On 5/25/2023 5:43 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:

> Franks pretense that electronic groups are bad is strictly an uneducated opinion.

Yet again, you seem to be arguing against what you imagine I said.

I trust Lou's reports that the shifting is easy to set up and stays
adjusted. (Ahem: if properly installed, Tom.)

My personal taste is to stay away from unnecessary electronics, and from
exposed components that can't be repaired using tools I normally carry
on a bike. I can replace a derailleur cable on the road. I can't splice
a Di2 wire that snagged and broke.

Besides, what if I bought a Chinese wheelset and it came with a virus
that disabled my Di2 shifting? Or recorded it and reported it to Xi
Jinping?

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Tue, 23 May 2023 17:03:06 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

> In those circumstances gas
> or electric stoves and electric refrigerates ARE high tech (:-)

Now you're cooking with gas!

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at centurylink dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

On 5/25/2023 5:49 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Thursday, May 25, 2023 at 11:54:13 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
>> Rolf Mantel <ne...@hartig-mantel.de> writes:
>>
>>> I love my take-a-look mirror (it might be well over 20 years old
>>> now). Sadly, there was a long time I did not have any cycling shades
>>> with straight frame to fasten it onto.
>> Agreed, I have at least one spare, because I can't seem to keep track of
>> one for 20 years.
>
> The good rear view mirrors used to be sold by the inventor in Fremont, CA. He sold the business off and the one's made now aren't nearly as stable. Their construction seems to miss the need for a very tight plastic tube coupling and hence you get a lot of vibration into the mirror that wasn't there on the older versions.

Again, I've always made my own. I've also made all but one or two of my
wife's. Mine are stainless steel wire, bent to clip firmly onto the
glasses temple and to rigidly hold the plastic mirror element.

There's no flexible joint, so there's nothing to come out of adjustment
or focus. When I make a new one, it takes a few minutes to get it aimed
right, but then it's aimed forever.

The worst problem I've had with mine is losing them. They are so
inconspicuous that when I drop one, it becomes almost invisible.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Thu, 25 May 2023 22:29:10 -0400, Joy Beeson
<jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:

>On Tue, 23 May 2023 17:03:06 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>> In those circumstances gas
>> or electric stoves and electric refrigerates ARE high tech (:-)
>
>Now you're cooking with gas!

Well (:-) That Grandmother had the "summer stove" a kerosene multi
burner stove on the back porch. My other Grandmother had switched to
kerosene long before as they had a Furnace in the basement... which
heated the first floor, if I remember.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 5/25/2023 5:04 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> When did I even SUGGEST that I thought that the newer components would make me ride any better than my normal abilities?

Tom, you've given us years of details on your churning of frames, bikes
and components.

If you're not trying to make your riding better, why in hell are you
doing all the churning?

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Thu, 25 May 2023 17:57:08 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 5/25/2023 4:43 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> On Thursday, May 25, 2023 at 8:16:07 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 5/24/2023 8:49 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 24 May 2023 14:48:27 GMT, Roger Meriman <ro...@sarlet.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>> On 5/23/2023 2:42 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tue, 23 May 2023 05:09:40 -0000 (UTC), pH <wNOS...@gmail.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>> Huge snips
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Her point was that not all technology is beneficial to the things that
>>>>>> really matter in life. She mentioned some religious groups (not just
>>>>>> Amish) that put thought into which technologies are beneficial and which
>>>>>> are detrimental.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's not that they reject all technology. Instead, they attempt to
>>>>>> examine benefits vs. detriments and make rational decisions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The alternative is to slavishly jump on every new technology, based on
>>>>>> the latest fashion trends, or based on the glowing testimonials of
>>>>>> advertisers and reviews in magazines paid to carry the advertisements.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Twitter. TikTok. Snapchat. Disc brakes. Carbon fiber. Yet another rear
>>>>>> cog. Radar taillights. Foam hats. Whatever.
>>>>>>
>>>>> No one is, I’ve never had a Carbon Fibre bike nor realistically likely to,
>>>>> disks well as others I’ve always wanted better brakes both MTBing and on
>>>>> road.
>>>>>
>>>>> Less chain rings does seem to be less faff which more cogs at back allows
>>>>> plus bigger range and so on, but again I’m on 10s and not alone in this.
>>>>>
>>>>> Radar lights, does seem to work well ie warns of cars approaching very
>>>>> fast, but while cool technology I have no use for it. My road riding is
>>>>> often on roads I like which tends to be quieter roads, that’s the advantage
>>>>> of the Gravel bike you can pick and choose.
>>>>>
>>>>> Helmets it’s part of the uniform as you where, but I’m not bothered by them
>>>>> either way, I’m aware that their protection is limited but certainly the
>>>>> MTB ie peaked one’s are useful in other ways.
>>>>>
>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> But does the world "slavishly jump on every new technology" as our
>>>> resident "expert" has it, or do people decide for themselves what will
>>>> benefit them.
>>>>
>>>> There are innumerable examples of "innovations" that greatly benefit
>>>> one individual or group of individuals, which they "jump on", but
>>>> which another group might well demonize as "just a fad".
>>>>
>>>> I remember my maternal grandmother nagging her youngest daughter about
>>>> buying a NEW, MODERN, gas cooking stove as her (Granny's) wood cooking
>>>> stove was far more efficient then the new, modern, gas stove that
>>>> the daughter had just bought. You see, she argued, "the wood stove
>>>> keeps the kitchen warm and you can cook on it while your gas stove is
>>>> only good for cooking".
>>>>
>>>> Or the microwave oven. Or an electric can opener. Or even all those
>>>> gears for bicycles ( after all, the first guy to ride across the U.S.
>>>> did it on a single speed bicycle :-)
>>>>
>>> If advertising is so powerful, where are all the bikes with
>>> Dura Ace Ten?
>>>
>>> https://theradavist.com/dura-ace-10-pitch-pista-group/
>>>
>>> Clearly a great engineering breakthrough, but despite a lot
>>> of advertising, no consumer interest
>
>> I don't think that advertisements for bicycle components fall on deaf ears but the more expensive groups used to be bought by experienced cyclists rather than Jr. Pro wannabes. They tended to make their own minds up. With the rapid increase in cycling I think that newbees tended to go with rumors instead of experience. Franks pretense that electronic groups are bad is strictly an uneducated opinion. Once set up they STAY setup. They shift easier and better than manual groups and once installed can stay with only normal maintenance items like chains and cogs. Electronic groups performance-wise are head and shoulders above manual groups. You don't get what I got today - the front derailleur refusing to change rings unless you had the rear cog in the exact correct cog. After a shower I will have to readjust that.
>>
>> I don't want to plug in my bicycle but that is a strictly personal desire. Lou is happy with his Di2 and I certainly understand why. I did 2000 ft of climbing and 38 miles largely in the small ring because a lot of my courses are too steep for me to climb in the large ring unless I'm cross-chained. I don't think that this is going to change so what I have now is what I shall remain with. I intend to sell the Trek Alpha and the Cannondale Optimum gravel bike and retain the 5 steel bikes. with the other two gone I will have plenty of room for all of the steel bikes.
>>
>
>I disagree. Confirm with your LBS but in my experience top
>level equipment would never have enough volume to be viable
>without attorneys, doctors and dope dealers.

Long ago I was in my favorite bike shop in Bangkok and they had a
$1000 "racing bike", plastic I think it was, in the front of the shop
and I asked the Sales Girl, "Do you sell many of those?" And she
replied something like, "Once in a while?"
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Thu, 25 May 2023 16:28:43 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>Any comment on all those government PSAs? If advertising is
>so effective, you'd think 50 years of incessant "Wear a seat
>belt" on every station would have solved that problem by now.

Sure. It's called end of fiscal year budget burning. If there's some
money left unspent at the end of the year, it gets burned on all kinds
of marginal expenditures for no better reason than if it's not spent
this year, it won't be in the budget next year. PSA's are also
consider a form of "educating the public". However, PSA's are just a
tiny part of the problem:

"The federal government wastes at least $247 billion in taxpayer money
each year."
<https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/18/heres-how-the-federal-government-wastes-tax-money.html>
"In the federal government, everything is ‘Go spend more money’ and if
that doesn’t work, it’s ‘Go spend more money.’"

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Thu, 25 May 2023 21:31:34 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Thu, 25 May 2023 16:28:43 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>>Any comment on all those government PSAs? If advertising is
>>so effective, you'd think 50 years of incessant "Wear a seat
>>belt" on every station would have solved that problem by now.
>
>Sure. It's called end of fiscal year budget burning. If there's some
>money left unspent at the end of the year, it gets burned on all kinds
>of marginal expenditures for no better reason than if it's not spent
>this year, it won't be in the budget next year. PSA's are also
>consider a form of "educating the public". However, PSA's are just a
>tiny part of the problem:
>
>"The federal government wastes at least $247 billion in taxpayer money
>each year."
><https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/18/heres-how-the-federal-government-wastes-tax-money.html>
>"In the federal government, everything is ‘Go spend more money’ and if
>that doesn’t work, it’s ‘Go spend more money.’"

Yup, been there and seen it.

When I first "retired" I did some surveys for a U.S. company and one
guys I met had a son that was working on some sort of USAID or maybe
the Peace Corps. Anyway, he came back to Bangkok for a weekend and I
met him and asked him what he was doing "way up north". He told me
they were teaching the Thai's how to dig water wells.

I didn't say anything but to my knowledge Thai's had been digging
water wells for years and years before the USians arrived to teach
them how (:-)

The end of budget year thing, though, is a self perpetrating expense
as if you don't spend your allocated budget this year you will not get
as much money next year. Thus any competent manager makes sure that he
spends every penny of his budget, every year.

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Thu, 25 May 2023 21:48:18 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 5/25/2023 1:00 PM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>
>> So what? What and why other people other people buy is none of your
>> business. Why are you always sticking your nose in other people's
>> business?
>
>The gentleman from Florida doesn't seem to understand the concept of a
>_discussion_ group.
>
>Can someone please try to make him understand what "discussion" means?
>
>Use small words and short sentences.

Krygowski seemts to believe a discussion is where one can stick their
nose into someone elses business and tell them what they should do.

I doubt anyone joined this group so they could get unsolicited
"advice" from someone not even remotely qualified to offer it.

On Thu, 25 May 2023 23:05:39 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 5/25/2023 5:04 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> When did I even SUGGEST that I thought that the newer components would make me ride any better than my normal abilities?
>
>Tom, you've given us years of details on your churning of frames, bikes
>and components.
>
>If you're not trying to make your riding better, why in hell are you
>doing all the churning?

Probably because he enjoys doing it.

On Fri, 26 May 2023 04:17:15 -0400, Catrike Rider
<soloman@drafting.not> wrote:

>On Thu, 25 May 2023 21:48:18 -0400, Frank Krygowski
><frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>>On 5/25/2023 1:00 PM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>>
>>> So what? What and why other people other people buy is none of your
>>> business. Why are you always sticking your nose in other people's
>>> business?
>>
>>The gentleman from Florida doesn't seem to understand the concept of a
>>_discussion_ group.
>>
>>Can someone please try to make him understand what "discussion" means?
>>
>>Use small words and short sentences.
>
>
>Krygowski seemts to believe a discussion is where one can stick their
>nose into someone elses business and tell them what they should do.
>
>I doubt anyone joined this group so they could get unsolicited
>"advice" from someone not even remotely qualified to offer it.

See? You just don't understand. Our boy Frankie is a very
authoritative person. He used to be a school teacher and undoubtedly
stood up in the front of the room and ordered the kids around. .

But, unfortunately, those days are gone forever and there is no one to
dominate and so he comes here to flaunt his authority.

And is treated with the ridicule he so richly deserves.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Friday, May 26, 2023 at 4:18:48 AM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 5/25/2023 5:02 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 5/25/2023 11:57 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> On 5/25/2023 11:15 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>
> >>> If advertising is so powerful, where are all the bikes
> >>> with Dura Ace Ten?
> >>>
> >>> https://theradavist.com/dura-ace-10-pitch-pista-group/
> >>>
> >>> Clearly a great engineering breakthrough, but despite a
> >>> lot of advertising, no consumer interest
> >>
> >> If advertising does not work, why is _Bicycling_ magazine so
> >> full of advertising? Why does our local TV news feature so
> >> many expensive motor vehicle ads? How did Google become so
> >> profitable? (Google's revenue stream really is related to
> >> advertising.)
> >>
> >> Again, the high paid people running companies spend untold
> >> millions on advertising. All those dollars are voting
> >> against your one counterexample.
> >>
> >
> > Then again a certain Koren auto maker penetrated your brain...
> If you like, I can detail my decision making regarding the Kia.
>
> I used a simple chart (essentially a hand-drawn spreadsheet) listing
> range, price, inside dimensions, outside dimensions (our garage is not
> huge), plus a few other details such as the ability to mount bike racks.
> (Apparently the Nissan Leaf can't use anything but a hitch mounted bike
> rack.) At least one of the cars in that chart (Chevy Volt) were no
> longer available new, and if I'd decided on it I'd have shopped for a
> used one. And I did check Volt availability in the used car market.
>
> I compared cars from the used Volt or the Leaf at the low end, up to
> every model of Tesla at the high end. I'd narrowed it down to the Chevy
> Bolt or the Kia, which are quite close in specs. The Chevy salesman was
> bored and lackadaisical, didn't know the product, and wasted my time by
> saying two would arrive soon - then changing to "Oh, I guess we don't
> know when that first one's due. And the second one is still on the
> production line."
>
> The Kia salesman was very eager and quick to help, literally jogging
> away to check on availability, and hurried back to say "We can have one
> here in two days." The deciding factor was test-fitting our two folding
> bikes into the back along with two kids.
>
> I don't think ad-speak had any factor at all in my final decision. Oddly
> enough, Kia advertisements don't specify whether two folding bikes plus
> two kids and two adults will fit into a car.
>
> --
> - Frank Krygowski

Ah well so your decision is influenced by the smooth talk of the sales person.

Lou

Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
> On Thu, 25 May 2023 23:05:39 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> On 5/25/2023 5:04 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> When did I even SUGGEST that I thought that the newer components would
>>> make me ride any better than my normal abilities?
>>
>> Tom, you've given us years of details on your churning of frames, bikes
>> and components.
>>
>> If you're not trying to make your riding better, why in hell are you
>> doing all the churning?
>
> Probably because he enjoys doing it.
>

And hell at least it’s cycling content! It’s not what I do it would be sad
world if we all did the same!

Roger Merriman

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, May 25, 2023 at 3:03:24 AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
>> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, May 24, 2023 at 9:51:17 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> But does the world "slavishly jump on every new technology" as our
>>>> resident "expert" has it, or do people decide for themselves what will
>>>> benefit them.
>>>
>>> People certainly decide what they THINK will benefit them. My point is that
>>> many people make those decisions based on advertisements - and as I've
>>> pointed out in other posts, by whatever is in fashion. And many of those
>>> decisions are mistakes, such as wastes of money with no real benefits.
>>>
>>> I think we can contrast two posters to this group. One is a California guy who
>>> is noted for very frequently churning his bike and equipment choices. What
>>> do you suppose puts the ideas in his mind that each new bottom bracket,
>>> handlebar, gear change system etc. will make him ride like he's 30, or 40 or 50?
>>>
>>> Let's contrast him with a poster living in Thailand. How often has that guy churned
>>> through his equipment choices? How many surprisingly affordable Chinese aero
>>> wheels has he bought? How many electronic shifters has he tried? Are his
>>> latest handlebars less than a year old?
>>>
>>> Which of those guys would you say is paying more attention to advertising?
>>> Which of those guys would you say is more sensible?
>>>
>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>
>> Tom while he does change his kit, isn’t really a exponent of technology
>> he’s decidedly Luke warm on tubeless mind you road tubeless is marginal
>> gains and all that personally I feel.
>>
>> For my Gravel bike it’s for the win, even if when it goes tends to go big.
>> Hence I don’t trust it for the MTB, plus for that bike tubes just work.
>>
>> Also disks Tom isn’t keen at all, he also has steel bikes? Ie not Carbon.
>>
>> Your massively overstated the role of marketing, in terms of buying habits,
>> to be honest I think your fixed in your ways, I’m not saying all new stuff
>> is brilliant, because it isn’t but its worth being curious and interested
>> in technology.
>>
>> Personally stuff I like GPS computers and connected features and
>> navigation, though I have no desire to buy a new one just for free ride
>> climb pro, say.
>>
>> I’ve been impressed with tubeless does have it niggles ie repairs in the
>> field seem difficult what ever YouTube etc folks might say! But one the
>> whole it’s good in the right use.
>>
>> Disks well it’s a mature decades old technology, though have been impressed
>> by newer finned pads which keep the temperature impressively low and thus
>> reduce fade!
>>
>> Roger Merriman
> I find no gains marginal or otherwise if the rolling resistance of a tire
> with a latex tube is the same as a tubeless tire. What's more - tubeless
> tires are an absolute pain in the butt to get on the rims in sizes under
> 26 mm. And you have to carry one of those tubeless repair kits with
> "bacon" strips plus a tube if that is unsuccessful.

The only time this happened wouldn’t seal with the strips and nor could I
remove the valve so gave up at that point, luckily near a train station!
>
> Also normal rubber tubes only need to be pumped up every week or so while
> the tubeless I've used need every day pumping.

Not my experience they need to be pumped up in the first few weeks but
after that, much like tubes as and when though I generally do check before
I ride but I rarely ride it back to back days.
>
> I do not like disk brakes and I've owned MANY on and off-road versions.
> While rim brakes are every bit as strong, in very wet weather you have to
> ease the rim brakes on ahead of time to clear the rims of any water.
> Balance this with the extreme power of hydraulic disks that can easily
> lock - I have done this myself as well as in one of the recent stages of
> the Giro the peloton when down and the water carriers coming up from
> behind with PLENTY of room to stop locked the disks on wet roads and
> either fell or in one case went over the handlebars.

Off road it’s light and day, disks allow one to not be hauling on the bars.

On a nice dry day on summer best bike? It’s marginal, this said bigger
hills and so on a certainly easier with disks, plummeting down the mountain
last week was much easier on the Gravel bike and it’s disks as you can
brake late, lots of control which is handy threaded hairpin bends on way
down for cake and coffee!
>
> Unlike Frank, I have been willing to at least give new technology a try
> until I decide for myself if it is an improvement or nothing more than a
> change. If you have a 29er with a long wheelbase and a lot of weight
> disks are a good idea. But not on CX or gravel bikes because the
> wheelbase is too short and the weight too light. V-brakes work better.,
>

Roger Merriman

On Fri, 26 May 2023 12:30:04 GMT, Roger Meriman <roger@sarlet.com>
wrote:

>Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>> On Thu, 25 May 2023 23:05:39 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/25/2023 5:04 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> When did I even SUGGEST that I thought that the newer components would
>>>> make me ride any better than my normal abilities?
>>>
>>> Tom, you've given us years of details on your churning of frames, bikes
>>> and components.
>>>
>>> If you're not trying to make your riding better, why in hell are you
>>> doing all the churning?
>>
>> Probably because he enjoys doing it.
>>
>
>And hell at least it’s cycling content! It’s not what I do it would be sad
>world if we all did the same!
>
>Roger Merriman

+1

On Friday, May 26, 2023 at 4:17:18 AM UTC-4, floriduh dumbass wrote:
> On Thu, 25 May 2023 21:48:18 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> >On 5/25/2023 1:00 PM, Catrike Rider wrote:
> >>
> >> So what? What and why other people other people buy is none of your
> >> business. Why are you always sticking your nose in other people's
> >> business?
> >
> >The gentleman from Florida doesn't seem to understand the concept of a
> >_discussion_ group.
> >
> >Can someone please try to make him understand what "discussion" means?
> >
> >Use small words and short sentences.
> Krygowski seemts to believe a discussion is where one can stick their
> nose into someone elses business and tell them what they should do.

If floriduh dumbass had his way this group wouldn't exist since no one should ever have the right to comment on what other people write, oh...except for the floriduh dumbass of course, who is the only one here who has the right to tell others to mind their own business....hypocrite much?

useless fucking troll.....

>
> I doubt anyone joined this group so they could get unsolicited
> "advice" from someone not even remotely qualified to offer it.

You doubt a lot of things you're completely wrong about. How about you trying minding _your_ own fucking business, dumbass?

On Wednesday, May 24, 2023 at 7:39:57 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
> On Wed, 24 May 2023 03:59:42 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
> <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >On Tuesday, May 23, 2023 at 10:00:36?AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
> >> On Tue, 23 May 2023 04:22:30 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
> >> <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> >On Sunday, May 21, 2023 at 9:09:43?PM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >I haven't mentioned anything about _me_ being fearful. If you dispute
> >> >> >that, find the post where I said that, and link to it.
> >> >>
> >> >> You proclaimed, incorrectly, that people who had guns in their homes
> >> >> were more likely to get shot.
> >> >
> >> >Stated with links to studies and statistics, dumbass. Your response? "<snivel> no their not".
> >> >
> >> Actually gun and ownership and firearm homicide do not necessarily
> >> coincide.
> >>
> >> Arkansas has a gun ownership of 57.9% and a gun homicide rate of
> >> 3.7/100,000. Idaho has a gun ownership of 56.9% and a homicide rate of
> >> 1.5. 1% fewer guns and less then half the firearm murders.
> >>
> >> North Dakota has gun ownership of 47.9% and firearm murder rate of
> >> 1.2./100,000 while Maine has a gun ownership of 22.6 and a homicide
> >> are of 1.2.
> >>
> >> The data is out there. All you have to do is look (:-)
> >
> >Nice try jonny, Too bad those numbers don't actually address the issue.
> > 1- the key phrase is "in the home"
> > 2 - we aren't talking strictly abut homicides
> >
> >I'll leave that there just to see if you actually get it - I'm guessing not.
> Are you for real?
>
> I listed the gun ownership as a percent of the population. You argue
> that they aren't in the home. So tell us where are these guns owned by
> the population if not in the home? From above, 57.9% of the population
> of Arkansas owns a gun. So tell us oh great and noble nitwit, where do
> you think these guns are kept? Is there some giant locker in each town
> where everyone stores their gun(s) so that they don't have to carry
> them home?

As I said, you aren't getting it. Those homicides rates you love to quote aren't only in the home. Nether do they include accidental shootings in the home. That's the point here, oh great and noble nitwit.

>
> Or maybe you believe that Arkinsawyers go out and spend $2,000 for a
> nice deer rifle and leave it out in the car over night?
>
> Or perhaps you didn't think at all.

It's more likely that you keep commenting on what you _wish_ someone wrote rather than what they actually _did_ write.

> --
> Cheers,
>
> John B.

On Wednesday, May 24, 2023 at 7:40:59 AM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Wed, 24 May 2023 04:12:53 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
> <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >On Tuesday, May 23, 2023 at 11:45:32?AM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
> >> On Tue, 23 May 2023 04:22:30 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
> >> <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> >On Sunday, May 21, 2023 at 9:09:43?PM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >I haven't mentioned anything about _me_ being fearful. If you dispute
> >> >> >that, find the post where I said that, and link to it.
> >> >>
> >> >> You proclaimed, incorrectly, that people who had guns in their homes
> >> >> were more likely to get shot.
> >> >
> >> >Stated with links to studies and statistics, dumbass. Your response? "<snivel> no their not".
> >> >
> >> >> That's an admission that you fear
> >> >> having a gun in your home.
> >> >
> >> >Projection from the chickenshit afraid to ride without his gun.
> >> >
> >> >> >IOW, you're mimicking Kunich by either "remembering" wrongly or, more
> >> >> >likely, by deliberately lying.
> >> >> <LOL> Krygowski's gaslighting attempts are pathetic....
> >> >
> >> >We can add 'gasligting' to yet another concept the kitty the floriduh idiot doesn't understand.
> >> >
> >> >> >Again: You are afraid to claim a traffic lane when legal and necessary
> >> >> >for safety;
> >> >> Nope, I've done that.. more than once. It was a few years ago. I
> >> >> don't ride there any more.
> >> >
> >> >because you're afraid to.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> > that's what got you mad at me in the first place. You are
> >> >> >afraid to ride anywhere but on a paved bike trail in flat Florida.
> >> >> Nope... I routinely ride on rural roads. I did it just last Friday...
> >> >> >You
> >> >> >don't even have the courage to bike TO the trail.
> >> >> <LOL> Courage? No, it doesn't take courage, just a desire to stay
> >> >> off a nasty, potholed road or the cement sidewalk/bike trail alongside
> >> >> it. The sidewalk has a seam every few feet and several driveway
> >> >> depressions to traverse.
> >> >
> >> >OOOOHHH!!!! How scary!!!!! Seams in the roads and driveways!!!! Too bad your big bad gun can't protect you from those!!!
> >> >
> >> >> >You are afraid to do
> >> >> >even that riding without carrying a gun.
> >> >> A wise move, on my part, says the local LEO.
> >> >
> >> >Because they take one look a a guy on a tricycle with a gun and say "yeah, you should stay as far away from other people as possible"
> >> >
> >> >> >You are afraid to enter into
> >> >> >conversations with others when you ride.
> >> >> Huh? You can't converse when you're riding solo.
> >> >
> >> >You can if you weren't afraid of talking to other people you see when you ride, dumbass.
> >> >
> >> >> >No other poster here has all those limitations, which makes you our most
> >> >> >cowardly poster.
> >> >> Except you, who is afraid to attach your feet to the bike's pedals.
> >> >> It's not all that hard, maybe you could take some lessons.
> >> >
> >> >Sure, let's equate not being comfortable with clipless pedals with being afraid to ride without a gun, dumbass....Besides, you've repeated explained why you're afraid to ride with _out_ being clipped in.
> >> >
> >> >> > Don't claim to be tough and brave, it's not working.
> >> >> Never have..
> >> >>
> >> >> But then, unlike me, you've never gone off sailing in the Caribbean
> >> >> all alone for several months. Unlike me, you've never gone scuba
> >> >> diving amongst sharks. You've never been brave enough to hike and camp
> >> >> solo in the high Rocky Moutains where there are grizzleys, like I
> >> >> have. Have you ever surprised a moose and had her come after you?
> >> >
> >> >Taking lessons from the shit-stained irish troll now.....What's next? paratrooping into a war zone?
> >> >
> >> >> >And drop the psychological projection, attributing your own cowardice to
> >> >> >others.
> >> >> You've never had the courage to do anything the slightest bit
> >> >> adventurous. You're afraid of being alone. You need you're your social
> >> >> relationships like fish need water.
> >> >
> >> >Frank has documented (published) his extensive cycling experiences.
> Of course, a narcissist would have to do that...

no, someone who actually experienced life, rather then just braggin about it without any proof - you narcissist.

> >> <LOL> ...and riding a bicycle is so adventurous.
> >
> >Many people consider it to be so, including me, asshole.
> <LOL>
>
>
> adventure
> 1 of 2
> noun
> ad·?ven·?ture ?d-'ven-ch?r
> Synonyms of adventure
> 1
> a
> an undertaking usually involving danger and unknown risks
> a book recounting his many bold adventures
> b
> the encountering of risks
> the spirit of adventure
> 2
> an exciting or remarkable experience
> an adventure in exotic dining
> They were looking for adventure.
> 3
> an enterprise involving financial risk
> wanted to pay off her debts before embarking on any new financial
> adventures
>
> https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/adventure
>
>
> <CHUCKLE> What a monotonous life you must be having....

Says the tricyle rider who only rides on bike paths.

> >If you don't think it is, why the fuck are you here?
> Certainly not for adventure. Reading and talking about bicycle tech
> doesn't seem very adventurous to me, but then, I've actually ventured
> out beyond my mother's skirts a few times.

And very clearly ducked right back under them when you realized you were afraid to face life without a gun - chickenshit.

> >So we have a floriduh dumbass writing in a public discussion forum (allegedly) dedicated to cycling, who hates interacting with people and ridicules the idea that cycling can be 'adventurous'.
> Well, perhaps, bicycling down a hill at 60 MPH, but that wouldn't
> require anything other than foolishness.

Why? are you afraid? I've also raced in criteriums bumping shoulders in full sprints and corners at 40 mph. You post a quote above "an undertaking usually involving danger and unknown risks" but then state actually doing that only requires foolishness. If you beleive adventure is "an undertaking usually involving danger and unknown risks", what great risks have you ever taken that don't qualify as foolishess? Gawd yer a fucking idiot.

> > IOW - just another vapid troll who's life is so empty and meaningless he has to act out in a forum where he can't be banned.
> >
> >Fucking useless....

Q.E.D.

On Wednesday, May 24, 2023 at 7:43:18 AM UTC-4, floriduh dumbass wrote:
> On Wed, 24 May 2023 04:06:55 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
> <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >On Tuesday, May 23, 2023 at 11:44:27?AM UTC-4, floriduh dumbass wrote:
> >> On Tue, 23 May 2023 11:17:31 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> >> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On 5/23/2023 10:00 AM, John B. wrote:
> >> >
> >> > >
> >> > > Actually gun and ownership and firearm homicide do not necessarily
> >> > > coincide.
> >> >
> >> >Nobody here has ever claimed that gun ownership _necessarily_ means a
> >> >homicide will follow. That's not what data analysis says. In fact,
> >> >that's not the sort of statement that comes from any analysis of any
> >> >population data on any topic.
> >> >
> >> >You find a couple rural states with lots of two barrelled hunting
> >> >shotguns, and extrapolate to guns with high capacity magazines in cities
> >> >and suburbs. Those are not comparable.
> >> >
> >> >And there are people posting here who find some bit of outlier evidence
> >> >and think it refutes tens of thousands of data points.
> >> >
> >> >I'm guessing those people are the ones making the various state lottery
> >> >programs so profitable.
> >> Coorelation is not causation..
> >
> >nope, never is....that's why you shouldn't worry about riding your tricycle over broken glass....dumbass.
> Junior doesn't even understand the term..

"correlation is not causation, never was, never will be" - floriduh dumbass

> >> All the tens of thousands of data points show is that people who get
> >> shot, are likely to have guns themselves.
> >
> >no, that's _not_ what it says. Not surprising floriduh dumbass doesn't get it.
> That's exactly what it says, and nothing more, Dummy

No matter how many times you repeat that to yourself, it won't be come true, dumbass.

On Fri, 26 May 2023 06:29:07 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
<funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, May 24, 2023 at 7:39:57?AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
>> On Wed, 24 May 2023 03:59:42 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
>> <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >On Tuesday, May 23, 2023 at 10:00:36?AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
>> >> On Tue, 23 May 2023 04:22:30 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
>> >> <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >On Sunday, May 21, 2023 at 9:09:43?PM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >I haven't mentioned anything about _me_ being fearful. If you dispute
>> >> >> >that, find the post where I said that, and link to it.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> You proclaimed, incorrectly, that people who had guns in their homes
>> >> >> were more likely to get shot.
>> >> >
>> >> >Stated with links to studies and statistics, dumbass. Your response? "<snivel> no their not".
>> >> >
>> >> Actually gun and ownership and firearm homicide do not necessarily
>> >> coincide.
>> >>
>> >> Arkansas has a gun ownership of 57.9% and a gun homicide rate of
>> >> 3.7/100,000. Idaho has a gun ownership of 56.9% and a homicide rate of
>> >> 1.5. 1% fewer guns and less then half the firearm murders.
>> >>
>> >> North Dakota has gun ownership of 47.9% and firearm murder rate of
>> >> 1.2./100,000 while Maine has a gun ownership of 22.6 and a homicide
>> >> are of 1.2.
>> >>
>> >> The data is out there. All you have to do is look (:-)
>> >
>> >Nice try jonny, Too bad those numbers don't actually address the issue.
>> > 1- the key phrase is "in the home"
>> > 2 - we aren't talking strictly abut homicides
>> >
>> >I'll leave that there just to see if you actually get it - I'm guessing not.
>> Are you for real?
>>
>> I listed the gun ownership as a percent of the population. You argue
>> that they aren't in the home. So tell us where are these guns owned by
>> the population if not in the home? From above, 57.9% of the population
>> of Arkansas owns a gun. So tell us oh great and noble nitwit, where do
>> you think these guns are kept? Is there some giant locker in each town
>> where everyone stores their gun(s) so that they don't have to carry
>> them home?
>
>As I said, you aren't getting it. Those homicides rates you love to quote aren't only in the home. Nether do they include accidental shootings in the home. That's the point here, oh great and noble nitwit.
>
An interesting comment. Well, lets see... do you understand the word
"homicide"? For your information the dictionary tells us that it
means... "the killing of one person by another". You don't believe
that an accidental killing of a person my another person is a
homicide?

Next" The homicide rate listed represents all the homicides for the
period. In the house, out in the barn, walking down the road. Now,
when one state has a firearm homicide rate of 1.2/100,000 population
and another has a rate of 3.7 per 100,000 is it logical to believe
that as all homicides are 3 times greater that homicides in the home
might be greater also?

No, you probably don't as you don't seem to know much about anything.
Granted you do make a lot of noise but noise, per se, doesn't indicate
anything at all, well except that you are boring.

I'd tell you to go away but I know that you won't as like the Afro guy
you get your jollies by writing what can be termed "a bunch of bull
shit" and then you stick your chest out and prance around the house
bragging to your mother, "See Mom!" "See what I did!" And your Mommy
replies, "be sure to flush the toilet after you use it".
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 5/25/2023 8:48 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 5/25/2023 1:00 PM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>
>> So what? What and why other people other people buy is
>> none of your
>> business. Why are you always sticking your nose in other
>> people's
>> business?
>
> The gentleman from Florida doesn't seem to understand the
> concept of a _discussion_ group.
>
> Can someone please try to make him understand what
> "discussion" means?
>
> Use small words and short sentences.
>

Yes, everyone's opinions here have value, whether we agree
or not (and sometimes moreso to establish counterarguments).
Which is much preferred to a 'moderated group' which normal
people call censorship.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Fri, 26 May 2023 09:11:17 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 5/25/2023 8:48 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 5/25/2023 1:00 PM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>>
>>> So what? What and why other people other people buy is
>>> none of your
>>> business. Why are you always sticking your nose in other
>>> people's
>>> business?
>>
>> The gentleman from Florida doesn't seem to understand the
>> concept of a _discussion_ group.
>>
>> Can someone please try to make him understand what
>> "discussion" means?
>>
>> Use small words and short sentences.
>>
>
>Yes, everyone's opinions here have value, whether we agree
>or not (and sometimes moreso to establish counterarguments).
>Which is much preferred to a 'moderated group' which normal
>people call censorship.

I'm all in favor of exchanging ideas and opinions. I have no problem
when a person explains what he does and why he does it, I chafe a bit
when someone tells me that what I do is all wrong and wants me to
defend what I do and argue with him about it.

That's way more than an exchange of ideas and opinions.

Am 26.05.2023 um 16:11 schrieb AMuzi:
> On 5/25/2023 8:48 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 5/25/2023 1:00 PM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>>
>>> So what?  What and why other people other people buy is
>>> none of your
>>> business.  Why are you always sticking your nose in other
>>> people's
>>> business?
>>
>> The gentleman from Florida doesn't seem to understand the
>> concept of a _discussion_ group.
>>
>> Can someone please try to make him understand what
>> "discussion" means?
>>
>> Use small words and short sentences.
>
> Yes, everyone's opinions here have value, whether we agree or not (and
> sometimes moreso to establish counterarguments). Which is much preferred
> to a 'moderated group' which normal people call censorship.

I personally think that discussions have value but insults no not have
any value. In an un-censored medium we must suffer insults but it
greatly reduces the pleasure of reading.

Please, just consider: if every name is anonymized by 'XXX', is it still
worth reading what's left over from your argument?

On 5/26/2023 8:25 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Friday, May 26, 2023 at 4:18:48 AM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 5/25/2023 5:02 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 5/25/2023 11:57 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>> On 5/25/2023 11:15 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> If advertising is so powerful, where are all the bikes
>>>>> with Dura Ace Ten?
>>>>>
>>>>> https://theradavist.com/dura-ace-10-pitch-pista-group/
>>>>>
>>>>> Clearly a great engineering breakthrough, but despite a
>>>>> lot of advertising, no consumer interest
>>>>
>>>> If advertising does not work, why is _Bicycling_ magazine so
>>>> full of advertising? Why does our local TV news feature so
>>>> many expensive motor vehicle ads? How did Google become so
>>>> profitable? (Google's revenue stream really is related to
>>>> advertising.)
>>>>
>>>> Again, the high paid people running companies spend untold
>>>> millions on advertising. All those dollars are voting
>>>> against your one counterexample.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Then again a certain Koren auto maker penetrated your brain...
>> If you like, I can detail my decision making regarding the Kia.
>>
>> I used a simple chart (essentially a hand-drawn spreadsheet) listing
>> range, price, inside dimensions, outside dimensions (our garage is not
>> huge), plus a few other details such as the ability to mount bike racks.
>> (Apparently the Nissan Leaf can't use anything but a hitch mounted bike
>> rack.) At least one of the cars in that chart (Chevy Volt) were no
>> longer available new, and if I'd decided on it I'd have shopped for a
>> used one. And I did check Volt availability in the used car market.
>>
>> I compared cars from the used Volt or the Leaf at the low end, up to
>> every model of Tesla at the high end. I'd narrowed it down to the Chevy
>> Bolt or the Kia, which are quite close in specs. The Chevy salesman was
>> bored and lackadaisical, didn't know the product, and wasted my time by
>> saying two would arrive soon - then changing to "Oh, I guess we don't
>> know when that first one's due. And the second one is still on the
>> production line."
>>
>> The Kia salesman was very eager and quick to help, literally jogging
>> away to check on availability, and hurried back to say "We can have one
>> here in two days." The deciding factor was test-fitting our two folding
>> bikes into the back along with two kids.
>>
>> I don't think ad-speak had any factor at all in my final decision. Oddly
>> enough, Kia advertisements don't specify whether two folding bikes plus
>> two kids and two adults will fit into a car.
>>
>> --
>> - Frank Krygowski
>
> Ah well so your decision is influenced by the smooth talk of the sales person.

:-) Nice try! But the decision would have been the same if the salesman
had a severe stutter or spoke badly translated English. The deciding
factor was that the car was immediately available (at a time they were
hard to find); also, he took the initiative to get it in ASAP.

FWIW, I probably would have preferred to buy the Chevy, to support
American manufacturing, but I was not interested in an undetermined
waiting time. As it turns out, this Kia has a feature not available on
the Chevy: A heat pump for winter heating, as opposed to pure resistance
heating. I'm happy to have that.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Friday, May 26, 2023 at 5:25:43 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 5/26/2023 8:25 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > On Friday, May 26, 2023 at 4:18:48 AM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> On 5/25/2023 5:02 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> >>> On 5/25/2023 11:57 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>>> On 5/25/2023 11:15 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If advertising is so powerful, where are all the bikes
> >>>>> with Dura Ace Ten?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://theradavist.com/dura-ace-10-pitch-pista-group/
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Clearly a great engineering breakthrough, but despite a
> >>>>> lot of advertising, no consumer interest
> >>>>
> >>>> If advertising does not work, why is _Bicycling_ magazine so
> >>>> full of advertising? Why does our local TV news feature so
> >>>> many expensive motor vehicle ads? How did Google become so
> >>>> profitable? (Google's revenue stream really is related to
> >>>> advertising.)
> >>>>
> >>>> Again, the high paid people running companies spend untold
> >>>> millions on advertising. All those dollars are voting
> >>>> against your one counterexample.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Then again a certain Koren auto maker penetrated your brain...
> >> If you like, I can detail my decision making regarding the Kia.
> >>
> >> I used a simple chart (essentially a hand-drawn spreadsheet) listing
> >> range, price, inside dimensions, outside dimensions (our garage is not
> >> huge), plus a few other details such as the ability to mount bike racks.
> >> (Apparently the Nissan Leaf can't use anything but a hitch mounted bike
> >> rack.) At least one of the cars in that chart (Chevy Volt) were no
> >> longer available new, and if I'd decided on it I'd have shopped for a
> >> used one. And I did check Volt availability in the used car market.
> >>
> >> I compared cars from the used Volt or the Leaf at the low end, up to
> >> every model of Tesla at the high end. I'd narrowed it down to the Chevy
> >> Bolt or the Kia, which are quite close in specs. The Chevy salesman was
> >> bored and lackadaisical, didn't know the product, and wasted my time by
> >> saying two would arrive soon - then changing to "Oh, I guess we don't
> >> know when that first one's due. And the second one is still on the
> >> production line."
> >>
> >> The Kia salesman was very eager and quick to help, literally jogging
> >> away to check on availability, and hurried back to say "We can have one
> >> here in two days." The deciding factor was test-fitting our two folding
> >> bikes into the back along with two kids.
> >>
> >> I don't think ad-speak had any factor at all in my final decision. Oddly
> >> enough, Kia advertisements don't specify whether two folding bikes plus
> >> two kids and two adults will fit into a car.
> >>
> >> --
> >> - Frank Krygowski
> >
> > Ah well so your decision is influenced by the smooth talk of the sales person.
> :-) Nice try! But the decision would have been the same if the salesman
> had a severe stutter or spoke badly translated English. The deciding
> factor was that the car was immediately available (at a time they were
> hard to find); also, he took the initiative to get it in ASAP.
>
> FWIW, I probably would have preferred to buy the Chevy, to support
> American manufacturing, but I was not interested in an undetermined
> waiting time. As it turns out, this Kia has a feature not available on
> the Chevy: A heat pump for winter heating, as opposed to pure resistance
> heating. I'm happy to have that.
>
> --
> - Frank Krygowski

Hmm, I am dissapointed you didn’t know about a heat pump. It is currently almost a must have.

Lou