On 2021-06-18 10:49 a.m., Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote in
> news:saim7e$rt3$1@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 2021-06-18 9:59 a.m., Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
>> wrote:
>>> "edstas...@gmail.com" <edstasiak1067@gmail.com> wrote in
>>> news:4c5034ad-bc9b-4c2c-bee2-15f5b11ed8a8n@googlegroups.com:
>>>
>>>>> Alan Baker
>>>>>> Lynn McGuire
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Texas is now the 21st Constitutional Carry State.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let the carnage commence.
>>>>
>>>> We’ve been hearing the same thing ever since Florida
>>>> introduce “shall issue” concealed carry back in 1987, yet
>>>> the U.S. murder rate continues to go down despite over 19
>>>> million Americans now carrying a concealed handgun.
>>>
>>> Except in places like New York City, where Democrats are in
>>> charge, and wipe their ass with the Contitution, especially the
>>> 2nd Amendment.
>>>
>>> There's shootings are up 70% since the pandemic started.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Not that you'll ever offer proof of that...
>>
> It's in the news every day. And you have *never* admitted when
> proof has been offered. You *always* lie, literally *every*
> *single* *time*.

And yet you can't offer up a single example...

On 2021-06-18 10:49 a.m., Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote in
> news:saim7e$rt3$1@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 2021-06-18 9:59 a.m., Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
>> wrote:
>>> "edstas...@gmail.com" <edstasiak1067@gmail.com> wrote in
>>> news:4c5034ad-bc9b-4c2c-bee2-15f5b11ed8a8n@googlegroups.com:
>>>
>>>>> Alan Baker
>>>>>> Lynn McGuire
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Texas is now the 21st Constitutional Carry State.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let the carnage commence.
>>>>
>>>> We’ve been hearing the same thing ever since Florida
>>>> introduce “shall issue” concealed carry back in 1987, yet
>>>> the U.S. murder rate continues to go down despite over 19
>>>> million Americans now carrying a concealed handgun.
>>>
>>> Except in places like New York City, where Democrats are in
>>> charge, and wipe their ass with the Contitution, especially the
>>> 2nd Amendment.
>>>
>>> There's shootings are up 70% since the pandemic started.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Not that you'll ever offer proof of that...
>>
> It's in the news every day. And you have *never* admitted when
> proof has been offered. You *always* lie, literally *every*
> *single* *time*.
>
> Go play your insane, childish games with somebody as stupid as you
> are, retard. Your stance advocating for more violent crime makes
> you, like Quaddie, literally a subhuman animal who should be put
> down as a matter of public safety.

I think we can all see who the "animal" is here.

:-)

On 2021 Jun 18, Quadibloc wrote
(in article<ac6cb5d8-8afc-4121-88a9-e9a0a25ebb46n@googlegroups.com>):

> On Thursday, June 17, 2021 at 3:29:26 PM UTC-6, Alan Baker wrote:
> > On 2021-06-17 2:18 p.m., edstas...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > If guns were the problem then the murder rate would be more or less
> > > the same across the country, instead of being concentrated in the
> > > same inner cities year after year and ought to be astronomically
> > > higher today.
>
> > Nope. That doesn't follow.
>
> Oh, it _does_ follow. Guns aren't "the problem". If peaceful law-abiding
> citizens owned guns in greater numbers, this would not greatly increase
> crime using guns.
>
> The principal cause of crime is, after all, criminals.
>
> The case for gun control is a bit more difficult to make.

Gun control Will Not Bloody Work. It’s not just my opinion, it’s
demonstrable.

In the mid 1970s Jamaica had a lot of political violence, mostly with guns,
one of the results of which were several dead politicians. In response came
the Gun Court Act. The Gun Court set up a special court, just for gun crimes.
It was, and I quote the then Minister of Justice, painted ‘red because
it’s dread’. The Gun Court was carved out of a part of Up Park Camp, the
main base of the Jamaican army. Right beside it was a special prison, also
painted red, the South Camp Road Detention Centre. This was just for those
convicted in the Gun Court, and was also carved out of Up Park Camp... sort
of. It had guard towers and a wall exactly like those which may be seen in
any movie set in Germany in 1939-45 and featuring a prison camp; Time
magazine ran a story, complete with pictures, though not colour pix so some
of the impact was lost, headlined “Stalag in Kingston”.
http://content.time.com/time/subscriber/article/0,33009,908746,00.html Note
that the archived article lacks pix. There was no bail for anyone brought
before the Gun Court. If convicted, the sentence was ‘indefinite
detention’. IOW they’ll let you out sometime around the 12th of Never.
Possession of so much as one bullet (that’s ‘bullet’, not a complete
cartridge...) would do for a conviction. You could get a gun license... but
it was very difficult, And you were allowed a fixed amount of ammunition per
gun per year on the license. _Even a licensed firearm holder was subject to
the Gun Court if he had so much as one bullet more than was allowed on his
license._ And if your local superintendent of police didn’t like you,
you’re not getting a license, and may have existing licenses revoked. The
LawLords of the Privy Council in the UK ruled against the ‘indefinite
detention’ which became life without parole. For a bullet. And, oh, the
guard towers were manned by soldiers with machineguns, not corrections
officers. It was only kinda carved out of the base.

For a while things cooled down, as noted in the Time article. Then they
heated up again. In 1980 Jamaica had the single most violent general election
ever to be contested in the Western Hemisphere. 146 policemen were killed;
you see, guns were illegal for John Public, but _cops_ had guns, so a
half-dozen boys with machetes would jump a cop, kill him, take his gun. Mere
possession of even a bullet drew a harsher penalty than murder... Cops
started walking around in groups of four to six. Over 1000 (out of a
population of about 3 million) were killed by gunfire linked to the election.
This does not count those killed by non-political crime. It does not count
the 153 elderly women burned to death in an arson fire at an old age home, an
arson linked to politics. It does not count the assorted druggie gun turf
wars. Wiki says that the election was ‘marked by gun violence’.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_Jamaican_general_election No duh. The
Jamaica Observer newspaper says
https://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/The-bloody-general-election-that-changed-
Jamaica which gives only 844 dead, short of the actual figure by about 50%.
The Observer did not then exist, but is now the, ahem, ’socialist’ paper,
supporting the PNP; the Jamaica Gleaner is the ‘labourite’ paper,
supporting the JLP. (Jamaica has the only right-wing labour party in the
Caribbean...) Carl Stone, noted in the article as a ‘respected’ pollster,
worked for the Gleaner, which is one reason why the socialists discounted his
figures. However, even the socialists had to admit that there were a whole
lot of bodies.

The Gun Court and the stalag are still in business. In 1998 the Gun Court was
moved to more spacious grounds, and the prison system took over from the
Army; the guard towers are still there and still have machineguns. There are,
however, so many gun crimes that the Gun Court can’t try them all, even
after it got extra space in 1998, many/most go to ordinary courts, and there
isn’t enough space in the stalag; gun criminals get to go to such garden
spots as the St. Catherine District Prison, built in the 19th century and
explicitly modeled on a slave barracoon and which when last I checked had
more than double the number of inmates it was supposed to hold.

Gun control has been demonstrated to not work. It’s been nearly 50 years
and it just does not work, not even in a small country.

On Fri, 18 Jun 2021 07:24:13 -0700, Alan Baker wrote:

> On 2021-06-18 7:22 a.m., Jay E. Morris wrote:
>> On 6/18/2021 8:16 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> On Fri, 18 Jun 2021 04:55:48 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thursday, June 17, 2021 at 11:01:59 AM UTC-6, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> But, really, 18 people can be stabbed to death and there is no major
>>>>> outcry. Three get shot and its a national disaster.
>>>> Guns make it a lot easier for people to kill people.
>>>>
>>>> So if people are killed by the use of guns, these deaths could
>>>> perhaps have been*prevented*  if the killer had not had any access to
>>>> a gun. Of course there is an outcry when people die as a result of
>>>> government negligence.
>>> Or he might have blocked the doors and thrown in a Molotov and killed
>>> ten times as many
>>
>> UpStairs Lounge attack in New Orleans in 1973. Emergency exits jammed,
>> entrance firebombed. 36 dead.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UpStairs_Lounge_arson_attack
>
> And how many have there been since 1973?
>
> What is the total number dead?
>
> Compare and contrast with mass shootings.

Gun massacres are easier but much less dangerous. And since guns do not
have a magical ability to force people to go off on killing sprees(a
surprise to many people apparently) you would probably end up with a
lower number of attacks with more dead unless something is done about the
root causes.

I mean in my case if I just wanted to kill a bunch of people I would be a
lot less dangerous if you gave me a tank with infinite ammo(not to
mention a gun) rather than using chemicals.

Wolffan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote in
news:0001HW.267D238E07AD8DC970000AF5B38F@news.supernews.com:

> Gun control has been demonstrated to not work. It’s been
> nearly 50 years and it just does not work, not even in a small
> country.
>
One well documented example. But there are *many* others. A century
or more of gun control laws not working, once, ever.

Gun control isn't about guns, it's about control. Namely, those who
advocate it want to control all the guns, so they can kill at will
without fear of consequence.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

On 6/18/2021 12:44 PM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> Happy Land Fire, Bronx, New York

No idea why that one wasn't on my list. Is now. Thanks

On 6/18/2021 9:22 AM, Jay E. Morris wrote:
> On 6/18/2021 8:16 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Fri, 18 Jun 2021 04:55:48 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>  wrote:
>>
>>> On Thursday, June 17, 2021 at 11:01:59 AM UTC-6, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>
>>>> But, really, 18 people can be stabbed to death and there is no major
>>>> outcry. Three get shot and its a national disaster.
>>> Guns make it a lot easier for people to kill people.
>>>
>>> So if people are killed by the use of guns, these deaths could
>>> perhaps have been*prevented*  if the killer had not had any
>>> access to a gun. Of course there is an outcry when people die
>>> as a result of government negligence.
>> Or he might have blocked the doors and thrown in a Molotov and killed
>> ten times as many
>
> UpStairs Lounge attack in New Orleans in 1973. Emergency exits jammed,
> entrance firebombed. 36 dead.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UpStairs_Lounge_arson_attack

"Bath School bombing". 45 dead including perpetrator, 58 injured in
1927 in Michigan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

"New London School explosion". Accidental natural gas leak in 1937.
295 dead, 300+ injured in Texas.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_London_School_explosion

Lynn

On 6/18/2021 9:31 AM, Alan Baker wrote:
> On 2021-06-18 7:27 a.m., Jay E. Morris wrote:
>> On 6/18/2021 12:35 AM, Alan Baker wrote:
>>> On 2021-06-17 7:32 p.m., Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>> On 6/17/2021 11:55 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 17:42:17 -0400, Jonathan <LSA@UMich.edu> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The Second Amendment is written in stone and it
>>>>>> gives us the right to bear arms.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is /not/ "written in stone". Prohibition was reversed, and so could
>>>>> this one be, at least in theory.
>>>>>
>>>>> And it might be, not reversed, but amended in turn, to "clarify" it,
>>>>> if that appears to be needed.
>>>>>
>>>>> And, of course, provided the votes can be found. Which seems unlikely,
>>>>> I'll admit.
>>>>
>>>> Texas became the 21st Constitutional Carry State today.
>>>>
>>>> “Texans can carry handguns without a license or training starting
>>>> Sept. 1, after Gov. Greg Abbott signs permitless carry bill into law”
>>>>
>>>> https://www.texastribune.org/2021/06/16/texas-constitutional-carry-greg-abbott/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> “Texans can carry handguns without a license or training starting
>>>> Sept. 1, after Gov. Greg Abbott on Wednesday signed the permitless
>>>> carry bill into law.”
>>>>
>>>> Texas is now the 21st Constitutional Carry State.  I thought that
>>>> this would never happen.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.nraila.org/articles/20210525/alabama-texas-beats-alabama-to-become-21st-constitutional-carry-state
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Lynn
>>>
>>> Let the carnage commence.
>>
>> People said that in 1995 when concealed carry passed and were shown to
>> be full of shit. People said that in 2016 when the open carry bill
>> passed and were shown to be full of shit. People said that in every
>> state where permitless or constitutional carry passed and were shown
>> to be full of shit.
>>
>> Welcome to the club.
>
> Ask yourself what is going to happen when there is an active shooter,
> and then 6 other people take out their guns...
>
> ...and then the trigger-happy police show up.

Oh, you mean like at the White Settlement shooting[1]? Jack Wilson was
not the only one who pulled his handgun to stop him (looks like at maybe
four others), he was just the one with the shot.

[1]Which of course was not a mass shooting because only two innocents
were killed. And if more had been killed then it would have been "See?
Good guys with guns can't stop mass shootings".

On 6/18/2021 11:19 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Jun 2021 07:31:01 -0700, Alan Baker
> <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
>
>> On 2021-06-18 7:27 a.m., Jay E. Morris wrote:
>>> On 6/18/2021 12:35 AM, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>> On 2021-06-17 7:32 p.m., Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>> On 6/17/2021 11:55 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 17:42:17 -0400, Jonathan <LSA@UMich.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Second Amendment is written in stone and it
>>>>>>> gives us the right to bear arms.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is /not/ "written in stone". Prohibition was reversed, and so could
>>>>>> this one be, at least in theory.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And it might be, not reversed, but amended in turn, to "clarify" it,
>>>>>> if that appears to be needed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And, of course, provided the votes can be found. Which seems unlikely,
>>>>>> I'll admit.
>>>>>
>>>>> Texas became the 21st Constitutional Carry State today.
>>>>>
>>>>> “Texans can carry handguns without a license or training starting
>>>>> Sept. 1, after Gov. Greg Abbott signs permitless carry bill into law”
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.texastribune.org/2021/06/16/texas-constitutional-carry-greg-abbott/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> “Texans can carry handguns without a license or training starting
>>>>> Sept. 1, after Gov. Greg Abbott on Wednesday signed the permitless
>>>>> carry bill into law.”
>>>>>
>>>>> Texas is now the 21st Constitutional Carry State.  I thought that
>>>>> this would never happen.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.nraila.org/articles/20210525/alabama-texas-beats-alabama-to-become-21st-constitutional-carry-state
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Lynn
>>>>
>>>> Let the carnage commence.
>>>
>>> People said that in 1995 when concealed carry passed and were shown to
>>> be full of shit. People said that in 2016 when the open carry bill
>>> passed and were shown to be full of shit. People said that in every
>>> state where permitless or constitutional carry passed and were shown to
>>> be full of shit.
>>>
>>> Welcome to the club.
>>
>> Ask yourself what is going to happen when there is an active shooter,
>> and then 6 other people take out their guns...
>>
>> ...and then the trigger-happy police show up.
>
> Myself, I'm waiting for them to decide that age limits are
> unconstitional, and then start to arm grade-schoolers.
>
> Won't /that/ be fun!

When I was in high school in Texas, half of the kids had rifles or
shotguns inside their trucks out in the high school parking lot. That
was over 40 years ago though.

Lynn

On 6/18/2021 12:09 PM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> Texas is the*twenty* *first* state to do this. That means there
> are*twenty* other states that have*already* done it, some of them
> decades ago. There's nothing*new* here. There's*decades* of data
> on how it turns out.

Nevada and Vermont have always been Constitutional Carry states. Not
sure about the others.

Lynn

On 6/18/2021 4:54 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 6/18/2021 9:22 AM, Jay E. Morris wrote:
>> On 6/18/2021 8:16 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> On Fri, 18 Jun 2021 04:55:48 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thursday, June 17, 2021 at 11:01:59 AM UTC-6, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> But, really, 18 people can be stabbed to death and there is no major
>>>>> outcry. Three get shot and its a national disaster.
>>>> Guns make it a lot easier for people to kill people.
>>>>
>>>> So if people are killed by the use of guns, these deaths could
>>>> perhaps have been*prevented*  if the killer had not had any
>>>> access to a gun. Of course there is an outcry when people die
>>>> as a result of government negligence.
>>> Or he might have blocked the doors and thrown in a Molotov and killed
>>> ten times as many
>>
>> UpStairs Lounge attack in New Orleans in 1973. Emergency exits jammed,
>> entrance firebombed. 36 dead.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UpStairs_Lounge_arson_attack
>
> "Bath School bombing".  45 dead including perpetrator, 58 injured in
> 1927 in Michigan.
>    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster
>
> "New London School explosion".  Accidental natural gas leak in 1937. 295
> dead, 300+ injured in Texas.
>    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_London_School_explosion
>
> Lynn
>

Yeah, I have the Bath School one. I was going for arson. Thanks

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
news:saj574$rka$3@dont-email.me:

> On 6/18/2021 12:09 PM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>> Texas is the*twenty* *first* state to do this. That means
>> there are*twenty* other states that have*already* done it,
>> some of them decades ago. There's nothing*new* here.
>> There's*decades* of data on how it turns out.
>
> Nevada and Vermont have always been Constitutional Carry states.
> Not sure about the others.

"Always been" means "has been this way for a *long* fucking time,
with the predicted carnage" rather than "been this way for a shorter
time without the predicted carnage."

The left doesn't even *try* to lie convincingly any more. Not that
they were ever very good at it.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
news:saj52f$rka$2@dont-email.me:

> On 6/18/2021 11:19 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>> On Fri, 18 Jun 2021 07:31:01 -0700, Alan Baker
>> <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2021-06-18 7:27 a.m., Jay E. Morris wrote:
>>>> On 6/18/2021 12:35 AM, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>>> On 2021-06-17 7:32 p.m., Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/17/2021 11:55 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 17:42:17 -0400, Jonathan
>>>>>>> <LSA@UMich.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Second Amendment is written in stone and it
>>>>>>>> gives us the right to bear arms.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is /not/ "written in stone". Prohibition was reversed,
>>>>>>> and so could this one be, at least in theory.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And it might be, not reversed, but amended in turn, to
>>>>>>> "clarify" it, if that appears to be needed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And, of course, provided the votes can be found. Which
>>>>>>> seems unlikely, I'll admit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Texas became the 21st Constitutional Carry State today.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “Texans can carry handguns without a license or training
>>>>>> starting Sept. 1, after Gov. Greg Abbott signs permitless
>>>>>> carry bill into law”
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.texastribune.org/2021/06/16/texas-constitutional
>>>>>> -carry-greg-abbott/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “Texans can carry handguns without a license or training
>>>>>> starting Sept. 1, after Gov. Greg Abbott on Wednesday
>>>>>> signed the permitless carry bill into law.”
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Texas is now the 21st Constitutional Carry State.  I
>>>>>> thought that this would never happen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.nraila.org/articles/20210525/alabama-texas-beats
>>>>>> -alabama-to-become-21st-constitutional-carry-state
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lynn
>>>>>
>>>>> Let the carnage commence.
>>>>
>>>> People said that in 1995 when concealed carry passed and were
>>>> shown to be full of shit. People said that in 2016 when the
>>>> open carry bill passed and were shown to be full of shit.
>>>> People said that in every state where permitless or
>>>> constitutional carry passed and were shown to be full of
>>>> shit.
>>>>
>>>> Welcome to the club.
>>>
>>> Ask yourself what is going to happen when there is an active
>>> shooter, and then 6 other people take out their guns...
>>>
>>> ...and then the trigger-happy police show up.
>>
>> Myself, I'm waiting for them to decide that age limits are
>> unconstitional, and then start to arm grade-schoolers.
>>
>> Won't /that/ be fun!
>
> When I was in high school in Texas, half of the kids had rifles
> or shotguns inside their trucks out in the high school parking
> lot. That was over 40 years ago though.

When I was in high school, it was more than that. There was a feral
dog problem (as in, enoguh they were running in packs, which will
come into your yard and eat your children), and it was considered
civic duty to shoot any stray dogs one might see outside of town.

The only reason they didn't have gun handling classes in the school
was that most kids had learned it at home before kindergarden.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

On 2021-06-18 2:54 p.m., Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 6/18/2021 9:22 AM, Jay E. Morris wrote:
>> On 6/18/2021 8:16 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> On Fri, 18 Jun 2021 04:55:48 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thursday, June 17, 2021 at 11:01:59 AM UTC-6, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> But, really, 18 people can be stabbed to death and there is no major
>>>>> outcry. Three get shot and its a national disaster.
>>>> Guns make it a lot easier for people to kill people.
>>>>
>>>> So if people are killed by the use of guns, these deaths could
>>>> perhaps have been*prevented*  if the killer had not had any
>>>> access to a gun. Of course there is an outcry when people die
>>>> as a result of government negligence.
>>> Or he might have blocked the doors and thrown in a Molotov and killed
>>> ten times as many
>>
>> UpStairs Lounge attack in New Orleans in 1973. Emergency exits jammed,
>> entrance firebombed. 36 dead.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UpStairs_Lounge_arson_attack
>
> "Bath School bombing".  45 dead including perpetrator, 58 injured in
> 1927 in Michigan.
>    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster
>
> "New London School explosion".  Accidental natural gas leak in 1937. 295
> dead, 300+ injured in Texas.
>    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_London_School_explosion
>
> Lynn
>

So you had to got back to 1927...

The other one doesn't even count.

On Friday, June 18, 2021 at 1:49:29 PM UTC-4, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> Alan Baker <notony...@no.no.no.no> wrote in
> news:saim7e$rt3$1...@dont-email.me:
> > On 2021-06-18 9:59 a.m., Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
> > wrote:
> >> "edstas...@gmail.com" <edstas...@gmail.com> wrote in
> >> news:4c5034ad-bc9b-4c2c...@googlegroups.com:
> >>
> >>>> Alan Baker
> >>>>> Lynn McGuire
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Texas is now the 21st Constitutional Carry State.
> >>>>
> >>>> Let the carnage commence.
> >>>
> >>> We’ve been hearing the same thing ever since Florida
> >>> introduce “shall issue” concealed carry back in 1987, yet
> >>> the U.S. murder rate continues to go down despite over 19
> >>> million Americans now carrying a concealed handgun.
> >>
> >> Except in places like New York City, where Democrats are in
> >> charge, and wipe their ass with the Contitution, especially the
> >> 2nd Amendment.
> >>
> >> There's shootings are up 70% since the pandemic started.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Not that you'll ever offer proof of that...
> >
> It's in the news every day. And you have *never* admitted when
> proof has been offered. You *always* lie, literally *every*
> *single* *time*.
>
> Go play your insane, childish games with somebody as stupid as you
> are, retard. Your stance advocating for more violent crime makes
> you, like Quaddie, literally a subhuman animal who should be put
> down as a matter of public safety.

Much as I hold my nose to support Terry, the stats are there.

Shootings in NYC

May 2018: 77
May 2019: 61
May 2020: 100
May 2021: 173

Sources:

https://www1.nyc.gov/site/nypd/news/p0604b/city-achieves-new-record-low-may-murder-shooting-incident-categories#/0

https://www1.nyc.gov/site/nypd/news/pr0603/nypd-citywide-crime-statistics-may-2021

Pt

On 18/06/21 9:28 am, Alan Baker wrote:
> On 2021-06-17 10:01 a.m., Paul S Person wrote:
snip
>> But, really, 18 people can be stabbed to death and there is no major
>> outcry. Three get shot and its a national disaster.
>
> When was the last time 18 people got stabbed in a single incident?
> How many mass shootings have there been this year?

In brief, it is illegal to carry a knife with a blade longer than 10 cms
in NZ. (Unless you have a reason, eg work implement, hunting.)
Despite strict gun ownership licensing, we still have 2 point 4 gun
related deaths per million p.a. (The USA has 106.)

On 19/06/2021 04:55, Wolffan wrote:
> On 2021 Jun 18, Quadibloc wrote
> (in article<ac6cb5d8-8afc-4121-88a9-e9a0a25ebb46n@googlegroups.com>):
>
>> On Thursday, June 17, 2021 at 3:29:26 PM UTC-6, Alan Baker wrote:
>>> On 2021-06-17 2:18 p.m., edstas...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>> If guns were the problem then the murder rate would be more or less
>>>> the same across the country, instead of being concentrated in the
>>>> same inner cities year after year and ought to be astronomically
>>>> higher today.
>>
>>> Nope. That doesn't follow.
>>
>> Oh, it _does_ follow. Guns aren't "the problem". If peaceful law-abiding
>> citizens owned guns in greater numbers, this would not greatly increase
>> crime using guns.
>>
>> The principal cause of crime is, after all, criminals.
>>
>> The case for gun control is a bit more difficult to make.
>
> Gun control Will Not Bloody Work. It’s not just my opinion, it’s
> demonstrable.
>
[SNIP]
Worked perfectly well here in Oz.

Violent crimes committed with guns are down, with no increase in
knife/brick/hand grenade usage.

Domestic violence using guns is down. (But, sadly, DV is on the
increase, although some of the rozzers I know put some/a lot of that
down to them taking it more seriously, and being *trained* in what to
do, so it gets reported more often. And COVID-19.)

The suicide rate of farmers, in general, is down, and noticeably the
number where a gun is used are down.

And we haven't had a three year-old kill a family member with an
unsecured firearm in, oh, forever.

Of course, Australians aren't barbarian morons who need a gun to
compensate for their general uselessness. [OBSF - Wizards and Swords.]

Cheers,
Gary B-)
--
Waiting for a new signature to suggest itself...

In article <XnsAD4D6470411E7taustingmail@85.12.62.232>,
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:

> Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
> news:rbvmcgh362gtsbee86tjvkm5scci71j4j4@4ax.com:
>
> > On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 17:42:17 -0400, Jonathan <LSA@UMich.edu>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>The Second Amendment is written in stone and it
> >>gives us the right to bear arms.
> >
> > It is /not/ "written in stone". Prohibition was reversed, and so
> > could this one be, at least in theory.
> >
> > And it might be, not reversed, but amended in turn, to "clarify"
> > it, if that appears to be needed.
> >
> > And, of course, provided the votes can be found. Which seems
> > unlikely, I'll admit.
>
> A point he made later on in his post, in the part you snipped out.
> And he's right. The odds of getting 2/3 of the states to agree to an
> amendment that does not *expand* the right during our lifetimes is
> zero.

Terry, it takes 2/3rds of both the House of Representatives and the
Senate to propose a constitutional amendment and3/4ths of the states to
ratify it. And in this case, that is about as likely as the Sun rising
in West.

--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
�-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com

On Sat, 19 Jun 2021 13:58:42 +1000, "Gary R. Schmidt"
<grschmidt@acm.org> wrote:

>On 19/06/2021 04:55, Wolffan wrote:
>> On 2021 Jun 18, Quadibloc wrote
>> (in article<ac6cb5d8-8afc-4121-88a9-e9a0a25ebb46n@googlegroups.com>):
>>
>>> On Thursday, June 17, 2021 at 3:29:26 PM UTC-6, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>> On 2021-06-17 2:18 p.m., edstas...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>>> If guns were the problem then the murder rate would be more or less
>>>>> the same across the country, instead of being concentrated in the
>>>>> same inner cities year after year and ought to be astronomically
>>>>> higher today.
>>>
>>>> Nope. That doesn't follow.
>>>
>>> Oh, it _does_ follow. Guns aren't "the problem". If peaceful law-abiding
>>> citizens owned guns in greater numbers, this would not greatly increase
>>> crime using guns.
>>>
>>> The principal cause of crime is, after all, criminals.
>>>
>>> The case for gun control is a bit more difficult to make.
>>
>> Gun control Will Not Bloody Work. It’s not just my opinion, it’s
>> demonstrable.
>>
>[SNIP]
>Worked perfectly well here in Oz.

The same way my can of elephant repellant works in Connecticut. Since
I got my elephant repellant I haven't seen a single elepehant, so that
solved the elephant problem real good.
>
>Violent crimes committed with guns are down, with no increase in
>knife/brick/hand grenade usage.

Down from what to what?

>Domestic violence using guns is down. (But, sadly, DV is on the
>increase, although some of the rozzers I know put some/a lot of that
>down to them taking it more seriously, and being *trained* in what to
>do, so it gets reported more often. And COVID-19.)

Down from what to what?

>The suicide rate of farmers, in general, is down, and noticeably the
>number where a gun is used are down.

Down from what to what?

>And we haven't had a three year-old kill a family member with an
>unsecured firearm in, oh, forever.

So how many did you have per year before your gun laws?

>Of course, Australians aren't barbarian morons who need a gun to
>compensate for their general uselessness. [OBSF - Wizards and Swords.]

If they aren't barbarian morons then why can't they be trusted with
weapons?

On 19/06/2021 19:22, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Jun 2021 13:58:42 +1000, "Gary R. Schmidt"
> <grschmidt@acm.org> wrote:
>
>> On 19/06/2021 04:55, Wolffan wrote:
>>> On 2021 Jun 18, Quadibloc wrote
>>> (in article<ac6cb5d8-8afc-4121-88a9-e9a0a25ebb46n@googlegroups.com>):
>>>
>>>> On Thursday, June 17, 2021 at 3:29:26 PM UTC-6, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>>> On 2021-06-17 2:18 p.m., edstas...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> If guns were the problem then the murder rate would be more or less
>>>>>> the same across the country, instead of being concentrated in the
>>>>>> same inner cities year after year and ought to be astronomically
>>>>>> higher today.
>>>>
>>>>> Nope. That doesn't follow.
>>>>
>>>> Oh, it _does_ follow. Guns aren't "the problem". If peaceful law-abiding
>>>> citizens owned guns in greater numbers, this would not greatly increase
>>>> crime using guns.
>>>>
>>>> The principal cause of crime is, after all, criminals.
>>>>
>>>> The case for gun control is a bit more difficult to make.
>>>
>>> Gun control Will Not Bloody Work. It’s not just my opinion, it’s
>>> demonstrable.
>>>
>> [SNIP]
>> Worked perfectly well here in Oz.
>
> The same way my can of elephant repellant works in Connecticut. Since
> I got my elephant repellant I haven't seen a single elepehant, so that
> solved the elephant problem real good.
>>
>> Violent crimes committed with guns are down, with no increase in
>> knife/brick/hand grenade usage.
>
> Down from what to what?
>
>> Domestic violence using guns is down. (But, sadly, DV is on the
>> increase, although some of the rozzers I know put some/a lot of that
>> down to them taking it more seriously, and being *trained* in what to
>> do, so it gets reported more often. And COVID-19.)
>
> Down from what to what?
>
>> The suicide rate of farmers, in general, is down, and noticeably the
>> number where a gun is used are down.
>
> Down from what to what?
>
>> And we haven't had a three year-old kill a family member with an
>> unsecured firearm in, oh, forever.
>
> So how many did you have per year before your gun laws?
>
>> Of course, Australians aren't barbarian morons who need a gun to
>> compensate for their general uselessness. [OBSF - Wizards and Swords.]
>
> If they aren't barbarian morons then why can't they be trusted with
> weapons?
>
Here's a general answer:
<https://www.jcu.edu.au/news/releases/2018/october/tough-laws-prevent-gun-deaths>
- "“In Australia we went from 614 firearm deaths in 1990 to 274 in 2016".

Cheers,
Gary B-)

--
Waiting for a new signature to suggest itself...

On Sat, 19 Jun 2021 23:38:51 +1000, "Gary R. Schmidt"
<grschmidt@acm.org> wrote:

>On 19/06/2021 19:22, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Sat, 19 Jun 2021 13:58:42 +1000, "Gary R. Schmidt"
>> <grschmidt@acm.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 19/06/2021 04:55, Wolffan wrote:
>>>> On 2021 Jun 18, Quadibloc wrote
>>>> (in article<ac6cb5d8-8afc-4121-88a9-e9a0a25ebb46n@googlegroups.com>):
>>>>
>>>>> On Thursday, June 17, 2021 at 3:29:26 PM UTC-6, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>>>> On 2021-06-17 2:18 p.m., edstas...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> If guns were the problem then the murder rate would be more or less
>>>>>>> the same across the country, instead of being concentrated in the
>>>>>>> same inner cities year after year and ought to be astronomically
>>>>>>> higher today.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Nope. That doesn't follow.
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh, it _does_ follow. Guns aren't "the problem". If peaceful law-abiding
>>>>> citizens owned guns in greater numbers, this would not greatly increase
>>>>> crime using guns.
>>>>>
>>>>> The principal cause of crime is, after all, criminals.
>>>>>
>>>>> The case for gun control is a bit more difficult to make.
>>>>
>>>> Gun control Will Not Bloody Work. It’s not just my opinion, it’s
>>>> demonstrable.
>>>>
>>> [SNIP]
>>> Worked perfectly well here in Oz.
>>
>> The same way my can of elephant repellant works in Connecticut. Since
>> I got my elephant repellant I haven't seen a single elepehant, so that
>> solved the elephant problem real good.
>>>
>>> Violent crimes committed with guns are down, with no increase in
>>> knife/brick/hand grenade usage.
>>
>> Down from what to what?
>>
>>> Domestic violence using guns is down. (But, sadly, DV is on the
>>> increase, although some of the rozzers I know put some/a lot of that
>>> down to them taking it more seriously, and being *trained* in what to
>>> do, so it gets reported more often. And COVID-19.)
>>
>> Down from what to what?
>>
>>> The suicide rate of farmers, in general, is down, and noticeably the
>>> number where a gun is used are down.
>>
>> Down from what to what?
>>
>>> And we haven't had a three year-old kill a family member with an
>>> unsecured firearm in, oh, forever.
>>
>> So how many did you have per year before your gun laws?
>>
>>> Of course, Australians aren't barbarian morons who need a gun to
>>> compensate for their general uselessness. [OBSF - Wizards and Swords.]
>>
>> If they aren't barbarian morons then why can't they be trusted with
>> weapons?
>>
>Here's a general answer:
><https://www.jcu.edu.au/news/releases/2018/october/tough-laws-prevent-gun-deaths>
>- "“In Australia we went from 614 firearm deaths in 1990 to 274 in 2016".

In other words you went from nothing to nothing. You didn't have a
problem that needed to be fixed but you fixed it anyway.

On Friday, June 18, 2021 at 3:01:59 AM UTC+10, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Jun 2021 05:21:48 -0700 (PDT), "edstas...@gmail.com"
> <edstas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Jonathan
> >>
> >> Yet, republicans go on and on like the right
> >> might evaporate tomorrow. It's called a
> >> wedge issue, used only to rile up the
> >> uninformed base, but has no basis in reality.
> >
> >Because the 2nd Amendment is continually under attack.
> >
> >Prior to the early 1980s, the NRA was strictly a hobbyist
> >organization, they were forced to become politically active
> >because of the ever more draconian gun control laws being
> >passed at the time (despite these laws having no effect on
> >crime).
>
> And now it is being investigated as a criminal organization, and gives
> off all the classic signs of an organization run for the benefit of
> the leaders.
>
> I don't like gun nuts; they are boring. But they deserve better than
> to see the NRA self-destruct.
>
> >And everytime a Dem gets in the White House, they propose
> >a whole raft of back-door (and up-front) gun bans, Biden did
> >just that when he entered the race for President.
> >
> >https://joebiden.com/gunsafety/
> >
> >There is no point where anti-gun fundies will ever say;
> >"that's enough gun control".
>
> Now /that/ I agree with.
>
> Not that there aren't a few restrictions (such as on "ghost guns" and
> weapon shops that regularly supply local criminals) that might not
> reasonably be applied.
>
> But, really, 18 people can be stabbed to death and there is no major
> outcry. Three get shot and its a national disaster.

Might have something to do with the fact that there's been 247 mass shootings in the USA so far in 2021

> Hamish Laws
> > Paul S Person
> >
> > But, really, 18 people can be stabbed to death and there is no major
> > outcry. Three get shot and its a national disaster.
>
> Might have something to do with the fact that there's been 247 mass
> shootings in the USA so far in 2021

"Mass shootings" are just the latest propaganda tactic used by the Mainstream
Media, which ignores that most mass shootings are committed by Blacks and/or
writes them off as "gang related shootings" (at the same time, including them
in nation wide figures) while giving undue attention to the vanishingly rare White
kook who shoots up a school.

HALF the murders in the U.S. are committed by Blacks who are only 15% of the
population but the numbers are actually worse then that when you discount Black
women, old Black men and children, at which point we’re looking at 2-3% of the
U.S. population committing half the murders in the county.

The problem isn't guns, (the White murder rate in the U.S. is on-par with Canada
and Belgium) the problem is the post-1960s culture of machismo among young
Black men, who resort to whipping out a gun and shooting at the drop of a hat.

On 2021-06-17 10:55 a.m., Paul S Person wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 17:42:17 -0400, Jonathan <LSA@UMich.edu> wrote:
>
>> The Second Amendment is written in stone and it
>> gives us the right to bear arms.
>
> It is /not/ "written in stone". Prohibition was reversed, and so could
> this one be, at least in theory.
>
> And it might be, not reversed, but amended in turn, to "clarify" it,
> if that appears to be needed.
>
> And, of course, provided the votes can be found. Which seems unlikely,
> I'll admit.
>

When something is written in stone you could take a belt sander to it
and erase the writing. That would be easier than getting those votes
which is actually impossible.

On Saturday, June 19, 2021 at 7:55:17 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Jun 2021 23:38:51 +1000, "Gary R. Schmidt"
> <grsc...@acm.org> wrote:
> >Here's a general answer:
> ><https://www.jcu.edu.au/news/releases/2018/october/tough-laws-prevent-gun-deaths>
> >- "“In Australia we went from 614 firearm deaths in 1990 to 274 in 2016".

> In other words you went from nothing to nothing. You didn't have a
> problem that needed to be fixed but you fixed it anyway.

Since every single human life is of immense value, they did, in fact, address a major and
serious problem. The fact that some other countries have an even worse problem, but
refuse to take action against it is not a valid criticism of Australia.

John Savard