NY wrote:

> There was no steel tensile support - unless the "copper" wires were really steel
> plated with copper.

"Ding!"

On 09/12/2022 09:50, Roderick Stewart wrote:
> On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 18:09:52 +0000, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>
>> On 08/12/2022 11:25, Woody wrote:
>>> No reader should forget that (supposedly) by the end of 2025 <everyone>
>>> should have FTTP so that BT can remove all of the copper.
>>

They don't need to remove all the copper. BT VOIP works fine with FTTC
so they can remove the copper to the exchange and retain the copper drop
wires.

>>
>>
>> I think that is very optimistic (or is pessimistic!).
>>
>
> Hmm.. Let's see... when was the telephone invented? And by the 1950s,
> how many other people did we know who actually had one? (We had a
> doctor in the family so may have been on some priority list). It
> wasn't usual just to ask for phone numbers then as we do now; the
> usual first question was "Are you on the phone?" because you couldn't
> assume everybody even had one.
>
> Landline phones are everywhere today, but how many decades did it take
> to get here? Yes I tend to agree that hoping to replace the whole
> system in two or three years might be a tad ambitious. I wonder if
> politicians know how to do sums?
>
> Rod.

Dave

On 09/12/2022 09:14, alan_m wrote:
> These days we have 200+ channels available with very little new
> worthwhile content. Everything is repeated so often.

The problem is that the library from which repeats channels choose is
very small: they repeat the same things over and over, instead of
showing a wider variety of different programmes less often. There are a
lot of good programmes from the 1970s-90s - especially the long 13- or
26-part dramatisations of classic novels - which could be repeated, but
instead we get the fairly modern programmes time and again.

On Fri, 9 Dec 2022 11:07:40 +0000, Mark Carver
<mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>On 09/12/2022 10:13, alan_m wrote:
>> On 08/12/2022 17:02, JNugent wrote:
>>
>>> And as extra TV channels became available (principally ITV and BBC2,
>>> but also Channel 5*), potential viewers had to buy new equipment, if
>>> not a completely new set.
>>
>> Didn't most people rent from companies such as radio rentals?  It was
>> still the era of people expecting TVs to break down on a regular basis.
>>
>True, but they still needed to buy a UHF (or as they were called in the
>60s, a BBC 2) aerial

I thought the rental company would install this as part of the rental
agreement in the same way that Sky install the dish. I doubt if there
are many old enough to remember though.

On Fri, 9 Dec 2022 11:12:15 +0000, David Woolley
<david@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid> wrote:

>On 09/12/2022 09:55, Scott wrote:
>> As this is an adopted road, I assume the council
>> can grant consent to dig up the pavements.
>
>Adopted roads have to be public highways, and I seem to remember that it
>is for those that statutory undertakers get automatic wayleaves.

Apologies, I knew BT Openreach is a statutory undertaker but I did not
realise that City Fibre is also:
https://www.thirteengroup.co.uk/uploaded/thirteen/files/CityFibre%20FAQs%20website.pdf

On 09/12/2022 09:52, alan_m wrote:
> On 08/12/2022 16:45, charles wrote:
>
>> What has being "in their 80s" have to do with anything. I'm in my 80s.
>>
>
>
> Well said.
> Age has little to do with technical competence.  Until fairly recently
> my 92 year old mother was well able to cope with modern technology. It's
> rapidly failing eyesight that is now the problem but recently it took
> her about 5 minutes to learn how to use her new talking microwave oven.
> However, it only has 3 buttons and a rotary knob.

Why does it need to talk? Mine has two buttons, power and time; the
power is always set to maximum and the time knob has a pointer which I
could feel if I couldn't see it. And a recessed button to release the door.

--
Max Demian

On 09/12/2022 10:09, alan_m wrote:
> On 08/12/2022 15:22, NY wrote:
>> On 08/12/2022 14:28, charles wrote:
>>> In article <b3o3phpdv023rikr8sf1oilgij9p0vtpo7@4ax.com>,
>>>     Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> No, my point was that people without broadband may have invested in a
>>>> large screen television.  Without wishing to be ageist in any way, I
>>>> believe there are some pensioners who don't even have a computer in
>>>> their home.
>>>
>>> The large screen tv almost certainly has an internet connection, though.
>>
>> There is the added problem that the mechanism (eg underlying protocols)
>> may change over time, leading to older internet-capable TVs not being
>> able to receive programmes from some catchup sites. I believe there have
>> already been cases, though since they don't affect platforms I use, I've
>> not noted any examples.
>
> Although possibly not related to freeview/freesat banded boxes but the
> changes the broadcaters have made to catch-up services over the past few
> years have rendered third party application/software useless.
>
>
>> If internet became the only means of "broadcasting", there would need to
>> be a *much* greater commitment to backward compatibility so a TV that
>> could once receive (for example) iPlayer can always receive it, even if
>> new features are added. But then that goes hand-in-hand with the policy
>> (which is becoming rarer these days) of "only ever add features; never
>> remove legacy features" which applies to anything computer-related such
>> as versions of Windows or features in application programs.
>
> Haven't Panasonic had lots of problem with catch-up ceasing to work on
> some of their TVs in the past 5 years.

Not to my knowledge, and I've had Panny TVs with catch-up for around 6
years. There are a few reports on the web which refer more to issues
with their digital recorders.

--

Jeff

On Thursday, 8 December 2022 at 16:05:48 UTC, Woody wrote:
> On Thu 08/12/2022 15:20, Scott wrote:
> > On Thu, 08 Dec 2022 14:28:34 +0000 (GMT), charles
> > <cha...@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> In article <b3o3phpdv023rikr8...@4ax.com>,
> >> Scott <newsg...@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> >>> On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 11:48:42 +0000, Mark Carver
> >>> <mark....@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >>
> >>>> based BBC could do the same.
> >>>>>> Maybe not, but I would reckon a majority now have some equipment that can watch video over the internet - PC, laptop, mobile phone, tablet, Smart TV...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> A prospect that I suspect would not impress anyone who has invested in
> >>>>> a large-screen television.
> >>>> BBC iplayer HD streams are every bit as good as 'broadcast' HD, and UHD
> >>>> streams are the only source of UHD content from the BBC (and it'll
> >>>> probably remain so)
> >>
> >>> No, my point was that people without broadband may have invested in a
> >>> large screen television. Without wishing to be ageist in any way, I
> >>> believe there are some pensioners who don't even have a computer in
> >>> their home.
> >>
> >> The large screnn tv almost certainly has an internet connection, though.
> >
> > Almost certainly. All pensioners have high speed broadband into the
> > home, especially those on the BT Basic package.
> NOT.

Can do https://www.bt.com/broadband/home-essentials

On 09/12/2022 12:50, Scott wrote:
> On Fri, 9 Dec 2022 11:07:40 +0000, Mark Carver
> <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 09/12/2022 10:13, alan_m wrote:
>>> On 08/12/2022 17:02, JNugent wrote:
>>>
>>>> And as extra TV channels became available (principally ITV and BBC2,
>>>> but also Channel 5*), potential viewers had to buy new equipment, if
>>>> not a completely new set.
>>> Didn't most people rent from companies such as radio rentals?  It was
>>> still the era of people expecting TVs to break down on a regular basis.
>>>
>> True, but they still needed to buy a UHF (or as they were called in the
>> 60s, a BBC 2) aerial
> I thought the rental company would install this as part of the rental
> agreement in the same way that Sky install the dish. I doubt if there
> are many old enough to remember though.
I think you're right actually, I think Bill Wright might have mentioned
he did that for DER ?

On 09/12/2022 15:49, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
> On Thursday, 8 December 2022 at 16:05:48 UTC, Woody wrote:
>> On Thu 08/12/2022 15:20, Scott wrote:
>>> On Thu, 08 Dec 2022 14:28:34 +0000 (GMT), charles

>>> Almost certainly. All pensioners have high speed broadband into the
>>> home, especially those on the BT Basic package.
>> NOT.
>
> Can do https://www.bt.com/broadband/home-essentials

Typical of BT to omit the most *essential* point about home-essentials
from that page - the PRICE! In fact, DDG only found a BT pdf where the
price was stated, and that was in the middle of the document; is it
upfront on an ordinary BT webpage somewhere? I had to use another
website to find the price - £15 a month. I wonder how many of those who
qualify for home-essentials (on pension benefits, jobseeker's allowance,
etc), would be able to find the extra £180 a year.

--

Jeff

"Roderick Stewart" <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message news:jos5phpkdblak8oe1n7j99nt9rleue4911@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 18:19:18 -0000, "Alexander" <none@nowhere.fr>
> wrote:
>
>>Every 'Freeview' TV has a card slot on the rear (called a 'Common
>>Interface'), to facilitate access to encrypted services.
>
> I don't think mine has, but in any case I've never used it as a
> receiver and don't even have an aerial plugged into it, only a single
> HDMI cable from a selector switch.
>
> A couple of the devices plugged into the selector are fairly old
> Freeview recorders that definitely don't have slots for any extra
> circuitry, unless you count an SD card slot and a USB port.

Your TV will almost certainly have the CI card slot.
You are correct to say that Freeview set-top-boxes (including recorders)
don't have it. But if the BBC were to go subscription, these would
continue to receive / record the free-to-air services as normal,
including any FTA 'BBC Basic' service.

>
> I've also got a VHS machine that has two SCART sockets, only one of
> which appears to be an output. I think the other SCART is for an
> adaptor of some sort, though I never saw one. Do you think I could get
> a decryption adaptor for that?

From memory the SCART interface was originally developed (by the French)
for that very purpose. They used an encrypted analogue terrestrial
signal as a subscription film channel I think?

That's basically why you could get a composite output of a TV's internal
tuner via the SCART - this output continued when the SCART was selected
as the input source, so a scrambled picture could be decoded and then
'looped back' for viewing on the screen. Same with the audio.

I have a vague memory of seeing encrypted content in the UK, late at
night on BBC2, some time in the 90s. Looked similar to Videocrypt.
Can't remember what content it was being used for though.

> In any case I've more or less given up with off-air broadcasts

As have I, but I was making a general point about the lies they're using
to 'justify' continuation of the BBC's forced-funding model.
I wasn't trying to sell you a TV subscription!

You can only read the article if you subscribe.
Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"SH" <i.love@spam.com> wrote in message news:tmr430$l33f$1@dont-email.me...
> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/12/07/bbc-must-ready-end-terrestrial-tv-broadcasts-decade-says-tim/
>
> I assume this applies to Freeview only so I assume Freesat will still be
> going for those who have boradband that is not viable for TV streaming or
> even no broadband at all.
>

It smacks of the same old story we had about turning off fm in favour of DAB
etc. I do hope if they actually want to do this, free broadband will be in
everyone's home then, or at least as free as a once only aerial rigging
costs at any rate.

Eggs in one basket comes to mind here, You would need to have at least two
feeds of major channels or any emergency, like a power cut would lever
everyone with no contact from gov.

Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Rink" <rink.hof.haalditmaarweg@planet.nl> wrote in message
news:tmr6i3$lvqk$1@dont-email.me...
> Op 7-12-2022 om 23:56 schreef Java Jive:
>> On 07/12/2022 22:28, SH wrote:
>>> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/12/07/bbc-must-ready-end-terrestrial-tv-broadcasts-decade-says-tim/
>>>
>>> I assume this applies to Freeview only so I assume Freesat will still be
>>> going for those who have boradband that is not viable for TV streaming
>>> or even no broadband at all.
>>
>> Also:
>>
>> BBC preparing to go online-only over next decade, says director general
>> https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/dec/07/bbc-will-go-online-only-by-2030s-says-director-general
>
>
> Commercial TV and Radio would love that !
>
> Some rich broadcast man thinks that everybody can do the same as he can.
>
> Investigations resulted in the fact that about one million people in The
> Netherlands never has been on internet, that's about 4% of all Dutch
> people.
> And a lot of the people, who has been on internet does not know anything
> about it.
>
> Rink

In message <tn1egi$1k4lb$1@dont-email.me>, Brian Gaff
<brian1gaff@gmail.com> writes
>You can only read the article if you subscribe.
> Brian
>
On this occasion, I can (browser Thunderbird).
However, when I can't, I find that switching to Reader View normally
lets me read articles that are hidden behind a pay or subscribe wall.
--
Ian

Brian Gaff wrote:

> You can only read the article if you subscribe.

standard technique for the telegraph is either ti disable javascript, or go via
a proxy to peep over the paywall

<https://12ft.io/proxy?&q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraph.co.uk%2Fbusiness%2F2022%2F12%2F07%2Fbbc-must-ready-end-terrestrial-tv-broadcasts-decade-says-tim>

On 10/12/2022 08:03, Brian Gaff wrote:
> You can only read the article if you subscribe.

The Daily Telegraph appears to be available through Pressreader and
Newsbank?

On 09/12/2022 10:13, alan_m wrote:
> On 08/12/2022 17:02, JNugent wrote:
>
>> And as extra TV channels became available (principally ITV and BBC2,
>> but also Channel 5*), potential viewers had to buy new equipment, if
>> not a completely new set.
>
> Didn't most people rent from companies such as radio rentals?  It was
> still the era of people expecting TVs to break down on a regular basis.
>
>
>
Rental had about 60% market share for colour sets in the 80s.

Bill

On 09/12/2022 11:07, Mark Carver wrote:

>> Didn't most people rent from companies such as radio rentals?  It was
>> still the era of people expecting TVs to break down on a regular basis.
>>
>>
>>
> True, but they still needed to buy a UHF (or as they were called in the
> 60s, a BBC 2) aerial

Indeed they did. Jolly good thing too.

Bill

On 09/12/2022 12:50, Scott wrote:
> On Fri, 9 Dec 2022 11:07:40 +0000, Mark Carver
> <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 09/12/2022 10:13, alan_m wrote:
>>> On 08/12/2022 17:02, JNugent wrote:
>>>
>>>> And as extra TV channels became available (principally ITV and BBC2,
>>>> but also Channel 5*), potential viewers had to buy new equipment, if
>>>> not a completely new set.
>>>
>>> Didn't most people rent from companies such as radio rentals?  It was
>>> still the era of people expecting TVs to break down on a regular basis.
>>>
>> True, but they still needed to buy a UHF (or as they were called in the
>> 60s, a BBC 2) aerial
>
> I thought the rental company would install this as part of the rental
> agreement in the same way that Sky install the dish. I doubt if there
> are many old enough to remember though.
>
Most rental companies offered a fixed price aerial installation.

Bill

On 09/12/2022 16:05, Mark Carver wrote:
> On 09/12/2022 12:50, Scott wrote:
>> On Fri, 9 Dec 2022 11:07:40 +0000, Mark Carver
>> <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 09/12/2022 10:13, alan_m wrote:
>>>> On 08/12/2022 17:02, JNugent wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> And as extra TV channels became available (principally ITV and BBC2,
>>>>> but also Channel 5*), potential viewers had to buy new equipment, if
>>>>> not a completely new set.
>>>> Didn't most people rent from companies such as radio rentals?  It was
>>>> still the era of people expecting TVs to break down on a regular basis.
>>>>
>>> True, but they still needed to buy a UHF (or as they were called in the
>>> 60s, a BBC 2) aerial
>> I thought the rental company would install this as part of the rental
>> agreement in the same way that Sky install the dish.  I doubt if there
>> are many old enough to remember though.
> I think you're right actually, I think Bill Wright might have mentioned
> he did that for DER ?

Yes, and Radio Rentals and Vallences and Appollo (sic) and Colorvision
and Pickerings and Stringers and Adams and quite a few more!

Bill

On 09/12/2022 10:13, alan_m wrote:

>
> Didn't most people rent from companies such as radio rentals?  It was
> still the era of people expecting TVs to break down on a regular basis.
>
"Hello, I'm interested in buying one of these new-fangled colour
televisions."

"Ah yes sir, we have three models available. But first of all, do you
have a spare bedroom?"

"Well yes, but why?"

"For the engineer sir."

Bill

On 07/12/2022 22:56, Java Jive wrote:
> On 07/12/2022 22:28, SH wrote:
>> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/12/07/bbc-must-ready-end-terrestrial-tv-broadcasts-decade-says-tim/
>>
>> I assume this applies to Freeview only so I assume Freesat will still
>> be going for those who have  boradband that is not viable for TV
>> streaming or even no broadband at all.
>
> Also:
>
> BBC preparing to go online-only over next decade, says director general
> https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/dec/07/bbc-will-go-online-only-by-2030s-says-director-general
>

Much better.
No paywall at the Guardian.

--
Brian Gregory (in England).

On 11/12/2022 16:58, Brian Gregory wrote:
> Much better.
> No paywall at the Guardian.

Just begging messages.

On Sun, 11 Dec 2022 22:02:26 +0000, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:

>On 11/12/2022 16:58, Brian Gregory wrote:
>> Much better.
>> No paywall at the Guardian.
>
>
>Just begging messages.
>

and a compete newspaper.
--

Martin in Zuid Holland

On Mon 12/12/2022 12:25, Martin wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Dec 2022 22:02:26 +0000, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>
>> On 11/12/2022 16:58, Brian Gregory wrote:
>>> Much better.
>>> No paywall at the Guardian.
>>
>>
>> Just begging messages.
>>
>
> and a compete newspaper.

Its not called the Grauniad for nothing you know AND it is the only
newspaper - nearly 3000 copies of it - that is delivered to the BBC daily.

Says it all really?