In message <tuqnnp$15n3$1@gal.iecc.com>, at 21:08:09 on Tue, 14 Mar
2023, John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> remarked:
>According to Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk>:

>>The one that always strikes me as odd is Antarctica - AQ. There's no "Q"
>>in "Antarctica" in any language I know (which I'll admit isn't many).
>
>In French it's Antarctique.
>
>More to the point, AA is permanently reserved, AN used to be
>Netherlands Antilles and is reserved until 2060, and AT AR AC AI are
>all in use. What else would you use?

AIUI ISO deploys the "Q" as a last resort when there's really no
alternative (because they've all been taken, reserved or whatever).
--
Roland Perry

On 15/03/2023 15:46, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 12:24:10 +0000
> Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>> On 15/03/2023 11:52, Bob wrote:
>>> He was elected by the people of Richmond, Yorkshire, taking 63.6% of the
>>> vote.
>>
>> He might have been but he wasn't elected as prime minister by the
>> electorate.
>
> No prime minister has ever been elected by the electorate as we don't have
> a presidential system. HTH.

We always know who will be the PM for whichever party wins so they are
effectively elected by the electorate.

The pomp of being asked by by the ruler to form a government is follows
the formula of a procedure.

On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 08:48:36 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
wrote:

>On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 07:39:28 +0000
>Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>On 14/03/2023 23:37, Recliner wrote:
>>> Was Liz Truss removed in an election?
>>>
>>
>>She wasn't democratically elected either.
>
>Remind us of the percentage of the scottish population who'll get to vote
>in the first minister election.
>
A somewhat higher proportion than ever voted for a Prime Minister.
Also to be remembered is that both positions are ultimately made by
appointment by the Monarch not election but further bearing in mind
that the Monarch hasn't over-ruled the choice of candidate for many
years (Wonkypaedia says 1834).
It is also to be remembered that First and Prime Ministers are not
US-style Presidents as some of the mob seem to think they are.

In message <tut2p2$10amv$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:28:50 on Wed, 15 Mar
2023, Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> remarked:
>On 15/03/2023 15:46, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 12:24:10 +0000
>> Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>> On 15/03/2023 11:52, Bob wrote:
>>>> He was elected by the people of Richmond, Yorkshire, taking 63.6% of the
>>>> vote.
>>>
>>> He might have been but he wasn't elected as prime minister by the
>>> electorate.

>> No prime minister has ever been elected by the electorate as we
>>don't have a presidential system. HTH.
>
>We always know who will be the PM for whichever party wins so they are
>effectively elected by the electorate.

At least initially. New pub-quiz question: Who in recent times was the
most swiftly replaced (after a General Election)?

Cameron perhaps, 14 months.
--
Roland Perry

On 16.03.23 08:24, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <tut2p2$10amv$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:28:50 on Wed, 15 Mar
> 2023, Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> remarked:
>> On 15/03/2023 15:46, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>> On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 12:24:10 +0000
>>> Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 15/03/2023 11:52, Bob wrote:
>>>>> He was elected by the people of Richmond, Yorkshire, taking 63.6%
>>>>> of the
>>>>> vote.
>>>>
>>>> He might have been but he wasn't elected as prime minister by the
>>>> electorate.
>
>>>  No prime minister has ever been elected by the electorate as we
>>> don't have  a presidential system. HTH.
>>
>> We always know who will be the PM for whichever party wins so they are
>> effectively elected by the electorate.
>
> At least initially. New pub-quiz question: Who in recent times was the
> most swiftly replaced (after a General Election)?
>
> Cameron perhaps, 14 months.

Depends on how you define "recent times", everyone post-war lasted
longer, with notables being Wilson after the 1974 (II) election:
election October '74, Callaghan takes over April '76; Eden (election May
'55, Macmillan back in Jan '57).

The real short ones were after the '22 election (election November '22,
Baldwin replaced Bonar Law in May '23, and after the '23 election
(election in December '23, MacDonald replaced Baldwin in Jan '24. The
latter was a case of a hung parliament and Baldwin trying and failing to
continue as a minority government, so perhaps should be discounted, but
Bonar Law was a case of illness forcing his resignation and replacement
by the same party.

Another interesting one that came up with Liz Truss: Who was the last
person to serve as Prime Minister who never led a party at a general
election (either winning to become PM or losing, ending their time as PM)?

Robin

On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 18:28:50 +0000
Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>On 15/03/2023 15:46, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 12:24:10 +0000
>> Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>> On 15/03/2023 11:52, Bob wrote:
>>>> He was elected by the people of Richmond, Yorkshire, taking 63.6% of the
>>>> vote.
>>>
>>> He might have been but he wasn't elected as prime minister by the
>>> electorate.
>>
>> No prime minister has ever been elected by the electorate as we don't have
>> a presidential system. HTH.
>
>We always know who will be the PM for whichever party wins so they are
>effectively elected by the electorate.

No, they're not. They could be changed the next day by the party.

>The pomp of being asked by by the ruler to form a government is follows
>the formula of a procedure.

Irrelevant. Plenty of pomp in governments around the world who no one voted for.

On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 20:10:39 +0000
Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 08:48:36 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 07:39:28 +0000
>>Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>On 14/03/2023 23:37, Recliner wrote:
>>>> Was Liz Truss removed in an election?
>>>>
>>>
>>>She wasn't democratically elected either.
>>
>>Remind us of the percentage of the scottish population who'll get to vote
>>in the first minister election.
>>
>A somewhat higher proportion than ever voted for a Prime Minister.

Really? So the SNP membership is larger than the tory membership who voted
for Liz Truss?

>Also to be remembered is that both positions are ultimately made by
>appointment by the Monarch not election but further bearing in mind
>that the Monarch hasn't over-ruled the choice of candidate for many
>years (Wonkypaedia says 1834).
>It is also to be remembered that First and Prime Ministers are not
>US-style Presidents as some of the mob seem to think they are.

Quite.

On 16/03/2023 09:03, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 18:28:50 +0000
> Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>> On 15/03/2023 15:46, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>> On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 12:24:10 +0000
>>> Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 15/03/2023 11:52, Bob wrote:
>>>>> He was elected by the people of Richmond, Yorkshire, taking 63.6% of the
>>>>> vote.
>>>>
>>>> He might have been but he wasn't elected as prime minister by the
>>>> electorate.
>>>
>>> No prime minister has ever been elected by the electorate as we don't have
>>> a presidential system. HTH.
>>
>> We always know who will be the PM for whichever party wins so they are
>> effectively elected by the electorate.
>
> No, they're not. They could be changed the next day by the party.
When did that last happen?
>
>> The pomp of being asked by by the ruler to form a government is follows
>> the formula of a procedure.
>
> Irrelevant. Plenty of pomp in governments around the world who no one voted for.
>

In message <tuukg9$1b0vd$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:37:28 on Thu, 16 Mar
2023, Bob <bob@domain.com> remarked:
>On 16.03.23 08:24, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <tut2p2$10amv$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:28:50 on Wed, 15 Mar
>>2023, Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> remarked:
>>> On 15/03/2023 15:46, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 12:24:10 +0000
>>>> Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 15/03/2023 11:52, Bob wrote:
>>>>>> He was elected by the people of Richmond, Yorkshire, taking 63.6%
>>>>>>of the
>>>>>> vote.
>>>>>
>>>>> He might have been but he wasn't elected as prime minister by the
>>>>> electorate.
>>
>>>>  No prime minister has ever been elected by the electorate as we
>>>>don't have  a presidential system. HTH.
>>>
>>> We always know who will be the PM for whichever party wins so they
>>>are effectively elected by the electorate.

>> At least initially. New pub-quiz question: Who in recent times was
>>the most swiftly replaced (after a General Election)?

>> Cameron perhaps, 14 months.
>
>Depends on how you define "recent times",

That's up to people offering candidate answers. I think I went back to
WW2.

>everyone

else?

>post-war lasted longer, with notables being Wilson after the 1974 (II)
>election: election October '74, Callaghan takes over April '76; Eden
>(election May '55, Macmillan back in Jan '57).
>
>The real short ones were after the '22 election (election November '22,
>Baldwin replaced Bonar Law in May '23, and after the '23 election
>(election in December '23, MacDonald replaced Baldwin in Jan '24. The
>latter was a case of a hung parliament and Baldwin trying and failing
>to continue as a minority government, so perhaps should be discounted,
>but Bonar Law was a case of illness forcing his resignation and
>replacement by the same party.
>
>Another interesting one that came up with Liz Truss: Who was the last
>person to serve as Prime Minister who never led a party at a general
>election (either winning to become PM or losing, ending their time as
>PM)?

Off the cuff: Gordon Brown and Rishi Sunak; earlier Callaghan. And
Boris's/May/Major's first term, depending on whether there's an
invisible "previously" in front of "led".
--
Roland Perry

On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 09:34:07 +0000
Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>On 16/03/2023 09:03, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 18:28:50 +0000
>> Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>> On 15/03/2023 15:46, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 12:24:10 +0000
>>>> Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 15/03/2023 11:52, Bob wrote:
>>>>>> He was elected by the people of Richmond, Yorkshire, taking 63.6% of the
>>>>>> vote.
>>>>>
>>>>> He might have been but he wasn't elected as prime minister by the
>>>>> electorate.
>>>>
>>>> No prime minister has ever been elected by the electorate as we don't have
>>>> a presidential system. HTH.
>>>
>>> We always know who will be the PM for whichever party wins so they are
>>> effectively elected by the electorate.
>>
>> No, they're not. They could be changed the next day by the party.
>When did that last happen?

Doesn't matter. It could legally happen.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <tuukg9$1b0vd$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:37:28 on Thu, 16 Mar
> 2023, Bob <bob@domain.com> remarked:
>> On 16.03.23 08:24, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <tut2p2$10amv$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:28:50 on Wed, 15 Mar
>>> 2023, Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> remarked:
>>>> On 15/03/2023 15:46, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 12:24:10 +0000
>>>>> Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> On 15/03/2023 11:52, Bob wrote:
>>>>>>> He was elected by the people of Richmond, Yorkshire, taking 63.6%
>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>> vote.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He might have been but he wasn't elected as prime minister by the
>>>>>> electorate.
>>>
>>>>>  No prime minister has ever been elected by the electorate as we
>>>>> don't have  a presidential system. HTH.
>>>>
>>>> We always know who will be the PM for whichever party wins so they
>>>> are effectively elected by the electorate.
>
>>> At least initially. New pub-quiz question: Who in recent times was
>>> the most swiftly replaced (after a General Election)?
>
>>> Cameron perhaps, 14 months.
>>
>> Depends on how you define "recent times",
>
> That's up to people offering candidate answers. I think I went back to
> WW2.
>
>> everyone
>
> else?
>
>> post-war lasted longer, with notables being Wilson after the 1974 (II)
>> election: election October '74, Callaghan takes over April '76; Eden
>> (election May '55, Macmillan back in Jan '57).
>>
>> The real short ones were after the '22 election (election November '22,
>> Baldwin replaced Bonar Law in May '23, and after the '23 election
>> (election in December '23, MacDonald replaced Baldwin in Jan '24. The
>> latter was a case of a hung parliament and Baldwin trying and failing
>> to continue as a minority government, so perhaps should be discounted,
>> but Bonar Law was a case of illness forcing his resignation and
>> replacement by the same party.
>>
>> Another interesting one that came up with Liz Truss: Who was the last
>> person to serve as Prime Minister who never led a party at a general
>> election (either winning to become PM or losing, ending their time as
>> PM)?
>
> Off the cuff: Gordon Brown

No

>and Rishi Sunak;

So far, yes, but he's very likely to still be leader in the next GE.

> earlier Callaghan.

No

> And Boris's/May/Major's first term, depending on whether there's an
> invisible "previously" in front of "led".

All of them were leaders in at least one GE.

<Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 09:34:07 +0000
> Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>> On 16/03/2023 09:03, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>> On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 18:28:50 +0000
>>> Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 15/03/2023 15:46, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 12:24:10 +0000
>>>>> Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> On 15/03/2023 11:52, Bob wrote:
>>>>>>> He was elected by the people of Richmond, Yorkshire, taking 63.6% of the
>>>>>>> vote.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He might have been but he wasn't elected as prime minister by the
>>>>>> electorate.
>>>>>
>>>>> No prime minister has ever been elected by the electorate as we don't have
>>>>> a presidential system. HTH.
>>>>
>>>> We always know who will be the PM for whichever party wins so they are
>>>> effectively elected by the electorate.
>>>
>>> No, they're not. They could be changed the next day by the party.
>> When did that last happen?
>
> Doesn't matter. It could legally happen.

And it's happened in the UK at lower levels of government (eg, London).

In message <tuunqf$1brmg$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:34:07 on Thu, 16 Mar
2023, Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> remarked:
>On 16/03/2023 09:03, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 18:28:50 +0000
>> Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>> On 15/03/2023 15:46, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 12:24:10 +0000
>>>> Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 15/03/2023 11:52, Bob wrote:
>>>>>> He was elected by the people of Richmond, Yorkshire, taking 63.6% of the
>>>>>> vote.
>>>>>
>>>>> He might have been but he wasn't elected as prime minister by the
>>>>> electorate.
>>>>
>>>> No prime minister has ever been elected by the electorate as we don't have
>>>> a presidential system. HTH.
>>>
>>> We always know who will be the PM for whichever party wins so they are
>>> effectively elected by the electorate.

>> No, they're not. They could be changed the next day by the party.

>When did that last happen?

When did what happen - someone using a metaphor?

>>> The pomp of being asked by by the ruler to form a government is
>>>follows

>>> the formula of a procedure.

>> Irrelevant. Plenty of pomp in governments around the world who no
>>one voted for.

--
Roland Perry

<Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 20:10:39 +0000
> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 08:48:36 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 07:39:28 +0000
>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 14/03/2023 23:37, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> Was Liz Truss removed in an election?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> She wasn't democratically elected either.
>>>
>>> Remind us of the percentage of the scottish population who'll get to vote
>>> in the first minister election.
>>>
>> A somewhat higher proportion than ever voted for a Prime Minister.
>
> Really? So the SNP membership is larger than the tory membership who voted
> for Liz Truss?

SNP members are 2.4% of the Scottish electorate
Tory party members are 0.4% of the UK electorate.

On 16.03.23 10:26, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <tuukg9$1b0vd$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:37:28 on Thu, 16 Mar
> 2023, Bob <bob@domain.com> remarked:
>> On 16.03.23 08:24, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <tut2p2$10amv$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:28:50 on Wed, 15 Mar
>>> 2023, Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> remarked:
>>>> On 15/03/2023 15:46, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 12:24:10 +0000
>>>>> Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> On 15/03/2023 11:52, Bob wrote:
>>>>>>> He was elected by the people of Richmond, Yorkshire, taking 63.6%
>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>> vote.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He might have been but he wasn't elected as prime minister by the
>>>>>> electorate.
>>>
>>>>>  No prime minister has ever been elected by the electorate as we
>>>>> don't have  a presidential system. HTH.
>>>>
>>>> We always know who will be the PM for whichever party wins so they
>>>> are  effectively elected by the electorate.
>
>>>  At least initially. New pub-quiz question: Who in recent times was
>>> the  most swiftly replaced (after a General Election)?
>
>>>  Cameron perhaps, 14 months.
>>
>> Depends on how you define "recent times",
>
> That's up to people offering candidate answers. I think I went back to WW2.
>
>> everyone
>
> else?
>
>> post-war lasted longer, with notables being Wilson after the 1974 (II)
>> election: election October '74, Callaghan takes over April '76; Eden
>> (election May '55, Macmillan back in Jan '57).
>>
>> The real short ones were after the '22 election (election November
>> '22, Baldwin replaced Bonar Law in May '23, and after the '23 election
>> (election in December '23, MacDonald replaced Baldwin in Jan '24. The
>> latter was a case of a hung parliament and Baldwin trying and failing
>> to continue as a minority government, so perhaps should be discounted,
>> but Bonar Law was a case of illness forcing his resignation and
>> replacement by the same party.
>>
>> Another interesting one that came up with Liz Truss: Who was the last
>> person to serve as Prime Minister who never led a party at a general
>> election (either winning to become PM or losing, ending their time as
>> PM)?
>
> Off the cuff: Gordon Brown and Rishi Sunak; earlier Callaghan. And
> Boris's/May/Major's first term, depending on whether there's an
> invisible "previously" in front of "led".

Brown and Callaghan both led their parties into General elections and
lost (2010 and 1979 respectively). Major, May and Johnson all led their
parties into General Elections and won[1] (1992, 2017 and 2019
respectively). While Sunak hasn't done so yet, it seems fairly likely
that he will remain both party leader and PM going into whatever is the
next GE.

[1] counting "being in a position to form a government in a nominally
hung parliament" as a win.

Robin

On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 10:02:30 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
><Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 20:10:39 +0000
>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 08:48:36 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 07:39:28 +0000
>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 14/03/2023 23:37, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>> Was Liz Truss removed in an election?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> She wasn't democratically elected either.
>>>>
>>>> Remind us of the percentage of the scottish population who'll get to vote
>>>> in the first minister election.
>>>>
>>> A somewhat higher proportion than ever voted for a Prime Minister.
>>
>> Really? So the SNP membership is larger than the tory membership who voted
>> for Liz Truss?
>
>SNP members are 2.4% of the Scottish electorate
>Tory party members are 0.4% of the UK electorate.

Torie members: 172K
SNP members: 104K

Anyway, his point was ignorant.

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 16:21:13 +0000
>> Graham Nye <nospam@thenyes.org.uk> wrote:
>>> On 2023-03-08 15:04:35, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>> I thought he was busy steering:
>>>
>>> "Our driver could have run from his seat and dashed to the next carriage,
>>> where he might well have been safe,' said Sir Richard. "Instead, he tried
>>> to steer the train to safety."
>>
>> Makes you wonder how he thinks his rocket planes work. Someone lights the
>> touchpaper?
>
> That's why his rocket planes are unworkable - because they're designed for
> human pilots, rather than being 'steered' by computers (like everyone else
> in the industry). This is down to Burt Rutan's 'old school' design
> philosophy.
>
> https://www.wired.com/2015/07/blame-catastrophic-blindspot-virgin-galactic-crash/
>
> (That's Virgin Galactic. Virgin Orbit has conventional rockets, albeit
> air-launched, not rocket planes)

Maybe not for much longer?
<https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-64973383>

On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 10:11:38 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>> Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>> On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 16:21:13 +0000
>>> Graham Nye <nospam@thenyes.org.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 2023-03-08 15:04:35, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>> I thought he was busy steering:
>>>>
>>>> "Our driver could have run from his seat and dashed to the next carriage,
>>>> where he might well have been safe,' said Sir Richard. "Instead, he tried
>>>> to steer the train to safety."
>>>
>>> Makes you wonder how he thinks his rocket planes work. Someone lights the
>>> touchpaper?
>>
>> That's why his rocket planes are unworkable - because they're designed for
>> human pilots, rather than being 'steered' by computers (like everyone else
>> in the industry). This is down to Burt Rutan's 'old school' design
>> philosophy.
>>
>>
>https://www.wired.com/2015/07/blame-catastrophic-blindspot-virgin-galactic-cras
>h/
>>
>> (That's Virgin Galactic. Virgin Orbit has conventional rockets, albeit
>> air-launched, not rocket planes)
>
>Maybe not for much longer?
> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-64973383>

God knows why Branson doesn't just go and sit next to his pool on Necker and
count his money. Which he must have significantly less off by now.

On 16/03/2023 10:09, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 10:02:30 -0000 (UTC)
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 20:10:39 +0000
>>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 08:48:36 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 07:39:28 +0000
>>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> On 14/03/2023 23:37, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>> Was Liz Truss removed in an election?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> She wasn't democratically elected either.
>>>>>
>>>>> Remind us of the percentage of the scottish population who'll get to vote
>>>>> in the first minister election.
>>>>>
>>>> A somewhat higher proportion than ever voted for a Prime Minister.
>>>
>>> Really? So the SNP membership is larger than the tory membership who voted
>>> for Liz Truss?
>>
>> SNP members are 2.4% of the Scottish electorate
>> Tory party members are 0.4% of the UK electorate.
>
> Torie members: 172K
> SNP members: 104K
>
> Anyway, his point was ignorant.

Much as I dislike them, the SNP has a higher proportion. Although I
have no figures, I suspect the percentage of Scots who are Conservative
party members is well below the UK figure of 0.4% anyway.

On 16/03/2023 10:19, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 10:11:38 -0000 (UTC)
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>> Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 16:21:13 +0000
>>>> Graham Nye <nospam@thenyes.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 2023-03-08 15:04:35, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>> I thought he was busy steering:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Our driver could have run from his seat and dashed to the next carriage,
>>>>> where he might well have been safe,' said Sir Richard. "Instead, he tried
>>>>> to steer the train to safety."
>>>>
>>>> Makes you wonder how he thinks his rocket planes work. Someone lights the
>>>> touchpaper?
>>>
>>> That's why his rocket planes are unworkable - because they're designed for
>>> human pilots, rather than being 'steered' by computers (like everyone else
>>> in the industry). This is down to Burt Rutan's 'old school' design
>>> philosophy.
>>>
>>>
>> https://www.wired.com/2015/07/blame-catastrophic-blindspot-virgin-galactic-cras
>> h/
>>>
>>> (That's Virgin Galactic. Virgin Orbit has conventional rockets, albeit
>>> air-launched, not rocket planes)
>>
>> Maybe not for much longer?
>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-64973383>
>
> God knows why Branson doesn't just go and sit next to his pool on Necker and
> count his money. Which he must have significantly less off by now.
>

Not his money.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 10:27:42 +0000
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>On 16/03/2023 10:19, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 10:11:38 -0000 (UTC)
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>>> Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 16:21:13 +0000
>>>>> Graham Nye <nospam@thenyes.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2023-03-08 15:04:35, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>>> I thought he was busy steering:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Our driver could have run from his seat and dashed to the next carriage,
>
>>>>>> where he might well have been safe,' said Sir Richard. "Instead, he tried
>
>>>>>> to steer the train to safety."
>>>>>
>>>>> Makes you wonder how he thinks his rocket planes work. Someone lights the
>>>>> touchpaper?
>>>>
>>>> That's why his rocket planes are unworkable - because they're designed for
>>>> human pilots, rather than being 'steered' by computers (like everyone else
>>>> in the industry). This is down to Burt Rutan's 'old school' design
>>>> philosophy.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>https://www.wired.com/2015/07/blame-catastrophic-blindspot-virgin-galactic-cras
>
>>> h/
>>>>
>>>> (That's Virgin Galactic. Virgin Orbit has conventional rockets, albeit
>>>> air-launched, not rocket planes)
>>>
>>> Maybe not for much longer?
>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-64973383>
>>
>> God knows why Branson doesn't just go and sit next to his pool on Necker and
>> count his money. Which he must have significantly less off by now.
>>
>
>Not his money.

I'm pretty sure he personally bailed out galactic at one point.

<Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 10:11:38 -0000 (UTC)
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>> Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 16:21:13 +0000
>>>> Graham Nye <nospam@thenyes.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 2023-03-08 15:04:35, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>> I thought he was busy steering:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Our driver could have run from his seat and dashed to the next carriage,
>>>>> where he might well have been safe,' said Sir Richard. "Instead, he tried
>>>>> to steer the train to safety."
>>>>
>>>> Makes you wonder how he thinks his rocket planes work. Someone lights the
>>>> touchpaper?
>>>
>>> That's why his rocket planes are unworkable - because they're designed for
>>> human pilots, rather than being 'steered' by computers (like everyone else
>>> in the industry). This is down to Burt Rutan's 'old school' design
>>> philosophy.
>>>
>>>
>> https://www.wired.com/2015/07/blame-catastrophic-blindspot-virgin-galactic-cras
>> h/
>>>
>>> (That's Virgin Galactic. Virgin Orbit has conventional rockets, albeit
>>> air-launched, not rocket planes)
>>
>> Maybe not for much longer?
>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-64973383>
>
> God knows why Branson doesn't just go and sit next to his pool on Necker and
> count his money. Which he must have significantly less off by now.

His investment in these ventures is often tiny, and he's a preferred
creditor if/when Orbit goes under.

I think some of these glamorous investments are just to burnish the brand.
He makes his real money from branding fees from companies where his equity
share is tiny. I believe that Virgin-branded companies have to pay Virgin
Group somewhere between 0.7% and 1% of their revenues for the right to use
the brand (even if they subsequently stop using it). That's billions of
pounds a year.

<Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 10:27:42 +0000
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 16/03/2023 10:19, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>> On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 10:11:38 -0000 (UTC)
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>> Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 16:21:13 +0000
>>>>>> Graham Nye <nospam@thenyes.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2023-03-08 15:04:35, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>>>> I thought he was busy steering:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Our driver could have run from his seat and dashed to the next carriage,
>>
>>>>>>> where he might well have been safe,' said Sir Richard. "Instead, he tried
>>
>>>>>>> to steer the train to safety."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Makes you wonder how he thinks his rocket planes work. Someone lights the
>>>>>> touchpaper?
>>>>>
>>>>> That's why his rocket planes are unworkable - because they're designed for
>>>>> human pilots, rather than being 'steered' by computers (like everyone else
>>>>> in the industry). This is down to Burt Rutan's 'old school' design
>>>>> philosophy.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>> https://www.wired.com/2015/07/blame-catastrophic-blindspot-virgin-galactic-cras
>>
>>>> h/
>>>>>
>>>>> (That's Virgin Galactic. Virgin Orbit has conventional rockets, albeit
>>>>> air-launched, not rocket planes)
>>>>
>>>> Maybe not for much longer?
>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-64973383>
>>>
>>> God knows why Branson doesn't just go and sit next to his pool on Necker and
>>> count his money. Which he must have significantly less off by now.
>>>
>>
>> Not his money.
>
> I'm pretty sure he personally bailed out galactic at one point.

Yes, and Orbit, but the bail-outs tend to be high interest loans and he's a
preferred creditor.

On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 10:09:22 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
wrote:

>On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 10:02:30 -0000 (UTC)
>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>><Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 20:10:39 +0000
>>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 08:48:36 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 07:39:28 +0000
>>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> On 14/03/2023 23:37, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>> Was Liz Truss removed in an election?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> She wasn't democratically elected either.
>>>>>
>>>>> Remind us of the percentage of the scottish population who'll get to vote
>>>>> in the first minister election.
>>>>>
>>>> A somewhat higher proportion than ever voted for a Prime Minister.
>>>
>>> Really? So the SNP membership is larger than the tory membership who voted
>>> for Liz Truss?
>>
>>SNP members are 2.4% of the Scottish electorate
>>Tory party members are 0.4% of the UK electorate.
>
>Torie members: 172K
>
Throughout GB for the main body.

>SNP members: 104K
>
Mostly just in Scotland so multiply by about 10 for a proportionate
comparison.

>Anyway, his point was ignorant.

In message <tuupsb$1c6ko$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:09:14 on Thu, 16 Mar
2023, Bob <bob@domain.com> remarked:
>On 16.03.23 10:26, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <tuukg9$1b0vd$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:37:28 on Thu, 16 Mar
>>2023, Bob <bob@domain.com> remarked:
>>> On 16.03.23 08:24, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <tut2p2$10amv$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:28:50 on Wed, 15
>>>>Mar 2023, Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> remarked:
>>>>> On 15/03/2023 15:46, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 12:24:10 +0000
>>>>>> Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 15/03/2023 11:52, Bob wrote:
>>>>>>>> He was elected by the people of Richmond, Yorkshire, taking
>>>>>>>>63.6% of the
>>>>>>>> vote.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He might have been but he wasn't elected as prime minister by the
>>>>>>> electorate.
>>>>
>>>>>>  No prime minister has ever been elected by the electorate as we
>>>>>>don't have  a presidential system. HTH.
>>>>>
>>>>> We always know who will be the PM for whichever party wins so they
>>>>>are  effectively elected by the electorate.
>>
>>>>  At least initially. New pub-quiz question: Who in recent times was
>>>>the  most swiftly replaced (after a General Election)?
>>
>>>>  Cameron perhaps, 14 months.
>>>
>>> Depends on how you define "recent times",
>> That's up to people offering candidate answers. I think I went back
>>to WW2.
>>
>>> everyone
>> else?
>>
>>> post-war lasted longer, with notables being Wilson after the 1974
>>>(II) election: election October '74, Callaghan takes over April '76;
>>>Eden (election May '55, Macmillan back in Jan '57).
>>>
>>> The real short ones were after the '22 election (election November
>>>'22, Baldwin replaced Bonar Law in May '23, and after the '23
>>>election (election in December '23, MacDonald replaced Baldwin in
>>>Jan '24. The latter was a case of a hung parliament and Baldwin
>>>trying and failing to continue as a minority government, so perhaps
>>>should be discounted, but Bonar Law was a case of illness forcing
>>>his resignation and replacement by the same party.
>>>
>>> Another interesting one that came up with Liz Truss: Who was the
>>>last person to serve as Prime Minister who never led a party at a
>>>general election (either winning to become PM or losing, ending
>>>their time as PM)?
>> Off the cuff: Gordon Brown and Rishi Sunak; earlier Callaghan. And
>>Boris's/May/Major's first term, depending on whether there's an
>>invisible "previously" in front of "led".
>
>Brown and Callaghan both led their parties into General elections and
>lost (2010 and 1979 respectively).

Callaghan became PM in 1976, so wasn't "on the ballot paper" at a prior
general election. Ditto Brown's career.

>Major, May and Johnson all led their parties into General Elections and
>won[1] (1992, 2017 and 2019 respectively). While Sunak hasn't done so
>yet, it seems fairly likely that he will remain both party leader and
>PM going into whatever is the next GE.

But none of them were "on the ballot paper" at the GE before they became
PM, although obviously all but Rishi (and I forgot Truss, which is very
tempting on many grounds) haven't [yet] won a GE as leader.
--
Roland Perry