I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying Scotsman are
shown in RTT? I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I know
that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised timings. The
light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.

<https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>

The letter accompanying the ticket says:

Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail and the
British
Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we would appreciate it if you could
treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.

Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 21:16:53 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying Scotsman are
>> shown in RTT? I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I know
>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised timings. The
>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>
>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022 " rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>
> I'm pretty sure they do show up. I tracked the last one of these to pass
> through Evesham, so that I could be in the right place for a photo and
> video[1], and it was pretty much bang on time.
>
> What's possibly more interesting is that exactly the same journey, but
> hauled by Tornado rather than Flying Scotsman, is cheaper:
>
> https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer
>
> Is Flying Scotsman really that much more attractive to railtour
> customers? I would have thought that it doesn't really make that much
> difference what the loco is, to those inside the carriages. It's the
> lineside spotters that care more.

Ah well, we subsidise your enjoyment!

If we're being rational, a diesel-hauled tour would be cheaper still, and
better by any objective measure.

>
> [1] https://www.facebook.com/markgoodge/videos/10165539747150247 and
> https://www.facebook.com/markgoodge/posts/10165539721585247
>
> Mark
>

On 14/02/2022 21:16, Recliner wrote:
> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying Scotsman are
> shown in RTT? I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I know
> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised timings. The
> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>
> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>
> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>
> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail and the
> British
> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we would appreciate it if you could
>
> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.

It is not hard to estimate, to within about 15/30 minutes, the passing
times at intermediate locations.

So, at this time of year, on the return from Worcester, once the train
has passed Cheltenham, it will be getting too dark for photography.

On the outward journey, they will probably need a water stop, possibly
in the Didcot / Oxford area, so expect it to be at Oxford at some time
between 08:45 and 09:15. And it will need to cross one or more
London-bound services at stations with passing loops, etc.

On 14/02/2022 21:16, Recliner wrote:
> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying Scotsman are
> shown in RTT? I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I know
> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised timings. The
> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>
> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>
> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>
> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail and the
> British
> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we would appreciate it if you could
> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.

The ability to ensure the times to not appear in RTT exists. Quite
frankly I'm surprised this is normal for steam specials.

Fortunately the one to Cardiff today did appear.

In message <suegs5$vsr$1@dont-email.me>, at 21:16:53 on Mon, 14 Feb
2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying Scotsman are
>shown in RTT? I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I know
>that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised timings. The
>light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>
><https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>
>The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>
>Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail
> and the British
>Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we 
>would appreciate it if you could

>treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.

I can relate to this, as the only trip I booked hauled by Flying
Scotsman was cancelled at the last minute due to fears about
trespassers.

And which side of the yellow line are you supposed to stand (both
platforms)? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqgOpxc4nYE
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <suegs5$vsr$1@dont-email.me>, at 21:16:53 on Mon, 14 Feb
> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying Scotsman are
>> shown in RTT? I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I know
>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised timings. The
>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>
>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>
>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>
>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail
>>  and the British
>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we 
>> would appreciate it if you could
>
>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>
> I can relate to this, as the only trip I booked hauled by Flying
> Scotsman was cancelled at the last minute due to fears about
> trespassers.
>
> And which side of the yellow line are you supposed to stand (both
> platforms)? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqgOpxc4nYE

Aside: Maroon Mk2s just look wrong; discuss.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On 15/02/2022 10:29, Sam Wilson wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <suegs5$vsr$1@dont-email.me>, at 21:16:53 on Mon, 14 Feb
>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying Scotsman are
>>> shown in RTT? I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I know
>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised timings. The
>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>
>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>
>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>
>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail
>>>  and the British
>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we
>>> would appreciate it if you could
>>
>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>
>> I can relate to this, as the only trip I booked hauled by Flying
>> Scotsman was cancelled at the last minute due to fears about
>> trespassers.
>>
>> And which side of the yellow line are you supposed to stand (both
>> platforms)? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqgOpxc4nYE
>
> Aside: Maroon Mk2s just look wrong; discuss.
>
> Sam
>
If you ask politely I might make my comments.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <suegs5$vsr$1@dont-email.me>, at 21:16:53 on Mon, 14 Feb
> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying Scotsman are
>> shown in RTT? I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I know
>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised timings. The
>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>
>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>
>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>
>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail
>>  and the British
>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we 
>> would appreciate it if you could
>
>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>
> I can relate to this, as the only trip I booked hauled by Flying
> Scotsman was cancelled at the last minute due to fears about
> trespassers.

Yes, I really hope something like that doesn't happen this time.
Ironically, the less than beautiful weather forecast might prove to be a
help, as it'll probably discourage some of the spotters.

>
> And which side of the yellow line are you supposed to stand (both
> platforms)? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqgOpxc4nYE

They were lucky no train came past the other way, next to the platform.
Apart from the danger, it would also have obscured their view.

<martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
> On 15/02/2022 10:29, Sam Wilson wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <suegs5$vsr$1@dont-email.me>, at 21:16:53 on Mon, 14 Feb
>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying Scotsman are
>>>> shown in RTT? I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I know
>>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised timings. The
>>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>>
>>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>>
>>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail
>>>>  and the British
>>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we
>>>> would appreciate it if you could
>>>
>>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>>
>>> I can relate to this, as the only trip I booked hauled by Flying
>>> Scotsman was cancelled at the last minute due to fears about
>>> trespassers.
>>>
>>> And which side of the yellow line are you supposed to stand (both
>>> platforms)? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqgOpxc4nYE
>>
>> Aside: Maroon Mk2s just look wrong; discuss.
>>
>> Sam
>>
> If you ask politely I might make my comments.

About yellow lines or maroon Mk2s? If the latter, the pretty please,
definitely.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On 15/02/2022 11:51, Recliner wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <suegs5$vsr$1@dont-email.me>, at 21:16:53 on Mon, 14 Feb
>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying Scotsman are
>>> shown in RTT? I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I know
>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised timings. The
>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>
>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>
>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>
>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail
>>>  and the British
>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we
>>> would appreciate it if you could
>>
>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>
>> I can relate to this, as the only trip I booked hauled by Flying
>> Scotsman was cancelled at the last minute due to fears about
>> trespassers.
>
> Yes, I really hope something like that doesn't happen this time.
> Ironically, the less than beautiful weather forecast might prove to be a
> help, as it'll probably discourage some of the spotters.

It wont discourage the spotters who know to keep behind the yellow line
but should everyone else.

>
>>
>> And which side of the yellow line are you supposed to stand (both
>> platforms)? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqgOpxc4nYE
>
> They were lucky no train came past the other way, next to the platform.
> Apart from the danger, it would also have obscured their view.

I agree.

Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:

>
> Aside: Maroon Mk2s just look wrong; discuss.
>
> Sam
>

A rake of them AFAIK would not have happened before the Blue-Grey era,
Some early ones were painted in Maroon but they were Mk2 FK or First
Corridor so it would be unlikely a whole train would be formed from them ,
and it would still need a brake from another design they were vacuum braked
only, so use when they were Maroon would have been with MK1 or older stock.
Same applied to the batch of MK2 FKs that were turned out in the Green used
on the Southern Region, they often ended up as part a Southampton Docks
boat train set if another vehicle had to be cut out for maintenance or on
the Golden Arrow.

GH

In message <sufv9l$q5k$2@dont-email.me>, at 10:29:09 on Tue, 15 Feb
2022, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <suegs5$vsr$1@dont-email.me>, at 21:16:53 on Mon, 14 Feb
>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying Scotsman are
>>> shown in RTT? I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I know
>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised timings. The
>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>
>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>
>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>
>>>
>>>Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail
>>>  and the British
>>>
>>>Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we 
>>> would appreciate it if you could
>>
>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>
>> I can relate to this, as the only trip I booked hauled by Flying
>> Scotsman was cancelled at the last minute due to fears about
>> trespassers.
>>
>> And which side of the yellow line are you supposed to stand (both
>> platforms)? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqgOpxc4nYE
>
>Aside: Maroon Mk2s just look wrong;

As does FS going backwards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCwcTbyTz1Y

>discuss.

Good selection of not-quite-matching colours here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGny6s_Llxk
--
Roland Perry

In message <sug435$n85$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:51:01 on Tue, 15 Feb
2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

>> And which side of the yellow line are you supposed to stand (both
>> platforms)? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqgOpxc4nYE
>
>They were lucky no train came past the other way, next to the platform.
>Apart from the danger, it would also have obscured their view.

Like this you mean?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hrEJhFk3nA
--
Roland Perry

<martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
> On 15/02/2022 11:51, Recliner wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <suegs5$vsr$1@dont-email.me>, at 21:16:53 on Mon, 14 Feb
>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying Scotsman are
>>>> shown in RTT? I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I know
>>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised timings. The
>>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>>
>>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>>
>>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail
>>>>  and the British
>>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we
>>>> would appreciate it if you could
>>>
>>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>>
>>> I can relate to this, as the only trip I booked hauled by Flying
>>> Scotsman was cancelled at the last minute due to fears about
>>> trespassers.
>>
>> Yes, I really hope something like that doesn't happen this time.
>> Ironically, the less than beautiful weather forecast might prove to be a
>> help, as it'll probably discourage some of the spotters.
>
> It wont discourage the spotters who know to keep behind the yellow line
> but should everyone else.

The problems come from spotters who trespass on the tracks. It seems to
happen particularly on the ECML 4 track sections. They get on via foot
crossings, and are so obsessed by the approaching steam that they pay no
attention to trains on the other tracks, approaching from behind them.

I think the serious spotters know better, and have already reconnoitered
good locations in nearby fields, but excited casual spotters are the
problem.

On 15/02/2022 12:05, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <sug435$n85$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:51:01 on Tue, 15 Feb
> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>
>>> And which side of the yellow line are you supposed to stand (both
>>> platforms)? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqgOpxc4nYE
>>
>> They were lucky no train came past the other way, next to the platform.
>> Apart from the danger, it would also have obscured their view.
>
> Like this you mean?
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hrEJhFk3nA

I was just thinking of a similar video posted here recently. I think it
was of a Virgin train getting in the way somewhere near Doncaster.

In message <sug5u0$fc$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:22:24 on Tue, 15 Feb 2022,
Certes <none@nowhere.net> remarked:
>On 15/02/2022 12:05, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <sug435$n85$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:51:01 on Tue, 15 Feb
>>2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>
>>>> And which side of the yellow line are you supposed to stand (both
>>>> platforms)? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqgOpxc4nYE
>>>
>>> They were lucky no train came past the other way, next to the platform.
>>> Apart from the danger, it would also have obscured their view.
>> Like this you mean?
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hrEJhFk3nA
>
>I was just thinking of a similar video posted here recently. I think it
>was of a Virgin train getting in the way somewhere near Doncaster.

I'm sure it happens quite a bit. But most people seem to throw the
resulting photo/video away. I thought I'd keep it :) And anyway, the
soundtrack is worth it, on its own.

The irony is, I was specifically on that side of the station to get a
wider angle view, and not have other spotters walking in front of me
(which at station stops like that is otherwise almost inevitable).
--
Roland Perry

Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 14/02/2022 21:16, Recliner wrote:
>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying Scotsman are
>> shown in RTT? I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I know
>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised timings. The
>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>
>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>
>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>
>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail and the
>> British
>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>
>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>
> It is not hard to estimate, to within about 15/30 minutes, the passing
> times at intermediate locations.
>
> So, at this time of year, on the return from Worcester, once the train
> has passed Cheltenham, it will be getting too dark for photography.
>
> On the outward journey, they will probably need a water stop, possibly
> in the Didcot / Oxford area, so expect it to be at Oxford at some time
> between 08:45 and 09:15. And it will need to cross one or more
> London-bound services at stations with passing loops, etc.
>
>

No loops any more on that section of line, but two fairly long single line
sections, plus long Absolute Block sections on the double track meaning it
can't follow an IET too closely.

I don't envy the job of Worcester Shrub Hill signaller having to shunt this
train out of the way in an already very restricted layout. Or is the ECS
running to Kidderminster?

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>> On 15/02/2022 11:51, Recliner wrote:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <suegs5$vsr$1@dont-email.me>, at 21:16:53 on Mon, 14 Feb
>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying Scotsman are
>>>>> shown in RTT? I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I know
>>>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised timings. The
>>>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>>>
>>>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>>>
>>>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail
>>>>>  and the British
>>>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we
>>>>> would appreciate it if you could
>>>>
>>>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>>>
>>>> I can relate to this, as the only trip I booked hauled by Flying
>>>> Scotsman was cancelled at the last minute due to fears about
>>>> trespassers.
>>>
>>> Yes, I really hope something like that doesn't happen this time.
>>> Ironically, the less than beautiful weather forecast might prove to be a
>>> help, as it'll probably discourage some of the spotters.
>>
>> It wont discourage the spotters who know to keep behind the yellow line
>> but should everyone else.
>
> The problems come from spotters who trespass on the tracks. It seems to
> happen particularly on the ECML 4 track sections. They get on via foot
> crossings, and are so obsessed by the approaching steam that they pay no
> attention to trains on the other tracks, approaching from behind them.
>
> I think the serious spotters know better, and have already reconnoitered
> good locations in nearby fields, but excited casual spotters are the
> problem.
>
>

The serious problems only seem to affect one particular, very famous,
locomotive. I therefore suggest that it's not 'spotters', but rather
'normals', including families, who cause the problems. People who wouldn't
go out for a black five, Bulleid Pacific, Tornado etc. appear to be
*obsessed* with seeing FS.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

In message <suhgo9$qn0$3@dont-email.me>, at 00:33:14 on Wed, 16 Feb
2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:

>> The problems come from spotters who trespass on the tracks. It seems to
>> happen particularly on the ECML 4 track sections. They get on via foot
>> crossings, and are so obsessed by the approaching steam that they pay no
>> attention to trains on the other tracks, approaching from behind them.
>>
>> I think the serious spotters know better, and have already reconnoitered
>> good locations in nearby fields, but excited casual spotters are the
>> problem.
>
>The serious problems only seem to affect one particular, very famous,
>locomotive. I therefore suggest that it's not 'spotters', but rather
>'normals', including families, who cause the problems. People who wouldn't
>go out for a black five, Bulleid Pacific, Tornado etc. appear to be
>*obsessed* with seeing FS.

They are egged on by the relentless publicity from the FS marketing
machine.
--
Roland Perry

On 16/02/2022 00:33, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
> Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 14/02/2022 21:16, Recliner wrote:
>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying Scotsman are
>>> shown in RTT? I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I know
>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised timings. The
>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>
>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>
>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>
>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail and the
>>> British
>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>>
>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>
>> It is not hard to estimate, to within about 15/30 minutes, the passing
>> times at intermediate locations.
>>
>> So, at this time of year, on the return from Worcester, once the train
>> has passed Cheltenham, it will be getting too dark for photography.
>>
>> On the outward journey, they will probably need a water stop, possibly
>> in the Didcot / Oxford area, so expect it to be at Oxford at some time
>> between 08:45 and 09:15. And it will need to cross one or more
>> London-bound services at stations with passing loops, etc.
>>
>>
>
> No loops any more on that section of line, but two fairly long single line
> sections, plus long Absolute Block sections on the double track meaning it
> can't follow an IET too closely.
>
> I don't envy the job of Worcester Shrub Hill signaller having to shunt this
> train out of the way in an already very restricted layout. Or is the ECS
> running to Kidderminster?
>
>
> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>

I was at Shrub Hill a few years ago, and I seem to recall that, after
unloading the passengers, a steam special just backed past the signal
box and into the siding on the south-west side of the line.

On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 12:32:23 +0000, Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 16/02/2022 00:33, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>> Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 14/02/2022 21:16, Recliner wrote:
>>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying Scotsman are
>>>> shown in RTT? I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I know
>>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised timings. The
>>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>>
>>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>>
>>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail and the
>>>> British
>>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>>>
>>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>>
>>> It is not hard to estimate, to within about 15/30 minutes, the passing
>>> times at intermediate locations.
>>>
>>> So, at this time of year, on the return from Worcester, once the train
>>> has passed Cheltenham, it will be getting too dark for photography.
>>>
>>> On the outward journey, they will probably need a water stop, possibly
>>> in the Didcot / Oxford area, so expect it to be at Oxford at some time
>>> between 08:45 and 09:15. And it will need to cross one or more
>>> London-bound services at stations with passing loops, etc.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> No loops any more on that section of line, but two fairly long single line
>> sections, plus long Absolute Block sections on the double track meaning it
>> can't follow an IET too closely.
>>
>> I don't envy the job of Worcester Shrub Hill signaller having to shunt this
>> train out of the way in an already very restricted layout. Or is the ECS
>> running to Kidderminster?
>>
>>
>> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>
>
>I was at Shrub Hill a few years ago, and I seem to recall that, after
>unloading the passengers, a steam special just backed past the signal
>box and into the siding on the south-west side of the line.

The loco would have to use the triangle to reverse.

Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 16/02/2022 00:33, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>> Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 14/02/2022 21:16, Recliner wrote:
>>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying Scotsman are
>>>> shown in RTT? I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I know
>>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised timings. The
>>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>>
>>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>>
>>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail and the
>>>> British
>>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>>>
>>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>>
>>> It is not hard to estimate, to within about 15/30 minutes, the passing
>>> times at intermediate locations.
>>>
>>> So, at this time of year, on the return from Worcester, once the train
>>> has passed Cheltenham, it will be getting too dark for photography.
>>>
>>> On the outward journey, they will probably need a water stop, possibly
>>> in the Didcot / Oxford area, so expect it to be at Oxford at some time
>>> between 08:45 and 09:15. And it will need to cross one or more
>>> London-bound services at stations with passing loops, etc.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> No loops any more on that section of line, but two fairly long single line
>> sections, plus long Absolute Block sections on the double track meaning it
>> can't follow an IET too closely.
>>
>> I don't envy the job of Worcester Shrub Hill signaller having to shunt this
>> train out of the way in an already very restricted layout. Or is the ECS
>> running to Kidderminster?
>>
>
> I was at Shrub Hill a few years ago, and I seem to recall that, after
> unloading the passengers, a steam special just backed past the signal
> box and into the siding on the south-west side of the line.
>

Propelling into the Long Siding would get the train out of the way to allow
other services to pass; but to service and prep the loco and stock for the
return journey would probably need shunting to the sidings on the opposite
side of the station. I don't recall OTTOMH whether or not there are
carriage watering hoses there.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
> Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 16/02/2022 00:33, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>>> Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 14/02/2022 21:16, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying Scotsman are
>>>>> shown in RTT? I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I know
>>>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised timings. The
>>>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>>>
>>>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>>>
>>>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail and the
>>>>> British
>>>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>>>>
>>>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>>>
>>>> It is not hard to estimate, to within about 15/30 minutes, the passing
>>>> times at intermediate locations.
>>>>
>>>> So, at this time of year, on the return from Worcester, once the train
>>>> has passed Cheltenham, it will be getting too dark for photography.
>>>>
>>>> On the outward journey, they will probably need a water stop, possibly
>>>> in the Didcot / Oxford area, so expect it to be at Oxford at some time
>>>> between 08:45 and 09:15. And it will need to cross one or more
>>>> London-bound services at stations with passing loops, etc.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> No loops any more on that section of line, but two fairly long single line
>>> sections, plus long Absolute Block sections on the double track meaning it
>>> can't follow an IET too closely.
>>>
>>> I don't envy the job of Worcester Shrub Hill signaller having to shunt this
>>> train out of the way in an already very restricted layout. Or is the ECS
>>> running to Kidderminster?
>>>
>>
>> I was at Shrub Hill a few years ago, and I seem to recall that, after
>> unloading the passengers, a steam special just backed past the signal
>> box and into the siding on the south-west side of the line.
>>
>
> Propelling into the Long Siding would get the train out of the way to allow
> other services to pass; but to service and prep the loco and stock for the
> return journey would probably need shunting to the sidings on the opposite
> side of the station. I don't recall OTTOMH whether or not there are
> carriage watering hoses there.
>

This was the train in the sidings, preparing to return to Paddington, on a
previous occasion when I've been on this trip. The carriages had definitely
been watered during the break, but I don't know where:
<https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/18802468581/in/album-72157654485966226/>

Even for Mayflower, the BTP were in place to keep trespassers away from the
platform end:
<https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/18613714699/in/album-72157654485966226/>

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>> Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 16/02/2022 00:33, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>>>> Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 14/02/2022 21:16, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying Scotsman are
>>>>>> shown in RTT? I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I know
>>>>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised timings. The
>>>>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail and the
>>>>>> British
>>>>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>>>>>
>>>>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is not hard to estimate, to within about 15/30 minutes, the passing
>>>>> times at intermediate locations.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, at this time of year, on the return from Worcester, once the train
>>>>> has passed Cheltenham, it will be getting too dark for photography.
>>>>>
>>>>> On the outward journey, they will probably need a water stop, possibly
>>>>> in the Didcot / Oxford area, so expect it to be at Oxford at some time
>>>>> between 08:45 and 09:15. And it will need to cross one or more
>>>>> London-bound services at stations with passing loops, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No loops any more on that section of line, but two fairly long single line
>>>> sections, plus long Absolute Block sections on the double track meaning it
>>>> can't follow an IET too closely.
>>>>
>>>> I don't envy the job of Worcester Shrub Hill signaller having to shunt this
>>>> train out of the way in an already very restricted layout. Or is the ECS
>>>> running to Kidderminster?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I was at Shrub Hill a few years ago, and I seem to recall that, after
>>> unloading the passengers, a steam special just backed past the signal
>>> box and into the siding on the south-west side of the line.
>>>
>>
>> Propelling into the Long Siding would get the train out of the way to allow
>> other services to pass; but to service and prep the loco and stock for the
>> return journey would probably need shunting to the sidings on the opposite
>> side of the station. I don't recall OTTOMH whether or not there are
>> carriage watering hoses there.
>>
>
> This was the train in the sidings, preparing to return to Paddington, on a
> previous occasion when I've been on this trip. The carriages had definitely
> been watered during the break, but I don't know where:
> <https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/18802468581/in/album-72157654485966226/>
>
>

Aah, that's in the WMR diesel depot; we don't go in there and I sometimes
forget that it's available to use for such things! There will definitely be
equipment to water the carriages available there.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 14/02/2022 21:16, Recliner wrote:
>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying Scotsman are
>> shown in RTT? I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I know
>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised timings. The
>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>
>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>
>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>
>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail and the
>> British
>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>
>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>
> It is not hard to estimate, to within about 15/30 minutes, the passing
> times at intermediate locations.
>
> So, at this time of year, on the return from Worcester, once the train
> has passed Cheltenham, it will be getting too dark for photography.
>
> On the outward journey, they will probably need a water stop, possibly
> in the Didcot / Oxford area, so expect it to be at Oxford at some time
> between 08:45 and 09:15. And it will need to cross one or more
> London-bound services at stations with passing loops, etc.
>

So much for keeping the journey times secret — both journeys have now
appeared in RTT.