On 08/12/2022 16:32, Java Jive wrote:
> On 08/12/2022 15:55, Mark Carver wrote:
>>
>> On 08/12/2022 15:43, NY wrote:
>>>
>>> How will a damaged fibre will be replaced - eg if a car hits a pole
>>> or a tall vehicle hits a cable, or if someone strims an underground
>>> fibre at the point where it comes out of the ground? Will each pole
>>> have fan-out points to all the cables that radiate from it, and will
>>> BTOR engineers be able to splice in a new fibre, making good the
>>> connections at the pole and the fibre termination point in the house?
>>
>> Shit happens
>>
>> Took Openreach 6 days (and a lot of engineers) to splice everything
>> back together
>>
>> https://www.itv.com/news/meridian/2022-06-09/around-4000-homes-without-internet-after-builders-cut-through-fibre-cables
>
>
> Machinery photo looks a little like a posthole borer used on farms,
> but AFAIAA they don't usually have toothed edges to the auger, and of
> course would normally be vertical, not horizontal. Some sort of duct
> tunnelling device perhaps?  Anyone know?
>
The description of 'builders' in the article is a little misleading.
It's a two year job to totally rebuild a major roundabout, and it's been
total chaos (with still another 15 months to go)

I think they were attempting to stick in piles for a new gantry when the
accident happened.

Java Jive wrote:

> Mark Carver wrote:
>
>> <https://www.itv.com/news/meridian/2022-06-09/around-4000-homes-without-internet-after-builders-cut-through-fibre-cables>
>
> Machinery photo looks a little like a posthole borer used on farms, but AFAIAA
> they don't usually have toothed edges to the auger, and of course would normally
> be vertical, not horizontal.  Some sort of duct tunnelling device perhaps?
> Anyone know?

I'd guess it's a vertical auger for drilling holes for poured concrete/rebar piles?

On 08/12/2022 16:18, Jeff Layman wrote:
> On 08/12/2022 15:34, charles wrote:
>> In article <tmsvmf$r4o7$2@dont-email.me>, Jeff Layman
>> <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 08/12/2022 15:02, Mark Carver wrote:
>>>> On 08/12/2022 14:52, Jeff Layman wrote:
>>>>> On 08/12/2022 14:12, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>>>> Woody wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (supposedly) by the end of 2025 <everyone> should have FTTP
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's not what's promised.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> By 2025 nobody should have POTS, what they will have instead is be
>>>>>> VoIP, but that might be over ADSL/VDSL/carrier-pigeon ...
>>>>>
>>>>> I await to see what it will happen here, as there's no FTTP on the
>>>>> horizon. Fortunately FTTC has sufficient speed for my needs.
>>>>>
>>>>> It does amuse me though, that living in a small village with about
>>>>> 250
>>>>> houses, we are being surrounded by new estates under construction
>>>>> totalling about 3000 houses. They will all have FTTP and cable TV
>>>>> as a
>>>>> matter of course, as the underground pipes are in the infrastructure
>>>>> plans. We, of course, have telephone poles...
>>>>>
>>>> If you currently have copper from a pole feeding your house,
>>>> eventually
>>>> you'll almost certainly have fibre fed from that pole (or a
>>>> replacement
>>>> pole)
>>>>
>>>> Consider that A Good Thing, because if you're currently underground
>>>> fed, but without a duct, you'll have your front garden dug up to
>>>> provide FTTP.
>>
>>> Do they retain the copper wire to act as a support for the fibre, or
>>> does it have enough tensile strength to support itself? It's about 30
>>> metres from the pole to the house connection at the top of a gable-end
>>> wall.
>>
>> My copper wire is completely separate from the fible - although they
>> both
>> start from the same pole. The brackets on the hose are about 18" apart.
>
> Don't they have to run the fibre outside down the wall to wherever it
> will enter the house? At present, the copper wire enters the house
> through the gable-end wall and runs internally across the the loft to
> where it descends internally to the the
> phone socket. Conveniently there is a double mains power socket close
> to the current phone socket. I assume they would try to keep the
> position of any new socket relatively close to the current one if
> there's power available.
>
They run the fibre to a point where they can fix a splice box (CSP), to
convert into the internal fibre run that leads to the ONT. You are not
obliged to have  the ONT near your copper master socket, only to
somewhere where there's power nearby. They prefer to have the CSP at
ground level, and outside where they can get to it.

https://www.increasebroadbandspeed.co.uk/fttp-full-fibre-broadband-installation

On 08/12/2022 17:11, Andy Burns wrote:
> Java Jive wrote:
>
>> Mark Carver wrote:
>>
>>> <https://www.itv.com/news/meridian/2022-06-09/around-4000-homes-without-internet-after-builders-cut-through-fibre-cables>
>>
>> Machinery photo looks a little like a posthole borer used on farms, but AFAIAA
>> they don't usually have toothed edges to the auger, and of course would normally
>> be vertical, not horizontal.  Some sort of duct tunnelling device perhaps?
>> Anyone know?
>
> I'd guess it's a vertical auger for drilling holes for poured concrete/rebar piles?

Possible, but I thought that those types of augers were hollow, as the
concrete was forced through as they were withdrawn so anything soft they
drilled through wouldn't collapse into the hole left.

--

Jeff

On 08/12/2022 16:36, Scott wrote:
> On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 16:18:37 +0000, Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> On 08/12/2022 15:34, charles wrote:
>>> In article <tmsvmf$r4o7$2@dont-email.me>, Jeff Layman
>>> <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 08/12/2022 15:02, Mark Carver wrote:
>>>>> On 08/12/2022 14:52, Jeff Layman wrote:
>>>>>> On 08/12/2022 14:12, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>>>>> Woody wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (supposedly) by the end of 2025 <everyone> should have FTTP
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's not what's promised.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> By 2025 nobody should have POTS, what they will have instead is be
>>>>>>> VoIP, but that might be over ADSL/VDSL/carrier-pigeon ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I await to see what it will happen here, as there's no FTTP on the
>>>>>> horizon. Fortunately FTTC has sufficient speed for my needs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It does amuse me though, that living in a small village with about 250
>>>>>> houses, we are being surrounded by new estates under construction
>>>>>> totalling about 3000 houses. They will all have FTTP and cable TV as a
>>>>>> matter of course, as the underground pipes are in the infrastructure
>>>>>> plans. We, of course, have telephone poles...
>>>>>>
>>>>> If you currently have copper from a pole feeding your house, eventually
>>>>> you'll almost certainly have fibre fed from that pole (or a replacement
>>>>> pole)
>>>>>
>>>>> Consider that A Good Thing, because if you're currently underground
>>>>> fed, but without a duct, you'll have your front garden dug up to
>>>>> provide FTTP.
>>>
>>>> Do they retain the copper wire to act as a support for the fibre, or
>>>> does it have enough tensile strength to support itself? It's about 30
>>>> metres from the pole to the house connection at the top of a gable-end
>>>> wall.
>>>
>>> My copper wire is completely separate from the fible - although they both
>>> start from the same pole. The brackets on the hose are about 18" apart.
>>
>> Don't they have to run the fibre outside down the wall to wherever it
>> will enter the house?
>
> If so, is there some form of wayleave or is the consent of the
> property owners needed? I live in a flat. Can I be compelled to have
> someone else's cable running down my outside wall? I will object
> until the neighbours agree to essential repairs.

If your are a leaseholder that would usually be a matter for the freeholder.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 17:24:55 +0000, Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:

>On 08/12/2022 16:36, Scott wrote:
>> On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 16:18:37 +0000, Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 08/12/2022 15:34, charles wrote:
>>>> In article <tmsvmf$r4o7$2@dont-email.me>, Jeff Layman
>>>> <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> On 08/12/2022 15:02, Mark Carver wrote:
>>>>>> On 08/12/2022 14:52, Jeff Layman wrote:
>>>>>>> On 08/12/2022 14:12, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>>>>>> Woody wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (supposedly) by the end of 2025 <everyone> should have FTTP
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's not what's promised.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> By 2025 nobody should have POTS, what they will have instead is be
>>>>>>>> VoIP, but that might be over ADSL/VDSL/carrier-pigeon ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I await to see what it will happen here, as there's no FTTP on the
>>>>>>> horizon. Fortunately FTTC has sufficient speed for my needs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It does amuse me though, that living in a small village with about 250
>>>>>>> houses, we are being surrounded by new estates under construction
>>>>>>> totalling about 3000 houses. They will all have FTTP and cable TV as a
>>>>>>> matter of course, as the underground pipes are in the infrastructure
>>>>>>> plans. We, of course, have telephone poles...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you currently have copper from a pole feeding your house, eventually
>>>>>> you'll almost certainly have fibre fed from that pole (or a replacement
>>>>>> pole)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Consider that A Good Thing, because if you're currently underground
>>>>>> fed, but without a duct, you'll have your front garden dug up to
>>>>>> provide FTTP.
>>>>
>>>>> Do they retain the copper wire to act as a support for the fibre, or
>>>>> does it have enough tensile strength to support itself? It's about 30
>>>>> metres from the pole to the house connection at the top of a gable-end
>>>>> wall.
>>>>
>>>> My copper wire is completely separate from the fible - although they both
>>>> start from the same pole. The brackets on the hose are about 18" apart.
>>>
>>> Don't they have to run the fibre outside down the wall to wherever it
>>> will enter the house?
>>
>> If so, is there some form of wayleave or is the consent of the
>> property owners needed? I live in a flat. Can I be compelled to have
>> someone else's cable running down my outside wall? I will object
>> until the neighbours agree to essential repairs.
>
>If your are a leaseholder that would usually be a matter for the freeholder.

I live in Scotland so there is no freeholder. I am wondering if some
form of wayleave exists. Otherwise, I assume consent will be needed.

In article <htKdnRELfK9Piw_-nZ2dnZfqnPednZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, NY
<me@privacy.net> wrote:
> On 08/12/2022 15:55, Mark Carver wrote:
> > On 08/12/2022 15:43, NY wrote:
> >> How will a damaged fibre will be replaced - eg if a car hits a pole or
> >> a tall vehicle hits a cable, or if someone strims an underground
> >> fibre at the point where it comes out of the ground? Will each pole
> >> have fan-out points to all the cables that radiate from it, and will
> >> BTOR engineers be able to splice in a new fibre, making good the
> >> connections at the pole and the fibre termination point in the house?

> > Shit happens
> >
> > Took Openreach 6 days (and a lot of engineers) to splice everything
> > back together
> >
> > https://www.itv.com/news/meridian/2022-06-09/around-4000-homes-without-internet-after-builders-cut-through-fibre-cables

> Yes. I wasn't talking about how long or short the time will be before
> service is restored.

> I was talking about how it is physically restored, given that joining a
> replacement fibre to the truncated part of the existing fibre is a *lot*
> more difficult than joining copper wires.

when my FTTP was istalled the fitter had a very neat cable splicing machine
at was used to connect the main feed into the feeder into the house.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

In article <jvejvbFh7g7U1@mid.individual.net>, Andy Burns
<usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Jeff Layman wrote:

> > Don't they have to run the fibre outside down the wall to wherever it
> > will enter the house?

> I think the official line is that the drop-cable has to come down to
> ground level, get spliced and then if necessary go back up to e.g. first
> floor level, so that in future they can do tests from outside, without
> ladders; but I've heard of a handful of cases where the engineer on the
> day takes a pragmatic approach and *will* route the fibre inside at
> eaves level ...

Thye used a "Cherry pcker" to fix the fibre to my eaves. No ladder
involved.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 08/12/2022 16:45, charles wrote:
> In article <rUudnY_U85PyYgz-nZ2dnZfqn_GdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, NY
> <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>> On 08/12/2022 14:08, Scott wrote:
>>> On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 13:54:11 +0000, Mark Carver
>>> <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 08/12/2022 13:51, Scott wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> How may people would you say have broadband connection without
>>>>> knowing it?
>>>>>
>>>> My mum has a PC and a Smart Telly in her house (And 40 Mb/s FTTC
>>>> because it is now cheaper than 17 Mb/s ADSL she used to have). She
>>>> can't operate either of them, I do it for her when I visit.
>>>
>>> Some people value their independence and I tend to think it is
>>> insulting to think it can be taken away. If she can't operate the
>>> telly I expect she is pretty p**sed off about it.
>
>> My parents, who are in their 80s,
>
>
> What has being "in their 80s" have to do with anything. I'm in my 80s.

Only that *on average* people become less confident with technical
matters than they used to be. It is sad to see how much less confident
my dad is with things that he'd have taken in his stride ten years ago,
because of the onset of mild dementia. My mum was never very technically
literate, then she learned a lot when she got a computer, but is now
less confident than she was and is reverting to how she was before the
1990s.

You *may* be in the minority if you are still as skilled as you are at
that age.

On 08/12/2022 10:45, Mark Carver wrote:
> On 08/12/2022 10:43, NY wrote:
>> On 08/12/2022 10:37, Mark Carver wrote:
>>> On 08/12/2022 09:48, Phil_M wrote:

>>>> How do you record streaming to watch later?  I've just started
>>>> watching Blue Planet 2 which I recorded ages ago.  How long will the
>>>> streamed programmes be available for?
>>>   For as long as the broadcaster allows you access. It's 'their'
>>> show, not 'yours'.
>>
>> There is need for a permanent archive of programmes which can never be
>> deleted - at a price. It gives you the same flexibility as if you buy
>> a DVD: you can watch the programme as many times as you like after
>> that, safe in the knowledge that it will never be deleted, either
>> because the viewing time has expired or for editorial/legal reasons.
>
> I don't understand this obsession with wanting to keep TV recordings,
> I've got a hard drive still full of stuff I haven't watched once yet.

If I have a copy of a film I have recorded onto DVD, I never have to
watch it if I'm not bothered. If it was only live, I would have to
decide whether I wanted to watch it or miss the opportunity, possibly
for ever. This is why I have DVDs of films - all ones I have seen at
least once.

--
Max Demian

On 08/12/2022 10:45, Mark Carver wrote:
> I don't understand this obsession with wanting to keep TV recordings,
> I've got a hard drive still full of stuff I haven't watched once yet.

I have dug out copies of programmes several years old in the past, often
for someone in the colonies.

On 08/12/2022 10:59, Scott wrote:
> When the BBC numpty at the DCMS select committee said Spotlight was
> the most successful 6.30 news programme, did he mean it was more
> successful than Reporting Scotland?

I tend to use BBC Wales because occasionally I want to watch programmes
on there so have it set as default on iPlayer, usually when there is one
of the North Wales crime series like Hinterland.

On 08/12/2022 11:25, Woody wrote:
> No reader should forget that (supposedly) by the end of 2025 <everyone>
> should have FTTP so that BT can remove all of the copper.

I think that is very optimistic (or is pessimistic!).

On 08/12/2022 12:48, NY wrote:
> "Mark Carver" <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> news:jve1fkFcqtjU6@mid.individual.net...
>> On 08/12/2022 11:25, Woody wrote:

>>> No reader should forget that (supposedly) by the end of 2025 <everyone>
>>> should have FTTP so that BT can remove all of the copper.
>>
>> No !! And BT have never said that. By the end of 2025 the copper truck
>> cables (from exchange to FTTC cabinets) will be decommissioned.
>> Millions will still be relying on their copper 'cabinet side' lines well
>> into the 2030s using FTTC (and VoIP based phone 'lines')
>
> I think early publicity from BTOR (filtered via newspapers etc) implied
> that
> all houses would get FTTP, and that FTTC/VDSL would be withdrawn. That was
> the initial impression that I got when there was all the publicity a few
> months ago.

The "premises" would include flats like mine which have copper embedded
in the concrete walls. I don't see them pulling fibre through the same
channels!

--
Max Demian

"R. Mark Clayton" <notyalckram@gmail.com> wrote in message news:fddef6b6-77b7-4fc8-8ae7-6426428223acn@googlegroups.com...
> On Wednesday, 7 December 2022 at 23:05:33 UTC, Alexander wrote:
> > I wonder how the BBC will continue to fund itself when terrestrial
> > TV is eventually switched off.
> >
> > Currently their forced funding model relies solely on the entirely false
> > claim that 'Freeview doesn't support encryption, as would be required
> > for subscription-based services'.
>
> Yes it did, was called ITV / ON digital (death bed renaming to spare ITV blushes) and was quickly and comprehensively hacked.

Several different encryption schemes are suppored on DVB-T and T2,
including ones that are much more robust than the one used by ONDigital.

Every 'Freeview' TV has a card slot on the rear (called a 'Common
Interface'), to facilitate access to encrypted services.

On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 15:26:07 +0000, Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

>Do they retain the copper wire to act as a support for the fibre, or
>does it have enough tensile strength to support itself? It's about 30
>metres from the pole to the house connection at the top of a gable-end wall.

In my case, the copper cable from a pole across the road was removed
and replaced with the fibre. No point in keeping both as the copper
wouldn't be used and it would just add to the weight. They'll be doing
this to lots of installations so I guess the fibre must be designed
for the same conditions as the copper cable it replaces. It looks
pretty tough to me.

Rod.

On 08/12/2022 17:16, Mark Carver wrote:
> On 08/12/2022 16:18, Jeff Layman wrote:
>> On 08/12/2022 15:34, charles wrote:
>>> In article <tmsvmf$r4o7$2@dont-email.me>, Jeff Layman
>>> <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 08/12/2022 15:02, Mark Carver wrote:
>>>>> On 08/12/2022 14:52, Jeff Layman wrote:
>>>>>> On 08/12/2022 14:12, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>>>>> Woody wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (supposedly) by the end of 2025 <everyone> should have FTTP
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's not what's promised.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> By 2025 nobody should have POTS, what they will have instead is be
>>>>>>> VoIP, but that might be over ADSL/VDSL/carrier-pigeon ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I await to see what it will happen here, as there's no FTTP on the
>>>>>> horizon. Fortunately FTTC has sufficient speed for my needs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It does amuse me though, that living in a small village with about
>>>>>> 250
>>>>>> houses, we are being surrounded by new estates under construction
>>>>>> totalling about 3000 houses. They will all have FTTP and cable TV
>>>>>> as a
>>>>>> matter of course, as the underground pipes are in the infrastructure
>>>>>> plans. We, of course, have telephone poles...
>>>>>>
>>>>> If you currently have copper from a pole feeding your house,
>>>>> eventually
>>>>> you'll almost certainly have fibre fed from that pole (or a
>>>>> replacement
>>>>> pole)
>>>>>
>>>>> Consider that A Good Thing, because if you're currently underground
>>>>> fed, but without a duct, you'll have your front garden dug up to
>>>>> provide FTTP.
>>>
>>>> Do they retain the copper wire to act as a support for the fibre, or
>>>> does it have enough tensile strength to support itself? It's about 30
>>>> metres from the pole to the house connection at the top of a gable-end
>>>> wall.
>>>
>>> My copper wire is completely separate from the fible - although they
>>> both
>>> start from the same pole. The brackets on the hose are about 18" apart.
>>
>> Don't they have to run the fibre outside down the wall to wherever it
>> will enter the house? At present, the copper wire enters the house
>> through the gable-end wall and runs internally across the the loft to
>> where it descends internally to the the
>> phone socket. Conveniently there is a double mains power socket close
>> to the current phone socket. I assume they would try to keep the
>> position of any new socket relatively close to the current one if
>> there's power available.
>>
> They run the fibre to a point where they can fix a splice box (CSP), to
> convert into the internal fibre run that leads to the ONT. You are not
> obliged to have  the ONT near your copper master socket, only to
> somewhere where there's power nearby. They prefer to have the CSP at
> ground level, and outside where they can get to it.
>
> https://www.increasebroadbandspeed.co.uk/fttp-full-fibre-broadband-installation

There's not an awful lot of choice as I live in a bungalow! It wouldn't
bother me if they put the CSP near where the copper enters now or ran
the fibre down an outside wall to where the current phone socket is
inside the wall, and put the CSP there. The ONT would be inside on the
lounge wall near to where my router/modem is now.

--

Jeff

On Thu, 08 Dec 2022 18:25:31 +0000, Roderick Stewart
<rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

>On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 15:26:07 +0000, Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>Do they retain the copper wire to act as a support for the fibre, or
>>does it have enough tensile strength to support itself? It's about 30
>>metres from the pole to the house connection at the top of a gable-end wall.
>
>In my case, the copper cable from a pole across the road was removed
>and replaced with the fibre. No point in keeping both as the copper
>wouldn't be used and it would just add to the weight. They'll be doing
>this to lots of installations so I guess the fibre must be designed
>for the same conditions as the copper cable it replaces. It looks
>pretty tough to me.
>
I thought the scrap value of all the copper was the real driver.

On 08/12/2022 16:36, Scott wrote:
> If so, is there some form of wayleave or is the consent of the
> property owners needed? I live in a flat. Can I be compelled to have
> someone else's cable running down my outside wall?

You'd have to look at your lease. In the case of my lease, the outside
of the walls belongs to the freeholder, but there is also a provision
giving a right to run cables, pipes, etc., through other flats.

"at all reasonable times during the said term on notice to permit the
Lessor and its lessees
with workmen and others to enter into and upon the Demised Premises or
any part thereof for the purpose of repairing any adjoining or
contiguous premises and for the purpose of making repairing maintaining
rebuilding cleansing lighting and keeping in order and good condition
all water pipes sewers drains watercourses electric wires and cables gas
pipes gutters party structures or other conveniences belonging to
serving or used for the same and
also for the purpose of laying down maintaining repairing and testing
water pipes sewers drains watercourses electric wires and cables and gas
pipes and for similar purposes the Lessor or its lessees (as the case
may be) making good all damage occasioned thereby to the Demised Premises"

Openreach are also a "statutory provider", which gives them some rights
over other's land, although I'm not sure if they apply in this case.

On 08/12/2022 18:19, Alexander wrote:
> Several different encryption schemes are suppored on DVB-T and T2,
> including ones that are much more robust than the one used by ONDigital.
>
> Every 'Freeview' TV has a card slot on the rear (called a 'Common
> Interface'), to facilitate access to encrypted services.

I think more accurately, there was provision for a card but I am fairly
sure it is not fitted in mine. I would think the chances of getting one
fitted in a TV bought around the time of DSO is just about zero.

I don't think my TV has even had any softwate updates for years.

On 08/12/2022 17:26, Scott wrote:
> On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 17:24:55 +0000, Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
>
>> On 08/12/2022 16:36, Scott wrote:
>>> On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 16:18:37 +0000, Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 08/12/2022 15:34, charles wrote:
>>>>> In article <tmsvmf$r4o7$2@dont-email.me>, Jeff Layman
>>>>> <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> On 08/12/2022 15:02, Mark Carver wrote:
>>>>>>> On 08/12/2022 14:52, Jeff Layman wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 08/12/2022 14:12, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Woody wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> (supposedly) by the end of 2025 <everyone> should have FTTP
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That's not what's promised.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> By 2025 nobody should have POTS, what they will have instead is be
>>>>>>>>> VoIP, but that might be over ADSL/VDSL/carrier-pigeon ...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I await to see what it will happen here, as there's no FTTP on the
>>>>>>>> horizon. Fortunately FTTC has sufficient speed for my needs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It does amuse me though, that living in a small village with about 250
>>>>>>>> houses, we are being surrounded by new estates under construction
>>>>>>>> totalling about 3000 houses. They will all have FTTP and cable TV as a
>>>>>>>> matter of course, as the underground pipes are in the infrastructure
>>>>>>>> plans. We, of course, have telephone poles...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you currently have copper from a pole feeding your house, eventually
>>>>>>> you'll almost certainly have fibre fed from that pole (or a replacement
>>>>>>> pole)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Consider that A Good Thing, because if you're currently underground
>>>>>>> fed, but without a duct, you'll have your front garden dug up to
>>>>>>> provide FTTP.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Do they retain the copper wire to act as a support for the fibre, or
>>>>>> does it have enough tensile strength to support itself? It's about 30
>>>>>> metres from the pole to the house connection at the top of a gable-end
>>>>>> wall.
>>>>>
>>>>> My copper wire is completely separate from the fible - although they both
>>>>> start from the same pole. The brackets on the hose are about 18" apart.
>>>>
>>>> Don't they have to run the fibre outside down the wall to wherever it
>>>> will enter the house?
>>>
>>> If so, is there some form of wayleave or is the consent of the
>>> property owners needed? I live in a flat. Can I be compelled to have
>>> someone else's cable running down my outside wall? I will object
>>> until the neighbours agree to essential repairs.
>>
>> If your are a leaseholder that would usually be a matter for the freeholder.
>
> I live in Scotland so there is no freeholder. I am wondering if some
> form of wayleave exists. Otherwise, I assume consent will be needed.

I'm an ignoramus on tenements but thought there were often cable ducts
or conduits or the like which were common property ("pertinents"?). If
that's where current phones are run then I'd expect the fibre to be
pulled through them.
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 19:06:10 +0000, Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:

>On 08/12/2022 17:26, Scott wrote:
>> On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 17:24:55 +0000, Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 08/12/2022 16:36, Scott wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 16:18:37 +0000, Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 08/12/2022 15:34, charles wrote:
>>>>>> In article <tmsvmf$r4o7$2@dont-email.me>, Jeff Layman
>>>>>> <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 08/12/2022 15:02, Mark Carver wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 08/12/2022 14:52, Jeff Layman wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 08/12/2022 14:12, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Woody wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> (supposedly) by the end of 2025 <everyone> should have FTTP
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That's not what's promised.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> By 2025 nobody should have POTS, what they will have instead is be
>>>>>>>>>> VoIP, but that might be over ADSL/VDSL/carrier-pigeon ...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I await to see what it will happen here, as there's no FTTP on the
>>>>>>>>> horizon. Fortunately FTTC has sufficient speed for my needs.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It does amuse me though, that living in a small village with about 250
>>>>>>>>> houses, we are being surrounded by new estates under construction
>>>>>>>>> totalling about 3000 houses. They will all have FTTP and cable TV as a
>>>>>>>>> matter of course, as the underground pipes are in the infrastructure
>>>>>>>>> plans. We, of course, have telephone poles...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you currently have copper from a pole feeding your house, eventually
>>>>>>>> you'll almost certainly have fibre fed from that pole (or a replacement
>>>>>>>> pole)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Consider that A Good Thing, because if you're currently underground
>>>>>>>> fed, but without a duct, you'll have your front garden dug up to
>>>>>>>> provide FTTP.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Do they retain the copper wire to act as a support for the fibre, or
>>>>>>> does it have enough tensile strength to support itself? It's about 30
>>>>>>> metres from the pole to the house connection at the top of a gable-end
>>>>>>> wall.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My copper wire is completely separate from the fible - although they both
>>>>>> start from the same pole. The brackets on the hose are about 18" apart.
>>>>>
>>>>> Don't they have to run the fibre outside down the wall to wherever it
>>>>> will enter the house?
>>>>
>>>> If so, is there some form of wayleave or is the consent of the
>>>> property owners needed? I live in a flat. Can I be compelled to have
>>>> someone else's cable running down my outside wall? I will object
>>>> until the neighbours agree to essential repairs.
>>>
>>> If your are a leaseholder that would usually be a matter for the freeholder.
>>
>> I live in Scotland so there is no freeholder. I am wondering if some
>> form of wayleave exists. Otherwise, I assume consent will be needed.
>
>I'm an ignoramus on tenements but thought there were often cable ducts
>or conduits or the like which were common property ("pertinents"?). If
>that's where current phones are run then I'd expect the fibre to be
>pulled through them.

The telephone lines run from a telegraph pole at the bottom of the
garden to each individual flat. City Fibre seem to be planning to
enter at the front. The conduits are for the electricity supply.
Would it be possible to run fibre optic cable inside these -
presumably with the consent of Scottish Power Energy Networks? This
would certainly make for a neat job.

On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 18:49:07 +0000, David Woolley
<david@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid> wrote:

>
>On 08/12/2022 16:36, Scott wrote:
>> If so, is there some form of wayleave or is the consent of the
>> property owners needed? I live in a flat. Can I be compelled to have
>> someone else's cable running down my outside wall?
>
>You'd have to look at your lease. In the case of my lease, the outside
>of the walls belongs to the freeholder, but there is also a provision
>giving a right to run cables, pipes, etc., through other flats.

No lease. I live in Scotland. I suppose I need to check the title
deeds to see if person A has the right to install 'conductors' in the
common close.
>
>"at all reasonable times during the said term on notice to permit the
>Lessor and its lessees
>with workmen and others to enter into and upon the Demised Premises or
>any part thereof for the purpose of repairing any adjoining or
>contiguous premises and for the purpose of making repairing maintaining
>rebuilding cleansing lighting and keeping in order and good condition
>all water pipes sewers drains watercourses electric wires and cables gas
>pipes gutters party structures or other conveniences belonging to
>serving or used for the same and
>also for the purpose of laying down maintaining repairing and testing
>water pipes sewers drains watercourses electric wires and cables and gas
>pipes and for similar purposes the Lessor or its lessees (as the case
>may be) making good all damage occasioned thereby to the Demised Premises"
>
>Openreach are also a "statutory provider", which gives them some rights
>over other's land, although I'm not sure if they apply in this case.

Yes, but it's City Fibre. Is it a statutory provider?

On 08/12/2022 18:34, Scott wrote:
> On Thu, 08 Dec 2022 18:25:31 +0000, Roderick Stewart
> <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 15:26:07 +0000, Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Do they retain the copper wire to act as a support for the fibre, or
>>> does it have enough tensile strength to support itself? It's about 30
>>> metres from the pole to the house connection at the top of a gable-end wall.
>> In my case, the copper cable from a pole across the road was removed
>> and replaced with the fibre. No point in keeping both as the copper
>> wouldn't be used and it would just add to the weight. They'll be doing
>> this to lots of installations so I guess the fibre must be designed
>> for the same conditions as the copper cable it replaces. It looks
>> pretty tough to me.
>>
> I thought the scrap value of all the copper was the real driver.
You'd hope that the fact the provision of an xDSL signal over a crappy
old bit of twisted pair copper up to 7 or 8 miles long, dragged through
damp or flooded chambers, and or joined in junction boxes up poles with
the cover flapping in the wind, is a total and utter bodge, and is a
bloody miracle it (sort of) works(most of the time) is the driver, but hey !

Having 'glass' end to end into your home future proofs all of us in
here, and our grandchildren.

"MB" <MB@nospam.net> wrote in message news:tmtc92$tvns$1@dont-email.me...
> On 08/12/2022 18:19, Alexander wrote:
>> Several different encryption schemes are suppored on DVB-T and T2,
>> including ones that are much more robust than the one used by ONDigital.
>>
>> Every 'Freeview' TV has a card slot on the rear (called a 'Common
>> Interface'), to facilitate access to encrypted services.
>
>
>
> I think more accurately, there was provision for a card but I am fairly
> sure it is not fitted in mine. I would think the chances of getting one
> fitted in a TV bought around the time of DSO is just about zero.
>
> I don't think my TV has even had any softwate updates for years.

The vast majority have it, including ones from pre-DSO days, such as my
old 2006 LG set. Only exceptions are generally very small sets, designed
for caravans, cars etc.

But where the slot is absent, a very inexpensive set top box could be
used instead.

A software update wouldn't necessarily be required. The 'card' (known as
a CAM) contains the necessary hardware to handle whatever encryption
scheme is chosen by the broadcaster.

The facility has already been used on Freeview in the past, for
'Setanta Sports' and its successors.