Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
news:ih6scgh350t28mq13a13l4jvjb1o5llmgq@4ax.com:

> On Fri, 18 Jun 2021 18:18:52 -0700 (PDT), "pete...@gmail.com"
> <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Friday, June 18, 2021 at 1:49:29 PM UTC-4, Jibini Kula
>>Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>> Alan Baker <notony...@no.no.no.no> wrote in
>>> news:saim7e$rt3$1...@dont-email.me:
>>> > On 2021-06-18 9:59 a.m., Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
>>> > wrote:
>>> >> "edstas...@gmail.com" <edstas...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>> >> news:4c5034ad-bc9b-4c2c...@googlegroups.com:
>>> >>
>>> >>>> Alan Baker
>>> >>>>> Lynn McGuire
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Texas is now the 21st Constitutional Carry State.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Let the carnage commence.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> We�ve been hearing the same thing ever since Florida
>>> >>> introduce �shall issue� concealed carry back in 1987, yet
>>> >>> the U.S. murder rate continues to go down despite over 19
>>> >>> million Americans now carrying a concealed handgun.
>>> >>
>>> >> Except in places like New York City, where Democrats are in
>>> >> charge, and wipe their ass with the Contitution, especially
>>> >> the 2nd Amendment.
>>> >>
>>> >> There's shootings are up 70% since the pandemic started.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > Not that you'll ever offer proof of that...
>>> >
>>> It's in the news every day. And you have *never* admitted when
>>> proof has been offered. You *always* lie, literally *every*
>>> *single* *time*.
>>>
>>> Go play your insane, childish games with somebody as stupid as
>>> you are, retard. Your stance advocating for more violent crime
>>> makes you, like Quaddie, literally a subhuman animal who
>>> should be put down as a matter of public safety.
>>
>>Much as I hold my nose to support Terry, the stats are there.
>>
>>Shootings in NYC
>>
>>May 2018: 77
>>May 2019: 61
>>May 2020: 100
>>May 2021: 173
>>
>>Sources:
>>
>>https://www1.nyc.gov/site/nypd/news/p0604b/city-achieves-new-reco
>>rd-low-may-murder-shooting-incident-categories#/0
>>
>>https://www1.nyc.gov/site/nypd/news/pr0603/nypd-citywide-crime-st
>>atistics-may-2021
>
> But does this correlate to new Gun Laws?
>
> Or is it possible that /something else/ is causing this?
>
> Cabin fever from the pandemic, perhaps?

No, it correlates to the stress of the pandemic feeding the general
lawlessness of the BLM and Antifa insurgents, who are openly
supported and protected by the Demorats who run NYC. While the
latter are not, technically speaking, new gun laws (why on earth
would you feel the need to capitalize that? do you literally
worhsip unconstitutional, murderous gun laws?), they are the same
thing, brought on by the same fascist ideology, which *must* break
down social order and the rule of law before they can seize power.

If you remove the name, the recent history of the left and the
history of the rise of power of the Nazi party in Germany in the
20s is identical. Largely, I expect, because they're using that
history as a textbook.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
news:lc6scghije416i0fppiuv1b5k13n542ugc@4ax.com:

> On Fri, 18 Jun 2021 10:14:38 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
> Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>"edstas...@gmail.com" <edstasiak1067@gmail.com> wrote in
>>news:62488d91-7af7-4fff-b687-53ae4bdd31c7n@googlegroups.com:
>>
>>> There is no point where anti-gun fundies will ever say;
>>> "that's enough gun control".
>>>
>>That's simply not true. "Enough gun control" is when they have
>>all teh guns, and can kill anyone they want at any time for no
>>reason without fear of any consequences. They've made that
>>*very* clear.
>
> Ah.
>
> Texas.
>
> Good point.

And yet, with 20 other states have passed similar laws, there has
been no great increase of violent crime, gun or otherwise.

In all seriousness, dude, you need psychiatric help. You are
literally hallucinating, in ways that could cause you great harm, or
lead you to hurt others. Get that help before the decision is no
longer yours.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
news:d16scgl9js7as1hhe1rahubhkf0d7j0oei@4ax.com:

> On Fri, 18 Jun 2021 10:15:34 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
> Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
>>news:qnvmcghu36v1eicpcfhjbv5lv0hji2rbao@4ax.com:
>>
>>> And now it is being investigated as a criminal organization,
>>> and gives off all the classic signs of an organization run for
>>> the benefit of the leaders.
>>>
>>Or so claims the political appointee with a very overt agenda in
>>New York State. If he claimed there are seven days in the week,
>>I'd toss all my calandars under the assumption they're liberal
>>propaganda.
>
> It is my impression that a certain Bankruptcy Court judge in
> Texas reached much the same conclusion when the NRA tried to
> declare bankruptcy there to hide assets from the guy in New
> York.

When the government ignores the law, their intended victims tend to
do the same, yes.
>
> BTW, I think the NRA /should/ relocate to Texas. It would be a
> much better fit for them than New York.

Texas is a much better for for living a decent life, certainly.
Other than the heat, of course.
>
> Well, provided some part of it survives the current storm,
> anyway.

Which storm is that? The complete, utter lack of any increase in
violent crime? That storm? I doubt they're worried.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
news:02a0c151-065a-4ce8-9a84-dca2c8c5cc8bn@googlegroups.com:

> On Friday, June 18, 2021 at 2:35:39 PM UTC-6, Jibini Kula
> Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>
>> Gun control isn't about guns, it's about control. Namely, those
>> who advocate it want to control all the guns, so they can kill
>> at will without fear of consequence.
>
> While I think

There's no evenece that has *ever* happened. All you do is parrot
the propaganda you've been spoon fed by your masters.

> this statement is false on at least one level:
>
> Most of the people advocating gun control are sincerely
> concerned about mass shootings,

Most of the people talking about it are, like you, mindless sheep
parroting what they've been spoon fed. The ones who *write* the
proganda are the ones who are in the process of staging a fascist
coup.

>and they see that these happen
> much less often in countries with gun controls, and therefore
> they conclude it is likely an effective measure.

But they ignore that Americans are more violent in every other
measureable way, as well, and that gun control laws have a much
more consistent correlation with *more* violent crime, not less.
Because the propagandists ignore it.
>
> But that what you state might be the "real" goal of some
> sinister figures who are leading or encouraging the movement...
> is at least possible.

There's really no other rational conclusion one can reach any more.
There's *decades* of peer reviewed research on the subject. One has
to be literally delusional to not understand that guns are used 2-
10 times as often to prevent crime as to commit it. Ergo, either
the people writing the proganda are literally mentally ill to the
point of being unable to interact with reality, or their *goal*
*must* be more violent crime.
>
> Where there _is_ a genuine need for self-defense, concealed
> carry laws are indeed likely to do more to reduce the kinds of
> crime that most people fear than any gun control measures.

There is peer reviewed research to suppor that, but only in places
where concealed carry is of a constitutional nature, i.e., "shall
issue" laws where essentially anybody who can legally own a gun can
get a permit (or not need one).
>
> Thus, I would like to have both...
>
> a concealed carry law for the sensible law-abiding citizen,

Which is nearly everyone.
>
> but restrictions on who can have a gun similar to your country's
> existing ones for fully-automatic weapons to keep guns out of
> the hands of those who are unsuited for them. Just without the
> $200 application fee.

Only a retard could possibly believe that such laws would not be
used to disarm the politically undesirable. I say this because such
laws *have* been used that way. Always. You've just advocated for
some of the most murderous *racist* laws in US history, in fact.

But your views on the less subspecies are well established. The
only difference here is you're not advocating nuking them for being
brown.
>
> But the real cause of the United States having so much more
> crime than some other countries is, of course, the existence of
> a large group of people experiencing inequality. A natioinal
> commitment to correct this problem, however, is lacking.
>
Typical fascist proganda from the left. You're a good little
soldier. Now have a cookie and go to bed.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) wrote in
news:ij6r85FervdU1@mid.individual.net:

> We may live to see the end of this thread.

I suspect it would be possible to work out a mathematical proof that
that is, in fact, impossible.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

On Friday, June 18, 2021 at 1:14:43 PM UTC-4, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> "edstas...@gmail.com" <edstas...@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:62488d91-7af7-4fff...@googlegroups.com:
> > There is no point where anti-gun fundies will ever say;
> > "that's enough gun control".
> >
> That's simply not true. "Enough gun control" is when they have all
> teh guns, and can kill anyone they want at any time for no reason
> without fear of any consequences. They've made that *very* clear.
> --

Then it's time for "sword control."

{As the peasants turn farming tools into pikes, or bills.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_(weapon) }
--
Kevin R

On Sat, 19 Jun 2021 23:38:51 +1000, Gary R. Schmidt wrote:

> On 19/06/2021 19:22, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Sat, 19 Jun 2021 13:58:42 +1000, "Gary R. Schmidt"
>> <grschmidt@acm.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 19/06/2021 04:55, Wolffan wrote:
>>>> On 2021 Jun 18, Quadibloc wrote (in
>>>> article<ac6cb5d8-8afc-4121-88a9-e9a0a25ebb46n@googlegroups.com>):
>>>>
>>>>> On Thursday, June 17, 2021 at 3:29:26 PM UTC-6, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>>>> On 2021-06-17 2:18 p.m., edstas...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> If guns were the problem then the murder rate would be more or
>>>>>>> less the same across the country, instead of being concentrated in
>>>>>>> the same inner cities year after year and ought to be
>>>>>>> astronomically higher today.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Nope. That doesn't follow.
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh, it _does_ follow. Guns aren't "the problem". If peaceful
>>>>> law-abiding citizens owned guns in greater numbers, this would not
>>>>> greatly increase crime using guns.
>>>>>
>>>>> The principal cause of crime is, after all, criminals.
>>>>>
>>>>> The case for gun control is a bit more difficult to make.
>>>>
>>>> Gun control Will Not Bloody Work. It’s not just my opinion, it’s
>>>> demonstrable.
>>>>
>>> [SNIP]
>>> Worked perfectly well here in Oz.
>>
>> The same way my can of elephant repellant works in Connecticut. Since
>> I got my elephant repellant I haven't seen a single elepehant, so that
>> solved the elephant problem real good.
>>>
>>> Violent crimes committed with guns are down, with no increase in
>>> knife/brick/hand grenade usage.
>>
>> Down from what to what?
>>
>>> Domestic violence using guns is down. (But, sadly, DV is on the
>>> increase, although some of the rozzers I know put some/a lot of that
>>> down to them taking it more seriously, and being *trained* in what to
>>> do, so it gets reported more often. And COVID-19.)
>>
>> Down from what to what?
>>
>>> The suicide rate of farmers, in general, is down, and noticeably the
>>> number where a gun is used are down.
>>
>> Down from what to what?
>>
>>> And we haven't had a three year-old kill a family member with an
>>> unsecured firearm in, oh, forever.
>>
>> So how many did you have per year before your gun laws?
>>
>>> Of course, Australians aren't barbarian morons who need a gun to
>>> compensate for their general uselessness. [OBSF - Wizards and
>>> Swords.]
>>
>> If they aren't barbarian morons then why can't they be trusted with
>> weapons?
>>
> Here's a general answer:
> <https://www.jcu.edu.au/news/releases/2018/october/tough-laws-prevent-
gun-deaths>
> - "“In Australia we went from 614 firearm deaths in 1990 to 274 in
> 2016".
>
> Cheers,
> Gary B-)
Not being a US citizen I must assume that you are unaware that the US
also saw a huge drop in firearm deaths over the same period,while
drowning in guns.

> Quadibloc
> > Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> >
> > Gun control isn't about guns, it's about control. Namely, those who
> > advocate it want to control all the guns, so they can kill at will
> > without fear of consequence.
>
> Most of the people advocating gun control are sincerely concerned about
> mass shootings, and they see that these happen much less often in countries
> with gun controls, and therefore they conclude it is likely an effective measure.

If that was true, then anti-gunners wouldn't be ignoring statistics and research
compiled over decades, that shows gun control either does nothing to reduce
crime or actually contributes to an increase, as the already law abiding victims
of crime (the only ones who comply with gun laws) are stripped of their ability
to defend themselves.

> but restrictions on who can have a gun similar to your country's existing ones
> for fully-automatic weapons to keep guns out of the hands of those who are
> unsuited for them. Just without the $200 application fee.

IIRC, there has only been one case of a legally owned full-auto weapon being
used in a crime and it was committed by a cop moon-lighting as a bank robber.

> But the real cause of the United States having so much more crime than some
> other countries is, of course, the existence of a large group of people experiencing
> inequality. A natioinal commitment to correct this problem, however, is lacking.

I'd say the root of the problem is cultural, as poor people prior to the implementation
of gun control in the U.S. in the 1960s weren't killing each other in record numbers.

If the problem was economics, then why isn't Appalachia (the poorest region in the
U.S.) not knee deep in blood?

> Paul S Person
> > Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
> >
> >Shootings in NYC
> >
> >May 2018: 77
> >May 2019: 61
> >May 2020: 100
> >May 2021: 173
>
> But does this correlate to new Gun Laws?
>
> Or is it possible that /something else/ is causing this?
>
> Cabin fever from the pandemic, perhaps?

The statistics show that NYC’s strict anti-gun laws, which were imposed back
in the late 1800s, have had no observable effect on crime.

https://ibb.co/RcxwHmL

On 2021-06-19 1:59 p.m., Magewolf wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Jun 2021 23:38:51 +1000, Gary R. Schmidt wrote:
>
>> On 19/06/2021 19:22, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> On Sat, 19 Jun 2021 13:58:42 +1000, "Gary R. Schmidt"
>>> <grschmidt@acm.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 19/06/2021 04:55, Wolffan wrote:
>>>>> On 2021 Jun 18, Quadibloc wrote (in
>>>>> article<ac6cb5d8-8afc-4121-88a9-e9a0a25ebb46n@googlegroups.com>):
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thursday, June 17, 2021 at 3:29:26 PM UTC-6, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2021-06-17 2:18 p.m., edstas...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If guns were the problem then the murder rate would be more or
>>>>>>>> less the same across the country, instead of being concentrated in
>>>>>>>> the same inner cities year after year and ought to be
>>>>>>>> astronomically higher today.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nope. That doesn't follow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh, it _does_ follow. Guns aren't "the problem". If peaceful
>>>>>> law-abiding citizens owned guns in greater numbers, this would not
>>>>>> greatly increase crime using guns.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The principal cause of crime is, after all, criminals.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The case for gun control is a bit more difficult to make.
>>>>>
>>>>> Gun control Will Not Bloody Work. It’s not just my opinion, it’s
>>>>> demonstrable.
>>>>>
>>>> [SNIP]
>>>> Worked perfectly well here in Oz.
>>>
>>> The same way my can of elephant repellant works in Connecticut. Since
>>> I got my elephant repellant I haven't seen a single elepehant, so that
>>> solved the elephant problem real good.
>>>>
>>>> Violent crimes committed with guns are down, with no increase in
>>>> knife/brick/hand grenade usage.
>>>
>>> Down from what to what?
>>>
>>>> Domestic violence using guns is down. (But, sadly, DV is on the
>>>> increase, although some of the rozzers I know put some/a lot of that
>>>> down to them taking it more seriously, and being *trained* in what to
>>>> do, so it gets reported more often. And COVID-19.)
>>>
>>> Down from what to what?
>>>
>>>> The suicide rate of farmers, in general, is down, and noticeably the
>>>> number where a gun is used are down.
>>>
>>> Down from what to what?
>>>
>>>> And we haven't had a three year-old kill a family member with an
>>>> unsecured firearm in, oh, forever.
>>>
>>> So how many did you have per year before your gun laws?
>>>
>>>> Of course, Australians aren't barbarian morons who need a gun to
>>>> compensate for their general uselessness. [OBSF - Wizards and
>>>> Swords.]
>>>
>>> If they aren't barbarian morons then why can't they be trusted with
>>> weapons?
>>>
>> Here's a general answer:
>> <https://www.jcu.edu.au/news/releases/2018/october/tough-laws-prevent-
> gun-deaths>
>> - "“In Australia we went from 614 firearm deaths in 1990 to 274 in
>> 2016".
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Gary B-)
> Not being a US citizen I must assume that you are unaware that the US
> also saw a huge drop in firearm deaths over the same period,while
> drowning in guns.

"Huge"? Got a cite for that?

Because I'm willing to bet that the drop (if it exists at all) will be
far, far less than the factor of 2.24 that Australia saw.

Thrill us all and show how US firearms deaths fell by more than 50%.

On 6/19/2021 3:10 PM, edstas...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> If the problem was economics, then why isn't Appalachia (the poorest region in the
> U.S.) not knee deep in blood?
>
Because all the clan *ahem* excuse me, gang warfare there ended a
hundred or so years ago when enough of the clans^H^H^H^H^H gangs had
been exterminated.

--
Troll, troll, troll your post gently down the thread
Angrily, angrily, angrily, the net's a nut's scream.

On Saturday, June 19, 2021 at 2:18:50 PM UTC-4, Wolffan wrote:
> On 2021 Jun 19, J. Clarke wrote
> (in article<6a9scgd8qtfq244pv...@4ax.com>):
> > On Sat, 19 Jun 2021 09:36:55 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob<kev...@my-deja.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On Friday, June 18, 2021 at 12:16:03 PM UTC-4, Robert Carnegie wrote:
> > > > On Friday, 18 June 2021 at 15:31:05 UTC+1, Alan Baker wrote:
> > >
> > > [snip]
> > >
> > > > > ...and then the trigger-happy police show up.
> > > > Kind of like this story.
> > > >
> > > > <https://notalwaysright.com/loyalty-thy-name-is-dog/237505/>
> > > >
> > > > Local police collect a student from school and take him
> > > > to his home. It turns out that a burglar got chased up a
> > > > tree in the yard by the family dog - on his way /out/ of
> > > > the house, so, good dog, but...
> > > >
> > > > The neighbour has called the police, and one officer goes
> > > > to arrest the guy in the tree. The dog isn't on the same
> > > > page and he chases the officer up the tree.
> > > >
> > > > The student is brought in just in time to prevent another
> > > > police officer from shooting his dog.
> > > >
> > > > Tagged "Funny".
> > >
> > > Wow. In a larger town, the cops would have shot the dog.
> >
> > And if they were feds they'd have shot the kid too.
> only if the kid was black.

But not if perceived as "Hispanic/Latino" nor "white trash?"
I have my doubts.

--
Kevin R

On Saturday, June 19, 2021 at 5:22:24 AM UTC-4, J. Clarke wrote:

[snip]

> The same way my can of elephant repellant works in Connecticut. Since
> I got my elephant repellant I haven't seen a single elepehant, so that
> solved the elephant problem real good.
> >

Well, since Mr Barnum died, and the successors to his
circus (the Ringling Bros) took to wintering the circus
in Sarasota, FL.....

ObSF: Barry Longyears's "Circus World" books.

--
Kevin R

On Sat, 19 Jun 2021 18:11:12 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com>
wrote:

>On Saturday, June 19, 2021 at 2:18:50 PM UTC-4, Wolffan wrote:
>> On 2021 Jun 19, J. Clarke wrote
>> (in article<6a9scgd8qtfq244pv...@4ax.com>):
>> > On Sat, 19 Jun 2021 09:36:55 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob<kev...@my-deja.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > On Friday, June 18, 2021 at 12:16:03 PM UTC-4, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>> > > > On Friday, 18 June 2021 at 15:31:05 UTC+1, Alan Baker wrote:
>> > >
>> > > [snip]
>> > >
>> > > > > ...and then the trigger-happy police show up.
>> > > > Kind of like this story.
>> > > >
>> > > > <https://notalwaysright.com/loyalty-thy-name-is-dog/237505/>
>> > > >
>> > > > Local police collect a student from school and take him
>> > > > to his home. It turns out that a burglar got chased up a
>> > > > tree in the yard by the family dog - on his way /out/ of
>> > > > the house, so, good dog, but...
>> > > >
>> > > > The neighbour has called the police, and one officer goes
>> > > > to arrest the guy in the tree. The dog isn't on the same
>> > > > page and he chases the officer up the tree.
>> > > >
>> > > > The student is brought in just in time to prevent another
>> > > > police officer from shooting his dog.
>> > > >
>> > > > Tagged "Funny".
>> > >
>> > > Wow. In a larger town, the cops would have shot the dog.
>> >
>> > And if they were feds they'd have shot the kid too.
>> only if the kid was black.
>
>But not if perceived as "Hispanic/Latino" nor "white trash?"
>I have my doubts.

No, the BAT-men are equal-opportunity baby-killers. They don't care
what color you are, if they think they can get away with killing you
they will.

On 19/06/2021 23:55, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Jun 2021 23:38:51 +1000, "Gary R. Schmidt"
> <grschmidt@acm.org> wrote:
>
>> On 19/06/2021 19:22, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> On Sat, 19 Jun 2021 13:58:42 +1000, "Gary R. Schmidt"
>>> <grschmidt@acm.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 19/06/2021 04:55, Wolffan wrote:
>>>>> On 2021 Jun 18, Quadibloc wrote
>>>>> (in article<ac6cb5d8-8afc-4121-88a9-e9a0a25ebb46n@googlegroups.com>):
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thursday, June 17, 2021 at 3:29:26 PM UTC-6, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2021-06-17 2:18 p.m., edstas...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If guns were the problem then the murder rate would be more or less
>>>>>>>> the same across the country, instead of being concentrated in the
>>>>>>>> same inner cities year after year and ought to be astronomically
>>>>>>>> higher today.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nope. That doesn't follow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh, it _does_ follow. Guns aren't "the problem". If peaceful law-abiding
>>>>>> citizens owned guns in greater numbers, this would not greatly increase
>>>>>> crime using guns.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The principal cause of crime is, after all, criminals.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The case for gun control is a bit more difficult to make.
>>>>>
>>>>> Gun control Will Not Bloody Work. It’s not just my opinion, it’s
>>>>> demonstrable.
>>>>>
>>>> [SNIP]
>>>> Worked perfectly well here in Oz.
>>>
>>> The same way my can of elephant repellant works in Connecticut. Since
>>> I got my elephant repellant I haven't seen a single elepehant, so that
>>> solved the elephant problem real good.
>>>>
>>>> Violent crimes committed with guns are down, with no increase in
>>>> knife/brick/hand grenade usage.
>>>
>>> Down from what to what?
>>>
>>>> Domestic violence using guns is down. (But, sadly, DV is on the
>>>> increase, although some of the rozzers I know put some/a lot of that
>>>> down to them taking it more seriously, and being *trained* in what to
>>>> do, so it gets reported more often. And COVID-19.)
>>>
>>> Down from what to what?
>>>
>>>> The suicide rate of farmers, in general, is down, and noticeably the
>>>> number where a gun is used are down.
>>>
>>> Down from what to what?
>>>
>>>> And we haven't had a three year-old kill a family member with an
>>>> unsecured firearm in, oh, forever.
>>>
>>> So how many did you have per year before your gun laws?
>>>
>>>> Of course, Australians aren't barbarian morons who need a gun to
>>>> compensate for their general uselessness. [OBSF - Wizards and Swords.]
>>>
>>> If they aren't barbarian morons then why can't they be trusted with
>>> weapons?
>>>
>> Here's a general answer:
>> <https://www.jcu.edu.au/news/releases/2018/october/tough-laws-prevent-gun-deaths>
>> - "“In Australia we went from 614 firearm deaths in 1990 to 274 in 2016".
>
> In other words you went from nothing to nothing. You didn't have a
> problem that needed to be fixed but you fixed it anyway.
>
That. Is . Just. Disgusting.

And proof, if we needed any more, that in the USA, it is true that no
lives matter.

And although I rarely publicise it, this piece of trash is now in the
permanent kill file.

Cheers,
Gary B-)

--
Waiting for a new signature to suggest itself...

On 20/06/2021 06:59, Magewolf wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Jun 2021 23:38:51 +1000, Gary R. Schmidt wrote:
>
>> On 19/06/2021 19:22, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> On Sat, 19 Jun 2021 13:58:42 +1000, "Gary R. Schmidt"
>>> <grschmidt@acm.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 19/06/2021 04:55, Wolffan wrote:
>>>>> On 2021 Jun 18, Quadibloc wrote (in
>>>>> article<ac6cb5d8-8afc-4121-88a9-e9a0a25ebb46n@googlegroups.com>):
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thursday, June 17, 2021 at 3:29:26 PM UTC-6, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2021-06-17 2:18 p.m., edstas...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If guns were the problem then the murder rate would be more or
>>>>>>>> less the same across the country, instead of being concentrated in
>>>>>>>> the same inner cities year after year and ought to be
>>>>>>>> astronomically higher today.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nope. That doesn't follow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh, it _does_ follow. Guns aren't "the problem". If peaceful
>>>>>> law-abiding citizens owned guns in greater numbers, this would not
>>>>>> greatly increase crime using guns.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The principal cause of crime is, after all, criminals.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The case for gun control is a bit more difficult to make.
>>>>>
>>>>> Gun control Will Not Bloody Work. It’s not just my opinion, it’s
>>>>> demonstrable.
>>>>>
>>>> [SNIP]
>>>> Worked perfectly well here in Oz.
>>>
>>> The same way my can of elephant repellant works in Connecticut. Since
>>> I got my elephant repellant I haven't seen a single elepehant, so that
>>> solved the elephant problem real good.
>>>>
>>>> Violent crimes committed with guns are down, with no increase in
>>>> knife/brick/hand grenade usage.
>>>
>>> Down from what to what?
>>>
>>>> Domestic violence using guns is down. (But, sadly, DV is on the
>>>> increase, although some of the rozzers I know put some/a lot of that
>>>> down to them taking it more seriously, and being *trained* in what to
>>>> do, so it gets reported more often. And COVID-19.)
>>>
>>> Down from what to what?
>>>
>>>> The suicide rate of farmers, in general, is down, and noticeably the
>>>> number where a gun is used are down.
>>>
>>> Down from what to what?
>>>
>>>> And we haven't had a three year-old kill a family member with an
>>>> unsecured firearm in, oh, forever.
>>>
>>> So how many did you have per year before your gun laws?
>>>
>>>> Of course, Australians aren't barbarian morons who need a gun to
>>>> compensate for their general uselessness. [OBSF - Wizards and
>>>> Swords.]
>>>
>>> If they aren't barbarian morons then why can't they be trusted with
>>> weapons?
>>>
>> Here's a general answer:
>> <https://www.jcu.edu.au/news/releases/2018/october/tough-laws-prevent-
> gun-deaths>
>> - "“In Australia we went from 614 firearm deaths in 1990 to 274 in
>> 2016".
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Gary B-)
> Not being a US citizen I must assume that you are unaware that the US
> also saw a huge drop in firearm deaths over the same period,while
> drowning in guns.
>
Really? Data, please?

Cheers,
Gary B-)

--
Waiting for a new signature to suggest itself...

On Saturday, June 19, 2021 at 4:10:28 PM UTC-6, edstas...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Quadibloc

> > But the real cause of the United States having so much more crime than some
> > other countries is, of course, the existence of a large group of people experiencing
> > inequality. A natioinal commitment to correct this problem, however, is lacking.

> I'd say the root of the problem is cultural, as poor people prior to the implementation
> of gun control in the U.S. in the 1960s weren't killing each other in record numbers.

> If the problem was economics, then why isn't Appalachia (the poorest region in the
> U.S.) not knee deep in blood?

That may be, but black Americans who make it into the middle class aren't a crime
problem. So it is not necessary to wade into controversy by ascribing some sort of
inferiority to black Americans. Either being better able to earn a living through honest
work will cure any cultural flaws of black Americans... or the different reaction to
poverty can be explained by things like the "invisible uniform" effect or alienation from
the dominant society.

John Savard

On Sun, 20 Jun 2021 13:42:00 +1000, "Gary R. Schmidt"
<grschmidt@acm.org> wrote:

>On 19/06/2021 23:55, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Sat, 19 Jun 2021 23:38:51 +1000, "Gary R. Schmidt"
>> <grschmidt@acm.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 19/06/2021 19:22, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 19 Jun 2021 13:58:42 +1000, "Gary R. Schmidt"
>>>> <grschmidt@acm.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 19/06/2021 04:55, Wolffan wrote:
>>>>>> On 2021 Jun 18, Quadibloc wrote
>>>>>> (in article<ac6cb5d8-8afc-4121-88a9-e9a0a25ebb46n@googlegroups.com>):
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thursday, June 17, 2021 at 3:29:26 PM UTC-6, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2021-06-17 2:18 p.m., edstas...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If guns were the problem then the murder rate would be more or less
>>>>>>>>> the same across the country, instead of being concentrated in the
>>>>>>>>> same inner cities year after year and ought to be astronomically
>>>>>>>>> higher today.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nope. That doesn't follow.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oh, it _does_ follow. Guns aren't "the problem". If peaceful law-abiding
>>>>>>> citizens owned guns in greater numbers, this would not greatly increase
>>>>>>> crime using guns.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The principal cause of crime is, after all, criminals.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The case for gun control is a bit more difficult to make.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gun control Will Not Bloody Work. It’s not just my opinion, it’s
>>>>>> demonstrable.
>>>>>>
>>>>> [SNIP]
>>>>> Worked perfectly well here in Oz.
>>>>
>>>> The same way my can of elephant repellant works in Connecticut. Since
>>>> I got my elephant repellant I haven't seen a single elepehant, so that
>>>> solved the elephant problem real good.
>>>>>
>>>>> Violent crimes committed with guns are down, with no increase in
>>>>> knife/brick/hand grenade usage.
>>>>
>>>> Down from what to what?
>>>>
>>>>> Domestic violence using guns is down. (But, sadly, DV is on the
>>>>> increase, although some of the rozzers I know put some/a lot of that
>>>>> down to them taking it more seriously, and being *trained* in what to
>>>>> do, so it gets reported more often. And COVID-19.)
>>>>
>>>> Down from what to what?
>>>>
>>>>> The suicide rate of farmers, in general, is down, and noticeably the
>>>>> number where a gun is used are down.
>>>>
>>>> Down from what to what?
>>>>
>>>>> And we haven't had a three year-old kill a family member with an
>>>>> unsecured firearm in, oh, forever.
>>>>
>>>> So how many did you have per year before your gun laws?
>>>>
>>>>> Of course, Australians aren't barbarian morons who need a gun to
>>>>> compensate for their general uselessness. [OBSF - Wizards and Swords.]
>>>>
>>>> If they aren't barbarian morons then why can't they be trusted with
>>>> weapons?
>>>>
>>> Here's a general answer:
>>> <https://www.jcu.edu.au/news/releases/2018/october/tough-laws-prevent-gun-deaths>
>>> - "“In Australia we went from 614 firearm deaths in 1990 to 274 in 2016".
>>
>> In other words you went from nothing to nothing. You didn't have a
>> problem that needed to be fixed but you fixed it anyway.
>>
>That. Is . Just. Disgusting.

Evething is disgusting to liberals. Except more and more and more
government control.

>And proof, if we needed any more, that in the USA, it is true that no
>lives matter.

Freedom is not free. And lives are one of the costs.

>And although I rarely publicise it, this piece of trash is now in the
>permanent kill file.

Standard liberal reaction to anyone who disagrees with them, fingers
in the ears and la-la-la.

> Quadibloc
> > Ed Stasiak
> >
> > If the problem was economics, then why isn't Appalachia (the poorest region in
> > the U.S.) knee deep in blood?
>
> That may be, but black Americans who make it into the middle class aren't a crime
> problem.

True, yet the murder rate for Black-Americans regardless of economic standing
is higher then for other ethnic groups.

https://ibb.co/sCybsYW

> So it is not necessary to wade into controversy by ascribing some sort of inferiority
> to black Americans.

Its not some kinda genetic inferiority, its clearly cultural. While the Black murder rate
(and other negative metrics) prior to the 1970s was higher then the White rate, it wasn't
that much higher despite Blacks literally living in an apartheid state but after LBJ's
"Great Society" reforms, their murder rate sky rocketed and has remained ridiculously
high ever since.

Again; half the murders in the U.S. are committed by 2-3% of the population who are
young Black males. This has NOTHING to do with guns, as Whites, Hispanics, Asians
and every other ethnic group in the U.S. has the same access to guns as Blacks yet for
some reason, they're not killing each other in record numbers.

https://ibb.co/KzS8WF9

> Either being better able to earn a living through honest work will cure any cultural flaws
> of black Americans... or the different reaction to poverty can be explained by things like
> the "invisible uniform" effect or alienation from the dominant society.

Are you claiming that this "invisible uniform" (however you define that) is WORSE TODAY
in the U.S. then it was when Black folks were subjected to open and institutionalized racism
on a daily basis and trapped under an economic glass ceiling prior to the 1960s?

Surely Black murder rates should have been astronomically higher back in the day considering
all the bullshit they were subject to, yet that wasn't the case and furthermore, this was back
when there were few if any gun laws and one could mail-order handguns straight out of the
Sears catalog.

https://ibb.co/9r6JKrV

This can only be explained by a crippling cultural change that came into effect in the 1970s
and that's not going to be solved by stripping Americans of their human right to self defense.

On 6/20/2021 6:38 AM, edstas...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Quadibloc
>>> Ed Stasiak
>>>
>>> If the problem was economics, then why isn't Appalachia (the poorest region in
>>> the U.S.) knee deep in blood?
>>
>> That may be, but black Americans who make it into the middle class aren't a crime
>> problem.
>
> True, yet the murder rate for Black-Americans regardless of economic standing
> is higher then for other ethnic groups.
>
> https://ibb.co/sCybsYW
>
>> So it is not necessary to wade into controversy by ascribing some sort of inferiority
>> to black Americans.
>
> Its not some kinda genetic inferiority, its clearly cultural. While the Black murder rate
> (and other negative metrics) prior to the 1970s was higher then the White rate, it wasn't
> that much higher despite Blacks literally living in an apartheid state but after LBJ's
> "Great Society" reforms, their murder rate sky rocketed and has remained ridiculously
> high ever since.
>
> Again; half the murders in the U.S. are committed by 2-3% of the population who are
> young Black males. This has NOTHING to do with guns, as Whites, Hispanics, Asians
> and every other ethnic group in the U.S. has the same access to guns as Blacks yet for
> some reason, they're not killing each other in record numbers.
>
> https://ibb.co/KzS8WF9
>
>> Either being better able to earn a living through honest work will cure any cultural flaws
>> of black Americans... or the different reaction to poverty can be explained by things like
>> the "invisible uniform" effect or alienation from the dominant society.
>
> Are you claiming that this "invisible uniform" (however you define that) is WORSE TODAY
> in the U.S. then it was when Black folks were subjected to open and institutionalized racism
> on a daily basis and trapped under an economic glass ceiling prior to the 1960s?
>
An openly "subjected" people will generally try to keep their heads down
to avoid triggering severe punishment for petty slights.

A people that have been told officially that they are treated equally
and have the same opportunities as the rest of the population but don't
see that happening WILL start "acting out" in frustration in a variety
of ways. More violence in general is one way. Rejection of the larger
culture is another. Killing "their own" who "sell out" by succeeding in
the larger culture is another. Lashing out at the larger society for
not doing as well because one rejected it is another. Violent reaction
to being beaten down by people telling you they aren't beating you down
for being different is common. More common than violent reaction to
being beaten down by those who openly subjugate you.

Its not so much that their situation is worse today as the unfulfilled
promise that they are and will be treated as equals makes them more
willing to use violence to force the promise to be fulfilled, INSTANTLY.
(Which simply isn't possible since there is at least a small portion
of meritocracy involved in advancing in our society. It takes time to
build the education, experience and social connections to advance.) But
by our nature as humans we are not all that good as a species at
specifically targeted violence. General mayhem at targets of
opportunity is more our thing.

--
Troll, troll, troll your post gently down the thread
Angrily, angrily, angrily, the net's a nut's scream.

On Sun, 20 Jun 2021 09:05:13 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
<dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

>On 6/20/2021 6:38 AM, edstas...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> Quadibloc
>>>> Ed Stasiak
>>>>
>>>> If the problem was economics, then why isn't Appalachia (the poorest region in
>>>> the U.S.) knee deep in blood?
>>>
>>> That may be, but black Americans who make it into the middle class aren't a crime
>>> problem.
>>
>> True, yet the murder rate for Black-Americans regardless of economic standing
>> is higher then for other ethnic groups.
>>
>> https://ibb.co/sCybsYW
>>
>>> So it is not necessary to wade into controversy by ascribing some sort of inferiority
>>> to black Americans.
>>
>> Its not some kinda genetic inferiority, its clearly cultural. While the Black murder rate
>> (and other negative metrics) prior to the 1970s was higher then the White rate, it wasn't
>> that much higher despite Blacks literally living in an apartheid state but after LBJ's
>> "Great Society" reforms, their murder rate sky rocketed and has remained ridiculously
>> high ever since.
>>
>> Again; half the murders in the U.S. are committed by 2-3% of the population who are
>> young Black males. This has NOTHING to do with guns, as Whites, Hispanics, Asians
>> and every other ethnic group in the U.S. has the same access to guns as Blacks yet for
>> some reason, they're not killing each other in record numbers.
>>
>> https://ibb.co/KzS8WF9
>>
>>> Either being better able to earn a living through honest work will cure any cultural flaws
>>> of black Americans... or the different reaction to poverty can be explained by things like
>>> the "invisible uniform" effect or alienation from the dominant society.
>>
>> Are you claiming that this "invisible uniform" (however you define that) is WORSE TODAY
>> in the U.S. then it was when Black folks were subjected to open and institutionalized racism
>> on a daily basis and trapped under an economic glass ceiling prior to the 1960s?
>>
>An openly "subjected" people will generally try to keep their heads down
>to avoid triggering severe punishment for petty slights.
>
>A people that have been told officially that they are treated equally
>and have the same opportunities as the rest of the population but don't
>see that happening WILL start "acting out" in frustration in a variety
>of ways. More violence in general is one way. Rejection of the larger
>culture is another. Killing "their own" who "sell out" by succeeding in
>the larger culture is another. Lashing out at the larger society for
>not doing as well because one rejected it is another. Violent reaction
>to being beaten down by people telling you they aren't beating you down
>for being different is common. More common than violent reaction to
>being beaten down by those who openly subjugate you.
>
>Its not so much that their situation is worse today as the unfulfilled
>promise that they are and will be treated as equals makes them more
>willing to use violence to force the promise to be fulfilled, INSTANTLY.
> (Which simply isn't possible since there is at least a small portion
>of meritocracy involved in advancing in our society. It takes time to
>build the education, experience and social connections to advance.) But
>by our nature as humans we are not all that good as a species at
>specifically targeted violence. General mayhem at targets of
>opportunity is more our thing.

Or maybe there's a simpler explanation--the "war on drugs" started
about the same time as the "Great Society" and what we're seeing is
Nixon's war.

On Sun, 20 Jun 2021 05:25:30 -0400, J. Clarke
<jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

Sorry to break in, but this might be of interest.

>Evething is disgusting to liberals. Except more and more and more
>government control.

And yet it is in /Texas/, hardly a liberal State whose Guv touts
individual freedom, that people with "smart" thermostats are having
them adjusted by the power company to save energy.

Talk about "more and more government control".

And, no, saying that power company isn't part of the gummint doesn't
help. They couldn't do it if the gummint didn't let them and that
would merely make it a problem with unbridled capitalism.

Having your life controlled by the Electric Company is no better than
having it controlled by the gummint. Indeed, since the gummint can be
replaced with a new gumming but the Electric Company, being a
corporation, is immortal and does not answer to anyone, it is much
much worse.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Sat, 19 Jun 2021 18:30:16 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
<taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:

>Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
>news:d16scgl9js7as1hhe1rahubhkf0d7j0oei@4ax.com:
>
>> On Fri, 18 Jun 2021 10:15:34 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
>> Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
>>>news:qnvmcghu36v1eicpcfhjbv5lv0hji2rbao@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>> And now it is being investigated as a criminal organization,
>>>> and gives off all the classic signs of an organization run for
>>>> the benefit of the leaders.
>>>>
>>>Or so claims the political appointee with a very overt agenda in
>>>New York State. If he claimed there are seven days in the week,
>>>I'd toss all my calandars under the assumption they're liberal
>>>propaganda.
>>
>> It is my impression that a certain Bankruptcy Court judge in
>> Texas reached much the same conclusion when the NRA tried to
>> declare bankruptcy there to hide assets from the guy in New
>> York.
>
>When the government ignores the law, their intended victims tend to
>do the same, yes.

The government appears to be /enforcing/ the law. But we shall see
what we shall see when all the NRA handwavium stops and they have to
actually respond to the alleged allegations.
>> BTW, I think the NRA /should/ relocate to Texas. It would be a
>> much better fit for them than New York.
>
>Texas is a much better for for living a decent life, certainly.
>Other than the heat, of course.

Unless the Electric Company decides to adjust your thermostat for you.
Then you broil.
>> Well, provided some part of it survives the current storm,
>> anyway.
>
>Which storm is that? The complete, utter lack of any increase in
>violent crime? That storm? I doubt they're worried.

Their pending impoverishment by New York State, of course. Insurance
fraud is a serious offense. If that actually happened, of course.

And the imprisonment of their leader for looting the tresury to
support his lifestyle. Since even Oliver North, who lied to Congress,
found it so blatant that he called him on it.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Sat, 19 Jun 2021 18:22:33 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
<taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:

>Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
>news:md6scg5h7ab8j6e22k7hr042cie2dgcdob@4ax.com:
>
>> On Fri, 18 Jun 2021 09:57:23 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
>> Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Jonathan <LSA@UMich.edu> wrote in
>>>news:np-dnfBIVeorXlb9nZ2dnUU7-dHNnZ2d@giganews.com:
>>>
>>>> On 6/17/2021 12:55 PM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 17:42:17 -0400, Jonathan <LSA@UMich.edu>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The Second Amendment is written in stone and it
>>>>>> gives us the right to bear arms.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is /not/ "written in stone". Prohibition was reversed, and
>>>>> so could this one be, at least in theory.
>>>>>
>>>>> And it might be, not reversed, but amended in turn, to
>>>>> "clarify" it, if that appears to be needed.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "...shall not be infringed" isn't ambiguous in the slightest.
>>>>
>>>Neither the Supreme Court's authority to interpret the
>>>Constitution and its amendments.
>>>
>>>At this point, dumbass, Alan Baker is making you look stupid.
>>
>> Sadly, that is a low bar.
>
>So you're claiming Baker is very smart, thus meaning that looking
>stupider than him is easy? That *is* what you're implying here.

Yes, I do appear to have expressed my thought badly.

Imagine the level of your target's stupidity.

Add a miniscule amount to it.

/That/ is the low bar I was referring to.

Exceeding it is, I suggest, not much of an achievement.

<snippo botspeak>
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Sat, 19 Jun 2021 15:20:56 -0700 (PDT), "edstas...@gmail.com"
<edstasiak1067@gmail.com> wrote:

>> Paul S Person
>> > Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
>> >
>> >Shootings in NYC
>> >
>> >May 2018: 77
>> >May 2019: 61
>> >May 2020: 100
>> >May 2021: 173
>>
>> But does this correlate to new Gun Laws?
>>
>> Or is it possible that /something else/ is causing this?
>>
>> Cabin fever from the pandemic, perhaps?
>
>The statistics show that NYC’s strict anti-gun laws, which were imposed back
>in the late 1800s, have had no observable effect on crime.

I wasn't aware that 2018 was "in the late 1800s".

And the argument is that gun-control /increases/ gun deaths.

So, unless NYC put /new/ control measures into effect, the data does
/not/ support the argument, as the number of shootings is rising while
the gun-control laws remain the same.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."