On 18 Sep 2022, James Nicoll wrote
(in article <tg7ajp$pas$1@reader2.panix.com>):

> In article<LYFVK.131647$IRd5.7102@fx10.iad>,
> Chrysi Cat <Chrysicat@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 9/16/2022 5:37 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> > > On 9/16/2022 5:17 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> > > > Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
> > > > > On 9/10/2022 2:48 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
> > > > > > I haven't seen much commentary on the Ukrainian war from the
> > > > > > "Russian victory is inevitable" side here recently. You guys
> > > > > > feeling OK?
> > > > >
> > > > > “Putin’s Narrowing Options" by Patrick J. Buchanan
> > > > > https://buchanan.org/blog/putins-narrowing-options-159644
> > > >
> > > > Pat Buchanan isn't a noted military analyst. I would take his
> > > > opinions with a grain ... never mind, I'd never take his opinion
> > > > on anything, period.
> > >
> > > Nukes are like hand grenades, you don't have to be precise.
> > I'll take
> > > Pat's opinion any day. At the end of the day, it is an
> > opinion like any
> > > one elses. And it is a fact that Putin is sitting in isolation with
> > > 24,000 ??? nukes under his control.
> > >
> > > "A desperate Vladimir Putin is a dangerous Vladimir Putin, and
> > there are
> > > signs Putin’s situation in Ukraine may be becoming desperate."
> > >
> > > "The longer this war goes on, and the sooner the Russian bleeding
> > > becomes intolerable to Putin, the more likely it is that he will
> > > escalate, rather than capitulate and accept defeat and humiliation for
> > > his country and himself, leading to his removal from power."
> > >
> > > "Again, a desperate Putin is a dangerous Putin."
> > >
> > > Lynn
> >
> > So because of that, we should have--what, turned our weapons on "the"
> > Ukraine ourselves and made it clear that because Putin's demand is that
> > the Ukraine either be a Russian ally or a Russian oblast, that it indeed
> > needs to suck it up for the rest of the world?
> As a compromise, could the US not simply cede its republicans to
> Russia?

That would be an act of war.

On 18 Sep 2022, Lynn McGuire wrote
(in article <tg7rii$if3$1@gioia.aioe.org>):

> On 9/18/2022 9:39 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
> > In article<LYFVK.131647$IRd5.7102@fx10.iad>,
> > Chrysi Cat <Chrysicat@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On 9/16/2022 5:37 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> > > > On 9/16/2022 5:17 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> > > > > Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
> > > > > > On 9/10/2022 2:48 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
> > > > > > > I haven't seen much commentary on the Ukrainian war from the
> > > > > > > "Russian victory is inevitable" side here recently. You guys
> > > > > > > feeling OK?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > “Putin’s Narrowing Options" by Patrick J. Buchanan
> > > > > > https://buchanan.org/blog/putins-narrowing-options-159644
> > > > >
> > > > > Pat Buchanan isn't a noted military analyst. I would take his
> > > > > opinions with a grain ... never mind, I'd never take his opinion
> > > > > on anything, period.
> > > >
> > > > Nukes are like hand grenades, you don't have to be precise.
> > > I'll take
> > > > Pat's opinion any day. At the end of the day, it is an
> > > opinion like any
> > > > one elses. And it is a fact that Putin is sitting in isolation with
> > > > 24,000 ??? nukes under his control.
> > > >
> > > > "A desperate Vladimir Putin is a dangerous Vladimir Putin, and
> > > there are
> > > > signs Putin’s situation in Ukraine may be becoming desperate."
> > > >
> > > > "The longer this war goes on, and the sooner the Russian bleeding
> > > > becomes intolerable to Putin, the more likely it is that he will
> > > > escalate, rather than capitulate and accept defeat and humiliation for
> > > > his country and himself, leading to his removal from power."
> > > >
> > > > "Again, a desperate Putin is a dangerous Putin."
> > > >
> > > > Lynn
> > >
> > > So because of that, we should have--what, turned our weapons on "the"
> > > Ukraine ourselves and made it clear that because Putin's demand is that
> > > the Ukraine either be a Russian ally or a Russian oblast, that it indeed
> > > needs to suck it up for the rest of the world?
> > As a compromise, could the US not simply cede its republicans to
> > Russia?
>
> How about we, the USA, cede Canada to Russia !

The Canuks would object, and would unleash the full force of the mighty
Arctic Penguin Force by laying a trail of herring all the way to Vlad the
Invader’s office. And would then tell Liuttle Kim and Pooh Bear Xi to
behave themselves, lest they get the same treatment.
>
>
> Lynn

jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote in
news:tg7ajp$pas$1@reader2.panix.com:

> In article <LYFVK.131647$IRd5.7102@fx10.iad>,
> Chrysi Cat <Chrysicat@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On 9/16/2022 5:37 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>> On 9/16/2022 5:17 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>> On 9/10/2022 2:48 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
>>>>>> I haven't seen much commentary on the Ukrainian war from
>>>>>> the "Russian victory is inevitable" side here recently. You
>>>>>> guys feeling OK?
>>>>>
>>>>> “Putin’s Narrowing Options" by Patrick J. Buchanan
>>>>>    
>>>>> https://buchanan.org/blog/putins-narrowing-options-159644
>>>>
>>>> Pat Buchanan isn't a noted military analyst. I would take his
>>>> opinions with a grain ... never mind, I'd never take his
>>>> opinion on anything, period.
>>>
>>> Nukes are like hand grenades, you don't have to be precise. 
>>I'll take
>>> Pat's opinion any day.  At the end of the day, it is an
>>opinion like any
>>> one elses.  And it is a fact that Putin is sitting in
>>> isolation with 24,000 ??? nukes under his control.
>>>
>>> "A desperate Vladimir Putin is a dangerous Vladimir Putin, and
>>there are
>>> signs Putin’s situation in Ukraine may be becoming
>>> desperate."
>>>
>>> "The longer this war goes on, and the sooner the Russian
>>> bleeding becomes intolerable to Putin, the more likely it is
>>> that he will escalate, rather than capitulate and accept
>>> defeat and humiliation for his country and himself, leading to
>>> his removal from power."
>>>
>>> "Again, a desperate Putin is a dangerous Putin."
>>>
>>> Lynn
>>>
>>>
>>
>>So because of that, we should have--what, turned our weapons on
>>"the" Ukraine ourselves and made it clear that because Putin's
>>demand is that the Ukraine either be a Russian ally or a Russian
>>oblast, that it indeed needs to suck it up for the rest of the
>>world?
>>
> As a compromise, could the US not simply cede its republicans to
> Russia?

It would be far more just to cede the 51st state, which is to say
Canda, to them.

--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Wolffan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote in
news:0001HW.28D7B36301289A2D70000178C38F@news.supernews.com:

> On 18 Sep 2022, James Nicoll wrote
> (in article <tg7ajp$pas$1@reader2.panix.com>):
>
>> In article<LYFVK.131647$IRd5.7102@fx10.iad>,
>> Chrysi Cat <Chrysicat@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On 9/16/2022 5:37 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> > > On 9/16/2022 5:17 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> > > > Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>> > > > > On 9/10/2022 2:48 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
>> > > > > > I haven't seen much commentary on the Ukrainian war
>> > > > > > from the "Russian victory is inevitable" side here
>> > > > > > recently. You guys feeling OK?
>> > > > >
>> > > > > “Putin’s Narrowing Options" by Patrick J. Buchanan
>> > > > > https://buchanan.org/blog/putins-narrowing-options-15964
>> > > > > 4
>> > > >
>> > > > Pat Buchanan isn't a noted military analyst. I would take
>> > > > his opinions with a grain ... never mind, I'd never take
>> > > > his opinion on anything, period.
>> > >
>> > > Nukes are like hand grenades, you don't have to be precise.
>> > I'll take
>> > > Pat's opinion any day. At the end of the day, it is an
>> > opinion like any
>> > > one elses. And it is a fact that Putin is sitting in
>> > > isolation with 24,000 ??? nukes under his control.
>> > >
>> > > "A desperate Vladimir Putin is a dangerous Vladimir Putin,
>> > > and
>> > there are
>> > > signs Putin’s situation in Ukraine may be becoming
>> > > desperate."
>> > >
>> > > "The longer this war goes on, and the sooner the Russian
>> > > bleeding becomes intolerable to Putin, the more likely it
>> > > is that he will escalate, rather than capitulate and accept
>> > > defeat and humiliation for his country and himself, leading
>> > > to his removal from power."
>> > >
>> > > "Again, a desperate Putin is a dangerous Putin."
>> > >
>> > > Lynn
>> >
>> > So because of that, we should have--what, turned our weapons
>> > on "the" Ukraine ourselves and made it clear that because
>> > Putin's demand is that the Ukraine either be a Russian ally
>> > or a Russian oblast, that it indeed needs to suck it up for
>> > the rest of the world?
>> As a compromise, could the US not simply cede its republicans
>> to Russia?
>
> That would be an act of war.
>
On the part of whom? And against whom? The choices are many.

--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 4:05:56 PM UTC-4, Kevrob wrote:
> On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 12:22:16 PM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> > William Hyde <wthyd...@gmail.com> writes:
> > >On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 3:48:46 PM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:
> > >> I haven't seen much commentary on the Ukrainian war from the=20
> > >> "Russian victory is inevitable" side here recently. You guys=20
> > >> feeling OK?=20
> > >
> > >My first thought was that the Russian invasion was not nearly large enough.=
> > > I was thinking in terms of WWII numbers, where nobody would think of atta=
> > >cking a country the size of Ukraine with less than double that. My second =
> > >thought was that Ukraine had more veterans than Russia, courtesy of Russia =
> > >itself in the Donbas.
> >
> > My first thought was the Russian Military had not been paying attention to
> > military developments in the years since the end of WWII. While the
> > US has fought four major conflicts directly (Korea, Vietnam, Gulf I and Gulf II)
> > in those years and have developed the military doctrine (and logistics) to support them,
> > the Russians have not fought a major campaign against a quality opponent
> > since 1945. They don't have the logistics chains, the ex-soviet equipment
> > is poorly maintained and almost useless on the modern battlefield and their
> > lack of non-commissioned officers is crippling (hence the early loss of
> > a half dozen or more Generals).
> >
>
> I took courses on Russian history and politics on my way to my B.A., back
> when the Cold War was still on. That's when becoming an expert on the
> Soviet Union seemed like a plausible career track for a young politics/
> history student.
>
> I remembered that Ukrainians were promoted to Red Army non-com ranks
> out-of-proportion to their numbers in the USSR. I found an old RAND study
> that supports this view.
>
> [quote]
>
> According to all of our respondents, Ukrainians constitute a majority, perhaps
> a clear majority, among the Soviet sergeants. In this they appear to
> be grossly overrepresented, not only in proportion to their share of
> the total Soviet population but also with respect to the Ukrainian
> share of the Slavic population. Our interviewees advanced several
> explanations for this phenomenon. First, a considerable number of
> respondents attributed Ukrainian predominance among the non-coms to
> an alleged national affinity for the military service and careerism.
> Again, the attitudes of the respondents, of whom only one was a Ukrain-
> ian, revealed some deep-rooted, if surprising to us, national prejudices.

I've never had a high opinion of Rand. But I see it can still drop.

One factor might be that the Soviets preferred to have Russians in the officer class, rather than "ethnics". Though they denied any such policy, it is apparent that they had one. Someone commented that though Stalin was himself of a minority, he gave preference to Russians even more than his successors. He did have Mikoyan and Kaganovitch in his politburo, but Mikoyan was the ultimate survivor and Stalin was preparing to have Kagonovitch shipped off when he died. He did live long enough to have K's brother shot, and put Molotov's wife in prison (she was Jewish).

Sad luck for them in the competitive world of chess, where the minorities did better than "pure" Russians, of which only Karpov and Smyslov reached the top (and Smyslov, I believe, was suspiciously religious). Otherwise their best players were Lativan, Armenian, Jewish (or half so), Estonian or Ukrainian.

William Hyde

On Sunday, 18 September 2022 at 21:05:56 UTC+1, Kevrob wrote:
> On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 12:22:16 PM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> > William Hyde <wthyd...@gmail.com> writes:
> > >On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 3:48:46 PM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:
> > >> I haven't seen much commentary on the Ukrainian war from the=20
> > >> "Russian victory is inevitable" side here recently. You guys=20
> > >> feeling OK?=20
> > >
> > >My first thought was that the Russian invasion was not nearly large enough.=
> > > I was thinking in terms of WWII numbers, where nobody would think of atta=
> > >cking a country the size of Ukraine with less than double that. My second =
> > >thought was that Ukraine had more veterans than Russia, courtesy of Russia =
> > >itself in the Donbas.
> >
> > My first thought was the Russian Military had not been paying attention to
> > military developments in the years since the end of WWII. While the
> > US has fought four major conflicts directly (Korea, Vietnam, Gulf I and Gulf II)
> > in those years and have developed the military doctrine (and logistics) to support them,
> > the Russians have not fought a major campaign against a quality opponent
> > since 1945. They don't have the logistics chains, the ex-soviet equipment
> > is poorly maintained and almost useless on the modern battlefield and their
> > lack of non-commissioned officers is crippling (hence the early loss of
> > a half dozen or more Generals).
> >
>
> I took courses on Russian history and politics on my way to my B.A., back
> when the Cold War was still on. That's when becoming an expert on the
> Soviet Union seemed like a plausible career track for a young politics/
> history student.
>
> I remembered that Ukrainians were promoted to Red Army non-com ranks
> out-of-proportion to their numbers in the USSR. I found an old RAND study
> that supports this view.
>
> [quote]
>
> According to all of our respondents, Ukrainians constitute a majority, perhaps
> a clear majority, among the Soviet sergeants. In this they appear to
> be grossly overrepresented, not only in proportion to their share of
> the total Soviet population but also with respect to the Ukrainian
> share of the Slavic population. Our interviewees advanced several
> explanations for this phenomenon. First, a considerable number of
> respondents attributed Ukrainian predominance among the non-coms to
> an alleged national affinity for the military service and careerism.
> Again, the attitudes of the respondents, of whom only one was a Ukrain-
> ian, revealed some deep-rooted, if surprising to us, national prejudices.
> These are some examples
>
> ....
>
> The Ukrainians, more than anybody else, strove
> for promotion. For most of the people in the
> army the greatest prize is to be able to get
> a leave. Not so for the Ukrainians. They would
> do everything to get promoted first because
> power over other soldiers seems to be very im-
> portant for them.
>
> ....
>
> About 75 percent of the non-commissioned officers
> in the army are of Ukrainian origin. They all
> reenlist when their normal term expires. They were
> despicable people much hated and feared by the
> soldiers
>
> ...
>
>
> [/quote] - A RAND NOTE
> THE ETHNIC FACTOR IN THE SOVIET ARMED FORCES:
> PRELIMINARY FINDINGS
> S. Enders Wimbush and Alex Alexiev
> May 1980
>
> https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA118421.pdf
>
> Ukraine being a separate, sovereign state must have caused a drop in the
> competence of Russia's non-coms.

I think you're talking Cossacks...?

On 18 Sep 2022, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote
(in article<XnsAF16A39424BC5taustingmail@85.12.62.232>):

> Wolffan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote in
> news:0001HW.28D7B36301289A2D70000178C38F@news.supernews.com:
>
> > On 18 Sep 2022, James Nicoll wrote
> > (in article <tg7ajp$pas$1@reader2.panix.com>):
> >
> > > In article<LYFVK.131647$IRd5.7102@fx10.iad>,
> > > Chrysi Cat <Chrysicat@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On 9/16/2022 5:37 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> > > > > On 9/16/2022 5:17 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> > > > > > Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
> > > > > > > On 9/10/2022 2:48 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
> > > > > > > > I haven't seen much commentary on the Ukrainian war
> > > > > > > > from the "Russian victory is inevitable" side here
> > > > > > > > recently. You guys feeling OK?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > “Putin’s Narrowing Options" by Patrick J. Buchanan
> > > > > > > https://buchanan.org/blog/putins-narrowing-options-15964
> > > > > > > 4
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Pat Buchanan isn't a noted military analyst. I would take
> > > > > > his opinions with a grain ... never mind, I'd never take
> > > > > > his opinion on anything, period.
> > > > >
> > > > > Nukes are like hand grenades, you don't have to be precise.
> > > > I'll take
> > > > > Pat's opinion any day. At the end of the day, it is an
> > > > opinion like any
> > > > > one elses. And it is a fact that Putin is sitting in
> > > > > isolation with 24,000 ??? nukes under his control.
> > > > >
> > > > > "A desperate Vladimir Putin is a dangerous Vladimir Putin,
> > > > > and
> > > > there are
> > > > > signs Putin’s situation in Ukraine may be becoming
> > > > > desperate."
> > > > >
> > > > > "The longer this war goes on, and the sooner the Russian
> > > > > bleeding becomes intolerable to Putin, the more likely it
> > > > > is that he will escalate, rather than capitulate and accept
> > > > > defeat and humiliation for his country and himself, leading
> > > > > to his removal from power."
> > > > >
> > > > > "Again, a desperate Putin is a dangerous Putin."
> > > > >
> > > > > Lynn
> > > >
> > > > So because of that, we should have--what, turned our weapons
> > > > on "the" Ukraine ourselves and made it clear that because
> > > > Putin's demand is that the Ukraine either be a Russian ally
> > > > or a Russian oblast, that it indeed needs to suck it up for
> > > > the rest of the world?
> > > As a compromise, could the US not simply cede its republicans
> > > to Russia?
> >
> > That would be an act of war.
> On the part of whom? And against whom? The choices are many.

The Russians would be pissed that the US went and made things worse for them.
Vlad the Invader would be more pissed than other Russians, as now he’d have
even mnore grossly incompetent twits to try to herd.It’d mean war, unless
the US could be presauded to take ‘em back.

Wolffan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote in
news:0001HW.28D7EE5101366A2370000147A38F@news.supernews.com:

> On 18 Sep 2022, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote
> (in article<XnsAF16A39424BC5taustingmail@85.12.62.232>):
>
>> Wolffan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote in
>> news:0001HW.28D7B36301289A2D70000178C38F@news.supernews.com:
>>
>> > On 18 Sep 2022, James Nicoll wrote
>> > (in article <tg7ajp$pas$1@reader2.panix.com>):
>> >
>> > > In article<LYFVK.131647$IRd5.7102@fx10.iad>,
>> > > Chrysi Cat <Chrysicat@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > On 9/16/2022 5:37 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> > > > > On 9/16/2022 5:17 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> > > > > > Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>> > > > > > > On 9/10/2022 2:48 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
>> > > > > > > > I haven't seen much commentary on the Ukrainian
>> > > > > > > > war from the "Russian victory is inevitable" side
>> > > > > > > > here recently. You guys feeling OK?
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > “Putin’s Narrowing Options" by Patrick J.
>> > > > > > > Buchanan
>> > > > > > > https://buchanan.org/blog/putins-narrowing-options-1
>> > > > > > > 5964 4
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Pat Buchanan isn't a noted military analyst. I would
>> > > > > > take his opinions with a grain ... never mind, I'd
>> > > > > > never take his opinion on anything, period.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Nukes are like hand grenades, you don't have to be
>> > > > > precise.
>> > > > I'll take
>> > > > > Pat's opinion any day. At the end of the day, it is an
>> > > > opinion like any
>> > > > > one elses. And it is a fact that Putin is sitting in
>> > > > > isolation with 24,000 ??? nukes under his control.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > "A desperate Vladimir Putin is a dangerous Vladimir
>> > > > > Putin, and
>> > > > there are
>> > > > > signs Putin’s situation in Ukraine may be becoming
>> > > > > desperate."
>> > > > >
>> > > > > "The longer this war goes on, and the sooner the
>> > > > > Russian bleeding becomes intolerable to Putin, the more
>> > > > > likely it is that he will escalate, rather than
>> > > > > capitulate and accept defeat and humiliation for his
>> > > > > country and himself, leading to his removal from
>> > > > > power."
>> > > > >
>> > > > > "Again, a desperate Putin is a dangerous Putin."
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Lynn
>> > > >
>> > > > So because of that, we should have--what, turned our
>> > > > weapons on "the" Ukraine ourselves and made it clear that
>> > > > because Putin's demand is that the Ukraine either be a
>> > > > Russian ally or a Russian oblast, that it indeed needs to
>> > > > suck it up for the rest of the world?
>> > > As a compromise, could the US not simply cede its
>> > > republicans to Russia?
>> >
>> > That would be an act of war.
>> On the part of whom? And against whom? The choices are many.
>
> The Russians would be pissed that the US went and made things
> worse for them.

They already are.

> Vlad the Invader would be more pissed than other
> Russians,

Given the recent assassination attempt, and the number of his inner
circle who have fallen out of windows, I'm retty sure he already
is.

> as now he’d have even mnore grossly incompetent
> twits to try to herd.

Given how many of his highest level officers have died in combat,
he already does.

> It’d mean war, unless the US could be
> presauded to take ‘em back.
>
Given how weak and cowardly the current administration is, that's
just more business as usual.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 14:39:53 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
Nicoll) wrote:

>In article <LYFVK.131647$IRd5.7102@fx10.iad>,
>Chrysi Cat <Chrysicat@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On 9/16/2022 5:37 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>> On 9/16/2022 5:17 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>> On 9/10/2022 2:48 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
>>>>>> I haven't seen much commentary on the Ukrainian war from the
>>>>>> "Russian victory is inevitable" side here recently. You guys
>>>>>> feeling OK?
>>>>>
>>>>> “Putin’s Narrowing Options" by Patrick J. Buchanan
>>>>>     https://buchanan.org/blog/putins-narrowing-options-159644
>>>>
>>>> Pat Buchanan isn't a noted military analyst. I would take his
>>>> opinions with a grain ... never mind, I'd never take his opinion
>>>> on anything, period.
>>>
>>> Nukes are like hand grenades, you don't have to be precise. 
>>I'll take
>>> Pat's opinion any day.  At the end of the day, it is an
>>opinion like any
>>> one elses.  And it is a fact that Putin is sitting in isolation with
>>> 24,000 ??? nukes under his control.
>>>
>>> "A desperate Vladimir Putin is a dangerous Vladimir Putin, and
>>there are
>>> signs Putin’s situation in Ukraine may be becoming desperate."
>>>
>>> "The longer this war goes on, and the sooner the Russian bleeding
>>> becomes intolerable to Putin, the more likely it is that he will
>>> escalate, rather than capitulate and accept defeat and humiliation for
>>> his country and himself, leading to his removal from power."
>>>
>>> "Again, a desperate Putin is a dangerous Putin."
>>>
>>> Lynn
>>>
>>>
>>
>>So because of that, we should have--what, turned our weapons on "the"
>>Ukraine ourselves and made it clear that because Putin's demand is that
>>the Ukraine either be a Russian ally or a Russian oblast, that it indeed
>>needs to suck it up for the rest of the world?
>>
>As a compromise, could the US not simply cede its republicans to
>Russia?

All of them?

Or just the semi-fascist ultra-MAGA ones?

I mean, they are basically Fans of Putin (through Trump) anyway.
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

On 9/19/2022 8:53 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 14:39:53 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
> Nicoll) wrote:
>
>> In article <LYFVK.131647$IRd5.7102@fx10.iad>,
>> Chrysi Cat <Chrysicat@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 9/16/2022 5:37 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>> On 9/16/2022 5:17 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>> On 9/10/2022 2:48 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
>>>>>>> I haven't seen much commentary on the Ukrainian war from the
>>>>>>> "Russian victory is inevitable" side here recently. You guys
>>>>>>> feeling OK?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “Putin’s Narrowing Options" by Patrick J. Buchanan
>>>>>>     https://buchanan.org/blog/putins-narrowing-options-159644
>>>>>
>>>>> Pat Buchanan isn't a noted military analyst. I would take his
>>>>> opinions with a grain ... never mind, I'd never take his opinion
>>>>> on anything, period.
>>>>
>>>> Nukes are like hand grenades, you don't have to be precise.Â
>>> I'll take
>>>> Pat's opinion any day.  At the end of the day, it is an
>>> opinion like any
>>>> one elses.  And it is a fact that Putin is sitting in isolation with
>>>> 24,000 ??? nukes under his control.
>>>>
>>>> "A desperate Vladimir Putin is a dangerous Vladimir Putin, and
>>> there are
>>>> signs Putin’s situation in Ukraine may be becoming desperate."
>>>>
>>>> "The longer this war goes on, and the sooner the Russian bleeding
>>>> becomes intolerable to Putin, the more likely it is that he will
>>>> escalate, rather than capitulate and accept defeat and humiliation for
>>>> his country and himself, leading to his removal from power."
>>>>
>>>> "Again, a desperate Putin is a dangerous Putin."
>>>>
>>>> Lynn
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> So because of that, we should have--what, turned our weapons on "the"
>>> Ukraine ourselves and made it clear that because Putin's demand is that
>>> the Ukraine either be a Russian ally or a Russian oblast, that it indeed
>>> needs to suck it up for the rest of the world?
>>>
>> As a compromise, could the US not simply cede its republicans to
>> Russia?
>
> All of them?
>
> Or just the semi-fascist ultra-MAGA ones?
>
> I mean, they are basically Fans of Putin (through Trump) anyway.

I'll concede there are some Republicans not trying to destroy our form
of government there are also a LOT of non-MAGA Republicans who are.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

In article <r14hihd2c2vrlngfitmpi8mr0e7fqj8avv@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 14:39:53 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
>Nicoll) wrote:
>
>>In article <LYFVK.131647$IRd5.7102@fx10.iad>,
>>Chrysi Cat <Chrysicat@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>On 9/16/2022 5:37 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>> On 9/16/2022 5:17 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>> On 9/10/2022 2:48 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
>>>>>>> I haven't seen much commentary on the Ukrainian war from the
>>>>>>> "Russian victory is inevitable" side here recently. You guys
>>>>>>> feeling OK?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “Putin’s Narrowing Options" by Patrick J. Buchanan
>>>>>>     https://buchanan.org/blog/putins-narrowing-options-159644
>>>>>
>>>>> Pat Buchanan isn't a noted military analyst. I would take his
>>>>> opinions with a grain ... never mind, I'd never take his opinion
>>>>> on anything, period.
>>>>
>>>> Nukes are like hand grenades, you don't have to be precise. 
>>>I'll take
>>>> Pat's opinion any day.  At the end of the day, it is an
>>>opinion like any
>>>> one elses.  And it is a fact that Putin is sitting in
>isolation with
>>>> 24,000 ??? nukes under his control.
>>>>
>>>> "A desperate Vladimir Putin is a dangerous Vladimir Putin, and
>>>there are
>>>> signs Putin’s situation in Ukraine may be becoming desperate."
>>>>
>>>> "The longer this war goes on, and the sooner the Russian bleeding
>>>> becomes intolerable to Putin, the more likely it is that he will
>>>> escalate, rather than capitulate and accept defeat and
>humiliation for
>>>> his country and himself, leading to his removal from power."
>>>>
>>>> "Again, a desperate Putin is a dangerous Putin."
>>>>
>>>> Lynn
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>So because of that, we should have--what, turned our weapons on "the"
>>>Ukraine ourselves and made it clear that because Putin's demand
>is that
>>>the Ukraine either be a Russian ally or a Russian oblast, that
>it indeed
>>>needs to suck it up for the rest of the world?
>>>
>>As a compromise, could the US not simply cede its republicans to
>>Russia?
>
>All of them?
>
>Or just the semi-fascist ultra-MAGA ones?
>
>I mean, they are basically Fans of Putin (through Trump) anyway.

I think you're being monstrously unjust to the MAGAts. In what
sense are they _semi_ fascists?

Also, in the same sense that ten people and one nazi sharing
dinner are eleven nazis, there's no such thing as a non-MAGAt
Republican.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

On Monday, September 19, 2022 at 5:06:01 PM UTC+1, James Nicoll wrote:
> In article <r14hihd2c2vrlngfi...@4ax.com>,
> Paul S Person <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
> >On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 14:39:53 -0000 (UTC), jdni...@panix.com (James
> >Nicoll) wrote:
> >
> >>In article <LYFVK.131647$IRd5...@fx10.iad>,
> >>Chrysi Cat <Chry...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>On 9/16/2022 5:37 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> >>>> On 9/16/2022 5:17 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> >>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> writes:
> >>>>>> On 9/10/2022 2:48 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
> >>>>>>> I haven't seen much commentary on the Ukrainian war from the
> >>>>>>> "Russian victory is inevitable" side here recently. You guys
> >>>>>>> feeling OK?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> “Putin’s Narrowing Options" by Patrick J. Buchanan
> >>>>>> https://buchanan.org/blog/putins-narrowing-options-159644
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Pat Buchanan isn't a noted military analyst. I would take his
> >>>>> opinions with a grain ... never mind, I'd never take his opinion
> >>>>> on anything, period.
> >>>>
> >>>> Nukes are like hand grenades, you don't have to be precise.
> >>>I'll take
> >>>> Pat's opinion any day. At the end of the day, it is an
> >>>opinion like any
> >>>> one elses. And it is a fact that Putin is sitting in
> >isolation with
> >>>> 24,000 ??? nukes under his control.
> >>>>
> >>>> "A desperate Vladimir Putin is a dangerous Vladimir Putin, and
> >>>there are
> >>>> signs Putin’s situation in Ukraine may be becoming desperate.."
> >>>>
> >>>> "The longer this war goes on, and the sooner the Russian bleeding
> >>>> becomes intolerable to Putin, the more likely it is that he will
> >>>> escalate, rather than capitulate and accept defeat and
> >humiliation for
> >>>> his country and himself, leading to his removal from power."
> >>>>
> >>>> "Again, a desperate Putin is a dangerous Putin."
> >>>>
> >>>> Lynn
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>So because of that, we should have--what, turned our weapons on "the"
> >>>Ukraine ourselves and made it clear that because Putin's demand
> >is that
> >>>the Ukraine either be a Russian ally or a Russian oblast, that
> >it indeed
> >>>needs to suck it up for the rest of the world?
> >>>
> >>As a compromise, could the US not simply cede its republicans to
> >>Russia?
> >
> >All of them?
> >
> >Or just the semi-fascist ultra-MAGA ones?
> >
> >I mean, they are basically Fans of Putin (through Trump) anyway.
> I think you're being monstrously unjust to the MAGAts. In what
> sense are they _semi_ fascists?
>
> Also, in the same sense that ten people and one nazi sharing
> dinner are eleven nazis, there's no such thing as a non-MAGAt
> Republican.
> --
> My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
> My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
> My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
> My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
If sharing dinner with a MAGAt (whatever that may be, but I presume that Trump is one) makes you a MAGAt, it is an interesting exercise to work out why any particular person is a MAGAt. Trump had dinner with the late Queen, which I am pretty sure means a fairly short but indirect connection to my local MP. From there I guess the chain of not quite authority goes to managers in the firm I work for (or if not via the local MP via a lunch at some government conference or contract). Pre-covid and pre-takeover work or project start and end lunches were not uncommon, and so it reaches me,

jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote in
news:tga415$fi2$1@reader2.panix.com:

> In article <r14hihd2c2vrlngfitmpi8mr0e7fqj8avv@4ax.com>,
> Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 14:39:53 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com
>>(James Nicoll) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <LYFVK.131647$IRd5.7102@fx10.iad>,
>>>Chrysi Cat <Chrysicat@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>On 9/16/2022 5:37 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>> On 9/16/2022 5:17 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>> On 9/10/2022 2:48 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
>>>>>>>> I haven't seen much commentary on the Ukrainian war from
>>>>>>>> the "Russian victory is inevitable" side here recently.
>>>>>>>> You guys feeling OK?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> “Putin’s Narrowing Options" by Patrick J. Buchanan
>>>>>>>    
>>>>>>> https://buchanan.org/blog/putins-narrowing-options-159644
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pat Buchanan isn't a noted military analyst. I would take
>>>>>> his opinions with a grain ... never mind, I'd never take
>>>>>> his opinion on anything, period.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nukes are like hand grenades, you don't have to be
>>>>> precise. 
>>>>I'll take
>>>>> Pat's opinion any day.  At the end of the day, it is an
>>>>opinion like any
>>>>> one elses.  And it is a fact that Putin is sitting in
>>isolation with
>>>>> 24,000 ??? nukes under his control.
>>>>>
>>>>> "A desperate Vladimir Putin is a dangerous Vladimir Putin,
>>>>> and
>>>>there are
>>>>> signs Putin’s situation in Ukraine may be becoming
>>>>> desperate."
>>>>>
>>>>> "The longer this war goes on, and the sooner the Russian
>>>>> bleeding becomes intolerable to Putin, the more likely it is
>>>>> that he will escalate, rather than capitulate and accept
>>>>> defeat and
>>humiliation for
>>>>> his country and himself, leading to his removal from power."
>>>>>
>>>>> "Again, a desperate Putin is a dangerous Putin."
>>>>>
>>>>> Lynn
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>So because of that, we should have--what, turned our weapons
>>>>on "the" Ukraine ourselves and made it clear that because
>>>>Putin's demand
>>is that
>>>>the Ukraine either be a Russian ally or a Russian oblast, that
>>it indeed
>>>>needs to suck it up for the rest of the world?
>>>>
>>>As a compromise, could the US not simply cede its republicans
>>>to Russia?
>>
>>All of them?
>>
>>Or just the semi-fascist ultra-MAGA ones?
>>
>>I mean, they are basically Fans of Putin (through Trump) anyway.
>
> I think you're being monstrously unjust to the MAGAts. In what
> sense are they _semi_ fascists?
>
> Also, in the same sense that ten people and one nazi sharing
> dinner are eleven nazis, there's no such thing as a non-MAGAt
> Republican.

And lefties wonder why normal people think they're all mentally
ill.

--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

On 2022-09-18 16:03, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote in
> news:tg7ajp$pas$1@reader2.panix.com:
>
>> In article <LYFVK.131647$IRd5.7102@fx10.iad>,
>> Chrysi Cat <Chrysicat@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 9/16/2022 5:37 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>> On 9/16/2022 5:17 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>> On 9/10/2022 2:48 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
>>>>>>> I haven't seen much commentary on the Ukrainian war from
>>>>>>> the "Russian victory is inevitable" side here recently. You
>>>>>>> guys feeling OK?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “Putin’s Narrowing Options" by Patrick J. Buchanan
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://buchanan.org/blog/putins-narrowing-options-159644
>>>>>
>>>>> Pat Buchanan isn't a noted military analyst. I would take his
>>>>> opinions with a grain ... never mind, I'd never take his
>>>>> opinion on anything, period.
>>>>
>>>> Nukes are like hand grenades, you don't have to be precise.
>>> I'll take
>>>> Pat's opinion any day.  At the end of the day, it is an
>>> opinion like any
>>>> one elses.  And it is a fact that Putin is sitting in
>>>> isolation with 24,000 ??? nukes under his control.
>>>>
>>>> "A desperate Vladimir Putin is a dangerous Vladimir Putin, and
>>> there are
>>>> signs Putin’s situation in Ukraine may be becoming
>>>> desperate."
>>>>
>>>> "The longer this war goes on, and the sooner the Russian
>>>> bleeding becomes intolerable to Putin, the more likely it is
>>>> that he will escalate, rather than capitulate and accept
>>>> defeat and humiliation for his country and himself, leading to
>>>> his removal from power."
>>>>
>>>> "Again, a desperate Putin is a dangerous Putin."
>>>>
>>>> Lynn
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> So because of that, we should have--what, turned our weapons on
>>> "the" Ukraine ourselves and made it clear that because Putin's
>>> demand is that the Ukraine either be a Russian ally or a Russian
>>> oblast, that it indeed needs to suck it up for the rest of the
>>> world?
>>>
>> As a compromise, could the US not simply cede its republicans to
>> Russia?
>
> It would be far more just to cede the 51st state, which is to say
> Canda, to them.
>

LOLOLOLOLOLOL!

Wait, what....

....you were serious?

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

On 2022-09-19 09:32, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote in
> news:tga415$fi2$1@reader2.panix.com:
>
>> In article <r14hihd2c2vrlngfitmpi8mr0e7fqj8avv@4ax.com>,
>> Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 14:39:53 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com
>>> (James Nicoll) wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <LYFVK.131647$IRd5.7102@fx10.iad>,
>>>> Chrysi Cat <Chrysicat@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 9/16/2022 5:37 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/16/2022 5:17 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>>> On 9/10/2022 2:48 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I haven't seen much commentary on the Ukrainian war from
>>>>>>>>> the "Russian victory is inevitable" side here recently.
>>>>>>>>> You guys feeling OK?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> “Putin’s Narrowing Options" by Patrick J. Buchanan
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://buchanan.org/blog/putins-narrowing-options-159644
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pat Buchanan isn't a noted military analyst. I would take
>>>>>>> his opinions with a grain ... never mind, I'd never take
>>>>>>> his opinion on anything, period.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nukes are like hand grenades, you don't have to be
>>>>>> precise.
>>>>> I'll take
>>>>>> Pat's opinion any day.  At the end of the day, it is an
>>>>> opinion like any
>>>>>> one elses.  And it is a fact that Putin is sitting in
>>> isolation with
>>>>>> 24,000 ??? nukes under his control.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "A desperate Vladimir Putin is a dangerous Vladimir Putin,
>>>>>> and
>>>>> there are
>>>>>> signs Putin’s situation in Ukraine may be becoming
>>>>>> desperate."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "The longer this war goes on, and the sooner the Russian
>>>>>> bleeding becomes intolerable to Putin, the more likely it is
>>>>>> that he will escalate, rather than capitulate and accept
>>>>>> defeat and
>>> humiliation for
>>>>>> his country and himself, leading to his removal from power."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Again, a desperate Putin is a dangerous Putin."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lynn
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So because of that, we should have--what, turned our weapons
>>>>> on "the" Ukraine ourselves and made it clear that because
>>>>> Putin's demand
>>> is that
>>>>> the Ukraine either be a Russian ally or a Russian oblast, that
>>> it indeed
>>>>> needs to suck it up for the rest of the world?
>>>>>
>>>> As a compromise, could the US not simply cede its republicans
>>>> to Russia?
>>>
>>> All of them?
>>>
>>> Or just the semi-fascist ultra-MAGA ones?
>>>
>>> I mean, they are basically Fans of Putin (through Trump) anyway.
>>
>> I think you're being monstrously unjust to the MAGAts. In what
>> sense are they _semi_ fascists?
>>
>> Also, in the same sense that ten people and one nazi sharing
>> dinner are eleven nazis, there's no such thing as a non-MAGAt
>> Republican.
>
> And lefties wonder why normal people think they're all mentally
> ill.
>

You really don't understand what the word "irony" means...

....do you?

:-)

On Mon, 19 Sep 2022 08:53:33 -0700, Paul S Person wrote:

> On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 14:39:53 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
> Nicoll) wrote:
>
>>In article <LYFVK.131647$IRd5.7102@fx10.iad>,
>>Chrysi Cat <Chrysicat@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>On 9/16/2022 5:37 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>> On 9/16/2022 5:17 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>> On 9/10/2022 2:48 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
>>>>>>> I haven't seen much commentary on the Ukrainian war from the
>>>>>>> "Russian victory is inevitable" side here recently. You guys
>>>>>>> feeling OK?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “Putin’s Narrowing Options" by Patrick J. Buchanan    
>>>>>> https://buchanan.org/blog/putins-narrowing-options-159644
>>>>>
>>>>> Pat Buchanan isn't a noted military analyst. I would take his
>>>>> opinions with a grain ... never mind, I'd never take his opinion on
>>>>> anything, period.
>>>>
>>>> Nukes are like hand grenades, you don't have to be precise.Â
>>>I'll take
>>>> Pat's opinion any day.  At the end of the day, it is an
>>>opinion like any
>>>> one elses.  And it is a fact that Putin is sitting in isolation with
>>>> 24,000 ??? nukes under his control.
>>>>
>>>> "A desperate Vladimir Putin is a dangerous Vladimir Putin, and
>>>there are
>>>> signs Putin’s situation in Ukraine may be becoming desperate."
>>>>
>>>> "The longer this war goes on, and the sooner the Russian bleeding
>>>> becomes intolerable to Putin, the more likely it is that he will
>>>> escalate, rather than capitulate and accept defeat and humiliation
>>>> for his country and himself, leading to his removal from power."
>>>>
>>>> "Again, a desperate Putin is a dangerous Putin."
>>>>
>>>> Lynn
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>So because of that, we should have--what, turned our weapons on "the"
>>>Ukraine ourselves and made it clear that because Putin's demand is that
>>>the Ukraine either be a Russian ally or a Russian oblast, that it
>>>indeed needs to suck it up for the rest of the world?
>>>
>>As a compromise, could the US not simply cede its republicans to Russia?
>
> All of them?
>
> Or just the semi-fascist ultra-MAGA ones?
>
> I mean, they are basically Fans of Putin (through Trump) anyway.

Can we give the authoritarian neo-puritan left to china instead?

On 9/19/2022 11:35 AM, Alan wrote:
> On 2022-09-19 09:32, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>> jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote in
>> news:tga415$fi2$1@reader2.panix.com:
>>
>>> In article <r14hihd2c2vrlngfitmpi8mr0e7fqj8avv@4ax.com>,
>>> Paul S Person  <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 14:39:53 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com
>>>> (James Nicoll) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In article <LYFVK.131647$IRd5.7102@fx10.iad>,
>>>>> Chrysi Cat  <Chrysicat@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/16/2022 5:37 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>>>> On 9/16/2022 5:17 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>>>> On 9/10/2022 2:48 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I haven't seen much commentary on the Ukrainian war from
>>>>>>>>>> the "Russian victory is inevitable" side here recently.
>>>>>>>>>> You guys feeling OK?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> “Putin’s Narrowing Options" by Patrick J. Buchanan
>>>>>>>>> https://buchanan.org/blog/putins-narrowing-options-159644
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Pat Buchanan isn't a noted military analyst. I would take
>>>>>>>> his opinions with a grain ... never mind, I'd never take
>>>>>>>> his opinion on anything, period.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nukes are like hand grenades, you don't have to be
>>>>>>> precise.
>>>>>> I'll take
>>>>>>> Pat's opinion any day.  At the end of the day, it is an
>>>>>> opinion like any
>>>>>>> one elses.  And it is a fact that Putin is sitting in
>>>> isolation with
>>>>>>> 24,000 ??? nukes under his control.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "A desperate Vladimir Putin is a dangerous Vladimir Putin,
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>> there are
>>>>>>> signs Putin’s situation in Ukraine may be becoming
>>>>>>> desperate."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "The longer this war goes on, and the sooner the Russian
>>>>>>> bleeding becomes intolerable to Putin, the more likely it is
>>>>>>> that he will escalate, rather than capitulate and accept
>>>>>>> defeat and
>>>> humiliation for
>>>>>>> his country and himself, leading to his removal from power."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Again, a desperate Putin is a dangerous Putin."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lynn
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So because of that, we should have--what, turned our weapons
>>>>>> on "the" Ukraine ourselves and made it clear that because
>>>>>> Putin's demand
>>>> is that
>>>>>> the Ukraine either be a Russian ally or a Russian oblast, that
>>>> it indeed
>>>>>> needs to suck it up for the rest of the world?
>>>>>>
>>>>> As a compromise, could the US not simply cede its republicans
>>>>> to Russia?
>>>>
>>>> All of them?
>>>>
>>>> Or just the semi-fascist ultra-MAGA ones?
>>>>
>>>> I mean, they are basically Fans of Putin (through Trump) anyway.
>>>
>>> I think you're being monstrously unjust to the MAGAts. In what
>>> sense are they _semi_ fascists?
>>>
>>> Also, in the same sense that ten people and one nazi sharing
>>> dinner are eleven nazis, there's no such thing as a non-MAGAt
>>> Republican.
>>
>> And lefties wonder why normal people think they're all mentally
>> ill.
>>
>
> You really don't understand what the word "irony" means...
>
> ...do you?
>
> :-)

That thing people used to do to their shirts with an iron?

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On 19 Sep 2022, Magewolf wrote
(in article <tgar5p$18krq$1@dont-email.me>):

> On Mon, 19 Sep 2022 08:53:33 -0700, Paul S Person wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 14:39:53 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
> > Nicoll) wrote:
> >
> > > In article<LYFVK.131647$IRd5.7102@fx10.iad>,
> > > Chrysi Cat <Chrysicat@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On 9/16/2022 5:37 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> > > > > On 9/16/2022 5:17 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> > > > > > Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
> > > > > > > On 9/10/2022 2:48 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
> > > > > > > > I haven't seen much commentary on the Ukrainian war from the
> > > > > > > > "Russian victory is inevitable" side here recently. You guys
> > > > > > > > feeling OK?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > “Putin’s Narrowing Options" by Patrick J. Buchanan ÂÂÂ
> > > > > > > https://buchanan.org/blog/putins-narrowing-options-159644
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Pat Buchanan isn't a noted military analyst. I would take his
> > > > > > opinions with a grain ... never mind, I'd never take his opinion on
> > > > > > anything, period.
> > > > >
> > > > > Nukes are like hand grenades, you don't have to be precise.Â
> > > > I'll take
> > > > > Pat's opinion any day. At the end of the day, it is an
> > > > opinion like any
> > > > > one elses. And it is a fact that Putin is sitting in isolation with
> > > > > 24,000 ??? nukes under his control.
> > > > >
> > > > > "A desperate Vladimir Putin is a dangerous Vladimir Putin, and
> > > > there are
> > > > > signs Putin’s situation in Ukraine may be becoming desperate."
> > > > >
> > > > > "The longer this war goes on, and the sooner the Russian bleeding
> > > > > becomes intolerable to Putin, the more likely it is that he will
> > > > > escalate, rather than capitulate and accept defeat and humiliation
> > > > > for his country and himself, leading to his removal from power."
> > > > >
> > > > > "Again, a desperate Putin is a dangerous Putin."
> > > > >
> > > > > Lynn
> > > > So because of that, we should have--what, turned our weapons on "the"
> > > > Ukraine ourselves and made it clear that because Putin's demand is that
> > > > the Ukraine either be a Russian ally or a Russian oblast, that it
> > > > indeed needs to suck it up for the rest of the world?
> > > As a compromise, could the US not simply cede its republicans to Russia?
> >
> > All of them?
> >
> > Or just the semi-fascist ultra-MAGA ones?
> >
> > I mean, they are basically Fans of Putin (through Trump) anyway.
>
> Can we give the authoritarian neo-puritan left to china instead?

only if they could be forced to try to make Pooh Bear Xi read The Little Red
Book.

On 9/19/2022 5:40 PM, Magewolf wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Sep 2022 08:53:33 -0700, Paul S Person wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 14:39:53 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
>> Nicoll) wrote:
>>
>>> In article <LYFVK.131647$IRd5.7102@fx10.iad>,
>>> Chrysi Cat <Chrysicat@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 9/16/2022 5:37 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>> On 9/16/2022 5:17 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>> On 9/10/2022 2:48 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
>>>>>>>> I haven't seen much commentary on the Ukrainian war from the
>>>>>>>> "Russian victory is inevitable" side here recently. You guys
>>>>>>>> feeling OK?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> “Putin’s Narrowing Options" by Patrick J. Buchanan   Â
>>>>>>> https://buchanan.org/blog/putins-narrowing-options-159644
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pat Buchanan isn't a noted military analyst. I would take his
>>>>>> opinions with a grain ... never mind, I'd never take his opinion on
>>>>>> anything, period.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nukes are like hand grenades, you don't have to be precise.Â
>>>> I'll take
>>>>> Pat's opinion any day.  At the end of the day, it is an
>>>> opinion like any
>>>>> one elses.  And it is a fact that Putin is sitting in isolation with
>>>>> 24,000 ??? nukes under his control.
>>>>>
>>>>> "A desperate Vladimir Putin is a dangerous Vladimir Putin, and
>>>> there are
>>>>> signs Putin’s situation in Ukraine may be becoming desperate."
>>>>>
>>>>> "The longer this war goes on, and the sooner the Russian bleeding
>>>>> becomes intolerable to Putin, the more likely it is that he will
>>>>> escalate, rather than capitulate and accept defeat and humiliation
>>>>> for his country and himself, leading to his removal from power."
>>>>>
>>>>> "Again, a desperate Putin is a dangerous Putin."
>>>>>
>>>>> Lynn
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> So because of that, we should have--what, turned our weapons on "the"
>>>> Ukraine ourselves and made it clear that because Putin's demand is that
>>>> the Ukraine either be a Russian ally or a Russian oblast, that it
>>>> indeed needs to suck it up for the rest of the world?
>>>>
>>> As a compromise, could the US not simply cede its republicans to Russia?
>>
>> All of them?
>>
>> Or just the semi-fascist ultra-MAGA ones?
>>
>> I mean, they are basically Fans of Putin (through Trump) anyway.
>
> Can we give the authoritarian neo-puritan left to china instead?

Especially the ones in Martha's Vineyard that refused to help those poor
refugees.

Lynn

On Monday, September 19, 2022 at 5:12:07 PM UTC-6, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> On 9/19/2022 11:35 AM, Alan wrote:
> > On 2022-09-19 09:32, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> >> jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote in
> >> news:tga415$fi2$1...@reader2.panix.com:

> >>> I think you're being monstrously unjust to the MAGAts. In what
> >>> sense are they _semi_ fascists?
> >>>
> >>> Also, in the same sense that ten people and one nazi sharing
> >>> dinner are eleven nazis, there's no such thing as a non-MAGAt
> >>> Republican.
> >>
> >> And lefties wonder why normal people think they're all mentally
> >> ill.

> > You really don't understand what the word "irony" means...
> >
> > ...do you?
> >
> > :-)

I think you're being monstrously unfair to Terry Austin.

I think that James Nicoll was being deadly serious that there
is at least a sense in which "ten people and one Nazi sharing
dinner are eleven Nazis", and so Terry Austin correctly
recognized that irony and sarcasm were not intended.
After all, the Nazis were monstrous and hateful. Anyone who
(without a good reason) would sit down beside them at
dinner as though there was nothing wrong is _indeed_
giving others good reason to suspect them of being morally
defective.
Now, look at the Republican caucus in the Senate and House
of Representatives, and their behavior with respect to the
events of January 6, 2021 - or the impeachment of Donald
J. Trump - and so on and so forth.
The Republicans - with very few exceptions - are showing
themselves to be the party of Trump, the party of voter
suppression, the party of gerrymandering.
They really don't want to be burdened with the problem of
being voted out any longer.

> That thing people used to do to their shirts with an iron?

No, that's ironing.

John Savard

On Monday, September 19, 2022 at 7:14:23 PM UTC-6, Lynn McGuire wrote:

> Especially the ones in Martha's Vineyard that refused to help those poor
> refugees.

I have to admit that there's a valid issue here.

In California, at least the cities making themselves 'sanctuary cities' are
reasonably close to the Mexican border.

If New York or Martha's Vineyard are just engaged in virtue signalling, well,
they may deserve to have a few busloads of refugees sent their way.

However, I don't think they are; I think they were protecting Middle Eastern
refugee claimants that Trump was going to send back. In violation,
mind you, of an international treaty about refugee claimants to which the
United States is a signatory.

This reminds me. Some advocates for immigrants in Canada asked for
Canada to withdraw from a treaty with the United States that recognized
it as a 'safe third country'. I disagreed with that.

For the simple reason that I felt they misunderstood our rights and
obligations under that treaty. It imposed on us the obligation to accept
refugees who left Canada for the United States that the United States
chose to send back to us because they were already safe in Canada.
It gave us the *right*, not the obligation, to send refugees who left the
United States for Canada back to the United States.

So we were perfectly free to _keep_ refugees from the Middle East
who went to Canada because Trump would send them back... without
having to withdraw from the treaty.

John Savard

On 20/09/22 10:40, Magewolf wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Sep 2022 08:53:33 -0700, Paul S Person wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 14:39:53 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
>> Nicoll) wrote:
>>

snip

>>>>
>>> As a compromise, could the US not simply cede its republicans to Russia?
>>
>> All of them?
>>
>> Or just the semi-fascist ultra-MAGA ones?
>>
>> I mean, they are basically Fans of Putin (through Trump) anyway.
>
> Can we give the authoritarian neo-puritan left to china instead?

Good idea. China could swap the Taiwanese but not Taiwan, otherwise
Texans would still be in Texas if you agree with my proposal which is:
Why not both?

On 20/09/22 11:12, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> On 9/19/2022 11:35 AM, Alan wrote:
snnippage

>>
>> You really don't understand what the word "irony" means...
>>
>
> That thing people used to do to their shirts with an iron?

I never really understood that; I think it helps people feel righteous.
A male Maori leader (of a minor populous New Zealand political party)
desperate to be more English than his white adversaries, marked his
superiority by publicising his diligent attention to ironing his socks
and underwear.

On 20/09/22 16:38, Titus G wrote:
> On 20/09/22 10:40, Magewolf wrote:
>> On Mon, 19 Sep 2022 08:53:33 -0700, Paul S Person wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 14:39:53 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
>>> Nicoll) wrote:
>>>
>
> snip
>
>>>>>
>>>> As a compromise, could the US not simply cede its republicans to Russia?
>>>
>>> All of them?
>>>
>>> Or just the semi-fascist ultra-MAGA ones?
>>>
>>> I mean, they are basically Fans of Putin (through Trump) anyway.
>>
>> Can we give the authoritarian neo-puritan left to china instead?
>
> Good idea. China could swap the Taiwanese but not Taiwan, otherwise
> Texans would still be in Texas if you agree with my proposal which is:
> Why not both?
>
I've just realised why not. China and Russia are currently tolerating
each other.

On 19/09/2022 20.14, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 9/19/2022 5:40 PM, Magewolf wrote:
>> On Mon, 19 Sep 2022 08:53:33 -0700, Paul S Person wrote:

>> Can we give the authoritarian neo-puritan left to china instead?
>
> Especially the ones in Martha's Vineyard that refused to help those poor refugees.

Don't let the facts get in the way of your blind hatred:

[...] "Given that they were suddenly dropped in Martha's Vineyard
it's hard for a lot of folks to create a plan given how quickly they
were transferred. Not a moment's notice to craft that plan,"
said Rosenfeld.

<https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/refugee-groups-help-migrants-relocated-marthas-vineyard-florida/>

On Wednesday afternoon when two planes arrived unannounced at Martha’s
Vineyard Airport carrying the migrants and refugees, Island social
services, public safety, school officials, and volunteers sprung into
action creating a temporary shelter at St. Andrew’s Church in Edgartown.
That was always seen as a short-term solution because of the crowded
conditions and lack of facilities at the church and its rectory.

<https://www.mvtimes.com/2022/09/19/marthas-vineyard-remains-national-spotlight/>

Volunteers on the island rallied to provide clothing, shoes, food,
and interpreters after the refugees’ arrival. The ordeal has garnered
national attention, as state and federal officials scramble to find
answers on the circumstances of the flights.

“While Wednesday’s arrival on Martha’s Vineyard was unexpected, the
extraordinary response was not,” Public Safety and Security Secretary
Terrence Reidy said in a statement.

<https://www.wpri.com/new-england/massachusetts/venezuelan-refugees-moved-from-marthas-vineyard-to-cape-cod/>

--
Michael F. Stemper
Economists have correctly predicted seven of the last three recessions.