On Sun, 21 May 2023 05:55:44 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Sat, 20 May 2023 19:29:18 +0200, Rolf Mantel
><news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
>
>>Am 20.05.2023 um 07:57 schrieb John B.:
>>> Biologically a female creature is a creature who may be impregnated
>>> and give birth and a male creature is one capable of impregnating the
>>> female.
>>
>>According to this definition, there is the grey zone of sterile
>>individuals, and this grey zone shrinks but does not vanish when you
>>specify the existence of reproductive organs instead of specifyling
>>functional reproductive organs.
>
>Sure, you can always find some word that can be interpreted more then
>one way. Tom, for example, has stated that because of a childhood
>disease he is unable to father children, thus, in a sense, he does not
>have functional reproductive organs. By your definition he isn't a
>male which is obviously ridiculous.

There's been no question as to how to differentiate between men and
women for thousands of years...

On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 2:37:28 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 5/20/2023 2:11 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 10:29:19 AM UTC-7, Rolf Mantel wrote:
> >> Am 20.05.2023 um 07:57 schrieb John B.:
> >>> Biologically a female creature is a creature who may be impregnated
> >>> and give birth and a male creature is one capable of impregnating the
> >>> female.
> >> According to this definition, there is the grey zone of sterile
> >> individuals, and this grey zone shrinks but does not vanish when you
> >> specify the existence of reproductive organs instead of specifyling
> >> functional reproductive organs.
> >
> > In any case a Y chromosome gives that person a distinct physical advantage over people who have only X chromosomes. The entire muscle structure is changed even at birth to take advantage of testosterone when age begins its production. Pretending that the world isn't the way it is does not change reality.
> >
> Kleinfelter's.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

"Klinefelter syndrome may adversely affect testicular growth, resulting in smaller than normal testicles, which can lead to lower production of testosterone. The syndrome may also cause reduced muscle mass, reduced body and facial hair, and enlarged breast tissue. The effects of Klinefelter syndrome vary, and not everyone has the same signs and symptoms." (Mayo Clinic)

On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 4:33:31 PM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Sun, 21 May 2023 05:55:44 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >On Sat, 20 May 2023 19:29:18 +0200, Rolf Mantel
> ><ne...@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
> >
> >>Am 20.05.2023 um 07:57 schrieb John B.:
> >>> Biologically a female creature is a creature who may be impregnated
> >>> and give birth and a male creature is one capable of impregnating the
> >>> female.
> >>
> >>According to this definition, there is the grey zone of sterile
> >>individuals, and this grey zone shrinks but does not vanish when you
> >>specify the existence of reproductive organs instead of specifyling
> >>functional reproductive organs.
> >
> >Sure, you can always find some word that can be interpreted more then
> >one way. Tom, for example, has stated that because of a childhood
> >disease he is unable to father children, thus, in a sense, he does not
> >have functional reproductive organs. By your definition he isn't a
> >male which is obviously ridiculous.
> There's been no question as to how to differentiate between men and
> women for thousands of years...

If you get a hard-on looking at a man - you're queer.

On Sat, 20 May 2023 13:48:37 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 5/20/2023 1:30 PM, pH wrote:
>> On 2023-05-19, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>> Turns out straight-up fraud works better than EPO !
>>>
>>> https://nypost.com/2023/05/19/trans-cyclist-alone-on-the-podium-after-winning-female-race/
>>
>> A local radio host (now passed on) had a saying which is becominng more
>> and more apropos....
>>
>> "We live in a world gone Mad."
>> -Stan Monteith
>>
>>
>> pH in Aptos
>>
>+1
>The sainted Bob Grant, "It's sick and getting sicker."

From here, reading the U.S. news, it does appear that the U.S. is
becoming more and more lawless. And certainly surveys of gun owners
seem to enforce that viewpoint with nearly 50% of gun owners surveyed
stated that they own a gun for protection.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sat, 20 May 2023 19:31:26 -0400, Catrike Rider
<soloman@drafting.not> wrote:

>On Sun, 21 May 2023 05:55:44 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 20 May 2023 19:29:18 +0200, Rolf Mantel
>><news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
>>
>>>Am 20.05.2023 um 07:57 schrieb John B.:
>>>> Biologically a female creature is a creature who may be impregnated
>>>> and give birth and a male creature is one capable of impregnating the
>>>> female.
>>>
>>>According to this definition, there is the grey zone of sterile
>>>individuals, and this grey zone shrinks but does not vanish when you
>>>specify the existence of reproductive organs instead of specifyling
>>>functional reproductive organs.
>>
>>Sure, you can always find some word that can be interpreted more then
>>one way. Tom, for example, has stated that because of a childhood
>>disease he is unable to father children, thus, in a sense, he does not
>>have functional reproductive organs. By your definition he isn't a
>>male which is obviously ridiculous.
>
>There's been no question as to how to differentiate between men and
>women for thousands of years...

Well, historically, you are correct but the U.S., in it's grandeur,
has decreed that , at least for passport identification, there are
three sexes - M, F and X.
https://www.state.gov/x-gender-marker-available-on-u-s-passports-starting-april-11/

Can you imagine the problems for foreign agencies. A Caucasian drowns
and is laying there naked on the autopsy table and the doctor writes,
on the report, Male, Caucasian, approximately 35 years old" and the
Thai authorities send the report off to all the "Caucasian" embassies
and the U.S. Embassy reports back, "Nope. Can't be our guy. Ours was
an "X""

--
Cheers,

John B.

On 2023-05-20, Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 11:50:21 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 5/20/2023 1:30 PM, pH wrote:
>> > On 2023-05-19, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> >> Turns out straight-up fraud works better than EPO !
>> >>
>> >> https://nypost.com/2023/05/19/trans-cyclist-alone-on-the-podium-after-winning-female-race/
>> >
>> > A local radio host (now passed on) had a saying which is becominng more
>> > and more apropos....
>> >
>> > "We live in a world gone Mad."
>> > -Stan Monteith
>> >
>> >
>> > pH in Aptos
>> >
>> +1
>> The sainted Bob Grant, "It's sick and getting sicker."
>> --
>> Andrew Muzi
>> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>
> You'll have to remind me who Bob Grant was. I remember a Grant Peterson who I believe started Bridgestone bicycles in the USA.

I believe Grant *worked* for Bridgestone and left to open Rivendell Bicycle
works up near Concord, CA somewhere. I'm assuming he's still in business.

pH

On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 8:32:58 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
> From here, reading the U.S. news, it does appear that the U.S. is
> becoming more and more lawless.

That appearance is more an effect of the news outlet policies than reality.
Many people have that fear even during the times of dropping crime. Fear
sells advertisement.

> And certainly surveys of gun owners
> seem to enforce that viewpoint with nearly 50% of gun owners surveyed
> stated that they own a gun for protection.

Right. They are responding to marketing, telling them that the world is
horribly dangerous. And that they will be likely to save themselves by
using their lightning-quick reflexes to blast away some bad guy.

Let me ask seriously: Do you get the same sort of messages from media
in Thailand? I'm also curious about Netherlands, Britain, etc.

- Frank Krygowski

On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 10:29:12 PM UTC-4, pH wrote:
> On 2023-05-20, Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 11:50:21 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 5/20/2023 1:30 PM, pH wrote:
> >> > On 2023-05-19, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >> >> Turns out straight-up fraud works better than EPO !
> >> >>
> >> >> https://nypost.com/2023/05/19/trans-cyclist-alone-on-the-podium-after-winning-female-race/
> >> >
> >> > A local radio host (now passed on) had a saying which is becominng more
> >> > and more apropos....
> >> >
> >> > "We live in a world gone Mad."
> >> > -Stan Monteith
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > pH in Aptos
> >> >
> >> +1
> >> The sainted Bob Grant, "It's sick and getting sicker."
> >> --
> >> Andrew Muzi
> >> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> >> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> >
> > You'll have to remind me who Bob Grant was. I remember a Grant Peterson who I believe started Bridgestone bicycles in the USA.
> I believe Grant *worked* for Bridgestone and left to open Rivendell Bicycle
> works up near Concord, CA somewhere. I'm assuming he's still in business.

He is. Running the company, also blogging.

- Frank Krygowski

On Sat, 20 May 2023 20:16:46 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 8:32:58?PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
>> From here, reading the U.S. news, it does appear that the U.S. is
>> becoming more and more lawless.
>
>That appearance is more an effect of the news outlet policies than reality.
>Many people have that fear even during the times of dropping crime. Fear
>sells advertisement.

Crime is not dropping..

>> And certainly surveys of gun owners
>> seem to enforce that viewpoint with nearly 50% of gun owners surveyed
>> stated that they own a gun for protection.
>
>Right. They are responding to marketing, telling them that the world is
>horribly dangerous. And that they will be likely to save themselves by
>using their lightning-quick reflexes to blast away some bad guy.
>
>Let me ask seriously: Do you get the same sort of messages from media
>in Thailand? I'm also curious about Netherlands, Britain, etc.
>
>- Frank Krygowski

On Sun, 21 May 2023 04:57:58 -0400, Catrike Rider
<soloman@drafting.not> wrote:

>On Sat, 20 May 2023 20:16:46 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
><frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 8:32:58?PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
>>> From here, reading the U.S. news, it does appear that the U.S. is
>>> becoming more and more lawless.
>>
>>That appearance is more an effect of the news outlet policies than reality.
>>Many people have that fear even during the times of dropping crime. Fear
>>sells advertisement.
>
>Crime is not dropping..
>
>>> And certainly surveys of gun owners
>>> seem to enforce that viewpoint with nearly 50% of gun owners surveyed
>>> stated that they own a gun for protection.
>>
>>Right. They are responding to marketing, telling them that the world is
>>horribly dangerous. And that they will be likely to save themselves by
>>using their lightning-quick reflexes to blast away some bad guy.
>>
>>Let me ask seriously: Do you get the same sort of messages from media
>>in Thailand? I'm also curious about Netherlands, Britain, etc.
>>
>>- Frank Krygowski

The English Language news, here, prints relatively little U.S. or
European news. Today there were total of 14 stories on the "front
page" of the Bangkok Post's site. 11 were local news reported in some
detail and 2 on a side bar relate to the Cannes Movie thing and 1
referring to Johnny Depp (whoever he is).

However all of the international news agencies are available on the
Internet.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sunday, May 21, 2023 at 4:59:31 AM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Sat, 20 May 2023 20:16:46 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 8:32:58?PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
> >> From here, reading the U.S. news, it does appear that the U.S. is
> >> becoming more and more lawless.
> >
> >That appearance is more an effect of the news outlet policies than reality.
> >Many people have that fear even during the times of dropping crime. Fear
> >sells advertisement.
> Crime is not dropping..

You really need to quit parroting what fox news tells you

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/10/31/violent-crime-is-a-key-midterm-voting-issue-but-what-does-the-data-say/

"Annual government surveys from the Bureau of Justice Statistics show no recent increase in the U.S. violent crime rate. In 2021, the most recent year with available data, there were 16.5 violent crimes for every 1,000 Americans ages 12 and older. That was statistically unchanged from the year before, below pre-pandemic levels and far below the rates recorded in the 1990s, according to the National Crime Victimization Survey."

> >> And certainly surveys of gun owners
> >> seem to enforce that viewpoint with nearly 50% of gun owners surveyed
> >> stated that they own a gun for protection.
> >
> >Right. They are responding to marketing, telling them that the world is
> >horribly dangerous. And that they will be likely to save themselves by
> >using their lightning-quick reflexes to blast away some bad guy.
> >
> >Let me ask seriously: Do you get the same sort of messages from media
> >in Thailand? I'm also curious about Netherlands, Britain, etc.
> >
> >- Frank Krygowski

On Sun, 21 May 2023 03:57:45 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
<funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, May 21, 2023 at 4:59:31?AM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> On Sat, 20 May 2023 20:16:46 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
>> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 8:32:58?PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
>> >> From here, reading the U.S. news, it does appear that the U.S. is
>> >> becoming more and more lawless.
>> >
>> >That appearance is more an effect of the news outlet policies than reality.
>> >Many people have that fear even during the times of dropping crime. Fear
>> >sells advertisement.
>> Crime is not dropping..
>
>You really need to quit parroting what fox news tells you

How about NPR, Dummy?

A nationwide spike in murders brings crime to the forefront

There's been a dramatic uptick in murder over the last several years.
FBI data shows that it rose nearly 30% from 2019 to 2020 — the largest
single-year increase ever recorded in the U.S.

The number of homicides increased 4.3% nationally in 2021, according
to the FBI report, and Asher says it likely decreased by a similar
amount so far this year. Nonetheless, it's higher than it was in 2019.
In other words: The murder rate is significantly lower than it was in
the 1990s — Asher says 30-40% lower — but much higher than it was just
three or four years ago.
Attorney General Garland pledges a comprehensive response to violent
crime
Law
Attorney General Garland pledges a comprehensive response to violent
crime

Importantly, that's a national rate. Asher thinks the reason crime
carries so much weight in these midterm elections is because the
increase in murders in 2020 was truly a national phenomenon.

"It happened in big cities, it happened in small cities. It happened
in counties that voted for Trump, it happened in counties that voted
for Biden," he says. "It was really everywhere, and so I think that
most places in America are grappling with at least some increase in
gun violence over the last two years, which brings it to the forefront
of these elections as they're taking place now."

https://www.npr.org/2022/10/27/1131825858/us-crime-data-midterm-elections

>https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/10/31/violent-crime-is-a-key-midterm-voting-issue-but-what-does-the-data-say/
>
>"Annual government surveys from the Bureau of Justice Statistics show no recent increase in the U.S. violent crime rate. In 2021, the most recent year with available data, there were 16.5 violent crimes for every 1,000 Americans ages 12 and older. That was statistically unchanged from the year before, below pre-pandemic levels and far below the rates recorded in the 1990s, according to the National Crime Victimization Survey."
>
>
>> >> And certainly surveys of gun owners
>> >> seem to enforce that viewpoint with nearly 50% of gun owners surveyed
>> >> stated that they own a gun for protection.
>> >
>> >Right. They are responding to marketing, telling them that the world is
>> >horribly dangerous. And that they will be likely to save themselves by
>> >using their lightning-quick reflexes to blast away some bad guy.
>> >
>> >Let me ask seriously: Do you get the same sort of messages from media
>> >in Thailand? I'm also curious about Netherlands, Britain, etc.
>> >
>> >- Frank Krygowski

On 5/20/2023 6:37 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 2:37:28 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 5/20/2023 2:11 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 10:29:19 AM UTC-7, Rolf Mantel wrote:
>>>> Am 20.05.2023 um 07:57 schrieb John B.:
>>>>> Biologically a female creature is a creature who may be impregnated
>>>>> and give birth and a male creature is one capable of impregnating the
>>>>> female.
>>>> According to this definition, there is the grey zone of sterile
>>>> individuals, and this grey zone shrinks but does not vanish when you
>>>> specify the existence of reproductive organs instead of specifyling
>>>> functional reproductive organs.
>>>
>>> In any case a Y chromosome gives that person a distinct physical advantage over people who have only X chromosomes. The entire muscle structure is changed even at birth to take advantage of testosterone when age begins its production. Pretending that the world isn't the way it is does not change reality.
>>>
>> Kleinfelter's.

> "Klinefelter syndrome may adversely affect testicular growth, resulting in smaller than normal testicles, which can lead to lower production of testosterone. The syndrome may also cause reduced muscle mass, reduced body and facial hair, and enlarged breast tissue. The effects of Klinefelter syndrome vary, and not everyone has the same signs and symptoms." (Mayo Clinic)
>

I had a tenant (known as 'James Bondage')who suffered from
it until his suicide.

The point is that although women are XX and men are XY,
abnormalities exist in some small numbers, one being
Kleinfelter's XXY for a sum of 47 (not 46) chromosomes.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 5/20/2023 7:31 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Sat, 20 May 2023 13:48:37 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> On 5/20/2023 1:30 PM, pH wrote:
>>> On 2023-05-19, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>> Turns out straight-up fraud works better than EPO !
>>>>
>>>> https://nypost.com/2023/05/19/trans-cyclist-alone-on-the-podium-after-winning-female-race/
>>>
>>> A local radio host (now passed on) had a saying which is becominng more
>>> and more apropos....
>>>
>>> "We live in a world gone Mad."
>>> -Stan Monteith
>>>
>>>
>>> pH in Aptos
>>>
>> +1
>> The sainted Bob Grant, "It's sick and getting sicker."
>
> From here, reading the U.S. news, it does appear that the U.S. is
> becoming more and more lawless. And certainly surveys of gun owners
> seem to enforce that viewpoint with nearly 50% of gun owners surveyed
> stated that they own a gun for protection.
>

That may well be but I have no idea about the signal to
noise ratio, what with modern data dispersal.

Thailand just arrested a woman who poisoned 12 people with
cyanide. That says nothing about Thai culture generally.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 5/20/2023 9:29 PM, pH wrote:
> On 2023-05-20, Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 11:50:21 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 5/20/2023 1:30 PM, pH wrote:
>>>> On 2023-05-19, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>> Turns out straight-up fraud works better than EPO !
>>>>>
>>>>> https://nypost.com/2023/05/19/trans-cyclist-alone-on-the-podium-after-winning-female-race/
>>>>
>>>> A local radio host (now passed on) had a saying which is becominng more
>>>> and more apropos....
>>>>
>>>> "We live in a world gone Mad."
>>>> -Stan Monteith
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> pH in Aptos
>>>>
>>> +1
>>> The sainted Bob Grant, "It's sick and getting sicker."
>>> --
>>> Andrew Muzi
>>> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>>
>> You'll have to remind me who Bob Grant was. I remember a Grant Peterson who I believe started Bridgestone bicycles in the USA.
>
> I believe Grant *worked* for Bridgestone and left to open Rivendell Bicycle
> works up near Concord, CA somewhere. I'm assuming he's still in business.
>
> pH
>

Mr Peterson is very much in business, and riding.
Unlike Mr Grant, who's passed.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 5/20/2023 10:16 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 8:32:58 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
>> From here, reading the U.S. news, it does appear that the U.S. is
>> becoming more and more lawless.
>
> That appearance is more an effect of the news outlet policies than reality.
> Many people have that fear even during the times of dropping crime. Fear
> sells advertisement.
>
>> And certainly surveys of gun owners
>> seem to enforce that viewpoint with nearly 50% of gun owners surveyed
>> stated that they own a gun for protection.
>
> Right. They are responding to marketing, telling them that the world is
> horribly dangerous. And that they will be likely to save themselves by
> using their lightning-quick reflexes to blast away some bad guy.
>
> Let me ask seriously: Do you get the same sort of messages from media
> in Thailand? I'm also curious about Netherlands, Britain, etc.
>
> - Frank Krygowski
>

+1
I agree with you as I noted a minute ago in another reply.

It's not clear to me that these are unusual times overall,
but particulars are individual instances, warranting
individual decisions and responses which naturally vary.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sunday, May 21, 2023 at 1:59:31 AM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Sat, 20 May 2023 20:16:46 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 8:32:58?PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
> >> From here, reading the U.S. news, it does appear that the U.S. is
> >> becoming more and more lawless.
> >
> >That appearance is more an effect of the news outlet policies than reality.
> >Many people have that fear even during the times of dropping crime. Fear
> >sells advertisement.
> Crime is not dropping..
> >> And certainly surveys of gun owners
> >> seem to enforce that viewpoint with nearly 50% of gun owners surveyed
> >> stated that they own a gun for protection.
> >
> >Right. They are responding to marketing, telling them that the world is
> >horribly dangerous. And that they will be likely to save themselves by
> >using their lightning-quick reflexes to blast away some bad guy.
> >
> >Let me ask seriously: Do you get the same sort of messages from media
> >in Thailand? I'm also curious about Netherlands, Britain, etc.
> >
> >- Frank Krygowski
Crime is sharply increasing but Cry Gowski is perfectly willing to say anything to support the Democrat initiative to scare people because frightened people are easier to control by big government.

On Sunday, May 21, 2023 at 7:08:18 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 5/20/2023 10:16 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 8:32:58 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
> >> From here, reading the U.S. news, it does appear that the U.S. is
> >> becoming more and more lawless.
> >
> > That appearance is more an effect of the news outlet policies than reality.
> > Many people have that fear even during the times of dropping crime. Fear
> > sells advertisement.
> >
> >> And certainly surveys of gun owners
> >> seem to enforce that viewpoint with nearly 50% of gun owners surveyed
> >> stated that they own a gun for protection.
> >
> > Right. They are responding to marketing, telling them that the world is
> > horribly dangerous. And that they will be likely to save themselves by
> > using their lightning-quick reflexes to blast away some bad guy.
> >
> > Let me ask seriously: Do you get the same sort of messages from media
> > in Thailand? I'm also curious about Netherlands, Britain, etc.
> >
> > - Frank Krygowski
> >
> +1
> I agree with you as I noted a minute ago in another reply.
>
> It's not clear to me that these are unusual times overall,
> but particulars are individual instances, warranting
> individual decisions and responses which naturally vary.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Let's remember that the US government has told us virtually anything that would put them in a good light. January 6th was an insurrection aided and abetted by Donald Trump. There was no election fraud despite my seeing it with my own eyes. They had Republican pole watchers that simply happened to change party to Republican a week before the election and oversaw the vote count. There wasn't any vote harvesters etc.

If you believe for one second that the murder rate is down when it is reportedly up in every major city in the US, you're falling for exactly what they want you to fall for.

On 5/21/2023 10:23 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Sunday, May 21, 2023 at 7:08:18 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 5/20/2023 10:16 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 8:32:58 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
>>>> From here, reading the U.S. news, it does appear that the U.S. is
>>>> becoming more and more lawless.
>>>
>>> That appearance is more an effect of the news outlet policies than reality.
>>> Many people have that fear even during the times of dropping crime. Fear
>>> sells advertisement.
>>>
>>>> And certainly surveys of gun owners
>>>> seem to enforce that viewpoint with nearly 50% of gun owners surveyed
>>>> stated that they own a gun for protection.
>>>
>>> Right. They are responding to marketing, telling them that the world is
>>> horribly dangerous. And that they will be likely to save themselves by
>>> using their lightning-quick reflexes to blast away some bad guy.
>>>
>>> Let me ask seriously: Do you get the same sort of messages from media
>>> in Thailand? I'm also curious about Netherlands, Britain, etc.
>>>
>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>
>> +1
>> I agree with you as I noted a minute ago in another reply.
>>
>> It's not clear to me that these are unusual times overall,
>> but particulars are individual instances, warranting
>> individual decisions and responses which naturally vary.

> Let's remember that the US government has told us virtually anything that would put them in a good light. January 6th was an insurrection aided and abetted by Donald Trump. There was no election fraud despite my seeing it with my own eyes. They had Republican pole watchers that simply happened to change party to Republican a week before the election and oversaw the vote count. There wasn't any vote harvesters etc.
>
> If you believe for one second that the murder rate is down when it is reportedly up in every major city in the US, you're falling for exactly what they want you to fall for.
>

US urban areas are suffering rising rates of all violent
crime, including murder, now from an elevated base.

The rest of the country is generally not.

There are statistical misrepresentations which confuse the
issues such as claiming Missouri, as a Republican led state,
has increasing murders while ignoring that it's concentrated
in the St Louis area and not much elsewhere. There are other
examples.

Which is why I wrote earlier about signal to noise ratio.

Your situation in Oakland is very different from mine in
Columbia County WI.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 5/21/2023 5:49 AM, John B. wrote:
> On Sun, 21 May 2023 04:57:58 -0400, Catrike Rider
> <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 20 May 2023 20:16:46 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 8:32:58?PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
>>>> From here, reading the U.S. news, it does appear that the U.S. is
>>>> becoming more and more lawless.
>>>
>>> That appearance is more an effect of the news outlet policies than
reality.
>>> Many people have that fear even during the times of dropping crime.
Fear
>>> sells advertisement.
>>
>> Crime is not dropping..
>>
>>>> And certainly surveys of gun owners
>>>> seem to enforce that viewpoint with nearly 50% of gun owners surveyed
>>>> stated that they own a gun for protection.
>>>
>>> Right. They are responding to marketing, telling them that the world is
>>> horribly dangerous. And that they will be likely to save themselves by
>>> using their lightning-quick reflexes to blast away some bad guy.
>>>
>>> Let me ask seriously: Do you get the same sort of messages from media
>>> in Thailand? I'm also curious about Netherlands, Britain, etc.
>>>
>>> - Frank Krygowski
>
> The English Language news, here, prints relatively little U.S. or
> European news. Today there were total of 14 stories on the "front
> page" of the Bangkok Post's site. 11 were local news reported in some
> detail and 2 on a side bar relate to the Cannes Movie thing and 1
> referring to Johnny Depp (whoever he is).

I should have been more specific. Do Thai news outlets engage in as much
fear mongering as U.S. news outlets? (And I'd also like to know whether
Dutch, German, British, Australian, Canadian news sources do the same.)

Our local newspaper, like most in America, is a sad remnant of what it
once was. It doesn't do much national news; but if there's a multi-car
pileup on a Colorado freeway, our paper will probably mention it.

But the online or TV news outlets are worst, instilling fear of events
thousands of miles away. A Tesla catches fire, a child catches Lyme
disease, a tornado hits a town center, or a distant gang member is shot
by another gang member. The subtext often is "It could happen to you!"

I know there are financial reasons for this. It lures eyeballs because
people really are compelled to pay attention to bad news. That's been
explained in terms of evolution: For most of human existence, if you got
news of a nighttime leopard attack, it could only be because the leopard
was nearby. The news put you on alert and helped your family's survival.

But today, we get news of a leopard attack in Africa, and react with
similar fear.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sun, 21 May 2023 12:28:24 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 5/21/2023 5:49 AM, John B. wrote:
> > On Sun, 21 May 2023 04:57:58 -0400, Catrike Rider
> > <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
> >
> >> On Sat, 20 May 2023 20:16:46 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
> >> <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 8:32:58?PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
> >>>> From here, reading the U.S. news, it does appear that the U.S. is
> >>>> becoming more and more lawless.
> >>>
> >>> That appearance is more an effect of the news outlet policies than
>reality.
> >>> Many people have that fear even during the times of dropping crime.
>Fear
> >>> sells advertisement.
> >>
> >> Crime is not dropping..
> >>
> >>>> And certainly surveys of gun owners
> >>>> seem to enforce that viewpoint with nearly 50% of gun owners surveyed
> >>>> stated that they own a gun for protection.
> >>>
> >>> Right. They are responding to marketing, telling them that the world is
> >>> horribly dangerous. And that they will be likely to save themselves by
> >>> using their lightning-quick reflexes to blast away some bad guy.
> >>>
> >>> Let me ask seriously: Do you get the same sort of messages from media
> >>> in Thailand? I'm also curious about Netherlands, Britain, etc.
> >>>
> >>> - Frank Krygowski
> >
> > The English Language news, here, prints relatively little U.S. or
> > European news. Today there were total of 14 stories on the "front
> > page" of the Bangkok Post's site. 11 were local news reported in some
> > detail and 2 on a side bar relate to the Cannes Movie thing and 1
> > referring to Johnny Depp (whoever he is).
>
>I should have been more specific. Do Thai news outlets engage in as much
>fear mongering as U.S. news outlets? (And I'd also like to know whether
>Dutch, German, British, Australian, Canadian news sources do the same.)
>
>Our local newspaper, like most in America, is a sad remnant of what it
>once was. It doesn't do much national news; but if there's a multi-car
>pileup on a Colorado freeway, our paper will probably mention it.
>
>But the online or TV news outlets are worst, instilling fear of events
>thousands of miles away. A Tesla catches fire, a child catches Lyme
>disease, a tornado hits a town center, or a distant gang member is shot
>by another gang member. The subtext often is "It could happen to you!"
>
>I know there are financial reasons for this. It lures eyeballs because
>people really are compelled to pay attention to bad news. That's been
>explained in terms of evolution: For most of human existence, if you got
>news of a nighttime leopard attack, it could only be because the leopard
>was nearby. The news put you on alert and helped your family's survival.
>
>But today, we get news of a leopard attack in Africa, and react with
>similar fear.

You certainly are a fearful little man, Krygowski.

On 5/21/2023 11:59 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>
> US urban areas are suffering rising rates of all violent crime,
> including murder, now from an elevated base.
>
> The rest of the country is generally not.

As I understand it, murder rates surged during COVID. 2020-2022 had
intense social changes and much stress. Murder rates rose in rural areas
as well as urban ones.

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/myths-and-realities-understanding-recent-trends-violent-crime

And the recent uptick should be looked at in a historical context:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Homicide_rates1900-2001.jpg

How terrified were people in 1980?

> There are statistical misrepresentations which confuse the issues such
> as claiming Missouri, as a Republican led state, has increasing murders
> while ignoring that it's concentrated in the St Louis area and not much
> elsewhere. There are other examples.

Yes, examples both ways. Red states really are not paradises.

> Which is why I wrote earlier about signal to noise ratio.
>
> Your situation in Oakland is very different from mine in Columbia County
> WI.

Which is why Tom should move out of that hellhole. Bitching about
Democrats isn't going to fix his life.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sunday, May 21, 2023 at 9:41:51 AM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Sun, 21 May 2023 12:28:24 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> >On 5/21/2023 5:49 AM, John B. wrote:
> > > On Sun, 21 May 2023 04:57:58 -0400, Catrike Rider
> > > <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
> > >
> > >> On Sat, 20 May 2023 20:16:46 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
> > >> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 8:32:58?PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
> > >>>> From here, reading the U.S. news, it does appear that the U.S. is
> > >>>> becoming more and more lawless.
> > >>>
> > >>> That appearance is more an effect of the news outlet policies than
> >reality.
> > >>> Many people have that fear even during the times of dropping crime.
> >Fear
> > >>> sells advertisement.
> > >>
> > >> Crime is not dropping..
> > >>
> > >>>> And certainly surveys of gun owners
> > >>>> seem to enforce that viewpoint with nearly 50% of gun owners surveyed
> > >>>> stated that they own a gun for protection.
> > >>>
> > >>> Right. They are responding to marketing, telling them that the world is
> > >>> horribly dangerous. And that they will be likely to save themselves by
> > >>> using their lightning-quick reflexes to blast away some bad guy.
> > >>>
> > >>> Let me ask seriously: Do you get the same sort of messages from media
> > >>> in Thailand? I'm also curious about Netherlands, Britain, etc.
> > >>>
> > >>> - Frank Krygowski
> > >
> > > The English Language news, here, prints relatively little U.S. or
> > > European news. Today there were total of 14 stories on the "front
> > > page" of the Bangkok Post's site. 11 were local news reported in some
> > > detail and 2 on a side bar relate to the Cannes Movie thing and 1
> > > referring to Johnny Depp (whoever he is).
> >
> >I should have been more specific. Do Thai news outlets engage in as much
> >fear mongering as U.S. news outlets? (And I'd also like to know whether
> >Dutch, German, British, Australian, Canadian news sources do the same.)
> >
> >Our local newspaper, like most in America, is a sad remnant of what it
> >once was. It doesn't do much national news; but if there's a multi-car
> >pileup on a Colorado freeway, our paper will probably mention it.
> >
> >But the online or TV news outlets are worst, instilling fear of events
> >thousands of miles away. A Tesla catches fire, a child catches Lyme
> >disease, a tornado hits a town center, or a distant gang member is shot
> >by another gang member. The subtext often is "It could happen to you!"
> >
> >I know there are financial reasons for this. It lures eyeballs because
> >people really are compelled to pay attention to bad news. That's been
> >explained in terms of evolution: For most of human existence, if you got
> >news of a nighttime leopard attack, it could only be because the leopard
> >was nearby. The news put you on alert and helped your family's survival.
> >
> >But today, we get news of a leopard attack in Africa, and react with
> >similar fear.
> You certainly are a fearful little man, Krygowski.
His courage all stands on the legs of being able to estimate his chances of being confronted by the people his would run from like a dog were he to face them.

On 5/21/2023 12:39 PM, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Sun, 21 May 2023 12:28:24 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> On 5/21/2023 5:49 AM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Sun, 21 May 2023 04:57:58 -0400, Catrike Rider
>>> <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 20 May 2023 20:16:46 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
>>>> <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 8:32:58?PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
>>>>>> From here, reading the U.S. news, it does appear that the U.S. is
>>>>>> becoming more and more lawless.
>>>>>
>>>>> That appearance is more an effect of the news outlet policies than
>> reality.
>>>>> Many people have that fear even during the times of dropping crime.
>> Fear
>>>>> sells advertisement.
>>>>
>>>> Crime is not dropping..
>>>>
>>>>>> And certainly surveys of gun owners
>>>>>> seem to enforce that viewpoint with nearly 50% of gun owners surveyed
>>>>>> stated that they own a gun for protection.
>>>>>
>>>>> Right. They are responding to marketing, telling them that the world is
>>>>> horribly dangerous. And that they will be likely to save themselves by
>>>>> using their lightning-quick reflexes to blast away some bad guy.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me ask seriously: Do you get the same sort of messages from media
>>>>> in Thailand? I'm also curious about Netherlands, Britain, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>
>>> The English Language news, here, prints relatively little U.S. or
>>> European news. Today there were total of 14 stories on the "front
>>> page" of the Bangkok Post's site. 11 were local news reported in some
>>> detail and 2 on a side bar relate to the Cannes Movie thing and 1
>>> referring to Johnny Depp (whoever he is).
>>
>> I should have been more specific. Do Thai news outlets engage in as much
>> fear mongering as U.S. news outlets? (And I'd also like to know whether
>> Dutch, German, British, Australian, Canadian news sources do the same.)
>>
>> Our local newspaper, like most in America, is a sad remnant of what it
>> once was. It doesn't do much national news; but if there's a multi-car
>> pileup on a Colorado freeway, our paper will probably mention it.
>>
>> But the online or TV news outlets are worst, instilling fear of events
>> thousands of miles away. A Tesla catches fire, a child catches Lyme
>> disease, a tornado hits a town center, or a distant gang member is shot
>> by another gang member. The subtext often is "It could happen to you!"
>>
>> I know there are financial reasons for this. It lures eyeballs because
>> people really are compelled to pay attention to bad news. That's been
>> explained in terms of evolution: For most of human existence, if you got
>> news of a nighttime leopard attack, it could only be because the leopard
>> was nearby. The news put you on alert and helped your family's survival.
>>
>> But today, we get news of a leopard attack in Africa, and react with
>> similar fear.
>
> You certainly are a fearful little man, Krygowski.

Bullshit, from the only wimp on this group so timid as to never ride
without a handgun, and to ride only on kiddie trails.

I ride in places that would make you soak your Depends. And I do it
without carrying a gun.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sun, 21 May 2023 08:57:47 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 5/20/2023 7:31 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Sat, 20 May 2023 13:48:37 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/20/2023 1:30 PM, pH wrote:
>>>> On 2023-05-19, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>> Turns out straight-up fraud works better than EPO !
>>>>>
>>>>> https://nypost.com/2023/05/19/trans-cyclist-alone-on-the-podium-after-winning-female-race/
>>>>
>>>> A local radio host (now passed on) had a saying which is becominng more
>>>> and more apropos....
>>>>
>>>> "We live in a world gone Mad."
>>>> -Stan Monteith
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> pH in Aptos
>>>>
>>> +1
>>> The sainted Bob Grant, "It's sick and getting sicker."
>>
>> From here, reading the U.S. news, it does appear that the U.S. is
>> becoming more and more lawless. And certainly surveys of gun owners
>> seem to enforce that viewpoint with nearly 50% of gun owners surveyed
>> stated that they own a gun for protection.
>>
>
>That may well be but I have no idea about the signal to
>noise ratio, what with modern data dispersal.
>
>Thailand just arrested a woman who poisoned 12 people with
>cyanide. That says nothing about Thai culture generally.

Yes, I don't know about the signal to noise ratio which is why I was
careful to say, "reading the U.S. news" as it is the only reference I
see here.

--
Cheers,

John B.