove5
>> > 50,000 horses used for transportation and on the average a horse
>> > produces 15 - 35 pounds of manure a day - depending on size. 50,000 x
>> > (say) 25 lbs = 625 tons. A day! One newspaper estimated that in 50
>> > years every street in London would be 9 feet deep in horse manure.
>> I grew up when things were still delivered by horse and cart and John with all of that vast knowledge he has of London is going to tell us about manure when he is a pile of horseshit. It must certainly be wonderful to know about everything when you've never been anywhere
>
>One more inexplicable statement from Tommy boy. John grew up in the Northeast. Vermont
or New Hampshire. And he has been living in Thailand for the past 3-4
decades. Yet you say he has never been anywhere? As for you Tommy,
you were born and raised in Oakland. Supposedly traveled to Asia
during your claimed Air Force service. And have worked and lived in
the Oakland area ever since. Compared to John, you have never been
anywhere times two. You are still right where you started. Tommy,
you need to leave home. Go, explore, live.

On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 7:56:28 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 15:20:20 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 9:18:55 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Thursday, June 30, 2022 at 11:29:57 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> >> > On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 22:46:03 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> >> > <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > >On Thursday, June 30, 2022 at 8:06:25 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> >> > >> On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 15:33:13 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> >> > >> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >> >On Thursday, June 30, 2022 at 9:15:58 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> > >> >> On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 4:02:25 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> >> > >> >> > On Wed, 29 Jun 2022 08:15:30 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> >> > >> >> > <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > >> >> >
> >> > >> >> > >On Tuesday, June 28, 2022 at 4:18:34 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> >> > >> >> > >> On Tue, 28 Jun 2022 07:52:13 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> >> > >> >> > >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > >> >> > >>
> >> > >> >> > >> >On Monday, June 27, 2022 at 7:35:07 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> >> > >> >> > >> >> On Mon, 27 Jun 2022 18:41:38 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> >> > >> >> > >> >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > >> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >On Sunday, June 26, 2022 at 5:04:19 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> On Sunday, June 26, 2022 at 10:12:11 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 11:38:03 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 8:24:58 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 10:56:08 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 7:04:38 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 2:08:53 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > > Well, I have been bothered by my Garmin 830 reporting "Laps" of 5 miles each. These are absolutely worthless but I have yet to discover a way of turning this off. When I flip the Laps notation "off" it still continues with this distraction.
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > >
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > > More serious is it turning off at the strangest moments and for no reason. Yesterday, on that 38 mile ride, it turned off after 21 miles. I think that there was a small indicator that showed it was off but not very noticeable until I reached the top of the climb and started down and got to fairly easy descent from the 12% top descent. This means that I cut 10 miles off of my 38 mile recording. Luckily I did this exact route a month ago and so could get the climb and length off of it. But the new Shamal wheels which had a remarkable effect on my flats speed didn't show any true average speed.
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > >
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > > This happened more commonly in the past but it had more or less stopped doing this with the last firmware update. Well, they updated it again and it looks like it is back.
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > >
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > > I was also having trouble with my 830 finding the speed/cadence sensor but I figured that one out - they have a class of Cadence sensor and another Speed/Cadence sensor. They are different and apparently have different identification codes. Once discovered, easily fixed.
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > >
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > > Now I have to watch for the unit shutting off for some reason. I think that occurs when I come to a stop for more than 10 seconds like when I stopped to take a leak along the road. The distance to that point is about correct for the stopped mileage.
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > The garminhas carried on with its piculiar behavior. I think that it was the last firmware update that did it in. The immediately followed that by yet another firmware update. So hopefully that wil correct the problem. It shows the route when you get to the end of the ride and connect it with Garmin Express, but it shows zero mileage for these sections. The last time the Garmin switched off at 5 miles into a 30 mile ride leaving me to guess at distances.
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > That are strange problems. My brother uses an edge 830 for a couple of years now without those problems. He had issues when the unit came out but all that was solved by the first couple of updates. Garmin and software is not a great combination. Have you consulted the Garmin forum:
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fitness/cycling/f/edge-830
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > It appears that a lot of people are having trouble with either the same or related problems. Tomorrow I'll be taking anoter ride and start early and hope the wind and weather aren't too bad or hot. If it fails yet again after I've reset it, I'll have to call Service again. The last problem I had he sent me a non-released version of firmware that fixed all of the problems. I think I'll carry the 810 in my back pocket so that I don't have to guess at distances anymore. The 830 is smaller and lighter but DAMN are a lot of people having problems with it.
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > The software engineers at Garmin are morons.
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > Well, one of the help line guys suggested that I disconnect the 830 from the old version 1 speed/cadence sensor and I did that running purely on GPS and it operated perfectly. I will try it again today and then change it over to the version 2 speed and cadence sensors which I think are different. If this works I will let the Garmen people know that they have a big fat bug sitting in the middle of their Version 1 sensor firmware.
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> Again it operated perfectly so I will ad a version 2 Cadence and speed sensor and see it that fits the problem.
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >In an attempt to hook up the Version 2 speed and cadence sensors, I discovered that the 830 acts as it all of the screens are locked. I cannot get into adding a sensor screen because pushing the 3 lines has absolutely no effect. Fooling around with the power button gets me into a power screen at the top of which is an item that says "Lock Screens" pushing that has no effect either, as does pushing the buttons below it saying "power off" or "go to sleep".
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >If I turn the timer on, the timer starts running but it shows speed while sitting in my computer room. It you turn the timer off, it asks you if you want to save the recording. But the X for NO also doesn't work.
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >Does anyone have any idea about how to get this to work?
> >> > >> >> > >> >> And thus speaks the chap with, by his own admission, 50 years of
> >> > >> >> > >> >> software engineering!
> >> > >> >> > >> >
> >> > >> >> > >> >Thus speaks a moron that knows absolutely nothing about firmware or the difference between it and software. But he can run his mouth off for things other than blowing off little Thai boys.
> >> > >> >> > >> Nice one Tommy, but you are the one who brags about all your
> >> > >> >> > >> experience designing exotic medical equipment and now you need help in
> >> > >> >> > >> turning on a simple electronic device that hundreds, probably
> >> > >> >> > >> thousands, of others use with no problems.
> >> > >> >> > >>
> >> > >> >> > >> Tell us Tommy, do you also have problems with light switches in your
> >> > >> >> > >> house? "Lets see.... is it up or down?"
> >> > >> >> > >
> >> > >> >> > >You're so stupid you cannot tell the difference between turning something on and it working properly. One can only wonder how you can put your own socks on. Or is that why you married a Thai woman whom you claim doesn't want to live in America with large Thai populations.
> >> > >> >> > Socks? Nobody wears socks with sandals.
> >> > >> >> > As for my wife, I'm not claiming, she did visit the U.S, and she did
> >> > >> >> > state that she would never want to live there as the people weren't
> >> > >> >> > "nice".
> >> > >> >> > As for the "large" Thai populations... well the U.S. Migration Policy
> >> > >> >> > Institute has it that there are 239,942 Thai's living in the U.S. as
> >> > >> >> > of 2011.
> >> > >> >> >
> >> > >> >> > As for you I can only repeat my previous comment that even a very
> >> > >> >> > small child, or even a puppy dog, will learn if you slap it on the
> >> > >> >> > arse and shout NO! when it misbehaves. But you've been slapped on the
> >> > >> >> > arse, documented for at least 16 years, and you haven't learned a
> >> > >> >> > thing.
> >> > >> >> >
> >> > >> >> > I think the light switch may be too complicated for one of your mental
> >> > >> >> > caliber.
> >> > >> >> So you're admitting you lied about you bringing your wife to the US and her not liking it. She of course preferred a Thai open air market with flies covering the produce rather than an air conditioned supermarket with food that people don't have to wonder if it will poison them or not.
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> >Tommy, you being a city boy who has no clue about where food comes from, I will tell you something. Lots of food is grown in the DIRT!!!!!! Yes that is right, the DIRT!!!!!!!!! And the animals we raise and slaughter and eat are also usually raised on dirt. Standing on the dirt. Not eating the dirt. But the food they eat is grown in the dirt. DIRT!!!!!!!!!!! And guess what Tommy? There are flies and bugs and all kinds of other things in this dirt!!!!!!!!! Or on the crops. Now when all the food is processed, it is usually kept reasonably clean. But I think the FDA has some rules for bug parts per millions thing or another. And human beings deal with germs and bacteria pretty well. I think there is some bacteria that live inside humans!!!!!!!!!!
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> >And Tommy, I suspect there are also open markets where organic, nature people sell their home grown vegetables in California. Usually Saturday mornings in downtown. Usually these markets are a big deal. Lots of people go there every week to buy wholesome food. Usually expensive.
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> >One more thing Tommy boy. Must have been last fall. I helped my Mom and brother pick up apples off a tree. Some of the apples were on the ground!!!!!!! Touching the grass!!!!!!!! Mom peeled them and cooked them and made apple pie and applesauce. Yummmmm. Dirty, filthy apples touching the earth!!!!!!! Some were picked directly off the tree too. But they were probably contaminated by the air from the nearby factories. We did this with pears too. I like pears.
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> And even worse! Apple trees and the fruit are sprayed with noxious
> >> > >> chemicals to protect them from bugs and such.
> >> > >> --
> >> > >> Cheers,
> >> > >>
> >> > >> John B.
> >> > >
> >> > >I forgot to add this. I currently live in Iowa. Iowa is known for agriculture. Among other things. But agriculture is one of the big ones. Iowa grows LOTS of corn. Corn is used as animal feed. AND to make fructose. That sugar used in almost everything. Everything processed anyway. Food. So when Tommy boy drank his Coke today, it contained fructose likely from Iowa corn. Now back to that animal feed part about corn. Iowa grows lots of corn that is fed to livestock. Iowa is also a HUGE pig state. I believe Iowa raises more pigs than any other state in the USA. Hog confinements are everywhere. Every few miles you see and smell a hog confinement out in the country. Do you know what the hogs eat? Corn grown in Iowa. Know what else the hogs make, besides pork when they are slaughtered? Manure. Hog confinements make lots and lots of manure. Do you know what is done with that manure? It is spread on fields. Actually its injected, tilled into the dirt. So Tommy boy,
> >> > >when you drink your Coke with fructose, you are drinking hog sh-t. Or fructose from corn grown on fields fertilized with hog sh-t. Gosh, that Thailand open air market with flies doesn't sound too bad now.
> >> > >
> >> > >John, the apple and pear trees I am referring to, that we picked the fruit from. They were not sprayed with any chemicals. They are local trees in yards. Not commercial fruit tree farms. They were organic apple and pear trees.
> >> > Errr... an organic tree (:-)
> >> >
> >> > I grew up in a non chemical, well pretty much non chemical, society, I
> >> > think I remember tomatoes being sprayed to kill tomato worms, but you
> >> > could eat apples right off the tree, or off the ground for that
> >> > matter. Sort of wipe them off on your shirt and gobble them.
> >> >
> >> > As for manure... I wonder what Tommy thinks is done with the tons and
> >> > tons of manure from chicken cattle, pigs, or even humans - in some
> >> > countries - that is produced annually. In 1894 there were some 11,000
> >> > Hanson cabs and several thousand horse drawn "busses" in London ove5
> >> > 50,000 horses used for transportation and on the average a horse
> >> > produces 15 - 35 pounds of manure a day - depending on size. 50,000 x
> >> > (say) 25 lbs = 625 tons. A day! One newspaper estimated that in 50
> >> > years every street in London would be 9 feet deep in horse manure.
> >> I grew up when things were still delivered by horse and cart and John with all of that vast knowledge he has of London is going to tell us about manure when he is a pile of horseshit. It must certainly be wonderful to know about everything when you've never been anywhere
> >
> >One more inexplicable statement from Tommy boy. John grew up in the Northeast. Vermont
> or New Hampshire. And he has been living in Thailand for the past 3-4
> decades. Yet you say he has never been anywhere? As for you Tommy,
> you were born and raised in Oakland. Supposedly traveled to Asia
> during your claimed Air Force service. And have worked and lived in
> the Oakland area ever since. Compared to John, you have never been
> anywhere times two. You are still right where you started. Tommy,
> you need to leave home. Go, explore, live.
> Actually it is very arguable whether Tommy ever reached "Asia" as from
> his tales he was on Guam for a few months.... some 2,524 Km from Tokyo
> and 3,932 km from Vietnam.
>
> As for me (:-) Well, U.S., Japan, Vietnam, Singapore, Indonesia,
> Thailand,
> (:-)
> --
> Cheers,
>
> John B.

On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 21:01:28 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
<ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 7:56:28 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 15:20:20 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 9:18:55 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >> On Thursday, June 30, 2022 at 11:29:57 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>> >> > On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 22:46:03 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>> >> > <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > >On Thursday, June 30, 2022 at 8:06:25 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>> >> > >> On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 15:33:13 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>> >> > >> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> >On Thursday, June 30, 2022 at 9:15:58 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >> > >> >> On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 4:02:25 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>> >> > >> >> > On Wed, 29 Jun 2022 08:15:30 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> >> > >> >> > <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > >> >> >
>> >> > >> >> > >On Tuesday, June 28, 2022 at 4:18:34 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>> >> > >> >> > >> On Tue, 28 Jun 2022 07:52:13 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> >> > >> >> > >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > >> >> > >>
>> >> > >> >> > >> >On Monday, June 27, 2022 at 7:35:07 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> On Mon, 27 Jun 2022 18:41:38 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > >> >> > >> >>
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >On Sunday, June 26, 2022 at 5:04:19 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> On Sunday, June 26, 2022 at 10:12:11 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 11:38:03 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 8:24:58 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 10:56:08 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 7:04:38 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 2:08:53 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > > Well, I have been bothered by my Garmin 830 reporting "Laps" of 5 miles each. These are absolutely worthless but I have yet to discover a way of turning this off. When I flip the Laps notation "off" it still continues with this distraction.
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > >
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > > More serious is it turning off at the strangest moments and for no reason. Yesterday, on that 38 mile ride, it turned off after 21 miles. I think that there was a small indicator that showed it was off but not very noticeable until I reached the top of the climb and started down and got to fairly easy descent from the 12% top descent. This means that I cut 10 miles off of my 38 mile recording. Luckily I did this exact route a month ago and so could get the climb and length off of it. But the new Shamal wheels which had a remarkable effect on my flats speed didn't show any true average speed.
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > >
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > > This happened more commonly in the past but it had more or less stopped doing this with the last firmware update. Well, they updated it again and it looks like it is back.
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > >
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > > I was also having trouble with my 830 finding the speed/cadence sensor but I figured that one out - they have a class of Cadence sensor and another Speed/Cadence sensor. They are different and apparently have different identification codes. Once discovered, easily fixed.
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > >
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > > Now I have to watch for the unit shutting off for some reason. I think that occurs when I come to a stop for more than 10 seconds like when I stopped to take a leak along the road. The distance to that point is about correct for the stopped mileage.
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > The garminhas carried on with its piculiar behavior. I think that it was the last firmware update that did it in. The immediately followed that by yet another firmware update. So hopefully that wil correct the problem. It shows the route when you get to the end of the ride and connect it with Garmin Express, but it shows zero mileage for these sections. The last time the Garmin switched off at 5 miles into a 30 mile ride leaving me to guess at distances.
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > That are strange problems. My brother uses an edge 830 for a couple of years now without those problems. He had issues when the unit came out but all that was solved by the first couple of updates. Garmin and software is not a great combination. Have you consulted the Garmin forum:
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fitness/cycling/f/edge-830
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > It appears that a lot of people are having trouble with either the same or related problems. Tomorrow I'll be taking anoter ride and start early and hope the wind and weather aren't too bad or hot. If it fails yet again after I've reset it, I'll have to call Service again. The last problem I had he sent me a non-released version of firmware that fixed all of the problems. I think I'll carry the 810 in my back pocket so that I don't have to guess at distances anymore. The 830 is smaller and lighter but DAMN are a lot of people having problems with it.
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > The software engineers at Garmin are morons.
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > Well, one of the help line guys suggested that I disconnect the 830 from the old version 1 speed/cadence sensor and I did that running purely on GPS and it operated perfectly. I will try it again today and then change it over to the version 2 speed and cadence sensors which I think are different. If this works I will let the Garmen people know that they have a big fat bug sitting in the middle of their Version 1 sensor firmware.
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> Again it operated perfectly so I will ad a version 2 Cadence and speed sensor and see it that fits the problem.
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >In an attempt to hook up the Version 2 speed and cadence sensors, I discovered that the 830 acts as it all of the screens are locked. I cannot get into adding a sensor screen because pushing the 3 lines has absolutely no effect. Fooling around with the power button gets me into a power screen at the top of which is an item that says "Lock Screens" pushing that has no effect either, as does pushing the buttons below it saying "power off" or "go to sleep".
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >If I turn the timer on, the timer starts running but it shows speed while sitting in my computer room. It you turn the timer off, it asks you if you want to save the recording. But the X for NO also doesn't work.
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >Does anyone have any idea about how to get this to work?
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> And thus speaks the chap with, by his own admission, 50 years of
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> software engineering!
>> >> > >> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> >> > >> >Thus speaks a moron that knows absolutely nothing about firmware or the difference between it and software. But he can run his mouth off for things other than blowing off little Thai boys.
>> >> > >> >> > >> Nice one Tommy, but you are the one who brags about all your
>> >> > >> >> > >> experience designing exotic medical equipment and now you need help in
>> >> > >> >> > >> turning on a simple electronic device that hundreds, probably
>> >> > >> >> > >> thousands, of others use with no problems.
>> >> > >> >> > >>
>> >> > >> >> > >> Tell us Tommy, do you also have problems with light switches in your
>> >> > >> >> > >> house? "Lets see.... is it up or down?"
>> >> > >> >> > >
>> >> > >> >> > >You're so stupid you cannot tell the difference between turning something on and it working properly. One can only wonder how you can put your own socks on. Or is that why you married a Thai woman whom you claim doesn't want to live in America with large Thai populations.
>> >> > >> >> > Socks? Nobody wears socks with sandals.
>> >> > >> >> > As for my wife, I'm not claiming, she did visit the U.S, and she did
>> >> > >> >> > state that she would never want to live there as the people weren't
>> >> > >> >> > "nice".
>> >> > >> >> > As for the "large" Thai populations... well the U.S. Migration Policy
>> >> > >> >> > Institute has it that there are 239,942 Thai's living in the U.S. as
>> >> > >> >> > of 2011.
>> >> > >> >> >
>> >> > >> >> > As for you I can only repeat my previous comment that even a very
>> >> > >> >> > small child, or even a puppy dog, will learn if you slap it on the
>> >> > >> >> > arse and shout NO! when it misbehaves. But you've been slapped on the
>> >> > >> >> > arse, documented for at least 16 years, and you haven't learned a
>> >> > >> >> > thing.
>> >> > >> >> >
>> >> > >> >> > I think the light switch may be too complicated for one of your mental
>> >> > >> >> > caliber.
>> >> > >> >> So you're admitting you lied about you bringing your wife to the US and her not liking it. She of course preferred a Thai open air market with flies covering the produce rather than an air conditioned supermarket with food that people don't have to wonder if it will poison them or not.
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> >Tommy, you being a city boy who has no clue about where food comes from, I will tell you something. Lots of food is grown in the DIRT!!!!!! Yes that is right, the DIRT!!!!!!!!! And the animals we raise and slaughter and eat are also usually raised on dirt. Standing on the dirt. Not eating the dirt. But the food they eat is grown in the dirt. DIRT!!!!!!!!!!! And guess what Tommy? There are flies and bugs and all kinds of other things in this dirt!!!!!!!!! Or on the crops. Now when all the food is processed, it is usually kept reasonably clean. But I think the FDA has some rules for bug parts per millions thing or another. And human beings deal with germs and bacteria pretty well. I think there is some bacteria that live inside humans!!!!!!!!!!
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> >And Tommy, I suspect there are also open markets where organic, nature people sell their home grown vegetables in California. Usually Saturday mornings in downtown. Usually these markets are a big deal. Lots of people go there every week to buy wholesome food. Usually expensive.
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> >One more thing Tommy boy. Must have been last fall. I helped my Mom and brother pick up apples off a tree. Some of the apples were on the ground!!!!!!! Touching the grass!!!!!!!! Mom peeled them and cooked them and made apple pie and applesauce. Yummmmm. Dirty, filthy apples touching the earth!!!!!!! Some were picked directly off the tree too. But they were probably contaminated by the air from the nearby factories. We did this with pears too. I like pears.
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> And even worse! Apple trees and the fruit are sprayed with noxious
>> >> > >> chemicals to protect them from bugs and such.
>> >> > >> --
>> >> > >> Cheers,
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> John B.
>> >> > >
>> >> > >I forgot to add this. I currently live in Iowa. Iowa is known for agriculture. Among other things. But agriculture is one of the big ones. Iowa grows LOTS of corn. Corn is used as animal feed. AND to make fructose. That sugar used in almost everything. Everything processed anyway. Food. So when Tommy boy drank his Coke today, it contained fructose likely from Iowa corn. Now back to that animal feed part about corn. Iowa grows lots of corn that is fed to livestock. Iowa is also a HUGE pig state. I believe Iowa raises more pigs than any other state in the USA. Hog confinements are everywhere. Every few miles you see and smell a hog confinement out in the country. Do you know what the hogs eat? Corn grown in Iowa. Know what else the hogs make, besides pork when they are slaughtered? Manure. Hog confinements make lots and lots of manure. Do you know what is done with that manure? It is spread on fields. Actually its injected, tilled into the dirt. So Tommy boy,
>> >> > >when you drink your Coke with fructose, you are drinking hog sh-t. Or fructose from corn grown on fields fertilized with hog sh-t. Gosh, that Thailand open air market with flies doesn't sound too bad now.
>> >> > >
>> >> > >John, the apple and pear trees I am referring to, that we picked the fruit from. They were not sprayed with any chemicals. They are local trees in yards. Not commercial fruit tree farms. They were organic apple and pear trees.
>> >> > Errr... an organic tree (:-)
>> >> >
>> >> > I grew up in a non chemical, well pretty much non chemical, society, I
>> >> > think I remember tomatoes being sprayed to kill tomato worms, but you
>> >> > could eat apples right off the tree, or off the ground for that
>> >> > matter. Sort of wipe them off on your shirt and gobble them.
>> >> >
>> >> > As for manure... I wonder what Tommy thinks is done with the tons and
>> >> > tons of manure from chicken cattle, pigs, or even humans - in some
>> >> > countries - that is produced annually. In 1894 there were some 11,000
>> >> > Hanson cabs and several thousand horse drawn "busses" in London ove5
>> >> > 50,000 horses used for transportation and on the average a horse
>> >> > produces 15 - 35 pounds of manure a day - depending on size. 50,000 x
>> >> > (say) 25 lbs = 625 tons. A day! One newspaper estimated that in 50
>> >> > years every street in London would be 9 feet deep in horse manure.
>> >> I grew up when things were still delivered by horse and cart and John with all of that vast knowledge he has of London is going to tell us about manure when he is a pile of horseshit. It must certainly be wonderful to know about everything when you've never been anywhere
>> >
>> >One more inexplicable statement from Tommy boy. John grew up in the Northeast. Vermont
>> or New Hampshire. And he has been living in Thailand for the past 3-4
>> decades. Yet you say he has never been anywhere? As for you Tommy,
>> you were born and raised in Oakland. Supposedly traveled to Asia
>> during your claimed Air Force service. And have worked and lived in
>> the Oakland area ever since. Compared to John, you have never been
>> anywhere times two. You are still right where you started. Tommy,
>> you need to leave home. Go, explore, live.
>> Actually it is very arguable whether Tommy ever reached "Asia" as from
>> his tales he was on Guam for a few months.... some 2,524 Km from Tokyo
>> and 3,932 km from Vietnam.
>>
>> As for me (:-) Well, U.S., Japan, Vietnam, Singapore, Indonesia,
>> Thailand,
>> (:-)
>> --
>> Cheers,
>>
>> John B.
>
>My mistake. I was assuming incorrectly that any and all islands in the Pacific west of Hawaii is Asia. Probably not. But John are you forgetting Tommy boy's latest claims to have been on a bombing flight to North Vietnam. Guessing he was one of the gunners or bomb dropper, or maybe the co-pilot. Tommy's talents and abilities are endless.

On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 5:56:28 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 15:20:20 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 9:18:55 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Thursday, June 30, 2022 at 11:29:57 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> >> > On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 22:46:03 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> >> > <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > >On Thursday, June 30, 2022 at 8:06:25 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> >> > >> On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 15:33:13 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> >> > >> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >> >On Thursday, June 30, 2022 at 9:15:58 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> > >> >> On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 4:02:25 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> >> > >> >> > On Wed, 29 Jun 2022 08:15:30 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> >> > >> >> > <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > >> >> >
> >> > >> >> > >On Tuesday, June 28, 2022 at 4:18:34 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> >> > >> >> > >> On Tue, 28 Jun 2022 07:52:13 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> >> > >> >> > >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > >> >> > >>
> >> > >> >> > >> >On Monday, June 27, 2022 at 7:35:07 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> >> > >> >> > >> >> On Mon, 27 Jun 2022 18:41:38 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> >> > >> >> > >> >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > >> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >On Sunday, June 26, 2022 at 5:04:19 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> On Sunday, June 26, 2022 at 10:12:11 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 11:38:03 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 8:24:58 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 10:56:08 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 7:04:38 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 2:08:53 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > > Well, I have been bothered by my Garmin 830 reporting "Laps" of 5 miles each. These are absolutely worthless but I have yet to discover a way of turning this off. When I flip the Laps notation "off" it still continues with this distraction.
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > >
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > > More serious is it turning off at the strangest moments and for no reason. Yesterday, on that 38 mile ride, it turned off after 21 miles. I think that there was a small indicator that showed it was off but not very noticeable until I reached the top of the climb and started down and got to fairly easy descent from the 12% top descent. This means that I cut 10 miles off of my 38 mile recording. Luckily I did this exact route a month ago and so could get the climb and length off of it. But the new Shamal wheels which had a remarkable effect on my flats speed didn't show any true average speed.
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > >
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > > This happened more commonly in the past but it had more or less stopped doing this with the last firmware update. Well, they updated it again and it looks like it is back.
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > >
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > > I was also having trouble with my 830 finding the speed/cadence sensor but I figured that one out - they have a class of Cadence sensor and another Speed/Cadence sensor. They are different and apparently have different identification codes. Once discovered, easily fixed.
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > >
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > > Now I have to watch for the unit shutting off for some reason. I think that occurs when I come to a stop for more than 10 seconds like when I stopped to take a leak along the road. The distance to that point is about correct for the stopped mileage.
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > The garminhas carried on with its piculiar behavior. I think that it was the last firmware update that did it in. The immediately followed that by yet another firmware update. So hopefully that wil correct the problem. It shows the route when you get to the end of the ride and connect it with Garmin Express, but it shows zero mileage for these sections. The last time the Garmin switched off at 5 miles into a 30 mile ride leaving me to guess at distances.
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > That are strange problems. My brother uses an edge 830 for a couple of years now without those problems. He had issues when the unit came out but all that was solved by the first couple of updates. Garmin and software is not a great combination. Have you consulted the Garmin forum:
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fitness/cycling/f/edge-830
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > It appears that a lot of people are having trouble with either the same or related problems. Tomorrow I'll be taking anoter ride and start early and hope the wind and weather aren't too bad or hot. If it fails yet again after I've reset it, I'll have to call Service again. The last problem I had he sent me a non-released version of firmware that fixed all of the problems. I think I'll carry the 810 in my back pocket so that I don't have to guess at distances anymore. The 830 is smaller and lighter but DAMN are a lot of people having problems with it.
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > The software engineers at Garmin are morons.
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > Well, one of the help line guys suggested that I disconnect the 830 from the old version 1 speed/cadence sensor and I did that running purely on GPS and it operated perfectly. I will try it again today and then change it over to the version 2 speed and cadence sensors which I think are different. If this works I will let the Garmen people know that they have a big fat bug sitting in the middle of their Version 1 sensor firmware.
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> Again it operated perfectly so I will ad a version 2 Cadence and speed sensor and see it that fits the problem.
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >In an attempt to hook up the Version 2 speed and cadence sensors, I discovered that the 830 acts as it all of the screens are locked. I cannot get into adding a sensor screen because pushing the 3 lines has absolutely no effect. Fooling around with the power button gets me into a power screen at the top of which is an item that says "Lock Screens" pushing that has no effect either, as does pushing the buttons below it saying "power off" or "go to sleep".
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >If I turn the timer on, the timer starts running but it shows speed while sitting in my computer room. It you turn the timer off, it asks you if you want to save the recording. But the X for NO also doesn't work.
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >
> >> > >> >> > >> >> >Does anyone have any idea about how to get this to work?
> >> > >> >> > >> >> And thus speaks the chap with, by his own admission, 50 years of
> >> > >> >> > >> >> software engineering!
> >> > >> >> > >> >
> >> > >> >> > >> >Thus speaks a moron that knows absolutely nothing about firmware or the difference between it and software. But he can run his mouth off for things other than blowing off little Thai boys.
> >> > >> >> > >> Nice one Tommy, but you are the one who brags about all your
> >> > >> >> > >> experience designing exotic medical equipment and now you need help in
> >> > >> >> > >> turning on a simple electronic device that hundreds, probably
> >> > >> >> > >> thousands, of others use with no problems.
> >> > >> >> > >>
> >> > >> >> > >> Tell us Tommy, do you also have problems with light switches in your
> >> > >> >> > >> house? "Lets see.... is it up or down?"
> >> > >> >> > >
> >> > >> >> > >You're so stupid you cannot tell the difference between turning something on and it working properly. One can only wonder how you can put your own socks on. Or is that why you married a Thai woman whom you claim doesn't want to live in America with large Thai populations.
> >> > >> >> > Socks? Nobody wears socks with sandals.
> >> > >> >> > As for my wife, I'm not claiming, she did visit the U.S, and she did
> >> > >> >> > state that she would never want to live there as the people weren't
> >> > >> >> > "nice".
> >> > >> >> > As for the "large" Thai populations... well the U.S. Migration Policy
> >> > >> >> > Institute has it that there are 239,942 Thai's living in the U.S. as
> >> > >> >> > of 2011.
> >> > >> >> >
> >> > >> >> > As for you I can only repeat my previous comment that even a very
> >> > >> >> > small child, or even a puppy dog, will learn if you slap it on the
> >> > >> >> > arse and shout NO! when it misbehaves. But you've been slapped on the
> >> > >> >> > arse, documented for at least 16 years, and you haven't learned a
> >> > >> >> > thing.
> >> > >> >> >
> >> > >> >> > I think the light switch may be too complicated for one of your mental
> >> > >> >> > caliber.
> >> > >> >> So you're admitting you lied about you bringing your wife to the US and her not liking it. She of course preferred a Thai open air market with flies covering the produce rather than an air conditioned supermarket with food that people don't have to wonder if it will poison them or not.
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> >Tommy, you being a city boy who has no clue about where food comes from, I will tell you something. Lots of food is grown in the DIRT!!!!!! Yes that is right, the DIRT!!!!!!!!! And the animals we raise and slaughter and eat are also usually raised on dirt. Standing on the dirt. Not eating the dirt. But the food they eat is grown in the dirt. DIRT!!!!!!!!!!! And guess what Tommy? There are flies and bugs and all kinds of other things in this dirt!!!!!!!!! Or on the crops. Now when all the food is processed, it is usually kept reasonably clean. But I think the FDA has some rules for bug parts per millions thing or another. And human beings deal with germs and bacteria pretty well. I think there is some bacteria that live inside humans!!!!!!!!!!
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> >And Tommy, I suspect there are also open markets where organic, nature people sell their home grown vegetables in California. Usually Saturday mornings in downtown. Usually these markets are a big deal. Lots of people go there every week to buy wholesome food. Usually expensive.
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> >One more thing Tommy boy. Must have been last fall. I helped my Mom and brother pick up apples off a tree. Some of the apples were on the ground!!!!!!! Touching the grass!!!!!!!! Mom peeled them and cooked them and made apple pie and applesauce. Yummmmm. Dirty, filthy apples touching the earth!!!!!!! Some were picked directly off the tree too. But they were probably contaminated by the air from the nearby factories. We did this with pears too. I like pears.
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> And even worse! Apple trees and the fruit are sprayed with noxious
> >> > >> chemicals to protect them from bugs and such.
> >> > >> --
> >> > >> Cheers,
> >> > >>
> >> > >> John B.
> >> > >
> >> > >I forgot to add this. I currently live in Iowa. Iowa is known for agriculture. Among other things. But agriculture is one of the big ones. Iowa grows LOTS of corn. Corn is used as animal feed. AND to make fructose. That sugar used in almost everything. Everything processed anyway. Food. So when Tommy boy drank his Coke today, it contained fructose likely from Iowa corn. Now back to that animal feed part about corn. Iowa grows lots of corn that is fed to livestock. Iowa is also a HUGE pig state. I believe Iowa raises more pigs than any other state in the USA. Hog confinements are everywhere. Every few miles you see and smell a hog confinement out in the country. Do you know what the hogs eat? Corn grown in Iowa. Know what else the hogs make, besides pork when they are slaughtered? Manure. Hog confinements make lots and lots of manure. Do you know what is done with that manure? It is spread on fields. Actually its injected, tilled into the dirt. So Tommy boy,
> >> > >when you drink your Coke with fructose, you are drinking hog sh-t. Or fructose from corn grown on fields fertilized with hog sh-t. Gosh, that Thailand open air market with flies doesn't sound too bad now.
> >> > >
> >> > >John, the apple and pear trees I am referring to, that we picked the fruit from. They were not sprayed with any chemicals. They are local trees in yards. Not commercial fruit tree farms. They were organic apple and pear trees.
> >> > Errr... an organic tree (:-)
> >> >
> >> > I grew up in a non chemical, well pretty much non chemical, society, I
> >> > think I remember tomatoes being sprayed to kill tomato worms, but you
> >> > could eat apples right off the tree, or off the ground for that
> >> > matter. Sort of wipe them off on your shirt and gobble them.
> >> >
> >> > As for manure... I wonder what Tommy thinks is done with the tons and
> >> > tons of manure from chicken cattle, pigs, or even humans - in some
> >> > countries - that is produced annually. In 1894 there were some 11,000
> >> > Hanson cabs and several thousand horse drawn "busses" in London ove5
> >> > 50,000 horses used for transportation and on the average a horse
> >> > produces 15 - 35 pounds of manure a day - depending on size. 50,000 x
> >> > (say) 25 lbs = 625 tons. A day! One newspaper estimated that in 50
> >> > years every street in London would be 9 feet deep in horse manure.
> >> I grew up when things were still delivered by horse and cart and John with all of that vast knowledge he has of London is going to tell us about manure when he is a pile of horseshit. It must certainly be wonderful to know about everything when you've never been anywhere
> >
> >One more inexplicable statement from Tommy boy. John grew up in the Northeast. Vermont
> or New Hampshire. And he has been living in Thailand for the past 3-4
> decades. Yet you say he has never been anywhere? As for you Tommy,
> you were born and raised in Oakland. Supposedly traveled to Asia
> during your claimed Air Force service. And have worked and lived in
> the Oakland area ever since. Compared to John, you have never been
> anywhere times two. You are still right where you started. Tommy,
> you need to leave home. Go, explore, live.
> Actually it is very arguable whether Tommy ever reached "Asia" as from
> his tales he was on Guam for a few months.... some 2,524 Km from Tokyo
> and 3,932 km from Vietnam.
>
> As for me (:-) Well, U.S., Japan, Vietnam, Singapore, Indonesia,
> Thailand,
> (:-)

On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 14:10:05 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>The Air Force called it a war zone and issued me a VFW metal for it no matter how much you lie about it.

Umm... it's medal, not metal.

Did the USAF issue you a VFW medal? That's odd as the VFW (Veterans
of Foreign Wars) is an organization of former combat veterans and does
not issue either metals or medals. You have it backwards. To apply
for membership in the VFW, you need to demonstrate that you've served
on foreign soil. Proof that you received one of the medals listed is
one of the three possible proofs:
<https://vfworg-cdn.azureedge.net/-/media/VFWSite/Files/Join/One-PageEligibilitySheet.pdf?la=en&v=1&d=20210901T134522Z>
<https://www.vfw.org/join/eligibility>

Before you complain that I don't know anything about the USAF, VFW and
medals, you are correct. I don't know anything about these. However,
it seems that you don't either.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 14:10:05 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 5:56:28 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 15:20:20 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 9:18:55 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >> On Thursday, June 30, 2022 at 11:29:57 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>> >> > On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 22:46:03 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>> >> > <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > >On Thursday, June 30, 2022 at 8:06:25 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>> >> > >> On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 15:33:13 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>> >> > >> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> >On Thursday, June 30, 2022 at 9:15:58 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >> > >> >> On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 4:02:25 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>> >> > >> >> > On Wed, 29 Jun 2022 08:15:30 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> >> > >> >> > <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > >> >> >
>> >> > >> >> > >On Tuesday, June 28, 2022 at 4:18:34 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>> >> > >> >> > >> On Tue, 28 Jun 2022 07:52:13 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> >> > >> >> > >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > >> >> > >>
>> >> > >> >> > >> >On Monday, June 27, 2022 at 7:35:07 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> On Mon, 27 Jun 2022 18:41:38 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > >> >> > >> >>
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >On Sunday, June 26, 2022 at 5:04:19 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> On Sunday, June 26, 2022 at 10:12:11 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 11:38:03 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 8:24:58 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 10:56:08 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 7:04:38 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 2:08:53 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > > Well, I have been bothered by my Garmin 830 reporting "Laps" of 5 miles each. These are absolutely worthless but I have yet to discover a way of turning this off. When I flip the Laps notation "off" it still continues with this distraction.
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > >
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > > More serious is it turning off at the strangest moments and for no reason. Yesterday, on that 38 mile ride, it turned off after 21 miles. I think that there was a small indicator that showed it was off but not very noticeable until I reached the top of the climb and started down and got to fairly easy descent from the 12% top descent. This means that I cut 10 miles off of my 38 mile recording. Luckily I did this exact route a month ago and so could get the climb and length off of it. But the new Shamal wheels which had a remarkable effect on my flats speed didn't show any true average speed.
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > >
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > > This happened more commonly in the past but it had more or less stopped doing this with the last firmware update. Well, they updated it again and it looks like it is back.
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > >
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > > I was also having trouble with my 830 finding the speed/cadence sensor but I figured that one out - they have a class of Cadence sensor and another Speed/Cadence sensor. They are different and apparently have different identification codes. Once discovered, easily fixed.
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > >
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > > Now I have to watch for the unit shutting off for some reason. I think that occurs when I come to a stop for more than 10 seconds like when I stopped to take a leak along the road. The distance to that point is about correct for the stopped mileage.
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > The garminhas carried on with its piculiar behavior. I think that it was the last firmware update that did it in. The immediately followed that by yet another firmware update. So hopefully that wil correct the problem. It shows the route when you get to the end of the ride and connect it with Garmin Express, but it shows zero mileage for these sections. The last time the Garmin switched off at 5 miles into a 30 mile ride leaving me to guess at distances.
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > That are strange problems. My brother uses an edge 830 for a couple of years now without those problems. He had issues when the unit came out but all that was solved by the first couple of updates. Garmin and software is not a great combination. Have you consulted the Garmin forum:
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fitness/cycling/f/edge-830
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > > It appears that a lot of people are having trouble with either the same or related problems. Tomorrow I'll be taking anoter ride and start early and hope the wind and weather aren't too bad or hot. If it fails yet again after I've reset it, I'll have to call Service again. The last problem I had he sent me a non-released version of firmware that fixed all of the problems. I think I'll carry the 810 in my back pocket so that I don't have to guess at distances anymore. The 830 is smaller and lighter but DAMN are a lot of people having problems with it.
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > The software engineers at Garmin are morons.
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > Well, one of the help line guys suggested that I disconnect the 830 from the old version 1 speed/cadence sensor and I did that running purely on GPS and it operated perfectly. I will try it again today and then change it over to the version 2 speed and cadence sensors which I think are different. If this works I will let the Garmen people know that they have a big fat bug sitting in the middle of their Version 1 sensor firmware.
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> Again it operated perfectly so I will ad a version 2 Cadence and speed sensor and see it that fits the problem.
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >In an attempt to hook up the Version 2 speed and cadence sensors, I discovered that the 830 acts as it all of the screens are locked. I cannot get into adding a sensor screen because pushing the 3 lines has absolutely no effect. Fooling around with the power button gets me into a power screen at the top of which is an item that says "Lock Screens" pushing that has no effect either, as does pushing the buttons below it saying "power off" or "go to sleep".
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >If I turn the timer on, the timer starts running but it shows speed while sitting in my computer room. It you turn the timer off, it asks you if you want to save the recording. But the X for NO also doesn't work.
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> >Does anyone have any idea about how to get this to work?
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> And thus speaks the chap with, by his own admission, 50 years of
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> software engineering!
>> >> > >> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> >> > >> >Thus speaks a moron that knows absolutely nothing about firmware or the difference between it and software. But he can run his mouth off for things other than blowing off little Thai boys.
>> >> > >> >> > >> Nice one Tommy, but you are the one who brags about all your
>> >> > >> >> > >> experience designing exotic medical equipment and now you need help in
>> >> > >> >> > >> turning on a simple electronic device that hundreds, probably
>> >> > >> >> > >> thousands, of others use with no problems.
>> >> > >> >> > >>
>> >> > >> >> > >> Tell us Tommy, do you also have problems with light switches in your
>> >> > >> >> > >> house? "Lets see.... is it up or down?"
>> >> > >> >> > >
>> >> > >> >> > >You're so stupid you cannot tell the difference between turning something on and it working properly. One can only wonder how you can put your own socks on. Or is that why you married a Thai woman whom you claim doesn't want to live in America with large Thai populations.
>> >> > >> >> > Socks? Nobody wears socks with sandals.
>> >> > >> >> > As for my wife, I'm not claiming, she did visit the U.S, and she did
>> >> > >> >> > state that she would never want to live there as the people weren't
>> >> > >> >> > "nice".
>> >> > >> >> > As for the "large" Thai populations... well the U.S. Migration Policy
>> >> > >> >> > Institute has it that there are 239,942 Thai's living in the U.S. as
>> >> > >> >> > of 2011.
>> >> > >> >> >
>> >> > >> >> > As for you I can only repeat my previous comment that even a very
>> >> > >> >> > small child, or even a puppy dog, will learn if you slap it on the
>> >> > >> >> > arse and shout NO! when it misbehaves. But you've been slapped on the
>> >> > >> >> > arse, documented for at least 16 years, and you haven't learned a
>> >> > >> >> > thing.
>> >> > >> >> >
>> >> > >> >> > I think the light switch may be too complicated for one of your mental
>> >> > >> >> > caliber.
>> >> > >> >> So you're admitting you lied about you bringing your wife to the US and her not liking it. She of course preferred a Thai open air market with flies covering the produce rather than an air conditioned supermarket with food that people don't have to wonder if it will poison them or not.
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> >Tommy, you being a city boy who has no clue about where food comes from, I will tell you something. Lots of food is grown in the DIRT!!!!!! Yes that is right, the DIRT!!!!!!!!! And the animals we raise and slaughter and eat are also usually raised on dirt. Standing on the dirt. Not eating the dirt. But the food they eat is grown in the dirt. DIRT!!!!!!!!!!! And guess what Tommy? There are flies and bugs and all kinds of other things in this dirt!!!!!!!!! Or on the crops. Now when all the food is processed, it is usually kept reasonably clean. But I think the FDA has some rules for bug parts per millions thing or another. And human beings deal with germs and bacteria pretty well. I think there is some bacteria that live inside humans!!!!!!!!!!
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> >And Tommy, I suspect there are also open markets where organic, nature people sell their home grown vegetables in California. Usually Saturday mornings in downtown. Usually these markets are a big deal. Lots of people go there every week to buy wholesome food. Usually expensive.
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> >One more thing Tommy boy. Must have been last fall. I helped my Mom and brother pick up apples off a tree. Some of the apples were on the ground!!!!!!! Touching the grass!!!!!!!! Mom peeled them and cooked them and made apple pie and applesauce. Yummmmm. Dirty, filthy apples touching the earth!!!!!!! Some were picked directly off the tree too. But they were probably contaminated by the air from the nearby factories. We did this with pears too. I like pears.
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> And even worse! Apple trees and the fruit are sprayed with noxious
>> >> > >> chemicals to protect them from bugs and such.
>> >> > >> --
>> >> > >> Cheers,
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> John B.
>> >> > >
>> >> > >I forgot to add this. I currently live in Iowa. Iowa is known for agriculture. Among other things. But agriculture is one of the big ones. Iowa grows LOTS of corn. Corn is used as animal feed. AND to make fructose. That sugar used in almost everything. Everything processed anyway. Food. So when Tommy boy drank his Coke today, it contained fructose likely from Iowa corn. Now back to that animal feed part about corn. Iowa grows lots of corn that is fed to livestock. Iowa is also a HUGE pig state. I believe Iowa raises more pigs than any other state in the USA. Hog confinements are everywhere. Every few miles you see and smell a hog confinement out in the country. Do you know what the hogs eat? Corn grown in Iowa. Know what else the hogs make, besides pork when they are slaughtered? Manure. Hog confinements make lots and lots of manure. Do you know what is done with that manure? It is spread on fields. Actually its injected, tilled into the dirt. So Tommy boy,
>> >> > >when you drink your Coke with fructose, you are drinking hog sh-t. Or fructose from corn grown on fields fertilized with hog sh-t. Gosh, that Thailand open air market with flies doesn't sound too bad now.
>> >> > >
>> >> > >John, the apple and pear trees I am referring to, that we picked the fruit from. They were not sprayed with any chemicals. They are local trees in yards. Not commercial fruit tree farms. They were organic apple and pear trees.
>> >> > Errr... an organic tree (:-)
>> >> >
>> >> > I grew up in a non chemical, well pretty much non chemical, society, I
>> >> > think I remember tomatoes being sprayed to kill tomato worms, but you
>> >> > could eat apples right off the tree, or off the ground for that
>> >> > matter. Sort of wipe them off on your shirt and gobble them.
>> >> >
>> >> > As for manure... I wonder what Tommy thinks is done with the tons and
>> >> > tons of manure from chicken cattle, pigs, or even humans - in some
>> >> > countries - that is produced annually. In 1894 there were some 11,000
>> >> > Hanson cabs and several thousand horse drawn "busses" in London ove5
>> >> > 50,000 horses used for transportation and on the average a horse
>> >> > produces 15 - 35 pounds of manure a day - depending on size. 50,000 x
>> >> > (say) 25 lbs = 625 tons. A day! One newspaper estimated that in 50
>> >> > years every street in London would be 9 feet deep in horse manure.
>> >> I grew up when things were still delivered by horse and cart and John with all of that vast knowledge he has of London is going to tell us about manure when he is a pile of horseshit. It must certainly be wonderful to know about everything when you've never been anywhere
>> >
>> >One more inexplicable statement from Tommy boy. John grew up in the Northeast. Vermont
>> or New Hampshire. And he has been living in Thailand for the past 3-4
>> decades. Yet you say he has never been anywhere? As for you Tommy,
>> you were born and raised in Oakland. Supposedly traveled to Asia
>> during your claimed Air Force service. And have worked and lived in
>> the Oakland area ever since. Compared to John, you have never been
>> anywhere times two. You are still right where you started. Tommy,
>> you need to leave home. Go, explore, live.
>> Actually it is very arguable whether Tommy ever reached "Asia" as from
>> his tales he was on Guam for a few months.... some 2,524 Km from Tokyo
>> and 3,932 km from Vietnam.
>>
>> As for me (:-) Well, U.S., Japan, Vietnam, Singapore, Indonesia,
>> Thailand,
>> (:-)
>
>Six months is half a year and not "a couple of months". The Air Force called it a war zone and issued me a VFW metal for it no matter how much you lie about it. The bombs and the ammunition was all live and I did fly four missions over Vietnam directly whether you want to admit it or not. You're such a nobody that you're using kilometers instead of miles to make the distances sound further than they are. I was in Japan since Okinawa is part of Japan and my Japanese friend lives there. I also flew at least one Chrome Dome mission which covered the Arctic Circle. A couple of years ago I took a cruise ship to Mexico. I've been to 13 states. You want to pretend that you have been something other than a nitwit like Frank but your pretense isn't real.

On Sat, 02 Jul 2022 15:20:16 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 14:10:05 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
><cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>The Air Force called it a war zone and issued me a VFW metal for it no matter how much you lie about it.
>
>Umm... it's medal, not metal.
>
>Did the USAF issue you a VFW medal? That's odd as the VFW (Veterans
>of Foreign Wars) is an organization of former combat veterans and does
>not issue either metals or medals. You have it backwards. To apply
>for membership in the VFW, you need to demonstrate that you've served
>on foreign soil. Proof that you received one of the medals listed is
>one of the three possible proofs:
><https://vfworg-cdn.azureedge.net/-/media/VFWSite/Files/Join/One-PageEligibilitySheet.pdf?la=en&v=1&d=20210901T134522Z>
><https://www.vfw.org/join/eligibility>
>
>Before you complain that I don't know anything about the USAF, VFW and
>medals, you are correct. I don't know anything about these. However,
>it seems that you don't either.

(:-) As I pointed out in another post there is no such thing as an
Air Force VFW award, ribbon, metal, medal, whatever.

Which demonstrates, I'd say, just how much Tommy knows about what he
is talking about.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 3:20:23 PM UTC-7, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 14:10:05 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >The Air Force called it a war zone and issued me a VFW metal for it no matter how much you lie about it.
> Umm... it's medal, not metal.
>
> Did the USAF issue you a VFW medal? That's odd as the VFW (Veterans
> of Foreign Wars) is an organization of former combat veterans and does
> not issue either metals or medals. You have it backwards. To apply
> for membership in the VFW, you need to demonstrate that you've served
> on foreign soil. Proof that you received one of the medals listed is
> one of the three possible proofs:
> <https://vfworg-cdn.azureedge.net/-/media/VFWSite/Files/Join/One-PageEligibilitySheet.pdf?la=en&v=1&d=20210901T134522Z>
> <https://www.vfw.org/join/eligibility>
>
> Before you complain that I don't know anything about the USAF, VFW and
> medals, you are correct. I don't know anything about these. However,
> it seems that you don't either.
By the way Jeff, what did you do for your country except attempt to steal from other members of the society you live among?

On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 5:50:37 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> On Sat, 02 Jul 2022 15:20:16 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
> wrote:
> >On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 14:10:05 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> ><cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>The Air Force called it a war zone and issued me a VFW metal for it no matter how much you lie about it.
> >
> >Umm... it's medal, not metal.
> >
> >Did the USAF issue you a VFW medal? That's odd as the VFW (Veterans
> >of Foreign Wars) is an organization of former combat veterans and does
> >not issue either metals or medals. You have it backwards. To apply
> >for membership in the VFW, you need to demonstrate that you've served
> >on foreign soil. Proof that you received one of the medals listed is
> >one of the three possible proofs:
> ><https://vfworg-cdn.azureedge.net/-/media/VFWSite/Files/Join/One-PageEligibilitySheet.pdf?la=en&v=1&d=20210901T134522Z>
> ><https://www.vfw.org/join/eligibility>
> >
> >Before you complain that I don't know anything about the USAF, VFW and
> >medals, you are correct. I don't know anything about these. However,
> >it seems that you don't either.
> (:-) As I pointed out in another post there is no such thing as an
> Air Force VFW award, ribbon, metal, medal, whatever.
>
> Which demonstrates, I'd say, just how much Tommy knows about what he
> is talking about.
OK, It's a VSM. I have one and you don't. Tell us again how you moved between SAC and TAC

On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 08:36:58 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>By the way Jeff, what did you do for your country except attempt to steal from other members of the society you live among?

It's really thoughtful of you to ask me a question, and then provide
me with the answer you wanted to hear. If you already posses your
answer, why did you bother to ask me?

Do you really think that anything I did or didn't do 50 years ago
would somehow enhance what is left of your reputation? Whether I am
evil incarnate or a modern day Mahatma Gandhi, I would have no effect
on your employment history, minimal education, and military service.
Even if you could demonstrate that I am an authorized representative
of the devil himself, that would still be insufficient to prove that
you received a "metal" from the VFW, have a life membership in the
Aeolian Yacht Club, or substantiate the massive dung heap of amazing
facts that spring forth from your fertile imagination. As you make
your bed, so must you lie on it.

If your definition of serving my country includes serving in the
military, I did nothing. To avoid getting drafted, I stayed in
college and obtained a deferment. I eventually received a BSEE.
<http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/diploma-jeffl.jpg>
The closest approximation of something military was when I helped
design the AN/SRD-21 homer and AN/SRD-22 direction finder:
<http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/AN-SRD-21/>
<http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/AN-SRD-22/>
These were used by the USCG (US Coast Guard) for search and rescue.
That was in 1974 and 1975, after the draft had ended. At various
times, I attempted to obtain employment with companies that had
military contracts. That failed because I could not obtain the
required security clearance.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 10:12:38 AM UTC-7, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 08:36:58 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >By the way Jeff, what did you do for your country except attempt to steal from other members of the society you live among?
> It's really thoughtful of you to ask me a question, and then provide
> me with the answer you wanted to hear. If you already posses your
> answer, why did you bother to ask me?
>
> Do you really think that anything I did or didn't do 50 years ago
> would somehow enhance what is left of your reputation? Whether I am
> evil incarnate or a modern day Mahatma Gandhi, I would have no effect
> on your employment history, minimal education, and military service.
> Even if you could demonstrate that I am an authorized representative
> of the devil himself, that would still be insufficient to prove that
> you received a "metal" from the VFW, have a life membership in the
> Aeolian Yacht Club, or substantiate the massive dung heap of amazing
> facts that spring forth from your fertile imagination. As you make
> your bed, so must you lie on it.
>
> If your definition of serving my country includes serving in the
> military, I did nothing. To avoid getting drafted, I stayed in
> college and obtained a deferment. I eventually received a BSEE.
> <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/diploma-jeffl.jpg>
> The closest approximation of something military was when I helped
> design the AN/SRD-21 homer and AN/SRD-22 direction finder:
> <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/AN-SRD-21/>
> <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/AN-SRD-22/>
> These were used by the USCG (US Coast Guard) for search and rescue.
> That was in 1974 and 1975, after the draft had ended. At various
> times, I attempted to obtain employment with companies that had
> military contracts. That failed because I could not obtain the
> required security clearance.
> --
> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
> PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipNsgM9kFNr1dhnAP_mDjAJblaKuX3glKx4Wg52d

Tell me Mr. Intelligent, what does that say?

On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 10:12:38 AM UTC-7, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 08:36:58 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >By the way Jeff, what did you do for your country except attempt to steal from other members of the society you live among?
> It's really thoughtful of you to ask me a question, and then provide
> me with the answer you wanted to hear. If you already posses your
> answer, why did you bother to ask me?
>
> Do you really think that anything I did or didn't do 50 years ago
> would somehow enhance what is left of your reputation? Whether I am
> evil incarnate or a modern day Mahatma Gandhi, I would have no effect
> on your employment history, minimal education, and military service.
> Even if you could demonstrate that I am an authorized representative
> of the devil himself, that would still be insufficient to prove that
> you received a "metal" from the VFW, have a life membership in the
> Aeolian Yacht Club, or substantiate the massive dung heap of amazing
> facts that spring forth from your fertile imagination. As you make
> your bed, so must you lie on it.
>
> If your definition of serving my country includes serving in the
> military, I did nothing. To avoid getting drafted, I stayed in
> college and obtained a deferment. I eventually received a BSEE.
> <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/diploma-jeffl.jpg>
> The closest approximation of something military was when I helped
> design the AN/SRD-21 homer and AN/SRD-22 direction finder:
> <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/AN-SRD-21/>
> <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/AN-SRD-22/>
> These were used by the USCG (US Coast Guard) for search and rescue.
> That was in 1974 and 1975, after the draft had ended. At various
> times, I attempted to obtain employment with companies that had
> military contracts. That failed because I could not obtain the
> required security clearance.
> --
> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
> PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Why didn't you want to bet with me? Because you know just how stupid you are?

On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 10:14:21 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipNsgM9kFNr1dhnAP_mDjAJblaKuX3glKx4Wg52d
>
>Tell me Mr. Intelligent, what does that say?

404. That’s an error.
The requested URL was not found on this server. That’s all we know.

Keep trying. You'll get it right eventually.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 7/3/2022 12:14 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 10:12:38 AM UTC-7, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 08:36:58 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> By the way Jeff, what did you do for your country except attempt to steal from other members of the society you live among?
>> It's really thoughtful of you to ask me a question, and then provide
>> me with the answer you wanted to hear. If you already posses your
>> answer, why did you bother to ask me?
>>
>> Do you really think that anything I did or didn't do 50 years ago
>> would somehow enhance what is left of your reputation? Whether I am
>> evil incarnate or a modern day Mahatma Gandhi, I would have no effect
>> on your employment history, minimal education, and military service.
>> Even if you could demonstrate that I am an authorized representative
>> of the devil himself, that would still be insufficient to prove that
>> you received a "metal" from the VFW, have a life membership in the
>> Aeolian Yacht Club, or substantiate the massive dung heap of amazing
>> facts that spring forth from your fertile imagination. As you make
>> your bed, so must you lie on it.
>>
>> If your definition of serving my country includes serving in the
>> military, I did nothing. To avoid getting drafted, I stayed in
>> college and obtained a deferment. I eventually received a BSEE.
>> <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/diploma-jeffl.jpg>
>> The closest approximation of something military was when I helped
>> design the AN/SRD-21 homer and AN/SRD-22 direction finder:
>> <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/AN-SRD-21/>
>> <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/AN-SRD-22/>
>> These were used by the USCG (US Coast Guard) for search and rescue.
>> That was in 1974 and 1975, after the draft had ended. At various
>> times, I attempted to obtain employment with companies that had
>> military contracts. That failed because I could not obtain the
>> required security clearance.
>> --
>> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
>> PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
>> Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
>> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
>
> https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipNsgM9kFNr1dhnAP_mDjAJblaKuX3glKx4Wg52d
>
> Tell me Mr. Intelligent, what does that say?
>

First it says 'Possible security risk. Are you sure?'
OK, I'll go for it.

And then it says '404'.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 10:22:20 AM UTC-7, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 10:14:21 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipNsgM9kFNr1dhnAP_mDjAJblaKuX3glKx4Wg52d
> >
> >Tell me Mr. Intelligent, what does that say?
> 404. That’s an error.
> The requested URL was not found on this server. That’s all we know.
>
> Keep trying. You'll get it right eventually.
> --
> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
> PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
So that means that there's nothing there. What about that $1,000 bet? You have an absolutely sure thing there so why don't you bet?