On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 17:48:02 -0000 (UTC), nib <news@ingram-bromley.co.uk> wrote:

>On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 17:34:28 +0000, nib wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 17:28:21 +0000, Recliner wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 17:18:08 -0000 (UTC), nib
>>> <news@ingram-bromley.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 17:15:26 +0000, Recliner wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 16:45:39 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <suqvrl$hg6$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:46:13 on Sat, 19
>>>>>>>> Feb 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 14:35:06 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
>>>>>>>>>> <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 12:20:49 +0000, Roland Perry
>>>>>>>>>>>> <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> In message <suqkmj$ds3$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:35:46 on Sat,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 19 Feb 2022, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The only email I have on my phone is my personal address
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> only known to relatives and close friends. I certainly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't trust it to commercial organisations.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Most smartphones need an email address from either Apple or
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google to set them up. But I'm loving all this
>>>>>>>>>>>>> anti-email-on-phone stuff, having been on the receiving end
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of accusations of being an anti-Mticketing luddite in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> past.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I suspect that you are Martin fall into the category of the
>>>>>>>>>>>> eccentric elderly who don't use their phones like most of the
>>>>>>>>>>>> population.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> There?s basically two ways forwards - you either adapt to the
>>>>>>>>>>> changing world or spend the rest of your few years left on the
>>>>>>>>>>> planet complaining about how the world doesn?t work how you?d
>>>>like
>>>>>>>>>>> it to. I?d wager that the latter just leads to unhappiness and
>>>>>>>>>>> changes nothing.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I think we can see the evidence of that here.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Eg, I detest Brexit and all that has ensued from it. However,
>>>>>>>>>>> I?ll get with the ETIAS scheme and make the best of it.
>>>>>>>>>>> Complaining, or calling out as one poster here likes to call
>>>>>>>>>>> it,
>>>>>>>>>>> won?t change anything. I aim to go to my grave in the best
>>>>>>>>>>> possible mood that I can muster.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yes, 100% agreed. There's no point banging on about what a
>>>>>>>>>> mistake Brexit was, and we just have to make the best of the
>>>>>>>>>> situation we are now in, including taking advantage of any
>>>>>>>>>> opportunities that it presents. They may be few and far
>>>>>>>>>> between, but we must make the most of any that arise.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I apologise for what appears to be a lack of apostrophes in my
>>>>>>>>> posts. They are present leaving here on my iPad and NewsTap, but
>>>>>>>>> seem to get lost in the wash, judging by the quotes of my posts.
>>>>>>>>> I?m guessing my apostrophes aren?t standard ascii ones, but I?ve
>>>>>>>>> no
>>>>idea
>>>>>>>>> how to fix this.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Your postings (and replies) look fine here, using a tried and
>>>>>>>> tested newsreader. See if this posting preserves them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks - yes they are preserved. However some peoples? quotes seem
>>>>>>> to drop the apostrophes. Odd.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I think the culprit in this case was Forte Agent, which I use on my
>>>>>>PC.
>>>>>>It ignores or converts into ? any but basic ASCII characters. I've
>>>>>>not been able to find any option which stops it doing that. I'd
>>>>>>welcome any suggestions for how to change its behaviour.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Incidentally, it doesn't drop basic apostrophes but drops the ones
>>>>>>Word creates or which you find in published text. NewsTap on my iPad
>>>>>>is much more forgiving and also lets me insert any text. So I think
>>>>>>Agent will only retain the first of these three apostrophes: '??
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, I was wrong, Agent has retained all three. Hopefully it'll post
>>>>> them, too.
>>>>
>>>>It didn't! Saw all of the 25 symbols in your test post, and all three
>>>>of the apostrophes, but your quoting above shows one apostrophe, one
>>>>0091 character and one 0092 (hex). That's Pan on Linux.
>>>
>>> All three apostrophes do show up in Agent on Windows: '??. No ?s
>among
>>> them. So, it appears than Pan on Linux is even worse than Agent on
>>> Windows!
>>
>> Don't see that! It renders them all correctly the first time they
>> appear,
>> but not after someone else has quoted them - surely it's that quoting
>> process elsewhere that has caused the corruption?
>>
>> nib
>
>Ah! The post of yours with the symbols showing all correct here was set
>as Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8. The one where you had the
>lines quoted was Content type ISO-8859-1 so it rendered it on that basis,
>showing the illegal character symbols. Something in what you are using is
>setting the type header according to whether it thinks it has non-ascii
>characters in it!

There's probably some setting in Agent that can fix it, but I have no clue which one.

On 19/02/2022 16:11, Recliner wrote:
> Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 19/02/2022 14:05, Recliner wrote:
>>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 13:14:29 +0000, Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 19/02/2022 11:27, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <suqh0e$447$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:32:48 on Sat, 19 Feb
>>>>>> 2022, Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> On 19/02/2022 08:27, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 18/02/2022 22:06, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Graham Harrison <edward.harrisom.one@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 21:16:53 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying
>>>>>>>>>>>> Scotsman are
>>>>>>>>>>>> shown in RTT?  I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and
>>>>>>>>>>>> I know
>>>>>>>>>>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised
>>>>>>>>>>>> timings. The
>>>>>>>>>>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022 " rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked
>>>>>>>>>>>> by Network Rail and the
>>>>>>>>>>>> British
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for th
>>>>>>>>>>>> e train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>>>>>>>>>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I just received a message to say it's been cancelled.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ah, yes, you're right, thanks for the warning. I've not yet received an
>>>>>>>>>> email to that effect, but it's on the website:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Found the email:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cotswold Venturer - Urgent Update - Tour Cancelled
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We have just been informed that despite the best efforts of the Network
>>>>>>>>> Rail Charter Division in monitoring the situation throughout the day and
>>>>>>>>> looking at alternative routing in case the original route was not
>>>>>>>>> possible
>>>>>>>>> for our train, the Regional Network Rail Route Director has this evening
>>>>>>>>> made the decision to cancel our Cotswold Venturer train tomorrow.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We are very sorry for the late notice of this cancellation, which is
>>>>>>>>> outside of our control, and we apologise for any disappointment it may
>>>>>>>>> cause, everyone involved had worked together in the hope that the train
>>>>>>>>> would be able to take place tomorrow.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We are now working with our operating company, West Coast Railways,
>>>>>>>>> Network
>>>>>>>>> Rail and the caretakers of Flying Scotsman to try and redate the tour in
>>>>>>>>> March and will be in touch with you as soon as we have a firm date
>>>>>>>>> for this
>>>>>>>>> rescheduling. Should the new date not be convenient for you, then
>>>>>>>>> you will
>>>>>>>>> be entitled to transfer your funds to a different tour or to receive
>>>>>>>>> a full
>>>>>>>>> refund of monies paid to us.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Your patience at this time will be appreciated whilst we make the
>>>>>>>>> necessary
>>>>>>>>> arrangements, we will be in touch with you again in the coming days to
>>>>>>>>> advise further.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Once again our sincere apologies for any inconvenience.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> —————
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I wonder how much this will cost the FS operation (NRM?), WCR, RTC and
>>>>>>>>> Gravy Train (caterers), and wonder if NR covers some or all of the costs?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't have any wasted travel or hotel costs, but I'm sure many of the
>>>>>>>>> other would-be passengers will have.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Act of God invoked presumably.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Two other railtours / charters have managed to run today (19 February),
>>>>>>> albeit both running rather late:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Reading to Lincoln:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U68002/2022-02-19/detailed
>>>>>>
>>>>>> +137 at Banbury!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and Telford Central to Appleby:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U91449/2022-02-19/detaile
>>>>>>> d#allox_id=0
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are either of them kettles?
>>>>>
>>>>> No, as you can see from RTT, they're diesel-hauled.
>>>>>
>>>> According to reports elsewhere, a Class 68 to Lincoln, and a pair of 47s
>>>> to Appleby and back.
>>>
>>> Yes, the 47s were identified. I wonder why the 68 was pathed as only a 75mph loco?
>>
>> Probably the line limit on some parts of the route.
>
> No, this is the maximum train speed used when calculating the timings, and
> is independent of the route. The calculated timings take account of both
> train and line speeds.
>
> Steam trains are treated as having a top speed of 60mph, though many of the
> main line locos are permitted to run at 75mph. Their assumed lower speed
> compensates for their lower acceleration and the limited time they manage
> to get over 60mph.
>

Now also read elsewhere that 66434 is on the back of the train, and a
Class 88 involved in at least part of the tour.

On 19/02/2022 17:51, Recliner wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 17:32:10 +0000, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 19/02/2022 17:25, Recliner wrote:
>>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 14:57:04 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <f2021hta4h84u9a0l75aj1981g3avu1aa0@4ax.com>, at 14:39:11 on
>>>> Sat, 19 Feb 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>
>>>>>> I detest Brexit and all that has ensued from it. However, I’ll get with
>>>>>> the ETIAS scheme and make the best of it. Complaining, or calling out as
>>>>>> one poster here likes to call it, won’t change anything. I aim to go to my
>>>>>> grave in the best possible mood that I can muster.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, 100% agreed. There's no point banging on about what a mistake
>>>>> Brexit was,
>>>>
>>>> There is a point, because the perpetrators are still in power, and are
>>>> screwing up the aftermath.
>>>
>>> So, criticise them for their current incompetence, not what they said in 2016.
>>
>> That's all the brexiteers can do, keep harking back to what they claim
>> other people said 6 years ago rather than face up to reality of what is
>> happening now.
>
> The hardline Brexiteers want to see deregulation, Article 16 to be triggered in NI, and taxes cut. BoJo gave them
> Brexit, but not the flavour of Brexit they wanted.

As they all want different things he can't deliver. No-one outside the
ERG actually wants or can afford any serious deregulation.[1] Triggering
Article 16 doesn't solve the NI problem, in fact it makes it worse.
Taxes can't be cut because of the short-fall of tax income because of
the drop in trade caused by brexit.

[1] Interesting quote from an Irish journo, Nick Tyrone, about Mogg's
new "job":

Anyhow, it’s worth gazing into a crystal ball and wondering what will
happen under Rees-Mogg’s reign as Brexit Opportunities Minister. I
reckon he’ll do what everyone who has tried to solve this conundrum has
done before. He’ll ask businesses and get next to nothing back. They
don’t really want to change much. Then he’ll figure he needs to speak to
small businesses, only to find that’s really logistically difficult and
besides, they don’t actually want to change much either, convinced that
whatever the government does will almost certainly make things worse.
Then the stuff he’ll find using Brexity think tank types will all be
about the slashing of workers rights, getting rid of construction
safeguards, that type of thing, which will just be rejected by whomever
is the prime minister out of hand, or will meet with such opposition
from campaign groups and the public that it will all be dropped. In the
end, Rees-Mogg will come up as empty handed as everyone else who has
attempted the same exercise.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

In message <sur6rk$54k$2@dont-email.me>, at 16:45:40 on Sat, 19 Feb
2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

>>> I apologise for what appears to be a lack of apostrophes in my posts. They
>>> are present leaving here on my iPad and NewsTap, but seem to get lost in
>>> the wash, judging by the quotes of my posts. I’m guessing my apostrophes
>>> aren’t standard ascii ones, but I’ve no idea how to fix this.
>>
>> Your postings (and replies) look fine here, using a tried and tested
>> newsreader. See if this posting preserves them.
>
>Does your tried and tested newsreader quote and preserve these 25
>space-separated characters:
>™ ‰ ? ¶ § ± ? ? ? … æ ° ± ? ? ® ? ? “ ” — ˆ Ø ÷ …
>
>And could you type them in? I just typed them straight into NewsTap from
>my normal keyboard (Padkeys).

What does this look like?

™ ‰ ? ¶ § ± ? ? ? … æ ° ± ? ? ® ? ? “ ” — ˆ Ø ÷ …

Should be tm, per-mille, box, pilcrow etc.
--
Roland Perry

In message <lgxsOeDFrUEiFAF5@perry.uk>, at 19:53:41 on Sat, 19 Feb 2022,
Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> remarked:
>In message <sur6rk$54k$2@dont-email.me>, at 16:45:40 on Sat, 19 Feb
>2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>
>>>> I apologise for what appears to be a lack of apostrophes in my posts. They
>>>> are present leaving here on my iPad and NewsTap, but seem to get lost in
>>>> the wash, judging by the quotes of my posts. I’m guessing my apostrophes
>>>> aren’t standard ascii ones, but I’ve no idea how to fix this.
>>>
>>> Your postings (and replies) look fine here, using a tried and tested
>>> newsreader. See if this posting preserves them.
>>
>>Does your tried and tested newsreader quote and preserve these 25
>>space-separated characters:

>>™ ‰ ? ¶ § ± ? ? ? … æ ° ± ? ? ® ? ? “ ” — ˆ Ø ÷ …
>>
>>And could you type them in? I just typed them straight into NewsTap from
>>my normal keyboard (Padkeys).
>
>What does this look like?
>
>™ ‰ ? ¶ § ± ? ? ? … æ ° ± ? ? ® ? ? “ ” — ˆ Ø ÷ …
>
>Should be tm, per-mille, box, pilcrow etc.

Hmm, I see the box (and a few others) have suffered. But I'm not alone
in that.
--
Roland Perry

On 19/02/2022 19:53, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <sur6rk$54k$2@dont-email.me>, at 16:45:40 on Sat, 19 Feb
> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>
>>>> I apologise for what appears to be a lack of apostrophes in my
>>>> posts. They
>>>> are present leaving here on my iPad and NewsTap, but seem to get
>>>> lost in
>>>> the wash, judging by the quotes of my posts. I’m guessing my
>>>> apostrophes
>>>> aren’t standard ascii ones, but I’ve no idea how to fix this.
>>>
>>> Your postings (and replies) look fine here, using a tried and tested
>>> newsreader. See if this posting preserves them.
>>
>> Does your tried and tested newsreader quote and preserve these 25
>> space-separated characters:
>> ™ ‰ ? ¶ § ± ? ? ? … æ ° ± ? ? ® ? ? “ ” — ˆ Ø ÷ …
>>
>> And could you type them in?  I just typed them straight into NewsTap from
>> my normal keyboard (Padkeys).
>
> What does this look like?
>
> ™ ‰ ? ¶ § ± ? ? ? … æ ° ± ? ? ® ? ? “ ” — ˆ Ø ÷ …
>
> Should be tm, per-mille, box, pilcrow etc.

Missing some here as you see.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <suqvrl$hg6$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:46:13 on Sat, 19 Feb
>> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 14:35:06 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
>>>> <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 12:20:49 +0000, Roland Perry
>>>>>> <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In message <suqkmj$ds3$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:35:46 on Sat, 19 Feb
>>>>>>> 2022, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The only email I have on my phone is my personal address only known to
>>>>>>>> relatives and close friends. I certainly wouldn't trust it to
>>>>>>>> commercial organisations.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Most smartphones need an email address from either Apple or Google to
>>>>>>> set them up. But I'm loving all this anti-email-on-phone stuff, having
>>>>>>> been on the receiving end of accusations of being an anti-Mticketing
>>>>>>> luddite in the past.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I suspect that you are Martin fall into the category of the eccentric
>>>>>> elderly who don't use their phones like most of
>>>>>> the population.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There’s basically two ways forwards - you either adapt to the changing
>>>>> world or spend the rest of your few years left on the planet complaining
>>>>> about how the world doesn’t work how you’d like it to. I’d wager that the
>>>>> latter just leads to unhappiness and changes nothing.
>>>>
>>>> I think we can see the evidence of that here.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Eg, I detest Brexit and all that has ensued from it. However, I’ll get with
>>>>> the ETIAS scheme and make the best of it. Complaining, or calling out as
>>>>> one poster here likes to call it, won’t change anything. I aim to go to my
>>>>> grave in the best possible mood that I can muster.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, 100% agreed. There's no point banging on about what a mistake
>>>> Brexit was, and we just have to make the best of the situation we
>>>> are now in, including taking advantage of any opportunities that it
>>>> presents. They may be few and far between, but we must make the most
>>>> of any that arise.
>>>
>>> I apologise for what appears to be a lack of apostrophes in my posts. They
>>> are present leaving here on my iPad and NewsTap, but seem to get lost in
>>> the wash, judging by the quotes of my posts. I’m guessing my apostrophes
>>> aren’t standard ascii ones, but I’ve no idea how to fix this.
>>
>> Your postings (and replies) look fine here, using a tried and tested
>> newsreader. See if this posting preserves them.
>
> Does your tried and tested newsreader quote and preserve these 25
> space-separated characters:
> ™ ‰ ∞ ¶ § ± ≤ ≥ ∏ … æ ° ± ≠ ∑ ® √ ∫ “ ” — ˆ Ø ÷ …
>
> And could you type them in? I just typed them straight into NewsTap from
> my normal keyboard (Padkeys).
>
>

Here's a shorter test set of 20 characters:

∞ ≤ ≥ ∏ ≠ ∑ √ ∫ € ¢ ¥ † ≠ « » ` ◊ ß Ω ¿

And this is what they should look like:
<https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/51891880264>

On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 19:33:34 +0000, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>On 19/02/2022 17:51, Recliner wrote:
>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 17:32:10 +0000, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 19/02/2022 17:25, Recliner wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 14:57:04 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message <f2021hta4h84u9a0l75aj1981g3avu1aa0@4ax.com>, at 14:39:11 on
>>>>> Sat, 19 Feb 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I detest Brexit and all that has ensued from it. However, I’ll get with
>>>>>>> the ETIAS scheme and make the best of it. Complaining, or calling out as
>>>>>>> one poster here likes to call it, won’t change anything. I aim to go to my
>>>>>>> grave in the best possible mood that I can muster.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, 100% agreed. There's no point banging on about what a mistake
>>>>>> Brexit was,
>>>>>
>>>>> There is a point, because the perpetrators are still in power, and are
>>>>> screwing up the aftermath.
>>>>
>>>> So, criticise them for their current incompetence, not what they said in 2016.
>>>
>>> That's all the brexiteers can do, keep harking back to what they claim
>>> other people said 6 years ago rather than face up to reality of what is
>>> happening now.
>>
>> The hardline Brexiteers want to see deregulation, Article 16 to be triggered in NI, and taxes cut. BoJo gave them
>> Brexit, but not the flavour of Brexit they wanted.
>
>As they all want different things he can't deliver. No-one outside the
>ERG actually wants or can afford any serious deregulation.[1] Triggering
>Article 16 doesn't solve the NI problem, in fact it makes it worse.
>Taxes can't be cut because of the short-fall of tax income because of
>the drop in trade caused by brexit.
>
>[1] Interesting quote from an Irish journo, Nick Tyrone, about Mogg's
>new "job":
>
>Anyhow, it’s worth gazing into a crystal ball and wondering what will
>happen under Rees-Mogg’s reign as Brexit Opportunities Minister. I
>reckon he’ll do what everyone who has tried to solve this conundrum has
>done before. He’ll ask businesses and get next to nothing back. They
>don’t really want to change much. Then he’ll figure he needs to speak to
>small businesses, only to find that’s really logistically difficult and
>besides, they don’t actually want to change much either, convinced that
>whatever the government does will almost certainly make things worse.
>Then the stuff he’ll find using Brexity think tank types will all be
>about the slashing of workers rights, getting rid of construction
>safeguards, that type of thing, which will just be rejected by whomever
>is the prime minister out of hand, or will meet with such opposition
>from campaign groups and the public that it will all be dropped. In the
>end, Rees-Mogg will come up as empty handed as everyone else who has
>attempted the same exercise.

Yes, that seems like an excellent summary.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <sur6rk$54k$2@dont-email.me>, at 16:45:40 on Sat, 19 Feb
> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>
>>>> I apologise for what appears to be a lack of apostrophes in my posts. They
>>>> are present leaving here on my iPad and NewsTap, but seem to get lost in
>>>> the wash, judging by the quotes of my posts. I’m guessing my apostrophes
>>>> aren’t standard ascii ones, but I’ve no idea how to fix this.
>>>
>>> Your postings (and replies) look fine here, using a tried and tested
>>> newsreader. See if this posting preserves them.
>>
>> Does your tried and tested newsreader quote and preserve these 25
>> space-separated characters:
>> ™ ‰ ? ¶ § ± ? ? ? … æ ° ± ? ? ® ? ? “ ” — ˆ Ø ÷ …
>>
>> And could you type them in? I just typed them straight into NewsTap from
>> my normal keyboard (Padkeys).
>
> What does this look like?
>
> ™ ‰ ? ¶ § ± ? ? ? … æ ° ± ? ? ® ? ? “ ” — ˆ Ø ÷ …
>
> Should be tm, per-mille, box, pilcrow etc.

Eight ?s where there should have been characters.

On 19/02/2022 21:47, Recliner wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <suqvrl$hg6$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:46:13 on Sat, 19 Feb
>>> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 14:35:06 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
>>>>> <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 12:20:49 +0000, Roland Perry
>>>>>>> <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In message <suqkmj$ds3$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:35:46 on Sat, 19 Feb
>>>>>>>> 2022, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The only email I have on my phone is my personal address only known to
>>>>>>>>> relatives and close friends. I certainly wouldn't trust it to
>>>>>>>>> commercial organisations.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Most smartphones need an email address from either Apple or Google to
>>>>>>>> set them up. But I'm loving all this anti-email-on-phone stuff, having
>>>>>>>> been on the receiving end of accusations of being an anti-Mticketing
>>>>>>>> luddite in the past.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I suspect that you are Martin fall into the category of the eccentric
>>>>>>> elderly who don't use their phones like most of
>>>>>>> the population.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There’s basically two ways forwards - you either adapt to the changing
>>>>>> world or spend the rest of your few years left on the planet complaining
>>>>>> about how the world doesn’t work how you’d like it to. I’d wager that the
>>>>>> latter just leads to unhappiness and changes nothing.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think we can see the evidence of that here.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Eg, I detest Brexit and all that has ensued from it. However, I’ll get with
>>>>>> the ETIAS scheme and make the best of it. Complaining, or calling out as
>>>>>> one poster here likes to call it, won’t change anything. I aim to go to my
>>>>>> grave in the best possible mood that I can muster.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, 100% agreed. There's no point banging on about what a mistake
>>>>> Brexit was, and we just have to make the best of the situation we
>>>>> are now in, including taking advantage of any opportunities that it
>>>>> presents. They may be few and far between, but we must make the most
>>>>> of any that arise.
>>>>
>>>> I apologise for what appears to be a lack of apostrophes in my posts. They
>>>> are present leaving here on my iPad and NewsTap, but seem to get lost in
>>>> the wash, judging by the quotes of my posts. I’m guessing my apostrophes
>>>> aren’t standard ascii ones, but I’ve no idea how to fix this.
>>>
>>> Your postings (and replies) look fine here, using a tried and tested
>>> newsreader. See if this posting preserves them.
>>
>> Does your tried and tested newsreader quote and preserve these 25
>> space-separated characters:
>> ™ ‰ ∞ ¶ § ± ≤ ≥ ∏ … æ ° ± ≠ ∑ ® √ ∫ “ ” — ˆ Ø ÷ …
>>
>> And could you type them in? I just typed them straight into NewsTap from
>> my normal keyboard (Padkeys).
>>
>>
>
> Here's a shorter test set of 20 characters:
>
> ∞ ≤ ≥ ∏ ≠ ∑ √ ∫ € ¢ ¥ † ≠ « » ` ◊ ß Ω ¿
>
> And this is what they should look like:
> <https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/51891880264>

∞ ≤ ≥ ∏ ≠ ∑ √ ∫ € ¢ ¥ † ≠ « » ` ◊ ß Ω ¿

In Tbird

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 21:47:38 -0000 (UTC), Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:

>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <suqvrl$hg6$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:46:13 on Sat, 19 Feb
>>> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 14:35:06 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
>>>>> <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>

>>>>>>
>>>>>> Eg, I detest Brexit and all that has ensued from it. However, I’ll get with
>>>>>> the ETIAS scheme and make the best of it. Complaining, or calling out as
>>>>>> one poster here likes to call it, won’t change anything. I aim to go to my
>>>>>> grave in the best possible mood that I can muster.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, 100% agreed. There's no point banging on about what a mistake
>>>>> Brexit was, and we just have to make the best of the situation we
>>>>> are now in, including taking advantage of any opportunities that it
>>>>> presents. They may be few and far between, but we must make the most
>>>>> of any that arise.
>>>>
>>>> I apologise for what appears to be a lack of apostrophes in my posts. They
>>>> are present leaving here on my iPad and NewsTap, but seem to get lost in
>>>> the wash, judging by the quotes of my posts. I’m guessing my apostrophes
>>>> aren’t standard ascii ones, but I’ve no idea how to fix this.
>>>
>>> Your postings (and replies) look fine here, using a tried and tested
>>> newsreader. See if this posting preserves them.
>>
>> Does your tried and tested newsreader quote and preserve these 25
>> space-separated characters:
>> ™ ‰ ? ¶ § ± ? ? ? … æ ° ± ? ? ® ? ? “ ” — ˆ Ø ÷ …
>>
>> And could you type them in? I just typed them straight into NewsTap from
>> my normal keyboard (Padkeys).
>>
>>
>
>Here's a shorter test set of 20 characters:
>
>? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? € ¢ ¥ † ? « » ` ? ß ? ¿
>
>And this is what they should look like:
><https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/51891880264>

Which, as you can see, weren't received properly in Agent, with 55% of them failing to display properly. So, even
without any quoting, many Unicode characters you can enter, display, post and receive on an iPad can't be viewed in my
Windows newsreader (but do show up correctly in Word, PDFs, email, etc, on Windows, so it's not a Windows problem as
such).

I can't even post the string correctly in Agent; this is what it shows when I try and paste the string in:
8 = = ? ? ? v ? € ¢ ¥ † ? « » ` ? ß O ¿

I have now set Agent to use Unicode UTF-8, so at least it might handle things like apostrophes and quotes correctly ('''
""").

On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 22:03:52 +0000, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>On 19/02/2022 21:47, Recliner wrote:
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <suqvrl$hg6$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:46:13 on Sat, 19 Feb
>>>> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 14:35:06 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
>>>>>> <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 12:20:49 +0000, Roland Perry
>>>>>>>> <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In message <suqkmj$ds3$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:35:46 on Sat, 19 Feb
>>>>>>>>> 2022, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The only email I have on my phone is my personal address only known to
>>>>>>>>>> relatives and close friends. I certainly wouldn't trust it to
>>>>>>>>>> commercial organisations.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Most smartphones need an email address from either Apple or Google to
>>>>>>>>> set them up. But I'm loving all this anti-email-on-phone stuff, having
>>>>>>>>> been on the receiving end of accusations of being an anti-Mticketing
>>>>>>>>> luddite in the past.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I suspect that you are Martin fall into the category of the eccentric
>>>>>>>> elderly who don't use their phones like most of
>>>>>>>> the population.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There’s basically two ways forwards - you either adapt to the changing
>>>>>>> world or spend the rest of your few years left on the planet complaining
>>>>>>> about how the world doesn’t work how you’d like it to. I’d wager that the
>>>>>>> latter just leads to unhappiness and changes nothing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think we can see the evidence of that here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Eg, I detest Brexit and all that has ensued from it. However, I’ll get with
>>>>>>> the ETIAS scheme and make the best of it. Complaining, or calling out as
>>>>>>> one poster here likes to call it, won’t change anything. I aim to go to my
>>>>>>> grave in the best possible mood that I can muster.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, 100% agreed. There's no point banging on about what a mistake
>>>>>> Brexit was, and we just have to make the best of the situation we
>>>>>> are now in, including taking advantage of any opportunities that it
>>>>>> presents. They may be few and far between, but we must make the most
>>>>>> of any that arise.
>>>>>
>>>>> I apologise for what appears to be a lack of apostrophes in my posts. They
>>>>> are present leaving here on my iPad and NewsTap, but seem to get lost in
>>>>> the wash, judging by the quotes of my posts. I’m guessing my apostrophes
>>>>> aren’t standard ascii ones, but I’ve no idea how to fix this.
>>>>
>>>> Your postings (and replies) look fine here, using a tried and tested
>>>> newsreader. See if this posting preserves them.
>>>
>>> Does your tried and tested newsreader quote and preserve these 25
>>> space-separated characters:
>>> ™ ‰ ? ¶ § ± ? ? ? … æ ° ± ? ? ® ? ? “ ” — ˆ Ø ÷ …
>>>
>>> And could you type them in? I just typed them straight into NewsTap from
>>> my normal keyboard (Padkeys).
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Here's a shorter test set of 20 characters:
>>
>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? € ¢ ¥ † ? « » ` ? ß ? ¿
>>
>> And this is what they should look like:
>> <https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/51891880264>
>
>? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? € ¢ ¥ † ? « » ` ? ß ? ¿
>
>In Tbird

Yes, Agent is the same.

On 19/02/2022 22:10, Recliner wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 22:03:52 +0000, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 19/02/2022 21:47, Recliner wrote:
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <suqvrl$hg6$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:46:13 on Sat, 19 Feb
>>>>> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 14:35:06 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
>>>>>>> <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 12:20:49 +0000, Roland Perry
>>>>>>>>> <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In message <suqkmj$ds3$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:35:46 on Sat, 19 Feb
>>>>>>>>>> 2022, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The only email I have on my phone is my personal address only known to
>>>>>>>>>>> relatives and close friends. I certainly wouldn't trust it to
>>>>>>>>>>> commercial organisations.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Most smartphones need an email address from either Apple or Google to
>>>>>>>>>> set them up. But I'm loving all this anti-email-on-phone stuff, having
>>>>>>>>>> been on the receiving end of accusations of being an anti-Mticketing
>>>>>>>>>> luddite in the past.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I suspect that you are Martin fall into the category of the eccentric
>>>>>>>>> elderly who don't use their phones like most of
>>>>>>>>> the population.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There’s basically two ways forwards - you either adapt to the changing
>>>>>>>> world or spend the rest of your few years left on the planet complaining
>>>>>>>> about how the world doesn’t work how you’d like it to. I’d wager that the
>>>>>>>> latter just leads to unhappiness and changes nothing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think we can see the evidence of that here.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Eg, I detest Brexit and all that has ensued from it. However, I’ll get with
>>>>>>>> the ETIAS scheme and make the best of it. Complaining, or calling out as
>>>>>>>> one poster here likes to call it, won’t change anything. I aim to go to my
>>>>>>>> grave in the best possible mood that I can muster.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, 100% agreed. There's no point banging on about what a mistake
>>>>>>> Brexit was, and we just have to make the best of the situation we
>>>>>>> are now in, including taking advantage of any opportunities that it
>>>>>>> presents. They may be few and far between, but we must make the most
>>>>>>> of any that arise.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I apologise for what appears to be a lack of apostrophes in my posts. They
>>>>>> are present leaving here on my iPad and NewsTap, but seem to get lost in
>>>>>> the wash, judging by the quotes of my posts. I’m guessing my apostrophes
>>>>>> aren’t standard ascii ones, but I’ve no idea how to fix this.
>>>>>
>>>>> Your postings (and replies) look fine here, using a tried and tested
>>>>> newsreader. See if this posting preserves them.
>>>>
>>>> Does your tried and tested newsreader quote and preserve these 25
>>>> space-separated characters:
>>>> ™ ‰ ? ¶ § ± ? ? ? … æ ° ± ? ? ® ? ? “ ” — ˆ Ø ÷ …
>>>>
>>>> And could you type them in? I just typed them straight into NewsTap from
>>>> my normal keyboard (Padkeys).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Here's a shorter test set of 20 characters:
>>>
>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? € ¢ ¥ † ? « » ` ? ß ? ¿
>>>
>>> And this is what they should look like:
>>> <https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/51891880264>
>>
>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? € ¢ ¥ † ? « » ` ? ß ? ¿
>>
>> In Tbird
>
> Yes, Agent is the same.

Nope they came out fine for me.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 19/02/2022 22:10, Recliner wrote:
>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 22:03:52 +0000, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 19/02/2022 21:47, Recliner wrote:
>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <suqvrl$hg6$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:46:13 on Sat, 19 Feb
>>>>>> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 14:35:06 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
>>>>>>>> <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 12:20:49 +0000, Roland Perry
>>>>>>>>>> <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In message <suqkmj$ds3$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:35:46 on Sat, 19 Feb
>>>>>>>>>>> 2022, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The only email I have on my phone is my personal address only known to
>>>>>>>>>>>> relatives and close friends. I certainly wouldn't trust it to
>>>>>>>>>>>> commercial organisations.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Most smartphones need an email address from either Apple or Google to
>>>>>>>>>>> set them up. But I'm loving all this anti-email-on-phone stuff, having
>>>>>>>>>>> been on the receiving end of accusations of being an anti-Mticketing
>>>>>>>>>>> luddite in the past.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I suspect that you are Martin fall into the category of the eccentric
>>>>>>>>>> elderly who don't use their phones like most of
>>>>>>>>>> the population.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There’s basically two ways forwards - you either adapt to the changing
>>>>>>>>> world or spend the rest of your few years left on the planet complaining
>>>>>>>>> about how the world doesn’t work how you’d like it to. I’d wager that the
>>>>>>>>> latter just leads to unhappiness and changes nothing.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think we can see the evidence of that here.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Eg, I detest Brexit and all that has ensued from it. However, I’ll get with
>>>>>>>>> the ETIAS scheme and make the best of it. Complaining, or calling out as
>>>>>>>>> one poster here likes to call it, won’t change anything. I aim to go to my
>>>>>>>>> grave in the best possible mood that I can muster.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes, 100% agreed. There's no point banging on about what a mistake
>>>>>>>> Brexit was, and we just have to make the best of the situation we
>>>>>>>> are now in, including taking advantage of any opportunities that it
>>>>>>>> presents. They may be few and far between, but we must make the most
>>>>>>>> of any that arise.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I apologise for what appears to be a lack of apostrophes in my posts. They
>>>>>>> are present leaving here on my iPad and NewsTap, but seem to get lost in
>>>>>>> the wash, judging by the quotes of my posts. I’m guessing my apostrophes
>>>>>>> aren’t standard ascii ones, but I’ve no idea how to fix this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your postings (and replies) look fine here, using a tried and tested
>>>>>> newsreader. See if this posting preserves them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Does your tried and tested newsreader quote and preserve these 25
>>>>> space-separated characters:
>>>>> ™ ‰ ? ¶ § ± ? ? ? … æ ° ± ? ? ® ? ? “ ” — ˆ Ø ÷ …
>>>>>
>>>>> And could you type them in? I just typed them straight into NewsTap from
>>>>> my normal keyboard (Padkeys).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Here's a shorter test set of 20 characters:
>>>>
>>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? € ¢ ¥ † ? « » ` ? ß ? ¿
>>>>
>>>> And this is what they should look like:
>>>> <https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/51891880264>
>>>
>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? € ¢ ¥ † ? « » ` ? ß ? ¿
>>>
>>> In Tbird
>>
>> Yes, Agent is the same.
>
> Nope they came out fine for me.
>

Which newsreader? It should be OK in NewsTap.

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 19/02/2022 21:47, Recliner wrote:
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <suqvrl$hg6$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:46:13 on Sat, 19 Feb
>>>> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 14:35:06 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
>>>>>> <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 12:20:49 +0000, Roland Perry
>>>>>>>> <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In message <suqkmj$ds3$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:35:46 on Sat, 19 Feb
>>>>>>>>> 2022, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The only email I have on my phone is my personal address only known to
>>>>>>>>>> relatives and close friends. I certainly wouldn't trust it to
>>>>>>>>>> commercial organisations.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Most smartphones need an email address from either Apple or Google to
>>>>>>>>> set them up. But I'm loving all this anti-email-on-phone stuff, having
>>>>>>>>> been on the receiving end of accusations of being an anti-Mticketing
>>>>>>>>> luddite in the past.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I suspect that you are Martin fall into the category of the eccentric
>>>>>>>> elderly who don't use their phones like most of
>>>>>>>> the population.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There’s basically two ways forwards - you either adapt to the changing
>>>>>>> world or spend the rest of your few years left on the planet complaining
>>>>>>> about how the world doesn’t work how you’d like it to. I’d wager that the
>>>>>>> latter just leads to unhappiness and changes nothing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think we can see the evidence of that here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Eg, I detest Brexit and all that has ensued from it. However, I’ll get with
>>>>>>> the ETIAS scheme and make the best of it. Complaining, or calling out as
>>>>>>> one poster here likes to call it, won’t change anything. I aim to go to my
>>>>>>> grave in the best possible mood that I can muster.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, 100% agreed. There's no point banging on about what a mistake
>>>>>> Brexit was, and we just have to make the best of the situation we
>>>>>> are now in, including taking advantage of any opportunities that it
>>>>>> presents. They may be few and far between, but we must make the most
>>>>>> of any that arise.
>>>>>
>>>>> I apologise for what appears to be a lack of apostrophes in my posts. They
>>>>> are present leaving here on my iPad and NewsTap, but seem to get lost in
>>>>> the wash, judging by the quotes of my posts. I’m guessing my apostrophes
>>>>> aren’t standard ascii ones, but I’ve no idea how to fix this.
>>>>
>>>> Your postings (and replies) look fine here, using a tried and tested
>>>> newsreader. See if this posting preserves them.
>>>
>>> Does your tried and tested newsreader quote and preserve these 25
>>> space-separated characters:
>>> ™ ‰ ∞ ¶ § ± ≤ ≥ ∏ … æ ° ± ≠ ∑ ® √ ∫ “ ” — ˆ Ø ÷ …
>>>
>>> And could you type them in? I just typed them straight into NewsTap from
>>> my normal keyboard (Padkeys).
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Here's a shorter test set of 20 characters:
>>
>> ∞ ≤ ≥ ∏ ≠ ∑ √ ∫ € ¢ ¥ † ≠ « » ` ◊ ß Ω ¿
>>
>> And this is what they should look like:
>> <https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/51891880264>
>
> ∞ ≤ ≥ ∏ ≠ ∑ √ ∫ € ¢ ¥ † ≠ « » ` ◊ ß Ω ¿
>
> In Tbird
>
>

Ah, that's good, a big improvement on what I get in Agent.

On 19/02/2022 19:33, Graeme Wall wrote:
> On 19/02/2022 17:51, Recliner wrote:
>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 17:32:10 +0000, Graeme Wall
>> <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 19/02/2022 17:25, Recliner wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 14:57:04 +0000, Roland Perry
>>>> <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message <f2021hta4h84u9a0l75aj1981g3avu1aa0@4ax.com>, at
>>>>> 14:39:11 on
>>>>> Sat, 19 Feb 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I detest Brexit and all that has ensued from it. However, I’ll
>>>>>>> get with
>>>>>>> the ETIAS scheme and make the best of it. Complaining, or calling
>>>>>>> out as
>>>>>>> one poster here likes to call it, won’t change anything. I aim to
>>>>>>> go to my
>>>>>>> grave in the best possible mood that I can muster.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, 100% agreed. There's no point banging on about what a mistake
>>>>>> Brexit was,
>>>>>
>>>>> There is a point, because the perpetrators are still in power, and are
>>>>> screwing up the aftermath.
>>>>
>>>> So, criticise them for their current incompetence, not what they
>>>> said in 2016.
>>>
>>> That's all the brexiteers can do, keep harking back to what they claim
>>> other people said 6 years ago rather than face up to reality of what is
>>> happening now.
>>
>> The hardline Brexiteers want to see deregulation, Article 16 to be The
>> triggered in NI, and taxes cut. BoJo gave them
>> Brexit, but not the flavour of Brexit they wanted.
>
> As they all want different things he can't deliver. No-one outside the
> ERG actually wants or can afford any serious deregulation.[1] Triggering
> Article 16 doesn't solve the NI problem, in fact it makes it worse.
> Taxes can't be cut because of the short-fall of tax income because of
> the drop in trade caused by brexit.
>
> [1] Interesting quote from an Irish journo, Nick Tyrone, about Mogg's
> new "job":
>
> Anyhow, it’s worth gazing into a crystal ball and wondering what will
> happen under Rees-Mogg’s reign as Brexit Opportunities Minister. I
> reckon he’ll do what everyone who has tried to solve this conundrum has
> done before. He’ll ask businesses and get next to nothing back. They
> don’t really want to change much. Then he’ll figure he needs to speak to
> small businesses, only to find that’s really logistically difficult and
> besides, they don’t actually want to change much either, convinced that
> whatever the government does will almost certainly make things worse.
> Then the stuff he’ll find using Brexity think tank types will all be
> about the slashing of workers rights, getting rid of construction
> safeguards, that type of thing, which will just be rejected by whomever
> is the prime minister out of hand, or will meet with such opposition
> from campaign groups and the public that it will all be dropped. In the
> end, Rees-Mogg will come up as empty handed as everyone else who has
> attempted the same exercise.
>
>

The amusing thing is that most of the construction safeguards (and other
health and safety) originate from HMG regulation in the first place.

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <suqk76$4af$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:27:34 on Sat, 19 Feb
>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>
>>>>> https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U68002/2022-02-19/detailed
>>>>
>>>> +137 at Banbury!
>>>>
>>>>> and Telford Central to Appleby:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U91449/2022-02-19/detaile
>>>>> d#allox_id=0
>>>>
>>>> Are either of them kettles?
>>>
>>> No, as you can see from RTT, they're diesel-hauled.
>>
>> Pathed-as (just like the tour from Paddington), but it doesn't give the
>> actual traction.
>
> The second one does. And if it's pathed as a 75mph diesel, then it's an
> actual diesel, not steam. Steam is pathed as a 60mph diesel, even the
> kettles with a 75mph allowed speed.
>

Interesting, thanks!

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 19/02/2022 12:27, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>> On 19/02/2022 11:54, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>> On 19/02/2022 11:35, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>>> On 19/02/2022 11:21, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 19/02/2022 08:29, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 18/02/2022 22:28, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 18/02/2022 22:06, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Graham Harrison <edward.harrisom.one@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 21:16:53 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>>>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Scotsman are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> shown in RTT?  I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet),
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised
>>>>>>>>>>>>> timings. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022 " rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> British
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I just received a message to say it's been cancelled.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ah, yes, you're right, thanks for the warning. I've not yet
>>>>>>>>>>> received an
>>>>>>>>>>> email to that effect, but it's on the website:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Found the email:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Cotswold Venturer - Urgent Update - Tour Cancelled
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We have just been informed that despite the best efforts of the
>>>>>>>>>> Network
>>>>>>>>>> Rail Charter Division in monitoring the situation throughout
>>>>>>>>>> the day and
>>>>>>>>>> looking at alternative routing in case the original route was not
>>>>>>>>>> possible
>>>>>>>>>> for our train, the Regional Network Rail Route Director has
>>>>>>>>>> this evening
>>>>>>>>>> made the decision to cancel our Cotswold Venturer train tomorrow.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We are very sorry for the late notice of this cancellation,
>>>>>>>>>> which is
>>>>>>>>>> outside of our control, and we apologise for any disappointment
>>>>>>>>>> it may
>>>>>>>>>> cause, everyone involved had worked together in the hope that
>>>>>>>>>> the train
>>>>>>>>>> would be able to take place tomorrow.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We are now working with our operating company, West Coast
>>>>>>>>>> Railways,
>>>>>>>>>> Network
>>>>>>>>>> Rail and the caretakers of Flying Scotsman to try and redate
>>>>>>>>>> the tour in
>>>>>>>>>> March and will be in touch with you as soon as we have a firm date
>>>>>>>>>> for this
>>>>>>>>>> rescheduling. Should the new date not be convenient for you,
>>>>>>>>>> then you
>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>> be entitled to transfer your funds to a different tour or to
>>>>>>>>>> receive
>>>>>>>>>> a full
>>>>>>>>>> refund of monies paid to us.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Your patience at this time will be appreciated whilst we make the
>>>>>>>>>> necessary
>>>>>>>>>> arrangements, we will be in touch with you again in the coming
>>>>>>>>>> days to
>>>>>>>>>> advise further.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Once again our sincere apologies for any inconvenience.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> —————
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I wonder how much this will cost the FS operation (NRM?), WCR,
>>>>>>>>>> RTC and
>>>>>>>>>> Gravy Train (caterers), and wonder if NR covers some or all of the
>>>>>>>>>> costs?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I don't have any wasted travel or hotel costs, but I'm sure
>>>>>>>>>> many of the
>>>>>>>>>> other would-be passengers will have.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I suspect some will already be in their hotel without access to
>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>> email and perhaps unaware.  I hope there are not too many
>>>>>>>>> disappointments at the departure points tomorrow.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The sort of people who can afford these trips won't have access
>>>>>>>> to email
>>>>>>>> from their hotels? Seriously?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I went on a day trip with Statesman recently. The demographic was
>>>>>> very much
>>>>>> in the retired and long retired area. They all had smartphones. The
>>>>>> idea
>>>>>> that the elderly can’t handle smartphones is fast becoming obsolete.
>>>>>
>>>>> I still come across older folks on tours with neither home email nor
>>>>> smartphones, and occasionally not even a basic mobile phone at all.
>>>>> Some
>>>>> use(d) email at work, but never felt the need for it at home. They're
>>>>> definitely a small, shrinking minority, but they do still exist. So
>>>>> it's
>>>>> quite possible that a few such people were booked on this trip.
>>>>>
>>>> I've got a couple of friends with smart phones but they only use them
>>>> to make or receive calls.  Don't leave them voice mail as they have
>>>> no idea what to do with it.
>>>>
>>>> The only email I have on my phone is my personal address only known
>>>> to relatives and close friends.  I certainly wouldn't trust it to
>>>> commercial organisations.
>>>
>>> What's wrong with having a sacrificial gmail address for companies to
>>> use? Not difficult to have a second or third address on your phone and
>>> abandon it if/when it gets abused.
>>>
>> Too much hassle.  It's a painful process setting up google email addresses.
>>
>> I like to provide each organisation I have a dealing with a unique email
>> address.
>
> And that's not a hassle to set up?
>

Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 14:35:06 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 12:20:49 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message <suqkmj$ds3$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:35:46 on Sat, 19 Feb
>>>>> 2022, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The only email I have on my phone is my personal address only known to
>>>>>> relatives and close friends. I certainly wouldn't trust it to
>>>>>> commercial organisations.
>>>>>
>>>>> Most smartphones need an email address from either Apple or Google to
>>>>> set them up. But I'm loving all this anti-email-on-phone stuff, having
>>>>> been on the receiving end of accusations of being an anti-Mticketing
>>>>> luddite in the past.
>>>>
>>>> I suspect that you are Martin fall into the category of the eccentric
>>>> elderly who don't use their phones like most of
>>>> the population.
>>>>
>>>
>>> There’s basically two ways forwards - you either adapt to the changing
>>> world or spend the rest of your few years left on the planet complaining
>>> about how the world doesn’t work how you’d like it to. I’d wager that the
>>> latter just leads to unhappiness and changes nothing.
>>
>> I think we can see the evidence of that here.
>>
>>>
>>> Eg, I detest Brexit and all that has ensued from it. However, I’ll get with
>>> the ETIAS scheme and make the best of it. Complaining, or calling out as
>>> one poster here likes to call it, won’t change anything. I aim to go to my
>>> grave in the best possible mood that I can muster.
>>
>> Yes, 100% agreed. There's no point banging on about what a mistake Brexit
>> was, and we just have to make the best of the
>> situation we are now in, including taking advantage of any opportunities
>> that it presents. They may be few and far
>> between, but we must make the most of any that arise.
>>
>
> I apologise for what appears to be a lack of apostrophes in my posts. They
> are present leaving here on my iPad and NewsTap, but seem to get lost in
> the wash, judging by the quotes of my posts. I’m guessing my apostrophes
> aren’t standard ascii ones, but I’ve no idea how to fix this.
>
>

Aha! I had this discussion a few years ago. It's something to do with
character sets.

My way around it, which is slightly laborious and annoying, is to
long-press the ‘ or “ button and select ' or ", that is, vertical rather
than slanted apostrophe or quote marks.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

<martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
> On 19/02/2022 14:05, Recliner wrote:
>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 13:14:29 +0000, Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 19/02/2022 11:27, Recliner wrote:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <suqh0e$447$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:32:48 on Sat, 19 Feb
>>>>> 2022, Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> On 19/02/2022 08:27, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>>>> On 18/02/2022 22:06, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Graham Harrison <edward.harrisom.one@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 21:16:53 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying
>>>>>>>>>>> Scotsman are
>>>>>>>>>>> shown in RTT?  I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and
>>>>>>>>>>> I know
>>>>>>>>>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised
>>>>>>>>>>> timings. The
>>>>>>>>>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022 " rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked
>>>>>>>>>>> by Network Rail and the
>>>>>>>>>>> British
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for th
>>>>>>>>>>> e train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>>>>>>>>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I just received a message to say it's been cancelled.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ah, yes, you're right, thanks for the warning. I've not yet received an
>>>>>>>>> email to that effect, but it's on the website:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Found the email:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cotswold Venturer - Urgent Update - Tour Cancelled
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We have just been informed that despite the best efforts of the Network
>>>>>>>> Rail Charter Division in monitoring the situation throughout the day and
>>>>>>>> looking at alternative routing in case the original route was not
>>>>>>>> possible
>>>>>>>> for our train, the Regional Network Rail Route Director has this evening
>>>>>>>> made the decision to cancel our Cotswold Venturer train tomorrow.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We are very sorry for the late notice of this cancellation, which is
>>>>>>>> outside of our control, and we apologise for any disappointment it may
>>>>>>>> cause, everyone involved had worked together in the hope that the train
>>>>>>>> would be able to take place tomorrow.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We are now working with our operating company, West Coast Railways,
>>>>>>>> Network
>>>>>>>> Rail and the caretakers of Flying Scotsman to try and redate the tour in
>>>>>>>> March and will be in touch with you as soon as we have a firm date
>>>>>>>> for this
>>>>>>>> rescheduling. Should the new date not be convenient for you, then
>>>>>>>> you will
>>>>>>>> be entitled to transfer your funds to a different tour or to receive
>>>>>>>> a full
>>>>>>>> refund of monies paid to us.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Your patience at this time will be appreciated whilst we make the
>>>>>>>> necessary
>>>>>>>> arrangements, we will be in touch with you again in the coming days to
>>>>>>>> advise further.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Once again our sincere apologies for any inconvenience.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> —————
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I wonder how much this will cost the FS operation (NRM?), WCR, RTC and
>>>>>>>> Gravy Train (caterers), and wonder if NR covers some or all of the costs?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't have any wasted travel or hotel costs, but I'm sure many of the
>>>>>>>> other would-be passengers will have.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Act of God invoked presumably.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Two other railtours / charters have managed to run today (19 February),
>>>>>> albeit both running rather late:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Reading to Lincoln:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U68002/2022-02-19/detailed
>>>>>
>>>>> +137 at Banbury!
>>>>>
>>>>>> and Telford Central to Appleby:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U91449/2022-02-19/detaile
>>>>>> d#allox_id=0
>>>>>
>>>>> Are either of them kettles?
>>>>
>>>> No, as you can see from RTT, they're diesel-hauled.
>>>>
>>> According to reports elsewhere, a Class 68 to Lincoln, and a pair of 47s
>>> to Appleby and back.
>>
>> Yes, the 47s were identified. I wonder why the 68 was pathed as only a
>> 75mph loco? It's the most powerful diesel loco
>> in service in the UK, and can easily pull a train like that at 100mph.
>
> What is says is that it is planned for 75mph. I don't know what the
> consist is but is there a 75mph limited coach included?
> I don't suppose the route beyond Banbury is cleared for much more than
> 75mph anyway.
>

Perhaps railtours are planned for 75mph by default? That won't prevent them
from actually running at the maximum speed of loco/stock, where
appropriate.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 19/02/2022 14:05, Recliner wrote:
>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 13:14:29 +0000, Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 19/02/2022 11:27, Recliner wrote:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <suqh0e$447$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:32:48 on Sat, 19 Feb
>>>>> 2022, Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> On 19/02/2022 08:27, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>>>> On 18/02/2022 22:06, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Graham Harrison <edward.harrisom.one@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 21:16:53 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying
>>>>>>>>>>> Scotsman are
>>>>>>>>>>> shown in RTT?  I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and
>>>>>>>>>>> I know
>>>>>>>>>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised
>>>>>>>>>>> timings. The
>>>>>>>>>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022 " rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked
>>>>>>>>>>> by Network Rail and the
>>>>>>>>>>> British
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for th
>>>>>>>>>>> e train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>>>>>>>>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I just received a message to say it's been cancelled.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ah, yes, you're right, thanks for the warning. I've not yet received an
>>>>>>>>> email to that effect, but it's on the website:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Found the email:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cotswold Venturer - Urgent Update - Tour Cancelled
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We have just been informed that despite the best efforts of the Network
>>>>>>>> Rail Charter Division in monitoring the situation throughout the day and
>>>>>>>> looking at alternative routing in case the original route was not
>>>>>>>> possible
>>>>>>>> for our train, the Regional Network Rail Route Director has this evening
>>>>>>>> made the decision to cancel our Cotswold Venturer train tomorrow.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We are very sorry for the late notice of this cancellation, which is
>>>>>>>> outside of our control, and we apologise for any disappointment it may
>>>>>>>> cause, everyone involved had worked together in the hope that the train
>>>>>>>> would be able to take place tomorrow.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We are now working with our operating company, West Coast Railways,
>>>>>>>> Network
>>>>>>>> Rail and the caretakers of Flying Scotsman to try and redate the tour in
>>>>>>>> March and will be in touch with you as soon as we have a firm date
>>>>>>>> for this
>>>>>>>> rescheduling. Should the new date not be convenient for you, then
>>>>>>>> you will
>>>>>>>> be entitled to transfer your funds to a different tour or to receive
>>>>>>>> a full
>>>>>>>> refund of monies paid to us.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Your patience at this time will be appreciated whilst we make the
>>>>>>>> necessary
>>>>>>>> arrangements, we will be in touch with you again in the coming days to
>>>>>>>> advise further.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Once again our sincere apologies for any inconvenience.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> —————
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I wonder how much this will cost the FS operation (NRM?), WCR, RTC and
>>>>>>>> Gravy Train (caterers), and wonder if NR covers some or all of the costs?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't have any wasted travel or hotel costs, but I'm sure many of the
>>>>>>>> other would-be passengers will have.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Act of God invoked presumably.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Two other railtours / charters have managed to run today (19 February),
>>>>>> albeit both running rather late:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Reading to Lincoln:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U68002/2022-02-19/detailed
>>>>>
>>>>> +137 at Banbury!
>>>>>
>>>>>> and Telford Central to Appleby:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U91449/2022-02-19/detaile
>>>>>> d#allox_id=0
>>>>>
>>>>> Are either of them kettles?
>>>>
>>>> No, as you can see from RTT, they're diesel-hauled.
>>>>
>>> According to reports elsewhere, a Class 68 to Lincoln, and a pair of 47s
>>> to Appleby and back.
>>
>> Yes, the 47s were identified. I wonder why the 68 was pathed as only a 75mph loco?
>
> Probably the line limit on some parts of the route.
>
>
>

The pathing speed will usually be the maximum of the loco or stock,
regardless of linespeed (eg, IETs are pathed at 125mph regardless of
linespeed).

As I mentioned in another reply, it may be that railtours are pathed at
75mph by default, but that won't prevent them running faster if the
loco/stock/line allows it.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Does your tried and tested newsreader quote and preserve these 25
> space-separated characters:

[snip]

> ¶
>

This always used to be a symbol used in the locomotive allocation books for
spotters! I think it meant dual braked, perhaps?

I don't think I've seen it used in any other context.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 16:45:39 -0000 (UTC), Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <suqvrl$hg6$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:46:13 on Sat, 19 Feb
>>>> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>
>>>>> I apologise for what appears to be a lack of apostrophes in my posts. They
>>>>> are present leaving here on my iPad and NewsTap, but seem to get lost in
>>>>> the wash, judging by the quotes of my posts. I’m guessing my apostrophes
>>>>> aren’t standard ascii ones, but I’ve no idea how to fix this.
>>>>
>>>> Your postings (and replies) look fine here, using a tried and tested
>>>> newsreader. See if this posting preserves them.
>>>
>>> Thanks - yes they are preserved. However some peoples’ quotes seem to drop
>>> the apostrophes. Odd.
>>
>> I think the culprit in this case was Forte Agent, which I use on my PC. It
>> ignores or converts into ? any but basic ASCII characters. I've not been
>> able to find any option which stops it doing that. I'd welcome any
>> suggestions for how to change its behaviour.
>>
>> Incidentally, it doesn't drop basic apostrophes but drops the ones Word
>> creates or which you find in published text. NewsTap on my iPad is much
>> more forgiving and also lets me insert any text. So I think Agent will
>> only retain the first of these three apostrophes: '‘’
>
> Well, I was wrong, Agent has retained all three. Hopefully it'll post them, too.
>

Only one visible when reading this post through NewsTap.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>> On 19/02/2022 14:05, Recliner wrote:
>>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 13:14:29 +0000, Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 19/02/2022 11:27, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <suqh0e$447$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:32:48 on Sat, 19 Feb
>>>>>> 2022, Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> On 19/02/2022 08:27, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 18/02/2022 22:06, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Graham Harrison <edward.harrisom.one@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 21:16:53 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying
>>>>>>>>>>>> Scotsman are
>>>>>>>>>>>> shown in RTT?  I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and
>>>>>>>>>>>> I know
>>>>>>>>>>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised
>>>>>>>>>>>> timings. The
>>>>>>>>>>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022 " rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked
>>>>>>>>>>>> by Network Rail and the
>>>>>>>>>>>> British
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for th
>>>>>>>>>>>> e train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>>>>>>>>>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I just received a message to say it's been cancelled.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ah, yes, you're right, thanks for the warning. I've not yet received an
>>>>>>>>>> email to that effect, but it's on the website:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Found the email:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cotswold Venturer - Urgent Update - Tour Cancelled
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We have just been informed that despite the best efforts of the Network
>>>>>>>>> Rail Charter Division in monitoring the situation throughout the day and
>>>>>>>>> looking at alternative routing in case the original route was not
>>>>>>>>> possible
>>>>>>>>> for our train, the Regional Network Rail Route Director has this evening
>>>>>>>>> made the decision to cancel our Cotswold Venturer train tomorrow.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We are very sorry for the late notice of this cancellation, which is
>>>>>>>>> outside of our control, and we apologise for any disappointment it may
>>>>>>>>> cause, everyone involved had worked together in the hope that the train
>>>>>>>>> would be able to take place tomorrow.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We are now working with our operating company, West Coast Railways,
>>>>>>>>> Network
>>>>>>>>> Rail and the caretakers of Flying Scotsman to try and redate the tour in
>>>>>>>>> March and will be in touch with you as soon as we have a firm date
>>>>>>>>> for this
>>>>>>>>> rescheduling. Should the new date not be convenient for you, then
>>>>>>>>> you will
>>>>>>>>> be entitled to transfer your funds to a different tour or to receive
>>>>>>>>> a full
>>>>>>>>> refund of monies paid to us.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Your patience at this time will be appreciated whilst we make the
>>>>>>>>> necessary
>>>>>>>>> arrangements, we will be in touch with you again in the coming days to
>>>>>>>>> advise further.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Once again our sincere apologies for any inconvenience.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> —————
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I wonder how much this will cost the FS operation (NRM?), WCR, RTC and
>>>>>>>>> Gravy Train (caterers), and wonder if NR covers some or all of the costs?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't have any wasted travel or hotel costs, but I'm sure many of the
>>>>>>>>> other would-be passengers will have.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Act of God invoked presumably.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Two other railtours / charters have managed to run today (19 February),
>>>>>>> albeit both running rather late:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Reading to Lincoln:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U68002/2022-02-19/detailed
>>>>>>
>>>>>> +137 at Banbury!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and Telford Central to Appleby:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U91449/2022-02-19/detaile
>>>>>>> d#allox_id=0
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are either of them kettles?
>>>>>
>>>>> No, as you can see from RTT, they're diesel-hauled.
>>>>>
>>>> According to reports elsewhere, a Class 68 to Lincoln, and a pair of 47s
>>>> to Appleby and back.
>>>
>>> Yes, the 47s were identified. I wonder why the 68 was pathed as only a
>>> 75mph loco? It's the most powerful diesel loco
>>> in service in the UK, and can easily pull a train like that at 100mph.
>>
>> What is says is that it is planned for 75mph. I don't know what the
>> consist is but is there a 75mph limited coach included?
>> I don't suppose the route beyond Banbury is cleared for much more than
>> 75mph anyway.
>>
>
> Perhaps railtours are planned for 75mph by default? That won't prevent them
> from actually running at the maximum speed of loco/stock, where
> appropriate.

I think, only diesel hauled, and only with locos capable of at least that
speed. Steam tours, and those hauled by class 59/60 locos, are pathed for
60mph. Electric hauled are pathed for at least 90mph.

On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 10:00:10 +0000,
martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:

>On 19/02/2022 08:29, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> On 18/02/2022 22:28, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>> On 18/02/2022 22:06, Recliner wrote:
>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Graham Harrison <edward.harrisom.one@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 21:16:53 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying
>>>>>>> Scotsman are
>>>>>>> shown in RTT?  I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I
>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised
>>>>>>> timings. The
>>>>>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022 " rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail and the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> British
>>>>>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I just received a message to say it's been cancelled.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ah, yes, you're right, thanks for the warning. I've not yet received an
>>>>> email to that effect, but it's on the website:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022
>>>>
>>>> Found the email:
>>>>
>>>> Cotswold Venturer - Urgent Update - Tour Cancelled
>>>>
>>>> We have just been informed that despite the best efforts of the Network
>>>> Rail Charter Division in monitoring the situation throughout the day and
>>>> looking at alternative routing in case the original route was not
>>>> possible
>>>> for our train, the Regional Network Rail Route Director has this evening
>>>> made the decision to cancel our Cotswold Venturer train tomorrow.
>>>>
>>>> We are very sorry for the late notice of this cancellation, which is
>>>> outside of our control, and we apologise for any disappointment it may
>>>> cause, everyone involved had worked together in the hope that the train
>>>> would be able to take place tomorrow.
>>>>
>>>> We are now working with our operating company, West Coast Railways,
>>>> Network
>>>> Rail and the caretakers of Flying Scotsman to try and redate the tour in
>>>> March and will be in touch with you as soon as we have a firm date
>>>> for this
>>>> rescheduling. Should the new date not be convenient for you, then you
>>>> will
>>>> be entitled to transfer your funds to a different tour or to receive
>>>> a full
>>>> refund of monies paid to us.
>>>>
>>>> Your patience at this time will be appreciated whilst we make the
>>>> necessary
>>>> arrangements, we will be in touch with you again in the coming days to
>>>> advise further.
>>>>
>>>> Once again our sincere apologies for any inconvenience.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> —————
>>>>
>>>> I wonder how much this will cost the FS operation (NRM?), WCR, RTC and
>>>> Gravy Train (caterers), and wonder if NR covers some or all of the
>>>> costs?
>>>>
>>>> I don't have any wasted travel or hotel costs, but I'm sure many of the
>>>> other would-be passengers will have.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I suspect some will already be in their hotel without access to their
>>> email and perhaps unaware.  I hope there are not too many
>>> disappointments at the departure points tomorrow.
>>
>> The sort of people who can afford these trips won't have access to email
>> from their hotels? Seriously?
>>
>Yes.
>
I have been in hotels where both the mobile data and hotel WiFi have
been next to useless.