On 29/04/2022 15:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 29/04/2022 10:08, Fredxx wrote:
>> On 29/04/2022 03:38, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 28/04/2022 21:16, Fredxx wrote:
>>>> Quite, some of the anti-vaxxers beliefs are made on facts or pseudo
>>>> facts. That can hardly be said about religion which are based on
>>>> blind belief and a selfish wish to live forever.
>>>>
>>>> Some even despise conscience and say however shitty you've been to
>>>> fellow man, you're forgiven.
>>>>
>>> It is unusual to finjd someone so ignorant about everything as you.
>>> I almost admire it
>>
>> For someone who is in denial that Zelensky had agreed to stay out of
>> NATO, it is not me who is ignorant.
>
> Try NOT lying.

Did he say that or not?

>> If you're the type to have unjustified beliefs in being a climate
>> denier, then I can understand why you would believe in some mythical
>> deity.
>>
>
> If you're the type to have unjustified beliefs in being a climate
> denier, then I can understand why you would believe in some mythical deity.

I'm not the one who feels the need to justify some mythical deity.

On 29/04/2022 15:20, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <t4esn4$ugg$1@dont-email.me>,
> Fredxx <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:
>> On 28/04/2022 16:00, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>>> In article <t4e18g$lm$1@dont-email.me>,
>>> Fredxx <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> People believe in worse. If you wish to denigrate anti-vaxxers, why
>>>>>> not continue your stand of pseudo science and self-researched
>>>>>> twaddle to include religion and holy books?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do you believe in some mythical deity?
>>>>>
>>>>> What's that got to do with the price of eggs?
>>>
>>>> It's an unscientific belief system similar to anti-vaxxers. It is
>>>> similar in that each belief system rubbishes every other belief
>>>> system.
>>>
>>> Religions of one sort or another have been around from primitive
>>> times. Refined over many many years. To many now simply a tradition -
>>> like our Royal family or wearing strange clothes in the law.
>>>
>>> To classify being anti-vax in the same breath shows a remarkable lack
>>> of judgment.
>
>> Quite, some of the anti-vaxxers beliefs are made on facts or pseudo
>> facts. That can hardly be said about religion which are based on blind
>> belief and a selfish wish to live forever.
>
> You seem to think there is only one religion.
>
>> Some even despise conscience and say however shitty you've been to
>> fellow man, you're forgiven.
>
> See above.
>
> BTW, I'm not defending any particular religion. But then few attempt to
> push their religion on here. Unlike the views of the madman Doom.

I have seen many of here rubbishing other peoples' beliefs and trying to
justify their own.

On 29/04/2022 18:14, Fredxx wrote:
> On 29/04/2022 15:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 29/04/2022 10:08, Fredxx wrote:
>>> On 29/04/2022 03:38, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> On 28/04/2022 21:16, Fredxx wrote:
>>>>> Quite, some of the anti-vaxxers beliefs are made on facts or pseudo
>>>>> facts. That can hardly be said about religion which are based on
>>>>> blind belief and a selfish wish to live forever.
>>>>>
>>>>> Some even despise conscience and say however shitty you've been to
>>>>> fellow man, you're forgiven.
>>>>>
>>>> It is unusual to finjd someone so ignorant about everything as you.
>>>> I almost admire it
>>>
>>> For someone who is in denial that Zelensky had agreed to stay out of
>>> NATO, it is not me who is ignorant.
>>
>> Try NOT lying.
>
> Did he say that or not?
if I say I agree to do something something it doesn't mean I actually
agree to do it. Christ you are so naive. Comes from all that believing
in the guardian I guess.

>
>>> If you're the type to have unjustified beliefs in being a climate
>>> denier, then I can understand why you would believe in some mythical
>>> deity.
>>>
>>
>> If you're the type to have unjustified beliefs in being a climate
>> denier, then I can understand why you would believe in some mythical
>> deity.
>
> I'm not the one who feels the need to justify some mythical deity.
>
But you are. Climate change.

>
>

--
"In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is
true: it is true because it is powerful."

Lucas Bergkamp

Fredxx <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote
> Max Demian wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> Fredxx <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote

>>>> Some even despise conscience and say however shitty you've been to
>>>> fellow man, you're forgiven.

>> There's just one sin ("The sin against the Holy Ghost") that can't be
>> forgiven: unfortunately no-one knows what it is. It could be something
>> that you do every day, so you are unforgivably damned, so might as well
>> sin while you have the chance. All other sins may be forgiven, but
>> Christian dogma varies as to how this happens.

> I thought blasphemy was 'unforgivable'?

Yep
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_sin

So clearly no heaven me, but then I sold my sole to that devil fella long
ago and the last thing I need is fools on clouds playing harp music.

>>> Not sure that is true, tho it is less clear what roman catholic child
>>> molesters 'think' in that regard. Hard to believe that they really
>>> believe that all they have to do is confess their child molesting
>>> before they die to still get into heaven, but presumably they do.

>> There's nothing in the Bible forbidding "child molesting", however
>> such term is defined.

> I thought there was a catch-all about observing state laws/rules?

That isn't the same thing as a sin that prevents you
being able to be forgiven so you can enter heaven tho.

> Since stoning practising homosexuals became unlawful, it didn't take
> much to brush Leviticus 20:13 aside.

On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 03:16:15 +1000, Fredxx <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:

> On 29/04/2022 15:20, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>> In article <t4esn4$ugg$1@dont-email.me>,
>> Fredxx <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:
>>> On 28/04/2022 16:00, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>>>> In article <t4e18g$lm$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>> Fredxx <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> People believe in worse. If you wish to denigrate anti-vaxxers, why
>>>>>>> not continue your stand of pseudo science and self-researched
>>>>>>> twaddle to include religion and holy books?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Do you believe in some mythical deity?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What's that got to do with the price of eggs?
>>>>
>>>>> It's an unscientific belief system similar to anti-vaxxers. It is
>>>>> similar in that each belief system rubbishes every other belief
>>>>> system.
>>>>
>>>> Religions of one sort or another have been around from primitive
>>>> times. Refined over many many years. To many now simply a tradition -
>>>> like our Royal family or wearing strange clothes in the law.
>>>>
>>>> To classify being anti-vax in the same breath shows a remarkable lack
>>>> of judgment.
>>
>>> Quite, some of the anti-vaxxers beliefs are made on facts or pseudo
>>> facts. That can hardly be said about religion which are based on blind
>>> belief and a selfish wish to live forever.
>> You seem to think there is only one religion.
>>
>>> Some even despise conscience and say however shitty you've been to
>>> fellow man, you're forgiven.
>> See above.
>> BTW, I'm not defending any particular religion. But then few attempt to
>> push their religion on here. Unlike the views of the madman Doom.
>
> I have seen many of here rubbishing other peoples' beliefs and trying to
> justify their own.

But not with their particular RELIGIOUS BELIEFS.

On 29/04/2022 18:19, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 29/04/2022 18:14, Fredxx wrote:
>> On 29/04/2022 15:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 29/04/2022 10:08, Fredxx wrote:
>>>> On 29/04/2022 03:38, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>> On 28/04/2022 21:16, Fredxx wrote:
>>>>>> Quite, some of the anti-vaxxers beliefs are made on facts or
>>>>>> pseudo facts. That can hardly be said about religion which are
>>>>>> based on blind belief and a selfish wish to live forever.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some even despise conscience and say however shitty you've been to
>>>>>> fellow man, you're forgiven.
>>>>>>
>>>>> It is unusual to finjd someone so ignorant about everything as you.
>>>>> I almost admire it
>>>>
>>>> For someone who is in denial that Zelensky had agreed to stay out of
>>>> NATO, it is not me who is ignorant.
>>>
>>> Try NOT lying.
>>
>> Did he say that or not?
> if I say I agree to do something something it doesn't mean I actually
> agree to do it. Christ you are so naive.

You were the one backing Wodney, and his claim that "Zelensky had agreed
to stay out of NATO" was BS.

> Comes from all that believing
> in the guardian I guess.

Or the Daily Mail and lots of other news outlets.

>>
>>>> If you're the type to have unjustified beliefs in being a climate
>>>> denier, then I can understand why you would believe in some mythical
>>>> deity.
>>>>
>>>
>>> If you're the type to have unjustified beliefs in being a climate
>>> denier, then I can understand why you would believe in some mythical
>>> deity.
>>
>> I'm not the one who feels the need to justify some mythical deity.
>>
> But you are. Climate change.

I am what? I have no need to justify anything.

On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 05:28:43 +1000, Fredxx <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:

> On 29/04/2022 18:19, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 29/04/2022 18:14, Fredxx wrote:
>>> On 29/04/2022 15:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> On 29/04/2022 10:08, Fredxx wrote:
>>>>> On 29/04/2022 03:38, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>> On 28/04/2022 21:16, Fredxx wrote:
>>>>>>> Quite, some of the anti-vaxxers beliefs are made on facts or
>>>>>>> pseudo facts. That can hardly be said about religion which are
>>>>>>> based on blind belief and a selfish wish to live forever.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Some even despise conscience and say however shitty you've been to
>>>>>>> fellow man, you're forgiven.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is unusual to finjd someone so ignorant about everything as you.
>>>>>> I almost admire it
>>>>>
>>>>> For someone who is in denial that Zelensky had agreed to stay out of
>>>>> NATO, it is not me who is ignorant.
>>>>
>>>> Try NOT lying.
>>>
>>> Did he say that or not?
>> if I say I agree to do something something it doesn't mean I actually
>> agree to do it. Christ you are so naive.
>
> You were the one backing Wodney, and his claim that "Zelensky had agreed
> to stay out of NATO" was BS.

He never AGREED to anything, the most he might have done is ANNOUNCED that
decision of his

On 29/04/2022 10:08, Fredxx wrote:
> On 29/04/2022 03:38, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 28/04/2022 21:16, Fredxx wrote:
>>> Quite, some of the anti-vaxxers beliefs are made on facts or pseudo
>>> facts. That can hardly be said about religion which are based on
>>> blind belief and a selfish wish to live forever.
>>>
>>> Some even despise conscience and say however shitty you've been to
>>> fellow man, you're forgiven.
>>>
>> It is unusual to finjd someone so ignorant about everything as you.
>> I almost admire it
>
> For someone who is in denial that Zelensky had agreed to stay out of
> NATO, it is not me who is ignorant.

Ukraine is not in and was not attempting to join NATO. NATO has not
responded to the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Some countries that happen
to be in NATO have agreed to help Ukraine, but only with supplies.

On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 07:23:41 +1000, Steve Walker
<steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:

> On 29/04/2022 10:08, Fredxx wrote:
>> On 29/04/2022 03:38, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 28/04/2022 21:16, Fredxx wrote:
>>>> Quite, some of the anti-vaxxers beliefs are made on facts or pseudo
>>>> facts. That can hardly be said about religion which are based on
>>>> blind belief and a selfish wish to live forever.
>>>>
>>>> Some even despise conscience and say however shitty you've been to
>>>> fellow man, you're forgiven.
>>>>
>>> It is unusual to finjd someone so ignorant about everything as you.
>>> I almost admire it
>> For someone who is in denial that Zelensky had agreed to stay out of
>> NATO, it is not me who is ignorant.

> Ukraine is not in and was not attempting to join NATO.

> NATO has not responded to the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

That isn't accurate, NATO has in fact moved quite a bit
of military hardware and personell into Poland since
Russia and Belarus did their military buildup and even
flew some B52s into the UK

> Some countries that happen to be in NATO have agreed to help Ukraine,
> but only with supplies.

On 29/04/2022 22:23, Steve Walker wrote:
> On 29/04/2022 10:08, Fredxx wrote:
>> On 29/04/2022 03:38, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 28/04/2022 21:16, Fredxx wrote:
>>>> Quite, some of the anti-vaxxers beliefs are made on facts or pseudo
>>>> facts. That can hardly be said about religion which are based on
>>>> blind belief and a selfish wish to live forever.
>>>>
>>>> Some even despise conscience and say however shitty you've been to
>>>> fellow man, you're forgiven.
>>>>
>>> It is unusual to finjd someone so ignorant about everything as you.
>>> I almost admire it
>>
>> For someone who is in denial that Zelensky had agreed to stay out of
>> NATO, it is not me who is ignorant.
>
> Ukraine is not in and was not attempting to join NATO.

Before, and at the start of the war, Zelensky was making noises to join
NATO and the EU. Have you forgotten as well?

> NATO has not
> responded to the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Some countries that happen
> to be in NATO have agreed to help Ukraine, but only with supplies.

Quite, we all should know that. I don't get your point.

In article <t4jd4a$ae6$3@dont-email.me>,
Fredxx <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:
> > Ukraine is not in and was not attempting to join NATO.

> Before, and at the start of the war, Zelensky was making noises to join
> NATO and the EU. Have you forgotten as well?

And he was right, wasn't he? Putin would have thought long and hard before
invading a NATO country.

--
*Always drink upstream from the herd *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 30/04/2022 14:46, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <t4jd4a$ae6$3@dont-email.me>,
> Fredxx <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:
>>> Ukraine is not in and was not attempting to join NATO.
>
>> Before, and at the start of the war, Zelensky was making noises to join
>> NATO and the EU. Have you forgotten as well?
>
> And he was right, wasn't he? Putin would have thought long and hard before
> invading a NATO country.

No, he lost the moment years ago, and the threat of joining NATO was the
excuse Putin wanted for his invasion.

But you're right in one sense, Putin wouldn't have invaded Ukraine if
they had joined, what Russia sees as the US-NATO alliance. But Putin was
smart enough not to wait for this and to invade first.

Putin enjoys quite a bit of support in Russia. This war will simply take
as long as it takes. At the end of the day Ukraine will be decimated,
all for the want of joining NATO and the EU.

In war there are no winners, but to think your views are holier than
thou is always wrong.

On 28 Apr 2022 at 09:12:50 BST, Pancho <Pancho.Dontmaileme@outlook.com> wrote:

> The USA is far more active than Russia in interfering with the freedoms
> of other countries: Iran, Venezuela, Iraq, Libya, North Korea,
> Yugoslavia, Cuba,... etc.

In what way did the USA interfere with North Korea's freedom?

--
If your experiment needs statistics, you ought to have done a better experiment.

Ernest Rutherford

In article <t4jgc3$9vo$1@dont-email.me>,
Fredxx <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:
> On 30/04/2022 14:46, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> > In article <t4jd4a$ae6$3@dont-email.me>,
> > Fredxx <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:
> >>> Ukraine is not in and was not attempting to join NATO.
> >
> >> Before, and at the start of the war, Zelensky was making noises to join
> >> NATO and the EU. Have you forgotten as well?
> >
> > And he was right, wasn't he? Putin would have thought long and hard before
> > invading a NATO country.

> No, he lost the moment years ago, and the threat of joining NATO was the
> excuse Putin wanted for his invasion.

Really? Many would say no excuse needed.

> But you're right in one sense, Putin wouldn't have invaded Ukraine if
> they had joined, what Russia sees as the US-NATO alliance. But Putin was
> smart enough not to wait for this and to invade first.

Or the Ukraine not smart enough to join earlier?

> Putin enjoys quite a bit of support in Russia. This war will simply take
> as long as it takes. At the end of the day Ukraine will be decimated,
> all for the want of joining NATO and the EU.

Sadly, you're right. And let Putin get away with it, several other non
NATO neighbours will be next.

> In war there are no winners, but to think your views are holier than
> thou is always wrong.

It's not much different in essence from the UK deciding to leave the EU.
Nationalism.

--
*If a pig loses its voice, is it disgruntled?

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sun, 01 May 2022 00:16:35 +1000, Fredxx <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:

> On 30/04/2022 14:46, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>> In article <t4jd4a$ae6$3@dont-email.me>,
>> Fredxx <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:
>>>> Ukraine is not in and was not attempting to join NATO.
>>
>>> Before, and at the start of the war, Zelensky was making noises to join
>>> NATO and the EU. Have you forgotten as well?
>> And he was right, wasn't he? Putin would have thought long and hard
>> before
>> invading a NATO country.
>
> No, he lost the moment years ago,

Like hell he did.

> and the threat of joining NATO was the excuse Putin wanted for his
> invasion.

More of your mindless bullshit.

> But you're right in one sense, Putin wouldn't have invaded Ukraineif
> they had joined, what Russia sees as the US-NATO alliance.

Like hell he does.

> But Putin was smart enough not to wait for this and to invade first.

Even sillier than you usually manage and that's saying something.

> Putin enjoys quite a bit of support in Russia.

Yes, quite a few russians are as big arseholes as Putin.

Most of them did support Russia applying the jackboot
to the countrys in the USSR and sending in the tanks to
Hungary and Ceckoslovakia too, so what ?

> This war will simply take as long as it takes.

Just like with Afghanistan, eh ?

> At the end of the day Ukraine will be decimated,

Bullshit.

> all for the want of joining NATO and the EU.

So you would have put your hands up when Adolf demanded
that Britain did that ? Figures.

> In war there are no winners,

More of your mindless bullshit.

> but to think your views are holier than thou is always wrong.

More of your mindless bullshit.

On Sun, 01 May 2022 00:46:18 +1000, Tim Streater
<timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:

> On 28 Apr 2022 at 09:12:50 BST, Pancho <Pancho.Dontmaileme@outlook.com>
> wrote:
>
>> The USA is far more active than Russia in interfering with the freedoms
>> of other countries: Iran, Venezuela, Iraq, Libya, North Korea,
>> Yugoslavia, Cuba,... etc.
>
> In what way did the USA interfere with North Korea's freedom?

By applying sanctions to try to stop them developing nukes.

On 30/04/2022 15:16, Fredxx wrote:
> On 30/04/2022 14:46, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>> In article <t4jd4a$ae6$3@dont-email.me>,
>>     Fredxx <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:
>>>> Ukraine is not in and was not attempting to join NATO.
>>
>>> Before, and at the start of the war, Zelensky was making noises to join
>>> NATO and the EU. Have you forgotten as well?
>>
>> And he was right, wasn't he? Putin would have thought long and hard
>> before
>> invading a NATO country.
>
> No, he lost the moment years ago, and the threat of joining NATO was the
> excuse Putin wanted for his invasion.
>
> But you're right in one sense, Putin wouldn't have invaded Ukraine if
> they had joined, what Russia sees as the US-NATO alliance. But Putin was
> smart enough not to wait for this and to invade first.

Which he did in 2014. Once there was a disputed occupation in place, it
made joining NATO pretty much impossible.

> Putin enjoys quite a bit of support in Russia. This war will simply take
> as long as it takes. At the end of the day Ukraine will be decimated,
> all for the want of joining NATO and the EU.

Their wants or desires probably don't come into it. Those are just
things that putin can claim as a justification for his actions. The
reality is he wants the land and to grow a new soviet empire. He does
not believe that Ukraine should even exist as a nation state. If he
could wipe the population from the face of the earth into the process, I
am sure he would think of that as a bonus.

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

On 30 Apr 2022 at 19:22:50 BST, Jock <kdj@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 01 May 2022 00:46:18 +1000, Tim Streater
> <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
>
>> On 28 Apr 2022 at 09:12:50 BST, Pancho <Pancho.Dontmaileme@outlook.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The USA is far more active than Russia in interfering with the freedoms
>>> of other countries: Iran, Venezuela, Iraq, Libya, North Korea,
>>> Yugoslavia, Cuba,... etc.
>>
>> In what way did the USA interfere with North Korea's freedom?
>
> By applying sanctions to try to stop them developing nukes.

That worked well, eh?

--
"The EU Customs Union is a racket that defends producers in rich countries against producers in poor countries."

Jacob Rees-Mogg MP

On Sun, 01 May 2022 05:50:53 +1000, Tim Streater
<timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:

> On 30 Apr 2022 at 19:22:50 BST, Jock <kdj@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 01 May 2022 00:46:18 +1000, Tim Streater
>> <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 28 Apr 2022 at 09:12:50 BST, Pancho <Pancho.Dontmaileme@outlook.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The USA is far more active than Russia in interfering with the
>>>> freedoms
>>>> of other countries: Iran, Venezuela, Iraq, Libya, North Korea,
>>>> Yugoslavia, Cuba,... etc.
>>>
>>> In what way did the USA interfere with North Korea's freedom?
>>
>> By applying sanctions to try to stop them developing nukes.
>
> That worked well, eh?

Irrelevanf to the fact that they did that.

On 30/04/2022 16:43, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <t4jgc3$9vo$1@dont-email.me>,
> Fredxx <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:
>> On 30/04/2022 14:46, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>>> In article <t4jd4a$ae6$3@dont-email.me>,
>>> Fredxx <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:
>>>>> Ukraine is not in and was not attempting to join NATO.
>>>
>>>> Before, and at the start of the war, Zelensky was making noises to join
>>>> NATO and the EU. Have you forgotten as well?
>>>
>>> And he was right, wasn't he? Putin would have thought long and hard before
>>> invading a NATO country.
>
>> No, he lost the moment years ago, and the threat of joining NATO was the
>> excuse Putin wanted for his invasion.
>
> Really? Many would say no excuse needed.

He needs support from Russians. So some sort of justifiable reason to
lose young Russian lies in a conflict.

>> But you're right in one sense, Putin wouldn't have invaded Ukraine if
>> they had joined, what Russia sees as the US-NATO alliance. But Putin was
>> smart enough not to wait for this and to invade first.
>
> Or the Ukraine not smart enough to join earlier?

You may be right, slower than Poland and some other countries.

>> Putin enjoys quite a bit of support in Russia. This war will simply take
>> as long as it takes. At the end of the day Ukraine will be decimated,
>> all for the want of joining NATO and the EU.
>
> Sadly, you're right. And let Putin get away with it, several other non
> NATO neighbours will be next.

I don't think there are a few countries with Russian sympathisers such
as Moldova that Putin can 'rescue'.

>> In war there are no winners, but to think your views are holier than
>> thou is always wrong.
>
> It's not much different in essence from the UK deciding to leave the EU.
> Nationalism.

Brexit, like the Ukraine war was avoidable. It took Major and Blair to
go a step too far to welcome the East European states and give their
populations free movement, in much the same way Zelensky went too far to
threaten joining NATO and the EU.

On 29/04/2022 20:28, Fredxx wrote:
> On 29/04/2022 18:19, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 29/04/2022 18:14, Fredxx wrote:
>>> On 29/04/2022 15:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> On 29/04/2022 10:08, Fredxx wrote:
>>>>> On 29/04/2022 03:38, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>> On 28/04/2022 21:16, Fredxx wrote:
>>>>>>> Quite, some of the anti-vaxxers beliefs are made on facts or
>>>>>>> pseudo facts. That can hardly be said about religion which are
>>>>>>> based on blind belief and a selfish wish to live forever.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Some even despise conscience and say however shitty you've been
>>>>>>> to fellow man, you're forgiven.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is unusual to finjd someone so ignorant about everything as you.
>>>>>> I almost admire it
>>>>>
>>>>> For someone who is in denial that Zelensky had agreed to stay out
>>>>> of NATO, it is not me who is ignorant.
>>>>
>>>> Try NOT lying.
>>>
>>> Did he say that or not?
>> if I say I agree to do something something it doesn't mean I actually
>> agree to do it. Christ you are so naive.
>
> You were the one backing Wodney, and his claim that "Zelensky had agreed
> to stay out of NATO" was BS.
>

I wasnt. I merely pointed out the distinction between saying something
and doing it.
You filled the rest in in your warped mind

>> Comes from all that believing in the guardian I guess.
>
> Or the Daily Mail and lots of other news outlets.
>
>>>
>>>>> If you're the type to have unjustified beliefs in being a climate
>>>>> denier, then I can understand why you would believe in some
>>>>> mythical deity.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If you're the type to have unjustified beliefs in being a climate
>>>> denier, then I can understand why you would believe in some mythical
>>>> deity.
>>>
>>> I'm not the one who feels the need to justify some mythical deity.
>>>
>> But you are. Climate change.
>
> I am what? I have no need to justify anything.

For someone who spends hours on line doing just that, it is clear they
you are totally delusional...

--
"In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is
true: it is true because it is powerful."

Lucas Bergkamp

On 01/05/2022 01:17, Fredxx wrote:
> On 30/04/2022 16:43, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>> In article <t4jgc3$9vo$1@dont-email.me>,
>>     Fredxx <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:
>>> On 30/04/2022 14:46, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>>>> In article <t4jd4a$ae6$3@dont-email.me>,
>>>>      Fredxx <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> Ukraine is not in and was not attempting to join NATO.
>>>>
>>>>> Before, and at the start of the war, Zelensky was making noises to
>>>>> join
>>>>> NATO and the EU. Have you forgotten as well?
>>>>
>>>> And he was right, wasn't he? Putin would have thought long and hard
>>>> before
>>>> invading a NATO country.
>>
>>> No, he lost the moment years ago, and the threat of joining NATO was the
>>> excuse Putin wanted for his invasion.
>>
>> Really? Many would say no excuse needed.
>
> He needs support from Russians. So some sort of justifiable reason to
> lose young Russian lies in a conflict.
>
>>> But you're right in one sense, Putin wouldn't have invaded Ukraine if
>>> they had joined, what Russia sees as the US-NATO alliance. But Putin was
>>> smart enough not to wait for this and to invade first.
>>
>> Or the Ukraine not smart enough to join earlier?
>
> You may be right, slower than Poland and some other countries.
>
>>> Putin enjoys quite a bit of support in Russia. This war will simply take
>>> as long as it takes. At the end of the day Ukraine will be decimated,
>>> all for the want of joining NATO and the EU.
>>
>> Sadly, you're right. And let Putin get away with it, several other non
>> NATO neighbours will be next.
>
> I don't think there are a few countries with Russian sympathisers such
> as Moldova that Putin can 'rescue'.
>
>>> In war there are no winners, but to think your views are holier than
>>> thou is always wrong.
>>
>> It's not much different in essence from the UK deciding to leave the EU.
>> Nationalism.
>
> Brexit, like the Ukraine war was avoidable. It took Major and Blair to
> go a step too far to welcome the East European states and give their
> populations free movement, in much the same way Zelensky went too far to
> threaten joining NATO and the EU.
>
>
Yawn. Delusion piled upon delusion

--
How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think.

Adolf Hitler

On 30/04/2022 19:23, John Rumm wrote:
> On 30/04/2022 15:16, Fredxx wrote:
>> On 30/04/2022 14:46, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>>> In article <t4jd4a$ae6$3@dont-email.me>,
>>>     Fredxx <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:
>>>>> Ukraine is not in and was not attempting to join NATO.
>>>
>>>> Before, and at the start of the war, Zelensky was making noises to join
>>>> NATO and the EU. Have you forgotten as well?
>>>
>>> And he was right, wasn't he? Putin would have thought long and hard
>>> before
>>> invading a NATO country.
>>
>> No, he lost the moment years ago, and the threat of joining NATO was
>> the excuse Putin wanted for his invasion.
>>
>> But you're right in one sense, Putin wouldn't have invaded Ukraine if
>> they had joined, what Russia sees as the US-NATO alliance. But Putin
>> was smart enough not to wait for this and to invade first.
>
> Which he did in 2014. Once there was a disputed occupation in place, it
> made joining NATO pretty much impossible.

Crimea, given its close links to Russia and a military base was always
going to be lost to Russia.

As you suggest an issue may have been the continuing conflict in the
other eastern areas of Ukraine bordering Russia.

>> Putin enjoys quite a bit of support in Russia. This war will simply
>> take as long as it takes. At the end of the day Ukraine will be
>> decimated, all for the want of joining NATO and the EU.
>
> Their wants or desires probably don't come into it. Those are just
> things that putin can claim as a justification for his actions. The
> reality is he wants the land and to grow a new soviet empire. He does
> not believe that Ukraine should even exist as a nation state. If he
> could wipe the population from the face of the earth into the process, I
> am sure he would think of that as a bonus.

He will feel the he needs the support of the Russian people. Therefore
he has to provide plausible 'excuses' to cover his actions.

I think he will settle for the flattening of Ukraine and in a year or
two will give up with the western side and consolidate the gains made.

For me, it demonstrates the lack of Russian military might, and I never
realised that Russia had a population of just 150m. I thought, perhaps
given the land mass, it had a much larger population. Nevertheless, it
has utterly failed to make substantial into a country with a population
of just 40m.

With a population of just 150m, and given the military might of the
Western world, one can understand Russia's paranoia towards the west and
NATO.

On 01/05/2022 01:23, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 29/04/2022 20:28, Fredxx wrote:
>> On 29/04/2022 18:19, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 29/04/2022 18:14, Fredxx wrote:
>>>> On 29/04/2022 15:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>> On 29/04/2022 10:08, Fredxx wrote:
>>>>>> On 29/04/2022 03:38, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>>> On 28/04/2022 21:16, Fredxx wrote:
>>>>>>>> Quite, some of the anti-vaxxers beliefs are made on facts or
>>>>>>>> pseudo facts. That can hardly be said about religion which are
>>>>>>>> based on blind belief and a selfish wish to live forever.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Some even despise conscience and say however shitty you've been
>>>>>>>> to fellow man, you're forgiven.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is unusual to finjd someone so ignorant about everything as you.
>>>>>>> I almost admire it
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For someone who is in denial that Zelensky had agreed to stay out
>>>>>> of NATO, it is not me who is ignorant.
>>>>>
>>>>> Try NOT lying.
>>>>
>>>> Did he say that or not?
>>> if I say I agree to do something something it doesn't mean I actually
>>> agree to do it. Christ you are so naive.
>>
>> You were the one backing Wodney, and his claim that "Zelensky had
>> agreed to stay out of NATO" was BS.
>>
>
> I wasnt. I merely pointed out the distinction between saying something
> and doing it.

Quite, so you were Rodney's lackey. We all know about unfulfilled
promises. But an undertaking not to joint NATO is just that.

> You filled the rest in in your warped mind

You were the one who chooses to distort the truth and call Zalensky's
offer staying out of NATO to be a lie.

>>> Comes from all that believing in the guardian I guess.
>>
>> Or the Daily Mail and lots of other news outlets.
>>
>>>>
>>>>>> If you're the type to have unjustified beliefs in being a climate
>>>>>> denier, then I can understand why you would believe in some
>>>>>> mythical deity.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If you're the type to have unjustified beliefs in being a climate
>>>>> denier, then I can understand why you would believe in some
>>>>> mythical deity.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not the one who feels the need to justify some mythical deity.
>>>>
>>> But you are. Climate change.
>>
>> I am what? I have no need to justify anything.
>
> For someone who spends hours on line doing just that, it is clear they
> you are totally delusional...

Hours, in your dreams. Perhaps I can read, take things in and write many
times faster than you. Don't judge others by the lack of your own skills.

On Sun, 01 May 2022 10:30:34 +1000, Fredxx <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:

> On 30/04/2022 19:23, John Rumm wrote:
>> On 30/04/2022 15:16, Fredxx wrote:
>>> On 30/04/2022 14:46, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>>>> In article <t4jd4a$ae6$3@dont-email.me>,
>>>> Fredxx <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> Ukraine is not in and was not attempting to join NATO.
>>>>
>>>>> Before, and at the start of the war, Zelensky was making noises to
>>>>> join
>>>>> NATO and the EU. Have you forgotten as well?
>>>>
>>>> And he was right, wasn't he? Putin would have thought long and hard
>>>> before
>>>> invading a NATO country.
>>>
>>> No, he lost the moment years ago, and the threat of joining NATO was
>>> the excuse Putin wanted for his invasion.
>>>
>>> But you're right in one sense, Putin wouldn't have invaded Ukraine if
>>> they had joined, what Russia sees as the US-NATO alliance. But Putin
>>> was smart enough not to wait for this and to invade first.
>> Which he did in 2014. Once there was a disputed occupation in place,
>> it made joining NATO pretty much impossible.
>
> Crimea, given its close links to Russia and a military base was always
> going to be lost to Russia.
>
> As you suggest an issue may have been the continuing conflict in the
> other eastern areas of Ukraine bordering Russia.
>
>>> Putin enjoys quite a bit of support in Russia. This war will simply
>>> take as long as it takes. At the end of the day Ukraine will be
>>> decimated, all for the want of joining NATO and the EU.
>> Their wants or desires probably don't come into it. Those are just
>> things that putin can claim as a justification for his actions. The
>> reality is he wants the land and to grow a new soviet empire. He does
>> not believe that Ukraine should even exist as a nation state. If he
>> could wipe the population from the face of the earth into the process,
>> I am sure he would think of that as a bonus.
>
> He will feel the he needs the support of the Russian people. Therefore
> he has to provide plausible 'excuses' to cover his actions.
>
> I think he will settle for the flattening of Ukraine and in a year or
> two will give up with the western side and consolidate the gains made.
>
> For me, it demonstrates the lack of Russian military might, and I never
> realised that Russia had a population of just 150m. I thought, perhaps
> given the land mass, it had a much larger population. Nevertheless, it
> has utterly failed to make substantial into a country with a population
> of just 40m.
>
> With a population of just 150m, and given the military might of the
> Western world, one can understand Russia's paranoia towards the west and
> NATO.

Particularly given the history of western invasion and the immense death
toll that produced.