On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:13:38 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:09:39 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:07:06 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 9:57:32 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 9:32:07 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 4:35:51 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 1:10:44 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 9:24:48 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:43:51 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:39:44 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:35:30 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:13:20 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:03:28 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:49:11 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:30:18 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:59:43 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 11:59:31 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 6:22:04 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> On 2022-11-10 1:09 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The heights by great men reached and kept
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were not attained by sudden flight,
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> But they, while their companions slept,
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were toiling upward in the night.."
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> Looks like a Longfellow poem I haven't read, and one worth reading.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> I'll go look for it, but I'd ask you to give me a link next time.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> That's not a "GL" either, just a suggestion.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > It was a verse that struck me and has stayed with me for many decades
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > (since the 1980s). Yes, I should have posted a link to the entire
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > poem.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > No biggie. I was able to find one on a reputable site easily enough. I
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > can post it in here:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44636/the-ladder-of-st-augustine
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> Good poem.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> Any thoughts on why Edgar Allan Poe has such a grudge against Longfellow?
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > Poe considered Longfellow an imitator of other poets’ styles.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Thanks, Corey, so it was nothing personal, like jealousy..
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Good to know.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > It wasn’t petty, like jealousy, but it was very personal.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Thanks, I'll read up on it some more.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > :)
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Poe envied Longfellow’s professional success.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > No. He hated the New England school of literature, and everyone connected with it, and especially with Boston. Longfellow was the New England school's poster boy. Naturally, Poe detested him.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > Enjoy:
> > > > > > > >> > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > > > > http://americanliteraryblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/poe-and-longfellow-favorably-known-to.html
> > > > > > > >> > > > As a blog entry, it gives a brief introduction to the topic, and presents it in an interesting manner. But it doesn't really shed any new light on Poe's hatred of the Frogpondians.
> > > > > > > >> > > Of course not. Why would there be? Poe was an eloquent writer, not a hater,
> > > > > > > >> > > but discussing Poe’s work with you is like discussing Kerouac’s with Dockery.
> > > > > > > >> > I don't remember ever discussing Jack Kerouac with you.
> > > > > > > >> I didn’t say we did. I was using you as a simile.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You and Michael were similarly seduced by the works of well known alcoholic writers,
> > > > > > > > and it has been well established by you both that you’ve each had issues with alcohol.
> > > > > > > Okay, interesting observation, Corey.
> > > > > > You and Michael are similarly impassioned in defense of your influences,
> > > > > > which puts me at a disadvantage in our discussions since I don’t share it,
> > > > > > which is the point I was trying to make previously, that it is as difficult for
> > > > > > me to discuss Poe with Michael as it is for me to discuss Kerouac with you.
> > > > > Lately, the same problem in discussing Edgar Allan Poe comes up when discussing or reading about Jerry Lee Lewis.
> > > > >
> > > > > The fact always comes up that, like Poe, Lewis married his thirteen year old cousin.
> > > > Everyone knows that Poe married his cousin, Donkey. The only "problem" in discussing it, is in your trollish attempt to bait me into a flame war over it.
> > > Not really, as with every article on Jerry Lee Lewis (look it up) it can't be avoided that Edgar Allan Poe, legally or not, was a pedophile.
> > >
> > > Why should you flame anyone over the fact?
> > > > Poe and his cousin were happily married, and he remained a devoted husband to her till her untimely death.
> > > >
> > > > Poe, by his own admission, did not consummate their marriage until a year after they were wed, at which time he felt her to be sufficiently mature.
> > > >
> > > > Poe looked for spiritual relationships with women (as opposed to sexual ones), as he believed that passion tends to "degrade, rather than elevate, the Soul." In his young bride, Poe found the purity and innocence of one unspoiled by the mundane world. He describes his relationship with her in "Eleonora," wherein the change from platonic to romantic love is depicted in symbolic terms of blossoming love, without an sordid or lustful overtones.
> > > >
> > > > His relationship was a world or two away from your adolescent dalliances with the local kiddies, and from Pick's (hopefully made up) tales of 14-year old girls he seduced and abandoned.
> > It’s simply not true. You’re intentionally mischaracterizing the known facts.
> What's not true? That Poe was a devoted husband, or that 13-year old Will banged local pre-pubescents?

On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:18:06 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:12:03 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:04:51 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 9:57:32 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 9:32:07 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 4:35:51 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 1:10:44 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 9:24:48 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:43:51 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:39:44 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:35:30 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:13:20 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:03:28 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:49:11 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:30:18 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:59:43 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 11:59:31 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 6:22:04 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> On 2022-11-10 1:09 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The heights by great men reached and kept
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were not attained by sudden flight,
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> But they, while their companions slept,
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were toiling upward in the night.."
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> Looks like a Longfellow poem I haven't read, and one worth reading.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> I'll go look for it, but I'd ask you to give me a link next time.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> That's not a "GL" either, just a suggestion.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > It was a verse that struck me and has stayed with me for many decades
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > (since the 1980s). Yes, I should have posted a link to the entire
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > poem.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > No biggie. I was able to find one on a reputable site easily enough. I
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > can post it in here:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44636/the-ladder-of-st-augustine
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> Good poem.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> Any thoughts on why Edgar Allan Poe has such a grudge against Longfellow?
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > Poe considered Longfellow an imitator of other poets’ styles.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Thanks, Corey, so it was nothing personal, like jealousy..
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Good to know.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > It wasn’t petty, like jealousy, but it was very personal.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Thanks, I'll read up on it some more.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > :)
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Poe envied Longfellow’s professional success.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > No. He hated the New England school of literature, and everyone connected with it, and especially with Boston. Longfellow was the New England school's poster boy. Naturally, Poe detested him.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > Enjoy:
> > > > > > > >> > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > > > > http://americanliteraryblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/poe-and-longfellow-favorably-known-to.html
> > > > > > > >> > > > As a blog entry, it gives a brief introduction to the topic, and presents it in an interesting manner. But it doesn't really shed any new light on Poe's hatred of the Frogpondians.
> > > > > > > >> > > Of course not. Why would there be? Poe was an eloquent writer, not a hater,
> > > > > > > >> > > but discussing Poe’s work with you is like discussing Kerouac’s with Dockery.
> > > > > > > >> > I don't remember ever discussing Jack Kerouac with you.
> > > > > > > >> I didn’t say we did. I was using you as a simile.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You and Michael were similarly seduced by the works of well known alcoholic writers,
> > > > > > > > and it has been well established by you both that you’ve each had issues with alcohol.
> > > > > > > Okay, interesting observation, Corey.
> > > > > > You and Michael are similarly impassioned in defense of your influences,
> > > > > > which puts me at a disadvantage in our discussions since I don’t share it,
> > > > > > which is the point I was trying to make previously, that it is as difficult for
> > > > > > me to discuss Poe with Michael as it is for me to discuss Kerouac with you.
> > > > > Lately, the same problem in discussing Edgar Allan Poe comes up when discussing or reading about Jerry Lee Lewis.
> > > > >
> > > > > The fact always comes up that, like Poe, Lewis married his thirteen year old cousin.
> > > > Everyone knows that Poe married his cousin, Donkey. The only "problem" in discussing it, is in your trollish attempt to bait me into a flame war over it.
> > > >
> > > > Poe and his cousin were happily married, and he remained a devoted husband to her till her untimely death.
> > > >
> > > > Poe, by his own admission, did not consummate their marriage until a year after they were wed, at which time he felt her to be sufficiently mature.
> > > >
> > > > Poe looked for spiritual relationships with women (as opposed to sexual ones), as he believed that passion tends to "degrade, rather than elevate, the Soul." In his young bride, Poe found the purity and innocence of one unspoiled by the mundane world. He describes his relationship with her in "Eleonora," wherein the change from platonic to romantic love is depicted in symbolic terms of blossoming love, without an sordid or lustful overtones.
> > > >
> > > > His relationship was a world or two away from your adolescent dalliances with the local kiddies, and from Pick's (hopefully made up) tales of 14-year old girls he seduced and abandoned.
> > > The romantic parallels between Poe, Lewis, and their love for their respective wives, is valid.
> > I haven't a problem with comparing Poe to JLL, although I don't know what the latter's views on love were. I take issue with the Donkey's claim that their marriage was an act of pedophilia/statutory rape.
> >
> > More specifically, I have a problem with amoral scumbags (like Donkey) claiming moral superiority to their betters.
> Again, I agree with you

On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:20:04 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:13:38 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:09:39 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:07:06 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 9:57:32 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 9:32:07 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 4:35:51 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 1:10:44 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 9:24:48 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:43:51 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:39:44 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:35:30 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:13:20 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:03:28 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:49:11 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:30:18 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:59:43 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 11:59:31 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 6:22:04 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> On 2022-11-10 1:09 p.m., Mack A.. Damia wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The heights by great men reached and kept
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were not attained by sudden flight,
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> But they, while their companions slept,
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were toiling upward in the night."
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> Looks like a Longfellow poem I haven't read, and one worth reading.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> I'll go look for it, but I'd ask you to give me a link next time.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> That's not a "GL" either, just a suggestion.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > It was a verse that struck me and has stayed with me for many decades
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > (since the 1980s). Yes, I should have posted a link to the entire
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > poem.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > No biggie. I was able to find one on a reputable site easily enough. I
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > can post it in here:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44636/the-ladder-of-st-augustine
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> Good poem.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> Any thoughts on why Edgar Allan Poe has such a grudge against Longfellow?
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > Poe considered Longfellow an imitator of other poets’ styles.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Thanks, Corey, so it was nothing personal, like jealousy..
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Good to know.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > It wasn’t petty, like jealousy, but it was very personal.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Thanks, I'll read up on it some more.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > :)
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Poe envied Longfellow’s professional success.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > No. He hated the New England school of literature, and everyone connected with it, and especially with Boston. Longfellow was the New England school's poster boy. Naturally, Poe detested him.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > Enjoy:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > http://americanliteraryblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/poe-and-longfellow-favorably-known-to.html
> > > > > > > > >> > > > As a blog entry, it gives a brief introduction to the topic, and presents it in an interesting manner. But it doesn't really shed any new light on Poe's hatred of the Frogpondians.
> > > > > > > > >> > > Of course not. Why would there be? Poe was an eloquent writer, not a hater,
> > > > > > > > >> > > but discussing Poe’s work with you is like discussing Kerouac’s with Dockery.
> > > > > > > > >> > I don't remember ever discussing Jack Kerouac with you..
> > > > > > > > >> I didn’t say we did. I was using you as a simile..
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You and Michael were similarly seduced by the works of well known alcoholic writers,
> > > > > > > > > and it has been well established by you both that you’ve each had issues with alcohol.
> > > > > > > > Okay, interesting observation, Corey.
> > > > > > > You and Michael are similarly impassioned in defense of your influences,
> > > > > > > which puts me at a disadvantage in our discussions since I don’t share it,
> > > > > > > which is the point I was trying to make previously, that it is as difficult for
> > > > > > > me to discuss Poe with Michael as it is for me to discuss Kerouac with you.
> > > > > > Lately, the same problem in discussing Edgar Allan Poe comes up when discussing or reading about Jerry Lee Lewis.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The fact always comes up that, like Poe, Lewis married his thirteen year old cousin.
> > > > > Everyone knows that Poe married his cousin, Donkey. The only "problem" in discussing it, is in your trollish attempt to bait me into a flame war over it.
> > > > Not really, as with every article on Jerry Lee Lewis (look it up) it can't be avoided that Edgar Allan Poe, legally or not, was a pedophile.
> > > >
> > > > Why should you flame anyone over the fact?
> > > > > Poe and his cousin were happily married, and he remained a devoted husband to her till her untimely death.
> > > > >
> > > > > Poe, by his own admission, did not consummate their marriage until a year after they were wed, at which time he felt her to be sufficiently mature.
> > > > >
> > > > > Poe looked for spiritual relationships with women (as opposed to sexual ones), as he believed that passion tends to "degrade, rather than elevate, the Soul." In his young bride, Poe found the purity and innocence of one unspoiled by the mundane world. He describes his relationship with her in "Eleonora," wherein the change from platonic to romantic love is depicted in symbolic terms of blossoming love, without an sordid or lustful overtones.
> > > > >
> > > > > His relationship was a world or two away from your adolescent dalliances with the local kiddies, and from Pick's (hopefully made up) tales of 14-year old girls he seduced and abandoned.
> > > It’s simply not true. You’re intentionally mischaracterizing the known facts.
> > What's not true? That Poe was a devoted husband, or that 13-year old Will banged local pre-pubescents?
> Neither Poe nor Lewis were pedophiles.

On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:19:00 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:13:38 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:09:39 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:07:06 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 9:57:32 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 9:32:07 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 4:35:51 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 1:10:44 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 9:24:48 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:43:51 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:39:44 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:35:30 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:13:20 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:03:28 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:49:11 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:30:18 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:59:43 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 11:59:31 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 6:22:04 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> On 2022-11-10 1:09 p.m., Mack A.. Damia wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The heights by great men reached and kept
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were not attained by sudden flight,
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> But they, while their companions slept,
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were toiling upward in the night."
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> Looks like a Longfellow poem I haven't read, and one worth reading.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> I'll go look for it, but I'd ask you to give me a link next time.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> That's not a "GL" either, just a suggestion.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > It was a verse that struck me and has stayed with me for many decades
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > (since the 1980s). Yes, I should have posted a link to the entire
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > poem.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > No biggie. I was able to find one on a reputable site easily enough. I
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > can post it in here:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44636/the-ladder-of-st-augustine
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> Good poem.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> Any thoughts on why Edgar Allan Poe has such a grudge against Longfellow?
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > Poe considered Longfellow an imitator of other poets’ styles.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Thanks, Corey, so it was nothing personal, like jealousy..
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Good to know.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > It wasn’t petty, like jealousy, but it was very personal.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Thanks, I'll read up on it some more.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > :)
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Poe envied Longfellow’s professional success.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > No. He hated the New England school of literature, and everyone connected with it, and especially with Boston. Longfellow was the New England school's poster boy. Naturally, Poe detested him.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > Enjoy:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > http://americanliteraryblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/poe-and-longfellow-favorably-known-to.html
> > > > > > > > >> > > > As a blog entry, it gives a brief introduction to the topic, and presents it in an interesting manner. But it doesn't really shed any new light on Poe's hatred of the Frogpondians.
> > > > > > > > >> > > Of course not. Why would there be? Poe was an eloquent writer, not a hater,
> > > > > > > > >> > > but discussing Poe’s work with you is like discussing Kerouac’s with Dockery.
> > > > > > > > >> > I don't remember ever discussing Jack Kerouac with you..
> > > > > > > > >> I didn’t say we did. I was using you as a simile..
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You and Michael were similarly seduced by the works of well known alcoholic writers,
> > > > > > > > > and it has been well established by you both that you’ve each had issues with alcohol.
> > > > > > > > Okay, interesting observation, Corey.
> > > > > > > You and Michael are similarly impassioned in defense of your influences,
> > > > > > > which puts me at a disadvantage in our discussions since I don’t share it,
> > > > > > > which is the point I was trying to make previously, that it is as difficult for
> > > > > > > me to discuss Poe with Michael as it is for me to discuss Kerouac with you.
> > > > > > Lately, the same problem in discussing Edgar Allan Poe comes up when discussing or reading about Jerry Lee Lewis.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The fact always comes up that, like Poe, Lewis married his thirteen year old cousin.
> > > > > Everyone knows that Poe married his cousin, Donkey. The only "problem" in discussing it, is in your trollish attempt to bait me into a flame war over it.
> > > > Not really, as with every article on Jerry Lee Lewis (look it up) it can't be avoided that Edgar Allan Poe, legally or not, was a pedophile.
> > > >
> > > > Why should you flame anyone over the fact?
> > > > > Poe and his cousin were happily married, and he remained a devoted husband to her till her untimely death.
> > > > >
> > > > > Poe, by his own admission, did not consummate their marriage until a year after they were wed, at which time he felt her to be sufficiently mature.
> > > > >
> > > > > Poe looked for spiritual relationships with women (as opposed to sexual ones), as he believed that passion tends to "degrade, rather than elevate, the Soul." In his young bride, Poe found the purity and innocence of one unspoiled by the mundane world. He describes his relationship with her in "Eleonora," wherein the change from platonic to romantic love is depicted in symbolic terms of blossoming love, without an sordid or lustful overtones.
> > > > >
> > > > > His relationship was a world or two away from your adolescent dalliances with the local kiddies, and from Pick's (hopefully made up) tales of 14-year old girls he seduced and abandoned.
> > > It’s simply not true. You’re intentionally mischaracterizing the known facts.
> > What's not true? That Poe was a devoted husband,
> Poe was a devoted husband of nearly thirty years old married to his thirteen year old cousin.
>
> Got it.
> > or that 13-year old Will banged local pre-pubescents?

On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:16:29 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:12:03 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:04:51 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 9:57:32 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 9:32:07 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 4:35:51 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 1:10:44 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 9:24:48 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:43:51 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:39:44 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:35:30 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:13:20 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:03:28 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:49:11 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:30:18 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:59:43 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 11:59:31 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 6:22:04 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> On 2022-11-10 1:09 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The heights by great men reached and kept
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were not attained by sudden flight,
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> But they, while their companions slept,
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were toiling upward in the night.."
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> Looks like a Longfellow poem I haven't read, and one worth reading.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> I'll go look for it, but I'd ask you to give me a link next time.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> That's not a "GL" either, just a suggestion.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > It was a verse that struck me and has stayed with me for many decades
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > (since the 1980s). Yes, I should have posted a link to the entire
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > poem.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > No biggie. I was able to find one on a reputable site easily enough. I
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > can post it in here:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44636/the-ladder-of-st-augustine
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> Good poem.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> Any thoughts on why Edgar Allan Poe has such a grudge against Longfellow?
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > Poe considered Longfellow an imitator of other poets’ styles.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Thanks, Corey, so it was nothing personal, like jealousy..
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Good to know.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > It wasn’t petty, like jealousy, but it was very personal.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Thanks, I'll read up on it some more.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > :)
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Poe envied Longfellow’s professional success.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > No. He hated the New England school of literature, and everyone connected with it, and especially with Boston. Longfellow was the New England school's poster boy. Naturally, Poe detested him.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > Enjoy:
> > > > > > > >> > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > > > > http://americanliteraryblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/poe-and-longfellow-favorably-known-to.html
> > > > > > > >> > > > As a blog entry, it gives a brief introduction to the topic, and presents it in an interesting manner. But it doesn't really shed any new light on Poe's hatred of the Frogpondians.
> > > > > > > >> > > Of course not. Why would there be? Poe was an eloquent writer, not a hater,
> > > > > > > >> > > but discussing Poe’s work with you is like discussing Kerouac’s with Dockery.
> > > > > > > >> > I don't remember ever discussing Jack Kerouac with you.
> > > > > > > >> I didn’t say we did. I was using you as a simile.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You and Michael were similarly seduced by the works of well known alcoholic writers,
> > > > > > > > and it has been well established by you both that you’ve each had issues with alcohol.
> > > > > > > Okay, interesting observation, Corey.
> > > > > > You and Michael are similarly impassioned in defense of your influences,
> > > > > > which puts me at a disadvantage in our discussions since I don’t share it,
> > > > > > which is the point I was trying to make previously, that it is as difficult for
> > > > > > me to discuss Poe with Michael as it is for me to discuss Kerouac with you.
> > > > > Lately, the same problem in discussing Edgar Allan Poe comes up when discussing or reading about Jerry Lee Lewis.
> > > > >
> > > > > The fact always comes up that, like Poe, Lewis married his thirteen year old cousin.
> > > > Everyone knows that Poe married his cousin, Donkey. The only "problem" in discussing it, is in your trollish attempt to bait me into a flame war over it.
> > > >
> > > > Poe and his cousin were happily married, and he remained a devoted husband to her till her untimely death.
> > > >
> > > > Poe, by his own admission, did not consummate their marriage until a year after they were wed, at which time he felt her to be sufficiently mature.
> > > >
> > > > Poe looked for spiritual relationships with women (as opposed to sexual ones), as he believed that passion tends to "degrade, rather than elevate, the Soul." In his young bride, Poe found the purity and innocence of one unspoiled by the mundane world. He describes his relationship with her in "Eleonora," wherein the change from platonic to romantic love is depicted in symbolic terms of blossoming love, without an sordid or lustful overtones.
> > > >
> > > > His relationship was a world or two away from your adolescent dalliances with the local kiddies, and from Pick's (hopefully made up) tales of 14-year old girls he seduced and abandoned.
> > > The romantic parallels between Poe, Lewis, and their love for their respective wives, is valid.
> > I haven't a problem with comparing Poe to JLL, although I don't know what the latter's views on love were. I take issue with the Donkey's claim that their marriage was an act of pedophilia/statutory rape.
> >
> > More specifically, I have a problem with amoral scumbags (like Donkey) claiming moral superiority to their betters.
> I'm claiming nothing.
>
> I simply point out the fact that both Edgar Allan Poe and Jerry Lee Lewis married their 13 year old cousins.
>
> If you're fine with grown men marrying little girls, that's up to you.

On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:21:55 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:18:06 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:12:03 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:04:51 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 9:57:32 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 9:32:07 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 4:35:51 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 1:10:44 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 9:24:48 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:43:51 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:39:44 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:35:30 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:13:20 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:03:28 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:49:11 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:30:18 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:59:43 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 11:59:31 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 6:22:04 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> On 2022-11-10 1:09 p.m., Mack A.. Damia wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The heights by great men reached and kept
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were not attained by sudden flight,
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> But they, while their companions slept,
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were toiling upward in the night."
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> Looks like a Longfellow poem I haven't read, and one worth reading.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> I'll go look for it, but I'd ask you to give me a link next time.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> That's not a "GL" either, just a suggestion.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > It was a verse that struck me and has stayed with me for many decades
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > (since the 1980s). Yes, I should have posted a link to the entire
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > poem.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > No biggie. I was able to find one on a reputable site easily enough. I
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > can post it in here:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44636/the-ladder-of-st-augustine
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> Good poem.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> Any thoughts on why Edgar Allan Poe has such a grudge against Longfellow?
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > Poe considered Longfellow an imitator of other poets’ styles.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Thanks, Corey, so it was nothing personal, like jealousy..
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Good to know.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > It wasn’t petty, like jealousy, but it was very personal.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Thanks, I'll read up on it some more.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > :)
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Poe envied Longfellow’s professional success.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > No. He hated the New England school of literature, and everyone connected with it, and especially with Boston. Longfellow was the New England school's poster boy. Naturally, Poe detested him.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > Enjoy:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > http://americanliteraryblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/poe-and-longfellow-favorably-known-to.html
> > > > > > > > >> > > > As a blog entry, it gives a brief introduction to the topic, and presents it in an interesting manner. But it doesn't really shed any new light on Poe's hatred of the Frogpondians.
> > > > > > > > >> > > Of course not. Why would there be? Poe was an eloquent writer, not a hater,
> > > > > > > > >> > > but discussing Poe’s work with you is like discussing Kerouac’s with Dockery.
> > > > > > > > >> > I don't remember ever discussing Jack Kerouac with you..
> > > > > > > > >> I didn’t say we did. I was using you as a simile..
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You and Michael were similarly seduced by the works of well known alcoholic writers,
> > > > > > > > > and it has been well established by you both that you’ve each had issues with alcohol.
> > > > > > > > Okay, interesting observation, Corey.
> > > > > > > You and Michael are similarly impassioned in defense of your influences,
> > > > > > > which puts me at a disadvantage in our discussions since I don’t share it,
> > > > > > > which is the point I was trying to make previously, that it is as difficult for
> > > > > > > me to discuss Poe with Michael as it is for me to discuss Kerouac with you.
> > > > > > Lately, the same problem in discussing Edgar Allan Poe comes up when discussing or reading about Jerry Lee Lewis.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The fact always comes up that, like Poe, Lewis married his thirteen year old cousin.
> > > > > Everyone knows that Poe married his cousin, Donkey. The only "problem" in discussing it, is in your trollish attempt to bait me into a flame war over it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Poe and his cousin were happily married, and he remained a devoted husband to her till her untimely death.
> > > > >
> > > > > Poe, by his own admission, did not consummate their marriage until a year after they were wed, at which time he felt her to be sufficiently mature.
> > > > >
> > > > > Poe looked for spiritual relationships with women (as opposed to sexual ones), as he believed that passion tends to "degrade, rather than elevate, the Soul." In his young bride, Poe found the purity and innocence of one unspoiled by the mundane world. He describes his relationship with her in "Eleonora," wherein the change from platonic to romantic love is depicted in symbolic terms of blossoming love, without an sordid or lustful overtones.
> > > > >
> > > > > His relationship was a world or two away from your adolescent dalliances with the local kiddies, and from Pick's (hopefully made up) tales of 14-year old girls he seduced and abandoned.
> > > > The romantic parallels between Poe, Lewis, and their love for their respective wives, is valid.
> > > I haven't a problem with comparing Poe to JLL, although I don't know what the latter's views on love were. I take issue with the Donkey's claim that their marriage was an act of pedophilia/statutory rape.
> > >
> > > More specifically, I have a problem with amoral scumbags (like Donkey) claiming moral superiority to their betters.
> > Again, I agree with you
> You agree with Pendragon that it was fine for Jerry Lee Lewis and Edgar Allan Poe to marry their thirteen year old cousins?
>
> Got it.
> > with regard to what Donkeys do do. Donkeys do do a lot.

Spam-I-Am wrote:

> On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:21:55 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:18:06 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
>> > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:12:03 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:04:51 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
>> > > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 9:57:32 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > > > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 9:32:07 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> > > > > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 4:35:51 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
>> > > > > > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 1:10:44 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> > > > > > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 9:24:48 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
>> > > > > > > > >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:43:51 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> > > > > > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:39:44 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
>> > > > > > > > >> > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:35:30 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:13:20 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:03:28 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:49:11 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:30:18 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:59:43 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Spam-I-Am wrote:
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 11:59:31 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 6:22:04 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> On 2022-11-10 1:09 p.m., Mack A.. Damia wrote:
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The heights by great men reached and kept
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were not attained by sudden flight,
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> But they, while their companions slept,
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were toiling upward in the night."
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> Looks like a Longfellow poem I haven't read, and one worth reading.
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> I'll go look for it, but I'd ask you to give me a link next time.
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> That's not a "GL" either, just a suggestion.
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > It was a verse that struck me and has stayed with me for many decades
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > (since the 1980s). Yes, I should have posted a link to the entire
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > poem.
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> >
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > No biggie. I was able to find one on a reputable site easily enough. I
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > can post it in here:
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44636/the-ladder-of-st-augustine
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> Good poem.
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >>
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> Any thoughts on why Edgar Allan Poe has such a grudge against Longfellow?
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > Poe considered Longfellow an imitator of other poets’ styles.
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Thanks, Corey, so it was nothing personal, like jealousy..
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Good to know.
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > It wasn’t petty, like jealousy, but it was very personal.
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Thanks, I'll read up on it some more.
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > :)
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Poe envied Longfellow’s professional success.
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > No. He hated the New England school of literature, and everyone connected with it, and especially with Boston. Longfellow was the New England school's poster boy. Naturally, Poe detested him.
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > Enjoy:
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > >
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > http://americanliteraryblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/poe-and-longfellow-favorably-known-to.html
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > As a blog entry, it gives a brief introduction to the topic, and presents it in an interesting manner. But it doesn't really shed any new light on Poe's hatred of the Frogpondians.
>> > > > > > > > >> > > Of course not. Why would there be? Poe was an eloquent writer, not a hater,
>> > > > > > > > >> > > but discussing Poe’s work with you is like discussing Kerouac’s with Dockery.
>> > > > > > > > >> > I don't remember ever discussing Jack Kerouac with you..
>> > > > > > > > >> I didn’t say we did. I was using you as a simile..
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > You and Michael were similarly seduced by the works of well known alcoholic writers,
>> > > > > > > > > and it has been well established by you both that you’ve each had issues with alcohol.
>> > > > > > > > Okay, interesting observation, Corey.
>> > > > > > > You and Michael are similarly impassioned in defense of your influences,
>> > > > > > > which puts me at a disadvantage in our discussions since I don’t share it,
>> > > > > > > which is the point I was trying to make previously, that it is as difficult for
>> > > > > > > me to discuss Poe with Michael as it is for me to discuss Kerouac with you.
>> > > > > > Lately, the same problem in discussing Edgar Allan Poe comes up when discussing or reading about Jerry Lee Lewis.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > The fact always comes up that, like Poe, Lewis married his thirteen year old cousin.
>> > > > > Everyone knows that Poe married his cousin, Donkey. The only "problem" in discussing it, is in your trollish attempt to bait me into a flame war over it.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Poe and his cousin were happily married, and he remained a devoted husband to her till her untimely death.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Poe, by his own admission, did not consummate their marriage until a year after they were wed, at which time he felt her to be sufficiently mature.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Poe looked for spiritual relationships with women (as opposed to sexual ones), as he believed that passion tends to "degrade, rather than elevate, the Soul." In his young bride, Poe found the purity and innocence of one unspoiled by the mundane world. He describes his relationship with her in "Eleonora," wherein the change from platonic to romantic love is depicted in symbolic terms of blossoming love, without an sordid or lustful overtones.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > His relationship was a world or two away from your adolescent dalliances with the local kiddies, and from Pick's (hopefully made up) tales of 14-year old girls he seduced and abandoned.
>> > > > The romantic parallels between Poe, Lewis, and their love for their respective wives, is valid.
>> > > I haven't a problem with comparing Poe to JLL, although I don't know what the latter's views on love were. I take issue with the Donkey's claim that their marriage was an act of pedophilia/statutory rape.
>> > >
>> > > More specifically, I have a problem with amoral scumbags (like Donkey) claiming moral superiority to their betters.
>> > Again, I agree with you
>> You agree with Pendragon that it was fine for Jerry Lee Lewis and Edgar Allan Poe to marry their thirteen year old cousins?
>>
>> Got it.
>> > with regard to what Donkeys do do. Donkeys do do a lot.

On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:39:59 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> Spam-I-Am wrote:
>
> > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:21:55 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:18:06 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> >> > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:12:03 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:04:51 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> >> > > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 9:57:32 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef....@gmail.com wrote:
> >> > > > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 9:32:07 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> > > > > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 4:35:51 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> >> > > > > > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 1:10:44 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 9:24:48 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:43:51 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:39:44 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:35:30 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:13:20 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:03:28 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:49:11 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:30:18 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:59:43 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Spam-I-Am wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 11:59:31 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 6:22:04 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> On 2022-11-10 1:09 p.m., Mack A.. Damia wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The heights by great men reached and kept
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were not attained by sudden flight,
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> But they, while their companions slept,
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were toiling upward in the night."
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> Looks like a Longfellow poem I haven't read, and one worth reading.
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> I'll go look for it, but I'd ask you to give me a link next time.
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> That's not a "GL" either, just a suggestion.
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > It was a verse that struck me and has stayed with me for many decades
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > (since the 1980s). Yes, I should have posted a link to the entire
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > poem.
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> >
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > No biggie. I was able to find one on a reputable site easily enough. I
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > can post it in here:
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44636/the-ladder-of-st-augustine
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> Good poem.
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >>
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> Any thoughts on why Edgar Allan Poe has such a grudge against Longfellow?
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > Poe considered Longfellow an imitator of other poets’ styles.
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Thanks, Corey, so it was nothing personal, like jealousy..
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Good to know.
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > It wasn’t petty, like jealousy, but it was very personal.
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Thanks, I'll read up on it some more.
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > :)
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Poe envied Longfellow’s professional success.
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > No. He hated the New England school of literature, and everyone connected with it, and especially with Boston. Longfellow was the New England school's poster boy. Naturally, Poe detested him.
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > Enjoy:
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > http://americanliteraryblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/poe-and-longfellow-favorably-known-to.html
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > As a blog entry, it gives a brief introduction to the topic, and presents it in an interesting manner. But it doesn't really shed any new light on Poe's hatred of the Frogpondians.
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > Of course not. Why would there be? Poe was an eloquent writer, not a hater,
> >> > > > > > > > >> > > but discussing Poe’s work with you is like discussing Kerouac’s with Dockery.
> >> > > > > > > > >> > I don't remember ever discussing Jack Kerouac with you..
> >> > > > > > > > >> I didn’t say we did. I was using you as a simile..
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > You and Michael were similarly seduced by the works of well known alcoholic writers,
> >> > > > > > > > > and it has been well established by you both that you’ve each had issues with alcohol.
> >> > > > > > > > Okay, interesting observation, Corey.
> >> > > > > > > You and Michael are similarly impassioned in defense of your influences,
> >> > > > > > > which puts me at a disadvantage in our discussions since I don’t share it,
> >> > > > > > > which is the point I was trying to make previously, that it is as difficult for
> >> > > > > > > me to discuss Poe with Michael as it is for me to discuss Kerouac with you.
> >> > > > > > Lately, the same problem in discussing Edgar Allan Poe comes up when discussing or reading about Jerry Lee Lewis.
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > The fact always comes up that, like Poe, Lewis married his thirteen year old cousin.
> >> > > > > Everyone knows that Poe married his cousin, Donkey. The only "problem" in discussing it, is in your trollish attempt to bait me into a flame war over it.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Poe and his cousin were happily married, and he remained a devoted husband to her till her untimely death.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Poe, by his own admission, did not consummate their marriage until a year after they were wed, at which time he felt her to be sufficiently mature.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Poe looked for spiritual relationships with women (as opposed to sexual ones), as he believed that passion tends to "degrade, rather than elevate, the Soul." In his young bride, Poe found the purity and innocence of one unspoiled by the mundane world. He describes his relationship with her in "Eleonora," wherein the change from platonic to romantic love is depicted in symbolic terms of blossoming love, without an sordid or lustful overtones.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > His relationship was a world or two away from your adolescent dalliances with the local kiddies, and from Pick's (hopefully made up) tales of 14-year old girls he seduced and abandoned.
> >> > > > The romantic parallels between Poe, Lewis, and their love for their respective wives, is valid.
> >> > > I haven't a problem with comparing Poe to JLL, although I don't know what the latter's views on love were. I take issue with the Donkey's claim that their marriage was an act of pedophilia/statutory rape.
> >> > >
> >> > > More specifically, I have a problem with amoral scumbags (like Donkey) claiming moral superiority to their betters.
> >> > Again, I agree with you
> >> You agree with Pendragon that it was fine for Jerry Lee Lewis and Edgar Allan Poe to marry their thirteen year old cousins?
> >>
> >> Got it.
> >> > with regard to what Donkeys do do. Donkeys do do a lot.
>
> > If that’s what you got from the above exchange, I certainly can’t dissuade you,
> > or make you think differently. You understand things at the level you are able.
> Feel free to correct me, if you think I'm mistaken.

On 2022-11-13 2:27 a.m., Michael Pendragon wrote:
> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:23:17 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:21:44 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:17:22 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>>>> On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 4:19:21 PM UTC-5, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 12:32:31 -0800 (PST), Michael Pendragon
>>>>> <michaelmalef...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 1:19:21 PM UTC-5, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 08:59:39 -0800 (PST), Michael Pendragon
>>>>>>> <michaelmalef...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 11:48:08 AM UTC-5, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 10:14:51 -0800 (PST), Michael Pendragon
>>>>>>>>> <michaelmalef...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 1:09:19 PM UTC-5, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
>>>>>>>>>>> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "The heights by great men reached and kept
>>>>>>>>>>> Were not attained by sudden flight,
>>>>>>>>>>> But they, while their companions slept,
>>>>>>>>>>> Were toiling upward in the night."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Mack.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Please see 8) in our Guidelines, below:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> AAPC OFFICIAL GUIDELINES & FAQS
>>>>>>>>> Please feel free to kill file me, but your group is too undisciplined
>>>>>>>>> to have rules. What percentage of the group's posts are flames? This
>>>>>>>>> is why I haven't been here too much. You need to crack down on
>>>>>>>>> trouble makers.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, you are choosing to make yourself one of the troublemakers.
>>>>>>> Then you will miss what I have to offer, won't you?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unfortunately, one cannot miss posts. One can only block them after the fact.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I mentioned to another group that I post what makes me feel good. I
>>>>>>> avoid flaming, and that is to say you can take it or leave it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is a *discussion* group. If you want to post poetry by well known authors, you should do so at rec.arts.poems. That is what that group was created for.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you continue to post such poetry here without comments, you *are* flaming the group -- and shall be treated like a troll for doing so.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your choice.
>>>>> How many posts in this group get 29 replies? Granted, a few of the
>>>>> posts are mine.
>>>>>
>>>>> You will miss the train because you are arguing with the tricket
>>>>> master (for this thread). Open your eyes, ears and most of all your
>>>>> mind.
>>>> Well put.
>>> What's "well put,
>> Mack's post.
>
> Mack's whacked. What's a "tricket" and how does one master it?

If you find a word you don't understand, Michael, try to read it in
context.

In this case, he's using using a metaphor: comparing your overlooking
the poem to argue with him, to missing a train because you were arguing
with the *tricket* master.

Now use context. What do you need to do when you board a train? Why, buy
a "ticket". And from whom do you purchase the ticket? Why from the
"ticket-master."

Had you been able to do that, you would have realised that "tricket" was
just a typo for "ticket." Not being able to read in context, you got
confused and couldn't understand the sentence due to a simple typo,
something you've done repeatedly in the past.

I hope this advice helps you avoid similar goofs in the future.

On 2022-11-12 1:12 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 12:37:41 -0500, "George J. Dance"
> <georgedance04@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-11-10 1:09 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
>>>
>>> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
>>> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
>>>
>>> "The heights by great men reached and kept
>>> Were not attained by sudden flight,
>>> But they, while their companions slept,
>>> Were toiling upward in the night."
>>>
>>
>> Looks like a Longfellow poem I haven't read, and one worth reading.
>>
>> I'll go look for it, but I'd ask you to give me a link next time.
>>
>> That's not a "GL" either, just a suggestion.
>
> It was a verse that struck me and has stayed with me for many decades
> (since the 1980s). Yes, I should have posted a link to the entire
> poem.

Sorry to intervene, Mack, but Michael is not asking you to post links.
In his view, links are bad, as they "lure" people away from the group.

He's been asking (and now demanding) that you post "original commentary"
with every poem or quotation you post.

On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 3:07:11 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> On 2022-11-12 1:12 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 12:37:41 -0500, "George J. Dance"
> > <george...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> >
> >> On 2022-11-10 1:09 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
> >>>
> >>> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> >>> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
> >>>
> >>> "The heights by great men reached and kept
> >>> Were not attained by sudden flight,
> >>> But they, while their companions slept,
> >>> Were toiling upward in the night."
> >>>
> >>
> >> Looks like a Longfellow poem I haven't read, and one worth reading.
> >>
> >> I'll go look for it, but I'd ask you to give me a link next time.
> >>
> >> That's not a "GL" either, just a suggestion.
> >
> > It was a verse that struck me and has stayed with me for many decades
> > (since the 1980s). Yes, I should have posted a link to the entire
> > poem.
> Sorry to intervene, Mack, but Michael is not asking you to post links.
> In his view, links are bad, as they "lure" people away from the group.
>
>
> He's been asking (and now demanding) that you post "original commentary"
> with every poem or quotation you post.

I think Michael took an unnecessarily harsh tack, and that what he was trying to convey
is that the preferred method of interpersonal exchange here in this text based medium
is text. I don’t think anybody particularly objects to links except that they don’t afford
readers the opportunity to do what they come here to do, which is obviously to read.

George J. Dance wrote:

> On 2022-11-13 2:27 a.m., Michael Pendragon wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:17:22 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>>>>> On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 4:19:21 PM UTC-5, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 12:32:31 -0800 (PST), Michael Pendragon wrote:
>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 1:19:21 PM UTC-5, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
>>>>>>>>>>>> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "The heights by great men reached and kept
>>>>>>>>>>>> Were not attained by sudden flight,
>>>>>>>>>>>> But they, while their companions slept,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Were toiling upward in the night."
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Mack.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Please see 8) in our Guidelines, below:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> AAPC OFFICIAL GUIDELINES & FAQS
>>>>>>>>>> Please feel free to kill file me, but your group is too undisciplined
>>>>>>>>>> to have rules. What percentage of the group's posts are flames? This
>>>>>>>>>> is why I haven't been here too much. You need to crack down on
>>>>>>>>>> trouble makers.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, you are choosing to make yourself one of the troublemakers.
>>>>>>>> Then you will miss what I have to offer, won't you?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Unfortunately, one cannot miss posts. One can only block them after the fact.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I mentioned to another group that I post what makes me feel good. I
>>>>>>>> avoid flaming, and that is to say you can take it or leave it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is a *discussion* group. If you want to post poetry by well known authors, you should do so at rec.arts.poems. That is what that group was created for.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you continue to post such poetry here without comments, you *are* flaming the group -- and shall be treated like a troll for doing so.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Your choice.
>>>>>> How many posts in this group get 29 replies? Granted, a few of the
>>>>>> posts are mine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You will miss the train because you are arguing with the tricket
>>>>>> master (for this thread). Open your eyes, ears and most of all your
>>>>>> mind.
>>>>> Well put.
>>>> What's "well put,
>>> Mack's post.
>>
>> Mack's whacked. What's a "tricket" and how does one master it?

> If you find a word you don't understand, Michael, try to read it in
> context.

> In this case, he's using using a metaphor: comparing your overlooking
> the poem to argue with him, to missing a train because you were arguing
> with the *tricket* master.

> Now use context. What do you need to do when you board a train? Why, buy
> a "ticket". And from whom do you purchase the ticket? Why from the
> "ticket-master."

> Had you been able to do that, you would have realised that "tricket" was
> just a typo for "ticket." Not being able to read in context, you got
> confused and couldn't understand the sentence due to a simple typo,
> something you've done repeatedly in the past.

> I hope this advice helps you avoid similar goofs in the future.

Well put, George.

:)

On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:24:50 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:20:04 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:13:38 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:09:39 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Poe envied Longfellow’s professional success.
> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > No. He hated the New England school of literature, and everyone connected with it, and especially with Boston. Longfellow was the New England school's poster boy. Naturally, Poe detested him.
> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > Enjoy:
> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > http://americanliteraryblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/poe-and-longfellow-favorably-known-to.html
> > > > > > > > > >> > > > As a blog entry, it gives a brief introduction to the topic, and presents it in an interesting manner. But it doesn't really shed any new light on Poe's hatred of the Frogpondians.
> > > > > > > > > >> > > Of course not. Why would there be? Poe was an eloquent writer, not a hater,
> > > > > > > > > >> > > but discussing Poe’s work with you is like discussing Kerouac’s with Dockery.
> > > > > > > > > >> > I don't remember ever discussing Jack Kerouac with you.
> > > > > > > > > >> I didn’t say we did. I was using you as a simile.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > You and Michael were similarly seduced by the works of well known alcoholic writers,
> > > > > > > > > > and it has been well established by you both that you’ve each had issues with alcohol.
> > > > > > > > > Okay, interesting observation, Corey.
> > > > > > > > You and Michael are similarly impassioned in defense of your influences,
> > > > > > > > which puts me at a disadvantage in our discussions since I don’t share it,
> > > > > > > > which is the point I was trying to make previously, that it is as difficult for
> > > > > > > > me to discuss Poe with Michael as it is for me to discuss Kerouac with you.
> > > > > > > Lately, the same problem in discussing Edgar Allan Poe comes up when discussing or reading about Jerry Lee Lewis.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The fact always comes up that, like Poe, Lewis married his thirteen year old cousin.
> > > > > > Everyone knows that Poe married his cousin, Donkey. The only "problem" in discussing it, is in your trollish attempt to bait me into a flame war over it.
> > > > > Not really, as with every article on Jerry Lee Lewis (look it up) it can't be avoided that Edgar Allan Poe, legally or not, was a pedophile.
> > > > >
> > > > > Why should you flame anyone over the fact?
> > > > > > Poe and his cousin were happily married, and he remained a devoted husband to her till her untimely death.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Poe, by his own admission, did not consummate their marriage until a year after they were wed, at which time he felt her to be sufficiently mature.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Poe looked for spiritual relationships with women (as opposed to sexual ones), as he believed that passion tends to "degrade, rather than elevate, the Soul." In his young bride, Poe found the purity and innocence of one unspoiled by the mundane world. He describes his relationship with her in "Eleonora," wherein the change from platonic to romantic love is depicted in symbolic terms of blossoming love, without an sordid or lustful overtones.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > His relationship was a world or two away from your adolescent dalliances with the local kiddies, and from Pick's (hopefully made up) tales of 14-year old girls he seduced and abandoned.
> > > > It’s simply not true. You’re intentionally mischaracterizing the known facts.
> > > What's not true? That Poe was a devoted husband, or that 13-year old Will banged local pre-pubescents?
> > Neither Poe nor Lewis were pedophiles.
> Okay so age thirteen is an acceptable year for a girl to have sex with and marry older men, including their cousins?

Back in the days of Edgar Allan Poe and Jerry Lee Lewis, such adult men were known as "cradle robbners".

Is there a double standard for famous poets and rock stars...?

Zod wrote:

> On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:24:50 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:20:04 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
>> > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:13:38 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:09:39 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
>>
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Poe envied Longfellow’s professional success.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > No. He hated the New England school of literature, and everyone connected with it, and especially with Boston. Longfellow was the New England school's poster boy. Naturally, Poe detested him.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > Enjoy:
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > http://americanliteraryblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/poe-and-longfellow-favorably-known-to.html
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > As a blog entry, it gives a brief introduction to the topic, and presents it in an interesting manner. But it doesn't really shed any new light on Poe's hatred of the Frogpondians.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > Of course not. Why would there be? Poe was an eloquent writer, not a hater,
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > but discussing Poe’s work with you is like discussing Kerouac’s with Dockery.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > I don't remember ever discussing Jack Kerouac with you.
>> > > > > > > > > >> I didn’t say we did. I was using you as a simile.
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > You and Michael were similarly seduced by the works of well known alcoholic writers,
>> > > > > > > > > > and it has been well established by you both that you’ve each had issues with alcohol.
>> > > > > > > > > Okay, interesting observation, Corey.
>> > > > > > > > You and Michael are similarly impassioned in defense of your influences,
>> > > > > > > > which puts me at a disadvantage in our discussions since I don’t share it,
>> > > > > > > > which is the point I was trying to make previously, that it is as difficult for
>> > > > > > > > me to discuss Poe with Michael as it is for me to discuss Kerouac with you.
>> > > > > > > Lately, the same problem in discussing Edgar Allan Poe comes up when discussing or reading about Jerry Lee Lewis.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > The fact always comes up that, like Poe, Lewis married his thirteen year old cousin.
>> > > > > > Everyone knows that Poe married his cousin, Donkey. The only "problem" in discussing it, is in your trollish attempt to bait me into a flame war over it.
>> > > > > Not really, as with every article on Jerry Lee Lewis (look it up) it can't be avoided that Edgar Allan Poe, legally or not, was a pedophile.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Why should you flame anyone over the fact?
>> > > > > > Poe and his cousin were happily married, and he remained a devoted husband to her till her untimely death.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Poe, by his own admission, did not consummate their marriage until a year after they were wed, at which time he felt her to be sufficiently mature.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Poe looked for spiritual relationships with women (as opposed to sexual ones), as he believed that passion tends to "degrade, rather than elevate, the Soul." In his young bride, Poe found the purity and innocence of one unspoiled by the mundane world. He describes his relationship with her in "Eleonora," wherein the change from platonic to romantic love is depicted in symbolic terms of blossoming love, without an sordid or lustful overtones.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > His relationship was a world or two away from your adolescent dalliances with the local kiddies, and from Pick's (hopefully made up) tales of 14-year old girls he seduced and abandoned.
>> > > > It’s simply not true. You’re intentionally mischaracterizing the known facts.
>> > > What's not true? That Poe was a devoted husband, or that 13-year old Will banged local pre-pubescents?
>> > Neither Poe nor Lewis were pedophiles.
>> Okay so age thirteen is an acceptable year for a girl to have sex with and marry older men, including their cousins?

> Back in the days of Edgar Allan Poe and Jerry Lee Lewis, such adult men were known as "cradle robbners".

> Is there a double standard for famous poets and rock stars...?

To some, such as Michael Pendragon, apparently.

On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 3:26:11 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 3:07:11 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > On 2022-11-12 1:12 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 12:37:41 -0500, "George J. Dance"
> > > <george...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > >
> > >> On 2022-11-10 1:09 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > >>> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
> > >>>
> > >>> "The heights by great men reached and kept
> > >>> Were not attained by sudden flight,
> > >>> But they, while their companions slept,
> > >>> Were toiling upward in the night."
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> Looks like a Longfellow poem I haven't read, and one worth reading.
> > >>
> > >> I'll go look for it, but I'd ask you to give me a link next time.
> > >>
> > >> That's not a "GL" either, just a suggestion.
> > >
> > > It was a verse that struck me and has stayed with me for many decades
> > > (since the 1980s). Yes, I should have posted a link to the entire
> > > poem.
> > Sorry to intervene, Mack, but Michael is not asking you to post links.
> > In his view, links are bad, as they "lure" people away from the group.
> >
> >
> > He's been asking (and now demanding) that you post "original commentary"
> > with every poem or quotation you post.
> I think Michael took an unnecessarily harsh tack, and that what he was trying to convey
> is that the preferred method of interpersonal exchange here in this text based medium
> is text. I don’t think anybody particularly objects to links except that they don’t afford
> readers the opportunity to do what they come here to do, which is obviously to read.

I feel that I have been patient with Mack long enough.

You may have forgotten his behavior when I asked him why one should presuppose a split brain existed, when the so-called "evidence" for it (numinous experiences) still occurs today as a result of the separation of conscious and unconscious minds. Here's how Mack responded:

"You haven't read the book, and that says volumes about your lack of
intellect. Your questions and criticisms have no relevance to Jaynes'
theory. Good bye. I am not going to argue with a dining room table."

I excused his unwarranted tirade at the time... however, when taken in conjunction with his recent announcement that he shall not follow any Guidelines, I can only believe him to be another loony sock puppet that George and his Donkey invited from the Beatles or the Dylan group.

Mack is now on my troll-list, and shall be treated like his fellow trolls.

On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 9:19:18 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 3:26:11 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 3:07:11 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > On 2022-11-12 1:12 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > > On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 12:37:41 -0500, "George J. Dance"
> > > > <george...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> On 2022-11-10 1:09 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > >>> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
> > > >>>
> > > >>> "The heights by great men reached and kept
> > > >>> Were not attained by sudden flight,
> > > >>> But they, while their companions slept,
> > > >>> Were toiling upward in the night."
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >> Looks like a Longfellow poem I haven't read, and one worth reading..
> > > >>
> > > >> I'll go look for it, but I'd ask you to give me a link next time.
> > > >>
> > > >> That's not a "GL" either, just a suggestion.
> > > >
> > > > It was a verse that struck me and has stayed with me for many decades
> > > > (since the 1980s). Yes, I should have posted a link to the entire
> > > > poem.
> > > Sorry to intervene, Mack, but Michael is not asking you to post links..
> > > In his view, links are bad, as they "lure" people away from the group..
> > >
> > >
> > > He's been asking (and now demanding) that you post "original commentary"
> > > with every poem or quotation you post.
> > I think Michael took an unnecessarily harsh tack, and that what he was trying to convey
> > is that the preferred method of interpersonal exchange here in this text based medium
> > is text. I don’t think anybody particularly objects to links except that they don’t afford
> > readers the opportunity to do what they come here to do, which is obviously to read.
> I feel that I have been patient with Mack long enough.
>
> You may have forgotten his behavior when I asked him why one should presuppose a split brain existed, when the so-called "evidence" for it (numinous experiences) still occurs today as a result of the separation of conscious and unconscious minds. Here's how Mack responded:
>
> "You haven't read the book, and that says volumes about your lack of
> intellect. Your questions and criticisms have no relevance to Jaynes'
> theory. Good bye. I am not going to argue with a dining room table."
>
> I excused his unwarranted tirade at the time... however, when taken in conjunction with his recent announcement that he shall not follow any Guidelines, I can only believe him to be another loony sock puppet that George and his Donkey invited from the Beatles or the Dylan group.
>
> Mack is now on my troll-list, and shall be treated like his fellow trolls..

To plant or not to plant, that is never a question

Michael Pendragon wrote:

> On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 3:26:11 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
>> On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 3:07:11 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> > On 2022-11-12 1:12 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
>> > > On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 12:37:41 -0500, "George J. Dance"
>> > > <george...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> On 2022-11-10 1:09 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
>> > >>>
>> > >>> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
>> > >>> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
>> > >>>
>> > >>> "The heights by great men reached and kept
>> > >>> Were not attained by sudden flight,
>> > >>> But they, while their companions slept,
>> > >>> Were toiling upward in the night."
>> > >>>
>> > >>
>> > >> Looks like a Longfellow poem I haven't read, and one worth reading.
>> > >>
>> > >> I'll go look for it, but I'd ask you to give me a link next time.
>> > >>
>> > >> That's not a "GL" either, just a suggestion.
>> > >
>> > > It was a verse that struck me and has stayed with me for many decades
>> > > (since the 1980s). Yes, I should have posted a link to the entire
>> > > poem.
>> > Sorry to intervene, Mack, but Michael is not asking you to post links.
>> > In his view, links are bad, as they "lure" people away from the group.
>> >
>> >
>> > He's been asking (and now demanding) that you post "original commentary"
>> > with every poem or quotation you post.
>> I think Michael took an unnecessarily harsh tack, and that what he was trying to convey
>> is that the preferred method of interpersonal exchange here in this text based medium
>> is text. I don’t think anybody particularly objects to links except that they don’t afford
>> readers the opportunity to do what they come here to do, which is obviously to read.

> I feel that I have been patient with Mack long enough.

> You may have forgotten his behavior when I asked him why one should presuppose a split brain existed, when the so-called "evidence" for it (numinous experiences) still occurs today as a result of the separation of conscious and unconscious minds. Here's how Mack responded:

> "You haven't read the book, and that says volumes about your lack of
> intellect. Your questions and criticisms have no relevance to Jaynes'
> theory. Good bye. I am not going to argue with a dining room table."

> I excused his unwarranted tirade at the time... however, when taken in conjunction with his recent announcement that he shall not follow any Guidelines, I can only believe him to be another loony sock puppet that George and his Donkey invited from the Beatles or the Dylan group.

> Mack is now on my troll-list, and shall be treated like his fellow trolls..

Typical troll behavior, the desire to drive away newcomers.

And so it goes.

On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:41:07 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> Zod wrote:
>
> > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:24:50 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:20:04 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> >> > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:13:38 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:09:39 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> >>
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Poe envied Longfellow’s professional success.
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > No. He hated the New England school of literature, and everyone connected with it, and especially with Boston. Longfellow was the New England school's poster boy. Naturally, Poe detested him.
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > Enjoy:
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > http://americanliteraryblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/poe-and-longfellow-favorably-known-to.html
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > As a blog entry, it gives a brief introduction to the topic, and presents it in an interesting manner. But it doesn't really shed any new light on Poe's hatred of the Frogpondians.
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > Of course not. Why would there be? Poe was an eloquent writer, not a hater,
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > but discussing Poe’s work with you is like discussing Kerouac’s with Dockery.
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > I don't remember ever discussing Jack Kerouac with you.
> >> > > > > > > > > >> I didn’t say we did. I was using you as a simile.
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > You and Michael were similarly seduced by the works of well known alcoholic writers,
> >> > > > > > > > > > and it has been well established by you both that you’ve each had issues with alcohol.
> >> > > > > > > > > Okay, interesting observation, Corey.
> >> > > > > > > > You and Michael are similarly impassioned in defense of your influences,
> >> > > > > > > > which puts me at a disadvantage in our discussions since I don’t share it,
> >> > > > > > > > which is the point I was trying to make previously, that it is as difficult for
> >> > > > > > > > me to discuss Poe with Michael as it is for me to discuss Kerouac with you.
> >> > > > > > > Lately, the same problem in discussing Edgar Allan Poe comes up when discussing or reading about Jerry Lee Lewis.
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > The fact always comes up that, like Poe, Lewis married his thirteen year old cousin.
> >> > > > > > Everyone knows that Poe married his cousin, Donkey. The only "problem" in discussing it, is in your trollish attempt to bait me into a flame war over it.
> >> > > > > Not really, as with every article on Jerry Lee Lewis (look it up) it can't be avoided that Edgar Allan Poe, legally or not, was a pedophile.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Why should you flame anyone over the fact?
> >> > > > > > Poe and his cousin were happily married, and he remained a devoted husband to her till her untimely death.
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Poe, by his own admission, did not consummate their marriage until a year after they were wed, at which time he felt her to be sufficiently mature.
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Poe looked for spiritual relationships with women (as opposed to sexual ones), as he believed that passion tends to "degrade, rather than elevate, the Soul." In his young bride, Poe found the purity and innocence of one unspoiled by the mundane world. He describes his relationship with her in "Eleonora," wherein the change from platonic to romantic love is depicted in symbolic terms of blossoming love, without an sordid or lustful overtones.
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > His relationship was a world or two away from your adolescent dalliances with the local kiddies, and from Pick's (hopefully made up) tales of 14-year old girls he seduced and abandoned.
> >> > > > It’s simply not true. You’re intentionally mischaracterizing the known facts.
> >> > > What's not true? That Poe was a devoted husband, or that 13-year old Will banged local pre-pubescents?
> >> > Neither Poe nor Lewis were pedophiles.
> >> Okay so age thirteen is an acceptable year for a girl to have sex with and marry older men, including their cousins?
>
> > Back in the days of Edgar Allan Poe and Jerry Lee Lewis, such adult men were known as "cradle robbners".
>
> > Is there a double standard for famous poets and rock stars...?
> To some, such as Michael Pendragon, apparently.

I have not condemned Jerry Lee Lewis, Donkey. I said that his having chosen love over his career was something I admired.

Learn how to read, already.

Michael Pendragon wrote:

> On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:41:07 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> Zod wrote:
>>
>> > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:24:50 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> >> On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:20:04 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
>> >> > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:13:38 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >> > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:09:39 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Poe envied Longfellow’s professional success.
>> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > No. He hated the New England school of literature, and everyone connected with it, and especially with Boston. Longfellow was the New England school's poster boy. Naturally, Poe detested him..
>> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > Enjoy:
>> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >
>> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > http://americanliteraryblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/poe-and-longfellow-favorably-known-to.html
>> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > As a blog entry, it gives a brief introduction to the topic, and presents it in an interesting manner. But it doesn't really shed any new light on Poe's hatred of the Frogpondians.
>> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > Of course not. Why would there be? Poe was an eloquent writer, not a hater,
>> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > but discussing Poe’s work with you is like discussing Kerouac’s with Dockery.
>> >> > > > > > > > > >> > I don't remember ever discussing Jack Kerouac with you.
>> >> > > > > > > > > >> I didn’t say we did. I was using you as a simile.
>> >> > > > > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > > > > > You and Michael were similarly seduced by the works of well known alcoholic writers,
>> >> > > > > > > > > > and it has been well established by you both that you’ve each had issues with alcohol.
>> >> > > > > > > > > Okay, interesting observation, Corey.
>> >> > > > > > > > You and Michael are similarly impassioned in defense of your influences,
>> >> > > > > > > > which puts me at a disadvantage in our discussions since I don’t share it,
>> >> > > > > > > > which is the point I was trying to make previously, that it is as difficult for
>> >> > > > > > > > me to discuss Poe with Michael as it is for me to discuss Kerouac with you.
>> >> > > > > > > Lately, the same problem in discussing Edgar Allan Poe comes up when discussing or reading about Jerry Lee Lewis.
>> >> > > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > > The fact always comes up that, like Poe, Lewis married his thirteen year old cousin.
>> >> > > > > > Everyone knows that Poe married his cousin, Donkey. The only "problem" in discussing it, is in your trollish attempt to bait me into a flame war over it.
>> >> > > > > Not really, as with every article on Jerry Lee Lewis (look it up) it can't be avoided that Edgar Allan Poe, legally or not, was a pedophile.
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > > Why should you flame anyone over the fact?
>> >> > > > > > Poe and his cousin were happily married, and he remained a devoted husband to her till her untimely death.
>> >> > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > Poe, by his own admission, did not consummate their marriage until a year after they were wed, at which time he felt her to be sufficiently mature.
>> >> > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > Poe looked for spiritual relationships with women (as opposed to sexual ones), as he believed that passion tends to "degrade, rather than elevate, the Soul." In his young bride, Poe found the purity and innocence of one unspoiled by the mundane world. He describes his relationship with her in "Eleonora," wherein the change from platonic to romantic love is depicted in symbolic terms of blossoming love, without an sordid or lustful overtones.
>> >> > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > His relationship was a world or two away from your adolescent dalliances with the local kiddies, and from Pick's (hopefully made up) tales of 14-year old girls he seduced and abandoned.
>> >> > > > It’s simply not true. You’re intentionally mischaracterizing the known facts.
>> >> > > What's not true? That Poe was a devoted husband, or that 13-year old Will banged local pre-pubescents?
>> >> > Neither Poe nor Lewis were pedophiles.
>> >> Okay so age thirteen is an acceptable year for a girl to have sex with and marry older men, including their cousins?
>>
>> > Back in the days of Edgar Allan Poe and Jerry Lee Lewis, such adult men were known as "cradle robbners".
>>
>> > Is there a double standard for famous poets and rock stars...?
>> To some, such as Michael Pendragon, apparently.

> I have not condemned Jerry Lee Lewis

True, like Edgar Allan Poe, Lewis married his thirteen year old cousin, and you seem fine with that idea, Pendragon.

Got it.

🙂

On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 9:19:18 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 3:26:11 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 3:07:11 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > On 2022-11-12 1:12 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > > On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 12:37:41 -0500, "George J. Dance"
> > > > <george...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> On 2022-11-10 1:09 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > >>> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
> > > >>>
> > > >>> "The heights by great men reached and kept
> > > >>> Were not attained by sudden flight,
> > > >>> But they, while their companions slept,
> > > >>> Were toiling upward in the night."
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >> Looks like a Longfellow poem I haven't read, and one worth reading..
> > > >>
> > > >> I'll go look for it, but I'd ask you to give me a link next time.
> > > >>
> > > >> That's not a "GL" either, just a suggestion.
> > > >
> > > > It was a verse that struck me and has stayed with me for many decades
> > > > (since the 1980s). Yes, I should have posted a link to the entire
> > > > poem.
> > > Sorry to intervene, Mack, but Michael is not asking you to post links..
> > > In his view, links are bad, as they "lure" people away from the group..
> > >
> > >
> > > He's been asking (and now demanding) that you post "original commentary"
> > > with every poem or quotation you post.
> > I think Michael took an unnecessarily harsh tack, and that what he was trying to convey
> > is that the preferred method of interpersonal exchange here in this text based medium
> > is text. I don’t think anybody particularly objects to links except that they don’t afford
> > readers the opportunity to do what they come here to do, which is obviously to read.
> I feel that I have been patient with Mack long enough.
>
> You may have forgotten his behavior when I asked him why one should presuppose a split brain existed, when the so-called "evidence" for it (numinous experiences) still occurs today as a result of the separation of conscious and unconscious minds. Here's how Mack responded:
>
> "You haven't read the book, and that says volumes about your lack of
> intellect. Your questions and criticisms have no relevance to Jaynes'
> theory. Good bye. I am not going to argue with a dining room table."
>
> I excused his unwarranted tirade at the time... however, when taken in conjunction with his recent announcement that he shall not follow any Guidelines, I can only believe him to be another loony sock puppet that George and his Donkey invited from the Beatles or the Dylan group.
>
> Mack is now on my troll-list, and shall be treated like his fellow trolls..

I’m not concerned with your feelings, Michael. You may feel that you have been patient,
and by your standards maybe you have been, but you’re really not a very patient person.
FYI, I don’t follow the guidelines either. I just don’t make a big deal about it. In fact, I don’t
think I’ve ever read your guidelines or FAQ all the way through, but I appreciate the effort
you put into them. They simply don’t apply to me. No offense intended. Keep up the great work.

George J. Dance wrote:

> On 2022-11-12 1:12 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
>> On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 12:37:41 -0500, "George J. Dance"
>> <georgedance04@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2022-11-10 1:09 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
>>>> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
>>>>
>>>> "The heights by great men reached and kept
>>>> Were not attained by sudden flight,
>>>> But they, while their companions slept,
>>>> Were toiling upward in the night."
>>>>
>>>
>>> Looks like a Longfellow poem I haven't read, and one worth reading.
>>>
>>> I'll go look for it, but I'd ask you to give me a link next time.
>>>
>>> That's not a "GL" either, just a suggestion.
>>
>> It was a verse that struck me and has stayed with me for many decades
>> (since the 1980s). Yes, I should have posted a link to the entire
>> poem.

> Sorry to intervene, Mack, but Michael is not asking you to post links.
> In his view, links are bad, as they "lure" people away from the group.

> He's been asking (and now demanding) that you post "original commentary"
> with every poem or quotation you post.

As we know, Michael Pendragon is a delusional control freak on an ego trip.

HTH and HAND.

On Tuesday, November 15, 2022 at 2:19:18 AM UTC, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:

> I excused his unwarranted tirade at the time... however, when taken in conjunction with his recent announcement that he shall not follow any Guidelines, I can only believe him to be another loony sock puppet that George and his Donkey invited from the Beatles or the Dylan group.

If Mack is not a troll, he certainly lacks filters on what and where he posts. He told us his real name, where he lives (complete with pictures), what his house is worth, his education, his love life and that he has been married "several" times, his automobiles, and that despite having lived in Mexico for ~20 years, he hasn't bothered to learn to speak Spanish. Is that bragging or being trollish?
>
> Mack is now on my troll-list, and shall be treated like his fellow trolls..
He hasn't acclimated well to a poetry environment.

On Tuesday, November 15, 2022 at 4:46:37 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 9:19:18 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 3:26:11 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 3:07:11 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > On 2022-11-12 1:12 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > > > On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 12:37:41 -0500, "George J. Dance"
> > > > > <george...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> On 2022-11-10 1:09 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > >>> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> "The heights by great men reached and kept
> > > > >>> Were not attained by sudden flight,
> > > > >>> But they, while their companions slept,
> > > > >>> Were toiling upward in the night."
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Looks like a Longfellow poem I haven't read, and one worth reading.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I'll go look for it, but I'd ask you to give me a link next time..
> > > > >>
> > > > >> That's not a "GL" either, just a suggestion.
> > > > >
> > > > > It was a verse that struck me and has stayed with me for many decades
> > > > > (since the 1980s). Yes, I should have posted a link to the entire
> > > > > poem.
> > > > Sorry to intervene, Mack, but Michael is not asking you to post links.
> > > > In his view, links are bad, as they "lure" people away from the group.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > He's been asking (and now demanding) that you post "original commentary"
> > > > with every poem or quotation you post.
> > > I think Michael took an unnecessarily harsh tack, and that what he was trying to convey
> > > is that the preferred method of interpersonal exchange here in this text based medium
> > > is text. I don’t think anybody particularly objects to links except that they don’t afford
> > > readers the opportunity to do what they come here to do, which is obviously to read.
> > I feel that I have been patient with Mack long enough.
> >
> > You may have forgotten his behavior when I asked him why one should presuppose a split brain existed, when the so-called "evidence" for it (numinous experiences) still occurs today as a result of the separation of conscious and unconscious minds. Here's how Mack responded:
> >
> > "You haven't read the book, and that says volumes about your lack of
> > intellect. Your questions and criticisms have no relevance to Jaynes'
> > theory. Good bye. I am not going to argue with a dining room table."
> >
> > I excused his unwarranted tirade at the time... however, when taken in conjunction with his recent announcement that he shall not follow any Guidelines, I can only believe him to be another loony sock puppet that George and his Donkey invited from the Beatles or the Dylan group.
> >
> > Mack is now on my troll-list, and shall be treated like his fellow trolls.
> I’m not concerned with your feelings, Michael. You may feel that you have been patient,
> and by your standards maybe you have been, but you’re really not a very patient person.
> FYI, I don’t follow the guidelines either. I just don’t make a big deal about it. In fact, I don’t
> think I’ve ever read your guidelines or FAQ all the way through, but I appreciate the effort
> you put into them. They simply don’t apply to me. No offense intended. Keep up the great work.

Since the GLs ask only for common courtesy (netiquette), like most of us you follow them without trying.

On Tuesday, November 15, 2022 at 8:38:57 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 15, 2022 at 4:46:37 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 9:19:18 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail..com wrote:
> > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 3:26:11 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 3:07:11 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > On 2022-11-12 1:12 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > > > > On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 12:37:41 -0500, "George J. Dance"
> > > > > > <george...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> On 2022-11-10 1:09 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > > >>> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> "The heights by great men reached and kept
> > > > > >>> Were not attained by sudden flight,
> > > > > >>> But they, while their companions slept,
> > > > > >>> Were toiling upward in the night."
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Looks like a Longfellow poem I haven't read, and one worth reading.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I'll go look for it, but I'd ask you to give me a link next time.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> That's not a "GL" either, just a suggestion.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It was a verse that struck me and has stayed with me for many decades
> > > > > > (since the 1980s). Yes, I should have posted a link to the entire
> > > > > > poem.
> > > > > Sorry to intervene, Mack, but Michael is not asking you to post links.
> > > > > In his view, links are bad, as they "lure" people away from the group.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > He's been asking (and now demanding) that you post "original commentary"
> > > > > with every poem or quotation you post.
> > > > I think Michael took an unnecessarily harsh tack, and that what he was trying to convey
> > > > is that the preferred method of interpersonal exchange here in this text based medium
> > > > is text. I don’t think anybody particularly objects to links except that they don’t afford
> > > > readers the opportunity to do what they come here to do, which is obviously to read.
> > > I feel that I have been patient with Mack long enough.
> > >
> > > You may have forgotten his behavior when I asked him why one should presuppose a split brain existed, when the so-called "evidence" for it (numinous experiences) still occurs today as a result of the separation of conscious and unconscious minds. Here's how Mack responded:
> > >
> > > "You haven't read the book, and that says volumes about your lack of
> > > intellect. Your questions and criticisms have no relevance to Jaynes'
> > > theory. Good bye. I am not going to argue with a dining room table."
> > >
> > > I excused his unwarranted tirade at the time... however, when taken in conjunction with his recent announcement that he shall not follow any Guidelines, I can only believe him to be another loony sock puppet that George and his Donkey invited from the Beatles or the Dylan group.
> > >
> > > Mack is now on my troll-list, and shall be treated like his fellow trolls.
> > I’m not concerned with your feelings, Michael. You may feel that you have been patient,
> > and by your standards maybe you have been, but you’re really not a very patient person.
> > FYI, I don’t follow the guidelines either. I just don’t make a big deal about it. In fact, I don’t
> > think I’ve ever read your guidelines or FAQ all the way through, but I appreciate the effort
> > you put into them. They simply don’t apply to me. No offense intended. Keep up the great work.
> Since the GLs ask only for common courtesy (netiquette), like most of us you follow them without trying.

The nature of common courtesy is that as soon as you demand
it of others, especially in an unmoderated environment like this,
it either disappears from you, or makes you look silly for asking.

On Tuesday, November 15, 2022 at 8:56:35 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 15, 2022 at 8:38:57 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, November 15, 2022 at 4:46:37 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 9:19:18 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 3:26:11 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 3:07:11 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo..ca wrote:
> > > > > > On 2022-11-12 1:12 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > > > > > On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 12:37:41 -0500, "George J. Dance"
> > > > > > > <george...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> On 2022-11-10 1:09 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > > > >>> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> "The heights by great men reached and kept
> > > > > > >>> Were not attained by sudden flight,
> > > > > > >>> But they, while their companions slept,
> > > > > > >>> Were toiling upward in the night."
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Looks like a Longfellow poem I haven't read, and one worth reading.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> I'll go look for it, but I'd ask you to give me a link next time.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> That's not a "GL" either, just a suggestion.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It was a verse that struck me and has stayed with me for many decades
> > > > > > > (since the 1980s). Yes, I should have posted a link to the entire
> > > > > > > poem.
> > > > > > Sorry to intervene, Mack, but Michael is not asking you to post links.
> > > > > > In his view, links are bad, as they "lure" people away from the group.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > He's been asking (and now demanding) that you post "original commentary"
> > > > > > with every poem or quotation you post.
> > > > > I think Michael took an unnecessarily harsh tack, and that what he was trying to convey
> > > > > is that the preferred method of interpersonal exchange here in this text based medium
> > > > > is text. I don’t think anybody particularly objects to links except that they don’t afford
> > > > > readers the opportunity to do what they come here to do, which is obviously to read.
> > > > I feel that I have been patient with Mack long enough.
> > > >
> > > > You may have forgotten his behavior when I asked him why one should presuppose a split brain existed, when the so-called "evidence" for it (numinous experiences) still occurs today as a result of the separation of conscious and unconscious minds. Here's how Mack responded:
> > > >
> > > > "You haven't read the book, and that says volumes about your lack of
> > > > intellect. Your questions and criticisms have no relevance to Jaynes'
> > > > theory. Good bye. I am not going to argue with a dining room table."
> > > >
> > > > I excused his unwarranted tirade at the time... however, when taken in conjunction with his recent announcement that he shall not follow any Guidelines, I can only believe him to be another loony sock puppet that George and his Donkey invited from the Beatles or the Dylan group.
> > > >
> > > > Mack is now on my troll-list, and shall be treated like his fellow trolls.
> > > I’m not concerned with your feelings, Michael. You may feel that you have been patient,
> > > and by your standards maybe you have been, but you’re really not a very patient person.
> > > FYI, I don’t follow the guidelines either. I just don’t make a big deal about it. In fact, I don’t
> > > think I’ve ever read your guidelines or FAQ all the way through, but I appreciate the effort
> > > you put into them. They simply don’t apply to me. No offense intended. Keep up the great work.
> > Since the GLs ask only for common courtesy (netiquette), like most of us you follow them without trying.
> The nature of common courtesy is that as soon as you demand
> it of others, especially in an unmoderated environment like this,
> it either disappears from you, or makes you look silly for asking.

So now Michael is your target for asking some kind of structure.

You post on everything...now I see you at AYoS with a "plonk" comment.

Your 'courtesy' is overrated.