On 12/12/2022 15:55, Ian Jackson wrote:
> In circa 1976 I bought a Sony 18" colour TV, on the basis Sony sets had
> a fantastic reputation for quality and reliability. It broke down three
> times in the first three months (the first time after three weeks, when
> a 1A fuse feeding the CRT heater went O/C). It took the dealer at least
> two weeks to fix it).
>
> As for the other two times, I managed to fix it myself (as I had access
> to the full workshop manual, and the faults were pretty obvious).
>
> I later learned that it might have been one of the first to be assembled
> in Wales, and not in Japan - and it was said that those-in-the-know
> sometimes specified that what they were buying should be 100% Japanese.

I was working for a Sony dealer at the time. The Welsh sets were a
disaster. They did a lot of damage to Sony's reputation in the trade.

Bill

On 13/12/2022 05:24 pm, Max Demian wrote:
> On 13/12/2022 12:25, JNugent wrote:
>> On 12/12/2022 02:31 pm, Max Demian wrote:
>>> On 11/12/2022 15:16, William Wright wrote:
>>>> On 09/12/2022 10:13, alan_m wrote:
>>>>> On 08/12/2022 17:02, JNugent wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> And as extra TV channels became available (principally ITV and
>>>>>> BBC2, but also Channel 5*), potential viewers had to buy new
>>>>>> equipment, if not a completely new set.
>>>>>
>>>>> Didn't most people rent from companies such as radio rentals?  It
>>>>> was still the era of people expecting TVs to break down on a
>>>>> regular basis.
>>>
>>>> Rental had about 60% market share for colour sets in the 80s.
>>>
>>> That must have been a follow-on from earlier unreliable sets. I
>>> bought an 18" Sony CTV in 1978 and it worked without a fail until 1996.
>>
>> I never had a colour set until 1979 (rented), but my observational
>> experience before that was that they were decidedly flakey.
>>
>> My first bought colour set arrived in 1982. It worked well. I can't
>> remember when we got rid of it. Perhaps it went into a bedroom.
>
> This one was available in the UK in the early 70s and was very highly
> thought of:
> https://collection.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/objects/co8066774/sony-trinitron-colour-television-1969-1970-television-receiver

In the mid-80s, I saw a shop which had a job lot of those, selling them
for about £40 each. They had previously been supplied to a hotel chain
for use in guest bedrooms.

On Tue 13/12/2022 18:17, JNugent wrote:
> On 13/12/2022 05:24 pm, Max Demian wrote:
>> On 13/12/2022 12:25, JNugent wrote:
>>> On 12/12/2022 02:31 pm, Max Demian wrote:
>>>> On 11/12/2022 15:16, William Wright wrote:
>>>>> On 09/12/2022 10:13, alan_m wrote:
>>>>>> On 08/12/2022 17:02, JNugent wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And as extra TV channels became available (principally ITV and
>>>>>>> BBC2, but also Channel 5*), potential viewers had to buy new
>>>>>>> equipment, if not a completely new set.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Didn't most people rent from companies such as radio rentals?  It
>>>>>> was still the era of people expecting TVs to break down on a
>>>>>> regular basis.
>>>>
>>>>> Rental had about 60% market share for colour sets in the 80s.
>>>>
>>>> That must have been a follow-on from earlier unreliable sets. I
>>>> bought an 18" Sony CTV in 1978 and it worked without a fail until 1996.
>>>
>>> I never had a colour set until 1979 (rented), but my observational
>>> experience before that was that they were decidedly flakey.
>>>
>>> My first bought colour set arrived in 1982. It worked well. I can't
>>> remember when we got rid of it. Perhaps it went into a bedroom.
>>
>> This one was available in the UK in the early 70s and was very highly
>> thought of:
>> https://collection.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/objects/co8066774/sony-trinitron-colour-television-1969-1970-television-receiver
>
> In the mid-80s, I saw a shop which had a job lot of those, selling them
> for about £40 each. They had previously been supplied to a hotel chain
> for use in guest bedrooms.

Auntie used to use them as monitors in their OB scanners. Never seen a
picture like it.

On 13/12/2022 17:36, William Wright wrote:
> On 13/12/2022 12:19, JNugent wrote:

>> Rental of aerials must have been rare.
>
> I never came across it, although some aerials were boughtg on HP.
Sky would put dishes on any house whose owners subscribed to the
service. Who paid for them, and who did they belong to if the subscriber
cancelled?

--
Max Demian

On 13/12/2022 17:50, William Wright wrote:
> On 12/12/2022 15:55, Ian Jackson wrote:

>> In circa 1976 I bought a Sony 18" colour TV, on the basis Sony sets
>> had a fantastic reputation for quality and reliability. It broke down
>> three times in the first three months (the first time after three
>> weeks, when a 1A fuse feeding the CRT heater went O/C). It took the
>> dealer at least two weeks to fix it).
>>
>> As for the other two times, I managed to fix it myself (as I had
>> access to the full workshop manual, and the faults were pretty obvious).
>>
>> I later learned that it might have been one of the first to be
>> assembled in Wales, and not in Japan - and it was said that
>> those-in-the-know sometimes specified that what they were buying
>> should be 100% Japanese.
>
> I was working for a Sony dealer at the time. The Welsh sets were a
> disaster. They did a lot of damage to Sony's reputation in the trade.

Too busy thinking about their sheep and falling asleep.

--
Max Demian

On 14/12/2022 12:04 pm, Max Demian wrote:

> On 13/12/2022 17:36, William Wright wrote:
>> On 13/12/2022 12:19, JNugent wrote:
>
>>> Rental of aerials must have been rare.
>>
>> I never came across it, although some aerials were boughtg on HP.
> Sky would put dishes on any house whose owners subscribed to the
> service. Who paid for them, and who did they belong to if the subscriber
> cancelled?

Sky paid for them.

Of course, Sky's money comes from, among other sources, subscribers.

If and when service is discontinued, the subscriber retains ownership of
the dish and box (though not Sky Q boxes and probably not Sky Glass).

JNugent wrote:

> If and when service is discontinued, the subscriber retains ownership of the
> dish and box (though not Sky Q boxes and probably not Sky Glass).

I thought glass was dishless?

Pretty sure you do own the glass at the end (but not the Q and its dish)

On Wed, 14 Dec 2022 12:06:30 +0000, Max Demian
<max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:

>On 13/12/2022 17:50, William Wright wrote:
>> On 12/12/2022 15:55, Ian Jackson wrote:
>
>>> In circa 1976 I bought a Sony 18" colour TV, on the basis Sony sets
>>> had a fantastic reputation for quality and reliability. It broke down
>>> three times in the first three months (the first time after three
>>> weeks, when a 1A fuse feeding the CRT heater went O/C). It took the
>>> dealer at least two weeks to fix it).
>>>
>>> As for the other two times, I managed to fix it myself (as I had
>>> access to the full workshop manual, and the faults were pretty obvious).
>>>
>>> I later learned that it might have been one of the first to be
>>> assembled in Wales, and not in Japan - and it was said that
>>> those-in-the-know sometimes specified that what they were buying
>>> should be 100% Japanese.
>>
>> I was working for a Sony dealer at the time. The Welsh sets were a
>> disaster. They did a lot of damage to Sony's reputation in the trade.
>
>Too busy thinking about their sheep and falling asleep.

The Aberdonian version of the Rolling Stones song - Hey McCloud get
off of my ewe.

On Thursday, 8 December 2022 at 13:04:46 UTC, Scott wrote:

> Without wishing to be ageist in any way, I
> believe there are some pensioners who don't even have a computer in
> their home.

Yes but it doesn't manner. We'll all be dead soon.

Bill

On 15/12/2022 21:14, Andy Burns wrote:
> JNugent wrote:
>
>> If and when service is discontinued, the subscriber retains ownership
>> of the dish and box (though not Sky Q boxes and probably not Sky Glass).
>
> I thought glass was dishless?
>
> Pretty sure you do own the glass at the end (but not the Q and its dish)

You may not own the dish with a SkyQ contract, but cost of removal of
the dish, (plus the fact it will be rusty/weathered and be unusable
anywhere else) means it's almost certainly kept in place.
In any case, retaining it allows the punter to resubscribe at a latter
date.

On 15/12/2022 21:14, Andy Burns wrote:
> JNugent wrote:
>
>> If and when service is discontinued, the subscriber retains ownership
>> of the dish and box (though not Sky Q boxes and probably not Sky Glass).
>

you never own SkyQ boxes they are loaned.

> I thought glass was dishless?
>

it is.

> Pretty sure you do own the glass at the end (but not the Q and its dish)

you own it from the beginning, they give you an interest free loan or
you can pay cash, but it needs a sky subscription to receive anything
but normal off-air tv...
... so although it has netflix , its netflix via sky...

.... and if you sell it to someone else you can't even add a sky
subscription....

Dave

On 13/12/2022 19:04, Woody wrote:
> On Tue 13/12/2022 18:17, JNugent wrote:
>> On 13/12/2022 05:24 pm, Max Demian wrote:
>>>
>>> This one was available in the UK in the early 70s and was very highly
>>> thought of:
>>> https://collection.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/objects/co8066774/sony-trinitron-colour-television-1969-1970-television-receiver
>>
>> In the mid-80s, I saw a shop which had a job lot of those, selling
>> them for about £40 each. They had previously been supplied to a hotel
>> chain for use in guest bedrooms.
>
> Auntie used to use them as monitors in their OB scanners. Never seen a
> picture like it.
>

We used them on our OB Radio Link vans - very reliable.

--

Chris

On 16/12/2022 13:43, Chris Youlden wrote:
> On 13/12/2022 19:04, Woody wrote:
>> On Tue 13/12/2022 18:17, JNugent wrote:
>>> On 13/12/2022 05:24 pm, Max Demian wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This one was available in the UK in the early 70s and was very
>>>> highly thought of:
>>>> https://collection.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/objects/co8066774/sony-trinitron-colour-television-1969-1970-television-receiver
>>>
>>>
>>> In the mid-80s, I saw a shop which had a job lot of those, selling
>>> them for about £40 each. They had previously been supplied to a
>>> hotel chain for use in guest bedrooms.
>>
>> Auntie used to use them as monitors in their OB scanners. Never seen
>> a picture like it.
>>
>
> We used them on our OB Radio Link vans - very reliable.
>
In all my 30 years working for Sony, the Beeb never used Sonys  for
'Grade 1' racks monitoring, only ever for 'source' monitoring.

There was the matter of the two horizontal  'mask grille' strengthening
bars in the CRTs, that once you'd seen, you could never 'un-see !'

I can remember a BBC engineer (in a Norwegian MCR; long story !) on one
occasion being convinced the two lines were in the input signal.
It was only after I'd pulled everything out of the back of the monitor,
(except the power !) and lifted the brightness, that he finally believed
my story about the bars !

On Fri, 16 Dec 2022 16:55:50 +0000, Mark Carver
<mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>In all my 30 years working for Sony, the Beeb never used Sonys  for
>'Grade 1' racks monitoring, only ever for 'source' monitoring.
>
>There was the matter of the two horizontal  'mask grille' strengthening
>bars in the CRTs, that once you'd seen, you could never 'un-see !'
>
>I can remember a BBC engineer (in a Norwegian MCR; long story !) on one
>occasion being convinced the two lines were in the input signal.
>It was only after I'd pulled everything out of the back of the monitor,
>(except the power !) and lifted the brightness, that he finally believed
>my story about the bars !

It's even more convincing if you get the chance to smash one to bits
and extract the metal grille frame. Seeing is believing, and if you
run your fingers lightly over the grille itself you can appreciate the
difference it makes after the damping wire is cut.

Rod.

On 16/12/2022 16:55, Mark Carver wrote:
> On 16/12/2022 13:43, Chris Youlden wrote:
>> On 13/12/2022 19:04, Woody wrote:
>>> On Tue 13/12/2022 18:17, JNugent wrote:
>>>> On 13/12/2022 05:24 pm, Max Demian wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> This one was available in the UK in the early 70s and was very
>>>>> highly thought of:
>>>>> https://collection.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/objects/co8066774/sony-trinitron-colour-television-1969-1970-television-receiver
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In the mid-80s, I saw a shop which had a job lot of those, selling
>>>> them for about £40 each. They had previously been supplied to a
>>>> hotel chain for use in guest bedrooms.
>>>
>>> Auntie used to use them as monitors in their OB scanners. Never seen
>>> a picture like it.
>>>
>>
>> We used them on our OB Radio Link vans - very reliable.
>>
> In all my 30 years working for Sony, the Beeb never used Sonys  for
> 'Grade 1' racks monitoring, only ever for 'source' monitoring.
>

Yes, agreed. The Trinitron tubes seemed to have a relatively short life
- can't remember how long now.
--

Chris

On Friday, 16 December 2022 at 08:40:56 UTC, Mark Carver wrote:
> On 15/12/2022 21:14, Andy Burns wrote:
> > JNugent wrote:
> >
> >> If and when service is discontinued, the subscriber retains ownership
> >> of the dish and box (though not Sky Q boxes and probably not Sky Glass).
> >
> > I thought glass was dishless?
> >
> > Pretty sure you do own the glass at the end (but not the Q and its dish)
> You may not own the dish with a SkyQ contract, but cost of removal of
> the dish, (plus the fact it will be rusty/weathered and be unusable
> anywhere else) means it's almost certainly kept in place.
> In any case, retaining it allows the punter to resubscribe at a latter
> date.
Sky never ever remove dishes. Even when a subscriber moves house they leave the old dish.
Bill

On 15/12/2022 09:14 pm, Andy Burns wrote:

> JNugent wrote:

>> If and when service is discontinued, the subscriber retains ownership
>> of the dish and box (though not Sky Q boxes and probably not Sky Glass).

> I thought glass was dishless?

As I understand it, that is correct. Useful for people who, for whatever
reason, cannot have a dish affixed to the building (though exactly what
difference there is between that and Now TV is unclear to me).
>
> Pretty sure you do own the glass at the end (but not the Q and its dish).

The dish stays behind (it belongs to the subscriber from installation
onward). A Q box doesn't. I tried Sky Q for a month or so. I didn't find
it suitable and "reverted" to Sky+HD. I expected the engineer to
reinstall the Sky+HD box that was then stored in the garage. They
brought me a brand new one so the original is still there as a spare.

Bill Wright wrote:

> Sky never ever remove dishes. Even when a subscriber moves house they leave the old dish

My neigbour had a dish fitted by Sky on the chimney, later they upgraded to sky
Q and got another dish fitted on the gable end, sky refused to remove the old
one ... "too high up"

On 08/12/2022 15:20, Scott wrote:
> Almost certainly. All pensioners have high speed broadband into the
> home, especially those on the BT Basic package.

Until recently the fastest speed in our village was 3MBPS. Others are
even less lucky.

Andy

On 08/12/2022 15:45, Mark Carver wrote:
> It's entirely self supporting (like the copper cable, that has steel
> bearers inside). They will take the copper away, (if you are having FTTP
> as an upgrade, rather than an extra service) I think the maximum run
> spec for BT overhead cables (copper or  fibre) is 78 metres  ?

They didn't take ours away. We have two coppers and a fibre running from
the pole to the house.

Andy

Vir Campestris wrote:

> Mark Carver wrote:
>
>> They will take the copper away, (if you are having FTTP as an
>> upgrade, rather than an extra service)
>
> They didn't take ours away. We have two coppers and a fibre running from the
> pole to the house.

IIRC, you were an early-ish adopter, and they hadn't exactly got all their ducks
in a row?

On 20/12/2022 12:42, Andy Burns wrote:
> Vir Campestris wrote:
>
>> Mark Carver wrote:
>>
>>> They will take the copper away, (if you are having FTTP as an
>>> upgrade, rather than an extra service)
>>
>> They didn't take ours away. We have two coppers and a fibre running
>> from the pole to the house.
>
> IIRC, you were an early-ish adopter, and they hadn't exactly got all
> their ducks in a row?
>
>
Yes, and I'm reading in other forums about cases where the copper is
ripped out, the FTTP installed, but (for whatever reason) doesn't work
and the punter is left for days/weeks/months with no service

On Tue, 20 Dec 2022 12:29:41 +0000, Vir Campestris
<vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>On 08/12/2022 15:20, Scott wrote:
>> Almost certainly. All pensioners have high speed broadband into the
>> home, especially those on the BT Basic package.
>
>Until recently the fastest speed in our village was 3MBPS. Others are
>even less lucky.
>
Are you suffering from irony bypass?

On Tue, 20 Dec 2022 12:40:18 +0000, Vir Campestris
<vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>On 08/12/2022 15:45, Mark Carver wrote:
>> It's entirely self supporting (like the copper cable, that has steel
>> bearers inside). They will take the copper away, (if you are having FTTP
>> as an upgrade, rather than an extra service) I think the maximum run
>> spec for BT overhead cables (copper or  fibre) is 78 metres  ?
>
>They didn't take ours away. We have two coppers and a fibre running from
>the pole to the house.
>
Maybe it is a police cadet training exercise :-)

On Tue, 20 Dec 2022 12:45:45 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

> all those slow copper lines in villages will have been ripped out

Why does stuff always have to be 'ripped' out?
Can't it just be 'taken' out, in a controlled manner?