On 19/02/2022 10:00, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
> On 19/02/2022 08:29, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> On 18/02/2022 22:28, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>> On 18/02/2022 22:06, Recliner wrote:
>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Graham Harrison <edward.harrisom.one@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 21:16:53 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying
>>>>>>> Scotsman are
>>>>>>> shown in RTT?  I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and
>>>>>>> I know
>>>>>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised
>>>>>>> timings. The
>>>>>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022 " rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail and the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> British
>>>>>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I just received a message to say it's been cancelled.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ah, yes, you're right, thanks for the warning. I've not yet
>>>>> received an
>>>>> email to that effect, but it's on the website:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022
>>>>
>>>> Found the email:
>>>>
>>>> Cotswold Venturer - Urgent Update - Tour Cancelled
>>>>
>>>> We have just been informed that despite the best efforts of the Network
>>>> Rail Charter Division in monitoring the situation throughout the day
>>>> and
>>>> looking at alternative routing in case the original route was not
>>>> possible
>>>> for our train, the Regional Network Rail Route Director has this
>>>> evening
>>>> made the decision to cancel our Cotswold Venturer train tomorrow.
>>>>
>>>> We are very sorry for the late notice of this cancellation, which is
>>>> outside of our control, and we apologise for any disappointment it may
>>>> cause, everyone involved had worked together in the hope that the train
>>>> would be able to take place tomorrow.
>>>>
>>>> We are now working with our operating company, West Coast Railways,
>>>> Network
>>>> Rail and the caretakers of Flying Scotsman to try and redate the
>>>> tour in
>>>> March and will be in touch with you as soon as we have a firm date
>>>> for this
>>>> rescheduling. Should the new date not be convenient for you, then
>>>> you will
>>>> be entitled to transfer your funds to a different tour or to receive
>>>> a full
>>>> refund of monies paid to us.
>>>>
>>>> Your patience at this time will be appreciated whilst we make the
>>>> necessary
>>>> arrangements, we will be in touch with you again in the coming days to
>>>> advise further.
>>>>
>>>> Once again our sincere apologies for any inconvenience.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> —————
>>>>
>>>> I wonder how much this will cost the FS operation (NRM?), WCR, RTC and
>>>> Gravy Train (caterers), and wonder if NR covers some or all of the
>>>> costs?
>>>>
>>>> I don't have any wasted travel or hotel costs, but I'm sure many of the
>>>> other would-be passengers will have.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I suspect some will already be in their hotel without access to their
>>> email and perhaps unaware.  I hope there are not too many
>>> disappointments at the departure points tomorrow.
>>
>> The sort of people who can afford these trips won't have access to
>> email from their hotels? Seriously?
>>
> Yes.

Sorry, that's nonsense.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 19/02/2022 08:27, Graeme Wall wrote:
> On 18/02/2022 22:06, Recliner wrote:
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Graham Harrison <edward.harrisom.one@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 21:16:53 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying Scotsman
>>>>> are
>>>>> shown in RTT?  I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I
>>>>> know
>>>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised
>>>>> timings. The
>>>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022 " rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>>>
>>>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>>>
>>>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail and the
>>>>>
>>>>> British
>>>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>>>>
>>>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>>>
>>>> I just received a message to say it's been cancelled.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Ah, yes, you're right, thanks for the warning. I've not yet received an
>>> email to that effect, but it's on the website:
>>>
>>> https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022
>>
>> Found the email:
>>
>> Cotswold Venturer - Urgent Update - Tour Cancelled
>>
>> We have just been informed that despite the best efforts of the Network
>> Rail Charter Division in monitoring the situation throughout the day and
>> looking at alternative routing in case the original route was not
>> possible
>> for our train, the Regional Network Rail Route Director has this evening
>> made the decision to cancel our Cotswold Venturer train tomorrow.
>>
>> We are very sorry for the late notice of this cancellation, which is
>> outside of our control, and we apologise for any disappointment it may
>> cause, everyone involved had worked together in the hope that the train
>> would be able to take place tomorrow.
>>
>> We are now working with our operating company, West Coast Railways,
>> Network
>> Rail and the caretakers of Flying Scotsman to try and redate the tour in
>> March and will be in touch with you as soon as we have a firm date for
>> this
>> rescheduling. Should the new date not be convenient for you, then you
>> will
>> be entitled to transfer your funds to a different tour or to receive a
>> full
>> refund of monies paid to us.
>>
>> Your patience at this time will be appreciated whilst we make the
>> necessary
>> arrangements, we will be in touch with you again in the coming days to
>> advise further.
>>
>> Once again our sincere apologies for any inconvenience.
>>
>>
>> —————
>>
>> I wonder how much this will cost the FS operation (NRM?), WCR, RTC and
>> Gravy Train (caterers), and wonder if NR covers some or all of the costs?
>>
>> I don't have any wasted travel or hotel costs, but I'm sure many of the
>> other would-be passengers will have.
>>
>
> Act of God invoked presumably.
>

Two other railtours / charters have managed to run today (19 February),
albeit both running rather late:

Reading to Lincoln:

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U68002/2022-02-19/detailed

and Telford Central to Appleby:

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U91449/2022-02-19/detailed#allox_id=0

In message <suqh0e$447$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:32:48 on Sat, 19 Feb
2022, Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> remarked:
>On 19/02/2022 08:27, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> On 18/02/2022 22:06, Recliner wrote:
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Graham Harrison <edward.harrisom.one@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 21:16:53 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying
>>>>>>Scotsman are
>>>>>> shown in RTT?  I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and
>>>>>>I know
>>>>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised
>>>>>>timings. The
>>>>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022 " rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked 
>>>>>>by Network Rail and the
>>>>>> British
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for th
>>>>>>e train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>>>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>>>>
>>>>> I just received a message to say it's been cancelled.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ah, yes, you're right, thanks for the warning. I've not yet received an
>>>> email to that effect, but it's on the website:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022
>>>
>>> Found the email:
>>>
>>> Cotswold Venturer - Urgent Update - Tour Cancelled
>>>
>>> We have just been informed that despite the best efforts of the Network
>>> Rail Charter Division in monitoring the situation throughout the day and
>>> looking at alternative routing in case the original route was not
>>>possible
>>> for our train, the Regional Network Rail Route Director has this evening
>>> made the decision to cancel our Cotswold Venturer train tomorrow.
>>>
>>> We are very sorry for the late notice of this cancellation, which is
>>> outside of our control, and we apologise for any disappointment it may
>>> cause, everyone involved had worked together in the hope that the train
>>> would be able to take place tomorrow.
>>>
>>> We are now working with our operating company, West Coast Railways,
>>>Network
>>> Rail and the caretakers of Flying Scotsman to try and redate the tour in
>>> March and will be in touch with you as soon as we have a firm date
>>>for this
>>> rescheduling. Should the new date not be convenient for you, then
>>>you will
>>> be entitled to transfer your funds to a different tour or to receive
>>>a full
>>> refund of monies paid to us.
>>>
>>> Your patience at this time will be appreciated whilst we make the
>>>necessary
>>> arrangements, we will be in touch with you again in the coming days to
>>> advise further.
>>>
>>> Once again our sincere apologies for any inconvenience.
>>>
>>>
>>> —————
>>>
>>> I wonder how much this will cost the FS operation (NRM?), WCR, RTC and
>>> Gravy Train (caterers), and wonder if NR covers some or all of the costs?
>>>
>>> I don't have any wasted travel or hotel costs, but I'm sure many of the
>>> other would-be passengers will have.
>>>
>> Act of God invoked presumably.
>
>Two other railtours / charters have managed to run today (19 February),
>albeit both running rather late:
>
>Reading to Lincoln:
>
>https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U68002/2022-02-19/detailed

+137 at Banbury!

>and Telford Central to Appleby:
>
>https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U91449/2022-02-19/detaile
>d#allox_id=0

Are either of them kettles?
--
Roland Perry

Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 19/02/2022 08:27, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> On 18/02/2022 22:06, Recliner wrote:
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Graham Harrison <edward.harrisom.one@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 21:16:53 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying Scotsman
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> shown in RTT?  I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I
>>>>>> know
>>>>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised
>>>>>> timings. The
>>>>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022 " rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail and the
>>>>>>
>>>>>> British
>>>>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>>>>
>>>>> I just received a message to say it's been cancelled.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ah, yes, you're right, thanks for the warning. I've not yet received an
>>>> email to that effect, but it's on the website:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022
>>>
>>> Found the email:
>>>
>>> Cotswold Venturer - Urgent Update - Tour Cancelled
>>>
>>> We have just been informed that despite the best efforts of the Network
>>> Rail Charter Division in monitoring the situation throughout the day and
>>> looking at alternative routing in case the original route was not
>>> possible
>>> for our train, the Regional Network Rail Route Director has this evening
>>> made the decision to cancel our Cotswold Venturer train tomorrow.
>>>
>>> We are very sorry for the late notice of this cancellation, which is
>>> outside of our control, and we apologise for any disappointment it may
>>> cause, everyone involved had worked together in the hope that the train
>>> would be able to take place tomorrow.
>>>
>>> We are now working with our operating company, West Coast Railways,
>>> Network
>>> Rail and the caretakers of Flying Scotsman to try and redate the tour in
>>> March and will be in touch with you as soon as we have a firm date for
>>> this
>>> rescheduling. Should the new date not be convenient for you, then you
>>> will
>>> be entitled to transfer your funds to a different tour or to receive a
>>> full
>>> refund of monies paid to us.
>>>
>>> Your patience at this time will be appreciated whilst we make the
>>> necessary
>>> arrangements, we will be in touch with you again in the coming days to
>>> advise further.
>>>
>>> Once again our sincere apologies for any inconvenience.
>>>
>>>
>>> —————
>>>
>>> I wonder how much this will cost the FS operation (NRM?), WCR, RTC and
>>> Gravy Train (caterers), and wonder if NR covers some or all of the costs?
>>>
>>> I don't have any wasted travel or hotel costs, but I'm sure many of the
>>> other would-be passengers will have.
>>>
>>
>> Act of God invoked presumably.
>>
>
> Two other railtours / charters have managed to run today (19 February),
> albeit both running rather late:
>
> Reading to Lincoln:
>
> https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U68002/2022-02-19/detailed
>
> and Telford Central to Appleby:
>
> https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U91449/2022-02-19/detailed#allox_id=0
>

Those sorts of delays can put the kibosh on a steam train, with its
carefully planned water stopsnajd limited endurance between them. But I
suspect that NR just didn't want to have to accommodate a slow, thirsty
steam train on an already very disrupted network. The fact that it was
hauled by FS would have made it worse, not better.

Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>> On 19/02/2022 08:29, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>> On 18/02/2022 22:28, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>>> On 18/02/2022 22:06, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Graham Harrison <edward.harrisom.one@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 21:16:53 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying
>>>>>>>> Scotsman are
>>>>>>>> shown in RTT?  I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I
>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised
>>>>>>>> timings. The
>>>>>>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022 " rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail and the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> British
>>>>>>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I just received a message to say it's been cancelled.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ah, yes, you're right, thanks for the warning. I've not yet received an
>>>>>> email to that effect, but it's on the website:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022
>>>>>
>>>>> Found the email:
>>>>>
>>>>> Cotswold Venturer - Urgent Update - Tour Cancelled
>>>>>
>>>>> We have just been informed that despite the best efforts of the Network
>>>>> Rail Charter Division in monitoring the situation throughout the day and
>>>>> looking at alternative routing in case the original route was not
>>>>> possible
>>>>> for our train, the Regional Network Rail Route Director has this evening
>>>>> made the decision to cancel our Cotswold Venturer train tomorrow.
>>>>>
>>>>> We are very sorry for the late notice of this cancellation, which is
>>>>> outside of our control, and we apologise for any disappointment it may
>>>>> cause, everyone involved had worked together in the hope that the train
>>>>> would be able to take place tomorrow.
>>>>>
>>>>> We are now working with our operating company, West Coast Railways,
>>>>> Network
>>>>> Rail and the caretakers of Flying Scotsman to try and redate the tour in
>>>>> March and will be in touch with you as soon as we have a firm date
>>>>> for this
>>>>> rescheduling. Should the new date not be convenient for you, then you
>>>>> will
>>>>> be entitled to transfer your funds to a different tour or to receive
>>>>> a full
>>>>> refund of monies paid to us.
>>>>>
>>>>> Your patience at this time will be appreciated whilst we make the
>>>>> necessary
>>>>> arrangements, we will be in touch with you again in the coming days to
>>>>> advise further.
>>>>>
>>>>> Once again our sincere apologies for any inconvenience.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> —————
>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder how much this will cost the FS operation (NRM?), WCR, RTC and
>>>>> Gravy Train (caterers), and wonder if NR covers some or all of the
>>>>> costs?
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't have any wasted travel or hotel costs, but I'm sure many of the
>>>>> other would-be passengers will have.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I suspect some will already be in their hotel without access to their
>>>> email and perhaps unaware.  I hope there are not too many
>>>> disappointments at the departure points tomorrow.
>>>
>>> The sort of people who can afford these trips won't have access to email
>>> from their hotels? Seriously?
>>>
>> Yes.
>>
>
> I went on a day trip with Statesman recently. The demographic was very much
> in the retired and long retired area. They all had smartphones. The idea
> that the elderly can’t handle smartphones is fast becoming obsolete.
>

I still come across older folks on tours with neither home email nor
smartphones, and occasionally not even a basic mobile phone at all. Some
use(d) email at work, but never felt the need for it at home. They're
definitely a small, shrinking minority, but they do still exist. So it's
quite possible that a few such people were booked on this trip.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <suqh0e$447$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:32:48 on Sat, 19 Feb
> 2022, Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> remarked:
>> On 19/02/2022 08:27, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>> On 18/02/2022 22:06, Recliner wrote:
>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Graham Harrison <edward.harrisom.one@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 21:16:53 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying
>>>>>>> Scotsman are
>>>>>>> shown in RTT?  I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and
>>>>>>> I know
>>>>>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised
>>>>>>> timings. The
>>>>>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022 " rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked 
>>>>>>> by Network Rail and the
>>>>>>> British
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for th
>>>>>>> e train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>>>>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I just received a message to say it's been cancelled.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ah, yes, you're right, thanks for the warning. I've not yet received an
>>>>> email to that effect, but it's on the website:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022
>>>>
>>>> Found the email:
>>>>
>>>> Cotswold Venturer - Urgent Update - Tour Cancelled
>>>>
>>>> We have just been informed that despite the best efforts of the Network
>>>> Rail Charter Division in monitoring the situation throughout the day and
>>>> looking at alternative routing in case the original route was not
>>>> possible
>>>> for our train, the Regional Network Rail Route Director has this evening
>>>> made the decision to cancel our Cotswold Venturer train tomorrow.
>>>>
>>>> We are very sorry for the late notice of this cancellation, which is
>>>> outside of our control, and we apologise for any disappointment it may
>>>> cause, everyone involved had worked together in the hope that the train
>>>> would be able to take place tomorrow.
>>>>
>>>> We are now working with our operating company, West Coast Railways,
>>>> Network
>>>> Rail and the caretakers of Flying Scotsman to try and redate the tour in
>>>> March and will be in touch with you as soon as we have a firm date
>>>> for this
>>>> rescheduling. Should the new date not be convenient for you, then
>>>> you will
>>>> be entitled to transfer your funds to a different tour or to receive
>>>> a full
>>>> refund of monies paid to us.
>>>>
>>>> Your patience at this time will be appreciated whilst we make the
>>>> necessary
>>>> arrangements, we will be in touch with you again in the coming days to
>>>> advise further.
>>>>
>>>> Once again our sincere apologies for any inconvenience.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> —————
>>>>
>>>> I wonder how much this will cost the FS operation (NRM?), WCR, RTC and
>>>> Gravy Train (caterers), and wonder if NR covers some or all of the costs?
>>>>
>>>> I don't have any wasted travel or hotel costs, but I'm sure many of the
>>>> other would-be passengers will have.
>>>>
>>> Act of God invoked presumably.
>>
>> Two other railtours / charters have managed to run today (19 February),
>> albeit both running rather late:
>>
>> Reading to Lincoln:
>>
>> https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U68002/2022-02-19/detailed
>
> +137 at Banbury!
>
>> and Telford Central to Appleby:
>>
>> https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U91449/2022-02-19/detaile
>> d#allox_id=0
>
> Are either of them kettles?

No, as you can see from RTT, they're diesel-hauled.

On 19/02/2022 11:21, Recliner wrote:
> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>> On 19/02/2022 08:29, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>> On 18/02/2022 22:28, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>>>> On 18/02/2022 22:06, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Graham Harrison <edward.harrisom.one@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 21:16:53 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying
>>>>>>>>> Scotsman are
>>>>>>>>> shown in RTT?  I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I
>>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised
>>>>>>>>> timings. The
>>>>>>>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022 " rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail and the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> British
>>>>>>>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I just received a message to say it's been cancelled.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ah, yes, you're right, thanks for the warning. I've not yet received an
>>>>>>> email to that effect, but it's on the website:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Found the email:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cotswold Venturer - Urgent Update - Tour Cancelled
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We have just been informed that despite the best efforts of the Network
>>>>>> Rail Charter Division in monitoring the situation throughout the day and
>>>>>> looking at alternative routing in case the original route was not
>>>>>> possible
>>>>>> for our train, the Regional Network Rail Route Director has this evening
>>>>>> made the decision to cancel our Cotswold Venturer train tomorrow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We are very sorry for the late notice of this cancellation, which is
>>>>>> outside of our control, and we apologise for any disappointment it may
>>>>>> cause, everyone involved had worked together in the hope that the train
>>>>>> would be able to take place tomorrow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We are now working with our operating company, West Coast Railways,
>>>>>> Network
>>>>>> Rail and the caretakers of Flying Scotsman to try and redate the tour in
>>>>>> March and will be in touch with you as soon as we have a firm date
>>>>>> for this
>>>>>> rescheduling. Should the new date not be convenient for you, then you
>>>>>> will
>>>>>> be entitled to transfer your funds to a different tour or to receive
>>>>>> a full
>>>>>> refund of monies paid to us.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your patience at this time will be appreciated whilst we make the
>>>>>> necessary
>>>>>> arrangements, we will be in touch with you again in the coming days to
>>>>>> advise further.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Once again our sincere apologies for any inconvenience.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> —————
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wonder how much this will cost the FS operation (NRM?), WCR, RTC and
>>>>>> Gravy Train (caterers), and wonder if NR covers some or all of the
>>>>>> costs?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't have any wasted travel or hotel costs, but I'm sure many of the
>>>>>> other would-be passengers will have.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I suspect some will already be in their hotel without access to their
>>>>> email and perhaps unaware.  I hope there are not too many
>>>>> disappointments at the departure points tomorrow.
>>>>
>>>> The sort of people who can afford these trips won't have access to email
>>>> from their hotels? Seriously?
>>>>
>>> Yes.
>>>
>>
>> I went on a day trip with Statesman recently. The demographic was very much
>> in the retired and long retired area. They all had smartphones. The idea
>> that the elderly can’t handle smartphones is fast becoming obsolete.
>>
>
> I still come across older folks on tours with neither home email nor
> smartphones, and occasionally not even a basic mobile phone at all. Some
> use(d) email at work, but never felt the need for it at home. They're
> definitely a small, shrinking minority, but they do still exist. So it's
> quite possible that a few such people were booked on this trip.
>
I've got a couple of friends with smart phones but they only use them to
make or receive calls. Don't leave them voice mail as they have no idea
what to do with it.

The only email I have on my phone is my personal address only known to
relatives and close friends. I certainly wouldn't trust it to
commercial organisations.

I see that RTT shows a distinctly unlikely reason for the cancellation:

This service was cancelled due to temporary speed restrictions as a result
of heat (X4).

<https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U64028/2022-02-19/detailed>

I assume someone in NR had to input a code and couldn't find a suitable
one, so picked one at random.

On 19/02/2022 11:35, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
> On 19/02/2022 11:21, Recliner wrote:
>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 19/02/2022 08:29, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>> On 18/02/2022 22:28, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>>>>> On 18/02/2022 22:06, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Graham Harrison <edward.harrisom.one@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 21:16:53 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying
>>>>>>>>>> Scotsman are
>>>>>>>>>> shown in RTT?  I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet),
>>>>>>>>>> and I
>>>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised
>>>>>>>>>> timings. The
>>>>>>>>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022 " rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail and the
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> British
>>>>>>>>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I just received a message to say it's been cancelled.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ah, yes, you're right, thanks for the warning. I've not yet
>>>>>>>> received an
>>>>>>>> email to that effect, but it's on the website:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Found the email:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cotswold Venturer - Urgent Update - Tour Cancelled
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We have just been informed that despite the best efforts of the
>>>>>>> Network
>>>>>>> Rail Charter Division in monitoring the situation throughout the
>>>>>>> day and
>>>>>>> looking at alternative routing in case the original route was not
>>>>>>> possible
>>>>>>> for our train, the Regional Network Rail Route Director has this
>>>>>>> evening
>>>>>>> made the decision to cancel our Cotswold Venturer train tomorrow.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We are very sorry for the late notice of this cancellation, which is
>>>>>>> outside of our control, and we apologise for any disappointment
>>>>>>> it may
>>>>>>> cause, everyone involved had worked together in the hope that the
>>>>>>> train
>>>>>>> would be able to take place tomorrow.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We are now working with our operating company, West Coast Railways,
>>>>>>> Network
>>>>>>> Rail and the caretakers of Flying Scotsman to try and redate the
>>>>>>> tour in
>>>>>>> March and will be in touch with you as soon as we have a firm date
>>>>>>> for this
>>>>>>> rescheduling. Should the new date not be convenient for you, then
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>> be entitled to transfer your funds to a different tour or to receive
>>>>>>> a full
>>>>>>> refund of monies paid to us.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Your patience at this time will be appreciated whilst we make the
>>>>>>> necessary
>>>>>>> arrangements, we will be in touch with you again in the coming
>>>>>>> days to
>>>>>>> advise further.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Once again our sincere apologies for any inconvenience.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> —————
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I wonder how much this will cost the FS operation (NRM?), WCR,
>>>>>>> RTC and
>>>>>>> Gravy Train (caterers), and wonder if NR covers some or all of the
>>>>>>> costs?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't have any wasted travel or hotel costs, but I'm sure many
>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>> other would-be passengers will have.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I suspect some will already be in their hotel without access to their
>>>>>> email and perhaps unaware.  I hope there are not too many
>>>>>> disappointments at the departure points tomorrow.
>>>>>
>>>>> The sort of people who can afford these trips won't have access to
>>>>> email
>>>>> from their hotels? Seriously?
>>>>>
>>>> Yes.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I went on a day trip with Statesman recently. The demographic was
>>> very much
>>> in the retired and long retired area. They all had smartphones. The idea
>>> that the elderly can’t handle smartphones is fast becoming obsolete.
>>
>> I still come across older folks on tours with neither home email nor
>> smartphones, and occasionally not even a basic mobile phone at all. Some
>> use(d) email at work, but never felt the need for it at home. They're
>> definitely a small, shrinking minority, but they do still exist. So it's
>> quite possible that a few such people were booked on this trip.
>>
> I've got a couple of friends with smart phones but they only use them to
> make or receive calls.  Don't leave them voice mail as they have no idea
> what to do with it.
>
> The only email I have on my phone is my personal address only known to
> relatives and close friends.  I certainly wouldn't trust it to
> commercial organisations.

What's wrong with having a sacrificial gmail address for companies to
use? Not difficult to have a second or third address on your phone and
abandon it if/when it gets abused.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 19/02/2022 11:53, Recliner wrote:
> I see that RTT shows a distinctly unlikely reason for the cancellation:
>
> This service was cancelled due to temporary speed restrictions as a result
> of heat (X4).
>
> <https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U64028/2022-02-19/detailed>
>
> I assume someone in NR had to input a code and couldn't find a suitable
> one, so picked one at random.

The saw on the other week which said "This service was cancelled because
the service was cancelled" or something like that.

In message <suqkmj$ds3$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:35:46 on Sat, 19 Feb
2022, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:

>The only email I have on my phone is my personal address only known to
>relatives and close friends. I certainly wouldn't trust it to
>commercial organisations.

Most smartphones need an email address from either Apple or Google to
set them up. But I'm loving all this anti-email-on-phone stuff, having
been on the receiving end of accusations of being an anti-Mticketing
luddite in the past.
--
Roland Perry

On 19/02/2022 11:54, Graeme Wall wrote:
> On 19/02/2022 11:35, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>> On 19/02/2022 11:21, Recliner wrote:
>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 19/02/2022 08:29, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>>> On 18/02/2022 22:28, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>>>>>> On 18/02/2022 22:06, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Graham Harrison <edward.harrisom.one@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 21:16:53 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying
>>>>>>>>>>> Scotsman are
>>>>>>>>>>> shown in RTT?  I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet),
>>>>>>>>>>> and I
>>>>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>>>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised
>>>>>>>>>>> timings. The
>>>>>>>>>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022 " rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail and the
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> British
>>>>>>>>>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I just received a message to say it's been cancelled.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ah, yes, you're right, thanks for the warning. I've not yet
>>>>>>>>> received an
>>>>>>>>> email to that effect, but it's on the website:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Found the email:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cotswold Venturer - Urgent Update - Tour Cancelled
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We have just been informed that despite the best efforts of the
>>>>>>>> Network
>>>>>>>> Rail Charter Division in monitoring the situation throughout the
>>>>>>>> day and
>>>>>>>> looking at alternative routing in case the original route was not
>>>>>>>> possible
>>>>>>>> for our train, the Regional Network Rail Route Director has this
>>>>>>>> evening
>>>>>>>> made the decision to cancel our Cotswold Venturer train tomorrow.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We are very sorry for the late notice of this cancellation,
>>>>>>>> which is
>>>>>>>> outside of our control, and we apologise for any disappointment
>>>>>>>> it may
>>>>>>>> cause, everyone involved had worked together in the hope that
>>>>>>>> the train
>>>>>>>> would be able to take place tomorrow.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We are now working with our operating company, West Coast Railways,
>>>>>>>> Network
>>>>>>>> Rail and the caretakers of Flying Scotsman to try and redate the
>>>>>>>> tour in
>>>>>>>> March and will be in touch with you as soon as we have a firm date
>>>>>>>> for this
>>>>>>>> rescheduling. Should the new date not be convenient for you,
>>>>>>>> then you
>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>> be entitled to transfer your funds to a different tour or to
>>>>>>>> receive
>>>>>>>> a full
>>>>>>>> refund of monies paid to us.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Your patience at this time will be appreciated whilst we make the
>>>>>>>> necessary
>>>>>>>> arrangements, we will be in touch with you again in the coming
>>>>>>>> days to
>>>>>>>> advise further.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Once again our sincere apologies for any inconvenience.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> —————
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I wonder how much this will cost the FS operation (NRM?), WCR,
>>>>>>>> RTC and
>>>>>>>> Gravy Train (caterers), and wonder if NR covers some or all of the
>>>>>>>> costs?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't have any wasted travel or hotel costs, but I'm sure many
>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>> other would-be passengers will have.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I suspect some will already be in their hotel without access to
>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>> email and perhaps unaware.  I hope there are not too many
>>>>>>> disappointments at the departure points tomorrow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The sort of people who can afford these trips won't have access to
>>>>>> email
>>>>>> from their hotels? Seriously?
>>>>>>
>>>>> Yes.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I went on a day trip with Statesman recently. The demographic was
>>>> very much
>>>> in the retired and long retired area. They all had smartphones. The
>>>> idea
>>>> that the elderly can’t handle smartphones is fast becoming obsolete.
>>>
>>> I still come across older folks on tours with neither home email nor
>>> smartphones, and occasionally not even a basic mobile phone at all. Some
>>> use(d) email at work, but never felt the need for it at home. They're
>>> definitely a small, shrinking minority, but they do still exist. So it's
>>> quite possible that a few such people were booked on this trip.
>>>
>> I've got a couple of friends with smart phones but they only use them
>> to make or receive calls.  Don't leave them voice mail as they have no
>> idea what to do with it.
>>
>> The only email I have on my phone is my personal address only known to
>> relatives and close friends.  I certainly wouldn't trust it to
>> commercial organisations.
>
> What's wrong with having a sacrificial gmail address for companies to
> use? Not difficult to have a second or third address on your phone and
> abandon it if/when it gets abused.
>
Too much hassle. It's a painful process setting up google email addresses.

I like to provide each organisation I have a dealing with a unique email
address.

<martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
> On 19/02/2022 11:53, Recliner wrote:
>> I see that RTT shows a distinctly unlikely reason for the cancellation:
>>
>> This service was cancelled due to temporary speed restrictions as a result
>> of heat (X4).
>>
>> <https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U64028/2022-02-19/detailed>
>>
>> I assume someone in NR had to input a code and couldn't find a suitable
>> one, so picked one at random.
>
> The saw on the other week which said "This service was cancelled because
> the service was cancelled" or something like that.
>

Perhaps because the previous service was cancelled?

In message <suqk76$4af$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:27:34 on Sat, 19 Feb
2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

>>> https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U68002/2022-02-19/detailed
>>
>> +137 at Banbury!
>>
>>> and Telford Central to Appleby:
>>>
>>> https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U91449/2022-02-19/detaile
>>> d#allox_id=0
>>
>> Are either of them kettles?
>
>No, as you can see from RTT, they're diesel-hauled.

Pathed-as (just like the tour from Paddington), but it doesn't give the
actual traction.
--
Roland Perry

In message <suqnml$b22$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:27:01 on Sat, 19 Feb
2022, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:

>> What's wrong with having a sacrificial gmail address for companies
>>to use? Not difficult to have a second or third address on your phone
>>and abandon it if/when it gets abused.
>>
>Too much hassle. It's a painful process setting up google email
>addresses.
>
>I like to provide each organisation I have a dealing with a unique
>email address.

And how often has that identified a data breach?
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <suqk76$4af$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:27:34 on Sat, 19 Feb
> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>
>>>> https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U68002/2022-02-19/detailed
>>>
>>> +137 at Banbury!
>>>
>>>> and Telford Central to Appleby:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U91449/2022-02-19/detaile
>>>> d#allox_id=0
>>>
>>> Are either of them kettles?
>>
>> No, as you can see from RTT, they're diesel-hauled.
>
> Pathed-as (just like the tour from Paddington), but it doesn't give the
> actual traction.

The second one does. And if it's pathed as a 75mph diesel, then it's an
actual diesel, not steam. Steam is pathed as a 60mph diesel, even the
kettles with a 75mph allowed speed.

On 19/02/2022 12:27, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
> On 19/02/2022 11:54, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> On 19/02/2022 11:35, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>> On 19/02/2022 11:21, Recliner wrote:
>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> On 19/02/2022 08:29, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>>>> On 18/02/2022 22:28, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 18/02/2022 22:06, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Graham Harrison <edward.harrisom.one@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 21:16:53 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying
>>>>>>>>>>>> Scotsman are
>>>>>>>>>>>> shown in RTT?  I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet),
>>>>>>>>>>>> and I
>>>>>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>>>>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised
>>>>>>>>>>>> timings. The
>>>>>>>>>>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022 " rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> British
>>>>>>>>>>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I just received a message to say it's been cancelled.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ah, yes, you're right, thanks for the warning. I've not yet
>>>>>>>>>> received an
>>>>>>>>>> email to that effect, but it's on the website:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Found the email:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cotswold Venturer - Urgent Update - Tour Cancelled
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We have just been informed that despite the best efforts of the
>>>>>>>>> Network
>>>>>>>>> Rail Charter Division in monitoring the situation throughout
>>>>>>>>> the day and
>>>>>>>>> looking at alternative routing in case the original route was not
>>>>>>>>> possible
>>>>>>>>> for our train, the Regional Network Rail Route Director has
>>>>>>>>> this evening
>>>>>>>>> made the decision to cancel our Cotswold Venturer train tomorrow.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We are very sorry for the late notice of this cancellation,
>>>>>>>>> which is
>>>>>>>>> outside of our control, and we apologise for any disappointment
>>>>>>>>> it may
>>>>>>>>> cause, everyone involved had worked together in the hope that
>>>>>>>>> the train
>>>>>>>>> would be able to take place tomorrow.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We are now working with our operating company, West Coast
>>>>>>>>> Railways,
>>>>>>>>> Network
>>>>>>>>> Rail and the caretakers of Flying Scotsman to try and redate
>>>>>>>>> the tour in
>>>>>>>>> March and will be in touch with you as soon as we have a firm date
>>>>>>>>> for this
>>>>>>>>> rescheduling. Should the new date not be convenient for you,
>>>>>>>>> then you
>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>> be entitled to transfer your funds to a different tour or to
>>>>>>>>> receive
>>>>>>>>> a full
>>>>>>>>> refund of monies paid to us.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Your patience at this time will be appreciated whilst we make the
>>>>>>>>> necessary
>>>>>>>>> arrangements, we will be in touch with you again in the coming
>>>>>>>>> days to
>>>>>>>>> advise further.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Once again our sincere apologies for any inconvenience.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> —————
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I wonder how much this will cost the FS operation (NRM?), WCR,
>>>>>>>>> RTC and
>>>>>>>>> Gravy Train (caterers), and wonder if NR covers some or all of the
>>>>>>>>> costs?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't have any wasted travel or hotel costs, but I'm sure
>>>>>>>>> many of the
>>>>>>>>> other would-be passengers will have.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I suspect some will already be in their hotel without access to
>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>> email and perhaps unaware.  I hope there are not too many
>>>>>>>> disappointments at the departure points tomorrow.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The sort of people who can afford these trips won't have access
>>>>>>> to email
>>>>>>> from their hotels? Seriously?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I went on a day trip with Statesman recently. The demographic was
>>>>> very much
>>>>> in the retired and long retired area. They all had smartphones. The
>>>>> idea
>>>>> that the elderly can’t handle smartphones is fast becoming obsolete.
>>>>
>>>> I still come across older folks on tours with neither home email nor
>>>> smartphones, and occasionally not even a basic mobile phone at all.
>>>> Some
>>>> use(d) email at work, but never felt the need for it at home. They're
>>>> definitely a small, shrinking minority, but they do still exist. So
>>>> it's
>>>> quite possible that a few such people were booked on this trip.
>>>>
>>> I've got a couple of friends with smart phones but they only use them
>>> to make or receive calls.  Don't leave them voice mail as they have
>>> no idea what to do with it.
>>>
>>> The only email I have on my phone is my personal address only known
>>> to relatives and close friends.  I certainly wouldn't trust it to
>>> commercial organisations.
>>
>> What's wrong with having a sacrificial gmail address for companies to
>> use? Not difficult to have a second or third address on your phone and
>> abandon it if/when it gets abused.
>>
> Too much hassle.  It's a painful process setting up google email addresses.
>
> I like to provide each organisation I have a dealing with a unique email
> address.

On 19/02/2022 12:37, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <suqnml$b22$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:27:01 on Sat, 19 Feb
> 2022, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>
>>>  What's wrong with having a sacrificial gmail address for companies
>>> to  use? Not difficult to have a second or third address on your
>>> phone and  abandon it if/when it gets abused.
>>>
>> Too much hassle.  It's a painful process setting up google email
>> addresses.
>>
>> I like to provide each organisation I have a dealing with a unique
>> email address.
>
> And how often has that identified a data breach?

More than you might imagine. The usual procedure is that when the
company decides that I'm unlikely to purchase from them again they sell
my address on.

On 19/02/2022 12:54, Graeme Wall wrote:
> On 19/02/2022 12:27, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>> On 19/02/2022 11:54, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>> On 19/02/2022 11:35, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>>> On 19/02/2022 11:21, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 19/02/2022 08:29, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 18/02/2022 22:28, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 18/02/2022 22:06, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Graham Harrison <edward.harrisom.one@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 21:16:53 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>>>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Scotsman are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> shown in RTT?  I notice that this one hasn't appeared
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (yet), and I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised
>>>>>>>>>>>>> timings. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022 " rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> British
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I just received a message to say it's been cancelled.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ah, yes, you're right, thanks for the warning. I've not yet
>>>>>>>>>>> received an
>>>>>>>>>>> email to that effect, but it's on the website:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Found the email:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Cotswold Venturer - Urgent Update - Tour Cancelled
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We have just been informed that despite the best efforts of
>>>>>>>>>> the Network
>>>>>>>>>> Rail Charter Division in monitoring the situation throughout
>>>>>>>>>> the day and
>>>>>>>>>> looking at alternative routing in case the original route was not
>>>>>>>>>> possible
>>>>>>>>>> for our train, the Regional Network Rail Route Director has
>>>>>>>>>> this evening
>>>>>>>>>> made the decision to cancel our Cotswold Venturer train tomorrow.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We are very sorry for the late notice of this cancellation,
>>>>>>>>>> which is
>>>>>>>>>> outside of our control, and we apologise for any
>>>>>>>>>> disappointment it may
>>>>>>>>>> cause, everyone involved had worked together in the hope that
>>>>>>>>>> the train
>>>>>>>>>> would be able to take place tomorrow.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We are now working with our operating company, West Coast
>>>>>>>>>> Railways,
>>>>>>>>>> Network
>>>>>>>>>> Rail and the caretakers of Flying Scotsman to try and redate
>>>>>>>>>> the tour in
>>>>>>>>>> March and will be in touch with you as soon as we have a firm
>>>>>>>>>> date
>>>>>>>>>> for this
>>>>>>>>>> rescheduling. Should the new date not be convenient for you,
>>>>>>>>>> then you
>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>> be entitled to transfer your funds to a different tour or to
>>>>>>>>>> receive
>>>>>>>>>> a full
>>>>>>>>>> refund of monies paid to us.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Your patience at this time will be appreciated whilst we make the
>>>>>>>>>> necessary
>>>>>>>>>> arrangements, we will be in touch with you again in the coming
>>>>>>>>>> days to
>>>>>>>>>> advise further.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Once again our sincere apologies for any inconvenience.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> —————
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I wonder how much this will cost the FS operation (NRM?), WCR,
>>>>>>>>>> RTC and
>>>>>>>>>> Gravy Train (caterers), and wonder if NR covers some or all of
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> costs?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I don't have any wasted travel or hotel costs, but I'm sure
>>>>>>>>>> many of the
>>>>>>>>>> other would-be passengers will have.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I suspect some will already be in their hotel without access to
>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>> email and perhaps unaware.  I hope there are not too many
>>>>>>>>> disappointments at the departure points tomorrow.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The sort of people who can afford these trips won't have access
>>>>>>>> to email
>>>>>>>> from their hotels? Seriously?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I went on a day trip with Statesman recently. The demographic was
>>>>>> very much
>>>>>> in the retired and long retired area. They all had smartphones.
>>>>>> The idea
>>>>>> that the elderly can’t handle smartphones is fast becoming obsolete.
>>>>>
>>>>> I still come across older folks on tours with neither home email nor
>>>>> smartphones, and occasionally not even a basic mobile phone at all.
>>>>> Some
>>>>> use(d) email at work, but never felt the need for it at home. They're
>>>>> definitely a small, shrinking minority, but they do still exist. So
>>>>> it's
>>>>> quite possible that a few such people were booked on this trip.
>>>>>
>>>> I've got a couple of friends with smart phones but they only use
>>>> them to make or receive calls.  Don't leave them voice mail as they
>>>> have no idea what to do with it.
>>>>
>>>> The only email I have on my phone is my personal address only known
>>>> to relatives and close friends.  I certainly wouldn't trust it to
>>>> commercial organisations.
>>>
>>> What's wrong with having a sacrificial gmail address for companies to
>>> use? Not difficult to have a second or third address on your phone
>>> and abandon it if/when it gets abused.
>>>
>> Too much hassle.  It's a painful process setting up google email
>> addresses.
>>
>> I like to provide each organisation I have a dealing with a unique
>> email address.
>
> And that's not a hassle to set up?

On 19/02/2022 12:27, Recliner wrote:
> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>> On 19/02/2022 11:53, Recliner wrote:
>>> I see that RTT shows a distinctly unlikely reason for the cancellation:
>>>
>>> This service was cancelled due to temporary speed restrictions as a result
>>> of heat (X4).
>>>
>>> <https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U64028/2022-02-19/detailed>
>>>
>>> I assume someone in NR had to input a code and couldn't find a suitable
>>> one, so picked one at random.
>>
>> The saw on the other week which said "This service was cancelled because
>> the service was cancelled" or something like that.
>>
>
> Perhaps because the previous service was cancelled?
>
Probably but that's not what is said.

On 19/02/2022 11:27, Recliner wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <suqh0e$447$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:32:48 on Sat, 19 Feb
>> 2022, Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> On 19/02/2022 08:27, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>> On 18/02/2022 22:06, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Graham Harrison <edward.harrisom.one@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 21:16:53 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying
>>>>>>>> Scotsman are
>>>>>>>> shown in RTT?  I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and
>>>>>>>> I know
>>>>>>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised
>>>>>>>> timings. The
>>>>>>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022 " rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked
>>>>>>>> by Network Rail and the
>>>>>>>> British
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for th
>>>>>>>> e train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>>>>>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I just received a message to say it's been cancelled.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ah, yes, you're right, thanks for the warning. I've not yet received an
>>>>>> email to that effect, but it's on the website:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022
>>>>>
>>>>> Found the email:
>>>>>
>>>>> Cotswold Venturer - Urgent Update - Tour Cancelled
>>>>>
>>>>> We have just been informed that despite the best efforts of the Network
>>>>> Rail Charter Division in monitoring the situation throughout the day and
>>>>> looking at alternative routing in case the original route was not
>>>>> possible
>>>>> for our train, the Regional Network Rail Route Director has this evening
>>>>> made the decision to cancel our Cotswold Venturer train tomorrow.
>>>>>
>>>>> We are very sorry for the late notice of this cancellation, which is
>>>>> outside of our control, and we apologise for any disappointment it may
>>>>> cause, everyone involved had worked together in the hope that the train
>>>>> would be able to take place tomorrow.
>>>>>
>>>>> We are now working with our operating company, West Coast Railways,
>>>>> Network
>>>>> Rail and the caretakers of Flying Scotsman to try and redate the tour in
>>>>> March and will be in touch with you as soon as we have a firm date
>>>>> for this
>>>>> rescheduling. Should the new date not be convenient for you, then
>>>>> you will
>>>>> be entitled to transfer your funds to a different tour or to receive
>>>>> a full
>>>>> refund of monies paid to us.
>>>>>
>>>>> Your patience at this time will be appreciated whilst we make the
>>>>> necessary
>>>>> arrangements, we will be in touch with you again in the coming days to
>>>>> advise further.
>>>>>
>>>>> Once again our sincere apologies for any inconvenience.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> —————
>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder how much this will cost the FS operation (NRM?), WCR, RTC and
>>>>> Gravy Train (caterers), and wonder if NR covers some or all of the costs?
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't have any wasted travel or hotel costs, but I'm sure many of the
>>>>> other would-be passengers will have.
>>>>>
>>>> Act of God invoked presumably.
>>>
>>> Two other railtours / charters have managed to run today (19 February),
>>> albeit both running rather late:
>>>
>>> Reading to Lincoln:
>>>
>>> https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U68002/2022-02-19/detailed
>>
>> +137 at Banbury!
>>
>>> and Telford Central to Appleby:
>>>
>>> https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U91449/2022-02-19/detaile
>>> d#allox_id=0
>>
>> Are either of them kettles?
>
> No, as you can see from RTT, they're diesel-hauled.
>
According to reports elsewhere, a Class 68 to Lincoln, and a pair of 47s
to Appleby and back.

<martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
> On 19/02/2022 11:21, Recliner wrote:
>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 19/02/2022 08:29, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>> On 18/02/2022 22:28, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>>>>> On 18/02/2022 22:06, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Graham Harrison <edward.harrisom.one@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 21:16:53 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying
>>>>>>>>>> Scotsman are
>>>>>>>>>> shown in RTT?  I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I
>>>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised
>>>>>>>>>> timings. The
>>>>>>>>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022 " rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail and the
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> British
>>>>>>>>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I just received a message to say it's been cancelled.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ah, yes, you're right, thanks for the warning. I've not yet received an
>>>>>>>> email to that effect, but it's on the website:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Found the email:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cotswold Venturer - Urgent Update - Tour Cancelled
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We have just been informed that despite the best efforts of the Network
>>>>>>> Rail Charter Division in monitoring the situation throughout the day and
>>>>>>> looking at alternative routing in case the original route was not
>>>>>>> possible
>>>>>>> for our train, the Regional Network Rail Route Director has this evening
>>>>>>> made the decision to cancel our Cotswold Venturer train tomorrow.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We are very sorry for the late notice of this cancellation, which is
>>>>>>> outside of our control, and we apologise for any disappointment it may
>>>>>>> cause, everyone involved had worked together in the hope that the train
>>>>>>> would be able to take place tomorrow.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We are now working with our operating company, West Coast Railways,
>>>>>>> Network
>>>>>>> Rail and the caretakers of Flying Scotsman to try and redate the tour in
>>>>>>> March and will be in touch with you as soon as we have a firm date
>>>>>>> for this
>>>>>>> rescheduling. Should the new date not be convenient for you, then you
>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>> be entitled to transfer your funds to a different tour or to receive
>>>>>>> a full
>>>>>>> refund of monies paid to us.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Your patience at this time will be appreciated whilst we make the
>>>>>>> necessary
>>>>>>> arrangements, we will be in touch with you again in the coming days to
>>>>>>> advise further.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Once again our sincere apologies for any inconvenience.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> —————
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I wonder how much this will cost the FS operation (NRM?), WCR, RTC and
>>>>>>> Gravy Train (caterers), and wonder if NR covers some or all of the
>>>>>>> costs?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't have any wasted travel or hotel costs, but I'm sure many of the
>>>>>>> other would-be passengers will have.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I suspect some will already be in their hotel without access to their
>>>>>> email and perhaps unaware.  I hope there are not too many
>>>>>> disappointments at the departure points tomorrow.
>>>>>
>>>>> The sort of people who can afford these trips won't have access to email
>>>>> from their hotels? Seriously?
>>>>>
>>>> Yes.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I went on a day trip with Statesman recently. The demographic was very much
>>> in the retired and long retired area. They all had smartphones. The idea
>>> that the elderly can’t handle smartphones is fast becoming obsolete.
>>>
>>
>> I still come across older folks on tours with neither home email nor
>> smartphones, and occasionally not even a basic mobile phone at all. Some
>> use(d) email at work, but never felt the need for it at home. They're
>> definitely a small, shrinking minority, but they do still exist. So it's
>> quite possible that a few such people were booked on this trip.
>>
> I've got a couple of friends with smart phones but they only use them to
> make or receive calls. Don't leave them voice mail as they have no idea
> what to do with it.
>
> The only email I have on my phone is my personal address only known to
> relatives and close friends. I certainly wouldn't trust it to
> commercial organisations.
>

Well that’s your choice, but don’t complain if you get left in the lurch
one day.

On 19/02/2022 11:21, Recliner wrote:
> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>> On 19/02/2022 08:29, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>> On 18/02/2022 22:28, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>>>> On 18/02/2022 22:06, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Graham Harrison <edward.harrisom.one@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 21:16:53 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying
>>>>>>>>> Scotsman are
>>>>>>>>> shown in RTT?  I notice that this one hasn't appeared (yet), and I
>>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual finalised
>>>>>>>>> timings. The
>>>>>>>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022 " rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail and the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> British
>>>>>>>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I just received a message to say it's been cancelled.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ah, yes, you're right, thanks for the warning. I've not yet received an
>>>>>>> email to that effect, but it's on the website:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Found the email:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cotswold Venturer - Urgent Update - Tour Cancelled
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We have just been informed that despite the best efforts of the Network
>>>>>> Rail Charter Division in monitoring the situation throughout the day and
>>>>>> looking at alternative routing in case the original route was not
>>>>>> possible
>>>>>> for our train, the Regional Network Rail Route Director has this evening
>>>>>> made the decision to cancel our Cotswold Venturer train tomorrow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We are very sorry for the late notice of this cancellation, which is
>>>>>> outside of our control, and we apologise for any disappointment it may
>>>>>> cause, everyone involved had worked together in the hope that the train
>>>>>> would be able to take place tomorrow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We are now working with our operating company, West Coast Railways,
>>>>>> Network
>>>>>> Rail and the caretakers of Flying Scotsman to try and redate the tour in
>>>>>> March and will be in touch with you as soon as we have a firm date
>>>>>> for this
>>>>>> rescheduling. Should the new date not be convenient for you, then you
>>>>>> will
>>>>>> be entitled to transfer your funds to a different tour or to receive
>>>>>> a full
>>>>>> refund of monies paid to us.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your patience at this time will be appreciated whilst we make the
>>>>>> necessary
>>>>>> arrangements, we will be in touch with you again in the coming days to
>>>>>> advise further.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Once again our sincere apologies for any inconvenience.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> —————
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wonder how much this will cost the FS operation (NRM?), WCR, RTC and
>>>>>> Gravy Train (caterers), and wonder if NR covers some or all of the
>>>>>> costs?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't have any wasted travel or hotel costs, but I'm sure many of the
>>>>>> other would-be passengers will have.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I suspect some will already be in their hotel without access to their
>>>>> email and perhaps unaware.  I hope there are not too many
>>>>> disappointments at the departure points tomorrow.
>>>>
>>>> The sort of people who can afford these trips won't have access to email
>>>> from their hotels? Seriously?
>>>>
>>> Yes.
>>>
>>
>> I went on a day trip with Statesman recently. The demographic was very much
>> in the retired and long retired area. They all had smartphones. The idea
>> that the elderly can’t handle smartphones is fast becoming obsolete.
>>
>
> I still come across older folks on tours with neither home email nor
> smartphones, and occasionally not even a basic mobile phone at all. Some
> use(d) email at work, but never felt the need for it at home. They're
> definitely a small, shrinking minority, but they do still exist. So it's
> quite possible that a few such people were booked on this trip.
>

Could be equally likely that some had already retired to bed before the
cancellation was announced.

On 19/02/2022 13:07, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
> On 19/02/2022 12:54, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> On 19/02/2022 12:27, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>> On 19/02/2022 11:54, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>> On 19/02/2022 11:35, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>>>> On 19/02/2022 11:21, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 19/02/2022 08:29, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 18/02/2022 22:28, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 18/02/2022 22:06, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Graham Harrison <edward.harrisom.one@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 21:16:53 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering if mainline rail charters hauled by Flying
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Scotsman are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shown in RTT?  I notice that this one hasn't appeared
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (yet), and I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that the timings shown online differ from the actual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finalised
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> timings. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> light engine moves to and from Southall are shown.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022 " rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The letter accompanying the ticket says:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please note due to trespassing issues we have been asked by Network Rail and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> British
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Transport Police to not publicise the final timings for the train so we would appreciate it if you could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> treat the timings given overleaf as strictly confidential.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I just received a message to say it's been cancelled.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ah, yes, you're right, thanks for the warning. I've not yet
>>>>>>>>>>>> received an
>>>>>>>>>>>> email to that effect, but it's on the website:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-cotswold-venturer-2022
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Found the email:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Cotswold Venturer - Urgent Update - Tour Cancelled
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> We have just been informed that despite the best efforts of
>>>>>>>>>>> the Network
>>>>>>>>>>> Rail Charter Division in monitoring the situation throughout
>>>>>>>>>>> the day and
>>>>>>>>>>> looking at alternative routing in case the original route was
>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>> possible
>>>>>>>>>>> for our train, the Regional Network Rail Route Director has
>>>>>>>>>>> this evening
>>>>>>>>>>> made the decision to cancel our Cotswold Venturer train
>>>>>>>>>>> tomorrow.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> We are very sorry for the late notice of this cancellation,
>>>>>>>>>>> which is
>>>>>>>>>>> outside of our control, and we apologise for any
>>>>>>>>>>> disappointment it may
>>>>>>>>>>> cause, everyone involved had worked together in the hope that
>>>>>>>>>>> the train
>>>>>>>>>>> would be able to take place tomorrow.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> We are now working with our operating company, West Coast
>>>>>>>>>>> Railways,
>>>>>>>>>>> Network
>>>>>>>>>>> Rail and the caretakers of Flying Scotsman to try and redate
>>>>>>>>>>> the tour in
>>>>>>>>>>> March and will be in touch with you as soon as we have a firm
>>>>>>>>>>> date
>>>>>>>>>>> for this
>>>>>>>>>>> rescheduling. Should the new date not be convenient for you,
>>>>>>>>>>> then you
>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>> be entitled to transfer your funds to a different tour or to
>>>>>>>>>>> receive
>>>>>>>>>>> a full
>>>>>>>>>>> refund of monies paid to us.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Your patience at this time will be appreciated whilst we make
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> necessary
>>>>>>>>>>> arrangements, we will be in touch with you again in the
>>>>>>>>>>> coming days to
>>>>>>>>>>> advise further.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Once again our sincere apologies for any inconvenience.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> —————
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder how much this will cost the FS operation (NRM?),
>>>>>>>>>>> WCR, RTC and
>>>>>>>>>>> Gravy Train (caterers), and wonder if NR covers some or all
>>>>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>>>>> costs?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I don't have any wasted travel or hotel costs, but I'm sure
>>>>>>>>>>> many of the
>>>>>>>>>>> other would-be passengers will have.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I suspect some will already be in their hotel without access
>>>>>>>>>> to their
>>>>>>>>>> email and perhaps unaware.  I hope there are not too many
>>>>>>>>>> disappointments at the departure points tomorrow.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The sort of people who can afford these trips won't have access
>>>>>>>>> to email
>>>>>>>>> from their hotels? Seriously?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I went on a day trip with Statesman recently. The demographic was
>>>>>>> very much
>>>>>>> in the retired and long retired area. They all had smartphones.
>>>>>>> The idea
>>>>>>> that the elderly can’t handle smartphones is fast becoming obsolete.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I still come across older folks on tours with neither home email nor
>>>>>> smartphones, and occasionally not even a basic mobile phone at
>>>>>> all. Some
>>>>>> use(d) email at work, but never felt the need for it at home. They're
>>>>>> definitely a small, shrinking minority, but they do still exist.
>>>>>> So it's
>>>>>> quite possible that a few such people were booked on this trip.
>>>>>>
>>>>> I've got a couple of friends with smart phones but they only use
>>>>> them to make or receive calls.  Don't leave them voice mail as they
>>>>> have no idea what to do with it.
>>>>>
>>>>> The only email I have on my phone is my personal address only known
>>>>> to relatives and close friends.  I certainly wouldn't trust it to
>>>>> commercial organisations.
>>>>
>>>> What's wrong with having a sacrificial gmail address for companies
>>>> to use? Not difficult to have a second or third address on your
>>>> phone and abandon it if/when it gets abused.
>>>>
>>> Too much hassle.  It's a painful process setting up google email
>>> addresses.
>>>
>>> I like to provide each organisation I have a dealing with a unique
>>> email address.
>>
>> And that's not a hassle to set up?
>
> No effort to set up at all.
>
> I have my own domain and the email is set up so "everything else" is
> forwarded to one particular email address.  I just decide to use
> idiots@....... or something on the web form and the rest is done for me.
>
>

<martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
> On 19/02/2022 12:37, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <suqnml$b22$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:27:01 on Sat, 19 Feb
>> 2022, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>>
>>>>  What's wrong with having a sacrificial gmail address for companies
>>>> to  use? Not difficult to have a second or third address on your
>>>> phone and  abandon it if/when it gets abused.
>>>>
>>> Too much hassle.  It's a painful process setting up google email
>>> addresses.
>>>
>>> I like to provide each organisation I have a dealing with a unique
>>> email address.
>>
>> And how often has that identified a data breach?
>
> More than you might imagine. The usual procedure is that when the
> company decides that I'm unlikely to purchase from them again they sell
> my address on.
>

You must be very unlucky. I’ve a work email address that’s been public for
25 years and a private one that sits in full view on a website. Neither
attract much in the way of unwanted spam. Most of the spam is correctly
identified and dumped by the providers of the email services.