On Wed, 8 Sep 2021 20:04:10 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
wrote:

>On Thursday, July 1, 2021 at 5:06:04 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> Actually it wasn't bad at all. On their _second_ lunar mission the
>> Soviets send a woman, so the US has to hurriedly put the Mercury 13 on
>> official status.
>
>Whereas, in our timeline, when the Russians sent up Valentina Tereshkova,
>the United States only noted that it was a more chivalrous nation which would
>not send women out to do dangerous jobs like exploring space.

She didn't walk on the Moon in 1969. She just rode in the same
capsule that could be operated successfully by a dog.

>So apparently not only did the Russians get to the Moon first, but the equality
>of women has taken on greater importance at an earliler date in the U.S..
>
>John Savard

On 08/09/2021 09.17, Jack Bohn wrote:

> considering Asimov thought "The Martian Way" his protest against McCarthyism,

Considering that the name of the demagogue in "The Martian Way" was
"Hilder", I'm a bit skeptical.

--
Michael F. Stemper
Nostalgia just ain't what it used to be.

Robert Carnegie wrote:
> On Wednesday, 8 September 2021 at 22:05:11 UTC+1, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> > In article <573717e3-0bcf-45e3...@googlegroups.com>,
> > Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
> > >On Wednesday, 8 September 2021 at 20:45:04 UTC+1, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> > >> In article <46b2c1d1-afab-4c86...@googlegroups.com>,
> > >> Jack Bohn <jack....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> >Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >["Bringing Up Baby"]
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >Wikipedia says it's a tame leopard, from Brazil.
> > >> >> I have read that the leopard wasn't all that tame, and a lot of
> > >> >> scenes were shot with a sheet of glass between the cat and the
> > >> >> actors. Do you happen to know if that's true?
> > >> >
> > >> >The IMDb trivia page for it lists a scene where reflections on the glass
> > >> >can be seen.
> > >> >Also a split-screen effect where the leash held by Kate and the leash on
> > >> >the cat are at different angles.
> > >> >
> > >> >(Just recently thanks to IMDb trivia I saw both the on-set reflection of
> > >> >Frank Sinatra in glass and the special effect reflection added to engage
> > >> >him in conversation in "The Joker Is Wild".)
> > >> >
> > >> I've never seen that one either.

The TV listing had it as the story of comedian Joe E. Lewis.
I was thinking Joe E. Brown until I read more carefully.

>Why did they need to encase
> > >> Sinatra in glass? AFAIK he had neither claws nor fangs.
> > >
> > >Just a jack knife.
> > Really? I never saw that!
> No, he keeps it out of sight.

Look out Miss Lotte Lenya!

--
-Jack

Quadibloc wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 8, 2021 at 8:59:15 AM UTC-6, Robert Carnegie wrote:
> > On Wednesday, 8 September 2021 at 05:33:46 UTC+1, Quadibloc wrote:
>
> > > Yes, that was when the Foundation Trilogy was written, but these things
> > > persisted into the early 1960s. I remember seeing something - was it a
> > > Star Trek episode? - about the 1960s where a time-traveller from the
> > > future fans herself after escaping from an elevator where people were
> > > smoking...
>
> But on reflection, the actress I saw fanning the smoke away
> was too famous to have been on Star Trek.

Cheryl Ladd? No, her Louise Baltimore in "Millennium" would have been taking great lungfulls of smoke, I think in the book she contemplates sitting in front of the tailpipe of a car.
--
-Jack

In article <shd12g$682$1@dont-email.me>,
Michael F. Stemper <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 08/09/2021 09.17, Jack Bohn wrote:
>
>> considering Asimov thought "The Martian Way" his protest against
>McCarthyism,
>
>Considering that the name of the demagogue in "The Martian Way" was
>"Hilder", I'm a bit skeptical.

Wellll... considering that the story was published in 1952, when
Hitler was in a Schroeder-state, in which no one knew whether he was
alive or dead, but McCarthy was alive and dangerous, I'm inclined
to take Asimov at his word.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

Michael F. Stemper wrote:
> On 08/09/2021 09.17, Jack Bohn wrote:
>
> > considering Asimov thought "The Martian Way" his protest against McCarthyism,
>
> Considering that the name of the demagogue in "The Martian Way" was
> "Hilder", I'm a bit skeptical.

I can't point to where he claims that as inspiration, but if you are suggesting what I think you are, it is even further along the path of constructing the same logical fallacy, but divorced from the emotions aroused by direct reference.

--
-Jack

On Wed, 8 Sep 2021 16:34:08 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
wrote:

>In article <6a331ccb-3e40-4af2-9fb1-066bcc865b09n@googlegroups.com>,
>Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>>On Wednesday, 8 September 2021 at 03:31:18 UTC+1, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>> In article <sh92te$tsu$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >On 7/3/2021 11:05 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> >> On Sat, 3 Jul 2021 21:55:47 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> In article <sbqd3a$74b$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>> >>> Michael F. Stemper <michael...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>>> On 30/06/2021 18.41, Kevrob wrote:
>>> >>>>> On Wednesday, June 30, 2021 at 4:08:34 PM UTC-4, Jibini Kula Tumbili
>>> >>>> Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>>> How about recasting Wonder Woman as a man? Prince Dane of the all
>>> >>>>>> male island of something-mumble, and so on. You *really* think
>>> >>>>>> there wouldn't be the same (only more so) reaction to a Wonder Man
>>> >>>>>> movie?
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>> Sometimes a "gender-flip" adds something. My favorite is
>>> >>>>> Roz Russell as Hildy Johnson, turning "The Front Page" into
>>> >>>>> "His Girl Friday."
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/His_Girl_Friday
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> John Varley went one better in _Steel Beach_ by having Hildy start
>>> >>>> out (in the novel) as male and then switch to female. Now I need to
>>> >>>> reread it to see if some character is a Cary Grant analog.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Well, let us know. Now, if you'd generalized it as a
>>> >>> gender-switching story of any kind with a Cary Grant analog, I'd
>>> >>> recommend "Some Like It Hot," in which Tony Curtis's character,
>>> >>> when not hiding from the mob in female clothing, adopts a Cary
>>> >>> Grant accent to woo Marilyn Monroe's character. He came by the
>>> >>> accent almost honestly; he was in the US Navy during WWII and
>>> >>> stationed someplace where there was a projector but only a few
>>> >>> films, one of which starred Grant. The guys got to the point
>>> >>> where they knew every line of dialog, so they'd turn the sound
>>> >>> off and recite the dialog themselves. Curtis got to voice
>>> >>> Grant.
>>> >>
>>> >> It's not really gender-switching, but Cary Grant spends about half of
>>> >> "Bringing Up Baby" wearing Katherine Hepburn's bathrobe.
>>> >
>>> >My wife freaking loves that movie. I must admit that it is hilarious,
>>> >especially when the guy starts to make the big cat cry and the big cat
>>> >beats him to it.
>>> >
>>> Heh. I have never seen that one, but your description of that
>>> scene make me want to. If ever I discover that some site that my
>>> daughter subscribes to is streaming it, I'll watch it. Cats rule.
>>
>>Wikipedia says it's a tame leopard, from Brazil.
>
>I have read that the leopard wasn't all that tame, and a lot of
>scenes were shot with a sheet of glass between the cat and the
>actors. Do you happen to know if that's true?

That's probably not an uncommon precaution, at least for actors who
are insured ("damage or death from direct contact with a wild animal
is /not/ covered"), before the various blue-screen/CGI technologies
developed.

The scene in /Dr No/ where the big hairy tarantula is crawling up
Bond's body has always looked to me as if the insect was on a sheet of
glass. If not added later. It just doesn't move right for being in
contact with the actor's skin. IMHO, of course.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Wed, 8 Sep 2021 16:39:34 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
wrote:

>In article <bonhjgl63sh1rro61loq7103speu8slsli@4ax.com>,
>Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>On Wed, 8 Sep 2021 02:38:36 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In article <617gjgppdd63utriovj8rtnkhu9gaq0eu9@4ax.com>,
>>>J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>On Tue, 07 Sep 2021 18:20:09 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Sun, 4 Jul 2021 08:05:23 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
>>>>><rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>A society of men with no women is seen in various
>>>>>>religious communities, with the question of how
>>>>>>laundry is done addressed by not having any.
>>>>>>However, Captain America's original situation
>>>>>>was an American army camp which I suppose
>>>>>>probably was all guys, I don't know. It really is
>>>>>>not quite the same.
>>>>>
>>>>>In fairness the most common "society of men without women" are either
>>>>>military stories or stories of ships at sea.
>>>>>
>>>>>You simply can't perform Moby Dick or Saving Private Ryan with a 50%
>>>>>female cast.
>>>>
>>>>Of course you can--these days they'd cast a Chinese woman in a
>>>>wheelchair as Ahab.
>>>
>>>Hmmm. You could steal the plot, as _The Wrath of Khan_ did,
>>>substituting the Chinese woman in a wheelchair for a white male
>>>American with a wooden leg, and a spacecraft or time machine or
>>>inter-universe portal for the Pequod. The root of the story is a
>>>person who has been maimed by a force of nature and is determined
>>>to have revenge on it. Which is impossible.
>>
>>/The Personal History of David Copperfield/ is the sort of thing he is
>>thinking of.
>>
>>This is a fairly good adaptation of /David Copperfield/ (as usual, it
>>gets more and more compressed as it goes along, but what's new about
>>that?) with an ... interesting ... cast. Which I found disturbing,
>>although I can think of alternative choices (that is, actors whose
>>characters could have been switched) that would have made it not
>>disturbing at all.
>
>I wonder what your reaction would have been to _The Mahabharata_,
>which *could* have been filmed with an all-Indian cast. Instead,
>it was cast with every ethnicity and skin shade to be found on
>this planet. And it worked.

I tried looking it up, but there are quite a few.

Any clue as to which you have in mind? A year, perhaps? A director's
or actor's name?
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Wed, 8 Sep 2021 16:45:10 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
wrote:

>In article <14ohjgdd74nijfp0jhohi0djdea6m5096m@4ax.com>,
>Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>On Wed, 8 Sep 2021 04:13:36 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In article <ipqn0lFrj5eU1@mid.individual.net>,
>>>Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
>>>>In article <qz3FtB.21MG@kithrup.com>,
>>>>Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote:
>>>>>In article <5r3gjg9i46695f5382lu8lqblve1k9i3qv@4ax.com>,
>>>>>The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>On Sun, 4 Jul 2021 08:05:23 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
>>>>>><rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>A society of men with no women is seen in various
>>>>>>>religious communities, with the question of how
>>>>>>>laundry is done addressed by not having any.
>>>>>>>However, Captain America's original situation
>>>>>>>was an American army camp which I suppose
>>>>>>>probably was all guys, I don't know. It really is
>>>>>>>not quite the same.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>In fairness the most common "society of men without women" are either
>>>>>>military stories or stories of ships at sea.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>You simply can't perform Moby Dick or Saving Private Ryan with a 50%
>>>>>>female cast.
>>>>>
>>>>>Not in the mid-nineteenth or -twentieth century in which those
>>>>>books/films are set. In a more egalitarian future, however....
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>The past is already being re-written for kids movies to show kids what
>>>>they expect to see.
>>>>
>>>>This was notably true in the mediocre "The House with a Clock in Its Walls"
>>>>where 1955 Michigan has notably modern ethnic balance and mixing in its
>>>>public shcools.
>>>>
>>>>The excellent "Merry Poppins Returns" was the same. Now, since the
>>>>UK never had formal Jim Crow, I'm sure there could have been a few
>>>>black lawyers in a city the size of London in the 1930s, but they
>>>>certainly would have been remarkable individuals. And it's hard
>>>>to imagine a prestigious bank president's public facing secretary
>>>>having been black.
>>>
>>>Consider that a high-caste Hindu would have been considered
>>>"black" in London.
>>>
>>>(There's this children's book, no longer available for
>>>understandable reasons, called _Little Black Sambo._ Kid gets
>>>treed by a group of tigers, who since they can't climb the tree
>>>run around it faster and faster until they turn into a puddle of
>>>melted butter--_ghi_, in other words. They're in India, not
>>>Africa.)
>>
>>Well, of course they are. Tigers are in India, Lions are in Africa.
>>
>>The cartoon has him defeating the tiger (by turning him into melted
>>butter) /to defend his mother and sister/. I don't recall if that was
>>in the book I had as a very small child,
>
>No. The boy escaped the tigers by staying out of reach till they
>turned themselves to butter.
>
> but I /do/ recall that the
>>butter ended up on a very large plate of pancakes!
>
>Correct. Ghi (that is, clarified butter, that's been melted and
>all the water-based parts of it removed, so it won't go rancid as
>quickly) is important in Indian cookery. Which is why we know
>the tale is set in India.

We know it is set in India because India has Tigers and Africa does
not.

I think the pancakes were also swimming in syrup as well as covered in
butter. Very attractive concept!

>>I don't think the problem is the /story/. I think the problem is that
>>"Sambo" was used by racists as an insult. We have, IOW, only ourselves
>>to blame.
>
>For some values of "we". I never met a black person till eighth
>grade, nor an Indian till university. When I did, I endeavored
>to treat them like people, and I hope I succeeded.

For values of "we" encompassing anyone identifiable as "white" who saw
or heard racist behavior on the part of other "white" people and did
/nothing at all to stop it/. The eclipse of this story is the
consequence of our failure.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Wed, 8 Sep 2021 09:35:04 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohn
<jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote:

>Paul S Person wrote:
>> On Tue, 7 Sep 2021 20:48:12 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca>
>> wrote:
>> >On Wednesday, June 30, 2021 at 2:08:34 PM UTC-6, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>> >> You *really* think
>> >> there wouldn't be the same (only more so) reaction to a Wonder Man
>> >> movie?
>> >
>> >We'll never know, because it would violate a Marvel trademark.
>>
>> Marvel trademarked "Wonder Man"?
>
>Long after Danny Kaye.
>He was a one-off character in a 1964 issue of The Avengers who was brought back later, because, "created by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby."
>By 1986 at the latest, his mark was used in trade on a one-shot comic:
>
>https://www.comics.org/issue/69283/cover/4/
>
>You can see the little TM by the name.
>His name may have been used on a cover before, with an assertion that Marvel was trading on that mark, but I'm not researching it.

Huh.

I learn something every day.

Thanks for the info.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Thu, 09 Sep 2021 00:00:51 -0400, J. Clarke
<jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 8 Sep 2021 20:04:10 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
>wrote:
>
>>On Thursday, July 1, 2021 at 5:06:04 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>>> Actually it wasn't bad at all. On their _second_ lunar mission the
>>> Soviets send a woman, so the US has to hurriedly put the Mercury 13 on
>>> official status.
>>
>>Whereas, in our timeline, when the Russians sent up Valentina Tereshkova,
>>the United States only noted that it was a more chivalrous nation which would
>>not send women out to do dangerous jobs like exploring space.
>
>She didn't walk on the Moon in 1969. She just rode in the same
>capsule that could be operated successfully by a dog.

Ah. An "old reliable". As opposed to the "new and never-before-tried".
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On 2021-09-09 7:09 a.m., Michael F. Stemper wrote:
> On 08/09/2021 09.17, Jack Bohn wrote:
>
>>   considering Asimov thought "The Martian Way" his protest against
>> McCarthyism,
>
> Considering that the name of the demagogue in "The Martian Way" was
> "Hilder", I'm a bit skeptical.
>

<shrug> Asimov was doing Godwin's Law before Godwin's Law was cool.

On 09/09/2021 09.34, Jack Bohn wrote:
> Michael F. Stemper wrote:
>> On 08/09/2021 09.17, Jack Bohn wrote:
>>
>>> considering Asimov thought "The Martian Way" his protest against McCarthyism,
>>
>> Considering that the name of the demagogue in "The Martian Way" was
>> "Hilder", I'm a bit skeptical.
>
> I can't point to where he claims that as inspiration, but if you are suggesting what I think you are, it is even further along the path of constructing the same logical fallacy, but divorced from the emotions aroused by direct reference.

If he actually said that, I withdraw my objection.

--
Michael F. Stemper
Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else.

On Thursday, 9 September 2021 at 03:59:14 UTC+1, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Thursday, July 1, 2021 at 2:05:25 PM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> > In article <sbl3e7$m6e$1...@dont-email.me>,
> > Michael F. Stemper <michael...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >On 01/07/2021 06.40, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>
> > >> As for smoking... probably most 1940s writers
> > >> were kippered up to their elbows,
>
> > >dead fish? huh?
>
> > Kippers are herring that have been preserved by smoking. I never
> > saw "kippered up" as an adjectival phrase before, but then I'm a
> > Yank. It was easy enough to decipher.
>
> Although I've never heard "kippered up", I have heard the use of
> the word as a verb, because I usually hear the fish referred to as
> "kippered herring".

Yes. In fact I meant, "kippered, up to their elbows".
Hands, arms (lower arms), and interior organs fully
smoke-treated. By voluntary tobacco smoking.

In article <g6akjglpk5ehgbauon5jl72e11906vr3j0@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>On Wed, 8 Sep 2021 16:34:08 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>wrote:
>
>>In article <6a331ccb-3e40-4af2-9fb1-066bcc865b09n@googlegroups.com>,
>>Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>>>On Wednesday, 8 September 2021 at 03:31:18 UTC+1, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>> In article <sh92te$tsu$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >On 7/3/2021 11:05 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> >> On Sat, 3 Jul 2021 21:55:47 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>>>> >> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> In article <sbqd3a$74b$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>>> >>> Michael F. Stemper <michael...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>> On 30/06/2021 18.41, Kevrob wrote:
>>>> >>>>> On Wednesday, June 30, 2021 at 4:08:34 PM UTC-4, Jibini Kula Tumbili
>>>> >>>> Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>>> How about recasting Wonder Woman as a man? Prince Dane of the all
>>>> >>>>>> male island of something-mumble, and so on. You *really* think
>>>> >>>>>> there wouldn't be the same (only more so) reaction to a Wonder Man
>>>> >>>>>> movie?
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>> Sometimes a "gender-flip" adds something. My favorite is
>>>> >>>>> Roz Russell as Hildy Johnson, turning "The Front Page" into
>>>> >>>>> "His Girl Friday."
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/His_Girl_Friday
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> John Varley went one better in _Steel Beach_ by having Hildy start
>>>> >>>> out (in the novel) as male and then switch to female. Now I need to
>>>> >>>> reread it to see if some character is a Cary Grant analog.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Well, let us know. Now, if you'd generalized it as a
>>>> >>> gender-switching story of any kind with a Cary Grant analog, I'd
>>>> >>> recommend "Some Like It Hot," in which Tony Curtis's character,
>>>> >>> when not hiding from the mob in female clothing, adopts a Cary
>>>> >>> Grant accent to woo Marilyn Monroe's character. He came by the
>>>> >>> accent almost honestly; he was in the US Navy during WWII and
>>>> >>> stationed someplace where there was a projector but only a few
>>>> >>> films, one of which starred Grant. The guys got to the point
>>>> >>> where they knew every line of dialog, so they'd turn the sound
>>>> >>> off and recite the dialog themselves. Curtis got to voice
>>>> >>> Grant.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> It's not really gender-switching, but Cary Grant spends about half of
>>>> >> "Bringing Up Baby" wearing Katherine Hepburn's bathrobe.
>>>> >
>>>> >My wife freaking loves that movie. I must admit that it is hilarious,
>>>> >especially when the guy starts to make the big cat cry and the big cat
>>>> >beats him to it.
>>>> >
>>>> Heh. I have never seen that one, but your description of that
>>>> scene make me want to. If ever I discover that some site that my
>>>> daughter subscribes to is streaming it, I'll watch it. Cats rule.
>>>
>>>Wikipedia says it's a tame leopard, from Brazil.
>>
>>I have read that the leopard wasn't all that tame, and a lot of
>>scenes were shot with a sheet of glass between the cat and the
>>actors. Do you happen to know if that's true?
>
>That's probably not an uncommon precaution, at least for actors who
>are insured ("damage or death from direct contact with a wild animal
>is /not/ covered"), before the various blue-screen/CGI technologies
>developed.
>
>The scene in /Dr No/ where the big hairy tarantula is crawling up
>Bond's body has always looked to me as if the insect was on a sheet of
>glass. If not added later. It just doesn't move right for being in
>contact with the actor's skin. IMHO, of course.

Tarantulas are actually quite mild-mannered, and won't bite
anything that (a) is too big for them to eat and (b) isn't
threatening them. The Lawrence Hall of Science, in the hills
above Berkeley, used to have a small petting zoo for tarantulas
to be held by children. I suspect they don't any more, because
the tarantulas tend to *shed*, and a kid who picked up some hairs
on their hands and then rubbed their eyes would risk damage to
the eyes.

But to an arachnophobe who has avoided knowing anything about
spiders that they don't have to, the bigger the arachnid, the
more frightening. I'm not going to do the research, but I'd love
to know whether (1a) the tarantula appeared in the original book,
(1b) whether the author was an arachnophobe; (2) whether the
scriptwriter was; (3a) whether Sean Connery was, and (3b) whether
if so, he would have admitted it.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

In article <gkakjgt3o60g6fkmce2vbgniqh7ktctc6i@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>On Wed, 8 Sep 2021 16:39:34 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>wrote:
>
>>In article <bonhjgl63sh1rro61loq7103speu8slsli@4ax.com>,
>>Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>On Wed, 8 Sep 2021 02:38:36 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>In article <617gjgppdd63utriovj8rtnkhu9gaq0eu9@4ax.com>,
>>>>J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>On Tue, 07 Sep 2021 18:20:09 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Sun, 4 Jul 2021 08:05:23 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
>>>>>><rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>A society of men with no women is seen in various
>>>>>>>religious communities, with the question of how
>>>>>>>laundry is done addressed by not having any.
>>>>>>>However, Captain America's original situation
>>>>>>>was an American army camp which I suppose
>>>>>>>probably was all guys, I don't know. It really is
>>>>>>>not quite the same.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>In fairness the most common "society of men without women" are either
>>>>>>military stories or stories of ships at sea.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>You simply can't perform Moby Dick or Saving Private Ryan with a 50%
>>>>>>female cast.
>>>>>
>>>>>Of course you can--these days they'd cast a Chinese woman in a
>>>>>wheelchair as Ahab.
>>>>
>>>>Hmmm. You could steal the plot, as _The Wrath of Khan_ did,
>>>>substituting the Chinese woman in a wheelchair for a white male
>>>>American with a wooden leg, and a spacecraft or time machine or
>>>>inter-universe portal for the Pequod. The root of the story is a
>>>>person who has been maimed by a force of nature and is determined
>>>>to have revenge on it. Which is impossible.
>>>
>>>/The Personal History of David Copperfield/ is the sort of thing he is
>>>thinking of.
>>>
>>>This is a fairly good adaptation of /David Copperfield/ (as usual, it
>>>gets more and more compressed as it goes along, but what's new about
>>>that?) with an ... interesting ... cast. Which I found disturbing,
>>>although I can think of alternative choices (that is, actors whose
>>>characters could have been switched) that would have made it not
>>>disturbing at all.
>>
>>I wonder what your reaction would have been to _The Mahabharata_,
>>which *could* have been filmed with an all-Indian cast. Instead,
>>it was cast with every ethnicity and skin shade to be found on
>>this planet. And it worked.
>
>I tried looking it up, but there are quite a few.
>
>Any clue as to which you have in mind? A year, perhaps? A director's
>or actor's name?

Long enough ago that I have it (in storage) on a Betamax tape. I
can't remember anyone's name, sorry. Looking at IMDB reinforces
your statement that there are quite a few.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

In article <qz67pD.1oGH@kithrup.com>,
Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote:
>In article <shd12g$682$1@dont-email.me>,
>Michael F. Stemper <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On 08/09/2021 09.17, Jack Bohn wrote:
>>
>>> considering Asimov thought "The Martian Way" his protest against
>>McCarthyism,
>>
>>Considering that the name of the demagogue in "The Martian Way" was
>>"Hilder", I'm a bit skeptical.
>
>Wellll... considering that the story was published in 1952, when
>Hitler was in a Schroeder-state, in which no one knew whether he was
>alive or dead, but McCarthy was alive and dangerous, I'm inclined
>to take Asimov at his word.

Sorry, I meant Schroedinger, as in the cat, wanted dead and
alive.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

On Thursday, 9 September 2021 at 04:16:47 UTC+1, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 8, 2021 at 8:59:15 AM UTC-6, Robert Carnegie wrote:
> > On Wednesday, 8 September 2021 at 05:33:46 UTC+1, Quadibloc wrote:
>
> > > Yes, that was when the Foundation Trilogy was written, but these things
> > > persisted into the early 1960s. I remember seeing something - was it a
> > > Star Trek episode? - about the 1960s where a time-traveller from the
> > > future fans herself after escaping from an elevator where people were
> > > smoking...
> > "About" the 1960s, not "from" ... hmm? _Quantum Leap_
> > maybe, what was its usual range? How about _Timeless_?
>
> > 1980s Star Trek "The Royale" is set in a 20th century
> > hotel... in space. Classic Trek had "Assignment: Earth",
> > the one with Gary Seven and his /very/ smoky teleporter,
> > and "A Piece of the Action" which wasn't set in Al Capone's
> > Chicago but did look like it. But I think your weak sister
> > would be William Shatner or Leonard Nimoy in that case.
> > Or Michael Dorn.
>
> I was thinking of some Deep Space Nine episode perhaps.

Oh, this one uses the smoking era as a setting.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far_Beyond_the_Stars>

It's not real time travel but a vision from the Prophets
or something.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadows_and_Symbols>
is a sequel of a sort, casting Benjamin Sisko as a
mental patient under restraint.

And Vic Fontaine is a hologram character who runs a
hologram of a 1960s Las Vegas club. But generally
not with real smoke.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Our_Man_Bashir_(episode)
is a holodeck Janes Bond game where Colonel Anastasia Komananov,
Dr Bashir, and Garak the Cardassian courier are knocked out
by drugged cigar smoke at one point.

> But on reflection, the actress I saw fanning the smoke away
> was too famous to have been on Star Trek.

In that case, you should know who it is. They did have
Joan Collins but she was a 20th century native. Also they
had an episode where Captain Kirk was an American Indian.
Smoking occurred, I expect. He married Sabrina Scharf.
Unrelatedly she was in _Easy Rider_, is that famous enough?

Whoopi Goldberg? She and Deanna Troi meet Mark Twain
during two part episode "Time's Arrow". He visits the
Starship Enterprise and he brings a big cigar but they may
have made him put it out.

Terri Garr was in "Assignment: Earth", but I've rewatched
the "smoky teleporter" scenes and she doesn't seem to
be distressed by that. More by Gary Seven appearing literally
out of nowhere and being grumpy about it.

> Maybe the movie didn't even involve time travel, but I seem
> to remember her experiencing the smoke from a future
> perspective.
>
> John Savard

On Wednesday, 8 September 2021 at 17:13:58 UTC+1, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Sep 2021 04:13:36 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
> wrote:
> >In article <ipqn0l...@mid.individual.net>,
> >Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
> >>In article <qz3Ft...@kithrup.com>,
> >>Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
> >>>In article <5r3gjg9i46695f538...@4ax.com>,
> >>>The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca> wrote:
> >>>>On Sun, 4 Jul 2021 08:05:23 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
> >>>><rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>A society of men with no women is seen in various
> >>>>>religious communities, with the question of how
> >>>>>laundry is done addressed by not having any.
> >>>>>However, Captain America's original situation
> >>>>>was an American army camp which I suppose
> >>>>>probably was all guys, I don't know. It really is
> >>>>>not quite the same.
> >>>>
> >>>>In fairness the most common "society of men without women" are either
> >>>>military stories or stories of ships at sea.
> >>>>
> >>>>You simply can't perform Moby Dick or Saving Private Ryan with a 50%
> >>>>female cast.
> >>>
> >>>Not in the mid-nineteenth or -twentieth century in which those
> >>>books/films are set. In a more egalitarian future, however....
> >>>
> >>
> >>The past is already being re-written for kids movies to show kids what
> >>they expect to see.
> >>
> >>This was notably true in the mediocre "The House with a Clock in Its Walls"
> >>where 1955 Michigan has notably modern ethnic balance and mixing in its
> >>public shcools.
> >>
> >>The excellent "Merry Poppins Returns" was the same. Now, since the
> >>UK never had formal Jim Crow, I'm sure there could have been a few
> >>black lawyers in a city the size of London in the 1930s, but they
> >>certainly would have been remarkable individuals. And it's hard
> >>to imagine a prestigious bank president's public facing secretary
> >>having been black.
> >
> >Consider that a high-caste Hindu would have been considered
> >"black" in London.
> >
> >(There's this children's book, no longer available for
> >understandable reasons, called _Little Black Sambo._ Kid gets
> >treed by a group of tigers, who since they can't climb the tree
> >run around it faster and faster until they turn into a puddle of
> >melted butter--_ghi_, in other words. They're in India, not
> >Africa.)
> Well, of course they are. Tigers are in India, Lions are in Africa.
>
> The cartoon has him defeating the tiger (by turning him into melted
> butter) /to defend his mother and sister/. I don't recall if that was
> in the book I had as a very small child, but I /do/ recall that the
> butter ended up on a very large plate of pancakes!
>
> I don't think the problem is the /story/. I think the problem is that
> "Sambo" was used by racists as an insult. We have, IOW, only ourselves
> to blame.

Per <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Story_of_Little_Black_Sambo>
besides his parents' actual names being Black Jumbo and
Black Mumbo, it was illustrated. And since apparently copyright
wasn't a thing between Europe and the U.S. then, it got pirated,
but with new illustrations in line with American cultural norms
of 1900.

On Thursday, 9 September 2021 at 18:15:03 UTC+1, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <gkakjgt3o60g6fkmc...@4ax.com>,
> Paul S Person <pspe...@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
> >On Wed, 8 Sep 2021 16:39:34 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
> >wrote:
> >
> >>In article <bonhjgl63sh1rro61...@4ax.com>,
> >>Paul S Person <pspe...@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
> >>>On Wed, 8 Sep 2021 02:38:36 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
> >>>wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>In article <617gjgppdd63utrio...@4ax.com>,
> >>>>J. Clarke <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>On Tue, 07 Sep 2021 18:20:09 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca>
> >>>>>wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>On Sun, 4 Jul 2021 08:05:23 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
> >>>>>><rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>A society of men with no women is seen in various
> >>>>>>>religious communities, with the question of how
> >>>>>>>laundry is done addressed by not having any.
> >>>>>>>However, Captain America's original situation
> >>>>>>>was an American army camp which I suppose
> >>>>>>>probably was all guys, I don't know. It really is
> >>>>>>>not quite the same.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>In fairness the most common "society of men without women" are either
> >>>>>>military stories or stories of ships at sea.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>You simply can't perform Moby Dick or Saving Private Ryan with a 50%
> >>>>>>female cast.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Of course you can--these days they'd cast a Chinese woman in a
> >>>>>wheelchair as Ahab.
> >>>>
> >>>>Hmmm. You could steal the plot, as _The Wrath of Khan_ did,
> >>>>substituting the Chinese woman in a wheelchair for a white male
> >>>>American with a wooden leg, and a spacecraft or time machine or
> >>>>inter-universe portal for the Pequod. The root of the story is a
> >>>>person who has been maimed by a force of nature and is determined
> >>>>to have revenge on it. Which is impossible.
> >>>
> >>>/The Personal History of David Copperfield/ is the sort of thing he is
> >>>thinking of.
> >>>
> >>>This is a fairly good adaptation of /David Copperfield/ (as usual, it
> >>>gets more and more compressed as it goes along, but what's new about
> >>>that?) with an ... interesting ... cast. Which I found disturbing,
> >>>although I can think of alternative choices (that is, actors whose
> >>>characters could have been switched) that would have made it not
> >>>disturbing at all.
> >>
> >>I wonder what your reaction would have been to _The Mahabharata_,
> >>which *could* have been filmed with an all-Indian cast. Instead,
> >>it was cast with every ethnicity and skin shade to be found on
> >>this planet. And it worked.
> >
> >I tried looking it up, but there are quite a few.
> >
> >Any clue as to which you have in mind? A year, perhaps? A director's
> >or actor's name?
> Long enough ago that I have it (in storage) on a Betamax tape. I
> can't remember anyone's name, sorry. Looking at IMDB reinforces
> your statement that there are quite a few.

I'm guessing you may have in mind what I want to
call Peter Brook's production, as stage director.

<https://www.translatorscafe.com/cafe/MegaBBS/forumthread18495msg221497.htm>
however - copied from a defunct web page -
is "Jean-Claude Carrière on the Mahabarata" (spelled
better later) and translating it into French with Brook.
But I saw at least some of it on TV in English. Mainly
I remember a pool of water and paradoxical puzzles.
I don't remember the answers, so, don't drink the water.

In article <caa17ff9-5772-461e-93a7-abbc4ab356c4n@googlegroups.com>,
Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>On Thursday, 9 September 2021 at 18:15:03 UTC+1, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> In article <gkakjgt3o60g6fkmc...@4ax.com>,
>> Paul S Person <pspe...@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>> >On Wed, 8 Sep 2021 16:39:34 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>> >wrote:
>> >
>> >>In article <bonhjgl63sh1rro61...@4ax.com>,
>> >>Paul S Person <pspe...@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>> >>>On Wed, 8 Sep 2021 02:38:36 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>> >>>wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>>In article <617gjgppdd63utrio...@4ax.com>,
>> >>>>J. Clarke <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>On Tue, 07 Sep 2021 18:20:09 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca>
>> >>>>>wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>On Sun, 4 Jul 2021 08:05:23 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
>> >>>>>><rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>A society of men with no women is seen in various
>> >>>>>>>religious communities, with the question of how
>> >>>>>>>laundry is done addressed by not having any.
>> >>>>>>>However, Captain America's original situation
>> >>>>>>>was an American army camp which I suppose
>> >>>>>>>probably was all guys, I don't know. It really is
>> >>>>>>>not quite the same.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>In fairness the most common "society of men without women" are either
>> >>>>>>military stories or stories of ships at sea.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>You simply can't perform Moby Dick or Saving Private Ryan with a 50%
>> >>>>>>female cast.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>Of course you can--these days they'd cast a Chinese woman in a
>> >>>>>wheelchair as Ahab.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Hmmm. You could steal the plot, as _The Wrath of Khan_ did,
>> >>>>substituting the Chinese woman in a wheelchair for a white male
>> >>>>American with a wooden leg, and a spacecraft or time machine or
>> >>>>inter-universe portal for the Pequod. The root of the story is a
>> >>>>person who has been maimed by a force of nature and is determined
>> >>>>to have revenge on it. Which is impossible.
>> >>>
>> >>>/The Personal History of David Copperfield/ is the sort of thing he is
>> >>>thinking of.
>> >>>
>> >>>This is a fairly good adaptation of /David Copperfield/ (as usual, it
>> >>>gets more and more compressed as it goes along, but what's new about
>> >>>that?) with an ... interesting ... cast. Which I found disturbing,
>> >>>although I can think of alternative choices (that is, actors whose
>> >>>characters could have been switched) that would have made it not
>> >>>disturbing at all.
>> >>
>> >>I wonder what your reaction would have been to _The Mahabharata_,
>> >>which *could* have been filmed with an all-Indian cast. Instead,
>> >>it was cast with every ethnicity and skin shade to be found on
>> >>this planet. And it worked.
>> >
>> >I tried looking it up, but there are quite a few.
>> >
>> >Any clue as to which you have in mind? A year, perhaps? A director's
>> >or actor's name?
>> Long enough ago that I have it (in storage) on a Betamax tape. I
>> can't remember anyone's name, sorry. Looking at IMDB reinforces
>> your statement that there are quite a few.
>
>I'm guessing you may have in mind what I want to
>call Peter Brook's production, as stage director.
>
><https://www.translatorscafe.com/cafe/MegaBBS/forumthread18495msg221497.htm>
>however - copied from a defunct web page -
>is "Jean-Claude Carrière on the Mahabarata" (spelled
>better later) and translating it into French with Brook.
>But I saw at least some of it on TV in English. Mainly
>I remember a pool of water and paradoxical puzzles.
>I don't remember the answers, so, don't drink the water.

That may be it. It's been so long, I remember only the opening
scene: somebody prepares to tell a story, and says, "I need
someone to write it down." And a voice off-camera cries, "I can
write!" and elephant-headed Ganesha trots in.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 11:20:03 AM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <qz67p...@kithrup.com>,
> Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:

> >Wellll... considering that the story was published in 1952, when
> >Hitler was in a Schroeder-state, in which no one knew whether he was
> >alive or dead, but McCarthy was alive and dangerous, I'm inclined
> >to take Asimov at his word.

> Sorry, I meant Schroedinger, as in the cat, wanted dead and
> alive.

As opposed to the famous pianist who doesn't even need
black keys.

John Savard

On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 1:20:43 PM UTC-6, Robert Carnegie wrote:

> Terri Garr was in "Assignment: Earth", but I've rewatched
> the "smoky teleporter" scenes and she doesn't seem to
> be distressed by that. More by Gary Seven appearing literally
> out of nowhere and being grumpy about it.

It's definitely not that. Teri Garr was, after all, playing Roberta
Lincoln, who was native to the 20th Century. And there were
no scenes of anyone leaving an elevator.

What I remember is a scene like this:

A woman, with a large 60s style hairdo is leaving an elevator
filled with cigarette smoke - she was both made uncomfortable
by it, and surprised to have found it - and is walking to the left
of the screen. Her hair is red.

I do not remember in connection with _which_ movie I saw it.
But I believe it was a major and well-known one.

John Savard

On Thursday, 9 September 2021 at 21:35:03 UTC+1, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <caa17ff9-5772-461e...@googlegroups.com>,
> Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
> >On Thursday, 9 September 2021 at 18:15:03 UTC+1, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> >> In article <gkakjgt3o60g6fkmc...@4ax.com>,
> >> Paul S Person <pspe...@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
> >> >On Wed, 8 Sep 2021 16:39:34 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
> >> >wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>In article <bonhjgl63sh1rro61...@4ax.com>,
> >> >>Paul S Person <pspe...@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
> >> >>>On Wed, 8 Sep 2021 02:38:36 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
> >> >>>wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>>In article <617gjgppdd63utrio...@4ax.com>,
> >> >>>>J. Clarke <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>>>>On Tue, 07 Sep 2021 18:20:09 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca>
> >> >>>>>wrote:
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>>On Sun, 4 Jul 2021 08:05:23 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
> >> >>>>>><rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>A society of men with no women is seen in various
> >> >>>>>>>religious communities, with the question of how
> >> >>>>>>>laundry is done addressed by not having any.
> >> >>>>>>>However, Captain America's original situation
> >> >>>>>>>was an American army camp which I suppose
> >> >>>>>>>probably was all guys, I don't know. It really is
> >> >>>>>>>not quite the same.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>In fairness the most common "society of men without women" are either
> >> >>>>>>military stories or stories of ships at sea.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>You simply can't perform Moby Dick or Saving Private Ryan with a 50%
> >> >>>>>>female cast.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>Of course you can--these days they'd cast a Chinese woman in a
> >> >>>>>wheelchair as Ahab.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>Hmmm. You could steal the plot, as _The Wrath of Khan_ did,
> >> >>>>substituting the Chinese woman in a wheelchair for a white male
> >> >>>>American with a wooden leg, and a spacecraft or time machine or
> >> >>>>inter-universe portal for the Pequod. The root of the story is a
> >> >>>>person who has been maimed by a force of nature and is determined
> >> >>>>to have revenge on it. Which is impossible.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>/The Personal History of David Copperfield/ is the sort of thing he is
> >> >>>thinking of.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>This is a fairly good adaptation of /David Copperfield/ (as usual, it
> >> >>>gets more and more compressed as it goes along, but what's new about
> >> >>>that?) with an ... interesting ... cast. Which I found disturbing,
> >> >>>although I can think of alternative choices (that is, actors whose
> >> >>>characters could have been switched) that would have made it not
> >> >>>disturbing at all.
> >> >>
> >> >>I wonder what your reaction would have been to _The Mahabharata_,
> >> >>which *could* have been filmed with an all-Indian cast. Instead,
> >> >>it was cast with every ethnicity and skin shade to be found on
> >> >>this planet. And it worked.
> >> >
> >> >I tried looking it up, but there are quite a few.
> >> >
> >> >Any clue as to which you have in mind? A year, perhaps? A director's
> >> >or actor's name?
> >> Long enough ago that I have it (in storage) on a Betamax tape. I
> >> can't remember anyone's name, sorry. Looking at IMDB reinforces
> >> your statement that there are quite a few.
> >
> >I'm guessing you may have in mind what I want to
> >call Peter Brook's production, as stage director.
> >
> ><https://www.translatorscafe.com/cafe/MegaBBS/forumthread18495msg221497.htm>
> >however - copied from a defunct web page -
> >is "Jean-Claude Carrière on the Mahabarata" (spelled
> >better later) and translating it into French with Brook.
> >But I saw at least some of it on TV in English. Mainly
> >I remember a pool of water and paradoxical puzzles.
> >I don't remember the answers, so, don't drink the water.
> That may be it. It's been so long, I remember only the opening
> scene: somebody prepares to tell a story, and says, "I need
> someone to write it down." And a voice off-camera cries, "I can
> write!" and elephant-headed Ganesha trots in.

Hmm. Peter Brook's one is actually on YouTube from a way
down this web page,
<https://scroll.in/magazine/881133/mahabharata-doesnt-belong-to-one-country-or-race-peter-brooks-nine-hour-play-is-proof-of-that>
in a 5 and a half hour cut, and something /like/ that happens
after a couple minutes of credits. But not word for word.
It could be in the original text in Sanskrit.

I think I saw a pool table, which doesn't seem right.

In article <46a1777e-2b54-4d18-a5b5-537995ba2160n@googlegroups.com>,
Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>On Thursday, 9 September 2021 at 21:35:03 UTC+1, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> In article <caa17ff9-5772-461e...@googlegroups.com>,
>> Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>> >On Thursday, 9 September 2021 at 18:15:03 UTC+1, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> >> In article <gkakjgt3o60g6fkmc...@4ax.com>,
>> >> Paul S Person <pspe...@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>> >> >On Wed, 8 Sep 2021 16:39:34 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>> >> >wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >>In article <bonhjgl63sh1rro61...@4ax.com>,
>> >> >>Paul S Person <pspe...@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>> >> >>>On Wed, 8 Sep 2021 02:38:36 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>> >> >>>wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>>In article <617gjgppdd63utrio...@4ax.com>,
>> >> >>>>J. Clarke <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>On Tue, 07 Sep 2021 18:20:09 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca>
>> >> >>>>>wrote:
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>On Sun, 4 Jul 2021 08:05:23 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
>> >> >>>>>><rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>A society of men with no women is seen in various
>> >> >>>>>>>religious communities, with the question of how
>> >> >>>>>>>laundry is done addressed by not having any.
>> >> >>>>>>>However, Captain America's original situation
>> >> >>>>>>>was an American army camp which I suppose
>> >> >>>>>>>probably was all guys, I don't know. It really is
>> >> >>>>>>>not quite the same.
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>In fairness the most common "society of men without women"
>are either
>> >> >>>>>>military stories or stories of ships at sea.
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>You simply can't perform Moby Dick or Saving Private Ryan with a 50%
>> >> >>>>>>female cast.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>Of course you can--these days they'd cast a Chinese woman in a
>> >> >>>>>wheelchair as Ahab.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>Hmmm. You could steal the plot, as _The Wrath of Khan_ did,
>> >> >>>>substituting the Chinese woman in a wheelchair for a white male
>> >> >>>>American with a wooden leg, and a spacecraft or time machine or
>> >> >>>>inter-universe portal for the Pequod. The root of the story is a
>> >> >>>>person who has been maimed by a force of nature and is determined
>> >> >>>>to have revenge on it. Which is impossible.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>/The Personal History of David Copperfield/ is the sort of thing he is
>> >> >>>thinking of.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>This is a fairly good adaptation of /David Copperfield/ (as usual, it
>> >> >>>gets more and more compressed as it goes along, but what's new about
>> >> >>>that?) with an ... interesting ... cast. Which I found disturbing,
>> >> >>>although I can think of alternative choices (that is, actors whose
>> >> >>>characters could have been switched) that would have made it not
>> >> >>>disturbing at all.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>I wonder what your reaction would have been to _The Mahabharata_,
>> >> >>which *could* have been filmed with an all-Indian cast. Instead,
>> >> >>it was cast with every ethnicity and skin shade to be found on
>> >> >>this planet. And it worked.
>> >> >
>> >> >I tried looking it up, but there are quite a few.
>> >> >
>> >> >Any clue as to which you have in mind? A year, perhaps? A director's
>> >> >or actor's name?
>> >> Long enough ago that I have it (in storage) on a Betamax tape. I
>> >> can't remember anyone's name, sorry. Looking at IMDB reinforces
>> >> your statement that there are quite a few.
>> >
>> >I'm guessing you may have in mind what I want to
>> >call Peter Brook's production, as stage director.
>> >
>> ><https://www.translatorscafe.com/cafe/MegaBBS/forumthread18495msg221497.htm>
>> >however - copied from a defunct web page -
>> >is "Jean-Claude Carrière on the Mahabarata" (spelled
>> >better later) and translating it into French with Brook.
>> >But I saw at least some of it on TV in English. Mainly
>> >I remember a pool of water and paradoxical puzzles.
>> >I don't remember the answers, so, don't drink the water.
>> That may be it. It's been so long, I remember only the opening
>> scene: somebody prepares to tell a story, and says, "I need
>> someone to write it down." And a voice off-camera cries, "I can
>> write!" and elephant-headed Ganesha trots in.
>
>Hmm. Peter Brook's one is actually on YouTube from a way
>down this web page,
><https://scroll.in/magazine/881133/mahabharata-doesnt-belong-to-one-country-or-race-peter-brooks-nine-hour-play-is-proof-of-that>
>in a 5 and a half hour cut, and something /like/ that happens
>after a couple minutes of credits. But not word for word.
>It could be in the original text in Sanskrit.

I saw it in English; and I believe the film was originally spoken
in French.

But I think you have the right one.

(If it has been in Sanskrit, I might have recognized a word or
two; I had a year of Sanskrit at university, required for the
Linguistics major.)

>I think I saw a pool table, which doesn't seem right.

I don't remember that at all. :)

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/