On 11/2/22 11:39 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 10/02/2022 9:35 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 10/2/22 3:48 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> On 10/02/2022 10:01 am, Daryl wrote:
>>>  > On 9/2/22 3:18 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>  >> On 9/02/2022 1:14 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>>  >>> On 9/02/2022 8:53 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>  >>>> On 9/02/2022 8:57 am, Daryl wrote:
>>>  >>>>> On 9/2/22 5:24 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>  >>>>>> On 9/02/2022 1:22 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>  >>>>>>>
>>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/game-changing-4680-battery-goes-into-production/
>>>
>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>  >>>>>>
>>>  >>>>>> **Li-Ion batteries, as I have stated many times, is merely a
>>> short term, interim step for BEVs. Al-Ion batteries will sweep away
>>> all otehr battery technologies. Some VERY interesting developments
>>> right here in OZ:
>>>  >>>>>>
>>>  >>>>>>
>>> https://graphenemg.com/energy-storage-solutions/aluminum-ion-battery/
>>>  >>>>>
>>>  >>>>>
>>>  >>>>> Problem will be if and when that new battery tech comes on
>>> line what to do with all the old batteries, eventually someone will
>>> figure out how to recycle but until then old batteries will be as big
>>> problem than nuclear waste.
>>>  >>>>
>>>  >>>> **We have to figure out what to do with ALL batteries. Li-Ion,
>>> NiMH, NiCd, alkaline, etc. All are problematic. As big a problem as
>>> nuclear waste? Not even remotely close. You are engaged in either
>>> gross hyperbole or you have zero idea of just how dangerous nuclear
>>> waste really is. Thing is this: Al-Ion batteries are far less of a
>>> problem, compared to Li-Ion batteries. A point which will accelerate
>>> their development.
>>>  >>>>
>>>  >>>>> IMHO battery electric vehicles are no where near as "green" as
>>> their promoters would like us to believe.
>>>  >>>>
>>>  >>>> **Depends. Burning fossil fuels is killing the planet.
>>> Disposing of batteries is a local problem.
>>>  >>>>
>>>  >>>
>>>  >>>
>>>  >>> It doesn't "depend" at all. An enormous amount of resources go
>>> into building an electric vehicle, the electricity used to charge
>>> them has an environmental cost associated with it and then EV's have
>>> a relatively short viable service life and have significant
>>> environmental impact at end of life.
>>>  >>>
>>>  >>> If you want to save the environment you would have less
>>> environmental impact driving some old IC car around for 30 years
>>> instead of buying a new EV every 5-10 years.
>>>  >>>
>>>  >>>
>>>  >>
>>>  >> **Those comments are applicable TODAY and in Australia. They may
>>> not be applicable in the near future and certainly not in all places.
>>> In any case, it really doesn't matter. Australia doesn't build cars.
>>> Since the companies that do are phasing out IC cars, we will have
>>> little choice in what we can purchase.
>>>  >
>>>  >
>>>  > Yes and no, no one is compelled to buy a new car.
>>>
>>> **Indeed. However, when fossil fuels cost (say) $10.00/L, those
>>> people may think twice. Particularly in light of this estimate:
>>>
>>> https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/may/09/electric-cars-will-be-cheaper-to-produce-than-fossil-fuel-vehicles-by-2027
>>>
>>>
>>>  > My car is 20yrs old and done just over 200,000km, last year I only
>>> did 6000km in it, at that rate it could still be reliable for another
>>> 10yrs.
>>>
>>> **Sure. Same as my Nissan, except it is 21 years old. Nissan knew how
>>> to build cars back then. However, when fuel costs me $10.00/L, I may
>>> re-think keeping the old girl.
>>>
>>>  > If Covid has done anything good its that fewer people are
>>> commuting to work so cars on average are doing less klms so no need
>>> to replace them as often, a well maintained car doing average kms can
>>> easily last 30yrs.
>>>
>>> **Sure.
>>>
>>>  > Funny thing is one of the few people I know who drives an EV
>>> (Hyundai Kona) has only done 6000km in the last 18mths because he now
>>> works from home, hardly worth the $60k it cost his employer.
>>>  > I know someone with an 11yr old Prius on its original battery, I
>>> don't know how long they usually last but at 11yrs its at the end of
>>> its life.
>>>  > There will come a time when people will need to replace their cars
>>> but how far in the future that is is anyone's guess, my guess is its
>>> at least 10yrs away.
>>>
>>> **Here's the thing:
>>>
>>> https://www.canstarblue.com.au/vehicles/average-car-price/
>>>
>>> And this:
>>>
>>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/australia-average-vehicle-age-is-10-1-years/
>>>
>>>
>>> The average age of Australian cars is 10.1 years.
>>>
>>> The average Australian car buyer keeps their car for 6.1 years. You
>>> and I are outliers.
>>>
>>>  > In one way EV's might be a good thing, it will force people to put
>>> their cars in their garage to charge them instead of filling garages
>>> with junk then parking cars on the street:-)
>>>
>>> **True. And, here's the thing. It's extremely likely that my next car
>>> (replacing either the Nissan or the Suby) will be BEV or PHEV. It is
>>> highly unlikely that I would consider buying a non-battery equipped
>>> vehicle ever again. I doubt that I am alone in this view.
>>>
>>> Something like this looks like a good idea:
>>>
>>> https://www.drive.com.au/reviews/2022-mitsubishi-eclipse-cross-phev-review/?utm_campaign=syndication&utm_source=smh.com.au&utm_content=article_2&utm_medium=partner
>>>
>>>
>>> For me, I would likely need to visit a servo twice a year.
>>
>>
>> The cost of fuel is peanuts compared to the vehicles buy price and
>> depreciation.
>
> **That is true TODAY. In ten years, that may not be the case.
>
>> Wife's Golf is getting around 700km from its 50liter tank using it for
>> generally running around, 50/50 hwy city driving so compared to other
>> costs petrol isn't a big deal.
>
> **Fuel costs have never been a huge part of the expense for average to
> low kms drivers. Those who do high kms have a different equation to
> satisfy. Which is why taxis are almost all Camry hybrids.
>
>> Had to replace a fog/turn/ side lamp H11 globe today, price varied
>> from $40-60 depending on brand which IMHO is nuts.
>
> **That's VW for you. In truth, it's likely to be the case for all car
> importers.

Nothing to do with VW or imported cars, its just a standard globe.
Look up how much and how difficult it is to change some Subaru
WRX/Levorg globes, makes the VW seem cheap and easy, I had to change one
of the front indicator globes on the WRX, it was neither easy or cheap.
I also had to go to 4 different parts shops to find the WRX globes.
>
> Alternatively, I purchased this brand of LED for the Stagea:
>
> https://www.banggood.com/NovSight-A500-N50-2PCS-70W-Car-LED-Headlights-Bulbs-H1-H3-H4-H7-H11-H13-9005-9006-9007-9012-Fog-Lamps-15000LM-6500K-p-1839965.html?cur_warehouse=CN&ID=518371&rmmds=search
>
>
> Very, VERY nice. Should last a very long time.
>
The picture supposedly shows a H11 globe except it isn't a H11?
I replaced the Golf high beams with LED's, big improvement but a PITA to
fit, the problem with LED is the heat sink and in many cars there isn't
much space to accommodate it.

--
Daryl

On 11/02/2022 12:21 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 11/2/22 11:39 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 10/02/2022 9:35 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>> On 10/2/22 3:48 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>> On 10/02/2022 10:01 am, Daryl wrote:
>>>>  > On 9/2/22 3:18 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>  >> On 9/02/2022 1:14 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>>>  >>> On 9/02/2022 8:53 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>  >>>> On 9/02/2022 8:57 am, Daryl wrote:
>>>>  >>>>> On 9/2/22 5:24 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>  >>>>>> On 9/02/2022 1:22 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/game-changing-4680-battery-goes-into-production/
>>>>
>>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>>  >>>>>>
>>>>  >>>>>> **Li-Ion batteries, as I have stated many times, is merely a
>>>> short term, interim step for BEVs. Al-Ion batteries will sweep away
>>>> all otehr battery technologies. Some VERY interesting developments
>>>> right here in OZ:
>>>>  >>>>>>
>>>>  >>>>>>
>>>> https://graphenemg.com/energy-storage-solutions/aluminum-ion-battery/
>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>  >>>>> Problem will be if and when that new battery tech comes on
>>>> line what to do with all the old batteries, eventually someone will
>>>> figure out how to recycle but until then old batteries will be as
>>>> big problem than nuclear waste.
>>>>  >>>>
>>>>  >>>> **We have to figure out what to do with ALL batteries. Li-Ion,
>>>> NiMH, NiCd, alkaline, etc. All are problematic. As big a problem as
>>>> nuclear waste? Not even remotely close. You are engaged in either
>>>> gross hyperbole or you have zero idea of just how dangerous nuclear
>>>> waste really is. Thing is this: Al-Ion batteries are far less of a
>>>> problem, compared to Li-Ion batteries. A point which will accelerate
>>>> their development.
>>>>  >>>>
>>>>  >>>>> IMHO battery electric vehicles are no where near as "green"
>>>> as their promoters would like us to believe.
>>>>  >>>>
>>>>  >>>> **Depends. Burning fossil fuels is killing the planet.
>>>> Disposing of batteries is a local problem.
>>>>  >>>>
>>>>  >>>
>>>>  >>>
>>>>  >>> It doesn't "depend" at all. An enormous amount of resources go
>>>> into building an electric vehicle, the electricity used to charge
>>>> them has an environmental cost associated with it and then EV's have
>>>> a relatively short viable service life and have significant
>>>> environmental impact at end of life.
>>>>  >>>
>>>>  >>> If you want to save the environment you would have less
>>>> environmental impact driving some old IC car around for 30 years
>>>> instead of buying a new EV every 5-10 years.
>>>>  >>>
>>>>  >>>
>>>>  >>
>>>>  >> **Those comments are applicable TODAY and in Australia. They may
>>>> not be applicable in the near future and certainly not in all
>>>> places. In any case, it really doesn't matter. Australia doesn't
>>>> build cars. Since the companies that do are phasing out IC cars, we
>>>> will have little choice in what we can purchase.
>>>>  >
>>>>  >
>>>>  > Yes and no, no one is compelled to buy a new car.
>>>>
>>>> **Indeed. However, when fossil fuels cost (say) $10.00/L, those
>>>> people may think twice. Particularly in light of this estimate:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/may/09/electric-cars-will-be-cheaper-to-produce-than-fossil-fuel-vehicles-by-2027
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  > My car is 20yrs old and done just over 200,000km, last year I
>>>> only did 6000km in it, at that rate it could still be reliable for
>>>> another 10yrs.
>>>>
>>>> **Sure. Same as my Nissan, except it is 21 years old. Nissan knew
>>>> how to build cars back then. However, when fuel costs me $10.00/L, I
>>>> may re-think keeping the old girl.
>>>>
>>>>  > If Covid has done anything good its that fewer people are
>>>> commuting to work so cars on average are doing less klms so no need
>>>> to replace them as often, a well maintained car doing average kms
>>>> can easily last 30yrs.
>>>>
>>>> **Sure.
>>>>
>>>>  > Funny thing is one of the few people I know who drives an EV
>>>> (Hyundai Kona) has only done 6000km in the last 18mths because he
>>>> now works from home, hardly worth the $60k it cost his employer.
>>>>  > I know someone with an 11yr old Prius on its original battery, I
>>>> don't know how long they usually last but at 11yrs its at the end of
>>>> its life.
>>>>  > There will come a time when people will need to replace their
>>>> cars but how far in the future that is is anyone's guess, my guess
>>>> is its at least 10yrs away.
>>>>
>>>> **Here's the thing:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.canstarblue.com.au/vehicles/average-car-price/
>>>>
>>>> And this:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/australia-average-vehicle-age-is-10-1-years/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The average age of Australian cars is 10.1 years.
>>>>
>>>> The average Australian car buyer keeps their car for 6.1 years. You
>>>> and I are outliers.
>>>>
>>>>  > In one way EV's might be a good thing, it will force people to
>>>> put their cars in their garage to charge them instead of filling
>>>> garages with junk then parking cars on the street:-)
>>>>
>>>> **True. And, here's the thing. It's extremely likely that my next
>>>> car (replacing either the Nissan or the Suby) will be BEV or PHEV.
>>>> It is highly unlikely that I would consider buying a non-battery
>>>> equipped vehicle ever again. I doubt that I am alone in this view.
>>>>
>>>> Something like this looks like a good idea:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.drive.com.au/reviews/2022-mitsubishi-eclipse-cross-phev-review/?utm_campaign=syndication&utm_source=smh.com.au&utm_content=article_2&utm_medium=partner
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> For me, I would likely need to visit a servo twice a year.
>>>
>>>
>>> The cost of fuel is peanuts compared to the vehicles buy price and
>>> depreciation.
>>
>> **That is true TODAY. In ten years, that may not be the case.
>>
>>> Wife's Golf is getting around 700km from its 50liter tank using it
>>> for generally running around, 50/50 hwy city driving so compared to
>>> other costs petrol isn't a big deal.
>>
>> **Fuel costs have never been a huge part of the expense for average to
>> low kms drivers. Those who do high kms have a different equation to
>> satisfy. Which is why taxis are almost all Camry hybrids.
>>
>>> Had to replace a fog/turn/ side lamp H11 globe today, price varied
>>> from $40-60 depending on brand which IMHO is nuts.
>>
>> **That's VW for you. In truth, it's likely to be the case for all car
>> importers.
>
> Nothing to do with VW or imported cars, its just a standard globe.
> Look up how much and how difficult it is to change some Subaru
> WRX/Levorg globes, makes the VW seem cheap and easy, I had to change one
> of the front indicator globes on the WRX, it was neither easy or cheap.
> I also had to go to 4 different parts shops to find the WRX globes.

**I don't have to worry with the Levorg. It uses LED headlights. They
SHOULD last forever. The Nissan uses HID lamps, which last a very long
time. I have replaced them.

On 11/02/2022 8:39 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 10/02/2022 9:35 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 10/2/22 3:48 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> On 10/02/2022 10:01 am, Daryl wrote:
>>>  > On 9/2/22 3:18 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>  >> On 9/02/2022 1:14 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>>  >>> On 9/02/2022 8:53 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>  >>>> On 9/02/2022 8:57 am, Daryl wrote:
>>>  >>>>> On 9/2/22 5:24 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>  >>>>>> On 9/02/2022 1:22 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>  >>>>>>>
>>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/game-changing-4680-battery-goes-into-production/
>>>
>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>  >>>>>>
>>>  >>>>>> **Li-Ion batteries, as I have stated many times, is merely a
>>> short term, interim step for BEVs. Al-Ion batteries will sweep away
>>> all otehr battery technologies. Some VERY interesting developments
>>> right here in OZ:
>>>  >>>>>>
>>>  >>>>>>
>>> https://graphenemg.com/energy-storage-solutions/aluminum-ion-battery/
>>>  >>>>>
>>>  >>>>>
>>>  >>>>> Problem will be if and when that new battery tech comes on
>>> line what to do with all the old batteries, eventually someone will
>>> figure out how to recycle but until then old batteries will be as big
>>> problem than nuclear waste.
>>>  >>>>
>>>  >>>> **We have to figure out what to do with ALL batteries. Li-Ion,
>>> NiMH, NiCd, alkaline, etc. All are problematic. As big a problem as
>>> nuclear waste? Not even remotely close. You are engaged in either
>>> gross hyperbole or you have zero idea of just how dangerous nuclear
>>> waste really is. Thing is this: Al-Ion batteries are far less of a
>>> problem, compared to Li-Ion batteries. A point which will accelerate
>>> their development.
>>>  >>>>
>>>  >>>>> IMHO battery electric vehicles are no where near as "green" as
>>> their promoters would like us to believe.
>>>  >>>>
>>>  >>>> **Depends. Burning fossil fuels is killing the planet.
>>> Disposing of batteries is a local problem.
>>>  >>>>
>>>  >>>
>>>  >>>
>>>  >>> It doesn't "depend" at all. An enormous amount of resources go
>>> into building an electric vehicle, the electricity used to charge
>>> them has an environmental cost associated with it and then EV's have
>>> a relatively short viable service life and have significant
>>> environmental impact at end of life.
>>>  >>>
>>>  >>> If you want to save the environment you would have less
>>> environmental impact driving some old IC car around for 30 years
>>> instead of buying a new EV every 5-10 years.
>>>  >>>
>>>  >>>
>>>  >>
>>>  >> **Those comments are applicable TODAY and in Australia. They may
>>> not be applicable in the near future and certainly not in all places.
>>> In any case, it really doesn't matter. Australia doesn't build cars.
>>> Since the companies that do are phasing out IC cars, we will have
>>> little choice in what we can purchase.
>>>  >
>>>  >
>>>  > Yes and no, no one is compelled to buy a new car.
>>>
>>> **Indeed. However, when fossil fuels cost (say) $10.00/L, those
>>> people may think twice. Particularly in light of this estimate:
>>>
>>> https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/may/09/electric-cars-will-be-cheaper-to-produce-than-fossil-fuel-vehicles-by-2027
>>>
>>>
>>>  > My car is 20yrs old and done just over 200,000km, last year I only
>>> did 6000km in it, at that rate it could still be reliable for another
>>> 10yrs.
>>>
>>> **Sure. Same as my Nissan, except it is 21 years old. Nissan knew how
>>> to build cars back then. However, when fuel costs me $10.00/L, I may
>>> re-think keeping the old girl.
>>>
>>>  > If Covid has done anything good its that fewer people are
>>> commuting to work so cars on average are doing less klms so no need
>>> to replace them as often, a well maintained car doing average kms can
>>> easily last 30yrs.
>>>
>>> **Sure.
>>>
>>>  > Funny thing is one of the few people I know who drives an EV
>>> (Hyundai Kona) has only done 6000km in the last 18mths because he now
>>> works from home, hardly worth the $60k it cost his employer.
>>>  > I know someone with an 11yr old Prius on its original battery, I
>>> don't know how long they usually last but at 11yrs its at the end of
>>> its life.
>>>  > There will come a time when people will need to replace their cars
>>> but how far in the future that is is anyone's guess, my guess is its
>>> at least 10yrs away.
>>>
>>> **Here's the thing:
>>>
>>> https://www.canstarblue.com.au/vehicles/average-car-price/
>>>
>>> And this:
>>>
>>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/australia-average-vehicle-age-is-10-1-years/
>>>
>>>
>>> The average age of Australian cars is 10.1 years.
>>>
>>> The average Australian car buyer keeps their car for 6.1 years. You
>>> and I are outliers.
>>>
>>>  > In one way EV's might be a good thing, it will force people to put
>>> their cars in their garage to charge them instead of filling garages
>>> with junk then parking cars on the street:-)
>>>
>>> **True. And, here's the thing. It's extremely likely that my next car
>>> (replacing either the Nissan or the Suby) will be BEV or PHEV. It is
>>> highly unlikely that I would consider buying a non-battery equipped
>>> vehicle ever again. I doubt that I am alone in this view.
>>>
>>> Something like this looks like a good idea:
>>>
>>> https://www.drive.com.au/reviews/2022-mitsubishi-eclipse-cross-phev-review/?utm_campaign=syndication&utm_source=smh.com.au&utm_content=article_2&utm_medium=partner
>>>
>>>
>>> For me, I would likely need to visit a servo twice a year.
>>
>>
>> The cost of fuel is peanuts compared to the vehicles buy price and
>> depreciation.
>
> **That is true TODAY. In ten years, that may not be the case.
>
>> Wife's Golf is getting around 700km from its 50liter tank using it for
>> generally running around, 50/50 hwy city driving so compared to other
>> costs petrol isn't a big deal.
>
> **Fuel costs have never been a huge part of the expense for average to
> low kms drivers. Those who do high kms have a different equation to
> satisfy. Which is why taxis are almost all Camry hybrids.
>
>> Had to replace a fog/turn/ side lamp H11 globe today, price varied
>> from $40-60 depending on brand which IMHO is nuts.
>
> **That's VW for you. In truth, it's likely to be the case for all car
> importers.
>
> Alternatively, I purchased this brand of LED for the Stagea:
>
> https://www.banggood.com/NovSight-A500-N50-2PCS-70W-Car-LED-Headlights-Bulbs-H1-H3-H4-H7-H11-H13-9005-9006-9007-9012-Fog-Lamps-15000LM-6500K-p-1839965.html?cur_warehouse=CN&ID=518371&rmmds=search
>
>
> Very, VERY nice. Should last a very long time.
>

Maybe. Those look exactly the same as a local company retrofitted to
their fleet only to have to replace them within months due to high LED
driver failure rates because they could not dissipate heat quick enough.
Obviously it's application dependent so YMMV.

On 10/02/2022 6:35 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 10/2/22 3:48 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 10/02/2022 10:01 am, Daryl wrote:
>>  > On 9/2/22 3:18 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>  >> On 9/02/2022 1:14 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>  >>> On 9/02/2022 8:53 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>  >>>> On 9/02/2022 8:57 am, Daryl wrote:
>>  >>>>> On 9/2/22 5:24 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>  >>>>>> On 9/02/2022 1:22 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>  >>>>>>>
>>  >>>>>>>
>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/game-changing-4680-battery-goes-into-production/
>>
>>  >>>>>>>
>>  >>>>>>
>>  >>>>>> **Li-Ion batteries, as I have stated many times, is merely a
>> short term, interim step for BEVs. Al-Ion batteries will sweep away
>> all otehr battery technologies. Some VERY interesting developments
>> right here in OZ:
>>  >>>>>>
>>  >>>>>>
>> https://graphenemg.com/energy-storage-solutions/aluminum-ion-battery/
>>  >>>>>
>>  >>>>>
>>  >>>>> Problem will be if and when that new battery tech comes on line
>> what to do with all the old batteries, eventually someone will figure
>> out how to recycle but until then old batteries will be as big problem
>> than nuclear waste.
>>  >>>>
>>  >>>> **We have to figure out what to do with ALL batteries. Li-Ion,
>> NiMH, NiCd, alkaline, etc. All are problematic. As big a problem as
>> nuclear waste? Not even remotely close. You are engaged in either
>> gross hyperbole or you have zero idea of just how dangerous nuclear
>> waste really is. Thing is this: Al-Ion batteries are far less of a
>> problem, compared to Li-Ion batteries. A point which will accelerate
>> their development.
>>  >>>>
>>  >>>>> IMHO battery electric vehicles are no where near as "green" as
>> their promoters would like us to believe.
>>  >>>>
>>  >>>> **Depends. Burning fossil fuels is killing the planet. Disposing
>> of batteries is a local problem.
>>  >>>>
>>  >>>
>>  >>>
>>  >>> It doesn't "depend" at all. An enormous amount of resources go
>> into building an electric vehicle, the electricity used to charge them
>> has an environmental cost associated with it and then EV's have a
>> relatively short viable service life and have significant
>> environmental impact at end of life.
>>  >>>
>>  >>> If you want to save the environment you would have less
>> environmental impact driving some old IC car around for 30 years
>> instead of buying a new EV every 5-10 years.
>>  >>>
>>  >>>
>>  >>
>>  >> **Those comments are applicable TODAY and in Australia. They may
>> not be applicable in the near future and certainly not in all places.
>> In any case, it really doesn't matter. Australia doesn't build cars.
>> Since the companies that do are phasing out IC cars, we will have
>> little choice in what we can purchase.
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > Yes and no, no one is compelled to buy a new car.
>>
>> **Indeed. However, when fossil fuels cost (say) $10.00/L, those people
>> may think twice. Particularly in light of this estimate:
>>
>> https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/may/09/electric-cars-will-be-cheaper-to-produce-than-fossil-fuel-vehicles-by-2027
>>
>>
>>  > My car is 20yrs old and done just over 200,000km, last year I only
>> did 6000km in it, at that rate it could still be reliable for another
>> 10yrs.
>>
>> **Sure. Same as my Nissan, except it is 21 years old. Nissan knew how
>> to build cars back then. However, when fuel costs me $10.00/L, I may
>> re-think keeping the old girl.
>>
>>  > If Covid has done anything good its that fewer people are commuting
>> to work so cars on average are doing less klms so no need to replace
>> them as often, a well maintained car doing average kms can easily last
>> 30yrs.
>>
>> **Sure.
>>
>>  > Funny thing is one of the few people I know who drives an EV
>> (Hyundai Kona) has only done 6000km in the last 18mths because he now
>> works from home, hardly worth the $60k it cost his employer.
>>  > I know someone with an 11yr old Prius on its original battery, I
>> don't know how long they usually last but at 11yrs its at the end of
>> its life.
>>  > There will come a time when people will need to replace their cars
>> but how far in the future that is is anyone's guess, my guess is its
>> at least 10yrs away.
>>
>> **Here's the thing:
>>
>> https://www.canstarblue.com.au/vehicles/average-car-price/
>>
>> And this:
>>
>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/australia-average-vehicle-age-is-10-1-years/
>>
>>
>> The average age of Australian cars is 10.1 years.
>>
>> The average Australian car buyer keeps their car for 6.1 years. You
>> and I are outliers.
>>
>>  > In one way EV's might be a good thing, it will force people to put
>> their cars in their garage to charge them instead of filling garages
>> with junk then parking cars on the street:-)
>>
>> **True. And, here's the thing. It's extremely likely that my next car
>> (replacing either the Nissan or the Suby) will be BEV or PHEV. It is
>> highly unlikely that I would consider buying a non-battery equipped
>> vehicle ever again. I doubt that I am alone in this view.
>>
>> Something like this looks like a good idea:
>>
>> https://www.drive.com.au/reviews/2022-mitsubishi-eclipse-cross-phev-review/?utm_campaign=syndication&utm_source=smh.com.au&utm_content=article_2&utm_medium=partner
>>
>>
>> For me, I would likely need to visit a servo twice a year.
>
>
> The cost of fuel is peanuts compared to the vehicles buy price and
> depreciation.
> Wife's Golf is getting around 700km from its 50liter tank using it for
> generally running around, 50/50 hwy city driving so compared to other
> costs petrol isn't a big deal.
> Had to replace a fog/turn/ side lamp H11 globe today, price varied from
> $40-60 depending on brand which IMHO is nuts.
>

$33 retail, less at trade, or a few $ on ebay.
It wasn't that long ago that I was chucking them out, I would have sent
you few for free.

On 11/02/2022 1:57 pm, Clocky wrote:
> On 11/02/2022 8:39 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 10/02/2022 9:35 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>> On 10/2/22 3:48 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>> On 10/02/2022 10:01 am, Daryl wrote:
>>>>  > On 9/2/22 3:18 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>  >> On 9/02/2022 1:14 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>>>  >>> On 9/02/2022 8:53 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>  >>>> On 9/02/2022 8:57 am, Daryl wrote:
>>>>  >>>>> On 9/2/22 5:24 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>  >>>>>> On 9/02/2022 1:22 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/game-changing-4680-battery-goes-into-production/
>>>>
>>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>>  >>>>>>
>>>>  >>>>>> **Li-Ion batteries, as I have stated many times, is merely a
>>>> short term, interim step for BEVs. Al-Ion batteries will sweep away
>>>> all otehr battery technologies. Some VERY interesting developments
>>>> right here in OZ:
>>>>  >>>>>>
>>>>  >>>>>>
>>>> https://graphenemg.com/energy-storage-solutions/aluminum-ion-battery/
>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>  >>>>> Problem will be if and when that new battery tech comes on
>>>> line what to do with all the old batteries, eventually someone will
>>>> figure out how to recycle but until then old batteries will be as
>>>> big problem than nuclear waste.
>>>>  >>>>
>>>>  >>>> **We have to figure out what to do with ALL batteries. Li-Ion,
>>>> NiMH, NiCd, alkaline, etc. All are problematic. As big a problem as
>>>> nuclear waste? Not even remotely close. You are engaged in either
>>>> gross hyperbole or you have zero idea of just how dangerous nuclear
>>>> waste really is. Thing is this: Al-Ion batteries are far less of a
>>>> problem, compared to Li-Ion batteries. A point which will accelerate
>>>> their development.
>>>>  >>>>
>>>>  >>>>> IMHO battery electric vehicles are no where near as "green"
>>>> as their promoters would like us to believe.
>>>>  >>>>
>>>>  >>>> **Depends. Burning fossil fuels is killing the planet.
>>>> Disposing of batteries is a local problem.
>>>>  >>>>
>>>>  >>>
>>>>  >>>
>>>>  >>> It doesn't "depend" at all. An enormous amount of resources go
>>>> into building an electric vehicle, the electricity used to charge
>>>> them has an environmental cost associated with it and then EV's have
>>>> a relatively short viable service life and have significant
>>>> environmental impact at end of life.
>>>>  >>>
>>>>  >>> If you want to save the environment you would have less
>>>> environmental impact driving some old IC car around for 30 years
>>>> instead of buying a new EV every 5-10 years.
>>>>  >>>
>>>>  >>>
>>>>  >>
>>>>  >> **Those comments are applicable TODAY and in Australia. They may
>>>> not be applicable in the near future and certainly not in all
>>>> places. In any case, it really doesn't matter. Australia doesn't
>>>> build cars. Since the companies that do are phasing out IC cars, we
>>>> will have little choice in what we can purchase.
>>>>  >
>>>>  >
>>>>  > Yes and no, no one is compelled to buy a new car.
>>>>
>>>> **Indeed. However, when fossil fuels cost (say) $10.00/L, those
>>>> people may think twice. Particularly in light of this estimate:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/may/09/electric-cars-will-be-cheaper-to-produce-than-fossil-fuel-vehicles-by-2027
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  > My car is 20yrs old and done just over 200,000km, last year I
>>>> only did 6000km in it, at that rate it could still be reliable for
>>>> another 10yrs.
>>>>
>>>> **Sure. Same as my Nissan, except it is 21 years old. Nissan knew
>>>> how to build cars back then. However, when fuel costs me $10.00/L, I
>>>> may re-think keeping the old girl.
>>>>
>>>>  > If Covid has done anything good its that fewer people are
>>>> commuting to work so cars on average are doing less klms so no need
>>>> to replace them as often, a well maintained car doing average kms
>>>> can easily last 30yrs.
>>>>
>>>> **Sure.
>>>>
>>>>  > Funny thing is one of the few people I know who drives an EV
>>>> (Hyundai Kona) has only done 6000km in the last 18mths because he
>>>> now works from home, hardly worth the $60k it cost his employer.
>>>>  > I know someone with an 11yr old Prius on its original battery, I
>>>> don't know how long they usually last but at 11yrs its at the end of
>>>> its life.
>>>>  > There will come a time when people will need to replace their
>>>> cars but how far in the future that is is anyone's guess, my guess
>>>> is its at least 10yrs away.
>>>>
>>>> **Here's the thing:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.canstarblue.com.au/vehicles/average-car-price/
>>>>
>>>> And this:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/australia-average-vehicle-age-is-10-1-years/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The average age of Australian cars is 10.1 years.
>>>>
>>>> The average Australian car buyer keeps their car for 6.1 years. You
>>>> and I are outliers.
>>>>
>>>>  > In one way EV's might be a good thing, it will force people to
>>>> put their cars in their garage to charge them instead of filling
>>>> garages with junk then parking cars on the street:-)
>>>>
>>>> **True. And, here's the thing. It's extremely likely that my next
>>>> car (replacing either the Nissan or the Suby) will be BEV or PHEV.
>>>> It is highly unlikely that I would consider buying a non-battery
>>>> equipped vehicle ever again. I doubt that I am alone in this view.
>>>>
>>>> Something like this looks like a good idea:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.drive.com.au/reviews/2022-mitsubishi-eclipse-cross-phev-review/?utm_campaign=syndication&utm_source=smh.com.au&utm_content=article_2&utm_medium=partner
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> For me, I would likely need to visit a servo twice a year.
>>>
>>>
>>> The cost of fuel is peanuts compared to the vehicles buy price and
>>> depreciation.
>>
>> **That is true TODAY. In ten years, that may not be the case.
>>
>>> Wife's Golf is getting around 700km from its 50liter tank using it
>>> for generally running around, 50/50 hwy city driving so compared to
>>> other costs petrol isn't a big deal.
>>
>> **Fuel costs have never been a huge part of the expense for average to
>> low kms drivers. Those who do high kms have a different equation to
>> satisfy. Which is why taxis are almost all Camry hybrids.
>>
>>> Had to replace a fog/turn/ side lamp H11 globe today, price varied
>>> from $40-60 depending on brand which IMHO is nuts.
>>
>> **That's VW for you. In truth, it's likely to be the case for all car
>> importers.
>>
>> Alternatively, I purchased this brand of LED for the Stagea:
>>
>> https://www.banggood.com/NovSight-A500-N50-2PCS-70W-Car-LED-Headlights-Bulbs-H1-H3-H4-H7-H11-H13-9005-9006-9007-9012-Fog-Lamps-15000LM-6500K-p-1839965.html?cur_warehouse=CN&ID=518371&rmmds=search
>>
>>
>> Very, VERY nice. Should last a very long time.
>>
>
>
> Maybe. Those look exactly the same as a local company retrofitted to
> their fleet only to have to replace them within months due to high LED
> driver failure rates because they could not dissipate heat quick enough.
> Obviously it's application dependent so YMMV.

On 11/2/22 1:02 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 11/02/2022 12:21 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 11/2/22 11:39 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> On 10/02/2022 9:35 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>>> On 10/2/22 3:48 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>> On 10/02/2022 10:01 am, Daryl wrote:
>>>>>  > On 9/2/22 3:18 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>  >> On 9/02/2022 1:14 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>  >>> On 9/02/2022 8:53 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>  >>>> On 9/02/2022 8:57 am, Daryl wrote:
>>>>>  >>>>> On 9/2/22 5:24 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>  >>>>>> On 9/02/2022 1:22 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/game-changing-4680-battery-goes-into-production/
>>>>>
>>>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>>>  >>>>>>
>>>>>  >>>>>> **Li-Ion batteries, as I have stated many times, is merely
>>>>> a short term, interim step for BEVs. Al-Ion batteries will sweep
>>>>> away all otehr battery technologies. Some VERY interesting
>>>>> developments right here in OZ:
>>>>>  >>>>>>
>>>>>  >>>>>>
>>>>> https://graphenemg.com/energy-storage-solutions/aluminum-ion-battery/
>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>  >>>>> Problem will be if and when that new battery tech comes on
>>>>> line what to do with all the old batteries, eventually someone will
>>>>> figure out how to recycle but until then old batteries will be as
>>>>> big problem than nuclear waste.
>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>  >>>> **We have to figure out what to do with ALL batteries.
>>>>> Li-Ion, NiMH, NiCd, alkaline, etc. All are problematic. As big a
>>>>> problem as nuclear waste? Not even remotely close. You are engaged
>>>>> in either gross hyperbole or you have zero idea of just how
>>>>> dangerous nuclear waste really is. Thing is this: Al-Ion batteries
>>>>> are far less of a problem, compared to Li-Ion batteries. A point
>>>>> which will accelerate their development.
>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>  >>>>> IMHO battery electric vehicles are no where near as "green"
>>>>> as their promoters would like us to believe.
>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>  >>>> **Depends. Burning fossil fuels is killing the planet.
>>>>> Disposing of batteries is a local problem.
>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >>> It doesn't "depend" at all. An enormous amount of resources go
>>>>> into building an electric vehicle, the electricity used to charge
>>>>> them has an environmental cost associated with it and then EV's
>>>>> have a relatively short viable service life and have significant
>>>>> environmental impact at end of life.
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >>> If you want to save the environment you would have less
>>>>> environmental impact driving some old IC car around for 30 years
>>>>> instead of buying a new EV every 5-10 years.
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >> **Those comments are applicable TODAY and in Australia. They
>>>>> may not be applicable in the near future and certainly not in all
>>>>> places. In any case, it really doesn't matter. Australia doesn't
>>>>> build cars. Since the companies that do are phasing out IC cars, we
>>>>> will have little choice in what we can purchase.
>>>>>  >
>>>>>  >
>>>>>  > Yes and no, no one is compelled to buy a new car.
>>>>>
>>>>> **Indeed. However, when fossil fuels cost (say) $10.00/L, those
>>>>> people may think twice. Particularly in light of this estimate:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/may/09/electric-cars-will-be-cheaper-to-produce-than-fossil-fuel-vehicles-by-2027
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  > My car is 20yrs old and done just over 200,000km, last year I
>>>>> only did 6000km in it, at that rate it could still be reliable for
>>>>> another 10yrs.
>>>>>
>>>>> **Sure. Same as my Nissan, except it is 21 years old. Nissan knew
>>>>> how to build cars back then. However, when fuel costs me $10.00/L,
>>>>> I may re-think keeping the old girl.
>>>>>
>>>>>  > If Covid has done anything good its that fewer people are
>>>>> commuting to work so cars on average are doing less klms so no need
>>>>> to replace them as often, a well maintained car doing average kms
>>>>> can easily last 30yrs.
>>>>>
>>>>> **Sure.
>>>>>
>>>>>  > Funny thing is one of the few people I know who drives an EV
>>>>> (Hyundai Kona) has only done 6000km in the last 18mths because he
>>>>> now works from home, hardly worth the $60k it cost his employer.
>>>>>  > I know someone with an 11yr old Prius on its original battery, I
>>>>> don't know how long they usually last but at 11yrs its at the end
>>>>> of its life.
>>>>>  > There will come a time when people will need to replace their
>>>>> cars but how far in the future that is is anyone's guess, my guess
>>>>> is its at least 10yrs away.
>>>>>
>>>>> **Here's the thing:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.canstarblue.com.au/vehicles/average-car-price/
>>>>>
>>>>> And this:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/australia-average-vehicle-age-is-10-1-years/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The average age of Australian cars is 10.1 years.
>>>>>
>>>>> The average Australian car buyer keeps their car for 6.1 years. You
>>>>> and I are outliers.
>>>>>
>>>>>  > In one way EV's might be a good thing, it will force people to
>>>>> put their cars in their garage to charge them instead of filling
>>>>> garages with junk then parking cars on the street:-)
>>>>>
>>>>> **True. And, here's the thing. It's extremely likely that my next
>>>>> car (replacing either the Nissan or the Suby) will be BEV or PHEV.
>>>>> It is highly unlikely that I would consider buying a non-battery
>>>>> equipped vehicle ever again. I doubt that I am alone in this view.
>>>>>
>>>>> Something like this looks like a good idea:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.drive.com.au/reviews/2022-mitsubishi-eclipse-cross-phev-review/?utm_campaign=syndication&utm_source=smh.com.au&utm_content=article_2&utm_medium=partner
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> For me, I would likely need to visit a servo twice a year.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The cost of fuel is peanuts compared to the vehicles buy price and
>>>> depreciation.
>>>
>>> **That is true TODAY. In ten years, that may not be the case.
>>>
>>>> Wife's Golf is getting around 700km from its 50liter tank using it
>>>> for generally running around, 50/50 hwy city driving so compared to
>>>> other costs petrol isn't a big deal.
>>>
>>> **Fuel costs have never been a huge part of the expense for average
>>> to low kms drivers. Those who do high kms have a different equation
>>> to satisfy. Which is why taxis are almost all Camry hybrids.
>>>
>>>> Had to replace a fog/turn/ side lamp H11 globe today, price varied
>>>> from $40-60 depending on brand which IMHO is nuts.
>>>
>>> **That's VW for you. In truth, it's likely to be the case for all car
>>> importers.
>>
>> Nothing to do with VW or imported cars, its just a standard globe.
>> Look up how much and how difficult it is to change some Subaru
>> WRX/Levorg globes, makes the VW seem cheap and easy, I had to change
>> one of the front indicator globes on the WRX, it was neither easy or
>> cheap.
>> I also had to go to 4 different parts shops to find the WRX globes.
>
> **I don't have to worry with the Levorg. It uses LED headlights. They
> SHOULD last forever. The Nissan uses HID lamps, which last a very long
> time. I have replaced them.

On 11/2/22 2:31 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:

>> Maybe. Those look exactly the same as a local company retrofitted to
>> their fleet only to have to replace them within months due to high LED
>> driver failure rates because they could not dissipate heat quick
>> enough. Obviously it's application dependent so YMMV.
>
> **They may LOOK exactly the same, but I can assure you that there are
> differences. As I found, to my cost. The first set I purchased had a
> fault in one lamp. I ordered another, more expensive set. When they
> arrived, I put them on the bench and measured the light output on my
> light meter. The more expensive set cost about 30% more, were far better
> finished and constructed (copper heat sinking) and delivered around 70%
> more light! Well worth spending a few extra Bucks. Which I why I
> specified the Novsight brand. They are clearly a superior product.
> Critically, the ones to avoid are the ones that DON'T use an external
> driver. The ones that employ a built-in driver are problematic, because
> the fan has to cool and LED assembly and the driver.

These are what I fitted to the Golf.
https://www.stedi.com.au/copper-head-h15-led-head-light-conversion-kit.html
So far they work very well, as I said not easy to fit and the copper
heat sinks take up lots of space but I still managed to get it all
inside the housing and fit the cover.

--
Daryl

On 11/02/2022 11:31 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 11/02/2022 1:57 pm, Clocky wrote:
>> On 11/02/2022 8:39 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> On 10/02/2022 9:35 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>>> On 10/2/22 3:48 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>> On 10/02/2022 10:01 am, Daryl wrote:
>>>>>  > On 9/2/22 3:18 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>  >> On 9/02/2022 1:14 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>  >>> On 9/02/2022 8:53 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>  >>>> On 9/02/2022 8:57 am, Daryl wrote:
>>>>>  >>>>> On 9/2/22 5:24 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>  >>>>>> On 9/02/2022 1:22 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/game-changing-4680-battery-goes-into-production/
>>>>>
>>>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>>>  >>>>>>
>>>>>  >>>>>> **Li-Ion batteries, as I have stated many times, is merely
>>>>> a short term, interim step for BEVs. Al-Ion batteries will sweep
>>>>> away all otehr battery technologies. Some VERY interesting
>>>>> developments right here in OZ:
>>>>>  >>>>>>
>>>>>  >>>>>>
>>>>> https://graphenemg.com/energy-storage-solutions/aluminum-ion-battery/
>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>  >>>>> Problem will be if and when that new battery tech comes on
>>>>> line what to do with all the old batteries, eventually someone will
>>>>> figure out how to recycle but until then old batteries will be as
>>>>> big problem than nuclear waste.
>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>  >>>> **We have to figure out what to do with ALL batteries.
>>>>> Li-Ion, NiMH, NiCd, alkaline, etc. All are problematic. As big a
>>>>> problem as nuclear waste? Not even remotely close. You are engaged
>>>>> in either gross hyperbole or you have zero idea of just how
>>>>> dangerous nuclear waste really is. Thing is this: Al-Ion batteries
>>>>> are far less of a problem, compared to Li-Ion batteries. A point
>>>>> which will accelerate their development.
>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>  >>>>> IMHO battery electric vehicles are no where near as "green"
>>>>> as their promoters would like us to believe.
>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>  >>>> **Depends. Burning fossil fuels is killing the planet.
>>>>> Disposing of batteries is a local problem.
>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >>> It doesn't "depend" at all. An enormous amount of resources go
>>>>> into building an electric vehicle, the electricity used to charge
>>>>> them has an environmental cost associated with it and then EV's
>>>>> have a relatively short viable service life and have significant
>>>>> environmental impact at end of life.
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >>> If you want to save the environment you would have less
>>>>> environmental impact driving some old IC car around for 30 years
>>>>> instead of buying a new EV every 5-10 years.
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >> **Those comments are applicable TODAY and in Australia. They
>>>>> may not be applicable in the near future and certainly not in all
>>>>> places. In any case, it really doesn't matter. Australia doesn't
>>>>> build cars. Since the companies that do are phasing out IC cars, we
>>>>> will have little choice in what we can purchase.
>>>>>  >
>>>>>  >
>>>>>  > Yes and no, no one is compelled to buy a new car.
>>>>>
>>>>> **Indeed. However, when fossil fuels cost (say) $10.00/L, those
>>>>> people may think twice. Particularly in light of this estimate:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/may/09/electric-cars-will-be-cheaper-to-produce-than-fossil-fuel-vehicles-by-2027
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  > My car is 20yrs old and done just over 200,000km, last year I
>>>>> only did 6000km in it, at that rate it could still be reliable for
>>>>> another 10yrs.
>>>>>
>>>>> **Sure. Same as my Nissan, except it is 21 years old. Nissan knew
>>>>> how to build cars back then. However, when fuel costs me $10.00/L,
>>>>> I may re-think keeping the old girl.
>>>>>
>>>>>  > If Covid has done anything good its that fewer people are
>>>>> commuting to work so cars on average are doing less klms so no need
>>>>> to replace them as often, a well maintained car doing average kms
>>>>> can easily last 30yrs.
>>>>>
>>>>> **Sure.
>>>>>
>>>>>  > Funny thing is one of the few people I know who drives an EV
>>>>> (Hyundai Kona) has only done 6000km in the last 18mths because he
>>>>> now works from home, hardly worth the $60k it cost his employer.
>>>>>  > I know someone with an 11yr old Prius on its original battery, I
>>>>> don't know how long they usually last but at 11yrs its at the end
>>>>> of its life.
>>>>>  > There will come a time when people will need to replace their
>>>>> cars but how far in the future that is is anyone's guess, my guess
>>>>> is its at least 10yrs away.
>>>>>
>>>>> **Here's the thing:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.canstarblue.com.au/vehicles/average-car-price/
>>>>>
>>>>> And this:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/australia-average-vehicle-age-is-10-1-years/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The average age of Australian cars is 10.1 years.
>>>>>
>>>>> The average Australian car buyer keeps their car for 6.1 years. You
>>>>> and I are outliers.
>>>>>
>>>>>  > In one way EV's might be a good thing, it will force people to
>>>>> put their cars in their garage to charge them instead of filling
>>>>> garages with junk then parking cars on the street:-)
>>>>>
>>>>> **True. And, here's the thing. It's extremely likely that my next
>>>>> car (replacing either the Nissan or the Suby) will be BEV or PHEV.
>>>>> It is highly unlikely that I would consider buying a non-battery
>>>>> equipped vehicle ever again. I doubt that I am alone in this view.
>>>>>
>>>>> Something like this looks like a good idea:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.drive.com.au/reviews/2022-mitsubishi-eclipse-cross-phev-review/?utm_campaign=syndication&utm_source=smh.com.au&utm_content=article_2&utm_medium=partner
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> For me, I would likely need to visit a servo twice a year.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The cost of fuel is peanuts compared to the vehicles buy price and
>>>> depreciation.
>>>
>>> **That is true TODAY. In ten years, that may not be the case.
>>>
>>>> Wife's Golf is getting around 700km from its 50liter tank using it
>>>> for generally running around, 50/50 hwy city driving so compared to
>>>> other costs petrol isn't a big deal.
>>>
>>> **Fuel costs have never been a huge part of the expense for average
>>> to low kms drivers. Those who do high kms have a different equation
>>> to satisfy. Which is why taxis are almost all Camry hybrids.
>>>
>>>> Had to replace a fog/turn/ side lamp H11 globe today, price varied
>>>> from $40-60 depending on brand which IMHO is nuts.
>>>
>>> **That's VW for you. In truth, it's likely to be the case for all car
>>> importers.
>>>
>>> Alternatively, I purchased this brand of LED for the Stagea:
>>>
>>> https://www.banggood.com/NovSight-A500-N50-2PCS-70W-Car-LED-Headlights-Bulbs-H1-H3-H4-H7-H11-H13-9005-9006-9007-9012-Fog-Lamps-15000LM-6500K-p-1839965.html?cur_warehouse=CN&ID=518371&rmmds=search
>>>
>>>
>>> Very, VERY nice. Should last a very long time.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Maybe. Those look exactly the same as a local company retrofitted to
>> their fleet only to have to replace them within months due to high LED
>> driver failure rates because they could not dissipate heat quick
>> enough. Obviously it's application dependent so YMMV.
>
> **They may LOOK exactly the same, but I can assure you that there are
> differences.

On 11/02/2022 3:28 pm, Clocky wrote:
> On 11/02/2022 11:31 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 11/02/2022 1:57 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>> On 11/02/2022 8:39 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>> On 10/02/2022 9:35 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>>>> On 10/2/22 3:48 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/02/2022 10:01 am, Daryl wrote:
>>>>>>  > On 9/2/22 3:18 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>  >> On 9/02/2022 1:14 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>>  >>> On 9/02/2022 8:53 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>  >>>> On 9/02/2022 8:57 am, Daryl wrote:
>>>>>>  >>>>> On 9/2/22 5:24 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>  >>>>>> On 9/02/2022 1:22 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/game-changing-4680-battery-goes-into-production/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>> **Li-Ion batteries, as I have stated many times, is merely
>>>>>> a short term, interim step for BEVs. Al-Ion batteries will sweep
>>>>>> away all otehr battery technologies. Some VERY interesting
>>>>>> developments right here in OZ:
>>>>>>  >>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>
>>>>>> https://graphenemg.com/energy-storage-solutions/aluminum-ion-battery/
>>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>> Problem will be if and when that new battery tech comes on
>>>>>> line what to do with all the old batteries, eventually someone
>>>>>> will figure out how to recycle but until then old batteries will
>>>>>> be as big problem than nuclear waste.
>>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>>  >>>> **We have to figure out what to do with ALL batteries.
>>>>>> Li-Ion, NiMH, NiCd, alkaline, etc. All are problematic. As big a
>>>>>> problem as nuclear waste? Not even remotely close. You are engaged
>>>>>> in either gross hyperbole or you have zero idea of just how
>>>>>> dangerous nuclear waste really is. Thing is this: Al-Ion batteries
>>>>>> are far less of a problem, compared to Li-Ion batteries. A point
>>>>>> which will accelerate their development.
>>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>> IMHO battery electric vehicles are no where near as "green"
>>>>>> as their promoters would like us to believe.
>>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>>  >>>> **Depends. Burning fossil fuels is killing the planet.
>>>>>> Disposing of batteries is a local problem.
>>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >>> It doesn't "depend" at all. An enormous amount of resources
>>>>>> go into building an electric vehicle, the electricity used to
>>>>>> charge them has an environmental cost associated with it and then
>>>>>> EV's have a relatively short viable service life and have
>>>>>> significant environmental impact at end of life.
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >>> If you want to save the environment you would have less
>>>>>> environmental impact driving some old IC car around for 30 years
>>>>>> instead of buying a new EV every 5-10 years.
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >> **Those comments are applicable TODAY and in Australia. They
>>>>>> may not be applicable in the near future and certainly not in all
>>>>>> places. In any case, it really doesn't matter. Australia doesn't
>>>>>> build cars. Since the companies that do are phasing out IC cars,
>>>>>> we will have little choice in what we can purchase.
>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>  > Yes and no, no one is compelled to buy a new car.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **Indeed. However, when fossil fuels cost (say) $10.00/L, those
>>>>>> people may think twice. Particularly in light of this estimate:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/may/09/electric-cars-will-be-cheaper-to-produce-than-fossil-fuel-vehicles-by-2027
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  > My car is 20yrs old and done just over 200,000km, last year I
>>>>>> only did 6000km in it, at that rate it could still be reliable for
>>>>>> another 10yrs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **Sure. Same as my Nissan, except it is 21 years old. Nissan knew
>>>>>> how to build cars back then. However, when fuel costs me $10.00/L,
>>>>>> I may re-think keeping the old girl.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  > If Covid has done anything good its that fewer people are
>>>>>> commuting to work so cars on average are doing less klms so no
>>>>>> need to replace them as often, a well maintained car doing average
>>>>>> kms can easily last 30yrs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **Sure.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  > Funny thing is one of the few people I know who drives an EV
>>>>>> (Hyundai Kona) has only done 6000km in the last 18mths because he
>>>>>> now works from home, hardly worth the $60k it cost his employer.
>>>>>>  > I know someone with an 11yr old Prius on its original battery,
>>>>>> I don't know how long they usually last but at 11yrs its at the
>>>>>> end of its life.
>>>>>>  > There will come a time when people will need to replace their
>>>>>> cars but how far in the future that is is anyone's guess, my guess
>>>>>> is its at least 10yrs away.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **Here's the thing:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.canstarblue.com.au/vehicles/average-car-price/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And this:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/australia-average-vehicle-age-is-10-1-years/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The average age of Australian cars is 10.1 years.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The average Australian car buyer keeps their car for 6.1 years.
>>>>>> You and I are outliers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  > In one way EV's might be a good thing, it will force people to
>>>>>> put their cars in their garage to charge them instead of filling
>>>>>> garages with junk then parking cars on the street:-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **True. And, here's the thing. It's extremely likely that my next
>>>>>> car (replacing either the Nissan or the Suby) will be BEV or PHEV.
>>>>>> It is highly unlikely that I would consider buying a non-battery
>>>>>> equipped vehicle ever again. I doubt that I am alone in this view.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Something like this looks like a good idea:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.drive.com.au/reviews/2022-mitsubishi-eclipse-cross-phev-review/?utm_campaign=syndication&utm_source=smh.com.au&utm_content=article_2&utm_medium=partner
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For me, I would likely need to visit a servo twice a year.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The cost of fuel is peanuts compared to the vehicles buy price and
>>>>> depreciation.
>>>>
>>>> **That is true TODAY. In ten years, that may not be the case.
>>>>
>>>>> Wife's Golf is getting around 700km from its 50liter tank using it
>>>>> for generally running around, 50/50 hwy city driving so compared to
>>>>> other costs petrol isn't a big deal.
>>>>
>>>> **Fuel costs have never been a huge part of the expense for average
>>>> to low kms drivers. Those who do high kms have a different equation
>>>> to satisfy. Which is why taxis are almost all Camry hybrids.
>>>>
>>>>> Had to replace a fog/turn/ side lamp H11 globe today, price varied
>>>>> from $40-60 depending on brand which IMHO is nuts.
>>>>
>>>> **That's VW for you. In truth, it's likely to be the case for all
>>>> car importers.
>>>>
>>>> Alternatively, I purchased this brand of LED for the Stagea:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.banggood.com/NovSight-A500-N50-2PCS-70W-Car-LED-Headlights-Bulbs-H1-H3-H4-H7-H11-H13-9005-9006-9007-9012-Fog-Lamps-15000LM-6500K-p-1839965.html?cur_warehouse=CN&ID=518371&rmmds=search
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Very, VERY nice. Should last a very long time.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Maybe. Those look exactly the same as a local company retrofitted to
>>> their fleet only to have to replace them within months due to high
>>> LED driver failure rates because they could not dissipate heat quick
>>> enough. Obviously it's application dependent so YMMV.
>>
>> **They may LOOK exactly the same, but I can assure you that there are
>> differences.
>
>
>
> As I found, to my cost. The first set I purchased had a
>> fault in one lamp. I ordered another, more expensive set. When they
>> arrived, I put them on the bench and measured the light output on my
>> light meter. The more expensive set cost about 30% more, were far
>> better finished and constructed (copper heat sinking) and delivered
>> around 70% more light! Well worth spending a few extra Bucks. Which I
>> why I specified the Novsight brand. They are clearly a superior
>> product. Critically, the ones to avoid are the ones that DON'T use an
>> external driver. The ones that employ a built-in driver are
>> problematic, because the fan has to cool and LED assembly and the driver.
>
> Anything with a fan is problematic out in the field. They just don't
> last. As I said, YMMV greatly depending on application.
>

On 11/02/2022 3:01 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 11/2/22 2:31 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>
>>> Maybe. Those look exactly the same as a local company retrofitted to
>>> their fleet only to have to replace them within months due to high
>>> LED driver failure rates because they could not dissipate heat quick
>>> enough. Obviously it's application dependent so YMMV.
>>
>> **They may LOOK exactly the same, but I can assure you that there are
>> differences. As I found, to my cost. The first set I purchased had a
>> fault in one lamp. I ordered another, more expensive set. When they
>> arrived, I put them on the bench and measured the light output on my
>> light meter. The more expensive set cost about 30% more, were far
>> better finished and constructed (copper heat sinking) and delivered
>> around 70% more light! Well worth spending a few extra Bucks. Which I
>> why I specified the Novsight brand. They are clearly a superior
>> product. Critically, the ones to avoid are the ones that DON'T use an
>> external driver. The ones that employ a built-in driver are
>> problematic, because the fan has to cool and LED assembly and the driver.
>
> These are what I fitted to the Golf.
> https://www.stedi.com.au/copper-head-h15-led-head-light-conversion-kit.html
> So far they work very well, as I said not easy to fit and the copper
> heat sinks take up lots of space but I still managed to get it all
> inside the housing and fit the cover.
>

**I prefer fan cooling. Smaller and far more efficient at keeping the
LEDs cool. A fan can increase the efficiency of a heat sink by more than
10 times.

On 9/02/2022 12:14 pm, Clocky wrote:
> On 9/02/2022 8:53 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 9/02/2022 8:57 am, Daryl wrote:
>>> On 9/2/22 5:24 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>> On 9/02/2022 1:22 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/game-changing-4680-battery-goes-into-production/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> **Li-Ion batteries, as I have stated many times, is merely a short
>>>> term, interim step for BEVs. Al-Ion batteries will sweep away all
>>>> otehr battery technologies. Some VERY interesting developments right
>>>> here in OZ:
>>>>
>>>> https://graphenemg.com/energy-storage-solutions/aluminum-ion-battery/
>>>
>>>
>>> Problem will be if and when that new battery tech comes on line what
>>> to do with all the old batteries, eventually someone will figure out
>>> how to recycle but until then old batteries will be as big problem
>>> than nuclear waste.
>>
>> **We have to figure out what to do with ALL batteries. Li-Ion, NiMH,
>> NiCd, alkaline, etc. All are problematic. As big a problem as nuclear
>> waste? Not even remotely close. You are engaged in either gross
>> hyperbole or you have zero idea of just how dangerous nuclear waste
>> really is. Thing is this: Al-Ion batteries are far less of a problem,
>> compared to Li-Ion batteries. A point which will accelerate their
>> development.
>>
>>> IMHO battery electric vehicles are no where near as "green" as their
>>> promoters would like us to believe.
>>
>> **Depends. Burning fossil fuels is killing the planet. Disposing of
>> batteries is a local problem.
>>
>
>
> It doesn't "depend" at all. An enormous amount of resources go into
> building an electric vehicle, the electricity used to charge them has an
> environmental cost associated with it and then EV's have a relatively
> short viable service life and have significant environmental impact at
> end of life.

When people compare IC engine cars to electric, and conclude the EVs
have a higher environmental impact, they only consider the burning of
petrol in the IC car. They don't consider the energy used and pollution
produced in :

Pumping the oil out of the ground.
Transporting the oil to the refinery.
Refining the oil into petrol (refineries are major energy users and
produce a lot of pollution)
Transporting the petrol by sea in ships burning heavy bunker oil
Transporting the petrol by truck out to the service station.

Those may even exceed to problems caused burning the petrol in the IC
engines.

Another bonus using electricity is that it doesn't need to be imported,
so helping the countries balance of trade.

> If you want to save the environment you would have less environmental
> impact driving some old IC car around for 30 years instead of buying a
> new EV every 5-10 years.

Not many IC cars see out 30 years of service.

On 11/2/22 4:28 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 11/02/2022 3:01 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 11/2/22 2:31 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>
>>>> Maybe. Those look exactly the same as a local company retrofitted to
>>>> their fleet only to have to replace them within months due to high
>>>> LED driver failure rates because they could not dissipate heat quick
>>>> enough. Obviously it's application dependent so YMMV.
>>>
>>> **They may LOOK exactly the same, but I can assure you that there are
>>> differences. As I found, to my cost. The first set I purchased had a
>>> fault in one lamp. I ordered another, more expensive set. When they
>>> arrived, I put them on the bench and measured the light output on my
>>> light meter. The more expensive set cost about 30% more, were far
>>> better finished and constructed (copper heat sinking) and delivered
>>> around 70% more light! Well worth spending a few extra Bucks. Which I
>>> why I specified the Novsight brand. They are clearly a superior
>>> product. Critically, the ones to avoid are the ones that DON'T use an
>>> external driver. The ones that employ a built-in driver are
>>> problematic, because the fan has to cool and LED assembly and the
>>> driver.
>>
>> These are what I fitted to the Golf.
>> https://www.stedi.com.au/copper-head-h15-led-head-light-conversion-kit.html
>>
>> So far they work very well, as I said not easy to fit and the copper
>> heat sinks take up lots of space but I still managed to get it all
>> inside the housing and fit the cover.
>>
>
> **I prefer fan cooling. Smaller and far more efficient at keeping the
> LEDs cool. A fan can increase the efficiency of a heat sink by more than
> 10 times.

No way LED with fans would fit the Golf.
The Stedi website states that they use copper "belts" to get rid of heat
instead of fans because many cars don't have the space for aftermarket
fan type LED's.

--
Daryl

On 10/02/2022 9:01 am, Daryl wrote:
> On 9/2/22 3:18 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 9/02/2022 1:14 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>> On 9/02/2022 8:53 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>> On 9/02/2022 8:57 am, Daryl wrote:
>>>>> On 9/2/22 5:24 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/02/2022 1:22 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/game-changing-4680-battery-goes-into-production/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **Li-Ion batteries, as I have stated many times, is merely a short
>>>>>> term, interim step for BEVs. Al-Ion batteries will sweep away all
>>>>>> otehr battery technologies. Some VERY interesting developments
>>>>>> right here in OZ:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://graphenemg.com/energy-storage-solutions/aluminum-ion-battery/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Problem will be if and when that new battery tech comes on line
>>>>> what to do with all the old batteries, eventually someone will
>>>>> figure out how to recycle but until then old batteries will be as
>>>>> big problem than nuclear waste.
>>>>
>>>> **We have to figure out what to do with ALL batteries. Li-Ion, NiMH,
>>>> NiCd, alkaline, etc. All are problematic. As big a problem as
>>>> nuclear waste? Not even remotely close. You are engaged in either
>>>> gross hyperbole or you have zero idea of just how dangerous nuclear
>>>> waste really is. Thing is this: Al-Ion batteries are far less of a
>>>> problem, compared to Li-Ion batteries. A point which will accelerate
>>>> their development.
>>>>
>>>>> IMHO battery electric vehicles are no where near as "green" as
>>>>> their promoters would like us to believe.
>>>>
>>>> **Depends. Burning fossil fuels is killing the planet. Disposing of
>>>> batteries is a local problem.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It doesn't "depend" at all. An enormous amount of resources go into
>>> building an electric vehicle, the electricity used to charge them has
>>> an environmental cost associated with it and then EV's have a
>>> relatively short viable service life and have significant
>>> environmental impact at end of life.
>>>
>>> If you want to save the environment you would have less environmental
>>> impact driving some old IC car around for 30 years instead of buying
>>> a new EV every 5-10 years.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> **Those comments are applicable TODAY and in Australia. They may not
>> be applicable in the near future and certainly not in all places. In
>> any case, it really doesn't matter. Australia doesn't build cars.
>> Since the companies that do are phasing out IC cars, we will have
>> little choice in what we can purchase.
>
>
> Yes and no, no one is compelled to buy a new car.

Depends where you live, in Japan, the cost of keeping a car on the road
is deliberately made more each year until after 7 years or so it is
uneconomical to do so. That is why Japanese scrap yards look like
Australian second hand car yards, and it is economical to ship older
Japanese cars abroad.

> My car is 20yrs old and done just over 200,000km, last year I only did
> 6000km in it, at that rate it could still be reliable for another 10yrs.
> If Covid has done anything good its that fewer people are commuting to
> work so cars on average are doing less klms so no need to replace them
> as often, a well maintained car doing average kms can easily last 30yrs.
> Funny thing is one of the few people I know who drives an EV (Hyundai
> Kona) has only done 6000km in the last 18mths because he now works from
> home, hardly worth the $60k it cost his employer.
> I know someone with an 11yr old Prius on its original battery, I don't
> know how long they usually last but at 11yrs its at the end of its life.
> There will come a time when people will need to replace their cars but
> how far in the future that is is anyone's guess, my guess is its at
> least 10yrs away.
> In one way EV's might be a good thing, it will force people to put their
> cars in their garage to charge them instead of filling garages with junk
> then parking cars on the street:-)
>

On 11/02/2022 5:31 pm, keithr0 wrote:

> When people compare IC engine cars to electric, and conclude the EVs
> have a higher environmental impact, they only consider the burning of
> petrol in the IC car. They don't consider the energy used and pollution
> produced in :
>
> Pumping the oil out of the ground.
> Transporting the oil to the refinery.
> Refining the oil into petrol (refineries are major energy users and
> produce a lot of pollution)
> Transporting the petrol by sea in ships burning heavy bunker oil
> Transporting the petrol by truck out to the service station.
>
> Those may even exceed to problems caused burning the petrol in the IC
> engines.

They may do, but you'll never know.

> Another bonus using electricity is that it doesn't need to be imported,
> so helping the countries balance of trade.

It would depend on how you generate your electricity.

>> If you want to save the environment you would have less environmental
>> impact driving some old IC car around for 30 years instead of buying a
>> new EV every 5-10 years.
>
> Not many IC cars see out 30 years of service.

You need to get out more. Head into some of the more "bogun" areas in
any state and you'll find no end of 30 year old Commodores still in
daily use. Ask our resident Wesrtrayan dickhead all about that :)

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 11/2/22 5:40 pm, keithr0 wrote:
> On 10/02/2022 9:01 am, Daryl wrote:
>> On 9/2/22 3:18 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> On 9/02/2022 1:14 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>>> On 9/02/2022 8:53 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>> On 9/02/2022 8:57 am, Daryl wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/2/22 5:24 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>> On 9/02/2022 1:22 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/game-changing-4680-battery-goes-into-production/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> **Li-Ion batteries, as I have stated many times, is merely a
>>>>>>> short term, interim step for BEVs. Al-Ion batteries will sweep
>>>>>>> away all otehr battery technologies. Some VERY interesting
>>>>>>> developments right here in OZ:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://graphenemg.com/energy-storage-solutions/aluminum-ion-battery/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Problem will be if and when that new battery tech comes on line
>>>>>> what to do with all the old batteries, eventually someone will
>>>>>> figure out how to recycle but until then old batteries will be as
>>>>>> big problem than nuclear waste.
>>>>>
>>>>> **We have to figure out what to do with ALL batteries. Li-Ion,
>>>>> NiMH, NiCd, alkaline, etc. All are problematic. As big a problem as
>>>>> nuclear waste? Not even remotely close. You are engaged in either
>>>>> gross hyperbole or you have zero idea of just how dangerous nuclear
>>>>> waste really is. Thing is this: Al-Ion batteries are far less of a
>>>>> problem, compared to Li-Ion batteries. A point which will
>>>>> accelerate their development.
>>>>>
>>>>>> IMHO battery electric vehicles are no where near as "green" as
>>>>>> their promoters would like us to believe.
>>>>>
>>>>> **Depends. Burning fossil fuels is killing the planet. Disposing of
>>>>> batteries is a local problem.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It doesn't "depend" at all. An enormous amount of resources go into
>>>> building an electric vehicle, the electricity used to charge them
>>>> has an environmental cost associated with it and then EV's have a
>>>> relatively short viable service life and have significant
>>>> environmental impact at end of life.
>>>>
>>>> If you want to save the environment you would have less
>>>> environmental impact driving some old IC car around for 30 years
>>>> instead of buying a new EV every 5-10 years.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> **Those comments are applicable TODAY and in Australia. They may not
>>> be applicable in the near future and certainly not in all places. In
>>> any case, it really doesn't matter. Australia doesn't build cars.
>>> Since the companies that do are phasing out IC cars, we will have
>>> little choice in what we can purchase.
>>
>>
>> Yes and no, no one is compelled to buy a new car.
>
> Depends where you live, in Japan, the cost of keeping a car on the road
> is deliberately made more each year until after 7 years or so it is
> uneconomical to do so. That is why Japanese scrap yards look like
> Australian second hand car yards, and it is economical to ship older
> Japanese cars abroad.

I wasn't thinking about OS, plenty of old cars still on the roads in
Australia.
What happens in Japan is about Govt policy that forces people to but new
cars to prop up their car industry, not whether or not IC cars can last
30yrs.
I do agree though with your point about not needing to import oil, that
alone is probably the best argument in favour of EV's, the Middle East
going back to being a worthless desert and no longer holding the rest of
the world to ransom can only be a good thing.

--
Daryl

On 11/2/22 5:48 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 11/02/2022 5:31 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>
>> When people compare IC engine cars to electric, and conclude the EVs
>> have a higher environmental impact, they only consider the burning of
>> petrol in the IC car. They don't consider the energy used and
>> pollution produced in :
>>
>> Pumping the oil out of the ground.
>> Transporting the oil to the refinery.
>> Refining the oil into petrol (refineries are major energy users and
>> produce a lot of pollution)
>> Transporting the petrol by sea in ships burning heavy bunker oil
>> Transporting the petrol by truck out to the service station.
>>
>> Those may even exceed to problems caused burning the petrol in the IC
>> engines.
>
> They may do, but you'll never know.
>
>> Another bonus using electricity is that it doesn't need to be
>> imported, so helping the countries balance of trade.
>
> It would depend on how you generate your electricity.
>
>>> If you want to save the environment you would have less environmental
>>> impact driving some old IC car around for 30 years instead of buying
>>> a new EV every 5-10 years.
>>
>> Not many IC cars see out 30 years of service.
>
> You need to get out more. Head into some of the more "bogun" areas in
> any state and you'll find no end of 30 year old Commodores still in
> daily use. Ask our resident Wesrtrayan dickhead all about that :)
>
>
>
Still plenty of bogans willing to spend their cash on old Commodores,
son just sold his VX SS sedan for a very healthy profit.
He bought it a couple of years ago as an investment, had it detailed
including ceramic coating then just parked in his factory.

--
Daryl

On 11/2/2022 5:48 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 11/02/2022 5:31 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>
>> When people compare IC engine cars to electric, and conclude the EVs
>> have a higher environmental impact, they only consider the burning of
>> petrol in the IC car. They don't consider the energy used and
>> pollution produced in :
>>
>> Pumping the oil out of the ground.
>> Transporting the oil to the refinery.
>> Refining the oil into petrol (refineries are major energy users and
>> produce a lot of pollution)
>> Transporting the petrol by sea in ships burning heavy bunker oil
>> Transporting the petrol by truck out to the service station.
>>
>> Those may even exceed to problems caused burning the petrol in the IC
>> engines.
>
> They may do, but you'll never know.
>
>> Another bonus using electricity is that it doesn't need to be
>> imported, so helping the countries balance of trade.
>
> It would depend on how you generate your electricity.
>
>>> If you want to save the environment you would have less environmental
>>> impact driving some old IC car around for 30 years instead of buying
>>> a new EV every 5-10 years.
>>
>> Not many IC cars see out 30 years of service.
>
> You need to get out more. Head into some of the more "bogun" areas in
> any state and you'll find no end of 30 year old Commodores still in
> daily use. Ask our resident Wesrtrayan dickhead all about that :)
>
More pertinent, ask the Victorian dickhead up on Merrimu Mesa about
that. Plenty of bogunmobiles on the mesa and even a wrecking yard just
over the way to *source them* from.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 11/02/2022 7:27 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 11/2/22 5:40 pm, keithr0 wrote:

>> Depends where you live, in Japan, the cost of keeping a car on the
>> road is deliberately made more each year until after 7 years or so it
>> is uneconomical to do so. That is why Japanese scrap yards look like
>> Australian second hand car yards, and it is economical to ship older
>> Japanese cars abroad.
>
> I wasn't thinking about OS, plenty of old cars still on the roads in
> Australia.
> What happens in Japan is about Govt policy that forces people to but new
> cars to prop up their car industry, not whether or not IC cars can last
> 30yrs.

Yep.

> I do agree though with your point about not needing to import oil, that
> alone is probably the best argument in favour of EV's, the Middle East
> going back to being a worthless desert and no longer holding the rest of
> the world to ransom can only be a good thing.

To a point.

They'll take massive hit certainly, but there will always be a need for
oil. EV's will get a great many IC powered cars off the road, but heavy
transport, aviation and shipping is another story.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 11/2/2022 7:27 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 11/2/22 5:40 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>> On 10/02/2022 9:01 am, Daryl wrote:
>>> On 9/2/22 3:18 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>> On 9/02/2022 1:14 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>>>> On 9/02/2022 8:53 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/02/2022 8:57 am, Daryl wrote:
>>>>>>> On 9/2/22 5:24 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 9/02/2022 1:22 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/game-changing-4680-battery-goes-into-production/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> **Li-Ion batteries, as I have stated many times, is merely a
>>>>>>>> short term, interim step for BEVs. Al-Ion batteries will sweep
>>>>>>>> away all otehr battery technologies. Some VERY interesting
>>>>>>>> developments right here in OZ:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://graphenemg.com/energy-storage-solutions/aluminum-ion-battery/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Problem will be if and when that new battery tech comes on line
>>>>>>> what to do with all the old batteries, eventually someone will
>>>>>>> figure out how to recycle but until then old batteries will be as
>>>>>>> big problem than nuclear waste.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **We have to figure out what to do with ALL batteries. Li-Ion,
>>>>>> NiMH, NiCd, alkaline, etc. All are problematic. As big a problem
>>>>>> as nuclear waste? Not even remotely close. You are engaged in
>>>>>> either gross hyperbole or you have zero idea of just how dangerous
>>>>>> nuclear waste really is. Thing is this: Al-Ion batteries are far
>>>>>> less of a problem, compared to Li-Ion batteries. A point which
>>>>>> will accelerate their development.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> IMHO battery electric vehicles are no where near as "green" as
>>>>>>> their promoters would like us to believe.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **Depends. Burning fossil fuels is killing the planet. Disposing
>>>>>> of batteries is a local problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It doesn't "depend" at all. An enormous amount of resources go into
>>>>> building an electric vehicle, the electricity used to charge them
>>>>> has an environmental cost associated with it and then EV's have a
>>>>> relatively short viable service life and have significant
>>>>> environmental impact at end of life.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you want to save the environment you would have less
>>>>> environmental impact driving some old IC car around for 30 years
>>>>> instead of buying a new EV every 5-10 years.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> **Those comments are applicable TODAY and in Australia. They may not
>>>> be applicable in the near future and certainly not in all places. In
>>>> any case, it really doesn't matter. Australia doesn't build cars.
>>>> Since the companies that do are phasing out IC cars, we will have
>>>> little choice in what we can purchase.
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes and no, no one is compelled to buy a new car.
>>
>> Depends where you live, in Japan, the cost of keeping a car on the
>> road is deliberately made more each year until after 7 years or so it
>> is uneconomical to do so. That is why Japanese scrap yards look like
>> Australian second hand car yards, and it is economical to ship older
>> Japanese cars abroad.
>
> I wasn't thinking about OS, plenty of old cars still on the roads in
> Australia.

What happens OS may well happen here. anyway, there aren't as many old
cars on the roads as you may think.

Average age of all vehicles registered in Australia was 10.1 years,
unchanged since 2015. Tasmanian vehicles reported the oldest average age
at 12.8 years, whilst the Northern Territory and Australian Capital
Territory had the youngest fleet with an average age of 9.4 years.

Motor Vehicle Census, Australia, 31 Jan 2018

https://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/Lookup/9309.0Main+Features131%20Jan%202018?OpenDocument=

> What happens in Japan is about Govt policy that forces people to but new
> cars to prop up their car industry, not whether or not IC cars can last
> 30yrs.

IC engines are good for 10-15 years or an average of 200k kilometres.
When the engines are worn out, they generally have many other components
similarly worn out so repairs, and maintenance, will exceed the value of
the car. That alone makes a new car better value.

Case in point, my mate has been visiting us from Melbourne. He bought a
new car just before the Covid hit in 2019. Has a Mazda 2 to replace his
old Daewoo. Daewoo had 250K kilometres up and was getting expensive to
run and keep on the road though it has to be said it has been a reliable
beast. He came up here in 2016 in that car with no hassles. He tells me
the Mazda uses way less petrol than his Daewoo so he is saving money on
that alone. He didn't realise just how much less fuel his new car uses
until now since this 3,000K round trip is the first long run his new car
has had since those Victorian lockdowns.

> I do agree though with your point about not needing to import oil, that
> alone is probably the best argument in favour of EV's, the Middle East
> going back to being a worthless desert and no longer holding the rest of
> the world to ransom can only be a good thing.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 11/02/2022 7:34 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 11/2/22 5:48 pm, Noddy wrote:

>> You need to get out more. Head into some of the more "bogun" areas in
>> any state and you'll find no end of 30 year old Commodores still in
>> daily use. Ask our resident Wesrtrayan dickhead all about that :)
>>
>>
>>
> Still plenty of bogans willing to spend their cash on old Commodores,
> son just sold his VX SS sedan for a very healthy profit.
> He bought it a couple of years ago as an investment, had it detailed
> including ceramic coating then just parked in his factory.

Nice. A friend of mine has a VY SS and I've been trying to talk her into
getting rid of the cunt of a thing for *ages* but she won't let it go.
She's a V8 chick and just loves driving it, despite the heap of shit
falling apart around her.

She went to Sunshine high. Enough said :)

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 11/2/2022 9:09 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 11/02/2022 7:27 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 11/2/22 5:40 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>
>>> Depends where you live, in Japan, the cost of keeping a car on the
>>> road is deliberately made more each year until after 7 years or so it
>>> is uneconomical to do so. That is why Japanese scrap yards look like
>>> Australian second hand car yards, and it is economical to ship older
>>> Japanese cars abroad.
>>
>> I wasn't thinking about OS, plenty of old cars still on the roads in
>> Australia.
>> What happens in Japan is about Govt policy that forces people to but
>> new cars to prop up their car industry, not whether or not IC cars can
>> last 30yrs.
>
> Yep.
>
>> I do agree though with your point about not needing to import oil,
>> that alone is probably the best argument in favour of EV's, the Middle
>> East going back to being a worthless desert and no longer holding the
>> rest of the world to ransom can only be a good thing.
>
> To a point.
>
> They'll take massive hit certainly, but there will always be a need for
> oil. EV's will get a great many IC powered cars off the road, but heavy
> transport, aviation and shipping is another story.
>
You might be surprised to know that plans are already afoot to deal with
those issues. You really do need to get off that desolate mesa and get
out more.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 11/2/2022 9:11 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 11/02/2022 7:34 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 11/2/22 5:48 pm, Noddy wrote:
>
>>> You need to get out more. Head into some of the more "bogun" areas in
>>> any state and you'll find no end of 30 year old Commodores still in
>>> daily use. Ask our resident Wesrtrayan dickhead all about that :)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Still plenty of bogans willing to spend their cash on old Commodores,
>> son just sold his VX SS sedan for a very healthy profit.
>> He bought it a couple of years ago as an investment, had it detailed
>> including ceramic coating then just parked in his factory.
>
> Nice. A friend of mine has a VY SS and I've been trying to talk her into
> getting rid of the cunt of a thing for *ages* but she won't let it go.
> She's a V8 chick and just loves driving it, despite the heap of shit
> falling apart around her.
>
> She went to Sunshine high. Enough said :)
>
Sunshine High, that would have to be better than a failed year 9 at
Richmond Tech, would it not? Yeah, you're right, enough said!

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 11/02/2022 7:22 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
> On 10/02/2022 7:56 pm, Xeno wrote:
>> On 10/2/2022 3:57 pm, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>> On 10/02/2022 3:48 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>> On 10/02/2022 10:01 am, Daryl wrote:
>>>> > On 9/2/22 3:18 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>> >> On 9/02/2022 1:14 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>>> >>> On 9/02/2022 8:53 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>> >>>> On 9/02/2022 8:57 am, Daryl wrote:
>>>> >>>>> On 9/2/22 5:24 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>> >>>>>> On 9/02/2022 1:22 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/game-changing-4680-battery-goes-into-production/
>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> **Li-Ion batteries, as I have stated many times, is merely a
>>>> short term, interim step for BEVs. Al-Ion batteries will sweep away
>>>> all otehr battery technologies. Some VERY interesting developments
>>>> right here in OZ:
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> https://graphenemg.com/energy-storage-solutions/aluminum-ion-battery/
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Problem will be if and when that new battery tech comes on
>>>> line what to do with all the old batteries, eventually someone will
>>>> figure out how to recycle but until then old batteries will be as
>>>> big problem than nuclear waste.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> **We have to figure out what to do with ALL batteries. Li-Ion,
>>>> NiMH, NiCd, alkaline, etc. All are problematic. As big a problem as
>>>> nuclear waste? Not even remotely close. You are engaged in either
>>>> gross hyperbole or you have zero idea of just how dangerous nuclear
>>>> waste really is. Thing is this: Al-Ion batteries are far less of a
>>>> problem, compared to Li-Ion batteries. A point which will accelerate
>>>> their development.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>> IMHO battery electric vehicles are no where near as "green" as
>>>> their promoters would like us to believe.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> **Depends. Burning fossil fuels is killing the planet.
>>>> Disposing of batteries is a local problem.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> It doesn't "depend" at all. An enormous amount of resources go
>>>> into building an electric vehicle, the electricity used to charge
>>>> them has an environmental cost associated with it and then EV's have
>>>> a relatively short viable service life and have significant
>>>> environmental impact at end of life.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> If you want to save the environment you would have less
>>>> environmental impact driving some old IC car around for 30 years
>>>> instead of buying a new EV every 5-10 years.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> **Those comments are applicable TODAY and in Australia. They may
>>>> not be applicable in the near future and certainly not in all
>>>> places. In any case, it really doesn't matter. Australia doesn't
>>>> build cars. Since the companies that do are phasing out IC cars, we
>>>> will have little choice in what we can purchase.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Yes and no, no one is compelled to buy a new car.
>>>>
>>>> **Indeed. However, when fossil fuels cost (say) $10.00/L, those
>>>> people may think twice. Particularly in light of this estimate:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/may/09/electric-cars-will-be-cheaper-to-produce-than-fossil-fuel-vehicles-by-2027
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > My car is 20yrs old and done just over 200,000km, last year I only
>>>> did 6000km in it, at that rate it could still be reliable for
>>>> another 10yrs.
>>>>
>>>> **Sure. Same as my Nissan, except it is 21 years old. Nissan knew
>>>> how to build cars back then. However, when fuel costs me $10.00/L, I
>>>> may re-think keeping the old girl.
>>>>
>>>> > If Covid has done anything good its that fewer people are
>>>> commuting to work so cars on average are doing less klms so no need
>>>> to replace them as often, a well maintained car doing average kms
>>>> can easily last 30yrs.
>>>>
>>>> **Sure.
>>>>
>>>> > Funny thing is one of the few people I know who drives an EV
>>>> (Hyundai Kona) has only done 6000km in the last 18mths because he
>>>> now works from home, hardly worth the $60k it cost his employer.
>>>> > I know someone with an 11yr old Prius on its original battery, I
>>>> don't know how long they usually last but at 11yrs its at the end of
>>>> its life.
>>>> > There will come a time when people will need to replace their cars
>>>> but how far in the future that is is anyone's guess, my guess is its
>>>> at least 10yrs away.
>>>>
>>>> **Here's the thing:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.canstarblue.com.au/vehicles/average-car-price/
>>>>
>>>> And this:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/australia-average-vehicle-age-is-10-1-years/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The average age of Australian cars is 10.1 years.
>>>>
>>>> The average Australian car buyer keeps their car for 6.1 years. You
>>>> and I are outliers.
>>>>
>>>> > In one way EV's might be a good thing, it will force people to put
>>>> their cars in their garage to charge them instead of filling garages
>>>> with junk then parking cars on the street:-)
>>>>
>>>> **True. And, here's the thing. It's extremely likely that my next
>>>> car (replacing either the Nissan or the Suby) will be BEV or PHEV.
>>>> It is highly unlikely that I would consider buying a non-battery
>>>> equipped vehicle ever again. I doubt that I am alone in this view.
>>>>
>>>> Something like this looks like a good idea:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.drive.com.au/reviews/2022-mitsubishi-eclipse-cross-phev-review/?utm_campaign=syndication&utm_source=smh.com.au&utm_content=article_2&utm_medium=partner
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> For me, I would likely need to visit a servo twice a year.
>>>
>>>
>>> as electric cars become more popular will IC vehicles become cheaper?
>>>
>> They will become more expensive. Volume sales is what makes a product
>> cheaper and, as IC vehicle sales decline, prices will surely rise.
>>
>
> yes but supply and demand is what affects price mostly. if there's
> strong demand for IC vehicles, and limited stock, prices will remain
> high. but if demand is low, and stock is abundant, prices should fall.
> however, as production tapers off, more likely the former situation I
> guess.
>
>

Manufacturers are not going to be building cars that they can't sell so
you can bet demand will outstrip supply and prices will go up.

On 11/02/2022 1:24 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 11/02/2022 3:28 pm, Clocky wrote:
>> On 11/02/2022 11:31 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> On 11/02/2022 1:57 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>>> On 11/02/2022 8:39 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>> On 10/02/2022 9:35 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/2/22 3:48 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>> On 10/02/2022 10:01 am, Daryl wrote:
>>>>>>>  > On 9/2/22 3:18 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>  >> On 9/02/2022 1:14 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>>>  >>> On 9/02/2022 8:53 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>  >>>> On 9/02/2022 8:57 am, Daryl wrote:
>>>>>>>  >>>>> On 9/2/22 5:24 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>  >>>>>> On 9/02/2022 1:22 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>>>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/game-changing-4680-battery-goes-into-production/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  >>>>>>
>>>>>>>  >>>>>> **Li-Ion batteries, as I have stated many times, is
>>>>>>> merely a short term, interim step for BEVs. Al-Ion batteries will
>>>>>>> sweep away all otehr battery technologies. Some VERY interesting
>>>>>>> developments right here in OZ:
>>>>>>>  >>>>>>
>>>>>>>  >>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://graphenemg.com/energy-storage-solutions/aluminum-ion-battery/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>>>  >>>>> Problem will be if and when that new battery tech comes on
>>>>>>> line what to do with all the old batteries, eventually someone
>>>>>>> will figure out how to recycle but until then old batteries will
>>>>>>> be as big problem than nuclear waste.
>>>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>>>  >>>> **We have to figure out what to do with ALL batteries.
>>>>>>> Li-Ion, NiMH, NiCd, alkaline, etc. All are problematic. As big a
>>>>>>> problem as nuclear waste? Not even remotely close. You are
>>>>>>> engaged in either gross hyperbole or you have zero idea of just
>>>>>>> how dangerous nuclear waste really is. Thing is this: Al-Ion
>>>>>>> batteries are far less of a problem, compared to Li-Ion
>>>>>>> batteries. A point which will accelerate their development.
>>>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>>>  >>>>> IMHO battery electric vehicles are no where near as
>>>>>>> "green" as their promoters would like us to believe.
>>>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>>>  >>>> **Depends. Burning fossil fuels is killing the planet.
>>>>>>> Disposing of batteries is a local problem.
>>>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>>  >>> It doesn't "depend" at all. An enormous amount of resources
>>>>>>> go into building an electric vehicle, the electricity used to
>>>>>>> charge them has an environmental cost associated with it and then
>>>>>>> EV's have a relatively short viable service life and have
>>>>>>> significant environmental impact at end of life.
>>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>>  >>> If you want to save the environment you would have less
>>>>>>> environmental impact driving some old IC car around for 30 years
>>>>>>> instead of buying a new EV every 5-10 years.
>>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>>  >> **Those comments are applicable TODAY and in Australia. They
>>>>>>> may not be applicable in the near future and certainly not in all
>>>>>>> places. In any case, it really doesn't matter. Australia doesn't
>>>>>>> build cars. Since the companies that do are phasing out IC cars,
>>>>>>> we will have little choice in what we can purchase.
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  > Yes and no, no one is compelled to buy a new car.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> **Indeed. However, when fossil fuels cost (say) $10.00/L, those
>>>>>>> people may think twice. Particularly in light of this estimate:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/may/09/electric-cars-will-be-cheaper-to-produce-than-fossil-fuel-vehicles-by-2027
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  > My car is 20yrs old and done just over 200,000km, last year I
>>>>>>> only did 6000km in it, at that rate it could still be reliable
>>>>>>> for another 10yrs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> **Sure. Same as my Nissan, except it is 21 years old. Nissan knew
>>>>>>> how to build cars back then. However, when fuel costs me
>>>>>>> $10.00/L, I may re-think keeping the old girl.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  > If Covid has done anything good its that fewer people are
>>>>>>> commuting to work so cars on average are doing less klms so no
>>>>>>> need to replace them as often, a well maintained car doing
>>>>>>> average kms can easily last 30yrs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> **Sure.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  > Funny thing is one of the few people I know who drives an EV
>>>>>>> (Hyundai Kona) has only done 6000km in the last 18mths because he
>>>>>>> now works from home, hardly worth the $60k it cost his employer.
>>>>>>>  > I know someone with an 11yr old Prius on its original battery,
>>>>>>> I don't know how long they usually last but at 11yrs its at the
>>>>>>> end of its life.
>>>>>>>  > There will come a time when people will need to replace their
>>>>>>> cars but how far in the future that is is anyone's guess, my
>>>>>>> guess is its at least 10yrs away.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> **Here's the thing:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.canstarblue.com.au/vehicles/average-car-price/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And this:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/australia-average-vehicle-age-is-10-1-years/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The average age of Australian cars is 10.1 years.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The average Australian car buyer keeps their car for 6.1 years.
>>>>>>> You and I are outliers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  > In one way EV's might be a good thing, it will force people to
>>>>>>> put their cars in their garage to charge them instead of filling
>>>>>>> garages with junk then parking cars on the street:-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> **True. And, here's the thing. It's extremely likely that my next
>>>>>>> car (replacing either the Nissan or the Suby) will be BEV or
>>>>>>> PHEV. It is highly unlikely that I would consider buying a
>>>>>>> non-battery equipped vehicle ever again. I doubt that I am alone
>>>>>>> in this view.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Something like this looks like a good idea:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.drive.com.au/reviews/2022-mitsubishi-eclipse-cross-phev-review/?utm_campaign=syndication&utm_source=smh.com.au&utm_content=article_2&utm_medium=partner
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For me, I would likely need to visit a servo twice a year.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The cost of fuel is peanuts compared to the vehicles buy price and
>>>>>> depreciation.
>>>>>
>>>>> **That is true TODAY. In ten years, that may not be the case.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Wife's Golf is getting around 700km from its 50liter tank using it
>>>>>> for generally running around, 50/50 hwy city driving so compared
>>>>>> to other costs petrol isn't a big deal.
>>>>>
>>>>> **Fuel costs have never been a huge part of the expense for average
>>>>> to low kms drivers. Those who do high kms have a different equation
>>>>> to satisfy. Which is why taxis are almost all Camry hybrids.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Had to replace a fog/turn/ side lamp H11 globe today, price varied
>>>>>> from $40-60 depending on brand which IMHO is nuts.
>>>>>
>>>>> **That's VW for you. In truth, it's likely to be the case for all
>>>>> car importers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Alternatively, I purchased this brand of LED for the Stagea:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.banggood.com/NovSight-A500-N50-2PCS-70W-Car-LED-Headlights-Bulbs-H1-H3-H4-H7-H11-H13-9005-9006-9007-9012-Fog-Lamps-15000LM-6500K-p-1839965.html?cur_warehouse=CN&ID=518371&rmmds=search
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Very, VERY nice. Should last a very long time.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Maybe. Those look exactly the same as a local company retrofitted to
>>>> their fleet only to have to replace them within months due to high
>>>> LED driver failure rates because they could not dissipate heat quick
>>>> enough. Obviously it's application dependent so YMMV.
>>>
>>> **They may LOOK exactly the same, but I can assure you that there are
>>> differences.
>>
>>
>>
>> As I found, to my cost. The first set I purchased had a
>>> fault in one lamp. I ordered another, more expensive set. When they
>>> arrived, I put them on the bench and measured the light output on my
>>> light meter. The more expensive set cost about 30% more, were far
>>> better finished and constructed (copper heat sinking) and delivered
>>> around 70% more light! Well worth spending a few extra Bucks. Which I
>>> why I specified the Novsight brand. They are clearly a superior
>>> product. Critically, the ones to avoid are the ones that DON'T use an
>>> external driver. The ones that employ a built-in driver are
>>> problematic, because the fan has to cool and LED assembly and the
>>> driver.
>>
>> Anything with a fan is problematic out in the field. They just don't
>> last. As I said, YMMV greatly depending on application.
>>
>
> **AFAIK, most LED headlights use fans. Toyota and Subaru use fans. I can
> hear them running. I foresee more problems with LED headlights that
> DON'T use fans. LEDs have an upper operating limit of around 70 degrees
> C. That is damned difficult to manage with convection cooling.

On 11/2/22 9:11 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 11/02/2022 7:34 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 11/2/22 5:48 pm, Noddy wrote:
>
>>> You need to get out more. Head into some of the more "bogun" areas in
>>> any state and you'll find no end of 30 year old Commodores still in
>>> daily use. Ask our resident Wesrtrayan dickhead all about that :)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Still plenty of bogans willing to spend their cash on old Commodores,
>> son just sold his VX SS sedan for a very healthy profit.
>> He bought it a couple of years ago as an investment, had it detailed
>> including ceramic coating then just parked in his factory.
>
> Nice. A friend of mine has a VY SS and I've been trying to talk her into
> getting rid of the cunt of a thing for *ages* but she won't let it go.
> She's a V8 chick and just loves driving it, despite the heap of shit
> falling apart around her.
>
> She went to Sunshine high. Enough said :)
>
>
>
LOL, say no more:-)

--
Daryl