On 10/13/2022 8:15 AM, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
> On 12/10/2022 18.34, Quadibloc wrote:
>> On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 8:50:35 AM UTC-6, Kevrob wrote:
>
>>> Should the government have such power?
>>> That's entirely another question.
>
>> Given the importance of being able to evacuate major cities quickly
>> in the event of a nuclear attack in the Cold War, it's hard for me to
>> even
>> entertain an argument against it.
>
> I lived in a major metropolitan area for nearly four decades. The thought
> of "evacuat[ing] major cities quickly" is absurd, as may be seen every
> workday afternoon. And that's only a small part of the population heading
> out.
>
> I think that the portrayals of evacuations in _Independence Day_ are, if
> anything, understated.

The evacuations of people trying to get away from the eastern seaboard
of the USA in the "Deep Impact" movie were impressive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRifOqptZPI

Millions of people tried to evacuate from Houston when hurricane Rita
was forecasted to come ashore at Houston in 2005. Most of them turned
around and came back home after sitting on the freeways and interstates
for many hours.

Lynn

On Thu, 13 Oct 2022 18:12:51 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 10/13/2022 8:15 AM, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
>> On 12/10/2022 18.34, Quadibloc wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 8:50:35 AM UTC-6, Kevrob wrote:
>>
>>>> Should the government have such power?
>>>> That's entirely another question.
>>
>>> Given the importance of being able to evacuate major cities quickly
>>> in the event of a nuclear attack in the Cold War, it's hard for me to
>>> even
>>> entertain an argument against it.
>>
>> I lived in a major metropolitan area for nearly four decades. The thought
>> of "evacuat[ing] major cities quickly" is absurd, as may be seen every
>> workday afternoon. And that's only a small part of the population heading
>> out.
>>
>> I think that the portrayals of evacuations in _Independence Day_ are, if
>> anything, understated.
>
>The evacuations of people trying to get away from the eastern seaboard
>of the USA in the "Deep Impact" movie were impressive.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRifOqptZPI

The 1953 /War of the Worlds/ includes the evacuation of Los Angeles.
It showed the freeways, the use of buses -- and the people left
behind.

>Millions of people tried to evacuate from Houston when hurricane Rita
>was forecasted to come ashore at Houston in 2005. Most of them turned
>around and came back home after sitting on the freeways and interstates
>for many hours.

Sensible.
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> writes:
>On Thu, 13 Oct 2022 18:12:51 -0500, Lynn McGuire
><lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On 10/13/2022 8:15 AM, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
>>> On 12/10/2022 18.34, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 8:50:35 AM UTC-6, Kevrob wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Should the government have such power?
>>>>> That's entirely another question.
>>>
>>>> Given the importance of being able to evacuate major cities quickly
>>>> in the event of a nuclear attack in the Cold War, it's hard for me to
>>>> even
>>>> entertain an argument against it.
>>>
>>> I lived in a major metropolitan area for nearly four decades. The thought
>>> of "evacuat[ing] major cities quickly" is absurd, as may be seen every
>>> workday afternoon. And that's only a small part of the population heading
>>> out.
>>>
>>> I think that the portrayals of evacuations in _Independence Day_ are, if
>>> anything, understated.
>>
>>The evacuations of people trying to get away from the eastern seaboard
>>of the USA in the "Deep Impact" movie were impressive.
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRifOqptZPI
>
>The 1953 /War of the Worlds/ includes the evacuation of Los Angeles.
>It showed the freeways, the use of buses -- and the people left
>behind.

If you're not familiar with the LA Basin, there are basically
five major routes out of the basin - US101 and I5 heading north,
I15 and I10 heading east and I5 south to San Diego.

I5N and I15 both cross mountain ranges.

scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
news:zIf2L.337691$9Yp5.161517@fx12.iad:

> Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> writes:
>>On Thu, 13 Oct 2022 18:12:51 -0500, Lynn McGuire
>><lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On 10/13/2022 8:15 AM, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
>>>> On 12/10/2022 18.34, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 8:50:35 AM UTC-6, Kevrob
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Should the government have such power?
>>>>>> That's entirely another question.
>>>>
>>>>> Given the importance of being able to evacuate major cities
>>>>> quickly in the event of a nuclear attack in the Cold War,
>>>>> it's hard for me to even
>>>>> entertain an argument against it.
>>>>
>>>> I lived in a major metropolitan area for nearly four decades.
>>>> The thought of "evacuat[ing] major cities quickly" is absurd,
>>>> as may be seen every workday afternoon. And that's only a
>>>> small part of the population heading out.
>>>>
>>>> I think that the portrayals of evacuations in _Independence
>>>> Day_ are, if anything, understated.
>>>
>>>The evacuations of people trying to get away from the eastern
>>>seaboard of the USA in the "Deep Impact" movie were impressive.
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRifOqptZPI
>>
>>The 1953 /War of the Worlds/ includes the evacuation of Los
>>Angeles. It showed the freeways, the use of buses -- and the
>>people left behind.
>
> If you're not familiar with the LA Basin, there are basically
> five major routes out of the basin - US101 and I5 heading north,
> I15 and I10 heading east and I5 south to San Diego.
>
> I5N and I15 both cross mountain ranges.
>
And all five are bumper to bumper at less than 30 mph (often less
than 10) during a normal rush hour.

Nobody who doesn't have their own personal helicopter is evacuating
LA in an emergency.

--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> writes:
>scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
>news:zIf2L.337691$9Yp5.161517@fx12.iad:
>

>>>The 1953 /War of the Worlds/ includes the evacuation of Los
>>>Angeles. It showed the freeways, the use of buses -- and the
>>>people left behind.
>>
>> If you're not familiar with the LA Basin, there are basically
>> five major routes out of the basin - US101 and I5 heading north,
>> I15 and I10 heading east and I5 south to San Diego.
>>
>> I5N and I15 both cross mountain ranges.
>>
>And all five are bumper to bumper at less than 30 mph (often less
>than 10) during a normal rush hour.

And don't even try I15 on a friday afternoon...

In article <Wmg2L.87129$1Ly7.38991@fx34.iad>,
Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net> wrote:
>Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> writes:
>>scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
>>news:zIf2L.337691$9Yp5.161517@fx12.iad:
>>
>
>>>>The 1953 /War of the Worlds/ includes the evacuation of Los
>>>>Angeles. It showed the freeways, the use of buses -- and the
>>>>people left behind.
>>>
>>> If you're not familiar with the LA Basin, there are basically
>>> five major routes out of the basin - US101 and I5 heading north,
>>> I15 and I10 heading east and I5 south to San Diego.
>>>
>>> I5N and I15 both cross mountain ranges.
>>>
>>And all five are bumper to bumper at less than 30 mph (often less
>>than 10) during a normal rush hour.
>
>And don't even try I15 on a friday afternoon...

(Hal Heydt)
Plus...I5, I10 and I15 didn't exist when the film was made.

On Friday, October 14, 2022 at 2:51:58 PM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <Wmg2L.87129$1Ly7....@fx34.iad>,
> Scott Lurndal <sl...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> >Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taus...@gmail.com> writes:
> >>sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
> >>news:zIf2L.337691$9Yp5....@fx12.iad:
> >>
> >
> >>>>The 1953 /War of the Worlds/ includes the evacuation of Los
> >>>>Angeles. It showed the freeways, the use of buses -- and the
> >>>>people left behind.
> >>>
> >>> If you're not familiar with the LA Basin, there are basically
> >>> five major routes out of the basin - US101 and I5 heading north,
> >>> I15 and I10 heading east and I5 south to San Diego.
> >>>
> >>> I5N and I15 both cross mountain ranges.
> >>>
> >>And all five are bumper to bumper at less than 30 mph (often less
> >>than 10) during a normal rush hour.
> >
> >And don't even try I15 on a friday afternoon...
> (Hal Heydt)
> Plus...I5, I10 and I15 didn't exist when the film was made.

However, in 1953, Metro LA had 'only' 4.6 million people. It's now 12.5M.

pt

On Wed, 12 Oct 2022 15:47:24 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

>>> To the best of my knowledge, the Ukrainians want the bridge
>>> *gone*.
>>
>> I'm sure that will be near the top of their list of Things To Do once
>> they have defeated Russia and won the war. In the meantime, there's
>> strategic advantage to damaging it enough to be unusualbe, but not
>> enough to be unrepairable, and the Ukranians intend to *win*.
>
>"Winning" in Ukraine will be shortly followed by all dying in nuclear fire.

Not really all that surprising since the bridge in question was a
personal project of Putin back in 2017-18 and as such carries his
prestige in Russia. It wasn't a "mega-project" like the Canadian
Confederation Bridge (this is the one connecting Prince Edward Island
to the mainland) but still pretty big.

No one denies that the eastern end of the bridge is Russian territory
but the western end is definitely part of Crimea.

For what it's worth, this specific location was the subject of about
the only amphibious assault made by the Red Army in 1942 against the
Germans in the whole course of their 1941-45 war. (And promptly
abandoned during the Stalingrad campaign but recaptured in the spring
of 1943)

For an old military history buff like me there are a LOT of very
familiar Ukranian names in the news that I remember due to battles
fought there 1941-45. Izyum is another familiar name due to battles
fought there in 1942-43.

On Wed, 12 Oct 2022 19:15:04 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 10/12/2022 6:44 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
>> On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 2:47:29 PM UTC-6, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>
>>> "Winning" in Ukraine will be shortly followed by all dying in nuclear fire.
>>
>> Only if Russia wants that to happen to it.
>>
>> John Savard
>
>True that.

Obviously what Putin most wants is an immediate surrender and a
victory parade in Kiev.

What he wants and what he's likely to get are two quite different
things.

What >I'm< worried about is that the outcome of this war is going to
turn Russia into a Chinese satellite that dances at Mr Xi's command.

On Thu, 13 Oct 2022 03:41:54 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

>In article <05c54a8f-352a-4aa0-a696-2e3476ed5be4n@googlegroups.com>,
>Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 6:46:54 PM UTC-6, Hal Heydt wrote:
>>
>>> Only Putin is crazy enough to want that to happen, everybody in
>>> the chain of command carries out the orders, *and* all the
>>> relevant equipment actually works.
>>
>>I'll have to admit that I'm not overly optimistic about the second and
>>third "if"s there. South Korean flight 007 got shot down when it got too
>>near Sakhalin - the Russian military is trained to obey orders - *and* that
>>disobedience endangers their famililes, not just themselves. And a nuclear
>>strike against the U.S. only requires _most_ of the missiles launched to
>>work.
>>
>>It's to Putin's advantage to pretend to be crazier than he actually is, but he
>>has to have been at least somewhat crazy to start this in the first place.
>>And if he has reason to think that he will die anyways, taking the whole world
>>with him is... still evil, but not so much irrational, any more.
>>
>>Well, then: if we want to be _absolutely_ sure that World War III doesn't
>>happen, we had better ask Ukraine to... negotiate peace, shouldn't we?
>>
>>The problem with that is that Russia has made it very clear what its terms
>>are for an "acceptable" peace:
>>
>>1) No security in place in Ukraine that stops Russia from invading it in future
>>any time it feels like it; and
>>
>>2) A change of government in Ukraine, so that it is ruled by a puppet of Putin,
>>who has shown how much he cares about Ukrainins by hitting their civilians
>>with missiles.
>
>(Hal Heydt)
>Putin's version of an acceptable "peace" is Ukraine absorbed into
>and under the thumb of Russia, regardless of how many dead or
>scattered Ukrainians that takes.
>
>The only questions that remain are what he is willing to do to get
>that, and whether or not his military can or will deliver it for
>him.
>
>Not surprisingly, Ukrainians aren't interested in that scneario.

Really? You don't say. What WERE the last 8 months about anyways?

On Friday, October 14, 2022 at 4:07:51 PM UTC-4, The Horny Goat wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Oct 2022 15:47:24 -0500, Lynn McGuire
> <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>

>
> For an old military history buff like me there are a LOT of very
> familiar Ukranian names in the news that I remember due to battles
> fought there 1941-45. Izyum is another familiar name due to battles
> fought there in 1942-43.

I am not remotely as familiar with that campaign as you are, but even for
me there's been a lot of "history does not repeat itself, but it rhymes".

Khrushchev in his memoirs writes of seeing Kiev from the air, abandoned by the
Germans but on fire here and there. It's an effective piece of writing by
K and/or his translator. But he also comments that it would have been
very difficult and costly to take had the nazis been prepared to defend
it. A thought that was somewhat consoling this spring.

William Hyde

djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>In article <Wmg2L.87129$1Ly7.38991@fx34.iad>,
>Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> writes:
>>>scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
>>>news:zIf2L.337691$9Yp5.161517@fx12.iad:
>>>
>>
>>>>>The 1953 /War of the Worlds/ includes the evacuation of Los
>>>>>Angeles. It showed the freeways, the use of buses -- and the
>>>>>people left behind.
>>>>
>>>> If you're not familiar with the LA Basin, there are basically
>>>> five major routes out of the basin - US101 and I5 heading north,
>>>> I15 and I10 heading east and I5 south to San Diego.
>>>>
>>>> I5N and I15 both cross mountain ranges.
>>>>
>>>And all five are bumper to bumper at less than 30 mph (often less
>>>than 10) during a normal rush hour.
>>
>>And don't even try I15 on a friday afternoon...
>
>(Hal Heydt)
>Plus...I5, I10 and I15 didn't exist when the film was made.

The county had a population of 4.1 million in 1950 (which was
40% of the entire state), and 10 million in 2020.

On 10/14/2022 3:43 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>> In article <Wmg2L.87129$1Ly7.38991@fx34.iad>,
>> Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>> Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
>>>> news:zIf2L.337691$9Yp5.161517@fx12.iad:
>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> The 1953 /War of the Worlds/ includes the evacuation of Los
>>>>>> Angeles. It showed the freeways, the use of buses -- and the
>>>>>> people left behind.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you're not familiar with the LA Basin, there are basically
>>>>> five major routes out of the basin - US101 and I5 heading north,
>>>>> I15 and I10 heading east and I5 south to San Diego.
>>>>>
>>>>> I5N and I15 both cross mountain ranges.
>>>>>
>>>> And all five are bumper to bumper at less than 30 mph (often less
>>>> than 10) during a normal rush hour.
>>>
>>> And don't even try I15 on a friday afternoon...
>>
>> (Hal Heydt)
>> Plus...I5, I10 and I15 didn't exist when the film was made.
>
> The county had a population of 4.1 million in 1950 (which was
> 40% of the entire state), and 10 million in 2020.

Just another freaking ant hill like Houston.

Lynn

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>On 10/14/2022 3:43 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>>> In article <Wmg2L.87129$1Ly7.38991@fx34.iad>,
>>> Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>> Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
>>>>> news:zIf2L.337691$9Yp5.161517@fx12.iad:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> The 1953 /War of the Worlds/ includes the evacuation of Los
>>>>>>> Angeles. It showed the freeways, the use of buses -- and the
>>>>>>> people left behind.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you're not familiar with the LA Basin, there are basically
>>>>>> five major routes out of the basin - US101 and I5 heading north,
>>>>>> I15 and I10 heading east and I5 south to San Diego.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I5N and I15 both cross mountain ranges.
>>>>>>
>>>>> And all five are bumper to bumper at less than 30 mph (often less
>>>>> than 10) during a normal rush hour.
>>>>
>>>> And don't even try I15 on a friday afternoon...
>>>
>>> (Hal Heydt)
>>> Plus...I5, I10 and I15 didn't exist when the film was made.
>>
>> The county had a population of 4.1 million in 1950 (which was
>> 40% of the entire state), and 10 million in 2020.
>
>Just another freaking ant hill like Houston.

I don't think one can compare Houston to Los Angeles, on any
metric that matters. At least LA cleaned up its air.

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
news:ticko1$28hp9$2@dont-email.me:

> On 10/14/2022 3:43 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>>> In article <Wmg2L.87129$1Ly7.38991@fx34.iad>,
>>> Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>> Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com>
>>>> writes:
>>>>> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
>>>>> news:zIf2L.337691$9Yp5.161517@fx12.iad:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> The 1953 /War of the Worlds/ includes the evacuation of
>>>>>>> Los Angeles. It showed the freeways, the use of buses --
>>>>>>> and the people left behind.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you're not familiar with the LA Basin, there are
>>>>>> basically five major routes out of the basin - US101 and I5
>>>>>> heading north, I15 and I10 heading east and I5 south to San
>>>>>> Diego.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I5N and I15 both cross mountain ranges.
>>>>>>
>>>>> And all five are bumper to bumper at less than 30 mph (often
>>>>> less than 10) during a normal rush hour.
>>>>
>>>> And don't even try I15 on a friday afternoon...
>>>
>>> (Hal Heydt)
>>> Plus...I5, I10 and I15 didn't exist when the film was made.
>>
>> The county had a population of 4.1 million in 1950 (which was
>> 40% of the entire state), and 10 million in 2020.
>
> Just another freaking ant hill like Houston.
>
Los Angeles is the 2nd most populous city in the US, after New York
City. Currently around 4 million, vs NYC's about 9 million. The
metro area, however, is about 13 million (vs NYC's 20 million).

NYC, however, doesn't have nearly as many people who drive *every*
*day*, with a mean commute time of about half an hour.

--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

In article <ticko1$28hp9$2@dont-email.me>,
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 10/14/2022 3:43 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>>> In article <Wmg2L.87129$1Ly7.38991@fx34.iad>,
>>> Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>> Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
>>>>> news:zIf2L.337691$9Yp5.161517@fx12.iad:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> The 1953 /War of the Worlds/ includes the evacuation of Los
>>>>>>> Angeles. It showed the freeways, the use of buses -- and the
>>>>>>> people left behind.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you're not familiar with the LA Basin, there are basically
>>>>>> five major routes out of the basin - US101 and I5 heading north,
>>>>>> I15 and I10 heading east and I5 south to San Diego.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I5N and I15 both cross mountain ranges.
>>>>>>
>>>>> And all five are bumper to bumper at less than 30 mph (often less
>>>>> than 10) during a normal rush hour.
>>>>
>>>> And don't even try I15 on a friday afternoon...
>>>
>>> (Hal Heydt)
>>> Plus...I5, I10 and I15 didn't exist when the film was made.
>>
>> The county had a population of 4.1 million in 1950 (which was
>> 40% of the entire state), and 10 million in 2020.
>
>Just another freaking ant hill like Houston.

(Hal Heydt)
Los Angeles used to be described as "Fifty suburbs in search of a
city."

Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> writes:
>Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
>news:ticko1$28hp9$2@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 10/14/2022 3:43 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>> djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>>>> In article <Wmg2L.87129$1Ly7.38991@fx34.iad>,
>>>> Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>>> Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com>
>>>>> writes:
>>>>>> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
>>>>>> news:zIf2L.337691$9Yp5.161517@fx12.iad:
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The 1953 /War of the Worlds/ includes the evacuation of
>>>>>>>> Los Angeles. It showed the freeways, the use of buses --
>>>>>>>> and the people left behind.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you're not familiar with the LA Basin, there are
>>>>>>> basically five major routes out of the basin - US101 and I5
>>>>>>> heading north, I15 and I10 heading east and I5 south to San
>>>>>>> Diego.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I5N and I15 both cross mountain ranges.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> And all five are bumper to bumper at less than 30 mph (often
>>>>>> less than 10) during a normal rush hour.
>>>>>
>>>>> And don't even try I15 on a friday afternoon...
>>>>
>>>> (Hal Heydt)
>>>> Plus...I5, I10 and I15 didn't exist when the film was made.
>>>
>>> The county had a population of 4.1 million in 1950 (which was
>>> 40% of the entire state), and 10 million in 2020.
>>
>> Just another freaking ant hill like Houston.
>>
>Los Angeles is the 2nd most populous city in the US, after New York
>City. Currently around 4 million, vs NYC's about 9 million. The
>metro area, however, is about 13 million (vs NYC's 20 million).
>
>NYC, however, doesn't have nearly as many people who drive *every*
>*day*, with a mean commute time of about half an hour.

Houston traffic, on the other hand, can be as bad as, or even
worse than the downlown LA stretch of 110-10-101-5 interchanges.

On 10/14/2022 5:26 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <ticko1$28hp9$2@dont-email.me>,
> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 10/14/2022 3:43 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>> djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>>>> In article <Wmg2L.87129$1Ly7.38991@fx34.iad>,
>>>> Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>>> Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
>>>>>> news:zIf2L.337691$9Yp5.161517@fx12.iad:
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The 1953 /War of the Worlds/ includes the evacuation of Los
>>>>>>>> Angeles. It showed the freeways, the use of buses -- and the
>>>>>>>> people left behind.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you're not familiar with the LA Basin, there are basically
>>>>>>> five major routes out of the basin - US101 and I5 heading north,
>>>>>>> I15 and I10 heading east and I5 south to San Diego.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I5N and I15 both cross mountain ranges.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> And all five are bumper to bumper at less than 30 mph (often less
>>>>>> than 10) during a normal rush hour.
>>>>>
>>>>> And don't even try I15 on a friday afternoon...
>>>>
>>>> (Hal Heydt)
>>>> Plus...I5, I10 and I15 didn't exist when the film was made.
>>>
>>> The county had a population of 4.1 million in 1950 (which was
>>> 40% of the entire state), and 10 million in 2020.
>>
>> Just another freaking ant hill like Houston.
>
> (Hal Heydt)
> Los Angeles used to be described as "Fifty suburbs in search of a
> city."

I would not be surprised if Houston is double that.

Lynn

On 10/14/2022 4:43 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>> On 10/14/2022 3:43 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>> djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>>>> In article <Wmg2L.87129$1Ly7.38991@fx34.iad>,
>>>> Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>>> Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
>>>>>> news:zIf2L.337691$9Yp5.161517@fx12.iad:
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The 1953 /War of the Worlds/ includes the evacuation of Los
>>>>>>>> Angeles. It showed the freeways, the use of buses -- and the
>>>>>>>> people left behind.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you're not familiar with the LA Basin, there are basically
>>>>>>> five major routes out of the basin - US101 and I5 heading north,
>>>>>>> I15 and I10 heading east and I5 south to San Diego.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I5N and I15 both cross mountain ranges.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> And all five are bumper to bumper at less than 30 mph (often less
>>>>>> than 10) during a normal rush hour.
>>>>>
>>>>> And don't even try I15 on a friday afternoon...
>>>>
>>>> (Hal Heydt)
>>>> Plus...I5, I10 and I15 didn't exist when the film was made.
>>>
>>> The county had a population of 4.1 million in 1950 (which was
>>> 40% of the entire state), and 10 million in 2020.
>>
>> Just another freaking ant hill like Houston.
>
> I don't think one can compare Houston to Los Angeles, on any
> metric that matters. At least LA cleaned up its air.

You ain't ever been here have you ? I've been to LA several times. The
pollution is always worse than Houston. Of course, I live outside the
third outer ring which is about 60 miles across.

Lynn

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>On 10/14/2022 4:43 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>>> On 10/14/2022 3:43 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>> djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>>>>> In article <Wmg2L.87129$1Ly7.38991@fx34.iad>,
>>>>> Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
>>>>>>> news:zIf2L.337691$9Yp5.161517@fx12.iad:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The 1953 /War of the Worlds/ includes the evacuation of Los
>>>>>>>>> Angeles. It showed the freeways, the use of buses -- and the
>>>>>>>>> people left behind.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you're not familiar with the LA Basin, there are basically
>>>>>>>> five major routes out of the basin - US101 and I5 heading north,
>>>>>>>> I15 and I10 heading east and I5 south to San Diego.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I5N and I15 both cross mountain ranges.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And all five are bumper to bumper at less than 30 mph (often less
>>>>>>> than 10) during a normal rush hour.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And don't even try I15 on a friday afternoon...
>>>>>
>>>>> (Hal Heydt)
>>>>> Plus...I5, I10 and I15 didn't exist when the film was made.
>>>>
>>>> The county had a population of 4.1 million in 1950 (which was
>>>> 40% of the entire state), and 10 million in 2020.
>>>
>>> Just another freaking ant hill like Houston.
>>
>> I don't think one can compare Houston to Los Angeles, on any
>> metric that matters. At least LA cleaned up its air.
>
>You ain't ever been here have you ? I've been to LA several times. The
>pollution is always worse than Houston. Of course, I live outside the
>third outer ring which is about 60 miles across.

I lived in the LA Basin in the 80s when it was quite polluted[*]. It
is far, far better now (although word is that it is starting to
get worse again). If you watch 70's TV shows, like the Rockford
Files or Emergency or CHIPS you can see how bad it was; nary a
blue sky in sight.

Houston, when I visited several times in the 2000s[**], was as
bad as LA in the 80s - made worse by the oppressive humidity.

[*] One couldn't see Mt Wilson from downtown Pasadena, and
one would need to stop halfway from home to first in a softball game to catch
one's breath. Today, one can routinely see Catalina Island from La Canada.

[**] Visiting Veritas DGC, a company in your line of business.

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 1:48:46 PM UTC-6, James Nicoll wrote:
> I haven't seen much commentary on the Ukrainian war from the
> "Russian victory is inevitable" side here recently. You guys
> feeling OK?

Incidentally, I recently saw a video of Putin giving a public announcement which
seems to solve the mystery of the letter Z.

Above Putin's head is a banner proclaiming:

To (peace/a world) without Nazism!
To victory!

with the first letter in the Russian word for "To" (Za) replaced by its Latin counterpart.

John Savard

On Fri, 14 Oct 2022 13:09:29 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
wrote:

>On Wed, 12 Oct 2022 19:15:04 -0500, Lynn McGuire
><lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On 10/12/2022 6:44 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 2:47:29 PM UTC-6, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Winning" in Ukraine will be shortly followed by all dying in nuclear fire.
>>>
>>> Only if Russia wants that to happen to it.
>>>
>>> John Savard
>>
>>True that.
>
>Obviously what Putin most wants is an immediate surrender and a
>victory parade in Kiev.
>
>What he wants and what he's likely to get are two quite different
>things.
>
>What >I'm< worried about is that the outcome of this war is going to
>turn Russia into a Chinese satellite that dances at Mr Xi's command.

If it keeps China focused on perfecting their control for, say, the
next 50-100 years, that might not be a bad thing.

Depending on what the rest of the world is doing, of course.
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

On Saturday, October 15, 2022 at 11:04:31 AM UTC-4, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 1:48:46 PM UTC-6, James Nicoll wrote:
> > I haven't seen much commentary on the Ukrainian war from the
> > "Russian victory is inevitable" side here recently. You guys
> > feeling OK?
>
> Incidentally, I recently saw a video of Putin giving a public announcement which
> seems to solve the mystery of the letter Z.
>
> Above Putin's head is a banner proclaiming:
>
> To (peace/a world) without Nazism!
> To victory!
>
> with the first letter in the Russian word for "To" (Za) replaced by its Latin counterpart.

Quaddie, there a site called Wikipedia, where you can look stuff up instead of making half assed guesses.

They're marks to prevent friendly fire. The first explanation I heard was that they
identified different units:

Wikipedia
"Another interpretation for "Z" is the Russian word for west (Russian: запад, romanized: zapad),
to designate the Western Military District or west-bound infantry, with the "V" symbol similarly
standing for the word for east (Russian: восток, romanized: vostok).[38][39][40] This term was
used in the joint Zapad 2021 exercise between Belarus and Russia before the invasion."

Later, the Russian MoD came up with elaborate backronyms.
https://www..wikipedia.org/wiki/Z_(military_symbol)

Pt

scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
news:Snm2L.272989$elEa.144736@fx09.iad:

> Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> writes:
>>Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
>>news:ticko1$28hp9$2@dont-email.me:
>>
>>> On 10/14/2022 3:43 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>> djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>>>>> In article <Wmg2L.87129$1Ly7.38991@fx34.iad>,
>>>>> Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com>
>>>>>> writes:
>>>>>>> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
>>>>>>> news:zIf2L.337691$9Yp5.161517@fx12.iad:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The 1953 /War of the Worlds/ includes the evacuation of
>>>>>>>>> Los Angeles. It showed the freeways, the use of buses --
>>>>>>>>> and the people left behind.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you're not familiar with the LA Basin, there are
>>>>>>>> basically five major routes out of the basin - US101 and
>>>>>>>> I5 heading north, I15 and I10 heading east and I5 south
>>>>>>>> to San Diego.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I5N and I15 both cross mountain ranges.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And all five are bumper to bumper at less than 30 mph
>>>>>>> (often less than 10) during a normal rush hour.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And don't even try I15 on a friday afternoon...
>>>>>
>>>>> (Hal Heydt)
>>>>> Plus...I5, I10 and I15 didn't exist when the film was made.
>>>>
>>>> The county had a population of 4.1 million in 1950 (which was
>>>> 40% of the entire state), and 10 million in 2020.
>>>
>>> Just another freaking ant hill like Houston.
>>>
>>Los Angeles is the 2nd most populous city in the US, after New
>>York City. Currently around 4 million, vs NYC's about 9 million.
>>The metro area, however, is about 13 million (vs NYC's 20
>>million).
>>
>>NYC, however, doesn't have nearly as many people who drive
>>*every* *day*, with a mean commute time of about half an hour.
>
> Houston traffic, on the other hand, can be as bad as, or even
> worse than the downlown LA stretch of 110-10-101-5 interchanges.
>
All the time? Every day? I'm referring to routine rush hour
traffic, not when there's an accident or construction.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
news:tid5tu$2fksl$2@dont-email.me:

> On 10/14/2022 4:43 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>>> On 10/14/2022 3:43 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>> djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>>>>> In article <Wmg2L.87129$1Ly7.38991@fx34.iad>,
>>>>> Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com>
>>>>>> writes:
>>>>>>> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
>>>>>>> news:zIf2L.337691$9Yp5.161517@fx12.iad:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The 1953 /War of the Worlds/ includes the evacuation of
>>>>>>>>> Los Angeles. It showed the freeways, the use of buses --
>>>>>>>>> and the people left behind.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you're not familiar with the LA Basin, there are
>>>>>>>> basically five major routes out of the basin - US101 and
>>>>>>>> I5 heading north, I15 and I10 heading east and I5 south
>>>>>>>> to San Diego.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I5N and I15 both cross mountain ranges.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And all five are bumper to bumper at less than 30 mph
>>>>>>> (often less than 10) during a normal rush hour.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And don't even try I15 on a friday afternoon...
>>>>>
>>>>> (Hal Heydt)
>>>>> Plus...I5, I10 and I15 didn't exist when the film was made.
>>>>
>>>> The county had a population of 4.1 million in 1950 (which was
>>>> 40% of the entire state), and 10 million in 2020.
>>>
>>> Just another freaking ant hill like Houston.
>>
>> I don't think one can compare Houston to Los Angeles, on any
>> metric that matters. At least LA cleaned up its air.
>
> You ain't ever been here have you ? I've been to LA several
> times. The pollution is always worse than Houston. Of course,
> I live outside the third outer ring which is about 60 miles
> across.
>
LA's air is about as clean as it's been since they started keeping
records. The price of that is gasoline that's $2/gallon more than
anywhere else in the US (except Hawaii, where it's brought in by
ship), and cars that cost thousands more, and the 2nd more business
unfriendly business environment in the US (and it rivals New York).

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.