On 11/07/2021 9:19 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
> On 11/07/2021 12:53 am, Clocky wrote:
>> On 9/07/2021 6:19 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>> On 9/07/2021 7:25 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>> keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>> "keithr0" <user@account.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:ikpspfF97scU2@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>> On 9/07/2021 11:17 am, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 8/07/2021 4:14 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Xeno" <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:ikkma7F968rU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>>> On 7/7/21 1:07 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/07/2021 10:10 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 09:15:04 +1000, Yosemite Sam
>>>>>>>>>>>> <felix@invalid.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> M$ support for W10 will end in 2025, but literally millions
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of PC owners
>>>>>>>>>>>>> worldwide will be unable to upgrade to W11!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrH4zEBmztc
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lots more vids about it on youtube and articles on the web
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Microsoft has always made operating systems that require one
>>>>>>>>>>>> to buy
>>>>>>>>>>>> new computers, then they can sell another operating system
>>>>>>>>>>>> with it.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Never a upgrade though always a downgrade.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Best operating system was "Win 3.11", been downgraded ever
>>>>>>>>>>>> since.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> **You're dreaming. The PC operating system was OS/2, followed
>>>>>>>>>>> by Windows 2000. Windows XP was, basically, Win2k, with more
>>>>>>>>>>> automation.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yep, the only real difference was in the desktop environment.
>>>>>>>>>> The underlying XP OS was the same as Win2k.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Still, if OS/2 had made it in the marketplace.....
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> OS/2 died because it was marketed wrongly by *IBM*.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The problem wasn’t marketing, it was that you
>>>>>>>>> had to replace everything you already had.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> True but it was a combination of both.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> OS/2 continued on for years inside IBM professional products.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And they sold fuck all of those. It was always a dud market wise.
>>>>
>>>>> I don't think that you understand,
>>>>
>>>> Corse I know what that means.
>>>>
>>>>> by the professional market I mean mainframe and mini markets.
>>>>
>>>> Duh.
>>>>
>>>>> That's where IBM have always made the majority of their money.
>>>>
>>>> Still sweet fuck all with OS/2
>>>
>>> You have no idea, OS/2 was used in controllers on the machinery that
>>> make the commercial world work. The PC world is just the periphery of
>>> that and toys for amateurs.
>>
>>
>> LOL, OS/2 was an industry joke you clown.
>>
>
> iirc OS/2 was good on early PC's. apps ran in their own memory space
> which made it very stable.
>
>

Yeah but it was practically irrelevant except for some niche uses.

On 11/07/2021 12:52 pm, Yosemite Sam wrote:
> On 11/07/2021 1:08 pm, Xeno wrote:
>> On 11/7/21 11:19 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>> On 11/07/2021 12:53 am, Clocky wrote:
>>>> On 9/07/2021 6:19 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>>> On 9/07/2021 7:25 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>> keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>> "keithr0" <user@account.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:ikpspfF97scU2@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>> On 9/07/2021 11:17 am, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 8/07/2021 4:14 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Xeno" <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>> news:ikkma7F968rU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/7/21 1:07 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/07/2021 10:10 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 09:15:04 +1000, Yosemite Sam
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <felix@invalid.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> M$ support for W10 will end in 2025, but literally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> millions of PC owners
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worldwide will be unable to upgrade to W11!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrH4zEBmztc
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lots more vids about it on youtube and articles on the web
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Microsoft has always made operating systems that require
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one to buy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new computers, then they can sell another operating system
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Never a upgrade though always a downgrade.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best operating system was "Win 3.11", been downgraded ever
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> **You're dreaming. The PC operating system was OS/2,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> followed by Windows 2000. Windows XP was, basically, Win2k,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> with more automation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yep, the only real difference was in the desktop
>>>>>>>>>>>> environment. The underlying XP OS was the same as Win2k.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Still, if OS/2 had made it in the marketplace.....
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> OS/2 died because it was marketed wrongly by *IBM*.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The problem wasn’t marketing, it was that you
>>>>>>>>>>> had to replace everything you already had.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> True but it was a combination of both.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> OS/2 continued on for years inside IBM professional products.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And they sold fuck all of those. It was always a dud market wise.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't think that you understand,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Corse I know what that means.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> by the professional market I mean mainframe and mini markets.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Duh.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's where IBM have always made the majority of their money.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Still sweet fuck all with OS/2
>>>>>
>>>>> You have no idea, OS/2 was used in controllers on the machinery
>>>>> that make the commercial world work. The PC world is just the
>>>>> periphery of that and toys for amateurs.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> LOL, OS/2 was an industry joke you clown.
>>>>
>>>
>>> iirc OS/2 was good on early PC's. apps ran in their own memory space
>>> which made it very stable.
>>>
>>>
>> It died because of lack of general industry support. It wouldn't have
>> mattered how stable it was.
>>
>
> if it had won over windoze we would have better PC's now
>
>

If other systems had won over Wintel we would have had better computers
for a very long time.

On 11/07/2021 9:13 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
> On 11/07/2021 12:47 am, Clocky wrote:
>> On 9/07/2021 10:49 pm, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>> On 9/07/2021 6:46 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>>> On 9/07/2021 10:07 am, keithr0 wrote:
>>>>> On 9/07/2021 11:08 am, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>> On 7/07/2021 10:51 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>>>>> On 7/07/2021 12:05 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 5/07/2021 7:45 pm, jonz wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 7/5/2021 12:36 PM, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Petzl" <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:69j4eg5g3sla81qdnse5u75ll4m5ul5nd9@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 09:15:04 +1000, Yosemite Sam
>>>>>>>>>>> <felix@invalid.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> M$ support for W10 will end in 2025, but literally millions
>>>>>>>>>>>> of PC owners
>>>>>>>>>>>> worldwide will be unable to upgrade to W11!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrH4zEBmztc
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> lots more vids about it on youtube and articles on the web
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Microsoft has always made operating systems
>>>>>>>>>>> that require one to buy new computers,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> No they didn't with 7 and 10.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> then they can sell another operating system with it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> No they didn't with 10.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Never a upgrade though always a downgrade.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That's wrong too with 7 and 10.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Best operating system was "Win 3.11",
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Bullshit.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> been downgraded ever since.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Bullshit.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>   XP or 95 for me.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 95 was way too unstable.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> yes
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 98SE was rock solid and XP and 7 were great. The rest... meh.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> W10 is the best
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I hate it.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Why? Do you have some logical reason to do so?
>>>>
>>>> Software I like to run won't work and I don't like the UI.
>>>>
>>>> That's two sound reasons right there.
>>>
>>>
>>> I have four towers connected to one kb and monitor. two run w10, one
>>> w7 and XP, and one 98. I switch between them electronically. :)
>>>
>>
>> Cool. I have a Win 10 laptop,
>
>
> I also have a win10 laptop, and another winXP stand alone PC.
>
>
>> main PC runs Win 7, and a Win 98 laptop and tower. The Win 98 laptop
>> runs diagnostic software and workshop manuals for older cars and the
>> '98 desktop is primarily used to read/write/archive various floppy
>> disks for emulation use and creating real floppies for vintage
>> computers like TRS-80 Model I/III, Amstrad and Microbee etc.
>
>
> I have 3.5" floppy drives in 3 PC's and a 5.25" floppy in the win98 PC.
> also Iomega drive in one PC.
>

So you still kept quite a bit. I thought you sold it all to Ian ;-)

On 9/07/2021 6:13 pm, keithr0 wrote:
> On 9/07/2021 6:46 pm, Clocky wrote:
>> On 9/07/2021 10:07 am, keithr0 wrote:
>>> On 9/07/2021 11:08 am, Clocky wrote:
>>>> On 7/07/2021 10:51 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>>> On 7/07/2021 12:05 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>> On 5/07/2021 7:45 pm, jonz wrote:
>>>>>>> On 7/5/2021 12:36 PM, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Petzl" <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:69j4eg5g3sla81qdnse5u75ll4m5ul5nd9@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 09:15:04 +1000, Yosemite Sam
>>>>>>>>> <felix@invalid.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> M$ support for W10 will end in 2025, but literally millions of
>>>>>>>>>> PC owners
>>>>>>>>>> worldwide will be unable to upgrade to W11!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrH4zEBmztc
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> lots more vids about it on youtube and articles on the web
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Microsoft has always made operating systems
>>>>>>>>> that require one to buy new computers,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No they didn't with 7 and 10.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> then they can sell another operating system with it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No they didn't with 10.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Never a upgrade though always a downgrade.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's wrong too with 7 and 10.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Best operating system was "Win 3.11",
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bullshit.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> been downgraded ever since.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bullshit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   XP or 95 for me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 95 was way too unstable.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> yes
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> 98SE was rock solid and XP and 7 were great. The rest... meh.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> W10 is the best
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I hate it.
>>>>
>>> Why? Do you have some logical reason to do so?
>>
>> Software I like to run won't work and I don't like the UI.
>>
>> That's two sound reasons right there.
>
> Hate is an emotive word, you don't want to use W10, that's not reason to
> "Hate" it.

Ok, I really dislike it and don't care for it one little bit.
Better?

On 11/07/2021 12:49 am, Clocky wrote:
> On 9/07/2021 6:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>> On 9/07/2021 6:47 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>> On 9/07/2021 11:05 am, keithr0 wrote:
>>>> On 9/07/2021 11:10 am, Clocky wrote:
>>>>> On 7/07/2021 2:20 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>>>> On 7/07/2021 12:50 pm, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>>>>> On 7/07/2021 12:03 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 5/07/2021 8:10 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 09:15:04 +1000, Yosemite Sam
>>>>>>>>> <felix@invalid.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> M$ support for W10 will end in 2025, but literally millions of
>>>>>>>>>> PC owners
>>>>>>>>>> worldwide will be unable to upgrade to W11!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrH4zEBmztc
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> lots more vids about it on youtube and articles on the web
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Microsoft has always made operating systems that require one to
>>>>>>>>> buy
>>>>>>>>> new computers, then they can sell another operating system with
>>>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>>> Never a upgrade though always a downgrade.
>>>>>>>>> Best operating system was "Win 3.11", been downgraded ever since.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Win 3.11 was shit. Since Win98SE Windows has been great. XP
>>>>>>>> probably the best, Win 7 next.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> win3.1 was M$'s effort to emulate the Macintosh GUI
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, it was an upgrade to Windows 2.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Windows 3.0 was the upgrade to Windows 2. Followed by 3.1 and WFW3.11.
>>>>>
>>>>> They were all shit.
>>>>
>>>> Win 3 was the first usable version, WFW was quite decent for its
>>>> day. I used it to set up a small network in our office, and used its
>>>> scripting to make a lot of administrative tasks easier and quicker.
>>>
>>> WFW was the only really useful one but it was still unstable.
>>
>> It was stable enough to run a small organisation on it, that's all I
>> required.
>
>
> You couldn't have been doing anything much if that blue screen didn't
> appear on a regular basis.

No problems, I was the manager of a group of about 12 people doing the
hardware maintenance of Westpacs mainframe systems. Not a huge
organisation but not trivial either. I guess that it helped that we all
knew what we were doing.

On 11/07/2021 1:08 pm, Xeno wrote:
> On 11/7/21 11:19 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>> On 11/07/2021 12:53 am, Clocky wrote:
>>> On 9/07/2021 6:19 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>> On 9/07/2021 7:25 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>> keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>> "keithr0" <user@account.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:ikpspfF97scU2@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>> On 9/07/2021 11:17 am, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 8/07/2021 4:14 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Xeno" <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:ikkma7F968rU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/7/21 1:07 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/07/2021 10:10 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 09:15:04 +1000, Yosemite Sam
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <felix@invalid.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> M$ support for W10 will end in 2025, but literally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> millions of PC owners
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worldwide will be unable to upgrade to W11!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrH4zEBmztc
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lots more vids about it on youtube and articles on the web
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Microsoft has always made operating systems that require
>>>>>>>>>>>>> one to buy
>>>>>>>>>>>>> new computers, then they can sell another operating system
>>>>>>>>>>>>> with it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Never a upgrade though always a downgrade.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best operating system was "Win 3.11", been downgraded ever
>>>>>>>>>>>>> since.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> **You're dreaming. The PC operating system was OS/2,
>>>>>>>>>>>> followed by Windows 2000. Windows XP was, basically, Win2k,
>>>>>>>>>>>> with more automation.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Yep, the only real difference was in the desktop environment.
>>>>>>>>>>> The underlying XP OS was the same as Win2k.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Still, if OS/2 had made it in the marketplace.....
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> OS/2 died because it was marketed wrongly by *IBM*.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The problem wasn’t marketing, it was that you
>>>>>>>>>> had to replace everything you already had.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> True but it was a combination of both.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> OS/2 continued on for years inside IBM professional products.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And they sold fuck all of those. It was always a dud market wise.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't think that you understand,
>>>>>
>>>>> Corse I know what that means.
>>>>>
>>>>>> by the professional market I mean mainframe and mini markets.
>>>>>
>>>>> Duh.
>>>>>
>>>>>> That's where IBM have always made the majority of their money.
>>>>>
>>>>> Still sweet fuck all with OS/2
>>>>
>>>> You have no idea, OS/2 was used in controllers on the machinery that
>>>> make the commercial world work. The PC world is just the periphery
>>>> of that and toys for amateurs.
>>>
>>>
>>> LOL, OS/2 was an industry joke you clown.
>>>
>>
>> iirc OS/2 was good on early PC's. apps ran in their own memory space
>> which made it very stable.
>>
>>
> It died because of lack of general industry support. It wouldn't have
> mattered how stable it was.
>
Like I have said, it didn't die, it carried on inside IBMs professional
products. E.G. it was used in micro-channel PCs as the controllers for
the later 3890 cheque sorters and IBMs rather weird automatic tape
library that used a Fanuc industrial robot (Telstra had one). It was
also used in Fujitsu ATMs.

Probably many other applications as well, its just that a lot of people
here only know the PC side of the industry that would appear to include
you and definitely includes Speed.

On 11/07/2021 3:32 pm, Clocky wrote:
> On 11/07/2021 12:52 pm, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>> On 11/07/2021 1:08 pm, Xeno wrote:
>>> On 11/7/21 11:19 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>> On 11/07/2021 12:53 am, Clocky wrote:
>>>>> On 9/07/2021 6:19 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/07/2021 7:25 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>> keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
>>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>>> "keithr0" <user@account.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:ikpspfF97scU2@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>>> On 9/07/2021 11:17 am, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/07/2021 4:14 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Xeno" <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>> news:ikkma7F968rU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/7/21 1:07 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/07/2021 10:10 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 09:15:04 +1000, Yosemite Sam
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <felix@invalid.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> M$ support for W10 will end in 2025, but literally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> millions of PC owners
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worldwide will be unable to upgrade to W11!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrH4zEBmztc
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lots more vids about it on youtube and articles on the web
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Microsoft has always made operating systems that require
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one to buy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new computers, then they can sell another operating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> system with it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Never a upgrade though always a downgrade.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best operating system was "Win 3.11", been downgraded
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ever since.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> **You're dreaming. The PC operating system was OS/2,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> followed by Windows 2000. Windows XP was, basically,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Win2k, with more automation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yep, the only real difference was in the desktop
>>>>>>>>>>>>> environment. The underlying XP OS was the same as Win2k.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Still, if OS/2 had made it in the marketplace.....
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> OS/2 died because it was marketed wrongly by *IBM*.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The problem wasn’t marketing, it was that you
>>>>>>>>>>>> had to replace everything you already had.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> True but it was a combination of both.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> OS/2 continued on for years inside IBM professional products.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And they sold fuck all of those. It was always a dud market wise.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't think that you understand,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Corse I know what that means.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> by the professional market I mean mainframe and mini markets.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Duh.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's where IBM have always made the majority of their money.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Still sweet fuck all with OS/2
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You have no idea, OS/2 was used in controllers on the machinery
>>>>>> that make the commercial world work. The PC world is just the
>>>>>> periphery of that and toys for amateurs.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> LOL, OS/2 was an industry joke you clown.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> iirc OS/2 was good on early PC's. apps ran in their own memory space
>>>> which made it very stable.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> It died because of lack of general industry support. It wouldn't have
>>> mattered how stable it was.
>>>
>>
>> if it had won over windoze we would have better PC's now
>>
>>
>
> If other systems had won over Wintel we would have had better computers
> for a very long time.

Which architecture do you think would have been better?

On 11/7/21 5:36 pm, keithr0 wrote:
> On 11/07/2021 1:08 pm, Xeno wrote:
>> On 11/7/21 11:19 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>> On 11/07/2021 12:53 am, Clocky wrote:
>>>> On 9/07/2021 6:19 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>>> On 9/07/2021 7:25 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>> keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>> "keithr0" <user@account.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:ikpspfF97scU2@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>> On 9/07/2021 11:17 am, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 8/07/2021 4:14 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Xeno" <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>> news:ikkma7F968rU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/7/21 1:07 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/07/2021 10:10 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 09:15:04 +1000, Yosemite Sam
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <felix@invalid.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> M$ support for W10 will end in 2025, but literally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> millions of PC owners
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worldwide will be unable to upgrade to W11!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrH4zEBmztc
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lots more vids about it on youtube and articles on the web
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Microsoft has always made operating systems that require
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one to buy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new computers, then they can sell another operating system
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Never a upgrade though always a downgrade.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best operating system was "Win 3.11", been downgraded ever
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> **You're dreaming. The PC operating system was OS/2,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> followed by Windows 2000. Windows XP was, basically, Win2k,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> with more automation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yep, the only real difference was in the desktop
>>>>>>>>>>>> environment. The underlying XP OS was the same as Win2k.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Still, if OS/2 had made it in the marketplace.....
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> OS/2 died because it was marketed wrongly by *IBM*.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The problem wasn’t marketing, it was that you
>>>>>>>>>>> had to replace everything you already had.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> True but it was a combination of both.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> OS/2 continued on for years inside IBM professional products.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And they sold fuck all of those. It was always a dud market wise.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't think that you understand,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Corse I know what that means.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> by the professional market I mean mainframe and mini markets.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Duh.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's where IBM have always made the majority of their money.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Still sweet fuck all with OS/2
>>>>>
>>>>> You have no idea, OS/2 was used in controllers on the machinery
>>>>> that make the commercial world work. The PC world is just the
>>>>> periphery of that and toys for amateurs.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> LOL, OS/2 was an industry joke you clown.
>>>>
>>>
>>> iirc OS/2 was good on early PC's. apps ran in their own memory space
>>> which made it very stable.
>>>
>>>
>> It died because of lack of general industry support. It wouldn't have
>> mattered how stable it was.
>>
> Like I have said, it didn't die, it carried on inside IBMs professional
> products. E.G. it was used in micro-channel PCs as the controllers for
> the later 3890 cheque sorters and IBMs rather weird automatic tape
> library that used a Fanuc industrial robot (Telstra had one). It was
> also used in Fujitsu ATMs.
>
> Probably many other applications as well, its just that a lot of people
> here only know the PC side of the industry that would appear to include
> you and definitely includes Speed.

Me definitely. Closest I have been to a Mini was the PDP11 at the
college. As I have stated often, my only involvement beyond desktop PCs
was the networking thereof at the college. I have never professed to
have involvement beyond that. My point was, it was an attempt by IBM to
wrest back control of the desktop PC market - and it failed. That harks
back to when IBM released the PS/2 with MCA and supplied with the OS2
operating system. If you recall, IBM was trying to prevent a
proliferation of clones using MCA and all they ended up achieving was to
limit the proliferation of MCA into the desktop market. I am not arguing
whether OS2 and MCA was superior to the Microsoft OS on ISA based PCs,
just making the point that OS2 never achieved sufficient penetration.
That's why it ended up *only* in the niche areas of which you wax lyrical.

--

Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 11/7/21 2:52 pm, Yosemite Sam wrote:
> On 11/07/2021 1:08 pm, Xeno wrote:
>> On 11/7/21 11:19 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>> On 11/07/2021 12:53 am, Clocky wrote:
>>>> On 9/07/2021 6:19 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>>> On 9/07/2021 7:25 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>> keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>> "keithr0" <user@account.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:ikpspfF97scU2@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>> On 9/07/2021 11:17 am, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 8/07/2021 4:14 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Xeno" <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>> news:ikkma7F968rU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/7/21 1:07 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/07/2021 10:10 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 09:15:04 +1000, Yosemite Sam
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <felix@invalid.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> M$ support for W10 will end in 2025, but literally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> millions of PC owners
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worldwide will be unable to upgrade to W11!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrH4zEBmztc
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lots more vids about it on youtube and articles on the web
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Microsoft has always made operating systems that require
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one to buy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new computers, then they can sell another operating system
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Never a upgrade though always a downgrade.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best operating system was "Win 3.11", been downgraded ever
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> **You're dreaming. The PC operating system was OS/2,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> followed by Windows 2000. Windows XP was, basically, Win2k,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> with more automation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yep, the only real difference was in the desktop
>>>>>>>>>>>> environment. The underlying XP OS was the same as Win2k.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Still, if OS/2 had made it in the marketplace.....
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> OS/2 died because it was marketed wrongly by *IBM*.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The problem wasn’t marketing, it was that you
>>>>>>>>>>> had to replace everything you already had.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> True but it was a combination of both.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> OS/2 continued on for years inside IBM professional products.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And they sold fuck all of those. It was always a dud market wise.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't think that you understand,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Corse I know what that means.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> by the professional market I mean mainframe and mini markets.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Duh.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's where IBM have always made the majority of their money.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Still sweet fuck all with OS/2
>>>>>
>>>>> You have no idea, OS/2 was used in controllers on the machinery
>>>>> that make the commercial world work. The PC world is just the
>>>>> periphery of that and toys for amateurs.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> LOL, OS/2 was an industry joke you clown.
>>>>
>>>
>>> iirc OS/2 was good on early PC's. apps ran in their own memory space
>>> which made it very stable.
>>>
>>>
>> It died because of lack of general industry support. It wouldn't have
>> mattered how stable it was.
>>
>
> if it had won over windoze we would have better PC's now
>
>
Um, I doubt it because IBM wanted to wrest *control* of the PC market
back from clones. Remember the IBM PS/2? Nice computers compared to the
run of the mill ISA based PCs of the time but IBM's efforts to exercise
control ensured that the PS/2 and the MCA architecture never
proliferated widely in the desktop PC market.

--

Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 11/7/21 3:30 pm, Clocky wrote:
> On 11/07/2021 9:19 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>> On 11/07/2021 12:53 am, Clocky wrote:
>>> On 9/07/2021 6:19 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>> On 9/07/2021 7:25 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>> keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>> "keithr0" <user@account.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:ikpspfF97scU2@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>> On 9/07/2021 11:17 am, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 8/07/2021 4:14 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Xeno" <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:ikkma7F968rU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/7/21 1:07 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/07/2021 10:10 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 09:15:04 +1000, Yosemite Sam
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <felix@invalid.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> M$ support for W10 will end in 2025, but literally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> millions of PC owners
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worldwide will be unable to upgrade to W11!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrH4zEBmztc
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lots more vids about it on youtube and articles on the web
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Microsoft has always made operating systems that require
>>>>>>>>>>>>> one to buy
>>>>>>>>>>>>> new computers, then they can sell another operating system
>>>>>>>>>>>>> with it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Never a upgrade though always a downgrade.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best operating system was "Win 3.11", been downgraded ever
>>>>>>>>>>>>> since.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> **You're dreaming. The PC operating system was OS/2,
>>>>>>>>>>>> followed by Windows 2000. Windows XP was, basically, Win2k,
>>>>>>>>>>>> with more automation.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Yep, the only real difference was in the desktop environment.
>>>>>>>>>>> The underlying XP OS was the same as Win2k.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Still, if OS/2 had made it in the marketplace.....
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> OS/2 died because it was marketed wrongly by *IBM*.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The problem wasn’t marketing, it was that you
>>>>>>>>>> had to replace everything you already had.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> True but it was a combination of both.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> OS/2 continued on for years inside IBM professional products.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And they sold fuck all of those. It was always a dud market wise.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't think that you understand,
>>>>>
>>>>> Corse I know what that means.
>>>>>
>>>>>> by the professional market I mean mainframe and mini markets.
>>>>>
>>>>> Duh.
>>>>>
>>>>>> That's where IBM have always made the majority of their money.
>>>>>
>>>>> Still sweet fuck all with OS/2
>>>>
>>>> You have no idea, OS/2 was used in controllers on the machinery that
>>>> make the commercial world work. The PC world is just the periphery
>>>> of that and toys for amateurs.
>>>
>>>
>>> LOL, OS/2 was an industry joke you clown.
>>>
>>
>> iirc OS/2 was good on early PC's. apps ran in their own memory space
>> which made it very stable.
>>
>>
>
> Yeah but it was practically irrelevant except for some niche uses.

Indeed! My college had a heap of *genuine* IBM PCs but moved away from
IBM after the PS/2 and OS2 and bought ISA and, later, PCI clones. I
suspect the college was not alone in that as the PS/2 didn't last long.

--

Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 11/7/21 3:35 pm, Clocky wrote:
> On 11/07/2021 9:13 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>> On 11/07/2021 12:47 am, Clocky wrote:
>>> On 9/07/2021 10:49 pm, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>> On 9/07/2021 6:46 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>>>> On 9/07/2021 10:07 am, keithr0 wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/07/2021 11:08 am, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>>> On 7/07/2021 10:51 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 7/07/2021 12:05 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 5/07/2021 7:45 pm, jonz wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 7/5/2021 12:36 PM, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Petzl" <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>> news:69j4eg5g3sla81qdnse5u75ll4m5ul5nd9@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 09:15:04 +1000, Yosemite Sam
>>>>>>>>>>>> <felix@invalid.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> M$ support for W10 will end in 2025, but literally millions
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of PC owners
>>>>>>>>>>>>> worldwide will be unable to upgrade to W11!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrH4zEBmztc
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lots more vids about it on youtube and articles on the web
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Microsoft has always made operating systems
>>>>>>>>>>>> that require one to buy new computers,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> No they didn't with 7 and 10.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> then they can sell another operating system with it.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> No they didn't with 10.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Never a upgrade though always a downgrade.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That's wrong too with 7 and 10.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Best operating system was "Win 3.11",
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Bullshit.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> been downgraded ever since.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Bullshit.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>   XP or 95 for me.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 95 was way too unstable.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> yes
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 98SE was rock solid and XP and 7 were great. The rest... meh.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> W10 is the best
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I hate it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why? Do you have some logical reason to do so?
>>>>>
>>>>> Software I like to run won't work and I don't like the UI.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's two sound reasons right there.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have four towers connected to one kb and monitor. two run w10, one
>>>> w7 and XP, and one 98. I switch between them electronically. :)
>>>>
>>>
>>> Cool. I have a Win 10 laptop,
>>
>>
>> I also have a win10 laptop, and another winXP stand alone PC.
>>
>>
>>> main PC runs Win 7, and a Win 98 laptop and tower. The Win 98 laptop
>>> runs diagnostic software and workshop manuals for older cars and the
>>> '98 desktop is primarily used to read/write/archive various floppy
>>> disks for emulation use and creating real floppies for vintage
>>> computers like TRS-80 Model I/III, Amstrad and Microbee etc.
>>
>>
>> I have 3.5" floppy drives in 3 PC's and a 5.25" floppy in the win98
>> PC. also Iomega drive in one PC.
>>
>
> So you still kept quite a bit. I thought you sold it all to Ian ;-)
>
I have quite a few bits of Iomega stuff laying around. Must take stock
and flog it off. Have a few 250 and 750 Meg drives along with quite a
few disks for same. Haven't been used in yonks. Think a few of the PCs
have an internal 250 Meg Zip drive in them.

--

Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 11/07/2021 3:36 pm, keithr0 wrote:
> On 11/07/2021 1:08 pm, Xeno wrote:
>> On 11/7/21 11:19 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>> On 11/07/2021 12:53 am, Clocky wrote:
>>>> On 9/07/2021 6:19 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>>> On 9/07/2021 7:25 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>> keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>> "keithr0" <user@account.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:ikpspfF97scU2@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>> On 9/07/2021 11:17 am, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 8/07/2021 4:14 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Xeno" <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>> news:ikkma7F968rU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/7/21 1:07 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/07/2021 10:10 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 09:15:04 +1000, Yosemite Sam
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <felix@invalid.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> M$ support for W10 will end in 2025, but literally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> millions of PC owners
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worldwide will be unable to upgrade to W11!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrH4zEBmztc
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lots more vids about it on youtube and articles on the web
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Microsoft has always made operating systems that require
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one to buy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new computers, then they can sell another operating system
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Never a upgrade though always a downgrade.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best operating system was "Win 3.11", been downgraded ever
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> **You're dreaming. The PC operating system was OS/2,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> followed by Windows 2000. Windows XP was, basically, Win2k,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> with more automation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yep, the only real difference was in the desktop
>>>>>>>>>>>> environment. The underlying XP OS was the same as Win2k.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Still, if OS/2 had made it in the marketplace.....
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> OS/2 died because it was marketed wrongly by *IBM*.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The problem wasn’t marketing, it was that you
>>>>>>>>>>> had to replace everything you already had.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> True but it was a combination of both.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> OS/2 continued on for years inside IBM professional products.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And they sold fuck all of those. It was always a dud market wise.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't think that you understand,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Corse I know what that means.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> by the professional market I mean mainframe and mini markets.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Duh.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's where IBM have always made the majority of their money.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Still sweet fuck all with OS/2
>>>>>
>>>>> You have no idea, OS/2 was used in controllers on the machinery
>>>>> that make the commercial world work. The PC world is just the
>>>>> periphery of that and toys for amateurs.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> LOL, OS/2 was an industry joke you clown.
>>>>
>>>
>>> iirc OS/2 was good on early PC's. apps ran in their own memory space
>>> which made it very stable.
>>>
>>>
>> It died because of lack of general industry support. It wouldn't have
>> mattered how stable it was.
>>
> Like I have said, it didn't die, it carried on inside IBMs professional
> products. E.G. it was used in micro-channel PCs as the controllers for
> the later 3890 cheque sorters and IBMs rather weird automatic tape
> library that used a Fanuc industrial robot (Telstra had one). It was
> also used in Fujitsu ATMs.
>
> Probably many other applications as well, its just that a lot of people
> here only know the PC side of the industry that would appear to include
> you and definitely includes Speed.

No matter how you try and dress it up, it ended up used in a few niche
applications. That's all it had and not a marker for success.

On 11/07/2021 4:17 pm, Xeno wrote:
> On 11/7/21 3:30 pm, Clocky wrote:
>> On 11/07/2021 9:19 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>> On 11/07/2021 12:53 am, Clocky wrote:
>>>> On 9/07/2021 6:19 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>>> On 9/07/2021 7:25 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>> keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>> "keithr0" <user@account.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:ikpspfF97scU2@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>> On 9/07/2021 11:17 am, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 8/07/2021 4:14 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Xeno" <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>> news:ikkma7F968rU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/7/21 1:07 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/07/2021 10:10 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 09:15:04 +1000, Yosemite Sam
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <felix@invalid.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> M$ support for W10 will end in 2025, but literally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> millions of PC owners
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worldwide will be unable to upgrade to W11!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrH4zEBmztc
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lots more vids about it on youtube and articles on the web
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Microsoft has always made operating systems that require
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one to buy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new computers, then they can sell another operating system
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Never a upgrade though always a downgrade.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best operating system was "Win 3.11", been downgraded ever
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> **You're dreaming. The PC operating system was OS/2,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> followed by Windows 2000. Windows XP was, basically, Win2k,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> with more automation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yep, the only real difference was in the desktop
>>>>>>>>>>>> environment. The underlying XP OS was the same as Win2k.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Still, if OS/2 had made it in the marketplace.....
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> OS/2 died because it was marketed wrongly by *IBM*.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The problem wasn’t marketing, it was that you
>>>>>>>>>>> had to replace everything you already had.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> True but it was a combination of both.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> OS/2 continued on for years inside IBM professional products.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And they sold fuck all of those. It was always a dud market wise.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't think that you understand,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Corse I know what that means.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> by the professional market I mean mainframe and mini markets.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Duh.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's where IBM have always made the majority of their money.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Still sweet fuck all with OS/2
>>>>>
>>>>> You have no idea, OS/2 was used in controllers on the machinery
>>>>> that make the commercial world work. The PC world is just the
>>>>> periphery of that and toys for amateurs.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> LOL, OS/2 was an industry joke you clown.
>>>>
>>>
>>> iirc OS/2 was good on early PC's. apps ran in their own memory space
>>> which made it very stable.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Yeah but it was practically irrelevant except for some niche uses.
>
> Indeed! My college had a heap of *genuine* IBM PCs but moved away from
> IBM after the PS/2 and OS2 and bought ISA and, later, PCI clones. I
> suspect the college was not alone in that as the PS/2 didn't last long.
>

It was a desperate attempt to wrestle back control of the hardware by
IBM long after that horse had bolted.

It failed and OS/2 with it.

On 11/07/2021 3:35 pm, Clocky wrote:
> On 11/07/2021 9:13 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>> On 11/07/2021 12:47 am, Clocky wrote:
>>> On 9/07/2021 10:49 pm, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>> On 9/07/2021 6:46 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>>>> On 9/07/2021 10:07 am, keithr0 wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/07/2021 11:08 am, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>>> On 7/07/2021 10:51 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 7/07/2021 12:05 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 5/07/2021 7:45 pm, jonz wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 7/5/2021 12:36 PM, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Petzl" <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>> news:69j4eg5g3sla81qdnse5u75ll4m5ul5nd9@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 09:15:04 +1000, Yosemite Sam
>>>>>>>>>>>> <felix@invalid.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> M$ support for W10 will end in 2025, but literally
>>>>>>>>>>>>> millions of PC owners
>>>>>>>>>>>>> worldwide will be unable to upgrade to W11!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrH4zEBmztc
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lots more vids about it on youtube and articles on the web
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Microsoft has always made operating systems
>>>>>>>>>>>> that require one to buy new computers,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> No they didn't with 7 and 10.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> then they can sell another operating system with it.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> No they didn't with 10.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Never a upgrade though always a downgrade.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That's wrong too with 7 and 10.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Best operating system was "Win 3.11",
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Bullshit.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> been downgraded ever since.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Bullshit.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>   XP or 95 for me.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 95 was way too unstable.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> yes
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 98SE was rock solid and XP and 7 were great. The rest... meh.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> W10 is the best
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I hate it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why? Do you have some logical reason to do so?
>>>>>
>>>>> Software I like to run won't work and I don't like the UI.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's two sound reasons right there.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have four towers connected to one kb and monitor. two run w10,
>>>> one w7 and XP, and one 98. I switch between them electronically. :)
>>>>
>>>
>>> Cool. I have a Win 10 laptop,
>>
>>
>> I also have a win10 laptop, and another winXP stand alone PC.
>>
>>
>>> main PC runs Win 7, and a Win 98 laptop and tower. The Win 98 laptop
>>> runs diagnostic software and workshop manuals for older cars and the
>>> '98 desktop is primarily used to read/write/archive various floppy
>>> disks for emulation use and creating real floppies for vintage
>>> computers like TRS-80 Model I/III, Amstrad and Microbee etc.
>>
>>
>> I have 3.5" floppy drives in 3 PC's and a 5.25" floppy in the win98
>> PC. also Iomega drive in one PC.
>>
>
> So you still kept quite a bit. I thought you sold it all to Ian ;-)
>

it was parts that I sold him. and my original mac. he plugged it in to
test it and it exploded. he said that was normal, lol. (just the power
supply)

--
"A mans got to know his limitations"
- clint Eastwood as Dirty Harry

On 11/07/2021 6:11 pm, Xeno wrote:
> On 11/7/21 5:36 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>> On 11/07/2021 1:08 pm, Xeno wrote:
>>> On 11/7/21 11:19 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>> On 11/07/2021 12:53 am, Clocky wrote:
>>>>> On 9/07/2021 6:19 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/07/2021 7:25 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>> keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
>>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>>> "keithr0" <user@account.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:ikpspfF97scU2@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>>> On 9/07/2021 11:17 am, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/07/2021 4:14 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Xeno" <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>> news:ikkma7F968rU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/7/21 1:07 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/07/2021 10:10 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 09:15:04 +1000, Yosemite Sam
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <felix@invalid.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> M$ support for W10 will end in 2025, but literally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> millions of PC owners
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worldwide will be unable to upgrade to W11!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrH4zEBmztc
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lots more vids about it on youtube and articles on the web
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Microsoft has always made operating systems that require
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one to buy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new computers, then they can sell another operating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> system with it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Never a upgrade though always a downgrade.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best operating system was "Win 3.11", been downgraded
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ever since.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> **You're dreaming. The PC operating system was OS/2,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> followed by Windows 2000. Windows XP was, basically,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Win2k, with more automation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yep, the only real difference was in the desktop
>>>>>>>>>>>>> environment. The underlying XP OS was the same as Win2k.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Still, if OS/2 had made it in the marketplace.....
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> OS/2 died because it was marketed wrongly by *IBM*.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The problem wasn’t marketing, it was that you
>>>>>>>>>>>> had to replace everything you already had.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> True but it was a combination of both.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> OS/2 continued on for years inside IBM professional products.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And they sold fuck all of those. It was always a dud market wise.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't think that you understand,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Corse I know what that means.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> by the professional market I mean mainframe and mini markets.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Duh.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's where IBM have always made the majority of their money.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Still sweet fuck all with OS/2
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You have no idea, OS/2 was used in controllers on the machinery
>>>>>> that make the commercial world work. The PC world is just the
>>>>>> periphery of that and toys for amateurs.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> LOL, OS/2 was an industry joke you clown.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> iirc OS/2 was good on early PC's. apps ran in their own memory space
>>>> which made it very stable.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> It died because of lack of general industry support. It wouldn't have
>>> mattered how stable it was.
>>>
>> Like I have said, it didn't die, it carried on inside IBMs
>> professional products. E.G. it was used in micro-channel PCs as the
>> controllers for the later 3890 cheque sorters and IBMs rather weird
>> automatic tape library that used a Fanuc industrial robot (Telstra had
>> one). It was also used in Fujitsu ATMs.
>>
>> Probably many other applications as well, its just that a lot of
>> people here only know the PC side of the industry that would appear to
>> include you and definitely includes Speed.
>
> Me definitely. Closest I have been to a Mini was the PDP11 at the
> college. As I have stated often, my only involvement beyond desktop PCs
> was the networking thereof at the college. I have never professed to
> have involvement beyond that. My point was, it was an attempt by IBM to
> wrest back control of the desktop PC market - and it failed. That harks
> back to when IBM released the PS/2 with MCA and supplied with the OS2
> operating system. If you recall, IBM was trying to prevent a
> proliferation of clones using MCA and all they ended up achieving was to
> limit the proliferation of MCA into the desktop market. I am not arguing
> whether OS2 and MCA was superior to the Microsoft OS on ISA based PCs,
> just making the point that OS2 never achieved sufficient penetration.
> That's why it ended up *only* in the niche areas of which you wax lyrical.
>
>
Hardlty a niche, that area was IBMs main business.

On 11/07/2021 3:36 pm, Clocky wrote:
> On 9/07/2021 6:13 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>> On 9/07/2021 6:46 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>> On 9/07/2021 10:07 am, keithr0 wrote:
>>>> On 9/07/2021 11:08 am, Clocky wrote:
>>>>> On 7/07/2021 10:51 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>>>> On 7/07/2021 12:05 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>>> On 5/07/2021 7:45 pm, jonz wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 7/5/2021 12:36 PM, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Petzl" <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:69j4eg5g3sla81qdnse5u75ll4m5ul5nd9@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 09:15:04 +1000, Yosemite Sam
>>>>>>>>>> <felix@invalid.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> M$ support for W10 will end in 2025, but literally millions
>>>>>>>>>>> of PC owners
>>>>>>>>>>> worldwide will be unable to upgrade to W11!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrH4zEBmztc
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> lots more vids about it on youtube and articles on the web
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Microsoft has always made operating systems
>>>>>>>>>> that require one to buy new computers,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No they didn't with 7 and 10.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> then they can sell another operating system with it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No they didn't with 10.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Never a upgrade though always a downgrade.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That's wrong too with 7 and 10.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Best operating system was "Win 3.11",
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bullshit.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> been downgraded ever since.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bullshit.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>   XP or 95 for me.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 95 was way too unstable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> yes
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 98SE was rock solid and XP and 7 were great. The rest... meh.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> W10 is the best
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I hate it.
>>>>>
>>>> Why? Do you have some logical reason to do so?
>>>
>>> Software I like to run won't work and I don't like the UI.
>>>
>>> That's two sound reasons right there.
>>
>> Hate is an emotive word, you don't want to use W10, that's not reason
>> to "Hate" it.
>
> Ok, I really dislike it and don't care for it one little bit.
> Better?
>
>

you should have said 'intensely dislike' lol

--
"A mans got to know his limitations"
- clint Eastwood as Dirty Harry

On 11/07/2021 7:08 pm, Clocky wrote:
> On 11/07/2021 3:36 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>> On 11/07/2021 1:08 pm, Xeno wrote:
>>> On 11/7/21 11:19 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>> On 11/07/2021 12:53 am, Clocky wrote:
>>>>> On 9/07/2021 6:19 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/07/2021 7:25 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>> keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
>>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>>> "keithr0" <user@account.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:ikpspfF97scU2@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>>> On 9/07/2021 11:17 am, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/07/2021 4:14 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Xeno" <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>> news:ikkma7F968rU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/7/21 1:07 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/07/2021 10:10 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 09:15:04 +1000, Yosemite Sam
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <felix@invalid.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> M$ support for W10 will end in 2025, but literally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> millions of PC owners
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worldwide will be unable to upgrade to W11!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrH4zEBmztc
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lots more vids about it on youtube and articles on the web
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Microsoft has always made operating systems that require
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one to buy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new computers, then they can sell another operating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> system with it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Never a upgrade though always a downgrade.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best operating system was "Win 3.11", been downgraded
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ever since.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> **You're dreaming. The PC operating system was OS/2,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> followed by Windows 2000. Windows XP was, basically,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Win2k, with more automation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yep, the only real difference was in the desktop
>>>>>>>>>>>>> environment. The underlying XP OS was the same as Win2k.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Still, if OS/2 had made it in the marketplace.....
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> OS/2 died because it was marketed wrongly by *IBM*.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The problem wasn’t marketing, it was that you
>>>>>>>>>>>> had to replace everything you already had.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> True but it was a combination of both.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> OS/2 continued on for years inside IBM professional products.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And they sold fuck all of those. It was always a dud market wise.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't think that you understand,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Corse I know what that means.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> by the professional market I mean mainframe and mini markets.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Duh.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's where IBM have always made the majority of their money.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Still sweet fuck all with OS/2
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You have no idea, OS/2 was used in controllers on the machinery
>>>>>> that make the commercial world work. The PC world is just the
>>>>>> periphery of that and toys for amateurs.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> LOL, OS/2 was an industry joke you clown.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> iirc OS/2 was good on early PC's. apps ran in their own memory space
>>>> which made it very stable.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> It died because of lack of general industry support. It wouldn't have
>>> mattered how stable it was.
>>>
>> Like I have said, it didn't die, it carried on inside IBMs
>> professional products. E.G. it was used in micro-channel PCs as the
>> controllers for the later 3890 cheque sorters and IBMs rather weird
>> automatic tape library that used a Fanuc industrial robot (Telstra had
>> one). It was also used in Fujitsu ATMs.
>>
>> Probably many other applications as well, its just that a lot of
>> people here only know the PC side of the industry that would appear to
>> include you and definitely includes Speed.
>
> No matter how you try and dress it up, it ended up used in a few niche
> applications. That's all it had and not a marker for success.
>
>
The mainframe business at the time was worth considerably more than the
PC market, the machines there cost millions (and still do). IBM was
never a consumer market company, even the PC was originally intended for
their business customers.

On 11/07/2021 7:08 pm, Clocky wrote:
> On 11/07/2021 3:36 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>> On 11/07/2021 1:08 pm, Xeno wrote:
>>> On 11/7/21 11:19 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>> On 11/07/2021 12:53 am, Clocky wrote:
>>>>> On 9/07/2021 6:19 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/07/2021 7:25 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>> keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
>>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>>> "keithr0" <user@account.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:ikpspfF97scU2@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>>> On 9/07/2021 11:17 am, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/07/2021 4:14 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Xeno" <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>> news:ikkma7F968rU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/7/21 1:07 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/07/2021 10:10 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 09:15:04 +1000, Yosemite Sam
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <felix@invalid.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> M$ support for W10 will end in 2025, but literally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> millions of PC owners
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worldwide will be unable to upgrade to W11!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrH4zEBmztc
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lots more vids about it on youtube and articles on the web
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Microsoft has always made operating systems that require
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one to buy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new computers, then they can sell another operating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> system with it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Never a upgrade though always a downgrade.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best operating system was "Win 3.11", been downgraded
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ever since.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> **You're dreaming. The PC operating system was OS/2,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> followed by Windows 2000. Windows XP was, basically,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Win2k, with more automation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yep, the only real difference was in the desktop
>>>>>>>>>>>>> environment. The underlying XP OS was the same as Win2k.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Still, if OS/2 had made it in the marketplace.....
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> OS/2 died because it was marketed wrongly by *IBM*.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The problem wasn’t marketing, it was that you
>>>>>>>>>>>> had to replace everything you already had.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> True but it was a combination of both.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> OS/2 continued on for years inside IBM professional products.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And they sold fuck all of those. It was always a dud market wise.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't think that you understand,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Corse I know what that means.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> by the professional market I mean mainframe and mini markets.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Duh.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's where IBM have always made the majority of their money.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Still sweet fuck all with OS/2
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You have no idea, OS/2 was used in controllers on the machinery
>>>>>> that make the commercial world work. The PC world is just the
>>>>>> periphery of that and toys for amateurs.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> LOL, OS/2 was an industry joke you clown.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> iirc OS/2 was good on early PC's. apps ran in their own memory
>>>> space which made it very stable.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> It died because of lack of general industry support. It wouldn't
>>> have mattered how stable it was.
>>>
>> Like I have said, it didn't die, it carried on inside IBMs
>> professional products. E.G. it was used in micro-channel PCs as the
>> controllers for the later 3890 cheque sorters and IBMs rather weird
>> automatic tape library that used a Fanuc industrial robot (Telstra
>> had one). It was also used in Fujitsu ATMs.
>>
>> Probably many other applications as well, its just that a lot of
>> people here only know the PC side of the industry that would appear
>> to include you and definitely includes Speed.
>
> No matter how you try and dress it up, it ended up used in a few niche
> applications. That's all it had and not a marker for success.
>
>

if it's still in use then it hasn't died :)

--
"A mans got to know his limitations"
- clint Eastwood as Dirty Harry

keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
> On 11/07/2021 1:08 pm, Xeno wrote:
>> On 11/7/21 11:19 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>> On 11/07/2021 12:53 am, Clocky wrote:
>>>> On 9/07/2021 6:19 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>>> On 9/07/2021 7:25 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>> keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>> "keithr0" <user@account.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:ikpspfF97scU2@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>> On 9/07/2021 11:17 am, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 8/07/2021 4:14 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Xeno" <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>> news:ikkma7F968rU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/7/21 1:07 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/07/2021 10:10 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 09:15:04 +1000, Yosemite Sam
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <felix@invalid.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> M$ support for W10 will end in 2025, but literally millions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of PC owners
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worldwide will be unable to upgrade to W11!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrH4zEBmztc
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lots more vids about it on youtube and articles on the web
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Microsoft has always made operating systems that require one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to buy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new computers, then they can sell another operating system
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Never a upgrade though always a downgrade.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best operating system was "Win 3.11", been downgraded ever
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> **You're dreaming. The PC operating system was OS/2, followed
>>>>>>>>>>>>> by Windows 2000. Windows XP was, basically, Win2k, with more
>>>>>>>>>>>>> automation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yep, the only real difference was in the desktop environment.
>>>>>>>>>>>> The underlying XP OS was the same as Win2k.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Still, if OS/2 had made it in the marketplace.....
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> OS/2 died because it was marketed wrongly by *IBM*.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The problem wasn’t marketing, it was that you
>>>>>>>>>>> had to replace everything you already had.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> True but it was a combination of both.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> OS/2 continued on for years inside IBM professional products.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And they sold fuck all of those. It was always a dud market wise.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't think that you understand,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Corse I know what that means.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> by the professional market I mean mainframe and mini markets.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Duh.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's where IBM have always made the majority of their money.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Still sweet fuck all with OS/2
>>>>>
>>>>> You have no idea, OS/2 was used in controllers on the machinery that
>>>>> make the commercial world work. The PC world is just the periphery of
>>>>> that and toys for amateurs.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> LOL, OS/2 was an industry joke you clown.
>>>>
>>>
>>> iirc OS/2 was good on early PC's. apps ran in their own memory space
>>> which made it very stable.
>>>
>>>
>> It died because of lack of general industry support. It wouldn't have
>> mattered how stable it was.
>>
> Like I have said, it didn't die, it carried on inside IBMs professional
> products. E.G. it was used in micro-channel PCs as the controllers for the
> later 3890 cheque sorters and IBMs rather weird automatic tape library
> that used a Fanuc industrial robot (Telstra had one). It was also used in
> Fujitsu ATMs.

> Probably many other applications as well, its just that a lot of people
> here only know the PC side of the industry that would appear to include
> you and definitely includes Speed.

Wrong as always with that later claim.

keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
> On 11/07/2021 7:08 pm, Clocky wrote:
>> On 11/07/2021 3:36 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>> On 11/07/2021 1:08 pm, Xeno wrote:
>>>> On 11/7/21 11:19 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>>> On 11/07/2021 12:53 am, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/07/2021 6:19 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>>>>> On 9/07/2021 7:25 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>> keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>>>> "keithr0" <user@account.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:ikpspfF97scU2@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/07/2021 11:17 am, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/07/2021 4:14 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Xeno" <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:ikkma7F968rU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/7/21 1:07 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/07/2021 10:10 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 09:15:04 +1000, Yosemite Sam
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <felix@invalid.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> M$ support for W10 will end in 2025, but literally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> millions of PC owners
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worldwide will be unable to upgrade to W11!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrH4zEBmztc
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lots more vids about it on youtube and articles on the web
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Microsoft has always made operating systems that require
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one to buy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new computers, then they can sell another operating system
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Never a upgrade though always a downgrade.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best operating system was "Win 3.11", been downgraded ever
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> **You're dreaming. The PC operating system was OS/2,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> followed by Windows 2000. Windows XP was, basically, Win2k,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with more automation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yep, the only real difference was in the desktop environment.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The underlying XP OS was the same as Win2k.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Still, if OS/2 had made it in the marketplace.....
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OS/2 died because it was marketed wrongly by *IBM*.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The problem wasn’t marketing, it was that you
>>>>>>>>>>>>> had to replace everything you already had.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> True but it was a combination of both.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> OS/2 continued on for years inside IBM professional products.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And they sold fuck all of those. It was always a dud market wise.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't think that you understand,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Corse I know what that means.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> by the professional market I mean mainframe and mini markets.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Duh.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That's where IBM have always made the majority of their money.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Still sweet fuck all with OS/2
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You have no idea, OS/2 was used in controllers on the machinery that
>>>>>>> make the commercial world work. The PC world is just the periphery
>>>>>>> of that and toys for amateurs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> LOL, OS/2 was an industry joke you clown.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> iirc OS/2 was good on early PC's. apps ran in their own memory space
>>>>> which made it very stable.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> It died because of lack of general industry support. It wouldn't have
>>>> mattered how stable it was.
>>>>
>>> Like I have said, it didn't die, it carried on inside IBMs professional
>>> products. E.G. it was used in micro-channel PCs as the controllers for
>>> the later 3890 cheque sorters and IBMs rather weird automatic tape
>>> library that used a Fanuc industrial robot (Telstra had one). It was
>>> also used in Fujitsu ATMs.
>>>
>>> Probably many other applications as well, its just that a lot of people
>>> here only know the PC side of the industry that would appear to include
>>> you and definitely includes Speed.
>>
>> No matter how you try and dress it up, it ended up used in a few niche
>> applications. That's all it had and not a marker for success.

> The mainframe business at the time was worth considerably more than the PC
> market, the machines there cost millions (and still do).

> IBM was never a consumer market company,

More mindless bullshit with the PCJr and PS/1.

> even the PC was originally intended for their business customers.

More mindless bullshit.

On 11/7/21 7:32 pm, keithr0 wrote:
> On 11/07/2021 6:11 pm, Xeno wrote:
>> On 11/7/21 5:36 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>> On 11/07/2021 1:08 pm, Xeno wrote:
>>>> On 11/7/21 11:19 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>>> On 11/07/2021 12:53 am, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/07/2021 6:19 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>>>>> On 9/07/2021 7:25 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>> keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>>>> "keithr0" <user@account.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:ikpspfF97scU2@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/07/2021 11:17 am, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/07/2021 4:14 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Xeno" <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:ikkma7F968rU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/7/21 1:07 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/07/2021 10:10 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 09:15:04 +1000, Yosemite Sam
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <felix@invalid.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> M$ support for W10 will end in 2025, but literally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> millions of PC owners
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worldwide will be unable to upgrade to W11!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrH4zEBmztc
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lots more vids about it on youtube and articles on the web
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Microsoft has always made operating systems that require
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one to buy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new computers, then they can sell another operating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> system with it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Never a upgrade though always a downgrade.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best operating system was "Win 3.11", been downgraded
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ever since.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> **You're dreaming. The PC operating system was OS/2,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> followed by Windows 2000. Windows XP was, basically,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Win2k, with more automation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yep, the only real difference was in the desktop
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> environment. The underlying XP OS was the same as Win2k.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Still, if OS/2 had made it in the marketplace.....
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OS/2 died because it was marketed wrongly by *IBM*.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The problem wasn’t marketing, it was that you
>>>>>>>>>>>>> had to replace everything you already had.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> True but it was a combination of both.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> OS/2 continued on for years inside IBM professional products.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And they sold fuck all of those. It was always a dud market wise.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't think that you understand,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Corse I know what that means.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> by the professional market I mean mainframe and mini markets.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Duh.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That's where IBM have always made the majority of their money.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Still sweet fuck all with OS/2
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You have no idea, OS/2 was used in controllers on the machinery
>>>>>>> that make the commercial world work. The PC world is just the
>>>>>>> periphery of that and toys for amateurs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> LOL, OS/2 was an industry joke you clown.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> iirc OS/2 was good on early PC's. apps ran in their own memory
>>>>> space which made it very stable.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> It died because of lack of general industry support. It wouldn't
>>>> have mattered how stable it was.
>>>>
>>> Like I have said, it didn't die, it carried on inside IBMs
>>> professional products. E.G. it was used in micro-channel PCs as the
>>> controllers for the later 3890 cheque sorters and IBMs rather weird
>>> automatic tape library that used a Fanuc industrial robot (Telstra
>>> had one). It was also used in Fujitsu ATMs.
>>>
>>> Probably many other applications as well, its just that a lot of
>>> people here only know the PC side of the industry that would appear
>>> to include you and definitely includes Speed.
>>
>> Me definitely. Closest I have been to a Mini was the PDP11 at the
>> college. As I have stated often, my only involvement beyond desktop
>> PCs was the networking thereof at the college. I have never professed
>> to have involvement beyond that. My point was, it was an attempt by
>> IBM to wrest back control of the desktop PC market - and it failed.
>> That harks back to when IBM released the PS/2 with MCA and supplied
>> with the OS2 operating system. If you recall, IBM was trying to
>> prevent a proliferation of clones using MCA and all they ended up
>> achieving was to limit the proliferation of MCA into the desktop
>> market. I am not arguing whether OS2 and MCA was superior to the
>> Microsoft OS on ISA based PCs, just making the point that OS2 never
>> achieved sufficient penetration. That's why it ended up *only* in the
>> niche areas of which you wax lyrical.
>>
>>
> Hardlty a niche, that area was IBMs main business.

A niche compared to the general PC market they no longer had *any
control* over.

--

Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 11/07/2021 8:33 pm, Xeno wrote:
> On 11/7/21 7:32 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>> On 11/07/2021 6:11 pm, Xeno wrote:
>>> On 11/7/21 5:36 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>> On 11/07/2021 1:08 pm, Xeno wrote:
>>>>> On 11/7/21 11:19 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/07/2021 12:53 am, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>>> On 9/07/2021 6:19 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 9/07/2021 7:25 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>> keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
>>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>>>>> "keithr0" <user@account.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>> news:ikpspfF97scU2@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/07/2021 11:17 am, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/07/2021 4:14 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Xeno" <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:ikkma7F968rU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/7/21 1:07 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/07/2021 10:10 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 09:15:04 +1000, Yosemite Sam
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <felix@invalid.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> M$ support for W10 will end in 2025, but literally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> millions of PC owners
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worldwide will be unable to upgrade to W11!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrH4zEBmztc
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lots more vids about it on youtube and articles on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> web
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Microsoft has always made operating systems that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> require one to buy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new computers, then they can sell another operating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> system with it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Never a upgrade though always a downgrade.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best operating system was "Win 3.11", been downgraded
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ever since.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> **You're dreaming. The PC operating system was OS/2,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> followed by Windows 2000. Windows XP was, basically,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Win2k, with more automation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yep, the only real difference was in the desktop
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> environment. The underlying XP OS was the same as Win2k.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Still, if OS/2 had made it in the marketplace.....
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OS/2 died because it was marketed wrongly by *IBM*.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The problem wasn’t marketing, it was that you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had to replace everything you already had.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> True but it was a combination of both.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> OS/2 continued on for years inside IBM professional products.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And they sold fuck all of those. It was always a dud market
>>>>>>>>>>> wise.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I don't think that you understand,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Corse I know what that means.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> by the professional market I mean mainframe and mini markets.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Duh.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That's where IBM have always made the majority of their money.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Still sweet fuck all with OS/2
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You have no idea, OS/2 was used in controllers on the machinery
>>>>>>>> that make the commercial world work. The PC world is just the
>>>>>>>> periphery of that and toys for amateurs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> LOL, OS/2 was an industry joke you clown.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> iirc OS/2 was good on early PC's. apps ran in their own memory
>>>>>> space which made it very stable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> It died because of lack of general industry support. It wouldn't
>>>>> have mattered how stable it was.
>>>>>
>>>> Like I have said, it didn't die, it carried on inside IBMs
>>>> professional products. E.G. it was used in micro-channel PCs as the
>>>> controllers for the later 3890 cheque sorters and IBMs rather weird
>>>> automatic tape library that used a Fanuc industrial robot (Telstra
>>>> had one). It was also used in Fujitsu ATMs.
>>>>
>>>> Probably many other applications as well, its just that a lot of
>>>> people here only know the PC side of the industry that would appear
>>>> to include you and definitely includes Speed.
>>>
>>> Me definitely. Closest I have been to a Mini was the PDP11 at the
>>> college. As I have stated often, my only involvement beyond desktop
>>> PCs was the networking thereof at the college. I have never professed
>>> to have involvement beyond that. My point was, it was an attempt by
>>> IBM to wrest back control of the desktop PC market - and it failed.
>>> That harks back to when IBM released the PS/2 with MCA and supplied
>>> with the OS2 operating system. If you recall, IBM was trying to
>>> prevent a proliferation of clones using MCA and all they ended up
>>> achieving was to limit the proliferation of MCA into the desktop
>>> market. I am not arguing whether OS2 and MCA was superior to the
>>> Microsoft OS on ISA based PCs, just making the point that OS2 never
>>> achieved sufficient penetration. That's why it ended up *only* in the
>>> niche areas of which you wax lyrical.
>>>
>>>
>> Hardlty a niche, that area was IBMs main business.
>
> A niche compared to the general PC market they no longer had *any
> control* over.
>
I think that you under-estimate the value of the mainframe market. Just
our 3 year maintenance contract to look after Westpacs mainframe
equipment was worth about $40M.

On 11/07/2021 8:20 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
> keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
>> On 11/07/2021 1:08 pm, Xeno wrote:
>>> On 11/7/21 11:19 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>> On 11/07/2021 12:53 am, Clocky wrote:
>>>>> On 9/07/2021 6:19 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/07/2021 7:25 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>> keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
>>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>>> "keithr0" <user@account.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:ikpspfF97scU2@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>>> On 9/07/2021 11:17 am, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/07/2021 4:14 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Xeno" <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>> news:ikkma7F968rU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/7/21 1:07 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/07/2021 10:10 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 09:15:04 +1000, Yosemite Sam
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <felix@invalid.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> M$ support for W10 will end in 2025, but literally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> millions of PC owners
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worldwide will be unable to upgrade to W11!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrH4zEBmztc
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lots more vids about it on youtube and articles on the web
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Microsoft has always made operating systems that require
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one to buy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new computers, then they can sell another operating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> system with it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Never a upgrade though always a downgrade.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best operating system was "Win 3.11", been downgraded
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ever since.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> **You're dreaming. The PC operating system was OS/2,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> followed by Windows 2000. Windows XP was, basically,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Win2k, with more automation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yep, the only real difference was in the desktop
>>>>>>>>>>>>> environment. The underlying XP OS was the same as Win2k.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Still, if OS/2 had made it in the marketplace.....
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> OS/2 died because it was marketed wrongly by *IBM*.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The problem wasn’t marketing, it was that you
>>>>>>>>>>>> had to replace everything you already had.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> True but it was a combination of both.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> OS/2 continued on for years inside IBM professional products.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And they sold fuck all of those. It was always a dud market wise.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't think that you understand,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Corse I know what that means.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> by the professional market I mean mainframe and mini markets.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Duh.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's where IBM have always made the majority of their money.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Still sweet fuck all with OS/2
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You have no idea, OS/2 was used in controllers on the machinery
>>>>>> that make the commercial world work. The PC world is just the
>>>>>> periphery of that and toys for amateurs.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> LOL, OS/2 was an industry joke you clown.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> iirc OS/2 was good on early PC's. apps ran in their own memory space
>>>> which made it very stable.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> It died because of lack of general industry support. It wouldn't have
>>> mattered how stable it was.
>>>
>> Like I have said, it didn't die, it carried on inside IBMs
>> professional products. E.G. it was used in micro-channel PCs as the
>> controllers for the later 3890 cheque sorters and IBMs rather weird
>> automatic tape library that used a Fanuc industrial robot (Telstra had
>> one). It was also used in Fujitsu ATMs.
>
>> Probably many other applications as well, its just that a lot of
>> people here only know the PC side of the industry that would appear to
>> include you and definitely includes Speed.
>
> Wrong as always with that later claim.

So, what mainframe experience do you have?

On 11/07/2021 8:27 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
> keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
>> On 11/07/2021 7:08 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>> On 11/07/2021 3:36 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>> On 11/07/2021 1:08 pm, Xeno wrote:
>>>>> On 11/7/21 11:19 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/07/2021 12:53 am, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>>> On 9/07/2021 6:19 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 9/07/2021 7:25 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>> keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
>>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>>>>> "keithr0" <user@account.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>> news:ikpspfF97scU2@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/07/2021 11:17 am, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/07/2021 4:14 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Xeno" <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:ikkma7F968rU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/7/21 1:07 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/07/2021 10:10 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 09:15:04 +1000, Yosemite Sam
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <felix@invalid.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> M$ support for W10 will end in 2025, but literally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> millions of PC owners
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worldwide will be unable to upgrade to W11!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrH4zEBmztc
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lots more vids about it on youtube and articles on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> web
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Microsoft has always made operating systems that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> require one to buy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new computers, then they can sell another operating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> system with it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Never a upgrade though always a downgrade.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best operating system was "Win 3.11", been downgraded
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ever since.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> **You're dreaming. The PC operating system was OS/2,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> followed by Windows 2000. Windows XP was, basically,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Win2k, with more automation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yep, the only real difference was in the desktop
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> environment. The underlying XP OS was the same as Win2k.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Still, if OS/2 had made it in the marketplace.....
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OS/2 died because it was marketed wrongly by *IBM*.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The problem wasn’t marketing, it was that you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had to replace everything you already had.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> True but it was a combination of both.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> OS/2 continued on for years inside IBM professional products.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And they sold fuck all of those. It was always a dud market
>>>>>>>>>>> wise.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I don't think that you understand,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Corse I know what that means.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> by the professional market I mean mainframe and mini markets.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Duh.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That's where IBM have always made the majority of their money.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Still sweet fuck all with OS/2
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You have no idea, OS/2 was used in controllers on the machinery
>>>>>>>> that make the commercial world work. The PC world is just the
>>>>>>>> periphery of that and toys for amateurs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> LOL, OS/2 was an industry joke you clown.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> iirc OS/2 was good on early PC's. apps ran in their own memory
>>>>>> space which made it very stable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> It died because of lack of general industry support. It wouldn't
>>>>> have mattered how stable it was.
>>>>>
>>>> Like I have said, it didn't die, it carried on inside IBMs
>>>> professional products. E.G. it was used in micro-channel PCs as the
>>>> controllers for the later 3890 cheque sorters and IBMs rather weird
>>>> automatic tape library that used a Fanuc industrial robot (Telstra
>>>> had one). It was also used in Fujitsu ATMs.
>>>>
>>>> Probably many other applications as well, its just that a lot of
>>>> people here only know the PC side of the industry that would appear
>>>> to include you and definitely includes Speed.
>>>
>>> No matter how you try and dress it up, it ended up used in a few
>>> niche applications. That's all it had and not a marker for success.
>
>> The mainframe business at the time was worth considerably more than
>> the PC market, the machines there cost millions (and still do).
>
>> IBM was  never a consumer market company,
>
> More mindless bullshit with the PCJr and PS/1.

They were just a sideline, the results showed that they had no idea what
they were doing.

>> even the PC was originally intended for their business customers.
>
> More mindless bullshit.

Your usual pig ignorant opinion.

On 11/7/21 10:43 pm, keithr0 wrote:
> On 11/07/2021 8:33 pm, Xeno wrote:
>> On 11/7/21 7:32 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>> On 11/07/2021 6:11 pm, Xeno wrote:
>>>> On 11/7/21 5:36 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>>> On 11/07/2021 1:08 pm, Xeno wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/7/21 11:19 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>>>>> On 11/07/2021 12:53 am, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 9/07/2021 6:19 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 9/07/2021 7:25 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>> "keithr0" <user@account.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>> news:ikpspfF97scU2@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/07/2021 11:17 am, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/07/2021 4:14 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Xeno" <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:ikkma7F968rU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/7/21 1:07 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/07/2021 10:10 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 09:15:04 +1000, Yosemite Sam
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <felix@invalid.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> M$ support for W10 will end in 2025, but literally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> millions of PC owners
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worldwide will be unable to upgrade to W11!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrH4zEBmztc
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lots more vids about it on youtube and articles on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the web
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Microsoft has always made operating systems that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> require one to buy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new computers, then they can sell another operating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> system with it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Never a upgrade though always a downgrade.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best operating system was "Win 3.11", been downgraded
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ever since.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> **You're dreaming. The PC operating system was OS/2,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> followed by Windows 2000. Windows XP was, basically,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Win2k, with more automation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yep, the only real difference was in the desktop
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> environment. The underlying XP OS was the same as Win2k.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Still, if OS/2 had made it in the marketplace.....
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OS/2 died because it was marketed wrongly by *IBM*.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The problem wasn’t marketing, it was that you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had to replace everything you already had.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> True but it was a combination of both.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> OS/2 continued on for years inside IBM professional products.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And they sold fuck all of those. It was always a dud market
>>>>>>>>>>>> wise.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think that you understand,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Corse I know what that means.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> by the professional market I mean mainframe and mini markets.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Duh.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That's where IBM have always made the majority of their money.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Still sweet fuck all with OS/2
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You have no idea, OS/2 was used in controllers on the machinery
>>>>>>>>> that make the commercial world work. The PC world is just the
>>>>>>>>> periphery of that and toys for amateurs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> LOL, OS/2 was an industry joke you clown.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> iirc OS/2 was good on early PC's. apps ran in their own memory
>>>>>>> space which made it very stable.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> It died because of lack of general industry support. It wouldn't
>>>>>> have mattered how stable it was.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Like I have said, it didn't die, it carried on inside IBMs
>>>>> professional products. E.G. it was used in micro-channel PCs as the
>>>>> controllers for the later 3890 cheque sorters and IBMs rather weird
>>>>> automatic tape library that used a Fanuc industrial robot (Telstra
>>>>> had one). It was also used in Fujitsu ATMs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Probably many other applications as well, its just that a lot of
>>>>> people here only know the PC side of the industry that would appear
>>>>> to include you and definitely includes Speed.
>>>>
>>>> Me definitely. Closest I have been to a Mini was the PDP11 at the
>>>> college. As I have stated often, my only involvement beyond desktop
>>>> PCs was the networking thereof at the college. I have never
>>>> professed to have involvement beyond that. My point was, it was an
>>>> attempt by IBM to wrest back control of the desktop PC market - and
>>>> it failed. That harks back to when IBM released the PS/2 with MCA
>>>> and supplied with the OS2 operating system. If you recall, IBM was
>>>> trying to prevent a proliferation of clones using MCA and all they
>>>> ended up achieving was to limit the proliferation of MCA into the
>>>> desktop market. I am not arguing whether OS2 and MCA was superior to
>>>> the Microsoft OS on ISA based PCs, just making the point that OS2
>>>> never achieved sufficient penetration. That's why it ended up *only*
>>>> in the niche areas of which you wax lyrical.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Hardlty a niche, that area was IBMs main business.
>>
>> A niche compared to the general PC market they no longer had *any
>> control* over.
>>
> I think that you under-estimate the value of the mainframe market. Just
> our 3 year maintenance contract to look after Westpacs mainframe
> equipment was worth about $40M.