On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 05:31:26 -0700 (PDT), Stephen Packer
<stephen.packer@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, 13 September 2021 at 10:14:25 UTC+1, siwilson wrote:
>> On 12/09/2021 18:25, Stephen Packer wrote:
>> > Fell off a ladder yesterday, backwards, and landed on my left shoulder blade
>> > on a brick (the corner of it).
>> >
>> > After a 3 hour wait to be seen, 1 hour for an x-ray then a further 6 hour projected wait for a doctor / nurse practitioner; which i skipped, coming back this morning and 'only' waiting 5 hours... the verdict is in; broken left scapula.
>> >
>> > Oh well, matches the right from 20 years ago.
>> >
>> Ooof. I had my big ladder incident quite a few years ago now, and still
>> have a large scar, a big chunk of titanium, several bolts, the head of
>> my right hand radius missing and an arm that won't go fully straight.
>>
>> I try to be extra careful on ladders these days.
>
>Ladder incidents...

Heh.

--
Colin Irvine
FJR1300A

On Sun, 12 Sep 2021 10:25:23 -0700 (PDT), Stephen Packer
<stephen.packer@gmail.com> wrote:

>Fell off a ladder yesterday, backwards, and landed on my left shoulder blade
>on a brick (the corner of it).

You clumsy chap.

Mend fast.
--
Salad Dodger
1690 FLHTK;GL1800D
Previously ...
CB1300SA8;GL1800A6;GL1500SEV;CBR1100XXX;
CBR1000FL;CBX1000Z;GPz750R;Z750E1;Z650C2;
KH500A8;KH250B3;TS250c;TS185c.

On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 6:25:24 PM UTC+1, stephen...@gmail.com wrote:
> Fell off a ladder yesterday, backwards, and landed on my left shoulder blade
> on a brick (the corner of it).
>
> After a 3 hour wait to be seen, 1 hour for an x-ray then a further 6 hour projected wait for a doctor / nurse practitioner; which i skipped, coming back this morning and 'only' waiting 5 hours... the verdict is in; broken left scapula.
>
> Oh well, matches the right from 20 years ago.

GWS, YCC. Glad you're not dead.

--
WUN

On Tuesday, 14 September 2021 at 14:28:34 UTC+1, WUN wrote:
> On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 6:25:24 PM UTC+1, stephen...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Fell off a ladder yesterday, backwards, and landed on my left shoulder blade
> > on a brick (the corner of it).
> >
> > After a 3 hour wait to be seen, 1 hour for an x-ray then a further 6 hour projected wait for a doctor / nurse practitioner; which i skipped, coming back this morning and 'only' waiting 5 hours... the verdict is in; broken left scapula.
> >
> > Oh well, matches the right from 20 years ago.
> GWS, YCC. Glad you're not dead.

Thanks.

I keep wondering what would have happened if the brick were a few inches further from the ladder so my head made contact rather than my shoulder. I suspect it might have been much more serious than the situation I'm currently in. Or even if the brick wasn't there at all- I think my head would have taken a lot more of a beating than it did. Still, pointless thinking about such stuff.

In other news I was back up the ladder today driving in the screw that caused this problem and securing a tarp over the doorway 'for now' to stop the water going in.

On Tue, 14 Sep 2021 06:46:21 -0700 (PDT), Stephen Packer
<stephen.packer@gmail.com> wrote:

>In other news I was back up the ladder today driving in the screw that caused
>this problem and securing a tarp over the doorway 'for now' to stop the water going in.

<banjo music>
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old

Champ <neal@champ.org.uk> wrote in
news:kic1kg1eg1vfkd54g5u4i03mt7u7ke8fqh@4ax.com:

> On Tue, 14 Sep 2021 06:46:21 -0700 (PDT), Stephen Packer
> <stephen.packer@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>In other news I was back up the ladder today driving in the screw that
>>caused this problem and securing a tarp over the doorway 'for now' to
>>stop the water going in.
>
> <banjo music>

https://youtu.be/SdMfLJfZD54?t=76

On Tuesday, 14 September 2021 at 15:32:06 UTC+1, Champ wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Sep 2021 06:46:21 -0700 (PDT), Stephen Packer
> <stephen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >In other news I was back up the ladder today driving in the screw that caused
> >this problem and securing a tarp over the doorway 'for now' to stop the water going in.
> <banjo music>

It's only until I'm well enough to hang a door (and featherboard the outside).

On Sunday, 12 September 2021 at 18:25:24 UTC+1, stephen...@gmail.com wrote:
> Fell off a ladder yesterday, backwards, and landed on my left shoulder blade
> on a brick (the corner of it).

YTC.
Commisserations and GWS

One of the keys to accident free hospital builds was the banning of ladders of site. Mobile platforms and cherry pickers only.

> After a 3 hour wait to be seen, 1 hour for an x-ray then a further 6 hour projected wait for a doctor / nurse practitioner; which i skipped, coming back this morning and 'only' waiting 5 hours... the verdict is in; broken left scapula.

Frankly, in any sane world, that would be considered criminal negligence.

On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 18:33:19 +0100, Champ <neal@champ.org.uk> wrote:

>On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 07:05:43 -0700 (PDT), Stephen Packer
><stephen.packer@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Monday, 13 September 2021 at 14:50:25 UTC+1, Ace wrote:
>>
>>> Total number of bone breaks must be well over 30, 20+ in that one
>>> smash.
>
>>If I added in the various fingers, toes and ribs I think it would be high teens (but I can't remember them all).
>>
>>Jesus... I'm getting competitive about being a clumsy cunt.
>
>I thought it was traditional whenever the subject turned to broken
>bones for bikers to start totting up and comparing high scores?
>
><counts>
>I think I only get to 9. But a femur should count double, surely?

How many now?

--
Ace
http://www.chaletbeauroc.com/

On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 10:42:44 +0200, Ace <Ace@ch.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 18:33:19 +0100, Champ <neal@champ.org.uk> wrote:

>><counts>
>>I think I only get to 9. But a femur should count double, surely?

>How many now?

heh. My score is now up to 12 or 13 (the doc couldn't tell if the
splinter of bone visible on my index finger was an old injury or not)
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old

On Wednesday, 22 September 2021 at 11:54:11 UTC+1, Champ wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 10:42:44 +0200, Ace <A...@ch.com> wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 18:33:19 +0100, Champ <ne...@champ.org.uk> wrote:
>
> >><counts>
> >>I think I only get to 9. But a femur should count double, surely?
>
> >How many now?
> heh. My score is now up to 12 or 13 (the doc couldn't tell if the
> splinter of bone visible on my index finger was an old injury or not)

c'mon fingers, toes and ribs really don't count.

Unless you do it properly like Alex.

On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 05:14:05 -0700 (PDT), Stephen Packer
<stephen.packer@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, 22 September 2021 at 11:54:11 UTC+1, Champ wrote:
>> On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 10:42:44 +0200, Ace <A...@ch.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 18:33:19 +0100, Champ <ne...@champ.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>> >><counts>
>> >>I think I only get to 9. But a femur should count double, surely?
>>
>> >How many now?
>> heh. My score is now up to 12 or 13 (the doc couldn't tell if the
>> splinter of bone visible on my index finger was an old injury or not)

>c'mon fingers, toes and ribs really don't count.

Fair point

>Unless you do it properly like Alex.

<wince>
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old

On Wednesday, September 22, 2021 at 8:14:06 AM UTC-4, stephen...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, 22 September 2021 at 11:54:11 UTC+1, Champ wrote:

> c'mon fingers, toes and ribs really don't count.
>
> Unless you do it properly like Alex.

Not sure I know about this. Do I want to know about this?

On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 05:14:05 -0700 (PDT), Stephen Packer
<stephen.packer@gmail.com> wrote:

>c'mon fingers, toes and ribs really don't count.

Having broken the same two ribs twice I think I'd disagree about that
- long lasting and surprisingly debilitating.

Also did for my right arm, right leg, left kneecap and left shoulder
in one single incident - the only time I have ever been thrown into a
pub rather than out.

--

Pete
Garage vacancy now filled, N+1 incremented accordingly
F800R

On Wednesday, 22 September 2021 at 21:10:44 UTC+1, Pete wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 05:14:05 -0700 (PDT), Stephen Packer
> <stephen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >c'mon fingers, toes and ribs really don't count.
> Having broken the same two ribs twice I think I'd disagree about that
> - long lasting and surprisingly debilitating.

I've done a few ribs crashing things and falling off things but I really wouldn't equate them
with a limb; a couple of weeks of severe pain when you use your core muscles, another two
or so weeks of pain when you move around but it's nowhere near as inconveniencing as a
limb and doesn't need a lot of work to rebuild muscle afterwards.

On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 14:04:11 -0700 (PDT), Stephen Packer
<stephen.packer@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, 22 September 2021 at 21:10:44 UTC+1, Pete wrote:
>> On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 05:14:05 -0700 (PDT), Stephen Packer
>> <stephen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >c'mon fingers, toes and ribs really don't count.
>> Having broken the same two ribs twice I think I'd disagree about that
>> - long lasting and surprisingly debilitating.
>
>I've done a few ribs crashing things and falling off things but I really wouldn't equate them
>with a limb; a couple of weeks of severe pain when you use your core muscles, another two
>or so weeks of pain when you move around but it's nowhere near as inconveniencing as a
>limb and doesn't need a lot of work to rebuild muscle afterwards.

Individually, and simple breaks, sure, but multiple breaks, even in a
single rib, will almost inevitably cause a collapsed lung, which is
pretty damned serious. A compound break can even puncture the lung.

Break them all (well, nearly) in one go and you're looking at
intensive care, pressure-assisted breathing, much, MUCH, morphine and
possibly long-term changes to the whole shape of the ribcage, with
ongoing problems such as permanent pain.

So no, I can't agree.

--
Ace
http://www.chaletbeauroc.com/

On 22/09/2021 22:38, Ace wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 14:04:11 -0700 (PDT), Stephen Packer
> <stephen.packer@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, 22 September 2021 at 21:10:44 UTC+1, Pete wrote:
>>> On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 05:14:05 -0700 (PDT), Stephen Packer
>>> <stephen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> c'mon fingers, toes and ribs really don't count.
>>> Having broken the same two ribs twice I think I'd disagree about that
>>> - long lasting and surprisingly debilitating.
>>
>> I've done a few ribs crashing things and falling off things but I really wouldn't equate them
>> with a limb; a couple of weeks of severe pain when you use your core muscles, another two
>> or so weeks of pain when you move around but it's nowhere near as inconveniencing as a
>> limb and doesn't need a lot of work to rebuild muscle afterwards.
>
> Individually, and simple breaks, sure, but multiple breaks, even in a
> single rib, will almost inevitably cause a collapsed lung, which is
> pretty damned serious. A compound break can even puncture the lung.

I broke several (never got told how many) highsiding the Tiger, with a
concomitant punctured lung. In A&E, the consultant asked if it was OK if
he showed his trainee how to put in a drain, and I said yes. "First,
local anaesthetic" (needle prick) "Then we make the incision,
positioning it between these ribs" (no, didn't feel that). "Next, we
separate the ribs slightly" (AAARGH AAAARGH Fucking hell sorry about the
swearing) "Like this?" (AAARGH again) "And then we insert the drain" (OW
OW OW). Then they experimented with a mixture of morphine and ketamine
on me. All in all, an eventful day.

One of the Ixion contingent, Jeff Wayne, crashed in Norway into a ditch
and his bike followed him in and landed on top of him. Many broken ribs,
both lungs punctured. He succumbed to that a few days later.

On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 23:56:04 +0100, Mike Fleming <mike@tauzero.co.uk>
wrote:

>On 22/09/2021 22:38, Ace wrote:

>> Individually, and simple breaks, sure, but multiple breaks, even in a
>> single rib, will almost inevitably cause a collapsed lung, which is
>> pretty damned serious. A compound break can even puncture the lung.
>
>I broke several (never got told how many) highsiding the Tiger, with a
>concomitant punctured lung. In A&E, the consultant asked if it was OK if
>he showed his trainee how to put in a drain, and I said yes. "First,
>local anaesthetic" (needle prick) "Then we make the incision,
>positioning it between these ribs" (no, didn't feel that). "Next, we
>separate the ribs slightly" (AAARGH AAAARGH Fucking hell sorry about the
>swearing) "Like this?" (AAARGH again) "And then we insert the drain" (OW
>OW OW). Then they experimented with a mixture of morphine and ketamine
>on me. All in all, an eventful day.

I was unaware of the first drain being inserted, as I was so heavily
drugged up that I might as well have been under a General Anaesthetic.
Roll on a week in intensive care, they finally realise that the other
lung is also collapsed, for how long wasn't clear, although I'd been
complaining for days about the pressure building in the abdominal
cavity. So this time they put the drain in as you described; the
incision was not too bad, although ISTR there were scissors involved,
nit just a scalpel, but the final entry was possibly the most painful
thing I've ever experienced in my life. Nothing could have prepared me
for it.

The doctor wasn't prepared either, for the torrent of bloody fluids
that spurted out, liberally covering him and much of the room, and I
suspect the release of pressure was a significant factor in the pain
levels.

--
Ace
http://www.chaletbeauroc.com/

On Wednesday, 22 September 2021 at 22:38:11 UTC+1, Ace wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 14:04:11 -0700 (PDT), Stephen Packer
> <stephen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Wednesday, 22 September 2021 at 21:10:44 UTC+1, Pete wrote:
> >> On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 05:14:05 -0700 (PDT), Stephen Packer
> >> <stephen...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >c'mon fingers, toes and ribs really don't count.
> >> Having broken the same two ribs twice I think I'd disagree about that
> >> - long lasting and surprisingly debilitating.
> >
> >I've done a few ribs crashing things and falling off things but I really wouldn't equate them
> >with a limb; a couple of weeks of severe pain when you use your core muscles, another two
> >or so weeks of pain when you move around but it's nowhere near as inconveniencing as a
> >limb and doesn't need a lot of work to rebuild muscle afterwards.
> Individually, and simple breaks, sure, but multiple breaks, even in a
> single rib, will almost inevitably cause a collapsed lung, which is
> pretty damned serious. A compound break can even puncture the lung.
>
> Break them all (well, nearly) in one go and you're looking at
> intensive care, pressure-assisted breathing, much, MUCH, morphine and
> possibly long-term changes to the whole shape of the ribcage, with
> ongoing problems such as permanent pain.
>
> So no, I can't agree.

I guess there are rib breaks and rib breaks and so far I've been fortunate to have only done
the former.

But in terms of the scoring system... if it's the simple break I think it's stretching it to include it.

On Thu, 23 Sep 2021 00:41:15 -0700 (PDT), Stephen Packer
<stephen.packer@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>But in terms of the scoring system...

You have a full-blown system now? Pray share. I'm intrigued to see
what factors you've decided to include and which to ignore.

>if it's the simple break I think it's stretching it to include it.

You can't really stretch ribs - simple break or otherwise once they're
broken they'll stick back together wherever they damn well please,
TYVM.

--
Ace
http://www.chaletbeauroc.com/

On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 08:38:05 -0700 (PDT), Ben Blaney
<benblaney@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, September 22, 2021 at 8:14:06 AM UTC-4, stephen...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Wednesday, 22 September 2021 at 11:54:11 UTC+1, Champ wrote:
>
>> c'mon fingers, toes and ribs really don't count.
>>
>> Unless you do it properly like Alex.
>
>Not sure I know about this. Do I want to know about this?

Well, you asked, so now you're gonna know...

Alex lost most of one of his big toes when it was ground off in a bike
crash. I think he was a fairly young man when it happened, as it
pre-dated ukrm
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old

On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 23:38:10 +0200, Ace <Ace@ch.com> wrote:

>>> >c'mon fingers, toes and ribs really don't count.
>>> Having broken the same two ribs twice I think I'd disagree about that
>>> - long lasting and surprisingly debilitating.
>>
>>I've done a few ribs crashing things and falling off things but I really wouldn't equate them
>>with a limb; a couple of weeks of severe pain when you use your core muscles, another two
>>or so weeks of pain when you move around but it's nowhere near as inconveniencing as a
>>limb and doesn't need a lot of work to rebuild muscle afterwards.
>
>Individually, and simple breaks, sure, but multiple breaks, even in a
>single rib, will almost inevitably cause a collapsed lung, which is
>pretty damned serious. A compound break can even puncture the lung.
>
>Break them all (well, nearly) in one go and you're looking at
>intensive care, pressure-assisted breathing, much, MUCH, morphine and
>possibly long-term changes to the whole shape of the ribcage, with
>ongoing problems such as permanent pain.
>
>So no, I can't agree.

heh, I was waiting for you to end this with a "DAMHIK, IJK, OK?"
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old

On Thu, 23 Sep 2021 10:02:43 +0200, Ace <Ace@ch.com> wrote:

>>But in terms of the scoring system...

>You have a full-blown system now? Pray share. I'm intrigued to see
>what factors you've decided to include and which to ignore.

+1

And I can think of no one better experienced than Steve to draw up
such a system :-)
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old

On Thu, 23 Sep 2021 09:40:31 +0100, Champ <neal@champ.org.uk> wrote:

>On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 23:38:10 +0200, Ace <Ace@ch.com> wrote:

>>So no, I can't agree.
>
>heh, I was waiting for you to end this with a "DAMHIK, IJK, OK?"

I did actually type that, but then thought it sounded a bit stupid,
given that I've mentioned it here on more than one occasion in the
past.

--
Ace
http://www.chaletbeauroc.com/

On Thursday, 23 September 2021 at 09:02:45 UTC+1, Ace wrote:

> You have a full-blown system now? Pray share. I'm intrigued to see
> what factors you've decided to include and which to ignore.

Well, of course I don't have a system but rely on the 'my injury is worse
than your injury principle'.

If I were to try to put a system together I think it would need a few weighting factors.
1) Hierarchy of bones:
a) Back / Neck
b) Femur
c) Tibia / Fibula
d) Scapula
e) Humerus
f) Radius/Ulna
g) Scaphoid
h) Collar bone
i) ribs
j) finger/toes (and other small bones in feet and hands- extra points if digits lost)
k) nose/cheek bones (extra points if cheek bone and helmet used to ride bike to hospital)

2) Hierarchy of type of break
a) Compound
b) Displaced
c) Simple fracture

3) Duration of hospital stay

4) Number of surgical procedures

5) Additional factors for treatment by traction

6) Additional factors for insertion of lumps of metal; slight reduction if these are later removed.

7) Long term impact:
a) Inability for neck/back to function as originally designed.
b) Limp (legs<<other parts)
c) Reduction in full mobility of joint.

8) Journey to Hospital
a) Helicopter.
b) Ambulance.
c) Motorcycle (trumps ambulance if limb broken and self-ridden. Further points if it's the bike
that was crashed causing the break).
d) Car (note, car trumps ambulance if driven while a limb is broken).

9) Journey back from hospital
a) Motorbike (self ridden while plastered, extra points if subsequent accident)
b) Car (if self driven while plastered, extra points if subsequent accident)
c) Motorcycle, Pillion (extra points if crutches dropped)
d) Ambulance

10) Quality of tale of any part of the breaking/treating/healing process.

Think that should just about cover it?