Alexander wrote:

> Several different encryption schemes are suppored on DVB-T and T2,
>
> Every 'Freeview' TV has a card slot

"every"? I don't think so ...

"Andy Burns" <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote in message news:jvestvFigukU2@mid.individual.net...
> Alexander wrote:
>
>> Several different encryption schemes are suppored on DVB-T and T2,
>>
>> Every 'Freeview' TV has a card slot
>
> "every"? I don't think so ...

It was a mandatory requirement of the DVB standard until recently,
and in practice is still included on the latest models of TV.

Crux of the matter is:
DVB-T supports robust encryption, whether via the CI slot, or via a set
top box. The Gov and BBC are lying if they claim this isn't so.
Any excuse to maintain the BBC's forced funding model.

On 08/12/2022 18:34, Jeff Layman wrote:
>
> There's not an awful lot of choice as I live in a bungalow! It
> wouldn't bother me if they put the CSP near where the copper enters
> now or ran the fibre down an outside wall to where the current phone
> socket is inside the wall, and put the CSP there. The ONT would be
> inside on the lounge wall near to where my router/modem is now.
>
We live in a bungalow too. We refurbed it, (big time) three years ago.
As part of that the roof came off, and a new one went on (after 3 months
of rain). I reattached the phone line to the end gable fascia, and took
it straight into the loft space at that point, (where it drops down into
my technology cupboard).

I was rather hoping the fibre (which will be happening sometime between
next month, and 2040) can take the same route. However, I don't want the
CSP up there (and nor do Openreach) so I fear they will have to run a
big black fibre down the front of the house. Which I don't want, so in
advance of them coming I'm going to fix some 12x12mm ish trunking on the
inside lip of the uPVC fascia, and then down an outside-inside corner
where the porch sticks out. Hopefully they agree to use that. Holy grail
would be for them to agree to put the CSP in the loft, and follow my
copper route, someone in uk.broadband group managed to persuade
Openreach to do that, so there is a glimmer of hope.

Luck of the draw who you get on the day.....

In article <84d767d9-b5d2-464b-b1e3-dce4d72aed60n@googlegroups.com>, R.
Mark Clayton <notyalckram@gmail.com> scribeth thus
>On Thursday, 8 December 2022 at 13:09:24 UTC, Scott wrote:
>> On Thu, 08 Dec 2022 12:35:55 +0000, Roderick Stewart
>> <rj...@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> >On Thu, 08 Dec 2022 11:32:16 +0000, Scott
>> ><newsg...@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>> >
>> >>>> Of course the entire population isn't equipped for internet TV yet,
>> >>>> but then the entire population wasn't equipped for broadcasting itself
>> >>>> when that started. It spread gradually over many years, and an
>> >>>> internet based BBC could do the same.
>> >>>
>> >>>Maybe not, but I would reckon a majority now have some equipment that can
>watch video over the internet - PC, laptop, mobile phone, tablet, Smart TV...
>> >>>
>> >>A prospect that I suspect would not impress anyone who has invested in
>> >>a large-screen television.
>> >
>> >Why not? Practically anything you can watch on a computer you can also
>> >watch on a TV. They both have the same kind of input connections
>> >(HDMI) and will display whatever you care to plug into them.
>> >
>> Assuming broadband connection and IT capability, that is. Will the
>> BBC be providing free broadband, free router, installation, set up and
>> training for all citizens who require it? Otherwise, I can see this
>> being a vote-loser in an election.
>
>Like switching off 405 lines?
>
>Where I lived sixty years ago there was no trunk exchange in the small town, so
>six pairs of cables ran over the hills to somewhere else on poles. Most have
>gone now, but you can still see them in places with what is probably a PCM trunk
>slung between them https://goo.gl/maps/qJ21PwDn6QskVFdDA

Seems that none of the houses there have TV aerials that c i can see
of?.

Do they have some sort of cable TV system?...
--
Tony Sayer

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.

Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.

On 08/12/2022 15:26, Jeff Layman wrote:
> Do they retain the copper wire to act as a support for the fibre, or
> does it have enough tensile strength to support itself? It's about 30
> metres from the pole to the house connection at the top of a gable-end
> wall.

The tensile strength of "copper" drop wires is from steel, not copper.
<https://telecomgreen.co.uk/home-phone-repair/the-secret-life-of-bt-dropwire-telephone-cable/>

Fibre optic cable also doesn't get its tensile strength from the fibre,
although I haven't found the exact specification used by BT.

On 09/12/2022 00:46, David Woolley wrote:
> On 08/12/2022 15:26, Jeff Layman wrote:
>> Do they retain the copper wire to act as a support for the fibre, or
>> does it have enough tensile strength to support itself? It's about 30
>> metres from the pole to the house connection at the top of a gable-end
>> wall.
>
> The tensile strength of "copper" drop wires is from steel, not copper.
> <https://telecomgreen.co.uk/home-phone-repair/the-secret-life-of-bt-dropwire-telephone-cable/>
>
> Fibre optic cable also doesn't get its tensile strength from the fibre,
> although I haven't found the exact specification used by BT.

When did the spec for "copper" drop wire change? Back in the 1970s my
parents' phone line was very crackly and the GPO engineer changed the
drop cable from the house to the pole - and he gave me the old cable. It
was just two copper cores, each in separate insulation that was bonded
side by side in a figure of 8. There was no steel tensile support -
unless the "copper" wires were really steel plated with copper.

tony sayer wrote:

> Seems that none of the houses there have TV aerials that c i can see
> of?.

I see a few aerials (and a few dishes) on the downhill sides of the houses ...

In article <-rednZJfxvt7cg_-nZ2dnZfqnPqdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>,
NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:

> When did the spec for "copper" drop wire change? Back in the 1970s
> my parents' phone line was very crackly and the GPO engineer
> changed the drop cable from the house to the pole - and he gave me
> the old cable. It was just two copper cores, each in separate
> insulation that was bonded side by side in a figure of 8. There
> was no steel tensile support - unless the "copper" wires were
> really steel plated with copper.

I think you are referring to drop wire no.3. This was grey and figure
of 8 and appeared to be copper but it wasn't, it was largely steel
with (I think) a copper coating. You could easily tell because the
cable was very springy and didn't behave like copper at all.

Figure of 8 twin drop wires gave poor broadband performance. Twisted
cables much better.

Bob.

On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 18:19:18 -0000, "Alexander" <none@nowhere.fr>
wrote:

>Every 'Freeview' TV has a card slot on the rear (called a 'Common
>Interface'), to facilitate access to encrypted services.

I don't think mine has, but in any case I've never used it as a
receiver and don't even have an aerial plugged into it, only a single
HDMI cable from a selector switch.

A couple of the devices plugged into the selector are fairly old
Freeview recorders that definitely don't have slots for any extra
circuitry, unless you count an SD card slot and a USB port.

I've also got a VHS machine that has two SCART sockets, only one of
which appears to be an output. I think the other SCART is for an
adaptor of some sort, though I never saw one. Do you think I could get
a decryption adaptor for that?

In any case I've more or less given up with off-air broadcasts as the
internet offers thousands more sources of everything with no
interference or ghosting or other reception issues. Much of it is
free, and I can choose which of the rest is worth paying for. It's
more like a proper marketplace in other words, and I don't need to pay
a licence to one supplier to be allowed to use all the others.

Rod.

On Thu, 08 Dec 2022 19:20:40 +0000, Scott
<newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

>>> I live in Scotland so there is no freeholder. I am wondering if some
>>> form of wayleave exists. Otherwise, I assume consent will be needed.
>>[...]
>The telephone lines run from a telegraph pole at the bottom of the
>garden to each individual flat.

I don't think you need anyone's consent to run a cable overhead,
especially if it replaces one that's already present.

I live in an unadopted private road, and couldn't have Virginmedia's
cable service even if I wanted it, because apparently that would
require *every* householder in the road to sign a wayleave document to
give them permission to dig up the road for *any* household to have a
cable installed. That's what I was told anyway. I think it's because
technically the road belongs jointly to all of us.

But most of the houses have telephone cables slung from a pole, and my
copper cable was replaced with a fibre "cable" with no problems at
all. Maybe some of the others have been replaced too, but since they
look exactly the same from ground level I couldn't say.

Rod.

On 08/12/2022 10:45, Mark Carver wrote:

>
> I don't understand this obsession with wanting to keep TV recordings,
> I've got a hard drive still full of stuff I haven't watched once yet.

I know someone with more DVDs than a rental shop. Most watched once and
never to see the light of day ever again.

These days we have 200+ channels available with very little new
worthwhile content. Everything is repeated so often.

The oldest of my recordings on my PVRs disk is around 6 weeks and I
don't archive anything. Once a recording is watched it's deleted as is
anything I've recorded because it MAY have been interesting but I've
never bothered to watch. I tend to record a series but often discover
that the first episode is not to my liking and I delete the rest unwatched.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Fri, 9 Dec 2022 00:46:04 +0000, David Woolley
<david@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid> wrote:

>On 08/12/2022 15:26, Jeff Layman wrote:
>> Do they retain the copper wire to act as a support for the fibre, or
>> does it have enough tensile strength to support itself? It's about 30
>> metres from the pole to the house connection at the top of a gable-end
>> wall.
>
>The tensile strength of "copper" drop wires is from steel, not copper.
><https://telecomgreen.co.uk/home-phone-repair/the-secret-life-of-bt-dropwire-telephone-cable/>
>
>Fibre optic cable also doesn't get its tensile strength from the fibre,
>although I haven't found the exact specification used by BT.

Indeed. I kept a little piece of the scrap fibre "cable" as a souvenir
and to get a close look at it. It has a figure of eight cross section,
the two thick circular parts being just for support, the optical fibre
itself being a tiny thread running between them, so thin as not to
contribute to the figure of eight shape at all. I don't know what the
support cords are made of, but it doesn't seem to be metal.

The short length of it that I have is straight and so rigid that it's
possible to hold it down so it projects over the edge of the desk and
make sounds by twanging it like a school ruler - remember doing that?
It came off a fairly large diameter drum, but seems to "want" to be
straight. It's easy to see why they have to watch the bend radius when
installing it. The interior fibre is thinner and much more flexible,
but they only use shorter lengths of that and it doesn't have to
survive being thrashed about by the wind as the exterior stuff does.

Rod.

On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 18:09:52 +0000, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:

>On 08/12/2022 11:25, Woody wrote:
>> No reader should forget that (supposedly) by the end of 2025 <everyone>
>> should have FTTP so that BT can remove all of the copper.
>
>
>
>I think that is very optimistic (or is pessimistic!).
>

Hmm.. Let's see... when was the telephone invented? And by the 1950s,
how many other people did we know who actually had one? (We had a
doctor in the family so may have been on some priority list). It
wasn't usual just to ask for phone numbers then as we do now; the
usual first question was "Are you on the phone?" because you couldn't
assume everybody even had one.

Landline phones are everywhere today, but how many decades did it take
to get here? Yes I tend to agree that hoping to replace the whole
system in two or three years might be a tad ambitious. I wonder if
politicians know how to do sums?

Rod.

On 08/12/2022 16:45, charles wrote:

> What has being "in their 80s" have to do with anything. I'm in my 80s.
>

Well said.
Age has little to do with technical competence. Until fairly recently
my 92 year old mother was well able to cope with modern technology. It's
rapidly failing eyesight that is now the problem but recently it took
her about 5 minutes to learn how to use her new talking microwave oven.
However, it only has 3 buttons and a rotary knob.

In the past year the biggest problem she has had is with digital
telephone switch over and that's not down to her not understanding but
Virgin changing her over and her paid for emergency service no longer
working. This is the panic button type service that auto-dials a 24/365
monitoring service.

Until the day of switch-over the installed equipment had been working
without problems for 5+ years. It took 4 Virgin visits for them not to
fix the problem.

In the end a solution was found by paying more money to get alternative
equipment installed from the monitoring company.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 08/12/2022 14:28, charles wrote:

>
> The large screnn tv almost certainly has an internet connection, though.
>

It hasn't if you are not signed up to an ISP.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Fri, 09 Dec 2022 09:05:25 +0000, Roderick Stewart
<rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

>On Thu, 08 Dec 2022 19:20:40 +0000, Scott
><newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>>> I live in Scotland so there is no freeholder. I am wondering if some
>>>> form of wayleave exists. Otherwise, I assume consent will be needed.
>>>[...]
>>The telephone lines run from a telegraph pole at the bottom of the
>>garden to each individual flat.
>
>I don't think you need anyone's consent to run a cable overhead,
>especially if it replaces one that's already present.

This seems to be the case - especially when Openreach are replacing
existing cabling.
>
>I live in an unadopted private road, and couldn't have Virginmedia's
>cable service even if I wanted it, because apparently that would
>require *every* householder in the road to sign a wayleave document to
>give them permission to dig up the road for *any* household to have a
>cable installed. That's what I was told anyway. I think it's because
>technically the road belongs jointly to all of us.

This is more akin to our situation where City Fibre is installing its
cables at the front. As this is an adopted road, I assume the council
can grant consent to dig up the pavements. I am wondering about any
cabling in our front garden and common parts of the tenement - consent
of one, consent of a majority or statutory wayleave. In Scotland.
>
>But most of the houses have telephone cables slung from a pole, and my
>copper cable was replaced with a fibre "cable" with no problems at
>all. Maybe some of the others have been replaced too, but since they
>look exactly the same from ground level I couldn't say.
>
I am sure Openreach is on safe ground (Oh no it isn't) using existing
telegraph poles. The phone line enters my bathroom with no power
points but that is a story for another day.

On 08/12/2022 15:20, Scott wrote:

> Almost certainly. All pensioners have high speed broadband into the
> home, especially those on the BT Basic package.

Not all pensioners use BT.
Not all pensioners subscribe to a broadband service.
Some pensioners may have already ditched a land line in favour of a mobile

In many parts of the country broadband is a joke with regards speed,
especially in some rural areas.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 08/12/2022 15:22, NY wrote:
> On 08/12/2022 14:28, charles wrote:
>> In article <b3o3phpdv023rikr8sf1oilgij9p0vtpo7@4ax.com>,
>>     Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>> No, my point was that people without broadband may have invested in a
>>> large screen television.  Without wishing to be ageist in any way, I
>>> believe there are some pensioners who don't even have a computer in
>>> their home.
>>
>> The large screen tv almost certainly has an internet connection, though.
>
> There is the added problem that the mechanism (eg underlying protocols)
> may change over time, leading to older internet-capable TVs not being
> able to receive programmes from some catchup sites. I believe there have
> already been cases, though since they don't affect platforms I use, I've
> not noted any examples.

Although possibly not related to freeview/freesat banded boxes but the
changes the broadcaters have made to catch-up services over the past few
years have rendered third party application/software useless.

> If internet became the only means of "broadcasting", there would need to
> be a *much* greater commitment to backward compatibility so a TV that
> could once receive (for example) iPlayer can always receive it, even if
> new features are added. But then that goes hand-in-hand with the policy
> (which is becoming rarer these days) of "only ever add features; never
> remove legacy features" which applies to anything computer-related such
> as versions of Windows or features in application programs.

Haven't Panasonic had lots of problem with catch-up ceasing to work on
some of their TVs in the past 5 years.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 08/12/2022 17:02, JNugent wrote:

> And as extra TV channels became available (principally ITV and BBC2, but
> also Channel 5*), potential viewers had to buy new equipment, if not a
> completely new set.

Didn't most people rent from companies such as radio rentals? It was
still the era of people expecting TVs to break down on a regular basis.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 08/12/2022 15:33, Mark Carver wrote:
> On 08/12/2022 15:25, Richard Tobin wrote:
>> In article <tmr5mt$lr47$1@dont-email.me>,
>> Java Jive  <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
>>> BBC preparing to go online-only over next decade, says director general
>> At which point it will be impossible to watch any program without
>> the broadcaster knowing that you have.
>>
> They might be in for a shock when it comes to some shows !

and when they watch them.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 09/12/2022 08:44, Bob Latham wrote:
> In article <-rednZJfxvt7cg_-nZ2dnZfqnPqdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>,
> NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>> When did the spec for "copper" drop wire change? Back in the 1970s
>> my parents' phone line was very crackly and the GPO engineer
>> changed the drop cable from the house to the pole - and he gave me
>> the old cable. It was just two copper cores, each in separate
>> insulation that was bonded side by side in a figure of 8. There
>> was no steel tensile support - unless the "copper" wires were
>> really steel plated with copper.
> I think you are referring to drop wire no.3. This was grey and figure
> of 8 and appeared to be copper but it wasn't, it was largely steel
> with (I think) a copper coating. You could easily tell because the
> cable was very springy and didn't behave like copper at all.
>
> Figure of 8 twin drop wires gave poor broadband performance. Twisted
> cables much better.
>
Yes, my parents had that fig of 8 cable from when their phone line was
installed in the late 60s.
About 10 years ago, after a line break upstream, Openreach changed the
cable to twisted pair as part of that corrective work.
It's still the old Fig of 8 from where the line hits the roof, to the
master socket. Router shows maximum obtainable speed of over 70 Mb/s, so
not too much to worry about

On 09/12/2022 10:13, alan_m wrote:
> On 08/12/2022 17:02, JNugent wrote:
>
>> And as extra TV channels became available (principally ITV and BBC2,
>> but also Channel 5*), potential viewers had to buy new equipment, if
>> not a completely new set.
>
> Didn't most people rent from companies such as radio rentals?  It was
> still the era of people expecting TVs to break down on a regular basis.
>
>
>
True, but they still needed to buy a UHF (or as they were called in the
60s, a BBC 2) aerial

On 09/12/2022 09:55, Scott wrote:
> As this is an adopted road, I assume the council
> can grant consent to dig up the pavements.

Adopted roads have to be public highways, and I seem to remember that it
is for those that statutory undertakers get automatic wayleaves.

On Fri, 9 Dec 2022 10:01:36 +0000, alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk>
wrote:

>On 08/12/2022 15:20, Scott wrote:
>
>> Almost certainly. All pensioners have high speed broadband into the
>> home, especially those on the BT Basic package.
>
>Not all pensioners use BT.
>Not all pensioners subscribe to a broadband service.
>Some pensioners may have already ditched a land line in favour of a mobile
>
>In many parts of the country broadband is a joke with regards speed,
>especially in some rural areas.

Indeed, and this is of course the point I was making in my post (and
apparently overlooked by Charles).

On Fri, 9 Dec 2022 10:13:51 +0000, alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk>
wrote:

>On 08/12/2022 17:02, JNugent wrote:
>
>> And as extra TV channels became available (principally ITV and BBC2, but
>> also Channel 5*), potential viewers had to buy new equipment, if not a
>> completely new set.
>
>Didn't most people rent from companies such as radio rentals? It was
>still the era of people expecting TVs to break down on a regular basis.

And Rediffusion, which I thought was a fabulous name for the service
they provided.