On 10/07/2023 7:59 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 10/07/2023 7:38 am, Noddy wrote:

>>> **well, you can't help morons.
>>
>> That certainly seems to be the case judging by the number of Tesla's
>> being sold at the moment :)
>>
>>
>
> **Have you driven one?

No. Have you?

> I haven't, but I've spoken to a couple of owners. They couldn't be
> happier. One is on his second Tesla. Mainly because the resale was so
> good and the newer model was better quality, quicker and had a bigger
> battery.

That's nice, but it's a bit like saying that Broccoli is his favourite
food. *He* likes it, but just because he does doesn't mean everyone does.

My view on Tesla's is that if people want to buy them then that's their
business. Unlike some overly inflated egos around here I couldn't give a
crap about what other people spend *their* money on. I wouldn't ever buy
one for few reasons. Firstly, I think they're ugly and their interiors
are positively vomit inducing. Secondly they have build quality that
makes even the cheapest of Chinese cars look high end, and lastly
because I would rather eat my own ear wax than have *anything* to do
with Elon Musk.

> So, it seems that with my very small sample size, that owners are happy
> with their purchase.

They made 20 million Volkswagen Beetles over the years, and it would
probably be fair to say that most people who bought one were happy with
them, too. Does that mean they were a good car? Not by a long shot :)
> Which is more than I can say about almost every Mercedes Benz owner
I've met.
> Poor resale, poor reliability and just way over-priced.

I've never been a big Mercedes Benz car fan. And not for any reason
other than thinking that they're a bit like Toyota in that they're
massively over rated. Their heavy trucks are world class and would be in
the top three best brands of all time along with Scania and Volvo, but
their cars are run of the mill in my opinion.

However, in having said that I would argue that they are *far* from
being the most unreliable car out there or the most over priced. If you
want to see *true* unreliability in motion then buy an Alfa. Any Alfa.
Italian cars in general are the epitome of mechanical unreliability but
Alfa in particular have spent decades honing their ability to make
unreliable cars and have turned it into a *very* fine art.

If you want over-priced, then Audi makes Mercedes Benz look pale by
comparison, as does Porsche, Maserati, Lamborghini, Ferrari, Maybach,
Rolls Royce, McClaren and Tesla. They *all* make massively over priced
cars. If they're a bit too exotic for your tastes, then perhaps you
could look at Lexus. The "poor man's luxury car" which are little more
than a regular Toyota with a shit-tonne of over priced bling thrown at them.
> And don't get me started on the dickhead sales people.

If you *really* want to see dickhead sales people in action then visit
any Subaru dealership, as they're the world champions and have been for
years.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 10/07/2023 8:56 am, alvey wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Jul 2023 07:59:54 +1000, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>
>
>>
>> So, it seems that with my very small sample size, that owners are happy
>> with their purchase. Which is more than I can say about almost every
>> Mercedes Benz owner I've met.
>
> And what sample size is that?

**Five.

>
>> Poor resale, poor reliability and just way
>> over-priced.
>
> I've had the A35 for three years now and it's had one electrical problem
> (which put it on the back of the truck), and that's it. The only gripes I
> have about it are, 1) The proprietry satnav is appalling and, 2) the Voice
> Command system is a match with the SatNav and 3, the 'Comfort' drive mode
> is terrible. Some gear changes make me think that somethings' run into the
> back of the thing. Luckily this mode is very rarely employed.

**I found that the A Class Mercs were incredibly cramped. That was 5
years ago, so I expect things have changed. There is no denying the
fabulous performance of the AMG models though.

I have three mates who own/d Mercs. All had problems within and outside
warranty. Some problems were either very serious, or ongoing and were
insoluable.

>
> And I'd dispute it was over-priced. Iirc, it was roughly the same price as
> its two main rivals, the Audi S3 & the excessively chromed Kia Stinger
> (3.3ltr). And a very quick look at Redbook shows that 'my' A35 has a
> higher resale value than those two. Admittedly, there were sod all models
> in there, but that fact is consistent with the sample sizes which are
> regularly used in here. ie zero to one...

**Five years ago, when I was in the market, the equivalent Merc to my
Levorg was 25 Grand dearer. And, for the record, nothing has gone wrong
with my Suby. Except for my stupidity in leaving map lights on.

>
> My model is a pretty good conveyance. It looks ok, goes and handles well
> (especially since the Michelins went on), and has a delicious
> crackle'n'pop on the exhaust when you're haveing a bit of fun. It's pretty
> good, but I'm not considering another Merk as my next chariot.
>
>> And don't get me started on the dickhead sales people.
>
> I don't think they're dickheads. Just oily and devious.

**Not as bad as the VW arseholes. Funnily enough, the best experience I
had, when looking for a new car, was at the Holden dealership. Helpful
beyond reason. I still wish I'd bought the V8 Commodore wagon (with all
the bells and whistles) instead of the Levorg. I betcha it's holding
it's value very nicely. Nice exhaust note too.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

On 10/07/2023 9:28 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:

> **Not as bad as the VW arseholes. Funnily enough, the best experience I
> had, when looking for a new car, was at the Holden dealership. Helpful
> beyond reason. I still wish I'd bought the V8 Commodore wagon (with all
> the bells and whistles) instead of the Levorg. I betcha it's holding
> it's value very nicely. Nice exhaust note too.

Any capital gains you may have seen would have *easily* been absorbed in
the costs of keeping such an unreliable heap of shit running :)

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 10/7/2023 5:21 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 9/07/2023 10:43 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 9/7/2023 7:00 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> On 9/07/2023 4:20 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>>> On 9/07/2023 12:55 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>> On 9/07/2023 9:35 am, Noddy wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/07/2023 8:36 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>> On 30/06/2023 10:36 am, Noddy wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't think there are too many good looking cars of any kind
>>>>>>>> these days, and it's like there's a competition amongst
>>>>>>>> manufacturers to see who can make the ugliest thing around and
>>>>>>>> still have people want to own it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mercedes Benz and Lexus are clear leaders in this field :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> **I love bashing Mercs. Over-priced and unreliable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Everyone makes products with issues these days. Everyone.
>>>>>> Including Toyota. There has never been a manufacturer who has a
>>>>>> perfect record for making fault free cars in the history of
>>>>>> vehicle manufacturing, and as much as I'm not a Benz fan there
>>>>>> would be plenty I would direct my angst towards before I targeted
>>>>>> them as a bad example.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Like Alfa for example...
>>>>>>   > However, this:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.mercedes-benz.com.au/passengercars/models/cabriolet-roadster/sl/overview.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Looks great, EXCEPT for that hideous grille. WTF are they
>>>>>>> thinking? When the latest generation of SL cars were released (10
>>>>>>> - 12 years ago?), I thought they looked fabulous. OK, I've been
>>>>>>> looking at the picture for a few minutes now. Fuck me, they look
>>>>>>> shithouse.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Looks are incredibly subjective. Personally I don't think the
>>>>>> grille is any more or less attractive than the rest of the car.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now, for Lexus:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.lexus.com.au/models/lc/overview
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One of my neighbours has that car. Same colour too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They have my sympathies :)
>>>>>>   > I reckon it looks pretty damned nice. Grille and all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think it looks like a Nissan Skyline with a really bad body kit.
>>>>>> Not that I want either, but if I had to choose one I'd have the
>>>>>> Skyline.
>>>>>>   > Mind you: The grilles on their bigger cars looks like shit.
>>>>>> Same deal with 4WD BMWs. And don't get me
>>>>>>> started on the plastic shit on the front of the BMW electric
>>>>>>> cars. YIKES!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They're all doing whatever they think they need to in order to
>>>>>> pull a customer. None of them appeal to me, as I think modern cars
>>>>>> have no style or character whatsoever.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> By comparison, this looks drop-dead gorgeous:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.tesla.com/en_au/models
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Um, to you perhaps :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At least Tesla don't find the need to put a fake cooling intake
>>>>>>> for a non-existent radiator on their cars. BMW need to dump
>>>>>>> theirs. And so does Merc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, they may not do, but then they have their own "wank"
>>>>>> association. Namely Elon Musk. Some people think he's a God. I
>>>>>> think he's a fucking idiot and wouldn't ever own anything that he
>>>>>> was associated with.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For much the same reason I was never interested in having an
>>>>>> Iphone thanks to Steve Jobs :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> **Yeah, well, I've been telling anyone who will listen, since the
>>>>> mid-1980s, that Apple is evil. They still are. My $500.00 Oppo does
>>>>> everything a $1,200.00 iPhone can.
>>>>>
>>>> As does my $390 Pixel 6a.
>>>
>>> **I just checked. My 64mp main camera is a beaut. The others (there's
>>> 5 in total) ain't too shabby either. Bloody huge files though.
>>>
>> I know several people who have owned Oppo phones, most thought they
>> are OK whilst one hated his so much he smashed to pieces when he
>> couldn't get it to do what he wanted:-)
>>
>>
>
> **well, you can't help morons.
>

He's the sort of person that doesn't like technology and there are
plenty of people his age (74) that are like him, he struggles with
"tech" but give him the plans to a house and he will build it for you
perfectly so he's far from being a moron.
Phone makers don't consider this type of person when they make phones,
they seem to assume that everyone is a tech junkie.
In a way its for a similar reason many people stick with the brand of
phone they have had for a long time, they simply don't like change.

--
Daryl

On 10/7/2023 9:24 am, Noddy wrote:
> On 10/07/2023 7:59 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 10/07/2023 7:38 am, Noddy wrote:
>
>>>> **well, you can't help morons.
>>>
>>> That certainly seems to be the case judging by the number of Tesla's
>>> being sold at the moment :)
>>>
>>>
>>
>> **Have you driven one?
>
> No. Have you?
>
>> I haven't, but I've spoken to a couple of owners. They couldn't be
>> happier. One is on his second Tesla. Mainly because the resale was so
>> good and the newer model was better quality, quicker and had a bigger
>> battery.
>
> That's nice, but it's a bit like saying that Broccoli is his favourite
> food. *He* likes it, but just because he does doesn't mean everyone does.
>
> My view on Tesla's is that if people want to buy them then that's their
> business. Unlike some overly inflated egos around here I couldn't give a
> crap about what other people spend *their* money on. I wouldn't ever buy
> one for few reasons. Firstly, I think they're ugly and their interiors
> are positively vomit inducing. Secondly they have build quality that
> makes even the cheapest of Chinese cars look high end, and lastly
> because I would rather eat my own ear wax than have *anything* to do
> with Elon Musk.
>
>> So, it seems that with my very small sample size, that owners are
>> happy with their purchase.
>
> They made 20 million Volkswagen Beetles over the years, and it would
> probably be fair to say that most people who bought one were happy with
> them, too. Does that mean they were a good car? Not by a long shot :)
>  > Which is more than I can say about almost every Mercedes Benz owner
> I've met.
>> Poor resale, poor reliability and just way over-priced.
>
> I've never been a big Mercedes Benz car fan. And not for any reason
> other than thinking that they're a bit like Toyota in that they're
> massively over rated. Their heavy trucks are world class and would be in
> the top three best brands of all time along with Scania and Volvo, but
> their cars are run of the mill in my opinion.
>
> However, in having said that I would argue that they are *far* from
> being the most unreliable car out there or the most over priced. If you
> want to see *true* unreliability in motion then buy an Alfa. Any Alfa.
> Italian cars in general are the epitome of mechanical unreliability but
> Alfa in particular have spent decades honing their ability to make
> unreliable cars and have turned it into a *very* fine art.
>
> If you want over-priced, then Audi makes Mercedes Benz look pale by
> comparison, as does Porsche, Maserati, Lamborghini, Ferrari, Maybach,
> Rolls Royce, McClaren and Tesla. They *all* make massively over priced
> cars. If they're a bit too exotic for your tastes, then perhaps you
> could look at Lexus. The "poor man's luxury car" which are little more
> than a regular Toyota with a shit-tonne of over priced bling thrown at
> them.
>  > And don't get me started on the dickhead sales people.
>
> If you *really* want to see dickhead sales people in action then visit
> any Subaru dealership, as they're the world champions and have been for
> years.
>

No question about that, not all are terrible but the one we dealt with
recently was smug arsehole.
Can't remember if I mentioned it but my wife was thinking she needed an
SUV so we went and test drove a Subaru XV mostly because she has this
thing about AWD.
We both liked the car but the arrogant sales arsehole turned us right
off it, they were asking over new price for a demo car with about
12,000km on the odo and they offered us bugger all for the Golf so we
walked out.

--
Daryl

On 10/7/2023 10:45 am, Daryl wrote:
> On 10/7/2023 5:21 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 9/07/2023 10:43 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>> On 9/7/2023 7:00 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>> On 9/07/2023 4:20 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>>>> On 9/07/2023 12:55 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/07/2023 9:35 am, Noddy wrote:
>>>>>>> On 9/07/2023 8:36 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 30/06/2023 10:36 am, Noddy wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't think there are too many good looking cars of any kind
>>>>>>>>> these days, and it's like there's a competition amongst
>>>>>>>>> manufacturers to see who can make the ugliest thing around and
>>>>>>>>> still have people want to own it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Mercedes Benz and Lexus are clear leaders in this field :)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> **I love bashing Mercs. Over-priced and unreliable.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Everyone makes products with issues these days. Everyone.
>>>>>>> Including Toyota. There has never been a manufacturer who has a
>>>>>>> perfect record for making fault free cars in the history of
>>>>>>> vehicle manufacturing, and as much as I'm not a Benz fan there
>>>>>>> would be plenty I would direct my angst towards before I targeted
>>>>>>> them as a bad example.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Like Alfa for example...
>>>>>>>   > However, this:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.mercedes-benz.com.au/passengercars/models/cabriolet-roadster/sl/overview.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Looks great, EXCEPT for that hideous grille. WTF are they
>>>>>>>> thinking? When the latest generation of SL cars were released
>>>>>>>> (10 - 12 years ago?), I thought they looked fabulous. OK, I've
>>>>>>>> been looking at the picture for a few minutes now. Fuck me, they
>>>>>>>> look shithouse.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Looks are incredibly subjective. Personally I don't think the
>>>>>>> grille is any more or less attractive than the rest of the car.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Now, for Lexus:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.lexus.com.au/models/lc/overview
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One of my neighbours has that car. Same colour too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They have my sympathies :)
>>>>>>>   > I reckon it looks pretty damned nice. Grille and all.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think it looks like a Nissan Skyline with a really bad body
>>>>>>> kit. Not that I want either, but if I had to choose one I'd have
>>>>>>> the Skyline.
>>>>>>>   > Mind you: The grilles on their bigger cars looks like shit.
>>>>>>> Same deal with 4WD BMWs. And don't get me
>>>>>>>> started on the plastic shit on the front of the BMW electric
>>>>>>>> cars. YIKES!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They're all doing whatever they think they need to in order to
>>>>>>> pull a customer. None of them appeal to me, as I think modern
>>>>>>> cars have no style or character whatsoever.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> By comparison, this looks drop-dead gorgeous:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.tesla.com/en_au/models
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Um, to you perhaps :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> At least Tesla don't find the need to put a fake cooling intake
>>>>>>>> for a non-existent radiator on their cars. BMW need to dump
>>>>>>>> theirs. And so does Merc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well, they may not do, but then they have their own "wank"
>>>>>>> association. Namely Elon Musk. Some people think he's a God. I
>>>>>>> think he's a fucking idiot and wouldn't ever own anything that he
>>>>>>> was associated with.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For much the same reason I was never interested in having an
>>>>>>> Iphone thanks to Steve Jobs :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **Yeah, well, I've been telling anyone who will listen, since the
>>>>>> mid-1980s, that Apple is evil. They still are. My $500.00 Oppo
>>>>>> does everything a $1,200.00 iPhone can.
>>>>>>
>>>>> As does my $390 Pixel 6a.
>>>>
>>>> **I just checked. My 64mp main camera is a beaut. The others
>>>> (there's 5 in total) ain't too shabby either. Bloody huge files though.
>>>>
>>> I know several people who have owned Oppo phones, most thought they
>>> are OK whilst one hated his so much he smashed to pieces when he
>>> couldn't get it to do what he wanted:-)
>>>
>>>
>>
>> **well, you can't help morons.
>>
>
> He's the sort of person that doesn't like technology and there are
> plenty of people his age (74) that are like him, he struggles with
> "tech" but give him the plans to a house and he will build it for you
> perfectly so he's far from being a moron.
> Phone makers don't consider this type of person when they make phones,
> they seem to assume that everyone is a tech junkie.
> In a way its for a similar reason many people stick with the brand of
> phone they have had for a long time, they simply don't like change.
>
Many people stick with a brand they have had for a long time because it
*fits their needs perfectly*. I consider myself to be one of those.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 10/7/2023 10:08 am, Noddy wrote:
> On 10/07/2023 9:28 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>
>> **Not as bad as the VW arseholes. Funnily enough, the best experience
>> I had, when looking for a new car, was at the Holden dealership.
>> Helpful beyond reason. I still wish I'd bought the V8 Commodore wagon
>> (with all the bells and whistles) instead of the Levorg. I betcha it's
>> holding it's value very nicely. Nice exhaust note too.
>
> Any capital gains you may have seen would have *easily* been absorbed in
> the costs of keeping such an unreliable heap of shit running :)
>
Like a Navara?

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 10/7/2023 9:28 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 10/07/2023 8:56 am, alvey wrote:
>> On Mon, 10 Jul 2023 07:59:54 +1000, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> So, it seems that with my very small sample size, that owners are happy
>>> with their purchase. Which is more than I can say about almost every
>>> Mercedes Benz owner I've met.
>>
>> And what sample size is that?
>
> **Five.
>
>>
>>> Poor resale, poor reliability and just way
>>> over-priced.
>>
>> I've had the A35 for three years now and it's had one electrical problem
>> (which put it on the back of the truck), and that's it. The only gripes I
>> have about it are, 1) The proprietry satnav is appalling and, 2) the
>> Voice
>> Command system is a match with the SatNav and 3, the 'Comfort' drive mode
>> is terrible. Some gear changes make me think that somethings' run into
>> the
>> back of the thing. Luckily this mode is very rarely employed.
>
> **I found that the A Class Mercs were incredibly cramped. That was 5
> years ago, so I expect things have changed. There is no denying the
> fabulous performance of the AMG models though.
>
> I have three mates who own/d Mercs. All had problems within and outside
> warranty. Some problems were either very serious, or ongoing and were
> insoluable.
>
>>
>> And I'd dispute it was over-priced. Iirc, it was roughly the same
>> price as
>> its two main rivals, the Audi S3 & the excessively chromed Kia Stinger
>> (3.3ltr). And a very quick look at Redbook shows that 'my' A35 has a
>> higher resale value than those two. Admittedly, there were sod all models
>> in there, but that fact is consistent with the sample sizes which are
>> regularly used in here. ie zero to one...
>
> **Five years ago, when I was in the market, the equivalent Merc to my
> Levorg was 25 Grand dearer. And, for the record, nothing has gone wrong
> with my Suby. Except for my stupidity in leaving map lights on.
>
>>
>> My model is a pretty good conveyance. It looks ok, goes and handles well
>> (especially since the Michelins went on), and has a delicious
>> crackle'n'pop on the exhaust when you're haveing a bit of fun. It's
>> pretty
>> good, but I'm not considering another Merk as my next chariot.
>>
>>> And don't get me started on the dickhead sales people.
>>
>> I don't think they're dickheads. Just oily and devious.
>
> **Not as bad as the VW arseholes.

We bought the wife's SH Golf from a VW dealer, one of the best
experiences we have ever had with any dealer, they were excellent.
They are on the other side of the city from us so we have never been
back so we haven't had any experience with their service dept but their
sales people were great.

Funnily enough, the best experience I
> had, when looking for a new car, was at the Holden dealership. Helpful
> beyond reason. I still wish I'd bought the V8 Commodore wagon (with all
> the bells and whistles) instead of the Levorg. I betcha it's holding
> it's value very nicely. Nice exhaust note too.
>

I've found that younger sales people are usually better to deal with,
possibly because they are new in the game and are trying to impress,
older ones are more cynical and often have a couldn't care less attitude.

--
Daryl

On 10/07/2023 10:54 am, Daryl wrote:
> On 10/7/2023 9:24 am, Noddy wrote:

>> If you *really* want to see dickhead sales people in action then visit
>> any Subaru dealership, as they're the world champions and have been
>> for years.
>>
>
> No question about that, not all are terrible but the one we dealt with
> recently was smug arsehole.
> Can't remember if I mentioned it but my wife was thinking she needed an
> SUV so we went and test drove a Subaru XV mostly because she has this
> thing about AWD.
> We both liked the car but the arrogant sales arsehole turned us right
> off it, they were asking over new price for a demo car with about
> 12,000km on the odo and they offered us bugger all for the Golf so we
> walked out.

Don't blame you :)

If you're still in the market go look at a Kia or Hyundai. Both have on
demand AWD which offers all the benefits of an AWD system when you need
it combined with the economy reductions of not driving all 4 wheels when
you don't.

Works well, is totally seamless and most AWD experts wouldn't be able to
tell the difference :)

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 10/07/2023 11:06 am, Daryl wrote:
> On 10/7/2023 9:28 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:

>> **Not as bad as the VW arseholes.
>
> We bought the wife's SH Golf from a VW dealer, one of the best
> experiences we have ever had with any dealer, they were excellent.
> They are on the other side of the city from us so we have never been
> back so we haven't had any experience with their service dept but their
> sales people were great.

When I bought the Ranger I did all the dealing over the phone. I played
3 dealers off against each other, namely Sunbury Ford, Western Ford, and
Westpoint Ford, and it's quite surprising how well doing that can work
for you. I didn't have any particular preference for a dealership and
was only looking for the best price, and in the end managed to get
around 3 grand off the sticker price which was way better than I was
ever expecting to do in a market where demand massively outstrips supply.

Everything was done over the phone or by email, and I never went
anywhere near a dealership until the car arrived and it was time to
collect it. Not even for a test drive :)

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On Mon, 10 Jul 2023 10:08:08 +1000, Noddy wrote:

> On 10/07/2023 9:28 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>
>> **Not as bad as the VW arseholes. Funnily enough, the best experience I
>> had, when looking for a new car, was at the Holden dealership. Helpful
>> beyond reason. I still wish I'd bought the V8 Commodore wagon (with all
>> the bells and whistles) instead of the Levorg. I betcha it's holding
>> it's value very nicely. Nice exhaust note too.
>
> Any capital gains you may have seen would have *easily* been absorbed in
> the costs of keeping such an unreliable heap of shit running :)

One wonders how you, a bogan who has never owned a half-decent car in your
miserable life, has certainly never owned a V8 Commode, has no trade
qualifications, claim/bellow that you don't read magazine reviews *and*
have lived wayyy out in the boonies for over a decade now, can be so
bellicosely opinionated on, well, just about anything.

alvey
Besides... noone here is interested in your opinions Fraudster...

Noddy <me@home.com> wrote:
> On 10/07/2023 11:06 am, Daryl wrote:
>> On 10/7/2023 9:28 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>
>>> **Not as bad as the VW arseholes.
>>
>> We bought the wife's SH Golf from a VW dealer, one of the best
>> experiences we have ever had with any dealer, they were excellent.
>> They are on the other side of the city from us so we have never been
>> back so we haven't had any experience with their service dept but their
>> sales people were great.
>
> When I bought the Ranger I did all the dealing over the phone. I played
> 3 dealers off against each other, namely Sunbury Ford, Western Ford, and
> Westpoint Ford, and it's quite surprising how well doing that can work
> for you. I didn't have any particular preference for a dealership and
> was only looking for the best price, and in the end managed to get
> around 3 grand off the sticker price which was way better than I was
> ever expecting to do in a market where demand massively outstrips supply.
>
> Everything was done over the phone or by email, and I never went
> anywhere near a dealership until the car arrived and it was time to
> collect it. Not even for a test drive :)
>

No test drive? That’s bad! It means you won’t be able to whinge about
needing a set of steps to mount and dismount the *steed*.

____
Xeno

On 10/7/2023 11:30 am, Noddy wrote:
> On 10/07/2023 11:06 am, Daryl wrote:
>> On 10/7/2023 9:28 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>
>>> **Not as bad as the VW arseholes.
>>
>> We bought the wife's SH Golf from a VW dealer, one of the best
>> experiences we have ever had with any dealer, they were excellent.
>> They are on the other side of the city from us so we have never been
>> back so we haven't had any experience with their service dept but
>> their sales people were great.
>
> When I bought the Ranger I did all the dealing over the phone. I played
> 3 dealers off against each other, namely Sunbury Ford, Western Ford, and
> Westpoint Ford, and it's quite surprising how well doing that can work
> for you. I didn't have any particular preference for a dealership and
> was only looking for the best price, and in the end managed to get
> around 3 grand off the sticker price which was way better than I was
> ever expecting to do in a market where demand massively outstrips supply.
>
> Everything was done over the phone or by email, and I never went
> anywhere near a dealership until the car arrived and it was time to
> collect it. Not even for a test drive :)
>
Sounds like that's the way to go these days and I hear that its getting
to be a common way of buying cars.

--
Daryl

On 10/7/2023 11:21 am, Noddy wrote:
> On 10/07/2023 10:54 am, Daryl wrote:
>> On 10/7/2023 9:24 am, Noddy wrote:
>
>>> If you *really* want to see dickhead sales people in action then
>>> visit any Subaru dealership, as they're the world champions and have
>>> been for years.
>>>
>>
>> No question about that, not all are terrible but the one we dealt with
>> recently was smug arsehole.
>> Can't remember if I mentioned it but my wife was thinking she needed
>> an SUV so we went and test drove a Subaru XV mostly because she has
>> this thing about AWD.
>> We both liked the car but the arrogant sales arsehole turned us right
>> off it, they were asking over new price for a demo car with about
>> 12,000km on the odo and they offered us bugger all for the Golf so we
>> walked out.
>
> Don't blame you :)
>
> If you're still in the market go look at a Kia or Hyundai. Both have on
> demand AWD which offers all the benefits of an AWD system when you need
> it combined with the economy reductions of not driving all 4 wheels when
> you don't.
>
> Works well, is totally seamless and most AWD experts wouldn't be able to
> tell the difference :)
>
>
She's changed her mind again mostly after her physio told her that an
SUV wouldn't be of any benefit, I told her the same thing but my opinion
doesn't count:-)

--
Daryl

On 10/07/2023 1:46 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 10/7/2023 11:21 am, Noddy wrote:

>> If you're still in the market go look at a Kia or Hyundai. Both have
>> on demand AWD which offers all the benefits of an AWD system when you
>> need it combined with the economy reductions of not driving all 4
>> wheels when you don't.
>>
>> Works well, is totally seamless and most AWD experts wouldn't be able
>> to tell the difference :)
>>
>>
> She's changed her mind again mostly after her physio told her that an
> SUV wouldn't be of any benefit, I told her the same thing but my opinion
> doesn't count:-)

Jeez. Where have I seen that before? :)

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 10/07/2023 1:44 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 10/7/2023 11:30 am, Noddy wrote:

>> Everything was done over the phone or by email, and I never went
>> anywhere near a dealership until the car arrived and it was time to
>> collect it. Not even for a test drive :)
>>
> Sounds like that's the way to go these days and I hear that its getting
> to be a common way of buying cars.

Phone sales are nothing new, but I suspect you're talking more about the
Tesla model, where you buy a car directly from the manufacturer and cut
out the dealership middleman.

If so then that's certainly the way things are heading. Tesla has done
it from day one. Honda has done it here. Mercedes Benz are in the throws
of doing it as we speak, and Ford's CEO in the US has been making public
statements about heading that way. To be honest I don't blame them
either. Not only do their raise their bottom line considerably by
selling every car to the end user at retail price rather than wholesale
to the dealer, but they cut out the greed and general all round
cuntedness of the dealer like those in the US recently who had been
advertising new cars and trucks at many thousands of dollars above
normal retail price in exploiting the new car shortages to their
advantage. I have no sympathy for dealerships at all, as they bring all
their troubles on themselves.

The overwhelming disadvantage as far as the consumer goes is that it
will bring about an end to "cutting a deal" and getting a new car at a
decent price. With only one retail source manufacturers will be selling
everything at full retail price with no negotiation whatsoever.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 10/7/2023 2:21 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 10/07/2023 1:44 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 10/7/2023 11:30 am, Noddy wrote:
>
>>> Everything was done over the phone or by email, and I never went
>>> anywhere near a dealership until the car arrived and it was time to
>>> collect it. Not even for a test drive :)
>>>
>> Sounds like that's the way to go these days and I hear that its
>> getting to be a common way of buying cars.
>
> Phone sales are nothing new, but I suspect you're talking more about the
> Tesla model, where you buy a car directly from the manufacturer and cut
> out the dealership middleman.
>
> If so then that's certainly the way things are heading. Tesla has done
> it from day one. Honda has done it here. Mercedes Benz are in the throws
> of doing it as we speak, and Ford's CEO in the US has been making public
> statements about heading that way. To be honest I don't blame them
> either. Not only do their raise their bottom line considerably by
> selling every car to the end user at retail price rather than wholesale
> to the dealer, but they cut out the greed and general all round
> cuntedness of the dealer like those in the US recently who had been
> advertising new cars and trucks at many thousands of dollars above
> normal retail price in exploiting the new car shortages to their
> advantage. I have no sympathy for dealerships at all, as they bring all
> their troubles on themselves.
>
> The overwhelming disadvantage as far as the consumer goes is that it
> will bring about an end to "cutting a deal" and getting a new car at a
> decent price. With only one retail source manufacturers will be selling
> everything at full retail price with no negotiation whatsoever.
>
>
>
>
That would be especially true right now when there are supply shortages
but if and when supply returns to more normal levels they may discount
if they are overstocked or they are running out a model due to a new
model arriving soon.
Seems like many car makers are heading away from the dealer sales model.

--
Daryl

On 10/7/2023 9:24 am, Noddy wrote:
> On 10/07/2023 7:59 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 10/07/2023 7:38 am, Noddy wrote:
>
>>>> **well, you can't help morons.
>>>
>>> That certainly seems to be the case judging by the number of Tesla's
>>> being sold at the moment :)
>>>
>>>
>>
>> **Have you driven one?
>
> No. Have you?

Mr *Zero Experience* speaketh! LOL
>
>> I haven't, but I've spoken to a couple of owners. They couldn't be
>> happier. One is on his second Tesla. Mainly because the resale was so
>> good and the newer model was better quality, quicker and had a bigger
>> battery.
>
> That's nice, but it's a bit like saying that Broccoli is his favourite
> food. *He* likes it, but just because he does doesn't mean everyone does.

Your metaphor sucks.
>
> My view on Tesla's is that if people want to buy them then that's their
> business. Unlike some overly inflated egos around here I couldn't give a
> crap about what other people spend *their* money on. I wouldn't ever buy
> one for few reasons. Firstly, I think they're ugly and their interiors
> are positively vomit inducing. Secondly they have build quality that
> makes even the cheapest of Chinese cars look high end, and lastly
> because I would rather eat my own ear wax than have *anything* to do
> with Elon Musk.
>
>> So, it seems that with my very small sample size, that owners are
>> happy with their purchase.
>
> They made 20 million Volkswagen Beetles over the years, and it would
> probably be fair to say that most people who bought one were happy with
> them, too. Does that mean they were a good car? Not by a long shot :)

They were cheap at a time and in an era when affordability was the
primary criteria. They did develop a bit of a reputation for reliability
as well, no doubt due to their very understressed nature. Reliability
factored highly with the Beetle. Of course, that only came with good
maintenance and one of the *critical* items of maintenance on the air
cooled Beetle was tappet clearance setting. They needed setting every
10,000 km, stretch that and you end up with valve heads through the
piston. Hmmm, I seem to recall, you have *experience* in that area of
endeavour though for want of clearance in other areas - like piston to
valve. End result is the same, overheated valve head, separation at the
valve flute base, and a blown engine. VW Beetle engines were piss easy
to do the tappets on, DOHC engines, not so much. Ergo, the norm is to
*increase* the margins on the DOHC, not reduce it.

>  > Which is more than I can say about almost every Mercedes Benz owner
> I've met.
>> Poor resale, poor reliability and just way over-priced.
>
> I've never been a big Mercedes Benz car fan. And not for any reason
> other than thinking that they're a bit like Toyota in that they're
> massively over rated. Their heavy trucks are world class and would be in
> the top three best brands of all time along with Scania and Volvo, but
> their cars are run of the mill in my opinion.
>
> However, in having said that I would argue that they are *far* from
> being the most unreliable car out there or the most over priced. If you
> want to see *true* unreliability in motion then buy an Alfa. Any Alfa.
> Italian cars in general are the epitome of mechanical unreliability but
> Alfa in particular have spent decades honing their ability to make
> unreliable cars and have turned it into a *very* fine art.
>
> If you want over-priced, then Audi makes Mercedes Benz look pale by
> comparison, as does Porsche, Maserati, Lamborghini, Ferrari, Maybach,
> Rolls Royce, McClaren and Tesla. They *all* make massively over priced
> cars. If they're a bit too exotic for your tastes, then perhaps you
> could look at Lexus. The "poor man's luxury car" which are little more
> than a regular Toyota with a shit-tonne of over priced bling thrown at
> them.
>  > And don't get me started on the dickhead sales people.
>
> If you *really* want to see dickhead sales people in action then visit
> any Subaru dealership, as they're the world champions and have been for
> years.
>
Ahem, would that not vary depending on which dealership for whichever
marque you visit? You can get a bad dealership *anywhere*.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 10/07/2023 2:21 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 10/07/2023 1:44 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 10/7/2023 11:30 am, Noddy wrote:
>
>>> Everything was done over the phone or by email, and I never went
>>> anywhere near a dealership until the car arrived and it was time to
>>> collect it. Not even for a test drive :)
>>>
>> Sounds like that's the way to go these days and I hear that its
>> getting to be a common way of buying cars.
>
> Phone sales are nothing new, but I suspect you're talking more about the
> Tesla model, where you buy a car directly from the manufacturer and cut
> out the dealership middleman.
>
> If so then that's certainly the way things are heading. Tesla has done
> it from day one. Honda has done it here. Mercedes Benz are in the throws
> of doing it as we speak, and Ford's CEO in the US has been making public
> statements about heading that way. To be honest I don't blame them
> either. Not only do their raise their bottom line considerably by
> selling every car to the end user at retail price rather than wholesale
> to the dealer, but they cut out the greed and general all round
> cuntedness of the dealer like those in the US recently who had been
> advertising new cars and trucks at many thousands of dollars above
> normal retail price in exploiting the new car shortages to their
> advantage. I have no sympathy for dealerships at all, as they bring all
> their troubles on themselves.

US dealers, at least when I lived there, usually had a huge stock like
over a hundred cars. The idea being to get the punters into a new car in
one visit, no going round to try and get a better deal. I believe that
the stock was largely financed by the manufacturers.

> The overwhelming disadvantage as far as the consumer goes is that it
> will bring about an end to "cutting a deal" and getting a new car at a
> decent price. With only one retail source manufacturers will be selling
> everything at full retail price with no negotiation whatsoever.

Back in the 90s and 00s, GM in the US had a brand called Saturn run as a
separate company. They ran "No haggle" dealerships. It was quite popular
although the cars weren't (mainly known for having plastic panels). The
reckoning was that although some people negotiate hard, most don't, and
are happier knowing that nobody got a better deal than they did.

On 10/07/2023 7:32 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
> On 10/07/2023 2:21 pm, Noddy wrote:

>> If so then that's certainly the way things are heading. Tesla has done
>> it from day one. Honda has done it here. Mercedes Benz are in the
>> throws of doing it as we speak, and Ford's CEO in the US has been
>> making public statements about heading that way. To be honest I don't
>> blame them either. Not only do their raise their bottom line
>> considerably by selling every car to the end user at retail price
>> rather than wholesale to the dealer, but they cut out the greed and
>> general all round cuntedness of the dealer like those in the US
>> recently who had been advertising new cars and trucks at many
>> thousands of dollars above normal retail price in exploiting the new
>> car shortages to their advantage. I have no sympathy for dealerships
>> at all, as they bring all their troubles on themselves.
>
> US dealers, at least when I lived there, usually had a huge stock like
> over a hundred cars. The idea being to get the punters into a new car in
> one visit, no going round to try and get a better deal. I believe that
> the stock was largely financed by the manufacturers.

I don't know what it's like these days, but years ago it used to be
policy in the US that dealers had to pay for cars as soon as they took
delivery, and old Henry Ford used to use that policy to his advantage.
Whenever he wanted to build a new plant or start tooling for a new model
or engage in some major program that required millions of dollars of
investment he would simply run off a heap of extra cars and ship them to
dealers who would be required to pay for them immediately, thereby using
his dealership network as a source of capital that allowed him to avoid
banks and interest payments.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 10/07/2023 8:35 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 10/07/2023 7:32 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>> On 10/07/2023 2:21 pm, Noddy wrote:
>
>>> If so then that's certainly the way things are heading. Tesla has
>>> done it from day one. Honda has done it here. Mercedes Benz are in
>>> the throws of doing it as we speak, and Ford's CEO in the US has been
>>> making public statements about heading that way. To be honest I don't
>>> blame them either. Not only do their raise their bottom line
>>> considerably by selling every car to the end user at retail price
>>> rather than wholesale to the dealer, but they cut out the greed and
>>> general all round cuntedness of the dealer like those in the US
>>> recently who had been advertising new cars and trucks at many
>>> thousands of dollars above normal retail price in exploiting the new
>>> car shortages to their advantage. I have no sympathy for dealerships
>>> at all, as they bring all their troubles on themselves.
>>
>> US dealers, at least when I lived there, usually had a huge stock like
>> over a hundred cars. The idea being to get the punters into a new car
>> in one visit, no going round to try and get a better deal. I believe
>> that the stock was largely financed by the manufacturers.
>
> I don't know what it's like these days, but years ago it used to be
> policy in the US that dealers had to pay for cars as soon as they took
> delivery, and old Henry Ford used to use that policy to his advantage.
> Whenever he wanted to build a new plant or start tooling for a new model
> or engage in some major program that required millions of dollars of
> investment he would simply run off a heap of extra cars and ship them to
> dealers who would be required to pay for them immediately, thereby using
> his dealership network as a source of capital that allowed him to avoid
> banks and interest payments.
>
>
>
Times change.

On 9/07/2023 10:56 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 9/7/2023 7:13 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 9/07/2023 5:53 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>> On 9/07/2023 5:20 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>> On 9/07/2023 4:20 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> **Yeah, well, I've been telling anyone who will listen, since the
>>>>>> mid-1980s, that Apple is evil. They still are. My $500.00 Oppo
>>>>>> does everything a $1,200.00 iPhone can.
>>>>>>
>>>>> As does my $390 Pixel 6a.
>>>>
>>>> **Damn!
>>>
>>> I don't really give a crap about the cost. My current phone is a
>>> Galaxy S21 Ultra which at the time I bought it was just as expensive,
>>> if not more, as any Iphone then on the market.
>>>
>>> My dislike for Apple was about Steve Jobs and everything he stood
>>> for, and the fact that the cunt of a thing is dead doesn't change my
>>> view and make me suddenly want to spend money with a company that he
>>> had anything to do with.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> **Smart move. I've been a PC (IBM compatible) guy since the 1980s. In
>> fact, a mate asked me to suggest 'the ultimate PC', back in 2010.
>> Gigabyte MB, Intel i5 (first gen) CPU, crap-loads of RAM, etc.
>> Sometime around 2013-4 he decided to 'upgrade' to an Apple Mac thing.
>> Looked sexy. Did some fancy video stuff, but when it came to doing day
>> to day stuff, it was no faster than his old PC. He gave me his old i5
>> machine.
>>
>> When his Mac went down, the bill was so horrendous, he bought a new
>> machine. The video sub-system had failed. $2,200.00. The same fault in
>> his old PC would have cost around $200.00 to fix.
>>
>> Then his new Mac failed. Yep, you guessed it - Another new iMac.
>>
>> The new one bit the dust too. Another new iMac.
>
> Many schools in Vic used mostly Macs, considerably more expensive but
> according to the people whose job it was to look after them they were
> bought mostly because they were considerably more reliable.
> My nephews wife is a very highly paid graphic designer, apparently in
> that industry they exclusively use Macs.
> Make of that what you will.
> These days they have mostly gotten rid of desktop computers and the
> students almost all have iPads
>
>>
>> Here's the kicker: I still wheel out his old PC now and again (I
>> retired it in late 2018, for a new HP laptop (which still works a
>> treat, though it needs a battery), when I need some of it's facilities.
>
> A couple of days ago I decided to fire up my old Sony laptop that has
> car tuning software installed, it booted up properly but when it
> restarted after an update it locked up and I couldn't do anything with it.
> Thought that it was junk but I removed the battery, let it sit for a
> while and when I tried it again it booted up properly:-)
>>
>> You can stick your Apple shit where the Sun don't shine. Yeah and Jobs
>> was just a con-man sales-droid, who was able to work out what people
>> wanted to buy, before they knew it. In my business, the late Amar Bose
>> was just such a con-man. 'No highs, no lows, it must be Bose'.
>>
>
> And now we have Musk selling junk, there are con men everywhere:-)
>

**Now that is an idiotic thing to say. Tesla cars are not only
profitable, but they offer decent value for money. YOU may imagine that
there is a future for ICE cars, but the writing is on the wall. ICE cars
will only exist in niche markets within a few years. When Toyota, VW and
the others embrace EVs fully, Tesla may, or may not survive. Comparing
Tesla to Apple is dumb. Tesla was, in every sense, a game-changer for
cars. Apple made some modestly innovative products (the original iPhone
was certainly innovative), but mostly Apple is about bling. And money.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

On 10/07/2023 8:08 am, Noddy wrote:
> On 10/07/2023 9:28 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>
>> **Not as bad as the VW arseholes. Funnily enough, the best experience
>> I had, when looking for a new car, was at the Holden dealership.
>> Helpful beyond reason. I still wish I'd bought the V8 Commodore wagon
>> (with all the bells and whistles) instead of the Levorg. I betcha it's
>> holding it's value very nicely. Nice exhaust note too.
>
> Any capital gains you may have seen would have *easily* been absorbed in
> the costs of keeping such an unreliable heap of shit running :)
>

Trevor would and does take his cars to a real qualified and experienced
mechanic for regular servicing, not some clueless shonk like you - so
his would not only be very reliable but Trev would see the value go up.

On 11/07/2023 10:01 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 9/07/2023 10:56 pm, Daryl wrote:

>> And now we have Musk selling junk, there are con men everywhere:-)
>>
>
> **Now that is an idiotic thing to say. Tesla cars are not only
> profitable, but they offer decent value for money.

Really?

The cheapest car in Tesla's line up is the "3", which is around 65 grand
on the road for the bare bones base model, and 75 grand for the "long
range" if you want a car to really do anything.

What part of that is "decent value for money"?
> YOU may imagine that there is a future for ICE cars, but the writing
is on the wall.

Not even close :)

Manufacturers are currently selling ICE powered vehicles hand over fist,
and don't even *look* like winding down ICE production in favour of
EV's. In fact most who announced a switch to full EV production have
done an about face, which was totally expected. The "switching to
electric production" announcements were nothing other than political
cashing in :)
> ICE cars will only exist in niche markets within a few years.

So you keep saying Trev, and the interesting thing here is that you
continually make these comments as if they're verifiable fact when the
reality is that there is *nothing* to support them other than your
*opinion*.

That's all it is, buddy. Your *opinion*. And as much as you're entitled
to have it, it doesn't magically become reality just because you do.
> When Toyota, VW and the others embrace EVs fully, Tesla may, or may
not survive.

One can only hope that whatever happens it will result in Elon Musk
disappearing up his own arsehole.
> Comparing Tesla to Apple is dumb. Tesla was, in every sense, a
game-changer for
> cars. Apple made some modestly innovative products (the original iPhone
> was certainly innovative), but mostly Apple is about bling. And money.

That's what they're about *now*, but in the 1970's Apple revolutionised
the PC world. Much like Tesla has with electric cars today.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 11/7/2023 10:01 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 9/07/2023 10:56 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 9/7/2023 7:13 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> On 9/07/2023 5:53 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>> On 9/07/2023 5:20 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>> On 9/07/2023 4:20 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>> **Yeah, well, I've been telling anyone who will listen, since the
>>>>>>> mid-1980s, that Apple is evil. They still are. My $500.00 Oppo
>>>>>>> does everything a $1,200.00 iPhone can.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> As does my $390 Pixel 6a.
>>>>>
>>>>> **Damn!
>>>>
>>>> I don't really give a crap about the cost. My current phone is a
>>>> Galaxy S21 Ultra which at the time I bought it was just as
>>>> expensive, if not more, as any Iphone then on the market.
>>>>
>>>> My dislike for Apple was about Steve Jobs and everything he stood
>>>> for, and the fact that the cunt of a thing is dead doesn't change my
>>>> view and make me suddenly want to spend money with a company that he
>>>> had anything to do with.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> **Smart move. I've been a PC (IBM compatible) guy since the 1980s. In
>>> fact, a mate asked me to suggest 'the ultimate PC', back in 2010.
>>> Gigabyte MB, Intel i5 (first gen) CPU, crap-loads of RAM, etc.
>>> Sometime around 2013-4 he decided to 'upgrade' to an Apple Mac thing.
>>> Looked sexy. Did some fancy video stuff, but when it came to doing
>>> day to day stuff, it was no faster than his old PC. He gave me his
>>> old i5 machine.
>>>
>>> When his Mac went down, the bill was so horrendous, he bought a new
>>> machine. The video sub-system had failed. $2,200.00. The same fault
>>> in his old PC would have cost around $200.00 to fix.
>>>
>>> Then his new Mac failed. Yep, you guessed it - Another new iMac.
>>>
>>> The new one bit the dust too. Another new iMac.
>>
>> Many schools in Vic used mostly Macs, considerably more expensive but
>> according to the people whose job it was to look after them they were
>> bought mostly because they were considerably more reliable.
>> My nephews wife is a very highly paid graphic designer, apparently in
>> that industry they exclusively use Macs.
>> Make of that what you will.
>> These days they have mostly gotten rid of desktop computers and the
>> students almost all have iPads
>>
>>>
>>> Here's the kicker: I still wheel out his old PC now and again (I
>>> retired it in late 2018, for a new HP laptop (which still works a
>>> treat, though it needs a battery), when I need some of it's facilities.
>>
>> A couple of days ago I decided to fire up my old Sony laptop that has
>> car tuning software installed, it booted up properly but when it
>> restarted after an update it locked up and I couldn't do anything with
>> it.
>> Thought that it was junk but I removed the battery, let it sit for a
>> while and when I tried it again it booted up properly:-)
>>>
>>> You can stick your Apple shit where the Sun don't shine. Yeah and
>>> Jobs was just a con-man sales-droid, who was able to work out what
>>> people wanted to buy, before they knew it. In my business, the late
>>> Amar Bose was just such a con-man. 'No highs, no lows, it must be Bose'.
>>>
>>
>> And now we have Musk selling junk, there are con men everywhere:-)
>>
>
> **Now that is an idiotic thing to say. Tesla cars are not only
> profitable, but they offer decent value for money.

I did put a smiley at the end of my post but now you are being idiotic,
nothing made by Tesla is "decent value for money".

YOU may imagine that
> there is a future for ICE cars, but the writing is on the wall. ICE cars
> will only exist in niche markets within a few years. When Toyota, VW and
> the others embrace EVs fully, Tesla may, or may not survive.

Its looking more and more that battery EV's have just been a fad and
other technologies such as fuel cell or ICE running on hydrogen will
replace them in the not too distant future.
The biggest car maker in the world Toyota have spent a lot of money
developing other low emission car technologies and there is little doubt
that they would know a lot more about the subject that us mere mortals.

Comparing
> Tesla to Apple is dumb. Tesla was, in every sense, a game-changer for
> cars.

Nonsense, Tesla's main claim to fame is excellent marketing, there is
nothing special about their cars, the main point of difference between
Tesla and other EV's is their charging network which by all accounts is
far superior to any other.

--
Daryl