On 14/03/2023 09:46, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 10:43:50 +0100
> Bob <bob@domain.com> wrote:
>> On 14.03.23 10:37, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>> On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 06:39:58 +0000
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <tunnr9$3s8ms$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:51:37 on Mon, 13 Mar
>>>>> However the Cyrillic OO (apologies, my mistake - YU is the one that looks
>>>>> like I-O) is not normally printed with a vertical tail, however my Russian
>>>>> scholar friend says that Ukrainians would likely recognise latin-alphabet
>>>>> YK or YKP (but not, I think, YKR; it would have to be UKR) as abbreviations
>>
>>>>> for their country.
>>>>
>>>> Some friends are hosting a Ukrainian refugee nearby, so perhaps I can go
>>>> ask them for an opinion. Although their first language is Russian, and
>>>> thereby lays one of the roots of the current conflict.
>>>
>>> Not only that - Yanukovich was ousted by protests. Nasty piece of work that
>>> he was, he was democratically elected in what was judged a fair election yet
>>> when he was overthrown there was only a thumbs up from the west. So when
>> Putin
>>> says the west is hypocritical when it comes to democracy he has a point. Not
>>> that it justifies his invasion one bit.
>>
>> He was voted in on a promise of signing an agreement for closer ties
>> with the EU. When he took office, he promptly dropped the EU agreement
>> that was ready to sign and instead signed up for closer ties with
>> Russia. The people who had voted him were justafiably pissed off and
>> protested over this, and his response was to get in a helicopter and fly
>> to Russia. He both betrayed the electorate in terms of running on the
>> basis of doign one thing and then trying to do the opposite, and then
>> abandoned the job.
>
> If every leader who renaged on a manifesto promise was booted out of office
> we'd be having elections every week.

We do seem to be…

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 12:32:24 -0000 (UTC)
Bob <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
><Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>> He was voted in on a promise of signing an agreement for closer ties
>>> with the EU. When he took office, he promptly dropped the EU agreement
>>> that was ready to sign and instead signed up for closer ties with
>>> Russia. The people who had voted him were justafiably pissed off and
>>> protested over this, and his response was to get in a helicopter and fly
>>> to Russia. He both betrayed the electorate in terms of running on the
>>> basis of doign one thing and then trying to do the opposite, and then
>>> abandoned the job.
>>
>> If every leader who renaged on a manifesto promise was booted out of office
>
>He wasn’t booted out of office, he ran away to another country and cut all
>contact with the people under him. What is a country supposed to do if it’s
>supposed leader just ups and leaves, and goes no-contact?

When the choice is run away or be lynched by the mob what would you do?

I'm not making excuses for him but he was democratically elected and the mob
threw him out. Democracy requires an election to remove someone, not an
election unless you don't like their policies in which case riot.

On 14.03.23 17:23, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 12:32:24 -0000 (UTC)
> Bob <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>> He was voted in on a promise of signing an agreement for closer ties
>>>> with the EU. When he took office, he promptly dropped the EU agreement
>>>> that was ready to sign and instead signed up for closer ties with
>>>> Russia. The people who had voted him were justafiably pissed off and
>>>> protested over this, and his response was to get in a helicopter and fly
>>>> to Russia. He both betrayed the electorate in terms of running on the
>>>> basis of doign one thing and then trying to do the opposite, and then
>>>> abandoned the job.
>>>
>>> If every leader who renaged on a manifesto promise was booted out of office
>>
>> He wasn’t booted out of office, he ran away to another country and cut all
>> contact with the people under him. What is a country supposed to do if it’s
>> supposed leader just ups and leaves, and goes no-contact?
>
> When the choice is run away or be lynched by the mob what would you do?

It took from protests starting in November 2013 until 23 February 2014,
of continuous protest, initially peaceful, but then assauled by riot
police with batton rounds, tear gas and stun grenades, then with
military force firing live rounds, before he fled. What any political
leader who respected the democratic process would have done would be to
either recognise that the intended policy was not going to be supported
by the electorate and make a U-turn, or, if not prepared to do that,
call an election to establish a new government that could command the
support of the electorate.

> I'm not making excuses for him but he was democratically elected and the mob
> threw him out. Democracy requires an election to remove someone, not an
> election unless you don't like their policies in which case riot.

He had 3 months to figure out how to deal with the situation, and in
that time all he did was double-down and call in first riot police and
then the army to try to put down the protests and impose his policies
against the political opposition.

There is an expectation with elections that the politicians getting
elected will by and large stand by the policies they stood for election
on, and if they have to make such a drastic change of direction that it
is completely in opposition to their electoral mandate to govern, to
hold fresh elections on the revised platform. To do otherwise is a
clear attempt to subvert the basic democratic principles.

Robin

On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 16:43:20 +0100, Bob wrote:
> Looking at the list of ISO 3166-1 two letter codes, There is a mix of
> countries that use codes that sound odd based on the English name but
> make sense based on the domestic name (CH, DE, HR), ones that are
> clearly based on the English name but not the local name (AT, JP), the
> odd one that makes sense based on a name change (SZ) and some that are
> harder to fathom (MK). Mostly, though, they make sense in the context of
> what the countries are called and what potential ambiguities exist.

The one that always strikes me as odd is Antarctica - AQ. There's no "Q"
in "Antarctica" in any language I know (which I'll admit isn't many).

Though looking at the list, Bonaire, Sint Eustatius and Saba seems to
have BQ, for no obvious reason other than the better options are already
taken. And it seems that BQ was formerly assigned to the British
Antarctic Territory, which also doesn't have a Q in it!

Mike

NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
> "Graeme Wall" <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:tu7tva$gdr4$2@dont-email.me...
>
>>> Even on a long, straight stretch would it be possible for eyes to
>>> differentiate that oncoming headlights at night (as it was apparently)
>>> were on the same track?
>>
>> Anna could confirm (or deny) but, assuming something like British levels
>> of route knowledge, there'd probably be tell tale clues that would reveal
>> the problem. From personal experience at places like Woking and
>> Basingstoke I can pick up whether the approaching train is on the fast or
>> slow lines at night. And that's being stood on the platform.
>
> I'm impressed. I don't think I could do it without being able to see fixed
> objects for comparison until the train was very close, if the fast and slow
> lines are adjacent.
>
> When driving (a car) at night, it's not always possible to tell whether an
> oncoming car is on the correct or wrong side of the road: occasionally I've
> erred on the side of caution and (almost) panic-braked, thinking that a car
> on the correct side looks as if it's on the wrong side (ie a right-side
> failure).

A situation exacerbated by the annoying habit of some taxi and mini cab
drivers to park up to collect or drop off facing you on the side of the
road you are approaching on , and leaving their headlights on. Sometimes on
full beam as when they stopped no one else was in sight but now they are
fumbling with the cash.

GH

According to Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk>:
>The one that always strikes me as odd is Antarctica - AQ. There's no "Q"
>in "Antarctica" in any language I know (which I'll admit isn't many).

In French it's Antarctique.

More to the point, AA is permanently reserved, AN used to be
Netherlands Antilles and is reserved until 2060, and AT AR AC AI are
all in use. What else would you use?

--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 21:08:09 -0000 (UTC), John Levine
<johnl@taugh.com> wrote:

>According to Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk>:
>>The one that always strikes me as odd is Antarctica - AQ. There's no "Q"
>>in "Antarctica" in any language I know (which I'll admit isn't many).
>
>In French it's Antarctique.
>
>More to the point, AA is permanently reserved, AN used to be
>Netherlands Antilles and is reserved until 2060, and AT AR AC AI are
>all in use.

BQ... Be Quick... it's cold.

<Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 09:01:36 +0100
> Bob <bob@domain.com> wrote:
>> On 14.03.23 02:20, Charles Ellson wrote:
>>>> Looking at the list of ISO 3166-1 two letter codes, There is a mix of
>>>> countries that use codes that sound odd based on the English name but
>>>> make sense based on the domestic name (CH, DE, HR), ones that are
>>>> clearly based on the English name but not the local name (AT, JP), the
>>>> odd one that makes sense based on a name change (SZ) and some that are
>>>> harder to fathom (MK).
>>>>
>>> Greek?
>>
>> Ah yes. In Greek, Macedonia is Μακεδόνες so Romanising that to
>
> No idea what greek you wrote there but it comes up as complete gibberish on
> my mac.

Fine on my iPad. The transliteration would be Makedones.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 09:01:36 +0100
>> Bob <bob@domain.com> wrote:
>>> On 14.03.23 02:20, Charles Ellson wrote:
>>>>> Looking at the list of ISO 3166-1 two letter codes, There is a mix of
>>>>> countries that use codes that sound odd based on the English name but
>>>>> make sense based on the domestic name (CH, DE, HR), ones that are
>>>>> clearly based on the English name but not the local name (AT, JP), the
>>>>> odd one that makes sense based on a name change (SZ) and some that are
>>>>> harder to fathom (MK).
>>>>>
>>>> Greek?
>>>
>>> Ah yes. In Greek, Macedonia is Μακεδόνες so Romanising that to
>>
>> No idea what greek you wrote there but it comes up as complete gibberish on
>> my mac.
>
> Fine on my iPad.

Ditto

> The transliteration would be Makedones.
>
> Sam
>

<Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 12:32:24 -0000 (UTC)
> Bob <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>> He was voted in on a promise of signing an agreement for closer ties
>>>> with the EU. When he took office, he promptly dropped the EU agreement
>>>> that was ready to sign and instead signed up for closer ties with
>>>> Russia. The people who had voted him were justafiably pissed off and
>>>> protested over this, and his response was to get in a helicopter and fly
>>>> to Russia. He both betrayed the electorate in terms of running on the
>>>> basis of doign one thing and then trying to do the opposite, and then
>>>> abandoned the job.
>>>
>>> If every leader who renaged on a manifesto promise was booted out of office
>>
>> He wasn’t booted out of office, he ran away to another country and cut all
>> contact with the people under him. What is a country supposed to do if it’s
>> supposed leader just ups and leaves, and goes no-contact?
>
> When the choice is run away or be lynched by the mob what would you do?
>
> I'm not making excuses for him but he was democratically elected and the mob
> threw him out. Democracy requires an election to remove someone, not an
> election unless you don't like their policies in which case riot.

Was Liz Truss removed in an election?

On 14 Mar 2023 20:39:10 GMT, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk>
wrote:

>NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>> "Graeme Wall" <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:tu7tva$gdr4$2@dont-email.me...
>>
>>>> Even on a long, straight stretch would it be possible for eyes to
>>>> differentiate that oncoming headlights at night (as it was apparently)
>>>> were on the same track?
>>>
>>> Anna could confirm (or deny) but, assuming something like British levels
>>> of route knowledge, there'd probably be tell tale clues that would reveal
>>> the problem. From personal experience at places like Woking and
>>> Basingstoke I can pick up whether the approaching train is on the fast or
>>> slow lines at night. And that's being stood on the platform.
>>
>> I'm impressed. I don't think I could do it without being able to see fixed
>> objects for comparison until the train was very close, if the fast and slow
>> lines are adjacent.
>>
>> When driving (a car) at night, it's not always possible to tell whether an
>> oncoming car is on the correct or wrong side of the road: occasionally I've
>> erred on the side of caution and (almost) panic-braked, thinking that a car
>> on the correct side looks as if it's on the wrong side (ie a right-side
>> failure).
>
>A situation exacerbated by the annoying habit of some taxi and mini cab
>drivers to park up to collect or drop off facing you on the side of the
>road you are approaching on , and leaving their headlights on. Sometimes on
>full beam
>
Usually on dipped beam but raised due to the road camber. Not unique
to cab drivers.

>as when they stopped no one else was in sight but now they are
>fumbling with the cash.
>
>GH

On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 09:32:27 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
wrote:

>On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 00:55:56 +0000
>Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 09:42:06 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 00:21:55 +0000
>>>Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>On Sun, 12 Mar 2023 16:10:49 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Sun, 12 Mar 2023 07:35:18 +0000
>>>>>Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>On Sat, 11 Mar 2023 16:54:15 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>>Of course they do, just because a load of immigrants arrived doesn't
>>>>>>>>mean the locals just got up and left.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Obviously you've never been to Tottenham ;)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>I have on numerous occasions and they quite clearly haven't left.
>>>>>
>>>>>Really? Visit any high street in an arc from wood green through tottenham
>>>>>to walthamstow and have a listen to how often you hear english spoken. And
>>if
>>>>>you do it'll probably be in a foreign accent and when the accent is british
>>
>>>>>it'll probably be from an afro caribbean or asian. The majority of white
>>>>>londoners legged it long ago north, east and west.
>>>>>
>>>>What is a "British accent" ?
>>>
>>>Not a turkish or albanian one.
>>>
>>>>What is a "Londoner" ?
>>>
>>>Whats a scotsman, true or otherwise?
>>>
>>Worded that way, anybody.
>
>Oh good. Can we all have a vote in the next indy neverendum then?
>
You can vote in a Scotland-only referendum if you are ordinarily
resident in Scotland at the relevant times.
HMG's rules not Scotland's.

On 14/03/2023 23:37, Recliner wrote:
> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 12:32:24 -0000 (UTC)
>> Bob <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>> He was voted in on a promise of signing an agreement for closer ties
>>>>> with the EU. When he took office, he promptly dropped the EU agreement
>>>>> that was ready to sign and instead signed up for closer ties with
>>>>> Russia. The people who had voted him were justafiably pissed off and
>>>>> protested over this, and his response was to get in a helicopter and fly
>>>>> to Russia. He both betrayed the electorate in terms of running on the
>>>>> basis of doign one thing and then trying to do the opposite, and then
>>>>> abandoned the job.
>>>>
>>>> If every leader who renaged on a manifesto promise was booted out of office
>>>
>>> He wasn’t booted out of office, he ran away to another country and cut all
>>> contact with the people under him. What is a country supposed to do if it’s
>>> supposed leader just ups and leaves, and goes no-contact?
>>
>> When the choice is run away or be lynched by the mob what would you do?
>>
>> I'm not making excuses for him but he was democratically elected and the mob
>> threw him out. Democracy requires an election to remove someone, not an
>> election unless you don't like their policies in which case riot.
>
> Was Liz Truss removed in an election?
>

She wasn't democratically elected either.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 18:25:50 +0100
Bob <bob@domain.com> wrote:
>There is an expectation with elections that the politicians getting
>elected will by and large stand by the policies they stood for election
>on, and if they have to make such a drastic change of direction that it
>is completely in opposition to their electoral mandate to govern, to
>hold fresh elections on the revised platform. To do otherwise is a
>clear attempt to subvert the basic democratic principles.

Presumably you think there should be a general election now given the Tories
have gone back on every tax policy they ever stood for?

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 14/03/2023 23:37, Recliner wrote:
>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 12:32:24 -0000 (UTC)
>>> Bob <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>> He was voted in on a promise of signing an agreement for closer ties
>>>>>> with the EU. When he took office, he promptly dropped the EU agreement
>>>>>> that was ready to sign and instead signed up for closer ties with
>>>>>> Russia. The people who had voted him were justafiably pissed off and
>>>>>> protested over this, and his response was to get in a helicopter and fly
>>>>>> to Russia. He both betrayed the electorate in terms of running on the
>>>>>> basis of doign one thing and then trying to do the opposite, and then
>>>>>> abandoned the job.
>>>>>
>>>>> If every leader who renaged on a manifesto promise was booted out of office
>>>>
>>>> He wasn’t booted out of office, he ran away to another country and cut all
>>>> contact with the people under him. What is a country supposed to do if it’s
>>>> supposed leader just ups and leaves, and goes no-contact?
>>>
>>> When the choice is run away or be lynched by the mob what would you do?
>>>
>>> I'm not making excuses for him but he was democratically elected and the mob
>>> threw him out. Democracy requires an election to remove someone, not an
>>> election unless you don't like their policies in which case riot.
>>
>> Was Liz Truss removed in an election?
>>
>
> She wasn't democratically elected either.

In a sense, she was much more democratically elected than the current PM,
or Teresa May in 2016 or Gordon Brown. They were all elected without a
vote. Truss won 81,326 votes (57.4%) of Tory members to Sunak's 60,399
(42.6%).

On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 23:37:47 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
><Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 12:32:24 -0000 (UTC)
>> Bob <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>> He was voted in on a promise of signing an agreement for closer ties
>>>>> with the EU. When he took office, he promptly dropped the EU agreement
>>>>> that was ready to sign and instead signed up for closer ties with
>>>>> Russia. The people who had voted him were justafiably pissed off and
>>>>> protested over this, and his response was to get in a helicopter and fly
>>>>> to Russia. He both betrayed the electorate in terms of running on the
>>>>> basis of doign one thing and then trying to do the opposite, and then
>>>>> abandoned the job.
>>>>
>>>> If every leader who renaged on a manifesto promise was booted out of
>office
>>>
>>> He wasn’t booted out of office, he ran away to another country and cut all
>
>>> contact with the people under him. What is a country supposed to do if
>it’s
>>> supposed leader just ups and leaves, and goes no-contact?
>>
>> When the choice is run away or be lynched by the mob what would you do?
>>
>> I'm not making excuses for him but he was democratically elected and the mob
>> threw him out. Democracy requires an election to remove someone, not an
>> election unless you don't like their policies in which case riot.
>
>Was Liz Truss removed in an election?

As you're well aware we have a parliamentary system, not a presidential one.
Our system doesn't require an election to change a PM, unlike changing a
president. This distinction is conveniently forgotten by whatever party is
in opposition at any given time when they don't happen to like the current
PM or cabinet.

On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 07:39:28 +0000
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>On 14/03/2023 23:37, Recliner wrote:
>> Was Liz Truss removed in an election?
>>
>
>She wasn't democratically elected either.

Remind us of the percentage of the scottish population who'll get to vote
in the first minister election.

On 15.03.23 09:41, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 18:25:50 +0100
> Bob <bob@domain.com> wrote:
>> There is an expectation with elections that the politicians getting
>> elected will by and large stand by the policies they stood for election
>> on, and if they have to make such a drastic change of direction that it
>> is completely in opposition to their electoral mandate to govern, to
>> hold fresh elections on the revised platform. To do otherwise is a
>> clear attempt to subvert the basic democratic principles.
>
> Presumably you think there should be a general election now given the Tories
> have gone back on every tax policy they ever stood for?

If there is broad public aquiescence to a change in policy, it is
reasonable to continue in a different direction. If there is broad
public discontent over a change in direction, then yes, there should be
a general election. As a rule of thumb, if there are no large scale
public protests, an election is not needed. If the only way to maintain
law and order in the face of public protests is with the deployment of
riot police, firing batton rounds, using stun grenades and tear gas,
then the situation is untennable without a fresh democratic mandate.

In the context of Ukraine, that stage was reached in December 2013.
Yanukovyc attemtped to continue forcing is unpopular policy through for
2 more months, and went on to deploy the military with live rounds to
shoot to kill the civilian population.

Robin

On 15.03.23 00:37, Recliner wrote:
> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 12:32:24 -0000 (UTC)
>> Bob <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>> He was voted in on a promise of signing an agreement for closer ties
>>>>> with the EU. When he took office, he promptly dropped the EU agreement
>>>>> that was ready to sign and instead signed up for closer ties with
>>>>> Russia. The people who had voted him were justafiably pissed off and
>>>>> protested over this, and his response was to get in a helicopter and fly
>>>>> to Russia. He both betrayed the electorate in terms of running on the
>>>>> basis of doign one thing and then trying to do the opposite, and then
>>>>> abandoned the job.
>>>>
>>>> If every leader who renaged on a manifesto promise was booted out of office
>>>
>>> He wasn’t booted out of office, he ran away to another country and cut all
>>> contact with the people under him. What is a country supposed to do if it’s
>>> supposed leader just ups and leaves, and goes no-contact?
>>
>> When the choice is run away or be lynched by the mob what would you do?
>>
>> I'm not making excuses for him but he was democratically elected and the mob
>> threw him out. Democracy requires an election to remove someone, not an
>> election unless you don't like their policies in which case riot.
>
> Was Liz Truss removed in an election?

She wasn't removed, she chose to resign.

Robin

On 15/03/2023 07:39, Graeme Wall wrote:
> On 14/03/2023 23:37, Recliner wrote:
>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 12:32:24 -0000 (UTC)
>>> Bob <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>> He was voted in on a promise of signing an agreement for closer ties
>>>>>> with the EU. When he took office, he promptly dropped the EU
>>>>>> agreement
>>>>>> that was ready to sign and instead signed up for closer ties with
>>>>>> Russia. The people who had voted him were justafiably pissed off and
>>>>>> protested over this, and his response was to get in a helicopter
>>>>>> and fly
>>>>>> to Russia. He both betrayed the electorate in terms of running on the
>>>>>> basis of doign one thing and then trying to do the opposite, and then
>>>>>> abandoned the job.
>>>>>
>>>>> If every leader who renaged on a manifesto promise was booted out
>>>>> of office
>>>>
>>>> He wasn’t booted out of office, he ran away to another country and
>>>> cut all
>>>> contact with the people under him. What is a country supposed to do
>>>> if it’s
>>>> supposed leader just ups and leaves, and goes no-contact?
>>>
>>> When the choice is run away or be lynched by the mob what would you do?
>>>
>>> I'm not making excuses for him but he was democratically elected and
>>> the mob
>>> threw him out. Democracy requires an election to remove someone, not an
>>> election unless you don't like their policies in which case riot.
>>
>> Was Liz Truss removed in an election?
>>
>
> She wasn't democratically elected either.

We now have an unelected second generation UK prime minister. Unelected
by the electorate anyway.

On 15.03.23 12:45, Coffee wrote:
> On 15/03/2023 07:39, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> On 14/03/2023 23:37, Recliner wrote:
>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 12:32:24 -0000 (UTC)
>>>> Bob <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> He was voted in on a promise of signing an agreement for closer ties
>>>>>>> with the EU. When he took office, he promptly dropped the EU
>>>>>>> agreement
>>>>>>> that was ready to sign and instead signed up for closer ties with
>>>>>>> Russia. The people who had voted him were justafiably pissed off and
>>>>>>> protested over this, and his response was to get in a helicopter
>>>>>>> and fly
>>>>>>> to Russia. He both betrayed the electorate in terms of running on
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> basis of doign one thing and then trying to do the opposite, and
>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>> abandoned the job.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If every leader who renaged on a manifesto promise was booted out
>>>>>> of office
>>>>>
>>>>> He wasn’t booted out of office, he ran away to another country and
>>>>> cut all
>>>>> contact with the people under him. What is a country supposed to do
>>>>> if it’s
>>>>> supposed leader just ups and leaves, and goes no-contact?
>>>>
>>>> When the choice is run away or be lynched by the mob what would you do?
>>>>
>>>> I'm not making excuses for him but he was democratically elected and
>>>> the mob
>>>> threw him out. Democracy requires an election to remove someone, not an
>>>> election unless you don't like their policies in which case riot.
>>>
>>> Was Liz Truss removed in an election?
>>>
>>
>> She wasn't democratically elected either.
>
> We now have an unelected second generation UK prime minister.  Unelected
> by the electorate anyway.

He was elected by the people of Richmond, Yorkshire, taking 63.6% of the
vote.

Robin

On 15/03/2023 11:52, Bob wrote:
> On 15.03.23 12:45, Coffee wrote:
>> On 15/03/2023 07:39, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>> On 14/03/2023 23:37, Recliner wrote:
>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 12:32:24 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>> Bob <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> He was voted in on a promise of signing an agreement for closer
>>>>>>>> ties
>>>>>>>> with the EU. When he took office, he promptly dropped the EU
>>>>>>>> agreement
>>>>>>>> that was ready to sign and instead signed up for closer ties with
>>>>>>>> Russia. The people who had voted him were justafiably pissed off
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> protested over this, and his response was to get in a helicopter
>>>>>>>> and fly
>>>>>>>> to Russia. He both betrayed the electorate in terms of running
>>>>>>>> on the
>>>>>>>> basis of doign one thing and then trying to do the opposite, and
>>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>>> abandoned the job.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If every leader who renaged on a manifesto promise was booted out
>>>>>>> of office
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He wasn’t booted out of office, he ran away to another country and
>>>>>> cut all
>>>>>> contact with the people under him. What is a country supposed to
>>>>>> do if it’s
>>>>>> supposed leader just ups and leaves, and goes no-contact?
>>>>>
>>>>> When the choice is run away or be lynched by the mob what would you
>>>>> do?
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not making excuses for him but he was democratically elected
>>>>> and the mob
>>>>> threw him out. Democracy requires an election to remove someone,
>>>>> not an
>>>>> election unless you don't like their policies in which case riot.
>>>>
>>>> Was Liz Truss removed in an election?
>>>>
>>>
>>> She wasn't democratically elected either.
>>
>> We now have an unelected second generation UK prime minister.
>> Unelected by the electorate anyway.
>
> He was elected by the people of Richmond, Yorkshire, taking 63.6% of the
> vote.

He might have been but he wasn't elected as prime minister by the
electorate.

Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
> On 15/03/2023 11:52, Bob wrote:
>> On 15.03.23 12:45, Coffee wrote:
>>> On 15/03/2023 07:39, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>> On 14/03/2023 23:37, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 12:32:24 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>>> Bob <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> He was voted in on a promise of signing an agreement for closer
>>>>>>>>> ties
>>>>>>>>> with the EU. When he took office, he promptly dropped the EU
>>>>>>>>> agreement
>>>>>>>>> that was ready to sign and instead signed up for closer ties with
>>>>>>>>> Russia. The people who had voted him were justafiably pissed off
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> protested over this, and his response was to get in a helicopter
>>>>>>>>> and fly
>>>>>>>>> to Russia. He both betrayed the electorate in terms of running
>>>>>>>>> on the
>>>>>>>>> basis of doign one thing and then trying to do the opposite, and
>>>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>>>> abandoned the job.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If every leader who renaged on a manifesto promise was booted out
>>>>>>>> of office
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He wasn’t booted out of office, he ran away to another country and
>>>>>>> cut all
>>>>>>> contact with the people under him. What is a country supposed to
>>>>>>> do if it’s
>>>>>>> supposed leader just ups and leaves, and goes no-contact?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When the choice is run away or be lynched by the mob what would you
>>>>>> do?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not making excuses for him but he was democratically elected
>>>>>> and the mob
>>>>>> threw him out. Democracy requires an election to remove someone,
>>>>>> not an
>>>>>> election unless you don't like their policies in which case riot.
>>>>>
>>>>> Was Liz Truss removed in an election?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> She wasn't democratically elected either.
>>>
>>> We now have an unelected second generation UK prime minister.
>>> Unelected by the electorate anyway.
>>
>> He was elected by the people of Richmond, Yorkshire, taking 63.6% of the
>> vote.
>
> He might have been but he wasn't elected as prime minister by the
> electorate.

No one is elected as prime minister by the electorate - the PM is asked by
the monarch to form a government. The PM is currently elected to
parliament but that hasn’t always been so. People may vote in the
expectation that the party they vote for will include a leader who will be
chosen as PM but they don’t elect him or her to that position.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 12:24:10 +0000, Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:

>On 15/03/2023 11:52, Bob wrote:
>> On 15.03.23 12:45, Coffee wrote:
>>> On 15/03/2023 07:39, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>> On 14/03/2023 23:37, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 12:32:24 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>>> Bob <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> He was voted in on a promise of signing an agreement for closer
>>>>>>>>> ties
>>>>>>>>> with the EU. When he took office, he promptly dropped the EU
>>>>>>>>> agreement
>>>>>>>>> that was ready to sign and instead signed up for closer ties with
>>>>>>>>> Russia. The people who had voted him were justafiably pissed off
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> protested over this, and his response was to get in a helicopter
>>>>>>>>> and fly
>>>>>>>>> to Russia. He both betrayed the electorate in terms of running
>>>>>>>>> on the
>>>>>>>>> basis of doign one thing and then trying to do the opposite, and
>>>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>>>> abandoned the job.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If every leader who renaged on a manifesto promise was booted out
>>>>>>>> of office
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He wasn’t booted out of office, he ran away to another country and
>>>>>>> cut all
>>>>>>> contact with the people under him. What is a country supposed to
>>>>>>> do if it’s
>>>>>>> supposed leader just ups and leaves, and goes no-contact?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When the choice is run away or be lynched by the mob what would you
>>>>>> do?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not making excuses for him but he was democratically elected
>>>>>> and the mob
>>>>>> threw him out. Democracy requires an election to remove someone,
>>>>>> not an
>>>>>> election unless you don't like their policies in which case riot.
>>>>>
>>>>> Was Liz Truss removed in an election?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> She wasn't democratically elected either.
>>>
>>> We now have an unelected second generation UK prime minister.
>>> Unelected by the electorate anyway.
>>
>> He was elected by the people of Richmond, Yorkshire, taking 63.6% of the
>> vote.
>
>He might have been but he wasn't elected as prime minister by the
>electorate.

Please help me: When was a UK PM ever elected as PM by the electorate?

On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 12:24:10 +0000
Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>On 15/03/2023 11:52, Bob wrote:
>> He was elected by the people of Richmond, Yorkshire, taking 63.6% of the
>> vote.
>
>He might have been but he wasn't elected as prime minister by the
>electorate.

No prime minister has ever been elected by the electorate as we don't have
a presidential system. HTH.