Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> writes:
>On Monday, September 19, 2022 at 7:14:23 PM UTC-6, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>
>> Especially the ones in Martha's Vineyard that refused to help those poor
>> refugees.
>
>I have to admit that there's a valid issue here.
>
>In California, at least the cities making themselves 'sanctuary cities' are
>reasonably close to the Mexican border.

For some value of reasonable that include 500 miles.

Considering that the majority of asylum seekers _don't_ come from
Mexico, I'm not sure what your point is...

Syria and Venezuela are the top two sources, worldwide, and
Venezuela and the Central American states such as Guatemala
are the top sources for the USA. Note, not Mexico.

In the USA, China, Venezuela, El Salvador, Guatemala and Egypt
accounted for 48.1% of the 46,130 granted asylum in 2019.

https://www.dhs.gov/immigration-statistics/refugees-asylees

On 9/19/2022 9:57 PM, Titus G wrote:
> On 20/09/22 11:12, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>> On 9/19/2022 11:35 AM, Alan wrote:
> snnippage
>
>>>
>>> You really don't understand what the word "irony" means...
>>>
>>
>> That thing people used to do to their shirts with an iron?
>
> I never really understood that; I think it helps people feel righteous.
> A male Maori leader (of a minor populous New Zealand political party)
> desperate to be more English than his white adversaries, marked his
> superiority by publicising his diligent attention to ironing his socks
> and underwear.

Fashion and conformity, that's all it is.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On 9/19/2022 10:01 PM, Titus G wrote:
>
> On 20/09/22 16:38, Titus G wrote:
>> On 20/09/22 10:40, Magewolf wrote:
>>> On Mon, 19 Sep 2022 08:53:33 -0700, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 14:39:53 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
>>>> Nicoll) wrote:
>>>>
>>
>> snip
>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> As a compromise, could the US not simply cede its republicans to Russia?
>>>>
>>>> All of them?
>>>>
>>>> Or just the semi-fascist ultra-MAGA ones?
>>>>
>>>> I mean, they are basically Fans of Putin (through Trump) anyway.
>>>
>>> Can we give the authoritarian neo-puritan left to china instead?
>>
>> Good idea. China could swap the Taiwanese but not Taiwan, otherwise
>> Texans would still be in Texas if you agree with my proposal which is:
>> Why not both?
>>
> I've just realised why not. China and Russia are currently tolerating
> each other.

Well, they've been tolerating each other for some time. On the other
hand China just played Putin and Russia big time by appearing to become
more friendly and then refusing to provide anything to support Russia's
war with Ukraine.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On Tue, 20 Sep 2022 16:57:02 +1200, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:

>On 20/09/22 11:12, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>> On 9/19/2022 11:35 AM, Alan wrote:
>snnippage
>
>>>
>>> You really don't understand what the word "irony" means...
>>>
>>
>> That thing people used to do to their shirts with an iron?
>
>I never really understood that; I think it helps people feel righteous.
>A male Maori leader (of a minor populous New Zealand political party)
>desperate to be more English than his white adversaries, marked his
>superiority by publicising his diligent attention to ironing his socks
>and underwear.

Clothes were ironed to get the wrinkles out.

Of course, nowadays, there aren't any wrinkles. "Perma-Prest" is,
IIRC, an early term for trousers that didn't need to be ironed.

Alternately, nowadays, nobody cares about wrinkles.
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

On Mon, 19 Sep 2022 22:40:58 -0000 (UTC), Magewolf
<Magewolf@nc.rr.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 19 Sep 2022 08:53:33 -0700, Paul S Person wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 14:39:53 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
>> Nicoll) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <LYFVK.131647$IRd5.7102@fx10.iad>,
>>>Chrysi Cat <Chrysicat@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>On 9/16/2022 5:37 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>> On 9/16/2022 5:17 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>> On 9/10/2022 2:48 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
>>>>>>>> I haven't seen much commentary on the Ukrainian war from the
>>>>>>>> "Russian victory is inevitable" side here recently. You guys
>>>>>>>> feeling OK?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> â??Putinâ??s Narrowing Options" by Patrick J. Buchanan    
>>>>>>> https://buchanan.org/blog/putins-narrowing-options-159644
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pat Buchanan isn't a noted military analyst. I would take his
>>>>>> opinions with a grain ... never mind, I'd never take his opinion on
>>>>>> anything, period.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nukes are like hand grenades, you don't have to be precise.Â
>>>>I'll take
>>>>> Pat's opinion any day.  At the end of the day, it is an
>>>>opinion like any
>>>>> one elses.  And it is a fact that Putin is sitting in isolation with
>>>>> 24,000 ??? nukes under his control.
>>>>>
>>>>> "A desperate Vladimir Putin is a dangerous Vladimir Putin, and
>>>>there are
>>>>> signs Putinâ??s situation in Ukraine may be becoming desperate."
>>>>>
>>>>> "The longer this war goes on, and the sooner the Russian bleeding
>>>>> becomes intolerable to Putin, the more likely it is that he will
>>>>> escalate, rather than capitulate and accept defeat and humiliation
>>>>> for his country and himself, leading to his removal from power."
>>>>>
>>>>> "Again, a desperate Putin is a dangerous Putin."
>>>>>
>>>>> Lynn
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>So because of that, we should have--what, turned our weapons on "the"
>>>>Ukraine ourselves and made it clear that because Putin's demand is that
>>>>the Ukraine either be a Russian ally or a Russian oblast, that it
>>>>indeed needs to suck it up for the rest of the world?
>>>>
>>>As a compromise, could the US not simply cede its republicans to Russia?
>>
>> All of them?
>>
>> Or just the semi-fascist ultra-MAGA ones?
>>
>> I mean, they are basically Fans of Putin (through Trump) anyway.
>
>Can we give the authoritarian neo-puritan left to china instead?

Absolutely!

I'm sure Bernie and his friends would be delighted!
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

On Tue, 20 Sep 2022 08:07:09 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"
<michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 19/09/2022 20.14, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> On 9/19/2022 5:40 PM, Magewolf wrote:
>>> On Mon, 19 Sep 2022 08:53:33 -0700, Paul S Person wrote:
>
>>> Can we give the authoritarian neo-puritan left to china instead?
>>
>> Especially the ones in Martha's Vineyard that refused to help those poor refugees.
>
>
>Don't let the facts get in the way of your blind hatred:

Now, now -- they're just quoting a DeSantis/Trump/Putin Talking Point.

They may believe it, they may not believe, it doesn't matter --
they're a fool either way.

("They" used in the singular sense recently touted here.)

> [...] "Given that they were suddenly dropped in Martha's Vineyard
> it's hard for a lot of folks to create a plan given how quickly they
> were transferred. Not a moment's notice to craft that plan,"
> said Rosenfeld.
>
><https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/refugee-groups-help-migrants-relocated-marthas-vineyard-florida/>
>
>
> On Wednesday afternoon when two planes arrived unannounced at Martha’s
> Vineyard Airport carrying the migrants and refugees, Island social
> services, public safety, school officials, and volunteers sprung into
> action creating a temporary shelter at St. Andrew’s Church in Edgartown.
> That was always seen as a short-term solution because of the crowded
> conditions and lack of facilities at the church and its rectory.
>
><https://www.mvtimes.com/2022/09/19/marthas-vineyard-remains-national-spotlight/>
>
>
> Volunteers on the island rallied to provide clothing, shoes, food,
> and interpreters after the refugees’ arrival. The ordeal has garnered
> national attention, as state and federal officials scramble to find
> answers on the circumstances of the flights.
>
> “While Wednesday’s arrival on Martha’s Vineyard was unexpected, the
> extraordinary response was not,” Public Safety and Security Secretary
> Terrence Reidy said in a statement.
>
><https://www.wpri.com/new-england/massachusetts/venezuelan-refugees-moved-from-marthas-vineyard-to-cape-cod/>

I would expect nothing less from the locals.

Just as I would expect nothing less from DeSantis.
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

On Tue, 20 Sep 2022 17:01:43 +1200, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:

>
>On 20/09/22 16:38, Titus G wrote:
>> On 20/09/22 10:40, Magewolf wrote:
>>> On Mon, 19 Sep 2022 08:53:33 -0700, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 14:39:53 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
>>>> Nicoll) wrote:
>>>>
>>
>> snip
>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> As a compromise, could the US not simply cede its republicans to Russia?
>>>>
>>>> All of them?
>>>>
>>>> Or just the semi-fascist ultra-MAGA ones?
>>>>
>>>> I mean, they are basically Fans of Putin (through Trump) anyway.
>>>
>>> Can we give the authoritarian neo-puritan left to china instead?
>>
>> Good idea. China could swap the Taiwanese but not Taiwan, otherwise
>> Texans would still be in Texas if you agree with my proposal which is:
>> Why not both?
>>
>I've just realised why not. China and Russia are currently tolerating
>each other.

I see reports that cracks appear to be present.

Perhaps China is dismayed to find that not only is Russia losing,
Taiwan is still standing firm, as is its USA support.
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 21:02:55 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

>For most of that period (15th-18th Cent.), competition for Empire was strong
>amongst all the European monarchs.

While historically that's true, the main leaders of the Western
alliance (Britain, Germany, France and most especially the USA) don't
pay much attention to 15th-18th century developments.

After all it was only IN the 18th century that there even was a United
States and the modern US military doesn't pay too close attention to
the lessons taught them in the 18th century by George Washington who
was after all the most notable US general of the 18th century.

And if the 15th to 18th is your standard you're undoubtedly paying far
more attention to Poland and Lithuania than you should particularly if
you lead an eastern European state!

On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 21:45:59 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

>(Hal Heydt)
>I don't meet that threshhold, but the eponymous Heydt--my
>great-grandfather Carl Otto Heydt--emmigrated from Prussia.
>Don't know if it was East or West, though, since he left rather
>than get drafted to fight in the Franco-Prussian War of 1870.

So should I hate you?

My grandmother was an Alsatian who always considered herself French
despite being born after 1871. Her parents didn't see any future in
Germany so they emigrated to America in the 1880s where she met my
grandfather and sort of lived happily ever after ("sort of" meaning 6
children but #3 + 4 died young while the rest of them grew up fine in
the western US) In an interview with my aunt (who recorded it in her
family history) my grandfather said she cried tears of joy on
11/11/1918 since she knew what it meant for Alsace even though she had
been an American for 30 years...

On Fri, 16 Sep 2022 15:23:25 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 9/10/2022 2:48 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
>> I haven't seen much commentary on the Ukrainian war from the
>> "Russian victory is inevitable" side here recently. You guys
>> feeling OK?
>
>“Putin’s Narrowing Options" by Patrick J. Buchanan
> https://buchanan.org/blog/putins-narrowing-options-159644
>
>“Early in this war, Russia’s hawks talked openly of the possible use of
>tactical nuclear weapons. That talk has begun anew.”
>
>Don't stand next to the guy throwing fecal matter at an armed man.
>
>Lynn
>
Interesting - that web page says "read 228 times" which is rather less
(a LOT less) than I would have expected from that particular author
notwithstanding the way a lot of people (including myself) reacted to
what he said about Hitler.

On Fri, 16 Sep 2022 18:37:23 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

>"A desperate Vladimir Putin is a dangerous Vladimir Putin, and there are
>signs Putin’s situation in Ukraine may be becoming desperate."
>
>"The longer this war goes on, and the sooner the Russian bleeding
>becomes intolerable to Putin, the more likely it is that he will
>escalate, rather than capitulate and accept defeat and humiliation for
>his country and himself, leading to his removal from power."
>
>"Again, a desperate Putin is a dangerous Putin."
>
Were Putin to actually use nukes of any sort I would think Biden would
instantly demand regime change as the price of peace and offer fairly
"soft" terms if that's achieved. Or no terms at all without that.

In article <dotjihtv4jgv1p30v64e9q4ovgfosp3pm8@4ax.com>,
The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 21:45:59 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>Heydt) wrote:
>
>>(Hal Heydt)
>>I don't meet that threshhold, but the eponymous Heydt--my
>>great-grandfather Carl Otto Heydt--emmigrated from Prussia.
>>Don't know if it was East or West, though, since he left rather
>>than get drafted to fight in the Franco-Prussian War of 1870.
>
>So should I hate you?
>
>My grandmother was an Alsatian who always considered herself French
>despite being born after 1871. Her parents didn't see any future in
>Germany so they emigrated to America in the 1880s where she met my
>grandfather and sort of lived happily ever after ("sort of" meaning 6
>children but #3 + 4 died young while the rest of them grew up fine in
>the western US) In an interview with my aunt (who recorded it in her
>family history) my grandfather said she cried tears of joy on
>11/11/1918 since she knew what it meant for Alsace even though she had
>been an American for 30 years...

(Hal Heydt)
Quite the opposite, I should think. After all, my
great-grandfather *didn't* fight for Wilhelm I.

On the other hand, you should think kindly of Dorothy. An uncle
of hers was a pilot in the Lafayette Escadrille, and so
contributed to the defeat of Germany in WW1. You can think well
of both of us because our respective fathers both served in US
forces in WW2. Hers as an Army officer helping train Army Air
Corps pilots and mine as part of the US Maritime Service
re-training ships engineers on the new power systems that were
bing installed.

Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
news:549c1719-4deb-49d8-84b8-06b31cc5aaadn@googlegroups.com:

> On Monday, September 19, 2022 at 5:12:07 PM UTC-6, Dimensional
> Traveler wrote:
>> On 9/19/2022 11:35 AM, Alan wrote:
>> > On 2022-09-19 09:32, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>> >> jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote in
>> >> news:tga415$fi2$1...@reader2.panix.com:
>
>> >>> I think you're being monstrously unjust to the MAGAts. In
>> >>> what sense are they _semi_ fascists?
>> >>>
>> >>> Also, in the same sense that ten people and one nazi
>> >>> sharing dinner are eleven nazis, there's no such thing as a
>> >>> non-MAGAt Republican.
>> >>
>> >> And lefties wonder why normal people think they're all
>> >> mentally ill.
>
>> > You really don't understand what the word "irony" means...
>> >
>> > ...do you?
>> >
>> > :-)
>
> I think you're being monstrously unfair to Terry Austin.
>
> I think that James Nicoll was being deadly serious that there
> is at least a sense in which "ten people and one Nazi sharing
> dinner are eleven Nazis", and so Terry Austin correctly
> recognized that irony and sarcasm were not intended.
> After all, the Nazis were monstrous and hateful. Anyone who
> (without a good reason) would sit down beside them at
> dinner as though there was nothing wrong is _indeed_
> giving others good reason to suspect them of being morally
> defective.
> Now, look at the Republican caucus in the Senate and House
> of Representatives, and their behavior with respect to the
> events of January 6, 2021 - or the impeachment of Donald
> J. Trump - and so on and so forth.
> The Republicans - with very few exceptions - are showing
> themselves to be the party of Trump, the party of voter
> suppression, the party of gerrymandering.
> They really don't want to be burdened with the problem of
> being voted out any longer.

And Biden just accused anyone who disagrees with his puppeteers'
opiinions of treason.

They're *all* bathing in it. Irony, and corruption, and stupidity.

--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote in
news:japjih9h2cgseafbd90lg0pc49c6g5ifg9@4ax.com:

> Alternately, nowadays, nobody cares about wrinkles.

The fasion these days is to not care about clothes not having holes
in them.

--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

On 2022-09-20 12:58, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
> news:549c1719-4deb-49d8-84b8-06b31cc5aaadn@googlegroups.com:
>
>> On Monday, September 19, 2022 at 5:12:07 PM UTC-6, Dimensional
>> Traveler wrote:
>>> On 9/19/2022 11:35 AM, Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2022-09-19 09:32, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>>>> jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote in
>>>>> news:tga415$fi2$1...@reader2.panix.com:
>>
>>>>>> I think you're being monstrously unjust to the MAGAts. In
>>>>>> what sense are they _semi_ fascists?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, in the same sense that ten people and one nazi
>>>>>> sharing dinner are eleven nazis, there's no such thing as a
>>>>>> non-MAGAt Republican.
>>>>>
>>>>> And lefties wonder why normal people think they're all
>>>>> mentally ill.
>>
>>>> You really don't understand what the word "irony" means...
>>>>
>>>> ...do you?
>>>>
>>>> :-)
>>
>> I think you're being monstrously unfair to Terry Austin.
>>
>> I think that James Nicoll was being deadly serious that there
>> is at least a sense in which "ten people and one Nazi sharing
>> dinner are eleven Nazis", and so Terry Austin correctly
>> recognized that irony and sarcasm were not intended.
>> After all, the Nazis were monstrous and hateful. Anyone who
>> (without a good reason) would sit down beside them at
>> dinner as though there was nothing wrong is _indeed_
>> giving others good reason to suspect them of being morally
>> defective.
>> Now, look at the Republican caucus in the Senate and House
>> of Representatives, and their behavior with respect to the
>> events of January 6, 2021 - or the impeachment of Donald
>> J. Trump - and so on and so forth.
>> The Republicans - with very few exceptions - are showing
>> themselves to be the party of Trump, the party of voter
>> suppression, the party of gerrymandering.
>> They really don't want to be burdened with the problem of
>> being voted out any longer.
>
> And Biden just accused anyone who disagrees with his puppeteers'
> opiinions of treason.

Really?

Then let's see the quote.

On Tue, 20 Sep 2022 09:09:56 -0700, Paul S Person wrote:

> On Mon, 19 Sep 2022 22:40:58 -0000 (UTC), Magewolf <Magewolf@nc.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 19 Sep 2022 08:53:33 -0700, Paul S Person wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 14:39:53 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
>>> Nicoll) wrote:
>>>
>>>>In article <LYFVK.131647$IRd5.7102@fx10.iad>,
>>>>Chrysi Cat <Chrysicat@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>On 9/16/2022 5:37 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/16/2022 5:17 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>>> On 9/10/2022 2:48 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I haven't seen much commentary on the Ukrainian war from the
>>>>>>>>> "Russian victory is inevitable" side here recently. You guys
>>>>>>>>> feeling OK?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> â??Putinâ??s Narrowing Options" by Patrick J. Buchanan   Â
>>>>>>>> https://buchanan.org/blog/putins-narrowing-options-159644
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pat Buchanan isn't a noted military analyst. I would take his
>>>>>>> opinions with a grain ... never mind, I'd never take his opinion
>>>>>>> on anything, period.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nukes are like hand grenades, you don't have to be precise.Â
>>>>>I'll take
>>>>>> Pat's opinion any day.  At the end of the day, it is an
>>>>>opinion like any
>>>>>> one elses.  And it is a fact that Putin is sitting in isolation
>>>>>> with 24,000 ??? nukes under his control.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "A desperate Vladimir Putin is a dangerous Vladimir Putin, and
>>>>>there are
>>>>>> signs Putinâ??s situation in Ukraine may be becoming desperate."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "The longer this war goes on, and the sooner the Russian bleeding
>>>>>> becomes intolerable to Putin, the more likely it is that he will
>>>>>> escalate, rather than capitulate and accept defeat and humiliation
>>>>>> for his country and himself, leading to his removal from power."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Again, a desperate Putin is a dangerous Putin."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lynn
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>So because of that, we should have--what, turned our weapons on "the"
>>>>>Ukraine ourselves and made it clear that because Putin's demand is
>>>>>that the Ukraine either be a Russian ally or a Russian oblast, that
>>>>>it indeed needs to suck it up for the rest of the world?
>>>>>
>>>>As a compromise, could the US not simply cede its republicans to
>>>>Russia?
>>>
>>> All of them?
>>>
>>> Or just the semi-fascist ultra-MAGA ones?
>>>
>>> I mean, they are basically Fans of Putin (through Trump) anyway.
>>
>>Can we give the authoritarian neo-puritan left to china instead?
>
> Absolutely!
>
> I'm sure Bernie and his friends would be delighted!

It does seem like the country would be a nicer place if the nuts on both
sides would leave or just shut up. But in the long run it would not make
any difference. The powers that be would just groom up another batch of
them since they are so useful.

On Tuesday, September 20, 2022 at 2:13:03 PM UTC-6, Alan wrote:

> On 2022-09-20 12:58, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:

> > And Biden just accused anyone who disagrees with his puppeteers'
> > opiinions of treason.

> Really?
>
> Then let's see the quote.

Maybe he is thinking of the one where he has been roundly criticized
for being soft on the Republicans by only calling them "semi" fascist?

John Savard

On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 2:23:31 PM UTC-6, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> Don't stand next to the guy throwing fecal matter at an armed man.

I'm sorry, who is it again who is gratuitously and recklessly attacking Russia?

As I recall, Ukraine is *fighting for its survival* after Russia chose to invade it.

While you _are_ correct in noting that support for Ukraine is not without risk -
and not just the United States, but also its allies, including Canada, are supplying
Ukraine with arms for use against Russian forces...

I mean, it really boils down to: are Ukrainians people, or are only Americans
people who have the right to be free?

Even in this age of nuclear weapons, as the Cold War demonstrated, aggression
needs to be met with firm resolve and not appeasement.

John Savard

On Tuesday, September 20, 2022 at 7:44:14 AM UTC-6, Scott Lurndal wrote:

> Considering that the majority of asylum seekers _don't_ come from
> Mexico, I'm not sure what your point is...

Refugees originating from Guatemala have tended to approach the
United States *through* Mexico.

John Savard

On 9/20/2022 7:48 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 2:23:31 PM UTC-6, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>
>> Don't stand next to the guy throwing fecal matter at an armed man.
>
> I'm sorry, who is it again who is gratuitously and recklessly attacking Russia?
>
> As I recall, Ukraine is *fighting for its survival* after Russia chose to invade it.
>
> While you _are_ correct in noting that support for Ukraine is not without risk -
> and not just the United States, but also its allies, including Canada, are supplying
> Ukraine with arms for use against Russian forces...
>
> I mean, it really boils down to: are Ukrainians people, or are only Americans
> people who have the right to be free?
>
> Even in this age of nuclear weapons, as the Cold War demonstrated, aggression
> needs to be met with firm resolve and not appeasement.
>
> John Savard

But, the Ukraine has no known nuclear weapons. Russia has a lot of
them. Including the nuclear weapons Ukraine turned over to Russia in
the not too distant past.

If I was Ukraine, I would not advance my troops across the border.

Lynn

On 9/20/2022 6:21 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 9/20/2022 7:48 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
>> On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 2:23:31 PM UTC-6, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>> Don't stand next to the guy throwing fecal matter at an armed man.
>>
>> I'm sorry, who is it again who is gratuitously and recklessly
>> attacking Russia?
>>
>> As I recall, Ukraine is *fighting for its survival* after Russia chose
>> to invade it.
>>
>> While you _are_ correct in noting that support for Ukraine is not
>> without risk -
>> and not just the United States, but also its allies, including Canada,
>> are supplying
>> Ukraine with arms for use against Russian forces...
>>
>> I mean, it really boils down to: are Ukrainians people, or are only
>> Americans
>> people who have the right to be free?
>>
>> Even in this age of nuclear weapons, as the Cold War demonstrated,
>> aggression
>> needs to be met with firm resolve and not appeasement.
>>
>> John Savard
>
> But, the Ukraine has no known nuclear weapons.  Russia has a lot of
> them.  Including the nuclear weapons Ukraine turned over to Russia in
> the not too distant past.
>
> If I was Ukraine, I would not advance my troops across the border.
>
Which border? There are parts of Ukraine that have been occupied for
almost a decade.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

In article <7e3ae9db-ca47-451b-aeed-3b56962670ban@googlegroups.com>,
Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>While you _are_ correct in noting that support for Ukraine is not without risk -
>and not just the United States, but also its allies, including Canada,
>are supplying
>Ukraine with arms for use against Russian forces...

(Hal Heydt)
Don't forget that the Russian forces are also "supplying"
equipment to Ukraine with arms for use against Russian forces.

The recent "regrouping" left (according to one report) some 35
tanks, 40 APCs and at least one ammo dump behind and Ukraine is
putting at least some of the tanks back in service for their own
forces. One presumes with new paint jobs to reduce the chances
of fraticidal attacks.

On Tuesday, September 20, 2022 at 7:21:16 PM UTC-6, Lynn McGuire wrote:

> But, the Ukraine has no known nuclear weapons. Russia has a lot of
> them. Including the nuclear weapons Ukraine turned over to Russia in
> the not too distant past.
>
> If I was Ukraine, I would not advance my troops across the border.

The Ukraine has no intention of doing so (unless you count Donetsk,
Luhansk, and the Crimea as parts of Russia) as that would immediately
end any aid they recieve from Western countries.
I can assure you that the governments of the Free World, even if they
may be courageous and bold in this instance, are not crazy.
If regime change happens to Russia, it will have to come from within
Russia itself.

John Savard

On Tuesday, September 20, 2022 at 7:56:31 PM UTC-6, Hal Heydt wrote:
> In article <7e3ae9db-ca47-451b...@googlegroups.com>,
> Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

> >While you _are_ correct in noting that support for Ukraine is not without risk -
> >and not just the United States, but also its allies, including Canada,
> >are supplying
> >Ukraine with arms for use against Russian forces...

> Don't forget that the Russian forces are also "supplying"
> equipment to Ukraine with arms for use against Russian forces.
>
> The recent "regrouping" left (according to one report) some 35
> tanks, 40 APCs and at least one ammo dump behind and Ukraine is
> putting at least some of the tanks back in service for their own
> forces. One presumes with new paint jobs to reduce the chances
> of fraticidal attacks.

I haven't _forgotten_ that, but I forbore to mention it in the post you
quote, as it did not seem in any way relevant to the issue I was raising.
If I were able to attempt to put the Cosmic All into words, the result
would exceed the carrying capacity of the Internet; but neither my
knowledge nor my fingers are equal to such a task.

John Savard

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>On 9/20/2022 7:48 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
>
>But, the Ukraine has no known nuclear weapons. Russia has a lot of
>them. Including the nuclear weapons Ukraine turned over to Russia in
>the not too distant past.

In return for a promise that Russia would not attack them.