On Thu, 9 Mar 2023 15:45:58 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:

>In message <tucgl3$1e7av$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:41:23 on Thu, 9 Mar
>2023, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <tua5fm$ug1s$2@dont-email.me>, at 14:18:30 on Wed, 8 Mar
>>> 2023, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <tu9i6e$relm$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:49:18 on Wed, 8 Mar
>>>>> 2023, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>> The accused, 59, who has accepted responsibility for failing to switch
>>>>>>>>>> tracks on a freight train — leaving it running on the same
>>>>>>>>>>line as an
>>>>>>>>>> oncoming passenger train packed with university students — was
>>>>>>>>>> charged with
>>>>>>>>>> multiple counts of negligent manslaughter.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Having dispatched the passenger train wrong line, he should have then
>>>>>>>>> switched the goods train but didn't. Either that or the report is
>>>>>>>>> confused.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm still confused. I wonder how large an area he controlled?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The news today suggests that for a brief period "all of central Greece".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Given the apparently primitive systems in use, I assumed it was quite a
>>>>>>>> small area, so he'd be unlikely to be in control of both of the trains
>>>>>>>> before the collided. So, if he was in control of the freight, he
>>>>>>>> wouldn't have had anything to do with the passenger express (or vice
>>>>>>>> versa). And we've not been given any reasons for one of the trains
>>>>>>>> being routed wrong-line.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> His finger trouble and/or lack of training, having been on the job only
>>>>>>> 3 days apparently.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Implying negligent or incompetent management, possibly. Whether any
>>>>>> inquiry will apportion blame upwards remains to be seen.
>>>>>
>>>>> The transport minister resigned last week, and it's beginning to look
>>>>> like this may bring the entire government down. Not just because of
>>>>> being a train wreck, but it's exposing systemic under-investment across
>>>>> many sectors.
>>>>
>>>> Indeed, though that’s not the same thing as being found guilty of
>>>>corporate manslaughter, or whatever the relevant offence would be.
>>>
>>> Corporate manslaughter is a very difficult thin to prove. Back in the
>>> day I had dinner (in Brussels, where we were both there on different
>>> business) with the Home Office lawyer who had looked into this after the
>>> Herald of Free Enterprise disaster.
>>
>>“… or whatever the relevant offence would be.”
>
>Whatever name it has, proving the corporate responsibility is likely to
>be just as difficult.
>
Bearing in mind the variations between different legal systems, you
might sometimes not be having to consider proving corporate
responsibility for an event rather than disproving a default corporate
liability.

>>It’s the difference between resigning or being let go in disgrace and
>>then being free to take another job vs being charged with a criminal
>>offence of some kind or other.
>
>But that's *personal* responsibility [/liability].

On Thu, 9 Mar 2023 20:51:39 -0000, "NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> It's actually a product for a worldwide audience, or didn't you see the
>>> list of European languages I gave? Then it was also aimed somewhat at an
>>> audience of computer geeks, and American is the language spoken there.
>>>
>>> CGA = Color Graphics Adapter; HDD = Hard Disk Drive, and so on.
>
>But CD = Compact Disc ;-) Because Philips chose to use the UK spelling.
>
>It's interesting that US spelling has prevailed in the UK for
>computer-related words such as "program" and "disk", but we still use our
>own spelling for "colour" as in "16-million-colour graphics mode". I think
>"disk" is regarded as a less US-specific spelling than "program": I've seen
>some UK car-related information referring to "disk brakes".
>
Disk isn't the American spelling, it is the less-used spelling in the
UK. It was e.g. the normal spelling in PO Engineering instructions
whether dealing with audible plastic, round bits of metal or computer
parts. AFAIR the "k" derives from the Greek root so "disc" is thus the
variant version.
<snip>

On Thu, 9 Mar 2023 08:26:06 +0000, Graeme Wall
<rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>On 08/03/2023 21:54, Charles Ellson wrote:
>> On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 17:06:01 +0000, Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 08/03/2023 16:31, Recliner wrote:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <qm3h0ipcplb7pt5h8jqpkudmt6oakmsc4p@4ax.com>, at 13:35:09 on
>>>>> Wed, 8 Mar 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 12:38:50 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nor did I that deny there might be a reduction in the force of the
>>>>>>> collision (although the aftermath could have been worse in a less
>>>>>>> favorable location).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are you still interested in being notified of your gradual switch to US
>>>>>> spelling?
>>>>>
>>>>> No.
>>>>>
>>>>> Like I said last time you tried to start one of your pointless arguments
>>>>> about this, there's so many postings to reply to (you being one of the
>>>>> worst offenders) I don't time to correct my spell-checker back to
>>>>> UK-English as thoroughly.
>>>>>
>>>>> But if course, you knew what I meant, even if seeing US spelling.
>>>>
>>>> Of course I knew what you meant. But you had denied that your posts
>>>> (whoever types them) increasingly used US spelling, and asked me to prove
>>>> it. Now I have, you say you didn't want to know.
>>>>
>>>> And we know you use an ancient, long-unsupported, locally-written news
>>>> reader. Surely it came with a UK spell checker, if it has one at all?
>>>
>>> I don't think America had been invented then.
>>>
>> It was there long before Columbus found (or thought he had found) it.
>
>Columbus never discovered, or arrived at America, as in the Good Old US of.
>
America doesn't belong to the USA despite their continuing efforts to
do so. Ask (almost) anyone from the True North.

In message <tudgsl$1js5p$1@dont-email.me>, at 20:51:39 on Thu, 9 Mar
2023, NY <me@privacy.invalid> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> It's actually a product for a worldwide audience, or didn't you see the
>>> list of European languages I gave? Then it was also aimed somewhat at an
>>> audience of computer geeks, and American is the language spoken there.
>>>
>>> CGA = Color Graphics Adapter; HDD = Hard Disk Drive, and so on.
>
>But CD = Compact Disc ;-) Because Philips chose to use the UK spelling.

And when launched, it wasn't a format for computer storage, just music.

>It's interesting that US spelling has prevailed in the UK for
>computer-related words such as "program"

Programmes have only ever been those things on the TV, as far as I'm
aware. Programmers, the other hand is a bilingual expression.

>and "disk", but we still use our own spelling for "colour" as in
>"16-million-colour graphics mode".

In common parlance, yes. However graphics modes aren't the only thing
with colours - railway train liveries have those too. USA computing
predominated described itself (for example Tandy TRS-80, having a "Color
BASIC") with their terminology. Arguably it's rude to use a different
spelling behind of such items their back.

Of course sometimes we just pronounce things differently, see row[rhymes
with cow]-ters versus roo-ters.

But then you sometimes get USA-ians adopting our version for things like
"Route-66".

>I think "disk" is regarded as a less US-specific spelling than
>"program": I've seen some UK car-related information referring to "disk
>brakes".

Again, cars are not computers (well, they have more and more of them
inside these days).

>I resist most imposed US spellings, but I do think that "jail" is a
>*much* better spelling than "gaol". If "jail" is regarded as too
>American, I'll use "prison" in preference to "gaol" which is as absurd
>and archaic as "connexion", "alarum" and "shew" (connection, alarm and
>show) ;-)

The thing is, a lot of so-called Americanisms are because their language
has remained fairly static for centuries, whereas the British have
evolved to new-fangled spellings.
--
Roland Perry

On 09/03/2023 22:39, Charles Ellson wrote:
> On Thu, 9 Mar 2023 08:26:06 +0000, Graeme Wall
> <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 08/03/2023 21:54, Charles Ellson wrote:
>>> On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 17:06:01 +0000, Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 08/03/2023 16:31, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <qm3h0ipcplb7pt5h8jqpkudmt6oakmsc4p@4ax.com>, at 13:35:09 on
>>>>>> Wed, 8 Mar 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 12:38:50 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nor did I that deny there might be a reduction in the force of the
>>>>>>>> collision (although the aftermath could have been worse in a less
>>>>>>>> favorable location).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Are you still interested in being notified of your gradual switch to US
>>>>>>> spelling?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Like I said last time you tried to start one of your pointless arguments
>>>>>> about this, there's so many postings to reply to (you being one of the
>>>>>> worst offenders) I don't time to correct my spell-checker back to
>>>>>> UK-English as thoroughly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But if course, you knew what I meant, even if seeing US spelling.
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course I knew what you meant. But you had denied that your posts
>>>>> (whoever types them) increasingly used US spelling, and asked me to prove
>>>>> it. Now I have, you say you didn't want to know.
>>>>>
>>>>> And we know you use an ancient, long-unsupported, locally-written news
>>>>> reader. Surely it came with a UK spell checker, if it has one at all?
>>>>
>>>> I don't think America had been invented then.
>>>>
>>> It was there long before Columbus found (or thought he had found) it.
>>
>> Columbus never discovered, or arrived at America, as in the Good Old US of.
>>
> America doesn't belong to the USA despite their continuing efforts to
> do so. Ask (almost) anyone from the True North.

Colunbus certainly never went near the True North!
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> It's actually a product for a worldwide audience, or didn't you see the
>>> list of European languages I gave? Then it was also aimed somewhat at an
>>> audience of computer geeks, and American is the language spoken there.
>>>
>>> CGA = Color Graphics Adapter; HDD = Hard Disk Drive, and so on.
>
> But CD = Compact Disc ;-) Because Philips chose to use the UK spelling.
>
> It's interesting that US spelling has prevailed in the UK for
> computer-related words such as "program" and "disk", but we still use our
> own spelling for "colour" as in "16-million-colour graphics mode". I think
> "disk" is regarded as a less US-specific spelling than "program": I've seen
> some UK car-related information referring to "disk brakes".

I remember one of my computer science lecturers lamenting that the US
spelling had come to be used for computer programmes.

%endofprogram (no one here will get that, sorry - just a bit of nostalgia)

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <tudgsl$1js5p$1@dont-email.me>, at 20:51:39 on Thu, 9 Mar
> 2023, NY <me@privacy.invalid> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> It's actually a product for a worldwide audience, or didn't you see the
>>>> list of European languages I gave? Then it was also aimed somewhat at an
>>>> audience of computer geeks, and American is the language spoken there.
>>>>
>>>> CGA = Color Graphics Adapter; HDD = Hard Disk Drive, and so on.
>>
>> But CD = Compact Disc ;-) Because Philips chose to use the UK spelling.
>
> And when launched, it wasn't a format for computer storage, just music.
>
>> It's interesting that US spelling has prevailed in the UK for
>> computer-related words such as "program"
>
> Programmes have only ever been those things on the TV, as far as I'm
> aware. Programmers, the other hand is a bilingual expression.
>
>> and "disk", but we still use our own spelling for "colour" as in
>> "16-million-colour graphics mode".
>
> In common parlance, yes. However graphics modes aren't the only thing
> with colours - railway train liveries have those too. USA computing
> predominated described itself (for example Tandy TRS-80, having a "Color
> BASIC") with their terminology. Arguably it's rude to use a different
> spelling behind of such items their back.
>
> Of course sometimes we just pronounce things differently, see row[rhymes
> with cow]-ters versus roo-ters.

The trouble with that one (and I have a professional interest here) is that
there are three verbs with three meanings but only two pronounciations (or
is that pronunciations?): to rout, to route and to root.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On 09.03.23 21:51, NY wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> It's actually a product for a worldwide audience, or didn't you see the
>>> list of European languages I gave? Then it was also aimed somewhat at an
>>> audience of computer geeks, and American is the language spoken there.
>>>
>>> CGA = Color Graphics Adapter; HDD = Hard Disk Drive, and so on.
>
> But CD = Compact Disc ;-)   Because Philips chose to use the UK spelling.
>
> It's interesting that US spelling has prevailed in the UK for
> computer-related words such as "program" and "disk", but we still use
> our own spelling for "colour" as in "16-million-colour graphics mode". I
> think "disk" is regarded as a less US-specific spelling than "program":
> I've seen some UK car-related information referring to "disk brakes".
>
> I resist most imposed US spellings, but I do think that "jail" is a
> *much* better spelling than "gaol". If "jail" is regarded as too
> American, I'll use "prison" in preference to "gaol" which is as absurd
> and archaic as "connexion", "alarum" and "shew" (connection, alarm and
> show) ;-)

Fromally, jail/gaol and prison are different things. A jail is the cells
in a police station or court building, where you are held on arrest or
in remand, while a prison is where custodial sentances are served. For
practical reasons, if someone is remanded in custody due to bail being
denied, this ususally happens in a prison as they are set up for long
duration stays rather than the rather more short term custody of a jail.

Robin

On 10.03.23 08:34, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <tudgsl$1js5p$1@dont-email.me>, at 20:51:39 on Thu, 9 Mar
> 2023, NY <me@privacy.invalid> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> It's actually a product for a worldwide audience, or didn't you see the
>>>> list of European languages I gave? Then it was also aimed somewhat
>>>> at an
>>>> audience of computer geeks, and American is the language spoken there.
>>>>
>>>> CGA = Color Graphics Adapter; HDD = Hard Disk Drive, and so on.
>>
>> But CD = Compact Disc ;-)   Because Philips chose to use the UK spelling.
>
> And when launched, it wasn't a format for computer storage, just music.
>
>> It's interesting that US spelling has prevailed in the UK for
>> computer-related words such as "program"
>
> Programmes have only ever been those things on the TV, as far as I'm
> aware. Programmers, the other hand is a bilingual expression.
>
>> and "disk", but we still use our own spelling for "colour" as in
>> "16-million-colour graphics mode".
>
> In common parlance, yes. However graphics modes aren't the only thing
> with colours - railway train liveries have those too. USA computing
> predominated described itself (for example Tandy TRS-80, having a "Color
> BASIC") with their terminology. Arguably it's rude to use a different
> spelling behind of such items their back.
>
> Of course sometimes we just pronounce things differently, see row[rhymes
> with cow]-ters versus roo-ters.
>
> But then you sometimes get USA-ians adopting our version for things like
> "Route-66".

The "rowt" pronunciation of route is a regional thing, in pre-internet
days in the US it was pretty well restricted to the SW (Texas,
California and points between), with the root pronunciation being
standard elsewhere. There are a few youtube channels I follow from
people in places like the Midwest and New England, and those people
invariably use the root pronunciation for route, never rowt. The rowter
pronunciation for the computer network device comes from the fact that
the tech industry in the US is predominantly located in those regions
where the route-as-rowt pronunciation dominates. I have never, though,
heard the name fo the woodworking tool pronounced as anything other than
rowter. It seems that the rowt pronunciation is spreading, though, as I
have encountered younger people from outside of the traditional "route
as rowt" areas adopting it.

Robin

Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <tudgsl$1js5p$1@dont-email.me>, at 20:51:39 on Thu, 9 Mar
>> 2023, NY <me@privacy.invalid> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>> It's actually a product for a worldwide audience, or didn't you see the
>>>>> list of European languages I gave? Then it was also aimed somewhat at an
>>>>> audience of computer geeks, and American is the language spoken there.
>>>>>
>>>>> CGA = Color Graphics Adapter; HDD = Hard Disk Drive, and so on.
>>>
>>> But CD = Compact Disc ;-) Because Philips chose to use the UK spelling.
>>
>> And when launched, it wasn't a format for computer storage, just music.
>>
>>> It's interesting that US spelling has prevailed in the UK for
>>> computer-related words such as "program"
>>
>> Programmes have only ever been those things on the TV, as far as I'm
>> aware. Programmers, the other hand is a bilingual expression.
>>
>>> and "disk", but we still use our own spelling for "colour" as in
>>> "16-million-colour graphics mode".
>>
>> In common parlance, yes. However graphics modes aren't the only thing
>> with colours - railway train liveries have those too. USA computing
>> predominated described itself (for example Tandy TRS-80, having a "Color
>> BASIC") with their terminology. Arguably it's rude to use a different
>> spelling behind of such items their back.
>>
>> Of course sometimes we just pronounce things differently, see row[rhymes
>> with cow]-ters versus roo-ters.
>
> The trouble with that one (and I have a professional interest here) is that
> there are three verbs with three meanings but only two pronounciations (or
> is that pronunciations?): to rout, to route and to root.
>

Maybe one of them should be pronounced 'rote'?

"Recliner" <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:tudhog$1k0ke$5@dont-email.me...
> NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>> It's interesting that US spelling has prevailed in the UK for
>> computer-related words such as "program" and "disk", but we still use our
>> own spelling for "colour" as in "16-million-colour graphics mode". I
>> think
>> "disk" is regarded as a less US-specific spelling than "program": I've
>> seen
>> some UK car-related information referring to "disk brakes".
>
> Program and programme have now acquired different meanings here: we have
> computer programs but TV programmes.

True. And we've never adopted the American habit of referring to a training
course as a program. Just as "college" is further education, after leaving
school at 16 or 18, not school itself. Interesting how British and American
English have diverged in lots of little ways like that. When I went over to
see my sister who was living in Boston for a few years, I know about all the
obvious things like faucet/tap, apartment/flat, closet/cupboard. But the one
thing that caught me out was when someone asked me how long I was staying in
America and I replied "a fortnight" which was met with blank
incomprehension: I hadn't realised that the word "fortnight", meaning two
weeks, was not as widely used in America.

"Bob" <bob@domain.com> wrote in message news:tuesuq$1tf72$2@dont-email.me...
> Formally, jail/gaol and prison are different things. A jail is the cells
> in a police station or court building, where you are held on arrest or in
> remand, while a prison is where custodial sentances are served. For
> practical reasons, if someone is remanded in custody due to bail being
> denied, this ususally happens in a prison as they are set up for long
> duration stays rather than the rather more short term custody of a jail.

I never knew about that distinction. I've always used the two words as
synonyms, which it seems was wrong. I get the impression that US usage
doesn't make that distinction, in the same way that they don't distinguish
between "licence" (the noun) and "license" (the verb).

NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
> "Bob" <bob@domain.com> wrote in message news:tuesuq$1tf72$2@dont-email.me...
>> Formally, jail/gaol and prison are different things. A jail is the cells
>> in a police station or court building, where you are held on arrest or in
>> remand, while a prison is where custodial sentances are served. For
>> practical reasons, if someone is remanded in custody due to bail being
>> denied, this ususally happens in a prison as they are set up for long
>> duration stays rather than the rather more short term custody of a jail.
>
> I never knew about that distinction. I've always used the two words as
> synonyms, which it seems was wrong. I get the impression that US usage
> doesn't make that distinction, in the same way that they don't distinguish
> between "licence" (the noun) and "license" (the verb).
>
>

No, the Americans do still use the words differently, unlike here. They
have jails and prisons/penitentiaries, and they are not the same thing:

http://www.differencebetween.net/miscellaneous/difference-between-jail-and-prison/

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <tudgsl$1js5p$1@dont-email.me>, at 20:51:39 on Thu, 9 Mar
>>> 2023, NY <me@privacy.invalid> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> It's actually a product for a worldwide audience, or didn't you see the
>>>>>> list of European languages I gave? Then it was also aimed somewhat at an
>>>>>> audience of computer geeks, and American is the language spoken there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> CGA = Color Graphics Adapter; HDD = Hard Disk Drive, and so on.
>>>>
>>>> But CD = Compact Disc ;-) Because Philips chose to use the UK spelling.
>>>
>>> And when launched, it wasn't a format for computer storage, just music.
>>>
>>>> It's interesting that US spelling has prevailed in the UK for
>>>> computer-related words such as "program"
>>>
>>> Programmes have only ever been those things on the TV, as far as I'm
>>> aware. Programmers, the other hand is a bilingual expression.
>>>
>>>> and "disk", but we still use our own spelling for "colour" as in
>>>> "16-million-colour graphics mode".
>>>
>>> In common parlance, yes. However graphics modes aren't the only thing
>>> with colours - railway train liveries have those too. USA computing
>>> predominated described itself (for example Tandy TRS-80, having a "Color
>>> BASIC") with their terminology. Arguably it's rude to use a different
>>> spelling behind of such items their back.
>>>
>>> Of course sometimes we just pronounce things differently, see row[rhymes
>>> with cow]-ters versus roo-ters.
>>
>> The trouble with that one (and I have a professional interest here) is that
>> there are three verbs with three meanings but only two pronounciations (or
>> is that pronunciations?): to rout, to route and to root.
>>
>
> Maybe one of them should be pronounced 'rote'?

To rote is a verb in Iain M Banks’ “The Algebraist” and has yet another
meaning.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Bob <bob@domain.com> wrote:
> On 10.03.23 08:34, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <tudgsl$1js5p$1@dont-email.me>, at 20:51:39 on Thu, 9 Mar
>> 2023, NY <me@privacy.invalid> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>> It's actually a product for a worldwide audience, or didn't you see the
>>>>> list of European languages I gave? Then it was also aimed somewhat
>>>>> at an
>>>>> audience of computer geeks, and American is the language spoken there.
>>>>>
>>>>> CGA = Color Graphics Adapter; HDD = Hard Disk Drive, and so on.
>>>
>>> But CD = Compact Disc ;-)   Because Philips chose to use the UK spelling.
>>
>> And when launched, it wasn't a format for computer storage, just music.
>>
>>> It's interesting that US spelling has prevailed in the UK for
>>> computer-related words such as "program"
>>
>> Programmes have only ever been those things on the TV, as far as I'm
>> aware. Programmers, the other hand is a bilingual expression.
>>
>>> and "disk", but we still use our own spelling for "colour" as in
>>> "16-million-colour graphics mode".
>>
>> In common parlance, yes. However graphics modes aren't the only thing
>> with colours - railway train liveries have those too. USA computing
>> predominated described itself (for example Tandy TRS-80, having a "Color
>> BASIC") with their terminology. Arguably it's rude to use a different
>> spelling behind of such items their back.
>>
>> Of course sometimes we just pronounce things differently, see row[rhymes
>> with cow]-ters versus roo-ters.
>>
>> But then you sometimes get USA-ians adopting our version for things like
>> "Route-66".
>
> The "rowt" pronunciation of route is a regional thing, in pre-internet
> days in the US it was pretty well restricted to the SW (Texas,
> California and points between), with the root pronunciation being
> standard elsewhere. There are a few youtube channels I follow from
> people in places like the Midwest and New England, and those people
> invariably use the root pronunciation for route, never rowt. The rowter
> pronunciation for the computer network device comes from the fact that
> the tech industry in the US is predominantly located in those regions
> where the route-as-rowt pronunciation dominates. I have never, though,
> heard the name fo the woodworking tool pronounced as anything other than
> rowter. It seems that the rowt pronunciation is spreading, though, as I
> have encountered younger people from outside of the traditional "route
> as rowt" areas adopting it.

And then we get the whole ISO OSI thing of using the word routeing to
describe forwarding packets at the network level. Apparently it’s an
acceptable spelling, but that’s still no help in deciding how to pronounce
it.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
> "Bob" <bob@domain.com> wrote in message news:tuesuq$1tf72$2@dont-email.me...
>> Formally, jail/gaol and prison are different things. A jail is the cells
>> in a police station or court building, where you are held on arrest or in
>> remand, while a prison is where custodial sentances are served. For
>> practical reasons, if someone is remanded in custody due to bail being
>> denied, this ususally happens in a prison as they are set up for long
>> duration stays rather than the rather more short term custody of a jail.
>
> I never knew about that distinction. I've always used the two words as
> synonyms, which it seems was wrong. I get the impression that US usage
> doesn't make that distinction, in the same way that they don't distinguish
> between "licence" (the noun) and "license" (the verb).

In US usage license is the noun and licence the verb! USAians don’t
practise anything, though.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On 10/03/2023 11:51, Sam Wilson wrote:
> NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>> "Bob" <bob@domain.com> wrote in message news:tuesuq$1tf72$2@dont-email.me...
>>> Formally, jail/gaol and prison are different things. A jail is the cells
>>> in a police station or court building, where you are held on arrest or in
>>> remand, while a prison is where custodial sentances are served. For
>>> practical reasons, if someone is remanded in custody due to bail being
>>> denied, this ususally happens in a prison as they are set up for long
>>> duration stays rather than the rather more short term custody of a jail.
>>
>> I never knew about that distinction. I've always used the two words as
>> synonyms, which it seems was wrong. I get the impression that US usage
>> doesn't make that distinction, in the same way that they don't distinguish
>> between "licence" (the noun) and "license" (the verb).
>
> In US usage license is the noun and licence the verb! USAians don’t
> practise anything, though.

Oh, right. I didn't know the spelling "licence" was used in the States.

Next we get onto "laboratory" pronounced like "lavatory" ;-) And 'erbs
(as in parsley, sage, rosemary and thyme) and "soddering" (joining wires
to terminals using molten metal). And the let's play the game of "how
many syllables can you break 'vehicle' into?" ;-)

Am 10.03.2023 um 14:46 schrieb NY:
> On 10/03/2023 11:51, Sam Wilson wrote:
>> NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>>> "Bob" <bob@domain.com> wrote in message
>>> news:tuesuq$1tf72$2@dont-email.me...
>>>> Formally, jail/gaol and prison are different things. A jail is the
>>>> cells
>>>> in a police station or court building, where you are held on arrest
>>>> or in
>>>> remand, while a prison is where custodial sentances are served. For
>>>> practical reasons, if someone is remanded in custody due to bail being
>>>> denied, this ususally happens in a prison as they are set up for long
>>>> duration stays rather than the rather more short term custody of a
>>>> jail.
>>>
>>> I never knew about that distinction. I've always used the two words as
>>> synonyms, which it seems was wrong. I get the impression that US usage
>>> doesn't make that distinction, in the same way that they don't
>>> distinguish
>>> between "licence" (the noun) and "license" (the verb).
>>
>> In US usage license is the noun and licence the verb!  USAians don’t
>> practise anything, though.
>
> Oh, right. I didn't know the spelling "licence" was used in the States.
>
> Next we get onto "laboratory" pronounced like "lavatory" ;-)  And 'erbs
> (as in parsley, sage, rosemary and thyme) and "soddering" (joining wires
> to terminals using molten metal). And the let's play the game of "how
> many syllables can you break 'vehicle' into?" ;-)

And don't store your 'erbs in a-loo-minum boxes!

On Fri, 10 Mar 2023 09:36:08 -0000, "NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

>"Recliner" <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:tudhog$1k0ke$5@dont-email.me...
>> Program and programme have now acquired different meanings here: we have
>> computer programs but TV programmes.
>
>True. And we've never adopted the American habit of referring to a training
>course as a program. Just as "college" is further education, after leaving
>school at 16 or 18, not school itself. Interesting how British and American
>English have diverged in lots of little ways like that. When I went over to
>see my sister who was living in Boston for a few years, I know about all the
>obvious things like faucet/tap, apartment/flat, closet/cupboard.

A cupboard is a cupboard, at least in Canaduh.

A closet is its taller cousin, floor-to-ceiling type, a built-in
wardrobe generally in hallways or bedrooms, though occasionally in
kitchens where it's home to brooms 'n stuff.

On Fri, 10 Mar 2023 08:21:46 +0000, Graeme Wall
<rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>On 09/03/2023 22:39, Charles Ellson wrote:
>> On Thu, 9 Mar 2023 08:26:06 +0000, Graeme Wall
>> <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 08/03/2023 21:54, Charles Ellson wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 17:06:01 +0000, Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 08/03/2023 16:31, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <qm3h0ipcplb7pt5h8jqpkudmt6oakmsc4p@4ax.com>, at 13:35:09 on
>>>>>>> Wed, 8 Mar 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 12:38:50 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nor did I that deny there might be a reduction in the force of the
>>>>>>>>> collision (although the aftermath could have been worse in a less
>>>>>>>>> favorable location).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Are you still interested in being notified of your gradual switch to US
>>>>>>>> spelling?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Like I said last time you tried to start one of your pointless arguments
>>>>>>> about this, there's so many postings to reply to (you being one of the
>>>>>>> worst offenders) I don't time to correct my spell-checker back to
>>>>>>> UK-English as thoroughly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But if course, you knew what I meant, even if seeing US spelling.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course I knew what you meant. But you had denied that your posts
>>>>>> (whoever types them) increasingly used US spelling, and asked me to prove
>>>>>> it. Now I have, you say you didn't want to know.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And we know you use an ancient, long-unsupported, locally-written news
>>>>>> reader. Surely it came with a UK spell checker, if it has one at all?
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think America had been invented then.
>>>>>
>>>> It was there long before Columbus found (or thought he had found) it.
>>>
>>> Columbus never discovered, or arrived at America, as in the Good Old US of.
>>>
>> America doesn't belong to the USA despite their continuing efforts to
>> do so. Ask (almost) anyone from the True North.
>
>Colunbus certainly never went near the True North!

Someone loved him enuf to call the original mainland colony British
Columbia, and the name stuck on amalgamation with Vancouver Island in
1866.

On 10/03/2023 16:41, Nobody wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Mar 2023 08:21:46 +0000, Graeme Wall
> <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 09/03/2023 22:39, Charles Ellson wrote:
>>> On Thu, 9 Mar 2023 08:26:06 +0000, Graeme Wall
>>> <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 08/03/2023 21:54, Charles Ellson wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 17:06:01 +0000, Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 08/03/2023 16:31, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <qm3h0ipcplb7pt5h8jqpkudmt6oakmsc4p@4ax.com>, at 13:35:09 on
>>>>>>>> Wed, 8 Mar 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 12:38:50 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Nor did I that deny there might be a reduction in the force of the
>>>>>>>>>> collision (although the aftermath could have been worse in a less
>>>>>>>>>> favorable location).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Are you still interested in being notified of your gradual switch to US
>>>>>>>>> spelling?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Like I said last time you tried to start one of your pointless arguments
>>>>>>>> about this, there's so many postings to reply to (you being one of the
>>>>>>>> worst offenders) I don't time to correct my spell-checker back to
>>>>>>>> UK-English as thoroughly.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But if course, you knew what I meant, even if seeing US spelling.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Of course I knew what you meant. But you had denied that your posts
>>>>>>> (whoever types them) increasingly used US spelling, and asked me to prove
>>>>>>> it. Now I have, you say you didn't want to know.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And we know you use an ancient, long-unsupported, locally-written news
>>>>>>> reader. Surely it came with a UK spell checker, if it has one at all?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't think America had been invented then.
>>>>>>
>>>>> It was there long before Columbus found (or thought he had found) it.
>>>>
>>>> Columbus never discovered, or arrived at America, as in the Good Old US of.
>>>>
>>> America doesn't belong to the USA despite their continuing efforts to
>>> do so. Ask (almost) anyone from the True North.
>>
>> Colunbus certainly never went near the True North!
>
> Someone loved him enuf to call the original mainland colony British
> Columbia, and the name stuck on amalgamation with Vancouver Island in
> 1866.

But then they named both continents after an Italian who may never have
been anywhere near them.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

In message <tuetm0$1tksf$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:36:08 on Fri, 10 Mar
2023, NY <me@privacy.invalid> remarked:
>"Recliner" <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:tudhog$1k0ke$5@dont-email.me...
>> NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>>> It's interesting that US spelling has prevailed in the UK for
>>> computer-related words such as "program" and "disk", but we still use our
>>> own spelling for "colour" as in "16-million-colour graphics mode". I
>>>think
>>> "disk" is regarded as a less US-specific spelling than "program":
>>>I've seen
>>> some UK car-related information referring to "disk brakes".
>>
>> Program and programme have now acquired different meanings here: we have
>> computer programs but TV programmes.
>
>True. And we've never adopted the American habit of referring to a
>training course as a program. Just as "college" is further education,
>after leaving school at 16 or 18, not school itself.

The USA-ians refer to their University as "going to school", or was that
part of your rather ambiguous statement above?

>Interesting how British and American English have diverged in lots of
>little ways like that. When I went over to see my sister who was living
>in Boston for a few years, I know about all the obvious things like
>faucet/tap, apartment/flat, closet/cupboard. But the one thing that
>caught me out was when someone asked me how long I was staying in
>America and I replied "a fortnight" which was met with blank
>incomprehension: I hadn't realised that the word "fortnight", meaning
>two weeks, was not as widely used in America.

That's one of a fairly short list that they don't comprehend. Whereas
things like "rubber" - cf Durex=Sellotape in Australia - simply have an
unexpected connotation.

I always chuckle when an USA-ian reaches out for a handshake and says
"Hello, I'm Randy".
--
Roland Perry

In message <3pmm0i5eghsrrqn93lu5guf7l9nffuk64m@4ax.com>, at 08:31:49 on
Fri, 10 Mar 2023, Nobody <jock@soccer.com> remarked:
>On Fri, 10 Mar 2023 09:36:08 -0000, "NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>
>>"Recliner" <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:tudhog$1k0ke$5@dont-email.me...
>>> Program and programme have now acquired different meanings here: we have
>>> computer programs but TV programmes.
>>
>>True. And we've never adopted the American habit of referring to a training
>>course as a program. Just as "college" is further education, after leaving
>>school at 16 or 18, not school itself. Interesting how British and American
>>English have diverged in lots of little ways like that. When I went over to
>>see my sister who was living in Boston for a few years, I know about all the
>>obvious things like faucet/tap, apartment/flat, closet/cupboard.
>
>A cupboard is a cupboard, at least in Canaduh.
>
>A closet is its taller cousin, floor-to-ceiling type, a built-in
>wardrobe generally in hallways or bedrooms, though occasionally in
>kitchens where it's home to brooms 'n stuff.

And anything with a loo(qv) in it is called a Bathroom. Except in the
deep south when the toilet is sometimes called "the Necessary".
--
Roland Perry

In message <tuer2t$1t7i5$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:51:41 on Fri, 10 Mar
2023, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <tudgsl$1js5p$1@dont-email.me>, at 20:51:39 on Thu, 9 Mar
>> 2023, NY <me@privacy.invalid> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>> It's actually a product for a worldwide audience, or didn't you see the
>>>>> list of European languages I gave? Then it was also aimed somewhat at an
>>>>> audience of computer geeks, and American is the language spoken there.
>>>>>
>>>>> CGA = Color Graphics Adapter; HDD = Hard Disk Drive, and so on.
>>>
>>> But CD = Compact Disc ;-) Because Philips chose to use the UK spelling.
>>
>> And when launched, it wasn't a format for computer storage, just music.
>>
>>> It's interesting that US spelling has prevailed in the UK for
>>> computer-related words such as "program"
>>
>> Programmes have only ever been those things on the TV, as far as I'm
>> aware. Programmers, the other hand is a bilingual expression.
>>
>>> and "disk", but we still use our own spelling for "colour" as in
>>> "16-million-colour graphics mode".
>>
>> In common parlance, yes. However graphics modes aren't the only thing
>> with colours - railway train liveries have those too. USA computing
>> predominated described itself (for example Tandy TRS-80, having a "Color
>> BASIC") with their terminology. Arguably it's rude to use a different
>> spelling behind of such items their back.
>>
>> Of course sometimes we just pronounce things differently, see row[rhymes
>> with cow]-ters versus roo-ters.
>
>The trouble with that one (and I have a professional interest here) is that
>there are three verbs with three meanings but only two pronounciations (or
>is that pronunciations?): to rout, to route and to root.

If you mean hacking as applied to rooting a Unix device, that's a very
specialist term.
--
Roland Perry

In message <tuesuq$1tf72$2@dont-email.me>, at 10:23:36 on Fri, 10 Mar
2023, Bob <bob@domain.com> remarked:
>On 09.03.23 21:51, NY wrote:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> It's actually a product for a worldwide audience, or didn't you see the
>>>> list of European languages I gave? Then it was also aimed somewhat at an
>>>> audience of computer geeks, and American is the language spoken there.
>>>>
>>>> CGA = Color Graphics Adapter; HDD = Hard Disk Drive, and so on.
>> But CD = Compact Disc ;-)   Because Philips chose to use the UK
>>spelling.
>> It's interesting that US spelling has prevailed in the UK for
>>computer-related words such as "program" and "disk", but we still use
>>our own spelling for "colour" as in "16-million-colour graphics mode".
>>I think "disk" is regarded as a less US-specific spelling than
>>"program": I've seen some UK car-related information referring to
>>"disk brakes".
>> I resist most imposed US spellings, but I do think that "jail" is a
>>*much* better spelling than "gaol". If "jail" is regarded as too
>>American, I'll use "prison" in preference to "gaol" which is as absurd
>>and archaic as "connexion", "alarum" and "shew" (connection, alarm and
>>show) ;-)
>
>Fromally, jail/gaol and prison are different things. A jail is the
>cells in a police station or court building, where you are held on
>arrest or in remand, while a prison is where custodial sentances are
>served. For practical reasons, if someone is remanded in custody due to
>bail being denied, this ususally happens in a prison as they are set up
>for long duration stays rather than the rather more short term custody
>of a jail.

Meanwhile on the South Bank there's the lockup known as:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Clink
--
Roland Perry