On Wed, 8 Sep 2021 02:19:59 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
wrote:

>In article <5r3gjg9i46695f5382lu8lqblve1k9i3qv@4ax.com>,
>The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>>On Sun, 4 Jul 2021 08:05:23 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
>><rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>>
>>>A society of men with no women is seen in various
>>>religious communities, with the question of how
>>>laundry is done addressed by not having any.
>>>However, Captain America's original situation
>>>was an American army camp which I suppose
>>>probably was all guys, I don't know. It really is
>>>not quite the same.
>>
>>In fairness the most common "society of men without women" are either
>>military stories or stories of ships at sea.
>>
>>You simply can't perform Moby Dick or Saving Private Ryan with a 50%
>>female cast.
>
>Not in the mid-nineteenth or -twentieth century in which those
>books/films are set. In a more egalitarian future, however....

I don't think Hollywood cares anymore. I'm expecting a remake of
"Cleopatra" with a male Cleopatra or female Caesar any day now.

On Wednesday, June 30, 2021 at 9:40:03 PM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> If by any
> chance Apple did release DVDs, they'd likely be some format I
> couldn't play.

I think you're safe from that.

It's true that Sony made special movie discs based on the DVD that
could only be played on their PlayStation Portable, but in general, DVD,
BluRay, and the Compact Disc are highly standardized formats - they're
intended to play on consumer playback equipment that connects to
TV sets or hi-fi systems, and so they don't come in versions tied to a
particular computer operating system.

Sure, one could put video content on a DVD-ROM that included software
that only worked on a Macintosh. That sort of thing has been done for
some interactive video products. But that's not something that has been
used to distribute movies.

John Savard

On Wednesday, June 30, 2021 at 9:54:45 AM UTC-6, Steve Coltrin wrote:

> Already people are complaining because the trailers show women doing
> things other than fetching coffee, and nobody is smoking.

Not having read the Foundation Trilogy again *recently*, I thought this was
some strange kind of joke. But reading the replies, apparently in the novel
Asimov really did put these characteristic elements of 1960s culture in
this story of the far future.

Obviously, a film adaptation for audiences today of the Foundation Trilogy
would be simply _bizarre_ if it depicted an advanced far-future world as
so far behind the times even for our age. So while gratuitous political
correctness is one thing, these are changes that are obviously necessary.

John Savard

On Tue, 7 Sep 2021 20:59:50 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
wrote:

>On Wednesday, June 30, 2021 at 9:54:45 AM UTC-6, Steve Coltrin wrote:
>
>> Already people are complaining because the trailers show women doing
>> things other than fetching coffee, and nobody is smoking.
>
>Not having read the Foundation Trilogy again *recently*, I thought this was
>some strange kind of joke. But reading the replies, apparently in the novel
>Asimov really did put these characteristic elements of 1960s culture in
>this story of the far future.
>
>Obviously, a film adaptation for audiences today of the Foundation Trilogy
>would be simply _bizarre_ if it depicted an advanced far-future world as
>so far behind the times even for our age. So while gratuitous political
>correctness is one thing, these are changes that are obviously necessary.

I suspect that once cancer is knocked down smoking will come back.

In article <pqbgjg1i2mg1aqhocdkdhfrqv3srujkpg7@4ax.com>,
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 8 Sep 2021 02:18:13 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>wrote:
>
>>In article <sh92te$tsu$1@dont-email.me>,
>>Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>On 7/3/2021 11:05 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 3 Jul 2021 21:55:47 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In article <sbqd3a$74b$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>>> Michael F. Stemper <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 30/06/2021 18.41, Kevrob wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wednesday, June 30, 2021 at 4:08:34 PM UTC-4, Jibini Kula Tumbili
>>>>>> Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How about recasting Wonder Woman as a man? Prince Dane of the all
>>>>>>>> male island of something-mumble, and so on. You *really* think
>>>>>>>> there wouldn't be the same (only more so) reaction to a Wonder Man
>>>>>>>> movie?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sometimes a "gender-flip" adds something. My favorite is
>>>>>>> Roz Russell as Hildy Johnson, turning "The Front Page" into
>>>>>>> "His Girl Friday."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/His_Girl_Friday
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John Varley went one better in _Steel Beach_ by having Hildy start
>>>>>> out (in the novel) as male and then switch to female. Now I need to
>>>>>> reread it to see if some character is a Cary Grant analog.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, let us know. Now, if you'd generalized it as a
>>>>> gender-switching story of any kind with a Cary Grant analog, I'd
>>>>> recommend "Some Like It Hot," in which Tony Curtis's character,
>>>>> when not hiding from the mob in female clothing, adopts a Cary
>>>>> Grant accent to woo Marilyn Monroe's character. He came by the
>>>>> accent almost honestly; he was in the US Navy during WWII and
>>>>> stationed someplace where there was a projector but only a few
>>>>> films, one of which starred Grant. The guys got to the point
>>>>> where they knew every line of dialog, so they'd turn the sound
>>>>> off and recite the dialog themselves. Curtis got to voice
>>>>> Grant.
>>>>
>>>> It's not really gender-switching, but Cary Grant spends about half of
>>>> "Bringing Up Baby" wearing Katherine Hepburn's bathrobe.
>>>
>>>My wife freaking loves that movie. I must admit that it is hilarious,
>>>especially when the guy starts to make the big cat cry and the big cat
>>>beats him to it.
>>>
>>Heh. I have never seen that one, but your description of that
>>scene make me want to. If ever I discover that some site that my
>>daughter subscribes to is streaming it, I'll watch it. Cats rule.
>
>It's on Amazon Prime or iTunes for 3 bucks rental or 12.99 to buy.
>
>It's not on Hulu, Netflix, Showtime, HBO Max, Disney+, Paramount+, or
>Apple+.
>

In article <ipqn33Frj5eU2@mid.individual.net>,
Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
>In article <qz3GoC.22Hz@kithrup.com>,
>Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote:
>>In article <617gjgppdd63utriovj8rtnkhu9gaq0eu9@4ax.com>,
>>J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>On Tue, 07 Sep 2021 18:20:09 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 4 Jul 2021 08:05:23 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
>>>><rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>A society of men with no women is seen in various
>>>>>religious communities, with the question of how
>>>>>laundry is done addressed by not having any.
>>>>>However, Captain America's original situation
>>>>>was an American army camp which I suppose
>>>>>probably was all guys, I don't know. It really is
>>>>>not quite the same.
>>>>
>>>>In fairness the most common "society of men without women" are either
>>>>military stories or stories of ships at sea.
>>>>
>>>>You simply can't perform Moby Dick or Saving Private Ryan with a 50%
>>>>female cast.
>>>
>>>Of course you can--these days they'd cast a Chinese woman in a
>>>wheelchair as Ahab.
>>
>>Hmmm. You could steal the plot, as _The Wrath of Khan_ did,
>>substituting the Chinese woman in a wheelchair for a white male
>>American with a wooden leg, and a spacecraft or time machine or
>>inter-universe portal for the Pequod. The root of the story is a
>>person who has been maimed by a force of nature and is determined
>>to have revenge on it. Which is impossible.
>>
>
>Jim Kirk is a force of nature? Hmm, ...yep works for me.

From Khan's point of view, he absolutely is. What else could
have defeated KhaN?

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

In article <ipqn0lFrj5eU1@mid.individual.net>,
Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
>In article <qz3FtB.21MG@kithrup.com>,
>Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote:
>>In article <5r3gjg9i46695f5382lu8lqblve1k9i3qv@4ax.com>,
>>The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>>>On Sun, 4 Jul 2021 08:05:23 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
>>><rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>A society of men with no women is seen in various
>>>>religious communities, with the question of how
>>>>laundry is done addressed by not having any.
>>>>However, Captain America's original situation
>>>>was an American army camp which I suppose
>>>>probably was all guys, I don't know. It really is
>>>>not quite the same.
>>>
>>>In fairness the most common "society of men without women" are either
>>>military stories or stories of ships at sea.
>>>
>>>You simply can't perform Moby Dick or Saving Private Ryan with a 50%
>>>female cast.
>>
>>Not in the mid-nineteenth or -twentieth century in which those
>>books/films are set. In a more egalitarian future, however....
>>
>
>The past is already being re-written for kids movies to show kids what
>they expect to see.
>
>This was notably true in the mediocre "The House with a Clock in Its Walls"
>where 1955 Michigan has notably modern ethnic balance and mixing in its
>public shcools.
>
>The excellent "Merry Poppins Returns" was the same. Now, since the
>UK never had formal Jim Crow, I'm sure there could have been a few
>black lawyers in a city the size of London in the 1930s, but they
>certainly would have been remarkable individuals. And it's hard
>to imagine a prestigious bank president's public facing secretary
>having been black.

Consider that a high-caste Hindu would have been considered
"black" in London.

(There's this children's book, no longer available for
understandable reasons, called _Little Black Sambo._ Kid gets
treed by a group of tigers, who since they can't climb the tree
run around it faster and faster until they turn into a puddle of
melted butter--_ghi_, in other words. They're in India, not
Africa.)
>
>That's not a complaint though -- it *is* what the kids expect, and
>it didn't make the mediocre movie mediocre or keep the excellent movie
>from being excellent.
>
>Moving to more on-topic here things, fantasy has the advantage that
>since it didn't happen at all, you can't say it didn't happen that
>way, but in both the recent "Powder Mage" and "10,000 Names" series,
>we have French Revolution analogs where women are common on the
>pseudo-Napoleonic battlefields, something I think is pretty unlikely,
>but is now what *we* expect..

Oh, do tell me that their leader is named Marianne, and her
bodice tends to slip....

https://www.cafeducycliste.com/en_us/la-gazette/marianne/

Scroll down past the chick in the bicycle helmet to see the
original.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

In article <9dd52a38-fe8a-447a-bbec-ac7fc09b9a74n@googlegroups.com>,
Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>On Wednesday, June 30, 2021 at 9:54:45 AM UTC-6, Steve Coltrin wrote:
>
>> Already people are complaining because the trailers show women doing
>> things other than fetching coffee, and nobody is smoking.
>
>Not having read the Foundation Trilogy again *recently*, I thought this was
>some strange kind of joke. But reading the replies, apparently in the novel
>Asimov really did put these characteristic elements of 1960s culture in
>this story of the far future.

s/60s/40s

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

On Tuesday, September 7, 2021 at 10:25:03 PM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <9dd52a38-fe8a-447a...@googlegroups.com>,
> Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> >On Wednesday, June 30, 2021 at 9:54:45 AM UTC-6, Steve Coltrin wrote:

> >> Already people are complaining because the trailers show women doing
> >> things other than fetching coffee, and nobody is smoking.

> >Not having read the Foundation Trilogy again *recently*, I thought this was
> >some strange kind of joke. But reading the replies, apparently in the novel
> >Asimov really did put these characteristic elements of 1960s culture in
> >this story of the far future.

> s/60s/40s

Yes, that was when the Foundation Trilogy was written, but these things
persisted into the early 1960s. I remember seeing something - was it a
Star Trek episode? - about the 1960s where a time-traveller from the
future fans herself after escaping from an elevator where people were
smoking...

On further reflection, of course, maybe there is nothing wrong with the
original Foundation Trilogy. Our society where women enjoy equality
is clearly unstable and doomed to collapse, in a revolution which will
(among other things) restore women to what some people think is their
"natural" status.

Jair Bolsonaro and Donald Trump indicate what this future is like. I don't
approve of this kind of future, and have worked out a way to avoid it.

Ah, yes. A sequel to Foundation where Hari Seldon is concerned with the
status of women, and seeks to mold a society in which women can be
equal in a sustainable manner that will avoid collapse for millenia.

Foundation and Vat-Girls!

A pity Dr. Asimov isn't around today so that I could suggest it to him.

John Savard

On Tuesday, September 7, 2021 at 10:25:03 PM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <ipqn0l...@mid.individual.net>,
> Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:

> >Moving to more on-topic here things, fantasy has the advantage that
> >since it didn't happen at all, you can't say it didn't happen that
> >way, but in both the recent "Powder Mage" and "10,000 Names" series,
> >we have French Revolution analogs where women are common on the
> >pseudo-Napoleonic battlefields, something I think is pretty unlikely,
> >but is now what *we* expect..

> Oh, do tell me that their leader is named Marianne, and her
> bodice tends to slip....

Having looked up Powder Mage, it doesn't seem to be the case, although
what I read described the earlier period of the story, before the female
characters took on an important role...

John Savard

Ted Nolan <tednolan> <ted@loft.tnolan.com> wrote:
>
> The excellent "Merry Poppins Returns" was the same. Now, since the
> UK never had formal Jim Crow, I'm sure there could have been a few
> black lawyers in a city the size of London in the 1930s, but they
> certainly would have been remarkable individuals.

Ref. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Cole_(barrister)

--
Leif Roar Moldskred

In article <meidnbZhae4J3aX8nZ2dnUU78fPNnZ2d@giganews.com>,
Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@huldreheim.Home> wrote:
>Ted Nolan <tednolan> <ted@loft.tnolan.com> wrote:
>>
>> The excellent "Merry Poppins Returns" was the same. Now, since the
>> UK never had formal Jim Crow, I'm sure there could have been a few
>> black lawyers in a city the size of London in the 1930s, but they
>> certainly would have been remarkable individuals.
>
>Ref. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Cole_(barrister)
>

Yeah, as I say I figured there must have been a few, but didn't really
know how to look it up. Thanks!

So anyway, not the type of guy who gets sent, unremarked, to serve
standard eviction notices :-)
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

In article <qz3L2o.w7L@kithrup.com>,
Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote:
>In article <ipqn0lFrj5eU1@mid.individual.net>,
>Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
>>In article <qz3FtB.21MG@kithrup.com>,
>>Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote:
>>>In article <5r3gjg9i46695f5382lu8lqblve1k9i3qv@4ax.com>,
>>>The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>>>>On Sun, 4 Jul 2021 08:05:23 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
>>>><rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>A society of men with no women is seen in various
>>>>>religious communities, with the question of how
>>>>>laundry is done addressed by not having any.
>>>>>However, Captain America's original situation
>>>>>was an American army camp which I suppose
>>>>>probably was all guys, I don't know. It really is
>>>>>not quite the same.
>>>>
>>>>In fairness the most common "society of men without women" are either
>>>>military stories or stories of ships at sea.
>>>>
>>>>You simply can't perform Moby Dick or Saving Private Ryan with a 50%
>>>>female cast.
>>>
>>>Not in the mid-nineteenth or -twentieth century in which those
>>>books/films are set. In a more egalitarian future, however....
>>>
>>
>>The past is already being re-written for kids movies to show kids what
>>they expect to see.
>>
>>This was notably true in the mediocre "The House with a Clock in Its Walls"
>>where 1955 Michigan has notably modern ethnic balance and mixing in its
>>public shcools.
>>
>>The excellent "Merry Poppins Returns" was the same. Now, since the
>>UK never had formal Jim Crow, I'm sure there could have been a few
>>black lawyers in a city the size of London in the 1930s, but they
>>certainly would have been remarkable individuals. And it's hard
>>to imagine a prestigious bank president's public facing secretary
>>having been black.
>
>Consider that a high-caste Hindu would have been considered
>"black" in London.
>
>(There's this children's book, no longer available for
>understandable reasons, called _Little Black Sambo._ Kid gets
>treed by a group of tigers, who since they can't climb the tree
>run around it faster and faster until they turn into a puddle of
>melted butter--_ghi_, in other words. They're in India, not
>Africa.)
>>
>>That's not a complaint though -- it *is* what the kids expect, and
>>it didn't make the mediocre movie mediocre or keep the excellent movie
>>from being excellent.
>>
>>Moving to more on-topic here things, fantasy has the advantage that
>>since it didn't happen at all, you can't say it didn't happen that
>>way, but in both the recent "Powder Mage" and "10,000 Names" series,
>>we have French Revolution analogs where women are common on the
>>pseudo-Napoleonic battlefields, something I think is pretty unlikely,
>>but is now what *we* expect..
>
>Oh, do tell me that their leader is named Marianne, and her
>bodice tends to slip....
>
>https://www.cafeducycliste.com/en_us/la-gazette/marianne/
>
>Scroll down past the chick in the bicycle helmet to see the
>original.
>

I'm afraid not.

In the Powder Mage series the main female lead is Vlora, a powder mage
herself and a fairly well known member of Field Marshall Tama's corps.
She did take a shower under a waterfall in mixed company, but while
it probably inspired some tired and grungy soldiers some, she wasn't an
icon.

In the 10,000 Names, the main female lead is Winter Isenglass who spends
most of her military career in a man's uniform which I don't think ever
got shredded.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

On 8/09/21 2:13 pm, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Tue, 07 Sep 2021 18:20:09 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 4 Jul 2021 08:05:23 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
>> <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>>
>>> A society of men with no women is seen in various
>>> religious communities, with the question of how
>>> laundry is done addressed by not having any.
>>> However, Captain America's original situation
>>> was an American army camp which I suppose
>>> probably was all guys, I don't know. It really is
>>> not quite the same.
>>
>> In fairness the most common "society of men without women" are either
>> military stories or stories of ships at sea.
>>
>> You simply can't perform Moby Dick or Saving Private Ryan with a 50%
>> female cast.
>
> Of course you can--these days they'd cast a Chinese woman in a
> wheelchair as Ahab.

I approve of that. Wake me up when she has cooked the fish.

(Hang on! This isn't one of Ted Nolan's mermaids with his blanket over
her knees, is it? No. I still approve.)

On Wednesday, September 8, 2021 at 2:48:23 PM UTC+10, Leif Roar Moldskred wrote:
> Ted Nolan <tednolan> <t...@loft.tnolan.com> wrote:
> >
> > The excellent "Merry Poppins Returns" was the same. Now, since the
> > UK never had formal Jim Crow, I'm sure there could have been a few
> > black lawyers in a city the size of London in the 1930s, but they
> > certainly would have been remarkable individuals.
> Ref. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Cole_(barrister)

Or even: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahatma_Gandhi

Certainly remarkable.

-Moriarty

On Thu, 1 Jul 2021 15:44:05 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
wrote:

>>While I'm well aware money doesn't grow on trees, you might also be
>>interested in Apple+' _For All Mankind_, whose opening scenes take place
>>on June 26, 1969, as the world watches Alexei Leonov take the first
>>steps on the Moon...
>
>No, thanks.

Actually I thought it was pretty good and plan on watching season 3

In article <sh9gpe$3ab$1@dont-email.me>, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
>On 8/09/21 2:13 pm, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Tue, 07 Sep 2021 18:20:09 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 4 Jul 2021 08:05:23 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
>>> <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> A society of men with no women is seen in various
>>>> religious communities, with the question of how
>>>> laundry is done addressed by not having any.
>>>> However, Captain America's original situation
>>>> was an American army camp which I suppose
>>>> probably was all guys, I don't know. It really is
>>>> not quite the same.
>>>
>>> In fairness the most common "society of men without women" are either
>>> military stories or stories of ships at sea.
>>>
>>> You simply can't perform Moby Dick or Saving Private Ryan with a 50%
>>> female cast.
>>
>> Of course you can--these days they'd cast a Chinese woman in a
>> wheelchair as Ahab.
>
>I approve of that. Wake me up when she has cooked the fish.
>
>(Hang on! This isn't one of Ted Nolan's mermaids with his blanket over
>her knees, is it? No. I still approve.)

Nah, here they are!

http://tednolan.net/pix/10-07-04-mermaids-gainesville/html/p1130147.html

http://tednolan.net/pix/10-07-04-mermaids-gainesville/html/p1130142.html

http://tednolan.net/pix/10-07-04-mermaids-gainesville/html/p1130125.html

http://tednolan.net/pix/147258/147258.hi/010_08a.jpg
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

Among the things Quadibloc wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 7, 2021 at 10:25:03 PM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> > In article <9dd52a38-fe8a-447a...@googlegroups.com>,
> > Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>
> > >Asimov really did put these characteristic elements of 1960s culture in
> > >this story of the far future.
>
> > s/60s/40s
> Yes, that was when the Foundation Trilogy was written, but these things
> persisted into the early 1960s. I remember seeing something - was it a
> Star Trek episode? - about the 1960s where a time-traveller from the
> future fans herself after escaping from an elevator where people were
> smoking...

Foundation was based on the fall of the Roman Empire. Instead of replacing the attitudes of the author's time with the attitudes of the film-makers' time, why not introduce some from farther afield in the human experience. There was snuff in the original book, (and "scientific research" by comparing what one ancient expert wrote with what another ancient expert wrote; considering Asimov thought "The Martian Way" his protest against McCarthyism, this would be the vice he recoiled from) but that is still recent enough for folks to have opinions on. How about public baths? In fact, something like that was in _The Caves of Steel_. Expect on crowded Trantor we will see at worst "efficiency" apartments with the heavy engineering job of bringing water to and from one room that is used maybe an hour total over a day.

--
-Jack

On Wednesday, 8 September 2021 at 03:31:18 UTC+1, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <sh92te$tsu$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On 7/3/2021 11:05 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> >> On Sat, 3 Jul 2021 21:55:47 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> In article <sbqd3a$74b$1...@dont-email.me>,
> >>> Michael F. Stemper <michael...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> On 30/06/2021 18.41, Kevrob wrote:
> >>>>> On Wednesday, June 30, 2021 at 4:08:34 PM UTC-4, Jibini Kula Tumbili
> >>>> Kujisalimisha wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>> How about recasting Wonder Woman as a man? Prince Dane of the all
> >>>>>> male island of something-mumble, and so on. You *really* think
> >>>>>> there wouldn't be the same (only more so) reaction to a Wonder Man
> >>>>>> movie?
> >>>>
> >>>>> Sometimes a "gender-flip" adds something. My favorite is
> >>>>> Roz Russell as Hildy Johnson, turning "The Front Page" into
> >>>>> "His Girl Friday."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/His_Girl_Friday
> >>>>
> >>>> John Varley went one better in _Steel Beach_ by having Hildy start
> >>>> out (in the novel) as male and then switch to female. Now I need to
> >>>> reread it to see if some character is a Cary Grant analog.
> >>>
> >>> Well, let us know. Now, if you'd generalized it as a
> >>> gender-switching story of any kind with a Cary Grant analog, I'd
> >>> recommend "Some Like It Hot," in which Tony Curtis's character,
> >>> when not hiding from the mob in female clothing, adopts a Cary
> >>> Grant accent to woo Marilyn Monroe's character. He came by the
> >>> accent almost honestly; he was in the US Navy during WWII and
> >>> stationed someplace where there was a projector but only a few
> >>> films, one of which starred Grant. The guys got to the point
> >>> where they knew every line of dialog, so they'd turn the sound
> >>> off and recite the dialog themselves. Curtis got to voice
> >>> Grant.
> >>
> >> It's not really gender-switching, but Cary Grant spends about half of
> >> "Bringing Up Baby" wearing Katherine Hepburn's bathrobe.
> >
> >My wife freaking loves that movie. I must admit that it is hilarious,
> >especially when the guy starts to make the big cat cry and the big cat
> >beats him to it.
> >
> Heh. I have never seen that one, but your description of that
> scene make me want to. If ever I discover that some site that my
> daughter subscribes to is streaming it, I'll watch it. Cats rule.

Wikipedia says it's a tame leopard, from Brazil.

On Tuesday, September 7, 2021 at 11:50:05 PM UTC-4, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Sep 2021 02:18:13 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
> wrote:
>
> >In article <sh92te$tsu$1...@dont-email.me>,
> >Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote:

["Bringing Up Baby"]

> >>My wife freaking loves that movie. I must admit that it is hilarious,
> >>especially when the guy starts to make the big cat cry and the big cat
> >>beats him to it.
> >>
> >Heh. I have never seen that one, but your description of that
> >scene make me want to. If ever I discover that some site that my
> >daughter subscribes to is streaming it, I'll watch it. Cats rule.

> It's on Amazon Prime or iTunes for 3 bucks rental or 12.99 to buy.
>
> It's not on Hulu, Netflix, Showtime, HBO Max, Disney+, Paramount+, or
> Apple+.

Well, I just researched the TCM app; alas, it's not access to the TCM library, it's access to like a week's worth of their schedule. And it requires you to have or spoof a subscription to the cable TCM channel.
(The RKO film library was, I believe, acquired by MGM when RKO went out of business. Turner acquired MGM's library up to the '80s, and later merged with Warners. Content holders still sometimes sell to the distribution arms of other content holders, but I would expect Warners own arm, HBO Max, to get it eventually.)

--
-Jack

On Wednesday, 8 September 2021 at 05:02:23 UTC+1, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Sep 2021 20:59:50 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca>
> wrote:
> >On Wednesday, June 30, 2021 at 9:54:45 AM UTC-6, Steve Coltrin wrote:
> >
> >> Already people are complaining because the trailers show women doing
> >> things other than fetching coffee, and nobody is smoking.
> >
> >Not having read the Foundation Trilogy again *recently*, I thought this was
> >some strange kind of joke. But reading the replies, apparently in the novel
> >Asimov really did put these characteristic elements of 1960s culture in
> >this story of the far future.
> >
> >Obviously, a film adaptation for audiences today of the Foundation Trilogy
> >would be simply _bizarre_ if it depicted an advanced far-future world as
> >so far behind the times even for our age. So while gratuitous political
> >correctness is one thing, these are changes that are obviously necessary.
> I suspect that once cancer is knocked down smoking will come back.

Warren Ellis et al's _Transmetropolitan_ has that premise,
except that mainly smoking is "part of how to be a journalist".
The central character is drawn from Hunter S. Thompson,
which apparently makes him a /columnist/.

However, in real life, there's heart disease and dementia
and probably a ton of other things that smoking does for
you, too. And anyway, vaping is cooler. And very hipster
is a little machine you suck on that /bakes/ tobacco for you.

On Wednesday, 8 September 2021 at 05:33:46 UTC+1, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 7, 2021 at 10:25:03 PM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> > In article <9dd52a38-fe8a-447a...@googlegroups.com>,
> > Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> > >On Wednesday, June 30, 2021 at 9:54:45 AM UTC-6, Steve Coltrin wrote:
>
> > >> Already people are complaining because the trailers show women doing
> > >> things other than fetching coffee, and nobody is smoking.
>
> > >Not having read the Foundation Trilogy again *recently*, I thought this was
> > >some strange kind of joke. But reading the replies, apparently in the novel
> > >Asimov really did put these characteristic elements of 1960s culture in
> > >this story of the far future.
>
> > s/60s/40s
> Yes, that was when the Foundation Trilogy was written, but these things
> persisted into the early 1960s. I remember seeing something - was it a
> Star Trek episode? - about the 1960s where a time-traveller from the
> future fans herself after escaping from an elevator where people were
> smoking...

"About" the 1960s, not "from" ... hmm? _Quantum Leap_
maybe, what was its usual range? How about _Timeless_?

1980s Star Trek "The Royale" is set in a 20th century
hotel... in space. Classic Trek had "Assignment: Earth",
the one with Gary Seven and his /very/ smoky teleporter,
and "A Piece of the Action" which wasn't set in Al Capone's
Chicago but did look like it. But I think your weak sister
would be William Shatner or Leonard Nimoy in that case.
Or Michael Dorn.

In article <d82b0147-a65e-4349-b9d9-7f90002b67f2n@googlegroups.com>,
Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>On Wednesday, 8 September 2021 at 05:33:46 UTC+1, Quadibloc wrote:
>> On Tuesday, September 7, 2021 at 10:25:03 PM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> > In article <9dd52a38-fe8a-447a...@googlegroups.com>,
>> > Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>> > >On Wednesday, June 30, 2021 at 9:54:45 AM UTC-6, Steve Coltrin wrote:
>>
>> > >> Already people are complaining because the trailers show women doing
>> > >> things other than fetching coffee, and nobody is smoking.
>>
>> > >Not having read the Foundation Trilogy again *recently*, I thought
>this was
>> > >some strange kind of joke. But reading the replies, apparently in
>the novel
>> > >Asimov really did put these characteristic elements of 1960s culture in
>> > >this story of the far future.
>>
>> > s/60s/40s
>> Yes, that was when the Foundation Trilogy was written, but these things
>> persisted into the early 1960s. I remember seeing something - was it a
>> Star Trek episode? - about the 1960s where a time-traveller from the
>> future fans herself after escaping from an elevator where people were
>> smoking...
>
>"About" the 1960s, not "from" ... hmm? _Quantum Leap_
>maybe, what was its usual range? How about _Timeless_?
>
>1980s Star Trek "The Royale" is set in a 20th century
>hotel... in space. Classic Trek had "Assignment: Earth",
>the one with Gary Seven and his /very/ smoky teleporter,
>and "A Piece of the Action" which wasn't set in Al Capone's
>Chicago but did look like it. But I think your weak sister
>would be William Shatner or Leonard Nimoy in that case.
>Or Michael Dorn.

http://columbiaclosings.com/pix/21/09/dr_fun_st.jpg
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

On Tue, 07 Sep 2021 23:33:32 -0400, J. Clarke
<jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 7 Sep 2021 20:16:29 -0500, Lynn McGuire
><lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On 7/3/2021 11:05 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> On Sat, 3 Jul 2021 21:55:47 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <sbqd3a$74b$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>> Michael F. Stemper <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 30/06/2021 18.41, Kevrob wrote:
>>>>>> On Wednesday, June 30, 2021 at 4:08:34 PM UTC-4, Jibini Kula Tumbili
>>>>> Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> How about recasting Wonder Woman as a man? Prince Dane of the all
>>>>>>> male island of something-mumble, and so on. You *really* think
>>>>>>> there wouldn't be the same (only more so) reaction to a Wonder Man
>>>>>>> movie?
>>>>>
>>>>>> Sometimes a "gender-flip" adds something. My favorite is
>>>>>> Roz Russell as Hildy Johnson, turning "The Front Page" into
>>>>>> "His Girl Friday."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/His_Girl_Friday
>>>>>
>>>>> John Varley went one better in _Steel Beach_ by having Hildy start
>>>>> out (in the novel) as male and then switch to female. Now I need to
>>>>> reread it to see if some character is a Cary Grant analog.
>>>>
>>>> Well, let us know. Now, if you'd generalized it as a
>>>> gender-switching story of any kind with a Cary Grant analog, I'd
>>>> recommend "Some Like It Hot," in which Tony Curtis's character,
>>>> when not hiding from the mob in female clothing, adopts a Cary
>>>> Grant accent to woo Marilyn Monroe's character. He came by the
>>>> accent almost honestly; he was in the US Navy during WWII and
>>>> stationed someplace where there was a projector but only a few
>>>> films, one of which starred Grant. The guys got to the point
>>>> where they knew every line of dialog, so they'd turn the sound
>>>> off and recite the dialog themselves. Curtis got to voice
>>>> Grant.
>>>
>>> It's not really gender-switching, but Cary Grant spends about half of
>>> "Bringing Up Baby" wearing Katherine Hepburn's bathrobe.
>>
>>My wife freaking loves that movie. I must admit that it is hilarious,
>>especially when the guy starts to make the big cat cry and the big cat
>>beats him to it.
>
>I like Kate's character shift in the jail cell. No change in props,
>camera angle, lighting, costuming, or anything, and she's all of a
>sudden a different person.

And /that/, of course, is the difference between "playing a part" and
ACTING.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Wed, 8 Sep 2021 02:38:36 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
wrote:

>In article <617gjgppdd63utriovj8rtnkhu9gaq0eu9@4ax.com>,
>J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On Tue, 07 Sep 2021 18:20:09 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 4 Jul 2021 08:05:23 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
>>><rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>A society of men with no women is seen in various
>>>>religious communities, with the question of how
>>>>laundry is done addressed by not having any.
>>>>However, Captain America's original situation
>>>>was an American army camp which I suppose
>>>>probably was all guys, I don't know. It really is
>>>>not quite the same.
>>>
>>>In fairness the most common "society of men without women" are either
>>>military stories or stories of ships at sea.
>>>
>>>You simply can't perform Moby Dick or Saving Private Ryan with a 50%
>>>female cast.
>>
>>Of course you can--these days they'd cast a Chinese woman in a
>>wheelchair as Ahab.
>
>Hmmm. You could steal the plot, as _The Wrath of Khan_ did,
>substituting the Chinese woman in a wheelchair for a white male
>American with a wooden leg, and a spacecraft or time machine or
>inter-universe portal for the Pequod. The root of the story is a
>person who has been maimed by a force of nature and is determined
>to have revenge on it. Which is impossible.

/The Personal History of David Copperfield/ is the sort of thing he is
thinking of.

This is a fairly good adaptation of /David Copperfield/ (as usual, it
gets more and more compressed as it goes along, but what's new about
that?) with an ... interesting ... cast. Which I found disturbing,
although I can think of alternative choices (that is, actors whose
characters could have been switched) that would have made it not
disturbing at all.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."