In message <tumpdo$3kvlv$2@dont-email.me>, at 10:12:22 on Mon, 13 Mar
2023, Bob <bob@domain.com> remarked:
>On 12.03.23 17:10, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> On Sun, 12 Mar 2023 07:35:18 +0000
>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 11 Mar 2023 16:54:15 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>> wrote:
>>>>> Of course they do, just because a load of immigrants arrived doesn't
>>>>> mean the locals just got up and left.
>>>>
>>>> Obviously you've never been to Tottenham ;)
>>>>
>>> I have on numerous occasions and they quite clearly haven't left.

>> Really? Visit any high street in an arc from wood green through
>>tottenham to walthamstow and have a listen to how often you hear
>>english spoken. And if you do it'll probably be in a foreign accent
>>and when the accent is british it'll probably be from an afro
>>caribbean or asian. The majority of white londoners legged it long
>>ago north, east and west.
>
>This is something that is changing quite rapidly right now. A change in
>government policy a few years ago that removed the obligation on
>boroughs to provide housing within the borough for people from the
>borough who need housing assistance. The result is the younger
>generation starting perhaps 15 years ago, are all now being shipped out
>of places like Hackney, Bethnal Green and Tottenham to places like
>Southend. Similarly in SE London people are being shipped out to places
>like the Medway towns.

Places like Bracknell, Harlow and Basildon were built as over-spill.

The latter famously didn't have a railway station to begin with (despite
being next to the tracks) because people were expected to work locally.

Both Northstowe (original trigger for the mis-guided bus) and now
Waterbeach, are both major housing projects with a significant
"affordable housing" element. It'll be interesting to see if they move
Waterbeach station, which was the original plan. Or maybe just
facilitate local transport to the existing station, which is
inconveniently distant to the south.

>In the same way that places like Notting Hill and Brixton that were in
>the past associated with Carribean immigrant communities are now all
>well to middle class suburbs, the same is going to happen to these
>places.
>
>Robin

--
Roland Perry

In message <tumr24$3m6lk$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:40:20 on Mon, 13 Mar
2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 09:45:22 +0100
>Bob <bob@domain.com> wrote:
>>On 13.03.23 00:07, Sam Wilson wrote:
>>> NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:tuib12$2jal8$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>> On Sat, 11 Mar 2023 17:28:11 +0100
>>>>> Bob <bob@domain.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 11.03.23 17:16, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>>>>> Technically the irish are also british because the british isles is
>>>>>> everywhere
>>>>>>> the native britons used to live which includes the island of ireland.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Depends which definition of "British" you are using. If you want to get
>>>>>> all technical, only the Welsh and Cornish are the only actually British
>>>>>> people, the Brittons no longer live in the rest of the British Isles.
>>>>>
>>>>> Doesn't change anything. Great Britain is the geographical name for this
>>>>> island ergo its natives are British.
>>>>
>>>> There needs to be an equivalent term to "British" which means "of
>>>>the United
>>
>>>> Kingdom" so as to also include people from Northern Ireland. Mind you, many
>>>> people seem to use "Great Britain" and "United Kingdom" interchangeably,
>>>> forgetting the one is Eng, Scot, Wales and the other is Eng, Scot, Wales,
>>>> NI. Did cars from Northern Ireland carry an oval GB sticker or (more
>>>> recently) have GB on the blue sidebar of the EU-standard number plates. Or
>>>> did they have separate letters "NI"?
>>>
>>> Until the days of BoJo the Evil Clown the international car registration
>>> letters for the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland were
>>> GB, as is the ISO 3166 two-letter abbreviation, which has been a source of
>>> tension in some quarters. They are now UK, which matches the DNS top level
>>> domain, and is also a source of tension in some quarters.
>>
>>AIUI there was some dispute with Ukraine about the use of the letters UK
>>for certain purposes, so the compromise was for them to use UA and us to
>>use GB.
>
>Given they use the cyrillic alphabet why didn't ukraine just use yk?

Ukraine unilaterally (in what arena) or do you mean ISO's designation on
their behalf (which I'm sure would have been debated at extreme length).
--
Roland Perry

In message <tumnr4$3kvlv$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:45:22 on Mon, 13 Mar
2023, Bob <bob@domain.com> remarked:
>On 13.03.23 00:07, Sam Wilson wrote:
>> NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote in message
>>> news:tuib12$2jal8$1@dont-email.me...
>>>> On Sat, 11 Mar 2023 17:28:11 +0100
>>>> Bob <bob@domain.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 11.03.23 17:16, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>>>> Technically the irish are also british because the british isles is
>>>>> everywhere
>>>>>> the native britons used to live which includes the island of ireland.
>>>>>
>>>>> Depends which definition of "British" you are using. If you want to get
>>>>> all technical, only the Welsh and Cornish are the only actually British
>>>>> people, the Brittons no longer live in the rest of the British Isles.
>>>>
>>>> Doesn't change anything. Great Britain is the geographical name for this
>>>> island ergo its natives are British.
>>>
>>> There needs to be an equivalent term to "British" which means "of the United
>>> Kingdom" so as to also include people from Northern Ireland. Mind you, many
>>> people seem to use "Great Britain" and "United Kingdom" interchangeably,
>>> forgetting the one is Eng, Scot, Wales and the other is Eng, Scot, Wales,
>>> NI. Did cars from Northern Ireland carry an oval GB sticker or (more
>>> recently) have GB on the blue sidebar of the EU-standard number plates. Or
>>> did they have separate letters "NI"?

>> Until the days of BoJo the Evil Clown the international car
>>registration letters for the United Kingdom of Great Britain and
>>Northern Ireland were GB, as is the ISO 3166 two-letter abbreviation,
>>which has been a source of tension in some quarters. They are now
>>UK, which matches the DNS top level domain, and is also a source of
>>tension in some quarters.
>
>AIUI there was some dispute with Ukraine about the use of the letters
>UK for certain purposes, so the compromise was for them to use UA and
>us to use GB.

In what arena, and when?
--
Roland Perry

<Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 00:26:56 +0000
> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 12 Mar 2023 23:07:47 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson
>> <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:tuib12$2jal8$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>> On Sat, 11 Mar 2023 17:28:11 +0100
>>>>> Bob <bob@domain.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 11.03.23 17:16, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>>>>> Technically the irish are also british because the british isles is
>>>>>> everywhere
>>>>>>> the native britons used to live which includes the island of ireland.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Depends which definition of "British" you are using. If you want to get
>>>>>> all technical, only the Welsh and Cornish are the only actually British
>>>>>> people, the Brittons no longer live in the rest of the British Isles.
>>>>>
>>>>> Doesn't change anything. Great Britain is the geographical name for this
>>>>> island ergo its natives are British.
>>>>
>>>> There needs to be an equivalent term to "British" which means "of the
>> United
>>>> Kingdom" so as to also include people from Northern Ireland. Mind you, many
>>
>>>> people seem to use "Great Britain" and "United Kingdom" interchangeably,
>>>> forgetting the one is Eng, Scot, Wales and the other is Eng, Scot, Wales,
>>>> NI. Did cars from Northern Ireland carry an oval GB sticker or (more
>>>> recently) have GB on the blue sidebar of the EU-standard number plates. Or
>>>> did they have separate letters "NI"?
>>>
>>> Until the days of BoJo the Evil Clown the international car registration
>>> letters for the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland were
>>> GB
>>>
>> Anecdotally due to the political incompetence of the UK rep on the
>> relevant committee who would probably have settled on "E" if Spain had
>> not claimed it first.
>
> To be fair, this was one of boris' few sensible decisions as it rolls in
> northern ireland who won't have to have NI stickers now, though arguably it
> also covers the channel islands and IoM too.

Definitely not those territories - GBA, GBG, GBJ and GBM. They’re not part
of the UK despite what the relevant Wikipedia page might suggest.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_vehicle_registration_code#Current_codes>

Sam

--
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On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 10:05:54 +0000
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>In message <tumr24$3m6lk$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:40:20 on Mon, 13 Mar
>2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>Given they use the cyrillic alphabet why didn't ukraine just use yk?
>
>Ukraine unilaterally (in what arena) or do you mean ISO's designation on
>their behalf (which I'm sure would have been debated at extreme length).

Wherever appropriate.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <tulm03$3a2cs$1@dont-email.me>, at 23:07:47 on Sun, 12 Mar
> 2023, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>> NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote in message
>>> news:tuib12$2jal8$1@dont-email.me...
>>>> On Sat, 11 Mar 2023 17:28:11 +0100
>>>> Bob <bob@domain.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 11.03.23 17:16, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>>>> Technically the irish are also british because the british isles is
>>>>> everywhere
>>>>>> the native britons used to live which includes the island of ireland.
>>>>>
>>>>> Depends which definition of "British" you are using. If you want to get
>>>>> all technical, only the Welsh and Cornish are the only actually British
>>>>> people, the Brittons no longer live in the rest of the British Isles.
>>>>
>>>> Doesn't change anything. Great Britain is the geographical name for this
>>>> island ergo its natives are British.
>>>
>>> There needs to be an equivalent term to "British" which means "of the United
>>> Kingdom" so as to also include people from Northern Ireland. Mind you, many
>>> people seem to use "Great Britain" and "United Kingdom" interchangeably,
>>> forgetting the one is Eng, Scot, Wales and the other is Eng, Scot, Wales,
>>> NI. Did cars from Northern Ireland carry an oval GB sticker or (more
>>> recently) have GB on the blue sidebar of the EU-standard number plates. Or
>>> did they have separate letters "NI"?
>>
>> Until the days of BoJo the Evil Clown the international car registration
>> letters for the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland were
>> GB, as is the ISO 3166 two-letter abbreviation, which has been a source of
>> tension in some quarters. They are now UK, which matches the DNS top level
>> domain, and is also a source of tension in some quarters.
>
> As of course is (a source of tension) the anomaly that the ccTLD is .uk,
> which by rights should have been reserved for Ukraine. But being early
> adopters we acquired squatters rights; as did Jersey, Guernsey and the
> Isle of Man, who would struggle profoundly to be allocated their own
> ccTLD today.
>
> The ISO people (several of whom I worked with closely on these matters)
> believe the codes should be mnemonic of geographical feature, so .us
> (which *is* the ISO code, but rarely used as a ccTLD) is also anomalous
> because there are other "United States" (viz Mexico).

And there used to be another USA, and there’s a definite uk.r link there.

Sam

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Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Mar 2023 21:15:08 -0000, "NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>
>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote in message
>> news:tuib12$2jal8$1@dont-email.me...
>>> On Sat, 11 Mar 2023 17:28:11 +0100
>>> Bob <bob@domain.com> wrote:
>>>> On 11.03.23 17:16, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>>> Technically the irish are also british because the british isles is
>>>> everywhere
>>>>> the native britons used to live which includes the island of ireland.
>>>>
>>>> Depends which definition of "British" you are using. If you want to get
>>>> all technical, only the Welsh and Cornish are the only actually British
>>>> people, the Brittons no longer live in the rest of the British Isles.
>>>
>>> Doesn't change anything. Great Britain is the geographical name for this
>>> island ergo its natives are British.
>>
>> There needs to be an equivalent term to "British" which means "of the United
>> Kingdom" so as to also include people from Northern Ireland.
>>
> UKish ? (kepe it short, keep it simple).

Worryingly close to UKIP.

Sam

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Nobody <jock@soccer.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 00:21:55 +0000, Charles Ellson
> <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 12 Mar 2023 16:10:49 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 12 Mar 2023 07:35:18 +0000
>>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 11 Mar 2023 16:54:15 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Of course they do, just because a load of immigrants arrived doesn't
>>>>>> mean the locals just got up and left.
>>>>>
>>>>> Obviously you've never been to Tottenham ;)
>>>>>
>>>> I have on numerous occasions and they quite clearly haven't left.
>>>
>>> Really? Visit any high street in an arc from wood green through tottenham
>>> to walthamstow and have a listen to how often you hear english spoken. And if
>>> you do it'll probably be in a foreign accent and when the accent is british
>>> it'll probably be from an afro caribbean or asian. The majority of white
>>> londoners legged it long ago north, east and west.
>>>
>
>
>> What is a "Londoner" ?
>
> Sumwon who thinks of London wherever they go.... a bit Thame but
> lyrics can't lie.

- Knock knock
* Who’s there?
- M-A-B
* M-A-B who?
[all together now!]

Sam

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In message <tumunq$3nbpu$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:43:06 on Mon, 13 Mar
2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 10:05:54 +0000
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>In message <tumr24$3m6lk$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:40:20 on Mon, 13 Mar
>>2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>Given they use the cyrillic alphabet why didn't ukraine just use yk?
>>
>>Ukraine unilaterally (in what arena) or do you mean ISO's designation on
>>their behalf (which I'm sure would have been debated at extreme length).
>
>Wherever appropriate.

So you don't know then. OK.
--
Roland Perry

In message <tum1on$3dlpg$5@dont-email.me>, at 02:28:39 on Mon, 13 Mar
2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Nobody <jock@soccer.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 12 Mar 2023 21:15:08 -0000, "NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote in message
>>> news:tuib12$2jal8$1@dont-email.me...
>>>> On Sat, 11 Mar 2023 17:28:11 +0100
>>>> Bob <bob@domain.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 11.03.23 17:16, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>>>> Technically the irish are also british because the british isles is
>>>>> everywhere
>>>>>> the native britons used to live which includes the island of ireland.
>>>>>
>>>>> Depends which definition of "British" you are using. If you want to get
>>>>> all technical, only the Welsh and Cornish are the only actually British
>>>>> people, the Brittons no longer live in the rest of the British Isles.
>>>>
>>>> Doesn't change anything. Great Britain is the geographical name for this
>>>> island ergo its natives are British.
>>>
>>> There needs to be an equivalent term to "British" which means "of
>>>the United
>>> Kingdom" so as to also include people from Northern Ireland.
>>
>> A UKGBNI'er... works for all of us in amateur radio...
>
>I notice that the Titan A321neo, leased by the UK government, was
>re-registered as G-GBNI. It's just flown the PM's delegation from Stansted
>to San Diego, with a refuelling stop in Dulles. I wonder why they didn't
>use the RAF Voyager A330 that could have done it non-stop, in more comfort?

Probably because they wanted to pick up some passengers (could be UK
embassy staff wanting to brief the PM en-route, or US officials to have
a pre-meeting with).

>The A321 previously flew from Orly to Stansted on the 10th evening. I
>wonder if that was conveying the PM's delegation back from the meetings
>with Macron? They went out by Eurostar, but perhaps returned by air?

Again, going out by E* allows a period of relatively uninterrupted peace
and quiet for pre-meetings and briefings, whereas afterwards you just
want to get home as soon as possible.
--
Roland Perry

On 13/03/2023 01:18, Nobody wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Mar 2023 21:15:08 -0000, "NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>
>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote in message
>> news:tuib12$2jal8$1@dont-email.me...
>>> On Sat, 11 Mar 2023 17:28:11 +0100
>>> Bob <bob@domain.com> wrote:
>>>> On 11.03.23 17:16, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>>> Technically the irish are also british because the british isles is
>>>> everywhere
>>>>> the native britons used to live which includes the island of ireland.
>>>>
>>>> Depends which definition of "British" you are using. If you want to get
>>>> all technical, only the Welsh and Cornish are the only actually British
>>>> people, the Brittons no longer live in the rest of the British Isles.
>>>
>>> Doesn't change anything. Great Britain is the geographical name for this
>>> island ergo its natives are British.
>>
>> There needs to be an equivalent term to "British" which means "of the United
>> Kingdom" so as to also include people from Northern Ireland.
>
> A UKGBNI'er... works for all of us in amateur radio...

I had a Canadian Charlie accuse me of being a pirate because I don't
speak Welsh!

On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 11:12:45 +0000
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>In message <tumunq$3nbpu$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:43:06 on Mon, 13 Mar
>2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 10:05:54 +0000
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>In message <tumr24$3m6lk$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:40:20 on Mon, 13 Mar
>>>2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>Given they use the cyrillic alphabet why didn't ukraine just use yk?
>>>
>>>Ukraine unilaterally (in what arena) or do you mean ISO's designation on
>>>their behalf (which I'm sure would have been debated at extreme length).
>>
>>Wherever appropriate.
>
>So you don't know then. OK.

Roland logic:
"Where shall I put this?"
"Wherever you want"
"So you don't know then"

Why do they use "UA" when "YK" would have been the 1st 2 letters of their name
in cyrillic? Albeit a Y in cyrillic has a different sound.

<Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 11:12:45 +0000
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <tumunq$3nbpu$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:43:06 on Mon, 13 Mar
>> 2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>> On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 10:05:54 +0000
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <tumr24$3m6lk$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:40:20 on Mon, 13 Mar
>>>> 2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>> Given they use the cyrillic alphabet why didn't ukraine just use yk?
>>>>
>>>> Ukraine unilaterally (in what arena) or do you mean ISO's designation on
>>>> their behalf (which I'm sure would have been debated at extreme length).
>>>
>>> Wherever appropriate.
>>
>> So you don't know then. OK.
>
> Roland logic:
> "Where shall I put this?"
> "Wherever you want"
> "So you don't know then"
>
> Why do they use "UA" when "YK" would have been the 1st 2 letters of their name
> in cyrillic? Albeit a Y in cyrillic has a different sound.

Because the letter YU in Cyrillic isn’t the same as Y in latin script? If
you’re writing the name in latin script it begins with a U not a Y.

Sam

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On 13/03/2023 13:23, Sam Wilson wrote:
> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 11:12:45 +0000
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <tumunq$3nbpu$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:43:06 on Mon, 13 Mar
>>> 2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>> On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 10:05:54 +0000
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <tumr24$3m6lk$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:40:20 on Mon, 13 Mar
>>>>> 2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>>> Given they use the cyrillic alphabet why didn't ukraine just use yk?
>>>>>
>>>>> Ukraine unilaterally (in what arena) or do you mean ISO's designation on
>>>>> their behalf (which I'm sure would have been debated at extreme length).
>>>>
>>>> Wherever appropriate.
>>>
>>> So you don't know then. OK.
>>
>> Roland logic:
>> "Where shall I put this?"
>> "Wherever you want"
>> "So you don't know then"
>>
>> Why do they use "UA" when "YK" would have been the 1st 2 letters of their name
>> in cyrillic? Albeit a Y in cyrillic has a different sound.
>
> Because the letter YU in Cyrillic isn’t the same as Y in latin script? If
> you’re writing the name in latin script it begins with a U not a Y.

Yu looks like Y but isn't one. Same reason Russia isn't PO for Россия.

Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:
> On 13/03/2023 13:23, Sam Wilson wrote:
>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 11:12:45 +0000
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <tumunq$3nbpu$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:43:06 on Mon, 13 Mar
>>>> 2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>> On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 10:05:54 +0000
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <tumr24$3m6lk$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:40:20 on Mon, 13 Mar
>>>>>> 2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>>>> Given they use the cyrillic alphabet why didn't ukraine just use yk?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ukraine unilaterally (in what arena) or do you mean ISO's designation on
>>>>>> their behalf (which I'm sure would have been debated at extreme length).
>>>>>
>>>>> Wherever appropriate.
>>>>
>>>> So you don't know then. OK.
>>>
>>> Roland logic:
>>> "Where shall I put this?"
>>> "Wherever you want"
>>> "So you don't know then"
>>>
>>> Why do they use "UA" when "YK" would have been the 1st 2 letters of their name
>>> in cyrillic? Albeit a Y in cyrillic has a different sound.
>>
>> Because the letter YU in Cyrillic isn’t the same as Y in latin script? If
>> you’re writing the name in latin script it begins with a U not a Y.
>
> Yu looks like Y but isn't one. Same reason Russia isn't PO for Россия.

FTAOD and because I’m pedantic that way, my question above was rhetorical.

Sam

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In message <tun3m6$3oioi$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:07:34 on Mon, 13 Mar
2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 11:12:45 +0000
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>In message <tumunq$3nbpu$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:43:06 on Mon, 13 Mar
>>2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 10:05:54 +0000
>>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>In message <tumr24$3m6lk$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:40:20 on Mon, 13 Mar
>>>>2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>>Given they use the cyrillic alphabet why didn't ukraine just use yk?
>>>>
>>>>Ukraine unilaterally (in what arena) or do you mean ISO's designation on
>>>>their behalf (which I'm sure would have been debated at extreme length).
>>>
>>>Wherever appropriate.
>>
>>So you don't know then. OK.
>
>Roland logic:
>"Where shall I put this?"
>"Wherever you want"
>"So you don't know then"
>
>Why do they use "UA" when "YK" would have been the 1st 2 letters of their name
>in cyrillic? Albeit a Y in cyrillic has a different sound.

Because that's what ISO decided, and ISO don't make decisions like that
off the cuff.
--
Roland Perry

On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 13:23:02 -0000 (UTC)
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
><Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 11:12:45 +0000
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <tumunq$3nbpu$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:43:06 on Mon, 13 Mar
>>> 2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>> On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 10:05:54 +0000
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <tumr24$3m6lk$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:40:20 on Mon, 13 Mar
>>>>> 2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>>> Given they use the cyrillic alphabet why didn't ukraine just use yk?
>>>>>
>>>>> Ukraine unilaterally (in what arena) or do you mean ISO's designation on
>>>>> their behalf (which I'm sure would have been debated at extreme length).
>>>>
>>>> Wherever appropriate.
>>>
>>> So you don't know then. OK.
>>
>> Roland logic:
>> "Where shall I put this?"
>> "Wherever you want"
>> "So you don't know then"
>>
>> Why do they use "UA" when "YK" would have been the 1st 2 letters of their
>name
>> in cyrillic? Albeit a Y in cyrillic has a different sound.
>
>Because the letter YU in Cyrillic isn’t the same as Y in latin script? If

Its not "YU" , its "Y", or as close as. And its just has to be 2 letters that
are unique.

On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 14:49:38 +0000
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>In message <tun3m6$3oioi$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:07:34 on Mon, 13 Mar
>2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 11:12:45 +0000
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>In message <tumunq$3nbpu$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:43:06 on Mon, 13 Mar
>>>2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 10:05:54 +0000
>>>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>In message <tumr24$3m6lk$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:40:20 on Mon, 13 Mar
>>>>>2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>>>Given they use the cyrillic alphabet why didn't ukraine just use yk?
>>>>>
>>>>>Ukraine unilaterally (in what arena) or do you mean ISO's designation on
>>>>>their behalf (which I'm sure would have been debated at extreme length).
>>>>
>>>>Wherever appropriate.
>>>
>>>So you don't know then. OK.
>>
>>Roland logic:
>>"Where shall I put this?"
>>"Wherever you want"
>>"So you don't know then"
>>
>>Why do they use "UA" when "YK" would have been the 1st 2 letters of their name
>
>>in cyrillic? Albeit a Y in cyrillic has a different sound.
>
>Because that's what ISO decided, and ISO don't make decisions like that
>off the cuff.

I'm sure we could find some fairly stupid country designations that have little
to do with the name.

On 13.03.23 16:06, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 14:49:38 +0000
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <tun3m6$3oioi$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:07:34 on Mon, 13 Mar
>> 2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>> On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 11:12:45 +0000
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <tumunq$3nbpu$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:43:06 on Mon, 13 Mar
>>>> 2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>> On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 10:05:54 +0000
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <tumr24$3m6lk$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:40:20 on Mon, 13 Mar
>>>>>> 2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>>>> Given they use the cyrillic alphabet why didn't ukraine just use yk?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ukraine unilaterally (in what arena) or do you mean ISO's designation on
>>>>>> their behalf (which I'm sure would have been debated at extreme length).
>>>>>
>>>>> Wherever appropriate.
>>>>
>>>> So you don't know then. OK.
>>>
>>> Roland logic:
>>> "Where shall I put this?"
>>> "Wherever you want"
>>> "So you don't know then"
>>>
>>> Why do they use "UA" when "YK" would have been the 1st 2 letters of their name
>>
>>> in cyrillic? Albeit a Y in cyrillic has a different sound.
>>
>> Because that's what ISO decided, and ISO don't make decisions like that
>> off the cuff.
>
> I'm sure we could find some fairly stupid country designations that have little
> to do with the name.

Looking at the list of ISO 3166-1 two letter codes, There is a mix of
countries that use codes that sound odd based on the English name but
make sense based on the domestic name (CH, DE, HR), ones that are
clearly based on the English name but not the local name (AT, JP), the
odd one that makes sense based on a name change (SZ) and some that are
harder to fathom (MK). Mostly, though, they make sense in the context of
what the countries are called and what potential ambiguities exist.

Robin

In message <tundt4$3qdno$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:01:56 on Mon, 13 Mar
2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 13:23:02 -0000 (UTC)
>Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>><Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 11:12:45 +0000
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <tumunq$3nbpu$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:43:06 on Mon, 13 Mar
>>>> 2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>> On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 10:05:54 +0000
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <tumr24$3m6lk$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:40:20 on Mon, 13 Mar
>>>>>> 2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>>>> Given they use the cyrillic alphabet why didn't ukraine just use yk?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ukraine unilaterally (in what arena) or do you mean ISO's designation on
>>>>>> their behalf (which I'm sure would have been debated at extreme length).
>>>>>
>>>>> Wherever appropriate.
>>>>
>>>> So you don't know then. OK.
>>>
>>> Roland logic:
>>> "Where shall I put this?"
>>> "Wherever you want"
>>> "So you don't know then"
>>>
>>> Why do they use "UA" when "YK" would have been the 1st 2 letters of their
>>name
>>> in cyrillic? Albeit a Y in cyrillic has a different sound.
>>
>>Because the letter YU in Cyrillic isn’t the same as Y in latin script? If
>
>Its not "YU" , its "Y", or as close as. And its just has to be 2 letters that
>are unique.

And is approved of by ISO.
--
Roland Perry

In message <tune5b$3qf2m$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:06:19 on Mon, 13 Mar
2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 14:49:38 +0000
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>In message <tun3m6$3oioi$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:07:34 on Mon, 13 Mar
>>2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 11:12:45 +0000
>>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>In message <tumunq$3nbpu$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:43:06 on Mon, 13 Mar
>>>>2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>>On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 10:05:54 +0000
>>>>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>In message <tumr24$3m6lk$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:40:20 on Mon, 13 Mar
>>>>>>2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>>>>Given they use the cyrillic alphabet why didn't ukraine just use yk?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Ukraine unilaterally (in what arena) or do you mean ISO's designation on
>>>>>>their behalf (which I'm sure would have been debated at extreme length).
>>>>>
>>>>>Wherever appropriate.
>>>>
>>>>So you don't know then. OK.
>>>
>>>Roland logic:
>>>"Where shall I put this?"
>>>"Wherever you want"
>>>"So you don't know then"
>>>
>>>Why do they use "UA" when "YK" would have been the 1st 2 letters of
>>>their name
>>
>>>in cyrillic? Albeit a Y in cyrillic has a different sound.
>>
>>Because that's what ISO decided, and ISO don't make decisions like that
>>off the cuff.
>
>I'm sure we could find some fairly stupid country designations that have little
>to do with the name.

The list is published, do suggest a few...
--
Roland Perry

<Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 13:23:02 -0000 (UTC)
> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 11:12:45 +0000
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <tumunq$3nbpu$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:43:06 on Mon, 13 Mar
>>>> 2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>> On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 10:05:54 +0000
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <tumr24$3m6lk$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:40:20 on Mon, 13 Mar
>>>>>> 2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>>>> Given they use the cyrillic alphabet why didn't ukraine just use yk?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ukraine unilaterally (in what arena) or do you mean ISO's designation on
>>>>>> their behalf (which I'm sure would have been debated at extreme length).
>>>>>
>>>>> Wherever appropriate.
>>>>
>>>> So you don't know then. OK.
>>>
>>> Roland logic:
>>> "Where shall I put this?"
>>> "Wherever you want"
>>> "So you don't know then"
>>>
>>> Why do they use "UA" when "YK" would have been the 1st 2 letters of their
>> name
>>> in cyrillic? Albeit a Y in cyrillic has a different sound.
>>
>> Because the letter YU in Cyrillic isn’t the same as Y in latin script? If
>
> Its not "YU" , its "Y", or as close as. And its just has to be 2 letters that
> are unique.

No, YU is not the same as Y. I’m checking with a Russian scholar I know,
but I don’t think YU is ever written with a vertical tail the way a Latin
capital Y usually is. It’s a different letter.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 15:43:36 +0000
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>In message <tune5b$3qf2m$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:06:19 on Mon, 13 Mar
>2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 14:49:38 +0000
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>In message <tun3m6$3oioi$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:07:34 on Mon, 13 Mar
>>>2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 11:12:45 +0000
>>>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>In message <tumunq$3nbpu$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:43:06 on Mon, 13 Mar
>>>>>2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>>>On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 10:05:54 +0000
>>>>>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>In message <tumr24$3m6lk$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:40:20 on Mon, 13 Mar
>>>>>>>2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>>>>>Given they use the cyrillic alphabet why didn't ukraine just use yk?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Ukraine unilaterally (in what arena) or do you mean ISO's designation on
>>>>>>>their behalf (which I'm sure would have been debated at extreme length).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Wherever appropriate.
>>>>>
>>>>>So you don't know then. OK.
>>>>
>>>>Roland logic:
>>>>"Where shall I put this?"
>>>>"Wherever you want"
>>>>"So you don't know then"
>>>>
>>>>Why do they use "UA" when "YK" would have been the 1st 2 letters of
>>>>their name
>>>
>>>>in cyrillic? Albeit a Y in cyrillic has a different sound.
>>>
>>>Because that's what ISO decided, and ISO don't make decisions like that
>>>off the cuff.
>>
>>I'm sure we could find some fairly stupid country designations that have
>little
>>to do with the name.
>
>The list is published, do suggest a few...

Took a few seconds: DZ for algeria, BY for belarus, GG for guernsey,
KY for cayman islands.

Probably more but I have better things to do with my time.

On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 16:23:09 -0000 (UTC)
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
><Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>> Its not "YU" , its "Y", or as close as. And its just has to be 2 letters that
>
>> are unique.
>
>No, YU is not the same as Y. I’m checking with a Russian scholar I know,
>but I don’t think YU is ever written with a vertical tail the way a Latin
>capital Y usually is. It’s a different letter.

You're missing the point. It doesn't matter what it is, its what it looks
like. And plenty of people write a Y with an angled tail instead of vertical.

In message <tunj6l$3rdmh$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:32:21 on Mon, 13 Mar
2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 15:43:36 +0000
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>In message <tune5b$3qf2m$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:06:19 on Mon, 13 Mar
>>2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 14:49:38 +0000
>>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>In message <tun3m6$3oioi$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:07:34 on Mon, 13 Mar
>>>>2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>>On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 11:12:45 +0000
>>>>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>In message <tumunq$3nbpu$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:43:06 on Mon, 13 Mar
>>>>>>2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>>>>On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 10:05:54 +0000
>>>>>>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>In message <tumr24$3m6lk$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:40:20 on Mon, 13 Mar
>>>>>>>>2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>>>>>>Given they use the cyrillic alphabet why didn't ukraine just use yk?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Ukraine unilaterally (in what arena) or do you mean ISO's designation on
>>>>>>>>their behalf (which I'm sure would have been debated at extreme length).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Wherever appropriate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>So you don't know then. OK.
>>>>>
>>>>>Roland logic:
>>>>>"Where shall I put this?"
>>>>>"Wherever you want"
>>>>>"So you don't know then"
>>>>>
>>>>>Why do they use "UA" when "YK" would have been the 1st 2 letters of
>>>>>their name
>>>>
>>>>>in cyrillic? Albeit a Y in cyrillic has a different sound.
>>>>
>>>>Because that's what ISO decided, and ISO don't make decisions like that
>>>>off the cuff.
>>>
>>>I'm sure we could find some fairly stupid country designations that
>>>have little to do with the name.
>>
>>The list is published, do suggest a few...
>
>Took a few seconds: DZ for algeria, BY for belarus, GG for guernsey,
>KY for cayman islands.
>
>Probably more but I have better things to do with my time.

GG apart from being strongly related to "G"uernsey is another one that
had to be specially approved because they'd sort-of-used-it before it
was officially designated.

DZ presumably harks back to the local name of "El Djazaïr"

Belarus used to be called "Byelorussian SSR"

With CI and KI already spoken for, I think KY is the least-worst
alternative.
--
Roland Perry