On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 16:36:50 +0000
Graham Nye <nospam@thenyes.org.uk> wrote:
>On 2023-03-08 16:29:22, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 16:21:13 +0000
>> Graham Nye <nospam@thenyes.org.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> "Our driver could have run from his seat and dashed to the next carriage,
>>> where he might well have been safe,' said Sir Richard. "Instead, he tried
>>> to steer the train to safety."
>>
>> Makes you wonder how he thinks his rocket planes work.
>
>His last one didn't:
>https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-64253375

I was thinking more of virgin galactic which he seems to be personally
invested in and is little more than a fairground ride for the rich.

Is he directly involved in virgin orbit or have they just licensed the name?

I can't see either being a success - the former has been trying for a decade
or more and was beaten by bezos last year , and the rocket under the wing
launch method was tried in the past by other companies but apparently it wasn't
economic as it couldn't launch large payloads. Or something like that.

On 08 Mar 2023 16:40:42 +0000 (GMT)
Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 16:21:13 +0000
>> Graham Nye <nospam@thenyes.org.uk> wrote:
>> >On 2023-03-08 15:04:35, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> >I thought he was busy steering:
>> >
>> >"Our driver could have run from his seat and dashed to the next carriage,
>> >where he might well have been safe,' said Sir Richard. "Instead, he tried
>> >to steer the train to safety."
>>
>> Makes you wonder how he thinks his rocket planes work. Someone lights the
>> touchpaper?
>
>That's why his rocket planes are unworkable - because they're designed for
>human pilots, rather than being 'steered' by computers (like everyone else
>in the industry). This is down to Burt Rutan's 'old school' design
>philosophy.
>
>https://www.wired.com/2015/07/blame-catastrophic-blindspot-virgin-galactic-cras
>h/

Autopilot software needs to be really really REALLY well written and tested
with preferably multiple teams writing the same thing so you have seperate
code running airbus style.

I'm not sure I'd trust a small outfit like them to write and certify this
kind of software with their budget especially given the novel operating mode
of the vehicle.

<Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
> On 08 Mar 2023 16:40:42 +0000 (GMT)
> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>> Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>> On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 16:21:13 +0000
>>> Graham Nye <nospam@thenyes.org.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 2023-03-08 15:04:35, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>> I thought he was busy steering:
>>>>
>>>> "Our driver could have run from his seat and dashed to the next carriage,
>>>> where he might well have been safe,' said Sir Richard. "Instead, he tried
>>>> to steer the train to safety."
>>>
>>> Makes you wonder how he thinks his rocket planes work. Someone lights the
>>> touchpaper?
>>
>> That's why his rocket planes are unworkable - because they're designed for
>> human pilots, rather than being 'steered' by computers (like everyone else
>> in the industry). This is down to Burt Rutan's 'old school' design
>> philosophy.
>>
>> https://www.wired.com/2015/07/blame-catastrophic-blindspot-virgin-galactic-cras
>> h/
>
> Autopilot software needs to be really really REALLY well written and tested
> with preferably multiple teams writing the same thing so you have seperate
> code running airbus style.

Airbuses have advanced FbW systems that are much more sophisticated than
the ordinary autopilot cruise systems long fitted to many other planes.

>
> I'm not sure I'd trust a small outfit like them to write and certify this
> kind of software with their budget especially given the novel operating mode
> of the vehicle.

They could probably develop an ordinary autopilot cruise system, but it's
hardly needed for those short, almost ballistic flights, followed by a
glide down to land. There's no cruise phase in their short flights.

On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 14:18:30 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson
<ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:

>Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 08/03/2023 08:54, Sam Wilson wrote:
>>> Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:
>>>> On 07/03/2023 21:17, Roger Lynn wrote:
>>>>> On 07/03/2023 10:26, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>> In message <tu71r6$c4ds$5@dont-email.me>, at 09:57:58 on Tue, 7 Mar
>>>>>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <tu4bho$1la5f$5@dont-email.me>, at 09:25:12 on Mon, 6 Mar
>>>>>>>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> Greek train crash official charged and taken into custody
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/7105389a-bba7-11ed-b039-425ba6c60d6d
>>>>>>>>> ?shareToken=e80faa5e78374044042498426a72f445>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A Greek stationmaster accused of causing the country’s deadliest train
>>>>>>>>> accident has been charged and taken into custody, his lawyer and legal
>>>>>>>>> officials said.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The accused, 59, who has accepted responsibility for failing to switch
>>>>>>>>> tracks on a freight train — leaving it running on the same line as an
>>>>>>>>> oncoming passenger train packed with university students — was
>>>>>>>>> charged with
>>>>>>>>> multiple counts of negligent manslaughter.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Interesting; this sounds like the error was the person who routed the
>>>>>>>> freight train, not as I think we've all been assuming the one who
>>>>>>>> routed
>>>>>>>> the passenger train.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But that just makes things even odder, because that means *both* trains
>>>>>>>> were supposed to running on the left, rather than the usual right. Or
>>>>>>>> are we also assuming incorrectly that on that stretch of line "usual"
>>>>>>>> was indeed on-the-right?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From this report, it sounds like the train that the 'station master' was
>>>>>>> controlling was the southbound freight, which he despatched wrong
>>>>>>> line for
>>>>>>> some reason (perhaps it had joined the main line from a branch or
>>>>>>> siding?).
>>>>>>> He was then supposed to switch it to the other (right) track, but for
>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>> unknown (to us) reason failed to do so. The northbound express passenger
>>>>>>> train was running right line throughout, probably at line speed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I thought the pictures showed the passenger train running on the left,
>>>>>> whereas in Greece one might expect the correct side normally to be the
>>>>>> right.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (It's unfortunate the word "right" has two meanings, we should be
>>>>>> careful not to be ambiguous in its use).
>>>>>
>>>>> I think there are three potential meanings in this context:
>>>>> - Right hand side verses left hand side,
>>>>> - Right line versus wrong line (although I'm not sure that "right line" is
>>>>>     actually correct British railway usage),
>>>>> - Correct versus incorrect.
>>>>>
>>>>> In the UK the wrong line is usually on the right hand side. A SPAD or
>>>>> faulty set of points might result in a train on an incorrect line, which
>>>>> could be the right line on the left hand side during engineering works.
>>>>>
>>>>> As we are frequently reminded, trains from Ely to Norwich often
>>>>> correctly depart on the wrong line down the up line on the right hand side.
>>>>
>>>> I really hope "right line" isn't used or, if it must be used, that there
>>>> is a very clear understanding of whether it means correct or starboard.
>>>
>>> Using “right hand” or “left hand” would be clear.
>>>
>>
>> The only thing that seems to be clear is that neither knows what the
>> other was doing.
>
>If this wasn’t such a sombre topic that would be very funny.
>
Funny or not, it is something that has long featured in accident
investigations of all types and will continue to do so where the Mk1
homo sapiens is involved. It is the reason we have e.g. interlocking
or things clearly marked "left" and "right" even when there handedness
is identifiable (but not always immediately).

On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 14:36:46 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:

>In message <tua5fm$ug1s$2@dont-email.me>, at 14:18:30 on Wed, 8 Mar
>2023, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <tu9i6e$relm$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:49:18 on Wed, 8 Mar
>>> 2023, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>> The accused, 59, who has accepted responsibility for failing to switch
>>>>>>>> tracks on a freight train — leaving it running on the same line as an
>>>>>>>> oncoming passenger train packed with university students — was
>>>>>>>> charged with
>>>>>>>> multiple counts of negligent manslaughter.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Having dispatched the passenger train wrong line, he should have then
>>>>>>> switched the goods train but didn't. Either that or the report is
>>>>>>>confused.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm still confused. I wonder how large an area he controlled?
>>>>>
>>>>> The news today suggests that for a brief period "all of central Greece".
>>>>>
>>>>>> Given the apparently primitive systems in use, I assumed it was quite a
>>>>>> small area, so he'd be unlikely to be in control of both of the trains
>>>>>> before the collided. So, if he was in control of the freight, he
>>>>>> wouldn't have had anything to do with the passenger express (or vice
>>>>>> versa). And we've not been given any reasons for one of the trains
>>>>>> being routed wrong-line.
>>>>>
>>>>> His finger trouble and/or lack of training, having been on the job only
>>>>> 3 days apparently.
>>>>
>>>> Implying negligent or incompetent management, possibly. Whether any
>>>> inquiry will apportion blame upwards remains to be seen.
>>>
>>> The transport minister resigned last week, and it's beginning to look
>>> like this may bring the entire government down. Not just because of
>>> being a train wreck, but it's exposing systemic under-investment across
>>> many sectors.
>>
>>Indeed, though that’s not the same thing as being found guilty of corporate
>>manslaughter, or whatever the relevant offence would be.
>
>Corporate manslaughter is a very difficult thin to prove. Back in the
>day I had dinner (in Brussels, where we were both there on different
>business) with the Home Office lawyer who had looked into this after the
>Herald of Free Enterprise disaster.
>
It might be difficult in England but other places won't inevitably
match the defining features or strictness of liability for their
version (if any) of the offence.

On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 17:06:01 +0000, Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:

>On 08/03/2023 16:31, Recliner wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <qm3h0ipcplb7pt5h8jqpkudmt6oakmsc4p@4ax.com>, at 13:35:09 on
>>> Wed, 8 Mar 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 12:38:50 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Nor did I that deny there might be a reduction in the force of the
>>>>> collision (although the aftermath could have been worse in a less
>>>>> favorable location).
>>>>
>>>> Are you still interested in being notified of your gradual switch to US
>>>> spelling?
>>>
>>> No.
>>>
>>> Like I said last time you tried to start one of your pointless arguments
>>> about this, there's so many postings to reply to (you being one of the
>>> worst offenders) I don't time to correct my spell-checker back to
>>> UK-English as thoroughly.
>>>
>>> But if course, you knew what I meant, even if seeing US spelling.
>>
>> Of course I knew what you meant. But you had denied that your posts
>> (whoever types them) increasingly used US spelling, and asked me to prove
>> it. Now I have, you say you didn't want to know.
>>
>> And we know you use an ancient, long-unsupported, locally-written news
>> reader. Surely it came with a UK spell checker, if it has one at all?
>
>I don't think America had been invented then.
>
It was there long before Columbus found (or thought he had found) it.

On 08/03/2023 06:46, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <d8mkdj-49s.ln1@castle.rilynn.me.uk>, at 21:17:33 on Tue, 7
> Mar 2023, Roger Lynn <usenet@rilynn.me.uk> remarked:
>>On 07/03/2023 10:26, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <tu71r6$c4ds$5@dont-email.me>, at 09:57:58 on Tue, 7 Mar
>>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <tu4bho$1la5f$5@dont-email.me>, at 09:25:12 on Mon, 6 Mar
>>>>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Greek train crash official charged and taken into custody
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/7105389a-bba7-11ed-b039-425ba6c60d6d
>>>>>> ?shareToken=e80faa5e78374044042498426a72f445>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A Greek stationmaster accused of causing the country’s deadliest train
>>>>>> accident has been charged and taken into custody, his lawyer and legal
>>>>>> officials said.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The accused, 59, who has accepted responsibility for failing to switch
>>>>>> tracks on a freight train — leaving it running on the same line as an
>>>>>> oncoming passenger train packed with university students — was
>>>>>>charged with
>>>>>> multiple counts of negligent manslaughter.
>>>>>
>>>>> Interesting; this sounds like the error was the person who routed the
>>>>> freight train, not as I think we've all been assuming the one who routed
>>>>> the passenger train.
>>>>>
>>>>> But that just makes things even odder, because that means *both* trains
>>>>> were supposed to running on the left, rather than the usual right. Or
>>>>> are we also assuming incorrectly that on that stretch of line "usual"
>>>>> was indeed on-the-right?
>>>>
>>>>From this report, it sounds like the train that the 'station master' was
>>>>controlling was the southbound freight, which he despatched wrong line for
>>>>some reason (perhaps it had joined the main line from a branch or siding?).
>>>> He was then supposed to switch it to the other (right) track, but for some
>>>>unknown (to us) reason failed to do so. The northbound express passenger
>>>>train was running right line throughout, probably at line speed.
>>> I thought the pictures showed the passenger train running on the
>>>left,
>>> whereas in Greece one might expect the correct side normally to be the
>>> right.
>>> (It's unfortunate the word "right" has two meanings, we should be
>>> careful not to be ambiguous in its use).
>>
>>I think there are three potential meanings in this context:
>>- Right hand side verses left hand side,
>>- Right line versus wrong line (although I'm not sure that "right line" is
>> actually correct British railway usage),
>>- Correct versus incorrect.
>>
>>In the UK the wrong line is usually on the right hand side. A SPAD or
>>faulty set of points might result in a train on an incorrect line,
>>which could be the right line on the left hand side during engineering
>>works.
>>
>>As we are frequently reminded, trains from Ely to Norwich often
>>correctly depart on the wrong line down the up line on the right hand
>>side.
>
> As the tracks there are signalled bi-directionally, I'm not sure "wrong
> line" is an appropriate expression.
Are you suggesting that the term "wrong line" only applies when the
signalling does not support the move? That would make it very rare. Many
lines are bidirectionally signalled, and I think any train that goes "up"
the "down line", or vice-versa, as happens at Ely, would usually be counted
as "wrong line".

On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 16:56:14 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:

>In message <_L2OL.1674552$uA%d.684165@fx09.ams1>, at 16:31:54 on Wed, 8
>Mar 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <qm3h0ipcplb7pt5h8jqpkudmt6oakmsc4p@4ax.com>, at 13:35:09 on
>>> Wed, 8 Mar 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 12:38:50 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Nor did I that deny there might be a reduction in the force of the
>>>>> collision (although the aftermath could have been worse in a less
>>>>> favorable location).
>>>>
>>>> Are you still interested in being notified of your gradual switch to US
>>>> spelling?
>>>
>>> No.
>>>
>>> Like I said last time you tried to start one of your pointless arguments
>>> about this, there's so many postings to reply to (you being one of the
>>> worst offenders) I don't time to correct my spell-checker back to
>>> UK-English as thoroughly.
>>>
>>> But if course, you knew what I meant, even if seeing US spelling.
>>
>>Of course I knew what you meant. But you had denied that your posts
>>(whoever types them) increasingly used US spelling,
>
>No I haven't. I've specifically given a reason why. Partly due to the
>blizzard of postings you subject the group to.

<guffaw>

Pot... black etc.

Nobody <jock@soccer.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 16:56:14 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> In message <_L2OL.1674552$uA%d.684165@fx09.ams1>, at 16:31:54 on Wed, 8
>> Mar 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <qm3h0ipcplb7pt5h8jqpkudmt6oakmsc4p@4ax.com>, at 13:35:09 on
>>>> Wed, 8 Mar 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 12:38:50 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Nor did I that deny there might be a reduction in the force of the
>>>>>> collision (although the aftermath could have been worse in a less
>>>>>> favorable location).
>>>>>
>>>>> Are you still interested in being notified of your gradual switch to US
>>>>> spelling?
>>>>
>>>> No.
>>>>
>>>> Like I said last time you tried to start one of your pointless arguments
>>>> about this, there's so many postings to reply to (you being one of the
>>>> worst offenders) I don't time to correct my spell-checker back to
>>>> UK-English as thoroughly.
>>>>
>>>> But if course, you knew what I meant, even if seeing US spelling.
>>>
>>> Of course I knew what you meant. But you had denied that your posts
>>> (whoever types them) increasingly used US spelling,
>>
>> No I haven't. I've specifically given a reason why. Partly due to the
>> blizzard of postings you subject the group to.
>
> <guffaw>
>
> Pot... black etc.
>

In years gone by, someone here used to compile statistics on posters
(numbers of posts, numbers of threads started, etc). I'm not sure how they
did it, and whether their method relied on Google Groups, but it would be
interesting to have such stats today. Of course, there would have to be a
couple of new stats: total posts with a mention of Ely, and posts that
introduced Ely into a thread about something else.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <_L2OL.1674552$uA%d.684165@fx09.ams1>, at 16:31:54 on Wed, 8
> Mar 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
..
>
>> And we know you use an ancient, long-unsupported, locally-written news
>> reader.
>
> It's unsupported, because it doesn't much support. But the author is a
> friend of mine and we discussed maybe some possible support when we met
> last December.
>
>> Surely it came with a UK spell checker, if it has one at all?
>
> If it doesn't have a spell-checker, how on earth would it make sense
> that I agree it's changing some spellings to US-English? Do get a grip!
>
> The spell-checker is locally written and has several good features like
> the ability to add one's own words, but the basic *dictionary* (to which
> several additions have been made such as English place-names) is by an
> American Company. It also has dictionaries for French, Dutch, German,
> Italian and Spanish, because localisation (ha! it wants to put a "z" in
> there) was regarded as very important.

That was an 'interesting' design decision: a local product for local people
not offering a local dictionary.

On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 23:25:59 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
<recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:

>Nobody <jock@soccer.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 16:56:14 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <_L2OL.1674552$uA%d.684165@fx09.ams1>, at 16:31:54 on Wed, 8
>>> Mar 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <qm3h0ipcplb7pt5h8jqpkudmt6oakmsc4p@4ax.com>, at 13:35:09 on
>>>>> Wed, 8 Mar 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 12:38:50 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nor did I that deny there might be a reduction in the force of the
>>>>>>> collision (although the aftermath could have been worse in a less
>>>>>>> favorable location).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are you still interested in being notified of your gradual switch to US
>>>>>> spelling?
>>>>>
>>>>> No.
>>>>>
>>>>> Like I said last time you tried to start one of your pointless arguments
>>>>> about this, there's so many postings to reply to (you being one of the
>>>>> worst offenders) I don't time to correct my spell-checker back to
>>>>> UK-English as thoroughly.
>>>>>
>>>>> But if course, you knew what I meant, even if seeing US spelling.
>>>>
>>>> Of course I knew what you meant. But you had denied that your posts
>>>> (whoever types them) increasingly used US spelling,
>>>
>>> No I haven't. I've specifically given a reason why. Partly due to the
>>> blizzard of postings you subject the group to.
>>
>> <guffaw>
>>
>> Pot... black etc.
>>
>
>In years gone by, someone here used to compile statistics on posters
>Of course, there would have to be a couple of new stats: total posts
>with a mention of Ely, and posts that introduced Ely into a thread
>about something else.

I'd already likely be a poster in the top ten of such an Ely
easement...

In message <07gndj-l6m.ln1@castle.rilynn.me.uk>, at 22:52:47 on Wed, 8
Mar 2023, Roger Lynn <usenet@rilynn.me.uk> remarked:
>On 08/03/2023 06:46, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <d8mkdj-49s.ln1@castle.rilynn.me.uk>, at 21:17:33 on Tue, 7
>> Mar 2023, Roger Lynn <usenet@rilynn.me.uk> remarked:
>>>On 07/03/2023 10:26, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <tu71r6$c4ds$5@dont-email.me>, at 09:57:58 on Tue, 7 Mar
>>>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <tu4bho$1la5f$5@dont-email.me>, at 09:25:12 on Mon, 6 Mar
>>>>>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Greek train crash official charged and taken into custody
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/7105389a-bba7-11ed-b039-425ba6c60d6d
>>>>>>> ?shareToken=e80faa5e78374044042498426a72f445>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A Greek stationmaster accused of causing the country’s deadliest train
>>>>>>> accident has been charged and taken into custody, his lawyer and legal
>>>>>>> officials said.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The accused, 59, who has accepted responsibility for failing to switch
>>>>>>> tracks on a freight train — leaving it running on the same line as an
>>>>>>> oncoming passenger train packed with university students — was
>>>>>>>charged with
>>>>>>> multiple counts of negligent manslaughter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Interesting; this sounds like the error was the person who routed the
>>>>>> freight train, not as I think we've all been assuming the one who routed
>>>>>> the passenger train.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But that just makes things even odder, because that means *both* trains
>>>>>> were supposed to running on the left, rather than the usual right. Or
>>>>>> are we also assuming incorrectly that on that stretch of line "usual"
>>>>>> was indeed on-the-right?
>>>>>
>>>>>From this report, it sounds like the train that the 'station master' was
>>>>>controlling was the southbound freight, which he despatched wrong line for
>>>>>some reason (perhaps it had joined the main line from a branch or siding?).
>>>>> He was then supposed to switch it to the other (right) track, but for some
>>>>>unknown (to us) reason failed to do so. The northbound express passenger
>>>>>train was running right line throughout, probably at line speed.
>>>> I thought the pictures showed the passenger train running on the
>>>>left,
>>>> whereas in Greece one might expect the correct side normally to be the
>>>> right.
>>>> (It's unfortunate the word "right" has two meanings, we should be
>>>> careful not to be ambiguous in its use).
>>>
>>>I think there are three potential meanings in this context:
>>>- Right hand side verses left hand side,
>>>- Right line versus wrong line (although I'm not sure that "right line" is
>>> actually correct British railway usage),
>>>- Correct versus incorrect.
>>>
>>>In the UK the wrong line is usually on the right hand side. A SPAD or
>>>faulty set of points might result in a train on an incorrect line,
>>>which could be the right line on the left hand side during
>>>engineering works.
>>>
>>>As we are frequently reminded, trains from Ely to Norwich often
>>>correctly depart on the wrong line down the up line on the right hand
>>>

>> As the tracks there are signalled bi-directionally, I'm not sure
>>"wrong line" is an appropriate expression.

>Are you suggesting that the term "wrong line" only applies when the
>signalling does not support the move? That would make it very rare.

Yes I think I am, but industry jargon can sometimes differ from
dictionary definitions. In the case of legitimate wrong-line working in
the absence of bi-directional signalling, it would require various
arrangements including individual authorisations from signallers and
perhaps pilots.

>Many lines are bidirectionally signalled,

I'm not sure it's quite that common. But one can tell from scanning the
Opentraintimes maps, if interested.

>and I think any train that goes "up" the "down line", or vice-versa, as

routinely

>happens at Ely, would usually be counted as "wrong line".

If the expression "wrong line" necessarily implies the absence of
bi-directional signalling, that would not be the case. But I wonder what
alternative jargon term might be applied (if at all).
--
Roland Perry

On 08/03/2023 21:54, Charles Ellson wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 17:06:01 +0000, Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:
>
>> On 08/03/2023 16:31, Recliner wrote:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <qm3h0ipcplb7pt5h8jqpkudmt6oakmsc4p@4ax.com>, at 13:35:09 on
>>>> Wed, 8 Mar 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 12:38:50 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Nor did I that deny there might be a reduction in the force of the
>>>>>> collision (although the aftermath could have been worse in a less
>>>>>> favorable location).
>>>>>
>>>>> Are you still interested in being notified of your gradual switch to US
>>>>> spelling?
>>>>
>>>> No.
>>>>
>>>> Like I said last time you tried to start one of your pointless arguments
>>>> about this, there's so many postings to reply to (you being one of the
>>>> worst offenders) I don't time to correct my spell-checker back to
>>>> UK-English as thoroughly.
>>>>
>>>> But if course, you knew what I meant, even if seeing US spelling.
>>>
>>> Of course I knew what you meant. But you had denied that your posts
>>> (whoever types them) increasingly used US spelling, and asked me to prove
>>> it. Now I have, you say you didn't want to know.
>>>
>>> And we know you use an ancient, long-unsupported, locally-written news
>>> reader. Surely it came with a UK spell checker, if it has one at all?
>>
>> I don't think America had been invented then.
>>
> It was there long before Columbus found (or thought he had found) it.

Columbus never discovered, or arrived at America, as in the Good Old US of.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 09.03.23 09:26, Graeme Wall wrote:
> On 08/03/2023 21:54, Charles Ellson wrote:
>> On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 17:06:01 +0000, Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 08/03/2023 16:31, Recliner wrote:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <qm3h0ipcplb7pt5h8jqpkudmt6oakmsc4p@4ax.com>, at
>>>>> 13:35:09 on
>>>>> Wed, 8 Mar 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 12:38:50 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nor did I that deny there might be a reduction in the force of the
>>>>>>> collision (although the aftermath could have been worse in a less
>>>>>>> favorable location).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are you still interested in being notified of your gradual switch
>>>>>> to US
>>>>>> spelling?
>>>>>
>>>>> No.
>>>>>
>>>>> Like I said last time you tried to start one of your pointless
>>>>> arguments
>>>>> about this, there's so many postings to reply to (you being one of the
>>>>> worst offenders) I don't time to correct my spell-checker back to
>>>>> UK-English as thoroughly.
>>>>>
>>>>> But if course, you knew what I meant, even if seeing US spelling.
>>>>
>>>> Of course I knew what you meant. But you had denied that your posts
>>>> (whoever types them) increasingly used US spelling, and asked me to
>>>> prove
>>>> it. Now I have, you say you didn't want to know.
>>>>
>>>> And we know you use an ancient, long-unsupported, locally-written news
>>>> reader. Surely it came with a UK spell checker, if it has one at all?
>>>
>>> I don't think America had been invented then.
>>>
>> It was there long before Columbus found (or thought he had found) it.
>
> Columbus never discovered, or arrived at America, as in the Good Old US of.

Columbus, in his third voyage, visited the coast of South America and
central america in 1498. Cabot found "north America", though it is not
entirely clear whether he only visited the island of Newfoundland or
actually found the mainland. Of course that isn't "USA" either. The
first visit to what is now USA land is probably Juan Ponce de León in
1513, to Florida. It is believed that fishing expeditions from atlantic
ports in parts of Europe were visiting the Grand Banks around the time
of Cabot's voyage, but they generally didn't record where they went (as
they wanted to keep their fishing grounds secret).

Robin

On 09/03/2023 09:16, Bob wrote:
> On 09.03.23 09:26, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> On 08/03/2023 21:54, Charles Ellson wrote:
>>> On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 17:06:01 +0000, Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 08/03/2023 16:31, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <qm3h0ipcplb7pt5h8jqpkudmt6oakmsc4p@4ax.com>, at
>>>>>> 13:35:09 on
>>>>>> Wed, 8 Mar 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 12:38:50 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nor did I that deny there might be a reduction in the force of the
>>>>>>>> collision (although the aftermath could have been worse in a less
>>>>>>>> favorable location).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Are you still interested in being notified of your gradual switch
>>>>>>> to US
>>>>>>> spelling?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Like I said last time you tried to start one of your pointless
>>>>>> arguments
>>>>>> about this, there's so many postings to reply to (you being one of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> worst offenders) I don't time to correct my spell-checker back to
>>>>>> UK-English as thoroughly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But if course, you knew what I meant, even if seeing US spelling.
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course I knew what you meant. But you had denied that your posts
>>>>> (whoever types them) increasingly used US spelling, and asked me to
>>>>> prove
>>>>> it. Now I have, you say you didn't want to know.
>>>>>
>>>>> And we know you use an ancient, long-unsupported, locally-written news
>>>>> reader. Surely it came with a UK spell checker, if it has one at all?
>>>>
>>>> I don't think America had been invented then.
>>>>
>>> It was there long before Columbus found (or thought he had found) it.
>>
>> Columbus never discovered, or arrived at America, as in the Good Old
>> US of.
>
> Columbus, in his third voyage, visited the coast of South America and
> central america in 1498. Cabot found "north America", though it is not
> entirely clear whether he only visited the island of Newfoundland or
> actually found the mainland. Of course that isn't "USA" either.  The
> first visit to what is now USA land is probably Juan Ponce de León in
> 1513, to Florida.  It is believed that fishing expeditions from atlantic
> ports in parts of Europe were visiting the Grand  Banks around the time
> of Cabot's voyage, but they generally didn't record where they went (as
> they wanted to keep their fishing grounds secret).
>

It is now established that the Vikings settled in North America
centuries before Cabot and Columbus arrived.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norse_colonization_of_North_America> That
was also in Newfoundland.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

In message <tub5i7$14lq9$5@dont-email.me>, at 23:25:59 on Wed, 8 Mar
2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Nobody <jock@soccer.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 16:56:14 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <_L2OL.1674552$uA%d.684165@fx09.ams1>, at 16:31:54 on Wed, 8
>>> Mar 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <qm3h0ipcplb7pt5h8jqpkudmt6oakmsc4p@4ax.com>, at 13:35:09 on
>>>>> Wed, 8 Mar 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 12:38:50 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nor did I that deny there might be a reduction in the force of the
>>>>>>> collision (although the aftermath could have been worse in a less
>>>>>>> favorable location).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are you still interested in being notified of your gradual switch to US
>>>>>> spelling?
>>>>>
>>>>> No.
>>>>>
>>>>> Like I said last time you tried to start one of your pointless arguments
>>>>> about this, there's so many postings to reply to (you being one of the
>>>>> worst offenders) I don't time to correct my spell-checker back to
>>>>> UK-English as thoroughly.
>>>>>
>>>>> But if course, you knew what I meant, even if seeing US spelling.
>>>>
>>>> Of course I knew what you meant. But you had denied that your posts
>>>> (whoever types them) increasingly used US spelling,
>>>
>>> No I haven't. I've specifically given a reason why. Partly due to the
>>> blizzard of postings you subject the group to.
>>
>> <guffaw>
>>
>> Pot... black etc.
>>
>
>In years gone by, someone here used to compile statistics on posters
>(numbers of posts, numbers of threads started, etc). I'm not sure how they
>did it,

I think they used some Unix sort tools on a dump of the mailspool.

>and whether their method relied on Google Groups,

No.

>but it would be interesting to have such stats today. Of course, there
>would have to be a couple of new stats: total posts with a mention of
>Ely,

There'd be fewer of those if you didn't keep bringing the subject up. Oh
look, you just did it again!

>and posts that introduced Ely into a thread about something else.

I'm afraid that we all illustrate our postings with examples of things
we have at hand. Even irrelevant comments about what expensive holidays
and exotic foreign destinations you enjoy.
--
Roland Perry

In message <bf5i0ilfpl2d39r8skgi11kdm5a69m2d1l@4ax.com>, at 15:11:09 on
Wed, 8 Mar 2023, Nobody <jock@soccer.com> remarked:
>On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 16:56:14 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <_L2OL.1674552$uA%d.684165@fx09.ams1>, at 16:31:54 on Wed, 8
>>Mar 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <qm3h0ipcplb7pt5h8jqpkudmt6oakmsc4p@4ax.com>, at 13:35:09 on
>>>> Wed, 8 Mar 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 12:38:50 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Nor did I that deny there might be a reduction in the force of the
>>>>>> collision (although the aftermath could have been worse in a less
>>>>>> favorable location).
>>>>>
>>>>> Are you still interested in being notified of your gradual switch to US
>>>>> spelling?
>>>>
>>>> No.
>>>>
>>>> Like I said last time you tried to start one of your pointless arguments
>>>> about this, there's so many postings to reply to (you being one of the
>>>> worst offenders) I don't time to correct my spell-checker back to
>>>> UK-English as thoroughly.
>>>>
>>>> But if course, you knew what I meant, even if seeing US spelling.
>>>
>>>Of course I knew what you meant. But you had denied that your posts
>>>(whoever types them) increasingly used US spelling,
>>
>>No I haven't. I've specifically given a reason why. Partly due to the
>>blizzard of postings you subject the group to.
>
><guffaw>
>
>Pot... black etc.

I've been a bit more active this week, due to a significant backlog to
catch up on.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <07gndj-l6m.ln1@castle.rilynn.me.uk>, at 22:52:47 on Wed, 8
> Mar 2023, Roger Lynn <usenet@rilynn.me.uk> remarked:
>> On 08/03/2023 06:46, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <d8mkdj-49s.ln1@castle.rilynn.me.uk>, at 21:17:33 on Tue, 7
>>> Mar 2023, Roger Lynn <usenet@rilynn.me.uk> remarked:
>>>> On 07/03/2023 10:26, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> In message <tu71r6$c4ds$5@dont-email.me>, at 09:57:58 on Tue, 7 Mar
>>>>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <tu4bho$1la5f$5@dont-email.me>, at 09:25:12 on Mon, 6 Mar
>>>>>>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Greek train crash official charged and taken into custody
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/7105389a-bba7-11ed-b039-425ba6c60d6d
>>>>>>>> ?shareToken=e80faa5e78374044042498426a72f445>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A Greek stationmaster accused of causing the country’s deadliest train
>>>>>>>> accident has been charged and taken into custody, his lawyer and legal
>>>>>>>> officials said.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The accused, 59, who has accepted responsibility for failing to switch
>>>>>>>> tracks on a freight train — leaving it running on the same line as an
>>>>>>>> oncoming passenger train packed with university students — was
>>>>>>>> charged with
>>>>>>>> multiple counts of negligent manslaughter.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Interesting; this sounds like the error was the person who routed the
>>>>>>> freight train, not as I think we've all been assuming the one who routed
>>>>>>> the passenger train.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But that just makes things even odder, because that means *both* trains
>>>>>>> were supposed to running on the left, rather than the usual right. Or
>>>>>>> are we also assuming incorrectly that on that stretch of line "usual"
>>>>>>> was indeed on-the-right?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From this report, it sounds like the train that the 'station master' was
>>>>>> controlling was the southbound freight, which he despatched wrong line for
>>>>>> some reason (perhaps it had joined the main line from a branch or siding?).
>>>>>> He was then supposed to switch it to the other (right) track, but for some
>>>>>> unknown (to us) reason failed to do so. The northbound express passenger
>>>>>> train was running right line throughout, probably at line speed.
>>>>> I thought the pictures showed the passenger train running on the
>>>>> left,
>>>>> whereas in Greece one might expect the correct side normally to be the
>>>>> right.
>>>>> (It's unfortunate the word "right" has two meanings, we should be
>>>>> careful not to be ambiguous in its use).
>>>>
>>>> I think there are three potential meanings in this context:
>>>> - Right hand side verses left hand side,
>>>> - Right line versus wrong line (although I'm not sure that "right line" is
>>>> actually correct British railway usage),
>>>> - Correct versus incorrect.
>>>>
>>>> In the UK the wrong line is usually on the right hand side. A SPAD or
>>>> faulty set of points might result in a train on an incorrect line,
>>>> which could be the right line on the left hand side during
>>>> engineering works.
>>>>
>>>> As we are frequently reminded, trains from Ely to Norwich often
>>>> correctly depart on the wrong line down the up line on the right hand
>>>>
>
>>> As the tracks there are signalled bi-directionally, I'm not sure
>>> "wrong line" is an appropriate expression.
>
>> Are you suggesting that the term "wrong line" only applies when the
>> signalling does not support the move? That would make it very rare.
>
> Yes I think I am, but industry jargon can sometimes differ from
> dictionary definitions. In the case of legitimate wrong-line working in
> the absence of bi-directional signalling, it would require various
> arrangements including individual authorisations from signallers and
> perhaps pilots.
>
>> Many lines are bidirectionally signalled,
>
> I'm not sure it's quite that common. But one can tell from scanning the
> Opentraintimes maps, if interested.
>
>> and I think any train that goes "up" the "down line", or vice-versa, as
>
> routinely
>
>> happens at Ely, would usually be counted as "wrong line".
>
> If the expression "wrong line" necessarily implies the absence of
> bi-directional signalling, that would not be the case. But I wonder what
> alternative jargon term might be applied (if at all).

The railways generally have site-specific names for the various lines, for
instance on the western side of Waverley there are 4 bidirectional lines
through the Mound tunnels which are labelled W, X, Y and Z. Beyond them is
a ladder crossing which feeds into two pairs of unidirectional lines which
I think are Down South, Up South, Down North and Up North. You can see
them on Traksy here: <https://traksy.uk/live/M+1+EDINBUR+-23>. presumably
Ely has similarly unambiguous terms but they don’t seem to be marked on
Traksy’s map.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <tua5fm$ug1s$2@dont-email.me>, at 14:18:30 on Wed, 8 Mar
> 2023, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <tu9i6e$relm$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:49:18 on Wed, 8 Mar
>>> 2023, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>> The accused, 59, who has accepted responsibility for failing to switch
>>>>>>>> tracks on a freight train — leaving it running on the same line as an
>>>>>>>> oncoming passenger train packed with university students — was
>>>>>>>> charged with
>>>>>>>> multiple counts of negligent manslaughter.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Having dispatched the passenger train wrong line, he should have then
>>>>>>> switched the goods train but didn't. Either that or the report is
>>>>>>> confused.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm still confused. I wonder how large an area he controlled?
>>>>>
>>>>> The news today suggests that for a brief period "all of central Greece".
>>>>>
>>>>>> Given the apparently primitive systems in use, I assumed it was quite a
>>>>>> small area, so he'd be unlikely to be in control of both of the trains
>>>>>> before the collided. So, if he was in control of the freight, he
>>>>>> wouldn't have had anything to do with the passenger express (or vice
>>>>>> versa). And we've not been given any reasons for one of the trains
>>>>>> being routed wrong-line.
>>>>>
>>>>> His finger trouble and/or lack of training, having been on the job only
>>>>> 3 days apparently.
>>>>
>>>> Implying negligent or incompetent management, possibly. Whether any
>>>> inquiry will apportion blame upwards remains to be seen.
>>>
>>> The transport minister resigned last week, and it's beginning to look
>>> like this may bring the entire government down. Not just because of
>>> being a train wreck, but it's exposing systemic under-investment across
>>> many sectors.
>>
>> Indeed, though that’s not the same thing as being found guilty of corporate
>> manslaughter, or whatever the relevant offence would be.
>
> Corporate manslaughter is a very difficult thin to prove. Back in the
> day I had dinner (in Brussels, where we were both there on different
> business) with the Home Office lawyer who had looked into this after the
> Herald of Free Enterprise disaster.

“… or whatever the relevant offence would be.” It’s the difference between
resigning or being let go in disgrace and then being free to take another
job vs being charged with a criminal offence of some kind or other.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

In message <tub61l$14nv0$5@dont-email.me>, at 23:34:13 on Wed, 8 Mar
2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <_L2OL.1674552$uA%d.684165@fx09.ams1>, at 16:31:54 on Wed, 8
>> Mar 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> And we know you use an ancient, long-unsupported, locally-written news
>>> reader.
>>
>> It's unsupported, because it doesn't much support. But the author is a
>> friend of mine and we discussed maybe some possible support when we met
>> last December.
>>
>>> Surely it came with a UK spell checker, if it has one at all?
>>
>> If it doesn't have a spell-checker, how on earth would it make sense
>> that I agree it's changing some spellings to US-English? Do get a grip!
>>
>> The spell-checker is locally written and has several good features like
>> the ability to add one's own words, but the basic *dictionary* (to which
>> several additions have been made such as English place-names) is by an
>> American Company. It also has dictionaries for French, Dutch, German,
>> Italian and Spanish, because localisation (ha! it wants to put a "z" in
>> there) was regarded as very important.
>
>That was an 'interesting' design decision: a local product for local people
>not offering a local dictionary.

It's actually a product for a worldwide audience, or didn't you see the
list of European languages I gave? Then it was also aimed somewhat at an
audience of computer geeks, and American is the language spoken there.

CGA = Color Graphics Adapter; HDD = Hard Disk Drive, and so on.
--
Roland Perry

In message <tucg0f$1e3o6$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:30:23 on Thu, 9 Mar
2023, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>> As we are frequently reminded, trains from Ely to Norwich often
>>>>> correctly depart on the wrong line down the up line on the right hand
>>>>>
>>
>>>> As the tracks there are signalled bi-directionally, I'm not sure
>>>> "wrong line" is an appropriate expression.
>>
>>> Are you suggesting that the term "wrong line" only applies when the
>>> signalling does not support the move? That would make it very rare.
>>
>> Yes I think I am, but industry jargon can sometimes differ from
>> dictionary definitions. In the case of legitimate wrong-line working in
>> the absence of bi-directional signalling, it would require various
>> arrangements including individual authorisations from signallers and
>> perhaps pilots.
>>
>>> Many lines are bidirectionally signalled,
>>
>> I'm not sure it's quite that common. But one can tell from scanning the
>> Opentraintimes maps, if interested.
>>
>>> and I think any train that goes "up" the "down line", or vice-versa, as
>>
>> routinely
>>
>>> happens at Ely, would usually be counted as "wrong line".
>>
>> If the expression "wrong line" necessarily implies the absence of
>> bi-directional signalling, that would not be the case. But I wonder what
>> alternative jargon term might be applied (if at all).
>
>The railways generally have site-specific names for the various lines, for
>instance on the western side of Waverley there are 4 bidirectional lines
>through the Mound tunnels which are labelled W, X, Y and Z. Beyond them is
>a ladder crossing which feeds into two pairs of unidirectional lines which
>I think are Down South, Up South, Down North and Up North. You can see
>them on Traksy here: <https://traksy.uk/live/M+1+EDINBUR+-23>. presumably
>Ely has similarly unambiguous terms but they don’t seem to be marked on
>Traksy’s map.

Naming a line like that is rather different to a description of whether
it's the correct or incorrect one to be using.

But yes we do have some, like the West Curve, Goods Loop and the
Reception Siding. Each of which adds extra interest to the location!

The Papworth Sidings are good value for money too, but aren't used by
service trains.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <tub61l$14nv0$5@dont-email.me>, at 23:34:13 on Wed, 8 Mar
> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <_L2OL.1674552$uA%d.684165@fx09.ams1>, at 16:31:54 on Wed, 8
>>> Mar 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> And we know you use an ancient, long-unsupported, locally-written news
>>>> reader.
>>>
>>> It's unsupported, because it doesn't much support. But the author is a
>>> friend of mine and we discussed maybe some possible support when we met
>>> last December.
>>>
>>>> Surely it came with a UK spell checker, if it has one at all?
>>>
>>> If it doesn't have a spell-checker, how on earth would it make sense
>>> that I agree it's changing some spellings to US-English? Do get a grip!
>>>
>>> The spell-checker is locally written and has several good features like
>>> the ability to add one's own words, but the basic *dictionary* (to which
>>> several additions have been made such as English place-names) is by an
>>> American Company. It also has dictionaries for French, Dutch, German,
>>> Italian and Spanish, because localisation (ha! it wants to put a "z" in
>>> there) was regarded as very important.
>>
>> That was an 'interesting' design decision: a local product for local people
>> not offering a local dictionary.
>
> It's actually a product for a worldwide audience, or didn't you see the
> list of European languages I gave? Then it was also aimed somewhat at an
> audience of computer geeks, and American is the language spoken there.
>
> CGA = Color Graphics Adapter; HDD = Hard Disk Drive, and so on.

How many Americans ever used it?

In message <tucgl3$1e7av$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:41:23 on Thu, 9 Mar
2023, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <tua5fm$ug1s$2@dont-email.me>, at 14:18:30 on Wed, 8 Mar
>> 2023, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <tu9i6e$relm$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:49:18 on Wed, 8 Mar
>>>> 2023, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> The accused, 59, who has accepted responsibility for failing to switch
>>>>>>>>> tracks on a freight train — leaving it running on the same
>>>>>>>>>line as an
>>>>>>>>> oncoming passenger train packed with university students — was
>>>>>>>>> charged with
>>>>>>>>> multiple counts of negligent manslaughter.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Having dispatched the passenger train wrong line, he should have then
>>>>>>>> switched the goods train but didn't. Either that or the report is
>>>>>>>> confused.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm still confused. I wonder how large an area he controlled?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The news today suggests that for a brief period "all of central Greece".
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Given the apparently primitive systems in use, I assumed it was quite a
>>>>>>> small area, so he'd be unlikely to be in control of both of the trains
>>>>>>> before the collided. So, if he was in control of the freight, he
>>>>>>> wouldn't have had anything to do with the passenger express (or vice
>>>>>>> versa). And we've not been given any reasons for one of the trains
>>>>>>> being routed wrong-line.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> His finger trouble and/or lack of training, having been on the job only
>>>>>> 3 days apparently.
>>>>>
>>>>> Implying negligent or incompetent management, possibly. Whether any
>>>>> inquiry will apportion blame upwards remains to be seen.
>>>>
>>>> The transport minister resigned last week, and it's beginning to look
>>>> like this may bring the entire government down. Not just because of
>>>> being a train wreck, but it's exposing systemic under-investment across
>>>> many sectors.
>>>
>>> Indeed, though that’s not the same thing as being found guilty of
>>>corporate manslaughter, or whatever the relevant offence would be.
>>
>> Corporate manslaughter is a very difficult thin to prove. Back in the
>> day I had dinner (in Brussels, where we were both there on different
>> business) with the Home Office lawyer who had looked into this after the
>> Herald of Free Enterprise disaster.
>
>“… or whatever the relevant offence would be.”

Whatever name it has, proving the corporate responsibility is likely to
be just as difficult.

>It’s the difference between resigning or being let go in disgrace and
>then being free to take another job vs being charged with a criminal
>offence of some kind or other.

But that's *personal* responsibility [/liability].
--
Roland Perry

> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> It's actually a product for a worldwide audience, or didn't you see the
>> list of European languages I gave? Then it was also aimed somewhat at an
>> audience of computer geeks, and American is the language spoken there.
>>
>> CGA = Color Graphics Adapter; HDD = Hard Disk Drive, and so on.

But CD = Compact Disc ;-) Because Philips chose to use the UK spelling.

It's interesting that US spelling has prevailed in the UK for
computer-related words such as "program" and "disk", but we still use our
own spelling for "colour" as in "16-million-colour graphics mode". I think
"disk" is regarded as a less US-specific spelling than "program": I've seen
some UK car-related information referring to "disk brakes".

I resist most imposed US spellings, but I do think that "jail" is a *much*
better spelling than "gaol". If "jail" is regarded as too American, I'll use
"prison" in preference to "gaol" which is as absurd and archaic as
"connexion", "alarum" and "shew" (connection, alarm and show) ;-)

NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> It's actually a product for a worldwide audience, or didn't you see the
>>> list of European languages I gave? Then it was also aimed somewhat at an
>>> audience of computer geeks, and American is the language spoken there.
>>>
>>> CGA = Color Graphics Adapter; HDD = Hard Disk Drive, and so on.
>
> But CD = Compact Disc ;-) Because Philips chose to use the UK spelling.
>
> It's interesting that US spelling has prevailed in the UK for
> computer-related words such as "program" and "disk", but we still use our
> own spelling for "colour" as in "16-million-colour graphics mode". I think
> "disk" is regarded as a less US-specific spelling than "program": I've seen
> some UK car-related information referring to "disk brakes".

Program and programme have now acquired different meanings here: we have
computer programs but TV programmes.

>
> I resist most imposed US spellings, but I do think that "jail" is a *much*
> better spelling than "gaol". If "jail" is regarded as too American, I'll use
> "prison" in preference to "gaol" which is as absurd and archaic as
> "connexion", "alarum" and "shew" (connection, alarm and show) ;-)

Yes, agreed.