On 18/02/2022 11:32, Recliner wrote:
> Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 14/02/2022 21:16, Recliner wrote:
>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying Scotsman are
>>> shown in RTT? I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I know
>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised timings. The
>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>
>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>
>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>
>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail and the
>>> British
>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>>
>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>
>> It is not hard to estimate, to within about 15/30 minutes, the passing
>> times at intermediate locations.
>>
>> So, at this time of year, on the return from Worcester, once the train
>> has passed Cheltenham, it will be getting too dark for photography.
>>
>> On the outward journey, they will probably need a water stop, possibly
>> in the Didcot / Oxford area, so expect it to be at Oxford at some time
>> between 08:45 and 09:15. And it will need to cross one or more
>> London-bound services at stations with passing loops, etc.
>>
>
> So much for keeping the journey times secret — both journeys have now
> appeared in RTT.
>
I thought they might. It does keep the times out of the local press.

On Fri, 18 Feb 2022 12:07:56 +0000, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:

>On 18/02/2022 11:32, Recliner wrote:
>> Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 14/02/2022 21:16, Recliner wrote:
>>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying Scotsman are
>>>> shown in RTT? I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I know
>>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised timings. The
>>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>>
>>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>>
>>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail and the
>>>> British
>>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>>>
>>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>>
>>> It is not hard to estimate, to within about 15/30 minutes, the passing
>>> times at intermediate locations.
>>>
>>> So, at this time of year, on the return from Worcester, once the train
>>> has passed Cheltenham, it will be getting too dark for photography.
>>>
>>> On the outward journey, they will probably need a water stop, possibly
>>> in the Didcot / Oxford area, so expect it to be at Oxford at some time
>>> between 08:45 and 09:15. And it will need to cross one or more
>>> London-bound services at stations with passing loops, etc.
>>>
>>
>> So much for keeping the journey times secret — both journeys have now
>> appeared in RTT.
>>
>I thought they might. It does keep the times out of the local press.

Yes, I've been on other charters that only appeared in RTT the day before.

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 14/02/2022 21:16, Recliner wrote:
>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying Scotsman are
>>> shown in RTT? I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I know
>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised timings. The
>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>
>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>
>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>
>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail and the
>>> British
>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>>
>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>
>> It is not hard to estimate, to within about 15/30 minutes, the passing
>> times at intermediate locations.
>>
>> So, at this time of year, on the return from Worcester, once the train
>> has passed Cheltenham, it will be getting too dark for photography.
>>
>> On the outward journey, they will probably need a water stop, possibly
>> in the Didcot / Oxford area, so expect it to be at Oxford at some time
>> between 08:45 and 09:15. And it will need to cross one or more
>> London-bound services at stations with passing loops, etc.
>>
>
> So much for keeping the journey times secret — both journeys have now
> appeared in RTT.
>
>

<https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:WOS/2022-02-19/0000-2359?stp=VS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=WR>

(Anyone who claims "anything after the '?' in a URL is superfluous" should
try it out on that one!)

Water stop at Oxford Up/Down Passenger Loop (south of the station) on the
way out, West Drayton (?!) on the way back; shunts to Worcester Depot
between outward and return journey. Plenty of recovery allowance on the
return journey!

Anna Noyd-Dryver

On Fri, 18 Feb 2022 14:14:05 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:

>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 14/02/2022 21:16, Recliner wrote:
>>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying Scotsman are
>>>> shown in RTT? I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I know
>>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised timings. The
>>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>>
>>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>>
>>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail and the
>>>> British
>>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>>>
>>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>>
>>> It is not hard to estimate, to within about 15/30 minutes, the passing
>>> times at intermediate locations.
>>>
>>> So, at this time of year, on the return from Worcester, once the train
>>> has passed Cheltenham, it will be getting too dark for photography.
>>>
>>> On the outward journey, they will probably need a water stop, possibly
>>> in the Didcot / Oxford area, so expect it to be at Oxford at some time
>>> between 08:45 and 09:15. And it will need to cross one or more
>>> London-bound services at stations with passing loops, etc.
>>>
>>
>> So much for keeping the journey times secret — both journeys have now
>> appeared in RTT.
>>
>>
>
><https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:WOS/2022-02-19/0000-2359?stp=VS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=WR>
>
>(Anyone who claims "anything after the '?' in a URL is superfluous" should
>try it out on that one!)
>
>Water stop at Oxford Up/Down Passenger Loop (south of the station) on the
>way out, West Drayton (?!) on the way back; shunts to Worcester Depot
>between outward and return journey. Plenty of recovery allowance on the
>return journey!

And, for anyone who wonders how they turn the loco:
<https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U64040/2022-02-19/detailed>

It's interesting that they appear to turn the whole train, not just the steam loco and support coach. I wonder, will
all of this shunting be done purely using FS, or will they 'borrow' a local diesel loco to help? I don't think the WCR
diesel will have been attached to the train from London, as its light loco moves to and from Southall are in RTT.

Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 14/02/2022 21:16, Recliner wrote:
>>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying Scotsman are
>>>> shown in RTT? I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I know
>>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised timings. The
>>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>>
>>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>>
>>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail and the
>>>> British
>>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>>>
>>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>>
>>> It is not hard to estimate, to within about 15/30 minutes, the passing
>>> times at intermediate locations.
>>>
>>> So, at this time of year, on the return from Worcester, once the train
>>> has passed Cheltenham, it will be getting too dark for photography.
>>>
>>> On the outward journey, they will probably need a water stop, possibly
>>> in the Didcot / Oxford area, so expect it to be at Oxford at some time
>>> between 08:45 and 09:15. And it will need to cross one or more
>>> London-bound services at stations with passing loops, etc.
>>>
>>
>> So much for keeping the journey times secret — both journeys have now
>> appeared in RTT.
>>
>>
>
> <https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:WOS/2022-02-19/0000-2359?stp=VS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=WR>
>
> (Anyone who claims "anything after the '?' in a URL is superfluous" should
> try it out on that one!)
>
> Water stop at Oxford Up/Down Passenger Loop (south of the station) on the
> way out, West Drayton (?!) on the way back;

Are there not three possible water stops on the return?
Kemble, Milton Junction and West Drayton?

I might bale out at West Drayton.

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Feb 2022 14:14:05 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 14/02/2022 21:16, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying Scotsman are
>>>>> shown in RTT? I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I know
>>>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised timings. The
>>>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>>>
>>>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>>>
>>>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail and the
>>>>> British
>>>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>>>>
>>>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>>>
>>>> It is not hard to estimate, to within about 15/30 minutes, the passing
>>>> times at intermediate locations.
>>>>
>>>> So, at this time of year, on the return from Worcester, once the train
>>>> has passed Cheltenham, it will be getting too dark for photography.
>>>>
>>>> On the outward journey, they will probably need a water stop, possibly
>>>> in the Didcot / Oxford area, so expect it to be at Oxford at some time
>>>> between 08:45 and 09:15. And it will need to cross one or more
>>>> London-bound services at stations with passing loops, etc.
>>>>
>>>
>>> So much for keeping the journey times secret — both journeys have now
>>> appeared in RTT.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> <https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:WOS/2022-02-19/0000-2359?stp=VS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=WR>
>>
>> (Anyone who claims "anything after the '?' in a URL is superfluous" should
>> try it out on that one!)
>>
>> Water stop at Oxford Up/Down Passenger Loop (south of the station) on the
>> way out, West Drayton (?!) on the way back; shunts to Worcester Depot
>> between outward and return journey. Plenty of recovery allowance on the
>> return journey!
>
> And, for anyone who wonders how they turn the loco:
> <https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U64040/2022-02-19/detailed>
>
> It's interesting that they appear to turn the whole train, not just the
> steam loco and support coach. I wonder, will
> all of this shunting be done purely using FS, or will they 'borrow' a
> local diesel loco to help? I don't think the WCR
> diesel will have been attached to the train from London, as its light
> loco moves to and from Southall are in RTT.
>

I suspect that it will be just the loco with or without support coach.
Propelling a whole train over the distances involved just isn't permitted
(other than certain locations with very specific exceptions).

Also the fact that it leaves the depot at the opposite end than it arrived,
then immediately comes back to Shrub Hill, suggests it's the loco leaving
the train behind. Same at the end of the movements, Tunnel Jn -> Shrub Hill
-> depot rather than straight on to depot from Tunnel Jn suggests it's
getting to the right end of the train. The shunt behind 54 signal is odd,
perhaps to get around other trains in the vicinity.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 14/02/2022 21:16, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying Scotsman are
>>>>> shown in RTT? I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I know
>>>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised timings. The
>>>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>>>
>>>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>>>
>>>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail and the
>>>>> British
>>>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>>>>
>>>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>>>
>>>> It is not hard to estimate, to within about 15/30 minutes, the passing
>>>> times at intermediate locations.
>>>>
>>>> So, at this time of year, on the return from Worcester, once the train
>>>> has passed Cheltenham, it will be getting too dark for photography.
>>>>
>>>> On the outward journey, they will probably need a water stop, possibly
>>>> in the Didcot / Oxford area, so expect it to be at Oxford at some time
>>>> between 08:45 and 09:15. And it will need to cross one or more
>>>> London-bound services at stations with passing loops, etc.
>>>>
>>>
>>> So much for keeping the journey times secret — both journeys have now
>>> appeared in RTT.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> <https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:WOS/2022-02-19/0000-2359?stp=VS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=WR>
>>
>> (Anyone who claims "anything after the '?' in a URL is superfluous" should
>> try it out on that one!)
>>
>> Water stop at Oxford Up/Down Passenger Loop (south of the station) on the
>> way out, West Drayton (?!) on the way back;
>
> Are there not three possible water stops on the return?
> Kemble, Milton Junction and West Drayton?
>
> I might bale out at West Drayton.
>

Is 12 minutes long enough for a water stop? I don't think there's
sufficient access from a road at Milton for example.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

On 18/02/2022 14:50, Recliner wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Feb 2022 14:14:05 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 14/02/2022 21:16, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying Scotsman are
>>>>> shown in RTT? I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I know
>>>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised timings. The
>>>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>>>
>>>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>>>
>>>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail and the
>>>>> British
>>>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>>>>
>>>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>>>
>>>> It is not hard to estimate, to within about 15/30 minutes, the passing
>>>> times at intermediate locations.
>>>>
>>>> So, at this time of year, on the return from Worcester, once the train
>>>> has passed Cheltenham, it will be getting too dark for photography.
>>>>
>>>> On the outward journey, they will probably need a water stop, possibly
>>>> in the Didcot / Oxford area, so expect it to be at Oxford at some time
>>>> between 08:45 and 09:15. And it will need to cross one or more
>>>> London-bound services at stations with passing loops, etc.
>>>>
>>>
>>> So much for keeping the journey times secret — both journeys have now
>>> appeared in RTT.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> <https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:WOS/2022-02-19/0000-2359?stp=VS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=WR>
>>
>> (Anyone who claims "anything after the '?' in a URL is superfluous" should
>> try it out on that one!)
>>
>> Water stop at Oxford Up/Down Passenger Loop (south of the station) on the
>> way out, West Drayton (?!) on the way back; shunts to Worcester Depot
>> between outward and return journey. Plenty of recovery allowance on the
>> return journey!
>
> And, for anyone who wonders how they turn the loco:
> <https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U64040/2022-02-19/detailed>
>
> It's interesting that they appear to turn the whole train, not just the steam loco and support coach. I wonder, will
> all of this shunting be done purely using FS, or will they 'borrow' a local diesel loco to help? I don't think the WCR
> diesel will have been attached to the train from London, as its light loco moves to and from Southall are in RTT.

Worcester does not have any "local" locos - just a few dmus. There will
probably be a West coast Rail Class 47 or 57 tacked onto the rear of the
train from Paddington -- probably the same loco that takes the empty
stock into Paddington.

(And assuming that Storm Eunice has not put too many trees onto the
route.....)

Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 18/02/2022 14:50, Recliner wrote:
>> On Fri, 18 Feb 2022 14:14:05 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 14/02/2022 21:16, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying Scotsman are
>>>>>> shown in RTT? I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I know
>>>>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised timings. The
>>>>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail and the
>>>>>> British
>>>>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>>>>>
>>>>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is not hard to estimate, to within about 15/30 minutes, the passing
>>>>> times at intermediate locations.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, at this time of year, on the return from Worcester, once the train
>>>>> has passed Cheltenham, it will be getting too dark for photography.
>>>>>
>>>>> On the outward journey, they will probably need a water stop, possibly
>>>>> in the Didcot / Oxford area, so expect it to be at Oxford at some time
>>>>> between 08:45 and 09:15. And it will need to cross one or more
>>>>> London-bound services at stations with passing loops, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So much for keeping the journey times secret — both journeys have now
>>>> appeared in RTT.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> <https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:WOS/2022-02-19/0000-2359?stp=VS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=WR>
>>>
>>> (Anyone who claims "anything after the '?' in a URL is superfluous" should
>>> try it out on that one!)
>>>
>>> Water stop at Oxford Up/Down Passenger Loop (south of the station) on the
>>> way out, West Drayton (?!) on the way back; shunts to Worcester Depot
>>> between outward and return journey. Plenty of recovery allowance on the
>>> return journey!
>>
>> And, for anyone who wonders how they turn the loco:
>> <https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U64040/2022-02-19/detailed>
>>
>> It's interesting that they appear to turn the whole train, not just the
>> steam loco and support coach. I wonder, will
>> all of this shunting be done purely using FS, or will they 'borrow' a
>> local diesel loco to help? I don't think the WCR
>> diesel will have been attached to the train from London, as its light
>> loco moves to and from Southall are in RTT.
>
> Worcester does not have any "local" locos - just a few dmus. There will
> probably be a West coast Rail Class 47 or 57 tacked onto the rear of the
> train from Paddington -- probably the same loco that takes the empty
> stock into Paddington.

No, RTT shows the light loco move to Southall after the departure of the
steam train, and back to Paddington after the steam train returns.

>
> (And assuming that Storm Eunice has not put too many trees onto the
> route.....)

The operators sent an email saying it's still scheduled to run.

Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 18 Feb 2022 14:14:05 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 14/02/2022 21:16, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying Scotsman are
>>>>>> shown in RTT? I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I know
>>>>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised timings. The
>>>>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail and the
>>>>>> British
>>>>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>>>>>
>>>>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is not hard to estimate, to within about 15/30 minutes, the passing
>>>>> times at intermediate locations.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, at this time of year, on the return from Worcester, once the train
>>>>> has passed Cheltenham, it will be getting too dark for photography.
>>>>>
>>>>> On the outward journey, they will probably need a water stop, possibly
>>>>> in the Didcot / Oxford area, so expect it to be at Oxford at some time
>>>>> between 08:45 and 09:15. And it will need to cross one or more
>>>>> London-bound services at stations with passing loops, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So much for keeping the journey times secret — both journeys have now
>>>> appeared in RTT.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> <https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:WOS/2022-02-19/0000-2359?stp=VS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=WR>
>>>
>>> (Anyone who claims "anything after the '?' in a URL is superfluous" should
>>> try it out on that one!)
>>>
>>> Water stop at Oxford Up/Down Passenger Loop (south of the station) on the
>>> way out, West Drayton (?!) on the way back; shunts to Worcester Depot
>>> between outward and return journey. Plenty of recovery allowance on the
>>> return journey!
>>
>> And, for anyone who wonders how they turn the loco:
>> <https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U64040/2022-02-19/detailed>
>>
>> It's interesting that they appear to turn the whole train, not just the
>> steam loco and support coach. I wonder, will
>> all of this shunting be done purely using FS, or will they 'borrow' a
>> local diesel loco to help? I don't think the WCR
>> diesel will have been attached to the train from London, as its light
>> loco moves to and from Southall are in RTT.
>>
>
> I suspect that it will be just the loco with or without support coach.
> Propelling a whole train over the distances involved just isn't permitted
> (other than certain locations with very specific exceptions).
>
> Also the fact that it leaves the depot at the opposite end than it arrived,
> then immediately comes back to Shrub Hill, suggests it's the loco leaving
> the train behind. Same at the end of the movements, Tunnel Jn -> Shrub Hill
> -> depot rather than straight on to depot from Tunnel Jn suggests it's
> getting to the right end of the train. The shunt behind 54 signal is odd,
> perhaps to get around other trains in the vicinity.
>

Yes, that makes sense. I was going by the 'trailing load 715 tonnes' on the
ECS (not light loco) moves round the triangle. I thought that, in any case,
the support coach stayed attached to the tender?

Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 18/02/2022 14:50, Recliner wrote:
>> On Fri, 18 Feb 2022 14:14:05 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 14/02/2022 21:16, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying Scotsman are
>>>>>> shown in RTT? I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I know
>>>>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised timings. The
>>>>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail and the
>>>>>> British
>>>>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>>>>>
>>>>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is not hard to estimate, to within about 15/30 minutes, the passing
>>>>> times at intermediate locations.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, at this time of year, on the return from Worcester, once the train
>>>>> has passed Cheltenham, it will be getting too dark for photography.
>>>>>
>>>>> On the outward journey, they will probably need a water stop, possibly
>>>>> in the Didcot / Oxford area, so expect it to be at Oxford at some time
>>>>> between 08:45 and 09:15. And it will need to cross one or more
>>>>> London-bound services at stations with passing loops, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So much for keeping the journey times secret — both journeys have now
>>>> appeared in RTT.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> <https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:WOS/2022-02-19/0000-2359?stp=VS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=WR>
>>>
>>> (Anyone who claims "anything after the '?' in a URL is superfluous" should
>>> try it out on that one!)
>>>
>>> Water stop at Oxford Up/Down Passenger Loop (south of the station) on the
>>> way out, West Drayton (?!) on the way back; shunts to Worcester Depot
>>> between outward and return journey. Plenty of recovery allowance on the
>>> return journey!
>>
>> And, for anyone who wonders how they turn the loco:
>> <https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U64040/2022-02-19/detailed>
>>
>> It's interesting that they appear to turn the whole train, not just the
>> steam loco and support coach. I wonder, will
>> all of this shunting be done purely using FS, or will they 'borrow' a
>> local diesel loco to help? I don't think the WCR
>> diesel will have been attached to the train from London, as its light
>> loco moves to and from Southall are in RTT.
>
> Worcester does not have any "local" locos - just a few dmus. There will
> probably be a West coast Rail Class 47 or 57 tacked onto the rear of the
> train from Paddington -- probably the same loco that takes the empty
> stock into Paddington.
>
> (And assuming that Storm Eunice has not put too many trees onto the
> route.....)
>
>

There are paths to/from Southall for that loco, suggesting that it doesn't
run through with the stock. I think the train weight for the turning
movement is an input error.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 18 Feb 2022 14:14:05 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 14/02/2022 21:16, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying Scotsman are
>>>>>>> shown in RTT? I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I know
>>>>>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised timings. The
>>>>>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail and the
>>>>>>> British
>>>>>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is not hard to estimate, to within about 15/30 minutes, the passing
>>>>>> times at intermediate locations.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, at this time of year, on the return from Worcester, once the train
>>>>>> has passed Cheltenham, it will be getting too dark for photography.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On the outward journey, they will probably need a water stop, possibly
>>>>>> in the Didcot / Oxford area, so expect it to be at Oxford at some time
>>>>>> between 08:45 and 09:15. And it will need to cross one or more
>>>>>> London-bound services at stations with passing loops, etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So much for keeping the journey times secret — both journeys have now
>>>>> appeared in RTT.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:WOS/2022-02-19/0000-2359?stp=VS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=WR>
>>>>
>>>> (Anyone who claims "anything after the '?' in a URL is superfluous" should
>>>> try it out on that one!)
>>>>
>>>> Water stop at Oxford Up/Down Passenger Loop (south of the station) on the
>>>> way out, West Drayton (?!) on the way back; shunts to Worcester Depot
>>>> between outward and return journey. Plenty of recovery allowance on the
>>>> return journey!
>>>
>>> And, for anyone who wonders how they turn the loco:
>>> <https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U64040/2022-02-19/detailed>
>>>
>>> It's interesting that they appear to turn the whole train, not just the
>>> steam loco and support coach. I wonder, will
>>> all of this shunting be done purely using FS, or will they 'borrow' a
>>> local diesel loco to help? I don't think the WCR
>>> diesel will have been attached to the train from London, as its light
>>> loco moves to and from Southall are in RTT.
>>>
>>
>> I suspect that it will be just the loco with or without support coach.
>> Propelling a whole train over the distances involved just isn't permitted
>> (other than certain locations with very specific exceptions).
>>
>> Also the fact that it leaves the depot at the opposite end than it arrived,
>> then immediately comes back to Shrub Hill, suggests it's the loco leaving
>> the train behind. Same at the end of the movements, Tunnel Jn -> Shrub Hill
>> -> depot rather than straight on to depot from Tunnel Jn suggests it's
>> getting to the right end of the train. The shunt behind 54 signal is odd,
>> perhaps to get around other trains in the vicinity.
>>
>
> Yes, that makes sense. I was going by the 'trailing load 715 tonnes' on the
> ECS (not light loco) moves round the triangle.

I strongly suspect that's a mistake.

> I thought that, in any case,
> the support coach stayed attached to the tender?
>

You'll be able to tell us tomorrow ;)

I would expect that the loco could do something like the turning movement
without support coach, but then you have the problem of getting that to the
correct end of the train too.

At Worcester you could achieve that via a nifty move through the centre
siding each time, as long as there isn't a WM unit stabled there; then
you'd need to propel for much less distance. It'd involve shunting via 54
signal each time, though which isn't booked.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 14/02/2022 21:16, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying Scotsman are
>>>>>> shown in RTT? I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I know
>>>>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised timings. The
>>>>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail and the
>>>>>> British
>>>>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>>>>>
>>>>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is not hard to estimate, to within about 15/30 minutes, the passing
>>>>> times at intermediate locations.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, at this time of year, on the return from Worcester, once the train
>>>>> has passed Cheltenham, it will be getting too dark for photography.
>>>>>
>>>>> On the outward journey, they will probably need a water stop, possibly
>>>>> in the Didcot / Oxford area, so expect it to be at Oxford at some time
>>>>> between 08:45 and 09:15. And it will need to cross one or more
>>>>> London-bound services at stations with passing loops, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So much for keeping the journey times secret — both journeys have now
>>>> appeared in RTT.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> <https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:WOS/2022-02-19/0000-2359?stp=VS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=WR>
>>>
>>> (Anyone who claims "anything after the '?' in a URL is superfluous" should
>>> try it out on that one!)
>>>
>>> Water stop at Oxford Up/Down Passenger Loop (south of the station) on the
>>> way out, West Drayton (?!) on the way back;
>>
>> Are there not three possible water stops on the return?
>> Kemble, Milton Junction and West Drayton?
>>
>> I might bale out at West Drayton.
>>
>
> Is 12 minutes long enough for a water stop? I don't think there's
> sufficient access from a road at Milton for example.

At least one of them must be a water stop, and WCR is very slick with its
splash and dash stops.

Graham Harrison <edward.harrisom.one@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 21:16:53 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying Scotsman are
>> shown in RTT? I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I know
>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised timings. The
>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>
>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>
>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>
>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail and the
>> British
>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we would appreciate it if you could
>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>
> I just received a message to say it's been cancelled.
>

Ah, yes, you're right, thanks for the warning. I've not yet received an
email to that effect, but it's on the website:

https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Graham Harrison <edward.harrisom.one@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 21:16:53 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying Scotsman are
>>> shown in RTT? I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I know
>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised timings. The
>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>
>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022 " rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>
>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>
>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail and the
>>> British
>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>
>> I just received a message to say it's been cancelled.
>>
>
> Ah, yes, you're right, thanks for the warning. I've not yet received an
> email to that effect, but it's on the website:
>
> https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022

Found the email:

Cotswold Venturer - Urgent Update - Tour Cancelled

We have just been informed that despite the best efforts of the Network
Rail Charter Division in monitoring the situation throughout the day and
looking at alternative routing in case the original route was not possible
for our train, the Regional Network Rail Route Director has this evening
made the decision to cancel our Cotswold Venturer train tomorrow.

We are very sorry for the late notice of this cancellation, which is
outside of our control, and we apologise for any disappointment it may
cause, everyone involved had worked together in the hope that the train
would be able to take place tomorrow.

We are now working with our operating company, West Coast Railways, Network
Rail and the caretakers of Flying Scotsman to try and redate the tour in
March and will be in touch with you as soon as we have a firm date for this
rescheduling. Should the new date not be convenient for you, then you will
be entitled to transfer your funds to a different tour or to receive a full
refund of monies paid to us.

Your patience at this time will be appreciated whilst we make the necessary
arrangements, we will be in touch with you again in the coming days to
advise further.

Once again our sincere apologies for any inconvenience.

—————

I wonder how much this will cost the FS operation (NRM?), WCR, RTC and
Gravy Train (caterers), and wonder if NR covers some or all of the costs?

I don't have any wasted travel or hotel costs, but I'm sure many of the
other would-be passengers will have.

On 18/02/2022 22:06, Recliner wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Graham Harrison <edward.harrisom.one@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 21:16:53 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying Scotsman are
>>>> shown in RTT? I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I know
>>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised timings. The
>>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022 " rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>>
>>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>>
>>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail and the
>>>> British
>>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>>
>>> I just received a message to say it's been cancelled.
>>>
>>
>> Ah, yes, you're right, thanks for the warning. I've not yet received an
>> email to that effect, but it's on the website:
>>
>> https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022
>
> Found the email:
>
> Cotswold Venturer - Urgent Update - Tour Cancelled
>
> We have just been informed that despite the best efforts of the Network
> Rail Charter Division in monitoring the situation throughout the day and
> looking at alternative routing in case the original route was not possible
> for our train, the Regional Network Rail Route Director has this evening
> made the decision to cancel our Cotswold Venturer train tomorrow.
>
> We are very sorry for the late notice of this cancellation, which is
> outside of our control, and we apologise for any disappointment it may
> cause, everyone involved had worked together in the hope that the train
> would be able to take place tomorrow.
>
> We are now working with our operating company, West Coast Railways, Network
> Rail and the caretakers of Flying Scotsman to try and redate the tour in
> March and will be in touch with you as soon as we have a firm date for this
> rescheduling. Should the new date not be convenient for you, then you will
> be entitled to transfer your funds to a different tour or to receive a full
> refund of monies paid to us.
>
> Your patience at this time will be appreciated whilst we make the necessary
> arrangements, we will be in touch with you again in the coming days to
> advise further.
>
> Once again our sincere apologies for any inconvenience.
>
>
> —————
>
> I wonder how much this will cost the FS operation (NRM?), WCR, RTC and
> Gravy Train (caterers), and wonder if NR covers some or all of the costs?
>
> I don't have any wasted travel or hotel costs, but I'm sure many of the
> other would-be passengers will have.
>
I suspect some will already be in their hotel without access to their
email. I hope there are not too many disappointments at the calling
points tomorrow.

On 18/02/2022 22:06, Recliner wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Graham Harrison <edward.harrisom.one@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 21:16:53 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying Scotsman are
>>>> shown in RTT? I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I know
>>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised timings. The
>>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022 " rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>>
>>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>>
>>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail and the
>>>> British
>>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>>
>>> I just received a message to say it's been cancelled.
>>>
>>
>> Ah, yes, you're right, thanks for the warning. I've not yet received an
>> email to that effect, but it's on the website:
>>
>> https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022
>
> Found the email:
>
> Cotswold Venturer - Urgent Update - Tour Cancelled
>
> We have just been informed that despite the best efforts of the Network
> Rail Charter Division in monitoring the situation throughout the day and
> looking at alternative routing in case the original route was not possible
> for our train, the Regional Network Rail Route Director has this evening
> made the decision to cancel our Cotswold Venturer train tomorrow.
>
> We are very sorry for the late notice of this cancellation, which is
> outside of our control, and we apologise for any disappointment it may
> cause, everyone involved had worked together in the hope that the train
> would be able to take place tomorrow.
>
> We are now working with our operating company, West Coast Railways, Network
> Rail and the caretakers of Flying Scotsman to try and redate the tour in
> March and will be in touch with you as soon as we have a firm date for this
> rescheduling. Should the new date not be convenient for you, then you will
> be entitled to transfer your funds to a different tour or to receive a full
> refund of monies paid to us.
>
> Your patience at this time will be appreciated whilst we make the necessary
> arrangements, we will be in touch with you again in the coming days to
> advise further.
>
> Once again our sincere apologies for any inconvenience.
>
>
> —————
>
> I wonder how much this will cost the FS operation (NRM?), WCR, RTC and
> Gravy Train (caterers), and wonder if NR covers some or all of the costs?
>
> I don't have any wasted travel or hotel costs, but I'm sure many of the
> other would-be passengers will have.
>

I suspect some will already be in their hotel without access to their
email and perhaps unaware. I hope there are not too many
disappointments at the departure points tomorrow.

<martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
> On 18/02/2022 22:06, Recliner wrote:
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Graham Harrison <edward.harrisom.one@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 21:16:53 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying Scotsman are
>>>>> shown in RTT? I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I know
>>>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised timings. The
>>>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022 " rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>>>
>>>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>>>
>>>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail and the
>>>>> British
>>>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>>>
>>>> I just received a message to say it's been cancelled.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Ah, yes, you're right, thanks for the warning. I've not yet received an
>>> email to that effect, but it's on the website:
>>>
>>> https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022
>>
>> Found the email:
>>
>> Cotswold Venturer - Urgent Update - Tour Cancelled
>>
>> We have just been informed that despite the best efforts of the Network
>> Rail Charter Division in monitoring the situation throughout the day and
>> looking at alternative routing in case the original route was not possible
>> for our train, the Regional Network Rail Route Director has this evening
>> made the decision to cancel our Cotswold Venturer train tomorrow.
>>
>> We are very sorry for the late notice of this cancellation, which is
>> outside of our control, and we apologise for any disappointment it may
>> cause, everyone involved had worked together in the hope that the train
>> would be able to take place tomorrow.
>>
>> We are now working with our operating company, West Coast Railways, Network
>> Rail and the caretakers of Flying Scotsman to try and redate the tour in
>> March and will be in touch with you as soon as we have a firm date for this
>> rescheduling. Should the new date not be convenient for you, then you will
>> be entitled to transfer your funds to a different tour or to receive a full
>> refund of monies paid to us.
>>
>> Your patience at this time will be appreciated whilst we make the necessary
>> arrangements, we will be in touch with you again in the coming days to
>> advise further.
>>
>> Once again our sincere apologies for any inconvenience.
>>
>>
>> —————
>>
>> I wonder how much this will cost the FS operation (NRM?), WCR, RTC and
>> Gravy Train (caterers), and wonder if NR covers some or all of the costs?
>>
>> I don't have any wasted travel or hotel costs, but I'm sure many of the
>> other would-be passengers will have.
>>
>
> I suspect some will already be in their hotel without access to their
> email and perhaps unaware. I hope there are not too many
> disappointments at the departure points tomorrow.
>

Yes, there's bound to be some people who show up without knowing of the
cancellation. However, one hopes most would have at least checked the web
site, being well aware of the extensive disruption across the network.

I can understand that NR didn't want the additional disruption of a slow,
thirsty steamer (with the attendant spotters) while it tries to recover
tomorrow.

<martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
> On 18/02/2022 22:06, Recliner wrote:
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Graham Harrison <edward.harrisom.one@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 21:16:53 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying Scotsman are
>>>>> shown in RTT? I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I know
>>>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised timings. The
>>>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022 " rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>>>
>>>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>>>
>>>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail and the
>>>>> British
>>>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>>>
>>>> I just received a message to say it's been cancelled.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Ah, yes, you're right, thanks for the warning. I've not yet received an
>>> email to that effect, but it's on the website:
>>>
>>> https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022
>>
>> Found the email:
>>
>> Cotswold Venturer - Urgent Update - Tour Cancelled
>>
>> We have just been informed that despite the best efforts of the Network
>> Rail Charter Division in monitoring the situation throughout the day and
>> looking at alternative routing in case the original route was not possible
>> for our train, the Regional Network Rail Route Director has this evening
>> made the decision to cancel our Cotswold Venturer train tomorrow.
>>
>> We are very sorry for the late notice of this cancellation, which is
>> outside of our control, and we apologise for any disappointment it may
>> cause, everyone involved had worked together in the hope that the train
>> would be able to take place tomorrow.
>>
>> We are now working with our operating company, West Coast Railways, Network
>> Rail and the caretakers of Flying Scotsman to try and redate the tour in
>> March and will be in touch with you as soon as we have a firm date for this
>> rescheduling. Should the new date not be convenient for you, then you will
>> be entitled to transfer your funds to a different tour or to receive a full
>> refund of monies paid to us.
>>
>> Your patience at this time will be appreciated whilst we make the necessary
>> arrangements, we will be in touch with you again in the coming days to
>> advise further.
>>
>> Once again our sincere apologies for any inconvenience.
>>
>>
>> —————
>>
>> I wonder how much this will cost the FS operation (NRM?), WCR, RTC and
>> Gravy Train (caterers), and wonder if NR covers some or all of the costs?
>>
>> I don't have any wasted travel or hotel costs, but I'm sure many of the
>> other would-be passengers will have.
>>
>
> I suspect some will already be in their hotel without access to their
> email and perhaps unaware. I hope there are not too many
> disappointments at the departure points tomorrow.
>

Spotted this video of FS steaming south on Thursday for its cancelled tour:
https://youtu.be/VQLMvu7AGa4

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>> On 18/02/2022 22:06, Recliner wrote:
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Graham Harrison <edward.harrisom.one@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 21:16:53 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying Scotsman are
>>>>>> shown in RTT? I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I know
>>>>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised timings. The
>>>>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022 " rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail and the
>>>>>> British
>>>>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>>>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>>>>
>>>>> I just received a message to say it's been cancelled.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ah, yes, you're right, thanks for the warning. I've not yet received an
>>>> email to that effect, but it's on the website:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022
>>>
>>> Found the email:
>>>
>>> Cotswold Venturer - Urgent Update - Tour Cancelled
>>>
>>> We have just been informed that despite the best efforts of the Network
>>> Rail Charter Division in monitoring the situation throughout the day and
>>> looking at alternative routing in case the original route was not possible
>>> for our train, the Regional Network Rail Route Director has this evening
>>> made the decision to cancel our Cotswold Venturer train tomorrow.
>>>
>>> We are very sorry for the late notice of this cancellation, which is
>>> outside of our control, and we apologise for any disappointment it may
>>> cause, everyone involved had worked together in the hope that the train
>>> would be able to take place tomorrow.
>>>
>>> We are now working with our operating company, West Coast Railways, Network
>>> Rail and the caretakers of Flying Scotsman to try and redate the tour in
>>> March and will be in touch with you as soon as we have a firm date for this
>>> rescheduling. Should the new date not be convenient for you, then you will
>>> be entitled to transfer your funds to a different tour or to receive a full
>>> refund of monies paid to us.
>>>
>>> Your patience at this time will be appreciated whilst we make the necessary
>>> arrangements, we will be in touch with you again in the coming days to
>>> advise further.
>>>
>>> Once again our sincere apologies for any inconvenience.
>>>
>>>
>>> —————
>>>
>>> I wonder how much this will cost the FS operation (NRM?), WCR, RTC and
>>> Gravy Train (caterers), and wonder if NR covers some or all of the costs?
>>>
>>> I don't have any wasted travel or hotel costs, but I'm sure many of the
>>> other would-be passengers will have.
>>>
>>
>> I suspect some will already be in their hotel without access to their
>> email and perhaps unaware. I hope there are not too many
>> disappointments at the departure points tomorrow.
>>
>
> Yes, there's bound to be some people who show up without knowing of the
> cancellation. However, one hopes most would have at least checked the web
> site, being well aware of the extensive disruption across the network.
>
> I can understand that NR didn't want the additional disruption of a slow,
> thirsty steamer (with the attendant spotters) while it tries to recover
> tomorrow.
>
>

After yesterday you’d be nuts not to take steps to check the train was
still operating today.

In message <65ca4f35-8df0-603f-1dd4-f9ffb4df0765@round-midnight.org.uk>,
at 22:26:06 on Fri, 18 Feb 2022, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk
remarked:

>> I don't have any wasted travel or hotel costs, but I'm sure many of
>>the other would-be passengers will have.
>>
>I suspect some will already be in their hotel without access to their
>email.

Left their smartphones at home?

While my scepticism that enrolling in a booking site, buying a £2.50
ticket, downloading and displaying a PDF, using an app is well known;
a trip of this magnitude and cost is well worth using an email address
associated with a phone.

>I hope there are not too many disappointments at the calling points
>tomorrow.

--
Roland Perry

On 18/02/2022 22:06, Recliner wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Graham Harrison <edward.harrisom.one@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 21:16:53 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying Scotsman are
>>>> shown in RTT? I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I know
>>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised timings. The
>>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022 " rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>>
>>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>>
>>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail and the
>>>> British
>>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>>
>>> I just received a message to say it's been cancelled.
>>>
>>
>> Ah, yes, you're right, thanks for the warning. I've not yet received an
>> email to that effect, but it's on the website:
>>
>> https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022
>
> Found the email:
>
> Cotswold Venturer - Urgent Update - Tour Cancelled
>
> We have just been informed that despite the best efforts of the Network
> Rail Charter Division in monitoring the situation throughout the day and
> looking at alternative routing in case the original route was not possible
> for our train, the Regional Network Rail Route Director has this evening
> made the decision to cancel our Cotswold Venturer train tomorrow.
>
> We are very sorry for the late notice of this cancellation, which is
> outside of our control, and we apologise for any disappointment it may
> cause, everyone involved had worked together in the hope that the train
> would be able to take place tomorrow.
>
> We are now working with our operating company, West Coast Railways, Network
> Rail and the caretakers of Flying Scotsman to try and redate the tour in
> March and will be in touch with you as soon as we have a firm date for this
> rescheduling. Should the new date not be convenient for you, then you will
> be entitled to transfer your funds to a different tour or to receive a full
> refund of monies paid to us.
>
> Your patience at this time will be appreciated whilst we make the necessary
> arrangements, we will be in touch with you again in the coming days to
> advise further.
>
> Once again our sincere apologies for any inconvenience.
>
>
> —————
>
> I wonder how much this will cost the FS operation (NRM?), WCR, RTC and
> Gravy Train (caterers), and wonder if NR covers some or all of the costs?
>
> I don't have any wasted travel or hotel costs, but I'm sure many of the
> other would-be passengers will have.
>

Act of God invoked presumably.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 18/02/2022 22:28, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
> On 18/02/2022 22:06, Recliner wrote:
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Graham Harrison <edward.harrisom.one@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 21:16:53 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying Scotsman
>>>>> are
>>>>> shown in RTT?  I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I
>>>>> know
>>>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised
>>>>> timings. The
>>>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022 " rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>>>
>>>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>>>
>>>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail and the
>>>>>
>>>>> British
>>>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>>>>
>>>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>>>
>>>> I just received a message to say it's been cancelled.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Ah, yes, you're right, thanks for the warning. I've not yet received an
>>> email to that effect, but it's on the website:
>>>
>>> https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022
>>
>> Found the email:
>>
>> Cotswold Venturer - Urgent Update - Tour Cancelled
>>
>> We have just been informed that despite the best efforts of the Network
>> Rail Charter Division in monitoring the situation throughout the day and
>> looking at alternative routing in case the original route was not
>> possible
>> for our train, the Regional Network Rail Route Director has this evening
>> made the decision to cancel our Cotswold Venturer train tomorrow.
>>
>> We are very sorry for the late notice of this cancellation, which is
>> outside of our control, and we apologise for any disappointment it may
>> cause, everyone involved had worked together in the hope that the train
>> would be able to take place tomorrow.
>>
>> We are now working with our operating company, West Coast Railways,
>> Network
>> Rail and the caretakers of Flying Scotsman to try and redate the tour in
>> March and will be in touch with you as soon as we have a firm date for
>> this
>> rescheduling. Should the new date not be convenient for you, then you
>> will
>> be entitled to transfer your funds to a different tour or to receive a
>> full
>> refund of monies paid to us.
>>
>> Your patience at this time will be appreciated whilst we make the
>> necessary
>> arrangements, we will be in touch with you again in the coming days to
>> advise further.
>>
>> Once again our sincere apologies for any inconvenience.
>>
>>
>> —————
>>
>> I wonder how much this will cost the FS operation (NRM?), WCR, RTC and
>> Gravy Train (caterers), and wonder if NR covers some or all of the costs?
>>
>> I don't have any wasted travel or hotel costs, but I'm sure many of the
>> other would-be passengers will have.
>>
>
> I suspect some will already be in their hotel without access to their
> email and perhaps unaware.  I hope there are not too many
> disappointments at the departure points tomorrow.

The sort of people who can afford these trips won't have access to email
from their hotels? Seriously?

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 19/02/2022 08:29, Graeme Wall wrote:
> On 18/02/2022 22:28, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>> On 18/02/2022 22:06, Recliner wrote:
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Graham Harrison <edward.harrisom.one@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 21:16:53 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying
>>>>>> Scotsman are
>>>>>> shown in RTT?  I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I
>>>>>> know
>>>>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised
>>>>>> timings. The
>>>>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022 " rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail and the
>>>>>>
>>>>>> British
>>>>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>>>>>
>>>>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>>>>
>>>>> I just received a message to say it's been cancelled.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ah, yes, you're right, thanks for the warning. I've not yet received an
>>>> email to that effect, but it's on the website:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022
>>>
>>> Found the email:
>>>
>>> Cotswold Venturer - Urgent Update - Tour Cancelled
>>>
>>> We have just been informed that despite the best efforts of the Network
>>> Rail Charter Division in monitoring the situation throughout the day and
>>> looking at alternative routing in case the original route was not
>>> possible
>>> for our train, the Regional Network Rail Route Director has this evening
>>> made the decision to cancel our Cotswold Venturer train tomorrow.
>>>
>>> We are very sorry for the late notice of this cancellation, which is
>>> outside of our control, and we apologise for any disappointment it may
>>> cause, everyone involved had worked together in the hope that the train
>>> would be able to take place tomorrow.
>>>
>>> We are now working with our operating company, West Coast Railways,
>>> Network
>>> Rail and the caretakers of Flying Scotsman to try and redate the tour in
>>> March and will be in touch with you as soon as we have a firm date
>>> for this
>>> rescheduling. Should the new date not be convenient for you, then you
>>> will
>>> be entitled to transfer your funds to a different tour or to receive
>>> a full
>>> refund of monies paid to us.
>>>
>>> Your patience at this time will be appreciated whilst we make the
>>> necessary
>>> arrangements, we will be in touch with you again in the coming days to
>>> advise further.
>>>
>>> Once again our sincere apologies for any inconvenience.
>>>
>>>
>>> —————
>>>
>>> I wonder how much this will cost the FS operation (NRM?), WCR, RTC and
>>> Gravy Train (caterers), and wonder if NR covers some or all of the
>>> costs?
>>>
>>> I don't have any wasted travel or hotel costs, but I'm sure many of the
>>> other would-be passengers will have.
>>>
>>
>> I suspect some will already be in their hotel without access to their
>> email and perhaps unaware.  I hope there are not too many
>> disappointments at the departure points tomorrow.
>
> The sort of people who can afford these trips won't have access to email
> from their hotels? Seriously?
>
Yes.

<martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
> On 19/02/2022 08:29, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> On 18/02/2022 22:28, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>> On 18/02/2022 22:06, Recliner wrote:
>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Graham Harrison <edward.harrisom.one@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 21:16:53 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying
>>>>>>> Scotsman are
>>>>>>> shown in RTT?  I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I
>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised
>>>>>>> timings. The
>>>>>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022 " rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail and the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> British
>>>>>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I just received a message to say it's been cancelled.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ah, yes, you're right, thanks for the warning. I've not yet received an
>>>>> email to that effect, but it's on the website:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022
>>>>
>>>> Found the email:
>>>>
>>>> Cotswold Venturer - Urgent Update - Tour Cancelled
>>>>
>>>> We have just been informed that despite the best efforts of the Network
>>>> Rail Charter Division in monitoring the situation throughout the day and
>>>> looking at alternative routing in case the original route was not
>>>> possible
>>>> for our train, the Regional Network Rail Route Director has this evening
>>>> made the decision to cancel our Cotswold Venturer train tomorrow.
>>>>
>>>> We are very sorry for the late notice of this cancellation, which is
>>>> outside of our control, and we apologise for any disappointment it may
>>>> cause, everyone involved had worked together in the hope that the train
>>>> would be able to take place tomorrow.
>>>>
>>>> We are now working with our operating company, West Coast Railways,
>>>> Network
>>>> Rail and the caretakers of Flying Scotsman to try and redate the tour in
>>>> March and will be in touch with you as soon as we have a firm date
>>>> for this
>>>> rescheduling. Should the new date not be convenient for you, then you
>>>> will
>>>> be entitled to transfer your funds to a different tour or to receive
>>>> a full
>>>> refund of monies paid to us.
>>>>
>>>> Your patience at this time will be appreciated whilst we make the
>>>> necessary
>>>> arrangements, we will be in touch with you again in the coming days to
>>>> advise further.
>>>>
>>>> Once again our sincere apologies for any inconvenience.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> —————
>>>>
>>>> I wonder how much this will cost the FS operation (NRM?), WCR, RTC and
>>>> Gravy Train (caterers), and wonder if NR covers some or all of the
>>>> costs?
>>>>
>>>> I don't have any wasted travel or hotel costs, but I'm sure many of the
>>>> other would-be passengers will have.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I suspect some will already be in their hotel without access to their
>>> email and perhaps unaware.  I hope there are not too many
>>> disappointments at the departure points tomorrow.
>>
>> The sort of people who can afford these trips won't have access to email
>> from their hotels? Seriously?
>>
> Yes.
>

I went on a day trip with Statesman recently. The demographic was very much
in the retired and long retired area. They all had smartphones. The idea
that the elderly can’t handle smartphones is fast becoming obsolete.