"pete...@gmail.com" <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote in
news:9a7a28f2-c867-4186-9cfb-7a84b41de32bn@googlegroups.com:

> On Monday, June 21, 2021 at 7:20:42 PM UTC-4, Jibini Kula
> Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>> Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com> wrote in
>> news:9d45913d-8658-4510...@googlegroups.com:
>>
>> > On Friday, June 18, 2021 at 1:14:43 PM UTC-4, Jibini Kula
>> > Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>> >> "edstas...@gmail.com" <edstas...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> >> news:62488d91-7af7-4fff...@googlegroups.com:
>> >> > There is no point where anti-gun fundies will ever say;
>> >> > "that's enough gun control".
>> >> >
>> >> That's simply not true. "Enough gun control" is when they
>> >> have all teh guns, and can kill anyone they want at any time
>> >> for no reason without fear of any consequences. They've made
>> >> that *very* clear. --
>> >
>> > Then it's time for "sword control."
>> >
>> > {As the peasants turn farming tools into pikes, or bills.
>> >
>> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_(weapon) }
>> >
>> It's been discussed in particularly anti-gun countries, when
>> criminals turned to knives instead.
>
> Again, to throw some actual facts into this tempest in a teacup.
>
> 2019: Australia has 0.15 gun homicides/100,000
> 2017: US has 4.46/100,000
>
> https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-relat
> ed_death_rate
>
Again, we get the murderous bullshit claim that someone killed with
a gun is somehow more dead than someone killed with a knife or a
baseball bat. Because that *must* be your point, in mentioning
*only* gun deaths. That, or you know full well that your goal is
more violent crime caused by rendering victims helpless, and, being
backed into a corner with facts, you - as gun grabbers *always* do
- are trying to change the subject.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

On 22/06/21 3:06 pm, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, June 21, 2021 at 7:20:42 PM UTC-4, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>> Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com> wrote in
>> news:9d45913d-8658-4510...@googlegroups.com:
>>
>>> On Friday, June 18, 2021 at 1:14:43 PM UTC-4, Jibini Kula
>>> Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>>> "edstas...@gmail.com" <edstas...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>> news:62488d91-7af7-4fff...@googlegroups.com:
>>>>> There is no point where anti-gun fundies will ever say;
>>>>> "that's enough gun control".
>>>>>
>>>> That's simply not true. "Enough gun control" is when they have
>>>> all teh guns, and can kill anyone they want at any time for no
>>>> reason without fear of any consequences. They've made that
>>>> *very* clear. --
>>>
>>> Then it's time for "sword control."
>>>
>>> {As the peasants turn farming tools into pikes, or bills.
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_(weapon) }
>>>
>> It's been discussed in particularly anti-gun countries, when
>> criminals turned to knives instead.
>
> Again, to throw some actual facts into this tempest in a teacup.

It appears there are different agendas. Are these facts relevant to the
original hypothesis?

> 2019: Australia has 0.15 gun homicides/100,000
> 2017: US has 4.46/100,000

Homicides? Is suicide by gun a crime? Accidental shootings not a problem?

> https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

There are several disclaimers beginning that page. I have Jibini in the
killfile for the duration of this thread despite the humour in what you
have quoted from him above. He, for one, is usually very quick to
discredit Wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States

might contain unpleasant facts for those with nut allergies
(gun nutters).
(Grins smugly, glad to be living where he is and not over there.)
And
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country

will not help them either. Fascinating that NZ has almost twice the
percentage of civilian owned guns than close neighbour Aussie, probably
because of the difference in numbers between rural and urban dwellers.

Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote in
news:sarp21$en0$1@dont-email.me:

> On 22/06/21 3:06 pm, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Monday, June 21, 2021 at 7:20:42 PM UTC-4, Jibini Kula
>> Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>> Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com> wrote in
>>> news:9d45913d-8658-4510...@googlegroups.com:
>>>
>>>> On Friday, June 18, 2021 at 1:14:43 PM UTC-4, Jibini Kula
>>>> Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>>>> "edstas...@gmail.com" <edstas...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>>> news:62488d91-7af7-4fff...@googlegroups.com:
>>>>>> There is no point where anti-gun fundies will ever say;
>>>>>> "that's enough gun control".
>>>>>>
>>>>> That's simply not true. "Enough gun control" is when they
>>>>> have all teh guns, and can kill anyone they want at any time
>>>>> for no reason without fear of any consequences. They've made
>>>>> that *very* clear. --
>>>>
>>>> Then it's time for "sword control."
>>>>
>>>> {As the peasants turn farming tools into pikes, or bills.
>>>>
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_(weapon) }
>>>>
>>> It's been discussed in particularly anti-gun countries, when
>>> criminals turned to knives instead.
>>
>> Again, to throw some actual facts into this tempest in a
>> teacup.
>
> It appears there are different agendas. Are these facts relevant
> to the original hypothesis?
>
>> 2019: Australia has 0.15 gun homicides/100,000
>> 2017: US has 4.46/100,000
>
> Homicides? Is suicide by gun a crime? Accidental shootings not a
> problem?
>
>> https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-rela
>> ted_death_rate
>
> There are several disclaimers beginning that page. I have Jibini
> in the killfile for the duration of this thread despite the
> humour in what you have quoted from him above. He, for one, is
> usually very quick to discredit Wikipedia.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States
>
> might contain unpleasant facts for those with nut allergies
> (gun nutters).
> (Grins smugly, glad to be living where he is and not over
> there.) And
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_p
> er_capita_by_country
>
> will not help them either. Fascinating that NZ has almost twice
> the percentage of civilian owned guns than close neighbour
> Aussie, probably because of the difference in numbers between
> rural and urban dwellers.
>
Still shilling the tied old "you're more dead if you're killed by a
gun" propaganda, I see.

Even when called out on it.

You, and your fellow fascists, will *never* address overall crime
rates. Because if Americans kill more often with knives, and
baseball bats, and fists, and cars, too, even in proportion to gun
deaths, that pretty conclusively proves what bullshit you're
shoveling, since it proves that *guns* aren't the problem. (A point
that has been proven, again and again, and again and again, with
pretty much every peer reviewed study for the last 70 years.)

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

On Monday, June 21, 2021 at 5:16:39 PM UTC-6, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote in
> news:sanovp$oh1$1...@dont-email.me:

> > An openly "subjected" people will generally try to keep their
> > heads down to avoid triggering severe punishment for petty
> > slights.

> So you're saying that black people are inherently more violent and
> prone to criminality?

No. He was countering the arguments of someone who seemed to be
advocating such ideas.

He was just stating a fact: there is a big crime problem today associated
with black people - but there wasn't back in the days when racism was
generally accepted and institutionalized. Black people are still discriminated
against enough to make some of them angry, but no longer repressed
enough to deprive them of any opportunity to strike back.

If going back to the old days is wrong (which, of course, it is), then the only
other choice is to go forwards to true equality.

John Savard

> Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
> > Ed Stasiak
> >
> > You seem to be missing the point: the murder rates in NYC went
> > up and down REGARDLESS of the existing and draconian gun
> > control laws. Guns are not and have never been the problem.
> >
> Assuming the goal is lower crime rates, that is. The "gun problem"
> isn't crime, it's that the "wrong people" have them. Namely, people
> who will defend themselves against the fascist coup.

True, but that's the goal of the Elites whereas the Useful Idiots who
are shilling gun control for them, think they're improving society as
that's what the Mainstream Media (working for the Elites) keeps
telling, them regardless of generations of contrary evidence.

> Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
> > Paul S Person
> >
> > If I and my brother (co-owners) ever decide to do some
> > upgrading, I will be insisting on /really stupid/ thermostats
> > and other similar items.
>
> Just remember, the thermostat is just a fancy on/off switch. In
> a real pinch, you can hotwire the control wires to the furnace/AC
> manually.

As I mentioned, I had interruptible AC service years back and this
entailed a separate control box wired between the electric meter
and the breaker-box but a few years back, the electric company
installed "smart meters" everywhere that transmit each home's
electrical usage, saving them the cost of having to pay guys to
walk into everybody's backyard and read the meter.

This also gives the electric company to ability to remotely shutdown
electrical service to the home in the event of non- payment or when
switching service from one owner to another so presumably, this
would also allow the electric company to regulate the home’s AC
regardless of the home owner’s wishes (AC installations require
a separate meter).

On a related note, Michigan's DTE electric company just told residents
that our electric rates will increase _50%_ between 1:00-7:00pm from
June thru August and of course our public utilities commission just
rolled over and let them...

> pete...@gmail.com
> > Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
> >
> > It's been discussed in particularly anti-gun countries, when
> > criminals turned to knives instead.
>
> Again, to throw some actual facts into this tempest in a teacup.
>
> 2019: Australia has 0.15 gun homicides/100,000
> 2017: US has 4.46/100,000
>
> https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

Why not compare apples to apples? Here in Michigan, everybody is
subject to the same state and federal gun laws and everybody has
the same access to firearms yet while the surrounding suburbs have
very few murders, the city of Detroit has averaged 400 murders per
year since the 1970s.

https://ibb.co/xhqHjQM

Again, if guns were the problem then the murder rate ought to be
roughly the same throughout the state yet despite Detroit accounting
for only 7% of the population in Michigan, the city somehow racks up
50% of the murders.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

"edstas...@gmail.com" <edstasiak1067@gmail.com> writes:
>> Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
>> > Paul S Person
>> >=20
>> > If I and my brother (co-owners) ever decide to do some=20
>> > upgrading, I will be insisting on /really stupid/ thermostats=20
>> > and other similar items.
>>
>> Just remember, the thermostat is just a fancy on/off switch. In
>> a real pinch, you can hotwire the control wires to the furnace/AC=20
>> manually.
>
>As I mentioned, I had interruptible AC service years back and this
>entailed a separate control box wired between the electric meter
>and the breaker-box but a few years back, the electric company
>installed "smart meters" everywhere that transmit each home's
>electrical usage, saving them the cost of having to pay guys to
>walk into everybody's backyard and read the meter.
>
>This also gives the electric company to ability to remotely shutdown
>electrical service to the home in the event of non- payment or when
>switching service from one owner to another so presumably, this
>would also allow the electric company to regulate the home=E2=80=99s AC
>regardless of the home owner=E2=80=99s wishes (AC installations require
>a separate meter).
>
>On a related note, Michigan's DTE electric company just told residents
>that our electric rates will increase _50%_ between 1:00-7:00pm from
>June thru August and of course our public utilities commission just
>rolled over and let them...

So it costs you $2/month more. Suck it up or man up and conserve.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/2021/06/01/consumers-energy-electricity-rate-increases-50-during-peak-hours/7493927002/

On Mon, 21 Jun 2021 16:13:22 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
<taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:

>Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote in
>news:sam281$c7m$1@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 6/19/2021 3:10 PM, edstas...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>> If the problem was economics, then why isn't Appalachia (the
>>> poorest region in the U.S.) not knee deep in blood?
>>>
>> Because all the clan *ahem* excuse me, gang warfare there ended
>> a hundred or so years ago when enough of the clans^H^H^H^H^H
>> gangs had been exterminated.
>>
>Bigot. I guess its still socially acceptable to hate poor white
>people for being poor. And white.

What, you don't think the "po' white trash" aren't what Republicans
have in mind when the talk about people so used to living better on
enhance UE payments that they won't go back to work?

Applying that to "them" would be admitting that "they" are of economic
importance, and We Can't Have That.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Mon, 21 Jun 2021 16:18:43 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
<taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:

>Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
>news:ibg1dgt4v786msr2t23ct739ueuphprl27@4ax.com:
>
>> On Sun, 20 Jun 2021 20:33:19 -0400, J. Clarke
>> <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 20 Jun 2021 16:45:24 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
>>><dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 6/20/2021 2:50 PM, edstas...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> Dimensional Traveler
>>>>>>> Ed Stasiak
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Are you claiming that this "invisible uniform" (however you
>>>>>>> define that) is WORSE TODAY in the U.S. then it was when
>>>>>>> Black folks were subjected to open and institutionalized
>>>>>>> racism on a daily basis and trapped under an economic glass
>>>>>>> ceiling prior to the 1960s?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> An openly "subjected" people will generally try to keep
>>>>>> their heads down to avoid triggering severe punishment for
>>>>>> petty slights.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A people that have been told officially that they are
>>>>>> treated equally and have the same opportunities as the rest
>>>>>> of the population but don't see that happening WILL start
>>>>>> "acting out" in frustration in a variety of ways. More
>>>>>> violence in general is one way. Rejection of the larger
>>>>>> culture is another. Killing "their own" who "sell out" by
>>>>>> succeeding in the larger culture is another. Lashing out at
>>>>>> the larger society for not doing as well because one
>>>>>> rejected it is another. Violent reaction to being beaten
>>>>>> down by people telling you they aren't beating you down
>>>>>> for being different is common. More common than violent
>>>>>> reaction to being beaten down by those who openly subjugate
>>>>>> you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Its not so much that their situation is worse today as the
>>>>>> unfulfilled promise that they are and will be treated as
>>>>>> equals makes them more willing to use violence to force the
>>>>>> promise to be fulfilled, INSTANTLY. (Which simply isn't
>>>>>> possible since there is at least a small portion of
>>>>>> meritocracy involved in advancing in our society. It takes
>>>>>> time to build the education, experience and social
>>>>>> connections to advance.) But by our nature as humans we are
>>>>>> not all that good as a species at specifically targeted
>>>>>> violence. General mayhem at targets of opportunity is more
>>>>>> our thing.
>>>>>
>>>>> So back to the unsubstantiated standardized “it’s White
>>>>> people’s fault!” excuse, which can’t be countered as there is
>>>>> nothing concrete to address, one must simply accept it as
>>>>> fact or be labeled a racist. Got it.
>>>>>
>>>>Not what I said. It is much more complex than any simple "Its
>>>>THEIR fault!".
>>>
>>>This whole business of "fault" is part of the problem. I used
>>>to work for a little tiny company. Whenever anything went
>>>wrong, the boss wanted to know whose fault it was. Now I work
>>>for a great big company. Whenever anything goes wrong, the boss
>>>wants to know how we change the system so it doesn't happen
>>>again. (note that I've worked for great big companies where
>>>blame is the game too--where I work now is exceptional).
>>
>> Indeed.
>>
>> Fixing the problem is better than placing the blame.
>>
>> But also less satisfying.
>>
>> And, besides, if the argument is about /who is at fault/, then
>> the discussion of /how to fix the problem/ can be ... shelved.
>
>If you *solve* the problem, you can no longer get wealthy leading
>teh charge against it.

Or re-elected to continue your "efforts".
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Tuesday, June 22, 2021 at 3:23:22 PM UTC+1, edstas...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
> > > Ed Stasiak
> > >
> > > You seem to be missing the point: the murder rates in NYC went
> > > up and down REGARDLESS of the existing and draconian gun
> > > control laws. Guns are not and have never been the problem.
> > >
> > Assuming the goal is lower crime rates, that is. The "gun problem"
> > isn't crime, it's that the "wrong people" have them. Namely, people
> > who will defend themselves against the fascist coup.
> True, but that's the goal of the Elites whereas the Useful Idiots who
> are shilling gun control for them, think they're improving society as
> that's what the Mainstream Media (working for the Elites) keeps
> telling, them regardless of generations of contrary evidence.

I think the idea of a bottom-up revolution from citizen gun owners clashes with two observations.

A closer look at the only successful revolution shows that it was not even ideologically a revolution of the people, for curious theological reasons. Christians had the problem that the Bible told them to support the powers that be. As a result one theological argument in e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vindiciae_contra_tyrannos was that individuals could only support a revolution led by somebody who already had considerable (but obviously not total) legal power - the so-called "Inferior Magistrate" - and looking at the notes to https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Jefferson/01-38-02-0510-0001 we can see that Jefferson at least had a copy of this work. So a true repeat of the American Revolution would look a lot more like seccession, with the inferior magistrates State Governors, than some sort of bottom-up rebellion. As such, both sides would have access to heavier weapons, which is just as well for the insurgents, because...

Modern bottom up rebellions make little use of handguns and rifles, for good reason. The counter-insurgency forces have an overwhelming advantage in training and infrastructure so the kill ratios in shoot-outs are massively in their favour. The typical weapon of the insurgency is the IED, car bomb, or incendiary, so that the insurgent does not have to confront a better trained, equipped, and co-ordinated opponent directly. Furthermore, the results are uniformly discouraging. One alarming disadvantage is that - without the infrastructure available to the inferior magistrate - even the best intentioned forces attempting to provide substitute law and order and government face the same forces as a mafia godfather, and quickly become indistinguishable from them. I suspect that there will always - even in an outright tyranny - be alternatives less bad than bottom up rebellion.

On Mon, 21 Jun 2021 16:08:49 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
<taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:

>Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
>news:mgg1dgpps22bkk93qabs969u8qhb0f8sr6@4ax.com:
<snippo mucho, topic is Electric Companies who aren't in trouble for
violating the 4th Amendment only because they aren't part of the
gummint and the tricked the victim to sign up for the "service", which
may well be an unfair trade practice>

>> Two observations:
>>
>> 1) Looks to me like an interstate problem calling for a Federal
>> solution. Those not liking Federal solutions, please note that
>> you can probably still avoid one by taking control of the
>> situation on the State level.
>
>The ISO is not controlled by either the feds or the states. They
>are mostly controlled by the laws of physics, which say you can't
>pull gigawatts of electricity out of your ass on demand. They are
>seriously hampered by state and federal regulations that keep them
>from building additional generating capacity and building out the
>infrastructure to distribute it.

It is true that the laws of physics come into play.

Most of the country is able to "borrow" electricity from other parts,
if available. Not, however, Texas, IIRC.

The problem is /not/ that they are not allowed to build power plants.
The problem is that they are not allowed to build power plants that
cause massive pollution. Design a coal-burner that emits /no/
pollutants, and it will pass muster. But nobody will want to use it,
because what is the /point/ to burning coal if you can't pollute the
atmosphere? And, besides, it would make the electricity cost too much.

>They are also hampered by
>deregulation resulting in them being run by idiots who only care
>about short term profit, but the inability to build generating
>capacity in places that need it is the greater problem.)

Indeed.

But even regulated natural monopolies -- even city-owned power
companies -- are capable of hiring idiots.

This is something we noticed in the Army: the actual structure of an
organization doesn't matter. What matters (note that "matter/matters"
here refers to overall functionality, obviously the worker bees must
be willing and able to do the actual work or this won't matter) is the
quality of the people running it. Bad people can mess up any
organization, regardless of structure; good people can make any
organization, however badly designed, run like a well-tuned Swiss
watch.
>> 2) I have always been skeptical of the "smart house", but
>> usually I expressed this by saying that I didn't want to receive
>> an urgent notification every two minutes from my refrigerator
>> telling me that my toaster was no longer responding to it. That
>> someone would actually use the technology to literally (ok,
>> electronically) go into someone's home and change their
>> thermostat never entered my mind.
>
>That would be because you're an idiot with no imagination.

Possibly so. The depths of human depravity are, in many ways, beyond
my ken.

And I am content that it be so.
>> Fortunately, the only "intelligent" device installed by someone
>> else on /this/ house is the electric meter. And all that does is
>> avoid paying to have someone come out every other month and read
>> it.
>
>Wanna bet? That's all they've used it for so far. That's hardly all
>its capable of. (They have been used, for instance, to identify
>marijuana "grow houses" based on not only total energy usage, but
>usage patterns.)

Ah -- that would explain the bumpf about "making electicity usage more
efficient": they meant making the arrest of scurrilous MJ growers more
likely. I had no idea what they were talking about. I thought that
perhaps I would get nonsense about how I could save 5 cents a day by
not running my (nonexistent) dishwasher or some similar nonsense.
>> If I and my brother (co-owners) ever decide to do some
>> upgrading, I will be insisting on /really stupid/ thermostats
>> and other similar items.
>
>Just remember, the thermostat is just a fancy on/off switch. In a
>real pinch, you can hotwire the control wires to the furnace/AC
>manually.

Indeed. And one that is not connected to anything but the furnace (and
that by wire entirely inside the house) will completely preclude any
such need (well, unless it stops working from age or abuse or disaster
[ours survived two house fires and at least one earthquake, so the
disaster would have to be pretty impressive], of course).
>> I should also point out that, in the Texas case, the temp was
>> raised from 72 to 78 (degrees Fahrenheit). Raising it to 74
>> might have gone unnoticed. So the Electric Company is not only
>> /rude/ and /invasive/, it is also /stupid/.
>
>It chose values that would keep the grid from collapsing under the
>load it was experiencing. It was "find enough cuts to keep demand
>no higher than supply" or "*everybody* goes dark, people die as a
>result, and hope we can replace the equipment physically damaged by
>the collapse in less than several months."

Well, we /hope/ so, anyway.

For all we know, it chose values that would produce the most
discomfort possible, just for fun.

Hard to tell, if there are morons in charge.

>Sometimes, professionals on whose work lives depend have to make
>touch choices.

Also tough choices.

And, yes, that /is/ their excuse.

I don't think it's going to help them very much, however.

People have a great attachment to the 4th Amendment.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Tue, 22 Jun 2021 07:47:01 -0700 (PDT), "edstas...@gmail.com"
<edstasiak1067@gmail.com> wrote:

>> Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
>> > Paul S Person
>> >
>> > If I and my brother (co-owners) ever decide to do some
>> > upgrading, I will be insisting on /really stupid/ thermostats
>> > and other similar items.
>>
>> Just remember, the thermostat is just a fancy on/off switch. In
>> a real pinch, you can hotwire the control wires to the furnace/AC
>> manually.
>
>As I mentioned, I had interruptible AC service years back and this
>entailed a separate control box wired between the electric meter
>and the breaker-box but a few years back, the electric company
>installed "smart meters" everywhere that transmit each home's
>electrical usage, saving them the cost of having to pay guys to
>walk into everybody's backyard and read the meter.

We have the "smart meters" (well, I /could/ have kept the old meter,
but there would have been an additional bimonthly [we are billed
bimonthly] fee to pay the reader), but they are entirely external to
the house.

I have no idea if they /could/ be wired to something inside the house,
such as a thermostat or refrigerator or toaster or water heater or ...
whatever. I do not that, if I have anything to say about, they will
/not/ be in our house.

>This also gives the electric company to ability to remotely shutdown
>electrical service to the home in the event of non- payment or when
>switching service from one owner to another so presumably, this
>would also allow the electric company to regulate the home’s AC
>regardless of the home owner’s wishes (AC installations require
>a separate meter).
>
>On a related note, Michigan's DTE electric company just told residents
>that our electric rates will increase _50%_ between 1:00-7:00pm from
>June thru August and of course our public utilities commission just
>rolled over and let them...

Well, of course it did.

The idea, of course, is to "encourage" people to use less electricity
in the afternoon.

Ours (both water and electric) use seasonal pricing (higher in summer)
and rating tiers (the more you use, the more you pay per unit) to
similar effect.

Our landline phone company regulators have, at least twice, given the
company the right to, "at any time over the next five years", raise
their rates by up to a rather large amount.

The company raised the rate by that amount immediately.

But, hey, it's not like they allowed a plane to be sold that /flew
itself into the ground/, now is it?

I mean, there are things that are vital and then there things that are
/really/ vital.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

> Quadibloc
> > Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
> >
> > So you're saying that black people are inherently more violent and
> > prone to criminality?
>
> No. He was countering the arguments of someone who seemed to be
> advocating such ideas.

I never said Blacks were inherently violent but that post-1960s
Black-American _culture_ encourages and even celebrates this kinda
behavior FAR more then any other ethnic group.

There is no denying that young Black men are killing each other in
outrageous numbers, far more then anybody else and this has nothing
at all to do with guns.

https://ibb.co/PxT1zMx

Why aren’t Hispanic crime rates similar to Black rates? Are you going
to claim they’re not subject to this all pervasive racism that infects
White-Americans and has turned us into slavering evil Neanderthals?

https://ibb.co/DCk3mdN

> He was just stating a fact: there is a big crime problem today associated
> with black people - but there wasn't back in the days when racism was
> generally accepted and institutionalized. Black people are still discriminated
> against enough to make some of them angry, but no longer repressed
> enough to deprive them of any opportunity to strike back.

Who the hell are Blacks "striking back" at? They top the charts in every
category of crime except drunk driving and their victims are overwhelmingly
other Black folks.

https://ibb.co/T2Lf5Pc

As I said up-thread, "it’s because of White racism!" is a bullshit cop-out that
allows one to unilaterally declare victory in a debate, as there is no way to
counter the argument and attempting to do so, only results in being slandered
as a racist (as happened to me in this thread).

On 2021-06-20 4:06 p.m., edstas...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Paul S Person
>>> Ed Stasiak
>>>
>>> The statistics show that NYC’s strict anti-gun laws, which were imposed
>>> back in the late 1800s, have had no observable effect on crime.
>>>
>>> https://ibb.co/RcxwHmL
>>
>> I wasn't aware that 2018 was "in the late 1800s".
>>
>> And the argument is that gun-control /increases/ gun deaths.
>>
>> So, unless NYC put /new/ control measures into effect, the data does
>> /not/ support the argument, as the number of shootings is rising while
>> the gun-control laws remain the same.
>
> You seem to be missing the point: the murder rates in NYC went up and
> down REGARDLESS of the existing and draconian gun control laws.
>
> Guns are not and have never been the problem.
>

Gun control laws that don't have any impact on the availability of guns
don't have any bearing on whether guns are a problem.

"edstas...@gmail.com" <edstasiak1067@gmail.com> wrote in
news:bd65ed3c-98b6-4849-8bac-e207c07f6706n@googlegroups.com:

>> Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
>> > Ed Stasiak
>> >
>> > You seem to be missing the point: the murder rates in NYC
>> > went up and down REGARDLESS of the existing and draconian gun
>> > control laws. Guns are not and have never been the problem.
>> >
>> Assuming the goal is lower crime rates, that is. The "gun
>> problem" isn't crime, it's that the "wrong people" have them.
>> Namely, people who will defend themselves against the fascist
>> coup.
>
> True, but that's the goal of the Elites whereas the Useful
> Idiots who are shilling gun control for them, think

You abuse the word "think." Badly.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
news:2t24dg5fgd39knk6tesgtmjr26nlsdpfk0@4ax.com:

> On Mon, 21 Jun 2021 16:13:22 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
> Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote in
>>news:sam281$c7m$1@dont-email.me:
>>
>>> On 6/19/2021 3:10 PM, edstas...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>> If the problem was economics, then why isn't Appalachia (the
>>>> poorest region in the U.S.) not knee deep in blood?
>>>>
>>> Because all the clan *ahem* excuse me, gang warfare there
>>> ended a hundred or so years ago when enough of the
>>> clans^H^H^H^H^H gangs had been exterminated.
>>>
>>Bigot. I guess its still socially acceptable to hate poor white
>>people for being poor. And white.
>
> What, you don't think the "po' white trash" aren't what
> Republicans have in mind when the talk about people so used to
> living better on enhance UE payments that they won't go back to
> work?

Well, no, they're referring to poor *not* white people, who are,
after all, fit only to be servants (which is to say, work for
starvation wages).

But we're talking about the since of the left right now.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
news:b234dg9dku7e2crr704cp8pt4rruukkqb2@4ax.com:

> On Mon, 21 Jun 2021 16:18:43 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
> Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
>>news:ibg1dgt4v786msr2t23ct739ueuphprl27@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On Sun, 20 Jun 2021 20:33:19 -0400, J. Clarke
>>> <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 20 Jun 2021 16:45:24 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
>>>><dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On 6/20/2021 2:50 PM, edstas...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>> Dimensional Traveler
>>>>>>>> Ed Stasiak
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Are you claiming that this "invisible uniform" (however
>>>>>>>> you define that) is WORSE TODAY in the U.S. then it was
>>>>>>>> when Black folks were subjected to open and
>>>>>>>> institutionalized racism on a daily basis and trapped
>>>>>>>> under an economic glass ceiling prior to the 1960s?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> An openly "subjected" people will generally try to keep
>>>>>>> their heads down to avoid triggering severe punishment for
>>>>>>> petty slights.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A people that have been told officially that they are
>>>>>>> treated equally and have the same opportunities as the
>>>>>>> rest of the population but don't see that happening WILL
>>>>>>> start "acting out" in frustration in a variety of ways.
>>>>>>> More violence in general is one way. Rejection of the
>>>>>>> larger culture is another. Killing "their own" who "sell
>>>>>>> out" by succeeding in the larger culture is another.
>>>>>>> Lashing out at the larger society for not doing as well
>>>>>>> because one rejected it is another. Violent reaction to
>>>>>>> being beaten down by people telling you they aren't
>>>>>>> beating you down for being different is common. More
>>>>>>> common than violent reaction to being beaten down by those
>>>>>>> who openly subjugate you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Its not so much that their situation is worse today as the
>>>>>>> unfulfilled promise that they are and will be treated as
>>>>>>> equals makes them more willing to use violence to force
>>>>>>> the promise to be fulfilled, INSTANTLY. (Which simply
>>>>>>> isn't possible since there is at least a small portion of
>>>>>>> meritocracy involved in advancing in our society. It takes
>>>>>>> time to build the education, experience and social
>>>>>>> connections to advance.) But by our nature as humans we
>>>>>>> are not all that good as a species at specifically
>>>>>>> targeted violence. General mayhem at targets of
>>>>>>> opportunity is more our thing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So back to the unsubstantiated standardized �it�s White
>>>>>> people�s fault!� excuse, which can�t be countered as there
>>>>>> is nothing concrete to address, one must simply accept it
>>>>>> as fact or be labeled a racist. Got it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>Not what I said. It is much more complex than any simple
>>>>>"Its THEIR fault!".
>>>>
>>>>This whole business of "fault" is part of the problem. I used
>>>>to work for a little tiny company. Whenever anything went
>>>>wrong, the boss wanted to know whose fault it was. Now I work
>>>>for a great big company. Whenever anything goes wrong, the
>>>>boss wants to know how we change the system so it doesn't
>>>>happen again. (note that I've worked for great big companies
>>>>where blame is the game too--where I work now is exceptional).
>>>
>>> Indeed.
>>>
>>> Fixing the problem is better than placing the blame.
>>>
>>> But also less satisfying.
>>>
>>> And, besides, if the argument is about /who is at fault/, then
>>> the discussion of /how to fix the problem/ can be ... shelved.
>>
>>If you *solve* the problem, you can no longer get wealthy
>>leading teh charge against it.
>
> Or re-elected to continue your "efforts".

You say that like there's a difference.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
news:4a34dg5hnv2f3st48u2ms7fuj7vd1jlv4t@4ax.com:

> On Mon, 21 Jun 2021 16:08:49 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
> Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
>>news:mgg1dgpps22bkk93qabs969u8qhb0f8sr6@4ax.com:
> <snippo mucho, topic is Electric Companies who aren't in trouble
> for violating the 4th Amendment only because they aren't part of
> the gummint and the tricked the victim to sign up for the
> "service", which may well be an unfair trade practice>
>
>>> Two observations:
>>>
>>> 1) Looks to me like an interstate problem calling for a
>>> Federal solution. Those not liking Federal solutions, please
>>> note that you can probably still avoid one by taking control
>>> of the situation on the State level.
>>
>>The ISO is not controlled by either the feds or the states. They
>>are mostly controlled by the laws of physics, which say you
>>can't pull gigawatts of electricity out of your ass on demand.
>>They are seriously hampered by state and federal regulations
>>that keep them from building additional generating capacity and
>>building out the infrastructure to distribute it.
>
> It is true that the laws of physics come into play.
>
> Most of the country is able to "borrow" electricity from other
> parts, if available. Not, however, Texas, IIRC.
>
> The problem is /not/ that they are not allowed to build power
> plants. The problem is that they are not allowed to build power
> plants that cause massive pollution. Design a coal-burner that
> emits /no/ pollutants, and it will pass muster. But nobody will
> want to use it, because what is the /point/ to burning coal if
> you can't pollute the atmosphere? And, besides, it would make
> the electricity cost too much.

That is one of the most delusional things you've ever spewed. And
from you, that's really saying something.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

On 6/22/2021 9:47 AM, edstas...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
>>> Paul S Person
>>>
>>> If I and my brother (co-owners) ever decide to do some
>>> upgrading, I will be insisting on /really stupid/ thermostats
>>> and other similar items.
>>
>> Just remember, the thermostat is just a fancy on/off switch. In
>> a real pinch, you can hotwire the control wires to the furnace/AC
>> manually.
>
> As I mentioned, I had interruptible AC service years back and this
> entailed a separate control box wired between the electric meter
> and the breaker-box but a few years back, the electric company
> installed "smart meters" everywhere that transmit each home's
> electrical usage, saving them the cost of having to pay guys to
> walk into everybody's backyard and read the meter.
>
> This also gives the electric company to ability to remotely shutdown
> electrical service to the home in the event of non- payment or when
> switching service from one owner to another so presumably, this
> would also allow the electric company to regulate the home’s AC
> regardless of the home owner’s wishes (AC installations require
> a separate meter).
>
> On a related note, Michigan's DTE electric company just told residents
> that our electric rates will increase _50%_ between 1:00-7:00pm from
> June thru August and of course our public utilities commission just
> rolled over and let them...

Their cost to make extra power from 1pm to 7pm would fascinate you. At
least 2X, could be as much as 4X if they have to roll a few gas turbines
up. And 7pm seems early, 9pm would be much better.

BTW, Texas peaks at 3pm to 5pm this time of the year. We have 300+ gas
turbines spread about the state to take the hit.
http://www.ercot.com/

Lynn

On 6/22/2021 11:44 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Jun 2021 07:47:01 -0700 (PDT), "edstas...@gmail.com"
> <edstasiak1067@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
>>>> Paul S Person
>>>>
>>>> If I and my brother (co-owners) ever decide to do some
>>>> upgrading, I will be insisting on /really stupid/ thermostats
>>>> and other similar items.
>>>
>>> Just remember, the thermostat is just a fancy on/off switch. In
>>> a real pinch, you can hotwire the control wires to the furnace/AC
>>> manually.
>>
>> As I mentioned, I had interruptible AC service years back and this
>> entailed a separate control box wired between the electric meter
>> and the breaker-box but a few years back, the electric company
>> installed "smart meters" everywhere that transmit each home's
>> electrical usage, saving them the cost of having to pay guys to
>> walk into everybody's backyard and read the meter.
>
> We have the "smart meters" (well, I /could/ have kept the old meter,
> but there would have been an additional bimonthly [we are billed
> bimonthly] fee to pay the reader), but they are entirely external to
> the house.

Not just to pay the meter reader but to buy insurance for him or her. I
worked for TXU (two million meters back then) from 1982 to 1989 and our
meter readers always turned in the most amount of lost time injuries
among our 16,000 employees.

We had an incident where two meter readers went out to check some meter
readings in a company car. The lady went to check the meter (behind the
house of course) and got bit by the owner's very large dog. The dog
then raced through the open gate, jumped in the car through the open
passenger door, and bit the meter reader driver. Both of them required
stitches and antibiotics.

Lynn

On 6/22/2021 11:34 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Jun 2021 16:08:49 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
> <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
>> news:mgg1dgpps22bkk93qabs969u8qhb0f8sr6@4ax.com:
> <snippo mucho, topic is Electric Companies who aren't in trouble for
> violating the 4th Amendment only because they aren't part of the
> gummint and the tricked the victim to sign up for the "service", which
> may well be an unfair trade practice>
>
>>> Two observations:
>>>
>>> 1) Looks to me like an interstate problem calling for a Federal
>>> solution. Those not liking Federal solutions, please note that
>>> you can probably still avoid one by taking control of the
>>> situation on the State level.
>>
>> The ISO is not controlled by either the feds or the states. They
>> are mostly controlled by the laws of physics, which say you can't
>> pull gigawatts of electricity out of your ass on demand. They are
>> seriously hampered by state and federal regulations that keep them
>>from building additional generating capacity and building out the
>> infrastructure to distribute it.
>
> It is true that the laws of physics come into play.
>
> Most of the country is able to "borrow" electricity from other parts,
> if available. Not, however, Texas, IIRC.

Sorry but Texas has DC interties to the power grids in Oklahoma and
Arkansas. Maybe Louisiana also.

But when the Texas grid was in trouble last February, the eastern grid
had troubles of its own and could not send any power to Texas. I
forgot, Mexico also.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Interconnection#Ties

Lynn

> David Johnston
> > Ed Stasiak
> >
> > You seem to be missing the point: the murder rates in NYC went up and
> > down REGARDLESS of the existing and draconian gun control laws.
>
> Gun control laws that don't have any impact on the availability of guns
> don't have any bearing on whether guns are a problem.

We continually hear the same thing from anti-gun fundies about Chicago's
outrageous murder rate, that the problem is criminals acquiring guns in
neighboring Indiana due to that state's supposedly lax gun laws.

Except the city of Chicago his more murders then the _entire state of Indiana_
so once again you're trying to have your cake and eat it too, because if guns
are the problem then why doesn't Indiana (which also has the most concealed
pistol license holders in the nation) have far more murders, considering their
laissez-faire attitude towards guns?

2017 - city of Chicago - 650 murders - population 2.7 million
2017 - state of Indiana - 456 murders - population 6.7 million

On 2021-06-22 5:56 p.m., edstas...@gmail.com wrote:
>> David Johnston
>>> Ed Stasiak
>>>
>>> You seem to be missing the point: the murder rates in NYC went up and
>>> down REGARDLESS of the existing and draconian gun control laws.
>>
>> Gun control laws that don't have any impact on the availability of guns
>> don't have any bearing on whether guns are a problem.
>
> We continually hear the same thing from anti-gun fundies about Chicago's
> outrageous murder rate, that the problem is criminals acquiring guns in
> neighboring Indiana due to that state's supposedly lax gun laws.
>
> Except the city of Chicago his more murders then the _entire state of Indiana_
> so once again you're trying to have your cake and eat it too, because if guns
> are the problem then why doesn't Indiana (which also has the most concealed
> pistol license holders in the nation) have far more murders, considering their
> laissez-faire attitude towards guns?

It is always a mistake to think in terms of "the" problem when it comes
to a social issue.

> David Johnston
> > Ed Stasiak
> >
> > Except the city of Chicago his more murders then the _entire state of Indiana_
> > so once again you're trying to have your cake and eat it too, because if guns
> > are the problem then why doesn't Indiana (which also has the most concealed
> > pistol license holders in the nation) have far more murders, considering their
> > laissez-faire attitude towards guns?
>
> It is always a mistake to think in terms of "the" problem when it comes
> to a social issue.

What does that even mean? As far as I can translate it, it sounds like; "White racism
is the problem, we should ignore generations of research on the issue and impose
draconian gun control laws because… well, just because."